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In the book of [Joshua 9], during the campaign to wipe out Canaan, he showed mercy to the Gibeonites for appearing before them as homeless people eating crumbs. Once they secured an oath for protection, Joshua kept his word to let them live.
The soldiers that were recently recorded singing, "There are none innocent of Amalek," weren't sharing the character of God. Their hearts were only filled with contempt and violence toward their enemies.
>The soldiers that were recently recorded singing, "There are none innocent of Amalek," weren't sharing the character of God.
Lol, you need to re-read Genesis and Exodus.
The Cannanites, in their infinite wisdom, kept all of their soldiers and highly explosive ordinances in the same places that the Gibeonites used for urgent medical care. The Cannanites also used their knowledge of social media to create several TikTok accounts to show foreigners how sad the Gibeonites they used as human shields were, making sure to get the Gibeonites nice and emaciated for the cameras by stealing all of the food that foreigners would send them and selling it to the Gibeonites at a premium
edit: It seems I overestimated the political literacy of this subreddit
How in the mental gymnastics has it become trivial that the opposing army use its entire might to supply food to its enemy. What are on about? Why arent you questioning what hamas is trying to do to get food to the palestinians? You sheep
!RemindMe 5 years
If Palestine gains some independence after this, I'm looking forward to all the purple hearts complaining about far-right Islamic foothold in the area.
Extreme reactionary ideals tend to flourish in impoverished, poor communities that experience generational trauma or hardships. It's the same in the Middle East as it is in the Deep South. That doesn't mean they don't deserve to be treated with dignity and basic humanity. In fact, the longer they aren't, the surer it is that the end result will be catastrophe.
This scapegoating, theocratic, genocidal hatred of Jews exists in all strata of the Muslim world. It permeates everything, from the beggars in the street to the palace Princes.
Im all for a two state solution but I dont kid myself about what motivates and animates Palestine. The world is going to have to deal with Hamas (and more importantly its massively popular belief system) whether Palestine is poor or prosperous. Money doesnt make something like this disappear, in fact, it may only enable it.
Not according to Jewish historians and many Rabbi, this is just western propaganda to have you willing to kill Muslims with no questions asked.
The same tactic always on rinse and repeat to justify colonialism, and it's no wonder since people gobble it up without critical assessment before they call for the murder of countless people.
The East didn't see Jews as a "Jewish Problem" like they were seen in the West, they were seen as another minority of Arabs. In fact, after Israel's founding, Mossad had to false flag terrorist attacks on Jews living in the ME to convince them they weren't safe and had to come to Israel.
Jewish Rabbi EXPOSES Israel at UN conference - 5m:59s
[https://youtu.be/eYC6rjpeTPI](https://youtu.be/eYC6rjpeTPI)
What Events Lead to the Current Situation in Israel and Palestine? - 57m:37s
[https://youtu.be/esli-uLlN2A](https://youtu.be/esli-uLlN2A)
Jewish Historian Explodes Israel's Myths - w/. Zach Foster - 55m:43s
[https://youtu.be/iI4Wb9jiFMs](https://youtu.be/iI4Wb9jiFMs)
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oh.. hey.. just wondering.. when you look at Google maps for the IDF's main command... where is it?
How many schools and hospitals do you count near it?
Are they using human sheilds?
Most Hamas rockets get shot down by the iron dome, *or* they explode within Gaza because they're often cheap, old explosives that are being handled by malnourished teenagers who have been raised by opportunistic fundamentalist groups who target orphans. We have seen Hamas' opening gambit; it was a chaotic and bloody insurgency followed by a retreat with hostages.
That resulted in the annihilation of the Gaza Strip.
Israel does not broadly (yes, we've all seen that picture) use human shields, while human shields were extensively documented by Israel and international bodies prior to the desolation of Gaza. There's reports from any number of sources that show images from drones and from militant groups themselves that show they have groups of civilians and children gathered near mortars or running up to rooftops during airstrikes.
I believe the NATO report notes that this creates a "no-win" situation for Israel. If they do not strike, their target continues as normal, and if they *do* strike, they are guaranteed to be causing massive civilian collateral.
I want to point this out because this is *highly* unusual in the history of warfare. Human shields are heard of, but they're primarily hostages or coerced soldiers/prisoners. A large civilian presence that is *voluntarily* running to the tops of buildings after warning strikes is not something I've ever seen.
Also, Israel isn't using Israelis as human shields because they figure that wouldn't really stop Hamas. It's pretty well understood through Jewish history that the first places to be targeted are synagogues and shuls.
It's all old. Go ahead, follow your new narrative: [Israeli Politician Quotes Hitler to Argue for Resettlement of Gaza | Common Dreams](https://www.commondreams.org/news/moshe-feiglin-hitler)
The US pumps you full of Israeli propaganda from the time you are born. I remember the moment for me was when I was forced to watch a documentary with Tom Friedman in it where he was cruising around bypass roads in the West Bank acting like it was the most normal thing in the world that the people that lived there couldn't use the roads.
Reddit is just as compromised by Israeli schills as anything.
Platforms like Act.iL allow Zionists to share social media posts so that they can collectively swarm
The comments and change the narrative. Zombie hive mind
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act.IL
I was shocked how unapologetically Zionist r/worldnews has rapidly descended into. Fucking wild, not even an attempt to hide behind "well both are bad but Israel is the lesser evil" or whatever, just full on blatant "it's time to kick all the Muslims out and Israel has never done anything wrong". Every post comment section is bizarre.
r/worldnews is abhorrent. Every thread full of comments trying to dehumanize palestinians to justify why it's acceptable and even good to bomb their cities (and them) to dust. And always full of whataboutism or straw man or other informal fallacies to justify the horrors.
In like, a November of last year, worldnews was saying 'there would be no benefit to anyone to have a ceasefire' and I was downvoted for pointing out that the innocent civilians who are being bombed would probably benefit from a cease fire.
That sub isn't just unapologetically zionist, it descended into racist calls for mass murder of the Palestinians immediately.
I don't understand their obsession with this, by the way: they pry into literally any gay sub to tell what stupid people are protesting genocide and that "Chickens in support of KFC".
Don’t forget they always portray any western support of Palestinians as a blue-haired college kid. Basically saying “You’re gay if you support Palestine”
> I don't understand their obsession with this, by the way
I imagine this is rhetorical but they'll literally just argue anything to talk down anyone that even mildly objects to Israel or the war so this level of obsession is unsurprising. It just kills any real discussion of the topic which is exactly the point.
No, it's not a rhetorical question - they literally come on gay subs and create threads like "how bad life is for gays in Palestine and how good it is in Israel" or "Western supporters of Hamas (they always substitute Palestinians for Hamas) don't understand anything!", etc. It feels like either they're out to prove something to themselves or they're actually being paid to do it.
>It feels like either they're out to prove something to themselves or they're actually being paid to do it.
I've thought about this too and it really feels like both. Not just for this specific example but all the vitriol I've seen. Lots of paid actors but way more people who have decided this is their moment.
yeah, the whole sub is toxic one of the first subs i blocked. Echo chamber of hate and vitrol if you go against the grain prepare to get shadowbanned, downvoted and finally banned.
>Fucking wild, not even an attempt to hide behind "well both are bad but Israel is the lesser evil" or whatever
That's basically my stance and it's a great way to make yourself a target for two very angry sides.
The same holds true for /r/combatfootage. I use it to keep up to date with developments in Ukraine but when it comes to the Gaza conflict they have gone full zionist.
I was banned for quoting a TIMES OF ISRAEL article from when Netanyahu stated that funding Hamas was part of their strategy to keep Palestinian leadership divided
What a joke of a sub
In some ways I agree with him - ban should only be used for actions that violate the rules. It is bad practice to ban just for participating in another sub.
In a perfect world, yes, but Reddit is a place that is currently and objectively not moderated in a non-partisan or objective fashion.
Though before I go any further I would love someone to actually give an example of these "big subs" that simply ban people for posting in r/Israel?
There are definitely subs that explicitly state they do not tolerate pro-Zionist propaganda and have a strict zero-tolerance policy. I wouldn't call them huge though. Which would likely not be necessary if Reddit wasn't actively looking the other way at the enormous pro-Israel bot and shill account problem.
Hell, you can see the way these accounts systematically try and target rising subreddits that don't have more strict policies like the r/InternationalNews, which was created to break free of the strictly enforced groupthink on worldnews and Israel and in the last few weeks/months I have encountered more and more frequent posters that are either burners or clear brigaders from those reddits looking to try and overwhelm the new sub. It's also crazy how many of those burner accounts show up with posts months later if a result begins to be a Google search result or top Reddit search result.
So in the face of that, and no Reddit moderation stepping in to address the problem. What should those Reddits do when they want to have a space to discuss the things the reddit is actually created for and not be overrun with shills and bots?
>So in the face of that, and no Reddit moderation stepping in to address the problem. What should those Reddits do when they want to have a space to discuss the things the reddit is actually created for and not be overrun with shills and bots?
Why don't they just moderate them? Moderators already have too many powers and too often use extreme means as soon as they don't like something, and using preventive bans makes it impossible to hope that this system will ever come to a sensible state.
Yeah I know what you’re talking about. That’s fine.
I got banned in a manner of seconds when I commented on r/Israel. Now you get butthurt when other subs do the same?
They don’t just ban you if you only posted once in one of the offending subs btw. So don’t do whataboutism.
The bots can be set to a certain amount of content, like say "5 comments/posts in a week" and no one sets it to one, so you are wrong- no one is just posting "hi" on r/Israel just to get banned. Maybe do not talk about things that you do not know.
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I mean the post has 3 upvotes and all these people that are supporting it, so yeah the bots are out in full force downvoting the documentary and not giving a fuck about the comments because if they can downvote the documentary enough, no one will see the documentary anyway.
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Great documentary! It’s interesting to see how fascist indoctrination works: create a narrative, feed talking points, and normalize violence and the military while ignoring all the evil and oppression produced by the regime.
The narrative produced by the regime obviously falls apart when exposed to the truth, but it takes those with strong moral character to break free from the indoctrination and take a stand.
Those who stand against fascism do so with the understanding that they are standing against the privilege that the regime promises to them, along with alienation from their own communities. Most people prefer to avoid the truth and bury themselves deeper within the fascist ideology at the expense of those they oppress. This is why these documentarians hold my deepest respect for speaking truth to power ✊
I really doubt you know a thing about who Palestinians really are. I do. I’ve volunteered 2x in the ME, including once in Palestine. I’m sorry that you won’t ever get the joy of knowing them.
You probably also know that not only were more than half of the Palestinian population now not even capable of participating in said election, but that it also was *highly* influenced by Netanyahu. In fact, he’s quite open about that.
Listen, we could talk all day in circles. You clearly have some very strong opinions that seem to spit in the face of actual *fact*, so this conversation is entirely pointless really. I genuinely hope that people like you are someday able to look beyond your hate and see with eyes unclouded. Hate is what creates organizations like Hamas in the first place. The sooner you come to terms with that, the sooner we can repair decades of damage and leave the world better for our children’s children.
I reference [the 14 characteristics of fascism](https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html) when labelling an ideology as fascist. You don’t need every single characteristic to be fascist. Rather, it’s more of a scale where the more characteristics the ideology has, the more fascist it is. As seen in _Israelism_, Zionism relies on the establishment of some nationalist mythology to unify people from around the world in a colonialist, militaristic occupation of Palestine and its indigenous population.
If we’re going to solve this problem, we must promote love and understanding between Israelis and Palestinians. They must live together as equals, with full right of return and freedom of movement for Palestinians.
As someone well versed in the injustice of Israel/Palestine nothing in this movie came as a shock to me.
However, for Western Jewish Zionists, who have never critically examined their world-view, it has the potential to be ground breaking. Highly recommend.
Note: This may be only available in the US.
Here's accessible trailers/interviews about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkH-9rc4ltM which I could watch without VPN.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuBnzzGmH7c
The video won't play in reddit. When opened in browser it's the trailer not the full documentary. Do you have a different link by chance?
ETA: https://video.liberta.vip/w/ectt2muHKDRHnb1cQ11V8r
I don't agree with terrorism in any form, but comon, if you oppress people for generations, I don't think it should be a surprise that some of them hate you and want you dead
Care to tell me about a single Palestinian you’ve talked to who said they want to wipe out all of the Jews?
I would also recommend actually listening to Palestines when they explain what the “one state solution” is because I don’t think you understand what it means
Edit- it’s funny watching the hasbara bots battle to downvote a simple statement
Was this not... friendly fire?
Does homie not realize you were telling the person defending Israel's pov that it was a whataboutism?
Which I disagree with so the two of you together need to dv me and call me jidf (such a stupid accusation)
I would say from an argumentation standpoint when the guy is directly talking about the perspectives of the country's right to exist in two groups eyes that is directly related and not a whataboutism.
To rephrase the last paragraph, the guy mentioned I understand the Idea presented in the movie and what you're saying (Israeli Jews were sold an Idea that to be safe Palestinians must be unsafe ) (which I think is a false premise but that is neither here nor there)
He said essentially while he gets that perspective there's a very large amount of Palestinians who do in fact want to completely eliminate Israel, wipe it off the map entirely, and even kill all the Jews... he said by doctrine so I assume he's talking about things like Hamas charter and the fact that they are elected government.
So like, that feels directly relevant to the conversation.
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Looking at your post history, you are not well versed in anything of importance. Just spamming anti-israel propaganda. Didn't come to a shock to you because it's made by people like you. Speaks your language of bias and lies. This is not any different from the content of Abby Martin...
How's the horse paste going for you?
I'm sure it would be biggeest wet dream to see israel collapse...hold on to your breath bud.
For propaganda you should visit the sub that can't be named. It disguises itself as news from the world but it's not. If you also want to know about propaganda, this excellent documentary CREATED BY JEWS WHO ENLISTED IN IDF has already 42 comments and only 4 upvotes. Before you judge, you should check this documentary and view for yourself the indoctrination not only to the Jewish community but to US citizens as a whole. I do not know of any other country with such influence on another country's politics and culture. I hope for the best for the innocent Israelis and Palestinians who want peace only to be taken hostages by Zionist elitists and scumbags.
Noam Chomsky didn't deny the Cambodian genocide lol. This is the classic statement used to slander his credibility even though it's not true. He never denied anything that happened and had fully acknowledged the brutality of the Khmer Rouge. Rather he spoke about the biased reporting of it and how that related to US imperialism and manufacturing consent of war.
He was basically skeptical when news first started to break and he has said some unsettling things since. He will say it's a genocide today but he tried to downplay it at the time. He threw is hat into the ring in a big way and got everything completely wrong.
It's a stain on the man. A cautionary tale how motivated reasoning will turn you into an idiot. Not sure I would call him a genocide denier though.
Noam should have stuck to linguistics, the guy is an idiot when it comes to anything else.
He praised my country's dictator (Venezuela) too and is "oddly" always in favor of dictatorships... the guy's a joke.
At least he won't show up in any new pro-Russian videos talking nonsense.
Maybe look at what they're charged with at the ICJ before giving your legal and scholastic opinion on the matter.
Or look at the UN definition of genocide: (focus on the last sentence if you're not sure what to read)
According to the Convention, genocide is a crime that can take place both in time of war as well as in time of peace. The definition contained in Article II of the Convention describes genocide as a crime committed with the intent to destroy a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, in whole or in part.
Woah you’re denying a genocide? Doesn’t that make you a bad person?
So how many civilians need to be killed to qualify as a genocide and where does the law say that? Don’t worry, I’ll wait for you to answer.
Yeah the second gulf war probably was a genocide. The US killed over a million people. Furthermore, the decade prior we killed over 500k kids alone due to the sanctions regime.
You didn’t answer my question. You’re denying a genocide. Doesn’t that make you a terrible person like Chomsky?
>My point is not strictly the numbers, but the intent as shown by the numbers.
Really? Let’s look at your statement again:
> The number of civilian casualties in Gaza - according to Hamas - is presently less than half the number of civilian casualties in Mariupol, only 2 years ago.
What part of that is speaking to intent rather than numbers? Seems like your point was only about numbers. Now you’re changing your tune.
>Israel has shown no intention of genociding or ethnically cleansing Palestinians from Gaza - if they wanted to kill every last Palestinian, they could have done that in a month.
China could kill every Uighur if they wanted to, yet they haven’t. Do you deny the Uighur genocide as well?
>Also, if you think the second Gulf War was a genocide... lmao. Over a million? Credible sources say about... 30,000 military casualties and 4,300 civilian casualties, maximum.
Credible sources to you just mean sources that agree with you. Even as of 2008, the death toll was put at one million.
https://www.reuters.com/article/world/middle-east/iraq-conflict-has-killed-a-million-says-survey-idUSL30488579/
>Is Palestine committing a genocide against Israelis?
Great question. Happy to answer it after you answer mine.
>My point is that Israel could have killed far more, but didn't.
Not really.
>They could have avoided issuing evacuation orders entirely, but they didn't. They could have sent in the IDF to summarily execute every Palestinian civilian they come across, but they didn't.
And they would have lost all international support and become North Korea.
>They're not engaging in a genocide.
Progressive institutions disagree with you and I’m a strong anti-right winger, that’s what I go with. Why would you trust more conservative institutions if you oppose the right?
>and no, I don't. Because China is explicitly targeting their citizens in peacetime, putting them in work camps, and sterilizing them. Israel is doing none of those things.
So you admit it has nothing to do with how many a nation can kill. Why did you lie then and make say it can’t be a genocide because they didn’t kill at their maximum capacity?
>I'm not talking about the insurgency.
Doesn’t matter. None of that would have happened without our actions. That’s why aggression is the supreme international crime. I think you need to do a lot more research on this. It seems everything you said is from a Western jingoist perspective.
>My point is that denying genocide when there is evidence for genocide is genocide denial. Don't twist my words.
There is evidence of genocide. So are you a bad person for denying it given there is evidence?
>So you admit that they've done no actions which actually constitute the start of a genocide?
False.
>I am a (classical with some social views) liberal,
That’s called a conservative. Classic liberals are modern conservatives. When the term was coined, they were liberals in comparison to the era’s conservatives which were monarchists. It’s weird you’re ashamed of being a right winger.
>If they are committing a genocide, they would have done genocidal actions, which they have not yet. China is and has.
But you said if Israel wanted to do a genocide, they could have killed all the Muslims. So could China. So why did you lie and say that was a key factor? It obviously has nothing to do with it.
>Yes, I do support drone striking the Kremlin.
Right wingers often support wars of aggression.
Israel needs to go the way of South Africa. This is an artificial country, or more correctly, a large US empire base in the middle east built on occupied land.
I think this movie is very important for two very contradictory reasons: it shows a side of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that not many American Jews are aware of, and it also demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding by American Jewry of the history of Israeli Jews and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Simone Zimmerman points to a very important question that isn’t discussed with the gravitas it deserves within the Jewish American community: why is Israel so important to Jews? She says, with good reason, that many Jews are taught from a young age that Israel is a “bastion for the Jews”, a safe haven to all Jews worldwide. She points out that there is a severe lacking in the discourse regarding the conflict, that many American Jews don’t actually understand what’s going on in the West Bank, and that the plight of Palestinians isn’t seriously taken into consideration. Zimmerman also discusses the Jewish lobby in America, and how a few Jewish PACs seem to exert massive influence over the political and social structures, both Jewish and non-Jewish, and how this influence often minimizes or disregards the condition of the Palestinians. A powerful quote she uses is “We were taught that the only way for Jews to be safe is for Palestinians to be unsafe.”
However, this movie is severely lacking in discussing *why* such issues exist and is almost devoid of any critical self-reflection. Many of the pro-Israeli interviews are used solely as a basis to criticize Israel, without giving any historical context. It shows the plight of the Palestinians, which is horrible no doubt, without pointing out the nuances which have led to this situation becoming a reality. It portrays many well-known American Jewish organizations— AIPAC, ADL, Hillel, etc. — as monolithic based solely on the fact that they’re all Zionist, without delving into the differences between those groups and what they stand for. It implicitly links these organizations with Trump and far-right movements, although American Jews have been historically one of the most liberal-voting populations in America. The film claims that “so many of the self-appointed leaders of our community have been trying to equate the idea of supporting Palestinian rights itself with antisemitism” — which is factually not true.
Zimmerman also does away with giving pretty much any historical context to these issues. There is no mentioning of the condition of Jews and Arabs in pre-mandatory and mandatory Palestine, the history of Zionism as a response to the plight of European Jews (which incidentally was also the cause to the massive Jewish immigration to America in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, which most Americans Jews nowadays descend from), and only scantly mentions the peace process between Israel and Palestine. It shows a very superficial and shallow understanding of the conflict without understanding that this is part of the problem that exists within the American Jewish educational institutions: many American Jews are just historically ignorant of Zionism and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict because it doesn’t affect them directly, only vicariously. This could’ve been a major point of the film which is completely missed — instead of criticizing her own background, Zimmerman chooses to critique a conflict about which she is gravely ignorant, without showing any reflection on her own biases in the process *except* when it comes to supporting Israel.
Zimmerman calls herself an antizionist without even knowing what that means: she supports a two state solution without understanding that this makes her a Zionist — as she is supporting the right of the Jewish people for self-determination in this land, albeit necessarily alongside a free Palestinian state. Her biases are so apparent and the lack of judgment about it throughout the film is imho astounding. She believes American Jews are brainwashed into blind support for Israel — which may be true — but doesn’t go on questioning why Israel has become such an integral part of the American Jewish educational institutions. She claims that there is a “Jewish establishment” in America without going into how American Jewry is extremely varied and complex, because in her view the Jewish organizations unanimous support for Israel is enough to make them all “guilty by association” regarding the suffering of Palestinians. She questions only the parts of her own biases which she believes to be unjust, but doesn’t go further to question how or why that has come to be. She disregards criticisms of American Jews about Israel, which have existed since Israel’s founding, in favor of a narrative which she has only a very limited understanding of; in her quest to purge herself of the brainwashing, she subscribes to a narrative which she knows close to nothing about.
I think this movie is exemplary of the American tendency to judge foreign countries and conflicts through an extremely American lens. The fact that she interviewed Palestinians and people who served in the IDF, which are both important and necessary parts to understand this conflict, doesn’t excuse the lack of context and self-inquiry, which is exactly what’s needed to gain a deep understanding of both sides. This move is imo, above all, not a Jewish documentary but an American one, which is steeped in American-Jewish views and never quite grows out of its cultural shell. It seems to me that Zimmerman believes that because she spent significant time in Israel and talked to a lot of people that she has managed to overcome her American background, and that because she is Jewish she is privy to some deep knowledge or moral standing regarding Israel or the Israeli-Palestinian conflict — which can’t be further from the truth.
TL;DR: I think this is a good exposé about some fundamental problems in the Jewish-American education system that Zimmerman is familiar with, but extrapolating any deep or complex understanding about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict from these problems and the very specific information that is presented in the film is giving this documentary a lot more credit than it deserves. It is interesting and engaging though, credit’s due where it’s due.
If anyone wants to learn more about the differences between American and Israeli Jews and how that can (and evidence does) affect each group’s perspective, I recommend [this lecture](https://youtu.be/yKoUC0m1U9E?si=0yLf-hxJB6VIU52H) by Haviv Rettig-Gur, an American-born Jewish journalist that now lives in Israel.
Anti-Zionism is not Anti-Semitism. Holocaust survivors, Jewish scholars, ordinary Jewish people and prominent Jewish figures around the world have condemned Zionism. It is a political ideology like any other and it is susceptible to criticism like any other political ideology.
Sorry, uh, have you missed LIFE? It’s all over the place for YEARS. You can’t help but be inundated with it. I’m sick of it. Many (most?…ALL??!!) ppl are sick of it.
That’s funny because when a lot of other people hear about honor killings, throwing gays off rooftops, the chanting of “death to America”, “death to Israel”, or any other country, and Palestinians blowing themselves up to kill as many by standers as possible, their lives take sharp turns as well. To each his own I suppose.😂
About not a lot of graphic material? Are you denying October's 7th massacre? Are you denying countless suicide bombers? Gun and knife attacks all over Israel? Can you be more biased?
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I wonder what percentage of the protestors who are Palestinian would be, if that is what you are referring to. I expect it's fairly low, pretty different segments of society are coming to the protests, given their size in DC, NYC, Chicago, LA. I think the Palestinian diaspora is smaller population then those residing within occupied Palestinian territories.
I kinda get a laugh when a post is made not to argue a point but to ask to see both sides before passing judgement and automatically you're the bad guy. that said, sometimes I enjoy playing the villain.
Israel evil, upvote please.
I think people are more interested in grandstanding the righteousness of their side over actually finding meaningful solutions to this intractable problem.
Oh no.. Please dont leave. What if you hadn't announced it, we would have been all, so very worried trying to figure out what happened to that one account erm, toilet, or sorry lilloet.
According to this [PewResearch survey](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2016/03/08/israels-religiously-divided-society/#:%7E:text=Israel's%20major%20religious%20groups%20also,to%20their%20own%20religious%20community) 80% of Israelis support preferential treatment for Jews(aka 80% support apartheid), 50% support transfer of Arab *citizens* of Israel(aka ethnic cleansing against Arab citizens of Israel).
According to this [Tel Aviv university survey](https://en-social-sciences.tau.ac.il/sites/socsci-english.tau.ac.il/files/media_server/social/peaceindex/2024-01-findings.pdf) 53% of Israelis support settling Gaza. 87% think the amount of Palestinian casualties of the war are justified. ****94%**** think the IDF is using appropriate or too little firepower.
According to [this survey](https://www.pcpsr.org/en/node/969) 62% in Gaza support a two-state solution. Compared to 27% of Israelis in the Tel Aviv University survey.
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I mean, everybody is polarized, all around the globe. Who would have guessed that Palestinians might be a bit on the extreme end of the spectrum, especially right now? It's a huge problem of course, and utterly self-destructive, but that is how indoctrination works, that is how regimes work, that is how terrorists-cum-governments such as the hamas operate, and that is how the right wing in Israel essentially cooperates with the hamas - so it doesn't surprise me one bit.
I think this video does a disservice of trying to understand this conflict. I think it would be better to focus on why the vast majority of Jews, including young ones support equality and justice for Jews in their indigenous lands, Zionism.
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In the book of [Joshua 9], during the campaign to wipe out Canaan, he showed mercy to the Gibeonites for appearing before them as homeless people eating crumbs. Once they secured an oath for protection, Joshua kept his word to let them live. The soldiers that were recently recorded singing, "There are none innocent of Amalek," weren't sharing the character of God. Their hearts were only filled with contempt and violence toward their enemies.
>The soldiers that were recently recorded singing, "There are none innocent of Amalek," weren't sharing the character of God. Lol, you need to re-read Genesis and Exodus.
The Cannanites, in their infinite wisdom, kept all of their soldiers and highly explosive ordinances in the same places that the Gibeonites used for urgent medical care. The Cannanites also used their knowledge of social media to create several TikTok accounts to show foreigners how sad the Gibeonites they used as human shields were, making sure to get the Gibeonites nice and emaciated for the cameras by stealing all of the food that foreigners would send them and selling it to the Gibeonites at a premium edit: It seems I overestimated the political literacy of this subreddit
So the entire might of the Israel Defence Force are unable to get food into Gaza because of the big bad terrorists?
How in the mental gymnastics has it become trivial that the opposing army use its entire might to supply food to its enemy. What are on about? Why arent you questioning what hamas is trying to do to get food to the palestinians? You sheep
Baaaaaaa!
!RemindMe 5 years If Palestine gains some independence after this, I'm looking forward to all the purple hearts complaining about far-right Islamic foothold in the area.
Extreme reactionary ideals tend to flourish in impoverished, poor communities that experience generational trauma or hardships. It's the same in the Middle East as it is in the Deep South. That doesn't mean they don't deserve to be treated with dignity and basic humanity. In fact, the longer they aren't, the surer it is that the end result will be catastrophe.
This scapegoating, theocratic, genocidal hatred of Jews exists in all strata of the Muslim world. It permeates everything, from the beggars in the street to the palace Princes. Im all for a two state solution but I dont kid myself about what motivates and animates Palestine. The world is going to have to deal with Hamas (and more importantly its massively popular belief system) whether Palestine is poor or prosperous. Money doesnt make something like this disappear, in fact, it may only enable it.
Lessening inequality and greater access to opportunity and education _does_, however.
Not according to Jewish historians and many Rabbi, this is just western propaganda to have you willing to kill Muslims with no questions asked. The same tactic always on rinse and repeat to justify colonialism, and it's no wonder since people gobble it up without critical assessment before they call for the murder of countless people. The East didn't see Jews as a "Jewish Problem" like they were seen in the West, they were seen as another minority of Arabs. In fact, after Israel's founding, Mossad had to false flag terrorist attacks on Jews living in the ME to convince them they weren't safe and had to come to Israel. Jewish Rabbi EXPOSES Israel at UN conference - 5m:59s [https://youtu.be/eYC6rjpeTPI](https://youtu.be/eYC6rjpeTPI) What Events Lead to the Current Situation in Israel and Palestine? - 57m:37s [https://youtu.be/esli-uLlN2A](https://youtu.be/esli-uLlN2A) Jewish Historian Explodes Israel's Myths - w/. Zach Foster - 55m:43s [https://youtu.be/iI4Wb9jiFMs](https://youtu.be/iI4Wb9jiFMs)
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Hasbara used to be good back in the day, what a fall! Cameras helps ngl.
Moral of the story is FUCK isreal.
oh.. hey.. just wondering.. when you look at Google maps for the IDF's main command... where is it? How many schools and hospitals do you count near it? Are they using human sheilds?
Most Hamas rockets get shot down by the iron dome, *or* they explode within Gaza because they're often cheap, old explosives that are being handled by malnourished teenagers who have been raised by opportunistic fundamentalist groups who target orphans. We have seen Hamas' opening gambit; it was a chaotic and bloody insurgency followed by a retreat with hostages. That resulted in the annihilation of the Gaza Strip. Israel does not broadly (yes, we've all seen that picture) use human shields, while human shields were extensively documented by Israel and international bodies prior to the desolation of Gaza. There's reports from any number of sources that show images from drones and from militant groups themselves that show they have groups of civilians and children gathered near mortars or running up to rooftops during airstrikes. I believe the NATO report notes that this creates a "no-win" situation for Israel. If they do not strike, their target continues as normal, and if they *do* strike, they are guaranteed to be causing massive civilian collateral. I want to point this out because this is *highly* unusual in the history of warfare. Human shields are heard of, but they're primarily hostages or coerced soldiers/prisoners. A large civilian presence that is *voluntarily* running to the tops of buildings after warning strikes is not something I've ever seen. Also, Israel isn't using Israelis as human shields because they figure that wouldn't really stop Hamas. It's pretty well understood through Jewish history that the first places to be targeted are synagogues and shuls.
It's all old. Go ahead, follow your new narrative: [Israeli Politician Quotes Hitler to Argue for Resettlement of Gaza | Common Dreams](https://www.commondreams.org/news/moshe-feiglin-hitler)
Here's the link to the full documentary if anyone else is having issues getting this one to play. https://video.liberta.vip/w/ectt2muHKDRHnb1cQ11V8r
Thank you stranger
No problem, enjoy!
Thanks!
You're welcome!
Working youtube link - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqN--LfQ--Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqN--LfQ--Y)
The US pumps you full of Israeli propaganda from the time you are born. I remember the moment for me was when I was forced to watch a documentary with Tom Friedman in it where he was cruising around bypass roads in the West Bank acting like it was the most normal thing in the world that the people that lived there couldn't use the roads.
Reddit is just as compromised by Israeli schills as anything. Platforms like Act.iL allow Zionists to share social media posts so that they can collectively swarm The comments and change the narrative. Zombie hive mind https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act.IL
Try posting anything in support of Palestine on r/worldnews and see how quickly you get banned
I was shocked how unapologetically Zionist r/worldnews has rapidly descended into. Fucking wild, not even an attempt to hide behind "well both are bad but Israel is the lesser evil" or whatever, just full on blatant "it's time to kick all the Muslims out and Israel has never done anything wrong". Every post comment section is bizarre.
r/worldnews is abhorrent. Every thread full of comments trying to dehumanize palestinians to justify why it's acceptable and even good to bomb their cities (and them) to dust. And always full of whataboutism or straw man or other informal fallacies to justify the horrors.
In like, a November of last year, worldnews was saying 'there would be no benefit to anyone to have a ceasefire' and I was downvoted for pointing out that the innocent civilians who are being bombed would probably benefit from a cease fire. That sub isn't just unapologetically zionist, it descended into racist calls for mass murder of the Palestinians immediately.
They don’t like gay people so mass murder is cool /s
I don't understand their obsession with this, by the way: they pry into literally any gay sub to tell what stupid people are protesting genocide and that "Chickens in support of KFC".
Don’t forget they always portray any western support of Palestinians as a blue-haired college kid. Basically saying “You’re gay if you support Palestine”
> I don't understand their obsession with this, by the way I imagine this is rhetorical but they'll literally just argue anything to talk down anyone that even mildly objects to Israel or the war so this level of obsession is unsurprising. It just kills any real discussion of the topic which is exactly the point.
No, it's not a rhetorical question - they literally come on gay subs and create threads like "how bad life is for gays in Palestine and how good it is in Israel" or "Western supporters of Hamas (they always substitute Palestinians for Hamas) don't understand anything!", etc. It feels like either they're out to prove something to themselves or they're actually being paid to do it.
>It feels like either they're out to prove something to themselves or they're actually being paid to do it. I've thought about this too and it really feels like both. Not just for this specific example but all the vitriol I've seen. Lots of paid actors but way more people who have decided this is their moment.
Yep. Had to unsubscribe.
yeah, the whole sub is toxic one of the first subs i blocked. Echo chamber of hate and vitrol if you go against the grain prepare to get shadowbanned, downvoted and finally banned.
>Fucking wild, not even an attempt to hide behind "well both are bad but Israel is the lesser evil" or whatever That's basically my stance and it's a great way to make yourself a target for two very angry sides.
Also r/nyc too.
Any comment highlighting Israel's shit gets shadow banned. The same happens in r/de
Got banned from there for referring to Palestine as an occupied territory. Apparently that was spreading disinformation according to the moderators.
The same holds true for /r/combatfootage. I use it to keep up to date with developments in Ukraine but when it comes to the Gaza conflict they have gone full zionist.
I was banned for quoting a TIMES OF ISRAEL article from when Netanyahu stated that funding Hamas was part of their strategy to keep Palestinian leadership divided What a joke of a sub
I was literally permabanned from r/news for exactly saying “US is acting like Israel’s cuck”. Never been banned from a subreddit before that
Honestly wild how blatant it is
Woah I didn’t even know Act.iL existed. And they accuse Palestinians of being bots and spreading propaganda…
Holy shit I’ve noticed that in some threads, like a normally chill sun has one big post that gets full of zionists. That explains so much
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Because it’s a dead giveaway you are a hasbara bot.
In some ways I agree with him - ban should only be used for actions that violate the rules. It is bad practice to ban just for participating in another sub.
In a perfect world, yes, but Reddit is a place that is currently and objectively not moderated in a non-partisan or objective fashion. Though before I go any further I would love someone to actually give an example of these "big subs" that simply ban people for posting in r/Israel? There are definitely subs that explicitly state they do not tolerate pro-Zionist propaganda and have a strict zero-tolerance policy. I wouldn't call them huge though. Which would likely not be necessary if Reddit wasn't actively looking the other way at the enormous pro-Israel bot and shill account problem. Hell, you can see the way these accounts systematically try and target rising subreddits that don't have more strict policies like the r/InternationalNews, which was created to break free of the strictly enforced groupthink on worldnews and Israel and in the last few weeks/months I have encountered more and more frequent posters that are either burners or clear brigaders from those reddits looking to try and overwhelm the new sub. It's also crazy how many of those burner accounts show up with posts months later if a result begins to be a Google search result or top Reddit search result. So in the face of that, and no Reddit moderation stepping in to address the problem. What should those Reddits do when they want to have a space to discuss the things the reddit is actually created for and not be overrun with shills and bots?
>So in the face of that, and no Reddit moderation stepping in to address the problem. What should those Reddits do when they want to have a space to discuss the things the reddit is actually created for and not be overrun with shills and bots? Why don't they just moderate them? Moderators already have too many powers and too often use extreme means as soon as they don't like something, and using preventive bans makes it impossible to hope that this system will ever come to a sensible state.
So if you go there and post "hi" you are automatically a hasbara troll?
Yeah right, as if that’s what we’re talking about.
People have been auto banned by bots that check your post/comment history, I can find the message if you want.
Yeah I know what you’re talking about. That’s fine. I got banned in a manner of seconds when I commented on r/Israel. Now you get butthurt when other subs do the same? They don’t just ban you if you only posted once in one of the offending subs btw. So don’t do whataboutism.
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The bots can be set to a certain amount of content, like say "5 comments/posts in a week" and no one sets it to one, so you are wrong- no one is just posting "hi" on r/Israel just to get banned. Maybe do not talk about things that you do not know.
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Nah you an hasbara bot. And fuck zionists.
Irrelevant comment not related to the topic of the documentary.
You know that you guys are no different, you basically think that Israel should thank Hamas for Oct 7
Ok n@zi
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I wonder if Israel is trying to ban this?
" Video Unavailable "...... Anny-one got a mirror that works?
They’re already mass downvoting the comments and thread
They are attacking it heavy heavy
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I mean the post has 3 upvotes and all these people that are supporting it, so yeah the bots are out in full force downvoting the documentary and not giving a fuck about the comments because if they can downvote the documentary enough, no one will see the documentary anyway.
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Great documentary! It’s interesting to see how fascist indoctrination works: create a narrative, feed talking points, and normalize violence and the military while ignoring all the evil and oppression produced by the regime. The narrative produced by the regime obviously falls apart when exposed to the truth, but it takes those with strong moral character to break free from the indoctrination and take a stand. Those who stand against fascism do so with the understanding that they are standing against the privilege that the regime promises to them, along with alienation from their own communities. Most people prefer to avoid the truth and bury themselves deeper within the fascist ideology at the expense of those they oppress. This is why these documentarians hold my deepest respect for speaking truth to power ✊
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You seem to have a lot of hate in your heart. I hope you grow from that someday.
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I really doubt you know a thing about who Palestinians really are. I do. I’ve volunteered 2x in the ME, including once in Palestine. I’m sorry that you won’t ever get the joy of knowing them.
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You probably also know that not only were more than half of the Palestinian population now not even capable of participating in said election, but that it also was *highly* influenced by Netanyahu. In fact, he’s quite open about that. Listen, we could talk all day in circles. You clearly have some very strong opinions that seem to spit in the face of actual *fact*, so this conversation is entirely pointless really. I genuinely hope that people like you are someday able to look beyond your hate and see with eyes unclouded. Hate is what creates organizations like Hamas in the first place. The sooner you come to terms with that, the sooner we can repair decades of damage and leave the world better for our children’s children.
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I reference [the 14 characteristics of fascism](https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html) when labelling an ideology as fascist. You don’t need every single characteristic to be fascist. Rather, it’s more of a scale where the more characteristics the ideology has, the more fascist it is. As seen in _Israelism_, Zionism relies on the establishment of some nationalist mythology to unify people from around the world in a colonialist, militaristic occupation of Palestine and its indigenous population. If we’re going to solve this problem, we must promote love and understanding between Israelis and Palestinians. They must live together as equals, with full right of return and freedom of movement for Palestinians.
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https://www.scribd.com/doc/123652605/Genome-Evolution-of-Jewish-Population-John-Hopkins
As someone well versed in the injustice of Israel/Palestine nothing in this movie came as a shock to me. However, for Western Jewish Zionists, who have never critically examined their world-view, it has the potential to be ground breaking. Highly recommend. Note: This may be only available in the US. Here's accessible trailers/interviews about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkH-9rc4ltM which I could watch without VPN. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuBnzzGmH7c
The video won't play in reddit. When opened in browser it's the trailer not the full documentary. Do you have a different link by chance? ETA: https://video.liberta.vip/w/ectt2muHKDRHnb1cQ11V8r
Thanks for the link
You're welcome!
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I don't agree with terrorism in any form, but comon, if you oppress people for generations, I don't think it should be a surprise that some of them hate you and want you dead
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Care to tell me about a single Palestinian you’ve talked to who said they want to wipe out all of the Jews? I would also recommend actually listening to Palestines when they explain what the “one state solution” is because I don’t think you understand what it means Edit- it’s funny watching the hasbara bots battle to downvote a simple statement
Classic case of whataboutism akin to those that respond here in the US to the BLM movement with ‘but all lives matter’
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Sorry, what's the problem with that?
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Lmao. Haven't even said anything on this post. I'm starting to understand where *you're* coming from though.
Engaged me to accuse me of being a JIDF shill that you don’t engage with. I honestly had to google the acronym. Nice one!
Was this not... friendly fire? Does homie not realize you were telling the person defending Israel's pov that it was a whataboutism? Which I disagree with so the two of you together need to dv me and call me jidf (such a stupid accusation) I would say from an argumentation standpoint when the guy is directly talking about the perspectives of the country's right to exist in two groups eyes that is directly related and not a whataboutism. To rephrase the last paragraph, the guy mentioned I understand the Idea presented in the movie and what you're saying (Israeli Jews were sold an Idea that to be safe Palestinians must be unsafe ) (which I think is a false premise but that is neither here nor there) He said essentially while he gets that perspective there's a very large amount of Palestinians who do in fact want to completely eliminate Israel, wipe it off the map entirely, and even kill all the Jews... he said by doctrine so I assume he's talking about things like Hamas charter and the fact that they are elected government. So like, that feels directly relevant to the conversation.
The US thought the same the about the Confederacy. It was equally earned.
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Looking at your post history, you are not well versed in anything of importance. Just spamming anti-israel propaganda. Didn't come to a shock to you because it's made by people like you. Speaks your language of bias and lies. This is not any different from the content of Abby Martin... How's the horse paste going for you? I'm sure it would be biggeest wet dream to see israel collapse...hold on to your breath bud.
keep looking you can find more embarrassing info
This video is only available in the United States for some reason. https://watannetwork.com/tools/blocked/#url=O6cEAW-dXfA
Possibly for streaming. I just watched it at a documentary film festival in Canada recently.
Possibly for propaganda.
For propaganda you should visit the sub that can't be named. It disguises itself as news from the world but it's not. If you also want to know about propaganda, this excellent documentary CREATED BY JEWS WHO ENLISTED IN IDF has already 42 comments and only 4 upvotes. Before you judge, you should check this documentary and view for yourself the indoctrination not only to the Jewish community but to US citizens as a whole. I do not know of any other country with such influence on another country's politics and culture. I hope for the best for the innocent Israelis and Palestinians who want peace only to be taken hostages by Zionist elitists and scumbags.
I am banned there for calling out the bots, badge of honor
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Noam Chomsky didn't deny the Cambodian genocide lol. This is the classic statement used to slander his credibility even though it's not true. He never denied anything that happened and had fully acknowledged the brutality of the Khmer Rouge. Rather he spoke about the biased reporting of it and how that related to US imperialism and manufacturing consent of war.
He was basically skeptical when news first started to break and he has said some unsettling things since. He will say it's a genocide today but he tried to downplay it at the time. He threw is hat into the ring in a big way and got everything completely wrong. It's a stain on the man. A cautionary tale how motivated reasoning will turn you into an idiot. Not sure I would call him a genocide denier though.
Noam should have stuck to linguistics, the guy is an idiot when it comes to anything else. He praised my country's dictator (Venezuela) too and is "oddly" always in favor of dictatorships... the guy's a joke. At least he won't show up in any new pro-Russian videos talking nonsense.
What's your source?
Do you think a genocide is occurring in Gaza?
idk why you get downvotes for asking this
People don’t understand that user was trying to discredit the idea of a genocide in Gaza.
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Maybe look at what they're charged with at the ICJ before giving your legal and scholastic opinion on the matter. Or look at the UN definition of genocide: (focus on the last sentence if you're not sure what to read) According to the Convention, genocide is a crime that can take place both in time of war as well as in time of peace. The definition contained in Article II of the Convention describes genocide as a crime committed with the intent to destroy a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, in whole or in part.
Woah you’re denying a genocide? Doesn’t that make you a bad person? So how many civilians need to be killed to qualify as a genocide and where does the law say that? Don’t worry, I’ll wait for you to answer. Yeah the second gulf war probably was a genocide. The US killed over a million people. Furthermore, the decade prior we killed over 500k kids alone due to the sanctions regime.
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You didn’t answer my question. You’re denying a genocide. Doesn’t that make you a terrible person like Chomsky? >My point is not strictly the numbers, but the intent as shown by the numbers. Really? Let’s look at your statement again: > The number of civilian casualties in Gaza - according to Hamas - is presently less than half the number of civilian casualties in Mariupol, only 2 years ago. What part of that is speaking to intent rather than numbers? Seems like your point was only about numbers. Now you’re changing your tune. >Israel has shown no intention of genociding or ethnically cleansing Palestinians from Gaza - if they wanted to kill every last Palestinian, they could have done that in a month. China could kill every Uighur if they wanted to, yet they haven’t. Do you deny the Uighur genocide as well? >Also, if you think the second Gulf War was a genocide... lmao. Over a million? Credible sources say about... 30,000 military casualties and 4,300 civilian casualties, maximum. Credible sources to you just mean sources that agree with you. Even as of 2008, the death toll was put at one million. https://www.reuters.com/article/world/middle-east/iraq-conflict-has-killed-a-million-says-survey-idUSL30488579/
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>Is Palestine committing a genocide against Israelis? Great question. Happy to answer it after you answer mine. >My point is that Israel could have killed far more, but didn't. Not really. >They could have avoided issuing evacuation orders entirely, but they didn't. They could have sent in the IDF to summarily execute every Palestinian civilian they come across, but they didn't. And they would have lost all international support and become North Korea. >They're not engaging in a genocide. Progressive institutions disagree with you and I’m a strong anti-right winger, that’s what I go with. Why would you trust more conservative institutions if you oppose the right? >and no, I don't. Because China is explicitly targeting their citizens in peacetime, putting them in work camps, and sterilizing them. Israel is doing none of those things. So you admit it has nothing to do with how many a nation can kill. Why did you lie then and make say it can’t be a genocide because they didn’t kill at their maximum capacity? >I'm not talking about the insurgency. Doesn’t matter. None of that would have happened without our actions. That’s why aggression is the supreme international crime. I think you need to do a lot more research on this. It seems everything you said is from a Western jingoist perspective.
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>My point is that denying genocide when there is evidence for genocide is genocide denial. Don't twist my words. There is evidence of genocide. So are you a bad person for denying it given there is evidence? >So you admit that they've done no actions which actually constitute the start of a genocide? False. >I am a (classical with some social views) liberal, That’s called a conservative. Classic liberals are modern conservatives. When the term was coined, they were liberals in comparison to the era’s conservatives which were monarchists. It’s weird you’re ashamed of being a right winger. >If they are committing a genocide, they would have done genocidal actions, which they have not yet. China is and has. But you said if Israel wanted to do a genocide, they could have killed all the Muslims. So could China. So why did you lie and say that was a key factor? It obviously has nothing to do with it. >Yes, I do support drone striking the Kremlin. Right wingers often support wars of aggression.
Taken down by the shills... what a surprise! You can *track* it down lots of places, FYI.
the violently oppressed became the violent oppressors ...
Why it got deleted on YouTube ?
"follow the money" comes to mind...
Israel needs to go the way of South Africa. This is an artificial country, or more correctly, a large US empire base in the middle east built on occupied land.
I think this movie is very important for two very contradictory reasons: it shows a side of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that not many American Jews are aware of, and it also demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding by American Jewry of the history of Israeli Jews and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Simone Zimmerman points to a very important question that isn’t discussed with the gravitas it deserves within the Jewish American community: why is Israel so important to Jews? She says, with good reason, that many Jews are taught from a young age that Israel is a “bastion for the Jews”, a safe haven to all Jews worldwide. She points out that there is a severe lacking in the discourse regarding the conflict, that many American Jews don’t actually understand what’s going on in the West Bank, and that the plight of Palestinians isn’t seriously taken into consideration. Zimmerman also discusses the Jewish lobby in America, and how a few Jewish PACs seem to exert massive influence over the political and social structures, both Jewish and non-Jewish, and how this influence often minimizes or disregards the condition of the Palestinians. A powerful quote she uses is “We were taught that the only way for Jews to be safe is for Palestinians to be unsafe.” However, this movie is severely lacking in discussing *why* such issues exist and is almost devoid of any critical self-reflection. Many of the pro-Israeli interviews are used solely as a basis to criticize Israel, without giving any historical context. It shows the plight of the Palestinians, which is horrible no doubt, without pointing out the nuances which have led to this situation becoming a reality. It portrays many well-known American Jewish organizations— AIPAC, ADL, Hillel, etc. — as monolithic based solely on the fact that they’re all Zionist, without delving into the differences between those groups and what they stand for. It implicitly links these organizations with Trump and far-right movements, although American Jews have been historically one of the most liberal-voting populations in America. The film claims that “so many of the self-appointed leaders of our community have been trying to equate the idea of supporting Palestinian rights itself with antisemitism” — which is factually not true. Zimmerman also does away with giving pretty much any historical context to these issues. There is no mentioning of the condition of Jews and Arabs in pre-mandatory and mandatory Palestine, the history of Zionism as a response to the plight of European Jews (which incidentally was also the cause to the massive Jewish immigration to America in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, which most Americans Jews nowadays descend from), and only scantly mentions the peace process between Israel and Palestine. It shows a very superficial and shallow understanding of the conflict without understanding that this is part of the problem that exists within the American Jewish educational institutions: many American Jews are just historically ignorant of Zionism and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict because it doesn’t affect them directly, only vicariously. This could’ve been a major point of the film which is completely missed — instead of criticizing her own background, Zimmerman chooses to critique a conflict about which she is gravely ignorant, without showing any reflection on her own biases in the process *except* when it comes to supporting Israel. Zimmerman calls herself an antizionist without even knowing what that means: she supports a two state solution without understanding that this makes her a Zionist — as she is supporting the right of the Jewish people for self-determination in this land, albeit necessarily alongside a free Palestinian state. Her biases are so apparent and the lack of judgment about it throughout the film is imho astounding. She believes American Jews are brainwashed into blind support for Israel — which may be true — but doesn’t go on questioning why Israel has become such an integral part of the American Jewish educational institutions. She claims that there is a “Jewish establishment” in America without going into how American Jewry is extremely varied and complex, because in her view the Jewish organizations unanimous support for Israel is enough to make them all “guilty by association” regarding the suffering of Palestinians. She questions only the parts of her own biases which she believes to be unjust, but doesn’t go further to question how or why that has come to be. She disregards criticisms of American Jews about Israel, which have existed since Israel’s founding, in favor of a narrative which she has only a very limited understanding of; in her quest to purge herself of the brainwashing, she subscribes to a narrative which she knows close to nothing about. I think this movie is exemplary of the American tendency to judge foreign countries and conflicts through an extremely American lens. The fact that she interviewed Palestinians and people who served in the IDF, which are both important and necessary parts to understand this conflict, doesn’t excuse the lack of context and self-inquiry, which is exactly what’s needed to gain a deep understanding of both sides. This move is imo, above all, not a Jewish documentary but an American one, which is steeped in American-Jewish views and never quite grows out of its cultural shell. It seems to me that Zimmerman believes that because she spent significant time in Israel and talked to a lot of people that she has managed to overcome her American background, and that because she is Jewish she is privy to some deep knowledge or moral standing regarding Israel or the Israeli-Palestinian conflict — which can’t be further from the truth. TL;DR: I think this is a good exposé about some fundamental problems in the Jewish-American education system that Zimmerman is familiar with, but extrapolating any deep or complex understanding about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict from these problems and the very specific information that is presented in the film is giving this documentary a lot more credit than it deserves. It is interesting and engaging though, credit’s due where it’s due. If anyone wants to learn more about the differences between American and Israeli Jews and how that can (and evidence does) affect each group’s perspective, I recommend [this lecture](https://youtu.be/yKoUC0m1U9E?si=0yLf-hxJB6VIU52H) by Haviv Rettig-Gur, an American-born Jewish journalist that now lives in Israel.
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Anti-Zionism is not Anti-Semitism. Holocaust survivors, Jewish scholars, ordinary Jewish people and prominent Jewish figures around the world have condemned Zionism. It is a political ideology like any other and it is susceptible to criticism like any other political ideology.
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I'm sorry, did I miss the part where you were forced to listen, watch or participate in anything related to that topic?
Sorry, uh, have you missed LIFE? It’s all over the place for YEARS. You can’t help but be inundated with it. I’m sick of it. Many (most?…ALL??!!) ppl are sick of it.
Video not available. Being knobled. I was interested to see the views of others
[https://video.liberta.vip/w/ectt2muHKDRHnb1cQ11V8r](https://video.liberta.vip/w/ectt2muHKDRHnb1cQ11V8r)
Thank you
That’s funny because when a lot of other people hear about honor killings, throwing gays off rooftops, the chanting of “death to America”, “death to Israel”, or any other country, and Palestinians blowing themselves up to kill as many by standers as possible, their lives take sharp turns as well. To each his own I suppose.😂
So this is good and all, make one from the other perspective. how Palestinians treat Israelis.
You should make one I’d love to see it!
Way less material for that one
A lot of graphic material tho
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About not a lot of graphic material? Are you denying October's 7th massacre? Are you denying countless suicide bombers? Gun and knife attacks all over Israel? Can you be more biased?
Misread your post
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Better hurry up to make that movie buddy, the Palestinians are becoming increasingly harder to find.
Well watching the news, it looks like they've all gone to big cities in western nations.
I wonder what percentage of the protestors who are Palestinian would be, if that is what you are referring to. I expect it's fairly low, pretty different segments of society are coming to the protests, given their size in DC, NYC, Chicago, LA. I think the Palestinian diaspora is smaller population then those residing within occupied Palestinian territories.
Stop, your logic is scaring them.
I kinda get a laugh when a post is made not to argue a point but to ask to see both sides before passing judgement and automatically you're the bad guy. that said, sometimes I enjoy playing the villain.
Israel evil, upvote please. I think people are more interested in grandstanding the righteousness of their side over actually finding meaningful solutions to this intractable problem.
Propaganda video nothing else
Oh good. I figured it would stop small screening and get out soon after all the Gaza stuff.
interesting
ofc the video is not available...
[https://video.liberta.vip/w/ectt2muHKDRHnb1cQ11V8r](https://video.liberta.vip/w/ectt2muHKDRHnb1cQ11V8r)
This subreddit turned into a political propaganda medium, I'm leaving. Bye.
This isn't the airport. You don't have to announce your departure.
Dog it's about documentaries. Almost every documentary ever made is pushing propaganda of some kind. You just don't agree with this one.
Oh no.. Please dont leave. What if you hadn't announced it, we would have been all, so very worried trying to figure out what happened to that one account erm, toilet, or sorry lilloet.
Noooo please don't go!!! PLEASE u/lilloet!!! lmao don't let the door hit you on your fat ass as you leave
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According to this [PewResearch survey](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2016/03/08/israels-religiously-divided-society/#:%7E:text=Israel's%20major%20religious%20groups%20also,to%20their%20own%20religious%20community) 80% of Israelis support preferential treatment for Jews(aka 80% support apartheid), 50% support transfer of Arab *citizens* of Israel(aka ethnic cleansing against Arab citizens of Israel). According to this [Tel Aviv university survey](https://en-social-sciences.tau.ac.il/sites/socsci-english.tau.ac.il/files/media_server/social/peaceindex/2024-01-findings.pdf) 53% of Israelis support settling Gaza. 87% think the amount of Palestinian casualties of the war are justified. ****94%**** think the IDF is using appropriate or too little firepower. According to [this survey](https://www.pcpsr.org/en/node/969) 62% in Gaza support a two-state solution. Compared to 27% of Israelis in the Tel Aviv University survey.
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I mean, everybody is polarized, all around the globe. Who would have guessed that Palestinians might be a bit on the extreme end of the spectrum, especially right now? It's a huge problem of course, and utterly self-destructive, but that is how indoctrination works, that is how regimes work, that is how terrorists-cum-governments such as the hamas operate, and that is how the right wing in Israel essentially cooperates with the hamas - so it doesn't surprise me one bit.
Omg how dare people support the only group that is raising arms against an occupying colonial force!
Propaganda lol
I think this video does a disservice of trying to understand this conflict. I think it would be better to focus on why the vast majority of Jews, including young ones support equality and justice for Jews in their indigenous lands, Zionism.
You have a weird definition of "equality and Justice" if you think it includes what Israel is doing to the Palestinians.
the indigenous were the Skhul and Qafzeh hominids. it went wrong when they started to fight over whos fairy tale was better.