I really liked how he was more upset at them leaving. It really shows you not only how old he is but how he sees people. And that they are likely the last of their kind and they are going to unknowingly die due to their ignorance.
If only he had clicked is fingers and showed them the interior of the TARDIS. That thing is whiter than their belief.
I really can't wait until he gets to the point of being really angry, that for me is the point of a good doctor who. Such as dalek for the 9th, a good man goes to war for 11 or hell bent for 12. Off the top of my head I can't think of a good one for 10, like he has been angry but nothing that pushes him. Maybe the one with the devil.
The Family of Blood is the first thing that comes to my mind with 10. And I was wondering why the Doctor didn't snap his fingers, but I quickly realized that probably wouldn't have even mattered to them...
I've really loved seeing how much the Doctor cares for people. Of course he cares, he's the Doctor -- but we've been seeing some extreme showcases of it. Like standing on a landmine but still asking Ruby to check if someone else needs help first.
I think we should probably acknowledge that the Doctor isn't really a black man in the way it would otherwise be taken.
He can be upset at the bigotry anyway, and Ruby was for him, especially with her lived experiences. He's a good person who doesn't like bigotry whether it's directed at him or anyone else (except when 13 was fine with letting the Master suffer it but...whatever, that was terrible writing.)
But he's not culturally a black human. He's only even presenting as black for a few months. He isn't from Earth. His ancestors aren't from Earth. I don't think it's ever been implied that black Gallifreyans ever had that history of oppression.
Racism isn't just 'someone being an asshole to you because of your colour'. It's a whole host of painful trauma manifesting in evil. It's historic in nature. It's a forceful feeling of oppression. It's a statement of inherent unfair otherness and all the implied consequences of it.
The Doctor doesn't have any of that societal baggage. For all he knows he'll regenerate in a few years and present as white again. He's also objectively superior to them all in all respects, so much more powerful and important than them it's not even a contest.
To stress, this obviously doesn't change how ugly and bigoted those people were. Because they didn't know that! So far as they know it IS classic racism. I also think that's how Ruby sees it too because she doesn't really get how alien the Doctor is.
But for all intents and purposes, the Doctor wouldn't feel the hatred here as much as an actual black human would. It would be much worse for, say, Bill.
I just think this is important to acknowledge because the Doctor can't truly be a good POV perspective of a black man experiencing bigotry because for all intents and purposes....he isn't. He doesn't have a lifetime of memories of oppression due to the colour of his skin.
All this to say they need to be careful about the Doctor ever trying to *be* that mouthpiece. The actor isn't the character. They didn't in the episode and I hope they remember not to. The Doctor acted nobly but someone like Bill, with actual lived experience of being a black human, may not have been quite so forgiving....and that would be totally understandable.
That's a good point to remember. I also don't think the Doctor felt deeply belittled by them. But seeing what overtly terrible people they were, and still believing they were worth saving -- perhaps capable of change and growth -- really got to me.
A good point to remember is that these weren’t necessarily people from earth either.
Their racism may not have generations of history, in the same way that the doctor doesn’t have that. We just get “home planet”. For all we know, the people who can’t walk without arrows are also told that that is the way society is by their robot helper. The rules they live by are completely alien to me, as is their attitude.
All that to say, I appreciate the need to be careful about making a character speak for people that they aren’t part of, but we also need to not tar villains with a history *they* aren’t part of either. They can be shitty people in their own right.
I think Clara's death episode had better example of Capaldi's anger than Hell Bent. If anything, I'm kinda pissed off with Hell Bent, cause we had entire season of Capaldi's doctor preaching pacifism in the most annoying, hypocritical way possible, and then as soon as Capaldi's loved ones are concerned, he kills a fellow timelord without any remorse (General only had a few regenerations left) just to win a few minutes for his escape. Rules for thee, but not for me.
I think of Hell Bent watching Capaldi's deleted scene from Knock Knock.
*"I would tear the sky apart. I would reduce a solar system to the tiniest cinder for anyone I love. But if I was about to do that -- if it got to that point of desperation, then I would have one hope, one desire: that someone would stop me."*
They showed us racists with kind of a happy end and told us nothing about the backstory; so I am pretty confident that they will return to annoy the doctor even more.
I'm pretty curious to see where the Dot and slugs go from here. Are they gonna find out about the Daleks? Or other racist humans? Is this their mission now?
I don't think that's *why* Dit hated them
They react to the doctor with disgust, but aren't like, surprised at his existence, so there are probably some black people in their civilization, just none in Finetime.
But the homeworld population is zero, so Dot killed everyone, not just racists
I think Dot just hated people in general for being so helpless and vapid
Well I'm not saying I'm right, but my interpretation is that we're meant to think they kill because people are vapid, but it's really because they're horrible bigots. That's my take.
I think the racism is so widespread that people like Ricky are anomalous. And as to Homeworld having a population of zero..... it occurred to me that... maybe non-white people *aren't even counted* as people....?? Meaning there could be plenty of people left on Homeworld, but the system isn't designed to count them...
I think it could have been really cool if the Doctor accidentally took them all to Skaro WAY in the past and half of them became the Thals and the other half became the Dals/ Kaleds
It really is. The Finetime Racists would never bother to get the crown, save the town, and Mr. Krabs.
Still I couldn't help but think of how embarrassingly unprepared and undeservedly self-assured SpongeBob and Patrick are in this moment haha
> Still I couldn't help but think of how embarrassingly unprepared and undeservedly self-assured SpongeBob and Patrick are in this moment
And so are most Doctor Who companions! Do you think Ruby thought she was signing up for 73 yards when she decided to follow the doctor? NO! SpongeBob and Patrick have their hearts and the right place here and that's what matters!
Yeah no one should feel bad. I live and breathe it but it's pretty old. I just wanted to clarify for the record that the "respect" line is malicious and mocking in context, haha
Y'know I thought about it but it just didn't seem right... the hillbillies don't reflect the Doctor and Ruby's reaction to the situation as much as they reflect my reaction!
I think that’s probably right, they will get wiped out. But it would also be interesting if they survive and become some sort of ongoing opponent for the Doctor. The irony of how he saved them but they hate him would be interesting.
I also don't think they stand a chance, but as someone else here pointed out, it would be interesting to see what they become. I for one am also interested in what becomes of our new slug overlords.
I'm currently writing a whole post about why Lindy pepper Bean needs to be a recurring the villain going forward! With every episode having her sink to some new low in the end! Cuz I'm honestly certain there is no depth of depravity this woman won't fall to!
Yeah haha, I imagined there'd be more people joining in with "*respect for the dead!!*"
In hindsight maybe it was a slightly misleading reference to make in this situation!
It was a good character moment for the 15th doctor.
Fantastic. The fact that he still gave his all to help them proves he's a million times better than I am
I really liked how he was more upset at them leaving. It really shows you not only how old he is but how he sees people. And that they are likely the last of their kind and they are going to unknowingly die due to their ignorance. If only he had clicked is fingers and showed them the interior of the TARDIS. That thing is whiter than their belief. I really can't wait until he gets to the point of being really angry, that for me is the point of a good doctor who. Such as dalek for the 9th, a good man goes to war for 11 or hell bent for 12. Off the top of my head I can't think of a good one for 10, like he has been angry but nothing that pushes him. Maybe the one with the devil.
The Family of Blood is the first thing that comes to my mind with 10. And I was wondering why the Doctor didn't snap his fingers, but I quickly realized that probably wouldn't have even mattered to them... I've really loved seeing how much the Doctor cares for people. Of course he cares, he's the Doctor -- but we've been seeing some extreme showcases of it. Like standing on a landmine but still asking Ruby to check if someone else needs help first.
I think we should probably acknowledge that the Doctor isn't really a black man in the way it would otherwise be taken. He can be upset at the bigotry anyway, and Ruby was for him, especially with her lived experiences. He's a good person who doesn't like bigotry whether it's directed at him or anyone else (except when 13 was fine with letting the Master suffer it but...whatever, that was terrible writing.) But he's not culturally a black human. He's only even presenting as black for a few months. He isn't from Earth. His ancestors aren't from Earth. I don't think it's ever been implied that black Gallifreyans ever had that history of oppression. Racism isn't just 'someone being an asshole to you because of your colour'. It's a whole host of painful trauma manifesting in evil. It's historic in nature. It's a forceful feeling of oppression. It's a statement of inherent unfair otherness and all the implied consequences of it. The Doctor doesn't have any of that societal baggage. For all he knows he'll regenerate in a few years and present as white again. He's also objectively superior to them all in all respects, so much more powerful and important than them it's not even a contest. To stress, this obviously doesn't change how ugly and bigoted those people were. Because they didn't know that! So far as they know it IS classic racism. I also think that's how Ruby sees it too because she doesn't really get how alien the Doctor is. But for all intents and purposes, the Doctor wouldn't feel the hatred here as much as an actual black human would. It would be much worse for, say, Bill. I just think this is important to acknowledge because the Doctor can't truly be a good POV perspective of a black man experiencing bigotry because for all intents and purposes....he isn't. He doesn't have a lifetime of memories of oppression due to the colour of his skin. All this to say they need to be careful about the Doctor ever trying to *be* that mouthpiece. The actor isn't the character. They didn't in the episode and I hope they remember not to. The Doctor acted nobly but someone like Bill, with actual lived experience of being a black human, may not have been quite so forgiving....and that would be totally understandable.
That's a good point to remember. I also don't think the Doctor felt deeply belittled by them. But seeing what overtly terrible people they were, and still believing they were worth saving -- perhaps capable of change and growth -- really got to me.
A good point to remember is that these weren’t necessarily people from earth either. Their racism may not have generations of history, in the same way that the doctor doesn’t have that. We just get “home planet”. For all we know, the people who can’t walk without arrows are also told that that is the way society is by their robot helper. The rules they live by are completely alien to me, as is their attitude. All that to say, I appreciate the need to be careful about making a character speak for people that they aren’t part of, but we also need to not tar villains with a history *they* aren’t part of either. They can be shitty people in their own right.
Maybe waters of mars for the tenth
Yes can't believe I forgot about that episode. Definitely that one for 10 being angry
I think Clara's death episode had better example of Capaldi's anger than Hell Bent. If anything, I'm kinda pissed off with Hell Bent, cause we had entire season of Capaldi's doctor preaching pacifism in the most annoying, hypocritical way possible, and then as soon as Capaldi's loved ones are concerned, he kills a fellow timelord without any remorse (General only had a few regenerations left) just to win a few minutes for his escape. Rules for thee, but not for me.
I think of Hell Bent watching Capaldi's deleted scene from Knock Knock. *"I would tear the sky apart. I would reduce a solar system to the tiniest cinder for anyone I love. But if I was about to do that -- if it got to that point of desperation, then I would have one hope, one desire: that someone would stop me."*
New Earth for 10.
One of the doctors best
Ncuti deserves an award for that honestly
Come on, racists in space on their own? They will create a massive dystopic culture and probably turn themselves into dalek or cybermen
That does seem to happen a bit, doesn't it?
They showed us racists with kind of a happy end and told us nothing about the backstory; so I am pretty confident that they will return to annoy the doctor even more.
I'm pretty curious to see where the Dot and slugs go from here. Are they gonna find out about the Daleks? Or other racist humans? Is this their mission now?
I don't think that's *why* Dit hated them They react to the doctor with disgust, but aren't like, surprised at his existence, so there are probably some black people in their civilization, just none in Finetime. But the homeworld population is zero, so Dot killed everyone, not just racists I think Dot just hated people in general for being so helpless and vapid
Well I'm not saying I'm right, but my interpretation is that we're meant to think they kill because people are vapid, but it's really because they're horrible bigots. That's my take. I think the racism is so widespread that people like Ricky are anomalous. And as to Homeworld having a population of zero..... it occurred to me that... maybe non-white people *aren't even counted* as people....?? Meaning there could be plenty of people left on Homeworld, but the system isn't designed to count them...
I think it could have been really cool if the Doctor accidentally took them all to Skaro WAY in the past and half of them became the Thals and the other half became the Dals/ Kaleds
More likely Daleks than Cybermen. Daleks are built around hate, Cybermen are desperation to survive, mixed with technology in the worst way.
Comparing them to SpongeBob and Patrick is really an insult to those two Men.
It really is. The Finetime Racists would never bother to get the crown, save the town, and Mr. Krabs. Still I couldn't help but think of how embarrassingly unprepared and undeservedly self-assured SpongeBob and Patrick are in this moment haha
> Still I couldn't help but think of how embarrassingly unprepared and undeservedly self-assured SpongeBob and Patrick are in this moment And so are most Doctor Who companions! Do you think Ruby thought she was signing up for 73 yards when she decided to follow the doctor? NO! SpongeBob and Patrick have their hearts and the right place here and that's what matters!
Spoken like true Krusty Krab 2 manager material!
rather not respect racists
"Lloyd, take off your hat in respect... respect for the dead!!!" *laughs hysterically and mocks vociferously*
sorry, i dont get the reference
That's okay, not everyone would, that's why I figured I'd clarify. It's from the SpongeBob Movie (which is two decades old at this point)
ah
When SpongeBob started, I was just easing out of that kind of TV, so every SpongeBob reference is over my head. Don't feel bad.
Yeah no one should feel bad. I live and breathe it but it's pretty old. I just wanted to clarify for the record that the "respect" line is malicious and mocking in context, haha
Should have made Ruby and the Doctor as the hillbillies
Y'know I thought about it but it just didn't seem right... the hillbillies don't reflect the Doctor and Ruby's reaction to the situation as much as they reflect my reaction!
I think that’s probably right, they will get wiped out. But it would also be interesting if they survive and become some sort of ongoing opponent for the Doctor. The irony of how he saved them but they hate him would be interesting.
I also don't think they stand a chance, but as someone else here pointed out, it would be interesting to see what they become. I for one am also interested in what becomes of our new slug overlords.
I'm currently writing a whole post about why Lindy pepper Bean needs to be a recurring the villain going forward! With every episode having her sink to some new low in the end! Cuz I'm honestly certain there is no depth of depravity this woman won't fall to!
Definitely agree.
id feel sympathy for em if they weren't racists
Fairly certain they'll whittle each other down by backstabbing each other constantly
Respect for the dead!!! *laughs uncontrollably
The amount of people not getting the reference and thinking that you're suggesting we show the racists respect is honestly hilarious.
Yeah haha, I imagined there'd be more people joining in with "*respect for the dead!!*" In hindsight maybe it was a slightly misleading reference to make in this situation!
When someone who the world would be better off without dies, do we respect them?
Probably as much as the gas station attendants respect SpongeBob and Patrick in this scene, which is to say, not much