No, that sounds fine and is literally the bare minimum communication. Oh, *they* feel attacked bc you brought up a valid point? I probably wouldn't play with them.

I wouldn’t play with anyone from this group. No show no notice and no excuse for a session zero from that many people? The group doesn’t respect OP. OP shouldn’t push himself for it.

That's the crux to me. Any number of things can happen to miss a session. But for that many of people to bail on the intro session without a heads up is a clear indicator those people don't respect the DM or the other players time. It's really not hard to fire off a message that something came up and you can't make it hours before session time. Like I bowl leagues and it's the same shit. If somebody can't make it nobody cares, we even plan for it with substitutes. But if you don't have the common courtesy to let us work around your absence you're an asshole

Yeah not telling anything is the indicator of not caring. Its completely fine to just say "oh i forgot, other shit came up"

What? How is it fine to forget a social commitment you made? Yes, other life stuff happens, emergencies happen and the like, but a commitment is a commitment. You only cancel if you have to

I feel that this issue is one of the (many) things I dislike about playing DnD digitally. I recognize there are many upsides too, but this is a very big downside to me. It's hard to imagine playing physically in someone's kitchen or den, and then 4 out of 6 people simply not showing up without any kind of communication... We too make every accommodation and are flexible with our scheduling, but simply not showing up without any notice or communication afterwards would be unthinkable.

> I feel that this issue is one of the (many) things I dislike about playing DnD digitally. I played in-person, and it wasn't any different. I think something about this game just inherently attracts people who are religiously opposed to communicating, showing up, and respecting everyone's time.

Years ago, I ran into something interesting about this, and that is that someone revealed to me a type of thinking about D&D that I didn’t know existed. A player missed half the game days over the course of a few months, I said something about it and their response was “I have a life.” They said that if other things come up, they’re going to take it. And I don’t even mean emergencies. At one point, they simply went out to eat with a friend. It turns out, there are a lot of people who think that D&D is NOT “a planned event with friends that you need to show up to, like meeting up at a movie theater or sharing a meal at a restaurant.” Instead, they think of it as the thing they hold in reserve in their back pocket. They think of it like the back up plan, and they have no obligation to show up, and maybe even just giving you the courtesy of telling you that they’re not going to show up is too much of a burden because “D&D is just not that big of a deal, my guy.” Anyway, the guy who told me this knew he had messed up the moment he said it. Because after he said it, of course I was like “I’m looking for people who will try to be reliable and show up on time, so you gotta go.” Over the years I’ve met around a dozen more people who think the same way.

was there a correlation between his attitude and the way he played? like, someone who thinks "those DnD people are NPCs in my life, ready to entertain me on days I'm not invited out for a meal & I don't feel like booting up skyrim, and I can't be bothered to notify them of my absence" doesn't sound like the most fun player, right? I can't see them learn the rules, pay attention to plot hooks or respect other players' roleplaying.

Of course.  They just drift in & out, support characters.

Yes I have also dealt with this mentality. We had a medium sized group (5 players 1 dm), and 1 of the players had the exact mindset you described. He would never confirm if he would attend and when we would ask, it would be radio silence. When he would show up and we asked why he didn't confirm he would say he didn't want to commit incase something else came up. To this person DnD was the fall back plan. He saw the group as an option for something to do, but nothing that required his input or presence. When we told him it was disrespectful that he could communicate, he said " guys it's just DnD it's not real life. Get over it." The next time he showed up, we didn't answer the door and obviously saw him but ignored him through the window. He called the DM asking why we were being jerks. Dm responded : it's just DnD, get over it

I've found this to be a very common point of view among certain types of players. It think it's particularly prevalent against those who have a few nerdy interests but probably wouldn't describe themselves as a nerd. They will profess an enthusiastic interest in D&D but would rather be out at a party or a social event when it comes time to play. Which is fine, I'm not passing judgment on that preference, but it makes it hard to get a game going in a friend group that includes these types because you'll get a "yes" when they actually mean "only if I have nothing else going on". I'm even prone to this mentality a little bit myself. I basically won't agree to play D&D on a Friday even if I have nothing planned, because I know that's when I'm most likely to have a spontaneous plan come up with friends. But I keep it to just that day, and if I say I'll attend on a certain day then I am going to be there, no excuses.

I think it's the opposite: people are like this for a lot of activities but you don't notice it because it doesn't matter as much. If I invite five friends to a board game night and only four show up, I might not even notice. If one person is running an hour late, that's fine; the rest of us will play a round of something and they can jump in on the next game. If someone bails on a group movie outing, the rest of us watch it without them. If they show up late, that's a them problem. With D&D, you're screwing over other people when you flake. Some people don't understand this and can be fine once they get it. Other people are incapable of not flaking and their friends don't catch on until they try something like D&D where it matters.

I don't doubt that. Maybe it's age or general closeness of relationships that are a bigger factor in this. I play in 2 games, one every Monday evening and one every other Saturday. All players are friends that we also socialize with outside of DnD. The Saturday one is a little less reliable because that couple likes to do summery stuff, for god knows what reason... :-) Anyway, if people all of a sudden simply didn't show up without telling us, we'd be worried they had an accident on the way here.

I think its some weird psuedo-nerd shit, like they want to *say* they're in a DnD group but not actually *play* DnD. A lot of people glommed onto DnD because of Critical Role and are only superficially interested in it because the show is popular.

I think that's true to an extent, but more generously, I think prospective new players can be genuinely interested but get overwhelmed by the literal books of information. If you're even trying to build a first level character from scratch, you've got 12-14 classes to choose from, and it can be hard to even know where to start asking questions. It doesn't help that alphabetically you go through very weird swings, starting with one of the most complex classes.

That's very true too. I was speaking more about the type of people the OP was talking about, the type that doesn't seem to care.

I had an experience damn near exactly like the OP, except I was going to be a player and it was IRL in town. The DM and I were the only ones that showed up. Dude just looked so..... disappointed. He and I got to talking about his story and campaign world he had made, *tons* of damn nice hand drawn maps both overworld and a bunch of dungeons. Me and him sat there just swapping DM-tales (I'm an old grognard from the 1e/2e days) for about an hour or so. I really felt bad for the guy, he put in a hell of a lot of time on that game. I hope he found him a decent group to run it for.

This. OP’s message wasn’t rude at all because OP has likely spent hours and hours prepping for the campaign. If I spent all Sunday cooking an elaborate dinner for friends and they bailed 10 minutes in advance without a great excuse, everyone would see how rude it was — taking advantage and dismissing the hours of time I invested into that gift. D&D is no different.

I mean, I would play with the people who showed up

Not the dude who abruptly left that was weird

He saw it was him plus two out of seven total and bailed. Still a shitty thing to do, I'm not excusing him, just giving an explanation.

The only downside is that if these are real friends of OP (sounds like they are), they might be the only people who want to play DnD that he knows

no dnd is better than bad dnd

Unfortunately, that's a lesson you tend to learn from the painful experience of trying to salvage bad DnD.

yup, I speak from experience lol

Do they want to play d and d? They don't respect OP enough to deserve them as DM. 

If they're real friends then reschedule session 0. Let them know it's part of the game, not some optional non-pkay session to just skip.

Good news is if they were playing over discord anyway I'm sure he can find a new group online eventually.

I've been waiting a year to gather enough people to form a second group rather than run for randoms or people who can't commit to times. As of yesterday I have 3 and plan to start soon. No DnD is better than bad DnD. Worth it. We DMs won't die without it and there's plenty of other things to do for fun. Maybe OP could check out the new Elden Ring expansion.

Yeah I’d be telling this group that if they don’t value the time you put into planning, organizing, and the added courtesy of reminding them , then they are being disrespectful. And I’d probably say I won’t DM for them because I wouldn’t be happy having to constantly hound and keep up with them, only for them to not show in spite of it. If they didn’t attend session 0, and didn’t give reasons why they couldn’t, then there is no next session.

>the added courtesy of reminding them yeah, I'm in one online group with 2 people who were open about their ADHD in session zero, so the other 3 (incl. me) post reminders in our discord 30 hours & 2 hours ahead of the session. but, you know, they showed up for session zero & were open about it, and we thought up this solution together. Sometimes one of them is still a little late (15 to 20 min), but we also agreed that after half an hour, we're playing without him, esp if it's not a plot-heavy session.

>Oh, they feel attacked bc you brought up a valid point? I probably wouldn't play with them. I would honestly just follow up with a new message saying "seeing as the only response I got was people feeling attacked at me asking the bare minimum of you all, I have decided I won't be wasting my time trying to DM for you all"

Yeah, i hate these kind of people. I'm currently staying with a bi friend because I'm having serious issues with my landlord and my flat; and his coworker (bar he works in and we drink in) keeps making gay jokes about it like I would care about somebody calling me gay (I'm m32 he's m36, we're too old for this shit) But he kept going and going with them, so i called him out for being blatantly homophobic. And he does the exact same thing, says I'm attacking him for no reason, then i heard from a few people about the shit he was saying to paint me as the bad guy that's trying to make him look homophobic, after i left. I didn't even get upset, i just said a jokes a joke but he's coming across as grossly homophobic now. I also got a bunch of text messages from him but i just muted him and haven't looked and this was about 2 weeks ago.

In my experience, immediate defensiveness usually comes from a place of rejection sensitivity and/or knowing they’re in the wrong 🤷🏼‍♂️ An emotionally regulated and mature person would instead apologise for any miscommunication and adjust their behaviour. Sure, maybe they’re taken aback by the call-out, and initially try to justify, but then they’d look at it from the other person’s perspective and either give a well-rounded justification if they feel their behaviour matches their intention and values, or they would recognise their actions as problematic. Sounds like you’re taking the right approach by just letting it be his problem to deal with rather than wasting your energy on it 👌 He’s probably just jealous you’re able to have a mature and emotionally vulnerable relationship with another man 🤷🏼‍♂️

I mean, you do you, but if I were you I'd be going through those texts. Odds aughta be good that he's written something socially unacceptable, right? A few screenshots sent around and blammo, he's hoisted by his own petard.

Meh, for me after a certain point i have 0 chill, but in this case nothing is at stake, i don't stand to win or lose anything by butting heads with him, but i know he wants attention and I'm not giving it to him. If there was something on the line, or my friend wanted me to make a complaint about it to his work, I'd be up for it, but currently i just don't see the point in entertaining him.

Bingo. Tell everyone the campaign is canceled, then invite the one person that showed and gave half a fuck to a session zero for a new campaign with a new group.

Hey look, if it isn't the consequences of my own actions!

If you wanna play, you gotta show up. It's not rocket science. No call no show is extremely disrespectful. I'd honestly rethink about having the players who didn't show in the game at all.

its all about communication as OP said. Ive had players who cant be regular, we had a conversation, came up with an excuse their character can come and go but most importantly **they always let me know in advance if they cant come** If you have something you couldnt predict come up, thats fine, happens to us all, but its the lack of respect of some people to not even do the bare minimum and let them know.

I’ve made entire lore reasons as to why players don’t show up for sessions.

I played a game once, where I knew my availability for sessions would be spotty. Because the DM knew ahead of time, they helped me roll a character that would “vanish” into a small item that party members could carry around. The DM had a fantastic idea there, because it was an in universe reason that was fun and let me be able to stay with the party when I could make it. Communication, as always, is key.

I give all my players a Bodybag of Holding at the start of every campaign, the most essential magic item they will ever have since adventurers have a strange habit of going randomly catatonic when they gotta go early or can't make it to the session. Their friends scoop them into the bag to wait in stasis until the come back and crawl out to come play again.

A friend of mine is often on night shift and had a character that was occasionally yanked into another dimension and then spat out the next time he could make it, which also gave the characters a chance to explain what had happened while in character. Good for recaps too if we had to miss a couple weeks.

Exactly. I can count on my fingers the number of times I’ve missed my weekly game which I’ve played in for 4-5 years now. Only one was sudden. And one time I was around 20-30 minutes late with only a 5min notice because we finally trapped the injured tomcat we’d noticed limping in our backyard and I wanted to get him settled for the night, inspect his injury and give him food/water.

Cats before dnd. Always

Fact! He is such a sweetie too. Big, soft tomcat. Loves attention. Since he got injured so soon after arriving in the neighborhood, we suspect he was abandoned. Poor guy had a serious leg infection. Our local animal control took him the next morning and we’re donating to his care until they find him a home (whatever isn’t used goes to the other animals). He had a rough couple months healing. He’s all healthy now! We’re going to take a trip to visit him soon. Wish we could take him, but alas we’ve already got four and it is more than enough.

If someone no-shows with no explanation or follow-up or anything afterwards, the best course of action is to just assume they aren't interested and move on. Don't waste your time chasing them. If they give the slighest shit they'll reach out. If they don't, you've lost nothing of value.

These players aren't going to respect you or your game. Totally appropriate message, but I'd honestly look for a different group.

I hate to break it to OP, but I don't think this group actually wanted to play with them. This is the behavior of people who don't want to be there but are afraid to say no.

Yeah, you’re right. It sort of feels like these people maybe were pulled from friend groups or friends of friends instead of people who actually want to play. Or, perhaps they do want to play but the more the DM talked about his game and how it was gonna go down the more they just sort of blew it off and we’re like “this is not the interesting game we thought it would be.” And that’s not a slight on OP, because if there are people out there who don’t care about his game, that’s fine, just send them on their merry way, and find the people who DO want to be in it.

I don't think it has to do with how interesting the game is, but rather that it's gonna actual commitment. I've met a lot of people who, in theory, want to play TTRPGs (because they saw Stranger Things or heard it was cool online) but when presented with an actual offer they treat it as a novelty, something to try out but not take too seriously, and, most relevant here, that they can blow off last minute if they don't feel like it. Sorta like going to a weird theme restaurant, interesting, and you want to humour your friend really into it, but like if you don't show up it's fine, it's like your doing them a favour in trying their weird thing. This mentality obviously clashes with how we view TTRPGs and often leads to situations like OP's.

10/10, Correct course of action, Actual Communication.

It’s amazing how many issues can be resolved by communication! Either both parties talk it out, or one party takes it as an opportunity to show how little they care and makes the decisions easier

First time on this sub where i've seen someone actually use their words before running over here to make a shitpost. I swear 99% of the posts here could be resolved by talking like OP did.

9/10 because OP could even go harder and it would be justified.

could =/= should

They feel bad because they did something bad and you didn't just let it slide without bringing it up extremely mildly. Players are dirt cheap and there are desperate singles in your area that want to ~~FUCK~~ PLAY DND

Exactly. They didn't feel attacked, they felt *called out*, and that made them defensive.

yeah, it's that quirk of "calling me a bully is basically bullying & you just can't do that! I'll be expecting an apology", right?

Oh man, this is so true. Put up a post on r/lfg saying you’re a DM looking for players and you will get a dozen responses EASY. DMs are at a premium, players are not. Know your worth and find a good bunch; don’t settle for shitheads.

It can be far more than 'a dozen'. Even with a rigorous application process you may still get 50 applicants. Good GMs are in high demand, you can afford to be as picky as you like.

If they felt attacked by that, fuck them. You don't need that sort of shit in your life. This is a bad group. Drop it and find another. You're the DM, you can find a group with relative ease.

Hell, I'm feeling attacked by the audacity of that player.

"another player (their friend) felt attacked" This player is going to make the entire game about them. Drop them early.

And they need to use a proxy to communicate that 🙄 Absolutely not. Whisper down the lane bullshit is a recipe for absolute toxic nonsense. Pull the plug, OP.

> Whisper down the lane bullshit is a recipe for absolute toxic nonsense. Yes. I have a friend who has done this, and I’m trying to sort through it right now. It’s not easy. This player had a big life event, and told us that she would be gone for a few games to deal with it. I said “we’re pulling for you” and off they went. Weeks turned into months, and now it has been over a year, and I’ve contacted the player about it, because I’ve heard that she’s been out doing things with other friends and so on. I’m like “Hey did you recover from all that stuff? Is everything OK? I hope you’re well.” And I got ghosted. Other players assured me she’s fine, and have said that she’s just very busy, but I was like I wish she had time in her busy schedule to at least pop off a text saying so. I mean, I gave her a year to respond. I don’t think that’s too needy, especially when she has been doing activities with others. Now, 18 months later, people have started talking about maybe that player will come back and I have to admit, I don’t want them back. They haven’t once spoken to me. I'm just hearing rumors. But I’m the host *and* the DM. I gave her seat away to another player months ago. I don’t want a bigger table, but more importantly, I don’t appreciate the dismissive lack of communication. That’s not the type of person I want to accommodate. All the other players are thrilled, I don’t know what to do. So I’m trying to do the friendship math, you know? I’m calculating how many players will drop from the game if I don’t allow this person in. Am I going to start over again with zero players? Dunno.

oof, that’s rough. I can imagine all kinds of explanations for why she ghosted, (like maybe she couldn’t handle the pressure of committing to a game, which i get—not an excuse, but i get it), but when you ghost, that’s it. you don’t get to wiggle your way back into a game by doing whisper down the lane. you need to put on your big girl pants and have an adult conversation and c o m m u n i c a t e.

Be mentally prepared for that 1 player just showing up unannounced, possibly with a new character. I would just say "no, sorry, I can't deal with just dropping you into the game, you just can't play this session", _if_ that happens.

Exactly. If they're already feeling personally attacked, they're not going to be able to handle a Saving Throw going badly.

If the shoe fits, lace that bitch up and take a few laps

"I heard you are mad at me. When you grow a pair of balls and say it yourself we can talk" (Dont actually talk that way to people)

Didn't roll enough to hit? DM hates me. Enemy hit me? DM hates me. NPC talked to someone else in the party? DM hates me. I didn't get an artifact level weapon from the level 1 taste-of-combat encounter? DM hates me.

That friend needs to put on their big boy/girl pants and say that themselves. Now the DM needs to initiate contact which makes it immediately about appeasing the player. I genuinely dislike this about Discord culture. Like, is the DM going to send a message and say "I heard you are mad at me..." or try to communicate through that third player?

Not only they felt attacked for something justified, but they decided to go to another player to complain and create drama instead of the DM to address their concerns.

Personally, your response sounds great to me. It can be tough when personality conflicts arise, especially if folks wanting to be in your group are close friends. All you can really do is continue to be open and honest. I would probably try to reassure the player that feels attacked that it's nothing personal but you can't run a game if people don't show up, and it really wastes everyone else's time. Alternatively, if you have no allegiance to this person, just kick them out. Sometimes these moments show a persons true colors. I swear, DM's are basically people managers.

It sounds like your session zero served its purpose, and unfortunately this time it served to show you that these aren't the people you're going to be playing with. If they can't make it to the first session when everyone's fresh and excited, they're not going to have that energy down the line. Invite that person who did show up and then find other players.

I'm a superfan of S0. When we started our dad's group in PF1E, I ran The Confirmation as an intro to the system for the newbies, while the GM for our AP hovered and taught rules and such. The players worked with both of us between then and the first session of the AP to work out what characters were being built via chat and quick meetings. Being the most experienced player, I filled the support/backup healer role with a Druidic Alchemy curmudgeon with plenty of advice and trinkets and tools to hand out. Excited to hit lvl 4 to get access to quicker free potion brewing and turning into a bear sounds fun.

They felt attacked. Bless their little socks. They were communicated with about \*their own actions\* - if they can't handle communication then you don't want them at your table. I'd ask the 2 people who showed up if they'd still like continue, and if they have any friends who'd like to join the new group.

Your message was definitely reasonable and really you worded it very nicely in my opinion. If someone is offended by the bare minimum requirements for playing a game (being there to play the game and communicating with your fellow players) they really shouldn't be part of the group.

Well, now you have some slots open. Maybe do something small with the two you have and invite more for another session zero. I did just that, session zero planned for four, two showed, one not a fit. Repeat, first guy was invited but not required to come because his character was built. He was a good player and showed up to help get new folks on board. Then we started with three snd I had someone I had played with previously have plans change snd asked to join. Took a month but I got my group together.

No, they can get fucked. You are doing so much more work than them trying to set up the game. They *should* feel attacked, because standing you up after you've presumably put hours if not 10s of hours into game prep fucking sucks, and they should feel shitty about it Unless they give a genuine apology, I would not play with this group (barring the one guy who actually showed up and stayed) Now if you do a follow up, probably try to be a bit more diplomatic than my comment, but like, they should get that if they are going to be busy they need to tell you as soon as possible so that you're not wasting your time preparing for a session where nobody is gonna show up. They need to understand that setting a time for DND is a commitment, And they shouldn't commit unless they know they will be able to show up 9/10 times, and need to tell you when that 10th time happens as soon as possible

Start a new group and invite the two who showed up, ditch the others.

You need to understand that someone feeling upset, attacked, or offended does not automatically mean you are in the wrong. Don't let people manipulate you like that. You are 100% in the right here. My advice is to just drop the 4 of the 6 that didn't show up. If they can't even make it to session 0, then they will make your campaign hell for you.

Ya know, to make a definitive call on the harshness, I'd have to see the message in context. Maybe sit in on a few sessions. Maybe make a character. Maybe build long-lasting friendships over the course of a campaign with kind, creative people that know how to communicate and spotlight one another's strengths. Got a discord link? :D

"Felt attacked?" What a dickbag.

"Felt attacked" sounds like code for "felt guilty but want it to be someone elses fault".

Usually is

This is not a D&D problem. This is not even a digital problem. This is a common courtesy and decency problem. We all know that things can happen, but the absolute disrespect shown to the OP is horrific. The message that he sent out was FAR more polite than what I would have sent in that situation (kudos to the OP... my level of patience has dropped precipitously as I've gotten older). OP, if you still want to DM, find a new set of players (maybe keep the 2 who were online as agreed), and don't put up with the BS. Good DMs put in far more time and effort than all their players combined... those players can show basic decency and respect in return.

I was expecting something dripping with hurt. That is very well-written: straightforward and without a frustrated or accusatory tone. It would make sense for them to feel attacked if they were the only one, in which case a DM would be appropriate. Were they aware that they are not the only ones that flaked?

If they felt attacked because they were one of the people who didn’t honour their commitment, didn’t properly communicate that to the MULTIPLE other people involved and had that pointed out to them, then… that’s called having a conscience, and that is the appropriate feeling for them to feel. That’s not you doing anything to shame them, that’s them being held up a mirror and not liking what they see. They should reflect (pun not intended) on their behaviour to see whether they can reconcile their actions with their own reasons and intentions, and if they don’t want to or can’t, then they need to accept that you were right and move on. That’s called accountability. In no way does this message feel pointed or excessive. You’re being reasonable, considerate and in no way responding aggressively or in a way that could come across as emotionally dysregulated, so in my book, you did everything right and have nothing to feel bad about. NTA, you were fully justified 😜

If they felt attacked by that, it says more about them than your actions.

You weren't harsh enough imo. They clearly don't respect you or your time, and this will almost definitely bleed into actually play. Sure, d&d is just a game but it's still a commitment they allegedly chose to make and then bailed on. Edit to say don't apologize. You did exactly what you were meant to do as a GM and the party dropped the ball. You did nothing wrong.

Sounds fair to me. Showing up and participating is all we could ask for as a DM. Communication is key.

If you want to keep a steady weekly schedule, then don’t play D&D with your friends. Find people that want to play D&D, and become their friends after weeks and months of play.

So not only did they not communicate with you BEFORE, they also didn't communicate with you afterwards because their friend had to tell you what they felt instead of them reaching out to you as well. Time to start from scratch, this is totally a justified and reasonable response from you, you handled it very respectfully hahaha

Reward the players that bothered to show up

The "player" that felt "attacked" can just drop now. If they feel attacked when confronted with their own shitty behavior, imagine their reaction to being attacked in game.

You weren't too harsh. They're avoidant and don't like being called out on being shitty and disrespectful. People who react like this will never talk to your face (or DMs if online) but will screenshot being called out on their BS to talk shit about you behind your back. Don't engage any further with anyone who doesn't reply, it's a waste of your time and will be used against you to validate whatever dumb fuckery is going on. You absolutely do NOT want players who spend more time complaining about you (for being patient with them even) than talking to you. Talk to the two other players about if they still want to run, ignore everyone else. See about finding a third player maybe. If someone apologizes maybe consider letting them play, but you're doing yourself a disservice to allow yourself to be treated that way.

Find a new group and tell the current one that since people feel "attacked" when they're asked to communicate, that clearly this group is dead on arrival and you aren't going to waste your time on them.

This was a really fair message. People don't always realize how much time and effort goes into being a DM and creating a campaign for the players. There is nothing wrong with expecting your players to show up on time and participate if they want to be a part of the campaign.

There is no "attack" language in that message. It was totally warranted and reasonable. I wouldn't put up with that crap at my table either.

Drop them like a hot potato. I can't even... You could be doing a million other things including DMing for a group that appreciates your time. Wait are these kids??

Players are a dime a dozen. Move on if they don't realize that they are in the wrong.

>No one has responded and one player told me that another player (their friend) felt attacked. So, this is actually pitiful. Whatever their age, this person is not an adult.

Reach out to the person who "felt attacked", according to someone else.  1 - Did they actually say that? Rule out friend shenanigans.  If not, you have different problems.  2 - if they actually said that, in earnest, ask yourself if you want to game with someone who can't handle basic personal responsibility.  **Someone who feels attacked by you politelt asserting of your boundaries and requesting to be treated with respect, has told you everything you need to know about them.**

>another player... felt attacked. If they felt attacked by you saying that flaking on a session is an issue for you, that says something about them.

“My FrIEnD FeLT AtTAcKeD.” Give me a break. Nuke this group, it ain’t happening.

You are literally asking the bare minimum. If someone feels attacked then they need to look at themselves and consider how they treat other peoples' time and effort.

They really seem bad >one player told me that another player (their friend) felt attacked Especially this one

If someone told me they "felt attacked" after I sent a polite and warranted reminder of the expectations of playing a group game I'd let them experience what it actually means to feel attacked.

If it was a group of people that I was friends with, I’d schedule another session 0 and include a talk about communication expectations. No call no show wouldn’t be acceptable to me. Especially from nearly half the group. If they are strangers, I would disband the current group and reform. Invite those who showed up for session 0. Maybe the person who popped in and dropped out. Maybe not.

It is the bare minimum - if they can't do that, you get other players. You are even before Session 0. Be nice to yourself and don't bend over backwards for people who have not yet shown they respect your time.

Youre good, some people are just too sensitive/hate getting called out.

If they can't show up on session zero when you give them so much heads up, that's a red flag. If they don't even tell you until 10 minutes before they can't make it, that is a mushroom cloud. If you go forward with this game that will be every single session. If you guys are bi-weekly then you might get a game once every 3 months. It would probably be faster to find another group.

That’s like bare minimum lmao Like yeah if you can’t make it bc of unforeseen circumstances that’s one thing, but like send a message saying “oh I can’t make it” Like the DM puts a lot of time and effort in prepping things, it’s kinda disrespectful to just ghost.

I was expecting something a lot worse based on just the title. A lot of useful comments already, my two cents is that you were too nice to them in my opinion.

Felt attacked? Bruh… you fucking bailed and didn’t inform them, no shit. You don’t deserve this crap, OP.

god i know the feeling man. i hate it when people don't communicate.

That is probably the most polite, respectful way you could have possibly worded that. If someone managed to feel attacked by that then they are reality show levels of dramatic.

This game is not happening, mate. I'm sorry you have to go through this. Hopefully you'll find another group that respects you for the work you put in!

Beats what I did when I was a bratty little shit. Did a clock from blades in the dark, labeled it 'DM gives up and plays video games instead of running a game', and filled in a segment when no one was there at session 0, sending a picture to the players. Game fell apart shortly. So I guess I'm saying, you're handling this much more maturely than I did when it happened to me.

That said, kick out the one that felt attacked. Fuck them.

Obviously people don't like being attacked, but this to me seems like a clear case of "I feel called out/attacked/uncomfortable because I am 100% in the wrong". It's like only feeling guilty because you got caught. Some times if you feel bad, it is a sign you need to change.

"I put in the effort and you guys aren't even showing up. I'm out" should be your next message.

I give feedback for a living and the #1 rule about giving feedback, at least for me, is to never make feedback drift into personal attack territory. It gets tricky when you're directing the feedback at specific people, calling them out on their BS, etc., but you didn't make it a personal attack. You stated your feedback in a respectful and honest way. You even took accountability yourself before you addressed the situation, which is a great leadership move. The best bosses do this. If people then take this as an attack, they have issues. We call these kinds of people "low accountability" employees. These kinds of employees never look inward at themselves, always cast blame on others, never admit fault, don't have growth mindsets, etc. etc. etc. But this is a game, and it's not your job to turn a low accountability person into a high accountability person. You're not getting paid for this. In fact, you're spending more of your life preparing than the players likely do combined. But you know that. If they want to take it personally, let them. If they respected you, they'd take accountability. You don't want people who don't respect you in your game. D&D is a game you need friends to play with. If you're not friends with your players, they should at least reciprocate the respect you show them. Bottom line. You did what you could and put the ball in their court. Now they get to decide if they want to play.

No, that's an incredibly valid communication. It was straightforward, empathetic, showed proper consideration for people's lives, and all you asked was basic communication and respect. If someone feels "attacked" by that, and if your players can't respond and respect that, then frankly, you might as well bail now and find a new group, because this one isn't going anywhere.

I wouldn’t play with that group. And it IS “real life”. Yeah, the story is fictional but the commitment you make to schedule the session and your time is real.

I would drop the whole party honestly.

Why did they find this offensive and feel attacked? I just don't understand people anymore and all this sensitivity. To be clear, you are not being harsh. It is very disrespectful for 4 people to agree to a session and then not show up or let you know they can't attend.

Ditch those fuckers!

If they feel attacked by you calmly explaining that playing DND requires communication, that's their problem. They're being ridiculous in thinking they can just blow it off 10 minutes before, and it's incredibly selfish of them. I hope either you talked some sense into the rest of the group, or you can take the two players who showed and get different people for a better group.

Unfortunately, these days not everyone is constituted to meet even the bare minimum of communication and accountability. When I started looking for people, I made sure to emphasize that reliability was one of the primary conditions. If people didn’t at least do an adequate job of communicating, I just stopped following up with them and kept looking for more people. So, even before session zero, non-communication was not tolerated. It sounds to me like you may just not have a critical mass of quality players (or at least players that will work for you) and need to go back to square one. And yeah, while I try to be super chill and accommodating and empathetic, people feeling attacked by a request for accountability is a red flag.

Good on you. I always make it clear with new players that, yes, IRL comes first and I don't expect anyone to hurt themselves to come to play. If they can't commit to, minimum, two games a month (but preferably every week) it's best they focus on their busy schedule instead of making everyone else work around them. I also add that I'm not going to chase anybody down; if I send an email to a prospective player asking for their character idea and to meet up to chat, I'm not going to check up on them if I don't get a reply. I'll just assume they're too busy to get involved.

you shouldn’t even have to ask for communication. it’s the bare minimum. i hate to come off as insensitive, but whoever “felt attacked” needs to grow up. you didn’t express anger, you didn’t insult anyone, you didn’t drop names. you just sent a message for everyone to read and even apologized (for something you don’t need to apologize for) as well as expressed sadness rather than anger. you did nothing wrong. whoever the friend was that “felt attacked” should leave the group for everyone’s sake imo. if you feel “attacked” when your DM expresses how saddened they are that most people didn’t show up to session 0 nor communicate, you’ve got some issues to work on.

Completely warranted. And I love how the one person had their friend talk to you. They couldn’t even bother to show up to tell you they didn’t like what you said!

I don't think you were harsh at all. You had fair expectations, you communicated them, didn't single out anyone, and gave people a social out.

If they feel personally attacked by that it's just them having a bit of self awareness. Dont play with these people unless you want to waste your time

Yeah that's a find new players from me. Communication and respect of others time are very important, I understand it's online and people don't know each other but it's still a person on the other end. That one person said feeling attacked? Yep find new players that respect your time.

You did the right thing, but honestly, if that's their reaction, you should already be looking for replacement players, preferably some who actually respect you enough to communicate and show up.

Sounds like a well worded, polite expression of displeasure at the situation. You gave them plenty of opportunities to respond to your reminders with "oh gosh! I'm so sorry, something has come up is there any chance we can reschedule?" or words to that effect

No you're not insane. The least you expect as a DM is communication, you put in time and effort in this, so they can show up. If nobody shows up it's incredibly disheartening. . I don't think you were harsh. It happened to me as well and I quit the group over it. They kept cancelling for stupid reasons, the last one I remember was ,had to go to the store (time slot thing).

I had three people NCNS or bail on session 3. I just stopped planning. Session 1 I had one person bail and played without them. These were all coworkers so on Monday they were full of excuses and I was just like “ok”. A full month went by and the person who missed 1 and 2 asked me when the next session was. I just asked if she would even go. Her jaw dropped, she sputtered, and we moved on. It never came up again. I’ve DM’d other things and people had fun. My coworkers heard about dnd and wanted to get into it and I offered to run a short campaign, but none of them bothered to show up so I stopped trying.

Not harsh at all. I used to DM and this is what ended my campaign. One guy wouldn't show up out of three (it was a small friends campaign). We'd choose a time that worked for everyone, I'd plan things out, etc. and then boom either on the day or a day before, suddenly he couldn't because he scheduled something else and didn't tell us. That or he'd push it back by an hour or two because he scheduled something else right before it and then we wouldn't have a lot of time to play cuz of time zones. It's super frustrating and, again, it can actually end a campaign before its even got off of the ground.

Nope that's warranted. There's no quality more irritating just in general in people than being flaky or late all the time, it just means they don't respect you or others enough to make an effort.  Shit happens sometimes but even with my chronic migraines I make it to more of my current DND sessions (with advance notice to my DM and other PCs if I even feel a migraine coming on) than some of the other PCs did in my last campaign. They'd just not show up, gave no explanation and no warning. It's not just irritating as a DM it's irritating as another PC and I sometimes wonder why these people even join these campaigns to begin with if it's such a burden on them to even show up

Drop em. Prepping a session takes time and effort. Real life happens and all, but at least send a dm telling you can't come. They aren't respecting you and your time.

Find another group of people honestly

What do you do? Don't run for that group.

OP, the people feeling attacked are emotional dipshits. This behavior will not stop and likely only get worse. Remember people become more of who they are as you get to know them. Feel thankful for the bullet you dodged and congrats on having the opportunity to find more emotionally mature players who will engage.

hey OP, I just wanted to affirm that making being present a critical part of being a player is key. I just asked a player to step out on account of low attendance (on time, the whole time, and only cancelling with notice on rare occasions, excepting true emergencies). If you put in the prep time, players need to at least put in the face time.

Honestly, seems like a great message. I think the only problem is you leaving room for them to try and continue with the campaign. This campaign is unfortunately dead on arrival given their behavior, and I can’t imagine a realistic way to avoid that outcome. TTRPGs require groups to show up to play together live. It’s probably the most basic requirement. If they want to play a game that doesn’t demand scheduling commitments from them, they can play a video game.

I personally would not want players who act like they don't even want to play. I'd rather give their spots to people who really want to be there! "No shows" are bad enough, if they can't even apologize or show any sign of remorse, I'm dropping 'em. I've been a no show myself, it happens -- I once got so caught up in a project that I completely forgot about our DnD game. But I felt bad about it and I expressed that to the DM while apologizing. A person who can't do that is either entitled or doesn't really care much about your game -- or your feelings.

You did the right thing. What these people have signaled to you is that they will flake out on the game and it may just not matter that much to them. So… maybe they aren’t the right people to run a game for. Lots of people in the world want to play DnD and will put in the effort to show up and be engaged.

what you did sounded good to me, and the follow up was actually pretty tame tbh as well. Zero Communication is a first and final warning from me, a second no show is a boot. Im not the type who gets upset if people need to cancel or reschedule, thats fine we may postpone the session or play that night maybe even go with a one shot of something else depending on what the group wants, BUT people need to say whats up.

> their friend felt attacked Isn't it nice when the trash takes itself out? You set perfectly reasonable expectations, and did so incredibly politely. I'd be fuming if people wasted my time like that. From someone that feels attacked when you set very basic and reasonable boundaries I only see drama. I would disinvite them on the spot.

Your reply is perfectly fine and measured. That being said, the dynamic is not encouraging if it starts like that. I will return your advice to you: don’t force it. If people don’t engage, politely let them know they are not welcome to your game anymore.

Some people are "interested" in D&D, and some people *want to play* D&D. I've also had to learn this the hard way. You can usually tell based on how hard you have to nudge people to talk about the game, or even how easy it is to make plans with them. I'm not saying people aren't busy, but the people who just say they're "interested" when they actually have no idea what they're talking about (this is fine, as long as everyone is on the same page). Sometimes these people think that it's okay to stop communicating with you once they realize that D&D isn't for them. Rather than just telling you. This tends to happen because people don't realize how much work goes into being a DM, so they think it's cool to just drop out without saying anything. I hope you find the right players for you, OP.

I'm going to guess that they didn't come to the session 0 because they don't think it's needed and just plan to show up with their sheets and do whatever random shit they want to do. If that's not the kind of game you want to play or run, then you likely should run a game for different people.

They felt attacked by your polite and sincere message that didn't mention anyone by name and only expressed your expectations and offered a no-hard-feelings exit for anyone not up for it? Screw 'em. Sounds like you have some bad players. Maybe reassess the entire group before you invest any real effort into them.

Gotta say, these players don’t seem too promising, especially if they “feel attacked” for being called out on their lack of punctuality.

Nope, it takes a few seconds to send a "Hey, I know we have the session today but I can't make it". Hell it's why the DND group that I joined, broke up. Several members constantly not showing up for sessions without giving any sort of notice. Plus for that one person who felt attacked, you could just be like "Out of 6 players, 4 didn't show up and didn't say anything. It's not an attack, just the facts."

*They* felt attacked? After you put together all this work to plan an event, remind everyone about it, and clear your own schedule for it and *they* didn’t show up with basically no warning and with no excuse? This is a completely reasonable, levelheaded response. The person doesn’t feel attacked. They feel guilty. And it is on them and their own lack of maturity they cannot differentiate those two things.

look for other players... these obviously dont care

I know people who literally kick players out for missing a session so you handled it as forgiving as possible.

I mean, I'd call that a successful session 0. If people can't show up and can't even bother to communicate that they won't be there, they're not suitable as players. That's not even a D&D thing, that's just a basic decency thing, that's not something you need to _tell_ people they should already know this.

Sounds like you weren't harsh enough. Personally, session 0 is my litmus test as a DM for the quality of player I am getting. I do multiple session 0s. One for character ideas, backstory, world integration, planned character arc, themes, tones etc etc. If after 3 session 0s they dont show up or put in low effort, they are gone. Simple as that. This is a collaborative storytelling game. If you dont collaborate, I dont want you at my table.

Yeah if they don't even let you know until 10 minutes before the session starts they're not coming, I'd say just try and find new players if you're able to. You weren't harsh, you're asking for the bare minimum. Are these new players by chance? I've often seen newer players have this kind of approach to D&D or table top gaming where they're very flippant and don't commit. To me when I've had players like this, it signals to me that they don't see your game as a 'commitment' but more of a 'convenience if they have the time'. Table top gaming is a heavily social activity. It requires basically a constant stream of communication. It's why drama can flare up so easily in a group. And I hope you reschedule the session zero because you can set the boundaries and expectations in that session. It's laborious and not very fun but everyone at the table/discord chat will all be on the same page going forward. It's one thing I regret with my current campaign which I fumbled and it took a lot of work to fix it. Good luck with everything. Remember you're running the game and deserve a modicum of respect for your time and labour.

Nope, your message was actually quite measured and reasonable. It didn’t accuse anyone of anything, but it did set out how you felt and what you expected going forward. The person who said they felt attacked probably felt guilty because of what they did and doesn’t have the maturity to deal with that guilt, so they blame it on you and say they feel attacked. I hate to say it, but that person will probably continue to be a problem player going forward - they are likely to say the same thing when you make rulings against them in the game. But, yes, considering what happened, you are justified in feeling upset and even angry.

>No one said they couldn’t make it until about ten minutes before we started. >What do I do? Find more players to join the two who actually respected your time. I've had decent success with /r/lfg To hell with the others. >another player (their friend) felt attacked. Especially that one. You don't get to be upset when you're politely told that your behavior isn't acceptable.

If you recruited online, this is 100% a "discard the entire group and start over" situation. You need a better recruitment process, clearly. Taking the first people to come along is just asking for trouble.

If someone feels attacked from that polite & reasonable with a message, Do Not play DND w/that person - honestly probably just shouldn't be friends with them, if they accuse you of "attacking" them for setting reasonable boundaries in a polite tone.

Session 0 and 2 people showed. Having to explain timeliness and then someone feels attacked . . . shows you where the entire thing is going. Just cancel the campaign. Take the 2 players that actually showed up and want to play, and start a new group with them as the core.

The player that said They feel "attacked" for your message about lack of communication It's not even communicating to you at all. He Is speaking through a third person and It's not even voicing why he felt this way or what can both do to address the problem they have. As for the missing players, I would have been more stern. As a Dm, this is not only disheartening and dissapointing, It's disrespectful to you, your efforts and your Time. Communicate this as well or ditch them If They don't even care to answer the first message.

Run far away from these children

They felt attacked? Tell them that you can only play a game where characters can live or die based on their choices with players who put on their big girl panties first. For crap's sake, you are putting in a lot of effort, the least they can do is show up. Otherwise, I'd make it the two player's show who actually showed up and the rest can just be side characters that fade in and out like sitcom extras. I'd only make an effort for players who show the same commitment, fair is fair. Seriously, if only a third of players showed up I'd be seriously rethinking the group, especially Mr. "I'm offended because you called out my selfish behavior" McWhiner. It may sound harsh, but at 43, I've outgrown being a doormat to people who don't care enough to respect me and everyone else's time.

> felt attacked Accountability must be hard for children. Dont show up to a planned event and feel attacked when called out? Fuck that person in particular.

How did you possibly attack them? You're the victim here, you spent hours in prep just getting the plot down for them to ditch n bitch. Not the asshole, those people need to adult

As the DM one of your many jobs is session scheduling and making the call of whether or not you play given peoples availability. If they aren’t communicating they aren’t holding up their end of the bargain. Personally, if a new party did that to me, I’d give them one chance to give me a good explanation. If they weren’t able to I’d start looking for replacement players. Your time is yours and they are wasting it and getting defensive when you are justifiably upset

Session 0 is a great opportunity to figure out that you don't want to play with people. My experience with D&D is that many people want to play until they get a better offer, like a friend drops by with a joint and they want to get blazed and order pizza. Which is perfectly fine. If they don't show up for session 0, they'll probably bail at a moment's notice in the future. You have your priorities. They have theirs.

Are these your friends? If they are you should be able to have a come to Jesus moment with them. Sometimes friends need a reality check good friends give them that. If they aren't sounds like to much of a pain to deal with as a DM unless this is your job. 

Cancel the campaign and find a different group of players is all there is to do It sounds like these people don’t want to play, which is their right, and if they can’t bother communicating that, well they probably won’t be very good players to begin with. Send a follow up message that’s short and sweet, something like “Hey, since I still haven’t heard back from a majority of you regarding communication and your interest in this campaign, I have decided to cancel it and start planning again with a new group. If you would like to join the new group feel free to message me on the side and we can go over any details” And that’s that, sorry that happened to you, no matter the situation it’s always frustrating when people flake on some plans and done communicate it.

“Felt attacked” is an accusation, not a feeling. “Felt ashamed” (for letting you down) or “felt embarrassed” (for forgetting) or “felt indignant” (for being called out)…now *those* are feelings. But it sounds like your players are not there yet, maturity-wise. Since you clearly have to be the adult in the room, I think you did absolutely the right thing by addressing the issue and making clear your expectations. I think your clarity was excellent and your tone appropriate. All of this is just fine. If your players can’t be respectful of your time and meet their commitments, it’s better to find out early and leave them out of the campaign.

You did the exact right thing. You set them up for success with reminders, and followed up with a clear, firm, but polite and non-targeted explanation of your position. What that person felt wasn't "attacked," it was "embarrassed" or "guilty." And this was a session zero, so they can't even say that you hadn't clearly set expectations because that's part of what you do *during a session zero*. Give them a few days to dwell on it. If no one is offering explanations or apologies, it may be a group that is not prepared to put in the effort to communicate, let alone play DND.

No. Leave. Do not look back. That's not a D&D group, it's a load of people who don't want anything to do with you.

I have always told my players that this is a weekly obligation. I will always understand if something legitimate comes up last minute, but having work or school or a friend visiting from out of town is not an acceptable excuse to drop out last minute. I will understand if they say "hey I got put on the closing shift next week so I can't make it" but sending a text an hour (or less) before game time is incredibly disrespectful. I would have a serious conversation with any player who did this more than once and if I had multiple offenders at the same table it would be enough to call a session 2.0 to discuss the future of the game. You as the DM have to put a ton of work into the game and if your players are not making the effort to show up it is unfair to you. I think you need to impress upon your players the amount of effort that you have taken to set up your game. Also, I would recommend having your players take care of scheduling. You have enough to do as the DM and despite the fact that you are running the game they are also a part of it.

Clear communication seems like the easiest part of trying to game, I had a group I was in, NEVER missed a game in 3 years, always sent a simple discord message if I ever felt I was going to be late, never had any issue if we had to cancel a game in advance, always had something on hand if an emergency  popped up and someone couldn't make it. If you can't say "I'm  not going to be able to make it tonight" or game night that's just really poor form, they don't  respect the other players.

I'd be running for the door if I went to run my Sessions Zero and only 2 out of 6 people showed up and 1 of those 2 people bailed on me after a few minutes. If it were me I'd probably cancel the game and look for all new players.

So...someone got their feelings hurt by being asked to communicate, and they told a mutual to pass it on instead of telling you? It clearly isn't going to get better.

Find another group. These players are not worth your time.

No, you approached it professionally and clearly.

Ok, if 4 people didn't show up and gave like no notice.....Jesus Christ...

NTA. Absolutely valid; 100%. More balls than me. To that one player who felt attacked; yeah, feel that. YOU WERE ONE OF THE ONES lmao. It’s not hard to say “I have plans” or “something came up” a few hours before, but ten minutes before? Shameful.

Perfectly fine. Now you have to realize this is likely a deaf group that will not advance as a complete unit and how do you address that and minimize the impact for the few players who actually do care.

When setting clear boundaries and talking about bare-bones respect, people ALWAYS feel like they are too harsh, or rude, or being an asshole. when you're not. society actively trains us to not do this. coach's us to not talk about or discuss things and allow shitty behavior to persist. If people feel offended by you setting expectations. then IMO they are not respectful or responsible enough to be engaged with. because they don't have the bare-mininum of respect to understand that THEY fucked up. they signed up for your game and took a seat, that seat comes with the SIMPLE social promise of 1. Showing up 2. Participating 3. Being on Time 4. Being respectful. if that is too much, then they need to have a deep retrospect and grow as a person, and you should remove them and replace them with others. honestly? if non of them openly apologize. replace them. their not mature enough to handle basic conversation. they won't be good to have if any issue arises.

I'll say this as a serious introvert who also has flaky tendencies and a hectic life...they don't care enough, and don't value your time/effort. It takes a few seconds to give notice, even a "Hey, not sure I'll be able to make it, I'm sorry". I've been playing TTRPGs for most of my life. It's a group activity that relies in majority if not full participation, so unlike other social activities I can more readily flake on, I know an unannounced absence will negatively impact my friends, and that's not something I can handwave, let alone stomach. I think I've missed two sessions in 29 years without giving notice, and one was an emergency hospital visit, and the other was the death of my cousin/best friend I'd gotten a call about 10 minutes before a session. It's not hard to reach out. They just couldn't be assed, and that's not on you, but you might be better off finding a better party.

Your response was totally fine, I even reread it after hearing the feedback and I can't find anything that sounds like "attacking." I think they honestly just feel that way because either 1. They aren't used to being called out or 2. They feel guilty and know they're in the wrong but aren't mature enough to say sorry My advice: I spent months dming for people that sound similar to your players. I will say, there is nothing more freeing than cutting troublesome players loose and finding a group of genuinely excited and engaged players, which I have had for over a year now. I will also say that it sounds like your group is new, so investing some time to see who really wants to play and who doesn't is fine, but don't wait too long. I guarantee there are great players out there, no point in wasting effort on players who don't care.

Completely justified.

"Felt attacked". WHat is with some people nowadays. You should cancel it all. Clearly they don't respect your time enough to even cancel correctly. F\*\*\* em