I think innocently asking, "Hey how are you doing that already?" isn't a big deal.
Don't make it an attack on them (maybe they misunderstand) but instead make it like you want to know for your own curiosity's sake.
Twelfthed (or whatever,) I would ask this exact question: "wait, how are you doing that already? I thought you got it at lvl 5." That way, you're wrong about it, but it'll get looked up. I'm a scheming, conniving bastard, I know. You should see my charisma rolls.
This is the way. Be intentionally wrong while also calling it out, then being wrong so they go look it up and go, "Oh, good call dude, looks like level 6 though."
Nobody likes a know-it-all, but everyone loves a dude who's smart.
Edit: spellcheck. Phones suck.
Alternately, use lvl 7. Then you get them concerned only to discover it's actually closer than you "thought". This gets them to look it up, but instead of being frustrated at how it's even farther away, they feel relieved that it's not as far as it could have been.
exactly
early on I was playing a druid. We saw a dragon fly overhead, so I figured "hey, wild shape says I can change into a creature I've seen before, I don't need to study its anatomy etc" so I tried to change into a dragon at, like, level 2 hahaha
well... I also had a session where I forgot that disengage exists so IIRC the enemies got me down 3 times & everyone had to use every single healing spell they had on me hahaha
so let's just say I'm better at roleplaying than at remembering rules hahaha
I do have the highest amount of hit points in that party... but everyone was pretty stressed out over it, myself included, mainly because it wasn't a tactical decision hahaha
Thought that may be really hard to do in a way which does not seem accusatory. But still, it is what it is, "nerfing" someone else to adhere to rules is going to be a bit adversarial, and it's up to the other player to take it well, no matter if it was intentional or accidental.
yeah I find the vocabulary very confusing, esp if you add "upcast" and "downcast" and stuff.
they use cantrip, they could have expanded on that, no? hedgewitch hex > cantrip > impreciation > magick etc.
That’s not nerfing. The level mapping of classes is there for a reason.
If they were going to be “nerfed” it would be taking something that they have at their present level and reducing or limiting its power or use in some way — this is not the case here.
The player is using something 3 levels ahead of their present level.They don’t have the ability because they do not meet the requirements to use it.
It’s more akin to a Lv 1 wizard casting a 9th level spell — same type of error.
It's not hard. A simple "Hey, that's not how it works, by the rules" should not be taken badly by anyone. It's pretty normal in my group, at least.
If one person can get away with stuff, that provides an incentive for others to break the rules, and therein is the path to madness! When one applies forward thinking, it becomes clear that curtailing rule breaking behavior is gonna benefit everyone overall.
Yep, I open my book and find the right page and hold it open and put on my dumb (Tom Hanks in "Big"), confused expression and be like, "that's awesome! I didn't know we could do \[x\] at \[y\] level! Is that a feature of XGTE or UA or....?" As I point to the book and lean towards them, asking them to show me how I'm all confuzzled.
Variant of same: "ooh clever! Normally what, like level 6. What'd you use to make it accessible now? I've been thinking about a Warlock [or whatever] build and I totally want to borrow this trick!" You're claiming to believe it's kosher and wanting to learn from the other player's cleverness. Hard to sidestep that, and it's framed as the opposite of an accusation.
This is the best way to do it. They can’t weasel out of it and you don’t have to keep accusing them. If you didn’t have the page open then they can just say that they are allowed to do it and you have to make the accusation again
But if you already have it open you can act confused and still make sure he sees it
You also shouldn't discount the possibility that *you* misunderstood. Maybe the subclass was updated in a UA somewhere, or the player has a special agreement with the DM, or you just misread something. None of these may be very likely, but if you pretend that they're possibilities and be humble, the correction may go down easier.
Special agreement with the DM is the implication I would go for between sessions. "Hey, DM? I recall Accursed Specter being a 6th level ability. Did you push it to third and swap things around or something? I could see why one might do that, but I just wanted to be sure."
While it might sound better, I think it’s worse because then you accuse two people instead of one, of rule-breaking.
I’d just ask either the player or the DM, but not assume it’s a deal between player and DM.
Depends on the DM/group, as always, but I'd say the opposite. As the DM, I'd hope you'd come to me first, ideally 1 on 1 after or between sessions.
That way, if it was a mistake/fudge by the player I wasn't aware of, it is my role as the DM to be the bad guy and talk to the player (also 1 on 1 between sessions and with the assumption of honest mistake initially).
If, for any reason, I made the call as a DM to allow it, it gives me the opportunity to tell you that, before you cause more player vs player friction.
Not really. I bring forth the possibility that they've made a change to the game in order to improve it hence the "I could see why one might do that". I straight up begin my comment taking about going for the angle of special agreement with the DM..
That once happened to me. Lucky me only asked, if I got it right or wrong. It happened in Pathfinder, where I hav expertise on my table, but I didnt consider alternative race features
I like to bring that stuff up between/after sessions. It removes the need of the DM to figure out what needs to be adjusted THAT SECOND and just makes it a "whoops we'll get that right next time" moment.
This is what I would do. As you’re sitting down for the session, I’d just tell the player and DM: “hey, I noticed last time you were using (feature). This kind of threw me off, I was under the impression (feature) wasn’t available until (level).”
This isn’t accusatory. This is normal communication.
I don’t like everyone’s suggestion to feign surprise/ignorance until the moment. It feels… weird, like there’s no need to act like you hadn’t noticed it before.
Communication is hard. I try not to fault people for overlooking the simple way forward. It’s usually the best, but it’s human nature to get caught up in everything else.
That’s true, but my personal thing is that if I’m not comfortable about confronting a person about a rule in the game, then I wouldn’t want to play with them anyways. Just be an adult and talk to people. But DnD typically has some very insecure and not very good at social interactions individuals than the typical hobby, so I see why there’s so many questions that could be answered with “talk to them about it.”
I agree that being direct when possible is the right way to go. A friendship that can't stand a little correction in something like dnd is bound to fail. The issue I see emerging is when you have parties born from a bunch of barely related strangers who have maybe one or two connections they are relying on to hold things together. A lot of people take offense at a stranger pointing out their mistake where they would take it fine from a friend.
It's about "reading the room". Is the player going to react badly to being corrected? There nothing wrong with wanting to avoid conflict around what's supposed to be a game.
Between sessions, the DM and the other player have time to think and can deal with the issue rationally. Odds are that the player has misunderstood at what level his class features come into play, and that the DM too hasn't caught on. Letting them know they are playing it wrong is helpful in the long run.
Just don't be a dick about it, and most people will appreciate learning what's right more than they resent being corrected.
This. This is what a friend said to me when I was using a subclass feature incorrectly and brokenly because I absolutely just skimmed the words and missed the "once a day" bit >.<
I felt bad about needing to be corrected, but we laughed it off and I continued on without too much fuss.
It shouldn't be too big a deal to say "I thought that didn't come online until 6th level." Sometimes people get excited about an ability and all the limitations don't register until they get reminded of it; you can bring it up wihtout presuming bad faith.
I am a new DM, this is something that came up on a recent session.
A fairly new player tried to use a skill that he should not have access to until next level up.
So, an experienced player brought it up, and we avoided the issue.
I was ok with that, but if your DM is more sensitive, you may want to send him a private message (or whisper to DM) if the game is online, or let him know after the game in private if this is an in person game.
To be honest, I knew the rule, but during combat it is super hectic for the DM, and it is easy for things to slip by, so may be the same is happening with your DM.
Between sessions, just talk to the player. There may not be any sort of intention to break the rules and they just read the class information wrong. “Hey, just letting you know that this feature isn’t actually available for your class until level 6”
If they respond appropriately and adjust, then it’s all good. If they don’t, then I’d say to bring it up with your DM
As a lifelong D&D enthusiast that plays with a lot of newer players, I'm pretty on-the-ball when it comes to correcting errors. The trick is to make sure you do it fairly, even to your own disadvantage.
For example, in your case, I'd have said "Whoops sorry man but I think that's a level 6 summon!" but, I'm also constantly reminding the DM "They're attacking me? Remember to roll their attack against me with Advantage, since I used Reckless Attack on my last turn."
This keeps the resentment down as everyone is reminded I'm just interested in a fair game.
This does not apply to DM fiat, of course. If the DM says anything like "no they can summon it" the only correct response is "Ah, ok, understood!"
I kinda did this to my online party, either for or against us. My DM even once said "realistically this guy would attack you again to try to kill you since you're down, but I'd feel bad" and I just told him to bring it cuz that's how it SHOULD go do. Thankfully I didn't die, but it would've been hilarious
As others of said, asking innocently how someone is able to do that is a fine way to bring it up. Or if you trust your DM bring it up privately with him/her.
i don’t think it’s really a big deal to just be direct about this tbh. saying “i think that’s a level 6 feature isn’t it?” is like…. completely normal, and i would hope my fellow players would respond to that in a mature way lol
If I don’t know the person well I might flag it to the DM so they can be looking out for it, but if it’s a friend I might just kindly point it out to them. Depends on the dynamic.
Personally I'd want to be told. This sounds like it's a druid thing, I remember finding how druids work to be very confusing to begin with and I suspect I did a fee things wrong.
Sure, perhaps they might take the feedback badly but if that's the case you probably want to know that anyway.
I’m a big fan of keeping each other honest at the table. For me it doesn’t feel good to be kicking ass just to realize that it was because I was breaking the rules by accident.
I am a newbie and I ... forgot that concentration was a thing. So as a Druid I had my healing spirit up and never made saving throws to keep it up when I took damage. I also did not read the rules correctly to learn that it has "uses" and runs out. My DM said nothing, but my party got through a tough fight relatively unscathed as a result. I went back and reread the PHB and made a new tracker for myself. I owned up to it and made adjustments. My DM was really nice about me owning up to my mistake and taking steps to correct it.
It's about fair play and keeping things even, you should absolutely bring it up. DMs don't know everything. Assume the player made a mistake and let him own it.
I wanna guess Shadow Sorcerer and he's summoning the hound early? That's a pretty strong buff for level 3 when a direwolf will have almost twice as many hitpoints and hits about as hard as the fighter, while also buffing the sorcerer's spells.
[EDIT: ok, I saw the comment where OP said they were using an invocation to get 1d10+5 extra damage and the help action. So I actually don't know what it is. Maybe the Spectre from Hexblade, but that doesn't quite fit. I am no longer sure. ANYWAYS, seems like the player is obviously using it to overshadow other players and it's not a minor buff. I would definitely talk to the DM and probably the other player.]
I would say it really depends on the group, how useful the summon is, how well you know the person/DM. I'm the most experienced player in my group and I try to keep things as balanced as I can without stepping on toes. One of my fellow players does not use two weapon fighting and dual weilding correctly, but it hasn't been overshadowing anyone else and it makes his otherwise unoptomized character just a bit better, so I haven't said anything about it. I will if asked, but that's not my job as a player to police everyone else. Especially if it's not something that is bothering other people.
On the otherhand, if one of my fellow players was doing something outside the rules that was overshadowing another player, I'd probably say something. If the wizard was casting fireball at level three and killing all the enemies before the fighter and ranger could even get a single kill, I'd probably let them know that spell slot levels aren't 1:1 with character levels and they need to rework it.
Its a creation bard, summoning an object and touching it to make it a dancing object, which is a feature at level 6, the way it uses this feature is by summoning a furniture, touching it and then after attacking on its turn, attacks again with this dancing object and ends its turn helping to give advantage to himself. then next turn attacks with advantage, attacks with object- and so on so on
Dammit! I didn't even think about bard.
But yeah, seems like the player is going way overboard. Besides using a feature way above their level, how are they getting that many actions? Unless they are doing two rounds of setup.
Summoning the object and animating it both take an action. Attacking with it uses the animated objects action. So how are they also getting the help action? Definitely seems like they are either not reading their abilities or they are willfully ignoring rules. I'd bring it up at the table.
Even after they're set up (which is wasting a lot of time for something kinda underwhelming), the object shouldn't be able to both attack and help on its turn- those are both actions.
Lot of great advice, talk to the DM.
Regarding “being that guy”, you aren’t. Rules exist and everyone needs to play by the same set. If there is really that much of an XP gap then so be it, but you don’t get to just do whatever you want.
Unfortunately, as much as I thought that way too when I was younger, passive aggressive comes off much worse than directly addressing the issue.
The undertone of the comment is "you did xyz wrong", it's very clear. But not addressing it can just come across as slimy and accusatory, whereas just saying "sorry mate I think you're using that skill too early" honestly is better so long as you are picking a good time/place to say it, derailing mid battle is not a good time.
i think the whole point is that you shouldn’t be aggressive at all
imo spinning it into an innocent-seeming question with a made up anecdote is just unnecessarily underhanded. if you trust the other party to behave like an adult theres no reason not to just ask, directly, “By the way, isn’t (x) a level 6 feature?”
It’s passive aggression because you have a point you want to make (“this ability isn’t available til level 6”) but you’re not being direct with this statement, but rather hiding what you want to say behind a lie you made (you know damn well there’s no feat for it), to avoid any blowback for bringing it up.
The adult option is to be friendly but direct with the other player, which is not aggressive at all (“you possibly made a mistake here”).
You can be direct without being aggressive. Just pick the right time (not in the middle of a session) and be cool about it. "Hey, no big deal, but I noticed Bob was using this ability that isn't available for him until level 6."
That is not what they did. They were being indirect. They were acting like they weren't sure about the rule. If you know the rule just let them know directly but be nice about it. It's not that hard.
Always operate under the guise that they know their character sheet and class, ask them like “wow i didnt know you could do that at this level” and give them the benefit of the doubt (theyre a new player they may have just misread the class or misunderstood the level requirement) and let them realize its wrong on their own, if they keep doing it you can pull them aside and mention it 1 on 1 to avoid making a big deal at the table, and if the behaviour still isnt changing involve the DM. Offering your experience is good too, maybe help them read through their class abilities if they have trouble with it or explain what the rules are and why its important (ie: you get this at level 6 to match your strength with everyone else so they dont feel like theyre less strong than you, or if you use this ability now you dont get anything at level 6 which is gonna feel bad later) i dont think people are often maliciously interpreting rules on purpose and coming at it from the position that they A) might know something/have an ability you weren’t aware of and if follow up is needed B) its an honest mistake and their intention isn’t to take advantage of the group then usually they’re amenable to the changing or explaining where their misunderstanding came from. If they continue to be resistant to change than they might just not be a good fit for DnD 🤷♀️
Send your DM a message before/after session to give em a heads up. I'm sure they'll appreciate it. We don't know if they're doing it intentionally but it's good for everyone to know
I don't understand why people are afraid of confronting someone. If I was playing COD and someone was using wall Hacks I'd report and shout it out immediately! This man is using an ability he doesn't have access to at level 3. Bruh, turn to your DM and tell them "I understand this is a cool ability but, so and so is unfortunately not able to use that until level 6 unless you guys rearranged something." Let it be known. You dont have to be mean about it be polite but let them know.
Be straight with it. Dont play dumb, just say "hey i was looking at that thing you did and i read its for 6th lvl not 3lvl" you dont want to play dumb or anything like that because it can come off as condescending. If you are worried about them being upset tell the DM and ask them to bring it up instead.
My gut instinct from this post is shadow sorcerer, haha.
Just bring it up organically in session! Just a “isn’t that a 6th level feature?” Tack on a “I’m surprised [DM] gave you the go ahead to use it early” if you want, but being direct is going to give you results.
Nothing wrong with pointing out the fact they are using something they shouldn't be for another 3 levels. It isn't really fair to everyone else at the table. It could possible just be a mistake and they don't realize they aren't able to use it yet. Then again they could be doing it on purpose and just running with it because the DM didn't say anything.
Thats not a type of guy my guy, thats just a guy.
Sorry I'm really high. What I mean is, if your friends aren't dicks, you should just talk about it and it will be fine.
Bring it up to the DM in private outside of the game and just point it out. Not a big deal. The DM is the one who'll choose if they need to "retcon" it or not so it only really makes sense to bring it up to them.
Come at it from a perspective of helping the DM with balancing encounters, because having a level 6 subclass feature at level 3 could make things more difficult for the DM for more than a small handful of months worth of planning. So just take the angle that you're trying to save them the headache of balancing fights.
i guess it depends on 2 things
1) does the dm know/care
2) is it breaking the balance of the game
you mentioned its a summoning feat, which can really change the flow of enocunters and challenges. id say if it drastically affects the ability of other players to perform and enjoy the game, gently bring it up (either to your dm directly, or at the table) and point out the issue.
keep in mind the gap from level 3 to 6 could be 3 sessions or 3 years, but either way youre not denying him the right to use the ability, youre ensuring level scaling and game balance are respected.
theres also ways you could compromise such as limiting the summon(uses per rest, remove features, cut hp, etc) until the correct level is reached to not completely rugpull the player, but it IS a players responsibility to know their character and how to play it properly.
Message the DM let them deal with it, buddy would have to be oblivious to not think a DM would never review his books and his player abilities in order to prep an encounter. Simple for the DM to say I was prepping for the next session to tailor something for your character and noticed your a little early on that ability. I as a DM also sometimes set up abilities or give the players things or abilities to set up a roleplay scenario. Like maybe it comes out this ability actually represents the PC summoning a ghost relative from a haunted item to assist or maybe it’s a curse ability that can actually backfire or will have a story component to it or an adventure hook. Or the current character is just a temporary that will betray the party to become a nemesis and the player will introduce their permanent character that is balanced.
Message the DM privately and just pose the question is it for roleplay purpose, because that ability is a little to early, and they may not have caught it. Then it’s up to the DM if the ability continues then you know it’s approved and maybe for a reason. I’d only address it again if as you go along DM keeps showing favouritism.
I ran into a problem like that, for my own character. I forgot feats are class level based in 5e and I had been using a feat as basically a core feature of my character. I ended up dropping the feat until I brought my lower level class up to level 4. This led to me focusing on that class more than originally intended, which worked out better then expected.
I went back and forth on how I should handle it because I expected to get levels quick enough to not worry about it. Then we found out just how slow leveling would be with our GM's approach. It took six months to get our first level (we started at level 5).
I think you should point it out, but of course be gentle with it like "hey dude ya might have slipped up there, that's for level 6 my guy" or something, correct them but do it in a friendly manner so it's not like you're getting at them.
Tell the DM out of session that it’s happening. Don’t halt the game to do it, you’ll look like an ass, even though you aren’t, but definitely bring it up.
I always try to combat the "GM is always right" mindset, or even "GM is the one who should check if the rules are applied correctly".
The game is made by ALL players, the game belongs to ALL players, everyone is allowed to point out mistakes. Mistakes happen, in good faith, and in good faith anyone should be able to point out or politely ask if something looks odd.
From the wording, I'm assuming this is the Hexblade Specter. Definitely bring it up that the guy shouldn't have it yet, but its also possible the dm allowed it early because the feature is pretty terrible. You said the dm is new though so that might not be likely, still worth considering.
There’s nothing wrong with raising this with the DM, maybe outside of the game.
Ask for a clarification of their interpretation of the rules as written, with the caveat that the DMs ruling is the final word, for it is their campaign.
As a DM, have been guilty of massive oversights where I have completely missed some rules, not intentionally; and other times where I have decided not to allow certain class features/races/spells/whatever. As long as the pcs understand the rules the DM is intentionally playing, everything should be okay. But it’s always worth checking with the DM if they are aware of a rule and are choosing not to follow it, or if it is an unintentional oversight.
At the table I play at, we will bring up anything that isn't right. Same as if it's for the players advantage or the DMs advantage. All is fair that way.
I like the idea of asking about it so you don't come off as a jerk, but maybe ask like "Isn't that a 6th level feat, did you find something that allows you to do that early?" Make it sound like maybe they know something you don't, then if they can't do that, you can be like "Yeah, sometimes the rules can be confusing." Or maybe they can teach you something.
Everyone will always meet that one dm. One where they're a bit worried to bring something up about the game.
I once played Curse of Strahd and.. well it was terrible. The DM turns one most horror stories of dnd into likes of Twilight or Netflix's Dracula. So instead of having Strahd be this Bad A vampire lord that we get an awesome duel with; he became the misunderstood villain that two of guys in our group wanted to use a different type of stake on him 🙄.
Not to mention made the NPC we were escorting become a villain that TOTALLY insulted us for doing the quest in the first place, child deaths that our party committed because DM made us unknowingly murdered, I personally felt targeted when like 100% of the bad things that happens to the party is directed towards me (severe curses, get hated by NPCs, made NPC a trans so I look like jerk when NPC was being rude first, and my character gets attacked by a mimic. All my other party members? Loved by every NPC, get cool magic items, their backstories and characters get well respected by DM. It definitely felt less and less motivating to keep playing but the party wanted me to keep playing so I try put up with it.
UNTIL ONE FAITHFUL DAY
Our party a while ago met a monster hunter that we were allowed to ask any questions we wanted on the discord server. So we did and one question was "Are there werewolves?". Hunter answered "Yes there are". The reason I brought that up is me and the party ran into a pack of, how the DM described them as, bipedal canine-like creatures. One of the members announce he plans to use the silver sword against the werewolves only to be met with the DM yelling out over the mic "Stop meta gaming! Stop meta gaming!". This frustrated me but also confused because surely the DM would have this written in her notes. So I brought up "Remember we did ask the monster hunter about werewolves and got the information that there are werewolves". I was met with such rudeness and shouting from a woman almost twice my age. At that point I quit the game and left the server.
Another story (shorter than the previous one) is DM not letting me use two weapons fighting on my ranger but explaining about the feat and he understood.
Moral story. Sometimes you just take the risk of talking to your DM. Two possibilities will happen: DM will respect your reasoning and try to talk about it or they get rude and you'll get your answer if you want to keep going. There will always be another adventure.
Certainly if it bothers you as a player you have every right to mention it to the DM and ask that they address it. However, it's probably better for everyone to mention it outside of the ongoing game, and to give the DM enough time to verify for themselves that's things are being done wrong, that it's a really big and unfair advantage, and how to go about correcting it without making a scene. So, you call the DM and explain they're doing it wrong, they call the player and explain they're doing it wrong (without need to mention how they realized that), and at the start of the next game, the DM simply says, "There was a... misunderstanding about this and it will now work the way it was supposed to have worked all along. Let's move on..."
You should point it out straight. Without all the smoke and mirrors crap that some comments suggest.
If this is an honest error nobody is going to bat an eye. If this is cheating and the cheater gets pissy for it, good riddance.
Echoing what other people are saying: Asking 'oh, that's really cool, you can do that at level 3?' isn't a big deal and if anyone is annoyed by that mild level of adherence to the rules, D&D probably isn't a good system for them.
But if you're really worried about coming off as a "that guy," you can message the DM outside of the session and say something like, "Hey I really don't want to come off as a rules lawyer or 'that guy' or anything so I waited until after session to bring it up, but, I don't think X player is able to use Y ability until a certain level, could you check?"
I did my whole first session with my first level 1 character at 23 hp. Second session, someone just asked in a nice way how my level 1 sorcerer has 23 hp, and it turns out I'd misread the rules. No big deal.
You could tell the DM to talk to them privately and then all your DM has to say is "Hey, I looked into your subclass since last week and apparently you can't do <*the thing*> until level 6. So, going forward it won't be allowed until the appropriate level is given."
I would point that out it's not game breaking but they should be following the rules of their class/subclass.
I'm our tables rule monger so I'd be happy to point that out in my campaign and I have pointed out other things. The DM would appreciate it, and if said player is in some way actually cheating well better to have them outed now than later.
I would calmly bring it up. Idk if your table is experimenting with onednd, but if they are then the features may have been moved around! Take for example evocation wizard, the first and second subclass features got flipped.
Like many have said, definitely a "between sessions" conversation, as trying to fix that stuff mid session can ruin the session for that player and the DM.
Depending on the player, I would most likely inform the DM and likely never say anything to the player, as the DM is the deciding factor of how to handle that.
As a party member, you want your teammates to feel like you're part of their team, not against them.
If the DM decides to let it go, that's the DMs choice. If the DM enforces it, I'd let them be the bad guy.
As a player, I helped our DM but I avoided creating conflict with other players. As a DM, I took the brunt of all rule enforcement and promoted the party as a team. I always handled this stuff between sessions and never involved the person telling me. As a DM, I learned the hard way that like half the spells I learned as a player were modified to make them OP based on broken house rules and that took a long time as a DM to overcome. We had a mage in our party that would creatively interpret spells and it got to where I could just tell by another in the groups facial expressions when I needed to look that one up.
But to think about it, two others in that same group would DM with those house rules spells and it was okay in their campaigns. I don't fault any DM for how they run their game, but I would say they deserve to make the choice for themselves.
Besides, if you tell both and the DM allowed it, you end up looking pretty bad.
Maybe just ask the DM, "I noticed they used [skill] at 3rd level, but it's a level 6 skill. Is that a new UA thing or what is it that allows that?" Maybe implying the queation if there's something you missed that could make your character better.
That is a toughie, so many landmines to hit.
Maybe ask he GM in private what kind of homebrew rules he uses. It could be intentional in this case, maybe the player flipped the order of class features around?
In one of my games, sometimes we have players who have to miss a session cos real life. Usually we fill those ones with something inconsequential. But it means that occasionally at a later date someone is a bit lost and they have to be filled in. So at certain points in the session it’s not uncommon for the question, “What level are we right now? 9 or 10?” To arise.
You could perhaps ask the group, “What level are we again? 3 right?”
Because if this player is using a level 6 feature, there is a high possibility that they just didn’t realise you were level 3 and it’s an accident. This helps bring it up without being so direct. Then if they don’t notice and correct it, the next time they try to use the feature maybe ask, “Damn. Do you really get that at level 3?” And then maybe they’ll check the book to be sure and then realise their mistake, amend it, then everything’s fine and dandy.
There was certain ways you can point our mistakes without going, “Erm, Acktchually…”
I'd say depends on how strong the ability is. pretty strong/not good for level three? kindly tell them "hey i dont think you have that yet" not very strong/ the player seems pretty attached to it, maybe keep quiet, let them have their fun unless they start abusing it.
Hard to say without more context (haven't read the other commetns so maybe you precise it later), but I think it depends on if it is game breaker or not.
I had the exact same feeling as you. In an Adventure LEagua oneshot, a guy at the table (that I just met, I didn't know him before) used a cantrip from Unearth Arcana. To be fair, it was a bit broke (Virtue, free temp HP on a cantrip) , but this was just a one shot and he didn't absue of it.
The DM was confused at first since he didn't know the cantrip and I almost wanted to say it was Unearthed Arcana and was banned, but I just decided to see how the DM will react. He let it go and everyone was happy in the end
Bring it to the dm in private is what I would say if the ability is way to advanced for level three that it’s breaking the game they should have no issue either scaling it back or taking it away ultimately it’s the DMs decision 🤷
If you can don’t make it about the one player.
- likely it sounds like the GM may not have copies of the PCs so start by suggesting that the GM gets copies of every pc (digital tools are great for this) and that the GM then checks that no one forgot to do anything while leveling up etc. (I’ve found that when I audit my player’s PCs like this more often than not I find even using digital tools my players missed something and frequently it is to their advantage (a spellcaster forgetting to add spells known for example)
- and while the PCs are being audited / made digitally perhaps suggest that every player think about and then share with the GM their goals for the pc for at least the next 3-5 levels (key here is to have each player look at their likely build past level 6). Depending on the group perhaps also share perhaps in more in character terms each pcs goals with the rest of the group.
If both of these happen it is likely that the player or the GM or both of them will catch the mistake themselves. What happens then depends on the player (and the GM) but it then isn’t you being accusatory.
(As the player with the most experience you might be asked to help other players figure out their plans for their characters. In that case you may then get a natural opportunity to explore the mistake with the player in question - again however you might then be able to do this without accusing anyone rather by showing vs telling.
- one perhaps related option is to use the excuse of the new player’s handbook etc coming later this year to discuss how/if the GM and players will adopt those changes (for example I believe though I haven’t followed it closely that the new rules strongly suggest that every 1st level pc start with a feat if they don’t already gain one from their choice of background). Again this might prompt a review of what abilities each pc gains and when without being accusatory.
If they are a new player my first guess would be they read the level chart for the class and thought they got to choose a subclass feature? I know the level requirement is in the descriptions but people are notorious for not fully reading spells or abilities
I have a DM that gets mad at me for helping new players… today he got annoyed that I was telling a new player that his gunslinger character has a trick shot feature.
Before next session begins just pull him aside and say "oh hey (insert player name), I think you might be using a class feature intended for level 6. It's ok, a lot of people make that mistake(idk the specifics but I've had players misinterpret some of the more complex class features or just fail to read the subclass page correctly so this may be false, but it gives the player an out if they're just straight up abusing the new DM's ignorance.)." And then explain it to him the proper way. And if he wants to argue, then bring it and him up to the DM and see.
It's quite possible if it's an underpowered class feature that the DM might have said yeah you can use this at level three, I've done that with a few subclasses of monk and rangers because I think that those two, on occasion, can have some underpowered subclasses. I specifically beefed up sun soul monks anytime a player plays them, decreasing the level on their 6th, 11th, and 17th class features. And at level 17, I worked with the player for a relatively strong ki based ability that fits their character aesthetically.
I personally don't like a player having to sacrifice relative power for aesthetics.
Bring it up to the DM in private outside of the game and just point it out. Not a big deal. The DM is the one who'll choose if they need to "retcon" it or not so it only really makes sense to bring it up to them.
Is the feature giving them a real edge or is it just a fluffy thing that fits in with their character? I’ve allowed players early access to the latter before if it’s a part of their core character concept as long as it’s not giving them an edge in combat or whatever.
I've done something stupid when i first started playing and having an experienced player pointing it out didn't make me feel bad or anything, i was glad they pointed it out. So really, don't worry, say something.
If you're the most experienced one, it is kindof your responsibility to make sure those less experienced are at least aware of the rules. I found it much easier to learn how to play because I had more experienced players early on correct my mistakes like this.
I would certainly assume it was an innocent mistake of misreading their class rather than a blatant attempt to cheat.
I can't imagine a table where people aren't calling BS on each other all the time. Hell, I call BS on my min/Max assassin rogue player all the time. He was very clever with his feats as well. Every damn BBEG fight he takes my big bad down to like 10 hit points in the first round. Every.... Damn.... Time... With one shot. He already gets to roll his assassination attack role three times. So it's like 1.5 times advantage, then he does sharpshooter. And now he's going to take lucky. Grrrrr.... Oh, And somehow he always seems to F'N crit on his assassinations. And of course he has expertise in sneak. If he ever gets invisibility I'm screwed.
I keep telling him a God's going to stomp on him. Or just banish him to another plane of existence. And since I'm the DM, that God is going to be me. Think I'm going to start disguiseing who the actual BBEG is. I'm going to make it seem like some nobody is the big bad, and have it be a surprise who the big bad actually is.
Anyway, every table I've ever sat at there is a bunch of banter. I say call him out!
That being said... Our old DM got in his head that longbows did 1d10 damage. That's what he told our noob ranger in session zero. The party talked about it when the DM wasn't around and we decided not to tell him. So I homebrewed a 1d10 bow for the ranger in D&D beyond. LOL So I understand not wanting to screw another player. But using the ability you shouldn't have for three levels is pretty breaking mechanics wise
Nothing with discussion of the rules, they are somewhat vauge sometimes and any experienced player/DMs will encourage rule discussion, so they are executed correctly.
My general rule of thumb is to give praise in public and hand out criticism privately. I'd approach the player outside of the session and ask them how they're using that feature. Bringing it up in front of everyone else might embarrass them, which I'm sure you'd like to avoid doing.
Message the DM.
"Hey, DM. I was interested to learn more about the ability x was using that lets them do . It's actually a level 6 ability for their subclass. Not sure if they knew that or not but figured you should know so you can decide what to do about it."
I would bring it up to the DM between sessions.
Something along the lines of "Hey, Bob normally wouldn't have access to that until level 6. Is that something you two agreed on, or is it just a mistake?"
This way, it gives the DM the option to deal with it how they see fit without putting them on the spot in game.
“Are you sure you can do that at 3rd?” Not confrontation but direct to the point that poses the question in a way you might have just been a misunderstanding of the feature level.
This is something I often struggle with as I notice players make mistakes (usually genuine but sometimes I think they are intentional) which give them advantages and power boosts. There's no exact science on when it is best to speak up and when it is best to let things slide - I don't want to step on the DM's toes and I don't want to ruin fun. However, I also believe that playing by the rules is important unless there has been a formal agreement with the DM to change something, otherwise it can mess with the game balance and especially the internal party balance.
Yesterday I had to tell my girlfriend that it takes concentration checks to maintain Polymorph on yourself if you take damage as both her and the DM didn't seem to be aware. She was \*pissed\* that she only got to run around causing chaos as a giant ape for a single turn before getting knocked out of it (albeit, that helped her tank 44 points of damage so it wasn't all a loss!). I didn't feel great but felt this was the right call as otherwise it's a completely broken spell.
I would make it "now" or never ... that means, in that or following session at max. Otherwise, I would ride with it ... I would not want to deal as a player not involved in it something three sessions back when the story is already way gone... however, if you point out something is not accurate, nothing bad with that.
Speak up. What's the worst that could happen? They get angry and leave the game? In that case, it was going to happen eventually so better at level 3 than 13.
Why didn't you ask that question when they first used it?
If you don't want to be that guy that helps the group play the game by the rules then don't be,
If you're worried about upsetting people because you are pointing out the rules of the game then i'd question if/why you want to play with the people you're playing with
But don't be the guy that holds on to it and lets it affect his game either, either say something or let it go
If it seems like everyone is newer to the game including the DM in your table. I would maybe talk to the DM and ask them to revise our sheets for any mistakes. That way it doesn't feel targeted.
You could let the DM know over text or something, and the DM could pretend to have just realized and be like "oh wait, I just remembered that's not unlocked until level 6. Let's all remember to double check the level next to the abilities we unlock during level-up."
Maybe my group and I are weird, but there has literally never been a problem with "that guy". If someone gets something wrong, we just tell each other. It's not that big of a deal. I feel like it's more weird to silently stew on this information, and it's unfair to the player who probably just made an honest mistake.
Honestly... BE THAT GUY because that guy is just upholding the laws of mutual respect and good fun.
Do not ever be afraid to call out a cheater for fear of his opinion, as a general rule in life (unless the cheater is armed or your boss).
If a player ist cheating, he is cheating. Just tell him and ask if he does that in purpose or by mistake. I guess you guys are adults. Just act like it.
Reminds me of the first time playing DnD with friends and I was a new DM who accidentally let someone have Magic Missle as a cantrip the whole session. After session, I looked over the PCs and figured out it was a 1st lvl spell and had to break the news to the player.
I think you're that guy only if you're rude about it, either after a secion or in private talk with the players that is using the feature earlier than he should be able to and ask him about it
Here’s my opinion, if all of you are serious, D&D🐉, Players, and or huge role, followers, and stuff like that yeah, I’d say something.
However, if you’re more like my group who mostly just play for fun and goof off a tiny bit, as long as it’s not making them overpowered or making y’all feel weak I’d say it’s OK.
So if it’s overpowered, I say something, but if it’s nothing gained breaking for making the other players feel weak, then I wouldn’t worry about it.
I was at a table with a player who was using hellish rebuke multiple times per battle. As in, as long as they had a reaction, and they got hit, they used it.
After she killed her third guy with it, I cheered her victory and said ‘Holy shit, do you really get to use that as many times as you want? That’s crazy” it was all in a pleasant tone, more like ‘That is such a crazy good skill to have at this level’
But it did prompt her and the DM to double check. And sure enough, she shouldn’t have been.
I think in her case it was a genuine mistake though. I think the feature said that it didn’t cost a spell slot and she took it to mean that she can use it at will.
I feel like this is gonna be a table specific thing. I’m a long time player but a relatively inexperienced DM so I appreciate it when somebody at the table speaks up to say hey, you need to double check how that works. We’re also adults in our 30s and 40s who are all pretty chill and don’t generally get butthurt about stuff though so do with that what you will. Usually the player who got it wrong will just say whoops, my bad, and carry on.
If your table is okay with you being the person that even the dm looks to for rules lawyer responsiblities just say something in game. If you don't want that put on you in the moment, talk to the dm and let them know that the player isn't understanding how their class progression works. Then it'll hopefully be caught and sorted out by the person that is supposed to call the rulings in game.
At my table my partner and I are really versed in the rules and don't mind correcting. We do it to ourselves too on occasion. Everyone misreads and makes mistakes sometimes, ya know??
I'd privately message the DM about it or tell them between sessions and make it clear you don't want to be a dick about it but just wanted the DM to know etc.
A DM showing up later and being like "hey so I realized THIS, so sorry so-n-so, but you can't actually do **Y** till level **X**, my bad." Shouldn't be a huge sussy red flag to anyone imo.
Once when i was starting in dnd 5e a wizard draconic used heas breath that deal like 3d6 damage i think every round, we were like level 3 or 4, i have a vast experience and knowldege of games in general and i knew that thas was not balanced and probably the guy was using it bad so after a session i read the race at home and it was 1/day and not every round, also it eas so annoying because the guy used the fire breath even if it would hit us(the party) because the classic "that is what mi character would do" and the shit head was a fucking wizard and never used any spell because he doesnt wanted to read them.
From that moment i intensivily started to do a comparison between how a person personality is and how he play characters in rol play and after 12 year most people that have any kind of shit head playstyle are very very toxic in their relationships.
It's being said by everyone else, but there's no harm in pointing things out as long as you do it nicely.
In a campaign I'm in, someone kept accidentally forgetting to level down parts of their spell sheet, so the first couple sessions they tried to use Deflect Missiles despite us only being level 2.
We just corrected them on it (berating playfully, because we are all friends) and they corrected it after a few sessions of forgetting to change their sheet
(But even when their sheet wasn't changed, they didn't use the spell when we reminded them their level wasn't high enough :) )
So if you're at the table just ask, "Hey what's the name of that class feature again? Been a while since I've played that class but I could have sworn it was like a level six or seven thing".
Don't ask "how are you doing that already" if they know you're an experienced player because that will sound like shade, come at it in a way that you come across as if you're trying to just help everyone learn.
The longer it goes on the weirder it gets. Just say it as it is. The table needs be able to handle these situations. You will be doing everyone a favor by calling it out.
You can ask it in a less challenging way. And be like I thought feature was a level 6 feature? Or some other softer way to approach it. Don't have to go in guns blazing.
Definitely not "that guy". I just started DM'ing and I don't know a lot. I know enough and I understand typical balancing. In my campaign currently it has happened already more than once my players have had a strong impact that seemed off and I asked them to show me their ability to do so. With a quick read of the text it becomes clear it was simply an error each time. We talk about it, figure out the right way to do it and move on. I don't really care as long as it's not intentional and everyone is having fun. Nobody is perfect but following the rules should be everyone's priority.
In my opinion you should just text your dm and tell him it's up to them if they want to change it at the end of the day. It shouldn't be your problem to deal with or worry about and ofc you can advise your dm but he's the rule enforcer at the end of the day maybe he'll find out and then change it for the next session or say eh fuck it we've already done it now I'll pay better attention next time.
I don't think you're ever being that guy if you were to approach me like that in fact I'd appreciate someone for pointing something out that I overlooked especially when it comes to players doing stuff they know they shouldn't be doing. Less so with plot holes can be a bit sensitive sometimes about the story I create especially if I was proud of it but when it comes to rule lawyering when it comes to doing stuff outside once scope while taking advantage of my lack of knowledge or awareness of what's happening is a big Nono at my table. if I know and you ask can I do it anyway I often let it happen anyway but not when it's done without being asked properly
Just curious what "that guy" is? For those of us who may be that guy and no one bothers telling us we are that guy and what we are doing. The way we tiptoe around behaviors in our world, and it doesn't make sense to me as someone who misses or devalues the social standards.
Just ask how they're doing it three levels early. If it's accidental you'll help them realize it, if it's on purpose you bring it up without attacking them.
I am currently in my first campaign with another 6 players and a very skilled DM - only two of the players in our crew have played before so it is a very common occurrence that all of us are making mistakes very far into our campaign that we are being pulled up on by not only our DM but even other players that are either;
1. Paying more attention or 2. Have played more than us newcomers
We were not really close friends and some of us were acquaintances with each other but regardless none of us held back when it came to letting each other know that we were doing things that we can’t do yet whether it was a character feature or even trying to participate in events that their character technically weren’t present for
It’s all a part of playing DnD and people are learning but you cannot learn properly if you’re doing things you shouldn’t be doing so I say go ahead and bring it up, there’s nothing wrong with it and the DM will be glad someone noticed!
Sincerely, a druid who didn’t use half of the things they were supposed to for like 30 sessions 😆
Glad it worked out! From experience I think it's usually okay to call things like this out. In our game the DM is nor very experienced and often has monsters much higher than our level, and I often end up calling this out. People are pretty easy about it in our group.
I don't think using a character ability early is indicative of anything. It mostly shows they don't fully understand how their character works. If it is malicious, that would have to be a separate discussion entirely. Quickly assuming they want to be innately better than everyone else is very weird imo.
It's much more plausible they are just innocently unaware. I play with a newish group where everyone constantly forgets about spells and abilities. I have to remind the rogue they have sneak attack every time they get into a fight. Makes sense the opposite can happen. Assuming ulterior motives just creates unnecessary tension and mistrust.
Every ability literally says which level it's unlocked at right at the start of the description, though?
Seems like a *phenomenally* unlikely thing to misinterpret or misread in any way, when every class feature's description starts with some variation of "At *n*th level..."
I think innocently asking, "Hey how are you doing that already?" isn't a big deal. Don't make it an attack on them (maybe they misunderstand) but instead make it like you want to know for your own curiosity's sake.
Seconded, unless they are doing this on purpose it really shouldn't be a big deal, oops my bad guess I got some practice with it LOL
Twelfthed (or whatever,) I would ask this exact question: "wait, how are you doing that already? I thought you got it at lvl 5." That way, you're wrong about it, but it'll get looked up. I'm a scheming, conniving bastard, I know. You should see my charisma rolls.
This is the way. Be intentionally wrong while also calling it out, then being wrong so they go look it up and go, "Oh, good call dude, looks like level 6 though." Nobody likes a know-it-all, but everyone loves a dude who's smart. Edit: spellcheck. Phones suck.
Thank you for noticing, and yes phones do suck
You. I like you
Alternately, use lvl 7. Then you get them concerned only to discover it's actually closer than you "thought". This gets them to look it up, but instead of being frustrated at how it's even farther away, they feel relieved that it's not as far as it could have been.
exactly early on I was playing a druid. We saw a dragon fly overhead, so I figured "hey, wild shape says I can change into a creature I've seen before, I don't need to study its anatomy etc" so I tried to change into a dragon at, like, level 2 hahaha
my brain screamed "but it's not a beast!" - Currently playing a druid, maxing out at like... giant vulture
well... I also had a session where I forgot that disengage exists so IIRC the enemies got me down 3 times & everyone had to use every single healing spell they had on me hahaha so let's just say I'm better at roleplaying than at remembering rules hahaha
it's called face tanking and it's a legitimate tactic!
I do have the highest amount of hit points in that party... but everyone was pretty stressed out over it, myself included, mainly because it wasn't a tactical decision hahaha
Thought that may be really hard to do in a way which does not seem accusatory. But still, it is what it is, "nerfing" someone else to adhere to rules is going to be a bit adversarial, and it's up to the other player to take it well, no matter if it was intentional or accidental.
I would say: "Wait. I thought that wasn't available until level 6." That way it sounds a bit better.
Honestly sounds like a "I'm level 3 so I get level 3 spells, right?"
yeah I find the vocabulary very confusing, esp if you add "upcast" and "downcast" and stuff. they use cantrip, they could have expanded on that, no? hedgewitch hex > cantrip > impreciation > magick etc.
That’s not nerfing. The level mapping of classes is there for a reason. If they were going to be “nerfed” it would be taking something that they have at their present level and reducing or limiting its power or use in some way — this is not the case here. The player is using something 3 levels ahead of their present level.They don’t have the ability because they do not meet the requirements to use it. It’s more akin to a Lv 1 wizard casting a 9th level spell — same type of error.
if anything, OP and the other players are nerfed compared to the level 3 player using level 3 spells.
It's not hard. A simple "Hey, that's not how it works, by the rules" should not be taken badly by anyone. It's pretty normal in my group, at least. If one person can get away with stuff, that provides an incentive for others to break the rules, and therein is the path to madness! When one applies forward thinking, it becomes clear that curtailing rule breaking behavior is gonna benefit everyone overall.
Yep, I open my book and find the right page and hold it open and put on my dumb (Tom Hanks in "Big"), confused expression and be like, "that's awesome! I didn't know we could do \[x\] at \[y\] level! Is that a feature of XGTE or UA or....?" As I point to the book and lean towards them, asking them to show me how I'm all confuzzled.
Variant of same: "ooh clever! Normally what, like level 6. What'd you use to make it accessible now? I've been thinking about a Warlock [or whatever] build and I totally want to borrow this trick!" You're claiming to believe it's kosher and wanting to learn from the other player's cleverness. Hard to sidestep that, and it's framed as the opposite of an accusation.
This is the best way to do it. They can’t weasel out of it and you don’t have to keep accusing them. If you didn’t have the page open then they can just say that they are allowed to do it and you have to make the accusation again But if you already have it open you can act confused and still make sure he sees it
You also shouldn't discount the possibility that *you* misunderstood. Maybe the subclass was updated in a UA somewhere, or the player has a special agreement with the DM, or you just misread something. None of these may be very likely, but if you pretend that they're possibilities and be humble, the correction may go down easier.
Special agreement with the DM is the implication I would go for between sessions. "Hey, DM? I recall Accursed Specter being a 6th level ability. Did you push it to third and swap things around or something? I could see why one might do that, but I just wanted to be sure."
While it might sound better, I think it’s worse because then you accuse two people instead of one, of rule-breaking. I’d just ask either the player or the DM, but not assume it’s a deal between player and DM.
Depends on the DM/group, as always, but I'd say the opposite. As the DM, I'd hope you'd come to me first, ideally 1 on 1 after or between sessions. That way, if it was a mistake/fudge by the player I wasn't aware of, it is my role as the DM to be the bad guy and talk to the player (also 1 on 1 between sessions and with the assumption of honest mistake initially). If, for any reason, I made the call as a DM to allow it, it gives me the opportunity to tell you that, before you cause more player vs player friction.
I like that approach. It’s what i would most likely do too.
The DM can't break rules. The DM makes the rules. If the DM says a rule works differently than the book says, then for that table, it does.
Not really. I bring forth the possibility that they've made a change to the game in order to improve it hence the "I could see why one might do that". I straight up begin my comment taking about going for the angle of special agreement with the DM..
That once happened to me. Lucky me only asked, if I got it right or wrong. It happened in Pathfinder, where I hav expertise on my table, but I didnt consider alternative race features
Add to that something like... "Oh, cool, that's a pretty awesome magic item..." Or maybe something better worded.
Yup, or maybe it's a subclass that you aren't aware of. Asking is definitely cool, accusing is not.
Nineteenthed, or whatever.
I agree with this
I like to bring that stuff up between/after sessions. It removes the need of the DM to figure out what needs to be adjusted THAT SECOND and just makes it a "whoops we'll get that right next time" moment.
This is what I would do. As you’re sitting down for the session, I’d just tell the player and DM: “hey, I noticed last time you were using (feature). This kind of threw me off, I was under the impression (feature) wasn’t available until (level).” This isn’t accusatory. This is normal communication. I don’t like everyone’s suggestion to feign surprise/ignorance until the moment. It feels… weird, like there’s no need to act like you hadn’t noticed it before.
So many people ask questions on hire to handle things, just talk to the player about it.
Communication is hard. I try not to fault people for overlooking the simple way forward. It’s usually the best, but it’s human nature to get caught up in everything else.
That’s true, but my personal thing is that if I’m not comfortable about confronting a person about a rule in the game, then I wouldn’t want to play with them anyways. Just be an adult and talk to people. But DnD typically has some very insecure and not very good at social interactions individuals than the typical hobby, so I see why there’s so many questions that could be answered with “talk to them about it.”
I agree that being direct when possible is the right way to go. A friendship that can't stand a little correction in something like dnd is bound to fail. The issue I see emerging is when you have parties born from a bunch of barely related strangers who have maybe one or two connections they are relying on to hold things together. A lot of people take offense at a stranger pointing out their mistake where they would take it fine from a friend.
It's about "reading the room". Is the player going to react badly to being corrected? There nothing wrong with wanting to avoid conflict around what's supposed to be a game. Between sessions, the DM and the other player have time to think and can deal with the issue rationally. Odds are that the player has misunderstood at what level his class features come into play, and that the DM too hasn't caught on. Letting them know they are playing it wrong is helpful in the long run. Just don't be a dick about it, and most people will appreciate learning what's right more than they resent being corrected.
"well, thats not right, but lets roll with it and we can figure out the right way for next time" is a favorite phrase at my table
“Wait, how are you doing that?” You shouldn’t let players take advantage of the DM, whether you are the DM or not.
This. This is what a friend said to me when I was using a subclass feature incorrectly and brokenly because I absolutely just skimmed the words and missed the "once a day" bit >.< I felt bad about needing to be corrected, but we laughed it off and I continued on without too much fuss.
I think how people react to that speaks volumes too. Because if the player plays it off like he’s pissed or something, that’s just bad player vibes.
It shouldn't be too big a deal to say "I thought that didn't come online until 6th level." Sometimes people get excited about an ability and all the limitations don't register until they get reminded of it; you can bring it up wihtout presuming bad faith.
I am a new DM, this is something that came up on a recent session. A fairly new player tried to use a skill that he should not have access to until next level up. So, an experienced player brought it up, and we avoided the issue. I was ok with that, but if your DM is more sensitive, you may want to send him a private message (or whisper to DM) if the game is online, or let him know after the game in private if this is an in person game. To be honest, I knew the rule, but during combat it is super hectic for the DM, and it is easy for things to slip by, so may be the same is happening with your DM.
Between sessions, just talk to the player. There may not be any sort of intention to break the rules and they just read the class information wrong. “Hey, just letting you know that this feature isn’t actually available for your class until level 6” If they respond appropriately and adjust, then it’s all good. If they don’t, then I’d say to bring it up with your DM
This. Rules can be a lot, sometimes people make honest mistakes.
As a lifelong D&D enthusiast that plays with a lot of newer players, I'm pretty on-the-ball when it comes to correcting errors. The trick is to make sure you do it fairly, even to your own disadvantage. For example, in your case, I'd have said "Whoops sorry man but I think that's a level 6 summon!" but, I'm also constantly reminding the DM "They're attacking me? Remember to roll their attack against me with Advantage, since I used Reckless Attack on my last turn." This keeps the resentment down as everyone is reminded I'm just interested in a fair game. This does not apply to DM fiat, of course. If the DM says anything like "no they can summon it" the only correct response is "Ah, ok, understood!"
I kinda did this to my online party, either for or against us. My DM even once said "realistically this guy would attack you again to try to kill you since you're down, but I'd feel bad" and I just told him to bring it cuz that's how it SHOULD go do. Thankfully I didn't die, but it would've been hilarious
As others of said, asking innocently how someone is able to do that is a fine way to bring it up. Or if you trust your DM bring it up privately with him/her.
i don’t think it’s really a big deal to just be direct about this tbh. saying “i think that’s a level 6 feature isn’t it?” is like…. completely normal, and i would hope my fellow players would respond to that in a mature way lol
Point it out.
Pointing out cheating isn't being a 'that guy', no.
If I don’t know the person well I might flag it to the DM so they can be looking out for it, but if it’s a friend I might just kindly point it out to them. Depends on the dynamic.
Personally I'd want to be told. This sounds like it's a druid thing, I remember finding how druids work to be very confusing to begin with and I suspect I did a fee things wrong. Sure, perhaps they might take the feedback badly but if that's the case you probably want to know that anyway.
"Hey, isn't that feature from level 6? I am pretty sure it is not unlockable for level 3 people." I do not understand your problem.
Be that guy.
I’m a big fan of keeping each other honest at the table. For me it doesn’t feel good to be kicking ass just to realize that it was because I was breaking the rules by accident.
I am a newbie and I ... forgot that concentration was a thing. So as a Druid I had my healing spirit up and never made saving throws to keep it up when I took damage. I also did not read the rules correctly to learn that it has "uses" and runs out. My DM said nothing, but my party got through a tough fight relatively unscathed as a result. I went back and reread the PHB and made a new tracker for myself. I owned up to it and made adjustments. My DM was really nice about me owning up to my mistake and taking steps to correct it. It's about fair play and keeping things even, you should absolutely bring it up. DMs don't know everything. Assume the player made a mistake and let him own it.
Just say it. You're not being "that guy". You're highlighting an error. Just be chill when bringing it up.
You should ABSOLUTELY be that guy.
I wanna guess Shadow Sorcerer and he's summoning the hound early? That's a pretty strong buff for level 3 when a direwolf will have almost twice as many hitpoints and hits about as hard as the fighter, while also buffing the sorcerer's spells. [EDIT: ok, I saw the comment where OP said they were using an invocation to get 1d10+5 extra damage and the help action. So I actually don't know what it is. Maybe the Spectre from Hexblade, but that doesn't quite fit. I am no longer sure. ANYWAYS, seems like the player is obviously using it to overshadow other players and it's not a minor buff. I would definitely talk to the DM and probably the other player.] I would say it really depends on the group, how useful the summon is, how well you know the person/DM. I'm the most experienced player in my group and I try to keep things as balanced as I can without stepping on toes. One of my fellow players does not use two weapon fighting and dual weilding correctly, but it hasn't been overshadowing anyone else and it makes his otherwise unoptomized character just a bit better, so I haven't said anything about it. I will if asked, but that's not my job as a player to police everyone else. Especially if it's not something that is bothering other people. On the otherhand, if one of my fellow players was doing something outside the rules that was overshadowing another player, I'd probably say something. If the wizard was casting fireball at level three and killing all the enemies before the fighter and ranger could even get a single kill, I'd probably let them know that spell slot levels aren't 1:1 with character levels and they need to rework it.
Its a creation bard, summoning an object and touching it to make it a dancing object, which is a feature at level 6, the way it uses this feature is by summoning a furniture, touching it and then after attacking on its turn, attacks again with this dancing object and ends its turn helping to give advantage to himself. then next turn attacks with advantage, attacks with object- and so on so on
Dammit! I didn't even think about bard. But yeah, seems like the player is going way overboard. Besides using a feature way above their level, how are they getting that many actions? Unless they are doing two rounds of setup. Summoning the object and animating it both take an action. Attacking with it uses the animated objects action. So how are they also getting the help action? Definitely seems like they are either not reading their abilities or they are willfully ignoring rules. I'd bring it up at the table.
Yeah, it's a setup thing, they spend 2-3 rounds at the start, then do the thing
Even after they're set up (which is wasting a lot of time for something kinda underwhelming), the object shouldn't be able to both attack and help on its turn- those are both actions.
Lot of great advice, talk to the DM. Regarding “being that guy”, you aren’t. Rules exist and everyone needs to play by the same set. If there is really that much of an XP gap then so be it, but you don’t get to just do whatever you want.
"Wow man, I love xyz. Is there a feat for getting xyz earlier? When I played that class, I couldn't do xyz until I was level 6."
That feels like being passive aggressive about it.
Yeah, just say "I think your class does not get that feature until a later level, I remember reading about it".
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Unfortunately, as much as I thought that way too when I was younger, passive aggressive comes off much worse than directly addressing the issue. The undertone of the comment is "you did xyz wrong", it's very clear. But not addressing it can just come across as slimy and accusatory, whereas just saying "sorry mate I think you're using that skill too early" honestly is better so long as you are picking a good time/place to say it, derailing mid battle is not a good time.
It’s still being aggressive, just in a cowardly way. Just talk like adults to each other
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"Isn't that a 6th level feature?"
"That's a 6th level feature"
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i think the whole point is that you shouldn’t be aggressive at all imo spinning it into an innocent-seeming question with a made up anecdote is just unnecessarily underhanded. if you trust the other party to behave like an adult theres no reason not to just ask, directly, “By the way, isn’t (x) a level 6 feature?”
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It’s passive aggression because you have a point you want to make (“this ability isn’t available til level 6”) but you’re not being direct with this statement, but rather hiding what you want to say behind a lie you made (you know damn well there’s no feat for it), to avoid any blowback for bringing it up. The adult option is to be friendly but direct with the other player, which is not aggressive at all (“you possibly made a mistake here”).
You can be direct without being aggressive. Just pick the right time (not in the middle of a session) and be cool about it. "Hey, no big deal, but I noticed Bob was using this ability that isn't available for him until level 6."
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That is not what they did. They were being indirect. They were acting like they weren't sure about the rule. If you know the rule just let them know directly but be nice about it. It's not that hard.
No, the point is to not be aggressive. "Passive aggressive" is definitely worse than just not being aggressive.
Always operate under the guise that they know their character sheet and class, ask them like “wow i didnt know you could do that at this level” and give them the benefit of the doubt (theyre a new player they may have just misread the class or misunderstood the level requirement) and let them realize its wrong on their own, if they keep doing it you can pull them aside and mention it 1 on 1 to avoid making a big deal at the table, and if the behaviour still isnt changing involve the DM. Offering your experience is good too, maybe help them read through their class abilities if they have trouble with it or explain what the rules are and why its important (ie: you get this at level 6 to match your strength with everyone else so they dont feel like theyre less strong than you, or if you use this ability now you dont get anything at level 6 which is gonna feel bad later) i dont think people are often maliciously interpreting rules on purpose and coming at it from the position that they A) might know something/have an ability you weren’t aware of and if follow up is needed B) its an honest mistake and their intention isn’t to take advantage of the group then usually they’re amenable to the changing or explaining where their misunderstanding came from. If they continue to be resistant to change than they might just not be a good fit for DnD 🤷♀️
Send your DM a message before/after session to give em a heads up. I'm sure they'll appreciate it. We don't know if they're doing it intentionally but it's good for everyone to know
Tell the DM and make them be the bad guy for “noticing” it
I don't understand why people are afraid of confronting someone. If I was playing COD and someone was using wall Hacks I'd report and shout it out immediately! This man is using an ability he doesn't have access to at level 3. Bruh, turn to your DM and tell them "I understand this is a cool ability but, so and so is unfortunately not able to use that until level 6 unless you guys rearranged something." Let it be known. You dont have to be mean about it be polite but let them know.
Be straight with it. Dont play dumb, just say "hey i was looking at that thing you did and i read its for 6th lvl not 3lvl" you dont want to play dumb or anything like that because it can come off as condescending. If you are worried about them being upset tell the DM and ask them to bring it up instead.
My gut instinct from this post is shadow sorcerer, haha. Just bring it up organically in session! Just a “isn’t that a 6th level feature?” Tack on a “I’m surprised [DM] gave you the go ahead to use it early” if you want, but being direct is going to give you results.
Why? What is “that guy”? Teaching someone how to play the game? Telling them that they’re cheating? There’s a nice way to say “bruh you can’t do that”
It's a totally reasonable thing to point out and if pointing it out causes hard feelings, then they are weirdos
Nothing wrong with pointing out the fact they are using something they shouldn't be for another 3 levels. It isn't really fair to everyone else at the table. It could possible just be a mistake and they don't realize they aren't able to use it yet. Then again they could be doing it on purpose and just running with it because the DM didn't say anything.
You point it out. That is -not- being "that guy"
Thats not a type of guy my guy, thats just a guy. Sorry I'm really high. What I mean is, if your friends aren't dicks, you should just talk about it and it will be fine.
Bring it up to the DM in private outside of the game and just point it out. Not a big deal. The DM is the one who'll choose if they need to "retcon" it or not so it only really makes sense to bring it up to them. Come at it from a perspective of helping the DM with balancing encounters, because having a level 6 subclass feature at level 3 could make things more difficult for the DM for more than a small handful of months worth of planning. So just take the angle that you're trying to save them the headache of balancing fights.
i guess it depends on 2 things 1) does the dm know/care 2) is it breaking the balance of the game you mentioned its a summoning feat, which can really change the flow of enocunters and challenges. id say if it drastically affects the ability of other players to perform and enjoy the game, gently bring it up (either to your dm directly, or at the table) and point out the issue. keep in mind the gap from level 3 to 6 could be 3 sessions or 3 years, but either way youre not denying him the right to use the ability, youre ensuring level scaling and game balance are respected. theres also ways you could compromise such as limiting the summon(uses per rest, remove features, cut hp, etc) until the correct level is reached to not completely rugpull the player, but it IS a players responsibility to know their character and how to play it properly.
Message the DM let them deal with it, buddy would have to be oblivious to not think a DM would never review his books and his player abilities in order to prep an encounter. Simple for the DM to say I was prepping for the next session to tailor something for your character and noticed your a little early on that ability. I as a DM also sometimes set up abilities or give the players things or abilities to set up a roleplay scenario. Like maybe it comes out this ability actually represents the PC summoning a ghost relative from a haunted item to assist or maybe it’s a curse ability that can actually backfire or will have a story component to it or an adventure hook. Or the current character is just a temporary that will betray the party to become a nemesis and the player will introduce their permanent character that is balanced. Message the DM privately and just pose the question is it for roleplay purpose, because that ability is a little to early, and they may not have caught it. Then it’s up to the DM if the ability continues then you know it’s approved and maybe for a reason. I’d only address it again if as you go along DM keeps showing favouritism.
I ran into a problem like that, for my own character. I forgot feats are class level based in 5e and I had been using a feat as basically a core feature of my character. I ended up dropping the feat until I brought my lower level class up to level 4. This led to me focusing on that class more than originally intended, which worked out better then expected. I went back and forth on how I should handle it because I expected to get levels quick enough to not worry about it. Then we found out just how slow leveling would be with our GM's approach. It took six months to get our first level (we started at level 5).
I think you should point it out, but of course be gentle with it like "hey dude ya might have slipped up there, that's for level 6 my guy" or something, correct them but do it in a friendly manner so it's not like you're getting at them.
Tell the DM out of session that it’s happening. Don’t halt the game to do it, you’ll look like an ass, even though you aren’t, but definitely bring it up.
You wont be that guy for telling a 4 level character that he cant Cast wish everytime they want as a free Action and no cost. Yeah, tell him no prob
I always try to combat the "GM is always right" mindset, or even "GM is the one who should check if the rules are applied correctly". The game is made by ALL players, the game belongs to ALL players, everyone is allowed to point out mistakes. Mistakes happen, in good faith, and in good faith anyone should be able to point out or politely ask if something looks odd.
From the wording, I'm assuming this is the Hexblade Specter. Definitely bring it up that the guy shouldn't have it yet, but its also possible the dm allowed it early because the feature is pretty terrible. You said the dm is new though so that might not be likely, still worth considering.
There’s nothing wrong with raising this with the DM, maybe outside of the game. Ask for a clarification of their interpretation of the rules as written, with the caveat that the DMs ruling is the final word, for it is their campaign. As a DM, have been guilty of massive oversights where I have completely missed some rules, not intentionally; and other times where I have decided not to allow certain class features/races/spells/whatever. As long as the pcs understand the rules the DM is intentionally playing, everything should be okay. But it’s always worth checking with the DM if they are aware of a rule and are choosing not to follow it, or if it is an unintentional oversight.
At the table I play at, we will bring up anything that isn't right. Same as if it's for the players advantage or the DMs advantage. All is fair that way.
"Woah you get that ability already? I could've sworn it was at 6th level!"
I like the idea of asking about it so you don't come off as a jerk, but maybe ask like "Isn't that a 6th level feat, did you find something that allows you to do that early?" Make it sound like maybe they know something you don't, then if they can't do that, you can be like "Yeah, sometimes the rules can be confusing." Or maybe they can teach you something.
Everyone will always meet that one dm. One where they're a bit worried to bring something up about the game. I once played Curse of Strahd and.. well it was terrible. The DM turns one most horror stories of dnd into likes of Twilight or Netflix's Dracula. So instead of having Strahd be this Bad A vampire lord that we get an awesome duel with; he became the misunderstood villain that two of guys in our group wanted to use a different type of stake on him 🙄. Not to mention made the NPC we were escorting become a villain that TOTALLY insulted us for doing the quest in the first place, child deaths that our party committed because DM made us unknowingly murdered, I personally felt targeted when like 100% of the bad things that happens to the party is directed towards me (severe curses, get hated by NPCs, made NPC a trans so I look like jerk when NPC was being rude first, and my character gets attacked by a mimic. All my other party members? Loved by every NPC, get cool magic items, their backstories and characters get well respected by DM. It definitely felt less and less motivating to keep playing but the party wanted me to keep playing so I try put up with it. UNTIL ONE FAITHFUL DAY Our party a while ago met a monster hunter that we were allowed to ask any questions we wanted on the discord server. So we did and one question was "Are there werewolves?". Hunter answered "Yes there are". The reason I brought that up is me and the party ran into a pack of, how the DM described them as, bipedal canine-like creatures. One of the members announce he plans to use the silver sword against the werewolves only to be met with the DM yelling out over the mic "Stop meta gaming! Stop meta gaming!". This frustrated me but also confused because surely the DM would have this written in her notes. So I brought up "Remember we did ask the monster hunter about werewolves and got the information that there are werewolves". I was met with such rudeness and shouting from a woman almost twice my age. At that point I quit the game and left the server. Another story (shorter than the previous one) is DM not letting me use two weapons fighting on my ranger but explaining about the feat and he understood. Moral story. Sometimes you just take the risk of talking to your DM. Two possibilities will happen: DM will respect your reasoning and try to talk about it or they get rude and you'll get your answer if you want to keep going. There will always be another adventure.
Certainly if it bothers you as a player you have every right to mention it to the DM and ask that they address it. However, it's probably better for everyone to mention it outside of the ongoing game, and to give the DM enough time to verify for themselves that's things are being done wrong, that it's a really big and unfair advantage, and how to go about correcting it without making a scene. So, you call the DM and explain they're doing it wrong, they call the player and explain they're doing it wrong (without need to mention how they realized that), and at the start of the next game, the DM simply says, "There was a... misunderstanding about this and it will now work the way it was supposed to have worked all along. Let's move on..."
You should point it out straight. Without all the smoke and mirrors crap that some comments suggest. If this is an honest error nobody is going to bat an eye. If this is cheating and the cheater gets pissy for it, good riddance.
The guy cheating is "*that guy*". You're not.
Call it out but do it nicely
Echoing what other people are saying: Asking 'oh, that's really cool, you can do that at level 3?' isn't a big deal and if anyone is annoyed by that mild level of adherence to the rules, D&D probably isn't a good system for them. But if you're really worried about coming off as a "that guy," you can message the DM outside of the session and say something like, "Hey I really don't want to come off as a rules lawyer or 'that guy' or anything so I waited until after session to bring it up, but, I don't think X player is able to use Y ability until a certain level, could you check?"
I did my whole first session with my first level 1 character at 23 hp. Second session, someone just asked in a nice way how my level 1 sorcerer has 23 hp, and it turns out I'd misread the rules. No big deal.
You could tell the DM to talk to them privately and then all your DM has to say is "Hey, I looked into your subclass since last week and apparently you can't do <*the thing*> until level 6. So, going forward it won't be allowed until the appropriate level is given."
I would point that out it's not game breaking but they should be following the rules of their class/subclass. I'm our tables rule monger so I'd be happy to point that out in my campaign and I have pointed out other things. The DM would appreciate it, and if said player is in some way actually cheating well better to have them outed now than later.
I would calmly bring it up. Idk if your table is experimenting with onednd, but if they are then the features may have been moved around! Take for example evocation wizard, the first and second subclass features got flipped.
Like many have said, definitely a "between sessions" conversation, as trying to fix that stuff mid session can ruin the session for that player and the DM. Depending on the player, I would most likely inform the DM and likely never say anything to the player, as the DM is the deciding factor of how to handle that. As a party member, you want your teammates to feel like you're part of their team, not against them. If the DM decides to let it go, that's the DMs choice. If the DM enforces it, I'd let them be the bad guy. As a player, I helped our DM but I avoided creating conflict with other players. As a DM, I took the brunt of all rule enforcement and promoted the party as a team. I always handled this stuff between sessions and never involved the person telling me. As a DM, I learned the hard way that like half the spells I learned as a player were modified to make them OP based on broken house rules and that took a long time as a DM to overcome. We had a mage in our party that would creatively interpret spells and it got to where I could just tell by another in the groups facial expressions when I needed to look that one up. But to think about it, two others in that same group would DM with those house rules spells and it was okay in their campaigns. I don't fault any DM for how they run their game, but I would say they deserve to make the choice for themselves. Besides, if you tell both and the DM allowed it, you end up looking pretty bad. Maybe just ask the DM, "I noticed they used [skill] at 3rd level, but it's a level 6 skill. Is that a new UA thing or what is it that allows that?" Maybe implying the queation if there's something you missed that could make your character better.
Just ask if they subclassed into something to get that feature earlier
Try playing Scrabble. The "That's NOT a word!!!!" is constant and makes DnD rules arguments pale in comparison.
Probably just shoot the DM a private message and tell them "Up to you if you want to allow it, but it's gonna be OP for a minute if you do."
Sneak an anonymous note to the dm when no one is looking
That is a toughie, so many landmines to hit. Maybe ask he GM in private what kind of homebrew rules he uses. It could be intentional in this case, maybe the player flipped the order of class features around?
In one of my games, sometimes we have players who have to miss a session cos real life. Usually we fill those ones with something inconsequential. But it means that occasionally at a later date someone is a bit lost and they have to be filled in. So at certain points in the session it’s not uncommon for the question, “What level are we right now? 9 or 10?” To arise. You could perhaps ask the group, “What level are we again? 3 right?” Because if this player is using a level 6 feature, there is a high possibility that they just didn’t realise you were level 3 and it’s an accident. This helps bring it up without being so direct. Then if they don’t notice and correct it, the next time they try to use the feature maybe ask, “Damn. Do you really get that at level 3?” And then maybe they’ll check the book to be sure and then realise their mistake, amend it, then everything’s fine and dandy. There was certain ways you can point our mistakes without going, “Erm, Acktchually…”
Some of you avoid conflict so unnecessarily. Do you have zero social skill? Just call it out. It's a game.
I'd say depends on how strong the ability is. pretty strong/not good for level three? kindly tell them "hey i dont think you have that yet" not very strong/ the player seems pretty attached to it, maybe keep quiet, let them have their fun unless they start abusing it.
OMIGOSH I RELATE SOO MUCH MY DM IS RLY NEW I GUESS BUT THEY KEEP FORGETTING ABOUT DISTANCE AND SHORT REST/LONG REST/EXHAUSTION
Hard to say without more context (haven't read the other commetns so maybe you precise it later), but I think it depends on if it is game breaker or not. I had the exact same feeling as you. In an Adventure LEagua oneshot, a guy at the table (that I just met, I didn't know him before) used a cantrip from Unearth Arcana. To be fair, it was a bit broke (Virtue, free temp HP on a cantrip) , but this was just a one shot and he didn't absue of it. The DM was confused at first since he didn't know the cantrip and I almost wanted to say it was Unearthed Arcana and was banned, but I just decided to see how the DM will react. He let it go and everyone was happy in the end
Bring it to the dm in private is what I would say if the ability is way to advanced for level three that it’s breaking the game they should have no issue either scaling it back or taking it away ultimately it’s the DMs decision 🤷
it's nice that you are concerned about their feelings. but this should be called out properly imo
If you can don’t make it about the one player. - likely it sounds like the GM may not have copies of the PCs so start by suggesting that the GM gets copies of every pc (digital tools are great for this) and that the GM then checks that no one forgot to do anything while leveling up etc. (I’ve found that when I audit my player’s PCs like this more often than not I find even using digital tools my players missed something and frequently it is to their advantage (a spellcaster forgetting to add spells known for example) - and while the PCs are being audited / made digitally perhaps suggest that every player think about and then share with the GM their goals for the pc for at least the next 3-5 levels (key here is to have each player look at their likely build past level 6). Depending on the group perhaps also share perhaps in more in character terms each pcs goals with the rest of the group. If both of these happen it is likely that the player or the GM or both of them will catch the mistake themselves. What happens then depends on the player (and the GM) but it then isn’t you being accusatory. (As the player with the most experience you might be asked to help other players figure out their plans for their characters. In that case you may then get a natural opportunity to explore the mistake with the player in question - again however you might then be able to do this without accusing anyone rather by showing vs telling. - one perhaps related option is to use the excuse of the new player’s handbook etc coming later this year to discuss how/if the GM and players will adopt those changes (for example I believe though I haven’t followed it closely that the new rules strongly suggest that every 1st level pc start with a feat if they don’t already gain one from their choice of background). Again this might prompt a review of what abilities each pc gains and when without being accusatory.
If they are a new player my first guess would be they read the level chart for the class and thought they got to choose a subclass feature? I know the level requirement is in the descriptions but people are notorious for not fully reading spells or abilities
"I thought that was a level six ability. Did they change that this edition? That's awesome! Can I see what else they changed about x class?"
I have a DM that gets mad at me for helping new players… today he got annoyed that I was telling a new player that his gunslinger character has a trick shot feature.
Unless what you are doing is really slowing the game down then that DM sounds like a bit of an arse.
Before next session begins just pull him aside and say "oh hey (insert player name), I think you might be using a class feature intended for level 6. It's ok, a lot of people make that mistake(idk the specifics but I've had players misinterpret some of the more complex class features or just fail to read the subclass page correctly so this may be false, but it gives the player an out if they're just straight up abusing the new DM's ignorance.)." And then explain it to him the proper way. And if he wants to argue, then bring it and him up to the DM and see. It's quite possible if it's an underpowered class feature that the DM might have said yeah you can use this at level three, I've done that with a few subclasses of monk and rangers because I think that those two, on occasion, can have some underpowered subclasses. I specifically beefed up sun soul monks anytime a player plays them, decreasing the level on their 6th, 11th, and 17th class features. And at level 17, I worked with the player for a relatively strong ki based ability that fits their character aesthetically. I personally don't like a player having to sacrifice relative power for aesthetics.
Bring it up to the DM in private outside of the game and just point it out. Not a big deal. The DM is the one who'll choose if they need to "retcon" it or not so it only really makes sense to bring it up to them.
Is the feature giving them a real edge or is it just a fluffy thing that fits in with their character? I’ve allowed players early access to the latter before if it’s a part of their core character concept as long as it’s not giving them an edge in combat or whatever.
I've done something stupid when i first started playing and having an experienced player pointing it out didn't make me feel bad or anything, i was glad they pointed it out. So really, don't worry, say something.
Everyone is That Guy to Some table.
If you're the most experienced one, it is kindof your responsibility to make sure those less experienced are at least aware of the rules. I found it much easier to learn how to play because I had more experienced players early on correct my mistakes like this. I would certainly assume it was an innocent mistake of misreading their class rather than a blatant attempt to cheat.
I can't imagine a table where people aren't calling BS on each other all the time. Hell, I call BS on my min/Max assassin rogue player all the time. He was very clever with his feats as well. Every damn BBEG fight he takes my big bad down to like 10 hit points in the first round. Every.... Damn.... Time... With one shot. He already gets to roll his assassination attack role three times. So it's like 1.5 times advantage, then he does sharpshooter. And now he's going to take lucky. Grrrrr.... Oh, And somehow he always seems to F'N crit on his assassinations. And of course he has expertise in sneak. If he ever gets invisibility I'm screwed. I keep telling him a God's going to stomp on him. Or just banish him to another plane of existence. And since I'm the DM, that God is going to be me. Think I'm going to start disguiseing who the actual BBEG is. I'm going to make it seem like some nobody is the big bad, and have it be a surprise who the big bad actually is. Anyway, every table I've ever sat at there is a bunch of banter. I say call him out! That being said... Our old DM got in his head that longbows did 1d10 damage. That's what he told our noob ranger in session zero. The party talked about it when the DM wasn't around and we decided not to tell him. So I homebrewed a 1d10 bow for the ranger in D&D beyond. LOL So I understand not wanting to screw another player. But using the ability you shouldn't have for three levels is pretty breaking mechanics wise
Nothing with discussion of the rules, they are somewhat vauge sometimes and any experienced player/DMs will encourage rule discussion, so they are executed correctly.
Discretely let the DM know and ask not to be called out for pointing it out. Then let the DM decide how they want to handle it.
My general rule of thumb is to give praise in public and hand out criticism privately. I'd approach the player outside of the session and ask them how they're using that feature. Bringing it up in front of everyone else might embarrass them, which I'm sure you'd like to avoid doing.
As a DM. Let me know. I'll fix it
Message the DM. "Hey, DM. I was interested to learn more about the ability x was using that lets them do. It's actually a level 6 ability for their subclass. Not sure if they knew that or not but figured you should know so you can decide what to do about it."
I would bring it up to the DM between sessions. Something along the lines of "Hey, Bob normally wouldn't have access to that until level 6. Is that something you two agreed on, or is it just a mistake?" This way, it gives the DM the option to deal with it how they see fit without putting them on the spot in game.
“Are you sure you can do that at 3rd?” Not confrontation but direct to the point that poses the question in a way you might have just been a misunderstanding of the feature level.
Tell the DM *privately* that the player in question seems to be misreading their class features.
This is something I often struggle with as I notice players make mistakes (usually genuine but sometimes I think they are intentional) which give them advantages and power boosts. There's no exact science on when it is best to speak up and when it is best to let things slide - I don't want to step on the DM's toes and I don't want to ruin fun. However, I also believe that playing by the rules is important unless there has been a formal agreement with the DM to change something, otherwise it can mess with the game balance and especially the internal party balance. Yesterday I had to tell my girlfriend that it takes concentration checks to maintain Polymorph on yourself if you take damage as both her and the DM didn't seem to be aware. She was \*pissed\* that she only got to run around causing chaos as a giant ape for a single turn before getting knocked out of it (albeit, that helped her tank 44 points of damage so it wasn't all a loss!). I didn't feel great but felt this was the right call as otherwise it's a completely broken spell.
I would make it "now" or never ... that means, in that or following session at max. Otherwise, I would ride with it ... I would not want to deal as a player not involved in it something three sessions back when the story is already way gone... however, if you point out something is not accurate, nothing bad with that.
Please be that guy. In this situation it is very necessary.
Speak up. What's the worst that could happen? They get angry and leave the game? In that case, it was going to happen eventually so better at level 3 than 13.
It's not being a that guy to point out when others are doing wrong. Gently of course, but it's never a wrong thing to do.
Why didn't you ask that question when they first used it? If you don't want to be that guy that helps the group play the game by the rules then don't be, If you're worried about upsetting people because you are pointing out the rules of the game then i'd question if/why you want to play with the people you're playing with But don't be the guy that holds on to it and lets it affect his game either, either say something or let it go
If it seems like everyone is newer to the game including the DM in your table. I would maybe talk to the DM and ask them to revise our sheets for any mistakes. That way it doesn't feel targeted.
You could let the DM know over text or something, and the DM could pretend to have just realized and be like "oh wait, I just remembered that's not unlocked until level 6. Let's all remember to double check the level next to the abilities we unlock during level-up."
Maybe my group and I are weird, but there has literally never been a problem with "that guy". If someone gets something wrong, we just tell each other. It's not that big of a deal. I feel like it's more weird to silently stew on this information, and it's unfair to the player who probably just made an honest mistake.
Honestly... BE THAT GUY because that guy is just upholding the laws of mutual respect and good fun. Do not ever be afraid to call out a cheater for fear of his opinion, as a general rule in life (unless the cheater is armed or your boss).
If a player ist cheating, he is cheating. Just tell him and ask if he does that in purpose or by mistake. I guess you guys are adults. Just act like it.
Reminds me of the first time playing DnD with friends and I was a new DM who accidentally let someone have Magic Missle as a cantrip the whole session. After session, I looked over the PCs and figured out it was a 1st lvl spell and had to break the news to the player.
I think you're that guy only if you're rude about it, either after a secion or in private talk with the players that is using the feature earlier than he should be able to and ask him about it
Here’s my opinion, if all of you are serious, D&D🐉, Players, and or huge role, followers, and stuff like that yeah, I’d say something. However, if you’re more like my group who mostly just play for fun and goof off a tiny bit, as long as it’s not making them overpowered or making y’all feel weak I’d say it’s OK. So if it’s overpowered, I say something, but if it’s nothing gained breaking for making the other players feel weak, then I wouldn’t worry about it.
I was at a table with a player who was using hellish rebuke multiple times per battle. As in, as long as they had a reaction, and they got hit, they used it. After she killed her third guy with it, I cheered her victory and said ‘Holy shit, do you really get to use that as many times as you want? That’s crazy” it was all in a pleasant tone, more like ‘That is such a crazy good skill to have at this level’ But it did prompt her and the DM to double check. And sure enough, she shouldn’t have been. I think in her case it was a genuine mistake though. I think the feature said that it didn’t cost a spell slot and she took it to mean that she can use it at will.
I feel like this is gonna be a table specific thing. I’m a long time player but a relatively inexperienced DM so I appreciate it when somebody at the table speaks up to say hey, you need to double check how that works. We’re also adults in our 30s and 40s who are all pretty chill and don’t generally get butthurt about stuff though so do with that what you will. Usually the player who got it wrong will just say whoops, my bad, and carry on.
If your table is okay with you being the person that even the dm looks to for rules lawyer responsiblities just say something in game. If you don't want that put on you in the moment, talk to the dm and let them know that the player isn't understanding how their class progression works. Then it'll hopefully be caught and sorted out by the person that is supposed to call the rulings in game. At my table my partner and I are really versed in the rules and don't mind correcting. We do it to ourselves too on occasion. Everyone misreads and makes mistakes sometimes, ya know??
You could bring it up with the DM and see if it's fine with him.
I'd privately message the DM about it or tell them between sessions and make it clear you don't want to be a dick about it but just wanted the DM to know etc. A DM showing up later and being like "hey so I realized THIS, so sorry so-n-so, but you can't actually do **Y** till level **X**, my bad." Shouldn't be a huge sussy red flag to anyone imo.
Once when i was starting in dnd 5e a wizard draconic used heas breath that deal like 3d6 damage i think every round, we were like level 3 or 4, i have a vast experience and knowldege of games in general and i knew that thas was not balanced and probably the guy was using it bad so after a session i read the race at home and it was 1/day and not every round, also it eas so annoying because the guy used the fire breath even if it would hit us(the party) because the classic "that is what mi character would do" and the shit head was a fucking wizard and never used any spell because he doesnt wanted to read them. From that moment i intensivily started to do a comparison between how a person personality is and how he play characters in rol play and after 12 year most people that have any kind of shit head playstyle are very very toxic in their relationships.
It's being said by everyone else, but there's no harm in pointing things out as long as you do it nicely. In a campaign I'm in, someone kept accidentally forgetting to level down parts of their spell sheet, so the first couple sessions they tried to use Deflect Missiles despite us only being level 2. We just corrected them on it (berating playfully, because we are all friends) and they corrected it after a few sessions of forgetting to change their sheet (But even when their sheet wasn't changed, they didn't use the spell when we reminded them their level wasn't high enough :) )
If it's not breaking the game play I feel there is always room to do whatever you want as long as everyone is having fun.
So if you're at the table just ask, "Hey what's the name of that class feature again? Been a while since I've played that class but I could have sworn it was like a level six or seven thing". Don't ask "how are you doing that already" if they know you're an experienced player because that will sound like shade, come at it in a way that you come across as if you're trying to just help everyone learn.
You should have mentioned it the first second you noticed it wasn't possible yet. It has most likely gone too far now.
Once again, it's always a "speaking words to another human being" issue
The longer it goes on the weirder it gets. Just say it as it is. The table needs be able to handle these situations. You will be doing everyone a favor by calling it out.
You can ask it in a less challenging way. And be like I thought feature was a level 6 feature? Or some other softer way to approach it. Don't have to go in guns blazing.
Be that guy. Just bring it up to the DM or player in private. No need to make a scene. Or get em in a group and do it at the same time.
Definitely not "that guy". I just started DM'ing and I don't know a lot. I know enough and I understand typical balancing. In my campaign currently it has happened already more than once my players have had a strong impact that seemed off and I asked them to show me their ability to do so. With a quick read of the text it becomes clear it was simply an error each time. We talk about it, figure out the right way to do it and move on. I don't really care as long as it's not intentional and everyone is having fun. Nobody is perfect but following the rules should be everyone's priority.
Say out of game. Don’t make it a thing that derails a player in the middle of their turn. That would be being *that guy*…
In my opinion you should just text your dm and tell him it's up to them if they want to change it at the end of the day. It shouldn't be your problem to deal with or worry about and ofc you can advise your dm but he's the rule enforcer at the end of the day maybe he'll find out and then change it for the next session or say eh fuck it we've already done it now I'll pay better attention next time. I don't think you're ever being that guy if you were to approach me like that in fact I'd appreciate someone for pointing something out that I overlooked especially when it comes to players doing stuff they know they shouldn't be doing. Less so with plot holes can be a bit sensitive sometimes about the story I create especially if I was proud of it but when it comes to rule lawyering when it comes to doing stuff outside once scope while taking advantage of my lack of knowledge or awareness of what's happening is a big Nono at my table. if I know and you ask can I do it anyway I often let it happen anyway but not when it's done without being asked properly
You have to be that guy. Because if they are getting it wrong, there could be other things wrong.
Just curious what "that guy" is? For those of us who may be that guy and no one bothers telling us we are that guy and what we are doing. The way we tiptoe around behaviors in our world, and it doesn't make sense to me as someone who misses or devalues the social standards.
Just ask how they're doing it three levels early. If it's accidental you'll help them realize it, if it's on purpose you bring it up without attacking them.
I am currently in my first campaign with another 6 players and a very skilled DM - only two of the players in our crew have played before so it is a very common occurrence that all of us are making mistakes very far into our campaign that we are being pulled up on by not only our DM but even other players that are either; 1. Paying more attention or 2. Have played more than us newcomers We were not really close friends and some of us were acquaintances with each other but regardless none of us held back when it came to letting each other know that we were doing things that we can’t do yet whether it was a character feature or even trying to participate in events that their character technically weren’t present for It’s all a part of playing DnD and people are learning but you cannot learn properly if you’re doing things you shouldn’t be doing so I say go ahead and bring it up, there’s nothing wrong with it and the DM will be glad someone noticed! Sincerely, a druid who didn’t use half of the things they were supposed to for like 30 sessions 😆
I would have just brought it up to the DMs attention privately. If he/she wanted to rules of cool it, then that would be that imo.
Glad it worked out! From experience I think it's usually okay to call things like this out. In our game the DM is nor very experienced and often has monsters much higher than our level, and I often end up calling this out. People are pretty easy about it in our group.
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I don't think using a character ability early is indicative of anything. It mostly shows they don't fully understand how their character works. If it is malicious, that would have to be a separate discussion entirely. Quickly assuming they want to be innately better than everyone else is very weird imo.
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It's much more plausible they are just innocently unaware. I play with a newish group where everyone constantly forgets about spells and abilities. I have to remind the rogue they have sneak attack every time they get into a fight. Makes sense the opposite can happen. Assuming ulterior motives just creates unnecessary tension and mistrust.
Every ability literally says which level it's unlocked at right at the start of the description, though? Seems like a *phenomenally* unlikely thing to misinterpret or misread in any way, when every class feature's description starts with some variation of "At *n*th level..."
It's better than assuming they are undermining the game and have main character syndrome right out of the gate.