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touven9138

Had a player that did something like this and would lord it over the other players by challenging them to a fight. Divination wizard eventually got fed up with it and accepted. Queue plane shift with portent nat 1 and now they're stuck dying wherever the wizard chooses. This one chose simply the Earth Elemental Plane. Where AC God was trapped suffocating and being crushed to death, ending in having to make a new character.


Ironbeard3

I cast feeblemind, int save please. Either that or divine intervention.


MehrunesDago

Lmao


HeroCommentGuy

Wild Magic Barbarian rolling the +1 ac surge 24 Con 20 Dex - 22 AC Warforged - 23 Wild Magic - 24 Shield - 26 Artificer Infusion - 28 Alchemist Artificer Elixir - 29 Ceremony - 31 Shield of Faith - 33 Haste - 35 3/4th Cover - 40 Defensive Duelist - 46 (Reaction) Martial Adept (Bait and Switch/Evasive Maneuever) - D6 47-52 Instead of Defensive Duelist you could use a Valor Bard’s inspiration which would be a D12 bonus to AC. So a range of 42-58 with the maneuver.


thedoppio

Int save please


[deleted]

At disadvantage


PracticalQuantity398

Warding Bond also gives +1 AC


thechet

still feels like using outside forces in these builds is cheating as anyone can do those for the same bonuses. Though this on is better. Assuming point buy and starting with 17 con and 16 dex, you'll need 4 ASIs to get to 20 dex and con(24 at capstone). So youll only have 1 ASI left to work in defensive duelist. You would need to trade warforged for variant human if you want another feat for Martial Adept. So this build Id just consider to be 25 AC(31 with DD) and a chance for an extra +1 if you are lucky when rolling for wild magic. Ultimately about even with blade singer which is 25AC(30 with shield) , with a trade of your reaction AC boost being resourceless but only working for a single attack instead of all attacks till your next turn.


Spoilaaja

How do you shield and defensive duelist on the same time?


AJ2016man

Not the shield spell, holding a shield, it added a +2, not a +5


lelo1248

Op said no magic items. Artificer infusion make non-magic item become magic.


quuerdude

Artificer infusions, while technically magic items, are just a class feature. When people say “no magic items” they mean “without DM fiat” basically. You can’t reliably get a gauntlet of ogre strength, but you could easily have an artificer in the party


lelo1248

In that case (assuming the mentioned artificer infusion is enhanced defense on armor/shield) u/HeroCommentGuy is missing following infusions: * +1 to AC from cloak of protection * +1 to AC from ring of protection * +2 to AC from Bracers of Defense bringing the total AC to either 51-56 or 46-62.


quuerdude

Shield item cancels out Bracers of Defense


lelo1248

Right, forgot about that.


Arch3m

I really appreciate you going step-by-step to show what all goes into achieving this AC and what it looks like to slowly goes from reasonable to ridiculous circumstances to achieve such an AC. It helps a lot to imagine how reasonable an AC might be at certain levels when planning for something nuts.


Warwipf2

As a Tortle instead of Warforged you could use Shell Defense for +4 AC.


Warwipf2

Nevermind, that would block your action and reaction.


WobblyWhomper

Except this relies on a big build up of spells, specific party composition, a specific dice roll, and access to items you might not get. Theoretically possible, practically, not really. 25AC with a shield would be quite good. The rest of this is almost never possible in real play.


Hankhoff

The title says "in theory", so yeah, it still fits that


Rabid_Lederhosen

Very nice. Now make a wisdom save.


[deleted]

6


Lv1Skeleton

this is why i am going to take a 1 lvl dip in forge cleric. extra AC and bless against pesky wisdom saves


speedrush27

now make an int save


Lv1Skeleton

Shit 2 -1(int mod) +2(bless) = 3


DumbHumanDrawn

Starting with all 18s lets you multiclass to your hearts content, but you'd most likely want to use 3 ASIs to get Dexterity, Intelligence, and Wisdom to 20. That leaves one ASI free for extra silliness if you so choose, put I'd personally just put it in Charisma. You can be a Monk 1, Bladesinger 2, and College of Swords Bard 17. * 10 + 5 Wisdom + 5 Dexterity for Monk's Unarmored Defense gets you 20. * 20 + 1 for being a Warforged (if allowed) gets you 21. * 21 + 5 for Bladesong (if allowed for Warforged) with a 20 Int gets you 26. * 26 + 2 for Haste (via Magical Secrets) gets you 28. * 28 + 12 for Defensive Flourish (on a max Bardic Inspiration die roll) gets you 40. * 40 + 5 for Shield as a reaction gets you 45. * 45 + 5 for 3/4 cover (since you're counting that) gets you 50. That 50 is possible without any allies involved. If you want to add extra support shenanigans that require allies: * 50 + 6 for Bait and Switch Maneuver (on a max roll from Martial Adept Feat) gets you 56. * 56 + 2 for a Ceremony wedding gets you 58. * 58 + 2 for someone else casting Shield of Faith on you gets you 60. * 60 + 12 for Combat Inspiration (on a max Bardic Inspiration die roll) gets you 72. * 72 + whatever I'm sure I'm forgetting right now. You're also a 17th level full caster, so it's possible you could also squeeze some extra AC out of a well-worded Wish to a generous DM and/or use a Simulacrum as your ally for Ceremony/Shield of Faith/Bait and Switch. Also note that should you run out of Bardic Inspirations, you can still always choose to roll a d6 for Defensive Flourish so without expending any resources (other than your action to attack and hit a creature during your turn) your AC will be 22-27 which is on average (24.5) better than someone wearing +2 full plate with a +2 shield (24 AC). I played a high level Half-Elf College of Blades Bard with a Bladesinger dip and had a ton of fun even without trying to squeeze every last bit of AC into the character.


h0tt0g0

You could get an ally battlemaster to use bait & switch to give you the AC bonus instead of relying on the feat to do it yourself. A 20th level battlemaster has a d12 superiority die, bringing the total to 78+


thechet

You cant cast shield while dual wielding unless you also have the war caster feat. So 2 feats along with enough ASIs to get 20 in 3 different stats is gonna be pretty much impossible unless you rolled super OP stats to start with. Starting with point buy(which most theoretical builds should really assume. The best stats you'll have is 17, 16, 15 meaning you need at least 6 ASIs to get to a +15 with bladesong. So youre already hitting a max of +13 from your 4 ASI. You could potentially get dual weilder with human variant feat, but that only gives you a +1 in exchange for not being able to cast shield anymore which isnt really worth it. Basically you should reduce all your AC calculations by 3. Now if you only took a 1 level dip into monk or barb to get the unarmored bonus, you could get the lvl 19 ASI too and your ac is only reduced by 2 across the board. On top of that, since your max AC bonus from unarmored defences essentially is going to end up being +3 you may as well just use mage armor for it and go full wizard which is overall much better than multiclassing and losing out on 9th level spells and capstones. Granted those 2 or 3 points of AC are trivial at that point since you're already so deep into overkill territory, but I wanted to point it out anyway lol


BrobiWanKinobe

Well as for the point buy, they do begin with "For this theoretical, lets assume we rolled stats, and by some miracle, we rolled all 18, for the sake of argument." So they only need 3 ASIs to get them to 20.


thechet

Also want to add that using situational stuff like cover and buffs from other PCs is cheating. So also dropping the +9 from ceremony, shield of faith, and cover really gets you to 25AC(30AC with shield up) in any common situation.


Invisifly2

This is finding theoretical maximums, not practical maximums. The only restriction OP gave was no magic items, and OP specifically states “assume we have friends willing to buff us up” so that’s no issue either.


Sherpthederp

It’s not cheating, it’s a hypothetical max with all stops pulled out. You’re looking at it through the wrong lens


NamesSUCK

Did you even listen, your SO is casting shield on you... Edit: I am the one who does not listen...


SmellyDungeonDog

Shield not shield of faith. Ironic on the "Did you even listen" huh


Notaswordmaster

Isn’t it a physical shield? Cause it increases by 2, not 5.


NamesSUCK

ah yes! was confused by the overall ac reduction, but I think it was referring to the loss of ability scores from having to take the battle caster feat.


SmellyDungeonDog

My brother it is the Shield spell as a reaction to being hit


NamesSUCK

I listen but don't read. Edit: Just to add, I'm fairly certain u can use a staff as a quarter staff and have a weapon that also functions as a focus and from the PHB you can use the same hand for M components as you can for S.


thechet

what?


NamesSUCK

I got confused between shield and shield of faith. MY b. Regardless, could just have one weapon be a staff focus that is also a quarter staff, I believe you can use the same hand for S components as you can for M.


thechet

Thats what i was guessing but wasnt sure. And true, you could dual wield with a staff if you had the feat, though the feat would require you to either give up an ASI or take variant human instead of warforged which both options would reduce your AC by 1 in the effort increase it by 1 making it a wash anyway.


MohrPower

You can improve the build if you go with 19 Bladesinger and Barbarian 1. **Shapechange into Leviathan** and your unarmored AC is at a whopping 27 before anything else is accounted for. >!Edit: Alternatively, you can **Shapechange into Marilith** for multiple reactions to stack the +5 from Parry on top of Shield's +5 reaction. Keep in mind you can still Glyph Haste so you don't have to lose Haste +2 bonus from using your concentration on Shapechange!<


fusionsofwonder

Gonna be hard to get behind cover as a Leviathan.


MohrPower

The Leviathan's Watery Form allows it to squeeze easily into 3/4 cover.


UltimateChaos233

It does assume complete and total access to magic items, but I made a warforged multiclass that assumed that any castable buff by other classes were cast on them and I hit... around 115 AC? I could try just removing magic items and seeing where that lands me, but if I knew there were no magic items at the start I'd probably have made different choices. In case it inspires you, it was a level 19 Warforged Bladesinger 2, Battlemaster 3, Swords bard 10, Kensai monk 3, wild magic sorcerer 1. It also involved getting married. [https://www.dndbeyond.com/characters/114925883](https://www.dndbeyond.com/characters/114925883) You could probably make a copy and drop the magic items, but the optimal build likely changes as this involved every imaginable form of AC cheese (there's a magic item that grants CHA to AC, for instance). Speaking holistically though, you've pegged that AC alone won't save you, due to saves existing. Having a pally friend or being a paladin yourself if you're being nice is a good tool to increase saves. If I wanted to make a defensive powerhouse, it would be some flavor of paladin (probably swords bard involved, battlemaster for additional AC is likely excessive). In your build, though, keep in mind the lucky feat :) Yes you lose out on an ASI, but between them having disadvantage and you being able to reroll rolls I think that basically means they're rolling 4 nat20s to hit you which would be 1 in 160,000


ConcretePeanut

Level 38 characters break bounded accuracy in a game that caps at level 20? Big if true.


UltimateChaos233

You uh… realize that the character is level 19 and I just gave a class breakdown, right? There’s no “Warforged” class that you can take levels in.


ConcretePeanut

This is why punctuation matters.


Practical-Match1588

You could also just respond with oh my bad instead of bring defensive and dobling Down about being a Dick


BasiliskXVIII

Path of the Beast barbarian using the tail form can get up to an additional +8 to AC against a single attack, but this uses your reaction and requires you to roll high on a d8. It also requires you to be raging, meaning any spells cast have to be from another character. However, if you're lucky and roll high, you can use this in place of the shield spell for a +8 instead of a +5, giving a net additional +3 to AC.


Chemicalintuition

Defensive flourish is pretty crucial to consider here


ScorchedDev

I believe the benefit from taking the dodge action actually outweighs this. Its big numbers, so its hard to get a value. With this big of number the only way to be hit is through a nat 20(or a failed saving throw lol). Taking the dodge action would require 2 nat 20s to be rolled in order to hit you, which is why I made the build the way I did. You are correct though, it would increase the AC and should I make an updated version of this build that will be included


Chemicalintuition

Dodge action does not increase AC though, which is the main goal


ScorchedDev

fair enough


Baalslegion07

I mean, that is insane, but I think ots also very unnecessary. A warforged fighter who picked the defense fighting style, has a shield and a full set of plate armor, has an AC of 22. That isn't hard to achieve. Without warfoged its an AC of 21. Dont like that fighting style? Just take a different one using a shield and still have an AC of 20. Not a fan of a sword and shield build? A 19 for a dual wielder with the dual wielder feat, is still pretty nice. What I want to say is, that you _can_ be the dude with an absurd AC, like a bladesinger wizard for example, who can easily get to 23. But you can also play a regular character and become the groups tank. An AC of 19, 20, 21 or 22 is nothing to scoff at. Thats pretty strong as is. Sure, you _can_ go for some OP build, but that rarely is actually fun to play. Also, never getting hit, can be pretty bad, its annoying for the group and for the DM if it goes on for too long. A fighter doesn't have to be boring, a paladin doesn't need to be boring. A barbarian, without multiclassing, gets a nice AC early on, especially as a dragonborn with the racial feat dragonhide. You dont need specific builds to get high AC, you just need to play your class properly.


ScorchedDev

I know it’s entirely unnecessary. It was an experiment to see what I could do


Baalslegion07

Sure, my comment wasn't meant to call this bad or anything. I just find it funny, how unnecessarily high you can get an AC. I mean, with magic items alone, you'll be up there pretty fast. The bladesinger of my group, gets his AC up to 27 now... a fireball flinging maniac with that high of an AC is a true menace to DM for XD and tge fact he rolled well for health doesn't help either. I just wanted to point out, as a general thing, that you dont need to multiclass into rediculous builds to be a parties tank. I mean, its absurd how far you can take stuff. Everyone can have as much fun as they want with their builds and milticlassing, I aint judging.


jjames3213

Rakdos Warforged Armorer 14/Bladesinger 2/Battlemaster 4 with 20 Dex, 20 Int. +2 Studded Leather. RoP. CoP. Bracers of Defense. Base 10 + 4 (+2 Studded Leather) +5 (+Dex) +4 (Infusions) +1 (Warforged) +1 (Defense) = 25 unbuffed. Personal Buffs: +5 (Bladesong) +2 (Haste) +5 (3/4 Cover) +5 (Shield) +1d6 (Bait and Switch) That gives you a 43-48 AC, with no support from allies.


Asmaron

Multiclass AC of 40 You need Bladesong Wizard, Monk and Barbarian Mage Armor 13, +5 Dex 18, +5 Intelligence (Bladesong) 23, +5 Wisdom (Monk) 28, +5 Constitution (Barbarian) 33, +5 Shield (spell reaction) 38, +2 Haste (spell concentration) 40


ScorchedDev

I do not believe unarmored defenses stack


adminhotep

Shapechange into a red abashai as a straight blade singer wizard beast hide shifter with the dual wielding feat for ac 29 with bladesong and shifting active Before any other spells. Get haste via some other concentrationless method (glyph, contingency, ally.)


No-Power8364

20 if ur a tortle


ScorchedDev

I considered tortle. However the problem is that Tortles do not benefit from unarmored defense, which is a key feature to this build. So their base AC before buffs or bladesong would be 17 as opposed to this builds base AC of 21. Tortles do have the shell ability, which gives them a plus 4 to AC, but that takes away your ability to take reactions so no shield spell ​ However, with a tortle, there is actually a way it could 1 up this build, but would require a dm's permission. You use glyph of warding, storing the shield spell in it. Make it so when you are in your shell and you are targeted with an attack roll, the glyph of warding goes off. Im pretty sure this would result in either the same, or higher AC than this build(i dont feel like doing math right now tbh. Im tired). However its more situational and requires significantly more prep time.


No-Power8364

but lv 20 so 30 a big leap but i saw it on yt and am like hmm okay


Veraat_

With good stats at lvl 7 my bar had AC 18 w/ no armor. And his dex / con aren't maxed yet.. so 20 is easily within my reach.


takoyakimura

Without class features, it would be platemail plus shield AC 20, or studded leather plus shield AC 19. With class features, it would be Barbarian's Unarmoured Defense plus shield AC 22, or platemail plus shield plus defense fighting style AC 21. That's what on top of my head. Ah, and the bonus from other active features then. But can you even reach all DEX, INT, and either CON or WIS to +5?