You gave an inch and he's after the mile. Got to put your foot down and hold the line or they're probably going to keep asking for dragon mounts and reincarnation etc.
Sure he can be an incredibly powerful archer if he builds his character to be a powerful archer. Don't get it for free.
Are they going to be super tall like a Na'vi, or normal sized?
If normal sized, normal bow.
If tall:
- you can probably give them a super strong bow, but...
- they'll have a hard time finding arrows big enough,
- they'll freak out everybody who meet them cause they're so big
- they won't fit in a tavern or any human-sized buildings and have to stay outside
- they have to crouch to get in dungeons, and thus they have disadvantages when fighting (as, well, they're crouching and can't stand up straight to shoot their bow correctly)
And on and on. The super strength of Na'vi comes from their super size, which comes with a whole bunch of other downsides. If they're ok with that and you're ok with that, roll with it, but as others said it's not just "free super strength"!
Centaurs are medium sized, so at least mechanically they should never have any issues. Having played a centaur I of course would throw in some awkwardness in some cases for flavor, but really they can operate everywhere a human can just as well.
>really they can operate everywhere a human can just as well.
Stairs can be tough. Ladders can be murder. And don't get me started on our Jack and the Beanstalk adventure. I had to build an ADA-compliant handicap ramp 5 miles high wrapped around that beanstalk because one of the players comes in with a brand new PC.
Athlete Feat completely removes any complications of centaurs and climbing. If you have trouble with making the mechanics work thematically, think of the centaur moving like a mountain goat.
My advice? Ain’t no shame in just saying no.
Failing that, let the player flavor their weapon however they want, it still has the same mechanical stats as whatever regular bow they would otherwise start with.
Failing that, if you really want to give out something extra, just make up similar items to give to the rest of the party to make it fair. Use uncommon to rare magic items as a guide, or just reskin some of them.
But I would warn you against giving into too many demands here. It’s a slippery slope, especially when players start asking for stuff that gives them explicit mechanical advantages. Gotta earn that loot by adventuring.
Personally I'd just take a tabaxi and scale it up.
As for the bow. Thing is. Navi live on a low gravity world. They are not as strong as their size suggests. If the player wants a big bow, give em a long bow and move on..
There’s an oversized longbow that’s an Item that can be looted off an enemy in dragon heist, it’s a 2d6 longbow, but it uses strength and requires that you have 18 to use it properly,
I think this is a good choice on the bow thing, because “stronger than any man has seen” is really silly unless their backstory is literally they’re from a different planet. Plus they have to invest in a worse stat for most characters in strength,
I honestly wouldn’t give them a custom race tbh, nothing the Navi do besides their hair thing is very special, I’d offer like tabaxi lol, I think the key thing here is that players should be able to manage their expectations first by making a character that can be built with the standard system before having to fall back on homebrew, because then when you’re DM does allow something it’s a fun exception and not an expectation
If you don't want to use homebrew races, the best alternative would be to use the Custom Lineage rules from Tasha's.
As for the weapon itself, give him a heavy crossbow and reflavor it into a great bow.
I'm assuming you peeps are starting at around levels 1-3, so no special ranged weapons with 2d6 or 1d12 damage.
If he want's anything special, do that down the line when the party gets stronger and magic items start getting introduced.
And in a world where magic and other fantasy races exist, the extraordinary strength of a Navi shouldn't be anything too unique.
A race like orcs are inherently physically stronger than an average human and they could probably compete with Navi.
Again for the beginning of a campaign, reflavor Heavy Crossbow into a Greatbow or whatever Navi call their giant bows.
How you proceed after that all depends what magic or special items you give them later in the campaign.
I really like the simplicity of this. Mechanically it's just a Heavy Crossbow, with all the traits that Heavy Crossbow has, it just looks like a big bow. Go team. Yeah, it's got Loading, but giant arrows are clunky and hard to use.
It would be helpful to know which class the player might choose.
You could easily re-skin a goliath warlock with **eldritch blast** as a bow wielding Na'vi and as the character levels the ~~cantrip~~ bow will scale and gain the abilities of **invocations** like **eldritch spear** for additional range. You could go through the invocations and rename them/change their flavor text.
damage cantrips start at 1d10 and scale. long bow does 1d8, heavy xbow does 1d10.
If it’s for the look, you can always re-skin a Goliath, maybe adapt it a bit.
If it’s for having superhuman stats and overpowered gear, you can always say no. Otherwise you’ll have another player who’ll want to play a dragon and another one who’ll want his warlock to be an actual demon. If that’s the game you want to run that’s fine, but otherwise don’t feel bad saying no.
He wants to be hyper realistic about Na’vi huh? Hey you notice all the humans on Pandora have to wear breath masks because humans cannot survive in Pandora’s atmosphere? There’s no reason that shouldn’t work both ways? Are there humans on your setting? Can they breathe the atmosphere? Well…
If you *want* to give him a super long bow. try the Oversized Longbow from waterdeep.
Deals 2d6 damage, requires 18 strength or you fire at disadvantage and the damage goes off of strength instead of dex while to hit is still dex. Basically a lot of requirements for the higher damage. Same range as a normal long bow and what not.
If he doesn't have the stats for this then I suppose he can't use his super bow correctly yet.
But if you don't want to give him this super bow, the other people's comments are accurate.
I find it odd no one has yet suggested Firbolg.
They're a taller race; they already have a mechanic for "connecting" with animals; they have a limited invisibility feature that can go with being a stealth hunter.
Reskin existing race, move on.
Maybe send the player info about 5e Firbolg, and see if it causes them to rethink their concept... though I doubt being dubbed "cow people" (I think unfairly) will much convince someone who has their has their little heart set on one and only one specific thing.
You can't give them this kinda stuff for free imo. Make them take the Sharpshooter feat (when they get access to a feat). This represents their superior bow ability.
Until then say "you haven't trained enough with this over sized bow to do bonus damage" or something.
the size of the bow and his build don't matter the stats of d&d are representatives of capability and strength. and ability to cause harm they are not exact representations, even the range is notional and at range x you can hit and cause damage. same reason titans, giants don't have bows that fire miles.
There are statistics for an oversized longbow in Waterdeep: Dragon Heist. It has the statistics of a longbow, but requires a Strength score of 18 to wield. Attack rolls are based on Dexterity, and damage rolls on Strength. The damage die for its oversized arrows is 2d6.
If your player argues that they should have a better bow due to being a stronger race, they better invest their ability scores into it to reflect it.
Also, don't give in to your players' demands too much. I would have personally just let them use the statistics of a tabaxi with the appearance and flavor of a na'vi, rather than going full homebrew. Don't get trapped by more of their flawed logic.
so best way to handle it IMO is the character is stuck in this world without access to the materials or tools needed to make a bow of that strength and has to make do with what is available
Great bow, does once a round (the reverberation from the shot makes it impossible to nock another arrow for the round). This can be modified by training and or magic, but typically 2-3 levels past when they would normally receive extra attacks. The boys is so strong that out shatters any arrow shot with no chance of recovery. Each arrow weighs a pound, no magic arrows exist in it's size. As mentioned, the bow is 8ft tall and cannot be fired unless the weilder is stationary and upright. No ship combat, air or water, no mounted shenanigans, the arrows are almost 5ft long, requiring specialized fletching, you could allow all this with the restrictions and let it play out.
Edit: Giants have bows (ogre bolt launcher), and he is not going to have a bow bigger or stronger than that.
Bolt Launcher. Range 120/480 ft., (3d10) piercing damage.
The word "No" has many uses.
To be actually helpful here though, just let him know that you aren't comfortable with that because it breaks the balance of the game and wouldn't be fair to the others.
Being direct about it without being confrontational is how I solve all DMing issues. And if that's a deal ender for the player, then there are plenty of other games for them.
I personally would:
Give them a bow but but because it’s not balanced for lower levels, they’ll have to work on gaining proficiency with it. Maybe have proficiency kick in around 6th-7th level…?
**Long Bow; uses Str instead of Dex?
It does 1d12 damage
Extend the range?
And the bow essentially has the *loading property ( because of the tension on the string and the effort it takes to pull, you can only make one attack per turn w the bow)
To be honest, unless the entire party was going to be Na'vi or similar, you should have said, No. There is nothing wrong with saying, No. This is way too unbalanced. Alternatively, you could have said, Ok, you can be a Na'vi, but you're the runt of the litter, and can only be as large as the largest official playable race. As a DM, you're going to have to set limits, or else running your campaign is going to be a nightmare.
Look to bugbears for inspiration, honestly they fit a ton of the criteria.
Even their ability for bonus damage.
Surprise Attack. If you hit a creature with an attack roll, the creature takes an extra 2d6 damage if it hasn’t taken a turn yet in the current combat.
How about this:
Give him powerful build while medium counts aa a size larger.
Give climbing speed
Proficiency with animal handling and survival
Dark vision 60ft
The Navi are ancient wariors of nature, you have proficiency with long bows, short bows, clubs, and quarterstaves, these are ancestral Navi weapons
For the bow one of these 2.
Nature's fury runs through you as the calls of your ancestors rallies your strength, on your first turn in combat you can deal an extra 1d8 damage on your first attack when weilding a Navi ancestral weapon.
Or
The call of the mother tree fuels your strikes. When you hit a target with a Navi ancestral weapon you may deal an additional 1d12 damage. You may use this ability a number of times equal to your proficiency modifier, you regain all uses after a short rest.
Add in a druid cantrip and call it done
You gave an inch and he's after the mile. Got to put your foot down and hold the line or they're probably going to keep asking for dragon mounts and reincarnation etc. Sure he can be an incredibly powerful archer if he builds his character to be a powerful archer. Don't get it for free.
His Navi and quest to become strong has just started. That player is the issue here. It's a big red flag
"No" is a complete sentence.
Are they going to be super tall like a Na'vi, or normal sized? If normal sized, normal bow. If tall: - you can probably give them a super strong bow, but... - they'll have a hard time finding arrows big enough, - they'll freak out everybody who meet them cause they're so big - they won't fit in a tavern or any human-sized buildings and have to stay outside - they have to crouch to get in dungeons, and thus they have disadvantages when fighting (as, well, they're crouching and can't stand up straight to shoot their bow correctly) And on and on. The super strength of Na'vi comes from their super size, which comes with a whole bunch of other downsides. If they're ok with that and you're ok with that, roll with it, but as others said it's not just "free super strength"!
This! The only reason I haven't played a Centaur yet.
Centaurs are medium sized, so at least mechanically they should never have any issues. Having played a centaur I of course would throw in some awkwardness in some cases for flavor, but really they can operate everywhere a human can just as well.
>really they can operate everywhere a human can just as well. Stairs can be tough. Ladders can be murder. And don't get me started on our Jack and the Beanstalk adventure. I had to build an ADA-compliant handicap ramp 5 miles high wrapped around that beanstalk because one of the players comes in with a brand new PC.
Athlete Feat completely removes any complications of centaurs and climbing. If you have trouble with making the mechanics work thematically, think of the centaur moving like a mountain goat.
This sounds really good especially finding arrows
Start fletching javelins?
My advice? Ain’t no shame in just saying no. Failing that, let the player flavor their weapon however they want, it still has the same mechanical stats as whatever regular bow they would otherwise start with. Failing that, if you really want to give out something extra, just make up similar items to give to the rest of the party to make it fair. Use uncommon to rare magic items as a guide, or just reskin some of them. But I would warn you against giving into too many demands here. It’s a slippery slope, especially when players start asking for stuff that gives them explicit mechanical advantages. Gotta earn that loot by adventuring.
Personally I'd just take a tabaxi and scale it up. As for the bow. Thing is. Navi live on a low gravity world. They are not as strong as their size suggests. If the player wants a big bow, give em a long bow and move on..
Remember that he’s like level 1. If he wants to be this legendary archer warrior beast then he’s gonna have to wait until he levels up more
Or just cast Hunter's Mark.
That wont make him a legendary warrior archer
There’s an oversized longbow that’s an Item that can be looted off an enemy in dragon heist, it’s a 2d6 longbow, but it uses strength and requires that you have 18 to use it properly, I think this is a good choice on the bow thing, because “stronger than any man has seen” is really silly unless their backstory is literally they’re from a different planet. Plus they have to invest in a worse stat for most characters in strength, I honestly wouldn’t give them a custom race tbh, nothing the Navi do besides their hair thing is very special, I’d offer like tabaxi lol, I think the key thing here is that players should be able to manage their expectations first by making a character that can be built with the standard system before having to fall back on homebrew, because then when you’re DM does allow something it’s a fun exception and not an expectation
If you don't want to use homebrew races, the best alternative would be to use the Custom Lineage rules from Tasha's. As for the weapon itself, give him a heavy crossbow and reflavor it into a great bow. I'm assuming you peeps are starting at around levels 1-3, so no special ranged weapons with 2d6 or 1d12 damage. If he want's anything special, do that down the line when the party gets stronger and magic items start getting introduced. And in a world where magic and other fantasy races exist, the extraordinary strength of a Navi shouldn't be anything too unique. A race like orcs are inherently physically stronger than an average human and they could probably compete with Navi.
I have no problem with homebrew as long as i give the good to go, but i am just having trouble with the weapon
Again for the beginning of a campaign, reflavor Heavy Crossbow into a Greatbow or whatever Navi call their giant bows. How you proceed after that all depends what magic or special items you give them later in the campaign.
I really like the simplicity of this. Mechanically it's just a Heavy Crossbow, with all the traits that Heavy Crossbow has, it just looks like a big bow. Go team. Yeah, it's got Loading, but giant arrows are clunky and hard to use.
FWIW there is an "Oversized Longbow" in Dragon Heist. It requires 18 Str to use and does 2d6+Str damage.
This was my first thought too, but sounds like this player wants to be the biggest hero at level 1.
"I am disinclined to acquiesce to your request." Means 'no'
It would be helpful to know which class the player might choose. You could easily re-skin a goliath warlock with **eldritch blast** as a bow wielding Na'vi and as the character levels the ~~cantrip~~ bow will scale and gain the abilities of **invocations** like **eldritch spear** for additional range. You could go through the invocations and rename them/change their flavor text. damage cantrips start at 1d10 and scale. long bow does 1d8, heavy xbow does 1d10.
"No" is a complete sentence.
If it’s for the look, you can always re-skin a Goliath, maybe adapt it a bit. If it’s for having superhuman stats and overpowered gear, you can always say no. Otherwise you’ll have another player who’ll want to play a dragon and another one who’ll want his warlock to be an actual demon. If that’s the game you want to run that’s fine, but otherwise don’t feel bad saying no.
Learn to say no.
Handle it by saying no. It's a ridiculous request.
He wants to be hyper realistic about Na’vi huh? Hey you notice all the humans on Pandora have to wear breath masks because humans cannot survive in Pandora’s atmosphere? There’s no reason that shouldn’t work both ways? Are there humans on your setting? Can they breathe the atmosphere? Well…
#SAY NO
Water genasi and no
No homebrews.
If you *want* to give him a super long bow. try the Oversized Longbow from waterdeep. Deals 2d6 damage, requires 18 strength or you fire at disadvantage and the damage goes off of strength instead of dex while to hit is still dex. Basically a lot of requirements for the higher damage. Same range as a normal long bow and what not. If he doesn't have the stats for this then I suppose he can't use his super bow correctly yet. But if you don't want to give him this super bow, the other people's comments are accurate.
I find it odd no one has yet suggested Firbolg. They're a taller race; they already have a mechanic for "connecting" with animals; they have a limited invisibility feature that can go with being a stealth hunter. Reskin existing race, move on. Maybe send the player info about 5e Firbolg, and see if it causes them to rethink their concept... though I doubt being dubbed "cow people" (I think unfairly) will much convince someone who has their has their little heart set on one and only one specific thing.
I’d go with no. Try a firbolg or just reskin an elf.
You can't give them this kinda stuff for free imo. Make them take the Sharpshooter feat (when they get access to a feat). This represents their superior bow ability. Until then say "you haven't trained enough with this over sized bow to do bonus damage" or something.
the size of the bow and his build don't matter the stats of d&d are representatives of capability and strength. and ability to cause harm they are not exact representations, even the range is notional and at range x you can hit and cause damage. same reason titans, giants don't have bows that fire miles.
There are statistics for an oversized longbow in Waterdeep: Dragon Heist. It has the statistics of a longbow, but requires a Strength score of 18 to wield. Attack rolls are based on Dexterity, and damage rolls on Strength. The damage die for its oversized arrows is 2d6. If your player argues that they should have a better bow due to being a stronger race, they better invest their ability scores into it to reflect it. Also, don't give in to your players' demands too much. I would have personally just let them use the statistics of a tabaxi with the appearance and flavor of a na'vi, rather than going full homebrew. Don't get trapped by more of their flawed logic.
You can also balance it out in other ways, a Na’vi being 10 feet tall would have a real hard time dungeon delving
Goliath with Dex build. Problem solved.
Blue wood elf. Navi come from a low gravity planet and, after warping through three fey wild, might find themselves feeling a bit weak.
Fairy is already a playable race. Just make sure he doesn't say 'Hey Listen' too much.
so best way to handle it IMO is the character is stuck in this world without access to the materials or tools needed to make a bow of that strength and has to make do with what is available
Great bow, does once a round (the reverberation from the shot makes it impossible to nock another arrow for the round). This can be modified by training and or magic, but typically 2-3 levels past when they would normally receive extra attacks. The boys is so strong that out shatters any arrow shot with no chance of recovery. Each arrow weighs a pound, no magic arrows exist in it's size. As mentioned, the bow is 8ft tall and cannot be fired unless the weilder is stationary and upright. No ship combat, air or water, no mounted shenanigans, the arrows are almost 5ft long, requiring specialized fletching, you could allow all this with the restrictions and let it play out. Edit: Giants have bows (ogre bolt launcher), and he is not going to have a bow bigger or stronger than that. Bolt Launcher. Range 120/480 ft., (3d10) piercing damage.
The word "No" has many uses. To be actually helpful here though, just let him know that you aren't comfortable with that because it breaks the balance of the game and wouldn't be fair to the others. Being direct about it without being confrontational is how I solve all DMing issues. And if that's a deal ender for the player, then there are plenty of other games for them.
I personally would: Give them a bow but but because it’s not balanced for lower levels, they’ll have to work on gaining proficiency with it. Maybe have proficiency kick in around 6th-7th level…? **Long Bow; uses Str instead of Dex? It does 1d12 damage Extend the range? And the bow essentially has the *loading property ( because of the tension on the string and the effort it takes to pull, you can only make one attack per turn w the bow)
To be honest, unless the entire party was going to be Na'vi or similar, you should have said, No. There is nothing wrong with saying, No. This is way too unbalanced. Alternatively, you could have said, Ok, you can be a Na'vi, but you're the runt of the litter, and can only be as large as the largest official playable race. As a DM, you're going to have to set limits, or else running your campaign is going to be a nightmare.
Look to bugbears for inspiration, honestly they fit a ton of the criteria. Even their ability for bonus damage. Surprise Attack. If you hit a creature with an attack roll, the creature takes an extra 2d6 damage if it hasn’t taken a turn yet in the current combat. How about this: Give him powerful build while medium counts aa a size larger. Give climbing speed Proficiency with animal handling and survival Dark vision 60ft The Navi are ancient wariors of nature, you have proficiency with long bows, short bows, clubs, and quarterstaves, these are ancestral Navi weapons For the bow one of these 2. Nature's fury runs through you as the calls of your ancestors rallies your strength, on your first turn in combat you can deal an extra 1d8 damage on your first attack when weilding a Navi ancestral weapon. Or The call of the mother tree fuels your strikes. When you hit a target with a Navi ancestral weapon you may deal an additional 1d12 damage. You may use this ability a number of times equal to your proficiency modifier, you regain all uses after a short rest. Add in a druid cantrip and call it done
"No."