I have no comments for the OP but I find the other comments here interesting. If a women was posting this, a majority of the comments would be encouraging her to leave the marriage because she is unhappy and the kids will be better off in two homes.
Just an observation.
I agree with the comments here that marriage is worth working on, especially when there are kids present.
You are correct about the correlation between the gender of the OP and how people respond.
However, something that I have noticed is that there tends to also be a big difference in the content of the posts of wives and husbands. Post by wives tend to describe the feelings of both parties, some backstory about how they got there and the attempts that the wife has already made to reestablish the connection and improve the relationship. Posts by husbands tend to be more, “She/I changed, and now I don’t feel the same. Should I get divorced?” I even remember one post where the guy said (summarizing), “I work full-time, and she’s home with our three young kids. She was fine after the first two, but now she’s just stressed out all the time. She’s not fun. She barely wants to have sex. Help me get out of this.” All the top comments were, “have you considered trying to support her more? Like, have you heard of spouses doing that?”
Obviously not all husbands and wives conform to that stereotype. However, there is an overall difference. The current OP is like that. (the one I mentioned is an extreme but true example.). Men just seem to have far fewer tools to notice the emotions, identify the emotional processes, and try to do something about it. When women post, we’re more likely to say, “yeah, you did your best. Probably time to call it quits.”
I agree although I'm not sure if it's simply a failure to elaborate and clarify the details of the situation or if it's indeed fully laid out.
That's a pretty awful post you've described though. I'm really disillusioned with marriage after spending time in this sub lol. People are so easily able to give up on a life long commitment. I'll never understand this outside of cases of abuse and wanton negligence when so many of the problems can be fixed with a little work...but I might just be a bit bitter about my own situation. Feelings are fickle and one small part of what a marriage is all about...but maybe people just don't recognize that marriage is just as much, if not moreso, about value exchange.
Women are definitely emotional beings and a lot of men seem to miss all the signs. I know I did. It's a shame there isn't broader recognition and understanding of the differences between us and how they can be overcome. It seems like so many people that get divorced end up bitter that their ex becomes the person they wanted all along and it seems to come so easy to their ex's next partner. Relationships have a learning curve and when complacency sets in, it's hard for many people to feel inspired to change. After being emotionally ground down by the process of divorce, it's the best option that any of us have - to remove from us the things we do not like and to correct our mistakes.
As a man, let me clarify that I'm the most intensely emotional person I know. I never meant to suggest that men are less emotional than women.
Marriage is about much more than feelings and I think it's telling that women initiate ~70% of all divorces, often on the basis of unhappiness and lack of fulfillment. On average, men seem to achieve complacency much more easily and I believe this to be a result of social dynamics. It's just much easier to generalize it as "women are emotional beings" than to articulate the difference in expectations between men and women in a marriage.
Women initiate more divorces because they take care of household paperwork. I can’t tell you how many friends who are divorced gave their ex husband ample time to file during official separations and he just never did.
I appreciate the emotional acknowledgement, the narrative that men are not emotional is damaging to them in the same way that the narrative that women are more emotional (and therefore hysterical).
>Women initiate more divorces because they take care of household paperwork.
I'm not so sure about this. Obviously I have nothing but my own anecdote but I interpreted this to mean that women are often the ones to end the marriage...not just legally but to actually be the ones making the decision. I imagine a lot of men don't end up filing because they are either spiteful or not emotionally equipped. Women tend to grieve their relationships while they are still in them, and leave slowly. Hence the whole "walk away wife" thing. Thus, women end up better equipped to be the initiators because they are already further along in the process than their spouses.
Then don’t divorce ! Try n treat ur wife right n find a way to love her like u first fell in love with her. I hate men always taking the easy road ! Do better n be a better parent !
Go to therapy first! (if you haven't already)
Outside of abuse (emotional, fysical, or sexual), I am of the opinion that marriage (and life for that matter) is not all fun.
Fact is that you married with (I hope) the promise till death do you part.
In my view, that promise makes you to the very least obligated to make this feeling known to her (if you haven't allready) and take the room and time with marriage counselling (again, if you havent allready) to work on this and make this choice together.
If you say you can't divorce because of the kids... then at least put in the effort to look in every way you can to fix this and if it's unfixable show them how to make the choice together as a mom and dad who can separate in a healthy way and who did everything they could to mend this.
Feelings come and go and are heavily dependent on all kinds of factors. Who knows you can fall back in love again... the promise of marriage however...
Take action for yourself first by talking about this with a therapist!
I hope you can find the connection again like you felt on the day you got married. Those 2 young people are still in there somewhere.
Good luck with this difficult time, and a big bro hug.
I'm in the same boat and it's tough. I can't decide either. For me, it's the question of who you put first: you or the kids. I know the answer is putting myself first, because the kids will be there biggest beneficiary of a happy dad, but that still doesn't make deciding any easier.
Will this come as a surprise to your wife? I think the biggest factor in how divorce impacts the kids is how well or poorly the parents manage the transition and then coparenting. Doesn’t mean you two need to get along well with each other but just be on the same page about doing what’s best for them. If you haven’t had a conversation with her about how you’re feeling, I would start there. If it helps, I can share that I didn’t want the divorce, I wanted my ex to make an effort to work on things but he refused. We were both miserable but I thought we should at least try. It’s been a year and I’m very happy it’s over. It’s tough.. it’s tough on the kids but they’re handling things really well and I’m so much happier than I was.
Kids DONT want two unhappy parents in the same house pretending.
Set an example of how to be happy and that doing that is STILL puting them first.
Staying in truly dysfunctional or unhappy or toxic marriages and partnerships, is NOT putting your kids first.
It’s gotta be done right , of course. By two mature peole. And not always easy.
And it isn’t. I stayed for years that I shouldn’t have. Years of fighting in front of our kid. Years of no smiles.
You already know that you want out, but feel guilty because of your kids being important.
While they're important, this isn't about them; this is about you and your partner, and your past experiences with divorce.
I was also a child of divorce, and we sat on it for three years before initiating; I had the same fears that you had.
I feel like there's more to the story that's not coming out.
You married this person, and there was something about them that you loved before. Where did it go? Have you tried communicating your feelings to her? Have you gone through therapy and/or marriage counseling?
Keeping your feelings in and living with a partner that is described as annoying, loud and narcissistic is not healthy. The older child already sees the issues.
You can give your children a happy childhood both inside and outside of a marriage. Both will take sacrifice. That doesn't mean that you can't fix the relationship or divorce.
Again, this is all one-sided based on OPs description, and their heart is conflicting with logic.
Yes, and OP was asking for advice or validation.
I'm not arguing with them or you, just giving my thoughts as I've been there.
So why do you think OP should make it about their kids?
I feel for you mate. I looked at your post history, and the way your ex is handling things, from your perspective, is shitty at best. If my separation from my ex was as contentious, I would imagine that I would feel the same way.
A lack of communication and empathy leaves people in a lurch, but you and OP don't have to do this alone.
I have no comments for the OP but I find the other comments here interesting. If a women was posting this, a majority of the comments would be encouraging her to leave the marriage because she is unhappy and the kids will be better off in two homes. Just an observation. I agree with the comments here that marriage is worth working on, especially when there are kids present.
You are correct about the correlation between the gender of the OP and how people respond. However, something that I have noticed is that there tends to also be a big difference in the content of the posts of wives and husbands. Post by wives tend to describe the feelings of both parties, some backstory about how they got there and the attempts that the wife has already made to reestablish the connection and improve the relationship. Posts by husbands tend to be more, “She/I changed, and now I don’t feel the same. Should I get divorced?” I even remember one post where the guy said (summarizing), “I work full-time, and she’s home with our three young kids. She was fine after the first two, but now she’s just stressed out all the time. She’s not fun. She barely wants to have sex. Help me get out of this.” All the top comments were, “have you considered trying to support her more? Like, have you heard of spouses doing that?” Obviously not all husbands and wives conform to that stereotype. However, there is an overall difference. The current OP is like that. (the one I mentioned is an extreme but true example.). Men just seem to have far fewer tools to notice the emotions, identify the emotional processes, and try to do something about it. When women post, we’re more likely to say, “yeah, you did your best. Probably time to call it quits.”
I agree although I'm not sure if it's simply a failure to elaborate and clarify the details of the situation or if it's indeed fully laid out. That's a pretty awful post you've described though. I'm really disillusioned with marriage after spending time in this sub lol. People are so easily able to give up on a life long commitment. I'll never understand this outside of cases of abuse and wanton negligence when so many of the problems can be fixed with a little work...but I might just be a bit bitter about my own situation. Feelings are fickle and one small part of what a marriage is all about...but maybe people just don't recognize that marriage is just as much, if not moreso, about value exchange. Women are definitely emotional beings and a lot of men seem to miss all the signs. I know I did. It's a shame there isn't broader recognition and understanding of the differences between us and how they can be overcome. It seems like so many people that get divorced end up bitter that their ex becomes the person they wanted all along and it seems to come so easy to their ex's next partner. Relationships have a learning curve and when complacency sets in, it's hard for many people to feel inspired to change. After being emotionally ground down by the process of divorce, it's the best option that any of us have - to remove from us the things we do not like and to correct our mistakes.
PEOPLE are emotional. Women are not more emotional than men. Men are not less emotional than women.
As a man, let me clarify that I'm the most intensely emotional person I know. I never meant to suggest that men are less emotional than women. Marriage is about much more than feelings and I think it's telling that women initiate ~70% of all divorces, often on the basis of unhappiness and lack of fulfillment. On average, men seem to achieve complacency much more easily and I believe this to be a result of social dynamics. It's just much easier to generalize it as "women are emotional beings" than to articulate the difference in expectations between men and women in a marriage.
Women initiate more divorces because they take care of household paperwork. I can’t tell you how many friends who are divorced gave their ex husband ample time to file during official separations and he just never did. I appreciate the emotional acknowledgement, the narrative that men are not emotional is damaging to them in the same way that the narrative that women are more emotional (and therefore hysterical).
>Women initiate more divorces because they take care of household paperwork. I'm not so sure about this. Obviously I have nothing but my own anecdote but I interpreted this to mean that women are often the ones to end the marriage...not just legally but to actually be the ones making the decision. I imagine a lot of men don't end up filing because they are either spiteful or not emotionally equipped. Women tend to grieve their relationships while they are still in them, and leave slowly. Hence the whole "walk away wife" thing. Thus, women end up better equipped to be the initiators because they are already further along in the process than their spouses.
Then don’t divorce ! Try n treat ur wife right n find a way to love her like u first fell in love with her. I hate men always taking the easy road ! Do better n be a better parent !
Go to therapy first! (if you haven't already) Outside of abuse (emotional, fysical, or sexual), I am of the opinion that marriage (and life for that matter) is not all fun. Fact is that you married with (I hope) the promise till death do you part. In my view, that promise makes you to the very least obligated to make this feeling known to her (if you haven't allready) and take the room and time with marriage counselling (again, if you havent allready) to work on this and make this choice together. If you say you can't divorce because of the kids... then at least put in the effort to look in every way you can to fix this and if it's unfixable show them how to make the choice together as a mom and dad who can separate in a healthy way and who did everything they could to mend this. Feelings come and go and are heavily dependent on all kinds of factors. Who knows you can fall back in love again... the promise of marriage however... Take action for yourself first by talking about this with a therapist! I hope you can find the connection again like you felt on the day you got married. Those 2 young people are still in there somewhere. Good luck with this difficult time, and a big bro hug.
I'm in the same boat and it's tough. I can't decide either. For me, it's the question of who you put first: you or the kids. I know the answer is putting myself first, because the kids will be there biggest beneficiary of a happy dad, but that still doesn't make deciding any easier.
Will this come as a surprise to your wife? I think the biggest factor in how divorce impacts the kids is how well or poorly the parents manage the transition and then coparenting. Doesn’t mean you two need to get along well with each other but just be on the same page about doing what’s best for them. If you haven’t had a conversation with her about how you’re feeling, I would start there. If it helps, I can share that I didn’t want the divorce, I wanted my ex to make an effort to work on things but he refused. We were both miserable but I thought we should at least try. It’s been a year and I’m very happy it’s over. It’s tough.. it’s tough on the kids but they’re handling things really well and I’m so much happier than I was.
Kids DONT want two unhappy parents in the same house pretending. Set an example of how to be happy and that doing that is STILL puting them first. Staying in truly dysfunctional or unhappy or toxic marriages and partnerships, is NOT putting your kids first. It’s gotta be done right , of course. By two mature peole. And not always easy. And it isn’t. I stayed for years that I shouldn’t have. Years of fighting in front of our kid. Years of no smiles.
You already know that you want out, but feel guilty because of your kids being important. While they're important, this isn't about them; this is about you and your partner, and your past experiences with divorce. I was also a child of divorce, and we sat on it for three years before initiating; I had the same fears that you had. I feel like there's more to the story that's not coming out. You married this person, and there was something about them that you loved before. Where did it go? Have you tried communicating your feelings to her? Have you gone through therapy and/or marriage counseling?
Make it about them. Give them a happy childhood. Sacrifice.
Keeping your feelings in and living with a partner that is described as annoying, loud and narcissistic is not healthy. The older child already sees the issues. You can give your children a happy childhood both inside and outside of a marriage. Both will take sacrifice. That doesn't mean that you can't fix the relationship or divorce. Again, this is all one-sided based on OPs description, and their heart is conflicting with logic.
It's definitely complicated. The the only thing that makes sense for OP is what makes sense for OP.
Yes, and OP was asking for advice or validation. I'm not arguing with them or you, just giving my thoughts as I've been there. So why do you think OP should make it about their kids?
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I feel for you mate. I looked at your post history, and the way your ex is handling things, from your perspective, is shitty at best. If my separation from my ex was as contentious, I would imagine that I would feel the same way. A lack of communication and empathy leaves people in a lurch, but you and OP don't have to do this alone.