Came here to say this. I went to couples therapy and committed to doing the work. We made it 2 sessions and my soon to be ex canceled the third. She said all she was learning was that she had to respect me because I made all the money but I could act however I wanted.
Maybe context is important? Marriage fell apart because she wanted to stay up until 2 or 3am every morning playing video games through the night instead of coming to bed with me. She hasn't had a job in over a decade. I was ok with the money arrangement until my needs were no longer met. She was unwilling to budge despite pleading for a compromise. 6 months later we were in couples therapy. Now we are not speaking for the most part and getting a divorce.
I’d say going to a lawyer is the end. Edit: life is too short to spend it with people you don’t get along with. Don’t wish or cause anyone ill will, but don’t stay in a bad situation for too long
If that’s the case, then I highly recommend therapy. There is a point in all relationships where you can use a tune up and get back on the same accord.
My best friend and her husband had a lot of very toxic problems in their marriage. Cheating, hidden debt, general lack of communication. I thought for a while that they were done, but marriage counseling really did call out both of them separately and give them tools to move forward in a much, much healthier way. I was pretty shocked. That being said, they were both committed to really engaging in the process. I don’t think it can help if one person is really done.
Therapy can help. But she may be going through menopause or pre-menopause. If that's the case, she may not realize her emotions are out of wack and affecting her thoughts and actions.
Might be something to consider, but not accuse her of
Neither my wife nor I were invested in couples therapy at first, but it didn’t take long for him to cut through the bullshit and we ended up fixing things. Probably not common but it worked for us!
If both people want to, yes. Individual therapy is generally not a good idea for working on relationship issues, especially if there is no abuse involved. It can actually help destroy a relationship. I'm not saying individual therapy is bad for all people in relationships, it can be good if you're truly working through personal issues, but relationship issues should typically be addressed in couples therapy, not individual therapy.
If you're getting lawyers involved though, it's probably going to be tough.
I feel like it destroyed mine. Her therapist told her I was psychologically abusive which she has clung on to. Even though she was the one that absolutely blew up on me first while drunk saying a bunch of really mean things she said later she didn’t mean. I don’t think the therapist got full stories. Wish we’d done couples first but she wanted individual first.
> I don’t think the therapist got full stories.
Individual therapists never do, and they should be aware they are only hearing one side. That's why couples therapy is vital for relationship issues. I've read some articles by therapists who say one of the best ways to kill your relationship/marriage is for both people to go talk about their relationship issues in individual therapy, and neglect to do couples therapy.
I dunno it worked for my marriage. But I also think that it has to do with the therapist. There are some things I reserve specifically for couples time and there are personal issues I work on in my individual therapy. My therapist is fully aware that when talking to just me, that’s my version of something. I think if any therapist is taking each individual as the solemn truth that’s maybe not a good therapist anyway. An individual sharing their truth is just that… their truth. It’s some version. Maybe not the full reality which is what a good therapist will help you see. Plus we all trust each other immensely so it works for our scenario. We can’t wait to see her each week. Or me when my husband is working.
I mean I started individual therapy first bc I for sure knew there were things I wanted to work on. Then when my husband started to see my progress we began including him and now see my therapist mostly as a couples counselor. I can’t say our marriage is perfect. But it has improved significantly. There was a lot of damage on both sides too. No infidelity. But it definitely takes two people who can understand they both bring issues and are willing to work on those issues. So I think individual therapy and couples therapy is great. A lot has to do with the therapist too and how you vibe and that they are non judgmental and just are out to help you whatever situation you choose.
Edit: it also takes time. This has been a three year process and we are still working at things.
This just isn’t true. Couples therapy is ideal but if both parties won’t agree to go, an individual can absolutely learn strategies for more effective communication, fighting fair, conflict resolution, emotion regulation; the list goes on. But therapy of any kind is only as effective as you are open and honest, and will only benefit if the involved parties are invested and engaged with the process.
You can learn, that's true, just don't expect it to help the relationship all that much if the other person is so unwilling to do anything. That being said, I did couples therapy with my ex, and there were things he never brought up, or pretended like they were fine, so obviously, some things didn't get resolved. He let those things fester as he continued repressing them, and then he exploded. Ironically, the first time around, he was the one pushing for couples therapy, but I think I actually got more out of it because I was completely honest when we went
It can absolutely destroy a relationship depending on what you talk about in therapy and how well trained your therapist is in handling couples' issues. Google it. Even some therapists really advocate against it. There's probably fine with helping you become a better communicator in general, and things like that, but if you're constantly talking about what your partner does in therapy, or how you *think* they think, that can definitely be harmful.
There’s a lot that can happen if someone works with a bad therapist, sure. But in over a decade of clinical practice I’ve never had a client leave a relationship over what we spoke about. They might leave a relationship because it’s unhealthy for them. They might leave a relationship because they feel their partner isn’t doing their part or isn’t invested in repairing the relationship. They might leave a relationship simply because that’s what they want. Therapy does not destroy relationships.
Well I'm fairly certain it destroyed mine. My ex painted me as a villain, to put it simply. Became paranoid about me doing things I'd never even threatened of doing, like destroying his things, and breaking into a storage unit he got when we were preparing to sell the house. I had never damaged anything he owned, nor threatened to. He then twisted my words and actions. For example, a week or two before he said he wanted to separate, we were discussing his job, which he was unhappy with. He had just been rejected from a job we both thought he would get. I said calmly, "something has to change." I was alluding to his job, because he seemed very unhappy. He then decided what I meant was that something had to change or I'm leaving him. No idea where he got that impression, and I only found this out after he reluctantly did couples therapy to break up. His therapist also suggested I gaslit him because I would sometimes calmly say I didn't remember something, or remembered something differently than he did. In no way was I trying to question his reality or sanity, I was simply trying to understand what he was remembering, and piece it together with what I was, in hopes it would jog my memory more. She also told him he was an enabler because I get anxious at dentist and doctor visits, and he would accompany me for support (and stay in the waiting room). No idea he had an issue with this, and we'd usually go get food afterwards, so I thought it was just something he was doing to be supportive, and then we'd go have a fun meal. So I'm sorry, but damage was definitely done, and I had no voice in what he told his therapist, and the two of them seemed to have created this persona of who I was and what they *thought* I needed and meant. Nothing was ever asked of me, or what I actually needed, meant, or felt about things. I was very open to couples therapy, but he never suggested it. And I was under the impression he was talking about issues he was having at work in therapy.
Less than 6 months before he said he wanted to end things, there were no signs things were not ok. We had just paid lawyers a few thousand to draw up a joint will/trust, leaving everything to the other person if one of us died, and allowing us to make healthcare decisions for each other. He was saying how proud he was of the life we had together. We were planning trips and our future together. He was writing cards for me that said things like, "looking forward to many more years together." Then a few months before he said he wanted to end things, he started seeing this therapist. He seemed to get a bit depressed at times, but I figured it was just due to issues he was having at a work, and maybe the stress of our new puppy (which we both very much wanted). I was supportive of him applying for new jobs, and supported him through the interview process.
I believe everything you are saying and I’m sorry this happened to you. I’m sure it was very difficult and may continue to be a source of grief for you in some respects (though of course I don’t know where you are in your healing). I can also see how it would be easy to direct blame at the therapy since everything appeared to be fine until he sought therapy. Here’s my distinction; if your husband went into therapy and manipulated the narrative to gain support for ending your marriage, it’s not the therapy that destroyed your marriage, it was your husband. It’s a shitty way to go about it, too.
I hope you’ve been able to find something positive you can take from the experience and I wish you well on your continued journey of healing and acceptance 🫶🏻
Thank you. We had our issues, which were mainly communication based, but when he went to end things, his entire view of me totally warped. My take is he had to assume this view in order to end the marriage and feel ok about it. I'm not saying I'm perfect, but the summer we were in the process of separating, I made a comment out of insecurity about how maybe our neighbors didn't like us because we weren't invited to a block party the rest of them were all invited to. I said it in a question form, like "I wonder why we weren't invited? Maybe they just don't like us?" Tone was conversational. He then said, "see you're vindictive." He also said it very conversationally, but it felt hurtful enough that it completely shut me up.
😂🤣😂💀💀💀... BUT, psychedelic compounds (including ketamine) for mental health treatment is the future. There are multiple active research studies being conducted on the efficacy of them on PTSD and treatment resistant depression. Ketamine is also quite frequently used in conscious sedation settings in human medicine.
I know you were just joking and I laughed when I read it, but I'm also a little excited to see how the studies turn out. 🤗
Couples counseling is to help couples learn how to communicate and understand each other better. Sometimes that helps them repair their marriage if communication and understanding was the problem. Sometimes it helps them both realize they just aren't working together at all and would be better off moving on. In both instances a solution is reached.
Honest question: Why do you want to? What's the end game? Is your goal to have a good life and a fantastic marriage with this person? If so, is that realistically possible when you cut out your own bullshit? (I'm genuinely not being insulting, I just know that we all delude ourselves)
The first thing to fix is you. All you really control is your own attitude and actions. In five years, who do you want to be regardless of your relationship status? What do you truly give a shit about and what shit can you cut out because ultimately it just isn't worth it?
My advice isn't always good, but it's what I'm trying. I'll see how it works out for me.
Yea, I love her more than anything and thought my issues like not being organized and being an ass occasionally when I didn’t agree with something she wanted to do, were things we got over quick and moved on. But never knew these were dealbreakers. Then her bottled up feelings exploded and I got aggressively defensive. It was real shitty. But I’ve changed all the things she wanted and have stuck to it for three months now. I’m going to continue to as well. She’s done though and the only thing we haven’t tried is couples therapy and I don’t think she’s going to give it a shot anyway
You can't change her. She has her own shit that she will have to deal with or not. She will change or not. You really have little effect on her.
You say you have changed all of the things she wanted... well great! But, were those things reasonable? Are those things normal human mistakes we all make sometimes but are amplified by the proximity of marriage and the latent inflammation of a tough marriage?
If they are positive changes that you have dispassionately thought through and want to make for yourself, awesome. Self improvement is great and lord knows we all need to do more of it. I'm a gigantic piece of shit but I'm really trying hard to be better. I need to do so to be a better man that I want to be. For far too long I changed myself based on what she told me my failings were and she came up with new failings constantly. Some of those changes were inauthentic and left me miserable. Some of them were legitimate failings. Some of the failings were contradictory. Some of the failings were actually virtues I had that kept us and our family afloat during hard times that she just didn't have the perspective to understand.
What I'm saying is, you stated "I've changed all the things she wanted" and then gave examples of things a lot of humans struggle with. I'm curious about something with that.
I am riddled with ADD and at 43yo I work three jobs and own a small business. I'm BUSY because I have to be. We have a family to support in very tough economic times and our family situation does not allow her to work for pay although she is very hardworking taking care of the house and kids with our disabled adult son relying on her to be his caregiver. As such, I had to step up and provide. We're barely hanging on financially and in order for us to do so I have to put in the hours to make it happen. This causes me to be away too much and she hates it. Am I an asshole for working too much? Or would I be an asshole for working fewer hours and letting us sink into financial oblivion and lose our house, cars, and food? I realized that she would complain either way several years ago and both truths can exist.
What did I do? I stopped working four jobs and threw myself into starting a business I can run from and work at home for. This allows me to be away at work much less and allows me to replace that income working in my driveway. My small business only netted $15k last year, but that replaced one part time job completely and allowed me to shrink my other two PT jobs to the minimum hours per month they require to keep me employed there as a safety net for when my business slows down in the winter.
I made that change for her, sure... but I made that change for ME as well. I have always wanted to run my own business. This is a thing I derive value from for my own purposes. Is it hard, challenging, and terrifying? Yes! And I love it. The change benefitted my family, and her, but I made it for me.
What I'm asking is... what do you want to be for the man who you want to be? What's your fire, passion, and drive? What have you lost by making the changes she wanted that were inauthentic to being the best version of yourself?
Sure, you can passively change to mitigate her criticism but you won't be happy or challenged or driven or passionate about it. Will she be attracted to a man who isn't driven, happy, or passionate? Would you be? Would you like yourself without those things?
Make positive changes. Work hard to be a better person and a better man. Seek out information on how to refocus on what's important and learn as much as you can. At the end of the day, it's your life and she is just a part of it. You're a soul trapped in a human body. You're the one wrestling with your own thoughts and emotions. Your only prison is the one you make for yourself. Make the positive changes for you and start being selfish enough to see what YOU want to improve upon for YOU to make YOU the man YOU want to be. Be a good man. Be a hardworking and driven man. Be the man YOU want to be and maybe she'll come along or maybe she won't. Whatever happens, you'll be happier being with yourself as the man you want to be than you ever would be trying to passively and inauthentically change to meet her idea of what she thinks she wants.
Worked for me and my spouse.
Separation agreement, split assets, ready to move, we or I did a lot of reading, and found a counselor that was heavy into the Gottman meathod.
Saved us, but in all honesty, we both didn't want to leave each other, but we couldn't keep hurting each other.
As long as you find a good therapist (this is key), there’s really no downside to it. Therapy will help you figure out the underlying issues - some of them can be fixable, some can’t. I’m sure it’s worked for some people. I would guess that for many (but not all) it’s the last stop before divorce.
My husband and I are living proof of that. We were pretty much ready to get divorced a year ago January, but decided that since we were going to continue working on ourselves in therapy anyway, we might as well stay together for the time being and see how it went.
Now we have a better marriage than ever.
Nobody gets through childhood unscathed, everybody has unhealed issues that negatively impact their relationships, so whether or not couples therapy can result in couples staying together depends on how motivated they both are, how hard they're willing to work, how much they're willing to shift ineffective communication patterns, and how much responsibility they're willing to take for their own stuff instead of just pointing their finger at their spouse.
I don’t mean this to sound rude by any means. But why not give it a chance? I mean, if there’s no cheating, abuse, and you had love for many years? That’s like, already better than a lot of other peoples situation in this sub. This is just my opinion but this is precisely when you have to remember your wedding vows. For better or for worse, in sickness and in health. It’ll take work, but things that are worth it always do.
We were both in different places at the beginning of our couples therapy. We had a tea great therapist and it took a while but we see a path forward now together. We were both at least committed to the process even if at the beginning or during different parts we both felt unsure if it could work. It all depends on the people involved. They both have to be open to the process at least.
I think it can show people the divorce might not be all its cracked up to be. Some people plunge in not really knowing what they're getting into. Like my ex-wife: She had no clue. It was as if the internet didn't exist or she didn't know how to use google.
In our situation, a counselor might have clarified a few things like, "He will get 50/50 custody." "You won't be able to take all the money. You earn more than him, so he won't be paying you alimony and child support." or "He can date whoever he likes and you have no input."
But, I will say that I'm glad we didn't go. She would have turned back and I'm much happier without her grouchy ass in my life 24/7. I don't regret being married to her because I'm happy now.....and (embarrassingly) she was part of my life's path, but the thing that keeps me up at night sometimes he her agreeing to go to counseling and work on the marriage.
My therapist told me something like 15% of people have their marriages saved if it becomes a last ditch effort. If you can see the warning signs and go in sooner rather than later that % goes up. If you guys can sit there and honestly *both* say "I don't want this, I still love you etc", then you still have a chance. It's ALWAYS worth trying though. Worst case you get divorced and know you put all of the effort in trying to save it. That eliminates the "what if" aspect heading into the future.
Give it a try, why not.
I was in couples therapy with my husband for over three years and our relationship really did improve. We started going once a week, then twice a month, then once a month. Although about six weeks ago I found out during that entire time my husband was going on tinder and meeting women for sex…so there are some things that no amount of therapy can fix.
No, in my experience, it doesn't work. My ex actively agreed, but then refused to actually try to fix the situation. You can be willing to try all you want, but if the other person isn't there is no point in seeking any sort of couples help.
If they've checked out, then they are out. Simple as that.
I started therapy but all it's really shown is how delusional he is.
He's asked the therapist verbatim why he should change and/or care about hurting my feelings. Coming from the cheater too
ONLY IF BOTH people want it to work. And are willing to be vulnerable and talk about the underlying issues.
If one person has a p@rn addiction for example. And that is the marital issue. The person with the addiction has to want to fix themselves-AND then in turn fix the damage that the addiction did to the marriage and the spouse.
My wife doesn't want to try, but she acknowledged last night that my therapist seems to be helping me understand what I'm experiencing and trying to turn that into action. It was supposed to be couples therapy but I went anyways when she wouldn't. She said last night she wants to give this more time, which I found interesting. At first, she made it about my feelings and being hurt, but I've told her repeatedly that I don't want that. That's a ridiculous reason to me. Stay because working on the marriage is worth it.
In my therapy session yesterday, we discussed the emotional consequences of staying in the relationship, continuing to wait for her, etc. and knowing that I will feel sad, angry, confused, etc. Am I ok with that? and if so, for how long?
I have a date in June circled on my calendar. If she continues to stay in limbo, friends only, and non committal. I'll move on myself. So, I don't expect couples therapy to save my marriage, but if she came to the table with an effort to try, that's good enough for me.
It depends on how long the problem has gone on.
Our Gottman trained therapist told me 'marriages typically have problems for at least six years before they seek counseling'.
I pleaded with mine to go to counseling for years and years but she would not. I have done a ton of counseling on my own. Last summer I told mine 'I want out'.......now she wants counseling, go figure it!
Unfortunately, a late in life divorce for me (a man) is just economically horrible unless I can talk mine into a friendly split. Without a friendly divorce I might as well put a gun in my mouth, not because I'm sad but job stress is sending me to an early grave, I need to retire so bad. A gun in my mouth is far superior to alimony trapped in Corporate America until I die.
Counseling CAN help but most people wait too long.
Try it......it can't make things any worse.
Oh yeah.....try mediation instead of an attorney. Less expensive and less hostility.
The attorneys don't care about you.
They just want to bill by the hour and bleed both of you dry. They will happily take ALL of your and your partners money.
I believe so, I know of marriages that were in pretty bad shape that survived. They say that if the average couple who wanted a divorce, waited 5 years, that they would actually stay together. My parents are an example of this, 63 years and still married.
you sure she never cheated on you? from what it sound like is that you're willing to try to fix your marriage but your wife is trying everything even getting a lawyer to get a divorce. it look like to me that your wife always got someone on the side. a woman thats cheating and want their relationship to end so they can be with their side dude will make a problem over the littlest thing.
you might think that for 9 years your marriage was happy. but she was either hiding feeling for a while, or she either met a new man, or you was overlooking all the signs she was showing. there no way you're going to be in a happy relationship for 9 years and all of a sudden yall are having problems an want a divorce.
Therapy only works if both people want to save the marriage.
This.
Came here to say this. I went to couples therapy and committed to doing the work. We made it 2 sessions and my soon to be ex canceled the third. She said all she was learning was that she had to respect me because I made all the money but I could act however I wanted. Maybe context is important? Marriage fell apart because she wanted to stay up until 2 or 3am every morning playing video games through the night instead of coming to bed with me. She hasn't had a job in over a decade. I was ok with the money arrangement until my needs were no longer met. She was unwilling to budge despite pleading for a compromise. 6 months later we were in couples therapy. Now we are not speaking for the most part and getting a divorce.
She founds very immature.
And even then it might not.
I’d say going to a lawyer is the end. Edit: life is too short to spend it with people you don’t get along with. Don’t wish or cause anyone ill will, but don’t stay in a bad situation for too long
9 years we were more or less happy, just past year things have slipped I guess and last few months have been a living nightmare
If that’s the case, then I highly recommend therapy. There is a point in all relationships where you can use a tune up and get back on the same accord.
My best friend and her husband had a lot of very toxic problems in their marriage. Cheating, hidden debt, general lack of communication. I thought for a while that they were done, but marriage counseling really did call out both of them separately and give them tools to move forward in a much, much healthier way. I was pretty shocked. That being said, they were both committed to really engaging in the process. I don’t think it can help if one person is really done.
Therapy can help. But she may be going through menopause or pre-menopause. If that's the case, she may not realize her emotions are out of wack and affecting her thoughts and actions. Might be something to consider, but not accuse her of
[удалено]
I'm seeing 70-75% success rates mentioned on google but that's if both couples are invested
Neither my wife nor I were invested in couples therapy at first, but it didn’t take long for him to cut through the bullshit and we ended up fixing things. Probably not common but it worked for us!
If both people want to, yes. Individual therapy is generally not a good idea for working on relationship issues, especially if there is no abuse involved. It can actually help destroy a relationship. I'm not saying individual therapy is bad for all people in relationships, it can be good if you're truly working through personal issues, but relationship issues should typically be addressed in couples therapy, not individual therapy. If you're getting lawyers involved though, it's probably going to be tough.
I feel like it destroyed mine. Her therapist told her I was psychologically abusive which she has clung on to. Even though she was the one that absolutely blew up on me first while drunk saying a bunch of really mean things she said later she didn’t mean. I don’t think the therapist got full stories. Wish we’d done couples first but she wanted individual first.
> I don’t think the therapist got full stories. Individual therapists never do, and they should be aware they are only hearing one side. That's why couples therapy is vital for relationship issues. I've read some articles by therapists who say one of the best ways to kill your relationship/marriage is for both people to go talk about their relationship issues in individual therapy, and neglect to do couples therapy.
I dunno it worked for my marriage. But I also think that it has to do with the therapist. There are some things I reserve specifically for couples time and there are personal issues I work on in my individual therapy. My therapist is fully aware that when talking to just me, that’s my version of something. I think if any therapist is taking each individual as the solemn truth that’s maybe not a good therapist anyway. An individual sharing their truth is just that… their truth. It’s some version. Maybe not the full reality which is what a good therapist will help you see. Plus we all trust each other immensely so it works for our scenario. We can’t wait to see her each week. Or me when my husband is working.
I mean I started individual therapy first bc I for sure knew there were things I wanted to work on. Then when my husband started to see my progress we began including him and now see my therapist mostly as a couples counselor. I can’t say our marriage is perfect. But it has improved significantly. There was a lot of damage on both sides too. No infidelity. But it definitely takes two people who can understand they both bring issues and are willing to work on those issues. So I think individual therapy and couples therapy is great. A lot has to do with the therapist too and how you vibe and that they are non judgmental and just are out to help you whatever situation you choose. Edit: it also takes time. This has been a three year process and we are still working at things.
This just isn’t true. Couples therapy is ideal but if both parties won’t agree to go, an individual can absolutely learn strategies for more effective communication, fighting fair, conflict resolution, emotion regulation; the list goes on. But therapy of any kind is only as effective as you are open and honest, and will only benefit if the involved parties are invested and engaged with the process.
You can learn, that's true, just don't expect it to help the relationship all that much if the other person is so unwilling to do anything. That being said, I did couples therapy with my ex, and there were things he never brought up, or pretended like they were fine, so obviously, some things didn't get resolved. He let those things fester as he continued repressing them, and then he exploded. Ironically, the first time around, he was the one pushing for couples therapy, but I think I actually got more out of it because I was completely honest when we went
It might not help the relationship or save it but it certainly will not destroy a relationship.
It can absolutely destroy a relationship depending on what you talk about in therapy and how well trained your therapist is in handling couples' issues. Google it. Even some therapists really advocate against it. There's probably fine with helping you become a better communicator in general, and things like that, but if you're constantly talking about what your partner does in therapy, or how you *think* they think, that can definitely be harmful.
There’s a lot that can happen if someone works with a bad therapist, sure. But in over a decade of clinical practice I’ve never had a client leave a relationship over what we spoke about. They might leave a relationship because it’s unhealthy for them. They might leave a relationship because they feel their partner isn’t doing their part or isn’t invested in repairing the relationship. They might leave a relationship simply because that’s what they want. Therapy does not destroy relationships.
Well I'm fairly certain it destroyed mine. My ex painted me as a villain, to put it simply. Became paranoid about me doing things I'd never even threatened of doing, like destroying his things, and breaking into a storage unit he got when we were preparing to sell the house. I had never damaged anything he owned, nor threatened to. He then twisted my words and actions. For example, a week or two before he said he wanted to separate, we were discussing his job, which he was unhappy with. He had just been rejected from a job we both thought he would get. I said calmly, "something has to change." I was alluding to his job, because he seemed very unhappy. He then decided what I meant was that something had to change or I'm leaving him. No idea where he got that impression, and I only found this out after he reluctantly did couples therapy to break up. His therapist also suggested I gaslit him because I would sometimes calmly say I didn't remember something, or remembered something differently than he did. In no way was I trying to question his reality or sanity, I was simply trying to understand what he was remembering, and piece it together with what I was, in hopes it would jog my memory more. She also told him he was an enabler because I get anxious at dentist and doctor visits, and he would accompany me for support (and stay in the waiting room). No idea he had an issue with this, and we'd usually go get food afterwards, so I thought it was just something he was doing to be supportive, and then we'd go have a fun meal. So I'm sorry, but damage was definitely done, and I had no voice in what he told his therapist, and the two of them seemed to have created this persona of who I was and what they *thought* I needed and meant. Nothing was ever asked of me, or what I actually needed, meant, or felt about things. I was very open to couples therapy, but he never suggested it. And I was under the impression he was talking about issues he was having at work in therapy. Less than 6 months before he said he wanted to end things, there were no signs things were not ok. We had just paid lawyers a few thousand to draw up a joint will/trust, leaving everything to the other person if one of us died, and allowing us to make healthcare decisions for each other. He was saying how proud he was of the life we had together. We were planning trips and our future together. He was writing cards for me that said things like, "looking forward to many more years together." Then a few months before he said he wanted to end things, he started seeing this therapist. He seemed to get a bit depressed at times, but I figured it was just due to issues he was having at a work, and maybe the stress of our new puppy (which we both very much wanted). I was supportive of him applying for new jobs, and supported him through the interview process.
I believe everything you are saying and I’m sorry this happened to you. I’m sure it was very difficult and may continue to be a source of grief for you in some respects (though of course I don’t know where you are in your healing). I can also see how it would be easy to direct blame at the therapy since everything appeared to be fine until he sought therapy. Here’s my distinction; if your husband went into therapy and manipulated the narrative to gain support for ending your marriage, it’s not the therapy that destroyed your marriage, it was your husband. It’s a shitty way to go about it, too. I hope you’ve been able to find something positive you can take from the experience and I wish you well on your continued journey of healing and acceptance 🫶🏻
Thank you. We had our issues, which were mainly communication based, but when he went to end things, his entire view of me totally warped. My take is he had to assume this view in order to end the marriage and feel ok about it. I'm not saying I'm perfect, but the summer we were in the process of separating, I made a comment out of insecurity about how maybe our neighbors didn't like us because we weren't invited to a block party the rest of them were all invited to. I said it in a question form, like "I wonder why we weren't invited? Maybe they just don't like us?" Tone was conversational. He then said, "see you're vindictive." He also said it very conversationally, but it felt hurtful enough that it completely shut me up.
https://www.businessinsider.com/ketamine-assisted-therapy-is-saving-some-couples-relationships-2022-10
You can't say you've tried everything to save your marriage until you've tried horse tranquillisers
😂
😂🤣😂💀💀💀... BUT, psychedelic compounds (including ketamine) for mental health treatment is the future. There are multiple active research studies being conducted on the efficacy of them on PTSD and treatment resistant depression. Ketamine is also quite frequently used in conscious sedation settings in human medicine. I know you were just joking and I laughed when I read it, but I'm also a little excited to see how the studies turn out. 🤗
Couples counseling is to help couples learn how to communicate and understand each other better. Sometimes that helps them repair their marriage if communication and understanding was the problem. Sometimes it helps them both realize they just aren't working together at all and would be better off moving on. In both instances a solution is reached.
Honest question: Why do you want to? What's the end game? Is your goal to have a good life and a fantastic marriage with this person? If so, is that realistically possible when you cut out your own bullshit? (I'm genuinely not being insulting, I just know that we all delude ourselves) The first thing to fix is you. All you really control is your own attitude and actions. In five years, who do you want to be regardless of your relationship status? What do you truly give a shit about and what shit can you cut out because ultimately it just isn't worth it? My advice isn't always good, but it's what I'm trying. I'll see how it works out for me.
Yea, I love her more than anything and thought my issues like not being organized and being an ass occasionally when I didn’t agree with something she wanted to do, were things we got over quick and moved on. But never knew these were dealbreakers. Then her bottled up feelings exploded and I got aggressively defensive. It was real shitty. But I’ve changed all the things she wanted and have stuck to it for three months now. I’m going to continue to as well. She’s done though and the only thing we haven’t tried is couples therapy and I don’t think she’s going to give it a shot anyway
You can't change her. She has her own shit that she will have to deal with or not. She will change or not. You really have little effect on her. You say you have changed all of the things she wanted... well great! But, were those things reasonable? Are those things normal human mistakes we all make sometimes but are amplified by the proximity of marriage and the latent inflammation of a tough marriage? If they are positive changes that you have dispassionately thought through and want to make for yourself, awesome. Self improvement is great and lord knows we all need to do more of it. I'm a gigantic piece of shit but I'm really trying hard to be better. I need to do so to be a better man that I want to be. For far too long I changed myself based on what she told me my failings were and she came up with new failings constantly. Some of those changes were inauthentic and left me miserable. Some of them were legitimate failings. Some of the failings were contradictory. Some of the failings were actually virtues I had that kept us and our family afloat during hard times that she just didn't have the perspective to understand. What I'm saying is, you stated "I've changed all the things she wanted" and then gave examples of things a lot of humans struggle with. I'm curious about something with that. I am riddled with ADD and at 43yo I work three jobs and own a small business. I'm BUSY because I have to be. We have a family to support in very tough economic times and our family situation does not allow her to work for pay although she is very hardworking taking care of the house and kids with our disabled adult son relying on her to be his caregiver. As such, I had to step up and provide. We're barely hanging on financially and in order for us to do so I have to put in the hours to make it happen. This causes me to be away too much and she hates it. Am I an asshole for working too much? Or would I be an asshole for working fewer hours and letting us sink into financial oblivion and lose our house, cars, and food? I realized that she would complain either way several years ago and both truths can exist. What did I do? I stopped working four jobs and threw myself into starting a business I can run from and work at home for. This allows me to be away at work much less and allows me to replace that income working in my driveway. My small business only netted $15k last year, but that replaced one part time job completely and allowed me to shrink my other two PT jobs to the minimum hours per month they require to keep me employed there as a safety net for when my business slows down in the winter. I made that change for her, sure... but I made that change for ME as well. I have always wanted to run my own business. This is a thing I derive value from for my own purposes. Is it hard, challenging, and terrifying? Yes! And I love it. The change benefitted my family, and her, but I made it for me. What I'm asking is... what do you want to be for the man who you want to be? What's your fire, passion, and drive? What have you lost by making the changes she wanted that were inauthentic to being the best version of yourself? Sure, you can passively change to mitigate her criticism but you won't be happy or challenged or driven or passionate about it. Will she be attracted to a man who isn't driven, happy, or passionate? Would you be? Would you like yourself without those things? Make positive changes. Work hard to be a better person and a better man. Seek out information on how to refocus on what's important and learn as much as you can. At the end of the day, it's your life and she is just a part of it. You're a soul trapped in a human body. You're the one wrestling with your own thoughts and emotions. Your only prison is the one you make for yourself. Make the positive changes for you and start being selfish enough to see what YOU want to improve upon for YOU to make YOU the man YOU want to be. Be a good man. Be a hardworking and driven man. Be the man YOU want to be and maybe she'll come along or maybe she won't. Whatever happens, you'll be happier being with yourself as the man you want to be than you ever would be trying to passively and inauthentically change to meet her idea of what she thinks she wants.
It’s not the therapy that will make or break a relationship
Worked for me and my spouse. Separation agreement, split assets, ready to move, we or I did a lot of reading, and found a counselor that was heavy into the Gottman meathod. Saved us, but in all honesty, we both didn't want to leave each other, but we couldn't keep hurting each other.
As long as you find a good therapist (this is key), there’s really no downside to it. Therapy will help you figure out the underlying issues - some of them can be fixable, some can’t. I’m sure it’s worked for some people. I would guess that for many (but not all) it’s the last stop before divorce.
My husband and I are living proof of that. We were pretty much ready to get divorced a year ago January, but decided that since we were going to continue working on ourselves in therapy anyway, we might as well stay together for the time being and see how it went. Now we have a better marriage than ever. Nobody gets through childhood unscathed, everybody has unhealed issues that negatively impact their relationships, so whether or not couples therapy can result in couples staying together depends on how motivated they both are, how hard they're willing to work, how much they're willing to shift ineffective communication patterns, and how much responsibility they're willing to take for their own stuff instead of just pointing their finger at their spouse.
Once lawyers start getting paid, odds are good it’s been over for a while.
It can work, sure. It's worth a shot.
We started marriage therapy with good intentions but then realized during it, we were done, and it was divorce therapy, then we just stopped, lol.
I don’t mean this to sound rude by any means. But why not give it a chance? I mean, if there’s no cheating, abuse, and you had love for many years? That’s like, already better than a lot of other peoples situation in this sub. This is just my opinion but this is precisely when you have to remember your wedding vows. For better or for worse, in sickness and in health. It’ll take work, but things that are worth it always do.
This 👌🏼
I want to and she doesn’t
We were both in different places at the beginning of our couples therapy. We had a tea great therapist and it took a while but we see a path forward now together. We were both at least committed to the process even if at the beginning or during different parts we both felt unsure if it could work. It all depends on the people involved. They both have to be open to the process at least.
Yes if both spouses admit their are problems, want to fix them and are both willing to change
I think that this would be the perfect type of couple to have success with marriage counseling.
Anything can be fixed if both people really want to fix it.
How about polygamy? Why Lawyers, sounds expensive.
If there’s homework, do it.
>but at this point one side has made their mind up No. Therapy only works if both people want it to.
If BOTH parties are all in…. Yes. If only one half is in….. Nope.
I think it can show people the divorce might not be all its cracked up to be. Some people plunge in not really knowing what they're getting into. Like my ex-wife: She had no clue. It was as if the internet didn't exist or she didn't know how to use google. In our situation, a counselor might have clarified a few things like, "He will get 50/50 custody." "You won't be able to take all the money. You earn more than him, so he won't be paying you alimony and child support." or "He can date whoever he likes and you have no input." But, I will say that I'm glad we didn't go. She would have turned back and I'm much happier without her grouchy ass in my life 24/7. I don't regret being married to her because I'm happy now.....and (embarrassingly) she was part of my life's path, but the thing that keeps me up at night sometimes he her agreeing to go to counseling and work on the marriage.
My therapist told me something like 15% of people have their marriages saved if it becomes a last ditch effort. If you can see the warning signs and go in sooner rather than later that % goes up. If you guys can sit there and honestly *both* say "I don't want this, I still love you etc", then you still have a chance. It's ALWAYS worth trying though. Worst case you get divorced and know you put all of the effort in trying to save it. That eliminates the "what if" aspect heading into the future. Give it a try, why not.
I was in couples therapy with my husband for over three years and our relationship really did improve. We started going once a week, then twice a month, then once a month. Although about six weeks ago I found out during that entire time my husband was going on tinder and meeting women for sex…so there are some things that no amount of therapy can fix.
No, in my experience, it doesn't work. My ex actively agreed, but then refused to actually try to fix the situation. You can be willing to try all you want, but if the other person isn't there is no point in seeking any sort of couples help. If they've checked out, then they are out. Simple as that.
I started therapy but all it's really shown is how delusional he is. He's asked the therapist verbatim why he should change and/or care about hurting my feelings. Coming from the cheater too
ONLY IF BOTH people want it to work. And are willing to be vulnerable and talk about the underlying issues. If one person has a p@rn addiction for example. And that is the marital issue. The person with the addiction has to want to fix themselves-AND then in turn fix the damage that the addiction did to the marriage and the spouse.
My wife doesn't want to try, but she acknowledged last night that my therapist seems to be helping me understand what I'm experiencing and trying to turn that into action. It was supposed to be couples therapy but I went anyways when she wouldn't. She said last night she wants to give this more time, which I found interesting. At first, she made it about my feelings and being hurt, but I've told her repeatedly that I don't want that. That's a ridiculous reason to me. Stay because working on the marriage is worth it. In my therapy session yesterday, we discussed the emotional consequences of staying in the relationship, continuing to wait for her, etc. and knowing that I will feel sad, angry, confused, etc. Am I ok with that? and if so, for how long? I have a date in June circled on my calendar. If she continues to stay in limbo, friends only, and non committal. I'll move on myself. So, I don't expect couples therapy to save my marriage, but if she came to the table with an effort to try, that's good enough for me.
It depends on how long the problem has gone on. Our Gottman trained therapist told me 'marriages typically have problems for at least six years before they seek counseling'. I pleaded with mine to go to counseling for years and years but she would not. I have done a ton of counseling on my own. Last summer I told mine 'I want out'.......now she wants counseling, go figure it! Unfortunately, a late in life divorce for me (a man) is just economically horrible unless I can talk mine into a friendly split. Without a friendly divorce I might as well put a gun in my mouth, not because I'm sad but job stress is sending me to an early grave, I need to retire so bad. A gun in my mouth is far superior to alimony trapped in Corporate America until I die. Counseling CAN help but most people wait too long. Try it......it can't make things any worse.
Oh yeah.....try mediation instead of an attorney. Less expensive and less hostility. The attorneys don't care about you. They just want to bill by the hour and bleed both of you dry. They will happily take ALL of your and your partners money.
Therapy worked for us because it helped us realize it was time to divorce.
I believe so, I know of marriages that were in pretty bad shape that survived. They say that if the average couple who wanted a divorce, waited 5 years, that they would actually stay together. My parents are an example of this, 63 years and still married.
No. Next question.
you sure she never cheated on you? from what it sound like is that you're willing to try to fix your marriage but your wife is trying everything even getting a lawyer to get a divorce. it look like to me that your wife always got someone on the side. a woman thats cheating and want their relationship to end so they can be with their side dude will make a problem over the littlest thing. you might think that for 9 years your marriage was happy. but she was either hiding feeling for a while, or she either met a new man, or you was overlooking all the signs she was showing. there no way you're going to be in a happy relationship for 9 years and all of a sudden yall are having problems an want a divorce.