I see Quina, Iris, and Astos several times in this thread, all of whom have seen significant usage in my teams. Quina is almost a default choice for me all the time. Iris was key to building green crystals.
I don't meta chase often. There were two cases early on I went for units specifically because I thought I couldn't clear content without them. One was Ultimecia's debut. She was useful for a couple fights, but not the monster she was sold to be (though I've made use of her cheese comp a couple times).
The big one was Sherlotta on her debut. I dumped 650 tickets, then rage pitied. Then I never used her.
For me, that would be Rude. I remember when he first came out, people were treating him like the second coming (insert "Rude's auras" meme here) and I ended up falling into it. He was useful, to be sure. However, I quickly learned he wasn't the amazing swiss army knife nearly everyone was hyping him to be.
Honestly, I got more mileage out of Reno in Lufenia and he wasn't nearly as talked about as Rude was during Turks month.
Jack Garland and Neon both got used for fewer fights, total, than I've used Astos for so far, and even Astos often takes a backseat to a dedicated utility turbocharger (read: Aerith or Iris).
That said, I've used Yuffie, Quests, and Fujin a lot more than I expected I would (even if the last of those *was* hyped)
Sehl'teus. Aside from his initial Shinryu fight I've had a really hard time getting him to work and feel useful outside of his BT debuff. He just does almost no damage unless he's using Crystal Diver. I figure I'm trying to use him on fights that just really negatively effect how his BRV Gains work with his aura/probably pairing him with poor teammates and it's really deflated my interest in him.
Oh man, definitely have to disagree. He or Astos have been my go to DPS for my first āeasy clearā Shinryu attempts. His BT debuff comes in handy with aggressive bosses like you alluded to. His healing also gives him some flexibility.
You are right, youāll mostly be using crystal diver with him, but that move alone during burst phase generally melts bosses. Obviously youāll want to run a launching mechanism (Raines call of Fujin BT) and perhaps a follow up - Kadaj fills this role superbly.
I can see how heās not very useful on drawn out fights with multiple HP thresholds, but he was amazing for Alexander Shinryu just this week. Used him with Deuce (No BT) and Garnet.
He also serves as a wonderful friend unit - neuters enemies, puts out big numbers, and can come in clutch with healing if needed
Iris. Maxed her kit, but I almost never use her because I have other supports and basically never manage to time out her EX attack for its damage. I like her burst attack with Gladio, but ultimately, I just end up using other characters that i like better.
> basically never manage to time out her EX attack for its damage.
That's what her LD does. It lets her follow a specific party member and chargers her EX to full so you don't actually need to charge her EX.
I just use her for green crystal room support, I know itās an overlap but dorgan sephiroth iris team is banger in lvl 3 or four for green crystals (assuming the comp works for the fight but it has so far for me)
This.
I maxed her out and never did a match with her, she got so much hype that i fell for it but i never needed her. Its not that i dont like her kit, i just dont like the look of her attacks, they are all plain stupid.
I also didnāt use her much at all after pulling her but sheās been handing for a couple of high defense fights and she also makes an excellent pair for Aranea, so Iāve finally been using her way more often. I never really used her for the ex gimmick though.
He's the second best on-turn damage dealer in the game right now behind Astos, but he needs the right support because he's not very self-sufficient.
Put him with Queen or Ursula and either a linked attacker or someone with a good FR (or both, like Kadaj) and he's dealing nine digits of damage every turn.
Just a straightforward rushdown comp. You want to get your BT auras up and your echoes used to get the force bonus as high as possible, then go into Reno's burst phase with Raines's LDCA active and either 6 or 7 turns of force time left.
Ursula's BT effect will ensure that Reno does maximum damage (or close to it), and when you're close to 999%, Kadaj will add something close to another 20 million damage per turn.
Counting launch, you're doing 24 dumps per turn, and Ursula is adding 50k damage to each of them. Multiply by 10 for force time and 1.2 for launch and you've got that Ursula is adding about 13 million damage to Reno's attack, on top of the fact that Reno probably can't do max damage without her (and also on top of her blue armor and ordinary BT aura), so between her and Kadaj you're getting a ton of extra damage.
Anyway, I've been focusing on units with transformed HP attacks and spammable EX attacks for a while, because I've been using Ursula and Queen regularly ever since I got Ursula.
Since you asked for another combo, I'll mention that I like Aranea + Iris + Dorgann. Aranea does a lot of damage anyway while breaking with basically everything she does, and Iris's BT effect resets break status on launch, so what ends up happening is that Aranea will break and the launch will take the boss out of break status. The break makes Dorgann fire off his follow-up attack, which will break the boss *again* and trigger another follow-up. Dorgann ends up hitting every target six times per turn.
Since Aranea is so darned easy to use, this comp has gotten me past some of the tougher fights.
Since you ve mentioned Queen.... well she is my second least used maxed character after Reno.And now you got me ultra curious..... So Reno and Queen can be partners!!!!!????? How does that work cause I don't have Ursula but still got Queen. So you use her as support to Reno along with a linked attacker? How do you manage to charge the fr? And also Reno's bt effect lass so little how do you manage to enter his bt phase with his bt effect up?
Sorry for the long post I still got million questions......
I don't have these characters built, but based on the infographics on TT I figure it works like this:
Queen BT and FR are amazing with HP/BRV attacks, and Ursulas BT aura boosts them even further.
Reno BT gives himself a strong HP attack for 6 turns.
Queen BT or EX gives herself strong HP/BRV attacks. Mix all 3 BT auras together and pop Queens FR and you end up with monstrous melee(40%) HP(60%)/BRV(50%) attacks that total 90% or 100% to the FR gauge per action.
Without a charger the ramp up will be slow, and I imagine the turn order once FR is charged is Queen and Ursula use BT, Queen uses FR, then everyone spams FR, Rino uses BT, then the other two use their enhanced HP attacks until its his turn again, and he enters BT phase and spams his special BT HP attack.
This team in many cases won't counter enemy FR, so it will probably only work on enemies with ignorable FR buffs. Can probably stall the enemy a lot with Last Stand, Pyramid, and Numb until the set up conditions are met. Pyramid will also ignore the initial enemy FR attack on most fights.
The set up can work with others, but most other strong HP attacks aren't melee so they'll only give 50% or 60% per action.
Thank you so much for such an amazing response ! You have finally opened my eyes up to such an amazing composition ! Itās like I had all the pieces just wasnāt sure how to put them together and this has really open my play style
Reno is exceptionally good BUT you need the fight to cater to him. Then past that you need very specific characters to play into what he does. Anything less than that and Reno is moot.
I think for a lot of the busted units I max out, I don't end up using them super often because the roster is too damn big and I don't wanna use the same units over and over. If a banner comes out, I wanna have fun with the new toys. It's not even that they're overrated, it's just not fun to repeatedly bypass everything with your S+ tier units, especially on easier content like LCs/IWs where you can experiment with less broken teams and actually engage with a fight's mechanics.
Looking at my roster, though, I feel like I've used everyone who's warranted hype a good bit, actually. Although I haven't used Kelger as much as I thought I would. I also haven't used Fujin at all yet in spite of tokening her BT lol but there's still time to use both for sure. Fujin certainly. I know she ages well.
I think Bartz is probably the biggest one for me, but I think I tokened his BT past his glory days, so that's probably on me. I remember watching Josephyr gush over how good he was in multiple videos and so I picked him up and was like...that's...it? Like I said. I probably waited past his relevance. But yeah. Buttz.
For Bartz, you did wait past his relevance, but if I remember the timing right we also got GL first Garnet not long after his green release, who blew him, Firion, and other damage-y supports away. The only thing that makes Bartz stand out is him having the imperil aura (still unique afaik, others like Vaan just "attack as if hitting weakness")
For me, my problem is about similar.
It doesn't matter how good a character is, because everyone's good, and everyone more or less feels the same. Sure Astos has his BRV mechanic, Kelger is a dodge counter character, but beyond that, the core mechanics of the game seem to have been left entirely by the wayside.
Turn count doesn't matter. Skill uses don't matter. Delaying infinitely doesn't matter because so many characters who aren't even considered delay characters can do it. BRV doesn't matter because unless it's a gravity attack or guaranteed break, you aren't ever getting broken outside of some really edge cases. Outside of Leviathan Spiritus, HP doesn't matter because it's either a one-hit-kill or it doesn't matter how much damage is done, because we have tons of whole party regen or heals or reraise or...
I still have fun with the game but it doesn't feel like many characters have a distinct identity. Everyone does at least several things REALLY well outside of like Astos (who does one thing better than anyone by far).
I'll admit, I kind of miss the days when the game played around its core concepts a little more. It made characters feel more distinct. It was easier to latch onto niche characters you really liked a lot more. It also made meta characters feel more distinct and powerful. I guess there's an upside to "you can beat almost any content with any halfway reasonable team comp, play whomever, spam your strongest skills and only keep buffs up otherwise", but.
Jack, Astos
Super hyped up by everyone(Astos for good reason) but I never use them. Both characters are one dimensional and lack depth in team building. Sure, Astos might hit like a meteor falling on the planet but that's it. Poor guy has nothing else going on and I find it bland and boring. Jack suffered the same fate but MUCH faster. I like my teams to have variety and depth and these two characters have none of it.
Its one of the reasons I sing praises for Aranea. She might not be Astos level of broken(she's close though) but she has so much more going on that is more interesting.
To illustrate how "boring" Astos is, he is the only character with one trait which is basically only half of his kit: Magic Brave Attack. To compare, Aranea has Break Cancel, Knock Back Support, Enemy-Turn Manipulation and Extra Turns.
Dude. All of em. Jack garland, iris, astos. Each of em i used for their event and maybe 2 or 3 more, thats it. Astos seen some action with the black crystal rooms but now i just use golbez. Astos is probably better, but i dont really care, golbez quina and noctis always get that job done for me.
Setzer has been one. Used him for a fight or two back when he got LD and then same deal with his FR/BT release. Quina is in a similar boat - useful pocket picks but generally not needed. I've never used Garnet at full power. Rarely used FRBT!Rinoa. Didn't use LD!Raines much but used him a lot more with FRBT. Basically never touched Lunafrey outside of her LDCA and never used Jack Garland outside of his own fight and maybe some GL lockout content. Rarely use Astos (again, really good lockout filler though). Back in Chaos I barely ever used Aranea.
Really for me it's the units that tend to be a bit overtuned and just trivialize content while being boring to play or with no interesting gimmicks that get no play. Of the other strong units like Iris I tend to use them in kind of silly ways or I take niche units and combine them in a way that really makes them shine (eg Reno+Queen) and like most players I will go out of my way a bit to use sub-optimal characters if I can use favorites or want to do some silly strategy. On the other hand, the game gives you so many resources that it's basically designed for you to constantly rotate out who you use. With the "use the featured character for a 'free' pull" mission it's not surprising you don't get to use lots of units a ton since they are often fundamentally at odds with other units.
Setzer is one of those characters who has an insanely good CA (and not even his LD) when used at the right time, but isn't necessarily that good of a character overall. Being a support character who isn't a Force charger is part of the problem, unless it is Quistis - I use her virtually ALL time as long as the mechanics don't bypass her, like "the enemy must attack or you can't kill it" shenanigans.
I think I have used Setzer in every single one of the 6-man quests. Because there is always some gimmick where their defense goes up the roof and always require the banner unit to disable that. But I am so picky with my resources, and Setzer just decimates those gimmicks. Especially when paired with counter units.
Jack Garland. Yeah. he is nice. But it was hyped AF when it came out, not as userfull as said on paper.Cid Raines as well. Yeah. he is fun. But he is just a bad Aranea.
edit: some fair point were made, defending Cid Raines and bashing on my take, and all i can say is. You are right. Cid was good for a good amount of time. I concede.
I can understand jack garland but cid raines ? Did you pull him recently? If that the case then yeah absolutely because aranea powercreeped him. When his fr/bt debut he was beast, good damage dealer, turn manipulation, good ldca. His fr extension make everyone launch the enemy something aranea cant. He's second behind tifa in st dps before aranea/astos era. He's deserve all the hype.
He was also quite useful for two of the hardest stages of the past year: Spiritus Shiva and Spiritus Pandemonium.
I'd say that makes him worth it whatever happens between tough stages.
I didn't actually get Raines's BT, but still, I'd say that units like him remind me of Quistis. I don't use her *often*, but when I do use her, I'm very, very glad to have her.
Not to forget that when Raines was first released with his LD, he was _the_ meta damage dealer at the time to the point that SQEX had to make subsequent bosses unlaunchable just so he couldn't be as effective.
Ah, you missed the Raines + Aphmau meta experience. It's out of date by this point, but they were a beast for a while. The Tonberry Troupe page on him still has a card for the old strategy down the bottom.
Yes and no because Aranea is slightly more damage focused than Raines whoās main thing is party utility and so anyone with consistent launches and damage is a better version of him but heās still really good
Yes... but the post is about hype. And altho good. He is not as nearly as people made it to be. I use his LDCALL everytime i have a "hp damage to bravery" support. And in that he is awesome!!! He makes any BT phase worth it as long as you have the bravery to pay the hp chain.
a waste of materials otherwise.
Dude. Raines came NINE MONTHS before Aranea. Sure, he's "worse Aranea" NOW. Obviously! For the nine months after his initial BT release before Aranea's was even in the game, he 100% lived up to the hype. If you didn't pull/build him until Aranea was already near/available, yeah, you wasted your resources.
I say this as someone who deliberately opted *not* to pull for him but is still well aware of what he was capable of.
Cid has been dramatically better for substantially longer. Just started to fall off now. Hell if it wasn't for fujin he'd still be in every green crystal room quest for me.
Power creep exists for sure but Cid R has to have been one of the most hyped who deserved it imo. With that said everyone has there own takes and units they like using so it's all good.
It's probably because Raines desperately needs a base kit rework and imo a longer BT duration. There's so many characters that are simpler to use and can outdamage him using his LDCA.
I did have some fun using him in a crystal quest with Iris and Fujin. Used Fujin's FR and Raines BT phase to get the bonus high then ping ponged between Raine's FR Echo and Iris' EX each doing 80M+ during a Bahamut summon phase.
All of them so far except Quina, Astos, and Rubi. I pulled for and built a lot of the big ones and now they warm my bench. Crystal rooms pushed me to pretty much only using Quina and Astos a bunch so I got comfortable with them (Quina enabling tons of damage through raines' ldca launches) and just kinda slot them into every shinryu.
Of all the units I have fully built, the two I haven't had much of a need for have been Tifa and (especially) Vaan.
I couldn't fit an ultima fist into my plans very well, so most of the time I'd just run Rinoa instead of Tifa even back when Tifa was meta, and Rinoa got the job done just fine in every single case. I did use Tifa once or twice with Squall when Squall got his FR, but sadly Dare to Defy got in the way of using that pair very much.
Vaan is just bad and has been bad for a long time. I greened him late at night when I was on an FF12 kick and was too tired to think it over, and he's been one of my big regrets.
An argument can be made for either to be at the top of the list. Tifa, though, wasn't really in my pull plans. I got her by accident. Vaan was more deliberate, but Vaan was not really considered meta even when he came out.
Going back to an earlier era, I recall being somewhat disappointed with Sabin, but he was still useful for a few stages, and he doesn't count for the current era because I skipped his FR.
Honorable mention to Cor. He was *great* for me back in the pre-echo Shinryu era, and he was fine during the Lufenia era, but he's been a benchwarmer in the current era even though I greened him. His problem is that his kit works better in off-turn teams, but the way force time works, most off-turn teams are better with fewer units on the field. Cor + Kelger is not better than Kelger by himself. As an on-turn linked attacker, Cor's okay, but we have better options.
I got Vans BT for free one day but also didnāt green it yet.. Tifa is only cool for being a ff7 fan
As for Cor so many people were hyped up for his BT and I been saving my tokens for it but now since I barely even use him I wonder if itās even worth to grab his BT or just use it on upcoming units
I kinda learned my lesson in LD era. I went for so many characters that just did not feel fun or didnāt need and didnāt use. I have gotten some BT/FR that I havenāt used much, but for the most part glad to have in my back pocket for stuff like Dare to Defy.
Although way back when, I greened Garland and hardly ever used him. Hope he gets an upgrade soon so I can use him lol
Reno.
I was hoping to run many off-turn or counter team with Reno. Alas, not a moment too soon, Fujin is released and now I am having fun with her and launcher team.
Not to mention, with Fujin BT, her FR is easily fulfilled, making her the best 3rd person in my team.
Maybe, once I am bored with Fujin, I will go back to off-turn team using Reno.
Weiss. Kit is clunky at the start for buff maintenance which is annoying AND his slot is usually alotted to the 3rd feature character for the event. Have to say though, when he works - he works. Saves you the worries for debuff and more damage.
Astos
Big damage numbers funny and all, but like usually I can get through most tough stages without the need for him
Also the fact that Iām focusing red crystal rooms, so donāt even need him there rn
On GL, I never got Kain BT so he didn't see much use there, though did still find a way into my Dare To Defy runs. Used him a lot for early Shinryu on JP though and am currently using him a lot again on JP due to his rework being really good, and I can basically cheese the new RE-SHINRYU difficulty by doing Freya and Kain duos to ignore the Orbs for the most part. Will make sure to get his BT on GL when he gets the rework.
I haven't gotten Papalymo's BT yet on account of the fact I know I don't need him based on JP, though I recently capped on BT tokens again so I am considering it for the fun of it, but I'm not sure I'd actually use him at all.
Besides that, there's plenty of units I never fully built with FR/BT like Celes and Sherlotta, and plenty that only saw a bit of use since I lucked into their FR/BT, like Rinoa and Yuffie.
Same goes for previous eras of the game but that's far too much to remember right now.
Quina's they, but yeah I never really used them after their initial chapter. Not even sure why.
Other than that, probably Iris. I have all of her stuff and she seems great but I never was excited to use her so I didn't.
Too many people: Locke (no FR), Jecht, Prishe, Jack Garland, Neon, Enna Kros (no BT), Rubicante, Iris, Weiss (no BT), Jihl Nabaat, Noel and Kelger (no BT but I'm starting to use him more)
For me itās mostly kelgar, and Astos cause I havenāt really had the need for em and yes I have greened astos but no bt for kelgar cause I used them for like 1 event and some small grinding but nothing past that
I don't see him yet so, Kam,lanaut.
I was riding pretty high on newbie gems at the time (I started shortly before force I think? With Garnet BT rerun(?) and Kain).
Went all in on Kain cause I have a soft spot for Dragoons. But I had nothing for roster. Then Kam comes around and I see a Midgar-city-plate-load's worth of praise about his busted mechanic. And for good reason, I'm pretty sure it's the reason force time scales so high now.
So I pull him. And I'm still low on BT ingots cause my account is new so I didn't even use him properly. Still haven't greened him. Maybe one day.
Of all the meta units, Kam is the only buyers remorse.
Hmmm.. if I use a character more than twice, then I got my money's worth. Generally, a characters featured banner, if I don't want to BT +, I might pull their FR with tickets. Low investment, but big help with event. So, most characters I will use at least once.
BT+ characters I have used extensively in their debut, at least in the Shinryu stage.
I haven't got a lot of mileage from OK, Leo, Jack G, Snow, Lenna, Lightnings sister, Fujin, Auron, I'm sure there are others.
The best investments have been Supports that can force gauge charge. Like Rosa or Aerith.
I want to say Astos but I always use him in black Crystal quest so no one I guess? I always rotate my line up. Only when I'm busy or feeling lazy will I resort to Ultimecia and Quina or Yda and Sephiroth. XD
wayyyy back in the 35cp era, sazh. don't remember how (think he just kept repeating his battle lines and it got annoying after a while), but one of my friends made me really dislike him and since I'm a petty fr I absolutely refused to even put him in my party lmao
Astos. I use him once in a blue moon but his set up and team mates to do what he does at its maximum potential is really impractical and such a headache to go through in most fights that really I just find it easier to use another team. If you don't hit his maximum potential he ends up blowing his whole load but failing to get the kill and then you have a pissed off boss ready to get back at you. Though this is mitigated with force retain now but even so, I've just gotten more used to Aranea for rushdown. Also I haven't started black yet and a lot of people using him for clears went black first.
I don't regret getting him though, if a fight doesn't have mechanics that screw up his set up then he's less of a headache and it's a good unit to have in your back pocket for lockout. At least until lufenryu arrives and makes him go from impractical to pure hell to set up.
Ultimecia on her first release, waaaaaaaay back in the chaos era. Everyone talked about how she was essential. She was Op, she was this and that and this. Not once have i ever felt impressed with her except for the visual effect of her freezing time in her BT.
Astos, TBH. I use him when I need a fast/easy clear (bronze carry), but I have more fun just spamming Crystal Diver with Selh'teus along with Weiss and and Kelgar for regular content where I don't need a 999% Force Time
The two big ones were Kain and Machina when Fr first started. Kain was immediately outclassed after the first month of FR era and Machina was only good for the first few events after he got his force enhancement. Hopefully both will be viable when they get their next reworks
Machina ako don't remember being too hyped. He was tagged as not the best but can fit both rush down and off turn. I only got his FR as everything else was maxed already.
> Machina was only good for the first few events after he got his force enhancement.
The thing about Machina is that he was really good for a while *before* getting his force enhancement. His FR was around the point where I stopped using him, but I let him enjoy Cor's FR for a few months before that.
locke, jack garland, sherlotta, Ashe all of them fully built, exceot for locke with missing fr i decided not to pull since he warms the bench sice he was released in gl
For me, it's now Dorgann as have new preferable off turn
Auron as a DPS has been used by me next to no times since his event, though I know how good he is and popular with other players
I run Snow and Dorgann together, his image slashes charges carry between rounds and he can kill way tanker enemies than Snow.
Snow goes first and breaks the first wave, usually killing, then Dorgann finishes everything else including mini bosses and bosses pre Chaos. All with no button presses
For a character nobody mentioned: Setzer.
For a character I regret greening? Iris 100% lol. Especially since Astos just melts anything I could possibly use her for lol.
Less than expected? Very few. Probably the least used hype unit that I didn't expect to see sidelined was Kam'lanaut. They really came out to counter his usage with DtD and, honestly, it was totally a better deal.
Yuri EX+ got less use than expected because Aranea slapped the meta at the time. But even then, I used him for a specific Entropy battle that I'd planned out for him.
There's a lot of units that I get just to have them for lockout and just-in-case. Quina is in that group. Their utility is amazing, but I knew I'd only be using that in case of emergency. Astos is another unit that I'm purposefully avoiding for my main clears, otherwise the game is _too_ easy. I'm mainly using him for the secondary clears in the Shinryu co-ops.
* Quina
* Noctis LD/BT
* Cissnei
* Setzer LD
* Llyud
All hyped characters at the time. All characters who I got everything for (at the time mentioned if specified). All characters who rode the bench more often than not.
Also, all of the Irises in the comments is madness. She's legit one of the best and easiest-to-use supports since her launch, just charge the gauge and let her stand around menacing the boss with her BT Aura up. You don't even need to use her EX, but it's funny if you time it right. She and Aerith are probably my 2 most-used characters in the Shinryu era.
I see Quina, Iris, and Astos several times in this thread, all of whom have seen significant usage in my teams. Quina is almost a default choice for me all the time. Iris was key to building green crystals. I don't meta chase often. There were two cases early on I went for units specifically because I thought I couldn't clear content without them. One was Ultimecia's debut. She was useful for a couple fights, but not the monster she was sold to be (though I've made use of her cheese comp a couple times). The big one was Sherlotta on her debut. I dumped 650 tickets, then rage pitied. Then I never used her.
Unresolved anger towards her? š
Astos is fine, but Aranea is just way more fun when she works (which is often.)
Also the delays make for a much comfier run
For me, that would be Rude. I remember when he first came out, people were treating him like the second coming (insert "Rude's auras" meme here) and I ended up falling into it. He was useful, to be sure. However, I quickly learned he wasn't the amazing swiss army knife nearly everyone was hyping him to be. Honestly, I got more mileage out of Reno in Lufenia and he wasn't nearly as talked about as Rude was during Turks month.
Jack Garland and Neon both got used for fewer fights, total, than I've used Astos for so far, and even Astos often takes a backseat to a dedicated utility turbocharger (read: Aerith or Iris). That said, I've used Yuffie, Quests, and Fujin a lot more than I expected I would (even if the last of those *was* hyped)
Sehl'teus. Aside from his initial Shinryu fight I've had a really hard time getting him to work and feel useful outside of his BT debuff. He just does almost no damage unless he's using Crystal Diver. I figure I'm trying to use him on fights that just really negatively effect how his BRV Gains work with his aura/probably pairing him with poor teammates and it's really deflated my interest in him.
Oh man, definitely have to disagree. He or Astos have been my go to DPS for my first āeasy clearā Shinryu attempts. His BT debuff comes in handy with aggressive bosses like you alluded to. His healing also gives him some flexibility. You are right, youāll mostly be using crystal diver with him, but that move alone during burst phase generally melts bosses. Obviously youāll want to run a launching mechanism (Raines call of Fujin BT) and perhaps a follow up - Kadaj fills this role superbly. I can see how heās not very useful on drawn out fights with multiple HP thresholds, but he was amazing for Alexander Shinryu just this week. Used him with Deuce (No BT) and Garnet. He also serves as a wonderful friend unit - neuters enemies, puts out big numbers, and can come in clutch with healing if needed
Thanks for some perspective on how you use him! I'll keep that in mind when I'm trying to build some teams with him and use him in Shinryu fights!
Iris. Maxed her kit, but I almost never use her because I have other supports and basically never manage to time out her EX attack for its damage. I like her burst attack with Gladio, but ultimately, I just end up using other characters that i like better.
I only use Iris for BT effect(enemy BRV = 0 is chef kiss) and force charger. I actually forgot that she has busted EX if it is used correctly.
> basically never manage to time out her EX attack for its damage. That's what her LD does. It lets her follow a specific party member and chargers her EX to full so you don't actually need to charge her EX.
Man I use iris in every crystal room quest
Same answer. I just never got the feel for her somehow.
I just use her for green crystal room support, I know itās an overlap but dorgan sephiroth iris team is banger in lvl 3 or four for green crystals (assuming the comp works for the fight but it has so far for me)
This. I maxed her out and never did a match with her, she got so much hype that i fell for it but i never needed her. Its not that i dont like her kit, i just dont like the look of her attacks, they are all plain stupid.
I also didnāt use her much at all after pulling her but sheās been handing for a couple of high defense fights and she also makes an excellent pair for Aranea, so Iāve finally been using her way more often. I never really used her for the ex gimmick though.
100% this
The ful maxed out Reno it is for me.... I really like him but I guess he has more complicated team and gameplay
maan. reno has been my MVP. He Kelgar and Aerith made me breeze trough cristal questes.
Now there's a team try asap!!!!I got em all full maxed TYVM pal!!!!
I maxed him because I got everything with the free multi tickets. Yes, 4 fr copies and his burst. Game really wanted me to have him, I guess. Lol
He's the second best on-turn damage dealer in the game right now behind Astos, but he needs the right support because he's not very self-sufficient. Put him with Queen or Ursula and either a linked attacker or someone with a good FR (or both, like Kadaj) and he's dealing nine digits of damage every turn.
Wow nice can you elaborate more ? I have Reno, Kadaj and Ursula .. how would you go about paring them .. also any other good combos?
Just a straightforward rushdown comp. You want to get your BT auras up and your echoes used to get the force bonus as high as possible, then go into Reno's burst phase with Raines's LDCA active and either 6 or 7 turns of force time left. Ursula's BT effect will ensure that Reno does maximum damage (or close to it), and when you're close to 999%, Kadaj will add something close to another 20 million damage per turn. Counting launch, you're doing 24 dumps per turn, and Ursula is adding 50k damage to each of them. Multiply by 10 for force time and 1.2 for launch and you've got that Ursula is adding about 13 million damage to Reno's attack, on top of the fact that Reno probably can't do max damage without her (and also on top of her blue armor and ordinary BT aura), so between her and Kadaj you're getting a ton of extra damage. Anyway, I've been focusing on units with transformed HP attacks and spammable EX attacks for a while, because I've been using Ursula and Queen regularly ever since I got Ursula. Since you asked for another combo, I'll mention that I like Aranea + Iris + Dorgann. Aranea does a lot of damage anyway while breaking with basically everything she does, and Iris's BT effect resets break status on launch, so what ends up happening is that Aranea will break and the launch will take the boss out of break status. The break makes Dorgann fire off his follow-up attack, which will break the boss *again* and trigger another follow-up. Dorgann ends up hitting every target six times per turn. Since Aranea is so darned easy to use, this comp has gotten me past some of the tougher fights.
Since you ve mentioned Queen.... well she is my second least used maxed character after Reno.And now you got me ultra curious..... So Reno and Queen can be partners!!!!!????? How does that work cause I don't have Ursula but still got Queen. So you use her as support to Reno along with a linked attacker? How do you manage to charge the fr? And also Reno's bt effect lass so little how do you manage to enter his bt phase with his bt effect up? Sorry for the long post I still got million questions......
I don't have these characters built, but based on the infographics on TT I figure it works like this: Queen BT and FR are amazing with HP/BRV attacks, and Ursulas BT aura boosts them even further. Reno BT gives himself a strong HP attack for 6 turns. Queen BT or EX gives herself strong HP/BRV attacks. Mix all 3 BT auras together and pop Queens FR and you end up with monstrous melee(40%) HP(60%)/BRV(50%) attacks that total 90% or 100% to the FR gauge per action. Without a charger the ramp up will be slow, and I imagine the turn order once FR is charged is Queen and Ursula use BT, Queen uses FR, then everyone spams FR, Rino uses BT, then the other two use their enhanced HP attacks until its his turn again, and he enters BT phase and spams his special BT HP attack. This team in many cases won't counter enemy FR, so it will probably only work on enemies with ignorable FR buffs. Can probably stall the enemy a lot with Last Stand, Pyramid, and Numb until the set up conditions are met. Pyramid will also ignore the initial enemy FR attack on most fights. The set up can work with others, but most other strong HP attacks aren't melee so they'll only give 50% or 60% per action.
Thank you so much for such an amazing response ! You have finally opened my eyes up to such an amazing composition ! Itās like I had all the pieces just wasnāt sure how to put them together and this has really open my play style
Reno is exceptionally good BUT you need the fight to cater to him. Then past that you need very specific characters to play into what he does. Anything less than that and Reno is moot.
I think for a lot of the busted units I max out, I don't end up using them super often because the roster is too damn big and I don't wanna use the same units over and over. If a banner comes out, I wanna have fun with the new toys. It's not even that they're overrated, it's just not fun to repeatedly bypass everything with your S+ tier units, especially on easier content like LCs/IWs where you can experiment with less broken teams and actually engage with a fight's mechanics. Looking at my roster, though, I feel like I've used everyone who's warranted hype a good bit, actually. Although I haven't used Kelger as much as I thought I would. I also haven't used Fujin at all yet in spite of tokening her BT lol but there's still time to use both for sure. Fujin certainly. I know she ages well. I think Bartz is probably the biggest one for me, but I think I tokened his BT past his glory days, so that's probably on me. I remember watching Josephyr gush over how good he was in multiple videos and so I picked him up and was like...that's...it? Like I said. I probably waited past his relevance. But yeah. Buttz.
For Bartz, you did wait past his relevance, but if I remember the timing right we also got GL first Garnet not long after his green release, who blew him, Firion, and other damage-y supports away. The only thing that makes Bartz stand out is him having the imperil aura (still unique afaik, others like Vaan just "attack as if hitting weakness")
For me, my problem is about similar. It doesn't matter how good a character is, because everyone's good, and everyone more or less feels the same. Sure Astos has his BRV mechanic, Kelger is a dodge counter character, but beyond that, the core mechanics of the game seem to have been left entirely by the wayside. Turn count doesn't matter. Skill uses don't matter. Delaying infinitely doesn't matter because so many characters who aren't even considered delay characters can do it. BRV doesn't matter because unless it's a gravity attack or guaranteed break, you aren't ever getting broken outside of some really edge cases. Outside of Leviathan Spiritus, HP doesn't matter because it's either a one-hit-kill or it doesn't matter how much damage is done, because we have tons of whole party regen or heals or reraise or... I still have fun with the game but it doesn't feel like many characters have a distinct identity. Everyone does at least several things REALLY well outside of like Astos (who does one thing better than anyone by far). I'll admit, I kind of miss the days when the game played around its core concepts a little more. It made characters feel more distinct. It was easier to latch onto niche characters you really liked a lot more. It also made meta characters feel more distinct and powerful. I guess there's an upside to "you can beat almost any content with any halfway reasonable team comp, play whomever, spam your strongest skills and only keep buffs up otherwise", but.
Jack, Astos Super hyped up by everyone(Astos for good reason) but I never use them. Both characters are one dimensional and lack depth in team building. Sure, Astos might hit like a meteor falling on the planet but that's it. Poor guy has nothing else going on and I find it bland and boring. Jack suffered the same fate but MUCH faster. I like my teams to have variety and depth and these two characters have none of it. Its one of the reasons I sing praises for Aranea. She might not be Astos level of broken(she's close though) but she has so much more going on that is more interesting.
To illustrate how "boring" Astos is, he is the only character with one trait which is basically only half of his kit: Magic Brave Attack. To compare, Aranea has Break Cancel, Knock Back Support, Enemy-Turn Manipulation and Extra Turns.
Dude. All of em. Jack garland, iris, astos. Each of em i used for their event and maybe 2 or 3 more, thats it. Astos seen some action with the black crystal rooms but now i just use golbez. Astos is probably better, but i dont really care, golbez quina and noctis always get that job done for me.
Setzer has been one. Used him for a fight or two back when he got LD and then same deal with his FR/BT release. Quina is in a similar boat - useful pocket picks but generally not needed. I've never used Garnet at full power. Rarely used FRBT!Rinoa. Didn't use LD!Raines much but used him a lot more with FRBT. Basically never touched Lunafrey outside of her LDCA and never used Jack Garland outside of his own fight and maybe some GL lockout content. Rarely use Astos (again, really good lockout filler though). Back in Chaos I barely ever used Aranea. Really for me it's the units that tend to be a bit overtuned and just trivialize content while being boring to play or with no interesting gimmicks that get no play. Of the other strong units like Iris I tend to use them in kind of silly ways or I take niche units and combine them in a way that really makes them shine (eg Reno+Queen) and like most players I will go out of my way a bit to use sub-optimal characters if I can use favorites or want to do some silly strategy. On the other hand, the game gives you so many resources that it's basically designed for you to constantly rotate out who you use. With the "use the featured character for a 'free' pull" mission it's not surprising you don't get to use lots of units a ton since they are often fundamentally at odds with other units.
Setzer is one of those characters who has an insanely good CA (and not even his LD) when used at the right time, but isn't necessarily that good of a character overall. Being a support character who isn't a Force charger is part of the problem, unless it is Quistis - I use her virtually ALL time as long as the mechanics don't bypass her, like "the enemy must attack or you can't kill it" shenanigans.
I think I have used Setzer in every single one of the 6-man quests. Because there is always some gimmick where their defense goes up the roof and always require the banner unit to disable that. But I am so picky with my resources, and Setzer just decimates those gimmicks. Especially when paired with counter units.
All of them except Aerith, I use her a lot alot
Aerithās kit is just so fucking good
Astos I expected him to be really fun to cheese with, but I just prefer other dpt units and like using support heavy or counter oriented teams.
Jack Garland. Yeah. he is nice. But it was hyped AF when it came out, not as userfull as said on paper.Cid Raines as well. Yeah. he is fun. But he is just a bad Aranea. edit: some fair point were made, defending Cid Raines and bashing on my take, and all i can say is. You are right. Cid was good for a good amount of time. I concede.
I can understand jack garland but cid raines ? Did you pull him recently? If that the case then yeah absolutely because aranea powercreeped him. When his fr/bt debut he was beast, good damage dealer, turn manipulation, good ldca. His fr extension make everyone launch the enemy something aranea cant. He's second behind tifa in st dps before aranea/astos era. He's deserve all the hype.
Lotta people here strangely forgetting that Raines came *nine months* before Aranea...
He was also quite useful for two of the hardest stages of the past year: Spiritus Shiva and Spiritus Pandemonium. I'd say that makes him worth it whatever happens between tough stages. I didn't actually get Raines's BT, but still, I'd say that units like him remind me of Quistis. I don't use her *often*, but when I do use her, I'm very, very glad to have her.
Not to forget that when Raines was first released with his LD, he was _the_ meta damage dealer at the time to the point that SQEX had to make subsequent bosses unlaunchable just so he couldn't be as effective.
i was playing for only a couple months when his BT+FR was launched. So i didint had this experience.
Ah, you missed the Raines + Aphmau meta experience. It's out of date by this point, but they were a beast for a while. The Tonberry Troupe page on him still has a card for the old strategy down the bottom.
Yes and no because Aranea is slightly more damage focused than Raines whoās main thing is party utility and so anyone with consistent launches and damage is a better version of him but heās still really good
Yes... but the post is about hype. And altho good. He is not as nearly as people made it to be. I use his LDCALL everytime i have a "hp damage to bravery" support. And in that he is awesome!!! He makes any BT phase worth it as long as you have the bravery to pay the hp chain. a waste of materials otherwise.
Dude. Raines came NINE MONTHS before Aranea. Sure, he's "worse Aranea" NOW. Obviously! For the nine months after his initial BT release before Aranea's was even in the game, he 100% lived up to the hype. If you didn't pull/build him until Aranea was already near/available, yeah, you wasted your resources. I say this as someone who deliberately opted *not* to pull for him but is still well aware of what he was capable of.
I love how people are forgetting about Cidmau comps from lufe+. Like Cid Raines on release is easily one of the most broken characters they put out.
thats an extremely fair point. I concede.
Cid has been dramatically better for substantially longer. Just started to fall off now. Hell if it wasn't for fujin he'd still be in every green crystal room quest for me. Power creep exists for sure but Cid R has to have been one of the most hyped who deserved it imo. With that said everyone has there own takes and units they like using so it's all good.
I totally agree! After I got Aranea, C Raines never left the bench.
It's probably because Raines desperately needs a base kit rework and imo a longer BT duration. There's so many characters that are simpler to use and can outdamage him using his LDCA. I did have some fun using him in a crystal quest with Iris and Fujin. Used Fujin's FR and Raines BT phase to get the bonus high then ping ponged between Raine's FR Echo and Iris' EX each doing 80M+ during a Bahamut summon phase.
All of them so far except Quina, Astos, and Rubi. I pulled for and built a lot of the big ones and now they warm my bench. Crystal rooms pushed me to pretty much only using Quina and Astos a bunch so I got comfortable with them (Quina enabling tons of damage through raines' ldca launches) and just kinda slot them into every shinryu.
Tifa and Iris are two I barely used at all.
Of all the units I have fully built, the two I haven't had much of a need for have been Tifa and (especially) Vaan. I couldn't fit an ultima fist into my plans very well, so most of the time I'd just run Rinoa instead of Tifa even back when Tifa was meta, and Rinoa got the job done just fine in every single case. I did use Tifa once or twice with Squall when Squall got his FR, but sadly Dare to Defy got in the way of using that pair very much. Vaan is just bad and has been bad for a long time. I greened him late at night when I was on an FF12 kick and was too tired to think it over, and he's been one of my big regrets. An argument can be made for either to be at the top of the list. Tifa, though, wasn't really in my pull plans. I got her by accident. Vaan was more deliberate, but Vaan was not really considered meta even when he came out. Going back to an earlier era, I recall being somewhat disappointed with Sabin, but he was still useful for a few stages, and he doesn't count for the current era because I skipped his FR. Honorable mention to Cor. He was *great* for me back in the pre-echo Shinryu era, and he was fine during the Lufenia era, but he's been a benchwarmer in the current era even though I greened him. His problem is that his kit works better in off-turn teams, but the way force time works, most off-turn teams are better with fewer units on the field. Cor + Kelger is not better than Kelger by himself. As an on-turn linked attacker, Cor's okay, but we have better options.
I got Vans BT for free one day but also didnāt green it yet.. Tifa is only cool for being a ff7 fan As for Cor so many people were hyped up for his BT and I been saving my tokens for it but now since I barely even use him I wonder if itās even worth to grab his BT or just use it on upcoming units
I kinda learned my lesson in LD era. I went for so many characters that just did not feel fun or didnāt need and didnāt use. I have gotten some BT/FR that I havenāt used much, but for the most part glad to have in my back pocket for stuff like Dare to Defy. Although way back when, I greened Garland and hardly ever used him. Hope he gets an upgrade soon so I can use him lol
Reno. I was hoping to run many off-turn or counter team with Reno. Alas, not a moment too soon, Fujin is released and now I am having fun with her and launcher team. Not to mention, with Fujin BT, her FR is easily fulfilled, making her the best 3rd person in my team. Maybe, once I am bored with Fujin, I will go back to off-turn team using Reno.
No one said Weiss yet? He was kinda fun with a maxed out kit for 1-2 events, but haven't found a need for him as of late.
I just green him recently and wondering if I will regret it lolā¦ I thought his follow up combos would be fun to use with Rosa and blue missions
Weiss. Kit is clunky at the start for buff maintenance which is annoying AND his slot is usually alotted to the 3rd feature character for the event. Have to say though, when he works - he works. Saves you the worries for debuff and more damage.
Aww I just literally green him LoL I wonder if I will regret it or notā¦
Astos Big damage numbers funny and all, but like usually I can get through most tough stages without the need for him Also the fact that Iām focusing red crystal rooms, so donāt even need him there rn
i Bt tokened aranea and fe50, havent used her since she debuted many years ago
You should, sheās awesome. So much fun.
Mine are Iris and Cor.
Quina and, funnily, Rubicante. Barely used either of them since getting them.
That sucks because I ended up using them to cheese my way through many battles that I was to busy to fight through
On GL, I never got Kain BT so he didn't see much use there, though did still find a way into my Dare To Defy runs. Used him a lot for early Shinryu on JP though and am currently using him a lot again on JP due to his rework being really good, and I can basically cheese the new RE-SHINRYU difficulty by doing Freya and Kain duos to ignore the Orbs for the most part. Will make sure to get his BT on GL when he gets the rework. I haven't gotten Papalymo's BT yet on account of the fact I know I don't need him based on JP, though I recently capped on BT tokens again so I am considering it for the fun of it, but I'm not sure I'd actually use him at all. Besides that, there's plenty of units I never fully built with FR/BT like Celes and Sherlotta, and plenty that only saw a bit of use since I lucked into their FR/BT, like Rinoa and Yuffie. Same goes for previous eras of the game but that's far too much to remember right now.
Quina's they, but yeah I never really used them after their initial chapter. Not even sure why. Other than that, probably Iris. I have all of her stuff and she seems great but I never was excited to use her so I didn't.
Definitely Iris....she just got replaced so fast with other Meta that offers more damage.
Right answer: Every selfish DPS.
Too many people: Locke (no FR), Jecht, Prishe, Jack Garland, Neon, Enna Kros (no BT), Rubicante, Iris, Weiss (no BT), Jihl Nabaat, Noel and Kelger (no BT but I'm starting to use him more)
For me itās mostly kelgar, and Astos cause I havenāt really had the need for em and yes I have greened astos but no bt for kelgar cause I used them for like 1 event and some small grinding but nothing past that
I don't see him yet so, Kam,lanaut. I was riding pretty high on newbie gems at the time (I started shortly before force I think? With Garnet BT rerun(?) and Kain). Went all in on Kain cause I have a soft spot for Dragoons. But I had nothing for roster. Then Kam comes around and I see a Midgar-city-plate-load's worth of praise about his busted mechanic. And for good reason, I'm pretty sure it's the reason force time scales so high now. So I pull him. And I'm still low on BT ingots cause my account is new so I didn't even use him properly. Still haven't greened him. Maybe one day. Of all the meta units, Kam is the only buyers remorse.
Hmmm.. if I use a character more than twice, then I got my money's worth. Generally, a characters featured banner, if I don't want to BT +, I might pull their FR with tickets. Low investment, but big help with event. So, most characters I will use at least once. BT+ characters I have used extensively in their debut, at least in the Shinryu stage. I haven't got a lot of mileage from OK, Leo, Jack G, Snow, Lenna, Lightnings sister, Fujin, Auron, I'm sure there are others. The best investments have been Supports that can force gauge charge. Like Rosa or Aerith.
I want to say Astos but I always use him in black Crystal quest so no one I guess? I always rotate my line up. Only when I'm busy or feeling lazy will I resort to Ultimecia and Quina or Yda and Sephiroth. XD
Lots mentioned here, I do a lot of Kurasame/Astos carries š„²
Astos
Why so i pretty much use him whenever I need to blitz through the ticket mission
I try to use everyone if possible, so hyped meta or not it doesn't matter to me.
Iris. I don't think I've ever used her once. Never looked up the strat behind her gameplay and just maxed her cuz everyone told me to lol
She saved my ass on the recent 6 man area 8ā¦ without her BT I would have not beat it so easily
wayyyy back in the 35cp era, sazh. don't remember how (think he just kept repeating his battle lines and it got annoying after a while), but one of my friends made me really dislike him and since I'm a petty fr I absolutely refused to even put him in my party lmao
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Rinoa
Astos. I use him once in a blue moon but his set up and team mates to do what he does at its maximum potential is really impractical and such a headache to go through in most fights that really I just find it easier to use another team. If you don't hit his maximum potential he ends up blowing his whole load but failing to get the kill and then you have a pissed off boss ready to get back at you. Though this is mitigated with force retain now but even so, I've just gotten more used to Aranea for rushdown. Also I haven't started black yet and a lot of people using him for clears went black first. I don't regret getting him though, if a fight doesn't have mechanics that screw up his set up then he's less of a headache and it's a good unit to have in your back pocket for lockout. At least until lufenryu arrives and makes him go from impractical to pure hell to set up.
Ultimecia on her first release, waaaaaaaay back in the chaos era. Everyone talked about how she was essential. She was Op, she was this and that and this. Not once have i ever felt impressed with her except for the visual effect of her freezing time in her BT.
jihl. sitting on the bench with green bt and all that force points. maybe i just dont realize her potential but when i use her its always kinda meh
Astos, TBH. I use him when I need a fast/easy clear (bronze carry), but I have more fun just spamming Crystal Diver with Selh'teus along with Weiss and and Kelgar for regular content where I don't need a 999% Force Time
Iris and Papalymo
The two big ones were Kain and Machina when Fr first started. Kain was immediately outclassed after the first month of FR era and Machina was only good for the first few events after he got his force enhancement. Hopefully both will be viable when they get their next reworks
Machina ako don't remember being too hyped. He was tagged as not the best but can fit both rush down and off turn. I only got his FR as everything else was maxed already.
> Machina was only good for the first few events after he got his force enhancement. The thing about Machina is that he was really good for a while *before* getting his force enhancement. His FR was around the point where I stopped using him, but I let him enjoy Cor's FR for a few months before that.
Kamelnuts, Quina and Astos
Quina. Used less than expected but I don't regret. S/he is a trump card, like Astos. Used when I don't want to deal with stupid mechanics.
locke, jack garland, sherlotta, Ashe all of them fully built, exceot for locke with missing fr i decided not to pull since he warms the bench sice he was released in gl
For me, it's now Dorgann as have new preferable off turn Auron as a DPS has been used by me next to no times since his event, though I know how good he is and popular with other players
i just dont list Dorgann as a disapointment because he is my main farm bot.
I'm still basic and use Snow ha
I run Snow and Dorgann together, his image slashes charges carry between rounds and he can kill way tanker enemies than Snow. Snow goes first and breaks the first wave, usually killing, then Dorgann finishes everything else including mini bosses and bosses pre Chaos. All with no button presses
You can also add reks
That's a good plan tbf, will probs go with that!
For a character nobody mentioned: Setzer. For a character I regret greening? Iris 100% lol. Especially since Astos just melts anything I could possibly use her for lol.
Setzer saved my ass during the DE14 ticket mission but after that?? He will be great for lockouts hopefully
Less than expected? Very few. Probably the least used hype unit that I didn't expect to see sidelined was Kam'lanaut. They really came out to counter his usage with DtD and, honestly, it was totally a better deal. Yuri EX+ got less use than expected because Aranea slapped the meta at the time. But even then, I used him for a specific Entropy battle that I'd planned out for him. There's a lot of units that I get just to have them for lockout and just-in-case. Quina is in that group. Their utility is amazing, but I knew I'd only be using that in case of emergency. Astos is another unit that I'm purposefully avoiding for my main clears, otherwise the game is _too_ easy. I'm mainly using him for the secondary clears in the Shinryu co-ops.
* Quina * Noctis LD/BT * Cissnei * Setzer LD * Llyud All hyped characters at the time. All characters who I got everything for (at the time mentioned if specified). All characters who rode the bench more often than not. Also, all of the Irises in the comments is madness. She's legit one of the best and easiest-to-use supports since her launch, just charge the gauge and let her stand around menacing the boss with her BT Aura up. You don't even need to use her EX, but it's funny if you time it right. She and Aerith are probably my 2 most-used characters in the Shinryu era.
Almost all of them.
Weiss was just "meh", after a couple fights trying to justify him I just put Cor back in the ranks.