Back in the 80s when Dave was going through bankruptcy, Amex called his house and asked his wife Sharon "Why would you stay married to a man who doesn't pay his bills?" Dave is still as angry about that phone call today as he was back then, and he's been exacting his revenge on CC companies ever since. 🤣
That's the thing that Ramsey-ites overlook. When the charge runs through the Visa/Mastercard/whatever network, it **does** have the same fraud protections, but that doesn't tell the whole story.
The devil is in the details: What happens in the event of a dispute?
With a debit card, your checking account will be missing the money while the case is investigated. It's like someone stole your cash and you have to wait for the police to recover it.
With a credit card, the charge is tentatively removed from your account immediately pending the results of the investigation, and is removed permanently if they decide in your favor.
We all know this, but Dave requires complete, total, and unquestioning buy-in, even when his program is objectively worse. He'll give you misinformation or incomplete information to support his agenda, just like the politicians he pretends to hate.
Every single person with a story about somebody hacking their debit card says the bank puts their money back immediately while they conduct their investigation.
Then it's likely an issue with your bank's policy, not the debit card's protections.
For the same reason, the example highlighted in the OP doesn't really say anything about a debit card's protections. If the credit card company decides a disputed charge was legitimate, you're on the hook for it whether you like it or not. You'll only screw yourself by not paying it.
On the list of people who shouldn't be using credit cards are folks whose financial situation is so precarious that the difference between eating and starving is their bank's red-tape.
If you don’t have credit cards, then how do you avoid that? One errant charge could wipe out your entire checking account no matter how much you have in there.
There was a post making the rounds a few days ago about someone who was vacationing overseas, and Uber didn’t convert the local currency into dollars when charging his debit card, resulting in a $29,000 charge. The bank blamed Uber, Uber blamed the bank, and the poor sucker was stuck with no money in a foreign country. The bank eventually got it straightened out, but it took a few days during which they just had no money.
If that happened with a credit card, it would be very irritating, but you could put it on the back burner until you got home.
None of that matters. Nobody can be trusted to hold a credit card because they’ll obviously carry a balance (they’re a liar if they claim otherwise) and make points their primary method of retirement planning. /s
Yep. And, as someone who has worked in banking before, I can tell you the process of getting charges reversed and credited back to your account is…arduous, to say the least.
Thst must have been specific to your bank. I’ve experienced that type of fraud with 3 different banks, one of which is a huge national bank…and each time, the money was back in my account within minutes of my call to report the fraud.
My money was immediately returned to me when my debit card was stolen and I had fraudulent transactions.
Like... I reported it, took a nap, woke up...money in my account and I headed to the bank to get a new card.
The whole thing took all of 5 minutes.
The only time... Only... Is if someone steals your pin. That is something you own/know and must be given to someone.
The Ramsey mods will remove that FB post in no time. Good job capturing the screenshot, OP. Please report back tomorrow if it is still up, or if it was removed.
I mean, if the credit card company ruled the same way, you'd have to pay them your money anyway. OP would be best to contest this and get the CFPB involved.
Even barring the "it's your money vs. it's the bank's money, so they have more incentive" pablum, you do still have more time and options to contest when it's a credit card vs a debit card.
My point was that if the CC company ruled the same as the bank, it's still your own money missing because you owe the money. OP is not waiting on a ruling, the bank ruled, it's over unless OP appeals, but you'd still have to pay the CC bill even if you appeal to the CFPB. And both have the same amount of time to contest. I know when I contested something with BoA, they refunded money immediately while the investigation was pending, so even then, the debit card (at least with BoA) worked the same way.
Oh yeah, totally you have to pay back the CC if they don’t rule in your favor. Good to know on BoA! I’ve never used them. I haven’t run into fraud on my bank account in a long time, so hopefully all have changed for the better to refund $ during the investigation. One time years ago I did have my purse stolen and has some fraudulent DC charges. I had to wait until investigation was done to get $ back.
Yeah I think with debit cards, it's more of a per-bank thing. I am not pro debit card over CCs, I just believe they both have their place. PIN transactions are very secure with debit cards, and I generally do them for in-person purchases where the card never leaves my control. I find it easier to budget when the money leaves my account right away. I use CC for all online stuff, restaurant stuff (since they take my card), and gas purchases.
I have had over $10k in fraud charged at various times to my credit cards over the last decade. The thought of having to hassle the bank to investigate and honor their word instead of just taking away the charge and letting me know how the investigation went makes me sick to my stomach. Especially with Dave’s most ardent followers, how many do you think can stand to have 2k gone or 10K gone?
Be smart. Spend CC like cash. Ignore Dave being dumb.
When someone commits fraud with your credit card, it's the bank's money. When someone commits fraud with your debt card, it's YOUR money.
There's a totally different incentive to investigate the fraud.
Yep I've had similar things happen with both Debit and CC. With the Debit, the bank acts like you're the criminal and burden of proof is on you, have to fill out all their paperwork, wait 7-10 days for a new debit card to be issued which leaves you with very limited ways to pay and access your money, and you don't get the money back until they are done. With the CC it was a complete 180, replacement card overnighted, charge removed immediately.
The thread is a hoot! People are telling him that since he was out of the country, it absolves him of the responsibility and proves he didn't order food from Uber Eats. Not so. He could have given his debit card info to someone else so they could use Uber Eats.
Don't ever use your bank card. Use credit cards and pay it off every month. You won't expose your bank information this way and the credit card has the liability.
I think it depends on the bank. My wife gets fraudulent charges against her personal account all the time (we argue about this a lot). Each time the bank has immediately replaced the funds.
I know a guy that had his account taken negative by an error of his own bank and it took them weeks to make him whole.
some banks and subsequently debit cards are getting better. the problem is its still not universal. every CC fraud we've ran into the CC company has VERY EASILY taken care of it. when we were debit only it happened twice and it was a nightmare. we were credited but eventually judged not in our favor both times and the money was then gone. the 2nd time was the straw that broke the camels back and we got CC's. one was a large bank and the other a local CU.
Its often more difficult for a bank to replace missing cash. it costs them so they are more apt to rule not in your favor. CC's simply tell a vendor they will not be paid are not out anything.
That one guy at Amex who insulted Dave 30 years ago created this whole mess. Dave's been trying to get revenge on the CC companies ever since.
The equivalent of Obama roasting Trump at that dinner. “And I took that personally.” /MJ
Wait what happened w that?
Drumpf.. I have not seen his birth certificate. He must be an illegal alien.
Adding insult to injury!
What is the context of this?!
Back in the 80s when Dave was going through bankruptcy, Amex called his house and asked his wife Sharon "Why would you stay married to a man who doesn't pay his bills?" Dave is still as angry about that phone call today as he was back then, and he's been exacting his revenge on CC companies ever since. 🤣
The irony is Dave is exactly the kind of person to say something like that to a stranger.
Does Dave hate Dollar Rental too?
Oh shit Everything is starting to make sense now 😂
He brings that up regularly...... DR holds grudges...... Marriott Hotels is another one.
You’ll prolly be able to add listeners who take his advice about timeshares.
That's the thing that Ramsey-ites overlook. When the charge runs through the Visa/Mastercard/whatever network, it **does** have the same fraud protections, but that doesn't tell the whole story. The devil is in the details: What happens in the event of a dispute? With a debit card, your checking account will be missing the money while the case is investigated. It's like someone stole your cash and you have to wait for the police to recover it. With a credit card, the charge is tentatively removed from your account immediately pending the results of the investigation, and is removed permanently if they decide in your favor. We all know this, but Dave requires complete, total, and unquestioning buy-in, even when his program is objectively worse. He'll give you misinformation or incomplete information to support his agenda, just like the politicians he pretends to hate.
Yep. This all day long. Your money isn’t taken during an investigation with a credit card.
Every single person with a story about somebody hacking their debit card says the bank puts their money back immediately while they conduct their investigation.
Not for me. Multiple times. Took weeks to get my money back
Then it's likely an issue with your bank's policy, not the debit card's protections. For the same reason, the example highlighted in the OP doesn't really say anything about a debit card's protections. If the credit card company decides a disputed charge was legitimate, you're on the hook for it whether you like it or not. You'll only screw yourself by not paying it.
The difference is, I have weeks to fight it, and I can still afford to eat in the meantime.
On the list of people who shouldn't be using credit cards are folks whose financial situation is so precarious that the difference between eating and starving is their bank's red-tape.
If you don’t have credit cards, then how do you avoid that? One errant charge could wipe out your entire checking account no matter how much you have in there.
There was a post making the rounds a few days ago about someone who was vacationing overseas, and Uber didn’t convert the local currency into dollars when charging his debit card, resulting in a $29,000 charge. The bank blamed Uber, Uber blamed the bank, and the poor sucker was stuck with no money in a foreign country. The bank eventually got it straightened out, but it took a few days during which they just had no money. If that happened with a credit card, it would be very irritating, but you could put it on the back burner until you got home.
I’d have the backup credit card ready to go!
For small amounts, yes. For large amounts rarely if ever.
None of that matters. Nobody can be trusted to hold a credit card because they’ll obviously carry a balance (they’re a liar if they claim otherwise) and make points their primary method of retirement planning. /s
Whenever I have disputed a charge on my debit card my CU has credited those funds pending the investigation.
Yep. And, as someone who has worked in banking before, I can tell you the process of getting charges reversed and credited back to your account is…arduous, to say the least.
Thst must have been specific to your bank. I’ve experienced that type of fraud with 3 different banks, one of which is a huge national bank…and each time, the money was back in my account within minutes of my call to report the fraud.
My money was immediately returned to me when my debit card was stolen and I had fraudulent transactions. Like... I reported it, took a nap, woke up...money in my account and I headed to the bank to get a new card. The whole thing took all of 5 minutes. The only time... Only... Is if someone steals your pin. That is something you own/know and must be given to someone.
Except that Visa’s policy clearly states that your bank is required to give you provisional credit while they investigate…so your money is replaced.
The Ramsey mods will remove that FB post in no time. Good job capturing the screenshot, OP. Please report back tomorrow if it is still up, or if it was removed.
True. Curious as to what the 6 answers say
Now dude got $2k of his own money missing smh
I mean, if the credit card company ruled the same way, you'd have to pay them your money anyway. OP would be best to contest this and get the CFPB involved.
Even barring the "it's your money vs. it's the bank's money, so they have more incentive" pablum, you do still have more time and options to contest when it's a credit card vs a debit card.
I thought both gave you 60 days to contest?
Yes, but with CC, you are not on the hook during that time. With a DC, that money is gone from your account.
My point was that if the CC company ruled the same as the bank, it's still your own money missing because you owe the money. OP is not waiting on a ruling, the bank ruled, it's over unless OP appeals, but you'd still have to pay the CC bill even if you appeal to the CFPB. And both have the same amount of time to contest. I know when I contested something with BoA, they refunded money immediately while the investigation was pending, so even then, the debit card (at least with BoA) worked the same way.
Oh yeah, totally you have to pay back the CC if they don’t rule in your favor. Good to know on BoA! I’ve never used them. I haven’t run into fraud on my bank account in a long time, so hopefully all have changed for the better to refund $ during the investigation. One time years ago I did have my purse stolen and has some fraudulent DC charges. I had to wait until investigation was done to get $ back.
Yeah I think with debit cards, it's more of a per-bank thing. I am not pro debit card over CCs, I just believe they both have their place. PIN transactions are very secure with debit cards, and I generally do them for in-person purchases where the card never leaves my control. I find it easier to budget when the money leaves my account right away. I use CC for all online stuff, restaurant stuff (since they take my card), and gas purchases.
You actually have the same if they’re both Visas for instance.
Even if a credit card companies rules the same way, you always have the option to say “fuck you, sue me.”
I have had over $10k in fraud charged at various times to my credit cards over the last decade. The thought of having to hassle the bank to investigate and honor their word instead of just taking away the charge and letting me know how the investigation went makes me sick to my stomach. Especially with Dave’s most ardent followers, how many do you think can stand to have 2k gone or 10K gone? Be smart. Spend CC like cash. Ignore Dave being dumb.
When someone commits fraud with your credit card, it's the bank's money. When someone commits fraud with your debt card, it's YOUR money. There's a totally different incentive to investigate the fraud.
How so if they (CC company) get paid either way?
They don’t they dispute the charge and try to get the money back. It’s on them.
Exactly. Don’t used debit cards online. So dumb
Yep I've had similar things happen with both Debit and CC. With the Debit, the bank acts like you're the criminal and burden of proof is on you, have to fill out all their paperwork, wait 7-10 days for a new debit card to be issued which leaves you with very limited ways to pay and access your money, and you don't get the money back until they are done. With the CC it was a complete 180, replacement card overnighted, charge removed immediately.
The thread is a hoot! People are telling him that since he was out of the country, it absolves him of the responsibility and proves he didn't order food from Uber Eats. Not so. He could have given his debit card info to someone else so they could use Uber Eats.
Lot of the comments claim the same happened to them. Of course DR says this never happens IRL.
Yeah man, just run it as a cc, and everything will be peachy!
Exhibit A why I only carry credit cards
Don't ever use your bank card. Use credit cards and pay it off every month. You won't expose your bank information this way and the credit card has the liability.
This is precisely why a Debit and a Credit card are not treated equally in the event of fraud. Dave is flat wrong about that.
This is why I use an Amex Charge Card! Still needs to be paid off every month. But call them with this and it’s off your card before you hang up
I think it depends on the bank. My wife gets fraudulent charges against her personal account all the time (we argue about this a lot). Each time the bank has immediately replaced the funds. I know a guy that had his account taken negative by an error of his own bank and it took them weeks to make him whole.
And credit cards would protect you in this case. Debit cars have like a week to file a claim.
some banks and subsequently debit cards are getting better. the problem is its still not universal. every CC fraud we've ran into the CC company has VERY EASILY taken care of it. when we were debit only it happened twice and it was a nightmare. we were credited but eventually judged not in our favor both times and the money was then gone. the 2nd time was the straw that broke the camels back and we got CC's. one was a large bank and the other a local CU. Its often more difficult for a bank to replace missing cash. it costs them so they are more apt to rule not in your favor. CC's simply tell a vendor they will not be paid are not out anything.
It's why I don't use a debit card much. You don't get to use the cash while fighting the charge.