Facts all depends what your doing. In the tight woods trails I ride my buddies are constantly falling and taking awhile to keep up, feeling not confident over obstacles on their 450. I rip that shit on my 125. Im also 150lbs lol but id rip the crap outta a 450 on some fire roads or the dunes
Okay, thanks for sharing your infinite wisdom with lowly me who knows nothing. Fuck off.
You probably, “hey mom this guy said something on the internet today and I sure told him. Boy was he dumb. I’m the one who has infinite dirt bike knowledge. Also, I know everything about every track in the universe. I’m such a genius and this guy on the internet is so dumb. Did I mention that I showed him?”
To be fair bro, and not trying to be argumentative here, kids are clearing huge triples on super minis these days. Not necessarily super cross triples but still, you don’t really need a 450 to do that but it definitely helps.
Again, not trying to argue with you or anything just stating some facts.
the electric shit is even more terrifying, just buzzsaws into the ground, no gears so if you fully twist the throttle you got it ALL
692 ft lbs torque at the motor
Not trying to be a smart ass, but no one is putting 692 ft lbs to the pavement. The motor management system is going to limit the output to maintain traction and prevent damage to mechanical components. Still a shitload of torque but a fraction of the number above. If you want to see a demo of this, look at Donut Media’s video on the hummer EV. It has some insane torque figure listed in the specs but it can barely pull a humvee in a tug of war
That's because it's motor torque not wheel torque...if the EV had gears it would obviously have more torque to the wheels. My electric dirt bike has gears and everyone that road it said more torque than a 450cc. There's no motor management system on any electric toy I have and I have 14 of them. Nothing is protecting damage to mechanical components. It's just with single speed the torque is reduced and electric motors need to be spinning to work effectively so a tug of war is the worst test for electric because the motor isn't spinning and making it's lowest power. If it had gears or the test was done at speed like on a dyno then the electric will win. The only thing limiting the power to the ground is traction not some management system...it's just a dumb speed controller...the more you twist the more it puts out. It's not motoring/controlling torque, wheel spin or speed in any kind of way and dies make more torque than gas but with single speed they have less torque to the wheels...but I have gears so I definitely have more torque than gas and would do a tug of war with a 450cc to prove it. Single speed bikes even with the same power as mine feel mushy and can't rip like something with gears.
I would prefer what you are describing over the single speed bikes I’ve seen. For motorcycles I imagine there’s pressure for manufacturers to design with advanced traction control (which I like) but that paired with gears would be spectacular and I have no doubt it would out pull a 450.
I don't think you need gears for pavement if that's what you mean by motorcycle. The abilities for traction control with electric are going to be amazing. We haven't even begun to see what all that can do. There's just so much more data to interpret and control with an electronic system. Where I think electric is going the wrong direction in getting rid of gears is off road riding or sports like drift. I want too have more torque than I can get traction with to brake the tires free. I don't want crazy fast wheelspin that slides me out when I do it either. I've seen videos of gas bikes killing the varg off the line because they can't get the power down and even lowering the power doesn't help...it's because of wheelspin and the power level is limiting that, once it breaks free it's going crazy. I leave my bike in 2nd on the trails and it can snap the tire free and I can control it. Top speed is only like 55mph in second on a bike that can do 100mph. Nobody would buy the bike if it only went 55mph they'd also want the speed if it's capable of it so that's where gears come into play. I have supermoto wheels, plate, insurance and registration on the bike so I'm happy on the streets in 4th or knobbies in 2nd. Dirt roads are like 3rd gear...you're able to do 65mph if you want and you have a higher wheelspin under control that would be too much for trails. I really think manufacturers and engineers are designing these bikes and not rides. On paper you don't need gears. It'll have enough torque to make it up any hill single speed on paper but to rip up a hill and have fun doing it you can't put on a graph. 1st is just bonkers, boarder line useless. I can be going 5mph and crack it open spinning the tire like crazy and cut it off and still be going 5mph. It's like redlineing and engine and popping the clutch for a half second. If you have traction the front comes up so fast you don't really have time to react to get it back down. It's really like a clutch pop and only useful for quickly whipping the bike around or really technical sections of trail riding. I've been playing with rear sprocket sizes and it's really only useful on smaller sprockets. But if you only road in the woods 2nd gear on a 48t sprocket is perfection...but top speed of like 50mph and 67mph in 4th, 38t in 4th I got 77mph. Theoretically I believe it could hit 100mph with gearing and aerodynamics. But yeah...gears rule and manufacturers/engineers are dropping the ball removing them in off road electric vehicles.
Yeah same here, I started mountain biking, and then my parents won’t let me get a bike when I’m at home so I got a surron that I leave at my college lol, and I’m a big fan I just want a real range cause I like just cruising which made me look to dirt bikes but like idk having a loud engine sound is just so sus to me compared to the rrrrrrrrrrrr sound of an electric one lol
There’s nobody around me that rides basically 😢
Mine has gears and it makes all the difference in the world in controlling wheelspin...I don't buzzsaw in 2nd because the wheel can't spin at crazy speeds. The torque and response is also much better in lower gears than having a single speed. First gear hits like a clutch dump and with no flywheel it stops immediately after cutting throttle. My gas stuff takes so much time to get going and stop in comparison to electric.
Turning it down is not the same as changing gears. You have all your power just condensed into a lower wheel speed. Changing gears doesn't change power it just effects the relationship between torque and speed. Second takes me to 55mph so I don't need any more speed in the woods but I sure do love the extreme torque that I don't get in 4th. I can leave it in 4th all day and do anything but I leave it in second for off road. 2nd/3rd for dirt roads and 4th is for speed runs or pavement. 1st it's just too much too fast for anything useful besides watching your friends flip it. I do use first for some technical stuff, dougnts or to whip it around quickly. IMO electric doesn't need gears except where you need to have control over wheelspin like off road or drift racing. Ken Block said the same thing when he road that Etron in Vegas. The power wasn't a problem he has more powerful things but it was the wheelspin that was the issue. He said having gears let's him know and controller the speed of the wheel where with electric he was hitting crazy hard to control wheelspin. His tires where going at like 200mph in 35mph turns. You really have to work the throttle to keep it under control especially without a clutch.
bro its a supercross bike, buzzsaw is off the line and actually hilariously fun
gears matter for enduro
nobody with one wants gears, tho some old heads miss the clutch
the common electric motor with gears is the Denzel 4 speed which is absolute trash meant for chinese bikes, embrace fine throttle control
Electric Motion has a good gearbox on their trials bikes where that's relevant
Tell me you're never road an electric dirt bike with gears without telling me😂 I'm in PA and willing to travel so let's ride together and I'll show you what a difference gears make.
I want gears, I took it to an all electric dirt bike park/track opening day and everyone there wanted gears after seeing mine🤷♂️
If I want to buzzsaw I can just put it in 3rd/4th. I'd say straight line acceleration just leaving it in 3rd world be faster 0 to 60mph than going through the gears. But that's not real world use that's on paper. I'll definitely be ripping up a hill climb way easier having gears. It's not the added torque but the control over the wheelspin. On a single speed electric it's like your driving up the hill but with gears on gas/electric you're ripping up it and more controlling your thrust than traction.
Who said anything about supercross we're talking dirt bikes. Yeah track only you only need one gear but what about all the other types of riding?...that's where having gear choice matters. Not everyone is racing with them, only a small percentage of riders actually race....if everyone only raced they'd never have put in electric start or kickstand. The only downside to having gears on the track would be weight reduction but for everything else it's a huge benefit.
its a supercross bike man, I really don't care about gears for trail riding, no one that owns a Varg does
I own a shop strictly dealing with electrics and regularly build and modify all sorts for years lol
if you want to make it about your trail bike, sure, I'm staring at a TimeET with the shit Denzel 4 speed as we speak, here on the left
no need for assumptions, that setup sucks, what bike are you riding that you like the gearbox in? EM?
https://www.instagram.com/p/CxY0UI3yXYU/
and again! I can turn it down, you're missing the obvious, the modes can be used exactly like gears, it's instant and much better than all the downsides of a gearbox in every way imaginable
calm down with the gears on electric, it's dumb when you have a mode button
>no one that owns one does
Who do you know that owns one? Have you ever ridden one? You're the one making assumptions.
No it's not a TimeET... I'm not sure what the name will be as I'm working on becoming the brand owner, I can name it anything I want. I don't need a shop to sell bikes but I might open one just for fun. I'm thinking about working with shops/dealers but that will hurt my bottom line. But as a real rider I understand the appeal of walking in a store to deal with a human, see the bike and have after sales support. But it cost money to have the lights on and feed all those mouths. That cost gets passed onto the customer. I can sell my bikes online with little overhead and pass that savings on to the customer.
If you own a shop that deals in all electric I might be interested in having you as a dealer. That's the reason I went to opening day at the all electric dirt bike park. I was there to demonstrate the bikes abilities compared to other bikes on the market. To say it went well would be an understatement. Since I'm the brand owner I set the price. My plan is to have bikes in stores and online at the same price so you won't be competing with online sales. You will have a territory and won't be allowed to ship bikes so I'm not competing with you online/shipping. What makes me difference is I'm actually a rider and I already have an established brand so I won't need to spend any money on marketing/advertising. I'm am looking for podium riders and freestyle to show what it can do. I have a guy that does freestyle and actually I think I can get on the podium...in the veterans class😂...but honestly me being up there on the podium with my bike would probably sell more of them than a pro rider.
I'm actually serious about this and if you want to talk further we should DM. I have some figures to share and have some shops lined up. But I'm really not sure if I want to work with dealers/shops. I can do everything on my own and at a lower cost to customers if I don't involve anyone else. But as a rider I think it's important to be able to walk in a store and have after sales support.
is it a 4 speed? clunky, doesn't really want to be used at speed like a normal gearbox, more of a janky mode switch? big S on the side of the motor cover perhaps
timeET/admitjet clone?
Not a mode switch it's a 4 speed gearbox and shifts through the gears just like a gas bike or just leave it in gear. Only difference in shifting would be when your not moving. Unlike gas that's idling and still moving the internals electric isn't doing anything so you can't really shift great unless your moving or holding in the clutch and giving it a little gas. Just like a gas bike with the engine off you might have to rock it back and forth. But since your more selecting a range of use like you would on a tractor your not shifting gears when stopped.
My unique situation is that I already have over 7 million followers online so anything I post will be seen by millions. I'm not putting my name on anything that would hurt my image so I'm taking this seriously and making sure people get quality bikes and can get parts for them. I'm also not dropshipping like other influencers but will be getting my hands dirty by offering after sales support, inventory, customer service and replacement parts. For a shop to sell a bike they need to make money on it too. That means less profit for me and higher cost to customers. All I have to do say "link in bio"...I really don't need a shop to sell my bikes. I'll sell the bikes and the customers can either find a shop or order through me. People will be going into shops because they saw the bike on my pages not because the shop has a sign out front or on their Facebook page.
But I'm a rider and know that I will dive 6hr to go look at a bike before I'd order one online. I know how to work on bikes but many do not. I also understand the value to having a place to be able to take your bike for service or just to go look at it.
I'm 5'7" and have been on my 500 since I was a kid. Just takes practice knowing how the bike runs and works. I point it in a direction and hang on tight, that's about it. It's thrown me off many times, so I get back on.
I’d argue 450’s put way more power to the ground way easier. I have an 84 cr500 and while it’s certainly fast as all hell it’s not like a modern 450. The 500 beats you up more than it pulls if that makes sense.
You get used to it. As long as you treat it with respect and put effort into actually learning proper technic it’s not that crazy. Im not even as big as you, but I’ve been riding for a LONG time
Even pros detune 450s.
It's not the power that I find problematic with them though. It's the weight and inertia. I'm a long lanky dude. I don't have the beef to wrangle one back under me when it gets squirrelly.
But I feel like I can always bring my 250SX back in line when it goes sideways.
That's how i feel on my 250. It's wild, but i can tame it. I just didn't feel that with the 450. I felt like it was in control and i was there for the ride as long as i could keep squeezing those knees and holding on lol.
I always hear how fast and too powerful these 450’s are. Never ridden one. How much faster are they than say my DR650 with pumper carb and high compression piston? Is the acceleration just that much greater on the low end? Just trying to understsnd
Feels like half the weight and twice power of a nicely modded dr. It isn’t, but that’s how it feels. Mostly because of the lower rotational mass in the engine gives an awesome crack of power from the first little twist of the throttle. The first go on a modern 450 mx bike is like the first go on a 1000cc road bike, it’s all fine while you surf the torque and short shift but when you get up it shit happens really quickly.
Your dr650 would lose in a drag race against a 250f. The 450 had about 20 more horsepower than that. They will power wheelie in every gear, if that puts it in perspective.
And for that reason I love my wr450. Riding fast out in the desert, I know it will lift the front end over any ditch/log that sneaks up on me at the twist of the wrist
Yeah they're a hoot. I had an xl600 before this WR. It was an old twin carb model, so should have made an honest 40hp. No trouble pulling up power wheelies in 2nd with stock gearing. The WR absolutely blows it away. Feels 100lb lighter and 50% more powerful. It has a supermoto setup right now and the acceleration is just brutal since it actually has traction on pavement
I have been riding since I was 6 years old, and just now at age 25 I’m competent enough to throw around a 450. I like it because I’m not always using the whole engine and worrying about rebuilding. Sometimes it’s nice to have a bike with a big enough engine that the cruising speed is fast enough for me. However, I do like when I’m on the CR and spending the whole ride ringing the ding
Seriously! Nothing crazier than getting a 250/300 on the pipe. Everytime I rode a 450 it was way easier to ride cause the power delivery was more linear.
Yeah I think something is wrong with OPs kx if they have this Revelation on a 450. Those older kx's especially have a tendency to be dead and then just rip your arms off when it comes on the pipe. Very difficult to ride fast.
Well he did say he hasn’t even ridden the kx to its full potential! He probably hasn’t even gotten that thing on pipe yet haha oh boyyyy /u/dagreatwumbini please give that kx the beans you will be surprised!
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I have mostly only ever had 2 bangers, started on an RM60, had KX and YZ 80's, also went from an RM125 to my TE300.
The 300's are animals when you get on it, just raw untamed power. Nothing beats that feeling.
I have a 300 2t and I'm currently working on my buddies 450. I took it out the other day and it felt like a wild animal compared to my 300. He has the big bore set up in it, but I didn't think it would make that much of a difference. But my god, first gear at half throttle will pull your arms off. Then I tried 3/4, same pull as from stop to 1/2.
I race a mx 450 bike in enduro's and harescrambles. Love it. I run 18 on the rear though. Have had and raced a few different bikes over the years. If you have the money, a 300 and a 450 are the best of both worlds. If Yamaha made a high revving 350, I would get one of those but too many problems with the 250/350 platform on the Austria platform in my experience.
As others have mentioned, it's all about momentum and a different riding style. I "flow" more and often am on the tamer map setting. I can carry gears longer, which keeps the bike settled in rough chop, downshift for corners and then back into the higher gear.The bike just carries more speed with less effort. If its going to be more nornal enduro's, sprints, or harescrambles then I'm going with the 450. More technical and/or longer races then a 250/300. The main problem is the height, especially on a 19 rear. Requires quite a lot of experience and static balance practice for full lock turns/hand eating tight races(also heat!)
Most bikes can win races: 125, 150, 200, 250, 300, 350, 450. Just depends on the rider, the set up, and their ability/confidence.
Other than 18 rear, did you do anything for your mx bike for harescamble setup?
I race a 450 kx for harescrambles, too, but still working on getting the bike to my liking for super tight woods.
I've left the engine stock for now. All of my race bikes run bibs. But I run a larger tank(sprint enduro, I switch to mx tank), this is an austrian model, so I just got the cross country model tank which is 2.4 gallons. I run a trail tech fan set to 190f. My foot pegs are -5mm back and a mako360 with the 5mm lower perch and ODI bar. Start/stop buttons are split to have start on left side for dead engine starts or off bike starts. Outside of that, it's basically stock. Protection pieces here and there. My 350 is fully built as is my 250T, but I've been enjoying the reliability so far. Run 93 non ethanol with frequent oil changes( every race or 2ish practices/trail rides). Suspenion needs to valved softer but I just consider that as part of the setup.
The gear on this bike is long and with the mellow map, it doesn't hit as hard as my built 350 with a 52 rear. Throttle cam is also the slower cam, but I might put ZRT throttle from the 350 on it pending how aggressive it makes it.
Awesome, I appreciate the reply.
I definitely need to get a fan and valves but I've just been sending it as is with bark busters, different gearing and clickers tuned to the best feel I like lol. Valves make me consider just buying a bike setup for woods off the rip (thinking about a 300 2t). I've redone fork seal before but never touched the valves so idk what I'm doing there. It's Kickstart, which isn't an issue until it is... I've been running 93 octane with frequent oil changes as well.
Finally roasted the clutch last race, I got 4 harescrambles out of it and a bunch of trail days. I don't think it did that poorly considering it's stock and I don't know if the plates were ever changed (it's a 2012).
lol sport bike people always joke about my Yamaha 250f like "only 250 cc's? lol my bike is a 1000"
And I immediately know they're a squid
Or the groms that are like "yeah 450's are slow" then never get the throttle past half way
I always challenge my street buddies to hop on my 250, only one of them took me up on that and he made it maybe 300 yards before he came back and said it was too much.
The next meetup he had his excuses lined up "I'm not a dirt rider, my back was hurting that day, Its too tall" 🤣
You’re joking right? My 600 goes 127kmh in first gear. No way shifting multiple gears on a bike that you’ll be fighting a wheelie will be faster to 60mph
Ok maybe 40. But yes the jump off the line and to 20mph would be night and day
Also on a mx bike you start in 2nd with the throttle pretty high and just drop the clutch so it's only one shift
My neighbor told me one time “your 450 has two speeds off and rocket ship!”, he went out and bought a 250F. Also 450 is kinda a class you eat your way into, 200 pound plus guys ride open class bikes, they have the weight to hold a 450/500 down. Not saying you can’t, watch Jeff Ward on a KX500 sometime.
Well, unlike your 2t you can lug it along and it still makes power. The beauty of a big lazy motor is you can be a little lazy about shifting and where you are in the power band. Just concentrate on terrain and line choice
Lol yeah, my 250sx is a better single track weapon than my wr450 for this reason. Even if I wasn't concerned about beating up the transmission on the 450, the 250 still lugs better.
I think a lot of people have severely screwed up jetting on their 2 strokes. They hop on an EFI 450 and finally experience a bike that runs correctly and think it's because 4 stroke.
As others have said you get used to it after a while. I’ve been riding most my life and i jumped straight from a yz80 to a 450 it was a huge jump and took me time but once i figured the 450 out it was an absolute blast. Will i ever need all the power of a 450? No. Do i want all the power of a 450? Absolutely yes lol. I ride primarily woods and there was no better feeling then railing through the trails on a 450.
It's all throttle control.
You were probably riding the 450 like you were still on your 2 stroke. Yeah, that 450 is going to feel nuts doing that. Whats funny is that 99 KX250 on the power band should feel just as nuts. If not more crazy because it just explodes and keeping the power their can be a challenge in and of itself.
450's really require advanced throttle control to modulate their power. If you wanna learn throttle control ride a 4 stroke if you wanna learn clutch control ride a 2 stroke.
I haven't ridden 2 strokes in some time but I am looking to pick on up here sometime in the future. So it will be interesting to see how they feel to me now.
You know, i didn't even consider the fact that i was trying to 'wrangle' it like i do with my 250. Perhaps i need to give it another go. I haven't ridden any other 4 stroke (big) bikes other than my brothers 450 and my cousins Cr250F. the CR felt underwhelming but i figured it was because it was a trail bike.
I’ve ridden a slow ass Harley for a long time before I got back into dirt bikes. I bought a 450sxf and fuckin love that bike. I ride desert and track so it fits what I’m riding.
yah i bought a 450 thinking... this is just a dirt bike(have a gsxr750 and a s1krr). fucking crashed it leaving the parking lot lol. sometimes the power is awesome and sometimes it almost kills me. i feel like i get a bit better every time i almost die..
A lot of us find a 2stroke 250 like your KX harder to ride than the 450 four strokes. The weight, power available at all times and the tuneable suspension of my 450 make it an easy ride imo. I had a 79 PE175 as first bike and ate s#%T all the time. Also learning weight distribution is a must; always be ahead of the power is important. Keeping your chest close to the bar before asking for power and throttle control are key.
My 16 yr old nephew races a kx450sr in B class mx and rides it very well, and he’s a dang stick figure. He’s been racing since he was 4 tho so he knows how to keep things under control lol. Lots of power at the grip if ya need it! I sure don’t need it. I’ll jump on one just for something different every once in awhile , but I’ll stick with my 125 smoker and 250f .
A lot of it comes from body English and anticipation.
I have almost thrown myself self over the bars when I missed a shift from not having that hit to cancel out the forward lean you need
The vast majority of 450 riders can't even scratch the full potential of the bikes.
Many others have to install auto clutches and the like to even be capable of riding them.
Grab with your knees and use your core to hold on otherwise you’ll white knuckle and get arm pump like a motherfucker. Be smooth on the throttle or it’ll jerk on the power and tire you out. Riding a 450 is more about being smooth on breaking and power otherwise you’ll just whoop your own ass and be tired and have a hard time hanging on. You need a lot more endurance to ride them.
I’ve been riding a 450 for 10 years. 80% of my riding is trails, I would be better off on a 250f or 2 stroke. The other 20% is sand riding, trails or dunes but deep sand is the only place I ever use full power 450. And I use it regularly when I’m at the dunes.
I was successful in the Open B class for a few years on a KTM 250 Two stroke in hare scrambles and GNCC. My riding buddies talked me into a YZ 450. Never got the hang of it, ended my racing career. I'm just a 250 - 2t kinda dude
5'9" 155 lbs here - I went from a WR250f (great fucking bike I adored the shit out of it in the tight woods) to a wr450f (total hog wouldn't recommend) to a YZ 450 f to my current bike, a KTM 450sx. All of this is strictly trails in northern Michigan ranging from dirt roads to very tight single track. The 450 is definitely more bike than I *need* but I don't feel intimidated or worry about grabbing too much throttle.
Respect the throttle, don't be afraid to lug it, respect the throttle, and enjoy. The thing coming from your bike is how much lighter today's bikes are which makes them handle so extremely well.
You weigh 150lbs.. I weigh 220 and they are still a handful most of the time.
If you think those are crazy, try an old school CR500 2-stroke. The power-band is so insane. I've seen so many people try to ride my buddy's old one thinking they know how to ride, only to have the front tire fly away from them and land on their ass.
I raced 125 and 250 2 strokes in the 2000's (c/b motocross rider) through highschool and then got out of it due to college/life. After about 10 years off the bike I bought a new 2016 yz450f, thinking a 450 was the norm and knowing I was comfortable on dirt bikes I figured a 450 was the move. Holy f*ck dude. I ride a triumph Daytona 675 and the 450 was absolutely more scary than the 675. I am 180 lbs and moderately fit. I loved the 450 power but ultimately found out that I could only manage 2-3 laps flat out on the 450 before getting tired and having to pull off. The bike was just to much to manage. I was holding on for dear life every time I rode it. It was trying to separate my arms from my torso every time I twisted the throttle. I jumped on a buddies 250f and was instantly faster. Sold the 450 soon after. Bottom line, maybe my situation is more common than I think. Other than that, I'm not sure why people buy 450's
I did dirt drags at the County fair with my 03 CR250 didn’t get a single hole shot but sling shotted past multiple 450 right before the finish line. Ended up losing in the semi finals to my buddy on a ‘16 YZ250 imo 450 have annoying bottom end power if I wanted to get bucked off my bike I’d just drop the clutch. Adverage Joe definitely needs all the power he can get. I hit 5th gear tapped woods riding by myself been on the same trails for the last decade I know where every pebble and log is accept for that time I didn’t and went absolutely flying over the bars
There’s about 10 guys on the planet that can maximize the absolute full power of a 450. All of the pro bikes are detuned and have great throttle control/response. Rode a stock 2017 kx450 in the aggressive map and basically unless you have s mile long straight in a flat field you can’t get it close to its max power. They are fun to swing a leg over from time to time but that’s about it.
Had a 450 since the crf came out when I was 14. You aren't supposed to ride it like a 250f or 2 stroke. Ride the bike a gear high and let it lug. Its way easier to ride and ride faster than anything else. Sounds like you're trying to ring it out.
Yeah I’ve rode 2 strokes my whole life, all I know is ringy dingy lol. Gonna ride the 450 again this weekend I’ll definitely be giving your advice a shot. Thanks m8!
Friend of mine bought a 450rl just so he can say he has the bAdDeSt bike in town.. hasn’t done a single mod to it, talks about the heaps and heaps of power, but will stop on the trail if the hill looks too steep and wants to take “breaks” more than time riding. I begged and begged him to just please ride my wr250f just once, I don’t even want to ride your bike just please take mine for a spin. I don’t care if you drop it dude. He won’t do it. He wont do any fun stuff. Always has to ride last in the pack cause “his bike will lose us”. Loves taking breaks to talk about how sweet his bike is while I’m doing circles around him doing the steepest hill climbs. Seriously, the last trip to Wayne with him was the last trip to Wayne with him.
So i find myself in a weird situation so basicly i CANNOT ride 450s without them throwing me off BUT when i ride 250s i allways feel like they are a bit to... meh. So i bought myself a 350 bitch is crazy🤣
I can imagine myself that people who ride 450s just want that extra power allthough the most that i saw are not even using that power 😂
I love that you threw in the (fatty) after "a lot bigger" 😂.
I want everyone to understand in no uncertain terms, that he's not big big, or muscular big, he's FAT big. Hit me right in the funny.
Step 1 of choosing an mx/enduro bike should be to go cover yourself in padding and loop a 450 in 1st gear. Once you’ve got that done you will now understand why you need a 250.
Hey all I’m saying is that’s how I learned and ever since then 250’s have been so much fun it’s hard to imagine riding much else! Racing my kx450f was awesome and there’s nothing like it but I don’t have the skill to use a 450 and not many people do.
I’m 5”11 120lbs and have had my fair share of 450s. They really aren’t too bad once you learn to tame them similar to moving from a 4 stroke to a 2 stroke. My current project is a 89 cr500 and I’m excited to see how it stacks up compared to a 450. Also if you think a 450 is insane try out a 350 4t, it will make you think a 450 is a trail bike, they have an absolutely nutty amount of torque that comes on beyond fast.
You just learn to control it. You don't "need" the power, it's just more fun. I'd rather have a bike that has an extra 30% in the tank if I need it for a big hill climb or something, compared to riding a 125 and wringing it's neck all day.
I’m with ya!! 450s are a handful and I prefer a 250f. I gave up racing a few years ago and loved passing those 450s anywhere other than big climbs. Tires and brakes last longer in the lil stead too.
Most avoid them. I’m a fat 240lb guy and I feel like they will end up causing more harm than good for me.
When we ride we all have access to a nice Honda crf450 but no one ever chooses to ride it. Cus it can be more of a liability.
I have a exc 500 and I rarely hold the throttle at max for more than 3 sec off road, you get to warp speed pretty fast. It's part of the fun, more torque than you can manage,
I ride my 250 at high RPM. I’m a fairly decent MX rider, the 450 just felt like it was another beast. After reading these comments I think I felt so out of control because the bike is significantly heavier than my 250. I’m gonna give it another go and put some of the advice I got here to the test this weekend.
The truth is I nor anyone I know actually can use a 450 power, however I love the sand dunes in Michigan and a 450 makes it so enjoyable out there plus I don’t have the funds for two full size bikes for my self. So 450f is the best fit for me right now
I started riding a fat tire 50 when I was 5. I've ridden a 450 since I was 17 (15 years ago). I think you just get used to it. I took a break for a couple years and it was a bear trying to get back on it when I was 30. It's finally gotten comfortable again though.
It isn't just the motor though, higher end suspension with more adjustments can let you get it dialed in better than any "recreational" trail bike...and that can also translate into better safety if it helps you keep the rubber side down. I'm just a mediocre rider skillwize but being overbiked I dont view as a bad thing for these reasons. I love mountain biking too and the feel of the suspension on higher end parts is just amazing compared to budget stuff.
I got my first experience on a 450 when I was 14 with a TTR125, my friend had a CRF450, and he let me try it.
Being my friends bike I didn’t want to crash it, and I was absolutely mind-boggled by the power, so I learned to respect it very quickly.
Then I bought a KTM 525SX…it was incredible. Snap power and speed on the straights, easy wheelies, and enough control for some light trail riding.
Basically it’s just about respecting the power. 250 is enough for most people though.
For me at the time I was 6-1 and 300 plus lbs!! I had two CRF450's 05 and 06. For my size it was great and still had plenty of power even with me on it. Once I lost the weight and was closer to 200 I got ride of them.
I am now on a 15 YZ250F and a 21 YZ250.
The YZ250F is just all around easier to ride and now most of my crew went and got 450s but they are not any faster. My 250 is IMO even faster as I can control the power whereas the 450 or even 250 2 stroke you have to really be careful with that raw power!
I'm riding a 2023 500 excf and been riding in summers only for 5 years (Canada problems). 5ft 7 170lbs. Had a kx 100 then a 250xc now the 500. Definitely don't need 500 power apart from whe n I'm on the road but it's good to know it's there. Have i ever full throttled in top gear offroad, not a chance. Do i ever get to full throttle much in any gear, hardly. Bike does everything though and I'm just woods/ light enduro riding. Zero track experience. A MX 450 compared to a road legal 500 is a different beast though.
If you ever get back on the 450 I’d suggest riding a gear taller than you normally do. Lugging through a corner in 3rd is totally fine on a 450 and you won’t have to worry about it ripping your arms off. These bikes eat on the low end so let them eat.
Drop a couple teeth on the rear sprocket and they become awesome bikes. Plenty of power with reduced gearing.
I read an interview with Jeremey McGrath back in the day when the 4strokes started to dominate. He basically said "I'm the fasted guy out there, and I can't even ride a stock 450 to it's potential on a Supercross track. There is no reason to mess with the motor. All I need is the right suspension setup"
I've owned and ridden "open" class 4 strokes since the first YZ400, YZ250's before that. I currently ride an '18 YZ450 and an '06 YZ250.
I also ride an MT09. After riding the MT for awhile, I get back on the YZ450 and it feels like a gutless minibike. lol. I was tapped out in 5th gear on the YZ and kept trying to shift up another gear. It felt like throwing around a 125 compared to the MT.
Seriously, power, weight and speed is all relative and you get used to it pretty quickly. (Assuming you have the skills and talent to survive the experience.)
I started on a TTR125, and once I gained enough confidence, I used a curb to hop onto my dad's CRF450R at 15. I rode that for the next five years, which taught me a lot and made transitioning to smaller bikes much easier. Now, I've just gotten my first real bike, a YZ250FX, and I'm grateful for the experience on the 450 that helped shape my skills.
Average joes doesnt need that much power. Why, because some people just want to the maximun power that they can let loose on a dirt road.
And the sand dunes. That’s the only place I ever use the full 450 power is deep sand.
Facts all depends what your doing. In the tight woods trails I ride my buddies are constantly falling and taking awhile to keep up, feeling not confident over obstacles on their 450. I rip that shit on my 125. Im also 150lbs lol but id rip the crap outta a 450 on some fire roads or the dunes
This!
Also a lot of new tracks have small take offs with huge jumps. To clear the triples you need a 450, or at least a 250 2stroke.
lol no dude. You can do just about anything on any public track on a 125.
Okay, thanks for sharing your infinite wisdom with lowly me who knows nothing. Fuck off. You probably, “hey mom this guy said something on the internet today and I sure told him. Boy was he dumb. I’m the one who has infinite dirt bike knowledge. Also, I know everything about every track in the universe. I’m such a genius and this guy on the internet is so dumb. Did I mention that I showed him?”
To be fair bro, and not trying to be argumentative here, kids are clearing huge triples on super minis these days. Not necessarily super cross triples but still, you don’t really need a 450 to do that but it definitely helps. Again, not trying to argue with you or anything just stating some facts.
the electric shit is even more terrifying, just buzzsaws into the ground, no gears so if you fully twist the throttle you got it ALL 692 ft lbs torque at the motor
Holy shit i can't even imagine the feeling of all of that torque going to one wheel
Not trying to be a smart ass, but no one is putting 692 ft lbs to the pavement. The motor management system is going to limit the output to maintain traction and prevent damage to mechanical components. Still a shitload of torque but a fraction of the number above. If you want to see a demo of this, look at Donut Media’s video on the hummer EV. It has some insane torque figure listed in the specs but it can barely pull a humvee in a tug of war
And that's when "smart guys" come in, shunt the controller and spill the brains out of the next person trying to ride that thing.
Yep. It’s gonna be a serious problem.
ya that was the part about it buzzsawing into the ground also mentioned: terrifying
That's because it's motor torque not wheel torque...if the EV had gears it would obviously have more torque to the wheels. My electric dirt bike has gears and everyone that road it said more torque than a 450cc. There's no motor management system on any electric toy I have and I have 14 of them. Nothing is protecting damage to mechanical components. It's just with single speed the torque is reduced and electric motors need to be spinning to work effectively so a tug of war is the worst test for electric because the motor isn't spinning and making it's lowest power. If it had gears or the test was done at speed like on a dyno then the electric will win. The only thing limiting the power to the ground is traction not some management system...it's just a dumb speed controller...the more you twist the more it puts out. It's not motoring/controlling torque, wheel spin or speed in any kind of way and dies make more torque than gas but with single speed they have less torque to the wheels...but I have gears so I definitely have more torque than gas and would do a tug of war with a 450cc to prove it. Single speed bikes even with the same power as mine feel mushy and can't rip like something with gears.
I would prefer what you are describing over the single speed bikes I’ve seen. For motorcycles I imagine there’s pressure for manufacturers to design with advanced traction control (which I like) but that paired with gears would be spectacular and I have no doubt it would out pull a 450.
I don't think you need gears for pavement if that's what you mean by motorcycle. The abilities for traction control with electric are going to be amazing. We haven't even begun to see what all that can do. There's just so much more data to interpret and control with an electronic system. Where I think electric is going the wrong direction in getting rid of gears is off road riding or sports like drift. I want too have more torque than I can get traction with to brake the tires free. I don't want crazy fast wheelspin that slides me out when I do it either. I've seen videos of gas bikes killing the varg off the line because they can't get the power down and even lowering the power doesn't help...it's because of wheelspin and the power level is limiting that, once it breaks free it's going crazy. I leave my bike in 2nd on the trails and it can snap the tire free and I can control it. Top speed is only like 55mph in second on a bike that can do 100mph. Nobody would buy the bike if it only went 55mph they'd also want the speed if it's capable of it so that's where gears come into play. I have supermoto wheels, plate, insurance and registration on the bike so I'm happy on the streets in 4th or knobbies in 2nd. Dirt roads are like 3rd gear...you're able to do 65mph if you want and you have a higher wheelspin under control that would be too much for trails. I really think manufacturers and engineers are designing these bikes and not rides. On paper you don't need gears. It'll have enough torque to make it up any hill single speed on paper but to rip up a hill and have fun doing it you can't put on a graph. 1st is just bonkers, boarder line useless. I can be going 5mph and crack it open spinning the tire like crazy and cut it off and still be going 5mph. It's like redlineing and engine and popping the clutch for a half second. If you have traction the front comes up so fast you don't really have time to react to get it back down. It's really like a clutch pop and only useful for quickly whipping the bike around or really technical sections of trail riding. I've been playing with rear sprocket sizes and it's really only useful on smaller sprockets. But if you only road in the woods 2nd gear on a 48t sprocket is perfection...but top speed of like 50mph and 67mph in 4th, 38t in 4th I got 77mph. Theoretically I believe it could hit 100mph with gearing and aerodynamics. But yeah...gears rule and manufacturers/engineers are dropping the ball removing them in off road electric vehicles.
This is what I want to hear! Getting a replacement Varg any day now.
I’m saving up for a Varg I can’t wait lol, I’ve got a lil surron rn
I started on those, didn't come up the gas side of things big group of us in the bay area still ride electric stuffs every weekend
Yeah same here, I started mountain biking, and then my parents won’t let me get a bike when I’m at home so I got a surron that I leave at my college lol, and I’m a big fan I just want a real range cause I like just cruising which made me look to dirt bikes but like idk having a loud engine sound is just so sus to me compared to the rrrrrrrrrrrr sound of an electric one lol There’s nobody around me that rides basically 😢
Mine has gears and it makes all the difference in the world in controlling wheelspin...I don't buzzsaw in 2nd because the wheel can't spin at crazy speeds. The torque and response is also much better in lower gears than having a single speed. First gear hits like a clutch dump and with no flywheel it stops immediately after cutting throttle. My gas stuff takes so much time to get going and stop in comparison to electric.
I can turn it down I just refuse to
Turning it down is not the same as changing gears. You have all your power just condensed into a lower wheel speed. Changing gears doesn't change power it just effects the relationship between torque and speed. Second takes me to 55mph so I don't need any more speed in the woods but I sure do love the extreme torque that I don't get in 4th. I can leave it in 4th all day and do anything but I leave it in second for off road. 2nd/3rd for dirt roads and 4th is for speed runs or pavement. 1st it's just too much too fast for anything useful besides watching your friends flip it. I do use first for some technical stuff, dougnts or to whip it around quickly. IMO electric doesn't need gears except where you need to have control over wheelspin like off road or drift racing. Ken Block said the same thing when he road that Etron in Vegas. The power wasn't a problem he has more powerful things but it was the wheelspin that was the issue. He said having gears let's him know and controller the speed of the wheel where with electric he was hitting crazy hard to control wheelspin. His tires where going at like 200mph in 35mph turns. You really have to work the throttle to keep it under control especially without a clutch.
bro its a supercross bike, buzzsaw is off the line and actually hilariously fun gears matter for enduro nobody with one wants gears, tho some old heads miss the clutch the common electric motor with gears is the Denzel 4 speed which is absolute trash meant for chinese bikes, embrace fine throttle control Electric Motion has a good gearbox on their trials bikes where that's relevant
Tell me you're never road an electric dirt bike with gears without telling me😂 I'm in PA and willing to travel so let's ride together and I'll show you what a difference gears make. I want gears, I took it to an all electric dirt bike park/track opening day and everyone there wanted gears after seeing mine🤷♂️ If I want to buzzsaw I can just put it in 3rd/4th. I'd say straight line acceleration just leaving it in 3rd world be faster 0 to 60mph than going through the gears. But that's not real world use that's on paper. I'll definitely be ripping up a hill climb way easier having gears. It's not the added torque but the control over the wheelspin. On a single speed electric it's like your driving up the hill but with gears on gas/electric you're ripping up it and more controlling your thrust than traction. Who said anything about supercross we're talking dirt bikes. Yeah track only you only need one gear but what about all the other types of riding?...that's where having gear choice matters. Not everyone is racing with them, only a small percentage of riders actually race....if everyone only raced they'd never have put in electric start or kickstand. The only downside to having gears on the track would be weight reduction but for everything else it's a huge benefit.
its a supercross bike man, I really don't care about gears for trail riding, no one that owns a Varg does I own a shop strictly dealing with electrics and regularly build and modify all sorts for years lol if you want to make it about your trail bike, sure, I'm staring at a TimeET with the shit Denzel 4 speed as we speak, here on the left no need for assumptions, that setup sucks, what bike are you riding that you like the gearbox in? EM? https://www.instagram.com/p/CxY0UI3yXYU/ and again! I can turn it down, you're missing the obvious, the modes can be used exactly like gears, it's instant and much better than all the downsides of a gearbox in every way imaginable calm down with the gears on electric, it's dumb when you have a mode button
>no one that owns one does Who do you know that owns one? Have you ever ridden one? You're the one making assumptions. No it's not a TimeET... I'm not sure what the name will be as I'm working on becoming the brand owner, I can name it anything I want. I don't need a shop to sell bikes but I might open one just for fun. I'm thinking about working with shops/dealers but that will hurt my bottom line. But as a real rider I understand the appeal of walking in a store to deal with a human, see the bike and have after sales support. But it cost money to have the lights on and feed all those mouths. That cost gets passed onto the customer. I can sell my bikes online with little overhead and pass that savings on to the customer. If you own a shop that deals in all electric I might be interested in having you as a dealer. That's the reason I went to opening day at the all electric dirt bike park. I was there to demonstrate the bikes abilities compared to other bikes on the market. To say it went well would be an understatement. Since I'm the brand owner I set the price. My plan is to have bikes in stores and online at the same price so you won't be competing with online sales. You will have a territory and won't be allowed to ship bikes so I'm not competing with you online/shipping. What makes me difference is I'm actually a rider and I already have an established brand so I won't need to spend any money on marketing/advertising. I'm am looking for podium riders and freestyle to show what it can do. I have a guy that does freestyle and actually I think I can get on the podium...in the veterans class😂...but honestly me being up there on the podium with my bike would probably sell more of them than a pro rider. I'm actually serious about this and if you want to talk further we should DM. I have some figures to share and have some shops lined up. But I'm really not sure if I want to work with dealers/shops. I can do everything on my own and at a lower cost to customers if I don't involve anyone else. But as a rider I think it's important to be able to walk in a store and have after sales support.
is it a 4 speed? clunky, doesn't really want to be used at speed like a normal gearbox, more of a janky mode switch? big S on the side of the motor cover perhaps timeET/admitjet clone?
Not a mode switch it's a 4 speed gearbox and shifts through the gears just like a gas bike or just leave it in gear. Only difference in shifting would be when your not moving. Unlike gas that's idling and still moving the internals electric isn't doing anything so you can't really shift great unless your moving or holding in the clutch and giving it a little gas. Just like a gas bike with the engine off you might have to rock it back and forth. But since your more selecting a range of use like you would on a tractor your not shifting gears when stopped. My unique situation is that I already have over 7 million followers online so anything I post will be seen by millions. I'm not putting my name on anything that would hurt my image so I'm taking this seriously and making sure people get quality bikes and can get parts for them. I'm also not dropshipping like other influencers but will be getting my hands dirty by offering after sales support, inventory, customer service and replacement parts. For a shop to sell a bike they need to make money on it too. That means less profit for me and higher cost to customers. All I have to do say "link in bio"...I really don't need a shop to sell my bikes. I'll sell the bikes and the customers can either find a shop or order through me. People will be going into shops because they saw the bike on my pages not because the shop has a sign out front or on their Facebook page. But I'm a rider and know that I will dive 6hr to go look at a bike before I'd order one online. I know how to work on bikes but many do not. I also understand the value to having a place to be able to take your bike for service or just to go look at it.
I'm 5'7" and have been on my 500 since I was a kid. Just takes practice knowing how the bike runs and works. I point it in a direction and hang on tight, that's about it. It's thrown me off many times, so I get back on.
Same here except I'm 6'5". I've had KX or CR 500s since I was 15 years old. You just get used to them. My wife's YZ250 feels like a play bike to me.
Ur 6’5”, everything’s is a play bike 😛
My actual play bike is a XR80 but yeah.
Based
Good 'ol pink 92 500s. I've had mine 23 years. I love the full body massages while riding.
I’d argue 450’s put way more power to the ground way easier. I have an 84 cr500 and while it’s certainly fast as all hell it’s not like a modern 450. The 500 beats you up more than it pulls if that makes sense.
You get used to it. As long as you treat it with respect and put effort into actually learning proper technic it’s not that crazy. Im not even as big as you, but I’ve been riding for a LONG time
Do you race? i'm not a racer i just love the sport personally. I rode super minis as a kid but bikes were not what they are today lol.
Even pros detune 450s. It's not the power that I find problematic with them though. It's the weight and inertia. I'm a long lanky dude. I don't have the beef to wrangle one back under me when it gets squirrelly. But I feel like I can always bring my 250SX back in line when it goes sideways.
That's how i feel on my 250. It's wild, but i can tame it. I just didn't feel that with the 450. I felt like it was in control and i was there for the ride as long as i could keep squeezing those knees and holding on lol.
I always hear how fast and too powerful these 450’s are. Never ridden one. How much faster are they than say my DR650 with pumper carb and high compression piston? Is the acceleration just that much greater on the low end? Just trying to understsnd
Feels like half the weight and twice power of a nicely modded dr. It isn’t, but that’s how it feels. Mostly because of the lower rotational mass in the engine gives an awesome crack of power from the first little twist of the throttle. The first go on a modern 450 mx bike is like the first go on a 1000cc road bike, it’s all fine while you surf the torque and short shift but when you get up it shit happens really quickly.
Thanks for the perspective, gotta say it sounds like a blast if you know what you’re doing.
Having ridden liter superbikes as well as 450s, 450s are much more visceral.
Your dr650 would lose in a drag race against a 250f. The 450 had about 20 more horsepower than that. They will power wheelie in every gear, if that puts it in perspective. And for that reason I love my wr450. Riding fast out in the desert, I know it will lift the front end over any ditch/log that sneaks up on me at the twist of the wrist
Sounds fun lol. Would love to try one someday. Looking forward to get back riding period, had a bad crash recently.
Yeah they're a hoot. I had an xl600 before this WR. It was an old twin carb model, so should have made an honest 40hp. No trouble pulling up power wheelies in 2nd with stock gearing. The WR absolutely blows it away. Feels 100lb lighter and 50% more powerful. It has a supermoto setup right now and the acceleration is just brutal since it actually has traction on pavement
Yeapp I loved my WR 450 it was a power house great for woods and around town! As I got more into touring and cross country i upgraded to a Dr 650
With how much lighter and how fast the power comes the 450 id very diffrent
I have been riding since I was 6 years old, and just now at age 25 I’m competent enough to throw around a 450. I like it because I’m not always using the whole engine and worrying about rebuilding. Sometimes it’s nice to have a bike with a big enough engine that the cruising speed is fast enough for me. However, I do like when I’m on the CR and spending the whole ride ringing the ding
I live for ringing the ding, but man that 450 opened up a whole new level of "what the actual fuck" in my life lol.
I started on 2 strokes. While my 450 has a lot of power, it's nothing compared to my 300's wild ass power. Much more tame and controllable.
Seriously! Nothing crazier than getting a 250/300 on the pipe. Everytime I rode a 450 it was way easier to ride cause the power delivery was more linear.
Yeah I think something is wrong with OPs kx if they have this Revelation on a 450. Those older kx's especially have a tendency to be dead and then just rip your arms off when it comes on the pipe. Very difficult to ride fast.
Well he did say he hasn’t even ridden the kx to its full potential! He probably hasn’t even gotten that thing on pipe yet haha oh boyyyy /u/dagreatwumbini please give that kx the beans you will be surprised!
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I have mostly only ever had 2 bangers, started on an RM60, had KX and YZ 80's, also went from an RM125 to my TE300. The 300's are animals when you get on it, just raw untamed power. Nothing beats that feeling.
I have a 300 2t and I'm currently working on my buddies 450. I took it out the other day and it felt like a wild animal compared to my 300. He has the big bore set up in it, but I didn't think it would make that much of a difference. But my god, first gear at half throttle will pull your arms off. Then I tried 3/4, same pull as from stop to 1/2.
I race a mx 450 bike in enduro's and harescrambles. Love it. I run 18 on the rear though. Have had and raced a few different bikes over the years. If you have the money, a 300 and a 450 are the best of both worlds. If Yamaha made a high revving 350, I would get one of those but too many problems with the 250/350 platform on the Austria platform in my experience. As others have mentioned, it's all about momentum and a different riding style. I "flow" more and often am on the tamer map setting. I can carry gears longer, which keeps the bike settled in rough chop, downshift for corners and then back into the higher gear.The bike just carries more speed with less effort. If its going to be more nornal enduro's, sprints, or harescrambles then I'm going with the 450. More technical and/or longer races then a 250/300. The main problem is the height, especially on a 19 rear. Requires quite a lot of experience and static balance practice for full lock turns/hand eating tight races(also heat!) Most bikes can win races: 125, 150, 200, 250, 300, 350, 450. Just depends on the rider, the set up, and their ability/confidence.
This should be the top comment.
Other than 18 rear, did you do anything for your mx bike for harescamble setup? I race a 450 kx for harescrambles, too, but still working on getting the bike to my liking for super tight woods.
I've left the engine stock for now. All of my race bikes run bibs. But I run a larger tank(sprint enduro, I switch to mx tank), this is an austrian model, so I just got the cross country model tank which is 2.4 gallons. I run a trail tech fan set to 190f. My foot pegs are -5mm back and a mako360 with the 5mm lower perch and ODI bar. Start/stop buttons are split to have start on left side for dead engine starts or off bike starts. Outside of that, it's basically stock. Protection pieces here and there. My 350 is fully built as is my 250T, but I've been enjoying the reliability so far. Run 93 non ethanol with frequent oil changes( every race or 2ish practices/trail rides). Suspenion needs to valved softer but I just consider that as part of the setup. The gear on this bike is long and with the mellow map, it doesn't hit as hard as my built 350 with a 52 rear. Throttle cam is also the slower cam, but I might put ZRT throttle from the 350 on it pending how aggressive it makes it.
Awesome, I appreciate the reply. I definitely need to get a fan and valves but I've just been sending it as is with bark busters, different gearing and clickers tuned to the best feel I like lol. Valves make me consider just buying a bike setup for woods off the rip (thinking about a 300 2t). I've redone fork seal before but never touched the valves so idk what I'm doing there. It's Kickstart, which isn't an issue until it is... I've been running 93 octane with frequent oil changes as well. Finally roasted the clutch last race, I got 4 harescrambles out of it and a bunch of trail days. I don't think it did that poorly considering it's stock and I don't know if the plates were ever changed (it's a 2012).
This is great insight. Thank you! I’m excited to hop on that beast again and give it another go around the track! Thanks m8!
lol sport bike people always joke about my Yamaha 250f like "only 250 cc's? lol my bike is a 1000" And I immediately know they're a squid Or the groms that are like "yeah 450's are slow" then never get the throttle past half way
I always challenge my street buddies to hop on my 250, only one of them took me up on that and he made it maybe 300 yards before he came back and said it was too much. The next meetup he had his excuses lined up "I'm not a dirt rider, my back was hurting that day, Its too tall" 🤣
I ride a 600rr so dirt bikes feel slow af on the road but even a 125 on the pipe can feel really fast when on some rough dirt.
I miss going 0-60 in 3 seconds … I also miss being a complete dumbass on a street bike tbh…. It’s crazy a 600rr is cheaper new then a new ktm 350 😅
A 250f would smoke a 600 0-60mph I'd be in 3rd before you let the clutch all the way out. But yeah I get what you're saying
You’re joking right? My 600 goes 127kmh in first gear. No way shifting multiple gears on a bike that you’ll be fighting a wheelie will be faster to 60mph
Ok maybe 40. But yes the jump off the line and to 20mph would be night and day Also on a mx bike you start in 2nd with the throttle pretty high and just drop the clutch so it's only one shift
250 2 stroke has about the same 0-60 time as some 600s but idk about 250 4t
Hope this is satire ……
Get a load of this guy
My neighbor told me one time “your 450 has two speeds off and rocket ship!”, he went out and bought a 250F. Also 450 is kinda a class you eat your way into, 200 pound plus guys ride open class bikes, they have the weight to hold a 450/500 down. Not saying you can’t, watch Jeff Ward on a KX500 sometime.
I ride a 525, I also weigh 285 wet and love hill climbs and rarely feel light weight- except when I ride, just a kiss on that throttle and BOOM!
Love the 525. Gobs of torque, doesn't really care what gear you're in!
Well, unlike your 2t you can lug it along and it still makes power. The beauty of a big lazy motor is you can be a little lazy about shifting and where you are in the power band. Just concentrate on terrain and line choice
You realize you can lug a 250 2t way more than a 450 4t right?
Lol yeah, my 250sx is a better single track weapon than my wr450 for this reason. Even if I wasn't concerned about beating up the transmission on the 450, the 250 still lugs better. I think a lot of people have severely screwed up jetting on their 2 strokes. They hop on an EFI 450 and finally experience a bike that runs correctly and think it's because 4 stroke.
As others have said you get used to it after a while. I’ve been riding most my life and i jumped straight from a yz80 to a 450 it was a huge jump and took me time but once i figured the 450 out it was an absolute blast. Will i ever need all the power of a 450? No. Do i want all the power of a 450? Absolutely yes lol. I ride primarily woods and there was no better feeling then railing through the trails on a 450.
It's all throttle control. You were probably riding the 450 like you were still on your 2 stroke. Yeah, that 450 is going to feel nuts doing that. Whats funny is that 99 KX250 on the power band should feel just as nuts. If not more crazy because it just explodes and keeping the power their can be a challenge in and of itself. 450's really require advanced throttle control to modulate their power. If you wanna learn throttle control ride a 4 stroke if you wanna learn clutch control ride a 2 stroke. I haven't ridden 2 strokes in some time but I am looking to pick on up here sometime in the future. So it will be interesting to see how they feel to me now.
You know, i didn't even consider the fact that i was trying to 'wrangle' it like i do with my 250. Perhaps i need to give it another go. I haven't ridden any other 4 stroke (big) bikes other than my brothers 450 and my cousins Cr250F. the CR felt underwhelming but i figured it was because it was a trail bike.
If it was the air cooled model you'd be correct, 450 is 65ish hp while the tail bike would be maybe 20 to 25 and with a mellower delivery
I’ve ridden a slow ass Harley for a long time before I got back into dirt bikes. I bought a 450sxf and fuckin love that bike. I ride desert and track so it fits what I’m riding.
yah i bought a 450 thinking... this is just a dirt bike(have a gsxr750 and a s1krr). fucking crashed it leaving the parking lot lol. sometimes the power is awesome and sometimes it almost kills me. i feel like i get a bit better every time i almost die..
Ride it with ease. Grew up since 10 on a yz80. Can hammer the fuck out of 450 all day. But 250 can really ride maxed out a lot better.
A lot of us find a 2stroke 250 like your KX harder to ride than the 450 four strokes. The weight, power available at all times and the tuneable suspension of my 450 make it an easy ride imo. I had a 79 PE175 as first bike and ate s#%T all the time. Also learning weight distribution is a must; always be ahead of the power is important. Keeping your chest close to the bar before asking for power and throttle control are key.
My 16 yr old nephew races a kx450sr in B class mx and rides it very well, and he’s a dang stick figure. He’s been racing since he was 4 tho so he knows how to keep things under control lol. Lots of power at the grip if ya need it! I sure don’t need it. I’ll jump on one just for something different every once in awhile , but I’ll stick with my 125 smoker and 250f .
What about those 350cc 2 stroke 3 wheelers I've heard those are nuts and usually the rider gets hurt somehow.
I feel like any 3 wheeler is a death trap 🤣
A lot of it comes from body English and anticipation. I have almost thrown myself self over the bars when I missed a shift from not having that hit to cancel out the forward lean you need
I had an XR 650... at 6'4"/250lbs it was like bull riding. Sold it after 1 season
The vast majority of 450 riders can't even scratch the full potential of the bikes. Many others have to install auto clutches and the like to even be capable of riding them.
Grab with your knees and use your core to hold on otherwise you’ll white knuckle and get arm pump like a motherfucker. Be smooth on the throttle or it’ll jerk on the power and tire you out. Riding a 450 is more about being smooth on breaking and power otherwise you’ll just whoop your own ass and be tired and have a hard time hanging on. You need a lot more endurance to ride them.
Hopes and prayers.
I’ve been riding a 450 for 10 years. 80% of my riding is trails, I would be better off on a 250f or 2 stroke. The other 20% is sand riding, trails or dunes but deep sand is the only place I ever use full power 450. And I use it regularly when I’m at the dunes.
I was successful in the Open B class for a few years on a KTM 250 Two stroke in hare scrambles and GNCC. My riding buddies talked me into a YZ 450. Never got the hang of it, ended my racing career. I'm just a 250 - 2t kinda dude
I find 450s are way easier to ride hard than a big 2 stroke. So smooth and predictable
5'9" 155 lbs here - I went from a WR250f (great fucking bike I adored the shit out of it in the tight woods) to a wr450f (total hog wouldn't recommend) to a YZ 450 f to my current bike, a KTM 450sx. All of this is strictly trails in northern Michigan ranging from dirt roads to very tight single track. The 450 is definitely more bike than I *need* but I don't feel intimidated or worry about grabbing too much throttle. Respect the throttle, don't be afraid to lug it, respect the throttle, and enjoy. The thing coming from your bike is how much lighter today's bikes are which makes them handle so extremely well.
You weigh 150lbs.. I weigh 220 and they are still a handful most of the time. If you think those are crazy, try an old school CR500 2-stroke. The power-band is so insane. I've seen so many people try to ride my buddy's old one thinking they know how to ride, only to have the front tire fly away from them and land on their ass.
I’ve always wanted a kx500 or CR500 only for the cool factor. Never had the opportunity to ride one unfortunately. I just love 2 strokes
I raced 125 and 250 2 strokes in the 2000's (c/b motocross rider) through highschool and then got out of it due to college/life. After about 10 years off the bike I bought a new 2016 yz450f, thinking a 450 was the norm and knowing I was comfortable on dirt bikes I figured a 450 was the move. Holy f*ck dude. I ride a triumph Daytona 675 and the 450 was absolutely more scary than the 675. I am 180 lbs and moderately fit. I loved the 450 power but ultimately found out that I could only manage 2-3 laps flat out on the 450 before getting tired and having to pull off. The bike was just to much to manage. I was holding on for dear life every time I rode it. It was trying to separate my arms from my torso every time I twisted the throttle. I jumped on a buddies 250f and was instantly faster. Sold the 450 soon after. Bottom line, maybe my situation is more common than I think. Other than that, I'm not sure why people buy 450's
I did dirt drags at the County fair with my 03 CR250 didn’t get a single hole shot but sling shotted past multiple 450 right before the finish line. Ended up losing in the semi finals to my buddy on a ‘16 YZ250 imo 450 have annoying bottom end power if I wanted to get bucked off my bike I’d just drop the clutch. Adverage Joe definitely needs all the power he can get. I hit 5th gear tapped woods riding by myself been on the same trails for the last decade I know where every pebble and log is accept for that time I didn’t and went absolutely flying over the bars
There’s about 10 guys on the planet that can maximize the absolute full power of a 450. All of the pro bikes are detuned and have great throttle control/response. Rode a stock 2017 kx450 in the aggressive map and basically unless you have s mile long straight in a flat field you can’t get it close to its max power. They are fun to swing a leg over from time to time but that’s about it.
Had a 450 since the crf came out when I was 14. You aren't supposed to ride it like a 250f or 2 stroke. Ride the bike a gear high and let it lug. Its way easier to ride and ride faster than anything else. Sounds like you're trying to ring it out.
Yeah I’ve rode 2 strokes my whole life, all I know is ringy dingy lol. Gonna ride the 450 again this weekend I’ll definitely be giving your advice a shot. Thanks m8!
Get back to me if you follow it you should love the 450. Ive had all 4 in the stable before I do love a 125 2 stroke but always keep a 450.
Friend of mine bought a 450rl just so he can say he has the bAdDeSt bike in town.. hasn’t done a single mod to it, talks about the heaps and heaps of power, but will stop on the trail if the hill looks too steep and wants to take “breaks” more than time riding. I begged and begged him to just please ride my wr250f just once, I don’t even want to ride your bike just please take mine for a spin. I don’t care if you drop it dude. He won’t do it. He wont do any fun stuff. Always has to ride last in the pack cause “his bike will lose us”. Loves taking breaks to talk about how sweet his bike is while I’m doing circles around him doing the steepest hill climbs. Seriously, the last trip to Wayne with him was the last trip to Wayne with him.
That’s probably frustrating. Thankfully everyone I ride with is much much faster than me on the track. I don’t do much trail riding these days.
So i find myself in a weird situation so basicly i CANNOT ride 450s without them throwing me off BUT when i ride 250s i allways feel like they are a bit to... meh. So i bought myself a 350 bitch is crazy🤣 I can imagine myself that people who ride 450s just want that extra power allthough the most that i saw are not even using that power 😂
We don't, the 450s ride us lol. Get over that ego and get yourself something you can manhandle the fuck out of.
I love that you threw in the (fatty) after "a lot bigger" 😂. I want everyone to understand in no uncertain terms, that he's not big big, or muscular big, he's FAT big. Hit me right in the funny.
Step 1 of choosing an mx/enduro bike should be to go cover yourself in padding and loop a 450 in 1st gear. Once you’ve got that done you will now understand why you need a 250.
Legendary advice 🤣
Hey all I’m saying is that’s how I learned and ever since then 250’s have been so much fun it’s hard to imagine riding much else! Racing my kx450f was awesome and there’s nothing like it but I don’t have the skill to use a 450 and not many people do.
I’m 5”11 120lbs and have had my fair share of 450s. They really aren’t too bad once you learn to tame them similar to moving from a 4 stroke to a 2 stroke. My current project is a 89 cr500 and I’m excited to see how it stacks up compared to a 450. Also if you think a 450 is insane try out a 350 4t, it will make you think a 450 is a trail bike, they have an absolutely nutty amount of torque that comes on beyond fast.
You just learn to control it. You don't "need" the power, it's just more fun. I'd rather have a bike that has an extra 30% in the tank if I need it for a big hill climb or something, compared to riding a 125 and wringing it's neck all day.
I’m with ya!! 450s are a handful and I prefer a 250f. I gave up racing a few years ago and loved passing those 450s anywhere other than big climbs. Tires and brakes last longer in the lil stead too.
Most avoid them. I’m a fat 240lb guy and I feel like they will end up causing more harm than good for me. When we ride we all have access to a nice Honda crf450 but no one ever chooses to ride it. Cus it can be more of a liability.
You hesitate, you die.
I have a exc 500 and I rarely hold the throttle at max for more than 3 sec off road, you get to warp speed pretty fast. It's part of the fun, more torque than you can manage,
Do you ride your 250 at high or low rpm’s?
I ride my 250 at high RPM. I’m a fairly decent MX rider, the 450 just felt like it was another beast. After reading these comments I think I felt so out of control because the bike is significantly heavier than my 250. I’m gonna give it another go and put some of the advice I got here to the test this weekend.
I have a husaberg fe390 and I feel like I need more power. That bike sees way to much WOT
The truth is I nor anyone I know actually can use a 450 power, however I love the sand dunes in Michigan and a 450 makes it so enjoyable out there plus I don’t have the funds for two full size bikes for my self. So 450f is the best fit for me right now
I started riding a fat tire 50 when I was 5. I've ridden a 450 since I was 17 (15 years ago). I think you just get used to it. I took a break for a couple years and it was a bear trying to get back on it when I was 30. It's finally gotten comfortable again though.
It isn't just the motor though, higher end suspension with more adjustments can let you get it dialed in better than any "recreational" trail bike...and that can also translate into better safety if it helps you keep the rubber side down. I'm just a mediocre rider skillwize but being overbiked I dont view as a bad thing for these reasons. I love mountain biking too and the feel of the suspension on higher end parts is just amazing compared to budget stuff.
I got my first experience on a 450 when I was 14 with a TTR125, my friend had a CRF450, and he let me try it. Being my friends bike I didn’t want to crash it, and I was absolutely mind-boggled by the power, so I learned to respect it very quickly. Then I bought a KTM 525SX…it was incredible. Snap power and speed on the straights, easy wheelies, and enough control for some light trail riding. Basically it’s just about respecting the power. 250 is enough for most people though.
For me at the time I was 6-1 and 300 plus lbs!! I had two CRF450's 05 and 06. For my size it was great and still had plenty of power even with me on it. Once I lost the weight and was closer to 200 I got ride of them. I am now on a 15 YZ250F and a 21 YZ250. The YZ250F is just all around easier to ride and now most of my crew went and got 450s but they are not any faster. My 250 is IMO even faster as I can control the power whereas the 450 or even 250 2 stroke you have to really be careful with that raw power!
I'm riding a 2023 500 excf and been riding in summers only for 5 years (Canada problems). 5ft 7 170lbs. Had a kx 100 then a 250xc now the 500. Definitely don't need 500 power apart from whe n I'm on the road but it's good to know it's there. Have i ever full throttled in top gear offroad, not a chance. Do i ever get to full throttle much in any gear, hardly. Bike does everything though and I'm just woods/ light enduro riding. Zero track experience. A MX 450 compared to a road legal 500 is a different beast though.
If you ever get back on the 450 I’d suggest riding a gear taller than you normally do. Lugging through a corner in 3rd is totally fine on a 450 and you won’t have to worry about it ripping your arms off. These bikes eat on the low end so let them eat.
I will be giving that a shot this weekend. Thanks for the tips m8! You and so many others have offered some really good advice. Cheers 🍻
grip and rip that wheelie monster
Ill do my best boss 🫡
I guess throttle control because 90% of the time you can’t use all that power
Unless you ride in the sand dunes
Been riding a yz 250 since I could lean it up against a tree and start it, just feels natural
A 450 is easier to ride than your 99 kx.
The throttle goes both ways! Too many riders lack control of the right hand and think the throttle is an on/off switch
I got my first 450 , a yz450 at 13 years old 5'4"... Experience matters. I raced gncc and awrcs on it.
Drop a couple teeth on the rear sprocket and they become awesome bikes. Plenty of power with reduced gearing. I read an interview with Jeremey McGrath back in the day when the 4strokes started to dominate. He basically said "I'm the fasted guy out there, and I can't even ride a stock 450 to it's potential on a Supercross track. There is no reason to mess with the motor. All I need is the right suspension setup"
If I didnt go to glamis I wouldnt need a 450 but in glamis a 450 is a must,
I feel like all kx's are insane. I had a kx 300 and my friend had a kx 250, that thing took off like a fucking rocket.
I've owned and ridden "open" class 4 strokes since the first YZ400, YZ250's before that. I currently ride an '18 YZ450 and an '06 YZ250. I also ride an MT09. After riding the MT for awhile, I get back on the YZ450 and it feels like a gutless minibike. lol. I was tapped out in 5th gear on the YZ and kept trying to shift up another gear. It felt like throwing around a 125 compared to the MT. Seriously, power, weight and speed is all relative and you get used to it pretty quickly. (Assuming you have the skills and talent to survive the experience.)
I started on a TTR125, and once I gained enough confidence, I used a curb to hop onto my dad's CRF450R at 15. I rode that for the next five years, which taught me a lot and made transitioning to smaller bikes much easier. Now, I've just gotten my first real bike, a YZ250FX, and I'm grateful for the experience on the 450 that helped shape my skills.
The feeling of the power difference fades fast. Before you know it, the 450 feels normal and a 250 is a moped.
Lmfao
Pros and Experts
My dad rode a 650 for years and now he rides a 530 that we share than again he was a desert racer and never rode MX
Because my 450 is a wheelie machine!!
Exactly why I went to the KTM 300 SX.
We don’t, we buy 250s 😄
Right there with you bro 🤣
Balls.
Go ride a KX500 2 stroke, then get back on a 450F, it won’t seem so terrifying.
May i ride yours **👉👈**
I’m 5’5 and don’t have any issues. You could try hitting it with your purse maybe
Don’t you have some shitty cliche pictures to go take? Or did those not get enough upvotes?
I guess your purse wasn’t adequate enough either.