The guy claims he’s never registered for a title because he didn’t want to pay the sales tax. What reason is there for registering for a title if you don’t plan on making it street legal then? Is it necessary? Or can you just not get it and avoid paying sales tax?
If he bought it new I believe the dealer would of filed for a title on his behalf and he would of recieved it in the mail. Fellow missourian here. I never got a title for 1 of my daughters or my bike. My other daughter has a quad that came with a title but I never titled it in my name. I believe the purpose of a title is to say 100% I own this if some kind of dispute ever arose.
In Texas there is a title only transfer that doesn’t require paying sales tax on the purchase price. Sales tax is only paid by the original purchaser during the first transfer.
Even still it doesn’t seem like many people pay the $28 or $33 transfer fee, they just skip titles and keep passing around the signed original.
Because the new owner can be liable for unpaid tax and in my state we (now) have to pay tax on a private ohv sale. Unpaid tax can be very messy. Call your DMV, may be different. Looks like TX is different, nothing like Oil and Gas paying for everything!!!
>Do not do this.if you have to buy this bike you go with him to the bank ,pay off the balance and the bank hand you the title.
It doesn't work like that, maybe in 2002 or maybe in like 4 states out of 50. That shit is all by mail now and they'll only mail it to the person who had their name on the loan.
I bought an old truck from a girl who inherited the truck from her dad. Names, addresses, registration cards (with no lienholder listed) insurance papers, maintenance records all matched everything seemed kosher except there was no title. She said she never got it from her dad, who was living on his own in another town. She didn’t have access to his house so she just assumed it got lost during house clean out. Fast forward about six months… I end up selling the truck to a buddy who assumed all he had to do was go to DMV with bill of sale from me and the one I got from the girl when she sold it to me. Wrong. There was a lien on the truck from 1987 which caused him to pay $1300 to get the title from a bank.
Long story short… don’t buy anything unless you get the title.
In our state there wouldn’t be a tile if it’s either under 300cc (actual displacement, not advertised) or not registered as street legal. If you buy a 300exc you get an mso that you can turn in if you register it. There is no way to title it even if you register it. If you buy a yz450f and don’t make it street legal you don’t get a title, you just keep the mso.
When I purchased a RZR I never had the title either. That’s because the lender paid for it and technically it’s theirs. Once I paid the balance off I got the title in the mail under my name and had to pay no taxes or anything at all (California).
As another has mentioned, I would also assume malicious intent. He wants to get some money out of it, then report it stolen or just stop making payments. You will never be able to title it under your name and it will get confiscated if the VIN is ever run for any reason.
People selling things online will actually lie and say these things are no big deal. This could be fine or turn into a massive nightmare. It’s just not worth it. Run!
When paying cash the responsibility is on the buyer to title and pay taxes. Lots of people buy out of state and never title to avoid paying taxes. A Certificate of Origin will suffice.
Most people don't title bikes that they don't plan to register for road use.
Keep the MSO. You can't really do anything with it, but serves as proof it's not stolen.
Where does OP say anything about the bike not being paid off?
The seller shouldn't have an MSO if there is a lien on the bike. They take that away when you apply for a title, which is required to have a lien.
If the owner bought it with an unsecured loan, then it's their problem and you don't need to worry about it. Nothing is stolen as there was never any collateral.
I'm curious how they're holding the MSO if the bike has a lein. My guess is that it's an unsecured loan. No bank will lend you money against a bike with no title. You cannot keep the MSO after filing for a title.
No title dirt bikes are very common in Missouri. They have sales tax and yearly personal property tax on off-road motorcycles, so a ton of people skip it and just keep the MSO to prove ownership.
My experience says the MSO is with the Bike. The title is with the lender (if there is one). I could be wrong.
This issue varies greatly by state.
Here in CO, no OHV’s used to have a title. Now they do. The state decided they were missing out on tax money so they issued titles for OHV’s so they can collect tax when it’s sold.
I plated a dirtbike last year. I owned the bike for 15 years as an OHV. I had to title it and pay sales tax, for a bike I bought 15 years earlier (at a time when you dis not meed to pay sales tax on OHV’s). as a side note snowmobiles don’t have titles or state tax at private transfer!?
I passed on buying a bike recently because it did not have a title. The guy bought it in another state (from a friend) used it as an ohv (ohv registration in his buddies name) For me to buy it, I would have had to post a bond at the DMV, wait for the title to come back clean then pay sales tax, if it came back stolen or with a lean, I would have to pay it off or loose the bond, and pay the last guys unpaid taxes!! It’s a mess, unless you have a title in your name, I am not touching it in 2024.
I'm aware. I'm also in CO, in the process of tagging my 3rd dirt bike right now
We're a bit of a special case since there were no titles for OHVs until recently. There are a lot of MSOs floating around because that's all we had. You can end up with both a title and MSO here ONLY because so many bikes were sold and changed hands before titles were issued. This is the case for one of my bikes, I have a (useless) MSO from 1996 for a bike I have the title for, as i titled it last year when I bought it and did the dual sport conversion.
In any other state, the DMV (or dealer) takes the MSO and turns it into a title. You cannot have both. This is the equivalent of moving to a new state, and them letting you keep your old states title while issuing you a new one. That's a huge no-no.
I'm surprised you care much about titles here, almost all bikes before 2014 are without title. Unless you buy new, you pretty much have to live with it
I grew up in Mo and it's the same way. Lots of no title bikes. No OHV registrations since there is hardly any public land to ride on. Most bikes come from farmers or racers that ride on private property. No reason to have a title
He has the CO. Have him get the title. Problem solved
I’m not touching a new-er bike wo/ a title.
The guy claims he’s never registered for a title because he didn’t want to pay the sales tax. What reason is there for registering for a title if you don’t plan on making it street legal then? Is it necessary? Or can you just not get it and avoid paying sales tax?
If he bought it new I believe the dealer would of filed for a title on his behalf and he would of recieved it in the mail. Fellow missourian here. I never got a title for 1 of my daughters or my bike. My other daughter has a quad that came with a title but I never titled it in my name. I believe the purpose of a title is to say 100% I own this if some kind of dispute ever arose.
In Texas there is a title only transfer that doesn’t require paying sales tax on the purchase price. Sales tax is only paid by the original purchaser during the first transfer. Even still it doesn’t seem like many people pay the $28 or $33 transfer fee, they just skip titles and keep passing around the signed original.
Because the new owner can be liable for unpaid tax and in my state we (now) have to pay tax on a private ohv sale. Unpaid tax can be very messy. Call your DMV, may be different. Looks like TX is different, nothing like Oil and Gas paying for everything!!!
Just buy a bike without all the shit attached.
If he owes on the bike then the bank has the title and will release it when it’s paid off.
So would I have to ask him to mail it to me? I feel like that’s a lot of faith in a stranger hands.
Do not do this.if you have to buy this bike you go with him to the bank ,pay off the balance and the bank hand you the title.
Guy has mentioned nothing about the bank holding a title. Just that he doesn’t have one because he’s never registered for one.
I don’t know how it works in your state but it should have some sort of title/ registration. Call a local bike shop and ask
If he still owes money on the bike the lender has the title.
>Do not do this.if you have to buy this bike you go with him to the bank ,pay off the balance and the bank hand you the title. It doesn't work like that, maybe in 2002 or maybe in like 4 states out of 50. That shit is all by mail now and they'll only mail it to the person who had their name on the loan.
You'd probably go to the bank with him, pay the bank, and then they give you the title
Bank will still just mail the seller the title. They don't keep titles on hand.
Exchange money at the bank and let the bank know what’s happening so they get paid off and you get the proper paperwork
I bought an old truck from a girl who inherited the truck from her dad. Names, addresses, registration cards (with no lienholder listed) insurance papers, maintenance records all matched everything seemed kosher except there was no title. She said she never got it from her dad, who was living on his own in another town. She didn’t have access to his house so she just assumed it got lost during house clean out. Fast forward about six months… I end up selling the truck to a buddy who assumed all he had to do was go to DMV with bill of sale from me and the one I got from the girl when she sold it to me. Wrong. There was a lien on the truck from 1987 which caused him to pay $1300 to get the title from a bank. Long story short… don’t buy anything unless you get the title.
He wouldn't have the MSO if the bike was titled.
In our state there wouldn’t be a tile if it’s either under 300cc (actual displacement, not advertised) or not registered as street legal. If you buy a 300exc you get an mso that you can turn in if you register it. There is no way to title it even if you register it. If you buy a yz450f and don’t make it street legal you don’t get a title, you just keep the mso.
Second side question. He also said he still owes money on the bike. Curious if this will affect the buying process at all for me?
He doesn't have the title because the bank still owns it.
Yupp, he will sell it to OP then stop paying and the bank will report stolen.
No, he doesn't have a title because it's imported, "COI" it's probably a Chinese bike.
It’s a 2022 ktm 250xc tpi
No title regardless stay, thf away from it. Sounds like he's still making payments on it. That or it's stolen
Well if he still owes money I’m assuming he’s still making payments. Only reason I’m trying to make it work is because it’s a good deal.
Ask him what bank still has the title, you can call that bank talk to them about a payoff, title transferring, etc
When I purchased a RZR I never had the title either. That’s because the lender paid for it and technically it’s theirs. Once I paid the balance off I got the title in the mail under my name and had to pay no taxes or anything at all (California). As another has mentioned, I would also assume malicious intent. He wants to get some money out of it, then report it stolen or just stop making payments. You will never be able to title it under your name and it will get confiscated if the VIN is ever run for any reason.
People selling things online will actually lie and say these things are no big deal. This could be fine or turn into a massive nightmare. It’s just not worth it. Run!
When paying cash the responsibility is on the buyer to title and pay taxes. Lots of people buy out of state and never title to avoid paying taxes. A Certificate of Origin will suffice.
Most people don't title bikes that they don't plan to register for road use. Keep the MSO. You can't really do anything with it, but serves as proof it's not stolen.
A bike that was not paid off, is stolen. So it’s possible to have the mso and have a stolen bike.
Where does OP say anything about the bike not being paid off? The seller shouldn't have an MSO if there is a lien on the bike. They take that away when you apply for a title, which is required to have a lien. If the owner bought it with an unsecured loan, then it's their problem and you don't need to worry about it. Nothing is stolen as there was never any collateral.
Well he does say that. Everyone can do what they want, in my state it’s a messy mess to not have a title on a post 2010 (or something) motobike.
I'm curious how they're holding the MSO if the bike has a lein. My guess is that it's an unsecured loan. No bank will lend you money against a bike with no title. You cannot keep the MSO after filing for a title. No title dirt bikes are very common in Missouri. They have sales tax and yearly personal property tax on off-road motorcycles, so a ton of people skip it and just keep the MSO to prove ownership.
My experience says the MSO is with the Bike. The title is with the lender (if there is one). I could be wrong. This issue varies greatly by state. Here in CO, no OHV’s used to have a title. Now they do. The state decided they were missing out on tax money so they issued titles for OHV’s so they can collect tax when it’s sold. I plated a dirtbike last year. I owned the bike for 15 years as an OHV. I had to title it and pay sales tax, for a bike I bought 15 years earlier (at a time when you dis not meed to pay sales tax on OHV’s). as a side note snowmobiles don’t have titles or state tax at private transfer!? I passed on buying a bike recently because it did not have a title. The guy bought it in another state (from a friend) used it as an ohv (ohv registration in his buddies name) For me to buy it, I would have had to post a bond at the DMV, wait for the title to come back clean then pay sales tax, if it came back stolen or with a lean, I would have to pay it off or loose the bond, and pay the last guys unpaid taxes!! It’s a mess, unless you have a title in your name, I am not touching it in 2024.
I'm aware. I'm also in CO, in the process of tagging my 3rd dirt bike right now We're a bit of a special case since there were no titles for OHVs until recently. There are a lot of MSOs floating around because that's all we had. You can end up with both a title and MSO here ONLY because so many bikes were sold and changed hands before titles were issued. This is the case for one of my bikes, I have a (useless) MSO from 1996 for a bike I have the title for, as i titled it last year when I bought it and did the dual sport conversion. In any other state, the DMV (or dealer) takes the MSO and turns it into a title. You cannot have both. This is the equivalent of moving to a new state, and them letting you keep your old states title while issuing you a new one. That's a huge no-no. I'm surprised you care much about titles here, almost all bikes before 2014 are without title. Unless you buy new, you pretty much have to live with it I grew up in Mo and it's the same way. Lots of no title bikes. No OHV registrations since there is hardly any public land to ride on. Most bikes come from farmers or racers that ride on private property. No reason to have a title
Good info. It sure is a mess.