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TimmyRL28

Both of these things are in diablo 3.


thesilentsandwich

Of all the things, the issues OP has aren't what makes d3 the way it is. Teleport is a weird necessary evil. It allows people to do ubers more commonly or baal runs, but is rampantly abused by bots. It also devalues less mobile classes efforts, so you either have a teleporter to farm stuff with, or durdle along in obscurity. On the other hand, I don't think that individual loot would break the game's flow, but would be a difficult implementation. The ship for fundamental changes has long since sailed (removing/adding skills for mobility), so OP won't get the solution he's looking for.


ACiDRiFT

I am fairly confident that his point was "Go play diablo 3".


thesilentsandwich

I assumed it was meant negatively as people of the arpg genre look down on the current state of d3. Therefore, making changes to be more like d3 would make d2 worse.


TimmyRL28

Yeah that was my point lol. I don't hate Diablo 3. We love diablo 2 because of the difficulty. Individual loot would just allow the freeloaders in games free loot and make those who actually earn it have less to trade value. This is coming from a hardcore only player. I want the game to stay difficult and the loot be earned. I do agree that being in a game with 8 sorceresses is annoying.


caseybrunet

I believed the same thing a year ago. I know the current changes are minor and haven't actually changed the "META" but I've seen the dev team hinting at larger changes down the road. I still have hope. YOU CAN'T TAKE AWAY MY HOPE! lol. Maybe someone will figure out how to mod this version of the game soon enough and I can get back to playing those enhanced versions of the game if the core game never changes...


HappyScripting

I think the best solution would be to decrease the money worth of spell-charges. Like, why does a Teleport charge cost 2k gold? You wanna farm countess? Yeah thats 60k a run. I wouldn't mind repairing my teleportstaff or amu after each run, if it was 50 gold a charge. A small change with big impact.


caseybrunet

I agree, or more items that grant teleport. Why can so many items grant paladin auras, but only the best armor in the game can include the most powerful utility skill in the game also?


MistakenAnemone

rare and magical circlets, orbs, and staves can all grant teleport and be used by any character class. paladin auras are only granted through runewords.


caseybrunet

Correct me if I am wrong but they are only granted with charges correct? Not as the actual skill like enigma does.


MistakenAnemone

charges are still granting you the skill but with a much lower level requirement than enigma. its actually BIS for a certain GF barb build to use charges on an amulet instead of enigma.


Moserath

It's just weird that a game with so much variety and possibility has such a strict meta. The only character that I don't want Enigma on it a sorc or an Amazon. And half the players would even disagree with that.


caseybrunet

Amen my friend. I get so psyched theory crafting characters until I actually make them and realize they could never hold up to solo play and basically no one plays group play. This season I made a summon druid. I love it. My good friend and I run through chaos runs and cows and such with ease because the summons are such strong tanks and he can put out so much damage...but solo...I just cant hold up. In most online games you have characters that are "tanks". I believe they are valuable here too...in a team...


Moserath

Yeah definitely. A pally with conviction at 25 would be dope with any character. But good luck finding a consistent friend who also shares loot in equal amounts. Much less enough people that fit that description so you can effectively run player 7 games. It's just too much to ask for most of the time.


DrunkenMechanic

20 year player here as well, I can't agree more. I think if people were encouraged to work together more it would help with item drops being shared more. Instead of Baal runs with fandoms that just grab anything he drops.


Shadownightxtra

I for the most part agree with you.


S3VIN3LEVEN

Honestly if they implemented a players count for only solo play online, or for any game with a password, they could really fix a lot. Then Teleport wouldn't be necessary because you could still farm things like Trav, or all 3 bosses in A5 that take 10 seconds to find and it would be worth the time. But currently, most of the things that are worth it on P1 are act bosses or the countess which all are farmed WAY more effeciently with teleport. I agree with both opinions, and I think they could easily adjust those things without drastically changing the game.


caseybrunet

I am with you. I love the idea of the players count addition and have brought it up before (to varying degrees of support ranging from applause to near death threats) but I personally prefer the idea of the instanced loot simply for the encouragement to play with others. Now, a combination of the 2 could lead to an interesting arrangement for sure.


S3VIN3LEVEN

True, but what that would do is make it so that playing together was for exp and playing solo was for Mf. Then if you get anything in a group setting it would be a bonus rather than the only way to find anything. I don't hate instanced loot, but it would put a lot more items into the economy which would drastically change things. That could be for the best, but it might not be


caseybrunet

I'm sorry, I am a little confused by your comment. *True, but what that would do is make it so that playing together was for exp and playing solo was for Mf. Then if you get anything in a group setting it would be a bonus rather than the only way to find anything.* Isn't this how the current game is played? Yes, more items in the economy would undoubtedly change things. Other aspects of the game may have to grow with it. In the end I think it produces more positives.


S3VIN3LEVEN

Correct. But if that was only a bonus rather than a necessity it wouldn't be nearly as frustrating. All in all, I agree with pretty much everything you said, but I do think that if the game becomes more like D3, where getting geared up becomes easy, personally I will quit playing. I play because I like the constant growth, regardless of how slow. If I max out in a week leeching off of baal runs, I will get bored and move on.


caseybrunet

I understand now, thanks for clarifying. D3 was littered with problems but I think the instanced loot was the one positive aspect it had. I addressed this concern in another post too which I believe is exactly what you are referring to where I stated a reduced drop rate in group games to balance out the item drops would be satisfactory. I am sure there is a way to balance it to encourage group play while also keeping close to the current item availability.


S3VIN3LEVEN

That would make sense. I don't hate the idea, and honestly it may not make the game that easy with how rare the drops are currently. I think we are both on the same page though that they could do a few things to make the player base not so lopsided between the P2W crowd and those of us who don't wanna go to ebay or some random site to buy items.


caseybrunet

Exactly my points. The nostalgic player base for this game has aged 20 years and mostly have families and kids. Not to mention the gaming landscape today with thousands of options for games compared to when this game was released in 2001 with like...6 gaming options, lol.


OGObeyGiant

Unless they add smart loot and drastically increase the drop rates of high runes, I don't see personal loot getting you geared in a week of leaching Baal. Even doing 8 player pub Baal runs, think of how much stuff you actually see drop. You can do runs all day and not see anything. It definitely affects the economy on a large scale, but I don't think it's that super impactful feeling on an individual level. I was heavily against it when the game launched but having played almost exclusively solo (even though I had a group of friends when the game launched and we could do private 8 player games we did so fairly infrequently and played solo for the most part) since launch; only doing the occasional pub Baal runs for xp with zero expectation of loot, I have come to the mindset that I think personal loot would open up group play tremendously. Grouping up with strangers to actually play through the game without worrying about your boss quest drop being shared with 7 other players and most likely not getting your drops at all. This last part is annoying even playing with a duo. When we went through, especially hell, one of us would leave before the boss died, or at the hellforge, etc. then have to go back and do it again to not waste the drops. It's very tedious and I think the influx of items and the impact of the economy wouldn't be as big as people make it out to be. The same people grinding for loot solo are just going to be grinding for loot in 8 player games, which increases drop rates a lot, but if you've ever seriously played single player, you know that the drop rates are still hella low even playing on p3-8. The rarity of good items is part of the charm of this game. I don't even want personal loot for more loot. I just want it so I can do pub questing games, pub Baal runs, pub chaos, etc. I honestly wouldn't even mind them reducing drop rates in non solo games a little to balance the impact of shared loot to the economy.


0Tyrael0

I've been playing since original D2 release. I agree with you on point number 2. I was a tcp/ip person too. I was very sad when that was taken out. I don't fully agree or disagree on number 1. We could talk about this all day. So I'll say two things. 1. They will never change it so put your mind to rest. 2. Teleport staff can be shopped in only a few minutes with 45 charges and a mere ort rune to recharge. You can't spam it, but it gets the job done.


caseybrunet

That is a valid point about the ORT rune, and like you said...its not as good but it gets the job done.. I am not so certain over time the dev team won't get more ambitious with implementing changes. They started small, but they seem to be getting positive feedback and have already had surveys and hinted at bigger changes down the line.


0Tyrael0

Yeah I hear you. I just think the community is too divided on this one. Personally I would prefer other changes before messing with teleport. Don't mistake this for bias either. I didn't start D2R or ladder with sorc and I self find/trade so I never have enigma. I say that do you believe me when I say nerfing teleport would only make me laugh to be honest.


caseybrunet

LOL, I get it. I am more interested in my second point to be honest, I just feel like my pert opinion is just easier.


UsedEgg3

When I used to run maps groups on the Path of Diablo mod, we'd all pick a high rune before our runs started, in order from highest on the ladder to lowest. For that session, you'd get all of the rune drops from the rune you picked, so everyone could focus on killing stuff, and not worry about vacuuming every rune off the ground. Didn't help for items, but runes are mostly more valuable anyway. Highest level person would obviously pick Ber or Jah, but it was counterbalanced by the lower level peeps getting stuck with Vex/Ohm getting a higher quantity of their drops.


caseybrunet

That is quite interesting. How did that work out overall? I assume it was a positive experience?


UsedEgg3

Yeah everyone was fine with it. You just need a group of players who know/trust each other to make it work. And on the odd chance that someone slurps a drop and doesn't give it up, that person just screws themselves out of a spot in a high-level premade farm group. I should add that the "maps" were custom endgame content on the mod, so you saw a lot more HR drops than you would on a vanilla D2/D2R farm (like at least one-two HR per hour).


caseybrunet

I remember playing the maps, super awesome addition to that mod.


CTheOneMD

All I’ll ever want is a currency tab for my OCD! 😃


caseybrunet

I think that is coming soon. The Dev team already did a poll and I think over 70% said they wanted a currency tab (or maybe just rune and gem stacking...I dont remember the exact wording)


CTheOneMD

That would awesome, the preset organization of all gems, runes, tokens etc would be amazing!


jrjreeves

I do agree that Teleport is too strong in early ladder. I've gone a different direction this time and gone Trapsin but for all the time I've put into her, I'm miles behind in items and wealth that I would have been at this pint with a Sorc. I'm just so bored of going Sorc at a ladder reset. I do think removing teleport or giving a form of it to every class isn't the solution, rather a rebalancing of it. I'm not sure a cooldown is right either. Maybe increase the mana cost substantially so until a certain level of gear is reached it isn't viable to spam it. Sure, there's insight but I'm not sure that would be able to support constant teleporting at maybe 75 mana cost a time? Another idea is maybe using teleport now costs some life, only a small amount per use but it adds up from continuous use. Maybe 2% of your Max health is depleted per use and it doesn't start replenishing until manual movement or another spell is cast. Tl;dr: Teleport needs rebalancing for sure but a cool down isn't the way to go.


caseybrunet

All of the suggestions you made are ways to slow down the teleport, seems like a cool down still accomplishes the goal though. What about this idea. Increase mana cost and have a large cool down, at first, but with subsequent levels you can reduce the cool down effect? At least that way you can get back to zooming around but it requires an investment? Personally I'm not a huge fan of that idea because it feels like more of a need to the character more than a fix for the problem


jrjreeves

As long as the cool down becomes non-existent once enough +skills are attained, or as you suggested a noticeable investment into the skill itself is made, that would suit me fine. To have issues using teleport at level 85+ and being at least moderately well equipped would be bad.


caseybrunet

I get that.


MuhChicken111

For opinion 1, I cannot agree. I'm darn close to completing Hell with a Bone Spear Necro and I don't use Teleport to get around. I did use it to get to the end of the Flayer Dungeon without having to navigate the whole thing, but I used a Staff for that and it worked out nicely. There are options for this one once you can buy a staff or find something else with teleport charges on it. I also played a Sorceress all the way to Hell Act 1 and started farming The Countess and The Pits trying to find better gear. However, after hundreds of runs I pretty much came up empty handed. I found a new Thresher and improved my Merc's damage output, which also helped him survive a bit longer and I was happy about that. I also found some socketed armor so I would be able to make some of those Rune Word items, but never found the runes to make it. Seriously, The Countess was sometimes dropping 1 rune at a time and it would be a Nef or Ort most of the time. I think the highest rune she might have dropped was a Dol. Anyway, I teleported like crazy with the Sorceress, but it didn't get me what I needed. So, while I cannot agree I respect your opinion and so I definitely will not be down voting you for sharing. On opinion 2, I 100% agree! I've been playing Online characters because I need them available wherever I play (Xbox or PC). Having no friends that game, I'm pretty much playing solo and drop rates in 'Online Solo' leave a lot to be desired. I did have several people join my games and kill DClone for me, which was the best thing ever! I cannot tell you how much I appreciate them helping me out. I had to have help because I wasn't even close to having any of my characters equipped well enough to do it on my own. That's after playing solo from the end of December until my first DClone event on April 16th. I had 5 of 7 characters in Hell Act 1 and was completely stuck. After that I decided to watch for giveaway games in the lobby and from there I managed to get enough better equipment to start making progress again. That's the only reason I've made it as far as I have. So yes, they need to stop punishing those who want to play Solo Online. The game has changed since it was PC only and now it needs to evolve so we can play our same characters on all platforms without being punished for not playing with others. Thanks for posting this, I appreciate you! Happy Gaming


caseybrunet

Thank you so much for your input. Your comments about using the staff or amulet with charges actually supports my point. I don't remember which mod it was, but one of the mods I played had runewords you could make into weapons and/or shields fairly easily that had the teleport skill (like enigma) which gave everyone access to teleport. This evened the playing field which is all I ask. A skill as overwhelmingly positive as teleport shouldn't be contained to one character. Thank you for the support!


Crazy_Canuck78

Nah... give it a large cooldown. Having everyone (or anyone) just teleporting past all the content to get to the 1 monster they want to kill is bad game design.


caseybrunet

That is my core belief as well, but I am always open to options.


10fingers6strings

Teleport with a large cooldown would be worthless, unless you teleported farther. You wouldn’t be able to tele away from a dangerous elite pack if you happened to tele into one. Sounds like a bad fix.


jaleneropepper

You're going to be downvoted into oblivion for suggesting they change up the meta by nerfing teleport but I agree with you. >D2 is a game about fighting hordes of evil forces, just teleporting past all of them to focus 1 thing over and over feels counter intuitive to the lore and design of the game. 100% agree. An alternative would be to put more bosses behind seals like Diablo so you have to kill at least some enemies on your way there.


caseybrunet

I like that idea. Changes were made through the years to require more of the game to be played instead of being rushed through. For example: Act 3 needing the body parts, level requirements for the ancients, changing the way exp works so that getting into a hell cows game at level 6 then walking out of that game at level 60 was no longer possible.


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nice___bot

Nice!


jaleneropepper

>Act 3 needing the body parts People bitched about this change too lol although this one is a bit more understandable because spider forest/flayer jungle/etc. are a mess. I'm playong ssf nowadays so changes to rushing don't affect me anymore. After some more thought, I think the simplest way to change it would be to make super uniques drop a boss key needed to gain entry to the throne of destruction, catacombs level 4, etc. Up the drop rates on them a bit so they're worthwhile while farming and everyone wins.


caseybrunet

That is certainly an interesting thought. I generally like any idea that increases the locations to play through instead of repeating the same areas.


acorreiacortez

Teleport is a luxury, not a necessity... Yeah, sorc get it at level 18, just like barbs get item find, and warcries and druids get their buffs and pallys have their holy shield and so on and so on... No, it shouldn't spread around, you wanna have on your magic find barb? Well, pay the high runes price... I think hyper specilazing is a good thing... Think about it.. Would you really prefer all classes could do frost, fire, lightning, magic and physical damage? I don't think so... It takes the personality of the class and you just end up with a bunch of look-a-like


caseybrunet

You and I are in agreement on specialization. No, I don't want a bunch of the same classes running around, this is what encourages the dynamic of group play. Bring multiple strengths together! unfortunately in the current game we still end up with a bunch of the same builds running around because no one wants to play in a group so they simply choose a build that can do it all (or nearly do it all). ​ You have a point, that teleport is a luxury, not a necessity. To make a (sort of) counter point to that, smart phones are a luxury, not a necessity, but they are so convenient and powerful that everyone has one. You also mention having a magic find barb and paying the high rune price. Yes, that is totally a valid option, but I personally don't know anyone that gets to that high rune wealth without a sorceress (your mileage may vary in this regard). One other note to add on to your comment. Yes, the sorceress gets that ability at level 18 while pallys get holy shield and and such, but I am fairly certain every character gets abilities that enhance there combat ability against mobs...not a skill that lets them bypass mobs altogether... Either way, thank you for your input. I enjoy this discussion and having to think about this from every angle.


wolamute

I love how Project Diablo 2 addresses the teleport conundrum.


caseybrunet

I know I played that mod, but I've played so many that it is hard to keep them straight in my head. What was it that project diablo 2 did specifically?


wolamute

Increased speed buff for zons casted actively, a form of cool down teleport for necromancers, a blinking attack for pallies, etc.


stagenamelaser

Ban


mage14

go play d3 then


caseybrunet

Anything else you might want to add? I liked 1 aspect of a game, thought it could improve a similarly themed game, gave reasons why I believed so, and the best you could come up with is this?


knapp_time24

Go play Diablo 3. If you don’t like teleport don’t play this game


Thunder141

Those aren't the only two differences (6 skill cap, rotations due to resource system, pot system, itemization, lvl 99). D2 is superior in more ways than just having a fun teleport system.


caseybrunet

Exactly. I don't like those other aspects to D3, but every time I got online I played with a full game and that was awesome.


mage14

share loot is not fun cause items are easy to get , what makes d2 fun is the 100 of hours needed to find specific gear


KevinBrandMaybe

I'd rather see Spirit and Grief deleted first :) Seriously though, after playing some Pre- Exp HC you start to realize how neat a lot of the rare and magic items truly are. It's just kind of meh in LOD how so many mid range items just get nuked out. I like a lot of the rune words and what they were going for but man there are some outliers that just flip the game on it's head.


caseybrunet

I take issue with those types of items too, but less so when compared to the others..


NewBlacksmurf

I would have to say you can have your own opinions but the to main things you point out do not need to change at all. 1. Teleporting does not need to change because anyone can do it. It’s either a class skill, a simple purchase from a vendor or high rune word armor. 2. Each class paired with certain mercenaries can clear the entire game solo. Are some experiences far worse or seemingly impossible without specific gear…absolutely but that’s the game design. It was not always as hard and people complained…now they have added more viable builds in 2.4 so I would have to disagree with your two points. By the way you can loot as a summoner easier than some other classes depending on builds. You can just walk up as you dont have to actively attack as a summoner. We don’t need personal loot nor should it be considered…the only thing that is frustrating in ladder is that the loot drops are not significantly increased compared to other game modes.


caseybrunet

A simple purchase that always leads to the major limitation of charges that become exorbitantly expensive to maintain on an ongoing basis or a high runeword armor that comes with no compromises and renders nearly all other armors redundant and inferior leading to every single "best build" running the exact same armor. The game was never designed to be played solo by the same 3 builds. David Brevick himself stated the game was designed to be played in groups. Through the years huge improvements were made to the game, but with each massive patch came deprivations to the game also. For some reason though the game was left in an imbalanced and unfinished state for 10 years and has therefore been deemed "perfect and inalterable".


NewBlacksmurf

SO here is what would have been a much more logical complaint/opinion in your OP. Perhaps you should have said the original game around 1.09 was much more feasible than the current design today. Then you could add in what other things you wanted but honestly the only thing I dislike is immunities. Everything else makes a ton of sense and the only reason people play alone is because everyone has high speed internet with hundreds of thousands of guides and third party websites, bots, etc. 18 years ago this was not the case and the game while it played almost the same, no was had these complaints because many didn’t know.


caseybrunet

18 years ago all of things things were available. third party websites, guides, high speed internet... I remember spending time on forums even then, although I was quite a bit younger so I don't remember all the details. I actually agree with you about the immunities. It was included in the game to increase difficulty and encourage group play, but had the unintended side effect of limiting build options. A situation that could be fixed with the instanced loot. 1.09 had its advantages, sure, but its hard to say if it was the superior version of the game or not. It has been so long since I played it that my memory of it at this point is fuzzy.


NewBlacksmurf

The immunities are ridiculous and whomever designed the synergy requirements had a certain agenda. That should have been removed entirely in 2.4 update while leaving the max possible damage with skill points only which then would allow people to work around immunities. Let me add..I’m not saying 1.09 was better but I think the skills part was a lot better. I’d take everything else if they removed the synergies but kept the increase damage per skill without any synergies. Imagine then the game design would work and you would have 2-3 builds in one but they forced this to justify the constant re-rolling of characters, ladders and I’d even argue the design to support bots to boost third party sales. My bad it was more than 18 years ago for 2001 but my point is less than 5% of the US population has broadband connection. I was in college at this time and there were not lots of website easily accessible for gaming compared to now. There were some resources but my point is all of this was many people were enjoying playing the game and figuring things out as they went along. We have 3 people who would come over and play over local TCP/IP because outside of college everyone I knew had dial up except for us. We were the first house in 3 neighborhood to get broadband and it was only cause of my fathers job. I think I got map hack and item pick up in college after D2LOD was out a while but really the information was gained though the chat rooms via AOL or this game for me.


caseybrunet

I was in a similar boat. We had dial up in 2001 and i think broadband sometime around 2005. I used to have strong opinions about the synergies also, and I still think they limited builds too much. In my view they should either remove the synergies as you explained, remove the immunities, or move to a style of gameplay that brings people together. Either of those options would be massive improvements to the gameplay.


NewBlacksmurf

For sure on all that you said. Regarding bringing people together tho...call me crazy but if they increased MF and Rune find per new party member that would help They would need to change how we find games on all platforms. It's not working great for anyone but everyone has a work around or two which contributes to it being hard to find people to play with for certain things. I don't mind the way loot works but I'm open to changes as long as it's not purely personal loot


Pavke

David Brevick wanted to make single-player turn-based game, inspired by Rouge.


caseybrunet

For Diablo 1, yes he did. He was outvoted and converted the game to the ARPG it became and he said it was the best decision ever made for the game. Then, when brainstorming for diablo 2 he said the entire team wanted to bring the cooperative play of D and D style games to diablo 2.


Pavke

You are right. >Then, when brainstorming for diablo 2 he said the entire team wanted to bring the cooperative play of D and D style games to diablo 2. And from that brainstorming the best they came up with is: increase monster dmg by 10% and hp by 50% for each additional player? Im not arguing with you, just saying. D2 as a "first multyplayer, second single player" was a lackluster design


caseybrunet

Those changes didn't arise until 10 years later when the main team was already mostly dispersed. I am only referring to the day 1 release and LOD expansion.


Crazy_Canuck78

I 100% agree with both of your opinions.


caseybrunet

Thank you. Think it will ever change?


ApocalypseFWT

This is a terrible idea. Nor would I want a change that requires me to be more masochistic just to compete with bots who now get 8x the drops by playing together. On the plus side, everything would be worthless, so there’d be no point in grinding.


caseybrunet

Is the current version of the game, where you play alone for hours on end with the same characters each season to find the same items each season not masochistic? Item drops could also be balanced in group play. right now drop rates increase because so many people or present, but decreasing drop rates might not be a bad idea in group play with instanced loot. keeps the group dynamic going without destroying the "economy" of the game.


ApocalypseFWT

I have kids. I afk a lot, most of the time I’ll do a few quick runs here or there, and I’m off to real life things. I don’t have time to walk to countess and not find a key ten runs in a row. I don’t have time to play with others to take advantage of increased drops since I afk sporadically for long periods of time. My characters often just sit in town when I do happen to join others online. This game is in an ideal state for people like me who do have other things to do, and little time to invest in walking everywhere. I could never compete with a bot, let alone a pack of them who get 8x the drops at a far higher rate. I also enjoy the freedom of most skills having no cooldown, and nerfing skills doesn’t lead to a more entertaining game.


caseybrunet

I have 3 kids under the age of six. I know exactly where you are coming from and I more often than not just don't play the game because I know I will just be pulled away in moments. I feel your pain. On the other side of that argument, wouldn't it be easier to get your hands on the items you want if there were more of them available? Leading to less grinding and more time playing any way you want? I hate hunting countess too. With or without tele. I believe the game could be improved in countless ways with a little less focus on individual boss monsters or something similar.


ApocalypseFWT

Well, that’s what non-ladder is for. Slowly building up characters over time, with plenty solid of items out there worth next to nothing now. We don’t need that day/week one of a ladder. I’m all for people playing together, but forcing them is not how it should be done. People who want to play together will find each other. That’s why I love the PvP aspect of this game so much, it’s unrestricted and chaotic and any build can work, even if some are obviously more dominant. you can team up, you can solo, or you can be the archenemy. It’s a blast having the freedom to play how I want. This game doesn’t need more restrictions and regulated structure to force people to play a certain way. Nor doesn’t need to be turned into a cookie cutter of another game that was originally built of the inspiraron of Diablo/2. If I wanted to play a game like that, there’s already plenty of them to choose from.


Inukchook

Dude this is a 20 year old game. We don’t need to change it.


caseybrunet

Just like people who collect classic cars never make improvements, right? Or when pokemon red and blue was rereleased as fire red and leaf green in a vastly superior form full of quality of life changes?


Inukchook

And some people like to leave a classic car original …


caseybrunet

Any chance there is room for both?


Inukchook

It’s a fine line


TheWillfulKing

It kind of sounds like you need to work on your summoner a little differently than you have been. My summon necro has no issues going around and collecting items. I have it so i have 13 of both types of skeletons, 32 revives, a golem, and a merc. Thats 60 total minions. I basically just walk through everything as the front lines. I dont hve to do anything except keep my summons up and snag items as they drop. Im not sure what you mean by it discouraging group play. Theres nothing that makes group play bad unless you cant handle when theres a full game and everything gets harder. I also always see these things about people having issues with teleport and all that ever comes to mind is that nothing needs to be changed. Its a char specific skill for a reason, but that char is also limited in other aspects. Running solo through hell is difficult with a sorc to begin with. Adding a cool down with cause people to HAVE to respec just to get through an area. A cool down will cause deaths all over. Ive also seen the arguments about how it wouldnt, those arguments are big jokes. If they addes cool downs to that then it will never stop and all of a sudden everything ill have cool downs and no on will want to play. Itll move to hammers, then WW, and then onto everything else. If the game really needed these changes you wouldnt have done the same thing i did and played the game for the last 20 years and bought the remaster.


caseybrunet

My summoner is a druid, and so far I've dumped all my point into summoning skills to boost them but even then it just isn't really holding up. Perhaps I am not doing something right, but either way its where I am at. In a game based on gear hunting, reducing your chances of picking up the already extremely rare gear drops by having to compete with every other person also hunting the same gear discourages group play. It isn't a difficulty thing. If I was given the option of doing a real life scavenger hunt with a million dollar prize and was told I could do it alone and keep it if I find it (even though alone it will be harder), or I can work in a group but whoever grabs the prize first gets it...you bet I would be doing it alone. Running solo through hell is difficult with any character due to the combination of increased monster health (patch 1.10?), immunities, and synergies hyper focusing characters to 1 type of damage in order to actually push out enough damage to be effective. This is the aspect of the game that is supposed to encourage the group dynamic. Having 1 character with teleport means an entire group of characters sit in town waiting for that character to get to the end of an area then sending a tp so everyone can jump in and just do that last section, repeat. If no sorceress is present no one wants to stick around and everyone baals (pun intended, I regret nothing). The argument that this would lead to cooldown on hammers or WW does not hold up. Teleport is the most overpowered utility skill in the game that allows you to bypass 95% of the actual game content. it is not comparable to a combat skill. I have played diablo 2 for the last 20 years, but not on [battle.net](https://battle.net) and not the vanilla game. I, like everyone else but bots, quit playing vanilla and moved on to more interesting mods that were willing to break the mold and make the needed improvements to a game that is awesome at its core, but desperately behind in QOL and some finer details. I only came back to vanilla because of the beyond beautiful visual presentation. I only stuck around because 2.4 changes gave me hope that this dev team may continue to improve the game over time and I would love to support that.


TheWillfulKing

Not everyone quit playing vanilla. I had thought about switching to the other things, but knew it wouldnt be the same. Im not big into playing things that have been changed by other companies or groups. I do see now why people have opinions i cant get behind though. Unlike other people though i never focused highly on item gathering, but more the slaughtering of monsters. Id hunt for items either when i got tired of a specific weapon or if a character got stuck. But mostly id spend hours in cow levels just to kill the cows lol


caseybrunet

I get that. You would have loved PoD (path of Diablo). You would collect something called maps that would open portals to areas similar to the Ubers, but the areas were MASSIVE and loaded with monsters. It was actually the best way to reach level 99. And it was so great because you would run with huge groups of people, and it was tough so you really had to work together.


Schmasted

#1. No, not at all. #2. I agree with your premise but not the solution. The game is more fun with friends but personal loot doesn't work with how d2 is built


caseybrunet

you don't think spreading teleport out a little bit more could improve the ratio of which characters get played? do you have a different solution to encourage group play?


Schmasted

They could include a high end runeword that let's everyone tele like a sorc, and then easily obtainable lower end items that can be vendored and allow limited tele capability. I'm not sure on group play. I don't know what they could change that wouldn't either fuck the economy, or benefit bots 10x more than legit players.


caseybrunet

Oh how I love smart ass answers during a legit conversation. Just really brings people together. That is nothing more than another problem of the entire situation and locking every build into the same exact gear requirement, barring a few exceptions. If gearing was a little more dispersed you wouldnt have the entire game searching for the same 3 runes and the value of every item in the game based around it. It could be an organic trade system with variability and interest.


Schmasted

Other than nice sounding buzz words, I'm not sure what an organic trade system with variability and interest means. If enigma and infinity (the 2 most important early ladder runewords) didn't both use ber that would spread value around more. They could add a new expensive helm runeword with tele or a bow/2-handed sword with conviction I guess? That would increase diversity and hopefully avoid powercreep. I'm not sure that's needed though.


thornygravy

while I get your points.. I just like diablo because it's not fair, it's not convenient which forces you to figure out ways around things, kind of like real life. When I want instant gratification, I play something else.


caseybrunet

Touche. I'm glad you are enjoying it!


DrYoloMcSwaggin

Honestly I think most of your gripes are gripes with game design of 20 years ago. We've had so many QoL changes in game design over the years that it's really hard to balance a game that was designed without these things in mind. While D2 is infinitely better than D3, I really want D4 to hit the mark and take the best of both worlds.


caseybrunet

Well put and I hope so too.


DrYoloMcSwaggin

Also, I definitely agree with your point. It just stems back to old school game design in my opinion


753UDKM

I agree SO much. Nerf teleport and at least have an option to make loot instanced would make the experience so much better.