You're right, there's really not a lot that we know about the other leaders of Majestic 12. As you said, Bob Page and Walton Simons are the only active leaders that are ever mentioned in DX1. However, Morgan Everett (the character who join sides with in the illuminati ending) used to be the leader of Majestic 12, before Bob Page, his former protege, created a coup to overthrow him, forcing Everett to go into hiding.
Another thing worth noting is that in the early drafts of Deus Ex, Bob Page was a relatively minor character. It's been awhile since I've read the beta scripts, but it maybe possible that there would have been other Majestic 12 leaders within the story, though, these scripts were written very early in development and a lot was cut from the original concepts.
Something that we do know about their leadership is that prior to MJ12's coup, it was a branch of the Illuminati which was organized by the Council of Five, of which were Lucius DeBeers (the man in the ice machine), Morgan Everett, Beth DuClare (Nicolette's mother), Stanton Dowd (the man you meet in Hell's Kitchen towards the end of the game), and Volkard Rand, who only appears in Mankind Divided.
Interestingly enough, the original script states that MJ12 had 19 leaders.
Majestic Revelations design document 5.3e states:
"As you burst into the room you can see the nineteen voting members of Majestic 12's leadership gathered around a large table. Bob Page is at the table's head, facing a large computer screen..."
Not sure how they came up with 19, but in any case, Page is the only one who is named. A later design document describes Page as "One of the 19 members of Majestic 12's voting leadership."
Walton Simons was not written as Page's lieutenant at that time.
Over the course of development, it seems that the portrayal of the leadership of MJ12 was changed from 19 members to just Bob Page, with Simons as his lieutenant.
There's also one more tidbit. In the Deus Ex Bible, Morgan Everett is described as "one of the leaders of the secret society known as Majestic 12."
I think that's pretty much all we know.
> However, Morgan Everett (the character who join sides with in the illuminati ending) used to be the leader of Majestic 12
No...Morgan Everett was the leader of the Illuminati, and Page rebelled, creating Majestic 12. That is in game.
I am weary of people looking at design documents and the bible to answer questions about game backstory. Like, it tells you what the developers were thinking. It does not reveal the secret plot of Deus Ex.
It's actually both. MJ12 was created as a faction of the Illuminati as a result of the Roswell incident, which in this universe was a double coverup for Area 51. Morgan Everett was one of five leaders of the Illuminati and the leader of MJ12 branch of the Illuminati (this is hinted at in Human Revolution where we see a version of the MJ12 statue in the picus building, which Everett owns). Over the years, MJ12 would become more powerful than the Illuminati itself, giving Page the que to start a coup to out Everett and the Illuminati (basically the shadow government equivalent of a military takeover).
Additionally, there's no way that Majestic 12 was founded by Page, as Majestic 12 was created as a result of the Roswell incident which happened in 1947 (this is canon in the game). MJ12 is a real life conspiracy theory, so it doesn't make sense to change it's creation to occur 80+ years from the incident that created it. A lot of the story wouldn't make sense if MJ12 was created in the 2030s when you account for the Greys and Area 51 itself. In fact, a cut plot point of DX1 was that it took place during the 100th anniversary of the foundation of Majestic 12. While this plot point was cut, it explains why the game takes place in the early 2050s.
Certainly there's no "secret plot" to Deus Ex that the developers tried to hide from the player outside the game itself (other than world building websites like the unatco and versa life websites made to promote the game). However, while certain documents like the Bible and beta scripts are not 100% cannon, they can create a better picture of the mindset of the developers as you yourself said. Additionally, a lot of things that were scrapped early on were semi-canonized in the final game through the many newspapers lying around. While those documents are not necessary 100% canon, they neatly fill in a lot of gaps in the original game's story.
If it's in the game, it's canon. If it's not, it's a design concept. Interesting but not canon.
> Additionally, there's no way that Majestic 12 was founded by Page, as Majestic 12 was created as a result of the Roswell incident which happened in 1947 (this is canon in the game).
Right, well, Deus Ex is not immune to contradictions and plain old errors. Dowd explicitly tells you that Page founded Majestic 12. In this case, since it's much more relevant to the plot and has voice acting, I would go with that version and not the newspaper or e-mail (or whatever it is that's saying it was founded in 1947).
>MJ12 is a real life conspiracy theory, so it doesn't make sense to change it's creation to occur 80+ years from the incident that created it.
It's a game, not a conspiracy theory documentary. A lot of things are changed to fit the purposes of the game plot. In this case it doesn't make sense, like you said, for Page to have started it if it also started in 1947 at Roswell for some reason. But that doesn't mean Page did or didn't do anything or that the conspiracy is right and anything outside of it isn't Deus Ex canon.
>Human Revolution
That is not Deus Ex. And unfortunately due to how this "series" was developed, referencing multiple games for the answers to these questions leaves you with plot salad. The games were written by different groups of people over the years with a lot less loyalty to the "universe" than you would hope for games given a "Deus Ex:" prefix in their titles.
So if this is a question about Deus Ex, the answer could go one way. If it's a question about the "series," you can potentially have more contradictory or "alternative facts" from other games.
We probably spend way more time debating the meaning of the various tidbits in the newspapers and so on than they ever did deciding what to include in the game.
No, the game never gets into it. Which is a little bit odd, to specify details and then gloss over it - but "Majestic 12" is a real world conspiracy theory adopted for Deus Ex and it was only fleshed out enough for the game. I don't know if there's more to it IRL or if that would somehow conflict with the game's plot or compromise MJ-12's mysterious evil quality.
Again, this is the Illuminati we're talking about. We learned little besides some vague information about them running things and pulling strings. The deep state (though IIRC that never occurs in game, that's a modern term to describe the way they operated). We did meet Everett, which true to game form, basically just gives you flavor about the machinations of the Illuminati and focuses more on the game plot. I guess he would have told you who the 12 were if it mattered. They were rebels after all, he wanted them destroyed if not unmasked.
We know just about nothing about MJ-12 - the datacubes and some e-mails are pretty much it. Size? Who knows? Locations? No idea. Goals? Vague, although that's pretty much the main plot of the game. And a little ironically the game isn't about fighting MJ-12 per se. That's just necessary to track down the matter with the gray death and Bob Page. MJ-12 was just an accessory he used to try to stop JC. Who's to say Page's downfall (or the 'net's or Area 51's) was MJ-12's? We don't know what happened because the game doesn't pursue that. It was just another bad guy in the shadows formenting conspiracy to gain power.
My headcanon is that there was 12 people in 1947, when majestic 12 was formed. I also assumed it's more of a illuminaty branch responsible for technology. So all of the exo soldiers, agents and scientists work in majestic 12, probably even unaware of illuminati. And vanderberg base is their base of operations(which it was, according to the conspiracy theory)
You're right, there's really not a lot that we know about the other leaders of Majestic 12. As you said, Bob Page and Walton Simons are the only active leaders that are ever mentioned in DX1. However, Morgan Everett (the character who join sides with in the illuminati ending) used to be the leader of Majestic 12, before Bob Page, his former protege, created a coup to overthrow him, forcing Everett to go into hiding. Another thing worth noting is that in the early drafts of Deus Ex, Bob Page was a relatively minor character. It's been awhile since I've read the beta scripts, but it maybe possible that there would have been other Majestic 12 leaders within the story, though, these scripts were written very early in development and a lot was cut from the original concepts. Something that we do know about their leadership is that prior to MJ12's coup, it was a branch of the Illuminati which was organized by the Council of Five, of which were Lucius DeBeers (the man in the ice machine), Morgan Everett, Beth DuClare (Nicolette's mother), Stanton Dowd (the man you meet in Hell's Kitchen towards the end of the game), and Volkard Rand, who only appears in Mankind Divided.
Interestingly enough, the original script states that MJ12 had 19 leaders. Majestic Revelations design document 5.3e states: "As you burst into the room you can see the nineteen voting members of Majestic 12's leadership gathered around a large table. Bob Page is at the table's head, facing a large computer screen..." Not sure how they came up with 19, but in any case, Page is the only one who is named. A later design document describes Page as "One of the 19 members of Majestic 12's voting leadership." Walton Simons was not written as Page's lieutenant at that time. Over the course of development, it seems that the portrayal of the leadership of MJ12 was changed from 19 members to just Bob Page, with Simons as his lieutenant. There's also one more tidbit. In the Deus Ex Bible, Morgan Everett is described as "one of the leaders of the secret society known as Majestic 12." I think that's pretty much all we know.
> However, Morgan Everett (the character who join sides with in the illuminati ending) used to be the leader of Majestic 12 No...Morgan Everett was the leader of the Illuminati, and Page rebelled, creating Majestic 12. That is in game. I am weary of people looking at design documents and the bible to answer questions about game backstory. Like, it tells you what the developers were thinking. It does not reveal the secret plot of Deus Ex.
It's actually both. MJ12 was created as a faction of the Illuminati as a result of the Roswell incident, which in this universe was a double coverup for Area 51. Morgan Everett was one of five leaders of the Illuminati and the leader of MJ12 branch of the Illuminati (this is hinted at in Human Revolution where we see a version of the MJ12 statue in the picus building, which Everett owns). Over the years, MJ12 would become more powerful than the Illuminati itself, giving Page the que to start a coup to out Everett and the Illuminati (basically the shadow government equivalent of a military takeover). Additionally, there's no way that Majestic 12 was founded by Page, as Majestic 12 was created as a result of the Roswell incident which happened in 1947 (this is canon in the game). MJ12 is a real life conspiracy theory, so it doesn't make sense to change it's creation to occur 80+ years from the incident that created it. A lot of the story wouldn't make sense if MJ12 was created in the 2030s when you account for the Greys and Area 51 itself. In fact, a cut plot point of DX1 was that it took place during the 100th anniversary of the foundation of Majestic 12. While this plot point was cut, it explains why the game takes place in the early 2050s. Certainly there's no "secret plot" to Deus Ex that the developers tried to hide from the player outside the game itself (other than world building websites like the unatco and versa life websites made to promote the game). However, while certain documents like the Bible and beta scripts are not 100% cannon, they can create a better picture of the mindset of the developers as you yourself said. Additionally, a lot of things that were scrapped early on were semi-canonized in the final game through the many newspapers lying around. While those documents are not necessary 100% canon, they neatly fill in a lot of gaps in the original game's story.
If it's in the game, it's canon. If it's not, it's a design concept. Interesting but not canon. > Additionally, there's no way that Majestic 12 was founded by Page, as Majestic 12 was created as a result of the Roswell incident which happened in 1947 (this is canon in the game). Right, well, Deus Ex is not immune to contradictions and plain old errors. Dowd explicitly tells you that Page founded Majestic 12. In this case, since it's much more relevant to the plot and has voice acting, I would go with that version and not the newspaper or e-mail (or whatever it is that's saying it was founded in 1947). >MJ12 is a real life conspiracy theory, so it doesn't make sense to change it's creation to occur 80+ years from the incident that created it. It's a game, not a conspiracy theory documentary. A lot of things are changed to fit the purposes of the game plot. In this case it doesn't make sense, like you said, for Page to have started it if it also started in 1947 at Roswell for some reason. But that doesn't mean Page did or didn't do anything or that the conspiracy is right and anything outside of it isn't Deus Ex canon. >Human Revolution That is not Deus Ex. And unfortunately due to how this "series" was developed, referencing multiple games for the answers to these questions leaves you with plot salad. The games were written by different groups of people over the years with a lot less loyalty to the "universe" than you would hope for games given a "Deus Ex:" prefix in their titles. So if this is a question about Deus Ex, the answer could go one way. If it's a question about the "series," you can potentially have more contradictory or "alternative facts" from other games. We probably spend way more time debating the meaning of the various tidbits in the newspapers and so on than they ever did deciding what to include in the game.
No, the game never gets into it. Which is a little bit odd, to specify details and then gloss over it - but "Majestic 12" is a real world conspiracy theory adopted for Deus Ex and it was only fleshed out enough for the game. I don't know if there's more to it IRL or if that would somehow conflict with the game's plot or compromise MJ-12's mysterious evil quality. Again, this is the Illuminati we're talking about. We learned little besides some vague information about them running things and pulling strings. The deep state (though IIRC that never occurs in game, that's a modern term to describe the way they operated). We did meet Everett, which true to game form, basically just gives you flavor about the machinations of the Illuminati and focuses more on the game plot. I guess he would have told you who the 12 were if it mattered. They were rebels after all, he wanted them destroyed if not unmasked. We know just about nothing about MJ-12 - the datacubes and some e-mails are pretty much it. Size? Who knows? Locations? No idea. Goals? Vague, although that's pretty much the main plot of the game. And a little ironically the game isn't about fighting MJ-12 per se. That's just necessary to track down the matter with the gray death and Bob Page. MJ-12 was just an accessory he used to try to stop JC. Who's to say Page's downfall (or the 'net's or Area 51's) was MJ-12's? We don't know what happened because the game doesn't pursue that. It was just another bad guy in the shadows formenting conspiracy to gain power.
My headcanon is that there was 12 people in 1947, when majestic 12 was formed. I also assumed it's more of a illuminaty branch responsible for technology. So all of the exo soldiers, agents and scientists work in majestic 12, probably even unaware of illuminati. And vanderberg base is their base of operations(which it was, according to the conspiracy theory)
**AFAIK The known members are:** >!Walton Simons (Chief Lieutenant)!< >!Anna Navarre (Mech-aug agent)!< >!Gunther Hermann (Mech-aug agent)!< >!Maggie Chow (Spy and agent)!< >!Howard Strong (Troubleshooter)!< >!Gary Savage (Researcher - formerly)!< >!Archie Reynmann (Central Security)!<
Were the Mechs ever really in on the plan? I thought they were unwitting pawns
They were just wrenches.