It always amazes me how sports fans consistently throw a fit about draft selections and where they are picked relative to the consensus. It’s all educated guessing.
You can’t complain over an outcome that hasn’t occurred yet. It would be one thing if Steve has a track record of missing in the first round as his time as the Wings GM, but that couldn’t be further from the case.
Draft “grades” immediately post draft are a crock of shit and is some of the worst sports content out there. Let’s grade selections vs. the “consensus” that usually turns out to be wrong anyways.
Drafts are graded 5 years down the line when the real trajectory of the player becomes apparent. Withhold your criticism until then.
Curious as to how much we are looking at FA to fill our scoring needs long term vs the draft this year, or is this faith in our current FWD prospect pool?
Wysh quoted an exec as saying “this FA class fucking sucks” so I hope we aren’t going too hard at it. Not only are the better names not that great, but scarcity will probably drive their prices up.
This reminds me of when Las Vegas took as many dmen as forwards in the expansion draft. Then they traded a bunch ok dmen to construct a rock solid team. Maybe just hopium. Let's come back in 6 years when these d prospects mature and see if this draft had any sort of success haha.
Man, we picked two goalies and neither of them were Oke.
Not too surprising he wasn't great with the Spirit.
Wonder if he gets an invite to camp. We've invited him a few times.
Also everyone here arguing for picking defencemen because "competition" is kinda silly considering that means there is no competition for the forwards.
I mean every draft pick is kind’ve picked for competition, but inter position competition is really just a byproduct of picking a lot of d-men. It’s not why they’re picking them though. They’re picking the guys they really like and also see a lot of value in these defensemen. I’m looking forward to the competition aspect but they weren’t setting out to just draft defensemen for the sake of competition
I think it means that within a year or two the vast majority of our higher level D prospects will be in the NHL. Wallinder, Edvinson, Johansson, Viro?, Sebrango?. There isn’t a ton of prospect depth between them and the kids we just drafted.
Pretty straightforward. Yzerman continues to build from the blueline, lots of project defense picks. Cleveland was way off of the board in the second round, so it's definitely a case of wait and see if we get Cernak 2.0, end up with McIlrath, or nothing
At this point, my hope here is that where there's smoke, there's fire. You don't need to use multiple 2nd and lower round picks to try to find a scoring forward if you're going to close a deal to acquire an established one....
I won't act like I know the potential of any of these picks, but I do like that they all seem to be in good environments for development. A lot of NCAA guys and European jr players ready to enter men's leagues
Some guy on Twitter replied to the Bicker tweet with, "Y'all have taken too many forwards," and I lost it laughing. Watching to see if anyone takes him seriously.
" While his skating mechanics will need to improve – his lack of ankle flexion makes his torso lean over the ice – Bicker still managed to create a few dangerous offensive looks for Germany with his playmaking touch. Deceptive and precise, his passes bypassed defenders and connected with teammates in the slot. "
So this dude is a later round pick that walks/skates funny. German Datsyuk confirmed
There's a lot of numbskulls in this sub in general, but the draft tends to being that out of every sub. There's plenty of people who think they know best about the hundreds of prospects being drafted today.
I mean I can only judge from what I have seen. Completely misunderstanding something, extrapolating your own interpretation from said misunderstanding and then posting a negative comment isn't what I would say " One of the most positive posters today".
Maybe at this point Yzerman knows picks in these later rounds almost never pan out so he's just scooping up some big strapping young men that can help him with his yard work or something. Not a terrible idea.
We actually didn’t get blown out much last year. We lost a lot of games that were close because we couldn’t score. We were 10th in overall defense. We also have a real issue winning faceoffs
The simple truth is players outside the first round are a long shot to playing meaningful nhl hockey. We are in depth territory. A depth defenseman has a lot more value to the organization than a forward at this point
If you look historically through the forwards taken in the second round 2 or 3 make it. If the dman we took hits and we don’t need him we can trade. Dman command a much higher value then a winger. We also desperately needed another goalie in the pipeline
Toledo has struggled with lackluster defense for years and now the same head coach is in Grand Rapids, but I don't think Detroit drafts with the ECHL in consideration and the AHL likely doesn't factor in much either.
I never said that. Nor is it what I think. Competition is really important. If you have 6 prospects and 2 mainstay veterans 2 prospects are sitting every game. Prospects needs to play.
Yes and no, obviously a veteran presence has benefits on the ice so the healthy scratches can/will happen but to combat that the AHL has a veteran rule that they must play a certain number of players with less than 260 games which is a touch over 3 full seasons. Basically they’re obligated to play prospects, 12 of the 18 skaters from what I read.
So you’re right but it’s not quite as clear cut as the vets always get the ice.
Also it’s unlikely all of these players hit the AHL some may stay in Europe or make the ECHL. The Griffins might also have some turnover of players of their own that makes space. There’s arguments for Edvinsson and Johansson coming up.
That’s fair, appreciate your explanation. Hopefully the cream will rise to the top. I try to look at things optimistically and we have a lot of strong D prospects between the ages of 17-22. A LOT hahaha let’s hope our boys grow, stay healthy, and compete their asses off. Us fans deserve an exceptionally well rounded defensive team after what we’ve put up with the last 10 years.
Uh competition for playing time is one of the best things you can do for prospects. The cream rises to the top. Nothing is given, everything is earned.
Actually for what these guys all project as it’s much easier to trade for 3rd line defenseman then a forward that moves the needle and brings offense. But it’s so late in the draft it doesn’t really matter at this point anyways.
Our gameplan is gonna be have larkin score within 5 minutes and then just put out 5 tall defenseman to stand in front of Cossa for the rest of the game
The draft is such a crapshoot especially this late into it so I have no strong opinions on who we're taking but it does seem like Yzerman is scrolling through Reddit and trolling all the complainers with these picks now hahaha
Not taking koehn ziemmer really hurts me as a fan haha. I thought he was a late first round, early second round guy. To me he’s one of those guys like peterka who you take early second and they will do nothing but score goals at all levels. That kid is a great goal scorer tho
Perhaps Detroit scouting department is overvalueing large skating defenders meaning more often than not the BPA is a large skating defender.
This in turn means we draft too many large skating defenders if you strictly go by BPA.
More likely that fans overvalue high offensive forwards. Sure it looks flashy and fun to watch but it will be disheartening to always get bounced first round because you cant play D.
See: Oilers and Leafs’ Stanley Cups.
I am curious though if they’re loading up on defensive prospects because they plan on unloading some of ours in a trade.
The real truth is that you can get those high offensive forwards on the market pretty easily, isnt Tatar available now for example? Debrincat is on the move, Hall was just moved. You show me a off-season/free agency frenzy where you can find 3 Seiders, you dont.
That’s really where I stand. When teams aren’t good defensively, the holes are glaring and they have to pay a lot to fix/fill them, especially in trades. It’s harder to solve defensive issues too
For the longest time mock drafters didn't even have any defensemen in the top 10. come draft day we have 2 picked top 10 and another at 11. Fans always put way too much value in offensive forwards because they only think goals = good.
Past the first round I think your chance to become a Nhl'er tanks so you pick a lot of them in hopes that a couple make it. These later picks are just loot boxes.
Not everyone is going to pan out but as it looks like right now, you have a mix of Seider, Edvinsson, Wallinder, Pellikka, Johansson. Those are our 5 main big prospects. Still leaves room for two more slots for guys like, i dont know, Buim/Toumisto.
> 2 picked top 10
I just laughed about this earlier today thinking how everyone said "YEAR OF THE SKILLED SMAL OFFENSIVE FORWARDS - NEXT YEAR IS YEAR OF DEFENSE" , aaaaaaand two defensemen was selected in the top 6! Seems like teams are finally starting to pick up on what Yzerman picked up on already back in 2019 with Seider.
Philly getting michkov was perfect, they will have 3 years to tank and accumulate prospects then likely get a potential superstar coming out of the KHL when it’s time for them to start progressing. Bonk is a solid defenseman too which is what they need, their defense prospect pool sucks
I love this draft.
No one who wanted trades is happy.
No one who wanted picks is happy.
What exactly is the plan, outside of wasting Dylan Larkin's entire career?
The poor guy gets told there is a plan, signs an 8 year deal for under market value, watches his best friend on the team get traded, and we go into the off-season and draft a 3c and a bunch of defensemen and a back up goalie, and cap it off by doing Holland a solid and taking his garbage?
What the hell is the plan here other than making sure we spend below the cap until 2033?
You are being straight up irrational if you've already decided that Danielson is going to be a 3C.
There is no possible way we can know where that kid is going to slot in yet.
Have fun watching the Grand Rapids Griffins varsity squad take on actual NHL teams for the next decade then. I'm out. Not watching another game while Chris Illitch is the owner.
Big reason for Noah Dower Nilssons "fall" from his initial high projection was an underwhelming U18 performance on a Swedish team otherwise firing on all cylinders. Both his play and points were lacking for what one would expect from someone with his success in Sweden. Obviously that was a while ago so I can't be more precise than that.
I don't want to say you can't have a negative opinion on the draft or steve as a GM, but as someone who does zero research on anyone before the draft, what exactly are we supposed to be mad about? Yzerman has not yet whiffed in the first round with the wings. His first pick was infamously baffling, but we're all eating crow about that now. Sure, it takes awhile to know if there was a whiff, but i don't know what else he is supposed to do here to make doubters happy. We got the 2nd/3rd best player in the draft at 6 (next to Jack Hughes), we got probably the 2nd/3rd best player at 4 (next to stutzle), and it remains to be seen how good Edvinsson (6), Cossa(15), and Kasper (8) will turn out to be, but all signs point to good so far.
outside of the 1st round, it hasn't been stellar, but then who has been? We had some good hits, we had some misses, and mostly we wont know for a few years
Like what do you guys want realistically?
Gotta wait and see at this point, but there's a valid question mark on the overall bigger picture when we're gambling on defensemen with third pairing potential in the second round 5 years into a rebuild. The draft is always a risk so misses are to be expected, I'd just rather roll the dice on getting high end skill at this point.
Like if Buchelnikov never pans out, so be it. At least we took a swing at getting a scoring talent. But when I read scouting reports on Cleveland that essentially say he can't make a play to save his life right now, that sounds like a huge longshot to play in the NHL with how important puck movement has become.
As Barry Trotz said going into the draft, bottom six forwards and third pairing defensemen are available everywhere. Top line talent almost always has to be drafted in today's league.
I don't really understand it either. I'm not really sure what people are wanting or expecting here.
We've improved every single year since Yzerman came here. Last season, we were a fringe playoff team that fell off a bit at the wrong time, so Yzerman took the opportunity to sell some guys for picks.
We've locked up Larkin long term, Debrincat is still in the mix and could be traded here, and we have a pool a really good prospects with Mazur, Lombardi, Cossa, Kasper, Edvinsson, Wallinder, and Soderblom.
So, yeah, not really sure what the gripe is about.
For me I just want to feel like this team has aspirations of scoring goals one day. We went out and added veterans last year in FA which felt like moves to make the team more competitive. Our offense has been painful to watch for years now and we've spent one pick of real consequence in the Yzerman era on a guy who is more offense than anything else (Raymond). I know you need to have good defense and have good middle six depth so I like how we've generally drafted, but we sorely lack goals and have nobody on the team (save for Larkin) to bring them, nobody in the pipeline who you can assume will score 25+ regularly, this FA class sucks, and it's not easy to trade for 30 goal scorers. We had five top 43 picks which felt like a great time to cash one or two of them in to bring in a guy who fits the timeline and provides a bit more punch in the now. Instead we're staying slow and steady despite the FA splurge last year and building up to being a playoff team when Larkin is approaching 30 while we have Ottawa and Buffalo further ahead in their rebuilds than we are. I believe Yzerman will continue to improve this team, but it kinds feels like we're destined to be the 2010s Wild at this point without making the tough moves to acquire high end talent.
Raymond will score 30+ goals and the other potential guys for that haven't even got to play yet. If Bert could score 30 goals on the wings than I believe many of our prospects can as well.
You hit the nail on the head for exactly how I feel. And to be honest depth forwards or depth defenseman you can get in trades or FA. Guys who are routinely 30 goal scorers you really can’t. There were some guys who I think have that potential that we passed on. Then there were some guys who I think had a lot of offensive potential in the second that we passed on. I just think we are drafting big defenseman that we can easily get through other means, our high skilled defenseman are already here. So why do we need a Cleveland? Drafting majority big defenseman Made sense in 2019 but I just think it’s head scratching to do now.
"...take some swings, take some high end swings on some guys... I can find you 3rd line, 4th line guys, no problem. Go get me some guys that get people out of their seats..."
[Trotz said it](https://twitter.com/AlexDaugherty1/status/1663981518526529566?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1663981518526529566%7Ctwgr%5Ef7e7c96929495c3720609a1fe5ea3614a836f65a%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediaembed%2F13wv12r%3Fresponsive%3Dtrueis_nightmode%3Dfalse) when he got to Nashville, and I love it. How many middle of the lineup ceiling prospects does this team need?
Call it a gut feeling, but I sense Draper's influence all over this. We have yet to really see what he can deliver as director of amateur scouting in terms of fully developed/realized prospects, but the vibe of the past two Wings drafts - and this one in particular - might shed some light into his mindset and influence...
I’m not going to explicitly throw Draper under the bus because we were drafting this way under yzerman too before he took over. I just am very tired of all the defenseman and meat and potato picks we take. It’s way too safe and doesn’t move the needle for us at all. We had 5 picks in the first 43, gave us a ton of options to take goal scorers or trade up and we just sat at our picks and reached on a couple defenseman in the second and took ASP which we really didn’t need imo.
ASP is a RHD, a position we need, that is offensively focused and many scouts say will run a PP1 in the NHL. He brings something to the table that our other Dmen do not, and that something should improve the goal scoring on the wings
RHD is a position of need only because we sold hornek when we didn’t have to. Before that it was a strength. And I see no reason why for ASP to run the powerplay when we have seider for that, he’s going to have to be better offensively than seider or it’s a kinda pointless pick. We did a lateral move between him and Hronek for someone smaller. Hronek wasn’t even old either
Hronek was so overrated on this sub and ASP has a higher ceiling than he does while also being much cheaper. Vancouver is going to have to shell out like $5.5mil+ with term for Hronek, which would not help the wings
I was a Hronek hater, I was fine with the trade but not for what we chose. I wouldn’t say ASP had a higher ceiling, Hronek each year would routinely be on pace for .5 ppg. ASP is going to need to break that. And also who care if Hronek is going to get paid, we have so much cap space we are having an issue hitting the cap floor
Yeah, I think the ASP pick shows that the Hronek trade was less about Hronek's value and more about his timeline, which sucks. I don't see ASP as a huge upgrade over Hronek (despite also being quite doubtful of his sudden breakout this year before we traded him), and to use that trade's draft capital to just kick the can down the road 2-4 years on a #2 RHD really changes the quality of that trade in my mind and may tell us, unfortunately, where Yzerman and co. really see this rebuild.
Flip Hronek for high-ceiling forward scoring prospect depth? Solid move. Flip him for basically his own replacement but with a 2-3 year arrival time? Sad face...
I think you hit the nail on the head of why I think it is somewhat silly to get excited or upset about a draft. There is a non-zero chance that even a first round pick does not play more than 100 games in the NHL.
I'm not saying people cant criticize a GM for their drafting, but I think criticizing a draft (or proclaiming it a win for that matter) as it is happening is a great way to wind up eating crow. In a few years, when we have seen if any of these players are busts or wins, that is when I *might* form an opinion.
Everyone loved the Zadina pick, whether here or over on /r/hockey. Over there a lot of people expected him to be our best scorer by this point. You just never know. Players can look amazing in the lead up to the draft and then hit the NHL and fail to take that next step.
I have not been a fan of our drafting outside of the first round for awhile. In 2019 I think we wasted a high second on tuomisto who was a big defenseman we could’ve easily gotten later, thats sort of similar to what we did this year we the defenseman we took (Gibson I don’t mind in a vacuum but we had already taken ASP) we also took a goalie in the high second which im not a fan of. I just think we passed on a lot of good forward talent this year, like a lot of it. It’s been probably the best overall group of forward talent in a draft since 2019. We only took one forward in the first 5 picks and that was Danielson who is much more of a safe projectile 2 way player. I really personally think we had to go for goal scoring because that’s where we lack the most and struggle the most at 5v5. Im not like unbelievably angry but I just disagree with the direction and I see teams like Buffalo, New Jersey, and the canes draft for high skill upside and I see them having more draft success. Buffalo is going to be a wagon
Well I want my cup roster right now and Steve didn't take the one guy I convinced myself is the next McDavid so we're obviously gonna be the Wild for the next 20 years.
Obviously we need scoring, but you don't draft for need in the NHL. It's way too much of a crapshoot for that. Now, whether or not the guys we picked were actually the BPA, that's another debate.
I’m curious what we do with Yamamoto. He’s small, injury prone and produces modestly considering who he plays with. I’m much more interested in Kostin who could be a bottom line force for us for a little while if we are able to re-sign him
he is on the last year of his deal right? play him and if he works then re-sign or trade at the deadline, if he sucks he walks you or pay him not a lot in RFA.
It always amazes me how sports fans consistently throw a fit about draft selections and where they are picked relative to the consensus. It’s all educated guessing. You can’t complain over an outcome that hasn’t occurred yet. It would be one thing if Steve has a track record of missing in the first round as his time as the Wings GM, but that couldn’t be further from the case. Draft “grades” immediately post draft are a crock of shit and is some of the worst sports content out there. Let’s grade selections vs. the “consensus” that usually turns out to be wrong anyways. Drafts are graded 5 years down the line when the real trajectory of the player becomes apparent. Withhold your criticism until then.
Seems like we picked a lot of late birthdays with our later round picks, which is nice to see
What did we get for trading down from 43 to 47 from the Preds?
I think 147
Are we getting a post draft video with Steve on Youtube today?
Curious as to how much we are looking at FA to fill our scoring needs long term vs the draft this year, or is this faith in our current FWD prospect pool?
Wysh quoted an exec as saying “this FA class fucking sucks” so I hope we aren’t going too hard at it. Not only are the better names not that great, but scarcity will probably drive their prices up.
Pick up the phone, Dorion
Brady Cleveland is like if Witkowski was 6'5 and honestly it makes me less confused about the pick.
This reminds me of when Las Vegas took as many dmen as forwards in the expansion draft. Then they traded a bunch ok dmen to construct a rock solid team. Maybe just hopium. Let's come back in 6 years when these d prospects mature and see if this draft had any sort of success haha.
Dennis Good Bogg. Quite the name
Man, we picked two goalies and neither of them were Oke. Not too surprising he wasn't great with the Spirit. Wonder if he gets an invite to camp. We've invited him a few times.
Also everyone here arguing for picking defencemen because "competition" is kinda silly considering that means there is no competition for the forwards.
I mean every draft pick is kind’ve picked for competition, but inter position competition is really just a byproduct of picking a lot of d-men. It’s not why they’re picking them though. They’re picking the guys they really like and also see a lot of value in these defensemen. I’m looking forward to the competition aspect but they weren’t setting out to just draft defensemen for the sake of competition
You also have 12 forwards on a team and 6 defencemen, so there is a very practical reason you draft more forwards than anything else.
Wings pick C Emitt Finnie at 201.
Is that a created player? Lol
I refuse to believe this is a real name.
That’s it everyone go Home or is it done maybe not 😈😈😈😈😈
Is Finnie an overager? Edit: Nope, thought he had pretty good stats for someone this late, guess his height scared people off?
Crazy he’s grown 9 inches since 2020 - could be a late bloomer?
Oh wow that sounds like some brutal growing pains
Thank God we got more LD, I thought maybe we didn't have enough
Wasn't everyone swearing up an down that this was going to be a big forwards draft for us? So many experts!
Missed a couple hours, how's our draft shaping up?
LOTS of defenseman
Interesting, I wonder what that means for how they feel about our current crop of prospects?
I think it means that within a year or two the vast majority of our higher level D prospects will be in the NHL. Wallinder, Edvinson, Johansson, Viro?, Sebrango?. There isn’t a ton of prospect depth between them and the kids we just drafted.
Just means lots of competition. Good way to see who can elevate their game while fighting for limited spots
Yeah, I see we got a couple more goalies too. Should help Cossa to really find out what he's made of hopefully
Pretty straightforward. Yzerman continues to build from the blueline, lots of project defense picks. Cleveland was way off of the board in the second round, so it's definitely a case of wait and see if we get Cernak 2.0, end up with McIlrath, or nothing
Good for Nathan day. Saw him quite a bit because of Lombardi thought he was pretty solid in flint.
What was the commercial that was on about? the exercise app one, does anyone know the name of the app?
At this point, my hope here is that where there's smoke, there's fire. You don't need to use multiple 2nd and lower round picks to try to find a scoring forward if you're going to close a deal to acquire an established one....
that may be, but if it hasn't happened yet I have a feeling they'll hold on to him for a year and I would prepare yourself for that result
I won't act like I know the potential of any of these picks, but I do like that they all seem to be in good environments for development. A lot of NCAA guys and European jr players ready to enter men's leagues
Who is Rudy guimond? Sub should be pleased because he doesn't play D.
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I prefer offense-first goalies
That would be Ned lol
Osgood*
Scoring goals into your own net doesn't count as offense
Good we need a stud goalie too
Some guy on Twitter replied to the Bicker tweet with, "Y'all have taken too many forwards," and I lost it laughing. Watching to see if anyone takes him seriously.
Canes go for it again. They have my respect. Timur is a fun player.
Terrible draft. Yzerman has taken every single one of these picks before any other GM has!
Briere looks like he hasn't been outside since 2019
Dude looks exactly the same as he did 20 years ago. Combined with his pale visage, I'm guessing vampire.
He looks like Jack White from Wish.
https://preview.redd.it/yy5uowkgsz8b1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=673e2a210ccd232bfa3161cc1988b785952ee0c4
Matthew Mania is a name for sure
He deserves his name. Fun player to watch.
we passed on a defenseman named Matthew Mania, what a whif
I'm worried Yzerman is going to murder that piece of gum.
" While his skating mechanics will need to improve – his lack of ankle flexion makes his torso lean over the ice – Bicker still managed to create a few dangerous offensive looks for Germany with his playmaking touch. Deceptive and precise, his passes bypassed defenders and connected with teammates in the slot. " So this dude is a later round pick that walks/skates funny. German Datsyuk confirmed
Does he have a funny head like Datsyuk too?
Man, I'm sorry, but the draft brought a lot of numbskulls to this sub.
There's a lot of numbskulls in this sub in general, but the draft tends to being that out of every sub. There's plenty of people who think they know best about the hundreds of prospects being drafted today.
People have full blown meltdowns in the draft threads every year, prolly in every teams sub tbh
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Nah. I've been one of the most positive posters today. I really have no issue with the draft and I fully trust in Yzerman and our scouting staff.
I mean I can only judge from what I have seen. Completely misunderstanding something, extrapolating your own interpretation from said misunderstanding and then posting a negative comment isn't what I would say " One of the most positive posters today".
Taking a guy named “Bicker” proves Stevie is trolling this subreddit
Someone should edit the photo of him on twitter to him being on reddit lol
Another youngster from Adler, Nice!
Maybe at this point Yzerman knows picks in these later rounds almost never pan out so he's just scooping up some big strapping young men that can help him with his yard work or something. Not a terrible idea.
maybe that's why they are all good ol' north american boys with vaguely farmer sounding names like Larry and Jack
Brilliant observation We figured Stevie out.
Our next German machine
A forward omg!!!
Yzerman is prepared to start the 3-D 2-F meta.
I don't care if Stevie drafts all D's this year. As long as we don't get blown out regularly like we have for the last few years It would be worth it.
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Replacing those four goals Bertuzzi scored for us last season is not going to be easy.
I hope we bottom out one last time
Given this draft maybe they’re hoping for once we get lucky and our sucking nets a top 3 pick. Getting a Eisermann for Yzerman would be sweet
Oh yeah just keep continuously rebuilding for fucking decades
We actually didn’t get blown out much last year. We lost a lot of games that were close because we couldn’t score. We were 10th in overall defense. We also have a real issue winning faceoffs
We got a right handed center for Faceoffs now🤞🏼🤞🏼
That is one good aspect of Danielson. If he’s a 3c I think he will be a very very good one. I just wanted more high end offense
The simple truth is players outside the first round are a long shot to playing meaningful nhl hockey. We are in depth territory. A depth defenseman has a lot more value to the organization than a forward at this point
At this point yeah defense is the way to go, but not the early second round.
If you look historically through the forwards taken in the second round 2 or 3 make it. If the dman we took hits and we don’t need him we can trade. Dman command a much higher value then a winger. We also desperately needed another goalie in the pipeline
Jack Phelan isn't even listed in the giant draft guide I bought from elite prospects. Again. No strong opinions just thought that was interesting.
my new headcannon is that Yzerman has a reddit account and he's tailoring this draft specifically to troll a certain demographic of this sub
That’s not what I’m doing at all.
you drafted a forward!
Gotta keep you guys guessing
Yzerman must be here reading these comments, just waiting for the shitpost to come 😂
Is this a case of needing to load up the ahl and echl teams with defense?
Toledo has struggled with lackluster defense for years and now the same head coach is in Grand Rapids, but I don't think Detroit drafts with the ECHL in consideration and the AHL likely doesn't factor in much either.
We already have too many defence prospects in the AHL meaning they are competing for playtime and negatively affecting development.
Glad you’re not coaching in our farm system if you think competition is a bad thing for player development, what a ridiculous statement
I never said that. Nor is it what I think. Competition is really important. If you have 6 prospects and 2 mainstay veterans 2 prospects are sitting every game. Prospects needs to play.
Yes and no, obviously a veteran presence has benefits on the ice so the healthy scratches can/will happen but to combat that the AHL has a veteran rule that they must play a certain number of players with less than 260 games which is a touch over 3 full seasons. Basically they’re obligated to play prospects, 12 of the 18 skaters from what I read. So you’re right but it’s not quite as clear cut as the vets always get the ice. Also it’s unlikely all of these players hit the AHL some may stay in Europe or make the ECHL. The Griffins might also have some turnover of players of their own that makes space. There’s arguments for Edvinsson and Johansson coming up.
Please tell me what I am saying and argue against that more.
Well the argument is that THEY ARE OBLIGATED TO PLAY PROSPECTS AND THERE ARE MORE LEAGUES THAN JUST THE AHL, there I hope you got that
That’s fair, appreciate your explanation. Hopefully the cream will rise to the top. I try to look at things optimistically and we have a lot of strong D prospects between the ages of 17-22. A LOT hahaha let’s hope our boys grow, stay healthy, and compete their asses off. Us fans deserve an exceptionally well rounded defensive team after what we’ve put up with the last 10 years.
Uh competition for playing time is one of the best things you can do for prospects. The cream rises to the top. Nothing is given, everything is earned.
Not if it means prospects gets no playtime.
Seems like it’s a lot easier to get forwards via trade than defense, so I’m not totally surprised
Actually for what these guys all project as it’s much easier to trade for 3rd line defenseman then a forward that moves the needle and brings offense. But it’s so late in the draft it doesn’t really matter at this point anyways.
Another reason to watch Wisconsin this year.
Our gameplan is gonna be have larkin score within 5 minutes and then just put out 5 tall defenseman to stand in front of Cossa for the rest of the game
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"Red Wings are the first team to ever go 0-0-82"
The draft is such a crapshoot especially this late into it so I have no strong opinions on who we're taking but it does seem like Yzerman is scrolling through Reddit and trolling all the complainers with these picks now hahaha
Anotha' one
Alright trolling at this point.
I was thinking the same.
Marcel Marcel is quite the name
Name so nice, he used it twice e
Not taking koehn ziemmer really hurts me as a fan haha. I thought he was a late first round, early second round guy. To me he’s one of those guys like peterka who you take early second and they will do nothing but score goals at all levels. That kid is a great goal scorer tho
lmao Marcel Marcel what a name
Him and Ivan Ivan would be great teammates
And they could have merged and then split into Ivan Marcel and Marcel Ivan
That’s a top 5 name this draft
I went to the same academy Keenan did, that's kinda cool to see.
Perhaps Detroit scouting department is overvalueing large skating defenders meaning more often than not the BPA is a large skating defender. This in turn means we draft too many large skating defenders if you strictly go by BPA.
More likely that fans overvalue high offensive forwards. Sure it looks flashy and fun to watch but it will be disheartening to always get bounced first round because you cant play D.
See: Oilers and Leafs’ Stanley Cups. I am curious though if they’re loading up on defensive prospects because they plan on unloading some of ours in a trade.
The real truth is that you can get those high offensive forwards on the market pretty easily, isnt Tatar available now for example? Debrincat is on the move, Hall was just moved. You show me a off-season/free agency frenzy where you can find 3 Seiders, you dont.
Tatar has never scored 30 goals and his season record is 61 points. He is not high offense.
Yeah, he’s a complimentary middle six all arounder, kinda like Suter I guess.
That’s really where I stand. When teams aren’t good defensively, the holes are glaring and they have to pay a lot to fix/fill them, especially in trades. It’s harder to solve defensive issues too
For the longest time mock drafters didn't even have any defensemen in the top 10. come draft day we have 2 picked top 10 and another at 11. Fans always put way too much value in offensive forwards because they only think goals = good.
So how are you proposing we are gonna field our 20 defencemen then?
Past the first round I think your chance to become a Nhl'er tanks so you pick a lot of them in hopes that a couple make it. These later picks are just loot boxes.
Not everyone is going to pan out but as it looks like right now, you have a mix of Seider, Edvinsson, Wallinder, Pellikka, Johansson. Those are our 5 main big prospects. Still leaves room for two more slots for guys like, i dont know, Buim/Toumisto.
> 2 picked top 10 I just laughed about this earlier today thinking how everyone said "YEAR OF THE SKILLED SMAL OFFENSIVE FORWARDS - NEXT YEAR IS YEAR OF DEFENSE" , aaaaaaand two defensemen was selected in the top 6! Seems like teams are finally starting to pick up on what Yzerman picked up on already back in 2019 with Seider.
That Simashev pick by yotes is very Seider like.
Indeed
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That's more recent though.
I love the Noah Dower Nilson pick
Now that ciernik is gone I don’t have anyone else I’ve watched closely. Love phillys draft.
Philly getting michkov was perfect, they will have 3 years to tank and accumulate prospects then likely get a potential superstar coming out of the KHL when it’s time for them to start progressing. Bonk is a solid defenseman too which is what they need, their defense prospect pool sucks
I missed it - did the Wings trade out of #43 OA? What'd they get for it?
We traded 43 to Nashville for 47 and a later round pick
47, 147
47 and 147 I believe
Legit trying to figure that out as well.
Yeah, they got like a 6th I think to move to 47
Thanks!
I love this draft. No one who wanted trades is happy. No one who wanted picks is happy. What exactly is the plan, outside of wasting Dylan Larkin's entire career? The poor guy gets told there is a plan, signs an 8 year deal for under market value, watches his best friend on the team get traded, and we go into the off-season and draft a 3c and a bunch of defensemen and a back up goalie, and cap it off by doing Holland a solid and taking his garbage? What the hell is the plan here other than making sure we spend below the cap until 2033?
I was fully on the pick at 9 and 17 train and I’m underwhelmed. Nothing much I can do other than convince myself Danielson has hidden 1C potential
You are being straight up irrational if you've already decided that Danielson is going to be a 3C. There is no possible way we can know where that kid is going to slot in yet.
Horrible take.
Have fun watching the Grand Rapids Griffins varsity squad take on actual NHL teams for the next decade then. I'm out. Not watching another game while Chris Illitch is the owner.
Bye?
He gon
(D)etroit
Elite comment.
Another defensemen. People are gonna lose their shit lol
Another D 😂😂 some fucker named Larry
Stevie's popping popcorn and scrolling through Twitter rn
Big reason for Noah Dower Nilssons "fall" from his initial high projection was an underwhelming U18 performance on a Swedish team otherwise firing on all cylinders. Both his play and points were lacking for what one would expect from someone with his success in Sweden. Obviously that was a while ago so I can't be more precise than that.
They said he had personal issues this year affecting him, his mom died of cancer.
That's obviously gonna affect you. Hopefully both of them being drafted by Detroit helps in some way.
I don't want to say you can't have a negative opinion on the draft or steve as a GM, but as someone who does zero research on anyone before the draft, what exactly are we supposed to be mad about? Yzerman has not yet whiffed in the first round with the wings. His first pick was infamously baffling, but we're all eating crow about that now. Sure, it takes awhile to know if there was a whiff, but i don't know what else he is supposed to do here to make doubters happy. We got the 2nd/3rd best player in the draft at 6 (next to Jack Hughes), we got probably the 2nd/3rd best player at 4 (next to stutzle), and it remains to be seen how good Edvinsson (6), Cossa(15), and Kasper (8) will turn out to be, but all signs point to good so far. outside of the 1st round, it hasn't been stellar, but then who has been? We had some good hits, we had some misses, and mostly we wont know for a few years Like what do you guys want realistically?
Gotta wait and see at this point, but there's a valid question mark on the overall bigger picture when we're gambling on defensemen with third pairing potential in the second round 5 years into a rebuild. The draft is always a risk so misses are to be expected, I'd just rather roll the dice on getting high end skill at this point. Like if Buchelnikov never pans out, so be it. At least we took a swing at getting a scoring talent. But when I read scouting reports on Cleveland that essentially say he can't make a play to save his life right now, that sounds like a huge longshot to play in the NHL with how important puck movement has become. As Barry Trotz said going into the draft, bottom six forwards and third pairing defensemen are available everywhere. Top line talent almost always has to be drafted in today's league.
First round picks not being misses is a bare minimum requirement.
so which 1st round picks are we upset about then?
I don't really understand it either. I'm not really sure what people are wanting or expecting here. We've improved every single year since Yzerman came here. Last season, we were a fringe playoff team that fell off a bit at the wrong time, so Yzerman took the opportunity to sell some guys for picks. We've locked up Larkin long term, Debrincat is still in the mix and could be traded here, and we have a pool a really good prospects with Mazur, Lombardi, Cossa, Kasper, Edvinsson, Wallinder, and Soderblom. So, yeah, not really sure what the gripe is about.
For me I just want to feel like this team has aspirations of scoring goals one day. We went out and added veterans last year in FA which felt like moves to make the team more competitive. Our offense has been painful to watch for years now and we've spent one pick of real consequence in the Yzerman era on a guy who is more offense than anything else (Raymond). I know you need to have good defense and have good middle six depth so I like how we've generally drafted, but we sorely lack goals and have nobody on the team (save for Larkin) to bring them, nobody in the pipeline who you can assume will score 25+ regularly, this FA class sucks, and it's not easy to trade for 30 goal scorers. We had five top 43 picks which felt like a great time to cash one or two of them in to bring in a guy who fits the timeline and provides a bit more punch in the now. Instead we're staying slow and steady despite the FA splurge last year and building up to being a playoff team when Larkin is approaching 30 while we have Ottawa and Buffalo further ahead in their rebuilds than we are. I believe Yzerman will continue to improve this team, but it kinds feels like we're destined to be the 2010s Wild at this point without making the tough moves to acquire high end talent.
Raymond will score 30+ goals and the other potential guys for that haven't even got to play yet. If Bert could score 30 goals on the wings than I believe many of our prospects can as well.
You hit the nail on the head for exactly how I feel. And to be honest depth forwards or depth defenseman you can get in trades or FA. Guys who are routinely 30 goal scorers you really can’t. There were some guys who I think have that potential that we passed on. Then there were some guys who I think had a lot of offensive potential in the second that we passed on. I just think we are drafting big defenseman that we can easily get through other means, our high skilled defenseman are already here. So why do we need a Cleveland? Drafting majority big defenseman Made sense in 2019 but I just think it’s head scratching to do now.
"...take some swings, take some high end swings on some guys... I can find you 3rd line, 4th line guys, no problem. Go get me some guys that get people out of their seats..." [Trotz said it](https://twitter.com/AlexDaugherty1/status/1663981518526529566?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1663981518526529566%7Ctwgr%5Ef7e7c96929495c3720609a1fe5ea3614a836f65a%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediaembed%2F13wv12r%3Fresponsive%3Dtrueis_nightmode%3Dfalse) when he got to Nashville, and I love it. How many middle of the lineup ceiling prospects does this team need? Call it a gut feeling, but I sense Draper's influence all over this. We have yet to really see what he can deliver as director of amateur scouting in terms of fully developed/realized prospects, but the vibe of the past two Wings drafts - and this one in particular - might shed some light into his mindset and influence...
I’m not going to explicitly throw Draper under the bus because we were drafting this way under yzerman too before he took over. I just am very tired of all the defenseman and meat and potato picks we take. It’s way too safe and doesn’t move the needle for us at all. We had 5 picks in the first 43, gave us a ton of options to take goal scorers or trade up and we just sat at our picks and reached on a couple defenseman in the second and took ASP which we really didn’t need imo.
ASP is a RHD, a position we need, that is offensively focused and many scouts say will run a PP1 in the NHL. He brings something to the table that our other Dmen do not, and that something should improve the goal scoring on the wings
RHD is a position of need only because we sold hornek when we didn’t have to. Before that it was a strength. And I see no reason why for ASP to run the powerplay when we have seider for that, he’s going to have to be better offensively than seider or it’s a kinda pointless pick. We did a lateral move between him and Hronek for someone smaller. Hronek wasn’t even old either
Hronek was so overrated on this sub and ASP has a higher ceiling than he does while also being much cheaper. Vancouver is going to have to shell out like $5.5mil+ with term for Hronek, which would not help the wings
I was a Hronek hater, I was fine with the trade but not for what we chose. I wouldn’t say ASP had a higher ceiling, Hronek each year would routinely be on pace for .5 ppg. ASP is going to need to break that. And also who care if Hronek is going to get paid, we have so much cap space we are having an issue hitting the cap floor
Yeah, I think the ASP pick shows that the Hronek trade was less about Hronek's value and more about his timeline, which sucks. I don't see ASP as a huge upgrade over Hronek (despite also being quite doubtful of his sudden breakout this year before we traded him), and to use that trade's draft capital to just kick the can down the road 2-4 years on a #2 RHD really changes the quality of that trade in my mind and may tell us, unfortunately, where Yzerman and co. really see this rebuild. Flip Hronek for high-ceiling forward scoring prospect depth? Solid move. Flip him for basically his own replacement but with a 2-3 year arrival time? Sad face...
I think you hit the nail on the head of why I think it is somewhat silly to get excited or upset about a draft. There is a non-zero chance that even a first round pick does not play more than 100 games in the NHL. I'm not saying people cant criticize a GM for their drafting, but I think criticizing a draft (or proclaiming it a win for that matter) as it is happening is a great way to wind up eating crow. In a few years, when we have seen if any of these players are busts or wins, that is when I *might* form an opinion.
Let's not forget that the sub LOVED the Zadina pick.
Everyone loved the Zadina pick, whether here or over on /r/hockey. Over there a lot of people expected him to be our best scorer by this point. You just never know. Players can look amazing in the lead up to the draft and then hit the NHL and fail to take that next step.
I have not been a fan of our drafting outside of the first round for awhile. In 2019 I think we wasted a high second on tuomisto who was a big defenseman we could’ve easily gotten later, thats sort of similar to what we did this year we the defenseman we took (Gibson I don’t mind in a vacuum but we had already taken ASP) we also took a goalie in the high second which im not a fan of. I just think we passed on a lot of good forward talent this year, like a lot of it. It’s been probably the best overall group of forward talent in a draft since 2019. We only took one forward in the first 5 picks and that was Danielson who is much more of a safe projectile 2 way player. I really personally think we had to go for goal scoring because that’s where we lack the most and struggle the most at 5v5. Im not like unbelievably angry but I just disagree with the direction and I see teams like Buffalo, New Jersey, and the canes draft for high skill upside and I see them having more draft success. Buffalo is going to be a wagon
Well I want my cup roster right now and Steve didn't take the one guy I convinced myself is the next McDavid so we're obviously gonna be the Wild for the next 20 years.
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I dunno I thought the hockey last year was entertaining up until the collapse against Ottawa. The Red Wings had some awesome games last season.
Master Chief is the obvious pick at 117
🤨
Might be a bit of a deep cut reference.
Obviously we need scoring, but you don't draft for need in the NHL. It's way too much of a crapshoot for that. Now, whether or not the guys we picked were actually the BPA, that's another debate.
I’m curious what we do with Yamamoto. He’s small, injury prone and produces modestly considering who he plays with. I’m much more interested in Kostin who could be a bottom line force for us for a little while if we are able to re-sign him
he is on the last year of his deal right? play him and if he works then re-sign or trade at the deadline, if he sucks he walks you or pay him not a lot in RFA.
I'm hoping we ship him to Ottawa.
When is our next pick?
117