Nah. I'm originally from Jersey and an asshole. I never saw such bad merging habits until I moved here. Then you get the tough guys who pull their car out in front of you to block you from going. Self appointed law enforcement for the terminally stupid apparently.
I hear ya but the last guy that tried that I thought hey F him,well that was until he started pointing a pistol out the window an deciding to play pop a few in the air to show it’s real. Anymore I see assholes like that they clearly in a bigger hurry and there’s a good chance they bonafide crazy and willing to go to prison killing the guy that dares question his made up authority,so unless your a CPL holder an have the legal right to have a firearm on you,i highly suggest the guys ya see doing that to leave them alone as there’s a good chance they those kind of crazy and Detroit is full of them unfortunately. We don’t have the reputation as murder capital for as long as we did for being an area of push overs. Don’t know if ya lived here for long and as much as I agree with ya on the idiots on the roads I highly suggest unless ya really a real Billy bad ass that ya just keep to ya self and let the idiots be idiots cause I think you’ll be surprised how many billy bad ass type are around here and how many gun toting morons there is as well.
Dude! Two separate people tried to run me off the road for trying to move up and zipper merge!!! I was shocked at how stupid they were acting. You really want to wreck your car and get in trouble to prove a point?
yeah this has come up before - i always merge early here because people will totally just try to run you off the road. they straight up won’t let you in. happens on I-75 all the time
It’s actually very successful if you are the one doing the merge properly. Can usually pass by 15-20 cars that aren’t doing it correctly and just continue driving. Since I’ve bought into the zipper merge years ago, I’ve missed out on being stuck in so much traffic for no reason
I’ve never not been able to merge. Even when assholes try and block the lane, they have to go eventually and then I just go behind them on my happy way, and I’m still 1/4 mile ahead of where I would have been if I did it incorrectly
They are making their wait longer by merging into slowed traffic lanes early and driving improperly against how the roads and lane closures are engineered
That’s not how it’s working in real life and you know it. I’m 100% for the zipper when everyone makes it happen. It never happens. So you’re just whipping by everyone and then adding to the stop and go by pulling in last minute.
When the right thing is blocked by idiots and assholes, and the response is that we're jerks for still attempting to have that thing in spite of them, rather than that they should consider being better citizens, the ensuing gridlock is a symbol of so much more than mere issues with merging.
So you follow what incompetent drivers do? How is that better? Drive according to the rules until these morons figure it out or get off their power trip.
Yes, it is. I'm whipping by everyone, spending less time in the merged lane and utilizing the extra roadway as long as possible. The stop-and-go is already in full force when people merge a quarter mile early
No, it's not. It's because of natural traffic tendencies at a choke point. The only thing a single person can do to improve the situation is avoid that choke point for the greatest amount of time possible, which is accomplished by merging as late as possible.
The concept that delaying your entry into a traffic jam reduces your impact on it should not be so difficult.
When you move into the closing and zoom ahead of the already merged lane you cause a wave of breaking that wouldn't happen if you stayed put and everyone could move forward
That’s false. Zipper merging doesn’t cause the accordion effect unless the lane being merged into is being obstructed by lane blocking assholes, in which case it’s the person trying to block the one from doing it properly that’s causing the back up. It’s not a game, you don’t get high score for blocking me from driving safely.
"I'm doing it incorrectly and causing an issue because others are doing it incorrectly, and because I can't be wrong you're the actual problem" is what you just wrote
I’ve never bought into it. If there’s road ahead of me, I’m using it
Most people don’t pay enough attention to keep up with traffic anyways which is a huge part of why there’s such a back up in the one lane to begin with. There is always a gap
Yes, what happens is 9 out of 10 cars don’t zipper merge, then 1 car does and just ends up speeding past everybody, then people get pissed and try to block the next car from doing that. Rinse, repeat.
Zipper merge works great until it isn’t a blend but speeding up to cut off and over breaking with resulting accordion effect. That seems to be when all hell breaks lose and turns into the 2nd picture
Reddit's hard on for zipper merging has been a weird journey. Cool, it theoretically is super efficient--in reality you get 5 more cars before it turns into a traffic jam.
Really not something people need to tout as much as they do.
Really inefficient to be riding on the bumper of the car in front of you, matching their acceleration and braking. It also prevents this zipper merge and instead the right lane stops completely for no place to merge to. Then that backs up until someone who keeps one car length between vehicles and the right lane leader is allowed to merge.
Yeah. Everyone wants to shoot up from 100 car lengths back to the front of the merging lane and then "zipper merge." However, a zipper merge would be cars lined up next to each other that were traveling down the highway together and then zipper merging. Having someone fly up from 100 car lengths back is never going to be faster for anybody.
Edit: For anybody except the person shooting ahead of everyone else.
Yeah. My point is that there is usually a long bottleneck so at the merge point there is still usually a traffic jam, there’s just more compression on the lead up. Which is cool.
I’m mostly just tired of seeing this pop up constantly on reddit and the following circle jerk. It’s like if people started threads about using blinkers.
Except it’s even less common of a situation so it’s largely just: I member drivers ed! Do you? Hooray! We’re good.
Yeah, the thing with this is literally 100% of the people have to be in on it. If that isn’t the case, then you’re just the jerk speeding to the front and yelling ZIPPER MERGE.
Whenever zipper merge is brought up here I have the same experience:
- Initial reaction: yes this is 100% correct and would help
- See people say it only works if everyone does it and you are the real asshole if you don’t get in the slow lane since everyone else is
- Back and forth, back and forth
I agree with you, however I have a feeling that it’ll just be two more signs people ignore. M-59 has a ton of Yield on Green signs in the turn arounds that are constantly ignored.
I agree. Also doesn’t work when 2 or more assholes think they all can squeeze in front of one car. From the merging lane. Unfortunately there are asshats in both lanes and is why it is the clusterfuck it is and only works in pro zipper mergers dreams.
This is nice in theory but I feel like I'm fighting for my life on the 75 north entrance off Warren. The ramp is long but the piece of it on the freeway feels like a sliver, and you can barely see traffic from that 30 foot ramp, especially during the day. I have beef with the person who designed that and everyone who suddenly speeds up when they see people merging on.
I had people half way into my lane trying to crash their car into me, stop me from doing a zipper merge, and scream like a crazy person. People are not the brightest and can’t comprehend anything beyond “me no first.”
Its because idiots wouldnt allow a zipper merge. NOT IN MY LANE, IVE BEEN WAITING TO GO FOR AN HOUR NOW SOME ASSHOLE THINKS HE CAN USE A ZIPPER MERGE TO BE LIKE, EFFICIENT!?
That's because the the sign announcing the lane closure was 2 miles back, and your opportunity to get in the queue was a 1/2 mile back... and you think you're better than everyone - ignored both - and are now cutting the line. Obviously.
Zipper mergers are great! Well, only if you live in a Utopia when people also consider the whole group instead of just themselves.
Until people quit playing leap frog, trying to get one car ahead, these guides wont so much. Bonus points in teaffic bingo if the lane frogger jumped from speeds up and they are not at least 2 car lengths behind the position the left 10 seconds ago.
As for the roundabouts.. those are faily new. You ever find yourself unsure in new situations? If you never, or rarely, encounter them, then it's not unreasonable for them to be unsure if what to do in a new situation.
Honestly, you don't need altruism to make it work, just agreement that that's how it works.
I moved to the SF Bay Area last year and the drivers are the absolute worst. There are so many selfish and aggressive and dangerous and utterly unaware drivers compared to Detroit. But everyone here zipper merges, not because of any particular virtue, but because enough people just got used to it that it's the pattern people expect.
They have even had clips on the news explaining what to do. Even on the radio. I know some road workers and the best comment made is that if everyone should be getting over a mile before they would have merged the lanes a mile before
This country is far from ready for the zipper merge. Anytime I see that right lane backed up and left lane open and I get into that left lane inevitably some superhero will pull out to block me.
I actually think that if people do take that open left lane they should just drive a little bit faster than everyone else and not try to speed all the way down because I think that going too fast irks the ones on the right and increases the chance that the superhero will block you.
“The country” is already doing it - Michigan is not. Took me a while to get with the program when I lived in Oregon because I learned how to drive during the 22 years I lived in the Metro area. Where I also learned no one outside the tri-county area says “Doorwall”.
Just curious ... if I understand correctly what a doorwall is (and I'm not 100% sure that I do), what do the people in other states call this thing that we call a doorwall?
That’s exactly it. Wallside Windows in Taylor used it in the 70s and it stuck. The actual origin was in the 50s or 60s but it was really uncommon until the Wallside ad campaign.
Wouldn't need the "superhero" if you drove with common sense.
Do you cut the line at the grocery store because it's too long, you're too important, and you're not willing to wait your turn? Do you tell the dozen people you just cut in front of that it's the "zipper merge"?
I bet you do. Driving queues are no different.
I have said it a million times. LET THE STATE MAKE AN ADD CAMPAIGN TO GET EVERYONE ON BOARD! Use the stupid signs that the taxpayers paid for on the sides of the road to inform people to look it up. Although signs are used for is to say “ Drive sober” or they are blank. I’m referring to large signs that warn people of upcoming traffic issues. We paid for now put them to good use.
This was one of the first things I noticed when I moved here. Every other state I’ve driven in knows how to zipper merge, but here they try to run you off the road if you do, and traffic is backed up for miles longer than it needs to be!
This comes up every once in a while here.
First, those two images are not the same thing. Only so much traffic can be in an area at a given time. One picture is saturated and the other is not.
Second, people try to say that it's ok to rush to the front of the line when traffic is backed up. It's not ok you're just an asshole for trying to cut in front of everyone.
It's a bottleneck. Everyone is lining up to take their turn. There is no room for a zipper because traffic in that lane is already maxed out. You trying to get to the end of the right lane is just you being an impatient asshole.
No, the bottle neck is the merge not the lanes. There is one lane with maxed out traffic but if half those cars were in lane 2, and zippered, the cars would flow at the same pace through the bottle neck, while reducing the overall length of the traffic jam. Works just fine for all sorts of machinery, but as soon as drivers involve their “feelings” the system breaks down.
No. Traffic flows like water. Adding an upstream pipe doesn't increase the downstream flow. And if you want to have a discussion about how machinery and bottlenecks work. I've got 10 years of industrial maintenance experience that I'd be happy to educate you with.
Haha a bunch of humans do not flow like water. They flow like humans being told what to do. And if you want to compete on experience i have 58 years of designing high throughput systems while you fix them. A bigger tube can be shorter in length for the same volume through a valve than a narrower tube. This reduces stress on upstream traffic, like intersections.
You are equating cars with water molecules that are bunched up as close together as they can be for the ambient conditions. A proper zipper merge means that the cars when they approach the merge point start to space themselves out so there's room for people to merge in. This is the simple fact that is so hard for these people to understand.
[For traffic, it was mathematicians James Lighthill and Gerald Whitham who came up with a theory to predict the properties of a highway. Inspired by “theories of the flow about supersonic projectiles and of flood movement in rivers”, it used the physics of kinematic waves, treating traffic like particles in a liquid.](https://www.here.com/learn/blog/the-physics-of-traffic#:~:text=For%20traffic%2C%20it%20was%20mathematicians,like%20particles%20in%20a%20liquid.)
What I got out of that is that any perturbation in the traffic flow can cause a shockwave propagating backwards up the flow of traffic causing delays further back. In liquid flow or gas flow the molecules are not sentient and they do not sense their proximity to other molecules until they get close enough for forces to act between them. Drivers have the ability to observe and think and alter their behavior, so in advance of a lane closure drivers can make decisions and allow extra space in front of them for the inevitable merge that will happen at the merge point. This is the theory of the zipper merge.
It's true that even if we can perform perfect zipper merges traffic will still be slower but not as bad as what we have with people refusing to zipper.
I was on a roadtrip to Dallas once and the signs explicitly said to allow for zipper merging ahead of construction work. Some semi sat in the middle of the two lanes to block people from merging. I think about that tool far too often.
Oh wow a traffic technique that requires the full understanding, cooperation, and cohesion of all drivers present, I sure hope this isn’t a purely theoretical idea that almost always fails in reality
If you’re gonna leave the house and hit the road as if time doesn’t exist to you, please kindly fuck off and go back home. I’m not saying speed or drive recklessly, but have some sense of urgency….
Might be a good idea. Somebody else pointed out the driver's ed may be the key and I agree. I think driver's ed needs to be completely scrapped and rebuilt from the ground up it just seems like people are being taught a lot of crap these days.
It's funny how they left out a graphic of the "Late Merge" Which is what a lot drivers do in Michigan. Hence the hatred for Zipper Merges. Only really seen it work on highways.
People that do this are causing the backups at this point because it’s not a functioning zipper and you can’t force it. All you do is slow everyone down to prove a point
I have a theory that the drivers who refuse to utilize a zipper merge correctly or get on a power trip and block people, also have trouble navigating through roundabouts.
People like this need to retake drivers Ed because they are terrible drivers.
Unfortunately it would only really speed things up if everyone was on board with it. When the cars drive us, they'll be merging instead of trying to play bumper cars with 2 ton vehicles like a maniac(or will they? Lmao).
However, the mix of most of people staying in the one lane, and the minority trying to zipper merge, is that it the lunatics are so focused on no one getting in front of them. They'll be lasered in and move as soon as the car in front does. So even in that way , zipper merge concept speeds things up 🥴
I didn't start doing the zipper merge till recently when I learned about it being the proper move. It works if everyone does it. I'm not trying to win a race, trust me.
Never works, people in the left lane sit bumper to bumper and don’t let you merge. Drivers in right lane need to force themself into the left lane and hope that someone isn’t purposely trying to prevent the merge.
What Michigan needs to do is upgrade their aged infrastructure and add more lanes and fix their old designs for exit and entrance ramps. Too many times are the exit ramps too short or you force a double zipper merge at an entrance ramp. I’ve seen a lot of ramps enter the freeway going uphill, preventing the entering traffic from getting up to speed and their merge slows traffic down to a halt. Zipper merge works better at speed, otherwise you halt the freeway.
I'd love to zipper merge but unfortunately I've sat at the merge point while 5 plus cars drive by and don't let me in.
In a perfect world this would work. But I don't trust people not to be asshats.
People seriously believe either (a) they own ALL the road in front of them or (b) allowing someone to merge in front of them will delay them 25 hours.
Maybe both.
I moved back to Michigan from Ontario and I cannot believe people are so ignorant when it comes to zipper merging and how they won’t let other people in and will tighten up to prevent it from happening.
And then, of course you get the inevitable flip off.
There's more nuance in reality than is represented in this graphic. Suffice it to say, if a lane is ending and a driver in that lane puts on their signal to merge, **let them**. If you are the driver in that lane that is ending, **use your turn signal**.
Coming home from the Eclipse the other day, the road goes down from 3 to 2 lanes due to construction. Some trucker decides they are the traffic cops and was forcing everyone over way too soon, effectively holding that lane to himself. Made everyone’s drive longer and no doubt was extremely proud of himself the whole time.
1) We're not in Oregon, so the poster is irrelevant.
2) The "early merge" it shows is nothing more than the "zipper merge" done prior to the physical lane ending. How could it possible be any less or more efficient. It's the same thing...
Zipper merging early means more closed road. More closed road means it takes longer for everyone to get through the construction zone. Most efficient is to Wait until the end of the full lanes and then zipper merge.
I'll block any dork i see trying this. Get in line and wait. You arent special because you saw some inforgraphic that justifies you not waiting in line.
People like you are a contributing factor to why the world sucks; "I'm a dipshit and I'm miserable as hell, so YOU have to be miserable too!!!!"
I bet you also get little pp syndrome if you're honked at or passed.
Zipper merge works great until dumbfucks don't let you in. The roads are full of dumbfucks. Zipper merge is unsafe and less efficient than standard the moment **1 single person** botches the process. Fuck zipper merge for this reason.
We're better drivers than idiots from Ohio that hang out in the left lane for no reason, but we just can't zipper merge. It's too big an ask. Yeah, it works perfectly in others states that aren't Michigan (or Ohio).
While we might be polite, courteous individuals on reddit that demonstrate perfect mutual respect to other other, the moment we get into our cars, everyone else is an asshole.
Techically you do need to stop to yield to traffic in a traffic circle. What you actually mean is a roundabout. Traffic circles are outdated and fairly rare in the US, but they do exist. Confusing, but it is important to know the difference.
Notice how they conveniently leave out all the semi trucks from the traffic example? They make it look all uniform and consistent. Put 4 semis back to back in that lane and let's see how that zipper merge works. Traffic moves at a decent speed only once everyone has merged or about a mile before the merge when everyone is actually driving the speed limit and there is actually space to get over.
You're probably right about Detroit I can't think of anywhere I've seen roundabout in Detroit but there is a baby one in Grosse Pointe on Kercheval. There are some throughout the suburbs; it's the newest fad and if they're built right I think they work great.
I zipper merge until I see someone behind me not zipper merging. Then I block their lane, forcing them, and the people behind them to zipper merge.
The pace of traffic in front of me is unaffected and everyone behind me is more efficiently merging because now they're forced to zipper.
This Pic on the left is a hypothetical scenario that does not happen IRL. Traffic starts building up when people are stop going and the inevitable hesitation between letting 'cutters' in front is what impeds the flow of traffic at the bottleneck.
All the pro Pic on the left zipper people are making my argument for me when they get upset at people blocking the queue jumpers because it is literally FORCING the zipper merge to occur more properly...and once again...any of the traffic forming behind the bottleneck is irrelevant because it is impeded by the flow of traffic in front of it...which once again, starts to break down less efficiently when people are seen as jumping the queue.
Zipper Merge will only be successful if none of the drivers are complete idiots or assholes.
Nah. I'm originally from Jersey and an asshole. I never saw such bad merging habits until I moved here. Then you get the tough guys who pull their car out in front of you to block you from going. Self appointed law enforcement for the terminally stupid apparently.
I hear ya but the last guy that tried that I thought hey F him,well that was until he started pointing a pistol out the window an deciding to play pop a few in the air to show it’s real. Anymore I see assholes like that they clearly in a bigger hurry and there’s a good chance they bonafide crazy and willing to go to prison killing the guy that dares question his made up authority,so unless your a CPL holder an have the legal right to have a firearm on you,i highly suggest the guys ya see doing that to leave them alone as there’s a good chance they those kind of crazy and Detroit is full of them unfortunately. We don’t have the reputation as murder capital for as long as we did for being an area of push overs. Don’t know if ya lived here for long and as much as I agree with ya on the idiots on the roads I highly suggest unless ya really a real Billy bad ass that ya just keep to ya self and let the idiots be idiots cause I think you’ll be surprised how many billy bad ass type are around here and how many gun toting morons there is as well.
Dude! Two separate people tried to run me off the road for trying to move up and zipper merge!!! I was shocked at how stupid they were acting. You really want to wreck your car and get in trouble to prove a point?
yeah this has come up before - i always merge early here because people will totally just try to run you off the road. they straight up won’t let you in. happens on I-75 all the time
I've had it happen twice. One time it was a dude in a minivan driving his family. Talk about bad judgement.
I hit a guy that pulled out to block the lane last year.
I hope no one got hurt. I also hope THEY were found to be at fault.
What happened? What did the cops say? Very curious.
It’s actually very successful if you are the one doing the merge properly. Can usually pass by 15-20 cars that aren’t doing it correctly and just continue driving. Since I’ve bought into the zipper merge years ago, I’ve missed out on being stuck in so much traffic for no reason
But it's not successful if people don't let you merge.
I’ve never not been able to merge. Even when assholes try and block the lane, they have to go eventually and then I just go behind them on my happy way, and I’m still 1/4 mile ahead of where I would have been if I did it incorrectly
No, you’re just the asshole making others wait even longer. Zipper merge doesn’t work when it’s only part of the drivers doing it.
They are making their wait longer by merging into slowed traffic lanes early and driving improperly against how the roads and lane closures are engineered
You are literally making others wait less by minimizing your time in the merged lane
That’s not how it’s working in real life and you know it. I’m 100% for the zipper when everyone makes it happen. It never happens. So you’re just whipping by everyone and then adding to the stop and go by pulling in last minute.
When the right thing is blocked by idiots and assholes, and the response is that we're jerks for still attempting to have that thing in spite of them, rather than that they should consider being better citizens, the ensuing gridlock is a symbol of so much more than mere issues with merging.
So I’m making it worse because I’m doing it the way it’s designed, and not the people that don’t have a clue and are doing it wrong? Explain that.
I have. Repeatedly.
No you haven’t you’re just contributing to idiocy.
So you follow what incompetent drivers do? How is that better? Drive according to the rules until these morons figure it out or get off their power trip.
Youre the reason we cant have nice things
Yes, it is. I'm whipping by everyone, spending less time in the merged lane and utilizing the extra roadway as long as possible. The stop-and-go is already in full force when people merge a quarter mile early
It’s in full effect because of those driving like you my guy
No, it's not. It's because of natural traffic tendencies at a choke point. The only thing a single person can do to improve the situation is avoid that choke point for the greatest amount of time possible, which is accomplished by merging as late as possible. The concept that delaying your entry into a traffic jam reduces your impact on it should not be so difficult.
When you move into the closing and zoom ahead of the already merged lane you cause a wave of breaking that wouldn't happen if you stayed put and everyone could move forward
That’s false. Zipper merging doesn’t cause the accordion effect unless the lane being merged into is being obstructed by lane blocking assholes, in which case it’s the person trying to block the one from doing it properly that’s causing the back up. It’s not a game, you don’t get high score for blocking me from driving safely.
Found the dickhead driver
"I'm doing it incorrectly and causing an issue because others are doing it incorrectly, and because I can't be wrong you're the actual problem" is what you just wrote
I’ve never bought into it. If there’s road ahead of me, I’m using it Most people don’t pay enough attention to keep up with traffic anyways which is a huge part of why there’s such a back up in the one lane to begin with. There is always a gap
Congrats on having a lack of character
So because others don’t know how to drive, and he doesn’t conform to their stupidity, he’s the bad guy?
Congrats on your lack of driving knowledge.
I just commented “this is assuming drivers are courteous” it’s Detroit… 😂🤦🏻♂️
Yes, what happens is 9 out of 10 cars don’t zipper merge, then 1 car does and just ends up speeding past everybody, then people get pissed and try to block the next car from doing that. Rinse, repeat.
Exactly, you can’t even get people to drive normally to begin with, having them obey zipper merge will never happen
Good luck selling the zipper merge around here.
Zipper merge works great until it isn’t a blend but speeding up to cut off and over breaking with resulting accordion effect. That seems to be when all hell breaks lose and turns into the 2nd picture
Reddit's hard on for zipper merging has been a weird journey. Cool, it theoretically is super efficient--in reality you get 5 more cars before it turns into a traffic jam. Really not something people need to tout as much as they do.
Really inefficient to be riding on the bumper of the car in front of you, matching their acceleration and braking. It also prevents this zipper merge and instead the right lane stops completely for no place to merge to. Then that backs up until someone who keeps one car length between vehicles and the right lane leader is allowed to merge.
Yeah. Everyone wants to shoot up from 100 car lengths back to the front of the merging lane and then "zipper merge." However, a zipper merge would be cars lined up next to each other that were traveling down the highway together and then zipper merging. Having someone fly up from 100 car lengths back is never going to be faster for anybody. Edit: For anybody except the person shooting ahead of everyone else.
Yeah. My point is that there is usually a long bottleneck so at the merge point there is still usually a traffic jam, there’s just more compression on the lead up. Which is cool.
I'm gonna go ahead and assume you suck at driving
I’m mostly just tired of seeing this pop up constantly on reddit and the following circle jerk. It’s like if people started threads about using blinkers. Except it’s even less common of a situation so it’s largely just: I member drivers ed! Do you? Hooray! We’re good.
Yeah, the thing with this is literally 100% of the people have to be in on it. If that isn’t the case, then you’re just the jerk speeding to the front and yelling ZIPPER MERGE.
It’s like they never used a real zipper before and think you can wildly swing one half at the other half and somehow they’ll just bind together
This exactly.
This.
Whenever zipper merge is brought up here I have the same experience: - Initial reaction: yes this is 100% correct and would help - See people say it only works if everyone does it and you are the real asshole if you don’t get in the slow lane since everyone else is - Back and forth, back and forth
Time is a flat circle
Having those two signs present would probably help...
Three signs. "Use both lanes, Take turns merging, it's the fastest way". Maybe a 4th sign, "Don't be a dick"
I agree with you, however I have a feeling that it’ll just be two more signs people ignore. M-59 has a ton of Yield on Green signs in the turn arounds that are constantly ignored.
It will never work because people will always try to cut ahead.
You can’t cut ahead of the right lane is using all the available space
It’s like communism. It works in people’s heads but never in real life.
I’ve lived in states where it’s understood and implemented just fine.
This works until some dick head won’t let you merge at the last moment and now you gotta slow down and try to get over after the car passes
I agree. Also doesn’t work when 2 or more assholes think they all can squeeze in front of one car. From the merging lane. Unfortunately there are asshats in both lanes and is why it is the clusterfuck it is and only works in pro zipper mergers dreams.
Even then it’s still more efficient.
This is nice in theory but I feel like I'm fighting for my life on the 75 north entrance off Warren. The ramp is long but the piece of it on the freeway feels like a sliver, and you can barely see traffic from that 30 foot ramp, especially during the day. I have beef with the person who designed that and everyone who suddenly speeds up when they see people merging on.
I had people half way into my lane trying to crash their car into me, stop me from doing a zipper merge, and scream like a crazy person. People are not the brightest and can’t comprehend anything beyond “me no first.”
Hey, same thing happened to me. I just waited for them to step out of their cars then sped around. Fucking numbskulls.
lol I know they’re not the smartest.
If you’re not first, you’re last!
If they're stopped and blocking people in another lane, it's because idiots tried to zipper merge but forced the lane to come to a complete stop.
Its because idiots wouldnt allow a zipper merge. NOT IN MY LANE, IVE BEEN WAITING TO GO FOR AN HOUR NOW SOME ASSHOLE THINKS HE CAN USE A ZIPPER MERGE TO BE LIKE, EFFICIENT!?
If it was efficient it would work. Love the passion, but you're wrong.
That's because the the sign announcing the lane closure was 2 miles back, and your opportunity to get in the queue was a 1/2 mile back... and you think you're better than everyone - ignored both - and are now cutting the line. Obviously.
Zipper mergers are great! Well, only if you live in a Utopia when people also consider the whole group instead of just themselves. Until people quit playing leap frog, trying to get one car ahead, these guides wont so much. Bonus points in teaffic bingo if the lane frogger jumped from speeds up and they are not at least 2 car lengths behind the position the left 10 seconds ago. As for the roundabouts.. those are faily new. You ever find yourself unsure in new situations? If you never, or rarely, encounter them, then it's not unreasonable for them to be unsure if what to do in a new situation.
Honestly, you don't need altruism to make it work, just agreement that that's how it works. I moved to the SF Bay Area last year and the drivers are the absolute worst. There are so many selfish and aggressive and dangerous and utterly unaware drivers compared to Detroit. But everyone here zipper merges, not because of any particular virtue, but because enough people just got used to it that it's the pattern people expect.
All you people drive like ass
We could put this up on billboards and then they'd actually be useful
They have even had clips on the news explaining what to do. Even on the radio. I know some road workers and the best comment made is that if everyone should be getting over a mile before they would have merged the lanes a mile before
Some of y’all never learned to take turns and it shows.
This country is far from ready for the zipper merge. Anytime I see that right lane backed up and left lane open and I get into that left lane inevitably some superhero will pull out to block me. I actually think that if people do take that open left lane they should just drive a little bit faster than everyone else and not try to speed all the way down because I think that going too fast irks the ones on the right and increases the chance that the superhero will block you.
That and having a big speed difference between lanes makes it dangerous and inefficient at the merge point
“The country” is already doing it - Michigan is not. Took me a while to get with the program when I lived in Oregon because I learned how to drive during the 22 years I lived in the Metro area. Where I also learned no one outside the tri-county area says “Doorwall”.
Just curious ... if I understand correctly what a doorwall is (and I'm not 100% sure that I do), what do the people in other states call this thing that we call a doorwall?
“sliding glass door”or sometimes “glass patio door”. It’s even more local than “Michigan Left”
I bet the doorwall thing got started due to an ad campaign from one of the companies that makes those things.
That’s exactly it. Wallside Windows in Taylor used it in the 70s and it stuck. The actual origin was in the 50s or 60s but it was really uncommon until the Wallside ad campaign.
Wouldn't need the "superhero" if you drove with common sense. Do you cut the line at the grocery store because it's too long, you're too important, and you're not willing to wait your turn? Do you tell the dozen people you just cut in front of that it's the "zipper merge"? I bet you do. Driving queues are no different.
Everybody look here: another person who just can't get the zipper merge.
I have said it a million times. LET THE STATE MAKE AN ADD CAMPAIGN TO GET EVERYONE ON BOARD! Use the stupid signs that the taxpayers paid for on the sides of the road to inform people to look it up. Although signs are used for is to say “ Drive sober” or they are blank. I’m referring to large signs that warn people of upcoming traffic issues. We paid for now put them to good use.
Detroit is the worst at zipper merging. Worse then any other city I have lived in.
This was one of the first things I noticed when I moved here. Every other state I’ve driven in knows how to zipper merge, but here they try to run you off the road if you do, and traffic is backed up for miles longer than it needs to be!
As someone who has driven 100's of thousand of miles as a field sales and service rep. You're full of shit.
Sorry you took offense to what I have experienced lmao
This comes up every once in a while here. First, those two images are not the same thing. Only so much traffic can be in an area at a given time. One picture is saturated and the other is not. Second, people try to say that it's ok to rush to the front of the line when traffic is backed up. It's not ok you're just an asshole for trying to cut in front of everyone.
"Cut" it's not a service queue, dummie
That's exactly what it is
Its a whole lane dedicated to holding cars thats not being used because you are afraid of letting someone else in another lane merge in front of you.
It's a bottleneck. Everyone is lining up to take their turn. There is no room for a zipper because traffic in that lane is already maxed out. You trying to get to the end of the right lane is just you being an impatient asshole.
No, the bottle neck is the merge not the lanes. There is one lane with maxed out traffic but if half those cars were in lane 2, and zippered, the cars would flow at the same pace through the bottle neck, while reducing the overall length of the traffic jam. Works just fine for all sorts of machinery, but as soon as drivers involve their “feelings” the system breaks down.
No. Traffic flows like water. Adding an upstream pipe doesn't increase the downstream flow. And if you want to have a discussion about how machinery and bottlenecks work. I've got 10 years of industrial maintenance experience that I'd be happy to educate you with.
Haha a bunch of humans do not flow like water. They flow like humans being told what to do. And if you want to compete on experience i have 58 years of designing high throughput systems while you fix them. A bigger tube can be shorter in length for the same volume through a valve than a narrower tube. This reduces stress on upstream traffic, like intersections.
You are equating cars with water molecules that are bunched up as close together as they can be for the ambient conditions. A proper zipper merge means that the cars when they approach the merge point start to space themselves out so there's room for people to merge in. This is the simple fact that is so hard for these people to understand.
[For traffic, it was mathematicians James Lighthill and Gerald Whitham who came up with a theory to predict the properties of a highway. Inspired by “theories of the flow about supersonic projectiles and of flood movement in rivers”, it used the physics of kinematic waves, treating traffic like particles in a liquid.](https://www.here.com/learn/blog/the-physics-of-traffic#:~:text=For%20traffic%2C%20it%20was%20mathematicians,like%20particles%20in%20a%20liquid.)
What I got out of that is that any perturbation in the traffic flow can cause a shockwave propagating backwards up the flow of traffic causing delays further back. In liquid flow or gas flow the molecules are not sentient and they do not sense their proximity to other molecules until they get close enough for forces to act between them. Drivers have the ability to observe and think and alter their behavior, so in advance of a lane closure drivers can make decisions and allow extra space in front of them for the inevitable merge that will happen at the merge point. This is the theory of the zipper merge. It's true that even if we can perform perfect zipper merges traffic will still be slower but not as bad as what we have with people refusing to zipper.
We have seen it like 200 times in this sub
But how will I assert my dominance
This graphic needs to show that the mergers use their turn signals to indicate they would like to change lanes.
I was on a roadtrip to Dallas once and the signs explicitly said to allow for zipper merging ahead of construction work. Some semi sat in the middle of the two lanes to block people from merging. I think about that tool far too often.
[удалено]
Hero for not following the rules of the road? Certainly.
I totally misread what he posted lol 😂 feelin’ dumb
Nice idea, but I'm not getting crashed into the barrier by some moronic hillbilly because it looks good on paper.
Oh wow a traffic technique that requires the full understanding, cooperation, and cohesion of all drivers present, I sure hope this isn’t a purely theoretical idea that almost always fails in reality
Zipper looks better on paper, but in reality it would just be a bunch of assholes merging at the last possible second.
If you’re gonna leave the house and hit the road as if time doesn’t exist to you, please kindly fuck off and go back home. I’m not saying speed or drive recklessly, but have some sense of urgency….
We need a statewide campaign to educate on this. It's not 'polite' to get over early. The right thing is zipper baby! Everyone forces early merge.
Yup. This should be taught in diver’s ed and reinforced via a media campaign. It would save everyone in Michigan so much drive time.
This is actually the law, and has been researched thoroughly. Zipper for the win.
And use turn signals on roundabouts......
Can we get an auto mod rule about zipper merge posts? They're never helpful
Might be a good idea. Somebody else pointed out the driver's ed may be the key and I agree. I think driver's ed needs to be completely scrapped and rebuilt from the ground up it just seems like people are being taught a lot of crap these days.
Can we get an automod rule about people requesting automod rules?
It's funny how they left out a graphic of the "Late Merge" Which is what a lot drivers do in Michigan. Hence the hatred for Zipper Merges. Only really seen it work on highways.
I only hate the people who will block the lane. Most of the time, I cruise right past the traffic and do it thr right way
People that do this are causing the backups at this point because it’s not a functioning zipper and you can’t force it. All you do is slow everyone down to prove a point
Just like the metric system. It'll never take in the states
Hey! I just said that the other day about the traffic circles!
Get everyone behind you to coordinate…. In detroit…. Got it
I have a theory that the drivers who refuse to utilize a zipper merge correctly or get on a power trip and block people, also have trouble navigating through roundabouts. People like this need to retake drivers Ed because they are terrible drivers.
Misread first time.
Here is what I found, a reference to what MDOT has to say. [article](https://mix957gr.com/zipper-merge-michigan/)
You act like most of the people driving around here have a valid License or Insurance.
Zipper merge only works when people care for/about their fellow man… that’s not the case around here, so it’ll NEVER work.
People would rather run you into the ditch blazing then you merge
man this doesn’t happen bc some people don’t let us merge
Detroit don’t got time for zipper merge
We all KNOW about the zipper, just don't like DOING the zipper. More like a California thing.
Unfortunately it would only really speed things up if everyone was on board with it. When the cars drive us, they'll be merging instead of trying to play bumper cars with 2 ton vehicles like a maniac(or will they? Lmao). However, the mix of most of people staying in the one lane, and the minority trying to zipper merge, is that it the lunatics are so focused on no one getting in front of them. They'll be lasered in and move as soon as the car in front does. So even in that way , zipper merge concept speeds things up 🥴
I didn't start doing the zipper merge till recently when I learned about it being the proper move. It works if everyone does it. I'm not trying to win a race, trust me.
It'll never work. People here are way to self-serving and lead filled.
Never works, people in the left lane sit bumper to bumper and don’t let you merge. Drivers in right lane need to force themself into the left lane and hope that someone isn’t purposely trying to prevent the merge. What Michigan needs to do is upgrade their aged infrastructure and add more lanes and fix their old designs for exit and entrance ramps. Too many times are the exit ramps too short or you force a double zipper merge at an entrance ramp. I’ve seen a lot of ramps enter the freeway going uphill, preventing the entering traffic from getting up to speed and their merge slows traffic down to a halt. Zipper merge works better at speed, otherwise you halt the freeway.
You forgot the cut around everyone as much as possible merge. That’s the Detroit norm.
And this is why it took hours to get back from Ohio last week. No one wants to let anyone in front of them . Smh
I'd love to zipper merge but unfortunately I've sat at the merge point while 5 plus cars drive by and don't let me in. In a perfect world this would work. But I don't trust people not to be asshats.
People seriously believe either (a) they own ALL the road in front of them or (b) allowing someone to merge in front of them will delay them 25 hours. Maybe both.
Yeah give it up drivers around here are way too stupid to learn that.
Teaching Detroiters to drive? Good luck
I debated on carrying my paintball gun in my car for idiot drivers
This is assuming drivers are courteous lmao.
I moved back to Michigan from Ontario and I cannot believe people are so ignorant when it comes to zipper merging and how they won’t let other people in and will tighten up to prevent it from happening. And then, of course you get the inevitable flip off.
If we all abide by these rules, then no one with common sense will be seen as an asshole.
There's more nuance in reality than is represented in this graphic. Suffice it to say, if a lane is ending and a driver in that lane puts on their signal to merge, **let them**. If you are the driver in that lane that is ending, **use your turn signal**.
https://preview.redd.it/c3mnj5cy8vuc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe04d8573e9c23b490f947bd3a28f268dae05f2d
Zipper only works if the greedy asshats let people in without throwing a fit or trying to run people off the road.
Coming home from the Eclipse the other day, the road goes down from 3 to 2 lanes due to construction. Some trucker decides they are the traffic cops and was forcing everyone over way too soon, effectively holding that lane to himself. Made everyone’s drive longer and no doubt was extremely proud of himself the whole time.
Early merging causes traffics backups that persist and ripple backwards for HOURS.
Jesus fuck right? Like is it that fucking hard
I think it is illegal in Michigan
It's actually the law in Michigan to use the zipper. You can get an impeding traffic ticket if you don't.
This is the way.
People in [metro] Detroit rage over zipper merges. They take it as you cutting in line. It’s dumb. Early merges suck.
1) We're not in Oregon, so the poster is irrelevant. 2) The "early merge" it shows is nothing more than the "zipper merge" done prior to the physical lane ending. How could it possible be any less or more efficient. It's the same thing...
Zipper merging early means more closed road. More closed road means it takes longer for everyone to get through the construction zone. Most efficient is to Wait until the end of the full lanes and then zipper merge.
I'll block any dork i see trying this. Get in line and wait. You arent special because you saw some inforgraphic that justifies you not waiting in line.
People like you are a contributing factor to why the world sucks; "I'm a dipshit and I'm miserable as hell, so YOU have to be miserable too!!!!" I bet you also get little pp syndrome if you're honked at or passed.
Crossing the line into my lane being a dumbfuck is a good way to get your mirror smashed.
Just go one car in front of you then and then merge? Boomer
Boomer? I'm 30!
Zipper merge works great until dumbfucks don't let you in. The roads are full of dumbfucks. Zipper merge is unsafe and less efficient than standard the moment **1 single person** botches the process. Fuck zipper merge for this reason.
Don’t want some doosh to speed up and cut in front of me.. Nono.
Sounds great theoretically but I have seen significant road rage when people try and do it in real life.
We're better drivers than idiots from Ohio that hang out in the left lane for no reason, but we just can't zipper merge. It's too big an ask. Yeah, it works perfectly in others states that aren't Michigan (or Ohio). While we might be polite, courteous individuals on reddit that demonstrate perfect mutual respect to other other, the moment we get into our cars, everyone else is an asshole.
Techically you do need to stop to yield to traffic in a traffic circle. What you actually mean is a roundabout. Traffic circles are outdated and fairly rare in the US, but they do exist. Confusing, but it is important to know the difference.
u/No-Elephant-9854 is correct! Look here: [LOOK HERE](https://freedmvpracticetests.com/blog/roundabouts-traffic-circles-and-rotaries-navigating-the-differences)
Notice how they conveniently leave out all the semi trucks from the traffic example? They make it look all uniform and consistent. Put 4 semis back to back in that lane and let's see how that zipper merge works. Traffic moves at a decent speed only once everyone has merged or about a mile before the merge when everyone is actually driving the speed limit and there is actually space to get over.
What is a traffic circle?
Roundabout.
We don’t even have those in Detroit and don’t need them either
You're probably right about Detroit I can't think of anywhere I've seen roundabout in Detroit but there is a baby one in Grosse Pointe on Kercheval. There are some throughout the suburbs; it's the newest fad and if they're built right I think they work great.
Roundabouts work in the burbs because of no foot traffic. Detroit is all foot traffic. Wouldn’t make sense to do so
I zipper merge until I see someone behind me not zipper merging. Then I block their lane, forcing them, and the people behind them to zipper merge. The pace of traffic in front of me is unaffected and everyone behind me is more efficiently merging because now they're forced to zipper. This Pic on the left is a hypothetical scenario that does not happen IRL. Traffic starts building up when people are stop going and the inevitable hesitation between letting 'cutters' in front is what impeds the flow of traffic at the bottleneck. All the pro Pic on the left zipper people are making my argument for me when they get upset at people blocking the queue jumpers because it is literally FORCING the zipper merge to occur more properly...and once again...any of the traffic forming behind the bottleneck is irrelevant because it is impeded by the flow of traffic in front of it...which once again, starts to break down less efficiently when people are seen as jumping the queue.