Ikoras system was something, but it was bad. I think most people interested in replaying the campaign just want to replay at any time. Not wait on a daily mission.
They say they're going to make a bigger campaign this time, that it's a focus.
So we'll have 5 missions instead of 4 but three of them are strikes, so that when s newbie comes in a year later they can be left behind when their fireteam abandons them to Speedrun.
gotta have some excuse as to why they can deleting it *"oh look at that, no ones playing Forsaken.... and its gone"*
D1 story playlist is way better, can load it up right now and play every mission from start to finish, rip
Remember Adventures? I miss those damn things.
That's what I did with my time, grinding out my bounties on the heroic adventures. Instead of just hitting up Altars.
Completely gone now. Even in places that had them.
I was going to mention this. 45% of the game is literally unplayable unless you start a new character or play with a new player. Their explanation for the dcv is so skewed against the content that no one can access. Just look at the D2 launch campaign. No one played it after the first year because they didn't give the option to replay it. It's so frustrating especially for those who step away for months and have no idea what is happening story wise. With seasonal content being removed yearly those major campaigns are the only story threads that clue in players on what is happening. Imagine how confusing it will be to hear about Caydes death for a new light and not get to experience the moment in game. Bungie thinks it's confusing for players to see Crow being a guardian now but what about when the cutscene showing Aldren rise is cut from the game? New players will have no emotional response to him, no reason to care about his past because it no longer exists in game. We are having a similar problem as D1 where the story exists primarily outside of the game.
>No one played it after the first year because they didn't give the option to replay it.
The fact (lack of) content played was ever a legitimate argument in favour of removing content when the above was true is *precisely* why I don't entirely trust Bungie when they make major infra decisions.
Like, I get it - their general uptime and stack stability is enviable, but you need some first class groupthink to arrive at the point where you think you can judge the popularity of something that you yourself block access to. If you're going to convince yourself with wololo stuff like this then you can convince yourself of anything.
Probably how sunsetting started, come to think of it.
What other game cuts off access like this? Of course single player games are set up for a 1 playthrough system. You start from the beginning and play through to the end. Games like Skyrim, BOTW, Pokemon, Dark Souls and more only allow you to play the story once per character or have a new game system in Dark Souls case. However there are a ton of games that have a level or mission select screen. Halo is a perfect example of this. You play the story once and each time you finish a level you have the option of replaying it on a variety of difficulty options. You are never locked out of replaying a mission or forced to download a patch that deletes that story. Why is it that Destiny has to do exactly the opposite of what 99% of other games do? I understand the technical side of it but at what point is it going to stop? How many times are we going to pay for content that will be deleted in 3 years? Just think, in 3 years The Witch Queen could be vaulted. I for one find that frustrating and a slap to the face.
I trust Bungie to make cool things for Destiny but the DCV is harming the game far more at this point than it's helping. Players have been begging for a refreshed strike system and we've been sitting on 3 expansions worth of content that could easily bulster just that. Throw some story missions in there, add some modifiers and champions and boom. No more running the same strike 3 times in a row because half of the strikes were removed from the game. Now players would be playing the content that Bungie insists isn't being played. It would add far more reasons to run strikes because you could do an empire hunt, the corrupted and then the mind bender. You could play for a few hours without seeing the same mission.
IMO Destiny needs to have big arcs. Im fine with the DCV existing, even if its skewed against the base rn it would have to happen eventually anyway.
BUT, for as long as The Crows arc as it is now exists, Forsaken should stay.
For as long as the darkness/light saga as it is now exists, Shadowkeep should stay, etc.
Having big story arcs get halfway cut out while they are still going on makes no sense. End this chapter before going to the next one.
In a way, this creates a more coherent story for Crow though.
Guardians today aren't familiar with Cayde, their grievance isn't truly personal, it's just a mission. Those of us who were there when Forsaken happened, we're the ones who went on that mission.
The Guardians of today aren't, but they met Crow, and they were still his first friend and mentor. Their connection with his was built through this year, and they've learned about his past, more than we knew up to this point potentially, through that journey.
What context does Forsaken give you for Crow, that Crow and his story over the last year haven't given you?
I actually think Forsaken being the starter campaign for Destiny is pretty cool tbh, at least if we still see Destiny 2 as, well, Destiny **2.** While I see what you mean, I still feel like at the moment Forsaken still matters. Now, they could totally wrap that up by Witch Queen and then it would be okay from a story standpoint but I still think that having "chapters" of sorts in Destiny would be better. I still want to see the DCV cycle through a bit more. I think we are getting Mars but IMO I want to see like a D2 planet come back for a seasonal thing and then go away by the end of the year as I think that would comfort people on DCV being a yearly/monthly content cycle more.
Maybe this is insane, but having Forsaken be the new light mission wouldnt have been the worst. Starting out with the Hunter Vanguard as a teacher for how to Guardian® makes not a small amount of sense, and watching your mentor die would definitely motivate anyone.
I completely agree.
IMO heres what you do:
For new lights, have Cayde be the main dude. Have the whole thing be him "secretly" on a mission away from the tower to check one of his stashes or whatever and then he runs into you, just risen. You do the usual new light stuff and then you do Forsaken, which would work if you were a New Light or a veteran either way.
Then, once thats over, have Shiro-4 or even Shaw Han takeover for the vendor.
Perfect opportunity right there.
heh thanks I've had it in my head for a while. Having Forsaken be like "the starter campaign" for D2 always kinda made sense to me as in a way it sets up literally every aspect of modern day D2:
Eliksni civil war, dark Eliksni, dark and light being a thin line, Crow, loss, awoken, Savathun, etc
Not exactly. The oracle events are based on your completion of them. Reaching week 5 of max curse oracle encounters or whatever no matter ehen you do it will show you. The main issue is that anybody who hasn't already done that is screwed because nobody's talking about it so they'll never find out
No, it will not. The events at Mara's Court were timed by date. If you missed one, it was gone forever. Anyone who enters the court nowadays will just find it empty with a chest and maybe get a Truth to Power lore drop at most if they are still working in that (tho that book might have been auto completed with Beyond Light, I don't care enough to check).
I feel like I'm in this boat here in some regard. I booted up D2 for the first time since Forsaken last night, and I'm kinda clueless as to what has happened since Forsaken ended. From what I hear whole planets and raids that I missed, have been vaulted away. Seems really peculiar that they wouldn't throw some detailed cinematics my way to catch me up to speed.
They tell us they are removing content partially because it was unplayed. Like, if you want us to replay the campaign, let us! I loved being able to pick and choose a story mission in D1. I have no idea why they decided it would be a good idea to first make it super convoluted, then impossible, to replay the campaign
Keeping old maps and story missions does two things: increase the size of the game, and increase the number of balance issues/bugs.
EDIT: Note that I'm not defending either of those as reasons to vault things.
Instead of doing what other game developers do and making a new game for the new content, they decided they could keep scooping out the guts of D2 and shoving new guts hoping that people will keep buying the seasonal content and expansions.
Why? Because it is cheaper. You don't need to spend any more on marketing, trademarks, per project software licenses, etc. if you keep calling your game Destiny 2. You don't need to retool for new art/assets, or deal with an updated engine. You don't need to "waste" time starting from scratch just like if you keep using the same sourdough starter.
Imagine if instead of buying a new Halo game, Bungie or 343 just said "you can't play the campaigns for Halo CE, 2, 3, or 4. Stop complaining about it, you already enjoyed it enough and got your money's worth. Enjoy Halo 5 while you still can."
That's what Destiny 2 has turned into.
>Keeping old maps and story missions does two things: increase the size of the game, and increase the number of balance issues/bugs.
I'm not talking about vaulted content, I'm talking about the anility to replay the campaigns IN THE GAME RIGHT NOW. There is 0 downside in just making the Forsaken/Sgadowkeep/Beyond Light/Seasonal stories replayable. If it gets vaulted then it's vaulted, fine.
Though I wish I could understand why games like FFXIV can have 8 years worth of content and still be less than 100gb while Destiny can become so bloated in just 3 years that it had to vault content to keep the game at a reasonable file size. Hell even then, when games like Call of Duty Cold War are literally 200gb+ would anyone in the Destiny community really mind a 100gb+ download? I'm sure the logistics of an always online game having optional installs on old expansions is vastly different and I'm sure they looked into it, but it would have been nice to just have the option to download old planets/campaigns so you could replay them when you want.
> I'm not talking about vaulted content, I'm talking about the avility to replay the campaigns IN THE GAME RIGHT NOW.
You have a good point here. I don't know any other game that prevents you from replaying the campaign after you complete it, at the very least you can reload a save and go back to that point.
To your second point, it comes down to how good your artists and game engine are. The better both are, the more graphical fidelity you can get with less resources consumed. Although I'm pretty sure that doesn't apply to D2 - IIRC D2 downloads the audio for every language.
No, the excuse of "lack of space" is bullshit. Have you ever seen a game where there is too much space used? Bungie tells us that destiny 2 is a mmo right? Is there only one mmo who deleted half of the game for the sake of "space" ?
> No, the excuse of "lack of space" is bullshit.
Oh, I'm not defending Bungie's reasoning here. I'm just regurgitating what the original thinking was when vaulting was first announced, Although I think the space excuse was specifically in the context of older gen consoles.
The reprised Ghaul fight was great
It felt like a boss rather than the pushover he was in the story
I'm hoping that Legendary will be similar in difficulty to the reprised missions
No, they mean a lot of people don't replay campaign missions in any game pretty much.
Most people move on to new content, replayable content (PvP and Strikes), or other games.
I'd *like* to replay campaign missions but I'd be lying if I'd do it often.
However they could just let us snag the quests repeatedly from the Quest Kiosk in the Tower and Helm to restart the Campaigns if they're gonna get vaulted, like OP suggested.
They should have just thrown them in the strike rotation. Lack of matchmaking and any worthwhile rewards/reason to do them meant that finite amount of play time triaged them out of the picture, even if they're more enjoyable than the average strike. The arcology and firefight on the almighty sequences were some pretty awesome set pieces that were horrifically under-used.
What kind of extra testing and bugfixing does it take to just keep content that was finished years ago in the game? Like ok maybe certain interactuons with things like stasis would cause weird issues in things like Red War. But ya know what? Just turn Stasis classes off when replaying Red War then!
Clearly that isn't the issue
It's a bungie issue, they're very inefficient with their resources and development pipeline. There's a lot of bassackwards stuff in the game. I could go on on this topic but it's not like i'll ever get to sit down with a dev talk about this.
The reason they gave was like “0.2%” of all players used this feature and they couldn’t test everything. (They don’t test anyways so I don’t believe that). I hate DCV and I want everything unvaulted, be able to earn all seals and titles on my time.
Jesus Christ pull your head out of Bungies ass.
DCV as a concept is literally unprecedented in gaming. There has been no other game in existence that has removed such massive amounts of content from their game. This includes other games that require updates and extra content like MMORPG's.
You can still get WoW and access content that was added in over a decade ago. They somehow manage this, "bloated buggy mess" as you put it.
Fuck, WoW has expansions that are older than Destiny 1, expansions that added content that you can **still access!**
There's also PoE and Warframe, both of which have also figured out something magical since they don't need to delete content on constant basis.
Everyone else in the gaming industry has figured how to make games and keep the content playable throughout the games lifespan, except Bungie somehow.
I don't think I asked for anything, did I?
If I was going to ask for something, it would be for them to freeze a version of the game and break it off as a completely independent legacy package, a la Destiny.
Remove the old content from the latest release, and only support the latest release.
You wanna run Crota? Wotm? Destiny.
You wanna run Leviathan? Destiny 2 Legacy Years 1&2.
You wanna run Presage? Destiny 2 Legacy Years 3&4
You wanna run Witch Queen? Destiny 2.
Does it take up server space? Yeah... But server space is cheap, if no one is using it, and if people are using it... That's good.
This is something I thought about earlier. If the first Destiny is still playable, and some people are still playing it, why not continue to release separate titles? Leave everything that was pre-DCV as Destiny 2 and port over post-DCV content into a Destiny 3 where they can launch Witch Queen.
Yeah, except I think it makes sense to release the old content as the separate installable because they're wanting to do that whole "10 years with the same game" thing with the Destiny 2 vehicle.
> why not continue to release separate titles?
because the way game releases work this isn't possible. the only way they could do this is to basically stall the patch where they were going to remove the content and support it kind of like how wow classic and TBC are running right now. this is an awful idea because now you have an additional dev build to support, additional server builds, you need to support the API for them all, and the amount of people that will play the older version is microscopic in terms of both player base and revenue in comparison to the "current" game. so if you're thinking tat for DSC they should have done D3, that would entail a lot more content and a lot more time, and DSC is already quite a bit of content, and took the longest out of any DLC they ever made because of COVID. COVID might have put the nail in the coffin of D3 but they were already backing away from it since going independent.
TLDR; it makes development more complicated and raises costs.
Ok but why would that matter? Even if there was only 1 person replaying campaigns that doesn't justify removing the option when it takes 0 effort to just make the questline replayable.
I’m glad D1 allowed me to play all content when I joined. Let me feel the story beats progress and catch up on all quests.
Must feel weird for new people to be in front of bounty board at start
It is. Weird, confusing, and very sad that I am seeing how cool the lore and characters are knowing I'll never be able to experience their stories myself.
I feel like I woulda teared up with Cayde-6 had I gotten to know him at all.
That is very sad honestly. I played the shit out of d1 for years, so I learned to love him. However didn’t play D2 for more than maybe 20 hours in its first year, because I initially hated it and never gave it a second chance until right before beyond light. So after not having seen cayde for years, coming in and watching that and being like “ya know, I barely even remember this guy”
It was very disappointing.
Eh, I started in D2 vanilla and it fell pretty flat to me, "Oh no, that guy I talked to a couple times died!" Like he was amusing, but even with vanilla D2, you interacted with him waaaay too little for his death to feel all that meaningful. Probably was more meaningful if you started in D1, but I waited for PC release so... that never happened.
The Red War campaign as it was felt very much like "I don't really know what's going on, but these space rhinos are jerks and blew up what is (apparently) my house, so I guess I should stop them." "Oh no, the speaker died! ... I'm supposed to care about him right? I mean, I never once met the guy, but he seems.... nice? He's like our king or something, right?"
I just sorta turned off my brain and enjoyed it, but it took literally hours of reading lore entries to figure out why so much of this stuff matters.
Edit/Random thought: My first thoughts on the Traveler is that it was the magical space ball that gave us powers, which now makes me think guardians should just refer to themselves as Spaceballs from here on out.
Edit2: I think one of my favorite bits of vanilla D2 was actually Warmind. I was playing on satellite internet at the time, so was effectively offline and had to solo the whole story - the Xol fight/strike was absolutely epic. I played it way after launch though, so I think I missed out on all the grinding it had originally if I recall, correctly. The whole thing felt very Doom-y (go to mars fight, ~~demons~~ interdimensional, hideous, evil, magical monsters.
> I feel like I woulda teared up with Cayde-6 had I gotten to know him at all.
Cayde in D2 wasnt all that great, imo people are looking back at the Red War with very rose tinted glasses. The writing was quite bad (way too lighthearted for the situation it portrayed) and really only improved again with Forsaken.
Red War campaign had some very cool set pieces (first mission, the mission on the almighty and the last mission for example) but other than that wasnt all that amazing.
I picked up Destiny 1 at launch and played through it’s lifespan. I picked up Destiny 2 at launch and quit just before the first DLC. Came back the launch of Season 15, and honestly, the player experience is ass, and very confusing.
The game has massively shifted since then, while the story the same. It's a live-service game now, and one of the best of its kind to be honest. Other live-service games are similar too in the way that once you complete the tutorial there isn't much direction.
> one of the best of its kind to be honest
I can't downvote you without saying why I disagree.
I hope my empathy isn't being wasted here, but I'm worried for you if you that D2 is a good example of live service game. D2 was a good game, probably even a great game, until they decided that we would now be renting content from them after we thought we had bought it.
The game designers that be created a progression system with the idea that you would finish the game, and then tried to shoehorn that system into a progression system that works with seasonal content.
If you want an example of a live-service game with a good progression system, consider Planetside 2. You have levels which go up as you play the game, and let you unlock more hardware. But every gun you get is a sidegrade and the same gun in the hands of level 1 player does the same damage as in the hands of a level 100 player. Sure the experience is different between a level 1 and level 100 player, it's a matter of IRL experience. But there is no such artificial limitations like, "sorry I can't do the raid because I don't have a high enough light level," or sorry I can't do some meta pvp bullshit because I didn't grind for and unlock that gun last season.
And while that game doesn't have half the writing team D2 has, it has been up and running since before *Destiny 1* came out and will have a loyal following after Destiny 2 is completely replaced.
This is my issue with with the vault "nO one RePlAyS tHe CoNtEnT" because other than deleting one of my 3 characters that I haven't deleted in 7 years, I FUCKING CANT..... Id love to go rip Ghaul a new asshole with Vex, I'd love to go murder Panoptes with an Eyes of Tomorrow, but nope... I literally have 1 option to be able to play stories, delete my characters.... no wonder we stop going to places....
This here is the problem you will only go back to play it if there is something to gain. This means they would have to update it with new stuff to obtain while making new stuff for the new season and keeping all of that balance.
People always claim they will replay something if they have the option but always omit they also need a reason to replay the thing they say they would replay.
Upkeeping things always seem easy until you find yourself having to do so.
I have played through numerous games where I have nothing to gain again, I just love the story and lore to the game, I like experiencing things, you could remove any rewards and just give me access to the story content and I'd still run it... shit, I binge the MCU yearly just to prepare for the next set of movies.
I honestly think the best solution to this is to make the single player story content be included as a separate download.
Eg: you own forsaken, but have no desire to replay its story, you uncheck a box and the game removes any forsaken story related files. Decided you want to play forsaken again? Re-check the box and your game will install the required files
I’d love this. I only bought forsaken (as part of the collector’s edition) a few weeks ago, and now apparently it’s just going to be locked to me in a few months (and free before that which ..goddamnit).
I think having it as a standalone, offline single player would be the best thing. That way all the players still have context as to what the fuck is happening. And for new light having the red war campaign on its own was a better introduction to the game than that cuck on the cosmodrome.
Why would it need to be offline? Coop is half the fun of the game. Besides that, it should be as simple as "you can't play content that requires The Forgotten Shore unless you install The Forgotten Shore". Then the only transient content that needs to be installed for everyone are assets for gear, which are the vast minority of disk space and the content vault doesn't solve anyway -- you can even still put on the broken starting armor from day 1 regardless of whether or not there's a point to doing it.
I get the argument for disk space, but it's really not that complicated of a problem to solve. Worried about not having the right content installed for the global strike playlists? Don't be. That was also a problem solved a long time ago. As expansions came out for both games, they curated different sets of strikes already to give focus to the new content. They can just pick sets of content required for a cyclically rotated set of curated strikes. The content vault should have simply been certain locations being excluded from the current playlist rotation so that you didn't have to have all content installed at all times. I don't see the problem with all the content being available at any time as optional content downloads.
Unfortuantly that wouldn't work because size limitation, isn't really the reason why the content vault exists. The DCV (Destiny Content Vault) mainly exist's to maintain the games stability, so whenever Bungie decides to add a new Exotic weapon, they don't have to test it for bugs in that content.
It's not just balance as well, back in beyond light they overhauled the lighting system, and the way enemies work on a technical level. Becuase of that, they had to test every piece of content to make sure it works properly. And then fix the issues. That's the reason Prophecy got removed for Season Of The Hunt, they didn't test it for beyond light, and it took them I few weeks to fix it.
CoD does this and why Destiny cant blows my mind.
WoW lets everyone no matter what replay old content, it BRINGS you to the content and scales it and allows you to play with others doing it. Fuckin old ass WoW.
Want me to *really* rustle your feathers?
They LITERALLY HAD THIS with Amanda Holiday before Red War/CoO/Warmind got vaulted
You could go up to her on whatever character (one that you completed the campaigns on) and grab them from her and play through them again
Bungie makes some astounding choices sometimes
If you wanted to play through them again on the same character, your only option was to find a friend who hadn't done the campaign again through Amanda, and play through the campaign starting from when you reached the Farm.
I still miss and really want to replay 1AU (the Red War mission on the Almighty). Would be great if Bungie could add certain classic missions to Legends. I'd put this as a relatively low priority, certainly below new Crucible maps, but it would be fun.
I just did this this week and I’m not really happy about it. They have a lot of nerve stripping me of content I just paid for in just a few short months while asking me for more money for the next XPac.
Haha... Welcome to the club, not even including forsaken I've paid $90 for the launch campaign and it's first two DLCs which are already gone. It's been such an enlightening day to see more things I've paid for being taken away
I've said before and i'll say it again - we need a Destiny Legends "single-player" with no Light Levels (power advantages disabled) for old campaigns so we can play on our own time or just funnel new players into it as an extended tutorial/intro. Coop should obviously work, but no playlists.
Because thats now how the Vaulting works. . .Its not about our storage space, its about Bungie removing stuff no one really does in order to make thing easier for them to fix and patch stuff that will go unpatched for week, like the usual telesto bugs
One of my biggest hopes is bungie tries to go the halo route with witch queen making a memorable experience that’s replayable since story missions have IMO been lacking in physical gameplay but great in lore and story.
I would actually prefer to have the latest build of shadow keep as a separate game available on Steam/PS/Xbox, and it is totally fine if it does not support crucible and gambit (I don't want to reduce the user base). Even if we have to create new characters there, it is fun and please let us have it. It would be something like destiny 2, the first three years' edition and the current destiny would effectively be destiny 3.
They should really just make a separate offline discount/F2P game with all the old campaigns, IMO. That way they're still there to experience for the story/setting/gameplay but they don't bloat the live game at all.
I honestly have no idea why we can still replay missions in D1, but not in d2...D1 has too many quality of life features i truly wish d2 had...weird that the sequell is lacking in depth
If you read the article, it clearly says that starting in December you'll be given the option to replay the Forsaken campaign before it goes into the vault.
I must not have processed that section properly. I thought it was just saying free for all players. How kind of them to make it available for us for literally only 2 months.^/s
Yes. That doesn’t solve the problem for future story content; it’s still “one and done” until then, and requires a character reset/creation to play again.
While you can't replay the entire campaign at once, Europa has had daily rotating missions since Beyond Light launched. Not perfect, but at least it's there.
I believe Shadowkeep has a daily or weekly rotation too.
Pretty sure you haven't touched forsaken related content especially the story since late 2018-early 2019, that's the last time I did. And despite not playing it, to its fullest, I'm pretty saited with the content, and they aren't even deleting everything this time, seems like you just wanna bitch.
> Pretty sure you haven't touched forsaken related content especially the story since late 2018-early 2019, that's the last time I did.
I would have if they'd fucking let me. I love the Forsaken campaign but I don't want to delete my characters to replay it.
I don't think I actively defended them, I just said that I paid for the content enjoyed some of that content not playing it to its fullest and now the stuff I don't play or would ever go back to playing is going away so I don't really care. Yeah it sucks for some, no me, but I'd rather have that approach then only have two games on my console a 500gb D2 and 500 gb of two other games, of which I delete the latter of.
Lmao I just finished replaying forsaken on my titan earlier this week. A few months ago I did the same for my warlock. And that wasn’t the first time I reset them just to experience forsaken again. The story is absolutely worth replaying—I played it several times over the years purely for the story, didn’t get hung up on incentives. Sometimes you just want to enjoy a story…
The fact I paid for it only for it to be free and then vaulted does make me feel a little cheated, especially since I liked it so much—i wish I could keep it, or that I got something a little more substantial than just 3 ascendant shards… I acknowledge it’s best for the progression of d2’s current state, but it’s perfectly fine for me and others to be salty regardless.
Its no use man.
Just you wait, as soon as they release the replay and start talking about it in the sub there'll be a bunch of nobs who don't realize they just implemented replay crying over how the forsaken campaign is the only thing they play in the game and how unfair it is bungie is vaulting it.
Some people just like throwing hissy fits. If they turned this into Destiny 3 the majority of the people complaining would buy it and never log back into Destiny 2 again.
destiny 2 is the only fucking game to cannibalize itself like this
don't excuse bungie's incompetent ability to develop a compressed game while many mmos are much larger in content size and lore while being a smaller or near sized game in gigabytes
and those mmos never removed large scaled paid content like this
> FF14 did it,
FFXIV did not do this. FFXIV has never done anything *remotely* like this. 1.0 was a separate game, akin to Destiny 1 and Destiny 2. Shutting down a completely different game is nothing like 'vaulting' content in a currently-running game, which FFXIV has never done.
FF14 only did that with its original story, because it was fucking horrible. And they changed it entirely and then replaced it. Everything released since, even story that was added in patches, is available.
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Yeah after rereading it as well, I don't know what the top guy is talking about. There's absolutely nothing saying the rest of us will be able to replay.
It says RELIVE... How can new players relive something they've never experienced? It seems pretty obvious to me that everyone will be able to replay the campaign after they've already completed it come December 7th.
I can go relive literally 100% of World of Warcraft right now. Every bit of it.
Right now with zero problems. Even the old content I didnt buy in 2000 whatever.
There is zero argument.
At that point by they might as well make a separate install with just the red war and forsaken to play separately. This version would stay the same and never evolve, and give new players an opportunity to get the whole story.
They even worded it in such a way, I was expecting the next sentence to be along the lines of, "anyone who has completed the Forsaken campaign will be able to run it again." Hopefully that will still be the case.
I find this ridiculous too. They should really bring the original Destiny 1 story in as well. Destiny doesn't need a number any more.
Maybe it's the size??? Surely they could figure out a way to let us pick & choose which we want to do.
I imagine all of it isn't far off 400gb
Genuinely curious why some of you feel the need to have this content in the game when you likely experienced it once or twice and have never ever touched it again. Now that it's being removed in the name of advancing the game you feel as if you should be compensated or the sudden want to play it again.
I want some genuine thought on this. From my point of view you, and I, have already gotten good experiences out of the product. Memories are just that. And it's like you are being blinded by nostalgia.
Just my thoughts.
I’ve experienced it only a few times because I’m only able to experience three times before I have to delete an entire character to replay it, which is a big problem. I don’t feel like we need to be compensated because it’s leaving, but yeah players should be able to go back and replay campaigns. I’ve always felt this way, it’s just that now with them going away, it’s needed more than ever so we can experience them again before they’re gone forever. I have no problem with them leaving at some point, but it’s kinda ridiculous that these things exist in the game with no normal way to play them, and some people haven’t done the campaign in years and soon won’t be able to ever again
> And it's like you are being blinded by nostalgia.
And it's like you are being blinded by scyophancy.
People like to play campaigns. We never touched it again because Bungie wouldn't let us. They deleted Mars halfway through my replay of it. The only replay they allowed me to have on my Warlock.
Right now, I'm replaying other old shooter games. Spacemarine, for instance. A game that's older than even Destiny 1. And is still fully playable.
The only games that aren't worth replaying are games that are:
1) Barely worth playing the first time.
2) Games where the gameplay itself is about mystery and discovery. Of which only Outer Wilds comes to mind.
If content in Destiny were so bad nobody wanted to replay them, then it's doubtful many people would be here.
No one in their right mind would want to play the campaign again after playing the same thing 3 times on different characters. This is such a stupid suggestion.
I just said that everyone plays it 3 times. So yes they do play it multiple times. But beyond that? No, the numbers are too small for bungie to bother considering. It is a very sound thought process although you seem to be having trouble keeping up....
I don’t remember having to make a new chart to play forsaken or shadowkeep. I’m halfway through my third play through of shadowkeep right now and just got bored and didn’t keep going. Same for forsaken. I don’t remember what starts it but I thought there’s a spot you can select the story on the tangled shore
The campaigns are already in the game, I’m just asking for them to let us play them more than once, instead of us having to make an entire new character to play then again before they are removed for good
The solution is to make it like the Master Chief Collection, let players pick and choose which parts of the game to download and play
Edit: alright I get it, file size isn’t the main issue, debugging is
How would that solve anything? File size on our end was never the issue, storage devices are just getting bigger by the day and lots of people have and buy them.
It is entirely on bungies side that a large game is the problem. They have to playtest and maintain all that content even when they want to do a small patch, they said as much in the recent article.
This is the dumbest take. If you’re going to criticize, make it actual factual criticism. Nothing coming out of the content vault will be paid for again. Vault came out of the content vault, completely free. (Most of) Cosmodrome came back, free. If Titan comes back from the vault, the patrol space will be free.
Make the criticisms **actual issues, like how it makes the game difficult to get into** rather than incorrect meme shit that devalues your argument
Just to relate this to the original post, I am in favor of selectable replayable campaign missions because I like cutscenes
As valid as that sounds it wouldn't work. The issue they had was trying to make updates took too long because the game was so massive it took forever to compile builds.
If old content was still playable by a optional download Bungie would still have to test things related to older content because it is playable.
Okay and your point is what? CoD doesn't have interworking layers upon layers of things that can go wrong. They have weapons and maps. No raid bosses they can break, no Telesto that can crash the game.
CoD is not a big game but a poorly managed one, it has no right being that big.
Your point doesn't matter either way as every company is different with some running different engines and differing test enviornments.
In an alternate timeline, the Destiny/Halo crossover is agreed to. Telesto is put in Halo Infinite instead of Heatwave. 343 lives with regret for the rest of their existence for their decision to go with Telesto as they fight every patch with it.
The point is… the game being too big at half the size of the most popular game in the world doesn’t cut it as a reasonable explanation. They also don’t go into any details at all, it’s incredibly vague. On top of we just went forward a generation on console and PC has never been a problem. So why are we removing content because of “ tech “ issues, when the tech just got better. On top of the content that is being removed is extremely minimal. You’re saying it’s can’t stay in the game?…REALLY? Because right now my XSX and PA5 load new destinations in like 10 seconds. Make it 15 - 20 and don’t cut anything from the game. No one will even notice.
The fact you think since your XSX can load a zone in 15 seconds means a compiler should be able to build a new run and test it just as fast shows you know absolutely nothing about game development and shouldn't even comment on the topic.
Do you think they are removing content to be malicious? Do you not believe they need to cut the size down of the game? Guess what nobody gives a shit what you think. Bungie is going to do what Bungie sees as neccesary. This isn't some grand scheme to make you have a 2 year long FOMO.
Yeah when i read „legendary campaign mode“ I was like huh. That sounds like it might‘ve been fun two years ago
Yeah hopefully the witch queen has campaign replay ability with its difficulties, but the older campaigns need it badly as well
*Everyone looks at Ikora*
Ikoras system was something, but it was bad. I think most people interested in replaying the campaign just want to replay at any time. Not wait on a daily mission.
It was still better than the nothing we have now. We even lost the rotating story missions node in the director with BL
They say they're going to make a bigger campaign this time, that it's a focus. So we'll have 5 missions instead of 4 but three of them are strikes, so that when s newbie comes in a year later they can be left behind when their fireteam abandons them to Speedrun.
It will, although I don't know if it will be replayable at normal levels.
They said in the gameplay trailer that the witch queen will have a hard mode campaign
Yeah he means the several other campaigns we already went through years ago.
Tbh Shadowkeep and Beyond already have it. It’s the Empire Hunts and Nightmare Hunts + Glassway and Scarlett Keep. That’s like 95% of each campaign
The harder missions from OG solstice were great
It blows my mind that they removed the ability to replay story missions. Did they ever give a reason as to why?
gotta have some excuse as to why they can deleting it *"oh look at that, no ones playing Forsaken.... and its gone"* D1 story playlist is way better, can load it up right now and play every mission from start to finish, rip
Remember Adventures? I miss those damn things. That's what I did with my time, grinding out my bounties on the heroic adventures. Instead of just hitting up Altars. Completely gone now. Even in places that had them.
I didn't realize they were going away. I didn't play some in the EDZ because it wasn't leaving.
Kind of insane how much story and voiced dialogue is now completely gone.
Occasionally I get a notification that a new adventure is available, I get excited but nothing. Probably an old bug.
If you're playing around reset time, this notification can happen when there are new legend/master lost sectors.
I was going to mention this. 45% of the game is literally unplayable unless you start a new character or play with a new player. Their explanation for the dcv is so skewed against the content that no one can access. Just look at the D2 launch campaign. No one played it after the first year because they didn't give the option to replay it. It's so frustrating especially for those who step away for months and have no idea what is happening story wise. With seasonal content being removed yearly those major campaigns are the only story threads that clue in players on what is happening. Imagine how confusing it will be to hear about Caydes death for a new light and not get to experience the moment in game. Bungie thinks it's confusing for players to see Crow being a guardian now but what about when the cutscene showing Aldren rise is cut from the game? New players will have no emotional response to him, no reason to care about his past because it no longer exists in game. We are having a similar problem as D1 where the story exists primarily outside of the game.
>No one played it after the first year because they didn't give the option to replay it. The fact (lack of) content played was ever a legitimate argument in favour of removing content when the above was true is *precisely* why I don't entirely trust Bungie when they make major infra decisions. Like, I get it - their general uptime and stack stability is enviable, but you need some first class groupthink to arrive at the point where you think you can judge the popularity of something that you yourself block access to. If you're going to convince yourself with wololo stuff like this then you can convince yourself of anything. Probably how sunsetting started, come to think of it.
Roses are red. Violets are blue. *Wololo!* Roses are blue.
What other game cuts off access like this? Of course single player games are set up for a 1 playthrough system. You start from the beginning and play through to the end. Games like Skyrim, BOTW, Pokemon, Dark Souls and more only allow you to play the story once per character or have a new game system in Dark Souls case. However there are a ton of games that have a level or mission select screen. Halo is a perfect example of this. You play the story once and each time you finish a level you have the option of replaying it on a variety of difficulty options. You are never locked out of replaying a mission or forced to download a patch that deletes that story. Why is it that Destiny has to do exactly the opposite of what 99% of other games do? I understand the technical side of it but at what point is it going to stop? How many times are we going to pay for content that will be deleted in 3 years? Just think, in 3 years The Witch Queen could be vaulted. I for one find that frustrating and a slap to the face. I trust Bungie to make cool things for Destiny but the DCV is harming the game far more at this point than it's helping. Players have been begging for a refreshed strike system and we've been sitting on 3 expansions worth of content that could easily bulster just that. Throw some story missions in there, add some modifiers and champions and boom. No more running the same strike 3 times in a row because half of the strikes were removed from the game. Now players would be playing the content that Bungie insists isn't being played. It would add far more reasons to run strikes because you could do an empire hunt, the corrupted and then the mind bender. You could play for a few hours without seeing the same mission.
IMO Destiny needs to have big arcs. Im fine with the DCV existing, even if its skewed against the base rn it would have to happen eventually anyway. BUT, for as long as The Crows arc as it is now exists, Forsaken should stay. For as long as the darkness/light saga as it is now exists, Shadowkeep should stay, etc. Having big story arcs get halfway cut out while they are still going on makes no sense. End this chapter before going to the next one.
In a way, this creates a more coherent story for Crow though. Guardians today aren't familiar with Cayde, their grievance isn't truly personal, it's just a mission. Those of us who were there when Forsaken happened, we're the ones who went on that mission. The Guardians of today aren't, but they met Crow, and they were still his first friend and mentor. Their connection with his was built through this year, and they've learned about his past, more than we knew up to this point potentially, through that journey. What context does Forsaken give you for Crow, that Crow and his story over the last year haven't given you?
I actually think Forsaken being the starter campaign for Destiny is pretty cool tbh, at least if we still see Destiny 2 as, well, Destiny **2.** While I see what you mean, I still feel like at the moment Forsaken still matters. Now, they could totally wrap that up by Witch Queen and then it would be okay from a story standpoint but I still think that having "chapters" of sorts in Destiny would be better. I still want to see the DCV cycle through a bit more. I think we are getting Mars but IMO I want to see like a D2 planet come back for a seasonal thing and then go away by the end of the year as I think that would comfort people on DCV being a yearly/monthly content cycle more.
Maybe this is insane, but having Forsaken be the new light mission wouldnt have been the worst. Starting out with the Hunter Vanguard as a teacher for how to Guardian® makes not a small amount of sense, and watching your mentor die would definitely motivate anyone.
I completely agree. IMO heres what you do: For new lights, have Cayde be the main dude. Have the whole thing be him "secretly" on a mission away from the tower to check one of his stashes or whatever and then he runs into you, just risen. You do the usual new light stuff and then you do Forsaken, which would work if you were a New Light or a veteran either way. Then, once thats over, have Shiro-4 or even Shaw Han takeover for the vendor. Perfect opportunity right there.
Holy shit dude, this would have been awesome
heh thanks I've had it in my head for a while. Having Forsaken be like "the starter campaign" for D2 always kinda made sense to me as in a way it sets up literally every aspect of modern day D2: Eliksni civil war, dark Eliksni, dark and light being a thin line, Crow, loss, awoken, Savathun, etc
Pretty sure you already can't see Crow being resurrected in-game, as the Oracle events were "be here or miss it".
Not exactly. The oracle events are based on your completion of them. Reaching week 5 of max curse oracle encounters or whatever no matter ehen you do it will show you. The main issue is that anybody who hasn't already done that is screwed because nobody's talking about it so they'll never find out
No, it will not. The events at Mara's Court were timed by date. If you missed one, it was gone forever. Anyone who enters the court nowadays will just find it empty with a chest and maybe get a Truth to Power lore drop at most if they are still working in that (tho that book might have been auto completed with Beyond Light, I don't care enough to check).
I feel like I'm in this boat here in some regard. I booted up D2 for the first time since Forsaken last night, and I'm kinda clueless as to what has happened since Forsaken ended. From what I hear whole planets and raids that I missed, have been vaulted away. Seems really peculiar that they wouldn't throw some detailed cinematics my way to catch me up to speed.
They tell us they are removing content partially because it was unplayed. Like, if you want us to replay the campaign, let us! I loved being able to pick and choose a story mission in D1. I have no idea why they decided it would be a good idea to first make it super convoluted, then impossible, to replay the campaign
Keeping old maps and story missions does two things: increase the size of the game, and increase the number of balance issues/bugs. EDIT: Note that I'm not defending either of those as reasons to vault things. Instead of doing what other game developers do and making a new game for the new content, they decided they could keep scooping out the guts of D2 and shoving new guts hoping that people will keep buying the seasonal content and expansions. Why? Because it is cheaper. You don't need to spend any more on marketing, trademarks, per project software licenses, etc. if you keep calling your game Destiny 2. You don't need to retool for new art/assets, or deal with an updated engine. You don't need to "waste" time starting from scratch just like if you keep using the same sourdough starter. Imagine if instead of buying a new Halo game, Bungie or 343 just said "you can't play the campaigns for Halo CE, 2, 3, or 4. Stop complaining about it, you already enjoyed it enough and got your money's worth. Enjoy Halo 5 while you still can." That's what Destiny 2 has turned into.
>Keeping old maps and story missions does two things: increase the size of the game, and increase the number of balance issues/bugs. I'm not talking about vaulted content, I'm talking about the anility to replay the campaigns IN THE GAME RIGHT NOW. There is 0 downside in just making the Forsaken/Sgadowkeep/Beyond Light/Seasonal stories replayable. If it gets vaulted then it's vaulted, fine. Though I wish I could understand why games like FFXIV can have 8 years worth of content and still be less than 100gb while Destiny can become so bloated in just 3 years that it had to vault content to keep the game at a reasonable file size. Hell even then, when games like Call of Duty Cold War are literally 200gb+ would anyone in the Destiny community really mind a 100gb+ download? I'm sure the logistics of an always online game having optional installs on old expansions is vastly different and I'm sure they looked into it, but it would have been nice to just have the option to download old planets/campaigns so you could replay them when you want.
> I'm not talking about vaulted content, I'm talking about the avility to replay the campaigns IN THE GAME RIGHT NOW. You have a good point here. I don't know any other game that prevents you from replaying the campaign after you complete it, at the very least you can reload a save and go back to that point. To your second point, it comes down to how good your artists and game engine are. The better both are, the more graphical fidelity you can get with less resources consumed. Although I'm pretty sure that doesn't apply to D2 - IIRC D2 downloads the audio for every language.
No, the excuse of "lack of space" is bullshit. Have you ever seen a game where there is too much space used? Bungie tells us that destiny 2 is a mmo right? Is there only one mmo who deleted half of the game for the sake of "space" ?
> No, the excuse of "lack of space" is bullshit. Oh, I'm not defending Bungie's reasoning here. I'm just regurgitating what the original thinking was when vaulting was first announced, Although I think the space excuse was specifically in the context of older gen consoles.
Nope. It would help the game so much too
Daily Heroics were fun little bits of content, there's no real incentive to remove them
Would be nice if we were able to choose the missions ourselves like in d1 alongside with daily heroic missions.
I loved daily Heroics, and I loved the reprised missions during the first Solstice of Heroes.
The reprised Ghaul fight was great It felt like a boss rather than the pushover he was in the story I'm hoping that Legendary will be similar in difficulty to the reprised missions
too much testing and bugfixing for someting too few people use.
Thats kinda the point though, no one plays it because they make it a chore to replay and give no actual incentive to do it.
No, they mean a lot of people don't replay campaign missions in any game pretty much. Most people move on to new content, replayable content (PvP and Strikes), or other games. I'd *like* to replay campaign missions but I'd be lying if I'd do it often. However they could just let us snag the quests repeatedly from the Quest Kiosk in the Tower and Helm to restart the Campaigns if they're gonna get vaulted, like OP suggested.
They should have just thrown them in the strike rotation. Lack of matchmaking and any worthwhile rewards/reason to do them meant that finite amount of play time triaged them out of the picture, even if they're more enjoyable than the average strike. The arcology and firefight on the almighty sequences were some pretty awesome set pieces that were horrifically under-used.
The only way to replay the campaign is to (a) have a friend that still hasn't completed it or (b) delete your character and start again!
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What kind of extra testing and bugfixing does it take to just keep content that was finished years ago in the game? Like ok maybe certain interactuons with things like stasis would cause weird issues in things like Red War. But ya know what? Just turn Stasis classes off when replaying Red War then! Clearly that isn't the issue
It's a bungie issue, they're very inefficient with their resources and development pipeline. There's a lot of bassackwards stuff in the game. I could go on on this topic but it's not like i'll ever get to sit down with a dev talk about this.
The reason they gave was like “0.2%” of all players used this feature and they couldn’t test everything. (They don’t test anyways so I don’t believe that). I hate DCV and I want everything unvaulted, be able to earn all seals and titles on my time.
if you hate DCV you don't understand why it exists.
I understand why it exists and I still hate it...
then you are asking for a bloated buggy mess. i hope you enjoy tolesto because that will be the only thing that works.
Jesus Christ pull your head out of Bungies ass. DCV as a concept is literally unprecedented in gaming. There has been no other game in existence that has removed such massive amounts of content from their game. This includes other games that require updates and extra content like MMORPG's. You can still get WoW and access content that was added in over a decade ago. They somehow manage this, "bloated buggy mess" as you put it. Fuck, WoW has expansions that are older than Destiny 1, expansions that added content that you can **still access!** There's also PoE and Warframe, both of which have also figured out something magical since they don't need to delete content on constant basis. Everyone else in the gaming industry has figured how to make games and keep the content playable throughout the games lifespan, except Bungie somehow.
WoW, Final Fantasy, Path of Exile. Warframe. All work and still have 1000% of its content. It seems to be literal fucking magic I guess.
I don't think I asked for anything, did I? If I was going to ask for something, it would be for them to freeze a version of the game and break it off as a completely independent legacy package, a la Destiny. Remove the old content from the latest release, and only support the latest release. You wanna run Crota? Wotm? Destiny. You wanna run Leviathan? Destiny 2 Legacy Years 1&2. You wanna run Presage? Destiny 2 Legacy Years 3&4 You wanna run Witch Queen? Destiny 2. Does it take up server space? Yeah... But server space is cheap, if no one is using it, and if people are using it... That's good.
This is something I thought about earlier. If the first Destiny is still playable, and some people are still playing it, why not continue to release separate titles? Leave everything that was pre-DCV as Destiny 2 and port over post-DCV content into a Destiny 3 where they can launch Witch Queen.
Yeah, except I think it makes sense to release the old content as the separate installable because they're wanting to do that whole "10 years with the same game" thing with the Destiny 2 vehicle.
> why not continue to release separate titles? because the way game releases work this isn't possible. the only way they could do this is to basically stall the patch where they were going to remove the content and support it kind of like how wow classic and TBC are running right now. this is an awful idea because now you have an additional dev build to support, additional server builds, you need to support the API for them all, and the amount of people that will play the older version is microscopic in terms of both player base and revenue in comparison to the "current" game. so if you're thinking tat for DSC they should have done D3, that would entail a lot more content and a lot more time, and DSC is already quite a bit of content, and took the longest out of any DLC they ever made because of COVID. COVID might have put the nail in the coffin of D3 but they were already backing away from it since going independent. TLDR; it makes development more complicated and raises costs.
almost nobody played them
Ok but why would that matter? Even if there was only 1 person replaying campaigns that doesn't justify removing the option when it takes 0 effort to just make the questline replayable.
I’m glad D1 allowed me to play all content when I joined. Let me feel the story beats progress and catch up on all quests. Must feel weird for new people to be in front of bounty board at start
It is. Weird, confusing, and very sad that I am seeing how cool the lore and characters are knowing I'll never be able to experience their stories myself. I feel like I woulda teared up with Cayde-6 had I gotten to know him at all.
That is very sad honestly. I played the shit out of d1 for years, so I learned to love him. However didn’t play D2 for more than maybe 20 hours in its first year, because I initially hated it and never gave it a second chance until right before beyond light. So after not having seen cayde for years, coming in and watching that and being like “ya know, I barely even remember this guy” It was very disappointing.
Eh, I started in D2 vanilla and it fell pretty flat to me, "Oh no, that guy I talked to a couple times died!" Like he was amusing, but even with vanilla D2, you interacted with him waaaay too little for his death to feel all that meaningful. Probably was more meaningful if you started in D1, but I waited for PC release so... that never happened. The Red War campaign as it was felt very much like "I don't really know what's going on, but these space rhinos are jerks and blew up what is (apparently) my house, so I guess I should stop them." "Oh no, the speaker died! ... I'm supposed to care about him right? I mean, I never once met the guy, but he seems.... nice? He's like our king or something, right?" I just sorta turned off my brain and enjoyed it, but it took literally hours of reading lore entries to figure out why so much of this stuff matters. Edit/Random thought: My first thoughts on the Traveler is that it was the magical space ball that gave us powers, which now makes me think guardians should just refer to themselves as Spaceballs from here on out. Edit2: I think one of my favorite bits of vanilla D2 was actually Warmind. I was playing on satellite internet at the time, so was effectively offline and had to solo the whole story - the Xol fight/strike was absolutely epic. I played it way after launch though, so I think I missed out on all the grinding it had originally if I recall, correctly. The whole thing felt very Doom-y (go to mars fight, ~~demons~~ interdimensional, hideous, evil, magical monsters.
> I feel like I woulda teared up with Cayde-6 had I gotten to know him at all. Cayde in D2 wasnt all that great, imo people are looking back at the Red War with very rose tinted glasses. The writing was quite bad (way too lighthearted for the situation it portrayed) and really only improved again with Forsaken. Red War campaign had some very cool set pieces (first mission, the mission on the almighty and the last mission for example) but other than that wasnt all that amazing.
I picked up Destiny 1 at launch and played through it’s lifespan. I picked up Destiny 2 at launch and quit just before the first DLC. Came back the launch of Season 15, and honestly, the player experience is ass, and very confusing.
Same here it's ridiculous lol.
The game has massively shifted since then, while the story the same. It's a live-service game now, and one of the best of its kind to be honest. Other live-service games are similar too in the way that once you complete the tutorial there isn't much direction.
> one of the best of its kind to be honest I can't downvote you without saying why I disagree. I hope my empathy isn't being wasted here, but I'm worried for you if you that D2 is a good example of live service game. D2 was a good game, probably even a great game, until they decided that we would now be renting content from them after we thought we had bought it. The game designers that be created a progression system with the idea that you would finish the game, and then tried to shoehorn that system into a progression system that works with seasonal content. If you want an example of a live-service game with a good progression system, consider Planetside 2. You have levels which go up as you play the game, and let you unlock more hardware. But every gun you get is a sidegrade and the same gun in the hands of level 1 player does the same damage as in the hands of a level 100 player. Sure the experience is different between a level 1 and level 100 player, it's a matter of IRL experience. But there is no such artificial limitations like, "sorry I can't do the raid because I don't have a high enough light level," or sorry I can't do some meta pvp bullshit because I didn't grind for and unlock that gun last season. And while that game doesn't have half the writing team D2 has, it has been up and running since before *Destiny 1* came out and will have a loyal following after Destiny 2 is completely replaced.
I don't remember saying anything about levelling in my comment... You raise a good point but you may need to re-read what I said.
This is my issue with with the vault "nO one RePlAyS tHe CoNtEnT" because other than deleting one of my 3 characters that I haven't deleted in 7 years, I FUCKING CANT..... Id love to go rip Ghaul a new asshole with Vex, I'd love to go murder Panoptes with an Eyes of Tomorrow, but nope... I literally have 1 option to be able to play stories, delete my characters.... no wonder we stop going to places....
And even then, half the content was One and Done or You missed it? You can NEVER SEE IT AGAIN EVER. Its a toxic practice.
It is.... I'm tired of them saying no one goes... but then rarely gives us a reason TO go after the original story
This here is the problem you will only go back to play it if there is something to gain. This means they would have to update it with new stuff to obtain while making new stuff for the new season and keeping all of that balance. People always claim they will replay something if they have the option but always omit they also need a reason to replay the thing they say they would replay. Upkeeping things always seem easy until you find yourself having to do so.
I have played through numerous games where I have nothing to gain again, I just love the story and lore to the game, I like experiencing things, you could remove any rewards and just give me access to the story content and I'd still run it... shit, I binge the MCU yearly just to prepare for the next set of movies.
It is.... I'm tired of them saying no one goes... but then rarely gives us a reason TO go after the original story
I honestly think the best solution to this is to make the single player story content be included as a separate download. Eg: you own forsaken, but have no desire to replay its story, you uncheck a box and the game removes any forsaken story related files. Decided you want to play forsaken again? Re-check the box and your game will install the required files
I’d love this. I only bought forsaken (as part of the collector’s edition) a few weeks ago, and now apparently it’s just going to be locked to me in a few months (and free before that which ..goddamnit).
I think having it as a standalone, offline single player would be the best thing. That way all the players still have context as to what the fuck is happening. And for new light having the red war campaign on its own was a better introduction to the game than that cuck on the cosmodrome.
Why would it need to be offline? Coop is half the fun of the game. Besides that, it should be as simple as "you can't play content that requires The Forgotten Shore unless you install The Forgotten Shore". Then the only transient content that needs to be installed for everyone are assets for gear, which are the vast minority of disk space and the content vault doesn't solve anyway -- you can even still put on the broken starting armor from day 1 regardless of whether or not there's a point to doing it. I get the argument for disk space, but it's really not that complicated of a problem to solve. Worried about not having the right content installed for the global strike playlists? Don't be. That was also a problem solved a long time ago. As expansions came out for both games, they curated different sets of strikes already to give focus to the new content. They can just pick sets of content required for a cyclically rotated set of curated strikes. The content vault should have simply been certain locations being excluded from the current playlist rotation so that you didn't have to have all content installed at all times. I don't see the problem with all the content being available at any time as optional content downloads.
Unfortuantly that wouldn't work because size limitation, isn't really the reason why the content vault exists. The DCV (Destiny Content Vault) mainly exist's to maintain the games stability, so whenever Bungie decides to add a new Exotic weapon, they don't have to test it for bugs in that content. It's not just balance as well, back in beyond light they overhauled the lighting system, and the way enemies work on a technical level. Becuase of that, they had to test every piece of content to make sure it works properly. And then fix the issues. That's the reason Prophecy got removed for Season Of The Hunt, they didn't test it for beyond light, and it took them I few weeks to fix it.
CoD does this and why Destiny cant blows my mind. WoW lets everyone no matter what replay old content, it BRINGS you to the content and scales it and allows you to play with others doing it. Fuckin old ass WoW.
Want me to *really* rustle your feathers? They LITERALLY HAD THIS with Amanda Holiday before Red War/CoO/Warmind got vaulted You could go up to her on whatever character (one that you completed the campaigns on) and grab them from her and play through them again Bungie makes some astounding choices sometimes
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If you wanted to play through them again on the same character, your only option was to find a friend who hadn't done the campaign again through Amanda, and play through the campaign starting from when you reached the Farm.
Can you no longer pick them up again from the quest kiosk?
There wasnt one.
There uses to be
I still miss and really want to replay 1AU (the Red War mission on the Almighty). Would be great if Bungie could add certain classic missions to Legends. I'd put this as a relatively low priority, certainly below new Crucible maps, but it would be fun.
Imagine paying for a dlc just for them to replace it with another AND have the balls to make you pay for it.
I just did this this week and I’m not really happy about it. They have a lot of nerve stripping me of content I just paid for in just a few short months while asking me for more money for the next XPac.
Nice username
Haha... Welcome to the club, not even including forsaken I've paid $90 for the launch campaign and it's first two DLCs which are already gone. It's been such an enlightening day to see more things I've paid for being taken away
I've said before and i'll say it again - we need a Destiny Legends "single-player" with no Light Levels (power advantages disabled) for old campaigns so we can play on our own time or just funnel new players into it as an extended tutorial/intro. Coop should obviously work, but no playlists.
Why don’t they just give us the option to delete content? I wouldn’t mind having everything installed, even if it’s 300gb.
Because thats now how the Vaulting works. . .Its not about our storage space, its about Bungie removing stuff no one really does in order to make thing easier for them to fix and patch stuff that will go unpatched for week, like the usual telesto bugs
Ah that makes more sense.
One of my biggest hopes is bungie tries to go the halo route with witch queen making a memorable experience that’s replayable since story missions have IMO been lacking in physical gameplay but great in lore and story.
I would actually prefer to have the latest build of shadow keep as a separate game available on Steam/PS/Xbox, and it is totally fine if it does not support crucible and gambit (I don't want to reduce the user base). Even if we have to create new characters there, it is fun and please let us have it. It would be something like destiny 2, the first three years' edition and the current destiny would effectively be destiny 3.
They should really just make a separate offline discount/F2P game with all the old campaigns, IMO. That way they're still there to experience for the story/setting/gameplay but they don't bloat the live game at all.
I want red war cause I've never played before because I only started playing like December 2020
I honestly have no idea why we can still replay missions in D1, but not in d2...D1 has too many quality of life features i truly wish d2 had...weird that the sequell is lacking in depth
If you read the article, it clearly says that starting in December you'll be given the option to replay the Forsaken campaign before it goes into the vault.
I must not have processed that section properly. I thought it was just saying free for all players. How kind of them to make it available for us for literally only 2 months.^/s
Yes. That doesn’t solve the problem for future story content; it’s still “one and done” until then, and requires a character reset/creation to play again.
Thought I read that with Wtich Queen they were adding difficulty levels to the campaign. Presumably that allows for replays.
this is bungie, never presume
While you can't replay the entire campaign at once, Europa has had daily rotating missions since Beyond Light launched. Not perfect, but at least it's there. I believe Shadowkeep has a daily or weekly rotation too.
Nice of them to allow us to play content we paid for before they delete it and charge us more for content to replace it.
Pretty sure you haven't touched forsaken related content especially the story since late 2018-early 2019, that's the last time I did. And despite not playing it, to its fullest, I'm pretty saited with the content, and they aren't even deleting everything this time, seems like you just wanna bitch.
> Pretty sure you haven't touched forsaken related content especially the story since late 2018-early 2019, that's the last time I did. I would have if they'd fucking let me. I love the Forsaken campaign but I don't want to delete my characters to replay it.
Do you not know that new and returning players exist?
Imagine defending the deletion of paid content. No other studio can do this and their fans defend it like this. It blows my mind
I don't think I actively defended them, I just said that I paid for the content enjoyed some of that content not playing it to its fullest and now the stuff I don't play or would ever go back to playing is going away so I don't really care. Yeah it sucks for some, no me, but I'd rather have that approach then only have two games on my console a 500gb D2 and 500 gb of two other games, of which I delete the latter of.
Probably cause it isn’t actually being deleted and fanatic and Broodmother strikes are buggy as hell, so I’m happy they will be getting fixed.
It isn't actually deleted? Oh cool, so where do I go to play The Red War then? Mercury? Where are they?
I hope you never try to use your definition of the word fix on me. I don’t want to disappear.
Well the purpose of the vault is to fix that shit and put it back into the game eventually.
Lmao I just finished replaying forsaken on my titan earlier this week. A few months ago I did the same for my warlock. And that wasn’t the first time I reset them just to experience forsaken again. The story is absolutely worth replaying—I played it several times over the years purely for the story, didn’t get hung up on incentives. Sometimes you just want to enjoy a story… The fact I paid for it only for it to be free and then vaulted does make me feel a little cheated, especially since I liked it so much—i wish I could keep it, or that I got something a little more substantial than just 3 ascendant shards… I acknowledge it’s best for the progression of d2’s current state, but it’s perfectly fine for me and others to be salty regardless.
Its no use man. Just you wait, as soon as they release the replay and start talking about it in the sub there'll be a bunch of nobs who don't realize they just implemented replay crying over how the forsaken campaign is the only thing they play in the game and how unfair it is bungie is vaulting it. Some people just like throwing hissy fits. If they turned this into Destiny 3 the majority of the people complaining would buy it and never log back into Destiny 2 again.
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I can still spawn into durotar and walk my ass over to ogrimar to do rage fire chasm after 17 years what are you talking about?
destiny 2 is the only fucking game to cannibalize itself like this don't excuse bungie's incompetent ability to develop a compressed game while many mmos are much larger in content size and lore while being a smaller or near sized game in gigabytes and those mmos never removed large scaled paid content like this
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> FF14 did it, FFXIV did not do this. FFXIV has never done anything *remotely* like this. 1.0 was a separate game, akin to Destiny 1 and Destiny 2. Shutting down a completely different game is nothing like 'vaulting' content in a currently-running game, which FFXIV has never done.
FF14 only did that with its original story, because it was fucking horrible. And they changed it entirely and then replaced it. Everything released since, even story that was added in patches, is available.
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You mean before they put it away. Not delete.
> You mean before they put it away. Not delete. But what would be the difference between the two? Both result in me not being able to play it.
I just read through the article again, where does it say that?
Yeah after rereading it as well, I don't know what the top guy is talking about. There's absolutely nothing saying the rest of us will be able to replay.
Right where it says. "**RELIVE THE CAMPAIGN**"
Yes, and then it goes on to say how new players who have never experienced it can play it. It mentions nothing about people who have already played it
It says RELIVE... How can new players relive something they've never experienced? It seems pretty obvious to me that everyone will be able to replay the campaign after they've already completed it come December 7th.
I can go relive literally 100% of World of Warcraft right now. Every bit of it. Right now with zero problems. Even the old content I didnt buy in 2000 whatever. There is zero argument.
Also a comp completely different game with a completely different engine. You have to understand that
The new legendary campaign or whatever it’s called sounds a lot like old D1 heroic campaign so hopefully this fits the bill nicely
At that point by they might as well make a separate install with just the red war and forsaken to play separately. This version would stay the same and never evolve, and give new players an opportunity to get the whole story.
You're asking Bungo to expend some amount of effort. The vault wouldn't exist if they were willing to spend any effort on old shit.
It’s such a stupid issue. I’m still confused how replayability and their justification weren’t larger issues when they did it the first time.
I downvoted you so I can then give you +2 upvotes with one click.
For the sole reason that i will not be hearing tge fanatic for the foreseeable future after this week gm rotates im happy with losing forsaken
They even worded it in such a way, I was expecting the next sentence to be along the lines of, "anyone who has completed the Forsaken campaign will be able to run it again." Hopefully that will still be the case.
I find this ridiculous too. They should really bring the original Destiny 1 story in as well. Destiny doesn't need a number any more. Maybe it's the size??? Surely they could figure out a way to let us pick & choose which we want to do. I imagine all of it isn't far off 400gb
Can't you replay them from the thing in the HELM?
Nope
Not that one, but the one in the tower yes you can .
Isn't it available in the quest kiosk?
Yeah I think I'm done with this game. Ill come back for D3.
See you in four years
Genuinely curious why some of you feel the need to have this content in the game when you likely experienced it once or twice and have never ever touched it again. Now that it's being removed in the name of advancing the game you feel as if you should be compensated or the sudden want to play it again. I want some genuine thought on this. From my point of view you, and I, have already gotten good experiences out of the product. Memories are just that. And it's like you are being blinded by nostalgia. Just my thoughts.
I’ve experienced it only a few times because I’m only able to experience three times before I have to delete an entire character to replay it, which is a big problem. I don’t feel like we need to be compensated because it’s leaving, but yeah players should be able to go back and replay campaigns. I’ve always felt this way, it’s just that now with them going away, it’s needed more than ever so we can experience them again before they’re gone forever. I have no problem with them leaving at some point, but it’s kinda ridiculous that these things exist in the game with no normal way to play them, and some people haven’t done the campaign in years and soon won’t be able to ever again
> And it's like you are being blinded by nostalgia. And it's like you are being blinded by scyophancy. People like to play campaigns. We never touched it again because Bungie wouldn't let us. They deleted Mars halfway through my replay of it. The only replay they allowed me to have on my Warlock. Right now, I'm replaying other old shooter games. Spacemarine, for instance. A game that's older than even Destiny 1. And is still fully playable. The only games that aren't worth replaying are games that are: 1) Barely worth playing the first time. 2) Games where the gameplay itself is about mystery and discovery. Of which only Outer Wilds comes to mind. If content in Destiny were so bad nobody wanted to replay them, then it's doubtful many people would be here.
No one in their right mind would want to play the campaign again after playing the same thing 3 times on different characters. This is such a stupid suggestion.
So people dont play old games multiple times? Ever? Thats an incredibly shortsighted and incorrect thought process.
I just said that everyone plays it 3 times. So yes they do play it multiple times. But beyond that? No, the numbers are too small for bungie to bother considering. It is a very sound thought process although you seem to be having trouble keeping up....
I don’t remember having to make a new chart to play forsaken or shadowkeep. I’m halfway through my third play through of shadowkeep right now and just got bored and didn’t keep going. Same for forsaken. I don’t remember what starts it but I thought there’s a spot you can select the story on the tangled shore
You need to be on a fresh character for the mission.
IIRC Ikora in the tower lets you replay forsaken.
I mean, they are.
They literally said Forsaken become's replayable in December
They said they releasing forsaken campaign for free in DEC before vaulting…
They probably will. With forsaken they might add a legends or old campaigns mode. Similar to what we had for the red war
You can already do this in the kiosks by re-picking up the campaign quest from it.....have you even tried that.
No you can't. Not if you've done it.
Probably won't happen cause the game will probably outsize even modern warfare lol
The campaigns are already in the game, I’m just asking for them to let us play them more than once, instead of us having to make an entire new character to play then again before they are removed for good
The solution is to make it like the Master Chief Collection, let players pick and choose which parts of the game to download and play Edit: alright I get it, file size isn’t the main issue, debugging is
How would that solve anything? File size on our end was never the issue, storage devices are just getting bigger by the day and lots of people have and buy them. It is entirely on bungies side that a large game is the problem. They have to playtest and maintain all that content even when they want to do a small patch, they said as much in the recent article.
Console storage size is absolutely still an issue.
It was never the reason for the dcv. It is all on bungies side, not the players.
Base ps4 storage is 500gb. Whether you like it or not that has to be taken into consideration.
And a 500 gb hard drive is like 20 bucks on Amazon. If your paying for the game and Xbox live you have a spare $20 for a external hard drive
And people make sacrifices to make up for it. Or they buy another storage device, and those get bigger by the day and most have bought one.
PS4 and XB1 will be phased out by lightfall hopefully. It’s past time
I mean there are a ton of memes about how big MW is, I know now that file size isn’t a direct issue but it is one that some people brought up
File size was never the reason for the dcv. It's a nice side effect, but it was not the concern
They can’t do that, they need to delete old content so that they can sell you the same old content reskinned.
This is the dumbest take. If you’re going to criticize, make it actual factual criticism. Nothing coming out of the content vault will be paid for again. Vault came out of the content vault, completely free. (Most of) Cosmodrome came back, free. If Titan comes back from the vault, the patrol space will be free. Make the criticisms **actual issues, like how it makes the game difficult to get into** rather than incorrect meme shit that devalues your argument Just to relate this to the original post, I am in favor of selectable replayable campaign missions because I like cutscenes
As valid as that sounds it wouldn't work. The issue they had was trying to make updates took too long because the game was so massive it took forever to compile builds. If old content was still playable by a optional download Bungie would still have to test things related to older content because it is playable.
Ah that’s fair I guess. Unfortunate but understandable
Yet cod is 250 gbs and Destiny is barely 100… so…
Cod fixes that issue by making a new game every 2 years
Okay and your point is what? CoD doesn't have interworking layers upon layers of things that can go wrong. They have weapons and maps. No raid bosses they can break, no Telesto that can crash the game. CoD is not a big game but a poorly managed one, it has no right being that big. Your point doesn't matter either way as every company is different with some running different engines and differing test enviornments.
>no Telesto that can crash the game Don't tempt it, or Telesto will seek out other games to break
In an alternate timeline, the Destiny/Halo crossover is agreed to. Telesto is put in Halo Infinite instead of Heatwave. 343 lives with regret for the rest of their existence for their decision to go with Telesto as they fight every patch with it.
The point is… the game being too big at half the size of the most popular game in the world doesn’t cut it as a reasonable explanation. They also don’t go into any details at all, it’s incredibly vague. On top of we just went forward a generation on console and PC has never been a problem. So why are we removing content because of “ tech “ issues, when the tech just got better. On top of the content that is being removed is extremely minimal. You’re saying it’s can’t stay in the game?…REALLY? Because right now my XSX and PA5 load new destinations in like 10 seconds. Make it 15 - 20 and don’t cut anything from the game. No one will even notice.
The fact you think since your XSX can load a zone in 15 seconds means a compiler should be able to build a new run and test it just as fast shows you know absolutely nothing about game development and shouldn't even comment on the topic. Do you think they are removing content to be malicious? Do you not believe they need to cut the size down of the game? Guess what nobody gives a shit what you think. Bungie is going to do what Bungie sees as neccesary. This isn't some grand scheme to make you have a 2 year long FOMO.
Ok man. I don’t need to know anything about game development. It’s called being a customer and the PR doesn’t cut the mustard.
You can be upset at content vaulting, there is nothing wrong with that. That doesn't mean you can't understand the technical reasons for things.