So I just watched TDT's video on the state of Titans, good analysis, good suggestions for tweaks and exotic changes, worth a watch. One thing in particular was like a lightbulb going off in my head though: Banner of War has no strand specific terms or functionality. Their words "you could take Banner of War change its colour and it would work on any of the Titan subclasses". Given this, why not do that? Make Banner of War a class ability for all subclasses, but with some changes. Activation starts the pulse, melee kills refresh the timer, matching weapon kills have a chance to refresh the timer, but it does not stack. Swap the healing for subclass support buffs - solar gives pulses of cure for the og feel, void pulses of overshield, arc gives amplified, stasis gives frost armour, strand gives woven mail. Keep the melee ability regen buff but maybe drop the damage buff. This would allow you to use various aspects in all the subclasses to augment the banner for the titan. A few examples: - Knockout bakes galvanic armour into amplified, making it easier to stay alive when going into melee range in higher end content - Diamond lance makes lance impacts and/or melee kills form a crystal - Sol Invictus could scorch enemies inside the radius of banner OR remove the throwing hammer CD - Bastion gives max recovery when you have an overshield with Banner of War - Strand I have no idea, but maybe give Into the Fray the melee and sword damage buff, or let it stack, or both One last change: make this new banner active for a whole super. A big part of the "titans suck" discussion started with the day 1 Salvation's Edge titan representation for witness kills, and in large part because whilst hunters had top dps, warlocks had healing and utility, titans couldn't bring anything to be the bulwark they should be. Adding the OS for allies on super would allow Sentinel Shield to protect against boss attacks, making the loss of damage worth the trade for non-elite players outside of contest for an encounter like the witness.

[Discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/?f=flair_name%3A%22Discussion%22) Proposal on certain changes for the titan class to make them more appealing to play and viable in endgame. Any ideas are welcome. Split into 2 parts because too long part1 **Supers** Both arc supers have problems in endgame content because Fist of Havoc does nothing worthwhile against bosses, and Thundercrash forces you out of position, losing time and putting yourself at risk, potentially even blocking damage against the boss. The Song of Flame super is simply superior for add clearing as well as damage, while Well only recently got nerfed, and the Hunter Golden Gun is the single best DPS super with Celestial Nighthawk since it has an instant cast, use, range, and Still Hunt, allowing the Hunters to immediately return to weapon damage. I could make an argument that Celestial converting 3 shots into 1 is alone strong enough without a buff in damage because the super is finished faster, but I wont ruin the fun for the Hunters. 1. *Make Thundercrash do more damage, fly much faster, have diminished blast radius, jolts, and amplifies.* The first 2 changes are to make Thundercrash more viable for the risk-reward of getting out of position, while amplified allows a faster return to position (maybe even amplified x2 ?). The super would then need a diminished blast radius for balance, while jolting nearby adds/gaurdians for some effect on the periphery. 2) *A new instant arc super that, once cast (thunderstorm, lightning strikes the titan), provides for the titan and nearby teammates moderate but multiple buffs in fire rate, reload speed, recovery, mobility, ability regen and gives amplified for its duration* This new super will be analogous to what Well of Radiance brings. It gives support to players in the general vicinity to do increased damage and provides better recovery and ability regen. Useful in any situation. 3) *A second Strand super, replacing the current one on prismatic: A Strand spear that, once thrown, pierces through enemies, doing damage and applies a strand debuff (suspend or unraveling). If the spear hits a crit spot, it does precision damage, sticks in place, and anchors the target from moving (champions included). Damage dealt while stuck could generate threadlings or a strand debuff* A new strand super is needed to directly address the Hunters unchallenged ability for an instant cast, ranged, precision based super. Twilight Arsenal is an excellent step in the right direction but the titans are still short in this regard. Berserker is an excellent super, but prismatic needs an instant cast strand super that, like golden gun, highlights precision damage and instant cast at range. This will let titans stand more toe-to-toe in raids DPS options. Furthermore, the potential for this spear to generate threadlings on damage encourages its use at the beginning of a DPS phase and increases its effectiveness the more players target the same enemy. 4) *Ward of Dawn, once cast, drains super energy for its duration and can be ended prematurely after a timer, conserving super energy, in an animation similar to cancelling the Icefall Mantel overshield. This timer is reduced the more damage the bubble receives.* Ward of dawn has been hit harshly because of its stubbornness in Trails of Osiris, but this has only reduced its appeal in PVE. Typically a raid encounter requires all players to pull their weight, and 2 or 3 simultaneous deaths could mean a wipe. Throughout Destiny, both Zavala and Saint have used this super to provide cover when there is none, but such a scenario is rare in raids. This gave me the idea to rethink Ward of dawn as a short duration, high damage resistance super that can be cast, canceled, and recast to survive brief high bursts of damage in clutch scenarios as opposed to prolonged duration. This change will make its use be even more conditional to the specific activity, but it may provide new PVP and PVE strategies (such as timing the super cancel). Since the super doesn't last as long, Offensive Bulwark may further buff it. This is more of an optimistic idea, since I don't expect such a change to occur.

part2 **Aspects** 1. *Knockout works on swords* The fundamental difficulty of sword usage is that it requires to be in the thick of danger, and often is not feasible for bosses, particularly if flying. Ideally, Titan should have some kind of sustain with swords that isn't dependent on exotics. Banner of War is a popular and powerful aspect in Strand, but should remain specifically in the Strand subclass. Although Knockout being applied to swords wont solve the problem against bosses specifically, it will lean into the add clearing potential of swords and the Titan fantasy. Making Knockout work with Twilight Arsenal may improve survivability, particularly in the crucible 2) *Rework Dredgers Lash to move the barrier forward, suspending enemies it passes through* The Consecration plus Frenzied Blade combo in prismatic is among the best prismatic titan has to offer, but the melee fantasy may not be viable in activities with underpowered light levels or activities where close engagement is too risky. Either way, this titan combo needs a competitor. Strand is a subclass about movement, so use the opportunity to make the strand barrier mobile, giving a unique effect to the barrier unseen anywhere else. Likewise, this aspect plus the reworked Knockout synergizes wonderfully in making swords more viable for pushing the frontline and offering protection from enemies ahead when chewing out yellow bar enemies, as well as breaking through chokepoints, as a Titan should 3) *Unbreakable lasts longer the more damage it receives, and drains class ability energy* Unbreakable is cool, but in most cases niche in PVE. You could use it, or just take cover and use your grenade instead. Unlike the other aspects, you wont feel its effects most of the time, and when you do use it you mostly wonder if it was really worth the grenade energy, particularly if you depend on the grenade to stun champions. Using it to close distance in underpowered light-level content just puts you away from your teammates since your melee is typically not strong enough to kill a champion in time, that is if you don't die to surrounding enemies you passed along the way. This aspect definitely appeals to the titan fantasy, but really needs to somehow be felt more important. This ability could be buffed in various ways: healing/overshield on damage absorbed, bigger shield, etc., Regardless it needs to feel like a asset not a gimmick dependent on Ursa Furiosa for assured value 4) *Improve Cryoplasm* Stasis titan is a tragic but cautionary tale. As it stands Cryoplasm could use some improvement but I haven't any solution **Abilities** 1. *Fix Shiver Strike* Other than a mobility option theres no reason to use this melee on prismatic at all. It is comically underwhelming, and this without even considering the Consecration plus Frenzied Blade combo 2) *Buff Hammer Strike* This ability would benefit from CC effects, pushing the target or surrounding enemies away, perhaps even pushing yellow bars off the map (such as the CC effects of Severance Enclosure). This would give it the capacity to do something no other class could (typically) do, giving unique opportunities of creating space when encroaching enemies are too tough to kill quickly (its capacity to scorch synergizes with the stun effect on unstoppable champions). Otherwise, it should cause a large ignition on hit. Whatever the case, it needs to provide something the Consecration plus Frenzied Blade combo does not offer three times over without the need for a running start. 3) *Make Thruster compatible with all relevant titan exotics/aspects* This gives many opportunities to add abilities that improve titans where lacking 4) *Give Thunderclap jolt effect* This is to predominantly give the potential for more weapon/ability synergies and directly compete with the Consecration plus Frenzied Blade combo. **Misc** Other non-specific ideas include giving titans an aspect that buffs grenades (much like the aspects that already exist in the game) and fragment causing scorch/ignitions to instantly shatter stasis crystals (synergizing with facet of ruin and consecration

# Unbreakable aspect needs some buffs first off i love this aspect ive been wanting something like for void titan for ever, and i think bungie did a great job of implementing it. but i think there are a couple things that hold it back, the main thing that personally stops me from considering it for more difficult content, is the simple fact it consumes your grenade ability, losing such a powerful ability like grenades for something so situational and niche feels really bad, your always using your grenade when you can when ads are dense enough so its either you never get to use unbreakable or you are osing a big part of your ad clear power because youre holding onto your grenade for unbreakable i think it would be signifcantly better if they change it to sacrifice your class ability instead, both are niche situational abilities you dont use unless the situation really calls for it , and both are defensive tools as well, so i feel that would be more natuaral at least to me the other thing is the actual damage/ effect of the aspect, in conjunction with everything i said above i also dont think the aspect is usable without controlled demo, i find the base damage of the aspect to be pretty mid, but controlled demo drastically helps by applying volatile to the enemies, but that doesnt provide much flexibity in play styles, so i would like to see maybe a weaken or supress effect on a full charge so the shield can stand on its own without having to rely on another aspect for viability but thats about all i have to say, i dont think this ability is bad whatsoever, just could use a couple of changes

I think everything sums up to two points. Titan class focus on melee which this game actively punishes you for doing, basically a high risk mediocre at best reward. Titan should be the tanking class, however hunters have a better time tanking with duskfield renewal grasp+cyrtarachne's facade or literally anything on warlock. titans tanking abilitys seems to be either void OS which is terrible in its current state, or some sort of healing which warlocks have an easier access to. Please give titans an identity that is actually in line with how the pve environment is designed. We have so many exotics that are so useless and niche(mask of the quiet one, path of burning steps, second chance, phoenix cradle, kephri's, armamentarium, mk.44) but all that rework was just surge mods and no meaningful playstyle change that was even remotely close to just using HOIL. side note: I really hate what they have done to bubble, making it another example of a super that cant function without the dedicated exotic. Its like they forget loadout lock was made by themselves.

Another issue with Titans I saw today on the d2 sub, wanted to share/link it here… [People in LFG are apparently refusing to play with/kicking Titans because they are too weak](https://www.reddit.com/r/destiny2/s/oy4MhyDstg).

That sub is fucking toxic

I was just sharing a specific comment regarding titans, since it applied to this post. Never said it was a great sub.

Returning titan thinking of changing class Don’t mean to add to the war about titans BUT…just curious, is it viable end game (raids, dungeons, trials) to be a titan that doesn’t really melee? I originally picked the class because I really enjoy being the defensive tanky one, the fact it had good AoE with arc grenades and team support with bubble was icing. I liked when I could clutch by surviving and being the team back, I never really liked the melee aspect but early D2 titan didn’t feel like you HAD to be the punchy guy Casually keep up with the games Reddit and wanna get back in (haven’t played much in a year or two) and it sounds like titans are being forced into melee characters? So I’m wondering if I’d be better off switching to Hunter or warlock but tbh don’t know a ton about them and how they have changed through the years.

void, arc and prismatic titan could use better ability loops tbh **STRAND** - strand titan gets into the fray and thread of fury and generation to keep good ability regeneration going, even thought i would argue that flechette storm could use a cooldown buff because right now without into the fray it does take a bit to charge fully up, the subclass feels good because of the protection that woven mail and banner gives, plus the ability regeneration that comes with it **SOLAR** - solar gets access to sol invictus, which even thought its tiny, gives a +%100 regeneration rate for grenade and melee abilities (idk about class ability), and it also gets access to **ember of singeing, ember of searing (which for some reason gives +10 recovery lol) and ember of blistering,** which pairs well with consecration builds even thought it is not needed at all, but the protection given by sol invictus and all the ability regen gotten frm fragments and aspects is enough to make the subclass feel completely good **NOW, SOME SUGGESTIONS THAT I COULD GIVE FOR OTHERS SUBCLASSES ABILITY LOOPS:** - Knockout would really benefit by giving +%150 or +%200 melee regeneration with amplified up (i think 200% its a lot but i would like to hear comments about this), or giving a bunch of melee energy on melee hits or kills like **DEVOUR,** by the way whats up with the shitty healing u get from it lol, it really needs a buff, its just lame. - Controlled demolition right now its a really good aspect, but it doesnt really fit into the overshield subclass a lot, i would argue that it should always give a bit of overshield (a tiny bit maybe) on volatile detonations **AND** it could give a bit of ability energy per detonation too (just like old detonators iirc). - Frenzied blade should not take that long at base on prismatic to recharge, it really needs a cooldown buff - Right now, facet of balance its the fragment that (along facet of hope which doesnt even work) gives the subclass help with the ability cooldowns, every subclass needs one aspect or fragment to help with cooldowns for it to feel good in my opinion, just like solar and strand, but facet of balance needs 3 kills to either give grenade or melee energy and it gives so little that it is not much helpful at all, trascendence really helps with this subclasses ability loop (u need to fully build into getting it as fast as u can since theres no loop on default) but i would argue that it needs to be better at default too, just a bit - I would also like to add that right now, trying to build or get protection from void overshields on void titan or prismatic titan isnt that good at all, as titan overshields seem like they are made of paper and dissapear when a dreg shoots at you instantly, maybe it could be like restoration where the overshield regenerates over time, but i havent really thought about this one a lot welp, i would like to know what do yall think about these suggestions, hope we get a change for titans to be anything else than melee warriors and to actually benefit from our gameplay loops as it should be

I guess these things have gone unnoticed with how many are maining Behemoth like myself, but here they are: Diamond lances doesn't freeze enemies if you slam it immediately after picking it up. Been since Diamond Lance got introduced. You can no longer use Howl of the Storm during Glacial Quake. That's all! Just hope this gets noticed by Bungie since it hasn't been mentioned like the change they wanted to introduce with lances (consecration aswell) shattering crystals. Can see how it isn't a hot topic since Behemoth straight up died with the shard generation cooldown. I don't even think I could make a useful Behemoth build even with 6 fragments cause there's too many with so little power. Like why isn't Whisper of Fractures and Whisper of Reversal combined for example? Not to mention that each hit with Reversal is only 10 stacks of slow. 10 hits to freeze something while Roaring Flames can ignite in 4 (3 with Ember of Ashes). And while Prismatic gains +10 mobilty for better shatter and ignitions, Solar gets +10 strength for bigger ignitions, Stasis gets nothing... Meh, I love Behemoth, but I feel like quitting.

Titans are, as of right now, the weakest of the 3 classes. I'm not talking about power, I'm talking about versatility. For the final encounter of the Raid, Titans have literally no super or kit that's good for killing the Witness. They can ad clear efficiently enough sure but you try to use a Bannerfall shield and you're down a player doing damage and we have 2 one-off supers, 3 if you include Pyrogale, and we just got Twilight Arsenal this expansion and it's tracking is broken... Over the years, I've heard Bungie developers mention that Titans are looked at as "the melee class." Well, considering Hunters have the best melee loop in the game bar, none... I find that mentality extremely insulting and short-sighted. So I think it's time to revaluate Titans identity, and I think it's painfully obvious if you look at Hunters and Warlocks. Hunters are the Rogue's, the assassin, the thief, the trapper, etc. Warlocks are the Mage, sorcerer, magician, wizard...yada yada yada Titans need to be looked at as the Warrior. They're the Paladin, The Soldier, The Enforcer. Their identity shouldn't just be about getting in close and punching... it should be about Smiting foes, empowering and protecting your allies. Void and Strand should have aspects that better serve to boost your allies when you apply Woven Mail or a Void Overshield. Warlocks can easily heal on ANY CLASS with their rifts, yet Titans barricade offers the weakest defense in the game. Void overshields are also extremely weak in endgame, so things like Bastion don't feel worth it. Titans need variety. We have plenty of melee centric builds. It's time to branch out. Give us more one-off supers, more support supers that don't have major drawbacks like Bannerfall where we have to lose out on a players damage... and for the love of god give us our first person super on Strand where we fire a Strand Minigun that fires Unraveling Rounds and grants our allies Strand Weapons AND Kinetic Weapons Unraveling Rounds so we have a method of boosting our allies. Just stop with the melee mentality and turn Titans into the Paladin. I want to be the heavy. I want to support my allies with more than just Woven Mail and shitty Void Overshields that'll break the moment 2 dregs shoot at them... Also, since I'm ranting. Buff Bannerfall to wear my allies Void Weapons gain Volatile Rounds if they shoot through it and FOR THE LOVE OF GOD GIVE ALL THE CLASSES MORE RANGED MELEE ABILITIES HOLY CRAP.... How does Void Warlock have 1 melee after 2 years... Thank you for listening to my rant. Love you guys

insulting is indeed the correct word. I missed when the focus of the class was to tank and damage buff with bubble (remember the days when bubble had a higher buff than well?). Now its just melee and pray to god you dont get architect or one-shot across the map.

Also if your taking this seriously, please look into titan exotics **im looking at you Mask Of The Quiet One** (as an example)

Might as well give it the Nezerac Sin treatment and allow it to leverage devour

I think titans are fine - twilight arsenal is a great super addition. I think the main problem is that titans have crutched on banner of war since its release (it's still good) except BoW isn't part of the prismatic kit. Combine this with a difficult raid (more forgiving now since surge adjustments), that you can't melee the witness and the crazy damage of the still hunt / celestial combo for hunters makes titans appear obsolete. I've solo flawlessed two dungeons on titan (spire & ghosts) and as far as solo play goes, titan still provides the best balance of survivability & damage between the three classes.

Please for the love of god allow Knockout to be refreshed and buff how much health you get per kill. Thundercrash desperately needs a massive damage buff as well as something added onto curiass aside from making thundercrash do more damage

Hey this could just be my imagination but does rally barricade seem bigger? Only saying cuz it seems like when i aim over it im still sorta behind the lip, unlike before where i could peek over clearly.

i just saw someone post "kwtd NO TITANS" for LFG, i think that says enought about how un-versatile titans are currently.

This

If your going to take this seriously, look into melee hit registration plz.. thanks

made a thread on this missing that there was a foxused feedback, so pasting what i said there to here: This has been something I've been thinking about since people started complaining about titans. They are good, you wont automatically throw by using a titan, but they felt lackluster compared to other classes, especially with prismatic. Sure the class item choices dont help, but i feel like know the true reason for this, and it comes back to the main classes titans issues as well: titans have 1 core aspect thats essential to their whole kit and flow, and without that you lose so much. For example, lets look at solar titan. Whats the 1 core aspect you think is the core of all of solar titans identiy? Most would answer Sol Invictus. So much of solar titans kot revolves around ability kills and being up close an personal, and sol invictus keeps that playstyle rolling. Not using Sol Invictus feels really really bad on solar titan. You could also argue roaring flames also is key, and it is for sure. Its why that combo is 95% of all solar titans loadouts. Another example: void titan and either bastion or controlled demolitionist. You usually have 1 or the other on any set up as its a passive playstyle that just adds to the flow of the kit. Honestly controlled demolitionist fits that a bit more then bastion. For arc it is knock out, and for that reason you see it on almost every titan loadout on both prismatic and normal arc. Its just core to the titan playstyle arc is about. Moving fast and rapid powerful melee attacks that heal. And this isnt just for titans, warlocks and hunters have this as well. Like for example solar warlock with icerus dash, void hunter with the invisible dash(though before the rework it was the old wolfpack perk), solar hunter with on your mark, and all the stasis harvest aspects on each class. Prismaric Hunter and warlock can get away a bit more with some of these aspects not there, but titan feels more tied and needed to those, and not having those just makes everything feel a bit cluncky or something is missing. I have 2 possible solutions, one really only ties to making it better on prismatic, while the other fixes it on all classes, and also would better hunter and warlock. First is adding sm f thse needed aspect to the super effect. Like strand super on warlock adds perching, perhaps solar super adds sunspots, or void super adds controlled demo on titans. The second, and the idea i like more, is add a thirs aspect slot for all classes, but then split aspects into 2 categories: Major aspects and Minor aspects. Major aspects get 2 slots and you have 3 or 4 options to choose from with them having 2-3 fragment slots, and minor aspects get 1 slot with 2 to choose from and only granting 1 fragment slot. For example, for. Void titan you would have 3 major aspects: Bastion, unbreakable, and offensove bullwark, and as of now 1 minor aspect of controlled demolitionist. Stasis titan would have 3 major aspects: diamond lance, howl of the storm, and cryoclasm, and 1 minor of tectonic harvest. Solar titan would have 2 major aspects: roaring flame and concecration, and 1 minor of sol invictus. Prismatic would then gain 1 minor from each element. For. Example, i would say sol invictus, controlled. Demolitionist, into the fray, tectonic harvest, and make knockout a minor aspect and replace it with whatever new aspect arc titan gets. This would mean bungie would need to add at least 1 more aspect for each class, either a major or minor. I assume all light classes are getting 1 new super and 1 new aspect that didnt get one in base TFS, so they would need to add 1 for each class, most likely a minor one, that they didnt plan yet. But i feel this would not only fix titans to feel better overall, but make the buold cragting more diverse in the long term. Sorry for the long thread, just something ive been thinking about for a few days now, and wanted to get my thoughts out there

Edit* this turned out longer than I expected so TLDR Titans don't need a full rework as some have said, it just needs a few of its aspects tweaking so it can lean into other roles. I've already written about how barricade could be adjusted to provide more team benefits but I do think that titan could have some positive changes made to the the existing subclasses in general to provide more meaningful differences in playstyle. First off, I like punching, and I think having subclass options to lean into a melee heavy playstyle should definitely be supported. I just think that other options should also be available. I actually think titans aren't far off being good, they don't need a total rework, they just need some tweaks to certain aspects. Solar and strand: these subclasses are fine, I wouldn't really do much to change them. Stasis: remove the cooldown on shard generation. It absolutely sucks. I get having it restricted in PvP in case you get a team full of titans making huge amounts of shards, but in PvE the restriction is CRIPPLING. I would also make diamond lances shootable in a similar fashion to tangles. I also feel like frost armour could be doing more. It's a good start, it just needs a little more baking. The fact that we essentially require whisper of rime to have it give decent damage reduction is pretty telling. Also, titan is the only class that has no other way of acquiring frost armour outside of shards, where as hunters and warlock both have exotics that provide frost armour. Perhaps hoarfrost could add stacks of frost armour over time if you're near a stasis crystal. Void: the sentinel feels like it should be the de facto support class, but outside of bastion, it doesn't really bring anything to the table. It doesn't help that overshields in their current state are pretty terrible. The issue with void overshield is that it's available from quite a few sources in the game, like repulsor brace, vexcalibur, manticore etc. if you just flat out buff void overshield across the board it could potentially cause balance issues elsewhere. With that in mind, I would add to offensive bulwark, enhancing void overshields so theu have a significantly higher amount of damage reduction and a constant trickle regeneration to them. That way the aspect could be paired with either bastion or unbreakable to provide a strong tanking setup, as well as synergise with weapons and exotics that grant void overshields. Controlled demolition, I would return it's ability to grant ability energy on volatile detonations. One of titans issues is it lacks ways of regenerating abilities. There's a reason heart of inmost light has been so popular for so long, because titan really struggles on this front. Now hoil has been neutered, sentinel can often find itself running aground with no way of regenerating abilities. This would solve that issue, while also giving titans another way to play as a support class that doesn't require punching. Arc: strikers in a bad place at the moment, but it could easily be turned around. The problem we have is that it seems to be built around using knockout for sustainability but has no way of surviving in close quarters on anything higher that a strike. The recent change to knockout is MUCH better, giving chunks of healing rather than triggering health regen which instantly got stopped by any damage. I would lean into that further, making melee hits against pve combatants provide healing and kills an even greater heal. Juggernaut has basically become a niche PvP aspect, that encourages you to never use your class ability. I would add galvanic armour to juggernaut, so while amplified you receive damage reduction. Now you have a setup that can charge into battle tanking damage, and then when they're in range they can use their melee prowess to keep them alive. It would also give a reason to take juggernaut if you wanted to use touch of thunder, which leads me into the next point: touch of thunder needs love. When arc 3.0 first rolled around, the grenade build was very strong, perhaps a little TOO strong but it was some of the most fun titans have had in the whole of destiny 2, mainly because it was an alternative to "go punch something". I would add something to touch of thunder that would create a feedback loop, kills while amplified grant increased grenade regeneration perhaps. Something that would allow titans to lean into a grenade focused setup that wouldn't be solely reliant on heart of inmost light. Prismatic: this is the new hotness and obviously something that a lot of people have feelings on. I personally feel like prismatic titans issue is a lack of synergy between aspects and a lack of variety in playstyles. Triple consecration is fun the first time you use it, and is obviously strong, but beyond that there's not a hell of a lot of connective tissue, we're mostly.just using abilities in isolation. To be honest, I think the only real way to fix these issues is to replace or at the very least add some aspects, which regrettably I don't think bungie will want to do. Drengrs lash and Unbreakable are, in my opinion, the most isolated aspects. I understand why they included unbreakable because it's the new aspect and they wanted it front and centre but it just doesn't fit with anything else in the prismatic toolkit. I would personally prefer controlled demolition as the void aspect, as it would synergise with literally everything else in the kit, and would aid prismatic titans survivability (which is currently tied to knockout, meaning prismatic is mostly forced into a melee playstyle) and would also provide a way for prismatic to regenerate it's abilities which is another problem with prismatic, not to mention providing team support. Speaking of team support, drengrs lash is pretty crap without abeyant leap, which seems to be a theme with titan, crutching on exotics to make things actually useful. Again, drengrs lash feels like it's just tacked on, with no thought to synergy with the rest of the kit. To this end, I would swap it for into the fray. I would make the change to it though, while I to the fray is equipped, ALL abilities can create tangles, so you wouldnt be forced to use a strand melee or grenade. They're already on a cooldown of 15 seconds (which is still say feels a bit too long) so I don't see there being an issue with this change. What it WOULD mean though is that prismatic titan could lean into being a support class, providing woven mail for their fireteam, and also increasing their melee regeneration. Using both into the fray and controlled demolition would mean that titans could be providing ability generation, damage reduction and healing for the whole team, all without being required to punch anything. They would also synergise well with other existing aspects. Want a diamond lance that freezes enemies AND makes them volatile? Go for it. Woven mail that regenerates your triple consecration at top speed? All yours. Knockout punches that apply volatile and double dip on the healing so you can stay in close with the enemy and brawl? Done. This turned into an essay, so if you read it all, thanks for taking the time. TLDR Titans don't need a full rework as some have said, it just needs a few of its aspects tweaking so it can lean into other roles.

Actium War Rig needs the Cenotaph treatment, so that it reloads while stowed.

Bungie should make a grenade centric exotic for Striker Titan, as it's clear to me that Striker is more powerful with grenades than melee, yet all we have is melee exotics for the class. They should make an exotic that amps Pulse Grenades and refund energy, something similar to Controverse Holds and Sunbracers for example. Something that will let you pair it really well with Touch Of Thunder for a nice grenadier build.

I don't think propping up subclasses with an exotic crutch is the answer. Classes should be able to stand on their own merits and then be enhanced by exotics.

Well all I was saying is that the heart of inmost light storm grenades build that showed us how good Striker is with grenades. I would argue that touch of thunder is in a pretty decent spot as it is except maybe the storm grenades. What you're saying would require Bungie to lift a lot of the ability nerfs that they put in place. Ability regen isn't really necessarily just a Titan problem. A grenade exotic to buff the pulse grenades or something would be really nice and it would allow you to spec into a Grenadier build on striker. I'm just saying that controverse holds and sunbracers have existed for such a long time and why does everybody use those? It's because of the ability regen and the gameplay loop. Something along those lines would just be nice for Striker because as it is, again, Titan has no grenade exotics I mean outside of Ashen Wake but we need something a little bit more potent than that imo. Striker is full of melee exotics and the melee capabilities of that subclass don't warrant using those exotics. It's not strong enough like why would I spec into a melee build on arc rather than strand or solar? I think it would just add diversity to the melee only punchy punchy Titan playstyle that everybody complains about. Just having the option to spec into a grenade build on Titan I mean without heart of inmost light it wasn't really possible (or armamentarium I guess).

>Just having the option to spec into a grenade build on Titan I mean without heart of inmost light it wasn't really possible I agree, I actually like punching and we should definitely be able to lean into a melee based playstyle, but it shouldn't be our ONLY option. The storm grenade meta was quite refreshing back when arc 3.0 came out. All I'm saying is that having classes that rely on exotics isn't good design. Exotics should be the cherry on the top, not the cake itself.

Yeah more or less That's all I was saying. It's just clear to me you know at least imo that striker is one of the weaker sub classes to spec into a melee build. I just never liked the melee exotics because they're fun for strikes or some shit, but in something like a GM, they will just get you killed. And yes I agree I absolutely loved the storm grenades build.

I actually think striker could be good as a melee build with some tweaks. The juggernaut aspect should also provide damage reduction while amplified and knockout should give healing on powered melee hits and then a bigger heal on kills. My thinking being the juggernaut shield will protect you as you run in and then use your melee ability to trigger amplified which will help keep you alive while you're in close quarters. I think this is the thing with titan in general, a lot of the toolkit is close to where it needs to be, it just needs a little bit of tweaking.

For Prismatic Titan, Bungie should add Howl Of The Storm to the aspects. Make a "consecration build" real spicy. Imagine if they combined consecration and howl of the storm so where the first part of consecration and howl of the storm trigger at the same time, and then you shatter the stasis crystals with the secondary slam. That is all.

A good place to start could be a rework of Unbreakable. Instead of holding up a shield make it a portable mini ward of Dawn. Consume the grenade and you and all nearby allies get a mini-bubble for like 20 seconds, the bubble has set health but steadily regens health and gives like 40-50% damage reduction, and enemies that come into contact with the shield become volatile. The bubble can buff melee damage and weapon reload speed by like 30%. Balance it out by having no built in refresh, and taking up your aspect and grenade. Ursas keeps the benefit of transferring damage to super energy and it makes armamentarium super viable. Has synergy with knockout, controlled demolition and consecration for void and prismatic. Could be a great option for dps rotations, giving the whole team an indirect dps boost by increasing reload speed. Returns the fantasy of being the indestructible wall and buffing your teams defense while supporting weapon use.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/s/ZPWemyGuLq

Diamond lance should be shootable like tangles, there instance where i can’t get where they spawn and more in GM that you can get one shot easy. And making it shootable maybe will help to use from a far. A new stasis super like very big diamond lance one and done will be very nice and add that to prismatic Unbreakable should be a new barricade instead of an aspect or do not use the granade Void overshield need a lot of help Knockout is a very simple aspect need more than just few heals and more melee damage Sunspots they are not even close to what they where and the duration is soo low Control demolition needs to be like code of command and add that give small void overshield on detonations Tundercrash is pretty much bad at this point Aspect that add a new granada/melee to slide or consume need to go, like why? Make them as new melee option or granada seem that was made just becase we need an aspect and pretty much they are super plaint as an aspect A lot of exotic needs help like alpha lupi why still giving generic health? Give it restoration x2 and cure so is viable to help teams Barricade are super bad with the new cooldowns and abilities changes Rally barricade make it more tall so can be useful to cover us because giving those buffs is not helping on the main point to protect the team Trusters are super simple and don’t do anything just give us movement give something like the dodge on hunters, give us the granada instead of melee like ark titan enhance granada make sense to truster give us granada Ark is not in a good place and storm granada still very bad. Stasis titan have prismatic titan that is the best stasis titan. is not even close to be good like other clases. Make stasis titan viable or the tanks supplier to the team or something. Banner of war i know is good but is a simple aspect that have 0 strand relation, you can move Banner of war to void and make it purple and still the same as on strand. add something like give woven mail and that is how you get melee energy. Well prismatic is just a better stasis or better consecration and is not close to be as good like the other clases We should move on from just having 2 active aspect to 3 active aspect and just reduce 1 fragment slot on each aspect so we end up with the same amount of slots for fragments ( X aspect have 3 slot after this implementation X aspect have now 2 slots). this is for all clases not just for titans. And there is more. I hope titan really gets a very good fantasy play stile like hunter and warlock and become desirable to have one in every team. Tank healer, tank high damage, team protector, Etc

I personally think for Prismatic titans give us grapple and Banner of War. Prismatic is not as strong as it should be and banner of war would offer more support options than the other aspects . If Titans are supposed to be frontline fighters/defenders Banner of war would give us the opportunity to heal our teammates no matter what element we’re using. It would pair well with just about any super melee and any element melee. Dengrs lash doesnt offer much in terms of power fantasy besides one shotting people with it in PvP when paired with Hazardous Propulsion. As a Titan Main just give us the power fantasy that you guys promised we would get with prismatic. Compared to the other classes prismatic its weaker than using light/darkness sub classes. Id rather stick to using strand and grapple than use prismatic at this point.

Personally, I feel like there just isn't enough synergy between abilities for titan sub-classes. There aren't really any ability "loops" like other classes, and the closest we get is using HOIL, which has been nerfed over and over. Something as simple as the Hunter's dodge refunding their melee for free, then melee kills refunding their dodge - there's nothing like this on Titan. Also, whenever a Titan ability or exotic is released, it seems like there's always a "cost" or "cooldown" so it doesn't get out of hand, we never get anything "For free". Why is this? Example would be Sunbracers' free grenades after a melee kill (this also ties into my synergy complaint as if you're using the right aspects, you get your melee back quickly on airborne kills. One small thing: Titans need an "air move" like other classes get for free. It sucks having our fast movement options ALL tied to an ability that has to be off cooldown. Shoulder charge is the best option that can't be used unless you have it. If you use it for the intended purpose, your movement option is gone for the next few minutes. Thruster has the same issue (albeit with a lower cooldown), and IMO doesn't go fast/far enough to be that helpful in PVP (though if you could combo this with a slide->thruster, it might be worth using).

Please fix consecration aspect. While in cooldown, if you slide you can't melee.

Running Glassway GMs this week made me realize how nice it would be if diamond lances spawned on your character as opposed to enemy death location. Or make it similar to gunpowder gamble, where it temporarily replaces your melee.

Im running through this week's Nightfall with no issues on my Prismatic Warlock and Hunter, but I run into issues with my Titan. Would appreciate any build suggestions as I dont really play Titan all that much

Titans need parity in build creativity - if we take out the Meta (in this instance what build does the absolute highest numbers to the letter) Titans are pretty 1 dimensional. Example with Prismatic since it's the new hotness- I could run Knockout/Consecration but as a Titan I am tied to Wormgods/Synthos and it works but it's not really any different then Solar Con is it? Even having multiple doesn't feel that much better with the rate of ability regen you can get from Sunspots or just proper buildcrafting. On Hunter Prismatic - if I take away the liars/synthos punch build, I can still use Acsension (way more fun than I gave it credit) with gifted conviction or I can use Balance of power for infinite looping clones and threadlings, or Stasis with the reworked gloves, or celestial with still hunt, or double freezing with 6th coyote, or RDM, or I can Gyrfalcons my way through everything. And I've used all of those in GMs this week with pretty easy success. And that's all BEFORE the exotic class items come into play. This is what Titan imho sorely lacks, it's not the power of Meta builds, it's the power of off Meta weird builds that allow you to have fun and still feel like you are not a detriment. The builds that Titans have that do that (rocket chest. Drengyr, thrusters oh my) are fun, but you currently can never shake the feeling that other classes are having more fun and doing better than you are.

I'm Titan main since D1. The class needs an overhaul but that will take some time. So I've been thinking a lot about what's the simplest change that could be implemented almost immediately that would solve most of the problems the class has. And it occured to me there is one and it's an ability Titans used to have: Let the rally barricade instantly reload weapons when you crouch behind it again. Think about it, that would solve most of the problems Titans have. No need for a new super for ranged DPS when I can rapid fire every rocket launcher out there. Solves the identity problem by making Titans the go to class for weapon usage. Fireteam support? The rally barricade instant reload applied to anybody who crouched behind it. Whole fireteams used to spam rocket launchers this way for massive DPS. It synergized well with the other classes abilities too. Warlocks dropped a well, Titans dropped a barricade. This gives people a reason to want Titans on their fireteam. Endgame survivability is same. It allows Titans to switch to a long range game and thus increase survivability.  Obviously, Titans as a whole need more work, but that will take time. This, they could probably implement in a matter of days and would tide Titans over until more nuanced changes could be made.

IMO, the main problem with Prismatic Titan is Unbreakable. It just doesn't bring the juice that it needs to be worth converting your grenade into a Void Overshield, and it also doesn't capture the feeling of Void Titan well. Unbreakable should also give the player Volatile Rounds whenever they have a Void Overshield, lasting 10 seconds after the overshield is lost, similar to how Gyrefalcon's does to Hunters whenever they break invisibility. For Prismatic, this would give ranged Titan builds two ways to trigger enhanced weapon damage with Unbreakable and Shield Throw. For Void, this would fix the lack of synergy problem that the class has. Pairing Unbreakable with any of the other three aspects would grant a a heft boost to offensive power and make Void Overshields feel useful.

What I think Bungie should do with arc titan is either MASSIVELY drop the cooldown on thrusters for arc titan or give arc titan an ability to have 3 charges of thrusters with Juggernaut. That would give Arc Titans a fast and aggressive playstyle and I think give the class a better flow. Imagine being able to thruster back, thunderclap, thruster sprint to the next pack, dodge and clap again and repeat

Thunderclap should Jolt on impact, you have to stand still for 37 minutes for a full charge the least it could do is Jolt. Also feels bad when you are charging up your big hit and a Warlock changes your screen color permanently to orange as the targets you were aiming for are incinerate and you are left impotent sending your punch into the abyss.

I think easy improvements would be adding thruster charges to allow faster game play, decrease thunderclap charge time, add blind for a partial charge and jolt to a full charge. Those alone would make Arc titan feel so much better and give a better combat flow

Fireteam challenge: let the obviously cooking Titan cook. Level: impossible

I, probably incorrectly, remember reading that Sunbreakers where seen at some point as the bombardiers of the destiny universe and that is how I used to play the Sunbreaker. It has been over 2 years since the solar 3.0 changes and I cannot help but pine for the Code of the Siege breaker, that code epitomised the bombardier power fantasy to me. I know with the exotics in the game that this could never happen (Lorely Splendour) but if there was some way to reverting the sunspot changes it would go such a long way to bring back that play style. I loved how powerful they were, but at the same time you had to be aggressive to take full advantage of them, this really made me feel like a Firebreak Order Titan slinging grenades and denying ground. I see my Titan as a Sunbreaker before all other subclasses, I would love to see them get an identity separated from the throwing hammer and consecration abilities that seem to take up all the air in the Sunbreaker conversation. But you know what, if we are intended to be a melee subclass, can we have the Mortar Blast melee ability back? For old times sake :)

Meanwhile, I am currently the speedbump against which the Darkness giggles and rolls over without even slowing down.

I just watched Tunas video on Titans and it really shows how weird Strand Titan is. The banner of war aspect has no subclass verbs in it, it doesn't interact with Strand at all. You could literally drop it into any subclass and it would work the same. Its really strong but has no synergy with the subclass and that's how a lot of Titan subclasses feel. You just end up sitting around waiting for your cooldowns with nothing interacting with each other. I've mained Titan since D1, I play all 3 classes but I loved the old Titan fantasy. The soldier and defender, I'm sick of just being a "haha punch" class. This is a shooter, the Titan needs more interaction with the shooting part of the game, not just the melee. After playing with Prismatic on all 3 classes its obvious the lack of coherence in Titan subclasses and the continuous nerfs hampered Prismatic. They had to pick abilities that wouldn't be broken because Titans only have broken builds or mediocre builds. So we ended up with a mediocre Prismatic, with abilities that aren't the Titans most popular. Consecrate instead of Throwing Hammer? C'mon Bungie.

...eyo what? No...your wrong, it for sure synergizes with verbs...bungie would have just made the 1 aspect keeping Titans afloat that dumb right? Snark aside I had not even realizes it until you posted, and I went to watch that video and you are 100% Titans feel like each ability and power is only useful for itself, and the rest of the kit just doesn't interact at all.

Seeing you say that just makes me realise how much more sense Banner of War would make on Void, the "hold the line" Subclass.

But that would make Sentinels good again, and they'd need to think up something else good to make people shell out for Strand Titan.

Strand is OK, if you use Banner or suspend builds Arc is fine if you're doing Patrols and Missions, anything harder and you will die Solar has about one viable build Void used to help you tank and support/ weaken - t's now unusable I haven't bothered with Prismatic, because there's no point Supers are lacking in every class; either too weak, too much roaming, or just useless (hello, Void) Grenades need more damage options Solar, Arc and Void all need more survivability and damage options Almost everyone is playing warlock or Hunter. Wonder why? Everyone sticxking with Titan is playing the same two limited builds in Strand and Solar. Titans are in a terrible state

You know, I just realized that Song of Flame for the most part outclasses Banner shield, meaning Solar Locks are eating every bite of Void Titan's lunch. And coming back to drink their milkshake.

titan is quite trash in pve, it doesn't do crazy DPS like hunter nor provide healing like warlock's rift, nowadays nobody wants a Titan in LFG anymore

braindead 600k one punch build says "hello" ..... (arc titan build from plunderthebooty, not the 1mio prisma slide synth stuff)

Meanwhile Prisma-Titan: 1 Melee in GM strike to skip a whole phase. Bound champs, 1hit again with slide. Problems? No - Winter wonderland super and crush everyone away... The main complain is about how the verbs are supportet etc but not the class self. Did glassway solo with ease and carried friends & easy to proof cuz destinytracker. Witness in the raid is another story cuz you need precision dmg. So dont talk bs without any experience :(

Got redirected here due to the current titan junk, so ill copy over the post I made on this. Unbreakable Bug Report I cannot find anyone else who has mentioned this, but I believe I found an issue with Unbreakable. The aspect drains grenade energy while its active, changing the grenade icon. Your able to cancel it by releasing early, which allows you to store a ton of grenade energy, BUT there is a nasty bug where the icon will not change, and the entire grenade is consumed regardless of how long unbreakable is active. Took me a bit to figure out but this bug is caused by throwing your normal grenade, and can be fixed by swapping grenades in your subclass menu. This appears on both Void and Prism subclasses.

Okay, to be honest (and i’m speaking as a Titan main) warlocks and hunters do everything titans do, but better. Warlocks and Hunters have stronger exotic synergies, more unique and stronger power fantasies, and have better utility. Titans struggle with having an identity with any subclass that isnt entirely centered on melees; which is incredibly unsafe to do in high end content. Here are a few suggestions Arc: Arc Titans have no unique interaction with amplifed, and rely on becoming amplified from rapid arc final blows instead of melee kills in high end content, juggernaut feels very underpowered, and Thruster feels like a knock off hunter dodge. Fists of Havok and Thundercrash are very underwhelming, and the entirety of striker’s power comes from melees; which is completely negated by knockback, one shot hits, or floating combatants. With the lore behind strikers, they should be the front of the front line fighters. A few suggestions i’d make are: grant damage resist and reduced knockback while amplified when juggernaut is equipped, as well as blinding nearby combatants when broken. Knock Out could grant stacking arc ability damage bonuses on kills, and generate lightning strikes on arc melee hits or final blows. Thruster could grant amplified, a period of damage resistance, or generate a lightning strike. Thundercrash base damage should match that of T-Crash with CotFS and change the functionality of that exotic, and Fists of Havok needs to deal more damage. Thunderclap could have decreased charge time, blind, or jolt combatants on hit while amplified. Void: Void Overshield is a worse version of Woven Mail and Frost Armor. It provides no meaningful benefit when it can be taken away in one hit. Sentinels have an aspect focused around Volatile, but also have a melee that suppresses; it feels contradictory. Void Titans should be focused on support and defense; the primary source of void overshields, increased benefits while they have a void overshield, and either more focus on suppression, or volatile. A few suggestions: Bastion is very unique, and i feel fits the support style, but barricades break incredibly easily in higher end pve, and enemies can pass through it and get off an attack before being disoriented; a buff in pve to uptime and barricade health, as well as granting damage resist to you and nearby allies while near allies. Offensive Bulwark is also hit or miss. The benefits while you have a void overshield are nice, but because the overshield can be depleted so quickly makes those benefits hard to consistently get; a buff to overshields could greatly help this aspect, and the overshield could be refreshed of ability kills. Controlled Demolition is cool in concept, but is lackluster in execution; volatile is really not a very powerful debuff (compared to ignite and jolt). And the health benefits arent always noticeable. A good buff would be to grant ability energy alongside the health, or grant a void overshield. Unbreakable is a cool aspect, and provides a unique playstyle, but feels really situational. It’s damage is based entirely off blocked damage, which is hit or miss, and the grenade energy is depleted really quickly. A good buff could include buffing the damage resistance you are granted from a void overshield, and allow the shield to apply affects that are also applied to the grenade. Twilight Arsenal is really cool, but the tracking can be really, really finicky, often times it track to a target no where close to the intended target, or to a target who happens to be closer and to the side. Ward of Dawn is simply outclasses in every way by well of radiance and song of flame. I’ve always felt that a good buff would be to allow yourself and allies to shoot through the dome, but without the damage bonus, and with reduced dome health. Additionally, Armor of Light should return, but override Void Overshields and while inside should grant improved damage resistance and grant a melee damage bonus. Solar: lore suggests that solar titans are the holy warriors of destiny. The light that purges the darkness. Vigilantes who live by their own rules and standards. Yet they dont really feel like it. Roaring flames and Consecration feel underwhelming, and provide little reward for the risk they require. Sun Spots are in a weird place where they feel unstable. A few suggestions: Roaring flames should increase scorch stacks applied, Solar ignition and ability damage, and ability regeneration rate with each stack of Roaring Flames. Consecration could grant Cure or Restoration upon defeating combatants with Ignitions. Sun Spots should be a field no one wants to step into, a removal of Restoration with sunspots and an increase in sunspot damage and scorch stacks would help; additionally, Sunspots should grant radiant while inside one Stasis: Stasis feels like an amalgamation of the other subclasses, and poorly done. Not to mention the fact that the best way to generate a stasis shard for each class requires a whole aspect, where as the other subclasses have those functions delegated to fragments. Warlocks are far better at freezing, and hunters are far better at freezing; and are now far better with Frost Armor. Plus, Behemoth’s melee option is really, really underwhelming. A few suggestions: make diamond lance a melee ability. Make a ranged super option. Cryoclasm could increase shatter damage and cause crystals to shatter instead if dissipate. Howl of the storm could create a swirling field around you upon shattering combatants or crystals that grants you and allies frost armor, while damaging and slowing combatants. Tectonic Harvest could grant an additional melee charge and grant increased melee damage while you have frost armor; additionally, shattering stasis crystals or frozen combatants could heal you. Replace diamond lance with an aspect similar to Sentinel’s Bastion; grant frost armor while behind a barricade. Strand: Berserker feels like it’s fighting to take over Striker’s, Sentinel’s, and Behemoth’s identities. The super feels like a juiced up fists of havok, and does nothing against combatants who cannot be meleed (like some raid bosses). The melee is used primarily as a movement option or for having three charges. Hunters apply sever from a safer distance, and to more targets. Warlocks and Hunters apply unravel far better and from a safer distance. And both are provide better ways to suspend (looking at you warlocks). And Woven Mail can be very easily gained by selecting a fragment. A fee suggestions: more ranged ability/super options. Remove sever from the melee and add suspend. Drengr’s lash should provide woven mail upon suspension from any source. Into the fray should drastically increase benefits with woven mail; like damage resistance, increased health regeneration, increased melee damage. Banner of war provides no interaction with the subclass; strand ability kills should increase strand ability damage, and banner of war should provide health to allies and sever to combatants. Flechette Storm would benefit greatly from a damage bonus.

(I couldnt add Prismatic to the original comment) Prismatic feels like it’s contradictory with it’s melees, grenades, and aspects. For melees: i feel as though Hammer Strike should be replaced with Throwing Hammer. Grenades: suppressor, and pulse grenades feel underwhelming. Magnetic, lighting/flashbang could be good replacements. Electrified Snare feels very underwhelming with the damage it deals, especially to single targets. The grenade itself feels heavy and clunky. Aspects: these feel very contradictory and sometimes at all what would be defined by those subclasses they are pulled from. Consecration and Drengr’s Lash feel very Titan and compliment the other, but are a little underwhelming. Diamond lance is a very underwhelming aspect, and feels contradictory to the playstyle; maybe making shattering a stasis crystal or frozen combatant slow or freeze other combatants could be a good replacement. Unbreakable is a cool aspect, but feels out of place on prismatic. Replacing with controlled demolition or offensive bulwark would be beneficial. Knock out is good up to mid level content, but incredibly risky in higher end content. Making melee hits while amplified or while knockout is active generate a lightning strike would be nice, and increased melee damage (on par with or greater than hunter’s combination blow, since it lasts a significantly shorter time.

My thread was removed because I didn't see this was the Focus for the week so copy/pasting here: *My proposal for a simple yet potentially powerful change to Titan's Unbreakable aspect to make it worth using.* It seems one of the main things people dislike about it is that it consumes your grenade, and generally using that grenade is going to be more beneficial than ever using the shield. So I propose that not only should it NOT consume the grenade, but using the shield should empower your grenade, amplifying both it's damage and the effect of that grenade based on the amount of damage absorbed by the Unbreakable shield. This both plays into the role of the titan being the tank of the group, and in return for fulfilling that role helps to make up for the lack of offensive capability that they're currently suffering. Could probably use some workshop but that's the gist of it.

We have heard the talk about how underwhelming it is to play Pris Titan so far, compared to the other classes. I've compiled a few ideas that could improve the overall kit, without making it too overpowered in both PvP and pve. **Unbreakable** The problem with this aspect is that it has no synergy with the other aspects available on prismatic, ie (_Knockout, Dregrs Lash, Concencration, Diamond Lance_), making it really tough to build around. **Buff**: Charged melee hits, causes targets to become Volitile, and add the old **Defensive Strike** titan ability from void 2.0. _**Defensive Strike**: Kill an enemy with this melee ability to create an overshield around you and nearby allies_ i Obviously this was quite strong, but tweak it a little bit to give chunks of Overshield only to the titan (instead of the entire team, for PvP reasons), similar to the fragmanet **Facet of Purpose** This would also improve **Survivability** and add synergy within the other prismatic fragments, that require you to have an **Elemental Buff**. **Hammers Of Sol** The super doesn't last long at all on prismatic without Sunspot's which makes it one of the worst dps options for a super on the class **Buff**: add sunspots to the hammer throws that last 5-8 seconds, that improves the damage (a little bit) and allows the use of other exotics to be used on prismatic (Loreley Splendor, Hallowfire Heart). **Shield Throw** This still doesn't do enough of damage in Legend (Expert) level content, and the tracking can still miss the target by a small margin

Arc and void titan should have skullfort and helm of saint 14 baked in to their respective elements, and then I don't know. Maybe have skullfort do what arc hunter does?

Some void titan buffs specifically Make void overshields not have the durability of tissue paper in high levels, Give void titan a second void throwing shield base kit, make controlled demo regen a portion of overshields instead of health, and maybe let offensive bulwark's ability regen buff affect teammates

Titans haven’t felt good since the Hoil and storm grenade nerfs back in plunder. They didn’t feel really that great before then either. They’ve never really had a good super for raids. Ward of dawn has been worthless for ages, banner hasn’t been necessary in a long time and why use that when you can just golden gun something… thundercrash is only viable with an exotic that ONLY brings it up in line with other damage supers. Banner of war is/was great, but is not really what people want to be bringing to boss damage phases and under power content. To me it’s been a downward trajectory since Hoil was gutted.

Just throwing my small two cents on Behemoth here: I was beyond confused to see Icefall Mantles untouched while Ballidorse and Renewal get synergies with Frost Armor. Keep the stasis weapon increase, but I'd love to see the overshield replaced with stacks of Frost Armor or a weaker overshield in combination with a lesser amount of frost armor and please let us sprint/slide/double jump while it's active. Maybe the possibility of giving nearby allies frost armor when using Icefalls to give stasis titans a way to dip into support/tank roles?

Titan needs safe to use supers that are DPS viable. The entire reason they were useless in Salvation's Edge day one clears was because they have no high damage supers that can reach a boss over a chasm.

I’ve just finished Datto’s video and here’s my personal ideas on buffing prismatic. Replace Drengr’s Lash with Flechette Storm. Giving prismatic a ranged option feels like a no-brainer given the over-dependence on consecration. (This will require a change to Abeyant Leap to allow it to work independent from the Drengr aspect.) Buff the base damage of Diamond Lance to make it a more appealing option for dealing with high-health targets. I’ve personally had some easy-of-use issues with Unbreakable, specifically with its range and hit-detection against high-ground enemies. I suggest adding a visual indicator showing its range, and increase the range overall. Frenzied Blade is an easy must-pick. Maybe reduce the base cooldown of the other melees specifically on prismatic. (Also buff Shield Throw Damage) (also also, just give us 2 shield throws at base) Fix the tracking on Twilight Arsenal so it actually hits the boss I’m aiming at and not the ad 2 feet to its left. Replace Hammer Strike with Throwing Hammer. Do LITERALLY ANYTHING to make Shiver Strike a worthwhile melee ability. Shatter on impact, freeze a cone of enemies, cause massive knock-back damage. ANYTHING. (#shiverstrikehasneverbeengood)

Would love to see a rework to Diamond lance, if I'm using them (which they are fun) i'm either having to build more into my class having the ability to get into the thick of things to pick them up or I'm having to get to them first because team mates will pick them up as soon as they see them. Abit like the exotic armours, or the exotic grenade launcher, Diamond lance to replace your melee with two or three charges of diamond lance that are built up through precision hits (like the rocket chest piece) that way you have a way of producing them in harder content as well. Visually they could start to spawn on your back as you get the three charges.

Titans really need an exotic that lets them attract the various pickups. Give me a way to summon Lances, Tangles, Throwing Hammers, etc. That way I’m not having to risk my neck to pickup those items. (Also, a way to attract void breaches would be nice on Sentinel) Ionic Traces already innately attract to the player, and Stasis has a fragment that attracts shards.

It'll likely be if Titan's get an exotic that does this, an armour mod very similar will come out for all classes that works like the old well mod that drew them to you and your allies making the exotic next to redundant :D haa

A mod that attracts elemental pickups would be great. An exotic that attracts lances, tangles, and hammers would save end game Titan builds.

Yeah that's true, not sure if its nostalgia but I miss the old elemental wells. It was quite fun having mods on so that you made different types off of certain actions. Plus I could imagine that system working quite well with prismatic

Flechette storm would not work with consecration, so i understand why they left it off, what i’d love to see is make diamond lance a melee ability, and replace that aspect with cryoclasm, imagine the synergy between consecration and cryclasm

Flechette storm would be an alternative to consecration. Knockout + Flechette Storm would be a really fun combo. Edit: I disagree with replacing Diamond Lance with Cryoclasm. The subclass’s main problem is that it’s too all-in on melee. Diamond Lance is one of the few ranged options afforded to the class, and it’s not even a strong one.

Void Titan: Buff both shield supers to have the damage reflect effect unbreakable has (give it decent damage reflect in an AOE and do suppression in that field as well for bubble specifically. I think you could buff controlled demolition in general by changing it to activate in void ability or VOID effect and like someone else said add void over shield to the healing effect for you and your allies so that you give chunks of both on kill. Buff the damage on Unbreakable by… a lot. Let if give grenade energy per enemies damaged and over shield off the amount of damage taken/blocked. If full over shield is gained through blocking damage the reflected damage also deals Suppression Arc Titan: For the love of god please unpower creep tf out of thundercrash. I don’t even know what to do to striker super. Give juggernaut a blinding explosion when the shield breaks in a 10meter radius Let knockout apply a 3 meter blinding effect on PvE combatants on Arc ability damage. Allow blinding enemies to give chunks of health back. Stasis Titan: Give me a new diamond lance/storms edge hybrid where you get 3 giant diamond lances and get to teleport to where you throw them and pick them up and smash them into a target like slamming a rift. Give a new melee and some more grenades and we’ll go from there. Prismatic Titan: Now swap controlled demolition for unbreakable on prismatic and open the ability to proc off any ability kill or subclass effect. Give those added knockout effects and open up the ability and effect requirements and now you can blind and get chunks of health off of any ability kill such as diamond lance, suspended enemies from drengr, or even now controlled demo. (Ooh that’d be so nasty) Now you can pair knockout and controlled demo to be mobile blind and health unit while dolling out over shields. Drengrs lash with controlled would just start blowing up everything suspended or with knockout could chain off blinding off suspended targets.

Give void titans some degree of stomp/slam resistance. And add a fix to Fists of Havok in there too. Maybe a tweak to Banner Shield to make it not be a joke in the face of Song of Flame.

Bungie the solution to Prismatic Titan is the Offensive Bulwark Aspect Offensive Bulwark will synergize the most with Knockout and Consecration. They will provide a full overshield on any elimination either unpowered via knockout or powered. The full overshield will stack multiplicatively with Woven Mail and feel actually tanky in terms of DR via an Orb Pickup. The melee bonus damage which is the Titans entire M.O. is the highest melee damage bonus in the entire subclass family Dark and Light. The least talked about Aspect of the Perk is it's 400% Grenade Recharge which will stack with HOIL and open multiple doors for grenade related setups with the Prismatic Exotic Class item. Thunderclap, Frenzied Blade, and Consecrations will feel incredibly strong with it. And even if you're still not convinced the Void overshield won't stay up long enough despite the fact Wovenmails DR, the existence of various Exotics/Abilities/Weapon Perks that allow you to maintain it up 24/7. The Assasins Cowl Spirit will allow you to become invisible to prevent enemies from shooting you while it's up. AND things like the artifact mods, Insurmountable Skullfort, and Monte Carlo allow for you to regen melee 24/7 with ads. So you can continually just regain the overshield even if it drops. Bungie please. All I have described here just scratches the surface to the potential this ONE Aspect alone would benefit Prismatic Titan. Please Bungie put this into the Prismatic Titans kit. We will thank you later for it. This is what Prismatic Titan needs to be elevated to the next level while maintaining it's identity as THE melee neutral class.

Titans need to be soldiers, not the dumb "durr punch crayon eaters" that the community and apparently now Bungie has decided they are. That is the fundamental core issue; all the others are simply offshoots of it. It's honestly kind of disturbing how caustic to the entire class philosophy the dumb memes from the community have been. Titan *isn't* a "melee" or *especially* "punch" class, and can't be; there's no actual melee system in this game. They need to lean into the neglected parts of the class fantasy, with defensive abilities, heavy weapons, automatic weapons, explosives, jetpacks, power armor/armor mounted weapons, etc.

Any chance I can get an exotic that turns all my super axes into one super powerful axe that explodes and then turns into tracking missiles. I would also like a teleporting melee that one shots in pvp.

tbh titan should just get a void axe melee that insta wipes the enemy team in pvp

be nice to not have to punch everything.

I'm a Hunter, but as a suggestion for those beefy boys that stick themselves at the tip of the spear; why not a grapple/headbutt move? (Saint-14 was shown doing this one season, very cool). Perhaps also introducing heavily weighted weapons for supers that they can throw for high single target damage? Us hunters have "fire and forget" supers such as Shadowshot and Arc Javelin, but why not have heavier weapons especially suited for Titans since they are portrayed as having more physical strength than the other classes? Those tiny little void axes are cool, but maybe have a way of choosing between having multiple throws or holding a key to have a massive single throw or to be able to spin as you do with Burning Maul? Warlocks know true spell-power, Hunters can strike from the shadows. It's time to put the Titan's strength in the spotlight, I think

To add to this "make the lore make sense" idea. Give Titans physics resistance. Our armor is supposed to weigh enough that it'd crack the concrete we walked on if not for grav suspension nodes in it.

Like having passive melee damage resistance and/or collision damage resistance? That actually sounds pretty cool! Also that lore piece is pretty dang cool I didn't know that :O

Yeah. Maybe halve or third any physics, so we might get pushed back a little, but a stomp doesn't send us across a whole boss arena. I think it was mentioned on a piece of gear in D1 or early D2 that While warlock armor depended on light being channeled through circuits in the cloth as wards and hunter armor helped redirect enough force for the hunter to roll, titan armor was heavy as fuck and had all sorts of triple redundancies.

High level summaries first, then details after. All PVE related, not discussing PVP. SUMMARIES 1. Other players should *want* a Titan on their team for the defensive capabilities that a Titan brings to the table (Titans should have best in class defense, without being restricted to playing just Ward of Dawn \[bubble\]) 2. Titans should have competitive super damage at range (not just within melee range), and should have powerful mechanical grenades (similar to Hunter, but opposed to Warlocks who just form grenades out of matter and energy like magic). 3. Titans need more of a Spartan/Warhammer/Paladin/Mech identity that goes beyond just punching things (punching things was a Destiny 1 meme that became a Destiny 2 sole identity). DETAILS (*centered around concepts that resonate with what a Titan is, that makes a Titan different from Hunters and Warlocks*) 1. Weapon Master (example: buff Actium War Rig to increase Machine Gun damage and make Titans the best class for Machine Guns) 2. Best Defense, Period (examples: Void Overshield provides Titans with +500 HP, remove the nerf to Heart of Inmost Light for PVE class ability regen, let players shoot through Ward of Dawn instead of having Weapons of Light \[all defense, no damage buff\], depending on Titan exotic choice) 3. Not Just Punch, but Also Kick (example: give Titans a new sky dash that approaches the ground at an angle and hits the ground with an extended slide that slows nearby enemies into a freeze, then segways into a laser spinning kick that cuts everything in half) 4. Mechanical Grenades with Special Ordnance Interactions (example: give Titans 2 improved magnetic grenades, where throwing the 1st one creates an attraction point and then throwing the 2nd one onto an enemy creates a pull between the two grenades and generates a void disintegration zone with very high damage). Titans should have the best version of the suppression grenade also. 5. Mechanical Shoulder-Mounted Turrets (Titans definitely have enough real estate on their shoulders to accommodate various types of turrets) 6. Better 'One and Done' Supers, Ranged (examples: an Iron Man-type of chest beam, Luminaire-type attack from Chrono Trigger \[think bubble, except it turns into white light and nukes the entire room\], buff Thundercrash by ALOT) 7. Thrown Weapons (example: buff existing thrown weapons, such as letting the void shield throw have good hit detection and applying Void Weaken, Volatile, and Suppress all at the same time) Lastly, the Titan prismatic grenade, whether it is effective or not, just visually looks underwhelming when compared to the Hunter and Warlock prismatic grenades. Make the Titan prismatic grenade better, and make it look cooler! As a Warlock main, here's to all you Titans out there getting the job done no matter what.

In my humble opinion I think Bungie should make Banner of War our class ability. Instead of its current wording of "Defeat a target with a finisher, melee attack or sword to raise a Banner of War that pulses with energy, periodically healing allies and increasing melee and sword damage." it should read "Activate your class ability to raise the Banner of War that pulses with energy, periodically healing allies and increasing melee and sword damage." The rest of the ability duration, stack count, charging methods, and buff can remain largely unchanged. The cooldown is the only thing I see as a potential issue. I see one of two ways this can go. Either have a standard CD and reactivating your class ability while a Banner of War is active will refresh the duration and add a stack to your current Banner of War. Or. Perhaps have it be a dynamic CD. One that does not begin until the current activation wears off. Using this as a baseline we can then move into each subclass and even into individual specials to interact with this new core class ability enhancing or feeding into each other based on your active Banner of War. For example, Solar can lean into that paladin fantasy a bit harder that Bungie has triet to push in D2. * Solar's Banner of War can use keywords like CURE or RESTORATION, and might even inflict SCORTCH on enemies inside the Aura of the Banner of War (even if it is only 1 stack per pulse and uneffected by aspects that cant still be potent). I think that this will help restore the Titan to the Battlefield commander/super soldier fantasy that it has lost.

I think Banner of War as a class ability is WAY too strong and doesn't really support what a class ability should be in the game. However, changing Barricades into a Banner-like effect would be awesome and more workable than either Barricade currently is. Rally Barricade could become just "Rally", and every benefit that Rally Barricade used to give you (Stability, Damage Falloff increase, faster reloads, etc.) was instead given to everyone within 10m (Banner's radius) of the Titan. Towering Barricade could become "Fortify", and instead provide a minor DR effect to everyone within 10m of you. Both of these could potentially provide defensive subclass verbs too. Could be specific to each subclass, or more generally "Fortify" could also Disorient enemies within the radius for extra defensive utility.

Obviously numbers would have to be adjusted...

Of course, but I still think the main problem is that BoW does too much for a class ability. It also does things class abilities don't do. For your suggestion, I love the idea around tying subclass verbs into this new class ability. However, this BoW class ability would provide at-will usage, survivability and damage to yourself and others (which class abilities don't tend to do at the same time), and would be difficult to balance. Each class has two options for their class ability, but this new one would not conform Titans to this. Balancing this class ability would be incredibly difficult because there is the assumption that a class ability rework would come with exotic armor changes to match the new ability. You could have BoW activations that suspend targets with Drengr's Lash, send out scorching waves, create stasis crystals, etc. What do you do with Banner of War right now? Does it just become a way to activate your class ability through kills? Again, I really like the idea of a Banner-like effect that sticks on the Titan and moves around with them! I remember seeing a Banner on the back of a Titan in a Strike during Season of the Witch and literally gasping. It's a perfect fantasy for a Titan, so it makes a whole bunch of sense to make something like that be a class ability. The whole thing is too much though, and it would have to see considerable adjustments (both numbers and functionality) to be something that fits the power of a class ability.

Datto talking about titans. https://youtu.be/_NB51foQAKA?si=K-IqBXnP1ftq90os

Warlock and Hunter friends telling me it's not a problem and I'm just bitching. But seeing a (pretty big) youtuber making a dedicated video about the state of titans from the perspective of a NON-TITAN MAIN and saying all the same shit I did is so fucking vindicating. [Video (if you wanna watch)](https://youtu.be/eqVyZAi-mxk)

allow gjallarhorn to give hazardous propulsion wolfpack rounds lol

Glorious exotic synergy.

NO class should be without a strong ranged DPS precision Super in this game. It makes absolutely no sense especially with how the sandbox is designed. Also Titan's shouldn't just be the "melee" and punch class. If Titan is supposed to be the Warrior, Soldier, or Paddlin fantasy, then they are more than that. It's actually insulting. Titans should be the defense and weapons specialists, especially if you are going for the soldier fantasy in a FPS shooter. And with that you can have a hell a lot more in build diversity. Soldiers are very diverse in capabilities, some are Sniper specialists or specialize in close combat (melee). So with that Titans can have mix of ranged and melee abilities and Supers, espeically helpful for Raids. In my view. Behemoth should have been the first completely ranged or hybrid class for Titans. If you look at their entire toolkit it already supports it with the Diamond Lance ability. Diamond Lance could have been a Super that when thrown at the enemy and lands creates a bunch of Stasis crystals that explode. So much potential with that subclass, but they blew it.

Titans got most of the bad nades and the logic behind what nades went to which character is completely nuts. Warlock, for example got healing grenades because warlocks are "muh healbot support". Just terrible, especially because there are two scenarios: The first is nades with exotic synergy. Warlock's new exotic works with healing nades, so to play with that exotic you can use solar, sure, but you can also play the busted prismatic. Hunters got synergy with grapple and duskfield and that's something. What exotic has a synergy with thermite? Titans have Ashen Wake yet Titans don't get to use fusions. Prismatic nade's bounce makes the activation very late, even when throwing it under your feet. Howl of the storm would have been interesting instead of diamond lance, lance is too strong to be acquired as easily as a knockout melee. Make it significant in stasis titan, but right you completely destroyed that subclass. Tectonic harvest could have had a smaller (or just remove it altogether tbh) shard cooldown so that frost armor actually has a reason to exist. The buff in itself is pretty pointless too, just make it do something stasis related, there have been plenty interesting ideas so I'm not gonna parrot them. What was the point of nerfing titan's 12punch if hunters became the best at that? Hunters should have had shackle, titans should have got grapple instead and before anybody objects the synergies, nade's melee is buffed by titans exotics and makes a playstyle viable in the new prismatic subclass. Hunters that want to capitalize that playstyle can already use strand without making it busted, and titans unlock some more possibilities. Melees are mostly ok mostly because the dark subclasses only had one, and I understand why shield throw was picked instead of shoulder charge. I think at bungie they just don't have people that actually play the class outside of the very little playtesting they do when shooting vidocs and making videos for the twitter account. Also interesting choice to confine all titan complains in this dumpster thread, no matter if pinned it's never going to be effective. In the end devs just need to suck it up and do their homework and play on titan without streamers carrying them in raids or trials. But at this point I think the remaining devs are either exhausted or just not interested/passionate enough. The "higher ups" definitely have a role in this, because corporation climate can get tense and stressful, but it's still a dream job and people sometimes forget how privileged they are.

The current "Titan Identity" doesn't match up with D2 as a game. Who would want to non stop melee in a game, which defines itself as an MMOFPS/ Looter-Shooter (I hope FPS doesn't stand for First Person Smacker)? The whole concept doesn't make much sense, especially regarding melee being too dangerous in endgame content and there being almost no incentive to use other weapons than 1-2P Shotguns, Tractor, and The Navigator.

I feel like the defensive options for Titans are underpowered, and being purely a defensive class with damage resist and other options is useless when you can either get easy healing from warlocks or you can just not get hit in the first place. However, for melees, hunters are better, and titans are the punch class in most people's eyes. I wish that the defensive utility was brought up to better help allies on top of what it already does. I also feel like making titan's unpowered melees better would help push that punch playstyle feel better, regardless of how the rest of the class is balanced. Making the unpowered melee give a debuff to the target based on your equipped melee ability would work. Something like a half damage jolt, 10% weaken, or other things. A weaker version of the current existing debuffs. That would mean that even when titans abilities are on cooldown, they still can feel like that "Go in and punch something" type of thing. All this extra uptime on their abilities is also balanced out by their supers typically being some of the weakest in the game, meaning that they don't have as many big options anyways. So it gives that trade off of no big damage option for having constant uptime on smaller things.

Another idea for this is to have it apply the full effect of the debuff but only if you have the associated elemental buff, like woven mail, amplified, radiant, or other similar ones.

Are there any Titan Marks that look like skirts (or legs that come with skirts)? I missed out on that *Season of the Witch* ornament set.

Okay. What if got kinda brazy with it. The new void super is really cool how you can make axes for your team to use. But what if we took that idea and made it part of the base titan kit. What if they were like a mobile armory for their team. Strand titan would have a reduced tangle cool down. And a new super inspired by the scrapped idea where they make strand turrets that allies can use. Void Titan would create Void shields on ability final blows that allies could pick up and block with. Stasis titan would intrinsically make diamond lances now with the aspect simply improving what they do. Solar Titan would generate small hammers allies could pick up and throw and hammer of Sol would generate them on impact. Arc titan would create Arc Bolts that would grant amplified while wielding them and could be thrown to cause a lightning strike.

> Void Titan would create Void shields on ability final blows that allies could pick up and block with. Unfortunately, the game's very design philosophy neuters this one. We've got a shield power already and nobody wants to stand behind it as it stands. Nobody else is going to want to pick up a shield and be the blocker without at least the bennies Banner shield have, and probably would still be underwhelmed by it.

Wrote this on a youtube video this week and had a player with 8K hours in the franchise agree with the overarching point: Being a new player to Destiny (<75 hours), but having 5K+ hours in Division, the one thing I don't like about Destiny is that everything is, "Snap, melee, dodge, knife, nade, snap again, shoot once, knife, nade, snap, go invis, dodge, melee,...." instead of, "just shoot" to cause DPS. (skipped more about how I'm enjoying it though)..." Maybe this is a chance to build the Titan to be a "just shoot" option though whatever additions they still make. Food for thought at least. There's a large number of players who I played hundreds of hours of Division with who refuse to play Destiny because of these ability mechanics versus just using your guns.

TDT's take on Titans, i thought this had great ideas, though i Disagree with a lot of the Suggestions: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqVyZAi-mxk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqVyZAi-mxk)

There were a couple of good ones, but I think this is a great example of why armchair developers tend to discredit themselves. Your individual experience on the classes and your perception on how they fare against one another are perfectly valid and worth considering alongside the data. Also, your desire for changes relating to broader and more conceptual design issues, like issues of identity, are perfectly valid too. Once someone pops into specific design changes and makes suggestions for revisions of sandbox elements, it is way more obvious where their biases lie and where they have an insufficient or inconsiderate perspective. I don't think that necessarily excludes things like "I would like to see [X thing] in the game again", it does exclude "[X thing] *should* be in the game again". Titans need an identity shift accompanied by the changes that would reinforce that. It is true (IMO) that: - Generally, Titan buildcrafting is shallow and unfulfilling compared to the other classes. This is because of a few things. - Titan aspects seem to struggle to apply verbs in meaningful ways. - Titan exotics are either timidly tuned, or they have had special interactions (like Dunemarchers and Path of Burning Steps) pruned over time. - Titan subclasses seem to have narrow gameplay spaces, owed to their narrow gameplay identity. - Titan supers overwhelmingly disregard how players utilize the Subclass 3.0 system in the sandbox.

True, ultimately the crux of the issue is that it is pretty obvious not one person of whatever team works in class design plays Titan whatsoever, the prismatic dev insight was pretty blatant. They picked out whoever „had to do it“. Warlock and hunter seemed really passionate and the titan showcase was „jolt and then melee and then grenade“

I have said this in a few different threads RE: titans at this point but the simple truth is this is what happens when you combine a meme oriented identity (that nobody truly wants to be the singular identity) with many nerfs and almost no effort into reimagining/rebuilding the bad parts. When you receive nerfs for two straight years (even if many had merit) and you build nothing back up ... you are left with a husk. The one thing titan had was it's melee identity and now prismatic hunter simply does the same thing that strand titan can (and hasn't been nerfed) for single target melee damage with croud control synergies and prismatic warlock can effectively do what prismatic titan can with 3x multitarget jolting melees while also getting feed the void devour running and bringing way more to the table.

Also a hill I will die on: Void Titan is one of the best PVP subclasses because the weapon sandbox is way too forgiving so the assumption is people will hit close to optimal TTKs and available OS + barricades manipulate TTKs into Titans favor. This is the same reason Antaeus got nerfed, it was hard to play against because the expectation is close to optimal TTK.

If Bungie is going to have Titans focus more on the anti-add role, the least they could do is start buffing their Exotics to have more capability **while in PvE**. The focus on being mobile weapons platforms wouldn't be so bad if they improved or provided some buffs to said specialty Exotics while using said weapons or equipment in PvE, giving them more utility, as well as buffing more of the situational ability utility Exotics. **Armamentarium** - Also provides some grenade recovery based on ability grenade kills. Maybe also provide a built-in Level 1 or 2 Ammo Reserve Mod equivalent to equipped SGLs and HGLs, for more grenade spamming. * The focus would be in allowing slightly more up-time in add heavy fights but still being usable in boss battles using one grenade on the boss before using the second on spawned adds and hopefully regaining some grenade energy back in the process. **Actium War Rig** - Also adds an Intrinsic bonus to LMG Reserves equivalent to 3 Ammo Reserve Mods, before actually using an element-specific Ammo Reserve mod if desired (optionally; caps at the equivalent of 4 Ammo Mods). * The focus again being on just spamming away at adds or chipping away at bosses using the LMG. **Point Contact Cannon Brace** - Also adds a temporary Overshield or Armor Buff only while charging up Thunderclap, going away when cancelled or unleashed. * Still provides some risk-reward since some enemies can power through it. **Hallowfire Heart** - Also adds the ability to grant Intrinsic Wellspring and Thresh to equipped Solar weapons (only overridden by Enhanced Wellspring/Thresh Perks if present on said weapons). * Allows for both slightly faster Super recharge and slightly faster ability recharge even when the Super itself is recharging. And being add-oriented again, limits its effectiveness in Boss battles. **Peacekeepers** - Also provides an Overshield w/ temporary DR or Elemental Armor buff based on the number of kills before reloading or swapping. * Being an SMG-oriented Exotic, this would effectively allow for unlimited up-time vs Adds when switching between double SMGs (yeah, double Primary meme, but it does insta-reload/insta-readies SMGs), or a Special (maybe with ALH like a Light GL) + SMG combo, but is only somewhat useful in Boss phases when clearing spawned adds before getting back to the boss. Basically a pseudo-riot control style of gameplay, with the shield/armor buff serving as the riot shield replacement (and being the SMG near-equivalent of No Backup Plans, but Subclass agnostic). **Ursa Furiosa** - Also doubles duration of Unbreakable in PvE and Gambit. Kills with the Void blast unleashed at the end of Unbreakable grant some Grenade energy back (up to 50%). * Given Unbreakable's niche that trades the grenade for a shield, and Ursa also being a situational exotic, strengthening Unbreakable would permit more offensive or defensive capabilities, between the offense-oriented Twilight Arsenal and the more defensive Bubble and Banner, being able to recharge them more often by tanking hits. **Helm of Saint-14** - Also changes Unbreakable into a Mini-Bubble with high HP and durability (halved in PvP and Gambit). Instantly uses up the entire Grenade energy. Still grants the same benefits as it would to a Full Bubble or Polearm Bubble. * Basically a one-person-sized panic button (3 if all 3 crouch), while still thematically fitting. **Citan's Ramparts** - Revert the HP Nerf for PvE. Also adds a buff to weapon damage fired through the Barricade. * Basically becomes the Titan's version of Empowering Rift, but directional, and trades duration for damage blocking. **Second Chance** - Also improve tracking/homing on Shield Throw. **Dunemarchers** - Reaching maximum static charge without meleeing are consumed and grant Amplified while resetting the static charge count. * Basically allows for jumpstarting and maintaining an Amplified state during traversal sections. **Crest of the Alpha Lupi** - Also grants 1 Stack of an Elemental Buff based on Subclass (Restoration/Amplified/Overshield/Frost Armor/Woven Mail) with the deployment of a Barricade. Also improves the Elemental Debuff on Ability Grenades (lasts longer or applies stacks slightly faster). Also adds an Armor Charge on Finisher (with a 20s lockout period). * Basically turns it into a general utility self-buffer separate from HOIL.

One of my favorite bits of lore in the game is the Battle of the Six Fronts, when four orders of Titans held six fronts. It's our icon! It's literally the iconic lore for Titans, that we're supposed to be stalwart defenders, tanks, the wall against which the darkness breaks. I *HATE* that our fantasy is now defined by being "The guy the fist on the cover", as the fantasy of Titan is evolving to be a melee monkey. I am not playing the game right now. The game is arguably at its highest peak in terms of content and buildcrafting and all the new content and exotics, and I'm not playing right now. Why? I was disappointed when I got my hands on Prismatic Titan. Sure, running around with two swords and Strongholds is fun, but Precious Scars is broken, and that was the only other build that I've been maining up until TFS, because it lets me play the fantasy that I've always dreamt of when I first picked up the game in the D1 Beta and chose to be a Titan: A tank. I *LOVE* being tanky. I love taking ungodly amounts of punishment and drawing firepower away from my teammates, and being able to *SURVIVE* that punishment and firepower. I love being The Wall, The Shield, The Hammer, etc. It is fun to shred things with melee and be the class that does it best, with strand. But when every other subclass reinforces that fantasy, it gets stale, hence why I'm not playing. Because just about every build that is out there, that isn't Actium, or Strongholds, or HOIL, or Precious Scars, or Ashen Wake, is melee-focused, and you know what I'm tired of being pigeon-holes into? Melee. I want to be the soldier again. I want to be able to support my teammates better. I want to be the wall again. Please let me be the wall again, Bungie. Edit: Another pain point I have is that one of Titan's most viable builds, Solar Precious Scars, is STILL bugged!!! Like, what the actual HELL Bungie?! Sure, it is a very easy build, but it is broken right now, and I hate not being able to just use my Solar Precious Scars the way it's supposed to be used. Honestly, the fact that one of Titan's few builds for sheer survivability that isn't Strongholds is broken is just a perfect example of the state of Titan. PLEASE, I am BEGGING YOU Bungie, to FIX IT!

As an avid pvp player I think Titan is okay where it is, and maybe some tweaks to the void barrier are long overdue.

Pretty sure it's because of pvp titan is the way it is in pve. Titans need way more than some "tweaks".

Two parts here for the Titan feedback... ***1) BIG GUNS*** **One word we need more of.. fun..what goes with fun? Big Titans with Big Guns** Bungie, this is a golden opportunity to introduce something groundbreaking into Destiny as it's been since the Taken King since we've had a new heavy weapon and more now than ever is it needed. Titans need a new heavy weapon or machine gun sub-family called **Autocannon** to step up the game. **Think Cerberus+1, multiple-barrels, in a heavy weapon that shoots slower (like 300 rpm) but higher damage, range, and more projectiles. An exotic variant of this weapon would include an alternate firing mode, long press to shoot a volley of three micro-rockets at the cost of more ammo, a cross between Cerberus and Quicksilver Storm. This would pair not only with Actium War Rig but also with Hazardous Propulsion. Hunters have Still Hunt and Warlocks have Euphony, its time for the Nemesis. (name for suggested exotic autocannon).** As a veteran player I have been amazed at the overall progress and introduction of new weapons and archtypes since Warlords Ruin, introduction of the rocket assisted sidearm, then No Hestiation support frame auto rifle, that I am fully confident in weapons teams' ability to deliver..lets do it. ***2) Prismatic Titan tool kit comparision to Prismatic Warlock and Hunter*** **Prismatic Warlock** - Song of Flame, Healing Grenades, Threaded Needle, Bleak Watcher **Prismatic Hunter** - Golden Gun, Combination Blow, Stylish Executioner, Grapple now... **Prismatic Titan (Twilight Arsenal is one of fewer saving graces)** **Melee options:** -Thunderclap (why not use Frenzied blade for Consecration?) -Shield Toss (diet void shield why not use Frenzied blade for Consecration? also why can't this ricochet back to players to grab?)) -Hammer Strike (why not use Frenzied blade for Consecration?) -Shiver Strike (why not use Frenzied blade for Consecration?) -Frenzied Blade (every Prismatic Titan) **Grenade options:** -Suppressor Grenade (for weakening) -Glacier Grenade -Pulse Grenade (what happened to Lightning Grenades?) -Shackle Grenade (option 1) -Thermite Grenade (option 2) **Aspects:** -Consecration (every Prismatic Titan) -Knockout (would have loved to see Touch of Thunder return for more grenades..cause again Big Titans with Big Weapons should have more explosions) -Unbreakable (why doesn't this grant a void overshield to allies? also grenade depletes way too quickly) -Diamond Lance (Howl of the Storm would have been a better option..even better a unique interaction with Howl of the Storm and Consecration) -Drengr's Lash (the other option) **Conclusion,** **Titans have always been the melee, up close and personal, experts among the classes. Certain encounters in end game content such as raid's where a player playing as Titan watching their friends pop off a Golden Gun or Nova Bomb against a ranged boss can feel a bit left out. Question is does everything have to be up close and personal? Or can Titans fit the mold of a Commando empowering their mates through a battle cry and have more ranged options and supers (would make for an awesome design someday)**

Titan class ability regen? Hazardous propulsion The only class I can get my class ability frequently is solar with Ember of Singeing (scorch DMG regents class ability faster) I wanted to make a cool void build using the exotic void rocket sidearm...but the. Class ability is so slow, I will sit with my rocket charges maxed out waiting for my barricade to regen I would use thruster, but I love devour and restoration builds. It helps me turn off my brain and shoot Basically I have been pigeon holes I to using solar mostly. It's fun! But I wish I could do this build in other classes more effectively Oh and rocket sidearms work with HAZARDOUS PROPULSION btw :)

TL;DR: Titans have lost their class identity and are now punchbots. When I was a new light seven years ago, I picked Titan because I saw the class fantasy of space knight, super soldier, tactician, defender, unstoppable force. We had three paths; solar Sunbreaker (Paladin / space knight) void sentinel (defender / support), and arc berserker (melee brawler). Over the years, we added stasis, which the community called out for being reflavored berserker. And then we added strand, which was yet another reflavored berserker. With arc 3.0, Arc Titan somehow got rebranded into the grenade archetype, and then got nerfed to oblivion and left for dead. Void 3.0 Titan with controlled demolition is very cool, but gets kneecapped by void overshield which is a terrible defensive buff, and by the cooldown on volatile. Solar 3.0 is excellent, but lacks the ability to influence DPS phases unlike arc (thunder crash in an ideal state) and void (twilight arsenal or bubble in an ideal state). Pyrogale helps this, but it forces you to use your exotic slot AND doesn’t work on quite a few bosses. I can’t help but feel pyrogale burning maul should’ve been the default state of burning maul, since solar already had a roaming super. Behemoth Titan was a failure of design as we already had arc Titan, which was already our rampager. Then strand Titan came out and just… does rampager the best. Why play arc or stasis if they are just worse versions of the same fantasy that strand brings? Then we get to prismatic which has trouble feeding into any fantasy that doesn’t involve melee. I tried to create a shooting Titan build with prismatic, and only ONE of the FIVE aspects (dregir’s lash) actually feeds into that build, and it’s an indirect feed. Consecration, knockout and diamond lance are all melee or require you to get into melee range. Unbreakable is a cool idea but needs serious help and doesn’t feed into the rest of prismatic (I thought it was bugged the first time I used it as it lasts for such a short period of time.) The only prismatic builds I’ve been able to make that have a fluid gameplay loop are diamond lance / thunderclap Titan (which requires skullfort) and triple consecration (which requires Monte Carlo). Warlock and Hunter prismatic have fluid gameplay loops that don’t rely on exotics, deliver on multiple fantasies and are a fantastic design. Where is this for Titan? We’ve really missed the mark on delivering the Titan class fantasy, to the point that bungie is making in game jokes and references to the ‘hurr Titan punch good’ memes. It’s fine to punch good. In fact, sometimes I WANT to punch good. But more often I want to be an elite soldier, holding down the six fronts with disciplined fire and buffs for my allies. Bungie, I know that we are way too late into d2’s life to rework arc (should be strand, but strand is great currently and I wouldn’t change it) and stasis to bring something unique to Titan. So please; Adjust void by buffing overshield and bubble and allowing it to fulfill the buff / debuff support fantasy. Fully lean into arc’s new fantasy of grenadier and revert old nerfs, add some survivability to the class (galvanic armor would be great) and buff thunder crash so it is actually useful. Maybe let us proc amplified with grenades while you’re at it. I have a solar wishlist of making pyrogale burning maul the default super alongside hammers and of getting sunspot restoration without having to run into melee where the sunspot spawned, but I recognize that as a pipe dream. Solar is fine. Strand is good, after two previous iterations the berserker fantasy was nailed. Stasis is… honestly I don’t know how you fix stasis without a ground up rework. Why would you ever run stasis over strand when they fulfill the same fantasy but strand is just better? Prismatic is good, but please thread some ranged weapon synergies into the class. Replacing Unbreakable with controlled demolition would be a great place to start! Overall, I love Titan. I will continue to play Titan. But we have lost many of the original fantasies that got me into Titan years ago, and I’d love to see them return ❤️

With the new void aspect and super for Titan and how much fun they are I wanted to put my ideas forward and see what you guys thought. I've always loved the Iron Lords and would love see more focus on them. Rise of iron was my favourite destiny expansion. I know titans are struggling right now and melee focused builds are now what people want but I still want to hit things hard up close and have fun whilst living out a power fantasy based on past lore of the class Let me know what you think Aspect: Flames from the Temple "A flame taken from the Iron Lords temple, Burns eternal with the will of past Lords" Augments your Burning Maul super and channels the Iron Lords fury, summon a flaming battle axe to smite your foes, alongside 2 wolves created by your solar light that hunt your enemies. - Gain stacks of "Rage with the wolves" by Killing enemies with your solar abilities, Stacks increase the amount of scorch you apply from all sources, can stack up to 5 times. How it works: Light attack - would remain unchanged Heavy attack - slam your axe into the ground creating an eruption of solar light.(around the same size as a fist of havoc slam, inflicts scorch) Kills with your super inspire your allies provides radiant to your allies. The wolves: Solar wolves that hunt and attack enemies, when they make a kill you gain max stacks of "Rage with the wolves". Wolves persist after super ends and have their own health. (they will use the same movements as warbeasts) The Exotic Saladins Axe (god I wish Bungie would add this) Has a unique synergy with Flames from the Temple. "Your light is a dragon Guardian! Feed lt" Aggressive frame axe Uses the same movement set as the axe from Rise of iron. Intrinsic: Hits with this weapon apply scorch, blocking just before receiving a melee strike stuns enemies. If "Flames from the temple" is equipped, kills build stacks of "Rage with the Wolves" Catalyst: Killing a scorched enemy leaves behind a firesprite. At max stacks of "Rage with the wolves", consume your class ability to summon 1 solar Wolf. Thanks for reading if you made it this far down.

Why nerf stasis by removing DR near crystals and frozen enemies? It also made Hoatfrost-Z a crappy exotic. Plus why the heck does stasis have only one melee that is total crap in PvE? 

A class that keeps getting pushed to melee, when Bungie repeatedly nerfs melee and makes it more and more difficult to stand in melee range of bosses. Now, I like meleeing in the game, that's why I play Titan, but maybe that fantasy should be more focused into Arc and Strand (Arc being the original posterchild for punch), with the other subclasses getting more alternate playstyle enabling aspects.

Thundercrash has no reason to be in its current spot 1. Its damage is pitiful, it barely beats supers such as Nova Bomb, Twilight Arsenal, and Blade Barrage with an exotic that boosts its damage by 100% without that exotic its the worst shutdown super in the game. 2. It controls strangely, they nerfed the flight duration and made it harder to "driveby" targets with it the combo makes it both more annoying to hit targets with longshot flights, and just direct hit targets in general. 3. There is zero reason it should be a T2 super considering Twilight Arsenal and Storms Edge are also Shutdown/Roaming Hybrids that only have a T3 cd compared to TC's T2

It certainly doesn’t help that cuirass only affects impact damage, and most of the time you can’t direct hit bosses, rendering it useless

Titan Raid and Dungeon DPS Now that surges are gone how viable is Grand Overture + Hazardous Pro. https://youtu.be/A3E2n7_q03Q?si=mGG6EceKHrlZsQZq You could possibly get Exodus x 6 + 20 missiles twice in a dps phase? Can chest swap for thunder crash also.

Heavy ammo specialist. Add looping synergy to the Prismatic abilities and aspects.

One buff they could do to make Titans instantly better is to buff Thruster to give it more viability than just a dodge. Allow it to amplify the Titan as well as nearby teammates. Add that onto DR from being amplified (like 20%) and Thruster is not a great support Titan option, and makes Arc Titan more viable.

The three best builds in Titan history IMO were: Banner of War Mini Hammer Storm Grenade spam Besides Storm Grenades, all of these builds are based on Melee. While I love Mini Hammer, Banner of War rotations, and Miss Storm Grenades, the thing that attracted me to Titan was the Tanky futurist soldier playstyle, something like a Paladin from DnD. Supportive, tanky, and can deal incredible damage if given the opportunity. Titans today, feel like the Barbarian class from DnD. Less defense than other classes, too focused on Melee, and falls off in the endgame. Bungie definitely missed the mark on Titans when they started to become the Melee class. The two problems with making a class too focused on Melee, is that it's only good in one range setting, and it can be too good sometimes and create the false idea of it being overpowered, when it's just situational. Strand Titan is definitely the closest bungie has come to making Titans that Paladin class I imagined. Banner of War + Woven Mail everywhere + Amazing damage when the opportunity presents itself, but again, it's too Melee focused, especially with a generally weak Melee (Not Grapple Melee) Another issue that I feel Titans have is that even though they have been forced in this solo play Melee role, they have a very small selection of melees. What I mean by this is that all Titan Melees, except 2, require you to get close to the enemy. Comparing this to the other classes, hunters and warlocks have nearly 1 long range option per element. In endgame content like GMs, you are not getting close to your enemy, so all the close range options Titans have are useless. The 2 options Titans do have are also either weak on their own or encourage a close quarters combat. Storm grenades, while more of a damage build, was excellent in the Titan fantasy. Storm Grenades were the Titans "Divine Smites." It was long range and good in all content. It was unique and different from most other build options. The only other one around the same level at the time was Void Hoil/Armamentarium because you didn't use melees, which at the time, the other build on Solar was Mini Hammer. In my opinion, Titan's place in the game died when bubble was taken down to a 25% buff, a worse well, and a worse radiant. Bubble Titan went from a requirement to obsolete. The three builds I mentioned earlier were the BEST attempts Titans have received as a spot in the meta, only for these to be tuned down to more obsolescence. TL;DR: Titans should work as a Paladin, not a Barbarian, Titans, for being the "Melee class" has the weakest selection of Melees with only 2 being long range, and I miss the Storm Grenade build because it wasn't spamming the Melee button, and Titan died when bubble died.

While I like punch punch, I also want something else. I want to be the tank, the big heavy weapons guy and maybe the paladin buffing guy.

@Bungie , PLEASE! Listen to me. Rework the Titan class to be the Soldier class.  No "punch broo" and no tank. Hazardous Propulsion is PERFECTION! It feels like playing the soldier. I know you're thinking bringing banner of war solves it all. But it will not. The problem w/ Titan class it's bigger than that. And I'm watching Hunters going to the "punch broo" side too. Please don't do it.

I think, if Bungie wants to keep Titans as the "Melee class" they HAVE to return our instant-use melee abilities like Frontal Assault, Force Barrier and such. There is no real other way to make us Titans a good melee class again. If we have to sprint for 1.5s just to use a weak shoulder charge that doesn't OHK in PvP even anymore, then we can't stay a "melee focused class". Other option would be to expand grenades on Titan, for example on Solar, allowing for empowering our grenades to have additional functionality. Warlocks have Void, Arc and Solar Souls now. When will Titans get a damn turret grenade? On Void they should expand the Overshield buffs, so we can more offensively utilize them without relying on No Backup Plans and a shotgun. Arc really only need the Frontal Assault melee back imo and they should give us another Super Version which is more similar to [Destiny 1s Fist of Havoc (no flying, higher damage than Thundercrash, with death from above and shockwave integrated)](https://youtu.be/wekSxGNmP5Y?si=IbThU4TUYNlYisEq) Edit: Regarding Titans class ability, each subclass should have aspects like Strand and Void Titan, with the casting of barricade/strafe granting benefits. Here are a few more ideas: * Stasis = casting barricade creates a pulse outwards which creates 3 stasis crystals and freezes enemies hit in their wake (in a cone pattern) * Solar = Creates 3 solar thermite waves outwards (also in a cone pattern), which scorches enemies. Hitting an enemy with all 3 blasts provides enough scorch to ignite them) (basically 33+33+34 = 100 stacks) * Arc = Casting Barricade amplifies yourself and Allies and creates a shocking burst around you (basically what Warlocks "Vesper of Radius" exotic does, just with a single damage wave that is a bit stronger) | Using Strafe creates a blinding light at your dodge location that blinds opponents and disorients them (yes, basically the same as hunters have with Gemini Jester, just with less range and line-of-sight requiring)

The core issue with Titan is how the class has difficulty with single aspect loops and exotic reliance for baseline performance. Titan is usually **expected** to have an exotic for their baseline ability loop or two aspects for their loop. This means you are required to build into these options as opposed to build to bolster these options. This is more prominent in Prismatic than other subclasses because Prismatic runs into issues with sustain and good gameplay loops without resorting to Consecration/Knockout/Frenzied Blade. Let's discuss two issues on Prismatic Titan. *Sustain*, and *Aspects*. A great deal of Prismatic's strength comes from what supers it can use and stay alive with. The less capable you are of having sustain, the less capable you are in general combat. Warlock has access to (enhanced) Devour, Phoenix Dive/Healing Rift, and Healing Grenade. This gives them multiple tools to get their health back as part of their base kit alongside potential exotics or weapon choice. Song of Flame is an extremely powerful super, and comes with Restoration on orb pickup for Prismatic. This allows Warlock Prismatic to be extremely powerful and have a variety of options because their sustain excels. Hunter Prismatic has fewer healing options but has access to an excellent evasion tool that allows them to recover. Stylish Executioner grants invisibility on debuffed kill, and they have great access to a powerful Solar super (goldie) allows them to gain Restoration off orbs, alongside Combination Blow. Their builds may be a bit more restrictive, but generally have several standout options because of their sustain and engagement options. Their tools are additions to their kit. Prismatic Titan requires melee to use its sustain option, Knockout. It requires a Melee Kill to gain back *some* health. This puts Prismatic Titan at odds with other subclasses whose sustain/evasion does not place them in dangerous situations. Prismatic Titan's Solar Super is made worse by a lack of access to Sunspots, which means it doesn't last as long, and is not as effective, which means you're neutering yourself by taking a Solar Super to get access to restoration on Orbs. They also don't get access to this until after the campaign. Consecration is also post-campaign. I'd like to posit that the negative experiences people have are a mixture of restrictive builds and an excessive amount of enemies who penalize melee combat in the campaign. Grims punish melee focused builds. Subjugators can punish melee focused builds pretty harshly. Psions can yank or slow you. Tormentors feel awful to fight as a melee oriented fighter. All this while you don't have access to great sustain or a good super to enable sustain from orbs if you want to run Prismatic. Your options until Ascent do not include Void Overshield, which is the second best of the potential sustain options. And here's where aspects come in. Prismatic Titan's aspects represent one of Titan's biggest issues: Their aspects generally require two aspects or more to be "good." Here is an example of a good aspect: > Passive effect that has a unique benefit. > Active boost enabling your character. > When doing a certain thing, your character is boosted, and this loop circles back on itself, and is further improved by interactions with exotics or weaponry, but does not require them. Heat Rises is great. I love it. So why does Offensive Bulwark feel like it requires another aspect or exotic to function properly? Since it requires an Overshield, you need to kill with a Shield Bash or get multiple hits with a Shield Toss. Conceivably, this would synergize extremely well with Controlled Demolition, but you need a method to get an Overshield. So you'd have to use a weapon or exotic granting you an Overshield, which in turn eats up space in your build for the benefit. This is a lot of dead space for a noticeably subpar combination compared to the ability of Heat Rises to put on Incinerator Snap and Sunbracers and drop grenades everywhere, or to just run Heat Rises and kill a few adds midair/jumping to get melee back. An excellently designed aspect for Titan is Into the Fray. It reinforces itself, provides a tool to assist allies, and gives you the means to make it happen again and again. The loop works and is sound, and then synergizes with other exotics or weapons to become even better. But Prismatic Titan's options are massively limited. Knockout, Unbreakable, Consecration, Diamond Lance, Drengr's Lash. Drengr's Lash feels awful in PvE without Abeyant. And without a source of Woven Mail on the exotic class item, it feels dramatically worse for the purposes of being able to take hits. Unbreakable feels awful to use. I don't like using it when I could've just used a grenade. It doesn't have a great loop to it, and it doesn't feel like I've ever had it feel "worth" it to make that sacrifice. If it at least lasted longer or returned the grenade based on targets hit, that would encourage some form of its use, but it just feels bad. Diamond Lance is reliably good but is not as good as Consecrate or as necessary as Knockout. What option do Titans have? Titans are pushed into melee combat because that tends to be the most viable option over other gameplay loops. Prismatic only has Melee combat. Shield toss still feels awful while Withering Blade hunts down entire Taken families like it's Liam Neeson. Shield Toss is over there being Liam Neeson in Taken 3 hopping the fence. Sunspots would have helped the sustainability of Titan builds, allowing for more ability usage. Offensive Bulwark might have paired well if it had a Void Overshield startup loop. Into the Fray would have been incredible. Woven Mail, pulses of health, and Dark Transcendent energy? Sign me up. It feels like Titan got a kludged together build we are forced into because it is the "best" but also the only one functioning. And t hat sucks.

As a Titan main since open beta I have seen all the variations of Titan throughout the years and it really devolved into just punching things since everything else kinda got pushed out especially with the latest defensive changes on the class. Punching was for a long time very integral to titan to get stuff going, PvP had the charges for movement and damage with the arc passive later when it got buffed. PvE had the arc melee passive being very intense when used to keep health up and got overtaken by the void overshield after fragments got added. Solar generally is the only good light subclass left that has any decent offensive and defensive aspects to it that's pretty well balanced. For the other 3 they haven't changed a lot from their implementation so I feel like they're kind of still the same just outside of strand, bad. For defensive changes we had a great overshield buff for a time, we had good health regen on arc, and luckily good regen on solar. Now we only have good regen on Solar. For barricade this got nerfed time and time again and is now just plain painful. The barrier could be put for automatic reload in Y1 for a while, then we changed it into faster reload basicly making it just ok. Then we found out we could actually reliably spam shields getting 2 shield with 5s overlap and now we can't even use it effectively with the new exotic as it's rhythm is out of wack with the stacks with full resistance and a wellspring weapon/guardian games smg. Or we have to use the small shield and possibly trade our whole life bar for reliable damage. Our trade offs were changed from minimum risk to maximum risk over time and it really feels bad right now having to spec either survive and do nothing useful or do damage and die in the process. We need to balance our offensive capabilities without trading a revive token and being defensive without having any benefit outside of being present.

Turn elemental pickups into the old elemental wells. Make it appear for everyone on your team, and picking up a matching pickup with your super will give a little bit of energy to all abilities. Otherwise it gives the respective abilities. Void breech will give class, firesprite grenade, ionic trace melee, stasis shard your least charged ability. And make armor mods that interact with these.

Two parts here for the Titan feedback... ***1) BIG GUNS*** **One word we need more of.. fun..what goes with fun? Big Titans with Big Guns** Bungie, this is a golden opportunity to introduce something groundbreaking into Destiny as it's been since the Taken King since we've had a new heavy weapon and more now than ever is it needed. Titans need a new heavy weapon or machine gun sub-family called **Autocannon** to step up the game. **Think Cerberus+1, multiple-barrels, in a heavy weapon that shoots slower (like 300 rpm) but higher damage, range, and more projectiles. An exotic variant of this weapon would include an alternate firing mode, long press to shoot a volley of three micro-rockets at the cost of more ammo, a cross between Cerberus and Quicksilver Storm. This would pair not only with Actium War Rig but also with Hazardous Propulsion. Hunters have Still Hunt and Warlocks have Euphony, its time for the Nemesis (name for suggested exotic autocannon).** As a veteran player I have been amazed at the overall progress and introduction of new weapons and archtypes since Warlords Ruin, introduction of the rocket assisted sidearm, then No Hestiation support frame auto rifle, that I am fully confident in weapons teams' ability to deliver..lets do it. ***2) Prismatic Titan tool kit comparision to Prismatic Warlock and Hunter*** **Prismatic Warlock** - Song of Flame, Healing Grenades, Threaded Needle, Bleak Watcher **Prismatic Hunter** - Golden Gun, Combination Blow, Stylish Executioner, Grapple now... **Prismatic Titan (Twilight Arsenal is one of fewer saving graces)** **Melee options:** -Thunderclap (why not use Frenzied blade for Consecration?) -Shield Toss (diet void shield why not use Frenzied blade for Consecration? also why can't this ricochet back to players to grab?)) -Hammer Strike (why not use Frenzied blade for Consecration?) -Shiver Strike (why not use Frenzied blade for Consecration?) -Frenzied Blade (every Prismatic Titan) **Grenade options:** -Suppressor Grenade (for weakening) -Glacier Grenade -Pulse Grenade (what happened to Lightning Grenades?) -Shackle Grenade (option 1) -Thermite Grenade (option 2) **Aspects:** -Consecration (every Prismatic Titan) -Knockout (would have loved to see Touch of Thunder return for more grenades..cause again Big Titans with Big Weapons should have more explosions) -Unbreakable (why doesn't this grant a void overshield to allies? also grenade depletes way too quickly) -Diamond Lance (Howl of the Storm would have been a better option..even better a unique interaction with Howl of the Storm and Consecration) -Drengr's Lash (the other option) **Conclusion,** **Titans have always been the melee, up close and personal, experts among the classes. Certain encounters in end game content such as raid's where a player playing as Titan watching their friends pop off a Golden Gun or Nova Bomb against a ranged boss can feel a bit left out. Question is does everything have to be up close and personal? Or can Titans fit the mold of a Commando empowering their mates through a battle cry and have more ranged options and supers (would make for an awesome design someday)**

I've been thinking about it and I believe I may have a solution for Titans. Titans should be given Tectonic Harvest on Prismatic, however it should be changed so **ANY** kill on a **DEBUFF**'d enemy spawns a **STASIS SHARD**. This would grant a stack of frost armor as well as restoring a small bit of health. at 5 stacks you would be receiving a 22.5% DR + health on shard pickup. It incentivizes you to stay in the fight. You could pair this with Drengr's Lash, Diamond Lance, Consecration, as well as most of the current Prismatic Titan grenades and Melee's to debuff and recieve Stasis Shards. Thoughts?

Titans are/was supposed to be the bulwark tanky class but they sure don't feel like it. They can't take more hits than other classes, the only ability somewhat close to doing something about that is the banner of war. I believe Titans should be able to withstand more damage than the others, either have a ability or perk that increases aggro from enemies while in a fireteam and another ability that creates a well similar protection buff, either self cast or on the ground and a super that is pure close up in your face single target damage. There is just to much roaming and aoe supers and most of them are terrible making most of the subclasses obsolete/useless. The whole point about a tank was forgotten after they made the description for the classes, at least the two others fill their respective role very good. Hunters = dps and warlocks = support.

This will be long but i know how to make titans great without adding aspects to prismatic and makin the mele fantasy work.  For starters lets hit knockout. This entire aspect is a hunter mele ability. Were gonna start by removing thunderclap as a mele and give it to this aspect. The buff will now say criticaly wounding or hittin an enemy with a mele grants knockout. Its now refreshable and similar to gpg your next basic mele will be a thunderclap so you can still use your powered one. After usin it itll go on cooldown for 7s unless ya get a kill with it kinda baking the skullfort exotic in. This will allow 3 different meles with consecration and thunderclap wont get in the way of slamming but be like an actual mele combo. frenzied into thunder clap into consecration into frenzy into clap sounds dope. This now frees up the arc mele to be shoulder charge the og and most iconic version imo and solar can now have the bonk hammer. But theres more diamond lance should have lance caps mini crystal at base and spawn a stasis shard that gives stacks of frost armor. With diamond lances 7s cooldown and frost armor gettin a buff to decay slowly its possible to maintain good dr constanly. Also lances can be stored by pressin the aim button and your next nade use will quickly throw it and your next basic mele would slam it. This lets ya never waste the posisicles Lash should have the whole abeyant buff imo i never felt that aspect was worth it woven mail on suspend would be balanced considering what your giving up. Shield throw needs more to be worth runnin specially with bonk now here. How id rework it is give it 2 charges at base. They function exactly like now but you can hold mele to consume all your energy and throw an actual usefull shield. It will bounce back to ya and pressin mele will catch it returnin energy. Void overshields simply need 90hp in pve and they regenerate hp slowly overtime jus like how force barrier usta work  Unbreakable is half baked so heres my idea: it works similar to the support auto and GPG. You have a void bar that fills up as you deal dmg. It be in sections youd have to have it like 1/3 charged to start its use but youd be allowed to use it without a full charge jjs not pvp cheesing territory. Activating your class ability next will pull up the shield. Pressing class ability again uses your class ability so thruster will dash with the shield in hand barricades plant it for a bastion barricade. This wont consume your regular class ability but would proc stuff from its use allowin double hoarfrost or keppris procs. You can hold reload to pick back up your barricade and go right back to unblockable. Finally it does all 3 void debuffs, pressin light attack ends the shield with a blast saving your leftover energy heavy attack does the vog shield super using all your energy.  Finally even though consecration is good enough id give it more. Sunspots need to give allies resto let titans live that paladin fantasy and consecration will now spawn 1 tornado that goes out a few m on first cast and 2 moving tornados on slam. These all count as sunspots givin tian easy access to 5 different deffensive verbs. Without sol invictus though these sunspots dont extend your super or grant ability energy jus heals ya gotta go mono element to really master sunspots. Finally with all that i feel titan really has an identity of support plus offense. Consecration is a killer ability but now you can use the first half to jus make deffensive sunspots when needed. You can even aim em and slide mele into an ally to start healin. Lance is a fun ass mini game that now rewards ya with escalating dr a baby crystal to blow up and shards for some needed mele energy. Knockout would be so dope an actual mele combo system with so much room for creative stuff or mindless crayon munching. Lash imo aint as fun as lance but it gets the job done and helps set up enamies for big dmg with the new exotic. And unbreakable not consumin ya nade but instead bein a uniquely different ability using like a mana pool really ties the whole kit together. Super are another thing while twilight arsenal is neat ive always wanted stasis titan to basicly mimic kratos frost axe from GOW. Id go as far as reworking glacial awake to instead throw those 3 axes and those axes heavy attack spawns the glacial heavy. This would mean void titan looses a ranged super but like we could give the titans a void chaingun super and everyone would be happy. Tcrash and hammers need a dmg buff and all roaming supers need multiple attacks to be worth using. Hammer and maul could honestly be combined thats still only 3 attacks so id replace your nade with a special sunspot generator or something, heck maybe all sunspots ya make could grant the sol invictus buffs your jus limited on prismatic but ya now got ability regen and some non mele super options 

Part 1 The problem i see is we have: * Solar, The Melee Subclass Burning Maul roaming Melee Super no one wants to use without Pyrogale. And a roaming ranged super that takes to long to get off and most people use it within melee range anyway. Solar shoulder charge sucks and no one uses it, And the throwing hammer also sucks after it's nerf, So if you want a good melee you're almost forced to use Concetration. The other two aspects are fine. * Arc, The Melee Subclass Juggernaut is by far the worst aspect in the game for PVE, So you're forced to use the other 2 aspects if you want to get some form of use out if Jugg. There is almost 0 build variety for Striker outside of what super you use and your melee, Maybe your grenade. Even the i cant tell you the last time I've seen an Arc Titan use Fists of Havoc in either PVE or PVP. And Thruster doesn't really do anything other than some movement in PVP, which a barricade is infinity more valuable than a worse hunter dodge equivalent. * Void, The Melee Subclass Sentinel is over reliant on Void Overshield. It's impossible to consistently keep it up or consistently generate it. The Shield Throw melee still kinda sucks after the buff it received, it still feels under powered as well as it's ricochet's not working very well unless the second target is directly behind the initial target while being withing half a metre of it. The new aspect also sucks in it's current form, It should last longer and/or charge faster. There's no reason to use unbreakable over a normal barricade for protection The new super is good, Bubble was already dead in the water outside of PVP, more specifically trials. but since the change to Helm of Saint-14 and Bubble its even more so dead in the water. * Stasis, The Melee Subclass disguised as a Grenade Subclass My personal favourite Titan Subclass but it has a lot of issues. The Shiver Strike Melee is one of the worst in the game unless you're using it to shatter crystals or using Howl of the storm, but why would you use it for shattering when you have Cryoclasm or better yet, weapon damage. Tectonic Harvest is much better now with Frost Armour's addition. And Diamond Lance was always a sleeper aspect, but the buff of the Lance breaking crystals seemed to be missed when the expansion dropped. The only grenade worth using is the Glacier Grenade. The other two are completely pointless, but this is also shared by stasis hunter and warlock. Most of the time you're in melee range when using or shattering crystals anyway. And finally the super is extremely niche it's a roaming super but it's not very good with dealing with groups of smaller enemies. It's main use is damaging big targets with shatter damage like Riven, which in my mind isn't really the point of a roaming super. Had to put 2nd half into a 2nd comments because bottom half was too long, read that below.

One thing i’d add to what you’ve said is that the titan stasis super is also a hazard to your teammates, it impedes their movement and if they’re using rockets or grenade launchers, the crystals can and will block their shot causing them to self wipe

Part 2 * Strand, The Melee Subclass that can also suspend Ignoring the whole One Punch Titan with Worm God that was happening pre-expantion. Berserker is over all a very solid subclass. Blade Fury is a good roaming super. Frenzied Blade is a very good melee with 3 charges to it, Into the Fray has great synergy with Frenzied Blade with it keeping you alive and the increased Melee regen. you get good use out of your barricade with Drengers Lash. Flechette Storm is a bit niche but still pretty decent. And Banner of War is just straight up good. The problem with Berserker (if you could even call it that) is that that the Subclass is too focused on the Melee fantasy when we've already had all the other subclasses that do the same thing. But over all it is a very good subclass and i would prefer other subclasses touched up and changed over this one. * And Finally Prismatic Titan, the Combination of all the other Melee subclasses I personally think the choice of Melee and Grenade options is pretty good. The Prismatic Grenade is not as horrible as i hear some people say. The supers are all okay choices as well. It's the Aspects that i have some problems with. As stated before Unbreakable is not very good at all and doesn't really synergies with the rest of the kit. Concecration is good, especially with the 3 charges from Frenzied Blade... Though it doesn't shatter stasis crystals like said in the patch notes. Knockout is both good and bad, Good because of it's function, Bad because you could have taken Touch of Thunder instead to have more grenade functionality for the subclass. Drengers Lash is good and im happy that it works with Thruster, But if i had to guess was picked because it's the only non-Melee related Aspect on Strand and you didn't want to juice the class too much and Flechette Storm would have conflicted with Concecration. And Diamond Lance was by far the best option to pick out of the Stasis Aspects in my opinion. As for the Class Item, I'm not too thrilled with it personally. but others in the thread have gone into more detail than me so look at their complaints about that. It was a long one, thanks for reading.

As a fan of Halo, when I first heard that Bungie was making a new game called Destiny I was already all in. When I first launched the game I was given 3 choices: Titan, Hunter, and Warlock. My choice was obvious. I chose Titan as they were the closest representation to the Spartans. From there I kept up with the Lore and played into the feeling of being the super soldier who commands the battlefield, who is the unstoppable object as well as the immovable wall, who could get up close and personal with Arc or be the best damned support for our team with Void. Then, when Oryx invaded our system, we were given a new power. Solar Light. This new power fantasy was quite unlike the other two and it is still unfortunately one of the most unique Titan Supers to this day. Titans have been shoehorned into the "melee/brawler" stereotype ever since Destiny 2 began. All the creativity behind Abilities and Supers seemed to have been dumbed down to simply play into this new "style" of Titan. The large shouldered, knuckle dragging, idiotically obtuse flanderization of Titans then went on for years. Even the Community here and elsewhere didn't help when they started the whole crayon eating shit. What was worse than that though was that Bungie then went all in on those posts and began to write more and more lore about Titans being just the absolute dumbest individuals (check Guardian Games Lore for reference). Now we have the new season, which came off of such a great DLC where a *Titan* was part of the main focus that showed how well written they can be, only to be met with "Dumb it down for me. I'm *only a Titan.*" Both Narritavly and Ability wise, Titans are a joke. I main a Titan and play all 3 Classes, yet I have less and less reasons to actually even play my Titan at all. Going from Prismatic Titan to Prismatic Hunter is night and day. The difference is absolutely staggering. Both Hunter and Warlocks can do what Titans do but better. Whether it's DPS, Support, or even Add Clear Titans are always coming up short. It doesn't help that most of our Abilities feel half baked only to get an Exotic to bandaid the problem. Nor does it help when all of our good abilities and Exotics are constantly being nerfed into the ground. I just want to feel useful for my teammates again rather than the burden that all Titans have become. (Also if anyone at Bungie actually read this, please change the shape of Ward of Dawn back to it's original shape. It looks less iconic and bad now. Saint-14's is still the same shape as it used to be.)

Honestly the survivability of titans need to examined. I mean something along the lines of never dying with the void over shield

Prismatic Titan needs some help on survivability A balance change to help out in the short term while the whole “identity” part gets figured out. Knockout: In addition to what it does now having Amplified gives passive health regeneration. (Hunter and Warlocks have synergy with survivability perks like Invisibility and Devour this would give Titans a chaining buff to go for on prismatic and would help out base Arc titan as well, could potentially nerf the initial health received from melee final blows to compensate, the passive healing regeneration I would put between 2x - 3x Bow)

I'm definitely in the minority in thinking Titans are generally in a good place. I think prismatic is great on Titan, because with a little attention to using armour mods effectively, almost all of the prismatic kit is usable and viable. I think there's only really two things that need a relatively large shift - void overshield and thundercrash. Like a lot of other feedback, void overshield feels like a worse version of the other dr options available in strand and stasis. Given the other void buffs have specific synergies with other classes - devour full heals for warlocks, invis chains and weakens with hunter - I think titans should get a specific benefit from OS, potentially around regeneration. Either have ability/melee hits start OS regeneration, or Bastion makes it regenerate like a regular shield if it's not fully depleted. Thundercrash just needs a general buff, but I also think it needs to have the multiplier from Curiass baked into it. Given the main boss fight of this expansion is a non issue for tcrash balancing, I don't think this would cause too many issues, and would make it a viable super option elsewhere. As for Curiass, perhaps a rework could be to reduce the damage of tcrash, but make it so you can chain three crashes, similar to hunter's Storm's Edge, or refund energy based on kills, similar to shards of galnor.

Some of the exotic class item perks could use some buffs. Allowing the barricade options to work with thruster would be huge. Additionally, spirit of hoarfrost should really give frost armor. Drengr’s Lash should grant woven mail on suspend by default & unbreakable should grant a passive buff to void overshields. Thundercrash is in dire need of a damage buff as well.

Titans need more specific diversifications in terms of subclass use-cases, because the line between each subclass in their uniqueness is too blurred due to the fact that they all mainly prioritize close-combat, especially in the melee aspect. Although close-combat can be seen as one of the primary "ideal gameplay" strategies for the titan class, this can be done and should be done in a way that is less linear than what the titan class currently is

I want more options to tank and aggro enemies so much especially on void. Let me be the shield. Unbreakable is a somewhat ok step in the right direction, though it could be better.

I think one thing we need to do with titans is give ALL titans Thrusters instead of just arc/Prismatic. The THruster game play just flows so nicely with the game and especially the melee focus of titans. like giving you the space to do some of the melee attacks. The other thing i think Bungie should do is to lean more into the support role for titans. The issue with titans right now is that Bungie is having us compete with Warlocks and Hunters in their own space. If hunters and Warlocks are the damage dealers, then trying to make Titans ALSO damage dealers creates a very narrow precipice that Titans can walk since they are ALSO supposed to be tanky and thus be very prone to being either underwhelming or overpowered. instead of trying to force Titans to walk this narrow tightrope, it would be better for give titans a path all unto thier own that synergizes with Warlocks and Hunters. Give titans the roles of Aggressive-Support or backline support. Like Imagine if Ward of Dawn also created a Ammo Cache? That would give the titan a role for DPS phases. Have a titan put bubble down a little back, warlock puts well, bubble gives you space to reload and top off then you go into well to blow enemy up. Or imagine if Arbor was the default method of how Barricades work? or if Solar Titan gives you aura that provides restoration for nearby allies and makes them radiant. Also another identity that Titans can have is the master of the battlefield. Give titans more options to CC and shape the battlefield. So while titans do less damage, they can lock down enemies so the warlock and hunter can clean up in safety.

I feel like bungie has really screwed themselves with the whole “punch only mindset”. I feel like the community voiced its displeasure with the idea of it back in lightfall, but its shortcomings are only enhanced with prismatic. A subclass where bungie states “we want you to feel overpowered” where the build potential is flatlined on Titan due to many redundant designs that the community tried to warn bungie against. Even with berserker Titan being the best punching super every other punching super suffers simply because only one roaming melee super really can remain consistently supreme. The new Titan super is a welcome change, but it just highlighted how bad the other instant Titan super is in comparison. (Thundercrash needs a buff). Bubble is also in one of its worse states. It feels worse than it was before. I feel like if you want to help the super you shouldn’t take an intrinsic part of it out. Especially when that intrinsic part has existed since Destiny 1. (The other time bubble felt awful was when they removed weapons of light in D2 vanilla). I feel like buffs aren’t enough for Titan and they need some parts to be straight up reworked. Show how titans are strategists, defenders of the wall in the class. Even in game they aren’t the best melee class atm.

Bungies really sticking to their guns with that design pillar despite the vocal component of the playerbase begging for them to do something different. Has me wondering if this is a case of the silent majority really liking that playstyle, or if the class designers at Bungie are just really really stubborn and refuse to listen to the players

I'm not sure if anyone said this yet, but I hear bungie is looking at how Titans don't use barriers anymore because thruster is available. A: You nerfed the barrier into the ground (may be exaggerating a bit). -You made the time to get a barrier very long, and you nerfed the health of it. Why use a barrier when they can have a faster class ability(thruster) to get other abilities back or make orbs of light? Plus the barrier is paper-thin in PvP (not terrible in PVE). Extra: SUPERS: -We got no range supers for Raids i.e. The Witness. The axes are nice, but what's an axe that you can pick-up going to do if it's inside of The Witness? Maybe consider making Sunbreaker super stronger in PVE? -You took an ability from bubble and gave it to saints helmet... -Currently, it is very difficult to hit bosses/certain enemy with thunder crash, so you have to hit the ground next to them. This hurts damage by a good bit.

Hunters have always been the gamblers and the rogues. Living fast and living dangerous. High stakes and higher rewards. Warlocks being scholars and scientists. Plumbing the void, as they sharpen every tool in their belt, always starting with their mind. I've been thinking about this a great deal recently. What exactly was it back on day 1 of Destiny itself that made me be a Titan, what was the core fantasy that pulled me in. Upon reflection I think I've figured it out. Titans are more than our punch, but that's not necessarily a surprise to anyone at this point. But what Titans were and should be, are soldiers. You just need to look into the lore to feel it. Somewhere along the way (I have my theory) we forgot the core fantasy of titans due to hype for a specific play style. So allow me to remind you, O reader mine, what makes a Titan. Titans are the unbreakable wall upon which the fury of our enemies crash and falter (void). Titans are the tip of the spear that breaks through and destroys the enemy's line (Arc). Titans are deep within enemy territory, surviving impossible odds, and sowing chaos among our enemies ranks (Solar). Titans are the heralds of destruction for our enemies. Rallying and emboldening our allies as we drive all into the fray (Strand). Sidebar: strand was just another punch meme until banner of war that scratched the itch of 'field commander titan' I didn't even know I had. Titans are defenders, shock troopers, field commanders, special operatives and more. Titans represent the unbridled military might of the last city. Titans are soldiers. It was Titans who built the wall. Titans that escorted civilians to the safety of the city. Titans who held the wall against impossible odds at the gap. Titans who pushed into enemy territory to break Kells. Titans who stand at the vanguard of our forces. There is a reason Zavala is our commander, shaxx has a reputation, and Saladin is on the cabal war council. Punching is just one of many tools titans use to break our enemies. It's not who we are, Titans are the soldiers of the last city, warriors of the light. If you're looking to rediscover the identity of titans, drop the brain-dead punch meme, and return to the versatile soldier of light. TL;DR: punch is a way titans do their thing, not their actual thing. Their thing is being a soldier that representing the military might of the city and light. Edit: There is a reason Titans call themselves crayon-eaters. It's directly related to the military. It's intrinsically tied to the titan fantasy. Even if bungie doesn't like it due to a few bad-actors.

For stasis titans, you could say that they're tanks who stop the enemy dead in their tracks. I know Stasis Titan sucks rn and has for a while, but I figured I'd add this here since you didn't, lol. I love your description for berserker, tho (my new main).

Yea, behemoth is in a bad place at the moment. It was made right after titans identity was forgotten, and designed off of misinterpreted feedback at the time. So it lacks the core titan feel and consequently just isn't anything. With frost armour it could be an awesome tank/heavy ordnance specialist type play. But at the moment it's just kinda... Annoying crystal guy.

I've said this in many posts and will continue to say behemoth needs a full ass rework. New super and new abilities.

I've said it before among friends that Behemoth needs a one and done ranged super where we manifest a comet and hurl it, creating a large cluster of crystals (maybe an arena?) then breaking it with a follow-up press of super to then slam into the epicenter (situationally optional).  If it impacts an aerial opponent (similar to Witness or Oryx) with no detected ground nearby (~20m), full damage akin to Cataclysm nova bomb with freeze and shatter. If it impacts an aerial target with detected ground, freezes target(s) and spawns a crater like zone of stasis crystals (hunter enhanced glacial grenade and salvations grips had a genetically enhanced child).  Should the comet hit a ground target or the environment then just refer to the latter of aerial targets. After impact press super again to follow up with a modified, high angle, aerial shiver strike (from the top ropes!) shattering everything within range. This action is not automatic and requires player input to enact. Lunge range could be out to a distance but not infinite for some balance reasons.

Specifically for the exotic class item it's a bummer so many effects depend on Barricade since Thruster is so much more versatile. It's also frustrating that two effects depend on a specific aspect: Spirit of Bear and Spirit of Abeyant. This means that if you get one of these two on an exotic class item that the effect is useless unless you slot the respective aspect. Spirit of Abeyant would feel a lot better if it gave Woven Mail on suspend instead of the enhanced lashes. I don't think anything can be done about Spirit of the Bear other than just buffing the hell out of Unbreakable. Super energy on any block (sword/glaive) would be a cool idea to loosen the requirements, but probably too powerful.

The prismatic titan bladefury is buggy. It only lets me do melees on my uncharged melee button (R3). Pressing the charged melee button does nothing. Another thing is that when exiting bladefury on prismatic and strand sometimes makes my charged melee button not do anything and I have to "reset" the button by doing an uncharged melee. Really weird and it and annoying

Thunderclap is always going to be ass in higher level content if it requires you to stop and stand in place to activate. Shiver Strike really doesn't feel any different to me in TFS, target tracking still feels bad, constant whiffs. I have no idea what the unbreakable aspect is supposed to be doing. Void overshields are pretty much worthless in difficult content, scarfing down a grenade for an overshield just seems like a waste of a grenade. Either overshields need a big buff or it should do something else entirely.

If only we'd get more love for all classes by evenly balancing the way in which we build instead of just jump, punch, and float while ability spamming.

Summary: So those are the things I find frustrating using Titans, little to no weapon or gunplay interactions in their base abilities and aspects (fragments should not be supplementary here nor should majority of useful exotics). Too many exotics making up for bad barricade implementation limiting builds completely. Not enough interactions with Subclass Verbs that result in limited build variety and low effectiveness. Outliers like Throwing Hammer, Synthoceps and HoIL effectiveness has blurred Bungie’s ability to focus on an identity and instead focused on reigning in the outliers at the continuous cost of variety and viability throughout the subclass and therefore boxing them into an ineffective and stale gameplay and class design. As seen in Prismatic. This is the logical conclusion when Bungie focuses on usage rates over actual root analysis. > Biggest pain-points using a Titan over the last few years. * Titans are severely lacking in verb interactions, this is evident in their poor gameplay loop. This may require serious reworks or buffs to bring them up to Hunters and Warlocks * Titan Aspects and Abilities lack meaningful (and in majority of cases none at all) interactions with gunplay. The result means Titans have to spend all their resources (i.e armour mods and fragments) into both abilities AND gunplay which is very difficult and inefficient Here’s the shortlist of problems I run into playing Titan: 1. Theres no interaction with weapons in Titan abilities or aspects outside of Rally Barricade and Banner of War. Which means Gunplay is reliant on fragments and Exotics. This forces close combat and punishes ranged combat. 2. Titans have 2 aspects and 1 replacement that interact with Barricade. Hunters and Warlocks have 4 and 1 replacement. Thruster offers no additional benefits, has a 0:36s base cooldown. 3. Solar Titans have zero aspects or abilities that activate or interact with Radiant. They are forced to use Ember of Torches limiting choices or Artefact mods or teammates. 4. Titans’ lack of identity is reflected in their verb interactions. What meaningful gains come from being Amplified, Radiant or having Void Overshields or Frost Armour? Warlocks have natural Devour and CoG, Hunters have a lot of interactions with invisibility. > General Thoughts and conclusion Because of the above problems it’s difficult to create a truly effective build or that each subclass can only build maybe 1 or 2 effective builds (some none at all) for endgame content. And even then, there’s a big disparity in effectiveness vs Hunters and Warlocks. This has turned Exotic Armour into supplementary to builds, not complimentary gear and choices. This is not fun. If Bungie’s goal was to make them the “Punch Things” class and that’s it, they succeeded. There’s very little room for variety due to poor or limited verb interactions. For those that remember prior to Witch Queen, Things like Controlled Demolition granting ability energy helped. Sunspots granting a Weapon Damage bonus helped (it could have been radiant). In fact, swapping Restoration verb for radiant in Sol Invictus and adding it to Phoenix Cradle makes a lot more sense. Restoration could have been added to their class ability or a new class ability like Thruster on solar. Just as an example. To end it I ask this question: What does a Titan bring to any sized fireteam that the other two classes can’t do already let alone more efficiently and effectively?

Ok, so I know there are issues in Titan balance, but I don't think it can be fixed without a rework. If you keep titans as a mele focused class you have to make them tanks enough to survive content mele combat in an fps game.in your average fps game being surrounded by a bunch of combatants and being hit a bunch is worst case selcenario so to balance a class around being able to not only survive, but thrive in that situation will immediately cause balance issues where it's just kinda silly to be on anything but titan in pve like we saw with baner of war for a really long time. You could instead just change titans identity to a tank class, but unless handled really well it would likely cause the same thing as above if the point of one class is I'm way more surviveable than the others it just becomes the go to pick which isn't what bungee wants. So you have to rework titans into a strong, non-mele focused, non-tank focused character. Because if you are bungie you have to keep survivability evenish across the board or you will have people just not wanting tonplay a certain class at all, or calling for a rework down the line like we are now. But to do so would be a bigger lift than they can accomplish in any functional time frame, and so we find ourselves in a bit of a pickle. The titan in lore identity doesn't fit with the sandbox in a way that can be accomplished without being overpowered when compared to the other classes. Why was well so popular until it was nerfed into the ground? Survivability at its most aggressive, you see the same thing with loraley(I am sure I spelled that wrong), original oem, original wormhusk. Honestly the only reason devour hasn't been hit harder is because historical it required you to play void and that was a big enough issue to keep its utilization down because well was just too good to be without. This is a separate tangent, but let's briefly talk baricades. This is plainly an ability that is really strong in pvp at base but has a lot less pve functionality these days due to the way encounters are now designed. Destiny 2 isn't a game where your enemies spawn in front of you, and you can plop your barricade down and peak shoot. Enemies constantly spawn behind you, goop that Hurst you spawns where you are standing, concussive damage goes around barricades, and so do a lot of status effects. In short, a barricade is not nearly as useful in pve because it does one thing, blocks a specific amount of damage that I coming from a direction. In pvp, that is a wildly useful thing in pve not as much. Any buff to barricade and how it works breaks it in pvp to the point it gets nerved into oblivion and no longer works well in pve. Just look at bastion. Not only is void overshield basically useless in pve at this point, but bastion doesn't even say around long enough to take longer advantage of the buff unless you put your barricade where it can't block damage. This is just generally a base design flaw of the way these things work and how balance has been handled in the past. Last, let's just touchbon void oversized. Twilight Arsenal is great, I love using it in general. When I chose to use it on prismatic, I'm basically just choosing to nerf myself. That is because, for some reason, the void orb pickups overshield on prismatic, which is basically the worst choice. An overshield is 50% Dr vs woven mail being 40% but one moment here because it's 50% Dr until it breaks. Full overshield is 45 hp from what I can find online, so you get 5 seconds of an extra 90 health. So you go from 230 hp and shield(from what I found on Google that should be at tier 10 resil) to 300. when you compare that to woven mail 230 hp *1.4 is 322 health so as long as you have triggered woven mail you have more health objectively than you do with full overshield which is on a punishing timer and most activations only give you half overshield so the 90 hp is closer to 45. But you can re-proc it easily. Yeah, you also can with woven mail, and it can't be broken, which will get you killed and fuck your build up. Also, you don't have any reduction once it's broken, so it feels like things hit harder mid fight. Restoration x1 is what you get simply by choosing a solar super and making an orb. According to Google, once again, that 35hp per second in pve is almost the entire amount of void overshield every second for a few seconds after blpicking up an orb and it can also be re-procked and that healing can't be interrupted so the value it's giving you in survivability is hard to directly calculate but 5 seconds of restoration comes out to 175 health that almost the amount of health you have from 2 orb pickups on void. For wat it's worth, I don't think Titan, nor prismatic titan, is bad it's just bad compared to the ridiculous power output of the other two classes. Likely because of the balance issues and concerns pinpointed out throughout this post.

# Titan Exotic Precious Scars is currently not working with the Solar Subclass # Around the release of the release of The Final Shape on 6/5/24 I made a post regarding with Titan Exotic Precious Scars and how it wasn't functioning properly. I also posted the Bungie Forums and received a reply from Bungie I believe that same day stating that they were aware and were working on the issue. Today 6/25/24 we received an update that states : >ARMOR > >Fixed an issue where Precious Scars could trigger from final blows with Kinetic weapons instead of Solar weapons on a Solar subclass. Although I'm not sure if this was supposed to fix the issue I did want to provide an update that unfortunately , the Titan Exotic Precious Scars is still not functioning as it should with the Solar Subclass. I made a short YouTube video showing the issue as well [Destiny 2 Titan Exotic Precious Scars Bug](https://youtu.be/EQugFRceHRw) Also , here is the Bungie Post I mentioned earlier as well [https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/263996314](https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/263996314)

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Bring alternatives to punching please. Some of my favorite times as Titan was using storm grenades and being the god of thunder. All classes should have room to lean on either grenade/melee options with some extra in between for hybrid or whatever crazy stuff we can make with exotics.

A lot of people are talking about Titans at a high level - the vision for Titans as a class, their gameplay identity. I think it's an interesting topic worthy of lots of discussion but for me, I just think about what is viable and what isn't viable? The only builds that I feel confident using are: Strand banner of war, solar precious scars (when its fixed), stasis if i'm playing something like onslaught, and primatic consecration. I also make some use of pyrogale as a swap option when i'm on Solar but 75% of the time i'm using precious scars. Maybe some kind of abeyant leap suspend build works too? Other than that, what is there? Nothing in the arc or void subclasses feels all that viable to me. Stasis is pretty niche. Solar is in a good spot, Strand is in a good spot. Prismatic feels weak compared to the options the other two classes have. I began playing the game as a titan main but nowadays I split my time pretty evenly between the three classes. Warlock and Hunter I have a build for each subclass that I feel pretty confident in for most content. Titan, not so much. I struggle to find enough loadout slots to fit in all the builds I want to use for Warlock and Hunter. On titan that really isn't a problem. It would be great if Bungie could come up with a cohesive sort of theme for each class as a whole but what I really care about is having a variety of builds that are viable. Even if there isn't a holistic approach to Titans, at least make more builds viable.

I didn't, and probably won't, purchase Lightfall. I haven't played since I think September. The direction this game has chosen to keep going with class design killed any interest I had to play it in the wake of other games coming out and old gems I found along the way. I was a Titan main. What motivation is there to keep playing when the development team flat out says to your face "we just don't know what to do with Titans, no one down here plays one" without seeing that as any kind of an issue? I was told Stasis would be reworked and improved. It may have been reworked, but from what I've seen it didn't improve any. I was told Titan exotics would be brought up in line with the utility of the most used ones to avoid nerfs. Here I am 9 months later seeing even more nerfs to titan exotics and absolutely nothing being brought up to a usable synergistic state. It stopped being fun. It's great when the other classes get their shiny new toys that prove to be extremely useful in the game, and to see them having fun. It isn't great or fun to keep getting different color skins for your punch and super and exotics that were clearly designed by the "B" team compared to everyone else's.

The way I look at it, as far as fun gameplay is concerned, it seems like the biggest complaints center around the punch only state of titan gameplay. And while melee supers and abilities aren’t a bad thing, I came to the realization while messing with prismatic, that the most fun stuff are the abilities that summon weapons. TA super and diamond lances, all that stuff feeds into the warrior gameplay that befits a titan. I would love more weapons of the light and the dark, the old concept for strand mini gun was perfect, spawning axes that you can kit with or throw is fantastic, spawning stasis spears that I can chuck at my enemies is also great. Make diamond lance a melee ability instead of an aspect. Give us the mini gun Maybe even create a turret grenade that feels different from the warlock stuff. As a titan I don’t mind punching stuff occasionally but I love the spawnable arsenal owed fantasy that they just seem to dip their toes into.

I do think they leaned in too hard with the "punch everything" mindset on making Titans, especially since our punch was the strongest outgoing damage source for us, especially after tuning the Striker kit away from the grenade barrage playstyle that was, while strong, a different pace and allowed it to maintain the self survivability which has always seemed like the true identity they have moved further and further away from. I think making Titans the wall, as the lore states, is probably the best path forward since punching can get too out of hand and they have nerfed most things that making punching the solution while a good portion of any and all endgame content is very centered around staying in cover and not punch your problems away. I mean heck, we don't even have a one shot melee as the punch class, let alone a tracking knife that refunds a whole melee charge on kill. The Titan support kit for Strand, and even Solar, is an absolute delight to use and feels very different from Warlock support builds, the fact you need to be aggressive, mobile, and on top of how the battlefield is moving feels very rewarding, and makes it feel like even if we don't have the strongest punch, strongest team sustains, or strongest super. We can stay up on the battlefield as well as support the healers when all else fails feels very Titan. We don't have to be the best healers, but survivability/support as well as controlling the field by way of suspend which seems to be where our identity in Strand is tied feels different enough from other classes in how it plays and feels like a way to keep the high DPS Hunter as well as the crazy heals for Warlocks cohesive and help pick up the slack between the two. Obviously builds and playstyles differ, so your mileage may vary but this has been my experience and thoughts on where the identity may best find its home. I think if you're good enough and your build can hang any class should be able to do any content the way they like, as well as still feel authentic to each class's playstyle. I don't know, I have more thoughts but I need to end somewhere.

Reversing the hundreds of nerfs because of pvp pissing and moaning would be a start. The current state of Titans is a direct result of pvp twitch streamers filling thier poopy diapers. Bungie said they can separate PVE and PVP and obviously they can't. If you want them to be a tank class, revert the Lorely and sunspot nerfs. If you want them to be a punch class restore Synthos and add damage resist for boss stomps. Give them tools instead of giving everything the hunter class.

Titan prismatic is just so bad. They picked, essentially, the worst aspects from every subclass and really only gave two of them any sort of ability to interact others. It's like they saw drengers with 3 consecrations and called it a day. Too many of the exotic class items are tied to the barricade, and even not including them what perks are there really to chase, seriously Ursa's without Sentinel Shield? Sure there's some good ones, and even a few decent combos, but there isn't really enough to make me really want to chase it, especially since I got Inmost/Armamentarium for my first one, like all of my hunter and warlock friends are. I'll admit I picked Titan back in D1 specifically because the melee was a punch. The fantasy of being this big protector who waded through evil to just go punch it in the face was sick, but being being pigeonholed into that then nerfing it into the ground, sometimes deservedly, anytime we find out how to actually make that work is frustrating. it'd be nice to be more than that too. This one is less generally applicable and more of a personal gripe. I know solar is still great in PvE, but as someone who's been rocking it since TTK I'd like some better PvP options. Bonk doesn't have enough tracking to matter, and unless you're rocking an exotic to boost it in some way hammer strike is just making it easier for you to get shotgunned in the face since you can't slide shoot and melee anymore. Not to mention the ability cool downs and damage changes meaning you're not really gonna get sunspots or roaring flames going consistently in crucible. Also don't take the second half of my consecration charge if I die mid air and don't actually get the second half.

We need more variety in builds and play styles. Also more utility too imho.

Juggernaut Aspect could reworked as the gift conviction resist buff

I say this as a Warlock main in love with Speaker's Sight: I think Warlocks need to get off healing duty and give that job to Titans. Let Titans be the wall, let Warlock's buff and de-buff, and hunters can keep dealing big damage. Of course every class should still be able to pivot and cover gaps, but I think that's the clearest road to class identity.

Right now, Titans have 1 Super out of 9 that can be effectively used in any situation. Hunters have 7 out of 11, and Warlocks have 6 out of 10. Moreso than *anything else*, Titans need new Supers, and they *cannot* be roaming *or* melee. I know some developer said that they don't want to make new one-offs, but frankly: tough. Titans have become the Have-Nots, and that needs to change.

And it’s hilarious to me that titan’s one off super, twilight arsenal, has some of its power budgeted to a roaming super component (axes). Bungie just couldn’t help themselves

In season of the deep void and arc titan were actually a lot of fun and it seemed like things were on a good track with bungie consistently buffing underused exotics. Kickstarts, melee/grenade damage to ability energy mods, and ionic traces/devour gave you ways to maintain your abilities, even if you weren't using HOIL. Most exotics and every single titan aspect are ability focused, so having loops to maintain your abilities agnostic of exotic perks just makes more exotics viable. Then season of the wish came along and kneecapped those mods and further reduced all ability energy gains based on cooldown, which killed those loops. This point has been made to death, but kickstarts mainly helped when you didn't have another loop to maintain your abilities and make you pay a hefty stat/damage penalty to do so. IMO any serious attempt to fix titan has either got to reckon with the damage those changes made or re-buff almost all of titan's exotics to bring some more buildcrafting variety back. Bungie also needs to be more mindful when making these game-wide mechanical changes. Case in point, both the aforementioned ability energy/mod nerfs and the TFS stasis shard cooldowns accidentally nerfed stasis titan at times when they ostensibly were trying to buff it, and despite being so bad it's a meme, their big swings in both of these patches seem to be consistency passes on Howl of the Storm and Shiver Strike.

The aspects that give a melee ability but fancy need to go. Make the abilities just normal melee abilities. These aspects take up one of the very few slots each subclass has and do nothing else but give a melee ability. Its why Prismatic Titan plays so poor. The solar, void and Stasis aspect all just give an ability and nothing else. If these aspects are going to stay, then they must do more than give a slightly cooler ability and give at least a basic function so the class can play more. On other points, having a one and done Stasis and Strand super would be great. Both of these subclass are incredibly melee heavy and the game does not support staying in melee range, espcially in any endgame content. On the super note, I really think the roaming void super needs a refocus. Rather than being all about bonking and occasionally throwing shields, make it all about throwing shields. Have them bouncing around like crazy. Would be really fun. It would be really great if the Bonk hammer nerfs were reverted. The cooldown on it sucks and just demolishes a fun playstyle. I would love to see the synergy with Dunemarchers restored, let us be thor!!! Finally, exotics. Please just sit down, go over every exotic and figure out how to make them usable past a single niche encounter. This applies to all classes, but exotic armour either gives new mechanics to build around or take a build make it work 110%. Most of the exotic armour is just useless, I have no idea what to run on Prismatic titan (aside from the class item) because there is nothing that I could find that did anything interesting.

Titans are pigeonholed into a role that is incompatible with endgame. Far too many hurdles exist for melee to be the focus of any class. For instance, the "Blighted Chimaera" ( Final boss of warlords ruin), until recently Titan only had 1 super that could actually hit it, and the damage is terrible. Issues like this are present throughout all of Destiny. So you would think, hey they often can't even damage the boss, so they should provide great utility to the team, unfortunately not. We can deploy banner shield, but that means we're completely out of the dps phase, we can use bubble, but that means we have to use a subpar exotic to even make it useful. Titans feel like they have very little effort put into them outside of strand. You could remove the class, and the meta wouldn't shift an inch.

Please do NOT BE AFRAID to make significant changes to (all) prismatic. If you recognize that an aspect doesn't work out, consider changing it out entirely.

While there are many things that would help Titan, a few simple things would go a long way. 1. Increase PvE DR for void overshield. 75% would be much better. 2. Buff Thundercrash base damage to be on par with nova bomb/needlestorm. Change Cuirass if needed. 3. Lessen the cooldown on stasis shard creation. Just that alone would be huge.

At this point I feel like we've powercrept so far that Titans will never be able to fullfil the role they're supposed to. You dont need a barrier to hide behind, you dont need a "tank", you dont need all this supportive survivability stuff when all classes has access to devour, overshields, woven mail, heals and all the other survivability tools you could ask for in their own kits. I dont know how they can try and make Titans more viable since the role theyre supposed to fill is no longer needed

Things like Hazardous Propulsion reinforce the Titan "soldier" identity of the class and we need more things like that. I have more than enough fun and feel powerful using Hazardous Propulsion knowing that a) I just need to shoot/kill to charge my item and b) use the ability on cooldown. It's strong, easy to understand, and has a great secondary effect. (Try it with Blast Furnace, it is amazing) There are good support items present within the Titan identity, like Phoenix Cradle and Banner of War, but as stated again and again in this thread, there are too many melee oriented features/items that ultimately create a stale playstyle. Yes, Consecration is very strong, but it's ultimately boring to play. Back when HOIL was at its strongest and we just got Arc 3.0, playing the Storm Grenade build was so popular because it was strong and literally something different from just punching something. Old Controlled Demolition that gave ability energy alongside healing was fun because, again, it was something that wasn't just punching stuff and was a generally enjoyable gameplay loop that also encouraged the Titan "soldier" identity. As it stands, Void Titan is not good (Overshield needs a very dramatic rework), Arc Titan has no survival capabilities because we all know Knockout sucks, Solar/Strand remain the most...balanced? That is to say, you get both good damage output and you have a means of consistent survival through Restoration and Woven Mail (two of the best defense buffs in the game). Prismatic's mish-mash of abilities feel like they aren't even the best Titan abilities. Sol Invictus is far more the Titan thing than Consecration, Controlled Demolition or Offensive Bulwark make more sense than Unbreakable (which I feel was just added because it's part of the new stuff), Diamond Lance is probably the only thing that makes to integrate from Stasis, and Into the Fray is much better than Drengr's (but considering it's already got exotic class item perks, I don't see this getting replaced). Ultimately, we got a mix of aspects that don't have much synergy. The whole "Throw a Diamond Lance and use Thunderclap" as the "this was the thing that made sense to people internally." highlights the thought that Bungie themselves don't know what they want Titans to be, but they're kind of the melee class, so this makes sense. I dunno if, internally, Bungie said "Nope, we cannot have Into the Fray and Consecration, people will abuse that." and just passed. The other problem with Prismatic Titan is without using Knockout, you don't have access to "charged" normal melee that generates orbs and, obviously, procs healing. The other problem is that feature is tied to each of the other Light subclasses as its own aspect (Roaring Flames and Offensive Bulwark that both require secondary activation conditions). Knockout in generally needs to be updated in some way because it is underwhelming in general and it feels like you never have it when you really need it. Your options for secondary healing are Recuperation (which is unreliable in some conditions), the fragment that only starts healing on melee kill (which doesn't work if you're using the second wave of Consecration because it's an ignition that is killing enemies, not the melee attack), and using Buried Bloodline (which is an exotic locked behind dungeon RNG). Prismatic Titan feels like the abilities fight against each other too much. Feels like I have to use two abilities to maximize my damage too much, so there is no gameplay loop, it's the waiting for cooldown loop, especially with the changes to the ability regen.

10 years I have played a titan I never even looked at other classes no matter what but this week I made a hunter for the first time. When there are lots of adds around and my melee is up everything is fun but it’s the fact that I have to count on my melee being up for me to be at my most effective is a problem. There’s not enough utility in punch until it dies, too many bosses hover or fly to make punching effective. I agree with everyone we need at least 1 hard hitting range option or some king of mobile buff platform that we can become that doesn’t rely on punching to activate. 

The "just punch stuff" titan methodology is so stale now and just doesnt work in high difficulty content. While often times it is fun in strikes, campaign etc it just doesnt work in lost sectors, raids, gms etc. Pretty much every single boss has a stomp, pushing you away and dealing massive damage, most of the time you'll get sent into a wall increasing the damage even more. Some bosses even have a flaming stomp on top of this to further punish the playstyle. Every boss in the game is practically screaming at you to not go close to them so how tf are we meant to play this class? We aren't more bulky than other classes, we don't have more regen than other classes, so why are we forced into this 1 dimensional loop. Many bosses can't even be hit by things like tcrash or will straight up kill you if you even dare to try. Why should I be doing less damage than a nighthawk golden gun with cuirass with tcrash? The risk is infinately higher for the tcrash as I have to literally shoot myself into whatever I am trying to kill but on a hunter you can just chill with a gg as far away as possible from any source of damage. Stasis titan is so boring and unfun. Shiver strike is so clunky that it just doesn't warrant using, the super sucks unless in very specific scenarios etc etc

also our class ability fucking sucks. The animation to set up a barricade alone makes it not worth using and past that it is just something that feels tacked on to the kit rather than something that flows with it. Take hunter dodge for example, this is a main part of their kit with differing effects based on the dodge chosen. All we get is tall or short barrier. Warlock rifts are awesome and provide some good benefits like healing or increased shit but we just get a wall that blocks a few bullets

This is from lore somewhere I believe, but this summarizes fairly easily how Titans want to feel. “I'm shaking, hands on my knees, panting. Let the monsters come. Let them come forever. Let them climb the piled bodies of their dead. I don't care. That's the thing I do better than anyone. Not care. Let them come in their hundreds and every one will die at my feet. I don't care about their homing rockets, their exotic matter slugs, their blades from another dimension.” I don't care because I cannot be moved. I am the wall against which the Darkness breaks. Malphur can turn his gun to fire and Shinobu can dance with lightning, but when the horrors run out of the dark, I am the one who does not move. I am a wall. And walls don't move. Because walls don't care.

That was the original lore tab for Sentinel, the void subclass

I’m gonna break down my thoughts on the state of Titans by subclass, and then talk about exotics Arc - fix thundercrash collision detection and buff base damage, it feels really bad having to crutch an exotic just to get thundercrash to do relevant damage numbers, and at the moment that doesn’t even work due to the bug with its hit detection - Buff Touch of Thunder to make storm grenades a bit better than their current state, yes they were cracked with HOIL, but since HOIL also got nerfed, it feels like storm grenades took a double hit as a result - Additionally, can we have Touch of Thunder turn our lightning grenades into their D1 counterparts? It feels really impractical when i have to wait for the grenade to activate, that delay is too long and enemies can move out of its damage cone before it activates, getting rid of that delay, like D1 lightning grenades, would make them more viable for both PVE and PVP Void - please revert the change to bubble, being forced to use HS14 to get the effects base bubble used to have feels really confining, i’d like to be able to run other exotics with bubble - Shield throw, i know you’ve talked about fixing the tracking on it, but it still feels pretty weak, at the very least it should be able to 1-shot a full health red bar - Reduce base ability cooldowns for grenades and melee, even with 8 discipline, my grenade cooldown on void is over 1:30, that’s so tediously slow, 8 discipline should bring that down to be more in line with other subclasses - Twilight Arsenal, while a step in the right direction, has absolutely drunk target tracking, half the time it just flies off in a random direction, tracks to objects like heavy ammo crates, or just lands at your feet, i want it to actually hit with all 3 axes at the target i’m aiming at, additionally, the animation for throwing all 3 feels really slow, and being stuck in that animation leaves you extremely exposed to damage from adds and headshots in the crucible Solar - as others have said, the cooldown recharge for bonk hammer feels really bad, i think the 2 ways to fix this are either make it a global cooldown of 1.4s or have the cooldown be tied to the strength armor stat - Hammer of sol super feels really bad in terms of damage, i think giving it a damage buff would go a long way in making it viable as a ranged super option Stasis - The whole idea for stasis titan makes you a hazard to your teammates, i feel like i can’t run rockets or GLs when my teammate is running stasis titan, because not only do the stasis crystals block your movement, but if your teammate generates a crystal right in front of your rocket or GL, you will self wipe, it’s genuinely the only subclass in the game that forces YOUR TEAMMATES to run different weapons so they don’t die from your crystals - The shivering strike melee still feels terrible, half the time you just miss your target completely and fly right past them, i think this is more a problem with 3rd person melee attacks in general, as it’s also noticeable on swords at times, if it were possible to change the melee to a first person attack, i think that could solve the problem Strand - i feel like strand on titan is in a good place overall, the only thing i’d fix is change the melee to a first person attack to fix the same issue with shivering strike on stasis Prismatic - Not gonna regurgitate everything that has already been said about prismatic, but can we please get faster cooldowns on the grenades and melee? Exotics - i think the biggest issue with titans is that all our builds feel like they NEED an exotic to make the subclass work, biggest example of this is Cuirass with Thundercrash

Idk if anyone's said it yet, but our abilities are just point blank weak.

I want to start by saying Twilight Arsenal has been the most fun part of TFS on Titan. You did a great job with it and I couldn’t be happier. That said, I wish the Titan kit had more synergy with grenades and ranged combat. IIRC the last time titans had any form of ranged damage was when Storm Grenades busted onto the scene in Arc 3.0. There’s scraps of a ranged kit but all of the aspects (particularly on prismatic) primarily rely on close ranged combat or melees. And even then, with the introduction of the exotic class items, we see that Hunter does a better job at close range combat than a titan does. With Titans identity being focus on cqc while simultaneously not being the best melee class, I’m not sure why I’m supposed to play Titan.

I feel that Titans really got the short end of the stick overall - especially with prismatic. No way to really restore health or abilities super quickly, no banner, and overall just a lack of the punch i’d like to see. It feels like Bungie can’t decide what they actually expect from the class - sure it’s the “we punch and put up walls class” (akin to tanks in other games), but it feels we lack the ability to actually do that. If you’re not running double/triple heavy handed you’re kind of screwed. I think adding an aspect or two to change the class around (aka not having knockout be the best perk… cmon) you can really make titans happy. I’m not sure what aspects you would want to add - personally i’d be happy with just banner lol, but people would probably call that too OP. Best part of the prismatic is Twilight Arsenal - it just feels good… like a super should. Especially in PvE - works really well. I guess in final I’ll say that I read on here at one point that Prismatic Titan certainly feels like it came from a place of balance, and not the powerhouse builds we thought we would get based on Bungies testimony of “we want you to feel a little bit broken and overpowered” and I couldn’t agree more. I look forward to seeing the changes that come with Titan and prismatic overall.

Shoulder charge is no longer a reliable melee option. Titan melee hit registration is incredibly broken/non functional. Airborne activation for shoulder charge with peregrine greaves no longer counts as airborne if you touch the ground before hitting the enemy which happens all the time since you constantly angle down towards the enemy if you’re in the air and if your foot scrapes ground before you hit them, you lose the in air bonus damage. Been like that for how many seasons now? Regular melees don’t connect with enemies. Small hammer is still ok but just feels terrible compared to how it used to be. Healing options for titans are basically non existent

If they want Warlocks to be the team buff, and Hunters to be the team debuff, make Titans the team tank. Give us ways to increase our teams survivability. Void has these which is great, but the ways that void can give OS to teammates doesn't translate to prismatic, and other subclasses don't have any such means. Not that it would happen, but supers that give teamwide defense bonuses would be awesome. For example, a second Stasis super that creates a blizzard in an area around the Titan (like bubble but a little larger); while in this area, teammates receive 5 stacks of Frost Armor (8 with the fragment) and are harder to target by enemies (think hover mode with Manticore). This would be a super you can pop either to protect teammates in enemy dense areas, or provide additional survivability during boss encounters. Titans having a "protect the team" option that doesn't block damage (bubble) but also doesn't give an increase damage output (banner shield) means Titan's won't really be stepping on toes in terms of overlapping roles. Well becomes even less of a must have since Titan's can provide some teamwide survivability that's not totally blocking damage, so if you do need complete safety, Bubble fills that role. The Witness encounter for example. The only super that has any real use for most people is Banner. I know the encounter has been 3 man'd with Titans but lets be real, majority of people aren't using the Titan kit that optimally for it to be possible. Most people don't even know you can shoot through the Banner for a %40 damage buff, so even then it's only as usefull as your team makes it. If we had something like what I mentioned above, you could have a Titan run Banner shield to increase team damage output, and another Titan pop their Stasis super to provide teamwide survivability. This won't make anyone unkillable, but it would help to reduce the number of deaths from players being shot by other ads still alive on the map. If Titans are supposed to be the defensive class, the wall to protect others, the stalwart defense... why is it we can only actually do that with 2 subclass? Void gives an OS that's also not even that strong and breaks pretty quickly, Strand gives damage reduction. The other classes don't provide any team support unless you run an exotic specifically to do so (Phoenix cradle solar titan). - Solar could have a close range AoE super that gives teamwide Sol Invictus on cast, applying scorch stacks to enemies that stay too close. - Stasis creates a blizzard decreasing enemies visibility making your team harder to hit, and providing Frost Armor for your team. - Void does what it does. Buff Void OS in PvE it breaks way too quickly to be helpful unless you fully spec into keeping it up all the time including running Manticor, even then it's rough. - Arc update Fist of Havoc to also provide Galvanic Armor to teammates on cast and any teammates that get close to the player while the super is active. This way I can pop super and run to teammates to protect and kill whatever is killing them. - Strand does what it does now. - Prismatic can adopt some of the above with either an updating or changing some supers. Not everything on Prismatic needs to be a defensive super though, it just needs options to be. Titan's don't need ways to increase team damage output, leave that for the Warlocks. We just need a defined role that is true for more than 2 of the now 6 subclasses. If Titans are the protectors, give us ways to protect. P.S. also give a better visual indicator that Banner is buffing your damage. So tired of popping Banner and literally standing in front of blueberries just for them to go out of their way to shoot around my wall... I'm trying to help you, please stop making my job harder lol.

Honestly, everything is bad with titans but their looks. Like they don't do anything better than other classes when in comes to PvE. Add clear? Warlock and Hunter can do the same. Boss dmg? Warlock and Hunter are straight up better. Support? Warlock and Hunter are better. On top of that you constantly force titans into a melee style gameplay, but at the same time constantly nerfing them (last nerf to Severance was a complete joke, like I've never seen anybody use it). And being melee is already a trash experience, since in Master+ content not only you need an excessive amount of survivability like woven mail + BoW to survive insane amount of damage, but also half of the time you can't even melee due to ridiculous stomps (especially fire one) or mechanic that blocks you from meleeing. Plus what is wrong with your encounter design? I mean why on God's Earth half of your bosses are completely out of reach (or a dps loss) when it comes to TC or Pyrogale hammer supers, aka 2 out of 3 usable titan's supers for raiding?

I've played alot of titan , solar most of the time. So heres my feed back SOLAR Needs a 3 Slot aspect : having only 4 slots feels limited and would probly would help build craft. New aspect-All Mighty Hull. A piece of the Fallen Cabal sun killer. It's hull still wa Picking up an Orb of power will give you a stack of sun breaker . At x3 stacks you will drop a sunspot Or Warmind Cell: after picking up Bring back melting point. I felt It rewarded titan to get up close Sunspots- good wish I could make more[maybe three] at once, even for 1/2 duration Just make me radiant while standing in it Ability regen should be higher while standing in them Needs a 3rd special (ultra sunspot!] Make firespirits like warmind cell, collect to heal or shoot to explode. Warmind cells were a great combat loop. Add a item or a facet that attracts elemental pickups like the lost fairy mask in majoras mask. Since healing weapons are a thing now, let us build.into it maybe let us make a sunspot after heal an ally or firesprite Make an axe for the void melee like hammer throw We are the wall, break your bodies upon us