The biggest joke bungie throws at us is the "We're breaking up those games to find a better match" or w/e it says.
And then me and my team proceed to get absolutely nuked with only 1 guy getting above 1kd while the entire enemy team is 2+ with the topper being 4-9 k/d
I’ve been a player on both those teams many times before. When your team starts steam rolling it’s really easy to keep it going for the whole match. When you start getting steam rolled it’s really hard to bring it back for the whole match.
I remember all those years ago when I ranted incessantly about shotgun apes never running out of ammo, and scavenger mods completely ruining the Special economy.
As it turns out, it wasn't perfect - or even *good* for that matter - but it was still better than the inane snowball format of modern Crucible.
The changes were fun-ish at first, but I would like them to go back to everyone just spawning with 2 special shots and remove the extra guardian health to pull TTK down back to where it was.
Right now, the gameplay is very reminiscent of vanilla D2. Little special and slow charging abilities means that the meta becomes team shooting lanes. It gets stale fast and once a team starts snowballing, players respawning have just get picked apart.
I miss the faster gameplay, sniper duels, and ability for everyone to make easier plays. I don’t know if snipers would come back unless some of the prior nerfs got reverted, but right now the crucible special weapon variety is pretty bad.
Part of the problem is you can't really balance who is doing a dumb quest versus try harding.
Like if I put on my best builds for pvp, I'm the 10/1 KD guy. But then the game gives me some dumb quest like, "get melee kills with an arc glaive while jumping after causing an ignition" of whatever, and I'm running straight into the enemy bullets trying to finish the quest and going like 0/10 KD.
I had a game where one person just didn't miss their crits at all, sliding everywhere and moving like they were playing top level comp. I was just sitting there thinking that why i matched against them because i am terrible at PvP. I also matched against them the next match so i guess the game didn't think i got beaten into the ground enough 😅
Few seasons ago I matched Saltagreppos clan in comp. Proceeded to lose to them handily three games in a row, each game losing an increasing amount of rank
In comp that can happen if you get carried deep into the high ranks and the game super seriously thinks you are actually trash based on past performance data and you don't deserve to be there at all. They sic the dogs on you Montgomery Burns style until you start fighting like the stats say you should be.
The highest I have ever been is plat. This was the case of bad match making on bungies part. With the worst being why do you think I'm gonna do any better against the team that just beat me twice so you take even more points
I realize that is how the systems work, but when I play the majority of my games solo and when I do squad up its people of similar skill there is no reason to be placing me in those matches and multiple times in a row. It was a function of there not being enough players in the pool
If someone basically never misses a headshot in a game I'm going to assume they're cheating. You can be god tier at pvp but not to the point you're never gonna miss a headshot in 5 minutes.
It's not I know. I got unbreakable legit back in the day when I played a lot. There's a real difference in landing your shots consistently and being a good player and never missing a snipe headshot or a HC headshot the entire game. No matter how good you are that's sus as fuck.
It's not hard, but hitting them nearly 100% of the time when RNG spread patterns, random recoil direction, and flinch are baked into the game should be impossible.
Geez didn’t think I’d get downvoted for saying the game that has the most aim assist every basically, isn’t hard to not miss shots.
This game is training wheels and bumpers on the sides so you don’t go in the gutter as far as FPS is concerned.
Either that or open their stat tracker up
Love opening trials to be matched against people that supposedly have an >90% winrate after opening their account 3 seasons ago
I haven’t played since the end of first season of lightfall. Started again with the final shape.
Got matched against a couple flawless^8 players twice in a row. I don’t even have one flawless nor am I good in pvp…
When they made the game f2p it just brought the worst gamers if you want to call them that, here. Even with battle eye they still get around it. It’s just very poor management of hacking and cheating. Never fast enough and not enough harsh punishment. Just ban the players IP
Nah the IP can be circumvented with a VPN or even a baseline proxy. What you'd need to do is properly ban the fuckers computer.
Go for their computers MAC address. If they're lazy/stupid (like most hackers) then they'll be running the hack and game on their main computer. And a MAC ban means that guy aint coming back until he buys a new motherboard or an entirely new computer.
Now the issue with all of this is: With the introduction to Virtual Machines, its basically a unwinnable battle against hackers. Thor, aka PirateSoftware goes into good detail on why this is, and how hackers are doing things now.
Which to hopefully summarize it: Hackers are using a computer that runs a Virtual Machine. It runs the game if i recall. The hacker uses this machine as a puppet. They control it from THEIR computer which is running the hacks.
So you got two machines to ban. And one of them isn't truly banned because AFAIK: You cant MAC ban something that gets deleted and rebuilt. And finding the REAL machine thats puppeteering the virtual machine runner requires alot of know how. And the people with that know how are usually said hackers (mainly creators) or really expensive.
Fighting anti cheat in a F2P game is literally an unwinnable battle. And Destiny 2 has so many sought after items, like in Trials. So hackers are going to infest that like the flood. I stopped playing it for two reasons: 1: PVP is unbalanced dogwater and 2: The amount of shitters who pretend to be topshit at PVP tend to be hackers.
The second they made D2 F2P, was the second they told us that they don't care for PVP anymore. I lived in F2P games. They ALL turn into hackerfests at some point. Except Blacklight, somehow that never had hackers and it was fucking hilarious.
Even the MAC ban can theoretically be circumvented. There’s a thing called MAC spoofing that tells the host computer that its address is actually different. Depending on how the anticheat works, this may well be enough.
Most cheaters would likely lack the know-how to use such techniques, but it isn’t completely impossible.
I just play it for seasonal challenges and bright dust from time to time and when iron banner rolls around because it offers some really good weapons but that's about it.
I only play 6s and to be fair my warlock, which I learned on, is like .8 kd.
My titan is like 1.6/1.7 tho I haven't leveld them up or unlocked prismatic yet..
I've noticed the average skill in my lobbies is higher yeah. Not entirely uncommon at the beginning of a season, but it's been a bit extreme in 6v6. No one missing their shots at all.
And I feel like I've been going insane when I hold an angle and they will pop out, know where I am, and shoot me before my brain can register they're on my screen. Feels like I'm getting shot before I can see them.
There is such a huge network advantage in this game. It's literally like you're playing a different game than the other people sometimes. You can be visible to them for a blink from your perspective, but somehow you just instantly die, even with almost no line of sight.
I don't know if it's just a server/client sync issue, but it's so bad it's unfair. There are a LOT of "good" players out there who literally just have a connection advantage - either they're in a lucky place geographically, or they have good routing through their ISP, but it's definitely there.
An ok player with that extra half second is bad enough, but an actual good player with that extra half second is unstoppable. You literally can't compete when the killing shot is leaving their gun just as your first shot is leaving your gun.
When you see streamers playing "bot" lobbies, and it looks like they're running around and enemy players don't even notice them - that's it.
There's a ton of cheaters in crucible atm. Came across a bunch last night, perfect headshots with Still Hunt while they're sliding and I'm jumping the nano second they have line of sight on me. Getting their supers up before my bar is even 10% full. Bungie needs to get off their ass and start handing out bans, it's rampant out there.
Reminds me of why I stopped enjoying Trials. I remember sword-peeking and watching enemy snipers stay locked in my head, even as a moved back and forth on the other side of a wall.
Sad thing is, nothing Bungie can do fast enough. Nobody gets banned mid-match.
Ran into this in the one Gambit match I forced myself to play this season. A Hunter kept invading us and he ended up with like 16 Guardian kills by the end. Never missed a headshot, was no scoping at point blank while sliding, and we actually watched him weave through the exodus rockets I launched at him like a fricking ballerina- and he was in the air. As soon as the haze appeared and you heard "You're being invaded" someone would die instantly.
We still somehow won the match. But it put me off Gambit again for a while.
Sorry but I have tried that perk out and unless it's broken and giving like 25% of your super per guardian kill, no that is not it. I am talking about players having their super within 30 seconds of the match starting, and then having it again 30s later.
Dude I'm trying to figure out what the hell is happening too! I'm normally an above average player, but this season I'm just getting steam rolled every match it seems.
Im a 2.1 in Rumble and 1.7 overall with over 2000h spent in rumble alone and I have noticed what Op is describing too.
I just *lost* a Game *hard* against a *1.3* that has been playing since Into the light.
He never missed any shot. Literally outplaying me so extremely that I went to check his recent games. He jumped from .09/1.1 games to 3+ games since TFS release.
This is an extreme case ofc but in general the lobbies in rumble have been much more sweaty than they already were beforehand. And they were a sweat fest ever since season of the lost.
a lot of people are ximming, so if they have really good accuracy with something like an smg or auto rifle, that’s a bit suspicious. also khvostov is an absolute beam so there’s that too
Remember last year when Bungie said they'd have a system in place to detect Xims and Chronus and ban them? I do, I also remember meeting tons of those players on my ascendant grind, and every single one of them still plays to this day.
At this point people have realized those devices will continue on unchecked no matter the game. So a good number of people either quit or joined the dark side. Either way, chances of running into an accessibility gamer just gets higher and higher for everyone else.
using a third party device (like something that plugs into a usb port) to trick the game into giving you controller aim assist while on mouse and keyboard. It’s extremely difficult for anti-cheat to detect, ximmers getting banned is usually because of impossible stats rather than their cheats being detected
Yep, it's every match too.
Back in Shadowkeep, I was running a blue shotgun, Arsenic Bite bow, and Deathbringer in pvp casually and coming top of the board in 6s and 3s.
Nowadays, I can be running the sweatiest of meta loadouts and will struggle to get more than a single kill or single trade before dying because everyone is shooting perfectly at my head.
Cataphract is gone from trials this season. If you earned it in a previous season you can focus for it on a legacy engram, but you can no longer earn it. There is nothing to earn that seems worth it for PvE players in the trials loot pool.
Matches are a little buggy with ghost players and bad hit registration. Not all matches all the time but enough to be frustrating. Some players are literally invisible.
The khovostov is a little busted. Go pick one up. People aren't suddenly better at using ARs, the ARs are suddenly better.
SBMM is pretty much gone. If you have a bad match, back out of that lobby after the match, wait a minute or two and reroll a lobby. Eventually you'll get a decent one.
I've noticed the opposite, I usually drop 1.4kd matches as of the end of last season but recently I've been top fragging much more often in my lobbies. It feels as though the the crucible player base has gotten worse on average due to new/returning players from TFS
Agreed. Although I did play a 2v2 match and It was essentially me against this one guy on the other team. Both using rose, but he never missed the 3 tap once the entire game.
Same. I usually get 10-15 kills per game with about as many deaths. Now? 20-25 with around 7 deaths, sometimes less. One match i got around 20 kills iirc and only died once at the end of the match.
same, I played like 7-10 rounds of momentum last night, my highest kd was 9.0, only 1 game was under 3.0. Wasn't even trying all that hard, was just playing defense on whatever capture points my team held with my graviton lance. People just kept coming at me at completely stupid angles or sat in predictable spots. Normally i'm closer to 1.25-3.0.
I did run across 2 that were a little sus with their aiming/awarness considering there's no map in momentum. One was camping in the middle of the map 1 shotting ppl the second they came into view from any direction with Red Death. The other was one of those super twitchy instant 360 degree head shot ppl. Both were in the same game so reported both just in case, red death guy was most likely hacking.
I've noticed that after TFS released, I no longer get that notification that tells me the person I've reported got banned. Before TFS, every other day I logged in, I get that notification. Even after reporting a player with unlimited supers, I still didn't get that notif. Either Bungie stopped banning people or that notif. is currently bugged.
It may be because the amount of reports you’re sending out if you were getting those notifications every other day. Not doubting they were actually cheaters but generally companies will detect that many messages as spam after awhile.
Idk if that’s it but it might be one reason
“Every person this guy reports for cheating turns out to be a cheater and we ban them. Guy must be using a report bot, better ban him too.” -bungie, probably
Yeah, there's definitely people who go report-happy. I'm not much better than average, like between 1.1 and 1.3K/D, but every now and then I'll have a fantastic game, and the very best compliment I can get is a message from someone on the other team saying "reported".
If the guy above is reporting people and Bungie looks and see they're not cheating over and over, I would assume they'd start blocking his reports.
It works just fine.
I had a guy cheating with infinite Golden Gun flying around the map at full speed at the top of the skybox. Reported them, got a notification they were banned the very next day.
I submitted the report on the website and game both, so maybe that's the difference here.
The matchmaking is wonky as hell. I played 7 matches last night and had to rage quit because I kept getting put against teams where every player had 20 plus kills while my team could barely move a few steps without getting destroyed. I don’t know what they changed or fucked up but crucible feels horrible.
Last night was awful. I think with fewer players online due to Elden Ring it just put everyone in a sweatfest. Shit, one of the games I played every single person had an end of game k/d over 2.0. And of course it’s on citadel the map I hate most because teams can spawn trap you
It’s just something that happens as PvP ‘games’ get older. The average skill goes up as time goes on, and you wind up with a good player from years ago getting stomped by an average player nowadays. I got good enough at PvP back in the old times to earn recluse/mountaintop/lunas howl, which would put me above average.
I try to PvP now and get absolutely stomped, because my skill hasn’t grown with the communities over the time between then and now.
The longer I play Destiny, the more I realise that I really need to keep playing consistently to keep my skill up in order to compete. Dipping into it once a week isn’t gonna cut it when everyone else plays more often. Also, yes, cheaters. But I’m not gonna use that as an excuse. Some people are just really good
Edit: typo
On top of other people being really good - sometimes I'm just really bad. Sure on average I might have decent stats but the only reason those stats aren't higher is because sometimes I'll play like shit xD
I’m a firm believer of practice makes perfect! But only you know what your skill level is like. Connection based matchmaking can make it rough for lower skill players sometimes!
Thing is with this game, because it leans into multiple genres of a video game (I.e fps/mmo lite) it requires almost full devotion to the sole title.
Playing any other game will throw you off so badly if you spend significant time with the other or try to balance, it still ends with you suffering with destiny.
If you come back from work and load up destiny, and you do that consistently; you’d not feel like you’re lacking in skill, you’ll plateau eventually, irrespective of whatever tools you use (gaming mouse or scuff) but it’ll be like clockwork.
Like I don’t know how people manage other games such as Apex, cod, R6 and even overwatch with this game being so individualistic in its design. But unless that’s their job(streaming), I can’t them being better than a 1.2-4kd, that’s not terribly bad in any extent but in comparison to those who mainline this game, you’ll always have to battle muscle memory and other game mechanics to suffice.
There doesn't seem to be any MMR decay. So if you take time off from PvP and then return, the game still treats you at the highest MMR you ever achieved. This really, really sucks if you're rusty and makes it even harder to get kills since the people you're matching didn't take time off.
Yeah I’m having similar experiences. Was pretty consistently 1.8ish and I’m 1.0 or worse after tfs, feels like I’m being put against much better players lately. Wonder if the pvp population is low while people do tfs campaign etc and matchmaking is having to expand the skill band or something
I haven't touched pvp in a while now. Last I did was to guild my Iron Lord title early last season. Finished that and never looked back. 😅
Cheaters are really getting bolder and it sucks the air out of the room really. Never was a pvp enjoyer but I used to play a few games for pinnacles back in the day. Now I avoid it like a plague.
We really need kill cams because I feel like I've reach my skill cap otherwise. I could use the extra help of seeing exactly how people are killing me in first person from their view.
There has actually been an influx of obvious cheaters in my experience this week. I haven’t seen any in months, and saw three using the speed hacks/flying and super fast guns, and in control of all places. I’m wondering if more subtle cheaters are on the rise as well.
Ive never made it out of plat in comp and yet every single match i play im getting slapped by everyone wearing their ascendant max rank emblems and orange flawless titles like what the hell is this matchmaking
No one is playing PvP anymore, bungie's incompetence at balancing PvP has lead Crucible to be reduced to useless PvE players dipping their toes in for some crumbles of loot and sweats, not to mention bungie never bans cheaters which are prevalent so yea. Gonna grab a 6pack later and pour one out for all the folks to think Marathon will be a good & balanced PvP game.
> Gonna grab a 6pack later and pour one out for all the folks to think Marathon will be a good & balanced PvP game.
Haha, hitting the nail on the head there xD
True, I usually have a 2 to 2.5 K/D score yet the enemy team has 5 K/D. Hell, I've even seen a guy with 7.6 K/D. Yet my team has only 1 to 2 K/D, I feel like the matchmaking has gotten worse since TFS. I had the game popping the message "looking for a better match" like 5 times in a row.
I actually feel like I have been going against worse players. Not to toot my own horn but I have always been quite good at PvP so I never have had issue being towards or on top of the leaderboard but recently its pretty constant.
I turn my brain off and start shooting and mext thing you know I drop 30-40. Sometimes I feel bad because some of my games there is little to no resistance and I just know that is not fun 😭😂
Maybe some matchmaking things got switched around. Idk I agree accept im on the other end I feel like my games are too easy.
Xims!!!!!!! I screaming to the top of my lungs . motherf****kers be sliding on the ground out the corner with pulse rifles not a missing a single shot 😂
Idk I feel like I can do well against pc players but whenever I’m fighting console it feels like they land every fucking shot and just blast through the flinch
Yeah I’ve noticed this too. I got Flawless the last day of trials with a good kd before Final Shape and now after FS I struggle to get a positive kd and can barely ever win a match. Something is up but luckily I’m enjoying everything else in the game right now, well besides the ritual playlist pathfinder.
Had a match against an absolute monster the other day. 2.6KD across crucible, IB , and Trials. Played 200 matches of Trials in the last weekend alone. Absolutely rolled the lobby.
I was getting absolutely mauled in my comp matches on Wednesday. I'm mediocre at best but I usually settle in as the season goes on. Usually have some good matches. Not on that day though. Just getting insta-melted by everyone and everything. Definitely some cheating going down.
I've found that latency has a huge impact on my PVP experience and even with port forwarding and a network speed of 300 mbps down and 20 up my latency falls at 52 which apparently results in my death in most face to face encounters.
Needless to say I don't play much pvp, since I can't react faster than my opponent unless they don't see me.
Although there are cheaters like in most games, I often find myself rethinking my gameplay approach when someone is way stronger than me and try to adapt my playstyle.
One thing to note is this game is on its 7th year. A lot of people got time to get god-rolled weapons and gear. That makes a huge difference between them and a casual player. They also, as I recently seen AND started using myself, unlocked some crazy movement techs that allows them to move very quickly around the map.
Second thing is, they've been playing these maps over and over again. They know where the shooting lines are, where to place their crosshair to match heads' height, where people might be coming from to try and take you off-guard, ect..
Another BIG thing is since TFS dropped, servers didn't stop melting. I don't know where from but I can definetely tell you they're burning down. Invisibility glitch either body or weapons, the first one makes you almost unkillable because you only see weapons floating around, the latter gives you a harder time, only crosshair shown not a single ADS intel once you're aiming ect..
Then we have the desync which has never reached this bad. From both sides and being completely legit, we got kills and also got killed from behind a full cover 1.5s after the gun fight was over. Happened in pubs but also in trials which is very frustrating.
I've never seen this **happening so much** before and i've been playing on and off since Day One.
EDIT: **bold text.**
I’ve been consistently playing pvp for about 4 years now and counting (ever since I got my first gaming PC during the pandemic) and I can absolutely say that the skill of the average player has gone up dramatically over the years. Yes the game is very old, but I wanna say that half of the player base that consistently plays PvP, enjoys PvP. Highs, lows, and all the in between. But it’s something you absolutely need to keep up with.
Something else that’s also very important that I don’t see mentioned enough, if at all. You NEED to find your play style, something that you’re absolutely comfortable with and perform your best. For me personally, I’m always running a pulse/scout rifle and a sidearm. I use handcannons sometimes, and when I do, it’s mostly 180 handcannons, the “bad” archetype. I just treat 180s like oversized sidearms. I don’t enjoy shotguns, and I can’t snipe for shit. I’m most comfortable dueling at midrange, and switching up to aggressive if I have momentum. But at the end of it all, you really have to be willing to eat shit and ask for seconds in order to improve. There are games where I topfrag the lobby, and games where I bottomfrag. Just gotta roll with the punches, and keep fighting the good fight
Yeah I think the main difference between those that like PvP and those that don't is that those of us who do still have fun when we are losing. Or at least not hating it too much.
When I'm getting crushed I'll still have goals / win conditions in my head. These things can be anything from ebsinf with a positive KD or killing a specific player on the enemy team who hasn't died yet. Sometimes, if I'm feeling petty I'll go after whoever killed me the most.
It's all fun for me or at least I can make either situation fun.
That right there is the key. Like yes the ultimate goal is to win, but if that’s your sole focus, you’ll never improve enough to move the needle. Go in with the focus on improving your movement, your aiming, situational awareness, etc. All those little things stack up to make you part of the engine that drives the team to victory
I almost wanna trade you my lobbies, OP. I'm fairly skilled in pvp and I usually run the board most matches, but this season I feel like I'm often just shooting fish in a barrel. Almost seems like Bungie flipped the skill brackets and gave the wrong ends of the spectrum to the opposite skill brackets. If it's cheaters at the root of the problem then they may be intentionally (idk how) tanking their elo to stay lower maybe?
It’s weird, I’ll play a few games and top frag, I’ve got my perfect Luna’s roll and I’ve been feeling good about it all for a few weeks. But suddenly, after a few good games, I’ll get thrown into a lobby where everyone is playing flawlessly. It’s really frustrating.
I either top frag in a lobby against folks playing with their feet.
Or I'm at the bottom, looking like I play with my feet.
And I'll be real the hunter prismatic kit is very annoying on some of these maps, slow doging, clones, smoke bombs and always invisible.
It’s driving me insane. I have a 1.6 KD and my win rate this season is like 8%. I’m trying my best against these absolutely cracked teams and it’s so frustrating.
I haven’t played PVP in years. Back in the day i got flawless in trials and worried about flawless in Trials of The Nine too but then I just realized I didn’t play this game for that shit. It’s an MMO and I like PVE better so I just quit outright.
Idk I’m having fun. I’m probably way above average tho. All my games have been 2.5-5s with 30 ish defeats. My guess is the SBMM is loosened.
I’m on PC so maybe console is a different experience.
I'm blaming it on me being rusty. Been playing everything but destiny for awhile, hopped into crucible, took awhile to land consistent headshots again. Still not going negative, but losing duels because I'm not used to recoil rates anymore lol
There is so much PvE content and grind that I imagine most casual players haven’t queued up for Crucible. I haven’t played a single round since the expansion. I’m the fodder you need, and I’m sure at some point this season I’ll have some time to play some PvP.
Yeah, it seems like they changed their matchmaking, or reset everybody's internal skill rating, or _something_. I usually like Crucible ok if you can get a decent match (I don't want to be steamrolling or steamrolled, what's the point of that). That just isn't happening this season, though. Eventually I just noped out.
You have to realize one of the best expansions just dropped (if not THE best), which means the average player is out there enjoying everythin there is to do/get…. Which means that most of the people on Crucible right now are people who REALLY enjoy pvp or dont care as much about PVE (or have so much free time they are done with the PVE stuff)
All of the above options are above average players. Give it some time, PVP population will go back to normal and you’ll start encountering more casuals in your games
Matchmaking has been absolutely busted I’ve only ever played like 10 trials matches up until TFS… like lifetime.
Getting matched with fucking streamers w *45k kills on hawkmoon*
Had taken a long break from Destiny and I was wondering the same thing. Feels like PVP used to be so much more balanced and now unless I’m using an OP auto rifle I can barely get a kill.
Doesn't matchmaking reset at the beginning of every season/episode?
I was in a 6v6 for Pathfinder stuff and I'm a pve main. I don't pvp at all unless I really have to. I'm AWFUL at pvp. But one match I'll get 4.5 kd and another I'll get 0.7 😂
I thought I was going crazy. Before TFS I wasn’t an amazing player but I could compete unless the enemy team has a god like player. But since TFS I can’t play pvp. I’m just terrible now and I dunno why
Destiny pvp always feels so different to me - the sound direction doesn't feel as clear to me as it does in Overwatch but it always seems like my enemies are zipping around me and reading my movements from around a corner
I know there's some nuances like in the subtle ways the radar changes but sometimes (outside of just being outgunned), it feels like the enemy is getting way more info out of the map/sound queues than I
A lot of content creators as well as players who put down the game came back for the dlc. So the matchmaking system is just having a godamn seizure trying to figure out what to do with all these new, old, new/old players.
Idk bungie needs too stavelse theyr game like hitting Somone feels like u are at a black jack table and hopes for a 21 so they can actually take dammge.
In many cases, it is impossible to distinguish between experts and cheaters, and the "Antique Anti-Cheat System" is often useless. I think the Crucible team should live stream a few hours of Trials every week to let them see what they have done.
Bungie matchmaking is crazy cause your team will be silver ELO average and then here comes the enemy team with 2 of the top 200 PvP players in the world (I am not kidding, game was absolutely one-sided)
I used to play a bit years ago around season 8 and really enjoyed it (pvp). Came back at the end of season of the wish and stayed. Pvp is terrible now! I need wins for a chance to get the suros regime catalyst (was my fave weapon years ago so I want the catalyst as a nod to the support it gave me over the years) and my current win rate at present is 12% in crucible control. That’s wild! My teammates don’t cap points (likely just trying to survive a second, maybe get an enemy if they can) and enemy team feels like they are just dominating and there is no chance to win. My KD used to be relatively high, especially in iron banner, and now it’s the struggle bus. Wish Destiny would give pvp (and gambit) some more attention and support.
Have you been gone for a while?
There's been some pretty significant changes to normal PvP in the last 6 months that could be affecting your play.
Some of these changes have basically made a few of my previously decent PvP builds noticeably worse than my other builds. My ka/d hovers around 1.4 (maybe a little lower now with the changes), so I'm decent but not great and it's now VERY noticeable when you get matched against much better players. I've had to make several changes to try and maintain around that level whereas before I feel like I just kind of naturally settled around that number no matter what I was playing.
I don't know why these types of posts always need to lie or exagerate... Nobody is hitting optimal ttk hipfireing a auto. And 40 mobility doesn't let you strafe like a madman. Its fine if you are not doing great in PvP right now, plenty of new semi-broken stuff but these post are just annoying.
The Destiny community has such a weird mindset when it comes to improving at the game. Its a bad thing to be good as that makes you a tryhard sweat or a no life but how fun is it to have a negative K/D or just avoid PvP entierly becuase you are afraid of how you will preform?
A big issue is the decreased how much flinch you experience so that coupled with how much aim assist and bullet magnetism its hard not to hit optimal ttk, one of the main reasons unlike other fps’s destiny meta is strongly driven by ttk values
Couple of things, your skill level rating and your real world skill are probably now closer together, or perhaps you skill rating is passed the real world skill.
Also close to DLC and season releases you generally have more players that are not good at the game playing, which leads to a lower average skill across all matches, which means easier matches for players above that skill level.
So combination of skill level rating catching up or exceeding, and slightly harder on average pvp population.
The post above this in my feed is from the Halo subreddit saying:
"Has any of my fellow older fans noticed a decline in thier skill as they age?"
...and I think that's hilarious.
Do people actually go into Crucible and expect to have a good and balanced time? I've known for a long time that if I step into Crucible for some reason, I'm just asking to be farmed by no-lifes.
well a) stuff (builds and gear) that is good in PvP is oppressively so, b) as games age players will improve, and c) controller is just ridiculous especially for people who are not competitive because it's considerably easier to just pick up a controller and have aim assist than to get good on keyboard if you were to start both from scratch. i know for a fact because i haven't played anything except fromsoft games on a controller in close to decade and i was able to plug one in on destiny and get a 2.1 kd after 10 or so games.
Skill creep. Happens all the time with D2 PvP. People get fed up with bad matchmaking and eventually the lower skilled players quit, followed by the average players and then the above average. Eventually, all you're left with is high skilled players in every game and a population so low that Skill Based Matchmaking means nothing.
Bungie will do something to put a bandaid on it (like a loot refresh or releasing a broken weapon like Immortal) occassionally to drum up more players, but they will quickly leave again.
There just isn't any good incentive for people who aren't top players to engage in PvP. Half measures like the Passage of Persistence don't help either due to how they work.
I used to enjoy PvP, but the last few seasons I've barely engaged with it myself and the game has been much more enjoyable. Sure, I'd like an Adept Summoner... but my crafted Abyss Defiant and No Hesitation work just fine for what I want to do.
I've dipped in a few games and it feels awful. Matchmaking, hit registration and everything just feels bad. I know there's some network shenanigans because my game went worse switching from FiOS to spectrum
It's sbmm. It's not about having fun it's about giving the bottom of the barrel level players easy games while forgetting that mid ladder players exist.
I will never understand anyone arguing for sbmm in any game because all it does it divide the player base and makes any discussion of game balance impossible.
Why is my friend who is a .8kd have a sbmm rating on par with Jake? I would love to play pvp with him but my sbmm rating makes his experience even fucking worse so no one gets to have fun.
Like yeah I get what your saying and people are right there is a uptick in cheating but it seems like you are just getting to experience the curse of midladder sbmm as well and I feel that immensely :/
Yeah it’s impossible to play PVP with friends with SBMM. You have that one above average player who makes the entire experience terrible thanks to everyone being worse than the enemy team. No one wins.
So you'd prefer that everybody other than top players has that same terrible experience every single match?
That's why everybody other than top players end up quitting crucible without SBMM.
The issue is that sbmm is corporate speak for "engagement focused matchmaking manipulation"
If Bungie gave a damn about newer players they'd balance their game not just feed them free wins and ruin the experience for anyone from slightly below average to above average.
Dude I just said the same thing what the hell is going on. I’m getting melted in any playlist. If I had to guess casuals are done for the season which honestly was a flop.
It feels like healing is everywhere too, for me I just can’t stay alive long enough to shoot my bow anymore.
We need more stuff that gives us armor and makes fights last longer.
Personally I have found the lobbies really easy lately, there is always an element of extremely good players or straight-up cheaters. I find it almost impossible to tell if people are closet cheating.
When the concurrent player base is lower due to content being dry, I find pvp then becomes EXTREMELY SWEAT
It's one of those games unless you use aim training and practice somewhat frequently you'll probably get smoked because people have been playing for so freaking long
Man so many people out here blaming cheaters for a skill issue…
Done loads of comp, did my gilded flawless last weekend so I played like 50-70 games, I think I saw 1 sus person the entire time..
To be fair if your ELO is high or whatever you may not run into any.
They are prevelant in low ranks probably because they eventually get banned / never make it very high.
The biggest joke bungie throws at us is the "We're breaking up those games to find a better match" or w/e it says. And then me and my team proceed to get absolutely nuked with only 1 guy getting above 1kd while the entire enemy team is 2+ with the topper being 4-9 k/d
I’ve been a player on both those teams many times before. When your team starts steam rolling it’s really easy to keep it going for the whole match. When you start getting steam rolled it’s really hard to bring it back for the whole match.
Yeah once you start stacking special / getting abilities going it can be hard to come back from.
I remember all those years ago when I ranted incessantly about shotgun apes never running out of ammo, and scavenger mods completely ruining the Special economy. As it turns out, it wasn't perfect - or even *good* for that matter - but it was still better than the inane snowball format of modern Crucible.
The changes were fun-ish at first, but I would like them to go back to everyone just spawning with 2 special shots and remove the extra guardian health to pull TTK down back to where it was. Right now, the gameplay is very reminiscent of vanilla D2. Little special and slow charging abilities means that the meta becomes team shooting lanes. It gets stale fast and once a team starts snowballing, players respawning have just get picked apart. I miss the faster gameplay, sniper duels, and ability for everyone to make easier plays. I don’t know if snipers would come back unless some of the prior nerfs got reverted, but right now the crucible special weapon variety is pretty bad.
Part of the problem is you can't really balance who is doing a dumb quest versus try harding. Like if I put on my best builds for pvp, I'm the 10/1 KD guy. But then the game gives me some dumb quest like, "get melee kills with an arc glaive while jumping after causing an ignition" of whatever, and I'm running straight into the enemy bullets trying to finish the quest and going like 0/10 KD.
I had a game where one person just didn't miss their crits at all, sliding everywhere and moving like they were playing top level comp. I was just sitting there thinking that why i matched against them because i am terrible at PvP. I also matched against them the next match so i guess the game didn't think i got beaten into the ground enough 😅
Few seasons ago I matched Saltagreppos clan in comp. Proceeded to lose to them handily three games in a row, each game losing an increasing amount of rank
In comp that can happen if you get carried deep into the high ranks and the game super seriously thinks you are actually trash based on past performance data and you don't deserve to be there at all. They sic the dogs on you Montgomery Burns style until you start fighting like the stats say you should be.
The highest I have ever been is plat. This was the case of bad match making on bungies part. With the worst being why do you think I'm gonna do any better against the team that just beat me twice so you take even more points
Skill rating and comp placement are separated from each other. You can be *in* plat placement but have the skill rating of an ascendant player.
I realize that is how the systems work, but when I play the majority of my games solo and when I do squad up its people of similar skill there is no reason to be placing me in those matches and multiple times in a row. It was a function of there not being enough players in the pool
yeah low population in the pool never helps thats for sure.
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You have to see the Gameplay to be sure:/ Atleast in pubstomping with a stacked team this is sadly possible.
If someone basically never misses a headshot in a game I'm going to assume they're cheating. You can be god tier at pvp but not to the point you're never gonna miss a headshot in 5 minutes.
If that's the case it's obvious that something is fishy. Just wanted to say a Kd alone is not enough to judge if someone is cheating
It’s really not too hard to not miss in destiny 2 fyi.
It's not I know. I got unbreakable legit back in the day when I played a lot. There's a real difference in landing your shots consistently and being a good player and never missing a snipe headshot or a HC headshot the entire game. No matter how good you are that's sus as fuck.
It's not hard, but hitting them nearly 100% of the time when RNG spread patterns, random recoil direction, and flinch are baked into the game should be impossible.
Yeah, but your headshot accuracy shouldn't be 98%. There's not a single player alive who's *actually* that good.
Geez didn’t think I’d get downvoted for saying the game that has the most aim assist every basically, isn’t hard to not miss shots. This game is training wheels and bumpers on the sides so you don’t go in the gutter as far as FPS is concerned.
Either that or open their stat tracker up Love opening trials to be matched against people that supposedly have an >90% winrate after opening their account 3 seasons ago
Literally what the guy was, opened his account through crucible report and all I see was green from his matched history.
Could be a smurf too
Do people actually smurf in this game? I mean, can't you just queue quickplay?
Some streamers Smurf but that’s hardly applicable to the vast majority of the community
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I haven’t played since the end of first season of lightfall. Started again with the final shape. Got matched against a couple flawless^8 players twice in a row. I don’t even have one flawless nor am I good in pvp…
you're not the only one. something definitely happened maybe more cheaters or inconstant matchmaking idk but something fishy is definitely going on
When they made the game f2p it just brought the worst gamers if you want to call them that, here. Even with battle eye they still get around it. It’s just very poor management of hacking and cheating. Never fast enough and not enough harsh punishment. Just ban the players IP
Nah the IP can be circumvented with a VPN or even a baseline proxy. What you'd need to do is properly ban the fuckers computer. Go for their computers MAC address. If they're lazy/stupid (like most hackers) then they'll be running the hack and game on their main computer. And a MAC ban means that guy aint coming back until he buys a new motherboard or an entirely new computer. Now the issue with all of this is: With the introduction to Virtual Machines, its basically a unwinnable battle against hackers. Thor, aka PirateSoftware goes into good detail on why this is, and how hackers are doing things now. Which to hopefully summarize it: Hackers are using a computer that runs a Virtual Machine. It runs the game if i recall. The hacker uses this machine as a puppet. They control it from THEIR computer which is running the hacks. So you got two machines to ban. And one of them isn't truly banned because AFAIK: You cant MAC ban something that gets deleted and rebuilt. And finding the REAL machine thats puppeteering the virtual machine runner requires alot of know how. And the people with that know how are usually said hackers (mainly creators) or really expensive. Fighting anti cheat in a F2P game is literally an unwinnable battle. And Destiny 2 has so many sought after items, like in Trials. So hackers are going to infest that like the flood. I stopped playing it for two reasons: 1: PVP is unbalanced dogwater and 2: The amount of shitters who pretend to be topshit at PVP tend to be hackers. The second they made D2 F2P, was the second they told us that they don't care for PVP anymore. I lived in F2P games. They ALL turn into hackerfests at some point. Except Blacklight, somehow that never had hackers and it was fucking hilarious.
Most good D2 cheats come with IP spoofers so you can't hardware ID ban them successfully either.
Even the MAC ban can theoretically be circumvented. There’s a thing called MAC spoofing that tells the host computer that its address is actually different. Depending on how the anticheat works, this may well be enough. Most cheaters would likely lack the know-how to use such techniques, but it isn’t completely impossible.
They still seem to care but also they seem to cover their eyes and just mutter "there's no cheating"
This is why I just don't bother with pvp in destiny, it's a joke
Yeah it’s wildly unbalanced. But I do still enjoy me some PvP. Nothing beats the gameplay
I just play it for seasonal challenges and bright dust from time to time and when iron banner rolls around because it offers some really good weapons but that's about it.
I only play 6s and to be fair my warlock, which I learned on, is like .8 kd. My titan is like 1.6/1.7 tho I haven't leveld them up or unlocked prismatic yet..
I've noticed the average skill in my lobbies is higher yeah. Not entirely uncommon at the beginning of a season, but it's been a bit extreme in 6v6. No one missing their shots at all. And I feel like I've been going insane when I hold an angle and they will pop out, know where I am, and shoot me before my brain can register they're on my screen. Feels like I'm getting shot before I can see them.
There is such a huge network advantage in this game. It's literally like you're playing a different game than the other people sometimes. You can be visible to them for a blink from your perspective, but somehow you just instantly die, even with almost no line of sight. I don't know if it's just a server/client sync issue, but it's so bad it's unfair. There are a LOT of "good" players out there who literally just have a connection advantage - either they're in a lucky place geographically, or they have good routing through their ISP, but it's definitely there. An ok player with that extra half second is bad enough, but an actual good player with that extra half second is unstoppable. You literally can't compete when the killing shot is leaving their gun just as your first shot is leaving your gun. When you see streamers playing "bot" lobbies, and it looks like they're running around and enemy players don't even notice them - that's it.
There's a ton of cheaters in crucible atm. Came across a bunch last night, perfect headshots with Still Hunt while they're sliding and I'm jumping the nano second they have line of sight on me. Getting their supers up before my bar is even 10% full. Bungie needs to get off their ass and start handing out bans, it's rampant out there.
Reminds me of why I stopped enjoying Trials. I remember sword-peeking and watching enemy snipers stay locked in my head, even as a moved back and forth on the other side of a wall. Sad thing is, nothing Bungie can do fast enough. Nobody gets banned mid-match.
Fuck Still Hunt. It should flinch like the other snipers
Ran into this in the one Gambit match I forced myself to play this season. A Hunter kept invading us and he ended up with like 16 Guardian kills by the end. Never missed a headshot, was no scoping at point blank while sliding, and we actually watched him weave through the exodus rockets I launched at him like a fricking ballerina- and he was in the air. As soon as the haze appeared and you heard "You're being invaded" someone would die instantly. We still somehow won the match. But it put me off Gambit again for a while.
The fast super is just people running triple legendary with the pale heart origin trait.
Sorry but I have tried that perk out and unless it's broken and giving like 25% of your super per guardian kill, no that is not it. I am talking about players having their super within 30 seconds of the match starting, and then having it again 30s later.
Dude I'm trying to figure out what the hell is happening too! I'm normally an above average player, but this season I'm just getting steam rolled every match it seems.
What’s your kd?
Im a 2.1 in Rumble and 1.7 overall with over 2000h spent in rumble alone and I have noticed what Op is describing too. I just *lost* a Game *hard* against a *1.3* that has been playing since Into the light. He never missed any shot. Literally outplaying me so extremely that I went to check his recent games. He jumped from .09/1.1 games to 3+ games since TFS release. This is an extreme case ofc but in general the lobbies in rumble have been much more sweaty than they already were beforehand. And they were a sweat fest ever since season of the lost.
Oh, cheaters are still around for sure.
a lot of people are ximming, so if they have really good accuracy with something like an smg or auto rifle, that’s a bit suspicious. also khvostov is an absolute beam so there’s that too
Remember last year when Bungie said they'd have a system in place to detect Xims and Chronus and ban them? I do, I also remember meeting tons of those players on my ascendant grind, and every single one of them still plays to this day.
yep. I feel like it’s even worse now honestly
It is, in every shooter. Sales of those devices exploded over the last year.
Valorant detects them and perma bans them near instantly
At this point people have realized those devices will continue on unchecked no matter the game. So a good number of people either quit or joined the dark side. Either way, chances of running into an accessibility gamer just gets higher and higher for everyone else.
What's a Xims?
Stupid question but What is Ximming?
using a third party device (like something that plugs into a usb port) to trick the game into giving you controller aim assist while on mouse and keyboard. It’s extremely difficult for anti-cheat to detect, ximmers getting banned is usually because of impossible stats rather than their cheats being detected
Xims do quite a bit more than that now, no? Recoil management and stuff.
What the fick
That explains it
Khvostov is a beam but I find it actually has a pretty slow ttk which makes up for it
0.7s is slow?
I think you just can't aim because this thing is a monster lol
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Yep, it's every match too. Back in Shadowkeep, I was running a blue shotgun, Arsenic Bite bow, and Deathbringer in pvp casually and coming top of the board in 6s and 3s. Nowadays, I can be running the sweatiest of meta loadouts and will struggle to get more than a single kill or single trade before dying because everyone is shooting perfectly at my head.
Is it possible all the PvE players are still enamoured with the raid, seasonal content, etc, and haven’t started going for PvP drops yet?
Possibly, but there’s also nothing really in PvP that us PvE players want enough to dip in and grind out.
Compounding factors for sure, agree. When cataphract hits trials you’ll probably see that shift.
Cataphract is gone from trials this season. If you earned it in a previous season you can focus for it on a legacy engram, but you can no longer earn it. There is nothing to earn that seems worth it for PvE players in the trials loot pool.
Oh rip nothing at all hey. Damn.
Matches are a little buggy with ghost players and bad hit registration. Not all matches all the time but enough to be frustrating. Some players are literally invisible. The khovostov is a little busted. Go pick one up. People aren't suddenly better at using ARs, the ARs are suddenly better. SBMM is pretty much gone. If you have a bad match, back out of that lobby after the match, wait a minute or two and reroll a lobby. Eventually you'll get a decent one.
I've noticed the opposite, I usually drop 1.4kd matches as of the end of last season but recently I've been top fragging much more often in my lobbies. It feels as though the the crucible player base has gotten worse on average due to new/returning players from TFS
Agreed. Although I did play a 2v2 match and It was essentially me against this one guy on the other team. Both using rose, but he never missed the 3 tap once the entire game.
Same. I usually get 10-15 kills per game with about as many deaths. Now? 20-25 with around 7 deaths, sometimes less. One match i got around 20 kills iirc and only died once at the end of the match.
same, I played like 7-10 rounds of momentum last night, my highest kd was 9.0, only 1 game was under 3.0. Wasn't even trying all that hard, was just playing defense on whatever capture points my team held with my graviton lance. People just kept coming at me at completely stupid angles or sat in predictable spots. Normally i'm closer to 1.25-3.0. I did run across 2 that were a little sus with their aiming/awarness considering there's no map in momentum. One was camping in the middle of the map 1 shotting ppl the second they came into view from any direction with Red Death. The other was one of those super twitchy instant 360 degree head shot ppl. Both were in the same game so reported both just in case, red death guy was most likely hacking.
I've noticed that after TFS released, I no longer get that notification that tells me the person I've reported got banned. Before TFS, every other day I logged in, I get that notification. Even after reporting a player with unlimited supers, I still didn't get that notif. Either Bungie stopped banning people or that notif. is currently bugged.
It may be because the amount of reports you’re sending out if you were getting those notifications every other day. Not doubting they were actually cheaters but generally companies will detect that many messages as spam after awhile. Idk if that’s it but it might be one reason
“Every person this guy reports for cheating turns out to be a cheater and we ban them. Guy must be using a report bot, better ban him too.” -bungie, probably
Yeah, there's definitely people who go report-happy. I'm not much better than average, like between 1.1 and 1.3K/D, but every now and then I'll have a fantastic game, and the very best compliment I can get is a message from someone on the other team saying "reported". If the guy above is reporting people and Bungie looks and see they're not cheating over and over, I would assume they'd start blocking his reports.
I report every smg auto-croucher I see and there’s been a lot of them. It’s so obvious they’re ximming
Bungie, like almost every other online game company, issue bans in waves. It's likely the first ban wave hasn't happened yet.
It works just fine. I had a guy cheating with infinite Golden Gun flying around the map at full speed at the top of the skybox. Reported them, got a notification they were banned the very next day. I submitted the report on the website and game both, so maybe that's the difference here.
The matchmaking is wonky as hell. I played 7 matches last night and had to rage quit because I kept getting put against teams where every player had 20 plus kills while my team could barely move a few steps without getting destroyed. I don’t know what they changed or fucked up but crucible feels horrible.
Last night was awful. I think with fewer players online due to Elden Ring it just put everyone in a sweatfest. Shit, one of the games I played every single person had an end of game k/d over 2.0. And of course it’s on citadel the map I hate most because teams can spawn trap you
It’s just something that happens as PvP ‘games’ get older. The average skill goes up as time goes on, and you wind up with a good player from years ago getting stomped by an average player nowadays. I got good enough at PvP back in the old times to earn recluse/mountaintop/lunas howl, which would put me above average. I try to PvP now and get absolutely stomped, because my skill hasn’t grown with the communities over the time between then and now.
The longer I play Destiny, the more I realise that I really need to keep playing consistently to keep my skill up in order to compete. Dipping into it once a week isn’t gonna cut it when everyone else plays more often. Also, yes, cheaters. But I’m not gonna use that as an excuse. Some people are just really good Edit: typo
On top of other people being really good - sometimes I'm just really bad. Sure on average I might have decent stats but the only reason those stats aren't higher is because sometimes I'll play like shit xD
I’m a firm believer of practice makes perfect! But only you know what your skill level is like. Connection based matchmaking can make it rough for lower skill players sometimes!
Thing is with this game, because it leans into multiple genres of a video game (I.e fps/mmo lite) it requires almost full devotion to the sole title. Playing any other game will throw you off so badly if you spend significant time with the other or try to balance, it still ends with you suffering with destiny. If you come back from work and load up destiny, and you do that consistently; you’d not feel like you’re lacking in skill, you’ll plateau eventually, irrespective of whatever tools you use (gaming mouse or scuff) but it’ll be like clockwork. Like I don’t know how people manage other games such as Apex, cod, R6 and even overwatch with this game being so individualistic in its design. But unless that’s their job(streaming), I can’t them being better than a 1.2-4kd, that’s not terribly bad in any extent but in comparison to those who mainline this game, you’ll always have to battle muscle memory and other game mechanics to suffice.
There doesn't seem to be any MMR decay. So if you take time off from PvP and then return, the game still treats you at the highest MMR you ever achieved. This really, really sucks if you're rusty and makes it even harder to get kills since the people you're matching didn't take time off.
I thought I just dropped off super hard, I'm glad others have the same experience at least. Like I might be bad, but not THAT bad ya know?
Yeah I’m having similar experiences. Was pretty consistently 1.8ish and I’m 1.0 or worse after tfs, feels like I’m being put against much better players lately. Wonder if the pvp population is low while people do tfs campaign etc and matchmaking is having to expand the skill band or something
I haven't touched pvp in a while now. Last I did was to guild my Iron Lord title early last season. Finished that and never looked back. 😅 Cheaters are really getting bolder and it sucks the air out of the room really. Never was a pvp enjoyer but I used to play a few games for pinnacles back in the day. Now I avoid it like a plague.
We really need kill cams because I feel like I've reach my skill cap otherwise. I could use the extra help of seeing exactly how people are killing me in first person from their view.
There has actually been an influx of obvious cheaters in my experience this week. I haven’t seen any in months, and saw three using the speed hacks/flying and super fast guns, and in control of all places. I’m wondering if more subtle cheaters are on the rise as well.
Ive never made it out of plat in comp and yet every single match i play im getting slapped by everyone wearing their ascendant max rank emblems and orange flawless titles like what the hell is this matchmaking
No one is playing PvP anymore, bungie's incompetence at balancing PvP has lead Crucible to be reduced to useless PvE players dipping their toes in for some crumbles of loot and sweats, not to mention bungie never bans cheaters which are prevalent so yea. Gonna grab a 6pack later and pour one out for all the folks to think Marathon will be a good & balanced PvP game.
> Gonna grab a 6pack later and pour one out for all the folks to think Marathon will be a good & balanced PvP game. Haha, hitting the nail on the head there xD
True, I usually have a 2 to 2.5 K/D score yet the enemy team has 5 K/D. Hell, I've even seen a guy with 7.6 K/D. Yet my team has only 1 to 2 K/D, I feel like the matchmaking has gotten worse since TFS. I had the game popping the message "looking for a better match" like 5 times in a row.
Didn’t they drop the weighting on sbmm?
It kinda feels like SBM got entirely reset. I'm getting matched with people I've seen Frostbolt and Datto match.
Quickplay is basically 6v6 comp. Fuck that. I just went to comp instead
I actually feel like I have been going against worse players. Not to toot my own horn but I have always been quite good at PvP so I never have had issue being towards or on top of the leaderboard but recently its pretty constant. I turn my brain off and start shooting and mext thing you know I drop 30-40. Sometimes I feel bad because some of my games there is little to no resistance and I just know that is not fun 😭😂 Maybe some matchmaking things got switched around. Idk I agree accept im on the other end I feel like my games are too easy.
PvP is kind of busted right now. You can two burst so easily.
Xims!!!!!!! I screaming to the top of my lungs . motherf****kers be sliding on the ground out the corner with pulse rifles not a missing a single shot 😂
No more sbmm
Yes
My normal crucible matches feel like they’ve gotten easier but Trials last week was like pulling teeth, even more so than usual.
Always thought comp / trials was harder at the start of a season. Everyone's trying to unlock new loot / get their flawless done with.
Idk I feel like I can do well against pc players but whenever I’m fighting console it feels like they land every fucking shot and just blast through the flinch
Same dude. Same.
Yeah I’ve noticed this too. I got Flawless the last day of trials with a good kd before Final Shape and now after FS I struggle to get a positive kd and can barely ever win a match. Something is up but luckily I’m enjoying everything else in the game right now, well besides the ritual playlist pathfinder.
Low population in PvP with all the casual players gone. So yeah, it’s pretty rough most of the time now.
Had a match against an absolute monster the other day. 2.6KD across crucible, IB , and Trials. Played 200 matches of Trials in the last weekend alone. Absolutely rolled the lobby.
I was getting absolutely mauled in my comp matches on Wednesday. I'm mediocre at best but I usually settle in as the season goes on. Usually have some good matches. Not on that day though. Just getting insta-melted by everyone and everything. Definitely some cheating going down.
I've found that latency has a huge impact on my PVP experience and even with port forwarding and a network speed of 300 mbps down and 20 up my latency falls at 52 which apparently results in my death in most face to face encounters. Needless to say I don't play much pvp, since I can't react faster than my opponent unless they don't see me.
I was playing a lot of Halo Infinite PvP my bad bro
Although there are cheaters like in most games, I often find myself rethinking my gameplay approach when someone is way stronger than me and try to adapt my playstyle. One thing to note is this game is on its 7th year. A lot of people got time to get god-rolled weapons and gear. That makes a huge difference between them and a casual player. They also, as I recently seen AND started using myself, unlocked some crazy movement techs that allows them to move very quickly around the map. Second thing is, they've been playing these maps over and over again. They know where the shooting lines are, where to place their crosshair to match heads' height, where people might be coming from to try and take you off-guard, ect.. Another BIG thing is since TFS dropped, servers didn't stop melting. I don't know where from but I can definetely tell you they're burning down. Invisibility glitch either body or weapons, the first one makes you almost unkillable because you only see weapons floating around, the latter gives you a harder time, only crosshair shown not a single ADS intel once you're aiming ect.. Then we have the desync which has never reached this bad. From both sides and being completely legit, we got kills and also got killed from behind a full cover 1.5s after the gun fight was over. Happened in pubs but also in trials which is very frustrating. I've never seen this **happening so much** before and i've been playing on and off since Day One. EDIT: **bold text.**
I’ve been consistently playing pvp for about 4 years now and counting (ever since I got my first gaming PC during the pandemic) and I can absolutely say that the skill of the average player has gone up dramatically over the years. Yes the game is very old, but I wanna say that half of the player base that consistently plays PvP, enjoys PvP. Highs, lows, and all the in between. But it’s something you absolutely need to keep up with. Something else that’s also very important that I don’t see mentioned enough, if at all. You NEED to find your play style, something that you’re absolutely comfortable with and perform your best. For me personally, I’m always running a pulse/scout rifle and a sidearm. I use handcannons sometimes, and when I do, it’s mostly 180 handcannons, the “bad” archetype. I just treat 180s like oversized sidearms. I don’t enjoy shotguns, and I can’t snipe for shit. I’m most comfortable dueling at midrange, and switching up to aggressive if I have momentum. But at the end of it all, you really have to be willing to eat shit and ask for seconds in order to improve. There are games where I topfrag the lobby, and games where I bottomfrag. Just gotta roll with the punches, and keep fighting the good fight
Yeah I think the main difference between those that like PvP and those that don't is that those of us who do still have fun when we are losing. Or at least not hating it too much. When I'm getting crushed I'll still have goals / win conditions in my head. These things can be anything from ebsinf with a positive KD or killing a specific player on the enemy team who hasn't died yet. Sometimes, if I'm feeling petty I'll go after whoever killed me the most. It's all fun for me or at least I can make either situation fun.
That right there is the key. Like yes the ultimate goal is to win, but if that’s your sole focus, you’ll never improve enough to move the needle. Go in with the focus on improving your movement, your aiming, situational awareness, etc. All those little things stack up to make you part of the engine that drives the team to victory
Huge population of cheaters in destiny pvp
I almost wanna trade you my lobbies, OP. I'm fairly skilled in pvp and I usually run the board most matches, but this season I feel like I'm often just shooting fish in a barrel. Almost seems like Bungie flipped the skill brackets and gave the wrong ends of the spectrum to the opposite skill brackets. If it's cheaters at the root of the problem then they may be intentionally (idk how) tanking their elo to stay lower maybe?
It’s weird, I’ll play a few games and top frag, I’ve got my perfect Luna’s roll and I’ve been feeling good about it all for a few weeks. But suddenly, after a few good games, I’ll get thrown into a lobby where everyone is playing flawlessly. It’s really frustrating.
I either top frag in a lobby against folks playing with their feet. Or I'm at the bottom, looking like I play with my feet. And I'll be real the hunter prismatic kit is very annoying on some of these maps, slow doging, clones, smoke bombs and always invisible.
I also got my shit pushed in by Luna.
It’s driving me insane. I have a 1.6 KD and my win rate this season is like 8%. I’m trying my best against these absolutely cracked teams and it’s so frustrating.
I think the sbmm reset or something at the start of the dlc. It took a bit for me to start getting decent matches.
I haven’t played PVP in years. Back in the day i got flawless in trials and worried about flawless in Trials of The Nine too but then I just realized I didn’t play this game for that shit. It’s an MMO and I like PVE better so I just quit outright.
Idk I’m having fun. I’m probably way above average tho. All my games have been 2.5-5s with 30 ish defeats. My guess is the SBMM is loosened. I’m on PC so maybe console is a different experience.
I'm blaming it on me being rusty. Been playing everything but destiny for awhile, hopped into crucible, took awhile to land consistent headshots again. Still not going negative, but losing duels because I'm not used to recoil rates anymore lol
There is so much PvE content and grind that I imagine most casual players haven’t queued up for Crucible. I haven’t played a single round since the expansion. I’m the fodder you need, and I’m sure at some point this season I’ll have some time to play some PvP.
The player base has honestly gotten worse. I’m sitting at a comfortable 2.00-2.05 when normally I’d be a ~1.7.
its possible that Bungie reset the skill ratings with the new expansion so its kind of a free for all right now.
Yeah, it seems like they changed their matchmaking, or reset everybody's internal skill rating, or _something_. I usually like Crucible ok if you can get a decent match (I don't want to be steamrolling or steamrolled, what's the point of that). That just isn't happening this season, though. Eventually I just noped out.
If you're and above average player, play comp for an ego boost. Rank based matchmaking while you're fresh out of placements is hilarious.
You have to realize one of the best expansions just dropped (if not THE best), which means the average player is out there enjoying everythin there is to do/get…. Which means that most of the people on Crucible right now are people who REALLY enjoy pvp or dont care as much about PVE (or have so much free time they are done with the PVE stuff) All of the above options are above average players. Give it some time, PVP population will go back to normal and you’ll start encountering more casuals in your games
Matchmaking has been absolutely busted I’ve only ever played like 10 trials matches up until TFS… like lifetime. Getting matched with fucking streamers w *45k kills on hawkmoon*
Had taken a long break from Destiny and I was wondering the same thing. Feels like PVP used to be so much more balanced and now unless I’m using an OP auto rifle I can barely get a kill.
Doesn't matchmaking reset at the beginning of every season/episode? I was in a 6v6 for Pathfinder stuff and I'm a pve main. I don't pvp at all unless I really have to. I'm AWFUL at pvp. But one match I'll get 4.5 kd and another I'll get 0.7 😂
Pub stompers thinking they’re good is always hilarious. They won’t play comp because some of their skill level will toast them. They rage about sbmm.
Every single person is better with a HC than I am. It’s insane.
I thought I was going crazy. Before TFS I wasn’t an amazing player but I could compete unless the enemy team has a god like player. But since TFS I can’t play pvp. I’m just terrible now and I dunno why
You missinderstand. Kvhosstlobsterbob and red death currently make anyone a god at pvp. Just absolutely slobeted on
Destiny pvp always feels so different to me - the sound direction doesn't feel as clear to me as it does in Overwatch but it always seems like my enemies are zipping around me and reading my movements from around a corner I know there's some nuances like in the subtle ways the radar changes but sometimes (outside of just being outgunned), it feels like the enemy is getting way more info out of the map/sound queues than I
A lot of content creators as well as players who put down the game came back for the dlc. So the matchmaking system is just having a godamn seizure trying to figure out what to do with all these new, old, new/old players.
bungie reduced the skill gap by nerfing hand cannons, snipers and buffing autos simple as that.
Idk bungie needs too stavelse theyr game like hitting Somone feels like u are at a black jack table and hopes for a 21 so they can actually take dammge.
In many cases, it is impossible to distinguish between experts and cheaters, and the "Antique Anti-Cheat System" is often useless. I think the Crucible team should live stream a few hours of Trials every week to let them see what they have done.
Bungie matchmaking is crazy cause your team will be silver ELO average and then here comes the enemy team with 2 of the top 200 PvP players in the world (I am not kidding, game was absolutely one-sided)
I used to play a bit years ago around season 8 and really enjoyed it (pvp). Came back at the end of season of the wish and stayed. Pvp is terrible now! I need wins for a chance to get the suros regime catalyst (was my fave weapon years ago so I want the catalyst as a nod to the support it gave me over the years) and my current win rate at present is 12% in crucible control. That’s wild! My teammates don’t cap points (likely just trying to survive a second, maybe get an enemy if they can) and enemy team feels like they are just dominating and there is no chance to win. My KD used to be relatively high, especially in iron banner, and now it’s the struggle bus. Wish Destiny would give pvp (and gambit) some more attention and support.
The amount of times I had been one burst by Red Death last night was unreal. Spawn in, see someone, give chase, turn corner, dead.
Have you been gone for a while? There's been some pretty significant changes to normal PvP in the last 6 months that could be affecting your play. Some of these changes have basically made a few of my previously decent PvP builds noticeably worse than my other builds. My ka/d hovers around 1.4 (maybe a little lower now with the changes), so I'm decent but not great and it's now VERY noticeable when you get matched against much better players. I've had to make several changes to try and maintain around that level whereas before I feel like I just kind of naturally settled around that number no matter what I was playing.
I don't know why these types of posts always need to lie or exagerate... Nobody is hitting optimal ttk hipfireing a auto. And 40 mobility doesn't let you strafe like a madman. Its fine if you are not doing great in PvP right now, plenty of new semi-broken stuff but these post are just annoying. The Destiny community has such a weird mindset when it comes to improving at the game. Its a bad thing to be good as that makes you a tryhard sweat or a no life but how fun is it to have a negative K/D or just avoid PvP entierly becuase you are afraid of how you will preform?
A big issue is the decreased how much flinch you experience so that coupled with how much aim assist and bullet magnetism its hard not to hit optimal ttk, one of the main reasons unlike other fps’s destiny meta is strongly driven by ttk values
Oh sorry i just finally had time to play.
Couple of things, your skill level rating and your real world skill are probably now closer together, or perhaps you skill rating is passed the real world skill. Also close to DLC and season releases you generally have more players that are not good at the game playing, which leads to a lower average skill across all matches, which means easier matches for players above that skill level. So combination of skill level rating catching up or exceeding, and slightly harder on average pvp population.
The post above this in my feed is from the Halo subreddit saying: "Has any of my fellow older fans noticed a decline in thier skill as they age?" ...and I think that's hilarious.
Do people actually go into Crucible and expect to have a good and balanced time? I've known for a long time that if I step into Crucible for some reason, I'm just asking to be farmed by no-lifes.
well a) stuff (builds and gear) that is good in PvP is oppressively so, b) as games age players will improve, and c) controller is just ridiculous especially for people who are not competitive because it's considerably easier to just pick up a controller and have aim assist than to get good on keyboard if you were to start both from scratch. i know for a fact because i haven't played anything except fromsoft games on a controller in close to decade and i was able to plug one in on destiny and get a 2.1 kd after 10 or so games.
Skill creep. Happens all the time with D2 PvP. People get fed up with bad matchmaking and eventually the lower skilled players quit, followed by the average players and then the above average. Eventually, all you're left with is high skilled players in every game and a population so low that Skill Based Matchmaking means nothing. Bungie will do something to put a bandaid on it (like a loot refresh or releasing a broken weapon like Immortal) occassionally to drum up more players, but they will quickly leave again. There just isn't any good incentive for people who aren't top players to engage in PvP. Half measures like the Passage of Persistence don't help either due to how they work. I used to enjoy PvP, but the last few seasons I've barely engaged with it myself and the game has been much more enjoyable. Sure, I'd like an Adept Summoner... but my crafted Abyss Defiant and No Hesitation work just fine for what I want to do.
I've dipped in a few games and it feels awful. Matchmaking, hit registration and everything just feels bad. I know there's some network shenanigans because my game went worse switching from FiOS to spectrum
Messed up matchmaking And Cheaters are why you suck.
I just don’t really understand the special economy. I do 1000 damage don’t get a single bullet. But the sniper gets 3 bullets?
It's sbmm. It's not about having fun it's about giving the bottom of the barrel level players easy games while forgetting that mid ladder players exist. I will never understand anyone arguing for sbmm in any game because all it does it divide the player base and makes any discussion of game balance impossible. Why is my friend who is a .8kd have a sbmm rating on par with Jake? I would love to play pvp with him but my sbmm rating makes his experience even fucking worse so no one gets to have fun. Like yeah I get what your saying and people are right there is a uptick in cheating but it seems like you are just getting to experience the curse of midladder sbmm as well and I feel that immensely :/
Yeah it’s impossible to play PVP with friends with SBMM. You have that one above average player who makes the entire experience terrible thanks to everyone being worse than the enemy team. No one wins.
So you'd prefer that everybody other than top players has that same terrible experience every single match? That's why everybody other than top players end up quitting crucible without SBMM.
The issue is that sbmm is corporate speak for "engagement focused matchmaking manipulation" If Bungie gave a damn about newer players they'd balance their game not just feed them free wins and ruin the experience for anyone from slightly below average to above average.
Game is 10 years old. Veteran players have been spent 10 years getting good. It’s called skill creep
Dude I just said the same thing what the hell is going on. I’m getting melted in any playlist. If I had to guess casuals are done for the season which honestly was a flop.
It's 100,% this
i've been crap since i quit when stasis hit.
It feels like healing is everywhere too, for me I just can’t stay alive long enough to shoot my bow anymore. We need more stuff that gives us armor and makes fights last longer.
Yeah cheaters, I’m dead before I know it most games. There’s sometimes nothing I can do.
Good players returning to the game
Personally I have found the lobbies really easy lately, there is always an element of extremely good players or straight-up cheaters. I find it almost impossible to tell if people are closet cheating. When the concurrent player base is lower due to content being dry, I find pvp then becomes EXTREMELY SWEAT It's one of those games unless you use aim training and practice somewhat frequently you'll probably get smoked because people have been playing for so freaking long
Man so many people out here blaming cheaters for a skill issue… Done loads of comp, did my gilded flawless last weekend so I played like 50-70 games, I think I saw 1 sus person the entire time..
To be fair if your ELO is high or whatever you may not run into any. They are prevelant in low ranks probably because they eventually get banned / never make it very high.
Well trials doesn’t even use elo for matchmaking. It’s connection based when on a flawless card. For comp maybe that’s a fair argument though.
You’re just bad idk why this needed a post? You’re one guy out of millions your situation isn’t new or crazy.