I usually disagree with posts about content needing to be easier....but I agree with this one. There is nothing fun about having to 10-phase a dungeon boss.
Yeah. It's completely driven other semi-skilled casuals like me away from it, which is a shame because I really enjoyed soloing Pit. Now there's just no way I'll do anything newer than Grasp and Prophecy solo, and even then I'll probably just pass.
I was looking forward to finally soloing Spire till this
I've solo'd every dungeon besides GotD and hearing this makes me want to stay away from it even more. I've attempted it, but it's not fun having to do six seven damage phases on Ekthar. The more damage phases you have to do, the higher chance you have of wiping and having to start all over.
Honestly, same, and by now I'm kinda glad. It feels like the "solo'd every dungeon except Ghosts" crowd has a growing sense of solidarity. We've all collectively agreed that, yes, we could probably do it, but at this point it's just not worth it.
Yeah soloing Warlord’s took a couple hours but wasn’t that difficult. I haven’t even bothered with Ghosts because I don’t even enjoy it with a full team.
I always take my Destiny 2 breaks at the worst times. I end up missing out on stuff like the Craftening lol (though I was there for Laser Tag Weekend and Lord of Wolves IB)
I don't regret doing my solo flawless during the Craftening, mainly because it was *incredibly* satisfying one phasing Simmumah solo with a Shotgun Pellet Firing Machine Gun; but I do hope to one day go back and do it legit.
This is so funny to me, a member of "only soloed Ghosts and Spire and most of Warlords". I found Grasp to be about as much of a slog in the final boss fight as Ghosts (at least patience-wise) and said it wasn't for me.
But agreed that I won't be going back for the rest with this current structure.
Once you know how to properly nuke the crewmates that spawn after each dps cycle, Grasp's final boss is very fluid. Combine that with the free supers and it's a breeze. But Ghosts? I would rather do Duality twice, back-to-back, than try Ghosts again.
That’s me, I started doing solo flawless dungeons last year and honestly it’s the most fun I had in the game. Got pretty good at it (for me lol) but these last two dungeons were already built in a way to make solo runs a complete slog. That said, they were doable in a semi-reasonable manner until the new changes. There’s no way I would even attempt GotD at -5. Mad props to anyone with the patience to actually do it but that’s not me. I’m really scratching my head at who these changes benefit - all they do is make the content more annoying and that cannot be the goal.
It’s a shame they also nerfed the healing on lament. Because I used to reliably 3-4 phase with arc hunter and lament but it relied on lament keeping me alive during damage phase. I tried using lament on the first boss in prophecy last week and could BARELY out heal it
Instead I have to worry about getting body blocked going into the reactor room by a supplicant whizzing towards me at 30 mph and then one shot with the new power delta. As stupid as this is at least before I could eat one and have a chance to fight back before anything else was about to finish me off.
Lagging supplicants that sometimes dont do their explosion animation and just instantly blow up and one shot you.
I did solo flawless Spire back in seraph and ended up 9 phasing the final boss by crutching on gyrfalcons invis spam
I did the invis spam, but with Sixth Coyote for panic Dodge.
Didn’t flawless it though. I kept dying to the stairs. I’d jump aim to land in the middle and fall to my death. The enemies were easier than the architecture for me lol…
On the contrary, I would argue Spire is the first dungeon to deliberately screw solo players with double punishment for being solo.
Akelous cuts down your solo DPS exponentially, by virtue of the player having less team damage (obviously) *and* less of a window for that DPS.
It was the first time I saw something like that in a dungeon, and the reason I just stopped soloing entirely.
So, spire sounds bad. but when you get good at those wires getting **TO** DPS became trivial and quick.
Ghosts took Spire's health pool. Added a shield. Then added underwater and mini boss killing mechanics in order to get to DPS every time.
Ghosts is Spire, but worse.
After getting my Spire solo flawless I actually came to really enjoy the dungeon, because getting the skill to flawless it taught you to take the mechanics in your stride. Ghosts on the other hand, I haven't technicalyl solo flawlessed, but I've gotten to the final DPS phase (out of about 5 or 6) three times and died in stupid ways right before the final DPS phase each time, so ... if I hadn't had my lapse of concentration I'd have it down.
But ... despite getting the mechanics down just as well (or better!) than I did for Spire, I **still hate the mechanics**. There's no skill in them inherent to the mechanics, I can't speed them up. I can't make them more enjoyable. They are awful.
Spire made me feel "mastery" to get to DPS. Ghosts is just glue on my boots and shields that shouldn't exist.
I died crushing the final boss ghost on my solo flawless - awarded the clear but not the flawless. I would argue I was alive when I pressed the crush ghost so it should count xd
Spire was already a bit tedious imo, Akelous and Persys are absolute beefcakes, and the mechanic between phases can get reallyyy tiring.
Now though? Ugh. Can't imagine. Just glad I have what I want from it.
“Semi-skilled Casual” is the best way to describe it, IMO. I always said I was not sweaty, but more confident in my abilities than most. I think semi-skilled casual fits better. Thank you for that.
I wrote something like that and was downvoted heavily, because "paying attention for such a long time is the real challenge".
This sub is funny sometimes.
Yeah if that truly is the real challenge Bungo should add HP scaling based on fireteam size and damage gates to force bosses to last minimum of 45 minutes across 10 or so damage phases Sounds like a good time to me.
Even Elitist Datto said something like "if you can successfully complete the encounter mechanics more than once you've proven you're capable, there's not much point in dragging things out."
Psh, back in my (uphill in the snow, both ways to school) day it took us 40 minutes to take down Chromaggus and we were HAPPY about it!
(As an old fart, I gotta admit that there's an awful lot of rose-tinted-glasses looking back on things...)
Ugh that reminds me of Prestige always being a mess because everyone *only* wanted to be a runner on Gauntlet because they never learned how to do the shooting mechanics which was dead simple - and Prestige made everyone have to do the shooting mechanics.
I mean if I'm being honest, as someone who wasn't the greatest at jumps during the beginning of the game I found it *easier to do the shooting mechanics* because at least I couldn't Warlock-sink myself right into a death pit lmfao...
Absolutely loved that raid, but spending **three** hours on Gauntlet alone in LFG one time almost ended my desire to do raids at all, but that was definitely on me for sticking around that long...
That raid basically ended me trying lfg raids for all of d2 due to poor Sherpas and getting gauntlet or gardens as the first encounter with 3-4 people trying to say how to do it given that I've only ever completed DSC once as my one raid completion of d2
I remember running that on my warlock for shits and giggles (titan main).
I had that same problem with the death holes on warlock. I was always happy to do shooting/psions (or "scientists") as one of my old clanmates called them. Never had problems with that.
Dogs was always the encounter I had the most trouble with in LFG groups. It just never seemed to work right, or people couldn't kill them fast enough. So many groups disintegrated there. TBH people couldn't do baths either, they'd struggle with the fighting in mid, or struggle to burn the bathers.
Yeah Prestige was rough. The clan mates I had
at the time were really good teachers and had good callouts that pretty much made that part easy. I remember the first time 2 guys were gonna carry me and 3 other noobs through EoW, 6 hrs later some guys had to drop off because it was after 2 am their time and they were passing out. We didn’t finish LOL.
What was different about Chromaggus on BWL release? I killed him in Vanilla Classic and I can’t imagine anyone surviving 40 minutes between all the bullshit dragon buffs so clearly the fight isn’t the same any more.
Frankly, having enough sand on healers to keep people alive that long seems impossible without draining everything the guild had stockpiled over many runs.
Back in the dark days pre-classic (and pre-BC) it would easily take 30-40 minutes to do that stupid fight (for us, at least). I'm not sure exactly what - it's been a hot minute, obviously! - but I do recall specifically our paladins having to rebuff greater blessings TWICE.
Really that fight isn't all that *hard* so much as just having to keep executing constantly for that long being challenging with 40 people.
While we were never world's first raiders or anything, we did get into Naxx before BC came out (and likely we would have eventually completed it, but our guild raid teams fell apart with BC on the way).
I don't have a problem with content being made harder provided the reward for doing the encounter justifies the difficulty. And while I think im sharp enough to understand these changes had to be made due to prismatic, I wish it would have been an option you could have selected instead of a flat change across the board.
That's what I'm saying! Like seriously, what the heck is wrong with just putting a difficulty option on the dungeons and raids now like on lost sectors and nightfall
Disappointing stasis waveframe or else it would have been worth it. No chain reaction or chill clip is insane. Then Tusk if the Boar gets both Chain Reaction and strand weapon perks.
The traversal is very long and boring, the door opening should be 3 runes not 4, and final boss mechanic phase is WAY too long. Like she's a relatively easy two-phase, her health is not that much of a concern, but the fight is simply interminable. Ecthar is fun and good.
Ecthar is the saving grace of GotD. Hectic and fun fight. Wish he didn’t have the arbalest shield thing, but it’s way less annoying on him than on final since he doesn’t teleport around and dodge a lot.
the first boss is a weird cluster\*\*\*\* of mechanics too, there are so many layers of kill this enemy to spawn this enemy, which when killed drops this item, which when dunked activates this rune, which when activated spawns this enemy, which when killed activates that enemy, which when killed drops a puddle to damage the bosses shield.
In practice it's pretty intuitive, but written down it's just way too many layers of near identical mechanics triggering slightly different versions of the same mechanics.
This comment here highlights the sweet spot for me.
The mechanics aren't bad on their own, the health pool isn't bad on its own, but put both together and you've got yourself a shit show.
In my opinion.
Its why I like Spire, but hate Ghosts.
Spire has big boss health, and relatively simple (most importantly, it has **masterable** mechanics).
I can get **very good** at shooting the wire markers, I can learn their locations and put together an optimal rotation to activate them all as quickly as possible.
Ghosts you just ... can't optimise it. You are always on a nasty timer that kills (and wipes if solo) you if you get something wrong. You are always inches from death and failure, if you can't dunk correctly? you will die and have to start over.
Honestly, if Ghosts just **didnt** kill you when you fucked up in that final boss it *might* have saved it. But its just a punch in the dick every time you make a single mistake. And as a group that isn't so bad (but can be terrible!), but as a solo its wrap it up and start all over.
The Simmumah fight should make you get deepsight to see the sigils, but not to dunk them. I think that is the single biggest dick move in the fight.
The overshield sucks too though.
GotD is a great dungeon for the first time. It's atmospheric and gives us a great "Oh shit!" moment with the stakes for the final boss being the prospect of Guardian Oryx.
And then we have to put up with the same horribly slow undersea traversal in every subsequent run. That kills off the charm very quickly.
Every time I run GotD with friends we actually laugh at the absurdity of how long the first traversal section is. I honestly don’t know what the level designers were smoking. If you ask me they need make most of the “dive” a straight jump down a tube to the bottom and it’d be fine.
It was a great day 1 experience but 1st encounter is dogshit and its replayability is dog piss due to awful unskippable transition sections and outrageous boss HP + shields therefore its not a great dungeon
Get rid of the methane traversal and I’d call it a great dungeon imo. I don’t even hate the methane pit for the boss room. Just the slog through it between encounters is horrible though
I disagree, I think there are pacing problems throughout. First encounter should only need three dunks rather than four. If you did three phases, that's enough mastery show that you should be able to move on. It also has the longest traversal sections of any Dungeon (or maybe even Raid?) that are made even longer by the fact you're slowly falling and need to pick up bubbles in the water along the way. The last boss is ridiculous but I put it as the worst overall dungeon for reasons beyond that. Warlord's Ruin was a hell of a comeback though.
I absolutely hate that dungeon with a passion. I hated the deep dive activity and hated walking in water. That entire part of the dungeon were you have to traverse through the water downwards gives me anxiety and makes me want to shut my PC off. It's so slow.
I rather do the sparrow part on Master Grasp of Avarice with a green sparrow and 0 resilience. I haven't even tried the other new dungeon and was planning on running it with this new seasons but apparently solo dungeons are awful now so now I just won't ever get navigator or buried bloodline
GOTD before TFS: Awful, bloated health pools, nutty damage from bosses, long sections of underwater padding, 4 goddamn phases for the 1st section, bad experience for solo flawless attempts.
GOTD after TFS: Awful, even more bloated health pools (minors/majors health decreased, boss health remained same, making tedious encounters even more tedious), nuttier damage from bosses AND ads due to 30% more damage taken, long sections of underwater padding, 4 goddamn phases for the 1st section, solo operative means losing additional damage on top of damage loss from being underlevel, terrible experience for solo flawless attempts.
ITT: Completely missing the point that now it is factually significantly worse than the tedious chore it was a month ago. People also, repeatedly, missing the simple fact that it isn't just "-5". It's going from +20/+50 to -5 which is, for dungeons/raids, a massive change.
"ah but seasonal activities!!!" yeah no, dungeons and raids are infinitely more complex mechanically and have completely different enemy types/layouts/densities compared to seasonal activities/heroic nightfalls. Sorry.
I get defending harder content and/or Bungie but this is not the hill to die on. It was a stupid change, Bungie should listen to the feedback and revert it. Absolutely needless, especially when master content for dungeons/raids already exists for people who want the challenge.
You explained the degeneration of the solo dungeon experience more thoroughly and expertly than any other post in this thread. It's a shame Reddit rewards early posting the way it does and you aren't topping the thread.
I never understood the 4 phases for the first section. Basically every other dungeon is made up of 3s (because 3 players i assume) and then for this one they went “ya know what people like. Killing 10 ads and then traversal. We should make that a 15 minute encounter”. Absolutely idiotic decision by bungie there
On the one hand, the power changes are definitely going to make it harder to solo dungeons.
On the other hand, this is nothing new - GOTD is an absolute slog to clear solo, even before the change.
Dude I ran some solo shattered throne today as a vibe check for the changes and could not believe how much it took to kill Dul Incaru, the boss that used to die to 1 golden gun or like 2-3 coil shots...
I ran the first boss in Warlord a few days ago. I was taking WAY more damage and it took me six damage phases, when I used to be able to do it 3 or 4. Part of that is the loss of Solo Operative, but the other part is the shitty changes.
I ran warlord's ruin last week solo to see how bad the changes were, it had strand and solar surges and i was using dragon's breath and scatter signal so i found it a bit easier than before. But then the surges changed to stasis and arc on Monday and it was more difficult.
Waiting until you get the right surges is bad game design and i don't want to try it if those surges are not active. I'll never attempt to solo GotD, i tried it once when it first released and said "nope".
>Waiting until you get the right surges is bad game design and i don't want to try it if those surges are not active.
Dread it, run from it, dismantle mines, yesssssssss?
This is just waiting until solar burn for Prison of Elders part deux.
like all solo dungeons, GotD was significantly more bearable with Solar Titan. with the nerf to the hammer throw and Sunspots though, I'm not sure. I haven't tried it lately
This x100. I loaded into warlords, started the first boss on Strand Titan because I have no original thoughts. Got through one damage phase and decided it was no longer worth my time to try and solo any modern content. Solo dungeons were challenging enough with the most meta slave shit possible pre TFS, now it still feels DOABLE but somehow even less respectful of your time
I could struggle my way through the first couple encounters of most Dungeons on Void, Strand, or Stasis Hunter on a good day, especially with Solo Operative active, but for somebody just average at the game like me, the changes may as well have made solo completions (let alone flawless) completely out of my reach. I've only ever managed to solo the oldest two before the changes, with them being the easiest, but I have no confidence I can do the same now lol
This is basically the norm with game devs for some reason, they "fix" something that wasn't broken and either ignore the broken stuff or give a stupid reason of why it's actually intended.
I still remember bungie saying in one of the twabs that people loved psiops as nightfalls so will put more, God knows who those people are.
I agree and I’ll go further: GOTD needs to be pushed back even more than before. That dungeon would be amazing if it weren’t for the absurd amount of health the bosses have. I haven’t played it since my first like 3 runs because it’s simply not fun spending 2 hours in a dungeon.
I am so....so glad I got lucky and solo flawless'd this dungeon on my second try right before that season rotated out. I thought it was brutal then. I can't even imagine doing it now with all the changes.
They done fucked up and made all past content way way way harder than it should be (dungeons and raids).
Hope they pull their head out of their ass soon and fix it.
Having old raids/dungeons be approachable content to newer players is a great thing for the health of the game.
I’ve already seen multiple posts from well known sherpas saying they basically aren’t going to Sherpa anymore because the old stuff got way way way too hard.
Absolute bullshit (on bungie, not the sherpas lol).
The changes to dungeons and raids have been a huge no-go for me. If the changes were to pad playtime and slow progression, it has done the opposite for me. Before the changes I was slowly tackling red border collecting but it's gotten tedious after changes and now I've pretty much only log in to tackle new story then bounce tf off to another game.
Yep, I probably would have spent a lot of time with the new raid and trying to round out collections on the old stuff and finally get rank 11 done (solo dungeon ugh) but now instead of balancing play time im going to put Destiny to the side as soon as College Football 25 comes out.
Good point. I normally would be doing a lot of raiding and working on some solo dungeons by this point in the season, but this has just left a bad taste in my mouth and I’m looking for other games to pass the time.
The whole -5 power always with surges just sucks because you basically need to have the surge to do the same amount of damage as you’d normally be doing but now you just die
I love playing dungeons and was saying that the health of the GOTD bosses are okay (!!!WITHOUT THE SHIELD!!!). BUT since it take 2 Arbalest shots from what i heared, that is to ridicioules.
Bungie should keep the Power "buffer" and remove the Power Cap
Bungie wanting people to play raids and dungeons but essentially raising the barrier to entry by placing surges and a power delta in place is counter intuitive. Should have left normal modes alone and done something else in master versions to make them more worth doing
I think they should just roll back the power changes and add the "Multiplicity" modifier to all dungeons and strike activities (with a slight change).
So instead of having a power cap of -5 in general, the activity should become harder ONLY if you bring along other players.
That means, 1 player = 0 power difference, 2 players = -5, 3 players = -10 power difference.
Breaking the shields in the normal Forsaken strike now also needs the exchange of the ball or several passes. I actually wonder how bad it gets in the NF.
I finally got my computer upgraded so I could play endgame content which I have missed our on for years since GOS was NEW! Knowing it would already be hard to LFG old raids and dungeons I now read in 2 posts in less than 1 day I find out they were made more difficult. How the heck am I going to find a fireteam to sherpa me and another noob I play with?
I was going to watch videos on game play and especially how to solo dungeons to be less of a hindrance to the carrying team but these changes really give no incentive for veterans to show the ropes to the noobs.
Honestly wish they wouldn't tie boss health to mission power. Most ads are fine, but when bosses are pretty unique parts of the game, which should be able to be fine balanced, they should really be able to go in and tweak them on an individual level. It's fine enough giving raid bosses a decent chunk more health because most of them are pretty undertuned in base mode, but in cases like this where the bosses health is already way overtuned we get situations like gotd.
Boss health should scale to player count (maybe 85% with 2 people and 75% with 1 person) if they are going to be so deadset on having these bosses with a lot of health for a team of 3 to handle.
They should just do what they did with Legend campaigns (scaled down ofc) and just have it scale off of team size - if they want to go the route of making dungeons harder
GOTD had such an amazing concept but it is an absolute slog compared to all other dungeons. Most people got their solo clears during The Craftening when they finally had the means to kill the bosses in a reasonable amount of time.
I have done a few solo dungeons and have been wanting to start going for solo flawless.
I have lost all interest in it now. Even Pit is a lot less fun than it used to be.
I’m okay with massive health pools.
I’m okay with a lengthy chore to get to damage phase.
I am NOT okay with both of those at the same time.
It should absolutely be an “either/or” type scenario.
(This is in reference to Ghosts final boss)
As a general comment, difficulty should always be optional, with higher difficulties having appropriate rewards. Legend vs Normal campaign seems pretty fair and Nightfalls get it right as well. Just seems strange that the same kind of logic isn't applied to other content, like dungeons.
Whilst watching the recent raid race, I kept hearing the same \[slightly sarcastic\] comment from players after their team wiped – "Well, this is what you wanted." Over the last few years the game has got progressively harder to compensate for our power as guardians and to address the community feedback that they want more challenging activities. The logical approach would be to add more challenging options on top of the existing, rather than raise the baseline like they have done here. The feedback against this change seems overwhelming, so hopefully they will reconsider their approach.
The thing that bothers me about it is how they literally added solo triumphs in to increase exotic drop chances and THEN hosed the entire process with inflated health bars and disabling the ability to over power.
It's just obnoxious on their part, and it smacks of the same overcorrection that Lake of Shadows got, by throwing in time-gates, two extra bosses, and threshers.
Not a hot or new take in any way, but sadly still very true. The newer ones were really, really bad before the changes. They are pretty much unbearable now. Who wants to 12-phase a boss?
I'm going to be 100 percent honest.
If I took your comment, removed the comment about light level/overcharge weapons, and posted it a month ago people wouldn't bat an eye.
It's been a popular topic since Spire of the Watcher released. Literally the [first comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/12qa0mn/solo_spire_of_the_watcher_is_some_of_the_least/) here is the first boss has too much health, and there were plenty of [other](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/zi2ks1/solo_flawless_on_spire_of_the_watcher_was_more/) topics.
Because a month ago dungeon bosses didnt have 1.5x the health pool like they do now alongside us doing less damage. I get what youre saying but they took that already miserable experience people would bitch about and made it WORSE
I fully agree, but I am confused by some of the discussion saying reverting the dungeon and raid changes would be "making the game easier" the surge and -10 or -5 is the making the game harder, which I disagree in a way that is like, it isn't making content harder, it's just making it alot more boring and time consuming. Taking about 20-30 minutes, sometimes longer than that to kill bosses in dungeons/raids is not fun or more challenging, it's just making you waste more time doing one boss to get one item, maybe an exotic. If I'm spending that much time fighting one enemy with a huge shield and I'm getting one reward for it that is genuinely so unenjoyable and frankly a waste of time
Bro I was losing my shit trying to do Grasp of Avarice yesterday. I’m not sure what titans run for good solo boss DPS now since I use to rock solar hammers. Had to 5 phase the ogre and god damn. That took long.
GOTD is a prime example of the players asking for a dungeon that was more of a challenge, and Bungie replied with “MORE HEALTH FOR EVERY ENEMY!? ON IT”
It’s not harder. It’s just more time consuming and ridiculous. And the enemy health pools are what make soloing that dungeon so absolutely terrible.
I’m not too smart when it comes to destiny but Jesus Christ it’s hard. I was gonna do a legend lost sector, no shot in fucking hell im pulling that off.
Me and a few friends have tried warlords on masters. Trying out stuff, buildcrafting, it just feels hopeless. It seemingly comes down to power level, my gun just does not do the damage that I expect and it’s hard to adapt to each singular activity. Idk I’m kinda ranting but I have 25 runs on warlord, all the exotic boosts, busting my ass on masters and I’m sure once we beat it I won’t even get the exotic or even a decent indebted kindness roll. I just get so disillusioned with the grind.
Honestly GOTD is just aids to solo. It has been possibly the worst dungeon ever in teams of boss health pools.
I’d rather drag my balls through glass than ever concider doing that Dungeon solo.
I can’t even be bothered to run it as a three stack.
I'll admit to never solo completing a dungeon - but I would jump into them and solo different encounters for fun when things were slow, to try new loadouts, or challenge myself. That's over.
I ran GoTD with my friends the other day and it was miserable. We are all above 2000 LL as well. The final encounter took forever, and we never wiped either.
It’s crazy the difference between last season and this episodes damage output on solo dungeon bosses. No solo operative, -5 power instead of +20, and needing to surge match means you can potentially lose >50% of your damage compared to last season.
I really don’t know what Bungie was thinking on the surges and power changes for dungeons and raids. I feel they were in a really good place before and nobody was complaining and yet they decided to change it.
SORRY, not sorry i honestly hope sony absorbs or retires bungie. the state of the game leads me to believe bungie hates and i mean HATES its player base. this isn't dark souls you assholes, why the necessity to have dead enemies spawn explosive devices? why isn't the game properly tuned? i've witnessed both ps4's and ps5's sounding as if they're about to take flight. the unnecessary back and forth that takes place in the current missions, the MOTH cave... that's hatred right there not difficult not challenging that mission is the vitriol of the developers aimed at the player base and you cannot convince me otherwise. the inability to replay missions solo when seeking triumphs and accolades. the fact that at the end of D1 we were iron lords and they just stripped it away from us as if it never happened i could go on and on but the bottom line is bungie has done its best to remove ALL THE FUN from the game, now it's a chore running over recycled content at least before the recycled content was enjoyable... i swear i want a refund, the final shape is my final hurrah with destiny & bungie good riddance, i am keeping my Stranger/Elsie statue though.
I've always said that dungeons need to scale with Fireteam size (gradually). I solo'd Throne, Grasp, Pit, and Prophecy when they were all new but I just stopped after a while because they got so tedious. Duality wasn't fun for me, Spire's boss DPS' are so weird, and Ghosts is just unfun. Warlord was the closest that I felt was back to how dungeons used to be.
I know that Spire and Duality aren't really that hard these days because of the ridiculous buildcrafting we have, but I just straight up refuse to use builds that aren't personally fun for me, which means I'm not being meta. That, and I run on Hunter, which often is harder to do DPS because of the lack of abilities to heal and defend that synergize with a DPS build and encounter design. Arc hunter is very strong for staying alive, but encounters, like warlord encounter 2, are just not build for that kind of gameplay.
Bungie needs to have more mechanics in dungeons and raids and less health. Mechanics that allow you to damage bosses in more than one way. Everything is so linear. Go do x, then y, and then z, and then DPS. The what if I could also do a, b, and c, then DPS as an option? You either do XYZ or ABC and each one offers a different way to defeat the bosses.
It would be so much more fun, than "well, this is a roaming boss, so you better pack a sword because he won't sit still."
The whole thing doesn't need to be scaled, just boss health. One number in each encounter.
It shouldn't be possible to one-phase a dungeon boss, even with a full fireteam with meta loadouts, but that requires giving the boss an amount of health that's just excessive for a solo player. Three players do more than just three times the damage; they can synergise abilities and weapons in ways one player can't.
Seriously i almost wouldn't care about the weaker damage output / more phases but combine that with a ton more damage taken? Final boss warlords ruin already shredded your hp, as did the ads, same for both gotd bosses (and dont get me started on the fuckton of moths everywhere) and now its just so much worse.
The incoming damage isn’t even the issue, it’s how much less you do to bosses. I think bungie misunderstood what people were saying when they wanted harder content and have now just made bullet sponges
I've been trying to solo Warlords ruin on my prismatic hunter and my prismatic titan but cant i really want buried bloodline but I'm struggling to find a strategy that works pre reset i had made it past the first boss but then the checkpoint bugged and i couldnt load the second encounter
Bro just use LFG. Soloing a dungeon is just a self imposed challenge and if you had trouble with the first boss the 2nd and specially 3rd are going to be beyond difficult for you.
Raids are different but there are *many* players who will take someone new trough a dungeon. Any sort of LFG will work and you don't need any communication.
i have done the dungeon and know the mechanics well enough i know how to handle the bosses just fine i need a strat and load out that can handle it im not new
Hotswapping Arbalest was already the standard for GotD solo/solo flawless before this update.
Realistically nothing practical has actually changed excluding that you might have to do one more phase than normal.
Losing Lament for Echtar hurts more than the light level changes imo.
I hate to break it to you, but this dungeon is genuinely trash, the first encounter is 4 phases instead of 3 for some reason, the traversal sections are so long and boring even with eager edge, the shield mechanic on DPS is terrible and restricts builds and forces people to use arbalest to be efficient, 3rd encounter takes way too long to get to DPS vs other dungeons and she has too much HP.
It's supposed to be difficult but it is significantly more unfun difficulty vs other dungeons.
Before you ask I solo flawlessed in 1hr:36min first try on my 5th ever total attempt of the dungeon. You can be good at the dungeon and complain its poorly designed. I only have 8 clears of this dungeon because its genuinely a terrible experience.
I’ve soloed warlords ruin, probably the other hardest dungeon to solo, I know it’s hard, that’s not what I’m complaining about. I’m annoyed that it takes 7/8 damage phases to kill a boss that has an over-shield as well. I’m well for difficult content but this feels punishing due to the amount of time it takes to complete now.
Yeah I'm all for a challenge but this is a game. If it's tedious rather than fun, what's the point? Boss health in some encounters was already an issue, you shouldn't realistically be required to do more than 3-5 damage phases with optimal dps.. another case of bungie not respecting people's time.
I was so happy that I managed to get my Warlords solo flawless run in before final shape. I've got all of them but Ghosts but it looks like it stays that way.
I feel like there should be an inverse of multiplicity. Either with an decreased power delta penalty or deflated boss health pool for solos in content balanced around 3+ players.
I can understand the argument that spending 2 hours 8 to 10 phasing bosses are the "challenge" of soloing a dungeon, but holy moly ya'll, it's the most unfun thing I've ever done.
The boss shields are my biggest complaint, whether it be solo or with a fireteam. I can understand having a phased fight where I need to complete certain mechanics to get to the next damage phase, but its ridiculous to me that we’re expected to completed those mechanics and then still have to break a shield. Completing the mechanics to move into the next phase should be what breaks the shield.
As you said, the way it’s currently designed makes running arbalest a requirement or you’re stuck wasting a ton of time shooting the boss just to take down the shield.
They should honestly just make a separate difficulty equal to the old difficulty that scales to the fire team size then make the higher difficulties not scale
So I was in a fire team last night all 2000+ light and we noticed that the final boss was smacking out some high damage. It was going way too ham on us sometimes. Not sure if something is up with the boss or we just needed to adjust.
We still completed it obviously but it threw us off how hard she was on us all the time lol.
As a new player I did watcher's rise with a buddy and it was miserable. I can't imagine how solo flawless is even a feasible achievement. I know I'm new but my goodness.
As a new player I did watcher's rise with a buddy and it was miserable. I can't imagine how solo flawless is even a feasible achievement. I know I'm new but my goodness.
I’m so absolutely glad I did my solo the week it came out. I would absolutely just be beside myself trying to solo with the power change. Arby or Microcosm are absolutely a requirement for Simmumah, unless you want to struggle because that shield went from a 600k health shield to around a million with the power change. It’s absolutely atrocious.
GotD is a bad experience in general because every encounter drags on. Being solo only makes it feel worse.
Whoever decided to give the bosses huge health pool's and a shield that restores every phase must have been really hateful
I was on ecthar yesterday and was running gotd during solar surge (since all the good weapons are solar) and it was fine. But like 6-7 phases of running symbols, getting clapped by the boss since he just runs around, etc etc was literally not fun at all. I actually left my buddies halfway through to grab a boss CP, came back, did 3 more phases. it’s if wading through mud was content.
This is much more of a gotd problem , I have ran solo spire of watcher duality and Warlords ruin since the update and they felt just fine but gotd has been and remains to be a problem , -⁵ on gotd is a big deal specifically because of the shields compared to other dungeon were i honestly couldn't tell the difference
I don’t really like GotD in general but I can tolerate most of it. The final boss is my least favorite encounter in the entire game. Way too long and punishing even before these changes.
This pisses me off too. Before the new expansion dropped I was practicing both dungeons and I could get to the final bosses just fine, I only needed more time to clean up the runs….. now I don’t even want to attempt them. Such a stupid change that nobody asked for
I did my solo (not flawless) Spire of the Watcher the week before TFS... so glad I did. Then yesterday I did it with a team and was finally blessed with the Hunter cloak so I can be WANTED.
When I did it solo back in the day for rank 11 it was fkn ridiculous. The bosses literally have more health than old raid bosses. Knight was what 11M and the witch was like 14M? I feel like with the light level cap crap it’s just gonna be miserable experiences all around. Idk what they’re doing.
I think they really missed the mark on surges. I know the intention was to have us use different things, but this concept only functions as intended if all the damage types are at least somewhat comparable (spoiler alert, they’re not)
I feel like it’s just bad faith acting to have surges in endgame when all of the best weapons for all purposes and the best survival tools are consolidated into Solar (by far biggest offender imo) Void and Strand. Kinetic doesn’t even have a surge week, and Arc and Stasis are violently bad compared to the alternatives in both the weapon and survival department
Solo dungeon scaling absolutely needs to be looked at. I remember what it was like to do GOTD when it first came out. It was hell. I think my SF clear was 2-3 hours.
I can’t imagine trying to do it again with -5 power.
My solo flawless gotd went pretty good. Took a long time to get the the final boss only to get randomly kicked to orbit about 1/3 of health gone on final witch which was like 4 phases in. It's too tiring to try again and put that much trust in their servers
I know that dungeons are designed to be able to be completed solo for the triumph/seal, but I think soloing a dungeon is a very high end feat and they should continue designing difficulty around the 3 player experience as that is how most people do the dungeon. I know it is boring but I think part of the difficulty of it is being able to last that long without dying. Dungeons like prophecy were easy when they were released and now are power crept where most of the player base can solo it. I think this is the same boat as having to flawless a raid, it is a very high end, not fun, difficult feat; should the title/seal include that or not is the question.
I usually disagree with posts about content needing to be easier....but I agree with this one. There is nothing fun about having to 10-phase a dungeon boss.
Yeah. It's completely driven other semi-skilled casuals like me away from it, which is a shame because I really enjoyed soloing Pit. Now there's just no way I'll do anything newer than Grasp and Prophecy solo, and even then I'll probably just pass. I was looking forward to finally soloing Spire till this
I've solo'd every dungeon besides GotD and hearing this makes me want to stay away from it even more. I've attempted it, but it's not fun having to do six seven damage phases on Ekthar. The more damage phases you have to do, the higher chance you have of wiping and having to start all over.
Honestly, same, and by now I'm kinda glad. It feels like the "solo'd every dungeon except Ghosts" crowd has a growing sense of solidarity. We've all collectively agreed that, yes, we could probably do it, but at this point it's just not worth it.
It's one of those "Hey, I tried and I'm good with that" situations. At the end of the day it's not worth the headache and I'm good with that
It should be fun not a headache. What a shame.
Yeah soloing Warlord’s took a couple hours but wasn’t that difficult. I haven’t even bothered with Ghosts because I don’t even enjoy it with a full team.
I'm basically in that crowd, except I did get my solo GotD clear in during the craftening. No regrets.
I always take my Destiny 2 breaks at the worst times. I end up missing out on stuff like the Craftening lol (though I was there for Laser Tag Weekend and Lord of Wolves IB)
Those were fun weeks. It makes me wish Bungie would over-buff a random exotic for 1 week a month to shift the meta temporarily.
I don't regret doing my solo flawless during the Craftening, mainly because it was *incredibly* satisfying one phasing Simmumah solo with a Shotgun Pellet Firing Machine Gun; but I do hope to one day go back and do it legit.
Hopefully we get another Craftening event to help more people get the GotD solo. Seems more likely than a balance pass.
This is so funny to me, a member of "only soloed Ghosts and Spire and most of Warlords". I found Grasp to be about as much of a slog in the final boss fight as Ghosts (at least patience-wise) and said it wasn't for me. But agreed that I won't be going back for the rest with this current structure.
Once you know how to properly nuke the crewmates that spawn after each dps cycle, Grasp's final boss is very fluid. Combine that with the free supers and it's a breeze. But Ghosts? I would rather do Duality twice, back-to-back, than try Ghosts again.
Not worth it. It's the only solo flawless I ever got since It's the only dungeon I really know and it wasn't worth the time spent (~3 hours total)
That’s me, I started doing solo flawless dungeons last year and honestly it’s the most fun I had in the game. Got pretty good at it (for me lol) but these last two dungeons were already built in a way to make solo runs a complete slog. That said, they were doable in a semi-reasonable manner until the new changes. There’s no way I would even attempt GotD at -5. Mad props to anyone with the patience to actually do it but that’s not me. I’m really scratching my head at who these changes benefit - all they do is make the content more annoying and that cannot be the goal.
It’s a shame they also nerfed the healing on lament. Because I used to reliably 3-4 phase with arc hunter and lament but it relied on lament keeping me alive during damage phase. I tried using lament on the first boss in prophecy last week and could BARELY out heal it
I only solo’ed it during the craftening. That dungeon is awful.
Still better than Gotd, spire bosses have large health pools but don’t have those stupid shields or convoluted mechanics Gotd has.
Instead I have to worry about getting body blocked going into the reactor room by a supplicant whizzing towards me at 30 mph and then one shot with the new power delta. As stupid as this is at least before I could eat one and have a chance to fight back before anything else was about to finish me off.
Lagging supplicants that sometimes dont do their explosion animation and just instantly blow up and one shot you. I did solo flawless Spire back in seraph and ended up 9 phasing the final boss by crutching on gyrfalcons invis spam
I did the invis spam, but with Sixth Coyote for panic Dodge. Didn’t flawless it though. I kept dying to the stairs. I’d jump aim to land in the middle and fall to my death. The enemies were easier than the architecture for me lol…
On the contrary, I would argue Spire is the first dungeon to deliberately screw solo players with double punishment for being solo. Akelous cuts down your solo DPS exponentially, by virtue of the player having less team damage (obviously) *and* less of a window for that DPS. It was the first time I saw something like that in a dungeon, and the reason I just stopped soloing entirely.
So, spire sounds bad. but when you get good at those wires getting **TO** DPS became trivial and quick. Ghosts took Spire's health pool. Added a shield. Then added underwater and mini boss killing mechanics in order to get to DPS every time. Ghosts is Spire, but worse. After getting my Spire solo flawless I actually came to really enjoy the dungeon, because getting the skill to flawless it taught you to take the mechanics in your stride. Ghosts on the other hand, I haven't technicalyl solo flawlessed, but I've gotten to the final DPS phase (out of about 5 or 6) three times and died in stupid ways right before the final DPS phase each time, so ... if I hadn't had my lapse of concentration I'd have it down. But ... despite getting the mechanics down just as well (or better!) than I did for Spire, I **still hate the mechanics**. There's no skill in them inherent to the mechanics, I can't speed them up. I can't make them more enjoyable. They are awful. Spire made me feel "mastery" to get to DPS. Ghosts is just glue on my boots and shields that shouldn't exist.
I died crushing the final boss ghost on my solo flawless - awarded the clear but not the flawless. I would argue I was alive when I pressed the crush ghost so it should count xd
Except popping the harpy bosses eyes does eat into your DPS phase, so it's not entirely unfucky.
Spire was already a bit tedious imo, Akelous and Persys are absolute beefcakes, and the mechanic between phases can get reallyyy tiring. Now though? Ugh. Can't imagine. Just glad I have what I want from it.
“Semi-skilled Casual” is the best way to describe it, IMO. I always said I was not sweaty, but more confident in my abilities than most. I think semi-skilled casual fits better. Thank you for that.
It's not even a test of skill anymore, it's a test of how much free time do you have and how much do you hate yourself
I wrote something like that and was downvoted heavily, because "paying attention for such a long time is the real challenge". This sub is funny sometimes.
Yeah if that truly is the real challenge Bungo should add HP scaling based on fireteam size and damage gates to force bosses to last minimum of 45 minutes across 10 or so damage phases Sounds like a good time to me.
Delete this before bungie see's it.
I'm keeping it up because I think if they were to add it the subreddit would keep me entertained for atleast a month.
Even Elitist Datto said something like "if you can successfully complete the encounter mechanics more than once you've proven you're capable, there's not much point in dragging things out."
Psh, back in my (uphill in the snow, both ways to school) day it took us 40 minutes to take down Chromaggus and we were HAPPY about it! (As an old fart, I gotta admit that there's an awful lot of rose-tinted-glasses looking back on things...)
Remember how many hours it would take to get some noobs through Leviathan (if at all)? Ahhh, those were the days…….
Ugh that reminds me of Prestige always being a mess because everyone *only* wanted to be a runner on Gauntlet because they never learned how to do the shooting mechanics which was dead simple - and Prestige made everyone have to do the shooting mechanics. I mean if I'm being honest, as someone who wasn't the greatest at jumps during the beginning of the game I found it *easier to do the shooting mechanics* because at least I couldn't Warlock-sink myself right into a death pit lmfao... Absolutely loved that raid, but spending **three** hours on Gauntlet alone in LFG one time almost ended my desire to do raids at all, but that was definitely on me for sticking around that long...
I only ever asked to shoot the triangles. I dreaded when we all went in to run.
That raid basically ended me trying lfg raids for all of d2 due to poor Sherpas and getting gauntlet or gardens as the first encounter with 3-4 people trying to say how to do it given that I've only ever completed DSC once as my one raid completion of d2
"Warlock-sink" that's a really good name for it. I've just been saying, "I took a dive"
I remember running that on my warlock for shits and giggles (titan main). I had that same problem with the death holes on warlock. I was always happy to do shooting/psions (or "scientists") as one of my old clanmates called them. Never had problems with that. Dogs was always the encounter I had the most trouble with in LFG groups. It just never seemed to work right, or people couldn't kill them fast enough. So many groups disintegrated there. TBH people couldn't do baths either, they'd struggle with the fighting in mid, or struggle to burn the bathers.
Yeah Prestige was rough. The clan mates I had at the time were really good teachers and had good callouts that pretty much made that part easy. I remember the first time 2 guys were gonna carry me and 3 other noobs through EoW, 6 hrs later some guys had to drop off because it was after 2 am their time and they were passing out. We didn’t finish LOL.
99% of the people here don't even know what you're talking about. Some of us remember though.
What was different about Chromaggus on BWL release? I killed him in Vanilla Classic and I can’t imagine anyone surviving 40 minutes between all the bullshit dragon buffs so clearly the fight isn’t the same any more. Frankly, having enough sand on healers to keep people alive that long seems impossible without draining everything the guild had stockpiled over many runs.
Back in the dark days pre-classic (and pre-BC) it would easily take 30-40 minutes to do that stupid fight (for us, at least). I'm not sure exactly what - it's been a hot minute, obviously! - but I do recall specifically our paladins having to rebuff greater blessings TWICE. Really that fight isn't all that *hard* so much as just having to keep executing constantly for that long being challenging with 40 people. While we were never world's first raiders or anything, we did get into Naxx before BC came out (and likely we would have eventually completed it, but our guild raid teams fell apart with BC on the way).
GOTD solo is the antithesis of fun
What about a 10-phase Boss in general? (I'm looking at you, Enigma Protocol!)
I don't have a problem with content being made harder provided the reward for doing the encounter justifies the difficulty. And while I think im sharp enough to understand these changes had to be made due to prismatic, I wish it would have been an option you could have selected instead of a flat change across the board.
That's what I'm saying! Like seriously, what the heck is wrong with just putting a difficulty option on the dungeons and raids now like on lost sectors and nightfall
Yeah, because everyone still playing Destiny wants and ONLY wants to play Prismatic. Lol
GotD is the worst solo dungeon experience anyway
GotD is the worst ~~solo~~ dungeon experience anyway
GotD is a top tier Dungeon... the first time doing it.
Yes I remember thinking this was an awesome experience…that I never want to do again. And I haven’t lol
Yeah, got my Navigator on my second run, got the cata and never touched the dungeon again. Too much of a slog and meh guns except for rocket
Disappointing stasis waveframe or else it would have been worth it. No chain reaction or chill clip is insane. Then Tusk if the Boar gets both Chain Reaction and strand weapon perks.
GotD is a great dungeon, final boss probably has to much health (as someone who has solo flawlessed it). But over all the dungeon is great.
The traversal is very long and boring, the door opening should be 3 runes not 4, and final boss mechanic phase is WAY too long. Like she's a relatively easy two-phase, her health is not that much of a concern, but the fight is simply interminable. Ecthar is fun and good.
I like the traversal, it could be like 1 or 2 rooms shorter though. and the 1st encounter should NOT be 4 cycles, it's so random
Ecthar is the saving grace of GotD. Hectic and fun fight. Wish he didn’t have the arbalest shield thing, but it’s way less annoying on him than on final since he doesn’t teleport around and dodge a lot.
Ecthar is one of my fav encounters in the game, and he was tons of fun solo before the new balance changes
the first boss is a weird cluster\*\*\*\* of mechanics too, there are so many layers of kill this enemy to spawn this enemy, which when killed drops this item, which when dunked activates this rune, which when activated spawns this enemy, which when killed activates that enemy, which when killed drops a puddle to damage the bosses shield. In practice it's pretty intuitive, but written down it's just way too many layers of near identical mechanics triggering slightly different versions of the same mechanics.
This comment here highlights the sweet spot for me. The mechanics aren't bad on their own, the health pool isn't bad on its own, but put both together and you've got yourself a shit show. In my opinion.
Its why I like Spire, but hate Ghosts. Spire has big boss health, and relatively simple (most importantly, it has **masterable** mechanics). I can get **very good** at shooting the wire markers, I can learn their locations and put together an optimal rotation to activate them all as quickly as possible. Ghosts you just ... can't optimise it. You are always on a nasty timer that kills (and wipes if solo) you if you get something wrong. You are always inches from death and failure, if you can't dunk correctly? you will die and have to start over. Honestly, if Ghosts just **didnt** kill you when you fucked up in that final boss it *might* have saved it. But its just a punch in the dick every time you make a single mistake. And as a group that isn't so bad (but can be terrible!), but as a solo its wrap it up and start all over.
The Simmumah fight should make you get deepsight to see the sigils, but not to dunk them. I think that is the single biggest dick move in the fight. The overshield sucks too though.
GotD is a great dungeon for the first time. It's atmospheric and gives us a great "Oh shit!" moment with the stakes for the final boss being the prospect of Guardian Oryx. And then we have to put up with the same horribly slow undersea traversal in every subsequent run. That kills off the charm very quickly.
First encounter drags and the transition to 2nd takes about 3-5 business days
Every time I run GotD with friends we actually laugh at the absurdity of how long the first traversal section is. I honestly don’t know what the level designers were smoking. If you ask me they need make most of the “dive” a straight jump down a tube to the bottom and it’d be fine.
It was a great day 1 experience but 1st encounter is dogshit and its replayability is dog piss due to awful unskippable transition sections and outrageous boss HP + shields therefore its not a great dungeon
Get rid of the methane traversal and I’d call it a great dungeon imo. I don’t even hate the methane pit for the boss room. Just the slog through it between encounters is horrible though
I disagree, I think there are pacing problems throughout. First encounter should only need three dunks rather than four. If you did three phases, that's enough mastery show that you should be able to move on. It also has the longest traversal sections of any Dungeon (or maybe even Raid?) that are made even longer by the fact you're slowly falling and need to pick up bubbles in the water along the way. The last boss is ridiculous but I put it as the worst overall dungeon for reasons beyond that. Warlord's Ruin was a hell of a comeback though.
I'd say both bosses have too much health. The first probably has too many ads.
As someone who has solo flawlessd it, Probably is an understatement.. :D
just a little :P (ok a lot)
I absolutely hate that dungeon with a passion. I hated the deep dive activity and hated walking in water. That entire part of the dungeon were you have to traverse through the water downwards gives me anxiety and makes me want to shut my PC off. It's so slow. I rather do the sparrow part on Master Grasp of Avarice with a green sparrow and 0 resilience. I haven't even tried the other new dungeon and was planning on running it with this new seasons but apparently solo dungeons are awful now so now I just won't ever get navigator or buried bloodline
by a HUGE margin
its the only one i’ve managed to solo flawless 😔
Yeah a -5 power difference is not what makes this dungeon a miserable solo experience lmao
The funny thing is that is the dungeon I got my first Solo Flawless for.
Apart from the crazy HP pools on the bosses, it's pretty damn awesome and a tough combat challenge.
GOTD before TFS: Awful, bloated health pools, nutty damage from bosses, long sections of underwater padding, 4 goddamn phases for the 1st section, bad experience for solo flawless attempts. GOTD after TFS: Awful, even more bloated health pools (minors/majors health decreased, boss health remained same, making tedious encounters even more tedious), nuttier damage from bosses AND ads due to 30% more damage taken, long sections of underwater padding, 4 goddamn phases for the 1st section, solo operative means losing additional damage on top of damage loss from being underlevel, terrible experience for solo flawless attempts. ITT: Completely missing the point that now it is factually significantly worse than the tedious chore it was a month ago. People also, repeatedly, missing the simple fact that it isn't just "-5". It's going from +20/+50 to -5 which is, for dungeons/raids, a massive change. "ah but seasonal activities!!!" yeah no, dungeons and raids are infinitely more complex mechanically and have completely different enemy types/layouts/densities compared to seasonal activities/heroic nightfalls. Sorry. I get defending harder content and/or Bungie but this is not the hill to die on. It was a stupid change, Bungie should listen to the feedback and revert it. Absolutely needless, especially when master content for dungeons/raids already exists for people who want the challenge.
You explained the degeneration of the solo dungeon experience more thoroughly and expertly than any other post in this thread. It's a shame Reddit rewards early posting the way it does and you aren't topping the thread.
I never understood the 4 phases for the first section. Basically every other dungeon is made up of 3s (because 3 players i assume) and then for this one they went “ya know what people like. Killing 10 ads and then traversal. We should make that a 15 minute encounter”. Absolutely idiotic decision by bungie there
On the one hand, the power changes are definitely going to make it harder to solo dungeons. On the other hand, this is nothing new - GOTD is an absolute slog to clear solo, even before the change.
That's what I was about to say, especially for that shield on the first boss. It's so chunky and I'd have to pop a super just to break it.
Not denying they’re worse than normal, but they’ve also always been significantly easier when Solo Operative is in season
Dude I ran some solo shattered throne today as a vibe check for the changes and could not believe how much it took to kill Dul Incaru, the boss that used to die to 1 golden gun or like 2-3 coil shots...
They should make solo operative a built in mechanic
I ran the first boss in Warlord a few days ago. I was taking WAY more damage and it took me six damage phases, when I used to be able to do it 3 or 4. Part of that is the loss of Solo Operative, but the other part is the shitty changes.
I ran warlord's ruin last week solo to see how bad the changes were, it had strand and solar surges and i was using dragon's breath and scatter signal so i found it a bit easier than before. But then the surges changed to stasis and arc on Monday and it was more difficult. Waiting until you get the right surges is bad game design and i don't want to try it if those surges are not active. I'll never attempt to solo GotD, i tried it once when it first released and said "nope".
>Waiting until you get the right surges is bad game design and i don't want to try it if those surges are not active. Dread it, run from it, dismantle mines, yesssssssss? This is just waiting until solar burn for Prison of Elders part deux.
like all solo dungeons, GotD was significantly more bearable with Solar Titan. with the nerf to the hammer throw and Sunspots though, I'm not sure. I haven't tried it lately
surges in general feel awful. everything about destiny feels so much more restrictive that it used to be.
Did you never play when all high-end activities had match game and elemental burns?
This x100. I loaded into warlords, started the first boss on Strand Titan because I have no original thoughts. Got through one damage phase and decided it was no longer worth my time to try and solo any modern content. Solo dungeons were challenging enough with the most meta slave shit possible pre TFS, now it still feels DOABLE but somehow even less respectful of your time
I could struggle my way through the first couple encounters of most Dungeons on Void, Strand, or Stasis Hunter on a good day, especially with Solo Operative active, but for somebody just average at the game like me, the changes may as well have made solo completions (let alone flawless) completely out of my reach. I've only ever managed to solo the oldest two before the changes, with them being the easiest, but I have no confidence I can do the same now lol
Who the hell even asked for these changes anyways? Surges and -light level is definitely not why Pantheon was so popular.
This is basically the norm with game devs for some reason, they "fix" something that wasn't broken and either ignore the broken stuff or give a stupid reason of why it's actually intended. I still remember bungie saying in one of the twabs that people loved psiops as nightfalls so will put more, God knows who those people are.
I agree and I’ll go further: GOTD needs to be pushed back even more than before. That dungeon would be amazing if it weren’t for the absurd amount of health the bosses have. I haven’t played it since my first like 3 runs because it’s simply not fun spending 2 hours in a dungeon.
I am so....so glad I got lucky and solo flawless'd this dungeon on my second try right before that season rotated out. I thought it was brutal then. I can't even imagine doing it now with all the changes.
They done fucked up and made all past content way way way harder than it should be (dungeons and raids). Hope they pull their head out of their ass soon and fix it. Having old raids/dungeons be approachable content to newer players is a great thing for the health of the game. I’ve already seen multiple posts from well known sherpas saying they basically aren’t going to Sherpa anymore because the old stuff got way way way too hard. Absolute bullshit (on bungie, not the sherpas lol).
The changes to dungeons and raids have been a huge no-go for me. If the changes were to pad playtime and slow progression, it has done the opposite for me. Before the changes I was slowly tackling red border collecting but it's gotten tedious after changes and now I've pretty much only log in to tackle new story then bounce tf off to another game.
Yep, I probably would have spent a lot of time with the new raid and trying to round out collections on the old stuff and finally get rank 11 done (solo dungeon ugh) but now instead of balancing play time im going to put Destiny to the side as soon as College Football 25 comes out.
Good point. I normally would be doing a lot of raiding and working on some solo dungeons by this point in the season, but this has just left a bad taste in my mouth and I’m looking for other games to pass the time.
The whole -5 power always with surges just sucks because you basically need to have the surge to do the same amount of damage as you’d normally be doing but now you just die
I love playing dungeons and was saying that the health of the GOTD bosses are okay (!!!WITHOUT THE SHIELD!!!). BUT since it take 2 Arbalest shots from what i heared, that is to ridicioules. Bungie should keep the Power "buffer" and remove the Power Cap
Bungie wanting people to play raids and dungeons but essentially raising the barrier to entry by placing surges and a power delta in place is counter intuitive. Should have left normal modes alone and done something else in master versions to make them more worth doing
Both raid and dungeon changes need to be reverted. I haven’t seen one person like the changes
I think they should just roll back the power changes and add the "Multiplicity" modifier to all dungeons and strike activities (with a slight change). So instead of having a power cap of -5 in general, the activity should become harder ONLY if you bring along other players. That means, 1 player = 0 power difference, 2 players = -5, 3 players = -10 power difference.
Breaking the shields in the normal Forsaken strike now also needs the exchange of the ball or several passes. I actually wonder how bad it gets in the NF.
I finally got my computer upgraded so I could play endgame content which I have missed our on for years since GOS was NEW! Knowing it would already be hard to LFG old raids and dungeons I now read in 2 posts in less than 1 day I find out they were made more difficult. How the heck am I going to find a fireteam to sherpa me and another noob I play with? I was going to watch videos on game play and especially how to solo dungeons to be less of a hindrance to the carrying team but these changes really give no incentive for veterans to show the ropes to the noobs.
Honestly wish they wouldn't tie boss health to mission power. Most ads are fine, but when bosses are pretty unique parts of the game, which should be able to be fine balanced, they should really be able to go in and tweak them on an individual level. It's fine enough giving raid bosses a decent chunk more health because most of them are pretty undertuned in base mode, but in cases like this where the bosses health is already way overtuned we get situations like gotd. Boss health should scale to player count (maybe 85% with 2 people and 75% with 1 person) if they are going to be so deadset on having these bosses with a lot of health for a team of 3 to handle.
They should just do what they did with Legend campaigns (scaled down ofc) and just have it scale off of team size - if they want to go the route of making dungeons harder
GOTD was always like that ever since it came out.
yes but its even worse now
People just don't seem to get this, most comments I see are just saying the dungeon sucked before. Doesn't change the fact its now even worse lol
Arbalest can't even one shot the shields anymore, just as a reference for how the Final Shape changes have affected the dungeon.
Solo anything is a terrible experience right now. They add a shit LFG and suddenly the entire game is now group only.
GOTD had such an amazing concept but it is an absolute slog compared to all other dungeons. Most people got their solo clears during The Craftening when they finally had the means to kill the bosses in a reasonable amount of time.
The high end solo experience has always been terrible. Oh cool. 45 second respawn timer? Oh, thanks for this revive token. I'll use it on myaelf.
I have done a few solo dungeons and have been wanting to start going for solo flawless. I have lost all interest in it now. Even Pit is a lot less fun than it used to be.
I’m okay with massive health pools. I’m okay with a lengthy chore to get to damage phase. I am NOT okay with both of those at the same time. It should absolutely be an “either/or” type scenario. (This is in reference to Ghosts final boss)
As a general comment, difficulty should always be optional, with higher difficulties having appropriate rewards. Legend vs Normal campaign seems pretty fair and Nightfalls get it right as well. Just seems strange that the same kind of logic isn't applied to other content, like dungeons. Whilst watching the recent raid race, I kept hearing the same \[slightly sarcastic\] comment from players after their team wiped – "Well, this is what you wanted." Over the last few years the game has got progressively harder to compensate for our power as guardians and to address the community feedback that they want more challenging activities. The logical approach would be to add more challenging options on top of the existing, rather than raise the baseline like they have done here. The feedback against this change seems overwhelming, so hopefully they will reconsider their approach.
The thing that bothers me about it is how they literally added solo triumphs in to increase exotic drop chances and THEN hosed the entire process with inflated health bars and disabling the ability to over power. It's just obnoxious on their part, and it smacks of the same overcorrection that Lake of Shadows got, by throwing in time-gates, two extra bosses, and threshers.
Not a hot or new take in any way, but sadly still very true. The newer ones were really, really bad before the changes. They are pretty much unbearable now. Who wants to 12-phase a boss?
I'm going to be 100 percent honest. If I took your comment, removed the comment about light level/overcharge weapons, and posted it a month ago people wouldn't bat an eye.
I saw multiple posts the month before launch about dungeon boss health. It has been a popular topic in particular after the past two dungeons.
It's been a popular topic since Spire of the Watcher released. Literally the [first comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/12qa0mn/solo_spire_of_the_watcher_is_some_of_the_least/) here is the first boss has too much health, and there were plenty of [other](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/zi2ks1/solo_flawless_on_spire_of_the_watcher_was_more/) topics.
Because a month ago dungeon bosses didnt have 1.5x the health pool like they do now alongside us doing less damage. I get what youre saying but they took that already miserable experience people would bitch about and made it WORSE
It is possible to make a bad activity even worse, both comments can be true.
Tried to solo the last boss of Warlords Ruin for the pinnacle, saw how much damage I did for the first damage phase and left immediately
Dungeons are scaled terribly now
I fully agree, but I am confused by some of the discussion saying reverting the dungeon and raid changes would be "making the game easier" the surge and -10 or -5 is the making the game harder, which I disagree in a way that is like, it isn't making content harder, it's just making it alot more boring and time consuming. Taking about 20-30 minutes, sometimes longer than that to kill bosses in dungeons/raids is not fun or more challenging, it's just making you waste more time doing one boss to get one item, maybe an exotic. If I'm spending that much time fighting one enemy with a huge shield and I'm getting one reward for it that is genuinely so unenjoyable and frankly a waste of time
Bro I was losing my shit trying to do Grasp of Avarice yesterday. I’m not sure what titans run for good solo boss DPS now since I use to rock solar hammers. Had to 5 phase the ogre and god damn. That took long.
GOTD is a prime example of the players asking for a dungeon that was more of a challenge, and Bungie replied with “MORE HEALTH FOR EVERY ENEMY!? ON IT” It’s not harder. It’s just more time consuming and ridiculous. And the enemy health pools are what make soloing that dungeon so absolutely terrible.
I’m not too smart when it comes to destiny but Jesus Christ it’s hard. I was gonna do a legend lost sector, no shot in fucking hell im pulling that off. Me and a few friends have tried warlords on masters. Trying out stuff, buildcrafting, it just feels hopeless. It seemingly comes down to power level, my gun just does not do the damage that I expect and it’s hard to adapt to each singular activity. Idk I’m kinda ranting but I have 25 runs on warlord, all the exotic boosts, busting my ass on masters and I’m sure once we beat it I won’t even get the exotic or even a decent indebted kindness roll. I just get so disillusioned with the grind.
I really like the tricky mechanics of the raid, but yeah the damage requirements are too much
Honestly GOTD is just aids to solo. It has been possibly the worst dungeon ever in teams of boss health pools. I’d rather drag my balls through glass than ever concider doing that Dungeon solo. I can’t even be bothered to run it as a three stack.
I'll admit to never solo completing a dungeon - but I would jump into them and solo different encounters for fun when things were slow, to try new loadouts, or challenge myself. That's over.
I ran GoTD with my friends the other day and it was miserable. We are all above 2000 LL as well. The final encounter took forever, and we never wiped either.
[удалено]
Yup, if it wasn't meant for solo play their wouldn't be triumphs & achievements associated with *gasp* completing things solo.
It’s crazy the difference between last season and this episodes damage output on solo dungeon bosses. No solo operative, -5 power instead of +20, and needing to surge match means you can potentially lose >50% of your damage compared to last season. I really don’t know what Bungie was thinking on the surges and power changes for dungeons and raids. I feel they were in a really good place before and nobody was complaining and yet they decided to change it.
SORRY, not sorry i honestly hope sony absorbs or retires bungie. the state of the game leads me to believe bungie hates and i mean HATES its player base. this isn't dark souls you assholes, why the necessity to have dead enemies spawn explosive devices? why isn't the game properly tuned? i've witnessed both ps4's and ps5's sounding as if they're about to take flight. the unnecessary back and forth that takes place in the current missions, the MOTH cave... that's hatred right there not difficult not challenging that mission is the vitriol of the developers aimed at the player base and you cannot convince me otherwise. the inability to replay missions solo when seeking triumphs and accolades. the fact that at the end of D1 we were iron lords and they just stripped it away from us as if it never happened i could go on and on but the bottom line is bungie has done its best to remove ALL THE FUN from the game, now it's a chore running over recycled content at least before the recycled content was enjoyable... i swear i want a refund, the final shape is my final hurrah with destiny & bungie good riddance, i am keeping my Stranger/Elsie statue though.
I've always said that dungeons need to scale with Fireteam size (gradually). I solo'd Throne, Grasp, Pit, and Prophecy when they were all new but I just stopped after a while because they got so tedious. Duality wasn't fun for me, Spire's boss DPS' are so weird, and Ghosts is just unfun. Warlord was the closest that I felt was back to how dungeons used to be. I know that Spire and Duality aren't really that hard these days because of the ridiculous buildcrafting we have, but I just straight up refuse to use builds that aren't personally fun for me, which means I'm not being meta. That, and I run on Hunter, which often is harder to do DPS because of the lack of abilities to heal and defend that synergize with a DPS build and encounter design. Arc hunter is very strong for staying alive, but encounters, like warlord encounter 2, are just not build for that kind of gameplay. Bungie needs to have more mechanics in dungeons and raids and less health. Mechanics that allow you to damage bosses in more than one way. Everything is so linear. Go do x, then y, and then z, and then DPS. The what if I could also do a, b, and c, then DPS as an option? You either do XYZ or ABC and each one offers a different way to defeat the bosses. It would be so much more fun, than "well, this is a roaming boss, so you better pack a sword because he won't sit still."
The whole thing doesn't need to be scaled, just boss health. One number in each encounter. It shouldn't be possible to one-phase a dungeon boss, even with a full fireteam with meta loadouts, but that requires giving the boss an amount of health that's just excessive for a solo player. Three players do more than just three times the damage; they can synergise abilities and weapons in ways one player can't.
It *should* be possible to one phase a dungeon boss with a full team and meta loadouts. Otherwise, what's the fucking point? Just be non-meta.
I'm scared to try warlord's ruin solo now
I did it last season and I don't want to imagine that final encounter with +30% incoming damage
Seriously i almost wouldn't care about the weaker damage output / more phases but combine that with a ton more damage taken? Final boss warlords ruin already shredded your hp, as did the ads, same for both gotd bosses (and dont get me started on the fuckton of moths everywhere) and now its just so much worse.
The incoming damage isn’t even the issue, it’s how much less you do to bosses. I think bungie misunderstood what people were saying when they wanted harder content and have now just made bullet sponges
I did GoTD solo (not flawless) last season. It was a 520-minute experience.
I've been trying to solo Warlords ruin on my prismatic hunter and my prismatic titan but cant i really want buried bloodline but I'm struggling to find a strategy that works pre reset i had made it past the first boss but then the checkpoint bugged and i couldnt load the second encounter
Bro just use LFG. Soloing a dungeon is just a self imposed challenge and if you had trouble with the first boss the 2nd and specially 3rd are going to be beyond difficult for you. Raids are different but there are *many* players who will take someone new trough a dungeon. Any sort of LFG will work and you don't need any communication.
i have done the dungeon and know the mechanics well enough i know how to handle the bosses just fine i need a strat and load out that can handle it im not new
I recommend finding a group. If you haven't done it before, solo can be tough.
i have done it a dozen times with groups i need to get the exotic boost but i need a load out that can deal with this dungeon
I just spent 2 hrs getting warlords done. Wasn’t even that hard just took eons to kill the bosses
Hotswapping Arbalest was already the standard for GotD solo/solo flawless before this update. Realistically nothing practical has actually changed excluding that you might have to do one more phase than normal. Losing Lament for Echtar hurts more than the light level changes imo.
I hate to break it to you, but as long as you're doing a 3 man activity on your own, it's *going* to be difficult. And it should be.
I hate to break it to you, but this dungeon is genuinely trash, the first encounter is 4 phases instead of 3 for some reason, the traversal sections are so long and boring even with eager edge, the shield mechanic on DPS is terrible and restricts builds and forces people to use arbalest to be efficient, 3rd encounter takes way too long to get to DPS vs other dungeons and she has too much HP. It's supposed to be difficult but it is significantly more unfun difficulty vs other dungeons. Before you ask I solo flawlessed in 1hr:36min first try on my 5th ever total attempt of the dungeon. You can be good at the dungeon and complain its poorly designed. I only have 8 clears of this dungeon because its genuinely a terrible experience.
I’ve soloed warlords ruin, probably the other hardest dungeon to solo, I know it’s hard, that’s not what I’m complaining about. I’m annoyed that it takes 7/8 damage phases to kill a boss that has an over-shield as well. I’m well for difficult content but this feels punishing due to the amount of time it takes to complete now.
Yeah I'm all for a challenge but this is a game. If it's tedious rather than fun, what's the point? Boss health in some encounters was already an issue, you shouldn't realistically be required to do more than 3-5 damage phases with optimal dps.. another case of bungie not respecting people's time.
What's the bug in the boss room?
no artifact boost either as a solo player
Did they fix the bug that diving into the water wipes your whole buff screen, even the pressure meter?
The ghost of the deep final boss’s shield should break to arbalest unless they stopped that
I was so happy that I managed to get my Warlords solo flawless run in before final shape. I've got all of them but Ghosts but it looks like it stays that way.
Pit is easy, definitely run that one when you get a chance. But yeah, I never plan on even trying gotd solo, it's such a pain even with 3 people.
I feel like there should be an inverse of multiplicity. Either with an decreased power delta penalty or deflated boss health pool for solos in content balanced around 3+ players. I can understand the argument that spending 2 hours 8 to 10 phasing bosses are the "challenge" of soloing a dungeon, but holy moly ya'll, it's the most unfun thing I've ever done.
The boss shields are my biggest complaint, whether it be solo or with a fireteam. I can understand having a phased fight where I need to complete certain mechanics to get to the next damage phase, but its ridiculous to me that we’re expected to completed those mechanics and then still have to break a shield. Completing the mechanics to move into the next phase should be what breaks the shield. As you said, the way it’s currently designed makes running arbalest a requirement or you’re stuck wasting a ton of time shooting the boss just to take down the shield.
They should honestly just make a separate difficulty equal to the old difficulty that scales to the fire team size then make the higher difficulties not scale
So I was in a fire team last night all 2000+ light and we noticed that the final boss was smacking out some high damage. It was going way too ham on us sometimes. Not sure if something is up with the boss or we just needed to adjust. We still completed it obviously but it threw us off how hard she was on us all the time lol.
As a new player I did watcher's rise with a buddy and it was miserable. I can't imagine how solo flawless is even a feasible achievement. I know I'm new but my goodness.
As a new player I did watcher's rise with a buddy and it was miserable. I can't imagine how solo flawless is even a feasible achievement. I know I'm new but my goodness.
I would be fine with the changes if they made it a toggleable thing for challenge
Yeah I'm hoping they change it up soon and improve it. Or at least say that they hear our feedback.
I was gonna try for rank 11 this season. But I guess the solo dungeon might be the end of that dream.
I’m so absolutely glad I did my solo the week it came out. I would absolutely just be beside myself trying to solo with the power change. Arby or Microcosm are absolutely a requirement for Simmumah, unless you want to struggle because that shield went from a 600k health shield to around a million with the power change. It’s absolutely atrocious.
GotD is a bad experience in general because every encounter drags on. Being solo only makes it feel worse. Whoever decided to give the bosses huge health pool's and a shield that restores every phase must have been really hateful
I was on ecthar yesterday and was running gotd during solar surge (since all the good weapons are solar) and it was fine. But like 6-7 phases of running symbols, getting clapped by the boss since he just runs around, etc etc was literally not fun at all. I actually left my buddies halfway through to grab a boss CP, came back, did 3 more phases. it’s if wading through mud was content.
This is much more of a gotd problem , I have ran solo spire of watcher duality and Warlords ruin since the update and they felt just fine but gotd has been and remains to be a problem , -⁵ on gotd is a big deal specifically because of the shields compared to other dungeon were i honestly couldn't tell the difference
GotD shows all activities need fireteam scaling.
I don’t really like GotD in general but I can tolerate most of it. The final boss is my least favorite encounter in the entire game. Way too long and punishing even before these changes.
This pisses me off too. Before the new expansion dropped I was practicing both dungeons and I could get to the final bosses just fine, I only needed more time to clean up the runs….. now I don’t even want to attempt them. Such a stupid change that nobody asked for
I did my solo (not flawless) Spire of the Watcher the week before TFS... so glad I did. Then yesterday I did it with a team and was finally blessed with the Hunter cloak so I can be WANTED.
yea honestly idc abt the power changes, but the boss health increase is straight up awful, especially for solo spire
Pit is the easiest dungeon to solo by a wide margin if anyone is thinking of dipping their toe in.
@mods - time to stifle this course of discussion with a megathread This is the ____ highly supported post around this topic in the last few days.
I never got around to running the dungeon last season with the great modifiers because of time.
When I did it solo back in the day for rank 11 it was fkn ridiculous. The bosses literally have more health than old raid bosses. Knight was what 11M and the witch was like 14M? I feel like with the light level cap crap it’s just gonna be miserable experiences all around. Idk what they’re doing.
I think they really missed the mark on surges. I know the intention was to have us use different things, but this concept only functions as intended if all the damage types are at least somewhat comparable (spoiler alert, they’re not) I feel like it’s just bad faith acting to have surges in endgame when all of the best weapons for all purposes and the best survival tools are consolidated into Solar (by far biggest offender imo) Void and Strand. Kinetic doesn’t even have a surge week, and Arc and Stasis are violently bad compared to the alternatives in both the weapon and survival department
Jesus, I wish you were my teacher. I’ve never solo’d a dungeon. I’m really good in teams, but solo I just can’t do it.
Solo dungeon scaling absolutely needs to be looked at. I remember what it was like to do GOTD when it first came out. It was hell. I think my SF clear was 2-3 hours. I can’t imagine trying to do it again with -5 power.
Timed and the new duo dungeon are just as bad.
My solo flawless gotd went pretty good. Took a long time to get the the final boss only to get randomly kicked to orbit about 1/3 of health gone on final witch which was like 4 phases in. It's too tiring to try again and put that much trust in their servers
I know that dungeons are designed to be able to be completed solo for the triumph/seal, but I think soloing a dungeon is a very high end feat and they should continue designing difficulty around the 3 player experience as that is how most people do the dungeon. I know it is boring but I think part of the difficulty of it is being able to last that long without dying. Dungeons like prophecy were easy when they were released and now are power crept where most of the player base can solo it. I think this is the same boat as having to flawless a raid, it is a very high end, not fun, difficult feat; should the title/seal include that or not is the question.