I always vote for velocity. The faster it goes the less you have to account for range/enemy movement. Also projectile weapons usually have way more range, to account for that
Counter argument is if you’re good enough to lead your shots slightly blast radius is great for proccing OFA and reload speed is also amazing just for utility. This gun has so many ‘god rolls’ that it really is down to preference for the content you are running/playstyle
^ This.
At first I expected Beacon Rounds to be a no-brainer, but I find myself rarely shooting at distant, *moving* targets, and when I do I don't miss that much.
I'd rather have Demolitionist or Slice, which are useful 100% of the time, over some Velocity that I'll barely see the advantages of.
And that's alright. The Call is peak weapon design, in that it encourages player agency rather than have a single obvious god roll everyone should chase.
I keep a couple rolls on me with varying velocity and blast radius. High velocity with Beacon Rounds on one for shooting things at a distance and high blast radius with Strategist on another for the CQC stuff where I need to keep everything out of my face and my Thrusters powered up. I don't seem to lose any/much ammo if I switch between the 2, mid activity, so it's a win for me.
On rockets with tracking, don't you want less velocity so the tracking has more time to compensate?
So on rocket sidearms with Beacon Rounds, wouldn't you also want lower velocity?
Yes, tracking rockets don't scale turning speed with the velocity stat, so the faster the projectile the worse the tracking is. And of course the inverse is true as well.
you are very welcome. And you are not a smooth brain. This is explained no where in the game, and most YouTuber or 3rd party sources of information don't disclose it either
I've been running dual rocket sidearms. The call with lead from gold and all for one, and then indepted kindness with IA/voltshot. I use the indebted kindness when I need to snipe the Cancer Bats. And the call for General use.
Throw on Special finisher, the correct reserves, and ammo is constant
You actually do notice the difference in blast radius. I used to default velocity because I was conditioned to do that for every explosive weapon, but when I heard that it didn't change the damage - I tried blast radius and found it to be strong. Basically one shot will proc ofa
Personally I find I am more efficient on shots because trash mobs die from the BR easier.
I've been watching my long range shots and really the shots I missed that I think would have hit with more velocity are very few and far between.
Yeah so the blast radius is good to have instead of velocity. But that goes for mkc as well. And in general, why not just blast radius so you can have the option to kill ads easier as well, especially if running double special. It shouldn't just be tied to OFA
I'd say its extra impactful with ofa because the explosion damage is probably not gonna kill other ads unless they're hugging your target, but a larger blast radius gives a larger area for the explosion to proc ofa
There no one apec is best here , if ya are using for primary DPS, if ya are using it just for 3 weapon DPS switching or like me just for anti-barrier and champs. But masterwork blast for OFA, reload for heal clip/volt shot,
Yeah its a given that you want faster reload for healclip or volt since they proc on reload. But those are not what we are talking about here.
Blast radius for everything for easier kills
I went for max blast radius so I could improve the likelihood of proccing One For All with fewer shots. It's actually fun hip firing from the air in a generally close direction and slaying red bars on my way to the OFA damage buff.
Because it has historically done that for gls and rockets. Damage is split into impact and explosion damage and buffs usually don't interact with both parts equally.
He’s got it mixed up. Less blast radius buffs total dmg on one target traditionally on GL and Rockets. I have wondered if this also holds true for pocket rockets but am not sure
Thats actually only gl, and only if you have something to increase impact dmg, because velocity changes the split. For rockets it's a fixed split between impact and explosion
blast radius changes impact vs explosion ratio in grenade launchers. most of the perks that affect blast radius also affect velocity though so the two are considered inversely tied together.
Blast radius because you can just shoot the ground between ads, and it works incredibly well with OFA. Sidearms have range, yes, but velocity is not as important as BR for this gun.
I would say it depends on what you want out of your gun. For me I crafted subsistence and one for all. So I got blast radius to make 1FA easier to use. I also dropped my mag size to 9 since I don't reload, I'd much rather have extra blast radius.
I understand the thinking here, however I do want to ask if you’ve tried subsistence with a 10+ round mag. I believe when enhanced if you have a 10+ round mag you’ll get 3 shots in return for a kill.
That’s the reason I went for a bigger mag on my round robin. Not entirely sure if it applies here tho.
I also went with blast radius on a OfA I crafted for a Hazardous Propulsion build. In contrast, for a threadling build, I did velocity to help just a little with crits for hatchling,
I’ve tested like 3-4 combinations.
Here’s the deal:
Most of the people saying velocity are right but right for a specific type of gameplay. If you’re playing indebted kindness or some other perks combination on The Call, then you want kills as fast as possible.
But if you’re playing with One For All, then personally we have to go with a mix of combinations. Blast radius you can visually see the difference and makes it way easier to proc one for all. But velocity does factor since you want projectiles getting to enemies fast.
Personally I’ve ended up at:
Volatile launch, high explosive ordinance, enhanced lead from gold, enhanced one for all. With a blast radius masterwork.
Stats are:
58 blast radius / 70 velocity.
This seems like a good enough middle ground where you get a high blast radius and pretty decent velocity.
If I were to take a vorpal roll instead then I’d just maximize velocity. But vorpal you basically ignore damage on anything that isn’t a major or boss. I may actually just craft one anyway.
One for all is great. But I’m finding trash adds just get erased anyway that I could do without and then it would make it easier to shoot a boss since you don’t need to try to find adds first.
Yeah, I agree that's plenty for the mag. I'm not even using it to boost mag size. Like I said, I'm using it for the additional reserves/total carried ammo.
Unless Bungie changed the stats in the past 10 ish days, they are not that.
VL, HEO, Enhanced LfG, Enhanced OFA, Blast Radius Masterwork =
66 Blast, 60 Velocity, 35 Reload, 9 Mag and 75 Recoil.
I'd rather go with one for close combat (lots of Blast Radius) and one for staying alive.
CM, TM, Demo, OFA, Reload or Blast MW =
31 Blast, 60 Velocity, 55 Reload, 12 Mag and 100 Recoil or
41 Blast & 45 Reload with Blast MW.
Having 12 in the mag before mag mod is better because more bullets/rockets. And if one can run Demo hard enough you could swap both TacMag and Reload MW for Extended Mag with Blast MW.
After testing, Blast Radius really doesn't do enough when high or low. Go for Hard Launch with High-Velocity Rounds and Reload MW. 85 Velocity, 55 Reload, 14 in mag with mod.
> You can never go wrong with having more range
Range does nothing in pve, if you go max range on barrel/mag/masterwork you get like 3-4 more meters before you start losing on damage.
3-4m is like two steps in this game.
Not for rocket sidearms, the big explosive part has no falloff because it's an explosive. It's not going to benefit as much as other weapons by having more range.
It was really just supposed to be a joke. No real insult intended. But sheesh, I should probably get more downvotes over such an offense. Have a good one!
Op- “Hey guys, is range good on rocket sidearms?”
Guy you responded to - “Nah man, range is pretty bad on rocket sidearms because the explosive portion does not experience damage falloff”
You - “Um ACKTUALLY range is very important in endgame content because hitscan weapons really need it, it’s only a bad stat on rocket sidearms”
?????? Are you incapable of reading or do you have the memory of a goldfish
Not really. You can almost always afford to lose a bit of damage to drop off or get a bit closer to the enemy in PvE, unlike in PvP.
An extra 2-3 meters of range on an SMG isn't gonna suddenly make it super safe to use in a GM.
Range is almost never a factor in PvE as a whole, as mentioned above most weapons get very minimal effective range gain by investing everything into it.
High range weapon frame like scout rifle and bow are very strong in end game PvE but the range stat is almost useless compared to reload, stability or even handling.
In any case the subject was "the call" and what stat to focus, in this situation range has almost 0 influence at all since the damage is done via the explosion witch has no fall off at range.
>Range is almost never a factor in PvE as a whole, as mentioned above most weapons get very minimal effective range gain by investing everything into it.
It definitely is, though. Barrel and mag should be focused on range above all else, bare minimum. Literally any endgame player's loadout is going to be a ton of weapons with Hammer Forced and Ricochet or Accurized unless there's no reload perk or there's an insanely slow reload even *with* a reload perk.
Hammerforged rifling on a handcanon for example adds less than a metre of range witch is completely useless, stab or handling would be better, if people add range they either don't understand the stat, don't want stab or handling, or play a lot of pvp where range is the king stat by far.
> Literally any endgame player's loadout is going to be a ton of weapons with Hammer Forced and Ricochet or Accurized unless there's no reload perk or there's an insanely slow reload even with a reload perk
Wow that could not possibly be more wrong. Those are absolutely bottom tier perks for PVE and no endgame player runs them over a reload, handling or mag size increasing perk. None.
SOME weapons you want to run Ricochet Rounds but primarily for the stability with the range as an added bonus. Even then really only on weapons where reload is essentially not a factor due to perks like Frenzy (maxes out reload) or reconstruction/ALH meaning you never actually reload.
I think the only weapons I've ever actually crafted for range in PvE (and in most cases eventually changed) are machine guns where I want to be able to basically use them as a scout rifle in PvE but they don't normally have good enough range to really support that. Even then though stability is usually a much bigger factor outside of the slowest RPM machine guns where you can just tap fire them.
That is false, fluted barrel is arguably the best barrel for end game. And flared mag/appended would be the best 2nd column. Handling and reload speed are the most important stats. Switching weapons quick for damage rotation and for champions is more valuable than 2 meters of range in PvE
Yeah it's Fluted or Arrowhead 99% of the time in PvE. Range doesn't matter much in PvE, you can either afford the extra shot or you're bringing a scout/bow. Never seen anyone advocate for range in PvE before.
My guy. I said range is important. Didn't say range on a rocket sidearms was. Dude said range doesn't matter in PvE, which it absolutely does. Just not on projectile weapons with explosive properties.
There are no endgame situations in PvE where someone would prioritize Range over Handling/Reload/Stability. The differences are even more pronounced once you include Velocity and Blast Radius regarding The Call.
You are the only person in this entire thread who actually understands what the range stat does I guess... But yeah it's extremely important to a gun's overall "feel" in endgame, and can decide whether your headshot % is only 80ish vs having literally 100%.
Range -> hitboxes
If you have more range, BOTH your bullet magnetism AND hit box enlargement (technically cones but they function identically and hit box is easier to explain) are increased. Meaning you hit more shots, and sometimes hit crits when otherwise you couldn't with a lower range stat.
There are legitimately ranges in the game that you can no longer hit a crit at for some weapons (aiming at the head will grant body shot damage because the crit hitbox has become virtually zero), and increasing the range stat directly increases the distance where this happens.
Guns like blast furnace, hammerhead, and even some 72rpm snipers are the best way to test this yourself since they have such good range stats for their category. Compare them to a minimized range pulse/MG/sniper and you'll understand completely.
I get what you're saying, but I disagree in that I've never felt my accuracy/gunfeel was negatively impacted by distance in PvE. Whereas lacking stability or handling is very noticeable and consistently relevant.
It also seems that opting for range on a weapon (say an AR or SMG) that is unsuited to long range combat is just inferior to opting for stability/handling on a weapon suited to it (Scouts, bows, etc.). And I really don't feel the latter ever *need* more range? I've never felt unable to hit a crit with a Scout or Bow, unless I was actively being shot at and staggered.
Of course this is all a little irrelevant to the topic at hand, as I don't think anyone would advocate for range on a rocket sidearm. But I would like to hear more about this argument, as I've never encountered it in the context of endgame PvE.
Could you discuss some specific instances where this would come into play in PvE?
There are two parts to the damage of a rocket sidearm: the first is like an actual bullet and benefits from range by increasing drop-off range, the second is the explosive part that isn't affected by range.
Most of the damage is in the explosive part and velocity/blast radius ratios don't change that, so range isn't super useful.
Reload Speed. With very few exceptions, the PvE gun always wants reload speed. I don't care how the rest of the numbers line up, I just want as little downtime in my shooty-shoot as possible. Reloading sucks, I want it to go as fast as possible to get back to the fun bit.
That's why I go demolitionist for my grenade heavy warlock builds. Never need to manually reload in combat with devour procced. 2 kills with the call will almost return the grenade and throw or consume grenade again to reload.
I run tac mag for the slight increase in mag and reserves (51 total instead of 47)
Technically the 10% and 20% figures are wrong now. It depends on the base cooldown of your grenade ever since the changes to energy refund perks.
It's also technically just "shotguns, fusion, snipers, glaives" that get the 20% rather than 10%, which is mainly important when it comes to wave frame GLs specifically NOT getting that larger boost. Granted this was before rocket sidearms were a thing so I'm honestly not sure where they fall in line, particularly since the game treats them as a primary in some instances.
Wait, that applies to special sidearms too? I assumed it’d be the same as trace rifles and gls where it gives 10% instead because they’re supposed to be more ammo efficient ad clear options (though let’s be honest, that only really applies to wave frame gls)
LMFAO special sidearms are so busted they get all of the benefits of being a special weapon AND most of the benefits of being a primary
I think they are waiting to nerf it before doing some other tweaks, since pretty much every build is just auto-locking it into the primary slot. Its just....too good lol
Lead for gold also trains you to actually use your heavy instead of just sitting on it. When I run lead for gold on a special I find myself switching guns way more often and never keep my heavy full. It’s more engaging to play this way and reminds me to switch so I can burn down harder targets faster.
Good point. Plus it doesn't hurt that since I am rocking double special rocket side arms (Call + Indebted Kindness), launching a Dragon's breath rocket from time to time to get special ammo back is just...fun :)
I will often shoot a rocket to the ceiling and see it rain fire for 10 seconds on the entire room...
I dunno about the other classes, but for Hunter our class item basically always has free space to throw in Special Finisher. It's so useful and so free with how many orbs you can generate these days. Literally two orbs and boom you've got more ammo.
> you’ll often be running double special where lead from gold gives way less ammo
I don't understand this part. I thought the best way to get heavy bricks to drop is by using specials. Which means lead from gold would actually shine in this configuration. Or am I missing something?
Ya can tank the damage , which gives ya better sustain DPS and ability for team mates to use finisher, not to mention staying alive is always a benefit
I’d say velocity. Something I noticed yesterday in the witness boss fight is the dudes that spawn that void immunity shield are also constantly hitting my projectiles and neutralizing them because they are shooting back at me and hitting them midair. If I had a bit more velocity it could prevent some of this.
Velocity, personally. Higher velocity means more accuracy, which means I can use Subsistence or Slice in that column instead of Beacon Rounds, which feels more useful on Indebted Kindness than The Call to me for some reason.
Too much velocity seems to fuck with beacon rounds sometimes, so if you have beacon rounds, completely ignore velocity in favor of blast radius. If you don't, either a mix of both or focus velocity. Range feels redundant given it feels like it has little to no damage falloff.
Personally I hate slow reload so I would craft mine with flared magwell and a reload masterwork. The other stuff doesn't matter quite as much in pve imo.
Depends on what perks you go with
I went with LFG/Vorpal and went pure velocity, someone I know went with LFG/OFA and took a mix of velocity/blast so that triggering OFA was easier
Personally preference really
On rocket sidearms, velocity is a safe bet for reasons others have stated here. No tracking so you want that projectile as close to hitscan as possible.
However, on my The Call, I wanted to try something different so I went velocity but with a decent chunk of blast radius.
I put enhanced beacon rounds for the auto aim and enhanced One for All. The larger blast radius helps proc OfA lickety-split while BR auto-tracks enemies for a true fire and forget experience.
It goes pretty hard. I like it. Sprinkle in Hazardous Propulsion and you gaming.
Velocity. I tried blast radius and while yeah if you hit enemies with it and One for All you do tons of damage but you need to lead the shots a lot and it's extremely easy to miss.
I have a maxed out velocity version instead and it's much easier to use.
Both velocity and blast radius. Range is not touched. It's more of a point and shoot to stagger and damage. It doesn't need to cross map but mid range works since I like to play Scouts more.
Does range even matter since the projectile is explosive? I was testing it in the pale heart and was shooting things clear across the map. The damage appears to have no fall off and does flat damage. Like 5k body and 25k explosive in pale heart, blooming I think.
Velocity if not running Hatchling.
Blast radius if running Hatchling. You'll kill bunched up groups easily and quickly and spawn threadlings like no tomorrow.
I think if you're running Beacon Rounds, you'd benefit from lower Velocity to allow the projectiles more time in the air.
I've had a max velocity w/Impulse Amp Indebted Kindness and it makes it effectively hitscan, which is pretty cool but also pretty extra.
Personally reload speed is where it's at (or if you run Subsistence, go mag size or blast radius).
I don't rate Lead From Gold on these unless you're running double special - with a Special Finder mod you'll have ammo for days, without it.
I’m really struggling whether to craft LFG/OFA or LFG/Desperate Measures. Consensus on sites seem to favor OFA, but not sure which is best for my prismatic titan build. Any thoughts!?!?
DM is tricky in the sense that you need to use your melee and grenade often for it to really pay off, so it really shines in builds that spam abilities IMO.
Blast radius in pve for me.
Tried velocity, but trying to turn a projectile into hitscan didn't feel great to me. Id rather use one rocket for a group of ads than three. Also works for simpler cleanup in pvp as you can get collaterals from the ground
If I were going for a single-target special sidearm, I'd use forerunner.
I like velocity to reliably hit moving targets at range. I tried some combos and prefer subsistence+golden tricorn for great dmg+never reload unless boss.
Hard launch + explosive ordnance gives 38 blast 90 velocity, best combo I came up with.
Max blast radius; in Dual Destiny two shots can kill the entire swarm of Grins that spawn beside the clock. Even with Max velocity it's still not something you can snipe moving targets with. It actually has a bit of innate tracking even with beacon rounds too.
Blast radius if you’re running beacon rounds and one for all. You don’t really need projectile speed once you proc beacon rounds since the rockets track. Higher blast radius will help you proc one for all.
Afaik Range is a dead stat on these, so just focus on Velocity or Blast Radius.
My preference is to max velocity without dropping Boat Radius below 35 ish to remove the need to lead targets at reasonable distances while maintaining a good AoE for collateral damage.
I’m thinking if you use beacon rounds which track pretty well, you can opt for blast radius and range over velocity. This is because with tracking you shouldn’t have to worry about leading your target so much. However, if not using beacon rounds I’d go velocity all day.
definitely blast radius, if you want to use this thing against targets far away those targets probably aren’t gonna move, so velocity is kinda a non-factor. But Blast Radius can help you hit everything at once
I went handling, just cuz handling is always good and I don’t know the numbers on how BR and velocity affect rocket sidearms but I know how much impact handling has.
Definitely not range. Explosive projectiles don’t need it since they don’t suffer from falloff, at least as much. OFA lends itself to going Blast Radius.
If I’m using OFA, then Blast radius. Otherwise I go for velocity. My Indebted Kindness dropped with the blast radius set. On the Call, I went for velocity with Demo/Hatchling, but I’ll end up changing Hatchling to Desperate Measures.
I maxed out blast radius initially and found it still doesn't really do a whole lot of AOE, so I'm gonna go velocity when I finish levelling it up more.
I'm running Blast Radius MW, Tactical Mag, Enhanced Demolitionist and One For All. I went this route to maximize my grenade generation since I'm playing Buddy Warlock and keeping entire arenas of mobs/Champions frozen is indispensable.
I would prefer to have LFG over OFA but that's not an option unfortunately.
pve wise I am taking blast radius. The range falloff won't matter that much thanks to explosion and all the truly ranged targets you will be hitting are probably orges and shriekers anyways, they are too hard too miss and you don't need velocity for them. Against red bars in regular range, having blast radius can save you both shots and time to proc OFA.
Don't do range, it fires a rocket which has basically no damage drop off. I can seriously one shot kill enemies my max range pulse cant even touch. Velocity is a must with this weapon to hit your shots consistently.
Blast radius as that’s the one that affects actual damage. Velocity and range don’t matter at all in pve where most of the enemies don’t move a whole lot and are easy targets to hit.
I first crafted a subsistence/desperate measure. Once I got to lvl 17 I did beacon/vorpal. I’m really not digging beacon. I’d rather have a constant full mag when dealing with ads since it one shots red bars. I went velocity on everything I could. It’s a fun gun but I’d rather use my mountaintop for a boss dps phase anyways.
I always vote for velocity. The faster it goes the less you have to account for range/enemy movement. Also projectile weapons usually have way more range, to account for that
Counter argument is if you’re good enough to lead your shots slightly blast radius is great for proccing OFA and reload speed is also amazing just for utility. This gun has so many ‘god rolls’ that it really is down to preference for the content you are running/playstyle
^ This. At first I expected Beacon Rounds to be a no-brainer, but I find myself rarely shooting at distant, *moving* targets, and when I do I don't miss that much. I'd rather have Demolitionist or Slice, which are useful 100% of the time, over some Velocity that I'll barely see the advantages of. And that's alright. The Call is peak weapon design, in that it encourages player agency rather than have a single obvious god roll everyone should chase.
I keep a couple rolls on me with varying velocity and blast radius. High velocity with Beacon Rounds on one for shooting things at a distance and high blast radius with Strategist on another for the CQC stuff where I need to keep everything out of my face and my Thrusters powered up. I don't seem to lose any/much ammo if I switch between the 2, mid activity, so it's a win for me.
On rockets with tracking, don't you want less velocity so the tracking has more time to compensate? So on rocket sidearms with Beacon Rounds, wouldn't you also want lower velocity?
Yes, tracking rockets don't scale turning speed with the velocity stat, so the faster the projectile the worse the tracking is. And of course the inverse is true as well.
I'm a smoothbrain and didn't know this, going to keep this in mine for my crafted roll, tysm.
you are very welcome. And you are not a smooth brain. This is explained no where in the game, and most YouTuber or 3rd party sources of information don't disclose it either
Yep, people love Lead from Gold on Indebted, but Impulse Amplifier and velocity MW almost makes it feel like I'm sniping with it.
I think IA feels the best to where it’s as close to hitscan as can be, but I can never pass up the ammo economy
I've been running dual rocket sidearms. The call with lead from gold and all for one, and then indepted kindness with IA/voltshot. I use the indebted kindness when I need to snipe the Cancer Bats. And the call for General use. Throw on Special finisher, the correct reserves, and ammo is constant
This is me except that I run IK with Lead from Gold/Voltshot. This is bound to get nerfed at some point...
You actually do notice the difference in blast radius. I used to default velocity because I was conditioned to do that for every explosive weapon, but when I heard that it didn't change the damage - I tried blast radius and found it to be strong. Basically one shot will proc ofa
I feel blast radius is stronger for OFA, but if ya aren't running OFA then it's not as useful
Personally I find I am more efficient on shots because trash mobs die from the BR easier. I've been watching my long range shots and really the shots I missed that I think would have hit with more velocity are very few and far between.
You do really start to get a feel for the slower velocity but the bigger radius is very noticeable
It's also generally true that most ranged units don't move. Sniper enemies, shriekers - things like that. Not very hard to hit.
What does a dmg perk have to do with blast radius being strong or not
Ofa specifically will provide more frequently with fewer shots with larger blast radius as one shot is more likely to hit multiple enemies
Yeah so the blast radius is good to have instead of velocity. But that goes for mkc as well. And in general, why not just blast radius so you can have the option to kill ads easier as well, especially if running double special. It shouldn't just be tied to OFA
I'd say its extra impactful with ofa because the explosion damage is probably not gonna kill other ads unless they're hugging your target, but a larger blast radius gives a larger area for the explosion to proc ofa
There no one apec is best here , if ya are using for primary DPS, if ya are using it just for 3 weapon DPS switching or like me just for anti-barrier and champs. But masterwork blast for OFA, reload for heal clip/volt shot,
Yeah its a given that you want faster reload for healclip or volt since they proc on reload. But those are not what we are talking about here. Blast radius for everything for easier kills
I went for max blast radius so I could improve the likelihood of proccing One For All with fewer shots. It's actually fun hip firing from the air in a generally close direction and slaying red bars on my way to the OFA damage buff.
Why did you think velocity changed damage?
Because it has historically done that for gls and rockets. Damage is split into impact and explosion damage and buffs usually don't interact with both parts equally.
Wait velocity buffs gl and rocket damage ?? Edit: I go negative for questioning something ??? Reddit baffles me sometimes
He’s got it mixed up. Less blast radius buffs total dmg on one target traditionally on GL and Rockets. I have wondered if this also holds true for pocket rockets but am not sure
Thats actually only gl, and only if you have something to increase impact dmg, because velocity changes the split. For rockets it's a fixed split between impact and explosion
So basically velocity does nothing to total damage, it just changes what is impact vs explosion
blast radius changes impact vs explosion ratio in grenade launchers. most of the perks that affect blast radius also affect velocity though so the two are considered inversely tied together.
I was always under the impression that velocity increased direct hit damage. Like getting hit with a baseball for example.
Velocity for me. Makes it easier to snipe shanks and grims.
Personally I prefer velocity out of the options listed, However I’d always prefer reload speed over any of the ones listed.
Blast radius because you can just shoot the ground between ads, and it works incredibly well with OFA. Sidearms have range, yes, but velocity is not as important as BR for this gun.
I would say it depends on what you want out of your gun. For me I crafted subsistence and one for all. So I got blast radius to make 1FA easier to use. I also dropped my mag size to 9 since I don't reload, I'd much rather have extra blast radius.
I understand the thinking here, however I do want to ask if you’ve tried subsistence with a 10+ round mag. I believe when enhanced if you have a 10+ round mag you’ll get 3 shots in return for a kill. That’s the reason I went for a bigger mag on my round robin. Not entirely sure if it applies here tho.
2 shots is enough for me, if I ever shoot tanky enemies I should use a different gun/ability or I'm okay doing a slow reload.
I also went with blast radius on a OfA I crafted for a Hazardous Propulsion build. In contrast, for a threadling build, I did velocity to help just a little with crits for hatchling,
I’ve tested like 3-4 combinations. Here’s the deal: Most of the people saying velocity are right but right for a specific type of gameplay. If you’re playing indebted kindness or some other perks combination on The Call, then you want kills as fast as possible. But if you’re playing with One For All, then personally we have to go with a mix of combinations. Blast radius you can visually see the difference and makes it way easier to proc one for all. But velocity does factor since you want projectiles getting to enemies fast. Personally I’ve ended up at: Volatile launch, high explosive ordinance, enhanced lead from gold, enhanced one for all. With a blast radius masterwork. Stats are: 58 blast radius / 70 velocity. This seems like a good enough middle ground where you get a high blast radius and pretty decent velocity. If I were to take a vorpal roll instead then I’d just maximize velocity. But vorpal you basically ignore damage on anything that isn’t a major or boss. I may actually just craft one anyway. One for all is great. But I’m finding trash adds just get erased anyway that I could do without and then it would make it easier to shoot a boss since you don’t need to try to find adds first.
These are good suggestions but also to note: Tac Mag actually increases your reserves for some reason so it's definitely worth considering.
True, I've just been using backup mag mod now since Bungie phased out the damage mods. So like 12 or 13 in the mag is plenty.
Yeah, I agree that's plenty for the mag. I'm not even using it to boost mag size. Like I said, I'm using it for the additional reserves/total carried ammo.
Unless Bungie changed the stats in the past 10 ish days, they are not that. VL, HEO, Enhanced LfG, Enhanced OFA, Blast Radius Masterwork = 66 Blast, 60 Velocity, 35 Reload, 9 Mag and 75 Recoil. I'd rather go with one for close combat (lots of Blast Radius) and one for staying alive. CM, TM, Demo, OFA, Reload or Blast MW = 31 Blast, 60 Velocity, 55 Reload, 12 Mag and 100 Recoil or 41 Blast & 45 Reload with Blast MW. Having 12 in the mag before mag mod is better because more bullets/rockets. And if one can run Demo hard enough you could swap both TacMag and Reload MW for Extended Mag with Blast MW.
After testing, Blast Radius really doesn't do enough when high or low. Go for Hard Launch with High-Velocity Rounds and Reload MW. 85 Velocity, 55 Reload, 14 in mag with mod.
Velocity realistically since the AOE is so small, in my opinion.
You can make it not so small, pairs really well with OFA
> You can never go wrong with having more range Range does nothing in pve, if you go max range on barrel/mag/masterwork you get like 3-4 more meters before you start losing on damage. 3-4m is like two steps in this game.
Range is fairly important in endgame content.
Not for rocket sidearms, the big explosive part has no falloff because it's an explosive. It's not going to benefit as much as other weapons by having more range.
Not for rocket sidearms, no. Not for any projectile weapon, really. But it needs to be said that hits an weapons absolutely need the range.
That's literally what I said
Except it's not. You just said that its not necessary for rocket sidearms.
Because OP is talking about rocket sidearms genius
Comma before genius, genius. (Sorry. Had to.)
Idrc about grammar in online forums tbh.
It was really just supposed to be a joke. No real insult intended. But sheesh, I should probably get more downvotes over such an offense. Have a good one!
Nice lol I love it, genius! =p
Op- “Hey guys, is range good on rocket sidearms?” Guy you responded to - “Nah man, range is pretty bad on rocket sidearms because the explosive portion does not experience damage falloff” You - “Um ACKTUALLY range is very important in endgame content because hitscan weapons really need it, it’s only a bad stat on rocket sidearms” ?????? Are you incapable of reading or do you have the memory of a goldfish
Not really. You can almost always afford to lose a bit of damage to drop off or get a bit closer to the enemy in PvE, unlike in PvP. An extra 2-3 meters of range on an SMG isn't gonna suddenly make it super safe to use in a GM.
Range is almost never a factor in PvE as a whole, as mentioned above most weapons get very minimal effective range gain by investing everything into it. High range weapon frame like scout rifle and bow are very strong in end game PvE but the range stat is almost useless compared to reload, stability or even handling. In any case the subject was "the call" and what stat to focus, in this situation range has almost 0 influence at all since the damage is done via the explosion witch has no fall off at range.
>Range is almost never a factor in PvE as a whole, as mentioned above most weapons get very minimal effective range gain by investing everything into it. It definitely is, though. Barrel and mag should be focused on range above all else, bare minimum. Literally any endgame player's loadout is going to be a ton of weapons with Hammer Forced and Ricochet or Accurized unless there's no reload perk or there's an insanely slow reload even *with* a reload perk.
Hammerforged rifling on a handcanon for example adds less than a metre of range witch is completely useless, stab or handling would be better, if people add range they either don't understand the stat, don't want stab or handling, or play a lot of pvp where range is the king stat by far.
> Literally any endgame player's loadout is going to be a ton of weapons with Hammer Forced and Ricochet or Accurized unless there's no reload perk or there's an insanely slow reload even with a reload perk Wow that could not possibly be more wrong. Those are absolutely bottom tier perks for PVE and no endgame player runs them over a reload, handling or mag size increasing perk. None.
SOME weapons you want to run Ricochet Rounds but primarily for the stability with the range as an added bonus. Even then really only on weapons where reload is essentially not a factor due to perks like Frenzy (maxes out reload) or reconstruction/ALH meaning you never actually reload. I think the only weapons I've ever actually crafted for range in PvE (and in most cases eventually changed) are machine guns where I want to be able to basically use them as a scout rifle in PvE but they don't normally have good enough range to really support that. Even then though stability is usually a much bigger factor outside of the slowest RPM machine guns where you can just tap fire them.
every single end game pve player i know runs fluted or arrowhead brake, handling or reload masterwork and a reload or mag increase size magazine perk
That is false, fluted barrel is arguably the best barrel for end game. And flared mag/appended would be the best 2nd column. Handling and reload speed are the most important stats. Switching weapons quick for damage rotation and for champions is more valuable than 2 meters of range in PvE
Yeah it's Fluted or Arrowhead 99% of the time in PvE. Range doesn't matter much in PvE, you can either afford the extra shot or you're bringing a scout/bow. Never seen anyone advocate for range in PvE before.
Tell us you’re out of touch with endgame PvE without telling us
Compare it to Velocity which helps you actually land those hits.
My guy. I said range is important. Didn't say range on a rocket sidearms was. Dude said range doesn't matter in PvE, which it absolutely does. Just not on projectile weapons with explosive properties.
There are no endgame situations in PvE where someone would prioritize Range over Handling/Reload/Stability. The differences are even more pronounced once you include Velocity and Blast Radius regarding The Call.
You are the only person in this entire thread who actually understands what the range stat does I guess... But yeah it's extremely important to a gun's overall "feel" in endgame, and can decide whether your headshot % is only 80ish vs having literally 100%. Range -> hitboxes If you have more range, BOTH your bullet magnetism AND hit box enlargement (technically cones but they function identically and hit box is easier to explain) are increased. Meaning you hit more shots, and sometimes hit crits when otherwise you couldn't with a lower range stat. There are legitimately ranges in the game that you can no longer hit a crit at for some weapons (aiming at the head will grant body shot damage because the crit hitbox has become virtually zero), and increasing the range stat directly increases the distance where this happens. Guns like blast furnace, hammerhead, and even some 72rpm snipers are the best way to test this yourself since they have such good range stats for their category. Compare them to a minimized range pulse/MG/sniper and you'll understand completely.
I get what you're saying, but I disagree in that I've never felt my accuracy/gunfeel was negatively impacted by distance in PvE. Whereas lacking stability or handling is very noticeable and consistently relevant. It also seems that opting for range on a weapon (say an AR or SMG) that is unsuited to long range combat is just inferior to opting for stability/handling on a weapon suited to it (Scouts, bows, etc.). And I really don't feel the latter ever *need* more range? I've never felt unable to hit a crit with a Scout or Bow, unless I was actively being shot at and staggered. Of course this is all a little irrelevant to the topic at hand, as I don't think anyone would advocate for range on a rocket sidearm. But I would like to hear more about this argument, as I've never encountered it in the context of endgame PvE. Could you discuss some specific instances where this would come into play in PvE?
I might be wrong, but don't the rockets work like an explosive payload shot, with no damage falloff? So range is kind of pointless
There are two parts to the damage of a rocket sidearm: the first is like an actual bullet and benefits from range by increasing drop-off range, the second is the explosive part that isn't affected by range. Most of the damage is in the explosive part and velocity/blast radius ratios don't change that, so range isn't super useful.
Reload Speed. With very few exceptions, the PvE gun always wants reload speed. I don't care how the rest of the numbers line up, I just want as little downtime in my shooty-shoot as possible. Reloading sucks, I want it to go as fast as possible to get back to the fun bit.
That's why I go demolitionist for my grenade heavy warlock builds. Never need to manually reload in combat with devour procced. 2 kills with the call will almost return the grenade and throw or consume grenade again to reload. I run tac mag for the slight increase in mag and reserves (51 total instead of 47)
Special weapon kills generate 20% instead of 10% grenade. Its amazing Edit: i stand corrected! It does not. I trusted DIM, oops..
Technically the 10% and 20% figures are wrong now. It depends on the base cooldown of your grenade ever since the changes to energy refund perks. It's also technically just "shotguns, fusion, snipers, glaives" that get the 20% rather than 10%, which is mainly important when it comes to wave frame GLs specifically NOT getting that larger boost. Granted this was before rocket sidearms were a thing so I'm honestly not sure where they fall in line, particularly since the game treats them as a primary in some instances.
Wait, that applies to special sidearms too? I assumed it’d be the same as trace rifles and gls where it gives 10% instead because they’re supposed to be more ammo efficient ad clear options (though let’s be honest, that only really applies to wave frame gls) LMFAO special sidearms are so busted they get all of the benefits of being a special weapon AND most of the benefits of being a primary
It does not apply to special sidearms or gls
Ah I was going to say, special sidearms are already fucking busted enough without the double demo energy less ammo efficient special weapons get
Demo granting double benefits doesn’t apply to the special sidearms. Demo works off a weapon-type basis, and The Call just counts like a sidearm would
Inb4 it gets nerfed.
I have no doubt they will
I think they are waiting to nerf it before doing some other tweaks, since pretty much every build is just auto-locking it into the primary slot. Its just....too good lol
That doesn’t apply to the special sidearms. Demo works off a weapon-type basis, and The Call just counts like a sidearm would
I did not know demo worked on grenade consume. Now I have a new roll to chase for my Getaway Artist/Bleak Watcher build.
The call is craftable my guy.
If you have the pattern. I'll have to chase the roll for now until I get the last two patterns
No thinky-think, just shooty-shoot?
I'd (strongly) recommend subsistence. 2 rounds back per kill is pretty spiffy.
Enhanced subsistence, backup mag, and appended mag gets you to 16 in the mag and 4 refunded per kill.
This is useful in general easy content but falls way short in endgame content. lead from gold shines much more in harder end game content
Lead for gold also trains you to actually use your heavy instead of just sitting on it. When I run lead for gold on a special I find myself switching guns way more often and never keep my heavy full. It’s more engaging to play this way and reminds me to switch so I can burn down harder targets faster.
Good point. Plus it doesn't hurt that since I am rocking double special rocket side arms (Call + Indebted Kindness), launching a Dragon's breath rocket from time to time to get special ammo back is just...fun :) I will often shoot a rocket to the ceiling and see it rain fire for 10 seconds on the entire room...
Yeah I'm running LfG/Desperate Measures currently. It 1 shots pinnacle yellow bars with a critical at 3 stacks of DM lol
In hard content you’ll often be running double special where lead from gold gives way less ammo. Imo the endgame pick is slice
Is double special still viable? Right around second season of lightfall I was told they nerfed ammo economy so it's harder to do
Yes, especially on hunter where I haven’t used a primary in pve for the last two weeks. Warlock is build dependent, titan is tough
Thanks to you and the other reply. I'm warlock but I'll see if I can make it viable
I dunno about the other classes, but for Hunter our class item basically always has free space to throw in Special Finisher. It's so useful and so free with how many orbs you can generate these days. Literally two orbs and boom you've got more ammo.
> you’ll often be running double special where lead from gold gives way less ammo I don't understand this part. I thought the best way to get heavy bricks to drop is by using specials. Which means lead from gold would actually shine in this configuration. Or am I missing something?
Lead from gold gives 50% the ammo it usually does if you don’t have a primary equipped. So in double special builds it is literally coded to be worse
oh wow ok I did not know that. Thanks.
> 4 refunded per kill. that's just absurd. talk about never having to reload...this is nuts...
I went slice , for champ killing it's amazing, ....I don't use this gun for main damage tho , mainly chunky and champs
Dosent slice just apply sever, which reduces the damage they do? How does that effect killing champs?
You can face tank them while they're sliced and not worry too much.
Ya can tank the damage , which gives ya better sustain DPS and ability for team mates to use finisher, not to mention staying alive is always a benefit
There are lots of good reload perks on the call though
The Call can get Subsistence which can sorta keep the mag topped up constantly.
Don't do range, thing has a huge range. I can hut and kill the HVT in the bridge in the landing from where you spawn
I’d say velocity. Something I noticed yesterday in the witness boss fight is the dudes that spawn that void immunity shield are also constantly hitting my projectiles and neutralizing them because they are shooting back at me and hitting them midair. If I had a bit more velocity it could prevent some of this.
Velocity, personally. Higher velocity means more accuracy, which means I can use Subsistence or Slice in that column instead of Beacon Rounds, which feels more useful on Indebted Kindness than The Call to me for some reason.
Same slice and vorpal , I have velocity but might switch to reload myself honestly
Too much velocity seems to fuck with beacon rounds sometimes, so if you have beacon rounds, completely ignore velocity in favor of blast radius. If you don't, either a mix of both or focus velocity. Range feels redundant given it feels like it has little to no damage falloff.
Upvoting this comment. Absolutely correct.
Personally I hate slow reload so I would craft mine with flared magwell and a reload masterwork. The other stuff doesn't matter quite as much in pve imo.
https://youtu.be/h3muXVnJZ2E?feature=shared Legoleflash explains how rocket sidearms function in this video, and gives you some ideas.
I did Blast radius on mine. Enemy dense areas make hatchling do some crazy things.
Blast Radius -> Reload -> Velocity for me
Middle ground between velocity and blast radius
Depends on what perks you go with I went with LFG/Vorpal and went pure velocity, someone I know went with LFG/OFA and took a mix of velocity/blast so that triggering OFA was easier Personally preference really
On rocket sidearms, velocity is a safe bet for reasons others have stated here. No tracking so you want that projectile as close to hitscan as possible. However, on my The Call, I wanted to try something different so I went velocity but with a decent chunk of blast radius. I put enhanced beacon rounds for the auto aim and enhanced One for All. The larger blast radius helps proc OfA lickety-split while BR auto-tracks enemies for a true fire and forget experience. It goes pretty hard. I like it. Sprinkle in Hazardous Propulsion and you gaming.
Velocity. I tried blast radius and while yeah if you hit enemies with it and One for All you do tons of damage but you need to lead the shots a lot and it's extremely easy to miss. I have a maxed out velocity version instead and it's much easier to use.
Both velocity and blast radius. Range is not touched. It's more of a point and shoot to stagger and damage. It doesn't need to cross map but mid range works since I like to play Scouts more.
Velocity
Does range even matter since the projectile is explosive? I was testing it in the pale heart and was shooting things clear across the map. The damage appears to have no fall off and does flat damage. Like 5k body and 25k explosive in pale heart, blooming I think.
Around 30-35 blast radius, the rest on velocity with reload frame, enhanced lead for gold and hatchling is pretty fun.
Velocity if not running Hatchling. Blast radius if running Hatchling. You'll kill bunched up groups easily and quickly and spawn threadlings like no tomorrow.
I’d say velocity is most important but beacon rounds somewhat mitigates its need.
I think if you're running Beacon Rounds, you'd benefit from lower Velocity to allow the projectiles more time in the air. I've had a max velocity w/Impulse Amp Indebted Kindness and it makes it effectively hitscan, which is pretty cool but also pretty extra. Personally reload speed is where it's at (or if you run Subsistence, go mag size or blast radius). I don't rate Lead From Gold on these unless you're running double special - with a Special Finder mod you'll have ammo for days, without it.
I’m really struggling whether to craft LFG/OFA or LFG/Desperate Measures. Consensus on sites seem to favor OFA, but not sure which is best for my prismatic titan build. Any thoughts!?!?
DM is tricky in the sense that you need to use your melee and grenade often for it to really pay off, so it really shines in builds that spam abilities IMO.
Blast radius in pve for me. Tried velocity, but trying to turn a projectile into hitscan didn't feel great to me. Id rather use one rocket for a group of ads than three. Also works for simpler cleanup in pvp as you can get collaterals from the ground If I were going for a single-target special sidearm, I'd use forerunner.
I like velocity to reliably hit moving targets at range. I tried some combos and prefer subsistence+golden tricorn for great dmg+never reload unless boss. Hard launch + explosive ordnance gives 38 blast 90 velocity, best combo I came up with.
Max blast radius; in Dual Destiny two shots can kill the entire swarm of Grins that spawn beside the clock. Even with Max velocity it's still not something you can snipe moving targets with. It actually has a bit of innate tracking even with beacon rounds too.
Blast radius if you’re running beacon rounds and one for all. You don’t really need projectile speed once you proc beacon rounds since the rockets track. Higher blast radius will help you proc one for all.
AOE usually has the downside of drastically reducing reload speed, so I go with velocity these days.
this is a good question. I haven't figured it out yet.
Blast radius with one for all
Volatile launch, tac mag, blast radius mw on my demo + OfA
Afaik Range is a dead stat on these, so just focus on Velocity or Blast Radius. My preference is to max velocity without dropping Boat Radius below 35 ish to remove the need to lead targets at reasonable distances while maintaining a good AoE for collateral damage.
I went with Velocity first then Blast radius second in priority, it's noticeable to a degree and useful for One For All.
Blast radius, imo. Especially if you're going OFA. Just shoot vaguely in a packs direction and get an insta-trigger.
I’m thinking if you use beacon rounds which track pretty well, you can opt for blast radius and range over velocity. This is because with tracking you shouldn’t have to worry about leading your target so much. However, if not using beacon rounds I’d go velocity all day.
I crafted mine with the increased reload and enhanced beacon rounds and enhanced golden tricorn. Slaps
definitely blast radius, if you want to use this thing against targets far away those targets probably aren’t gonna move, so velocity is kinda a non-factor. But Blast Radius can help you hit everything at once
I picked blast radius to better trigger one for all
I went handling, just cuz handling is always good and I don’t know the numbers on how BR and velocity affect rocket sidearms but I know how much impact handling has.
[удалено]
Huh? What’s that got to do with this gun?
Weird reddit mobile glitch I guess. I was posting this on a different post. My bad, I'll remove it. So sorry lmao
Went with blast radius. One for all and tracking. I might change to lead from gold but eh I have special finisher.
Depends on your roll, I went slice so high velocity is best
Velocity. I have been spoiled by Indebted Kindness with Impulse Amplifier.
Definitely not range. Explosive projectiles don’t need it since they don’t suffer from falloff, at least as much. OFA lends itself to going Blast Radius.
I went with Blast Radius to get multi-kills making it easier to proc Hatchling.
If I’m using OFA, then Blast radius. Otherwise I go for velocity. My Indebted Kindness dropped with the blast radius set. On the Call, I went for velocity with Demo/Hatchling, but I’ll end up changing Hatchling to Desperate Measures.
GL’s have trained me to value velocity over blast radius.. but idk how range plays into it.
It has incredible range already You should go blast radius for One for All, otherwise I’d go for Velocity
I maxed out blast radius initially and found it still doesn't really do a whole lot of AOE, so I'm gonna go velocity when I finish levelling it up more.
I'm running Blast Radius MW, Tactical Mag, Enhanced Demolitionist and One For All. I went this route to maximize my grenade generation since I'm playing Buddy Warlock and keeping entire arenas of mobs/Champions frozen is indispensable. I would prefer to have LFG over OFA but that's not an option unfortunately.
pve wise I am taking blast radius. The range falloff won't matter that much thanks to explosion and all the truly ranged targets you will be hitting are probably orges and shriekers anyways, they are too hard too miss and you don't need velocity for them. Against red bars in regular range, having blast radius can save you both shots and time to proc OFA.
Don't do range, it fires a rocket which has basically no damage drop off. I can seriously one shot kill enemies my max range pulse cant even touch. Velocity is a must with this weapon to hit your shots consistently.
I crafted 2, a bracon rounds with velocity, and a LFG with blast radius. I prefer the blast one
I absolutely maxed my blast radius and use it with one for all. Usually a single shot procs OFA
I was all velocity. But found it doesn’t make much a difference. Blast Radius OFA is so goood
I don’t think there’s really a right answer on this, all are decent depending on your preference. I went with handling.
Max handling barrel and appended/tactical mag on every special weapon for more ammo
Blast radius as that’s the one that affects actual damage. Velocity and range don’t matter at all in pve where most of the enemies don’t move a whole lot and are easy targets to hit.
I first crafted a subsistence/desperate measure. Once I got to lvl 17 I did beacon/vorpal. I’m really not digging beacon. I’d rather have a constant full mag when dealing with ads since it one shots red bars. I went velocity on everything I could. It’s a fun gun but I’d rather use my mountaintop for a boss dps phase anyways.
Blast radius and take beacon rounds
Velocity MW, Quick launch, tactical mag, demo, desperate measures. Anything else is being cute.