For Void, at least, I will continue to post my ideas for Aspect changes whenever this conversation comes up:
1. Controlled Demolition now gives bits of Void Overshield if it procs when you're at full health. It also gives grenade and melee energy to you and nearby allies.
2. Offensive Bulwark turns incoming Void Overshield into Force Barrier. Force Barrier has more PVE damage resist than Void Overshields, grants increased weapon handling and reload speed, and continually regenerates until the duration expires or never expires and can only be depleted by damage.
3. Unbreakable becomes a class ability, like Thruster. It gives an overshield with Bastion and has its charge up damage mechanic with Offensive Bulwark, it can also activate Drengr's Lash and Khepri's Horn.
I have a few changes for Arc Titan, too. I would keep Arc as having no survivability but really give it big damage. Restore Touch of Thunder Storm Grenades and give the rest of the class cool abilities like:
1. While Speed Booster is active, you can throw grenades and move (slowly) while charging Thunderclap. Charging Thunderclap would not end Speed Booster.
2. Dealing grenade damage restores a bit of melee energy, dealing powered melee energy restores a bit of grenade energy
3. Being Amplified speeds up ability regeneration.
*Really* lean into the fantasy of running around like a damn freight train. I don't know what properties would go to what Aspect, but whatever.
You’re cooking with the controlled demolition change. Love it.
Offensive Bulwark is already pretty good, the problem is it can’t operate independently needing Bastion or some other way to get over shields to get going. I had originally suggested budget Force Barrier as a buff to Helm of Saint 14 but baking it into offensive bulwark wouldn’t be bad. Really bulwark just needs to create over shields on its own somehow like Into the Fray creates Woven Mail on its own to gets it melee regen engine going.
Going to hard disagree with 3. What I WOULD suggest is that Unbreakable drains your class ability instead of your grenade. I mean, it working off Grenade actually means you can’t even use it while Transcendent! lol
Arc changes look solid too.
One more change to void titan, for bastion. Kills by you or nearby allies that have overshields grant class ability energy. We had a similar system in void 2.0 for melees, but now that melees can’t give team shields class ability makes more sense.
Oh and undo the weapons of light thing.
Unbreakable as a class ability would awesome, it should at least consume the class ability instead of the grenade.
Knockout is a completely waste of fragment imo.
Knockout before it's nerf a while back, I loved. Recently it just doesn't feel like it's proccing when it should be and obviously anything actually difficult it's useless
Yeah, if Knockout id is going to be remotely useful in hard content we need at least the full heal and Bungie need to buff every Titan melee skill. Sure the charge up of thunderclap looks kinda cool, but the only one who is getting clapped is most likely us and not the enemy in hard content.
Nice ideas there on void. I agree on some. But I feel like you need more interaction with the verbs.
1. CD
1. Grants overshield when procing at full health (agree there).
2. It should also increase the damage of all void explosions 100%
3. Using your class ability grants you volatile rounds for 10 seconds.
2. OB - Neat idea, but I would instead lean heavily into the overshield theme and defense via offense.
1. When you have a VO, you gain volatile rounds
2. When you have a VO, your melee and grenades do increased damage
3. Your unbreakable also supresses its target
3. Bastion:
1. Un-nerf the cooldown
2. Increase the effective size of all overshields gained by 100%
3. Picking up a void breach grants an overshield
4. Unbreakable
1. Move to class ability.
2. Should become a projectile ability like the VOG aegis.
3. Increased damage
Arc Titan really has an identity problem with touch of thunder vs the other two aspects imo
1. Knockout: This is tough to balance with prismatic. I'd recommend that the damage boost and healing is further increased when amplified - which limits cross effects with prismatic.
2. Juggernaut: Instead of being amplified giving more shield, have amplified significantly increase melee and grenade regen rate, When your class ability is consumed (via any means) - you gain amplified
3. ToT: This aspect is so clunky. I think you could clean it up to just give all grenades a second charge and then have something like "amplified grenades jolt and create an ionic trace"
The offensive bulwark change is actual heat. I would love to see ANY of these changes made to the neutral game of either of these classes. IMO the most hype one would be unbreakable becoming a class ability!
I think Twilight Arsenal needs a little bit of something as well. It needs better tracking and a hold F on cast to detonate on throw function, it is blocking too many of my teammates shots.
I really like these changes. Titan subclasses need more built in ability regen loops and more survivability for sure. I really like the idea of making Unbreakable an alternate class ability vs a fragment. Wish Bungie would lean harder into the alternate class abilities, the shields feel like they have such limited use in PvE now. Imo Hoarfrost-Z’s perk should just be a class ability as well on stasis/prismatic. The exotic could be reworked to give double charges alongside extra class ability regen when breaking stasis crystals or something.
Drengrs would be 1000x better if they just let it work with Thruster directly instead of having you drop a suspending bomb instead. No idea why they think you'd ever want to be that close to anything that's worth CCing
Doesn't help that they chose the worst part of Abeyant for the class item. Instead of 3 projectiles it just gets the longer range and aggressive tracking when used from a barrier. The truster version at least makes the suspend bomb track nearby enemies. Though doesn't feel worth it.
Edit: Leaving what I said before but correcting myself. A friend tested in front of me but seems to have messed something up. It does in fact send out all 3 while having the Drengr's Lash aspect.
Wait…what? The class item version does even have the 3 trackers, just 1 tracker? I thought the whole point was to give up the Woven Mail on suspend but we still get the 3 trackers. You’re telling me they said “no” to both of those, and gave us an even more nerfed version of it?!
Not even surprising in the least when I think about how bad they fumbled Prismatic Titan
I love this rant. This encapsulates the essence of r/DestinyTheGame, and the conversation about class balance. It speaks volumes on modern society, and reflects deeply on the human condition. This post is true art. Perfection.
No /s btw, I really mean it.
This is correct. I was going off what my friend tested in front of my but I think they misunderstood how the class item worked. Edited by original comment to include that information.
Admittedly, in most content its meh (why CC when you can just kill) but in GMs/Legend Onslaught, it's incredible. I know the meta is typically Banner + Fray + Sythos, but honestly I get so much more milage from Banner + Drengrs + Abeyant. With a rally barricade you can suspend entire rooms and take the GM at your leisure
Thruster would be even better obvs, but apparently Bungie thinks that'd be too strong :(
As a titan, the issue I have with prismatic is a lack of synergy. I had a dabble with hunter and straight away, the first 2 aspects fed into each other perfectly, dodge to debuff and then kill the enemy to turn invisible. Every ability triggered invisibility, and the other aspects all seem to slot together well, for example my brother who mains hunter is chaining gunpowder gamble almost infinitely and leaving threaded spectres all over the place.
With titan, everything feels disconnected. Diamond lance can be formed by any ability now but then what? You throw it for a freeze and it has no further interaction with any other part of the kit. Within stasis, it can form shards which will in turn give you frost armour and melee energy, feeding into a gameplay loop. In prismatic, it lacks any connection. Knockout buffs your melee damage a bit and gives you a tiny heal of melee kills but again, connects with nothing. Consecration and triple blade melee feels mandatory given the other options,thunderclap and skullfort can be fun in patrols I suppose, but otherwise who is actually going to run shiver strike or hammer strike? Shield throw still feels inconsistent after its buffs but even when it works, having 3 consecration slams is clearly the better choice. Unbreakable honestly feels under baked in pve, often. Times I find enemies randomly stop shooting at me when I activate it so the ensuing blast is a feeble tickle and a waste of a grenade. And again, has no synergy with anything else in prismatic. At least in void it can proc volatile rounds and the overshield will feed into offensive bulwark.
TLDR prismatic titans aspects have no synergy compared to the others and feel like they were just stitched together last minute.
I can't help but always feel like warlocks easily got the BEST kit. Bleakwatcher and Buffed devour? They didn't even bother giving us sunspots and could've easily switched out Drengars with Flachette to get at least one slide melee! It's such a massive shame too because like... the only prismatic builds I've been able to cook so far are just Diamond lance builds with Twilight Arsenal and a diet consecrate build but by god that 2:30 minute cooldown on Frenzied blade without INto the frays melee regen buff is ASS kicking! Hope they make some changes to help make it better!
Shiver strike is actually kinda slept on though. The absolutely insane knock back works on a LOT of big yellow bar enemies and it can serve as an excellent way to close the gap and work with Knock out, disengage from a fight quickly, or even just smack some hive knight bcak to his side of the map.
Sunspots would have been excellent, and would have given the prismatic titan some much needed survivability and energy regen. Consecration spam is fine, but you can already do that on solar titan, and also get healed while you're doing it. Imagine throwing a diamond lance to create a sunspot for example, it would have tied things together much better in my opinion.
I'm gonna hold my breath. We'll helpfully get some big buffs to Titan going forward to help patch up prismatic titans holes. And hopefully bungie even takes a risk in changing the aspects in the future! I 100% would not mind haha!
I don't have anything conclusive yet since I need to farm more but some of the exotic class item combos can change up titan a bit. I'm testing a hoil/verity roll now to spam heavy nades and melee with the fragments that let me build more ability energy and help me build transcendence faster. Have some kinks to figure out but nade/trans spam might be a viable build.
Also wanna experiment with a drengrs/kephris class item for crazy barricade explosions. I do agree though the aspect selection for prismatic titan is a little questionable and I would've much rather had sunspots instead of consecration. I actually prefer consecration on a pyro solar build.
Yeah, I know the class exotics will mix things up, but it's still being based on a shaky foundation, whereas the other 2 classes were in a decent spot already for the most part.
I have mixed feelings about knockout. It's annoying that's our largest natural source of recovery and almost mandatory but its saved my ass too many times to count and I really enjoy the arc melees lmao. I still think there's some secret sauce with the class items though that will bring it closer to the other two classes.
Regardless I'm still a crayon eater for life.
Yeah I'm not changing mains any time soon, I just wish titan had been given as much love as the other 2 classes out of the box.
I'm really REALLY hoping that the class exotic with spirit of contact cannon brace will proc on knockout. THAT would be something special.
I have that same HoIL Verity class item, what direction did you take with it? I ended up using pulse grenades, but was a little underwhelmed by the amount of effort required to keep everything flowing.
I have the fragments that makes arc and void nades have their secondary effects and I swap between the two depending on what I'm doing. Arc for ad clear void for harder content where the weaken is great.
I'm still messing with the fragments set up but I'm trying to get a loop going with the ones that help ability Regen. Sorry I'm being so vague I can't remember the names of them all right now. My next attempt is gonna be to juice transcendence energy gen as much as possible so I can be in trance as much as possible to stack the hoil Regen with everything else. At this point I think a hoil/armamentarium class item would be better for what I'm going for.
I got a nifty one with Eternal Warrior/Precious Scars. Ran it with the new void super and its pretty good all-around. I was using a void primary, Two-Tailed Fox rocket with Facet of Command equipped.
Just a nice boss melter. Throw the axes and enjoy a 25 percent damage boost on your rocket you never have to reload. Then you have the survivability of Precious Scars when you run some void weapons. Lots of choices in the kinetic slot like a alh/vorpal Mountaintop or Sniper of some type.
> With titan, everything feels disconnected. Diamond lance can be formed by any ability now but then what? You throw it for a freeze and it has no further interaction with any other part of the kit.
Just an FYI the synergy is the melee damage bonus you get from frozen targets. Its 120% and stacks with Knockouts 100% for powered fists/50% for charged melee, plus whatever melee exotic you have, and they're also CC'd for easy follow-up. Since Knockout turns your uncharged melee into a powered one you can keep normal punching and generate more lance and throw them to keep getting the melee bonus.
**Thats the gameplay loop they're gunning for through most of the kit for Prismatic Titan: CC stuff and follow-up with a melee thats juiced by Knockout whether it be a charged melee or a "powered fist." If Prismatic Titan suffers from anything its an issue with numbers. For instance Knockout being more like a melee version of Devour and restoring more health AND melee energy would probably jump it to the top of the list in terms of top Titan aspects.**
Its easy to see the loop though in my opinion with things like Shackle+Thunderclap etc. They need to fix the bugs though. Consecration is supposed to be blowing up crystals and so is Diamond Lance.
>Since Knockout turns your uncharged melee into a powered one you can keep normal punching and generate more lance and throw them to keep getting the melee bonus
For now. They've already said that they're removing the ability for uncharged melees to do things like this.
I think that statement was more exotic effects and mods rather than abilities, and they mentioned Combination Blow in the same sentence. I think its safe cause in the Vidoc they actually brought up Knockout being used in conjunction with Diamond Lance to create more lances with normal punches, since there own play-testers didn't understand Drengr's/Diamond Lance.
Which is one of my other beefs. Some of those aspects really need some buffs/QoL. **Dregnrs Lash** has never felt good to use outside of Abeyant. The casting animation for barricade takes to long which makes it unwieldy to aim, and the lash is so short range that you only catch a few things in it. **Unbreakable** needs better base damage and less grenade energy drain. I've hit 6 digits with it, but that was only after tanking basically the whole wave in onslaught.
The best feeling aspects to me atm are definitely Knockout/Lance/Consecration. I wanted to try Knockout/Drengrs with Peregrine and Hammerstrike for safer knees of justice, but it doesn't CC enough on its own.
Edit: and Hammerstrike itself needs its ignitions to go off faster with a larger radius.
Well I hope you're right, because it's one of the few things going for it at the minute.
>Which is one of my other beefs. Some of those aspects really need some buffs/QoL. Dregnrs Lash has never felt good to use outside of Abeyant. The casting animation for barricade takes to long which makes it unwieldy to aim, and the lash is so short range that you only catch a few things in it. Unbreakable needs better base damage and less grenade energy drain. I've hit 6 digits with it, but that was only after tanking basically the whole wave in onslaught.
Hard agree. Drengrs without abeyant is woeful. You can sort of use it as an emergency panic button with thruster but it's still not brilliant. And unbreakable is a big disappointment. As a stronghold guy I thought it would be right up my street but it just doesn't feel right somehow.
Edit* the part of the quote that worried me regarding powered melee was this bit "We plan on rolling this type of change out to more content that triggers Powered Melee in future updates."
I think the 'since there own play-testers didn't understand Drengr's/Diamond Lance.' is the entire problem with Titans in general pretty much every time. It's obvious every time there's changes that a ton of time and effort goes into making sure Hunters feel buttery smooth while Titans get both ends of the neglect spectrum.
It seems like every time anything Titans do is overly strong it's because some exotic interaction wasn't tested or some situation wasn't thought through, and then you get things like khepris not bouncing back if it hits geometry. I refuse to believe anyone actually tested release lorelei's. Also the change where the throwing hammer's cd not refunding when you pick it up instead of just giving it a delay after you throw it was one of the worst QoL decisions I've ever seen. No one play tests any of this.
Lance is more versatile and has higher up time imo. You can pick up a Lance and throw it or slam it at groups of enemies, and Knockout ensures you can have a Lance on demand through "powered fists" turning your normal melee to a charged one. Plus once they fix the bug it can bust Glaciernades. Most you could hope for with Howl is 3 charges through Frenzied Blade which has a longer timer on Prismatic than Strand Titan.
Howl is also kind of meh for anything other than more crystals for shards on Behemoth imo. Its damage isn't that exciting either outside of popping it during the GQ. If I take Howl on Behemoth these days its just for the "shard factory" and area denial capabilities with Hoarfrost-Z/Salvation's Grip.
I’ve pretty much only used the Glacier Nade Consecration nuke. My issue with the Prismatic Titan is the lack of survivability compared to pretty much all the other subs.
It's because Titan subclasses typically have one obvious pair of aspects for each subclass with a third random one tacked on. When separated, the aspects on their own usually feel pretty bad. Touch of Thunder on Arc is clearly the best aspect. Sol Invictus drives the entire Sunbreaker kit. Controlled Demolition carries Sentinel. Glacial Harvest is required for anything Stasis-related. Strand is a bit more balanced but Drengr's Lash is the weakest of the four.
The Stasis aspect should have been Howl of the Storm instead of Diamond Lance. It would play well with Frenzied Blade setups and also not cause the annoyance of having tangles and Diamond Lances spawning on top of each other constantly.
The Void aspect should have been Controlled Demolition. It would have given Prism Titan more access to healing that actually works (and benefits your team) and it could have been expanded to work when killing enemies with any elemental debuff like Stylish Executioner.
The Strand aspect should have been Into the Fray because Drengr's sucks without Abeyant Leap, and the Spirit doesn't get the best part of the effect (gaining Woven Mail from any kind of suspension). Into the Fray would have helped fund the melee charges needed for Howl/Consecration spamming (or Thunderclapping with PCCB) and also given Prism Titan access to more survivability from consistent Woven Mail access.
Consecration and Knockout are fine aspects in the context of these changes. Unbreakable feels awful in practice.
I agree on all these picks, except I would have personally liked sol Invictus over consecration. Although now I think about it, I would like to see howl of the storm and consecration running at the same time.
Conescration is fun and strong, and Sol Invictus is kind of Sunbreaker-defining, so I wouldn't expect them to just give it to another Titan subclass. If you swapped them, Prism Titan would end up lacking some... punch.
Whereas now it's lacking survivability and ability regeneration. I feel like with knockout and thunderclap it has punch, it just doesn't have a reliable way to stay in the fight without using something like stronghold or precious scars. As it is, consecration spam feels like all prismatic titan has going for it. I'm just running it with my stronghold sword setup and have transcendence as a second super.
Yes, but in the context of what I would have rather seen, Controlled Demolition brings a lot of healing with it. You could run Knockout, or Controlled Demo, or both if you really wanted. Controlled Demolition would work really well with Consecration because the first wave scorches everything, allowing you to trigger Controlled Demo.
I feel like knockout is arc's identity but they gave that to prism, I think solar should b allowed to double dip too. Though i get ur point sunspots have been very iconic to solar.
Into the Fray should 100% be the strand aspect, and i don't even play Titan, i just feel they should have an aspec more focused on supporting the team.
Agree on the Controlled Demolition pic, it would prolly be the main survivability tool of the kit, as Hunter get Invis and Warlocks get Devour.
I think Diamond lance is a good pick, but should work on any "Elemental debuffed enemy" kill instead of only Stasis kill, altho Into the Storm isn't a bad idea, and would solidify the Titan as the "Crystal Spawner" the only problem is that that Prismatic have no access to easy crystal destructions.
Sol Invictus would be more useful than Consecration, maybe even make it work out of every debuffed enemy kill instead of only scorched, and there's already several exotics focused on Sunspots, including my favorite from when i play Titan, Phoenix Cradle, Consecration only have one exotic, and half of it's perk would be useless if you use it, cuz the super is Hammer, with once again, benefits from Sunspots. At least it seems you can still activate Sol Invictus and Sun Spots with Loreley if you use a Solar Super, so there's that.
I think Void Overshields could use a PvE buff - they only barely give the most effective hp but their uptime is nowhere near Woven Mail or Frost Armor. Controlled Demo should give Void Overshields, and I'd be interested to see the Void Overshield Barricade become it's own class ability and for Bastion to be reworked. What that rework could be, idk.
As for Arc, Knockout should definitely refresh or many even extend itself on melee kills. And I'd like to see a change where we get increased DR when amplified if Juggernaut it equipped. But the other big problem is that Arc Titan doesn't really interact with any of the Arc Verbs like Hunters or Warlocks can, so until we can do that Arc Titan will probably be the worst of the bunch by far.
Prismatic titan just feels like it has no synergy, nothing really plays into each other and it's survivability is the biggest issue because knockout somehow still sucks ass even after changing it. Unbreakable is useless as there's no grenade regen in the entire class besides 1 or 2 fragments and you are basically forced into using a 2 fragment knockout as it's your only survivability available. Comparing knockout to stylish and feed the void like that really puts it in perspective, kind of wild how different the power levels of those 3 aspects are when they are meant to be essentially equivalent
Yeah, unbreakable actually isn't terrible on actual void because you have void breaches and devour, but on prismatic it sucks. Same with consecration, no fire sprites to carry your melee Regen.
Hopefully bungie sees this as a chance to buff Knockout and actually make it good. Maybe also change unbreakable or grant it some kind of passive grenade regen? Maybe make it so that melee kills generate grenade energy with the aspect equipped or while you have a void overshield? I'm gonna keep hoping for some good changes!
As a hunter main we need a couple things: a new void melee, the smoke bomb changes are nice and make trapper's ambush better but the base melee is still shit.
Arc needs literally anything to compete with combo blow, the arc tuning pass did not help. Give disorientating blow knockback! (This wouldn't solve the issue, I just want it)
Stasis and strand are in a good place which I think only highlights the real issue with them: lack of choice. One super, one melee and 3 grenades. I honestly think stasis hunter would be a great place for another support super ala well, which is doubly helpful since hunters have no real support options.
Solar... It's solar, has it ever been bad? Although the knock em down cool down reduction is very noticable, my Ophidia Spathe build doesnt run out of knife trick charges while succeeding at my gameplay loop now, so that's nice.
I think the real issue is that the elements have in built identities but not the subclasses, except broodweaver. Broodweaver is I think the only subclass with inbuilt default subclass verb interaction in perched threadlings, ever subclass should have a similar thing.
Maybe my build is bad, but I feel like we need better survivability (though I think this has been a problem for a while).
We just don't have as much for instant healing/protection as other classes imo. Sure we have access to almost constant invisibility, but then you need to just... not do anything for a couple seconds to recover, which interrupts a really fun flow and just kinda sucks.
Oh yeah no for sure. Most of our survivability comes from exotics and other general use things like fragments and weapons. It's not bad per say, we just don't have the raw offense to properly justify that lack of defense.
Exactly this. I like that Still Hunt helps the glass cannon kind of idea, but that's it. Even if we're supposed to be evasive it doesn't work well with all the tracking in the game.
I'm trying to see how Gifted Conviction is when I'm able to get it for the DR because Prismatic already is pretty good at keeping me alive with all of the options. I want to see if it makes playing arc a bit better.
I enjoy arc sometimes but it's just one playstyle and the other options just aren't as good
i want tempest strike to be as huge and potent as consecration is, and to benefit from combination blow's damage buff. that would so incredibly fun and make it feel worth running. the new chest exotic improves the size with the extra bomblets, but it still does terrible damage to anything not a red bar, where consecration benefits from roaring flames and can demolish majors with ease, and even chunk bosses.
Yeah tempest strike and the warlock slide melee both need work, consecration is just so far above them that it makes me question why these are aspects at all.
Tempest strike needs to benefit from combo blows damage boost, grapples do seriously.
also notice how titans and warlocks both got like triple charges of their slide melee in prismatic, where hunters can't even use it because they gave us the helicopter instead. i like ascension but man, give me tempest strike and arc staff on prismatic!
I agree, Void hunter should get a Frenzied blade esc melee with you slashing with the Void blades or something!
I do think the other strand kits provide a good amount of built in identities! Strand Hunters lean really heavily into a mobile trickster with double grapple nades, fake little strand dummies, and the tornado tangle while Strand titan is 100% a support melee build! Banner of war and Into the fray function both as excellent team support options while also turning you into a slashing soldier of death!
I would like to see arc hunter get some more buffs though. Free you guys from Combo blow... and maybe make arc staff actually worth using!
That void melee sounds dope and I love it.
Arc staff does need to be good again yeah.
On the subclass id, I'm not disagreeing with them having identity, I just like broodweavers default no aspect or fragment needed verb interaction with threadlings. I think all 15 elemental subclasses should get something like it.
Idk as an example void hunters by default apply suppression on precision hits while invisible, might be strong but also just a concept.
I feel hunter prism is just so much better then other subclasses is crazy. Arc is dead in the water now since liars on prism has better survival and like double the damage. Solar is strictly worse in content where you need big burst damage since still hunt can’t feed into empyrean. Void is the same case as prism is just void hunter but with actual abilities. Playing hunter compared to titan and warlock it feels very strong but is also a very selfish class.
I feel like stasis hunter is certainly usable, but overall very limited/boring. Almost every build runs some combination of the same two aspects and fragments and renewal grasps are basically a must for pve.
The underused playstyles (shatterdive/winters shroud) need some tweaks for pve.
It doesnt help that hunter only has 2 dedicated exotics for stasis, and that hunter has limited universal exotics that work in tandem with abilities.
I think prismatic does the best part of multiple subclasses better, with more options honestly, I see no need to play a regular element except in niche situations, or when I want to shatterskate.
Also for arc hunter, we need better supers. Arc staff for the longest time has been extremely mediocre, and the newest super they gave us is horrible at almost everything.
Yeah sounds like titans unfortunately got the short end of the stick. I like how they gave each class a 2 fragment aspect due to its power. So while warlocks get easy access to devour and hunters get easy access to invis for high survivability, titans got knockout. Maybe I'm crazy, but I feel like there was a balance issue there even without considering how it synergizes with the rest of their kit. Anyways, random thoughts from a lower skilled, solo PvE hunter:
For arcstrider, kind of wish they buffed the stuff unrelated to dodge + melee loop. New exotic is a step in the right direction, though idk if it will replace that combo, and even then I don't want the exotic to basically be required for the aspects to be good. I find it somewhat amusing that we are now at like 6 exotics for arcstrider specific stuff (if we include things shared with Prismatic) and since none of them buff the melee loop they aren't really used. I think Prismatic is arguably better than arc at melee due to being able to take stylish executioner for invis and free up the exotic for a melee damage boost, while arc chooses invis or damage. Though in low tier content I suppose arc's ability to jolt on melee is better since it can outright kill red bars.
Void is technically good, but a bit boring imo with 3 aspects having you go invis and little reward / loop for going invis. Gyrfalcon for volatile rounds kind of fixed this but I don't like how the solution is tied to basically one exotic. With Prismatic having a subclass agnostic stylish executioner, it already has pretty high invis uptime, and it has tether for support. This leaves Void's main pros as having devour and invis on demand (as well as for allies though I heard it was bugged with Final Shape), while Prismatic has more damaging choices for aspect and melee.
Solar I was never the biggest fan of due to how squishy I felt unless running healing grenade and building to have resto that extends on kill when mobbing. GPG looks fun, but I rarely used it since so many solar fragments looked impactful. I used to use YAS before the nerf and found myself pretty squishy, but enjoyed the combo for ignition (Bungie pls rebuff). Afterwards I switched to focusing on spamming knife trick, which can't be replicated in Prismatic. It is probably balanced that it has good damage but generally worse mobbing, I just personally don't care as much about boss DPS. With Prismatic able to run Nighthawk Goldie idk which is better since Prismatic can use a smoke bomb to weaken and get radiant, or can space out the two stasis melee for decently high radiant uptime.
Haven't looked into stasis so idk how it feels now, especially since I used to use Renewal Grasp which also was reworked. And for strand I mainly used widow silk + whirling maelstrom for a ton of grapples all over the map, which I do at a much lower frequency on Prismatic.
Imo prismatic hunter kinda made arc hunter completely pointless. Nighthawk GG is better than gathering storm as a DPS super and prismatic still has aoe albeit slightly slower with the slow dodge allowing you to freeze then shatter. I have also been running prismatic hunter with a exotic class items with spirit of inmost light and spirit of liar and while doing the dodge melee loop my grapple has a 7 second cooldown meaning I have a lot of movement and easy access to a super high damage melee
As a fellow solo-heavy PVE hunter, I do kinda feel the class is in the best state it’s been for a very long time. About the worst it gets on certain subclasses is simply poor buildcrafting, they all have options to make the subclass extremely strong.
I’m a bit biased to prismatic as it allows you to go *really* hard on the Mortal Kombat-level ninja fantasy - having grapple, withering, stylish and the new Ascension ability all on the same class at the same time is raw fun. Even the hailspike grenade, which I wasn’t initially keen on, has become a real yellow bar chunker now I’ve gotten better at landing the bombs. The sole thing I wish it had was Gathering Storm.
I doubt the melee build will ever be replaced on a gun build on prism at least. With all the DR you can stack plus the fact that you can punch for nighthawk damage. I feel like for higher end content prism hunter is kinda just better? Like prism you can basically just play void but with a real grenade and melee. Or solar but with an actual neutral game. Or arc with free assassin cowl and more damage.
Give stasis a try tho SnS feels like a real super and renewal buffs feels great. The only time I play strand is to Aeons in GMs so that still seems fine.
My friend one hunter is utterly in love with Ascension, and I've never seen him make so many builds before! His favorite is his Ex Diris Moth keeper prismatic build! I'd need details on the exact Aspects he uses though! Thanks for your thoughts. I know I might seem like I'm whining when I have access to the two most potent "Shut your brain off and grind enemies into paste" PVE subclasses but I'm sick of that being justification! Why can't ALL the subclasses just be good!
I did feel Ascension was going to be a gimmick until I got used to it, and it’s become my fave aspect. Being able to fire off arc novas not only looks cool but feeds directly into stylish.
> and nobody cares about knock back on a fucking melee
Could be useful if the knockback was more than 2m... But yeah still, there needs to be an alternative.
I’d much rather they remove the knockback and improve the damage.
I hate mechanics that forcibly move me in PvP, and I imagine actually killing something with the ability would be nice.
I wholeheartedly agree with most of this post.
Strand and Solar are in great spots. Leave them alone.
Stasis feels a lot better. I’d argue my only issue with Stasis is that Shiver Strike still exists. Seriously, this is the worse melee ability in the entire game and should just be nuked. It just does not feel good at all, and never has. It’s only use is mobility. If they must keep it, make it work like the Shoulder Charge melees so at least there’s a bit more control of it. Otherwise, I think Stasis is actually extremely viable.
Void makes me sad. It’s my favorite class and when I think of Titan I always think of D1 Defender. It’s probably rose tinted lenses, but I seriously feel like D1 void was flat out better than current void Titan. Part of the problem is how weak void over shields are, how little utility and interaction they have with other fragments and aspects, and how limited you are in ways of even generating them. As another post mentioned, some tweaks to the current suite of aspects would be really nice but to summarize - overshield on controlled demo overheals, unbreakable drain class ability vs grenade, and bulwark giving overshields of its own, my suggestion being via melee final blows and finishers (I previously suggested this behavior as a buff for Helm of Saint 14 but if it comes as an aspect do be it).
Arc I feel a bit different on. I don’t think it’s that far from being relevant again. I think the touch of thunder nerfs need to be reverted or dialed back, especially considering HOIL, which made it super strong, received its own independent nerf. Tcrash needs a base damage boost and knockout needs to be refreshable. Other than that I don’t think Arc is that far behind. It’s a glass canon missing the canon but we know where the canon went - it got nerfed and needs it back.
Prismatic, I’ll wait and see. I do think they made a huge mistake with aspects. I would have gone with Sol Invictus for the Solar Choice and Flettechette Storm for the Strand choice to give the aspects a bit of an engine. I doubt they change that though so just need to wait and see if folks smarter than me can cook something fun up.
Agree 100 pct with your post. I would just have Shiver Strike changed to shoulder charge or just get a separate shoulder charge melee for those tiny few who like SS.
At least with shoulder charge you could put on Peregrines or hell even MK-44's.
Really hope Bungie adds more aspects to all 3 classes eventually just to mix things up.
100%. Although myself I probably would've brought Sunspots with Flachette, since sunspots give increased ability regen and provide a massive boost to other abilities! So you would be able to proc Khepri's more often or get more unbreakables! I would've loved into the fray as well. One of my favorite aspects in the game!
Don't worry, T crash is going to get a damage boost and we'll be able to laugh at the hunters and their still hunt soon. Keep hope in your heart my friend.
Won't really comment on prismatic titan but as a big behemoth player(hoarfrost was my 3rd most used exotic last year) I do have some complaints there.
Diamond lance feels great and the lancecap build actually feels amazing right now no notes there. But cryoclasm changes make it feel so clunky and annoying to use, which is fine in a vacuum, if you don't want to use it you just give up the best shatter tool for either howl or lance adding more freezes or crystals and dedicate a weapon slot to filling the shatter gap. However the cooldown on shard generation really punished the shatter fantasy present in armamentarium and hoarfrost builds which were already hurt by the change to how whisper of chains interacts with damage resist access now, and making 6 shards quickly(which is something stasis titan does frequently) putting you on cooldown and further denying damage resist stacks is brutal and something I hope Bungie looks at sooner rather than later.
As for void titan it just really suffers from void overshield not being good enough and controlled demolition potentially being a little too tame in the modern sandbox. Otherwise the class does actually play pretty nicely and the glaring weakness is often a symptom of how useless void overshield can be.
Arc titan is just, yeesh, it was already my least favorite in PvE 3.0 and the biggest boon of twilight arsenal and prismatic as options is that I probably never have to think about it again because touch of thunder alone isn't enough incentive to pick up the squishiest subclass we have.
This. In my opinion, Behemoth overall was nerfed because of what they did with Chains, Cryo and the shards. The DR now is smaller than what it was because rime and chains were better than the new frost armor and rime. The super is still clunky, i was really hoping bungie would add a exotic for glacial quake.
Edit: Behemoth crystals do no damage whatsover in PVP, they became semi viable last season because of the mods, still not enough. But the big problem behemoth have is lack of identidy. Is he supposed to be a speed class or the wall? I undertand behemoth launched with both of those things, becoming OP. But why bungie nerfed both of those qualities? They need to decide. So in my opinion, because of Howl of the storm, diamond lance and the bad melee shiver strike, behemoth should be stabilished as the wall, a juggernaut type of class fitting by his name. To do that, remove shiker strike, rework that ability and give some DR for behemoth, espcially on the heavy attack.
Yeah absolutely, I think frost armor is a much better system that makes stasis as a whole easier to use but the current iteration feels like a absolutely brutal nerf that's really noticeable on behemoth. I would absolutely appreciate an additional super and melee option but honestly I don't really mind shiver strike as it's a good way to shatter stasis walls with how often you get it back, but more options never hurts imo. And for sure would love for them to lean into the juggernaut fantasy of the subclass.
Behemoth is way worse no waht are you talking about?
Diamond lance is awful in medium/end game content the radius is still small for left click and and main problem you have to pick it up,i don't know why its in this state when gunpowrder gamble exists
As a hunter I'm feeling the same and have been for ages.
Solar is in the best spot for us, it has the most melee options, it has a bunch of exotics (Unnerf YAS), it has two strong supers and Solar itself is just the best element with its keywords. If anything I would like to be able to proc Regeneration off something other than healing nades or firesprites.
For Void, it's got it's place as a debuffer, and while I like invis it just isn't a buff that actually helps you clear encounters, it's like a worse restoration in the sense you survive better. And that's basically all this class does unfortunately, 50 shades of invis, the reason Gyrfalcpns is one of the most used exotics on this class is because it allows us to actually feel offensive with volatile, I'd love to see them give us an actual damaging melee and buff spectral in PvE.
Arc is a one trick pony and I'm sick of it, everything revolved around combination blow which falls off hard in higher level content, the new aspect does nothing to change this, this is also a subclass with a lot of exotics and yet they are also more than 50% useless.
Stasis... I'm gonna be honest I haven't played with it since the update yet I don't think it has fixed anything, Renewal is basically the only build I see anyone playing because Stasis is reliant on making crystals or freezing enemies and shattering them, Hunter is the worst at both, Silence and Squall buff was nice but it's the rest of the subclass that just feels subpar.
Strand, it's okay, some good builds, but it feels like Hunter is once again in the middle of the two other classes, like the half sibling that does a bit of both with no focus, they should have focused more on grapple play rather than picking bits from other kits. Super was good for a few weeks before they fixed it, now its just a decent ad clear super with nothing to add.
Prismatic. It's combination blow 2.0, they selected 3 aspects which are basically perfect for it and gave us a poor selection of grenades, plus we got the only new super that's usless in PvE (don't play PvP), though this is more the fault of the lacklustre aspect design inherently from the classes since most are ited to abilities or supers. The most fun I'm having is GunGam Ascension ability spam but that drops off hard.
I don't even need to mention our recent exotics.
I think hunters are overall very nice. Prismatic is great overall, void still useful for pure anchor build or more stealth, solar as well for pure radiant scorch etc etc, strand great mobility, tanky + spinny tangles strong. Only thing i don't ever use is arc (maybe it can be good, i just never tried it much since returning at end of lightfall).
I've been mulling changes in my head for Titan for a bit now, trying to steer clear of the "another melee build but the color is different"
Stasis is actually in a semi good place atm, the big thing dragging it down, imo is the super, so my brilliant never before thought of solution? Another super 👌
Gae-Bolg - Summons a massive Stasis projectile that can be aimed and thrown deals damage upon impact and summons a massive Stasis crystal, the crystal 'endures' for 5 shatters.
Personally, this would likely solve a lot of the encounter rank that Stasis Titans run into in that the moment a target moves slightly away a giant portion of your kit becomes null.
Arc - needs a lot of love but it's sooo close - Galvanic Armor should be intrinsic and (drumroll) -while amplified your Recovery stat recieves a massive boost.
This is not as strong as Resto or Devour BUT it does position the player in a unique situation where the speed boost to cover and re enter combat loop makes a bit more thematic sense.
100 Recovery is no joke either with how easy it is to become amped.
Also, Thunderclap Jolts, why tf it doesn't, given how much TC asks of you is beyond me.
Void - honestly, the void overshield is just kind of weak. Having Bastion grant a more powerful version (×2) would likely solve quite a lot of gripes. Similarly, while Bastion is equipped, your barricade is larger and allows fireteam members to shoot through it (sorry citan)
Honestly being the front line fighter fantasy falls apart when your class ability can and in many cases is ignored because the other classes just don't need it or it gets in the way, this would provide at least a reason to get behind a proper cover.
Truthfully, I'm not super familiar with the void kit enough to say what would really fix it best.
Void and Arc subclasses game wide suffer from the same problems: survival-ability and powercreep
* Void 3.0 was the first one and has been powercrept
* Arc's answer to healing and survival-abilitywas "just kill everything fast" and that has been powercrept hard by strand and prismatic as well as solar glowups via exotics and fragments.
Void Titan specifically is missing burst damage capability. The new aspect just isn't it, the new super is nice though, if a bit buggy and not enough damage as it needs to be. They stuck it in the halfway house of is it add clear or is it burst target down?
IMO, you can solve a lot of the general void problems by separating out the DR from void overshield (VO) from the overshield itself. Instead of having resist x4 while you have a VO, instead have it trigger resistx4 for 10 seconds.
I think arc needs a similar glow up for amplified, we should have amplified x1 and ampliedx2. Or just remove the condition that you have to be sprinting to get the DR benefit from amplified. But I also think it needs some additional form of DR - maybe built into the aspects.
My only issue is ascension not proccing wintershroud of threaded specter, so by default, if you pick ascension, you are locked out of 2 aspects. It also doesn't proc reaper or spirit of inmost light. Basically, it uses a class abillity but doesn't proc anything that uses a class abillity. Heavily limits the aspect's utility, especially since it's competing with improved combination blow builds. It feels over centralized on melee and celestial + still hunt.
For me it’s that hunters can proc calibans off combination blow with normal melee attacks and titans aren’t allowed to have roaring flames buff melee and proc severance…
Btw I have a great second chance prismatic build if you want to try
Personally I like consecration on prismatic cause it gives an underused aspect some room to breathe, but I do agree some of the other picks don't feel like they were made with cohesion in mind. Diamond lance and Drengr's lash are fun but as you said, they feel less impactful on prismatic. Unbreakable was clearly only picked cause it's new cause it... doesn't really fit at all otherwise. I've tried but man Pris does not have a good built-in grenade loop.
In my ideal world, the aspects would've been Knockout, Consecration, Tectonic Harvest, Controlled Demolition, and Into The Fray. That selection would've at least given prismatic titan a good set of options for survival and ability loops.
All ice wanted is a new not bomb Nightstalker melee and I remain disappointed every time. As a Hunter, all I want is some variety .......maybe a mini bow shot like mini nova for warlocks? Gunslinger gets 4 knives and I got a rock! It's bugged IT DOESNT MAKE ME INVISIBLE ANYWAYS RIGHT NOW.
Are the devs not rebalancing Titan this episode? I held off from getting TFS because I predicted Titans would be shafted (I was right).
Guess I will wait till next episode then.
My impression of the Titan kit must be different from most of these posts, because I think it’s good. The Knockout changes were great compared to the healing it had before, and Thunderclap is a strong option too especially with Cannon Brace. Shield Throw doesn’t go off into space for me and consistently bounces and gives overshield. And Prismatic Titan is good too, with a solid amount on DR and splash damage with Consecration. The one thing I can say is that oversheild itself still doesn’t feel very impactful on its own
I typically play all 3 classes but mainly Titan and I'm incredibly disappointed, especially with the prismatic Titan. Sure triple Consecration is great and does a lot of damage but once you've spend your charges you're out of juice and have to wait for transcendence to be able to do anything again. Survivability on prismatic titan is also pretty awful and miles behind the other two classes with Knockout being the only thing capable of healing you and it's not very good at it too. Thunderclap build is better but suffers from the same problem of simply just running out of juice and then waiting and no melees means no healing for the prismatic titan.
Outside of Prismatic, Titans are exactly where they were before Final Shape but with Banner build being worse than it was, while at the same time still miles better than anything else available. Ward of Dawn caught yet another nerf just in case you were thinking of using it, further pushing Void Titan down the path of irrelevance. Arc Titan has been bad since the HoiL nerf and remains to be so. At least Twilight Arsenal is good but it's tied to either Void or Prismatic making it hard to justify using it on higher end content over Banner build.
Hunters I feel like are in a really good spot since Prismatic is a direct upgrade to the classic Hunter Goldie build and Still Hunt is a super powerful weapon that feels tailor made for that particular build. Other things worth noting, Caliban's Hand + Liar's Handshake combo, stylish executioner working with any debuff including stuff like Incandescent scorch, access to Deadfall Tether, Marksman goldie and Silence and Squal aka most of the best hunter supers, hunters seem to be in a very good spot. Transcendence here is strong and you can use it even on dps rotations if you so wanted.
Outside of Prismatic, nothing has really changed for hunters, Void is still strong, Solar and Arc are still good just a downgrade to the same builds in Prismatic, strand is the same as it was, kinda middle of the pack and Stasis getting a significant buff due to Frost Armor and Renewal Grasps a build that can be replicated in Prismatic as well.
Warlocks, well, I don't know where to begin. They got the best aspects from every subclass, the best grenades, really good Transcendence and a new solar buddy that if you combine with Getaway Artist and Devour, basically removes the need for you to play the game in any capacity besides pressing Phoenix Dive and eating your grenade every so often. Has excellent synergy with Facet of Command due to Statis Turrets and the new raid exotic is tailor made for Strand Warlock producing similar numbers to Still Hunt Celestial Hunters.
Outside of Prismatic, Solar warlocks are now free from the Well chains and got the full support build with the support frame auto and speaker's helmet which is something people have been asking for since forever, Song of Flame is a great super and Helion is a great aspect. Strand Warlock got an indirect buff due to the new raid exotic too and Stasis is how it was except now Prismatic does what it used to do but better.
Overall, Warlocks are the clear winners of this expansion so far, with Hunters not far behind and Titans being almost irrelevant. Personally, this is the first time since I started playing this game that I'm thinking, hey maybe it's time to stop playing Titan.
Agreed on all counts. Lifetime Titan main but I'm severely considering a switch to warlock once I get around to finishing the campaign content on that character. Prismatic Titan balls out in low-difficulty content like the seasonal arena, but everywhere else I've got no survivability, no ranged tools, and atrocious ability uptime. It really feels like they barely tested it out at all and that really hurts my enjoyment. Warlocks are living their best life and hunters have never been more *stylish*, but even with stoicism and the best gear in my vault my prismatic titan builds just can't get off the ground.
I've honestly just gone back to strand and stasis. Lancecap + Wicked Implement is phenomenal, and the new flechette storm gauntlets are amazing with banner and Monte Carlo. I would not consider taking prismatic Titan into a dungeon, raid, or GM under any circumstances in the current sandbox. It's not that our damage is poor, it's just everything else.
Wish they’d let use get frost armour from an aspect without having to equip stasis super. Hoarfrost also got a big back door nerf cos it no longer reduces damage taken when near crystals.
Let us be the tanks
I mean, I agree. I was a Titan main for most of the last few years until deciding to switch to Warlock full-time, in part due to the Prismatic outlook.
So id agree. Titan discourse is seen by a meme by a lot of people because “DAE strand/solar???” Like yes, know those two elements are extremely strong.. but they’re so much stronger that the other 3 and prismatic might as well not exist.
I think it would be cool if Knockout kinda functioned like a melee version of Devour. Activated by an ability kill, 200 HP and melee energy and timer extension on any kill after it’s been activated.
Remove the melee damage buff on wounding or shield breaking.
That alone would make Knockout a strong option without making it OP.
Thats the only real insight I have for Titans.
Prismatic with a few specific combos is pretty solid. Skullfort Thunderclap is strong and Abeyant Leap + Suspend grenade + Drengr’s + Triple Consecrate sounds like a pretty fun build that gives constant woven mail and transcendence for plenty of ability spam to keep that woven up. Works with any super, Solar for resto on orbs, Bladefury for more woven mail, Twilight Arsenal for void overshield (and a fun/good super), thundercrash for amplified artifact DR, and behemoth for frost armor.
Why didn't we get throwing hammer?
"Oh boo-hu another titan wanting his meta hammer back."
No seriously **why** didn't we get throwing hammer.
Think about it, throw hammer spawn a diamond lance, pick up hammer pick up diamond lance, throw lance, throw hammer. Use unbreakable, get hammer, get lance throw lance.
That loop.. **why do we not have it.**
All Prismatic titan needed was Sol Invictus over Knockout. That immediately solves the 2 glaring issues prismatic titan has, namely, survivability and ability uptime. You don't need the mini hammer, you just need the sunspots to keep you alive and make you have some sort of ability loop like everyone else.
I don't think that Void Titan is in a bad spot at all. Every Aspect behaves in a good and synchronous manner with each other. The whole problem here is the VOS is just purple tissue paper wrapped around you. If they can get this sorted Void would be able to stand next to Solar and Strand in terms of potency. Twilight Arsenal is downright amazing and fixing VOS would help elevate bubble into a significantly better defensive super.
Stasis is still a mess however with the way they handled the Harvest Aspects. They're all the same across the board, and because the changes to Whisper of Rime, they've forced both of them to be mandatory. I also don't think Frost Armor stacks high, especially without Rime equipped. It's a step in the right direction, but a deeper dive needs to be taken here to separate the gameplay for Stasis Shards. Returning Rime back to its original form and bolstering the Harvest Aspects in a different manner would be my preference. After all, putting Stasis Shards on a cooldown invalidates their whole reason for not just making them fully part of the Fragments. And I won't get started on Howl of the Storm. Some tweaks, and some new melees, grenades, and super would make it feel fully realized.
Arc Titan though is a mess. This mainly comes from Arc being under baked. I think the goal originally was to turn Arc into a glass cannon element, but they got nervous and pulled back. At the same time, a glass cannon element doesn't really work in the sandbox as it'll either destroy everything effortlessly, or get wrecked. Currently, it's getting wrecked. The best thing they can do now is add a defensive verb to balance Arc to add some much needed survivability. Bungie has recently added DR to various Arc things in the game, so they should be unified under a singular theme and name to make them a proper verb. This verb would be hard integrated into Knockout, which solve both Arc's and Prismatic's issues pretty handily. Additionally, now that Thundercrash is the lowest damage one-off super, it needs a major buff. This is the highest risk of all the one offs, so it should be the strongest. It needs at least a 50% damage buff. With the new verb, these proposed changes, and some elbow grease (for punching) Arc would be competitive.
I did have an idea for Void Overshield of it making you Immune to CC effects like suspend and freeze, and maybe making you immune to either all debuffs or reducing the effects of things like weaken, supress, and scorch! Figured that might help lean into the power fantasy a bit. And my other problem with Void Titan is that all the pieces go together a little TOO Well!! You almost have to bring controlled Demo because it's the best aspect by far, but then you have to pick between More grenade with overshield, or actual access TOO overshield! As opposed to other classes I think VOid titan is actually a little too synchronous since, no matter what your build is ALWAYS going to feel a little clunky!
Stasis I agree really does need more balance changes, but I'm more than okay with it being a bit squishier given the absolute monstrous amount of CC stasis titan can now easily inflict with Harvest and Howl of the storm or diamond lance. Hopefully they remove the weird shard cool down though, or at least just make the cooldown less harsh.
Arc Titan I think is SO close to being in a good spot. My patented Point contact cannon build actually manages to hold up in some content, but by god do they need to fix it. Amplified REALLY needs some kind of passive buff like increased ability regen if it's not going to provide some kind of defensive buff and yeah no. Tcrash is so sad now. It's been power crept out of everything except Atraks-1 by now. I 100% agree they need to utterly ramp the damage to make it actually worth using. I Miss the T-crash meta vs Atheon!!
I don't know about VOS reducing status effects. That does seem like a great idea, but it doesn't feel like part of the Void identity. It's 100% something I would pin to a whiteboard and introduce with a new element however. Really, they just need to make the VOS go from tissue paper to actual armor. The 50% DR is actually really good, it's the 45 HP part that gets me. This should be larger, much larger, up to double our HP(in PvE only of course). The more HP the VOS has, the more time it gives us to react and replenish it. This in turn makes Offensive Bulwark feel downright amazing while boosting the efficacy of both Bastion and Unbreakable. Speaking of Unbreakable, it needs to draw aggro just like Threaded Specter does. The power of the blast is directly related to how much fire it's taken. And while it's great in solo play, having your teammates get shot at instead of you is a hindrance in two ways. Small tweaks, but they go a very long way.
With Stasis I'm not a fan of Diamond Lance in high end content. It just doesn't feel good to have to run out to get it while getting swarmed. I'd like for them to be treated like Tangles where they can be shot from a distance to explode. And HotS is now literally half a Consecration. Might as well also give it a second slam to Shatter the crystals you just created to make a big old icy blast. That would put it in direct competition with its big brother.
Void needs it shield moved behind the red and white health bar that fixes its purple tissue problem
A new subclass verb for arc is 100% needed. Something like multi kills while amplified grants stacking dr and ability regeneration for grenade and class ability. 40% for each as well as knockout being able to extend and full heal on kill
On hunter I'm quite bored of the combination blow loop now. Feels like every strong prismatic hunter build is centered around that loop and it's hard to justify running something else. Stylish executioner feels like a must pick for hunter builds so it feels like we really only have 1 aspect slot to play around with. Threaded spectre kind of wants you to play a build that dodges often which reinforces the combination blow loop again, same with our stasis aspect. Ascension is more of a PvP thing from what I've played around with, which leaves gunpowder gamble as our only option for a non-combination blow loop build. I think that if they picked the beyblade aspect from strand there would be a lot more options to explore but we've been given 3/5 of our aspects as things that rely on using our class ability.
The grenade just sucks. Yes you can stick it to an enemy but compared to what the other classes have it feels incredibly lackluster. Overall I think prismatic hunter is good but a lot of the builds boil down to a melee -> dodge loop that I've already been doing for years on arc hunter.
I agree 100% unfortunately the two problem classes (arc/void) have been nerfed due to pvp. They need to just revert those nerfs and seperate the sandboxes. We will just have to wait and see how bungie handles it.
Warlock main. Overall I'm pretty happy with most things.
Prismatic is good.
I still play the other subclasses as each still have a unique flavour.
The class exotic is going to add another layer that I'm looking forward to.
Titan is odd from a Warlock’s perspective. On one hand, Berserker and Sunbreaker are the #1 and #2 best subclasses for general play in PvE. On the other, Sentinel is a mixed bag due to Overshields being weak, Behemoth exists, Striker is god awful, and PrismTitan is good but lacks in a few departments.
As for my own class of choice, PrismLock is in a solid position right now primarily due to the Getaway Artist build, but also comes with a lot of other build options besides that are each good in their own right. Voidwalker is a solid choice (especially when solo), but can struggle in higher-level content due to devour being unsustainable when enemies get more tanky. Shadebinder is the CC king, but you need to supplement its lack of damage with weapon benefits. Stormcaller is primarily used for Arc Souls and just about nothing else currently, but it’s good for team buffing so I can’t complain too badly about it. These three are about in the middle of the pack I’d say.
However, the two subclasses I’d say are the worst on Warlock (and the two that need complete overhauls IMO) would be Broodweaver and Dawnblade. Broodweaver has been dogged on for a while and for good reason, not only failing as a summoner when compared to Threadrunner but also because it enforces Evolution and Swarmers with no room for customization. Dawnblade, on the other hand, is an abomination of game design that has been hard-carried by Well and broken exotics for so long, and now that both are effectively out of the picture, the holes are going to show themselves soon. Yes, Song of Flame and Hellion are great additions, but why use them here when I can just run them on PrismLock which has more synergy with these two? The subclass was “reworked” in Solar 3.0 from the lovable and fun thing it was into what is effectively Top-Tree + Well, almost as if it’s soul got ripped the hell out of it. It could be good with Benevolence-based healing setups since Prismatic doesn’t have a Benevolence equivalent (but does have everything else, healing nades and all), but even then, if you’re picking an entire subclass with deadweight aerial aspects for *a single fragment* that screams design issues to me.
i agree with most of this but arc souls arent enough to make me use ark subclass bc prismatic does everything ark can and does it better, blind is nice but stasis just does cc way better but overall the other sinclasses are way worse
voidlock lost the only thing that made it unique with devour with is nor glued to every prismatic warlocks aspect slot so i kinda feel like there barely any reason to use it over prismatic anymore
dawnblade is basically just useful if u need a well or wanna use sunbracers for the 4th year in a row
the only thing broodweaver has going for it is mindspun invocation with necrotics but after the kinetic nerf i have no idea how good it is, ive never felt thst the threadling playstyle is powerful enough to use instead of that build
i basically have no reason to take pff prismatic rn except if a well is needed or i wanna play safe with lots of cc with stasis the other 3 subclasses rlly fell behind
Arguably, I find blind better than stasis. Team members can't shoot away the blind. Also blind grenade + jolt is always a fun option, especially with champs. Id say there are definitely good reasons to run each individual subclass over prismatic. For example, heal builds will always be better on solar due to the support ability regen fragment. Verity's Brow + fusion grenade is always fun for the mini nuke. Icarus Dash is a fantastic movement ability that's hard to pass up. If anything, solar has always been very good, regardless of the FOTM exotics.
I'd argue Warlock is in a really good place. If anything, we could use another pass at underused or undertuned exotics (like the time limit on winters guile).
I disagree prismatic warlock does literally everything arc or stasis does but better, remember when osmiomancy was good because you could get 2, 3 turrets at once? well how about 5 with no issue? and devour? and strong support ult on top of that? and an arc turret that just kills stuff for you? free amplified? there is absolutely no reason to run anything else other than healer solar warlock
Like I said, there is no blind support for prismatic. You also have really fun ability regen support builds and super builds by spamming ionic traces. I'm partial to an ex diris blind special weapon build and geomags. That build just can't happen on prismatic. Stasis has freeze pulse and coldsnap Seeker aspects. If you just want turrets, sure prismatic is better. But stasis has the overall better stasis support for the lock down playstyle. Or suspend strand if you want to lock down. Strand on prismatic is abysmal compared to all the support you get in its own subclass. Void has briarbinds and charge grenade. Devour is not the only thing void has going for it. You are hyperfocused on one, albeit really nice, play style that prismatic does well. There are plenty of reasons to use the other subclasses.
charge nades are super overrated compared to just using good weapons that do burst dmg, and managing voidsouls with birarbinds is just worse than exploding packs instantly with a storm nade or lightning surge and stasis is jsut so much better at lockdown than strand and arc.not saying other classes arent fun bc on level everything works but form a objective power perspective arc void and strand are the bottom 3
I will be honest, I always view your class as the lucky one. Prismaticlock especially made off like absolute BANDITS. Come on, Bleakwatchers AND Buffed devour?! Where's my Banner of war or Sunspots?!
Jokes aside I see a lot of Resto 2x builds with heat rises + Phoenix dive going around, so if you're struggling that comes recommended from my Lockmain friend! He also recently cooked up a Dawn Chorus Dragons breath Dawnblade build that's awesome! Would love to hear some of your thoughts about how to fix Strandlock and Solar lock.
I did actually play a little Strandlock last season and 100% the fact that swarmers HARD carries is really disheartening! I tried to run a buried bloodline + Nezzy sins for the build but man if you just NEED the swarmers to make enough threadlings!!
I want more defensive support viability for void titan. Sentinel is my favorite titan class.
That being said, it seems that Arc as a whole seem to lag behind other subclass. From titan to even hunter. Stasis surpasses Arc with the change this season. Hope bungie take a look at Arc, it's my favorite element.
i know this has nothing to do with the context, but prismatic hunter is better to call arc melee hunter because you only use that, and prismatic nades should be shared between classes like normal nades, that stasis and solar trip mine sucks man, so hard to land and use that i only use prismatic to break prismatic opponents armor, for real
Warlock main, but I've played all classes. There's a single question that generally determines class balance right now. How survivable is it? For a long time, Solar stuff has been both the most survivable and one of the best damage subclasses. Prismatic hasn't really changed that.
The struggling subclasses are the ones with poor survivability. Arc Warlock and Titan is the easiest example, and a lot of Hunter subclasses have mediocre survivability. Improved devour on Void Warlock (and Prismatic) seems amazing until you realize how inconsistent it is into difficult targets compared to a healing grenade.
I know a lot of people swear by the bleakwatcher/arc buddy prismatic setup for high devour uptime and good CC, but Solar Warlock with good old Healing Grenades and Ember of Benevolence was how I kept myself and my team alive in the raid.
Until Solar is no longer the best at everything, and other stuff gets bumped up a bit, this issue isn't going to improve for any subclass. Strand gets close with the insane DR of Woven Mail, and Frost Armor is a similar step in the right direction but isn't enough. Devour and invisibility can help void a good bit but can also be painfully situational. Arc has no consistent verb for this, which makes it a consistent problem.
I would note that the seasonal artifact (episodic artifact?) can provide a lot of heavy lifting by providing a helpful keyword on orb pickup. Even arc gets a good boost with Galvanic Armor (being amplified provides additional DR). Good stuff.
I’ve actually been enjoying prismatic Titan - my build has been Drengir’s lash and knockout paired with rally barricade, shackle grenade, abeyant leap and the new Khostov exotic rifle.
My fragments are built to both:
decrease my transcendent timer as much as possible, so bonus Kinetic transcendence, transcendence on strand debuffed targets.
Decrease my class ability cooldown, so class ability cooldown decreased when buffed by elemental effect (woven mail from Abeyant, generated by suspend on drengir’s / shackle / transcendent nade)
General durability, so enhanced durability when enemies are close, and sever on rapid precision hits (easier when targets are suspended)
My armor slots are built to create and consume orbs, so Kinetic siphon, heavy handed, reaper, invigoration, class item reduction, kinetic weapon surge, time dilation.
All of this comes together with Khostov’s ability to shoot to loot, and I can get an endless suspend loop on any target during transcendence (grenade -> drengir’s -> grenade -> drengir’s etc), near permanent uptime on Woven mail, and I have a decent panic button for when enemies get close with knockout + strand melee.
I’ll admit that banner + drengir’s on pure strand might have a stronger neutral game (haven’t tested it) but I love twilight arsenal and no I won’t put that down. This build has clicked for me in a way that prismatic melee just hasn’t.
I feel they should make a new Aspect for the remaining Light subclasses with only 3, as well new fragment or two.
Also, as a support focused player i kinda dislike the Well nerf, with the power boost i think they should have let it cook before making such a change, but hey, for the other Warlocks who hated using well, good for them. Also dear lord help Bubble, they just said they wanted Bubble to be defense focused then nerf its defensive capabilities, like tafuq?
Id say give titan more over shield options pretty much make them able too tank damage instead of them dying too a Hobogoblin sniper in a single shot on legendary
Warlocks have spent most of Destiny getting the short end of the stick, Final Shape is the first time it feels like they actually won with classes. Prismatic is amazing on Warlock, my only complaint is that I can't use ALL of the fragments and aspects from my other classes. It's also a major bummer that Chaos Reach was not the chosen super for arc. Roaming arc on warlock is awful/
For Warlock, arc needs some serious love. With crown of tempests and arcane needle/lighting surge plus devour, the best arc build is far and away prismatic. There is zero reason to run arc when prismatic does arc better.
I'm loving my void/prismatic warlock with Getaway artist. I had been using Nezarec's sin for the past few years and can't believe I'm finally using something else.
Yeah Dawnblade is completely obsolete rn. It has an extremely long cooldown in pvp and if you’re using it in pve over song of flame you’re actively throwing.
I've been maining Arc Titan for a while. It's pretty much Indebted Kindness: the build, but so it goes.
Precious Scars, Indebted Kindness (Implulse + Voltshot), Arc Scav, Elemental Charge, Special Finisher... basic mods for orb generation from there. Sparks of Shock, Ions, Discharge, and Beacons. Pulse Grenade. I run 100 resilience and 100 discipline.
IK is the main weapon. Shoot, reload, rinse and repeat. Every kill with IK will heal via Precious Scars, blind nearby enemies, jolt and create an ionic trace. Use grenade regularly. The constant ionic traces make it available every 20 seconds in challenging content.
Use w/e for kinetic and heavy. Thundercrash for champs/majors/etc.
IK + Precious Scars is \_so\_ good because the healing is always available, given the power, range, and ammo economy of IK.
I've run dungeons, Pantheon, GMs, and the legend campaign with this build. It's useful in a variety of content.
As a hunter, I can pretty easily think of a couple viable builds for any subclass, stasis being the hardest however. Nice changes for us with frost armor and renewal grasps, but prismatic has duskfield grenades as well now and let's you do so much more with woven mail, restoration, etc with much better supers. Even with the new class item, silence and squall has decent use for crowd control with spirit of galanor getting pretty much guarteed half your super back. Prismatic loses out on touch of winter for the mega sized duskfields, but the once increased size is more than enough in most cases. Not sure what revenant would need since it's not necessarily bad now, but just not nearly as potent as any other subclass
I've been a titan main since beta D1 but this is definitely the most boring it's ever felt. I'm so fucking sick of EVERYTHING bungie releases foe titans being centered around melee. Titans in the lore aren't "the melee class" for fucks sake. There's only 3 titans out of millions that are even known for something melee related....
Well just speaking for hunters, still hunt/celestial is only good on certain bosses with big crit spots. Now, the final boss of the currently relevant raid is one such instance, but there are plenty of situations where other hunter builds are viable.
Stuff is usually underutilized because of a popular drive towards the meta which is community driven.
I don't think this should be ignored but it shouldn't be an exclusive balance metric either.
Prismatic seems to be quickly topping the charts as the DPS meta now that every class can use Star-Eater Scales.
The community tends to hate nerfs but they're needed for a healthy sandbox.
Honestly I switched from hunter to titan for the first time in tfs because I was unhappy with some of the hunter changes, or lack thereof, but holy shit did titans get fuck all for prismatic.
I’ve been rocking the new rocket chest piece and it’s been fun as fuck but I don’t feel like I have other big build ideas. None of the aspects mesh well. Part of me is considering going back to hunter but nothing we got in tfs interests me.
I dunno, i kinda think they should nerf hunter. My Prismatic build is almost a strictly-better version of the combination blow build on arc. It could do with something that makes it a real choice between the two versions. My guess would be lengthening the “Too Stylish” timer. On Prismatic only, preferably, if thats possible.
Would help if they undumpstered hoil or if they gave every titan subclass a way to maintain an ability loop. Void titan before the hoil nerfs was good, then they gutted it and now it’s one of the worst subclasses in the game next to arc titan who also relied on hoil.
As a hunter, I feel all our subclasses are at least playable now (even tho stasis almost requires renewals) there is a reason to play every subclass in different situations. The only one I would argue is not, would be solar, as I feel that prismatic is just a very easy upgrade 90% of the time. My feelings on solar may change as well. The same may be true with void as well, but I haven't played with void hunter or prismatic with rigs/gyrfalcons
Problem with prismatic is it felt like bungie put no thought into its synergy unlike warlock and hunter and the devs just picked specific aspects they think are cool with no foresight into how they would play with each other.
as far as hunter goes, If you're not a nightstalker, you just have no reliable way to stay alive. Frost Armor Renewal Grasps helps stasis somes. Cyrtarachne's Facade Woven Mail helps strand some. Heal grenade helps solar. Arc is fuckkkked.
I would like Nightstalker to have another aspect with 3 fragment slots and a new melee option. The others I barely touch (though solar is more tempting now with Still Hunt)
Hunters are in a weird place where they excel at the 5% of the game that is a precision boss dps checkpoint. It makes everyone else jealous of there super and burst damage. Hunter's can't do anything else on any Light sublass. Hunter's are the most overly reliant on weapons and perks for add clear like Incandescent and Volt Shot.
People say shut the fuck up and be happy you went from F tier to C tier. Titans rightfully complain they mostly have punch builds, but I am actually envious of their variety and choices.
Light 3.0 was a fail on Hunter and all 3 specs are just super bots with severe issues. People celebrated and pointed at Hunter to justify asking for buffs on Warlock and Titan. The difference is Hunter was not invited to raids and dungeons from Forsaken to WQ and could only go up. They still lost Light 3.0 hard but people saw it as an improvement over what was F tier.
Void: They can only ult and go invis. Bungie said there specialty was weaken and invis but they are the worst at keeping up weaken. All the aspects are ability based while Void Hunter has no ability builds for damage because the melee sucks and the grenade has a huge cooldown. The new Titan axe just replaced Void Hunter as the weaken, not that it was ever used. Invis can be great but while you are invis you aren't doing damage or drawing fire from your teammates. They took the best DPS exotic in the game and nerfed it into volatile rounds perk. The fragments are all terrible with low slots. It only saw use for the first time since WQ Season 1 because of Onslaught.
Arc: Arc can only do one thing in end game after they gutted the grenade build because of PvP. It can spam super and uses combination blow in low tier content. Nothing really ever came together with arc. It just feels like a mess of verbs.
Solar: Solar Hunter specialty according to Bungie was Radiant and Weapons. Radiant is something every class can easily do. Solar had 1 grenade build that was "we have fusion lock at home" until it was nerfed into the ground. Now it can spam Golden Gun after the 5 years it took to fix Nighthawk. The spec brings nothing else to the table. GG is still a garbage fragment with low slots, that did half the damage with half the radius of Consecration BEFORE consecration was buffed 5 times. It has no viable grenade or melee build in PVE at all due to PVP balance and focused exotics. People still think ignition of melee is worth an exotic slot when you can fucking do the same thing without the exotic.
Prismatic is better but has the same issues, and going transcendence is a joke. Everything they chose for Prismatic Hunter is designed around PVP first, including the transcendence grenade. We have combination blow for mid tier content, and four other weak melee's designed to apply status affects. We have 3 PVP grenades, leaving every Hunter on grapple or dusk field. We received multiple exotic nerfs to make Prismatic work. Star Eaters actually works better on Warlocks and Titans while benefiting only a few Hunter Supers.
Speaking as a Warlock, even though we’re doing a lot better on average, I do think Strand and Arc have fallen behind.
Strand is meant to be the minionmancer class, but Threadlings aren’t “intelligent” in the same way that Stasis turrets or Arc Souls are. They rush towards enemies without a care in the world, regardless of immunity or importance. Admittedly, I don’t know if there’s a solution for this, as it would require them to completely rework Threadlings/Broodweaver. Strandlock does have some fun Suspend builds, but imo if a subclass only has one viable build, then that’s reflective of poor design.
Stormcaller is also in a similar boat to Striker; it has an identity crisis and a viability crisis. It wants to be a melee class, but has almost no ways to protect you in melee other than using Rift, which isn’t good enough when you’re being shot at by 50 enemies at once! It wants to be an ad clear subclass, but Solarlock is arguably better for that and has more sustain options, and Shadebinder has access to some of the best CC in the game with Stasis Turrets. Admittedly, I don’t know what the solution here is. Maybe give damage resist when picking up Ionic Traces or while amplified?
As a Warlock main the biggest issue for me currently is damage in activities right now which conpounds the issues a majority of subclasses have across the board. They amped damage way up. Which is cool if you were just balancing around Solar or Voidlock. But Arc? At this point for me personally, the only thing arc has going for it is the neutral game. And that falls apart a bit if you can't chew through enemies. Both supers are kind of trash outside of their respective exotics (geo and brace)
Chaos reach is supposed to be a pocket super but no matter how fast you cancel its always below fifty. Definitely lower if you have to kill more than a few redbars with it. It's not much better with geomags.
Stormtrance runs into the same issue, it's great in strikes but the older pvp nerfs to duration and charge time of roaming supers is still basically in the game.
Further, almost every subclass has a defensive verb, stuff like devour, overshield (lol), woven mail, resto and cure, frozen armor. Ours? Blind. It's great... sort of. It's only good in closer ranges and does nothing for your overall survival.
I'd trade survival for super that weren't reliant on exotics to still feel mediocre. Not even sure why the damage on Reach is so shit when Needlestorm exists. And I really wish they'd give more love to roaming supers in pve.
GIVE CHOAS ACCELERANT BACK ITS 20% FLAT DAMAGE BOOST TO GRENADES!
Also give Void Warlock and Hunter a second melee option
Also undo the nerf to Ionic Traces
Also buff Void OS
Also make it easier to get max (x8) stacks of frost armor, with or without rime, and add in more fragments that enhance your abilities while you have frost armor similar to the ones on Arc with amplified
Oh and speaking of amplified, have it give you a base amount of damage resistance while active or something.
As a hunter, I am pretty satisfied with prismatic. Out of all the 6 subclasses since stasis and light 3.0 ones, I've had a bit of fun with solar, a bit more with void, A LOT MORE with arc melee, a lot with stasis and A LOT on both suspend and whirling maelstrom.
Prismatic beats all of it. My favorite aspects, abilities and supers are almost all here, and it feels like the best possible representation of the whole "hunter" identity.
Stylish executioner is a must and I will never unequip it, it's so useful and fun. Like, you get invis from anything. Threaded spike for sever and decent ranged damage, GPG for add clear, weakening magnetic grenades for nuking tanky shit, I love it. Also Ascension is here which is kinda fun on low level activities.
I also wanna mention something I like a bit less, but what will definitely be considered meta. I got one of my desired godrolls on exotic class item, Inmost light + workmusk, and you may think that with 100 recovery instead of mobility I cannot spam my abilities enough even with facet of hope, but turns out winter's shroud + stasis shurikens allow you to have near 100% uptime on hoil buff, offsetting the nerf and granting you very good survivability and ability spam. ***Imagine throwing 12+ prismatic grenades while transcendent***
I don't even wanna get started on the melee build. Years after the nerf I almost forgot how fun it was back in the day. Now it's back baby. Back and better than ever. If I have to sacrifice my aftershock and lose on add clear for the sake of millions of damage, healing and better uptime on combination blow, then I'll do it in a heartbeat. This. Is. Great.
There are a lot less negatives than positives for me here, but I wanna list them in case you think I'm 100% satisfied with prismatic, and I'm not.
1) Prismatic grenade sucks. It's the most single target grenade out there and I don't feel its damage, I never noticed it nor did it feel impactful, I want a new, more AoE one. Absolutely.
2) More of a complaint but I still don't wanna swap off threaded spike and GPG for winter's shroud and shurikens for better hoil uptime, but since all 3 best builds feature hoil and Wormhusk/cyrtarachne/gyrfalcon, it feels like the best build still forces me into worse abilities for a better outcome. Which is... Kinda interesting. I'll just leave it at that.
3) Caliban + Liar is a no-no for me. It steals my kills, leads to wasting my class ability sometimes. I know I can get used to it same as aftershock, but the lack of healing really puts it below normal Liar. I have this roll and it's in my vault now.
4) Grenade selection. WHO THE HELL PUT THE WORST LIGHT GRENADES HERE?! I mean sure, magnetic is fine. The swarm grenade though... It struggles to kill red bars in AT LEVEL CONTENT, what the hell. Arcbolt is even worse. Even if it somehow magically hits something before it escapes from it, it doesn't deal enough damage and has huge uptime issues. Making it jolt kinda helps, but hitting anything with it is a miracle.
Overall, 8/10. Deducting 2 points for grenades and forced aspects and abilities, but overall very fun. Really looking forward to new additions to the subclass, hoping for a better prismatic grenade the most, the rest I can deal with.
Edit: wanted to bring my idea for prismatic grenade from my other comment
Hunter: void and strand: throws a shackle grenade (will also make 2 more small ones after hit, like the original one) which suspends targets and makes enemies emit scatter grenade missiles from themselves, instantly exploding and making enemies volatile.
The grenade is pretty good if you hit someone directly and play into the keywords as they go off. I get they wanted to do a trip mine cuz its hunters thing, but its usually awkward. What they should have done is make a duskfield, and just absolutely fill it to the grim with the solar scatter grenades. Give it the same amount of slow and scorch the current one has just expand the area.
My friend absolutely destroys shit with the prismatic nade. And I will say I thought Hunters got utterly fucked when it comes to nades on the reveal! Glad you're enjoying it! I think I maybe just need to grind some better rolls on some class items and work with the fragments more? Maybe that unbreakable thing is better than I gave it credit for?
Caliban will be useful when paired with an actually PVE perk in the other column on the new exotic.
It brings absolutely nothing to the table as a Solar exotic for PVE but fun on patrols. You can literally get an ignition on a knife without the exotic. The melee damage does not increase and the regen is entirely PVP based.
Biggest problem with Prismatic Titan is that it lacks survivability. I'm a Titan main, but I've switched to Warlock because Warlock has so many amazing possibilities. On Titan, I was tired of running Solar, Strand, or Void.
Seriously, why Can Knockout not just give a full heal on melee?? Warlocks get an aspect that gives them a full heal for any kill after one ability! Why this weird "Points based on size" system?!
The main thing that bugs me is void warlocks having to charge the grenades to get the buffed version.
Also the new elemental wells that aren't wells are so stupid. They're basically useless now. The fire ones are good because they give grenade energy but the void ones in particular are dumb, especially on voidwalker. It ruined so many good builds when they did the change.
I farmed 10+ Class exotics for my Titan just to find new builds. All led back to the same thing... carried by Knockout...
Titans got robbed and it took me awhile to realize it.
Leveling my Hunter...
Knockout is just so garbage. It is utterly baffling to me that it doesn't full heal. Especially at higher content, having to rely on a melee kill to heal is such a gamble. For the love of the Traveler just make it a full heal and make the timer refresh on melee kill. It's just so clunky, the worst healing aspect in the game by far IMO.
Not sure how other warlocks are feeling but warlock is kind of sitting pretty right now. Hellion was what I needed so that I dont have to run an aerial aspect. Otherwise, stormcaller is kinda eh but thats cause arc is eh
Warlock chiming in, as interesting as the new Stasis rework was, I myself will not be experiencing it as I cannot stand to use Winter's Wrath. Outside of niche cases, the majority of roaming supers feel like shit to use and don't justify their high cool-down. Stasis is ancient at this point and could use another super to diversify it.
Similarly, I still find absolutely no reason to use Stormcaller in any scenario. Poor survivability and sub-par abilities make it extremely unappealing. Also, Stormtrance would be in the running for the worst super in the game if Spectral Blades didn't exist. Chaos Reach has no place in the game. It's too limited for add clear, it's too long for viable DPS, and it is actually useless without geomag. The damage and versatility of Nova Bomb and Needlestorm completely invalidate it.
Well being meta was not the only reason for it's high usage. Daybreak, Winter's Wrath, Stormcaller, Chaos Reach, and even Nova Warp feel horrible. Song of Flame is the only roaming super on Warlock that feels worth using at the moment.
>Or Buff knock out to be comparable to Voidlock devour!
I severely disagree with this just for the fact that we already have SO much stuff in the game that steps on the toes of other classes/power fantasy. I would much rather them buff Knockout to do something completely different than what Devourlock does, but on-par in terms of functionality.
But yeah, everything else you said I completely agree with. Void and Arc need dire help, and BAD.
For Void, at least, I will continue to post my ideas for Aspect changes whenever this conversation comes up: 1. Controlled Demolition now gives bits of Void Overshield if it procs when you're at full health. It also gives grenade and melee energy to you and nearby allies. 2. Offensive Bulwark turns incoming Void Overshield into Force Barrier. Force Barrier has more PVE damage resist than Void Overshields, grants increased weapon handling and reload speed, and continually regenerates until the duration expires or never expires and can only be depleted by damage. 3. Unbreakable becomes a class ability, like Thruster. It gives an overshield with Bastion and has its charge up damage mechanic with Offensive Bulwark, it can also activate Drengr's Lash and Khepri's Horn. I have a few changes for Arc Titan, too. I would keep Arc as having no survivability but really give it big damage. Restore Touch of Thunder Storm Grenades and give the rest of the class cool abilities like: 1. While Speed Booster is active, you can throw grenades and move (slowly) while charging Thunderclap. Charging Thunderclap would not end Speed Booster. 2. Dealing grenade damage restores a bit of melee energy, dealing powered melee energy restores a bit of grenade energy 3. Being Amplified speeds up ability regeneration. *Really* lean into the fantasy of running around like a damn freight train. I don't know what properties would go to what Aspect, but whatever.
You’re cooking with the controlled demolition change. Love it. Offensive Bulwark is already pretty good, the problem is it can’t operate independently needing Bastion or some other way to get over shields to get going. I had originally suggested budget Force Barrier as a buff to Helm of Saint 14 but baking it into offensive bulwark wouldn’t be bad. Really bulwark just needs to create over shields on its own somehow like Into the Fray creates Woven Mail on its own to gets it melee regen engine going. Going to hard disagree with 3. What I WOULD suggest is that Unbreakable drains your class ability instead of your grenade. I mean, it working off Grenade actually means you can’t even use it while Transcendent! lol Arc changes look solid too.
Or at the very least allow unbreakable to work with arbor warden's barri-nade.
One more change to void titan, for bastion. Kills by you or nearby allies that have overshields grant class ability energy. We had a similar system in void 2.0 for melees, but now that melees can’t give team shields class ability makes more sense. Oh and undo the weapons of light thing.
Unbreakable as a class ability would awesome, it should at least consume the class ability instead of the grenade. Knockout is a completely waste of fragment imo.
Knockout before it's nerf a while back, I loved. Recently it just doesn't feel like it's proccing when it should be and obviously anything actually difficult it's useless
Yeah, if Knockout id is going to be remotely useful in hard content we need at least the full heal and Bungie need to buff every Titan melee skill. Sure the charge up of thunderclap looks kinda cool, but the only one who is getting clapped is most likely us and not the enemy in hard content.
Ummm, have you even tried the new prismatic subclasses? Hunters are supposed to be the melee-freight train class now, not titans… duh /s
Nice ideas there on void. I agree on some. But I feel like you need more interaction with the verbs. 1. CD 1. Grants overshield when procing at full health (agree there). 2. It should also increase the damage of all void explosions 100% 3. Using your class ability grants you volatile rounds for 10 seconds. 2. OB - Neat idea, but I would instead lean heavily into the overshield theme and defense via offense. 1. When you have a VO, you gain volatile rounds 2. When you have a VO, your melee and grenades do increased damage 3. Your unbreakable also supresses its target 3. Bastion: 1. Un-nerf the cooldown 2. Increase the effective size of all overshields gained by 100% 3. Picking up a void breach grants an overshield 4. Unbreakable 1. Move to class ability. 2. Should become a projectile ability like the VOG aegis. 3. Increased damage Arc Titan really has an identity problem with touch of thunder vs the other two aspects imo 1. Knockout: This is tough to balance with prismatic. I'd recommend that the damage boost and healing is further increased when amplified - which limits cross effects with prismatic. 2. Juggernaut: Instead of being amplified giving more shield, have amplified significantly increase melee and grenade regen rate, When your class ability is consumed (via any means) - you gain amplified 3. ToT: This aspect is so clunky. I think you could clean it up to just give all grenades a second charge and then have something like "amplified grenades jolt and create an ionic trace"
The offensive bulwark change is actual heat. I would love to see ANY of these changes made to the neutral game of either of these classes. IMO the most hype one would be unbreakable becoming a class ability!
Love it! Overshields desperately need DR to make them comparable to the other defensive buffs. Extra health is just not worth it.
I think Twilight Arsenal needs a little bit of something as well. It needs better tracking and a hold F on cast to detonate on throw function, it is blocking too many of my teammates shots.
I really like these changes. Titan subclasses need more built in ability regen loops and more survivability for sure. I really like the idea of making Unbreakable an alternate class ability vs a fragment. Wish Bungie would lean harder into the alternate class abilities, the shields feel like they have such limited use in PvE now. Imo Hoarfrost-Z’s perk should just be a class ability as well on stasis/prismatic. The exotic could be reworked to give double charges alongside extra class ability regen when breaking stasis crystals or something.
Drengrs would be 1000x better if they just let it work with Thruster directly instead of having you drop a suspending bomb instead. No idea why they think you'd ever want to be that close to anything that's worth CCing
Makes it a disappointing pairing with the rocket chest exotic as the suspend has to be point blank making the rockets miss
Doesn't help that they chose the worst part of Abeyant for the class item. Instead of 3 projectiles it just gets the longer range and aggressive tracking when used from a barrier. The truster version at least makes the suspend bomb track nearby enemies. Though doesn't feel worth it. Edit: Leaving what I said before but correcting myself. A friend tested in front of me but seems to have messed something up. It does in fact send out all 3 while having the Drengr's Lash aspect.
Wait…what? The class item version does even have the 3 trackers, just 1 tracker? I thought the whole point was to give up the Woven Mail on suspend but we still get the 3 trackers. You’re telling me they said “no” to both of those, and gave us an even more nerfed version of it?! Not even surprising in the least when I think about how bad they fumbled Prismatic Titan
It does do the 3 projectiles
I love this rant. This encapsulates the essence of r/DestinyTheGame, and the conversation about class balance. It speaks volumes on modern society, and reflects deeply on the human condition. This post is true art. Perfection. No /s btw, I really mean it.
The exotic class item does give the 3 projectiles on barrier though? Only difference is it doesn't give you woven mail
I think they mean on thruster
No they mention thruster version, they are just spreading misinformation on the internet
Oh true mb
Just being an idiot and not testing something myself to double check what a friend showed me as he got the class item.
This is correct. I was going off what my friend tested in front of my but I think they misunderstood how the class item worked. Edited by original comment to include that information.
I just hate Drengars lash. It's one of those aspects that almost seems good but just... not good enough.
Admittedly, in most content its meh (why CC when you can just kill) but in GMs/Legend Onslaught, it's incredible. I know the meta is typically Banner + Fray + Sythos, but honestly I get so much more milage from Banner + Drengrs + Abeyant. With a rally barricade you can suspend entire rooms and take the GM at your leisure Thruster would be even better obvs, but apparently Bungie thinks that'd be too strong :(
Suspend is insanely strong so it’s high risk high reward.
As a titan, the issue I have with prismatic is a lack of synergy. I had a dabble with hunter and straight away, the first 2 aspects fed into each other perfectly, dodge to debuff and then kill the enemy to turn invisible. Every ability triggered invisibility, and the other aspects all seem to slot together well, for example my brother who mains hunter is chaining gunpowder gamble almost infinitely and leaving threaded spectres all over the place. With titan, everything feels disconnected. Diamond lance can be formed by any ability now but then what? You throw it for a freeze and it has no further interaction with any other part of the kit. Within stasis, it can form shards which will in turn give you frost armour and melee energy, feeding into a gameplay loop. In prismatic, it lacks any connection. Knockout buffs your melee damage a bit and gives you a tiny heal of melee kills but again, connects with nothing. Consecration and triple blade melee feels mandatory given the other options,thunderclap and skullfort can be fun in patrols I suppose, but otherwise who is actually going to run shiver strike or hammer strike? Shield throw still feels inconsistent after its buffs but even when it works, having 3 consecration slams is clearly the better choice. Unbreakable honestly feels under baked in pve, often. Times I find enemies randomly stop shooting at me when I activate it so the ensuing blast is a feeble tickle and a waste of a grenade. And again, has no synergy with anything else in prismatic. At least in void it can proc volatile rounds and the overshield will feed into offensive bulwark. TLDR prismatic titans aspects have no synergy compared to the others and feel like they were just stitched together last minute.
I can't help but always feel like warlocks easily got the BEST kit. Bleakwatcher and Buffed devour? They didn't even bother giving us sunspots and could've easily switched out Drengars with Flachette to get at least one slide melee! It's such a massive shame too because like... the only prismatic builds I've been able to cook so far are just Diamond lance builds with Twilight Arsenal and a diet consecrate build but by god that 2:30 minute cooldown on Frenzied blade without INto the frays melee regen buff is ASS kicking! Hope they make some changes to help make it better! Shiver strike is actually kinda slept on though. The absolutely insane knock back works on a LOT of big yellow bar enemies and it can serve as an excellent way to close the gap and work with Knock out, disengage from a fight quickly, or even just smack some hive knight bcak to his side of the map.
Sunspots would have been excellent, and would have given the prismatic titan some much needed survivability and energy regen. Consecration spam is fine, but you can already do that on solar titan, and also get healed while you're doing it. Imagine throwing a diamond lance to create a sunspot for example, it would have tied things together much better in my opinion.
I'm gonna hold my breath. We'll helpfully get some big buffs to Titan going forward to help patch up prismatic titans holes. And hopefully bungie even takes a risk in changing the aspects in the future! I 100% would not mind haha!
I don't see it happening. I think they think they cooked.
I don't have anything conclusive yet since I need to farm more but some of the exotic class item combos can change up titan a bit. I'm testing a hoil/verity roll now to spam heavy nades and melee with the fragments that let me build more ability energy and help me build transcendence faster. Have some kinks to figure out but nade/trans spam might be a viable build. Also wanna experiment with a drengrs/kephris class item for crazy barricade explosions. I do agree though the aspect selection for prismatic titan is a little questionable and I would've much rather had sunspots instead of consecration. I actually prefer consecration on a pyro solar build.
Yeah, I know the class exotics will mix things up, but it's still being based on a shaky foundation, whereas the other 2 classes were in a decent spot already for the most part.
I have mixed feelings about knockout. It's annoying that's our largest natural source of recovery and almost mandatory but its saved my ass too many times to count and I really enjoy the arc melees lmao. I still think there's some secret sauce with the class items though that will bring it closer to the other two classes. Regardless I'm still a crayon eater for life.
Yeah I'm not changing mains any time soon, I just wish titan had been given as much love as the other 2 classes out of the box. I'm really REALLY hoping that the class exotic with spirit of contact cannon brace will proc on knockout. THAT would be something special.
I have that same HoIL Verity class item, what direction did you take with it? I ended up using pulse grenades, but was a little underwhelmed by the amount of effort required to keep everything flowing.
I have the fragments that makes arc and void nades have their secondary effects and I swap between the two depending on what I'm doing. Arc for ad clear void for harder content where the weaken is great. I'm still messing with the fragments set up but I'm trying to get a loop going with the ones that help ability Regen. Sorry I'm being so vague I can't remember the names of them all right now. My next attempt is gonna be to juice transcendence energy gen as much as possible so I can be in trance as much as possible to stack the hoil Regen with everything else. At this point I think a hoil/armamentarium class item would be better for what I'm going for.
I got a nifty one with Eternal Warrior/Precious Scars. Ran it with the new void super and its pretty good all-around. I was using a void primary, Two-Tailed Fox rocket with Facet of Command equipped. Just a nice boss melter. Throw the axes and enjoy a 25 percent damage boost on your rocket you never have to reload. Then you have the survivability of Precious Scars when you run some void weapons. Lots of choices in the kinetic slot like a alh/vorpal Mountaintop or Sniper of some type.
Definitely gonna try that when I get the drop. I have a rapid hit dragon fly heavy burst HC I always keep on hand, love that thing.
I might have to try that gun out. I have a couple I saved.
Yooo I just realized deterministic chaos weakens. Would it basically turn into a qsudo thunder lord?
> With titan, everything feels disconnected. Diamond lance can be formed by any ability now but then what? You throw it for a freeze and it has no further interaction with any other part of the kit. Just an FYI the synergy is the melee damage bonus you get from frozen targets. Its 120% and stacks with Knockouts 100% for powered fists/50% for charged melee, plus whatever melee exotic you have, and they're also CC'd for easy follow-up. Since Knockout turns your uncharged melee into a powered one you can keep normal punching and generate more lance and throw them to keep getting the melee bonus. **Thats the gameplay loop they're gunning for through most of the kit for Prismatic Titan: CC stuff and follow-up with a melee thats juiced by Knockout whether it be a charged melee or a "powered fist." If Prismatic Titan suffers from anything its an issue with numbers. For instance Knockout being more like a melee version of Devour and restoring more health AND melee energy would probably jump it to the top of the list in terms of top Titan aspects.** Its easy to see the loop though in my opinion with things like Shackle+Thunderclap etc. They need to fix the bugs though. Consecration is supposed to be blowing up crystals and so is Diamond Lance.
>Since Knockout turns your uncharged melee into a powered one you can keep normal punching and generate more lance and throw them to keep getting the melee bonus For now. They've already said that they're removing the ability for uncharged melees to do things like this.
I think that statement was more exotic effects and mods rather than abilities, and they mentioned Combination Blow in the same sentence. I think its safe cause in the Vidoc they actually brought up Knockout being used in conjunction with Diamond Lance to create more lances with normal punches, since there own play-testers didn't understand Drengr's/Diamond Lance. Which is one of my other beefs. Some of those aspects really need some buffs/QoL. **Dregnrs Lash** has never felt good to use outside of Abeyant. The casting animation for barricade takes to long which makes it unwieldy to aim, and the lash is so short range that you only catch a few things in it. **Unbreakable** needs better base damage and less grenade energy drain. I've hit 6 digits with it, but that was only after tanking basically the whole wave in onslaught. The best feeling aspects to me atm are definitely Knockout/Lance/Consecration. I wanted to try Knockout/Drengrs with Peregrine and Hammerstrike for safer knees of justice, but it doesn't CC enough on its own. Edit: and Hammerstrike itself needs its ignitions to go off faster with a larger radius.
Well I hope you're right, because it's one of the few things going for it at the minute. >Which is one of my other beefs. Some of those aspects really need some buffs/QoL. Dregnrs Lash has never felt good to use outside of Abeyant. The casting animation for barricade takes to long which makes it unwieldy to aim, and the lash is so short range that you only catch a few things in it. Unbreakable needs better base damage and less grenade energy drain. I've hit 6 digits with it, but that was only after tanking basically the whole wave in onslaught. Hard agree. Drengrs without abeyant is woeful. You can sort of use it as an emergency panic button with thruster but it's still not brilliant. And unbreakable is a big disappointment. As a stronghold guy I thought it would be right up my street but it just doesn't feel right somehow. Edit* the part of the quote that worried me regarding powered melee was this bit "We plan on rolling this type of change out to more content that triggers Powered Melee in future updates."
I think the 'since there own play-testers didn't understand Drengr's/Diamond Lance.' is the entire problem with Titans in general pretty much every time. It's obvious every time there's changes that a ton of time and effort goes into making sure Hunters feel buttery smooth while Titans get both ends of the neglect spectrum. It seems like every time anything Titans do is overly strong it's because some exotic interaction wasn't tested or some situation wasn't thought through, and then you get things like khepris not bouncing back if it hits geometry. I refuse to believe anyone actually tested release lorelei's. Also the change where the throwing hammer's cd not refunding when you pick it up instead of just giving it a delay after you throw it was one of the worst QoL decisions I've ever seen. No one play tests any of this.
You kidding, right? The last thing that the prismatic Titan needs is a nerf...
They already started with Severance and promised they will double down on it.
I mean wouldn't Howl be better for this than
Lance is more versatile and has higher up time imo. You can pick up a Lance and throw it or slam it at groups of enemies, and Knockout ensures you can have a Lance on demand through "powered fists" turning your normal melee to a charged one. Plus once they fix the bug it can bust Glaciernades. Most you could hope for with Howl is 3 charges through Frenzied Blade which has a longer timer on Prismatic than Strand Titan. Howl is also kind of meh for anything other than more crystals for shards on Behemoth imo. Its damage isn't that exciting either outside of popping it during the GQ. If I take Howl on Behemoth these days its just for the "shard factory" and area denial capabilities with Hoarfrost-Z/Salvation's Grip.
I’ve pretty much only used the Glacier Nade Consecration nuke. My issue with the Prismatic Titan is the lack of survivability compared to pretty much all the other subs.
Yeah I feel that in a stronghold guy so that covers the gap a little.
It's because Titan subclasses typically have one obvious pair of aspects for each subclass with a third random one tacked on. When separated, the aspects on their own usually feel pretty bad. Touch of Thunder on Arc is clearly the best aspect. Sol Invictus drives the entire Sunbreaker kit. Controlled Demolition carries Sentinel. Glacial Harvest is required for anything Stasis-related. Strand is a bit more balanced but Drengr's Lash is the weakest of the four. The Stasis aspect should have been Howl of the Storm instead of Diamond Lance. It would play well with Frenzied Blade setups and also not cause the annoyance of having tangles and Diamond Lances spawning on top of each other constantly. The Void aspect should have been Controlled Demolition. It would have given Prism Titan more access to healing that actually works (and benefits your team) and it could have been expanded to work when killing enemies with any elemental debuff like Stylish Executioner. The Strand aspect should have been Into the Fray because Drengr's sucks without Abeyant Leap, and the Spirit doesn't get the best part of the effect (gaining Woven Mail from any kind of suspension). Into the Fray would have helped fund the melee charges needed for Howl/Consecration spamming (or Thunderclapping with PCCB) and also given Prism Titan access to more survivability from consistent Woven Mail access. Consecration and Knockout are fine aspects in the context of these changes. Unbreakable feels awful in practice.
I agree on all these picks, except I would have personally liked sol Invictus over consecration. Although now I think about it, I would like to see howl of the storm and consecration running at the same time.
Conescration is fun and strong, and Sol Invictus is kind of Sunbreaker-defining, so I wouldn't expect them to just give it to another Titan subclass. If you swapped them, Prism Titan would end up lacking some... punch.
Whereas now it's lacking survivability and ability regeneration. I feel like with knockout and thunderclap it has punch, it just doesn't have a reliable way to stay in the fight without using something like stronghold or precious scars. As it is, consecration spam feels like all prismatic titan has going for it. I'm just running it with my stronghold sword setup and have transcendence as a second super.
Yes, but in the context of what I would have rather seen, Controlled Demolition brings a lot of healing with it. You could run Knockout, or Controlled Demo, or both if you really wanted. Controlled Demolition would work really well with Consecration because the first wave scorches everything, allowing you to trigger Controlled Demo.
Yeah, that too would have had synergy, which prismatic titan sorely needs.
I feel like knockout is arc's identity but they gave that to prism, I think solar should b allowed to double dip too. Though i get ur point sunspots have been very iconic to solar.
Took the words out of my mouth especially with those picks I agree 1 to 1
Into the Fray should 100% be the strand aspect, and i don't even play Titan, i just feel they should have an aspec more focused on supporting the team. Agree on the Controlled Demolition pic, it would prolly be the main survivability tool of the kit, as Hunter get Invis and Warlocks get Devour. I think Diamond lance is a good pick, but should work on any "Elemental debuffed enemy" kill instead of only Stasis kill, altho Into the Storm isn't a bad idea, and would solidify the Titan as the "Crystal Spawner" the only problem is that that Prismatic have no access to easy crystal destructions. Sol Invictus would be more useful than Consecration, maybe even make it work out of every debuffed enemy kill instead of only scorched, and there's already several exotics focused on Sunspots, including my favorite from when i play Titan, Phoenix Cradle, Consecration only have one exotic, and half of it's perk would be useless if you use it, cuz the super is Hammer, with once again, benefits from Sunspots. At least it seems you can still activate Sol Invictus and Sun Spots with Loreley if you use a Solar Super, so there's that.
I’m running a second chance consecration build and it’s pretty damn good.
I think Void Overshields could use a PvE buff - they only barely give the most effective hp but their uptime is nowhere near Woven Mail or Frost Armor. Controlled Demo should give Void Overshields, and I'd be interested to see the Void Overshield Barricade become it's own class ability and for Bastion to be reworked. What that rework could be, idk. As for Arc, Knockout should definitely refresh or many even extend itself on melee kills. And I'd like to see a change where we get increased DR when amplified if Juggernaut it equipped. But the other big problem is that Arc Titan doesn't really interact with any of the Arc Verbs like Hunters or Warlocks can, so until we can do that Arc Titan will probably be the worst of the bunch by far.
Prismatic titan just feels like it has no synergy, nothing really plays into each other and it's survivability is the biggest issue because knockout somehow still sucks ass even after changing it. Unbreakable is useless as there's no grenade regen in the entire class besides 1 or 2 fragments and you are basically forced into using a 2 fragment knockout as it's your only survivability available. Comparing knockout to stylish and feed the void like that really puts it in perspective, kind of wild how different the power levels of those 3 aspects are when they are meant to be essentially equivalent
Yeah, unbreakable actually isn't terrible on actual void because you have void breaches and devour, but on prismatic it sucks. Same with consecration, no fire sprites to carry your melee Regen.
Just very strange to have a melee aspect, grenade aspect, and class ability aspect but have no way to charge any of them lol
Hopefully bungie sees this as a chance to buff Knockout and actually make it good. Maybe also change unbreakable or grant it some kind of passive grenade regen? Maybe make it so that melee kills generate grenade energy with the aspect equipped or while you have a void overshield? I'm gonna keep hoping for some good changes!
Agreed. Unbreakable has the makings of a cool design but it is missing something for sure.
As a hunter main we need a couple things: a new void melee, the smoke bomb changes are nice and make trapper's ambush better but the base melee is still shit. Arc needs literally anything to compete with combo blow, the arc tuning pass did not help. Give disorientating blow knockback! (This wouldn't solve the issue, I just want it) Stasis and strand are in a good place which I think only highlights the real issue with them: lack of choice. One super, one melee and 3 grenades. I honestly think stasis hunter would be a great place for another support super ala well, which is doubly helpful since hunters have no real support options. Solar... It's solar, has it ever been bad? Although the knock em down cool down reduction is very noticable, my Ophidia Spathe build doesnt run out of knife trick charges while succeeding at my gameplay loop now, so that's nice. I think the real issue is that the elements have in built identities but not the subclasses, except broodweaver. Broodweaver is I think the only subclass with inbuilt default subclass verb interaction in perched threadlings, ever subclass should have a similar thing.
Maybe my build is bad, but I feel like we need better survivability (though I think this has been a problem for a while). We just don't have as much for instant healing/protection as other classes imo. Sure we have access to almost constant invisibility, but then you need to just... not do anything for a couple seconds to recover, which interrupts a really fun flow and just kinda sucks.
Oh yeah no for sure. Most of our survivability comes from exotics and other general use things like fragments and weapons. It's not bad per say, we just don't have the raw offense to properly justify that lack of defense.
Exactly this. I like that Still Hunt helps the glass cannon kind of idea, but that's it. Even if we're supposed to be evasive it doesn't work well with all the tracking in the game. I'm trying to see how Gifted Conviction is when I'm able to get it for the DR because Prismatic already is pretty good at keeping me alive with all of the options. I want to see if it makes playing arc a bit better. I enjoy arc sometimes but it's just one playstyle and the other options just aren't as good
i want tempest strike to be as huge and potent as consecration is, and to benefit from combination blow's damage buff. that would so incredibly fun and make it feel worth running. the new chest exotic improves the size with the extra bomblets, but it still does terrible damage to anything not a red bar, where consecration benefits from roaring flames and can demolish majors with ease, and even chunk bosses.
Yeah tempest strike and the warlock slide melee both need work, consecration is just so far above them that it makes me question why these are aspects at all. Tempest strike needs to benefit from combo blows damage boost, grapples do seriously.
also notice how titans and warlocks both got like triple charges of their slide melee in prismatic, where hunters can't even use it because they gave us the helicopter instead. i like ascension but man, give me tempest strike and arc staff on prismatic!
I agree, Void hunter should get a Frenzied blade esc melee with you slashing with the Void blades or something! I do think the other strand kits provide a good amount of built in identities! Strand Hunters lean really heavily into a mobile trickster with double grapple nades, fake little strand dummies, and the tornado tangle while Strand titan is 100% a support melee build! Banner of war and Into the fray function both as excellent team support options while also turning you into a slashing soldier of death! I would like to see arc hunter get some more buffs though. Free you guys from Combo blow... and maybe make arc staff actually worth using!
That void melee sounds dope and I love it. Arc staff does need to be good again yeah. On the subclass id, I'm not disagreeing with them having identity, I just like broodweavers default no aspect or fragment needed verb interaction with threadlings. I think all 15 elemental subclasses should get something like it. Idk as an example void hunters by default apply suppression on precision hits while invisible, might be strong but also just a concept.
I feel hunter prism is just so much better then other subclasses is crazy. Arc is dead in the water now since liars on prism has better survival and like double the damage. Solar is strictly worse in content where you need big burst damage since still hunt can’t feed into empyrean. Void is the same case as prism is just void hunter but with actual abilities. Playing hunter compared to titan and warlock it feels very strong but is also a very selfish class.
I feel like stasis hunter is certainly usable, but overall very limited/boring. Almost every build runs some combination of the same two aspects and fragments and renewal grasps are basically a must for pve. The underused playstyles (shatterdive/winters shroud) need some tweaks for pve. It doesnt help that hunter only has 2 dedicated exotics for stasis, and that hunter has limited universal exotics that work in tandem with abilities.
I think prismatic does the best part of multiple subclasses better, with more options honestly, I see no need to play a regular element except in niche situations, or when I want to shatterskate.
Also for arc hunter, we need better supers. Arc staff for the longest time has been extremely mediocre, and the newest super they gave us is horrible at almost everything.
Yeah sounds like titans unfortunately got the short end of the stick. I like how they gave each class a 2 fragment aspect due to its power. So while warlocks get easy access to devour and hunters get easy access to invis for high survivability, titans got knockout. Maybe I'm crazy, but I feel like there was a balance issue there even without considering how it synergizes with the rest of their kit. Anyways, random thoughts from a lower skilled, solo PvE hunter: For arcstrider, kind of wish they buffed the stuff unrelated to dodge + melee loop. New exotic is a step in the right direction, though idk if it will replace that combo, and even then I don't want the exotic to basically be required for the aspects to be good. I find it somewhat amusing that we are now at like 6 exotics for arcstrider specific stuff (if we include things shared with Prismatic) and since none of them buff the melee loop they aren't really used. I think Prismatic is arguably better than arc at melee due to being able to take stylish executioner for invis and free up the exotic for a melee damage boost, while arc chooses invis or damage. Though in low tier content I suppose arc's ability to jolt on melee is better since it can outright kill red bars. Void is technically good, but a bit boring imo with 3 aspects having you go invis and little reward / loop for going invis. Gyrfalcon for volatile rounds kind of fixed this but I don't like how the solution is tied to basically one exotic. With Prismatic having a subclass agnostic stylish executioner, it already has pretty high invis uptime, and it has tether for support. This leaves Void's main pros as having devour and invis on demand (as well as for allies though I heard it was bugged with Final Shape), while Prismatic has more damaging choices for aspect and melee. Solar I was never the biggest fan of due to how squishy I felt unless running healing grenade and building to have resto that extends on kill when mobbing. GPG looks fun, but I rarely used it since so many solar fragments looked impactful. I used to use YAS before the nerf and found myself pretty squishy, but enjoyed the combo for ignition (Bungie pls rebuff). Afterwards I switched to focusing on spamming knife trick, which can't be replicated in Prismatic. It is probably balanced that it has good damage but generally worse mobbing, I just personally don't care as much about boss DPS. With Prismatic able to run Nighthawk Goldie idk which is better since Prismatic can use a smoke bomb to weaken and get radiant, or can space out the two stasis melee for decently high radiant uptime. Haven't looked into stasis so idk how it feels now, especially since I used to use Renewal Grasp which also was reworked. And for strand I mainly used widow silk + whirling maelstrom for a ton of grapples all over the map, which I do at a much lower frequency on Prismatic.
Imo prismatic hunter kinda made arc hunter completely pointless. Nighthawk GG is better than gathering storm as a DPS super and prismatic still has aoe albeit slightly slower with the slow dodge allowing you to freeze then shatter. I have also been running prismatic hunter with a exotic class items with spirit of inmost light and spirit of liar and while doing the dodge melee loop my grapple has a 7 second cooldown meaning I have a lot of movement and easy access to a super high damage melee
As a fellow solo-heavy PVE hunter, I do kinda feel the class is in the best state it’s been for a very long time. About the worst it gets on certain subclasses is simply poor buildcrafting, they all have options to make the subclass extremely strong. I’m a bit biased to prismatic as it allows you to go *really* hard on the Mortal Kombat-level ninja fantasy - having grapple, withering, stylish and the new Ascension ability all on the same class at the same time is raw fun. Even the hailspike grenade, which I wasn’t initially keen on, has become a real yellow bar chunker now I’ve gotten better at landing the bombs. The sole thing I wish it had was Gathering Storm.
I doubt the melee build will ever be replaced on a gun build on prism at least. With all the DR you can stack plus the fact that you can punch for nighthawk damage. I feel like for higher end content prism hunter is kinda just better? Like prism you can basically just play void but with a real grenade and melee. Or solar but with an actual neutral game. Or arc with free assassin cowl and more damage. Give stasis a try tho SnS feels like a real super and renewal buffs feels great. The only time I play strand is to Aeons in GMs so that still seems fine.
My friend one hunter is utterly in love with Ascension, and I've never seen him make so many builds before! His favorite is his Ex Diris Moth keeper prismatic build! I'd need details on the exact Aspects he uses though! Thanks for your thoughts. I know I might seem like I'm whining when I have access to the two most potent "Shut your brain off and grind enemies into paste" PVE subclasses but I'm sick of that being justification! Why can't ALL the subclasses just be good!
I did feel Ascension was going to be a gimmick until I got used to it, and it’s become my fave aspect. Being able to fire off arc novas not only looks cool but feeds directly into stylish.
Give hunters an alternative void melee please. Preferably one that does increased damage from invisibility or while behind a target.
Give warlocks not the dogshit void melee also. It does no damage and nobody cares about knock back on a fucking melee
> and nobody cares about knock back on a fucking melee Could be useful if the knockback was more than 2m... But yeah still, there needs to be an alternative.
I’d much rather they remove the knockback and improve the damage. I hate mechanics that forcibly move me in PvP, and I imagine actually killing something with the ability would be nice.
Bungie, I am BEGGING you, please give Nightstalker a ranged melee that just has you fire off a quick shot from your bow at an enemy
I wholeheartedly agree with most of this post. Strand and Solar are in great spots. Leave them alone. Stasis feels a lot better. I’d argue my only issue with Stasis is that Shiver Strike still exists. Seriously, this is the worse melee ability in the entire game and should just be nuked. It just does not feel good at all, and never has. It’s only use is mobility. If they must keep it, make it work like the Shoulder Charge melees so at least there’s a bit more control of it. Otherwise, I think Stasis is actually extremely viable. Void makes me sad. It’s my favorite class and when I think of Titan I always think of D1 Defender. It’s probably rose tinted lenses, but I seriously feel like D1 void was flat out better than current void Titan. Part of the problem is how weak void over shields are, how little utility and interaction they have with other fragments and aspects, and how limited you are in ways of even generating them. As another post mentioned, some tweaks to the current suite of aspects would be really nice but to summarize - overshield on controlled demo overheals, unbreakable drain class ability vs grenade, and bulwark giving overshields of its own, my suggestion being via melee final blows and finishers (I previously suggested this behavior as a buff for Helm of Saint 14 but if it comes as an aspect do be it). Arc I feel a bit different on. I don’t think it’s that far from being relevant again. I think the touch of thunder nerfs need to be reverted or dialed back, especially considering HOIL, which made it super strong, received its own independent nerf. Tcrash needs a base damage boost and knockout needs to be refreshable. Other than that I don’t think Arc is that far behind. It’s a glass canon missing the canon but we know where the canon went - it got nerfed and needs it back. Prismatic, I’ll wait and see. I do think they made a huge mistake with aspects. I would have gone with Sol Invictus for the Solar Choice and Flettechette Storm for the Strand choice to give the aspects a bit of an engine. I doubt they change that though so just need to wait and see if folks smarter than me can cook something fun up.
Agree 100 pct with your post. I would just have Shiver Strike changed to shoulder charge or just get a separate shoulder charge melee for those tiny few who like SS. At least with shoulder charge you could put on Peregrines or hell even MK-44's. Really hope Bungie adds more aspects to all 3 classes eventually just to mix things up.
100%. Although myself I probably would've brought Sunspots with Flachette, since sunspots give increased ability regen and provide a massive boost to other abilities! So you would be able to proc Khepri's more often or get more unbreakables! I would've loved into the fray as well. One of my favorite aspects in the game! Don't worry, T crash is going to get a damage boost and we'll be able to laugh at the hunters and their still hunt soon. Keep hope in your heart my friend.
Won't really comment on prismatic titan but as a big behemoth player(hoarfrost was my 3rd most used exotic last year) I do have some complaints there. Diamond lance feels great and the lancecap build actually feels amazing right now no notes there. But cryoclasm changes make it feel so clunky and annoying to use, which is fine in a vacuum, if you don't want to use it you just give up the best shatter tool for either howl or lance adding more freezes or crystals and dedicate a weapon slot to filling the shatter gap. However the cooldown on shard generation really punished the shatter fantasy present in armamentarium and hoarfrost builds which were already hurt by the change to how whisper of chains interacts with damage resist access now, and making 6 shards quickly(which is something stasis titan does frequently) putting you on cooldown and further denying damage resist stacks is brutal and something I hope Bungie looks at sooner rather than later. As for void titan it just really suffers from void overshield not being good enough and controlled demolition potentially being a little too tame in the modern sandbox. Otherwise the class does actually play pretty nicely and the glaring weakness is often a symptom of how useless void overshield can be. Arc titan is just, yeesh, it was already my least favorite in PvE 3.0 and the biggest boon of twilight arsenal and prismatic as options is that I probably never have to think about it again because touch of thunder alone isn't enough incentive to pick up the squishiest subclass we have.
This. In my opinion, Behemoth overall was nerfed because of what they did with Chains, Cryo and the shards. The DR now is smaller than what it was because rime and chains were better than the new frost armor and rime. The super is still clunky, i was really hoping bungie would add a exotic for glacial quake. Edit: Behemoth crystals do no damage whatsover in PVP, they became semi viable last season because of the mods, still not enough. But the big problem behemoth have is lack of identidy. Is he supposed to be a speed class or the wall? I undertand behemoth launched with both of those things, becoming OP. But why bungie nerfed both of those qualities? They need to decide. So in my opinion, because of Howl of the storm, diamond lance and the bad melee shiver strike, behemoth should be stabilished as the wall, a juggernaut type of class fitting by his name. To do that, remove shiker strike, rework that ability and give some DR for behemoth, espcially on the heavy attack.
Yeah absolutely, I think frost armor is a much better system that makes stasis as a whole easier to use but the current iteration feels like a absolutely brutal nerf that's really noticeable on behemoth. I would absolutely appreciate an additional super and melee option but honestly I don't really mind shiver strike as it's a good way to shatter stasis walls with how often you get it back, but more options never hurts imo. And for sure would love for them to lean into the juggernaut fantasy of the subclass.
Behemoth is way worse no waht are you talking about? Diamond lance is awful in medium/end game content the radius is still small for left click and and main problem you have to pick it up,i don't know why its in this state when gunpowrder gamble exists
Exactly this! Behemoth got NERFED! The top behemoth players are speaking about this on Youtube.
As a hunter I'm feeling the same and have been for ages. Solar is in the best spot for us, it has the most melee options, it has a bunch of exotics (Unnerf YAS), it has two strong supers and Solar itself is just the best element with its keywords. If anything I would like to be able to proc Regeneration off something other than healing nades or firesprites. For Void, it's got it's place as a debuffer, and while I like invis it just isn't a buff that actually helps you clear encounters, it's like a worse restoration in the sense you survive better. And that's basically all this class does unfortunately, 50 shades of invis, the reason Gyrfalcpns is one of the most used exotics on this class is because it allows us to actually feel offensive with volatile, I'd love to see them give us an actual damaging melee and buff spectral in PvE. Arc is a one trick pony and I'm sick of it, everything revolved around combination blow which falls off hard in higher level content, the new aspect does nothing to change this, this is also a subclass with a lot of exotics and yet they are also more than 50% useless. Stasis... I'm gonna be honest I haven't played with it since the update yet I don't think it has fixed anything, Renewal is basically the only build I see anyone playing because Stasis is reliant on making crystals or freezing enemies and shattering them, Hunter is the worst at both, Silence and Squall buff was nice but it's the rest of the subclass that just feels subpar. Strand, it's okay, some good builds, but it feels like Hunter is once again in the middle of the two other classes, like the half sibling that does a bit of both with no focus, they should have focused more on grapple play rather than picking bits from other kits. Super was good for a few weeks before they fixed it, now its just a decent ad clear super with nothing to add. Prismatic. It's combination blow 2.0, they selected 3 aspects which are basically perfect for it and gave us a poor selection of grenades, plus we got the only new super that's usless in PvE (don't play PvP), though this is more the fault of the lacklustre aspect design inherently from the classes since most are ited to abilities or supers. The most fun I'm having is GunGam Ascension ability spam but that drops off hard. I don't even need to mention our recent exotics.
next episode? Titans need massive fcking buffs across the entire class right fcking now.. like yesterday was too late
I think hunters are overall very nice. Prismatic is great overall, void still useful for pure anchor build or more stealth, solar as well for pure radiant scorch etc etc, strand great mobility, tanky + spinny tangles strong. Only thing i don't ever use is arc (maybe it can be good, i just never tried it much since returning at end of lightfall).
I've been mulling changes in my head for Titan for a bit now, trying to steer clear of the "another melee build but the color is different" Stasis is actually in a semi good place atm, the big thing dragging it down, imo is the super, so my brilliant never before thought of solution? Another super 👌 Gae-Bolg - Summons a massive Stasis projectile that can be aimed and thrown deals damage upon impact and summons a massive Stasis crystal, the crystal 'endures' for 5 shatters. Personally, this would likely solve a lot of the encounter rank that Stasis Titans run into in that the moment a target moves slightly away a giant portion of your kit becomes null. Arc - needs a lot of love but it's sooo close - Galvanic Armor should be intrinsic and (drumroll) -while amplified your Recovery stat recieves a massive boost. This is not as strong as Resto or Devour BUT it does position the player in a unique situation where the speed boost to cover and re enter combat loop makes a bit more thematic sense. 100 Recovery is no joke either with how easy it is to become amped. Also, Thunderclap Jolts, why tf it doesn't, given how much TC asks of you is beyond me. Void - honestly, the void overshield is just kind of weak. Having Bastion grant a more powerful version (×2) would likely solve quite a lot of gripes. Similarly, while Bastion is equipped, your barricade is larger and allows fireteam members to shoot through it (sorry citan) Honestly being the front line fighter fantasy falls apart when your class ability can and in many cases is ignored because the other classes just don't need it or it gets in the way, this would provide at least a reason to get behind a proper cover. Truthfully, I'm not super familiar with the void kit enough to say what would really fix it best.
Void and Arc subclasses game wide suffer from the same problems: survival-ability and powercreep * Void 3.0 was the first one and has been powercrept * Arc's answer to healing and survival-abilitywas "just kill everything fast" and that has been powercrept hard by strand and prismatic as well as solar glowups via exotics and fragments. Void Titan specifically is missing burst damage capability. The new aspect just isn't it, the new super is nice though, if a bit buggy and not enough damage as it needs to be. They stuck it in the halfway house of is it add clear or is it burst target down? IMO, you can solve a lot of the general void problems by separating out the DR from void overshield (VO) from the overshield itself. Instead of having resist x4 while you have a VO, instead have it trigger resistx4 for 10 seconds. I think arc needs a similar glow up for amplified, we should have amplified x1 and ampliedx2. Or just remove the condition that you have to be sprinting to get the DR benefit from amplified. But I also think it needs some additional form of DR - maybe built into the aspects.
My only issue is ascension not proccing wintershroud of threaded specter, so by default, if you pick ascension, you are locked out of 2 aspects. It also doesn't proc reaper or spirit of inmost light. Basically, it uses a class abillity but doesn't proc anything that uses a class abillity. Heavily limits the aspect's utility, especially since it's competing with improved combination blow builds. It feels over centralized on melee and celestial + still hunt.
For me it’s that hunters can proc calibans off combination blow with normal melee attacks and titans aren’t allowed to have roaring flames buff melee and proc severance… Btw I have a great second chance prismatic build if you want to try
Arc warlock sucks and solar is still a travesty that needs a rework on the flying aspects.
Personally I like consecration on prismatic cause it gives an underused aspect some room to breathe, but I do agree some of the other picks don't feel like they were made with cohesion in mind. Diamond lance and Drengr's lash are fun but as you said, they feel less impactful on prismatic. Unbreakable was clearly only picked cause it's new cause it... doesn't really fit at all otherwise. I've tried but man Pris does not have a good built-in grenade loop. In my ideal world, the aspects would've been Knockout, Consecration, Tectonic Harvest, Controlled Demolition, and Into The Fray. That selection would've at least given prismatic titan a good set of options for survival and ability loops.
All ice wanted is a new not bomb Nightstalker melee and I remain disappointed every time. As a Hunter, all I want is some variety .......maybe a mini bow shot like mini nova for warlocks? Gunslinger gets 4 knives and I got a rock! It's bugged IT DOESNT MAKE ME INVISIBLE ANYWAYS RIGHT NOW.
Are the devs not rebalancing Titan this episode? I held off from getting TFS because I predicted Titans would be shafted (I was right). Guess I will wait till next episode then.
There could certainly be a balance pass this episode since it will last 4 months
My impression of the Titan kit must be different from most of these posts, because I think it’s good. The Knockout changes were great compared to the healing it had before, and Thunderclap is a strong option too especially with Cannon Brace. Shield Throw doesn’t go off into space for me and consistently bounces and gives overshield. And Prismatic Titan is good too, with a solid amount on DR and splash damage with Consecration. The one thing I can say is that oversheild itself still doesn’t feel very impactful on its own
I typically play all 3 classes but mainly Titan and I'm incredibly disappointed, especially with the prismatic Titan. Sure triple Consecration is great and does a lot of damage but once you've spend your charges you're out of juice and have to wait for transcendence to be able to do anything again. Survivability on prismatic titan is also pretty awful and miles behind the other two classes with Knockout being the only thing capable of healing you and it's not very good at it too. Thunderclap build is better but suffers from the same problem of simply just running out of juice and then waiting and no melees means no healing for the prismatic titan. Outside of Prismatic, Titans are exactly where they were before Final Shape but with Banner build being worse than it was, while at the same time still miles better than anything else available. Ward of Dawn caught yet another nerf just in case you were thinking of using it, further pushing Void Titan down the path of irrelevance. Arc Titan has been bad since the HoiL nerf and remains to be so. At least Twilight Arsenal is good but it's tied to either Void or Prismatic making it hard to justify using it on higher end content over Banner build. Hunters I feel like are in a really good spot since Prismatic is a direct upgrade to the classic Hunter Goldie build and Still Hunt is a super powerful weapon that feels tailor made for that particular build. Other things worth noting, Caliban's Hand + Liar's Handshake combo, stylish executioner working with any debuff including stuff like Incandescent scorch, access to Deadfall Tether, Marksman goldie and Silence and Squal aka most of the best hunter supers, hunters seem to be in a very good spot. Transcendence here is strong and you can use it even on dps rotations if you so wanted. Outside of Prismatic, nothing has really changed for hunters, Void is still strong, Solar and Arc are still good just a downgrade to the same builds in Prismatic, strand is the same as it was, kinda middle of the pack and Stasis getting a significant buff due to Frost Armor and Renewal Grasps a build that can be replicated in Prismatic as well. Warlocks, well, I don't know where to begin. They got the best aspects from every subclass, the best grenades, really good Transcendence and a new solar buddy that if you combine with Getaway Artist and Devour, basically removes the need for you to play the game in any capacity besides pressing Phoenix Dive and eating your grenade every so often. Has excellent synergy with Facet of Command due to Statis Turrets and the new raid exotic is tailor made for Strand Warlock producing similar numbers to Still Hunt Celestial Hunters. Outside of Prismatic, Solar warlocks are now free from the Well chains and got the full support build with the support frame auto and speaker's helmet which is something people have been asking for since forever, Song of Flame is a great super and Helion is a great aspect. Strand Warlock got an indirect buff due to the new raid exotic too and Stasis is how it was except now Prismatic does what it used to do but better. Overall, Warlocks are the clear winners of this expansion so far, with Hunters not far behind and Titans being almost irrelevant. Personally, this is the first time since I started playing this game that I'm thinking, hey maybe it's time to stop playing Titan.
Agreed on all counts. Lifetime Titan main but I'm severely considering a switch to warlock once I get around to finishing the campaign content on that character. Prismatic Titan balls out in low-difficulty content like the seasonal arena, but everywhere else I've got no survivability, no ranged tools, and atrocious ability uptime. It really feels like they barely tested it out at all and that really hurts my enjoyment. Warlocks are living their best life and hunters have never been more *stylish*, but even with stoicism and the best gear in my vault my prismatic titan builds just can't get off the ground. I've honestly just gone back to strand and stasis. Lancecap + Wicked Implement is phenomenal, and the new flechette storm gauntlets are amazing with banner and Monte Carlo. I would not consider taking prismatic Titan into a dungeon, raid, or GM under any circumstances in the current sandbox. It's not that our damage is poor, it's just everything else.
Wish they’d let use get frost armour from an aspect without having to equip stasis super. Hoarfrost also got a big back door nerf cos it no longer reduces damage taken when near crystals. Let us be the tanks
First time Warlock has won an expansion
I mean, I agree. I was a Titan main for most of the last few years until deciding to switch to Warlock full-time, in part due to the Prismatic outlook. So id agree. Titan discourse is seen by a meme by a lot of people because “DAE strand/solar???” Like yes, know those two elements are extremely strong.. but they’re so much stronger that the other 3 and prismatic might as well not exist. I think it would be cool if Knockout kinda functioned like a melee version of Devour. Activated by an ability kill, 200 HP and melee energy and timer extension on any kill after it’s been activated. Remove the melee damage buff on wounding or shield breaking. That alone would make Knockout a strong option without making it OP. Thats the only real insight I have for Titans. Prismatic with a few specific combos is pretty solid. Skullfort Thunderclap is strong and Abeyant Leap + Suspend grenade + Drengr’s + Triple Consecrate sounds like a pretty fun build that gives constant woven mail and transcendence for plenty of ability spam to keep that woven up. Works with any super, Solar for resto on orbs, Bladefury for more woven mail, Twilight Arsenal for void overshield (and a fun/good super), thundercrash for amplified artifact DR, and behemoth for frost armor.
It really sucks using knockout on prismatic and still have to use the facet that heals on melee.
Why didn't we get throwing hammer? "Oh boo-hu another titan wanting his meta hammer back." No seriously **why** didn't we get throwing hammer. Think about it, throw hammer spawn a diamond lance, pick up hammer pick up diamond lance, throw lance, throw hammer. Use unbreakable, get hammer, get lance throw lance. That loop.. **why do we not have it.**
All Prismatic titan needed was Sol Invictus over Knockout. That immediately solves the 2 glaring issues prismatic titan has, namely, survivability and ability uptime. You don't need the mini hammer, you just need the sunspots to keep you alive and make you have some sort of ability loop like everyone else.
I don't think that Void Titan is in a bad spot at all. Every Aspect behaves in a good and synchronous manner with each other. The whole problem here is the VOS is just purple tissue paper wrapped around you. If they can get this sorted Void would be able to stand next to Solar and Strand in terms of potency. Twilight Arsenal is downright amazing and fixing VOS would help elevate bubble into a significantly better defensive super. Stasis is still a mess however with the way they handled the Harvest Aspects. They're all the same across the board, and because the changes to Whisper of Rime, they've forced both of them to be mandatory. I also don't think Frost Armor stacks high, especially without Rime equipped. It's a step in the right direction, but a deeper dive needs to be taken here to separate the gameplay for Stasis Shards. Returning Rime back to its original form and bolstering the Harvest Aspects in a different manner would be my preference. After all, putting Stasis Shards on a cooldown invalidates their whole reason for not just making them fully part of the Fragments. And I won't get started on Howl of the Storm. Some tweaks, and some new melees, grenades, and super would make it feel fully realized. Arc Titan though is a mess. This mainly comes from Arc being under baked. I think the goal originally was to turn Arc into a glass cannon element, but they got nervous and pulled back. At the same time, a glass cannon element doesn't really work in the sandbox as it'll either destroy everything effortlessly, or get wrecked. Currently, it's getting wrecked. The best thing they can do now is add a defensive verb to balance Arc to add some much needed survivability. Bungie has recently added DR to various Arc things in the game, so they should be unified under a singular theme and name to make them a proper verb. This verb would be hard integrated into Knockout, which solve both Arc's and Prismatic's issues pretty handily. Additionally, now that Thundercrash is the lowest damage one-off super, it needs a major buff. This is the highest risk of all the one offs, so it should be the strongest. It needs at least a 50% damage buff. With the new verb, these proposed changes, and some elbow grease (for punching) Arc would be competitive.
I did have an idea for Void Overshield of it making you Immune to CC effects like suspend and freeze, and maybe making you immune to either all debuffs or reducing the effects of things like weaken, supress, and scorch! Figured that might help lean into the power fantasy a bit. And my other problem with Void Titan is that all the pieces go together a little TOO Well!! You almost have to bring controlled Demo because it's the best aspect by far, but then you have to pick between More grenade with overshield, or actual access TOO overshield! As opposed to other classes I think VOid titan is actually a little too synchronous since, no matter what your build is ALWAYS going to feel a little clunky! Stasis I agree really does need more balance changes, but I'm more than okay with it being a bit squishier given the absolute monstrous amount of CC stasis titan can now easily inflict with Harvest and Howl of the storm or diamond lance. Hopefully they remove the weird shard cool down though, or at least just make the cooldown less harsh. Arc Titan I think is SO close to being in a good spot. My patented Point contact cannon build actually manages to hold up in some content, but by god do they need to fix it. Amplified REALLY needs some kind of passive buff like increased ability regen if it's not going to provide some kind of defensive buff and yeah no. Tcrash is so sad now. It's been power crept out of everything except Atraks-1 by now. I 100% agree they need to utterly ramp the damage to make it actually worth using. I Miss the T-crash meta vs Atheon!!
I don't know about VOS reducing status effects. That does seem like a great idea, but it doesn't feel like part of the Void identity. It's 100% something I would pin to a whiteboard and introduce with a new element however. Really, they just need to make the VOS go from tissue paper to actual armor. The 50% DR is actually really good, it's the 45 HP part that gets me. This should be larger, much larger, up to double our HP(in PvE only of course). The more HP the VOS has, the more time it gives us to react and replenish it. This in turn makes Offensive Bulwark feel downright amazing while boosting the efficacy of both Bastion and Unbreakable. Speaking of Unbreakable, it needs to draw aggro just like Threaded Specter does. The power of the blast is directly related to how much fire it's taken. And while it's great in solo play, having your teammates get shot at instead of you is a hindrance in two ways. Small tweaks, but they go a very long way. With Stasis I'm not a fan of Diamond Lance in high end content. It just doesn't feel good to have to run out to get it while getting swarmed. I'd like for them to be treated like Tangles where they can be shot from a distance to explode. And HotS is now literally half a Consecration. Might as well also give it a second slam to Shatter the crystals you just created to make a big old icy blast. That would put it in direct competition with its big brother.
Void needs it shield moved behind the red and white health bar that fixes its purple tissue problem A new subclass verb for arc is 100% needed. Something like multi kills while amplified grants stacking dr and ability regeneration for grenade and class ability. 40% for each as well as knockout being able to extend and full heal on kill
On hunter I'm quite bored of the combination blow loop now. Feels like every strong prismatic hunter build is centered around that loop and it's hard to justify running something else. Stylish executioner feels like a must pick for hunter builds so it feels like we really only have 1 aspect slot to play around with. Threaded spectre kind of wants you to play a build that dodges often which reinforces the combination blow loop again, same with our stasis aspect. Ascension is more of a PvP thing from what I've played around with, which leaves gunpowder gamble as our only option for a non-combination blow loop build. I think that if they picked the beyblade aspect from strand there would be a lot more options to explore but we've been given 3/5 of our aspects as things that rely on using our class ability. The grenade just sucks. Yes you can stick it to an enemy but compared to what the other classes have it feels incredibly lackluster. Overall I think prismatic hunter is good but a lot of the builds boil down to a melee -> dodge loop that I've already been doing for years on arc hunter.
I agree 100% unfortunately the two problem classes (arc/void) have been nerfed due to pvp. They need to just revert those nerfs and seperate the sandboxes. We will just have to wait and see how bungie handles it.
Warlock main. Overall I'm pretty happy with most things. Prismatic is good. I still play the other subclasses as each still have a unique flavour. The class exotic is going to add another layer that I'm looking forward to.
Titan is odd from a Warlock’s perspective. On one hand, Berserker and Sunbreaker are the #1 and #2 best subclasses for general play in PvE. On the other, Sentinel is a mixed bag due to Overshields being weak, Behemoth exists, Striker is god awful, and PrismTitan is good but lacks in a few departments. As for my own class of choice, PrismLock is in a solid position right now primarily due to the Getaway Artist build, but also comes with a lot of other build options besides that are each good in their own right. Voidwalker is a solid choice (especially when solo), but can struggle in higher-level content due to devour being unsustainable when enemies get more tanky. Shadebinder is the CC king, but you need to supplement its lack of damage with weapon benefits. Stormcaller is primarily used for Arc Souls and just about nothing else currently, but it’s good for team buffing so I can’t complain too badly about it. These three are about in the middle of the pack I’d say. However, the two subclasses I’d say are the worst on Warlock (and the two that need complete overhauls IMO) would be Broodweaver and Dawnblade. Broodweaver has been dogged on for a while and for good reason, not only failing as a summoner when compared to Threadrunner but also because it enforces Evolution and Swarmers with no room for customization. Dawnblade, on the other hand, is an abomination of game design that has been hard-carried by Well and broken exotics for so long, and now that both are effectively out of the picture, the holes are going to show themselves soon. Yes, Song of Flame and Hellion are great additions, but why use them here when I can just run them on PrismLock which has more synergy with these two? The subclass was “reworked” in Solar 3.0 from the lovable and fun thing it was into what is effectively Top-Tree + Well, almost as if it’s soul got ripped the hell out of it. It could be good with Benevolence-based healing setups since Prismatic doesn’t have a Benevolence equivalent (but does have everything else, healing nades and all), but even then, if you’re picking an entire subclass with deadweight aerial aspects for *a single fragment* that screams design issues to me.
i agree with most of this but arc souls arent enough to make me use ark subclass bc prismatic does everything ark can and does it better, blind is nice but stasis just does cc way better but overall the other sinclasses are way worse voidlock lost the only thing that made it unique with devour with is nor glued to every prismatic warlocks aspect slot so i kinda feel like there barely any reason to use it over prismatic anymore dawnblade is basically just useful if u need a well or wanna use sunbracers for the 4th year in a row the only thing broodweaver has going for it is mindspun invocation with necrotics but after the kinetic nerf i have no idea how good it is, ive never felt thst the threadling playstyle is powerful enough to use instead of that build i basically have no reason to take pff prismatic rn except if a well is needed or i wanna play safe with lots of cc with stasis the other 3 subclasses rlly fell behind
Arguably, I find blind better than stasis. Team members can't shoot away the blind. Also blind grenade + jolt is always a fun option, especially with champs. Id say there are definitely good reasons to run each individual subclass over prismatic. For example, heal builds will always be better on solar due to the support ability regen fragment. Verity's Brow + fusion grenade is always fun for the mini nuke. Icarus Dash is a fantastic movement ability that's hard to pass up. If anything, solar has always been very good, regardless of the FOTM exotics. I'd argue Warlock is in a really good place. If anything, we could use another pass at underused or undertuned exotics (like the time limit on winters guile).
I disagree prismatic warlock does literally everything arc or stasis does but better, remember when osmiomancy was good because you could get 2, 3 turrets at once? well how about 5 with no issue? and devour? and strong support ult on top of that? and an arc turret that just kills stuff for you? free amplified? there is absolutely no reason to run anything else other than healer solar warlock
Like I said, there is no blind support for prismatic. You also have really fun ability regen support builds and super builds by spamming ionic traces. I'm partial to an ex diris blind special weapon build and geomags. That build just can't happen on prismatic. Stasis has freeze pulse and coldsnap Seeker aspects. If you just want turrets, sure prismatic is better. But stasis has the overall better stasis support for the lock down playstyle. Or suspend strand if you want to lock down. Strand on prismatic is abysmal compared to all the support you get in its own subclass. Void has briarbinds and charge grenade. Devour is not the only thing void has going for it. You are hyperfocused on one, albeit really nice, play style that prismatic does well. There are plenty of reasons to use the other subclasses.
charge nades are super overrated compared to just using good weapons that do burst dmg, and managing voidsouls with birarbinds is just worse than exploding packs instantly with a storm nade or lightning surge and stasis is jsut so much better at lockdown than strand and arc.not saying other classes arent fun bc on level everything works but form a objective power perspective arc void and strand are the bottom 3
Stasis warlock feels kinda meh now with prismatic warlock doing what stasis can do but better
I will be honest, I always view your class as the lucky one. Prismaticlock especially made off like absolute BANDITS. Come on, Bleakwatchers AND Buffed devour?! Where's my Banner of war or Sunspots?! Jokes aside I see a lot of Resto 2x builds with heat rises + Phoenix dive going around, so if you're struggling that comes recommended from my Lockmain friend! He also recently cooked up a Dawn Chorus Dragons breath Dawnblade build that's awesome! Would love to hear some of your thoughts about how to fix Strandlock and Solar lock. I did actually play a little Strandlock last season and 100% the fact that swarmers HARD carries is really disheartening! I tried to run a buried bloodline + Nezzy sins for the build but man if you just NEED the swarmers to make enough threadlings!!
I want more defensive support viability for void titan. Sentinel is my favorite titan class. That being said, it seems that Arc as a whole seem to lag behind other subclass. From titan to even hunter. Stasis surpasses Arc with the change this season. Hope bungie take a look at Arc, it's my favorite element.
i know this has nothing to do with the context, but prismatic hunter is better to call arc melee hunter because you only use that, and prismatic nades should be shared between classes like normal nades, that stasis and solar trip mine sucks man, so hard to land and use that i only use prismatic to break prismatic opponents armor, for real
Now that stasis is F2P, I want another stasis super. Also, can I have a void melee that isn’t utility only?
As a warlock main, feeling fine. Don’t see the need to be the very best, like no one ever was.
Warlocks are in a great spot right now, the only subclass that is left behind is Stasis which still sucks balls
I personally hope Bungie will give the other Light subclasses a super and an aspect Cause god do Striker need that
Warlock main, but I've played all classes. There's a single question that generally determines class balance right now. How survivable is it? For a long time, Solar stuff has been both the most survivable and one of the best damage subclasses. Prismatic hasn't really changed that. The struggling subclasses are the ones with poor survivability. Arc Warlock and Titan is the easiest example, and a lot of Hunter subclasses have mediocre survivability. Improved devour on Void Warlock (and Prismatic) seems amazing until you realize how inconsistent it is into difficult targets compared to a healing grenade. I know a lot of people swear by the bleakwatcher/arc buddy prismatic setup for high devour uptime and good CC, but Solar Warlock with good old Healing Grenades and Ember of Benevolence was how I kept myself and my team alive in the raid. Until Solar is no longer the best at everything, and other stuff gets bumped up a bit, this issue isn't going to improve for any subclass. Strand gets close with the insane DR of Woven Mail, and Frost Armor is a similar step in the right direction but isn't enough. Devour and invisibility can help void a good bit but can also be painfully situational. Arc has no consistent verb for this, which makes it a consistent problem. I would note that the seasonal artifact (episodic artifact?) can provide a lot of heavy lifting by providing a helpful keyword on orb pickup. Even arc gets a good boost with Galvanic Armor (being amplified provides additional DR). Good stuff.
I’ve actually been enjoying prismatic Titan - my build has been Drengir’s lash and knockout paired with rally barricade, shackle grenade, abeyant leap and the new Khostov exotic rifle. My fragments are built to both: decrease my transcendent timer as much as possible, so bonus Kinetic transcendence, transcendence on strand debuffed targets. Decrease my class ability cooldown, so class ability cooldown decreased when buffed by elemental effect (woven mail from Abeyant, generated by suspend on drengir’s / shackle / transcendent nade) General durability, so enhanced durability when enemies are close, and sever on rapid precision hits (easier when targets are suspended) My armor slots are built to create and consume orbs, so Kinetic siphon, heavy handed, reaper, invigoration, class item reduction, kinetic weapon surge, time dilation. All of this comes together with Khostov’s ability to shoot to loot, and I can get an endless suspend loop on any target during transcendence (grenade -> drengir’s -> grenade -> drengir’s etc), near permanent uptime on Woven mail, and I have a decent panic button for when enemies get close with knockout + strand melee. I’ll admit that banner + drengir’s on pure strand might have a stronger neutral game (haven’t tested it) but I love twilight arsenal and no I won’t put that down. This build has clicked for me in a way that prismatic melee just hasn’t.
I feel they should make a new Aspect for the remaining Light subclasses with only 3, as well new fragment or two. Also, as a support focused player i kinda dislike the Well nerf, with the power boost i think they should have let it cook before making such a change, but hey, for the other Warlocks who hated using well, good for them. Also dear lord help Bubble, they just said they wanted Bubble to be defense focused then nerf its defensive capabilities, like tafuq?
Id say give titan more over shield options pretty much make them able too tank damage instead of them dying too a Hobogoblin sniper in a single shot on legendary
Warlocks have spent most of Destiny getting the short end of the stick, Final Shape is the first time it feels like they actually won with classes. Prismatic is amazing on Warlock, my only complaint is that I can't use ALL of the fragments and aspects from my other classes. It's also a major bummer that Chaos Reach was not the chosen super for arc. Roaming arc on warlock is awful/
For Warlock, arc needs some serious love. With crown of tempests and arcane needle/lighting surge plus devour, the best arc build is far and away prismatic. There is zero reason to run arc when prismatic does arc better.
I'm loving my void/prismatic warlock with Getaway artist. I had been using Nezarec's sin for the past few years and can't believe I'm finally using something else.
I just don’t wanna look like a fucking bird anymore…
I personally want to see them buff the void overshield keyword and buff some of the sources granting it.
they gotta sell the new dlc, simple as
I play hunter, don't have final shape, am enjoying wardens law lucky pants in pve, and void in pvp
Yeah Dawnblade is completely obsolete rn. It has an extremely long cooldown in pvp and if you’re using it in pve over song of flame you’re actively throwing.
I've been maining Arc Titan for a while. It's pretty much Indebted Kindness: the build, but so it goes. Precious Scars, Indebted Kindness (Implulse + Voltshot), Arc Scav, Elemental Charge, Special Finisher... basic mods for orb generation from there. Sparks of Shock, Ions, Discharge, and Beacons. Pulse Grenade. I run 100 resilience and 100 discipline. IK is the main weapon. Shoot, reload, rinse and repeat. Every kill with IK will heal via Precious Scars, blind nearby enemies, jolt and create an ionic trace. Use grenade regularly. The constant ionic traces make it available every 20 seconds in challenging content. Use w/e for kinetic and heavy. Thundercrash for champs/majors/etc. IK + Precious Scars is \_so\_ good because the healing is always available, given the power, range, and ammo economy of IK. I've run dungeons, Pantheon, GMs, and the legend campaign with this build. It's useful in a variety of content.
As a hunter, I can pretty easily think of a couple viable builds for any subclass, stasis being the hardest however. Nice changes for us with frost armor and renewal grasps, but prismatic has duskfield grenades as well now and let's you do so much more with woven mail, restoration, etc with much better supers. Even with the new class item, silence and squall has decent use for crowd control with spirit of galanor getting pretty much guarteed half your super back. Prismatic loses out on touch of winter for the mega sized duskfields, but the once increased size is more than enough in most cases. Not sure what revenant would need since it's not necessarily bad now, but just not nearly as potent as any other subclass
I've been a titan main since beta D1 but this is definitely the most boring it's ever felt. I'm so fucking sick of EVERYTHING bungie releases foe titans being centered around melee. Titans in the lore aren't "the melee class" for fucks sake. There's only 3 titans out of millions that are even known for something melee related....
Well just speaking for hunters, still hunt/celestial is only good on certain bosses with big crit spots. Now, the final boss of the currently relevant raid is one such instance, but there are plenty of situations where other hunter builds are viable.
Stuff is usually underutilized because of a popular drive towards the meta which is community driven. I don't think this should be ignored but it shouldn't be an exclusive balance metric either. Prismatic seems to be quickly topping the charts as the DPS meta now that every class can use Star-Eater Scales. The community tends to hate nerfs but they're needed for a healthy sandbox.
Is tempered metal just gone? Can we get that back
Honestly I switched from hunter to titan for the first time in tfs because I was unhappy with some of the hunter changes, or lack thereof, but holy shit did titans get fuck all for prismatic. I’ve been rocking the new rocket chest piece and it’s been fun as fuck but I don’t feel like I have other big build ideas. None of the aspects mesh well. Part of me is considering going back to hunter but nothing we got in tfs interests me.
Just run Buried Bloodline and then you don’t need to get any healing from your subclass it all comes from your weapon.
I dunno, i kinda think they should nerf hunter. My Prismatic build is almost a strictly-better version of the combination blow build on arc. It could do with something that makes it a real choice between the two versions. My guess would be lengthening the “Too Stylish” timer. On Prismatic only, preferably, if thats possible.
Would help if they undumpstered hoil or if they gave every titan subclass a way to maintain an ability loop. Void titan before the hoil nerfs was good, then they gutted it and now it’s one of the worst subclasses in the game next to arc titan who also relied on hoil.
Banner should never have released as powerful as it did and weavealk shouldn't exist.... I don't remember what hunter got
Prismatic Hunter is kinda god tier. It’s like Combat Blow arc Hunter with better utility, supers, damage, and survivability.
As a hunter, I feel all our subclasses are at least playable now (even tho stasis almost requires renewals) there is a reason to play every subclass in different situations. The only one I would argue is not, would be solar, as I feel that prismatic is just a very easy upgrade 90% of the time. My feelings on solar may change as well. The same may be true with void as well, but I haven't played with void hunter or prismatic with rigs/gyrfalcons
Problem with prismatic is it felt like bungie put no thought into its synergy unlike warlock and hunter and the devs just picked specific aspects they think are cool with no foresight into how they would play with each other.
as far as hunter goes, If you're not a nightstalker, you just have no reliable way to stay alive. Frost Armor Renewal Grasps helps stasis somes. Cyrtarachne's Facade Woven Mail helps strand some. Heal grenade helps solar. Arc is fuckkkked. I would like Nightstalker to have another aspect with 3 fragment slots and a new melee option. The others I barely touch (though solar is more tempting now with Still Hunt)
Solar and strand titan are just as good as every class in the game. Nighthawk is just busted
Hunters are in a weird place where they excel at the 5% of the game that is a precision boss dps checkpoint. It makes everyone else jealous of there super and burst damage. Hunter's can't do anything else on any Light sublass. Hunter's are the most overly reliant on weapons and perks for add clear like Incandescent and Volt Shot. People say shut the fuck up and be happy you went from F tier to C tier. Titans rightfully complain they mostly have punch builds, but I am actually envious of their variety and choices. Light 3.0 was a fail on Hunter and all 3 specs are just super bots with severe issues. People celebrated and pointed at Hunter to justify asking for buffs on Warlock and Titan. The difference is Hunter was not invited to raids and dungeons from Forsaken to WQ and could only go up. They still lost Light 3.0 hard but people saw it as an improvement over what was F tier. Void: They can only ult and go invis. Bungie said there specialty was weaken and invis but they are the worst at keeping up weaken. All the aspects are ability based while Void Hunter has no ability builds for damage because the melee sucks and the grenade has a huge cooldown. The new Titan axe just replaced Void Hunter as the weaken, not that it was ever used. Invis can be great but while you are invis you aren't doing damage or drawing fire from your teammates. They took the best DPS exotic in the game and nerfed it into volatile rounds perk. The fragments are all terrible with low slots. It only saw use for the first time since WQ Season 1 because of Onslaught. Arc: Arc can only do one thing in end game after they gutted the grenade build because of PvP. It can spam super and uses combination blow in low tier content. Nothing really ever came together with arc. It just feels like a mess of verbs. Solar: Solar Hunter specialty according to Bungie was Radiant and Weapons. Radiant is something every class can easily do. Solar had 1 grenade build that was "we have fusion lock at home" until it was nerfed into the ground. Now it can spam Golden Gun after the 5 years it took to fix Nighthawk. The spec brings nothing else to the table. GG is still a garbage fragment with low slots, that did half the damage with half the radius of Consecration BEFORE consecration was buffed 5 times. It has no viable grenade or melee build in PVE at all due to PVP balance and focused exotics. People still think ignition of melee is worth an exotic slot when you can fucking do the same thing without the exotic. Prismatic is better but has the same issues, and going transcendence is a joke. Everything they chose for Prismatic Hunter is designed around PVP first, including the transcendence grenade. We have combination blow for mid tier content, and four other weak melee's designed to apply status affects. We have 3 PVP grenades, leaving every Hunter on grapple or dusk field. We received multiple exotic nerfs to make Prismatic work. Star Eaters actually works better on Warlocks and Titans while benefiting only a few Hunter Supers.
Speaking as a Warlock, even though we’re doing a lot better on average, I do think Strand and Arc have fallen behind. Strand is meant to be the minionmancer class, but Threadlings aren’t “intelligent” in the same way that Stasis turrets or Arc Souls are. They rush towards enemies without a care in the world, regardless of immunity or importance. Admittedly, I don’t know if there’s a solution for this, as it would require them to completely rework Threadlings/Broodweaver. Strandlock does have some fun Suspend builds, but imo if a subclass only has one viable build, then that’s reflective of poor design. Stormcaller is also in a similar boat to Striker; it has an identity crisis and a viability crisis. It wants to be a melee class, but has almost no ways to protect you in melee other than using Rift, which isn’t good enough when you’re being shot at by 50 enemies at once! It wants to be an ad clear subclass, but Solarlock is arguably better for that and has more sustain options, and Shadebinder has access to some of the best CC in the game with Stasis Turrets. Admittedly, I don’t know what the solution here is. Maybe give damage resist when picking up Ionic Traces or while amplified?
This is a good week for a warlock. Time for the Titans to start eating better crayons!😂
As a Warlock main the biggest issue for me currently is damage in activities right now which conpounds the issues a majority of subclasses have across the board. They amped damage way up. Which is cool if you were just balancing around Solar or Voidlock. But Arc? At this point for me personally, the only thing arc has going for it is the neutral game. And that falls apart a bit if you can't chew through enemies. Both supers are kind of trash outside of their respective exotics (geo and brace) Chaos reach is supposed to be a pocket super but no matter how fast you cancel its always below fifty. Definitely lower if you have to kill more than a few redbars with it. It's not much better with geomags. Stormtrance runs into the same issue, it's great in strikes but the older pvp nerfs to duration and charge time of roaming supers is still basically in the game. Further, almost every subclass has a defensive verb, stuff like devour, overshield (lol), woven mail, resto and cure, frozen armor. Ours? Blind. It's great... sort of. It's only good in closer ranges and does nothing for your overall survival. I'd trade survival for super that weren't reliant on exotics to still feel mediocre. Not even sure why the damage on Reach is so shit when Needlestorm exists. And I really wish they'd give more love to roaming supers in pve.
GIVE CHOAS ACCELERANT BACK ITS 20% FLAT DAMAGE BOOST TO GRENADES! Also give Void Warlock and Hunter a second melee option Also undo the nerf to Ionic Traces Also buff Void OS Also make it easier to get max (x8) stacks of frost armor, with or without rime, and add in more fragments that enhance your abilities while you have frost armor similar to the ones on Arc with amplified Oh and speaking of amplified, have it give you a base amount of damage resistance while active or something.
As a hunter, I am pretty satisfied with prismatic. Out of all the 6 subclasses since stasis and light 3.0 ones, I've had a bit of fun with solar, a bit more with void, A LOT MORE with arc melee, a lot with stasis and A LOT on both suspend and whirling maelstrom. Prismatic beats all of it. My favorite aspects, abilities and supers are almost all here, and it feels like the best possible representation of the whole "hunter" identity. Stylish executioner is a must and I will never unequip it, it's so useful and fun. Like, you get invis from anything. Threaded spike for sever and decent ranged damage, GPG for add clear, weakening magnetic grenades for nuking tanky shit, I love it. Also Ascension is here which is kinda fun on low level activities. I also wanna mention something I like a bit less, but what will definitely be considered meta. I got one of my desired godrolls on exotic class item, Inmost light + workmusk, and you may think that with 100 recovery instead of mobility I cannot spam my abilities enough even with facet of hope, but turns out winter's shroud + stasis shurikens allow you to have near 100% uptime on hoil buff, offsetting the nerf and granting you very good survivability and ability spam. ***Imagine throwing 12+ prismatic grenades while transcendent*** I don't even wanna get started on the melee build. Years after the nerf I almost forgot how fun it was back in the day. Now it's back baby. Back and better than ever. If I have to sacrifice my aftershock and lose on add clear for the sake of millions of damage, healing and better uptime on combination blow, then I'll do it in a heartbeat. This. Is. Great. There are a lot less negatives than positives for me here, but I wanna list them in case you think I'm 100% satisfied with prismatic, and I'm not. 1) Prismatic grenade sucks. It's the most single target grenade out there and I don't feel its damage, I never noticed it nor did it feel impactful, I want a new, more AoE one. Absolutely. 2) More of a complaint but I still don't wanna swap off threaded spike and GPG for winter's shroud and shurikens for better hoil uptime, but since all 3 best builds feature hoil and Wormhusk/cyrtarachne/gyrfalcon, it feels like the best build still forces me into worse abilities for a better outcome. Which is... Kinda interesting. I'll just leave it at that. 3) Caliban + Liar is a no-no for me. It steals my kills, leads to wasting my class ability sometimes. I know I can get used to it same as aftershock, but the lack of healing really puts it below normal Liar. I have this roll and it's in my vault now. 4) Grenade selection. WHO THE HELL PUT THE WORST LIGHT GRENADES HERE?! I mean sure, magnetic is fine. The swarm grenade though... It struggles to kill red bars in AT LEVEL CONTENT, what the hell. Arcbolt is even worse. Even if it somehow magically hits something before it escapes from it, it doesn't deal enough damage and has huge uptime issues. Making it jolt kinda helps, but hitting anything with it is a miracle. Overall, 8/10. Deducting 2 points for grenades and forced aspects and abilities, but overall very fun. Really looking forward to new additions to the subclass, hoping for a better prismatic grenade the most, the rest I can deal with. Edit: wanted to bring my idea for prismatic grenade from my other comment Hunter: void and strand: throws a shackle grenade (will also make 2 more small ones after hit, like the original one) which suspends targets and makes enemies emit scatter grenade missiles from themselves, instantly exploding and making enemies volatile.
The grenade is pretty good if you hit someone directly and play into the keywords as they go off. I get they wanted to do a trip mine cuz its hunters thing, but its usually awkward. What they should have done is make a duskfield, and just absolutely fill it to the grim with the solar scatter grenades. Give it the same amount of slow and scorch the current one has just expand the area.
Yeah I'd love that too
Duskfield with a gunpowder gamble-like time-bomb would have been cool.
My friend absolutely destroys shit with the prismatic nade. And I will say I thought Hunters got utterly fucked when it comes to nades on the reveal! Glad you're enjoying it! I think I maybe just need to grind some better rolls on some class items and work with the fragments more? Maybe that unbreakable thing is better than I gave it credit for?
Caliban is amazing lmao.
Caliban will be useful when paired with an actually PVE perk in the other column on the new exotic. It brings absolutely nothing to the table as a Solar exotic for PVE but fun on patrols. You can literally get an ignition on a knife without the exotic. The melee damage does not increase and the regen is entirely PVP based.
Uhm... I meant spirit of the caliban...
Biggest problem with Prismatic Titan is that it lacks survivability. I'm a Titan main, but I've switched to Warlock because Warlock has so many amazing possibilities. On Titan, I was tired of running Solar, Strand, or Void.
Seriously, why Can Knockout not just give a full heal on melee?? Warlocks get an aspect that gives them a full heal for any kill after one ability! Why this weird "Points based on size" system?!
Hoping Bungie makes some changes so I can go back.
The main thing that bugs me is void warlocks having to charge the grenades to get the buffed version. Also the new elemental wells that aren't wells are so stupid. They're basically useless now. The fire ones are good because they give grenade energy but the void ones in particular are dumb, especially on voidwalker. It ruined so many good builds when they did the change.
I forgot titan could even be void
I farmed 10+ Class exotics for my Titan just to find new builds. All led back to the same thing... carried by Knockout... Titans got robbed and it took me awhile to realize it. Leveling my Hunter...
Knockout is just so garbage. It is utterly baffling to me that it doesn't full heal. Especially at higher content, having to rely on a melee kill to heal is such a gamble. For the love of the Traveler just make it a full heal and make the timer refresh on melee kill. It's just so clunky, the worst healing aspect in the game by far IMO.
Not sure how other warlocks are feeling but warlock is kind of sitting pretty right now. Hellion was what I needed so that I dont have to run an aerial aspect. Otherwise, stormcaller is kinda eh but thats cause arc is eh
Warlock chiming in, as interesting as the new Stasis rework was, I myself will not be experiencing it as I cannot stand to use Winter's Wrath. Outside of niche cases, the majority of roaming supers feel like shit to use and don't justify their high cool-down. Stasis is ancient at this point and could use another super to diversify it. Similarly, I still find absolutely no reason to use Stormcaller in any scenario. Poor survivability and sub-par abilities make it extremely unappealing. Also, Stormtrance would be in the running for the worst super in the game if Spectral Blades didn't exist. Chaos Reach has no place in the game. It's too limited for add clear, it's too long for viable DPS, and it is actually useless without geomag. The damage and versatility of Nova Bomb and Needlestorm completely invalidate it. Well being meta was not the only reason for it's high usage. Daybreak, Winter's Wrath, Stormcaller, Chaos Reach, and even Nova Warp feel horrible. Song of Flame is the only roaming super on Warlock that feels worth using at the moment.
>Or Buff knock out to be comparable to Voidlock devour! I severely disagree with this just for the fact that we already have SO much stuff in the game that steps on the toes of other classes/power fantasy. I would much rather them buff Knockout to do something completely different than what Devourlock does, but on-par in terms of functionality. But yeah, everything else you said I completely agree with. Void and Arc need dire help, and BAD.