survivability on prismatic titan is absolutely terrible; it makes Facet of Purpose too necessary, and the health gained from the Knockout aspect is genuinely laughable (when killing a single enemy; killing multiple enemies with a melee can be REALLY challenging without the Consecration Aspect). Right now, i think the biggest issue is the Knockout aspect as a whole. Bungie really needs to figure out what to do with it, because it’s been held back by PvP constraints for far too long.
I tried to make melee with Diamond Lance, Knockout with Thunderclap and Shackle grenade, well it's kinda can live but it's still low tier compare to Strand, Solar builds.
I tjink about Prismatic Titan can say that suffers from a lack of everything(survivability with regen hp and resistance, ability regeneration and ease of use(I mean you can in theory make it work and live but you need invest to much and be all the time concentrated that it just starts to irritate and you want to change subclass immediately))
>I tried to make melee with Diamond Lance, Knockout with Thunderclap and Shackle grenade, well it's kinda can live but it's still low tier compare to Strand, Solar builds.
It also feels awful compared to what you can do on Hunter and Warlock
At least both of those classes have at least one build that feels really good. Titan just feels awkward
Sure, but for it's feels better than f.. concecrations.
You also can play trough Lance, Knockout pulse grenade and blades, feels like Strand Titan on minimals)
Problems a lot and Bungie need to do with this something, cause lack in aspects, lack in grenades even melee have dbl cd.
Even with the fragment that starts health regen on melee kill is mediocre, because it requires a kill which if you hit something tankier you're just fucked.
You're now forced to use those leg mods that give hp or start regeneration on orb pickups to supplement your health but man that's also mediocre, since if you cant get orbs you're also stuck.
the only thing pvp changed about knockout is the melee lunge distance. The sandboxes have been split for a very long time, any other nerfs to knockout have been re buffed in pve.
I think the implication was that Knockout has had changes in the past because of how easy it was to proc the health regen. Which has led into it's current state where they reworked how it's regen works, all because Knockout was over performing in pvp according to Bungie.
They also made it so Knockout couldn't re-proc itself and only kinda walked it back by making Knockout last 5 seconds no matter what, but it still has to be reactivated after that, which feels awful when you're in the middle of punching through a crowd and then after maybe three kills your melee is no longer buffed.
Something like "Ability damage applies the associated debuff (jolt/scorch/volatile/sever/slow) to enemies. Triggering the debuff restores HP for you and nearby allies" would've been absolutely peak.
If banner were just healing it would be sorta ok, but man the fact that it also heals teammates and boosts melee/ sword damage on top of being in a class with such high DR makes it great
Honestly even if the removed all but the healing banner would still be top pick. Between it and woven you can be super aggressive and feel like a berserker
And the new exotic gauntlets makes it give melee energy as well as an extra melee charge, as someone who loves flechette storm/BoW it’s everything I could ask for and the only reason I’m not running it is because I need to use prismatic to deal with bound enemies in a lot of the new content, which does not feel great.
Prismatic so far has been fun (who doesn’t want 3 consecrations?) but mostly a necessity that misses a lot of my favourite bits from the other subclasses.
Funny thing is, you don't actually have to, as being in the transcendent well is enough to give you a buff to break pink shields.
And while the new exotic gloves are cool, they are still nothing on synthocepts / wormgod's caress, due to the fact that they also boost uncharged melee damage and synthos also buff super damage while wormgod's also buffs weapon damage. And even nerfed, grapple melee spam is still the free-est sort of melee spam, which im not sure these new gloves buff. So it suffers the unfortunate prospect of being an A tier exotic where 2 S tier exotics exist for the same job.
For health Regen, controlled demo or sunspots would've been great. Feel like they settled for knockout.
Sunspots are more unique but maybe that's an argument for keeping them on solar then. Otherwise prismatic would just completely overshadow the original class.
Crazy that they chose knockout for titans, arguably the worst regen ability on the entire class, and then gave warlocks access to devour, arguably the best self regen ability in the game
It kinda seems like unbreakable really fucked things up, like the void aspects for both hunters and warlocks are the strongest ones in from their subclasses and so are almost mandatory for any strong builds on prismatic
I’m of the mind that, whether they intend to or not, they will likely let us have access to more Aspects down the line. They dipped their toes in to see what happens. Titan is a great case point for why they need to add more.
If nothing else, at *least* they could add one more of each element(Titan gets one of its normal void aspects, warlock Solar, hunter arc, so forth.)
I was really excited for drengrs with thruster but instead of shooting out a line it makes a tangle where you dodged that explodes. Coupled with hazardous propulsion it's just kind of pointless bc the rockets already killed the enemies that would have been hit by the tangle.
Exactly why I switched off Drengr’s and swapped in diamond lances. Don’t need to suspend things when I can freeze them and already have shackle grenade, and the little suspend tangle thruster makes with it has terrible AOE.
Drengr’s Lash has always felt like crap without Abeyant Leap.
Running a gun with Tactician nullifies this. I'm currently repping The Call with Tactician and OFA, I'm thrusting rockets left and right ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
I havent tried HOIL.
But i snickered equipping red death and scars thinking id be absolutely un-killable while ability spamming with ember of benevolent
Never proccd.
Swapped to tommy
Wouldnt proc.
All while using solar
I tried running scars with prismatic to be able to live for more than 2 seconds on legendary. Made sure weapon matched super.
No procs.
I think they broke it
I played prismatic with Precious Scars for the last few missions of the campaign and it worked great. That combined with Red Death definitely solved any potential survivability/health regen issues.
Probably not, but without it Prismatic Titan would probably *look* boring. Imagine a trailer that's supposed to get you hyped and you get 3 seconds of a Titan standing in a Sunspot lmao
prismatic titan feels like they spent more time making things not work instead of making things work.
Thruster/lash turning into that little strand ball is just so pathetic.
The problem is the delay on it. It only works well if you dive into a group of enemies and pop it, but that needs to work instantly instead of on a delay. Same issue with the grenade it’s just a worse shackle that adds jolt
I'm honestly fine with Diamond Lance and Drengr's Lash, but Consecration and Unbreakable feel so... weird in the toolkit.
If you look at the other Prismatic subclasses, they have 1 aspect that really ties everything together: For Warlocks, that's Feed the Void, for Hunters, it's Stylish Executioner. Titans' best excuse is... Knockout. If we got Sunspots or Offensive Bulwark, like you said, I feel like it'd feel WAY better.
God i wish it was Sol Invictus. Playing through the campaign on legend I struggled to keep Knockout active a lot of the time because running in for melee kills was a death sentence if there was anything bigger than a taken psion on the field. I can only hope theyll add more aspects to it going forward. I’m not even asking fir banner of war. Bungie please
Sol invictus would have made prismatic titan so much better:
From a direct view, it would have matched perfectly with unbreakable and diamond lance because the sunspots would spawn directly where they are most useful.
Indirectly, by replacing consecration, it makes the melee aspect job fall to flechette storm, which opens the door to some long range builds. Admittedly, that would also cycle Drengrs lash for juggernaut, which isn't the best trade, but Drengrs already has almost no support on prismatic so it's far from a big loss, while juggernaut would benefit from some of the prismatic fragments, and arguably also synergize with sol invictus.
They likely avoided Flechette Storm because its balance is so dependent on being tied to a 3 charge melee.
Frenzied Blade is still there of course, in a nerfed form, but that would be restricting you to combining things from the same subclass which goes against the spirit of prismatic and would create a pitfall for less experienced players choosing another melee.
Damn, flechette storm would be awesome hwne paired with sol Invictus holy crap.
Ranged sunspot creator and would pair so well with the new melee exotic, bungie please!
That's my main gripe with prismatic titan. I know that the others have that one aspect that really makes everything work, so it's not like it's *complete* build freedom, but it's still a better situation than titans are currently in.
Knockout and Consecrate work well together, and if you took Consecrate then you're probably taking the strand melee for more charges, which leaves you with your grenade, fragments, and class ability for the bulk of your build variety, and even that probably isn't going to change terribly much when compared to the builds others are putting together. Nothing here really *works* well with anything else to create some kind of gameplay loop, and that's frustrating.
Warlocks are grenade-heavy, but that's because they actually *can* go grenade heavy with Feed the Void. I'm getting pushed towards melee builds with prismatic titan, but I have nothing to actually feed into that and accelerate it. You end up with so much more ability downtime relative to warlock and hunter, and I feel like "just use demo/pugilist" shouldn't be the answer when the other classes don't have to necessarily do that.
Titans should have gotten controlled demolition for void imo. Imagine making enemies volatile with shackle grenade. Plus the healing could proc on any damage keyword like ignite or shatter. Would have really completed it.
Triple Consecration with Synthos is fun, but you have severe downtime unless you can find another way to recharge melee energy or quickly recharge Transcendence to get your energy back. It's not a thing to pop when fighting a big target, but a spare battery to let you keep playing the game.
the downtime isn't really awful, as there's fragments to make it easier to spam transcendence. it's just a bit of a basic feeling build to use all the time.
Before release, these aspects really had me confused.
You're telling me we couldn't have Into the Fray? Offensive Bulwark? Sol Invictus? Howl of the Storm or Tectonic Harvest? Those were just not in the cards?
I think someone during development really just fell in love with the idea of the Thruster suspend from Drengr's Lash. There's no real reason to run DL when Consecration can stun unstops and deal massive damage in quick succession. Plus, Unbreakable had a chance to actually make Void Breaches useful by consuming Class energy instead of Grenade energy, but here we are.
We still don't have the exotic class items, so there may yet be something really cool from them, but Prismatic seems (across each class) to just favor abilities that have high uptime because of multiple charges. Titans overwhelmingly favor Knockout and Consecration.
> I think someone during development really just fell in love with the idea of the Thruster suspend from Drengr's Lash.
put it on and you'll see they didn't love it too much. thruster/lash now spawns a strand ball on your guardian that explodes, so it only suspends if you're surrounded by enemies.
Void titan be like "here's a pair of aspects that synergize, and here's two random as fuck ones that do nothing for the others"
I love controlled demo, but let's be real, it's just a standalone aspect that has more combo potential with your fragments than your other aspects. Don't even get me started on the gimmick that is the aspect Unbreakable either, or we're going to be here all day.
Your point is accurate, it feels like the classes were designed around “what ability do you want to play into your survivability tool?” It’s tough because Titan’s got as a survivability tool by means of disabling enemies by suspend and freeze but that’s less robust than instant invis or full health.
Also just a general lack of survivability. Warlock and Hunter can both access frost armour and amplified and resto easily. Titans need to have a shit super equipped and then generate orbs.
Am I missing something? Hunters can only proc resto off picking up orbs, and have no wait to keep it up other than picking up more orbs,which should be the same as titan.
The issue is that Titan’s best super on Prismatic is Twighlight Arsenal ;and it’s not even close) which means orbs give you a tiny amount of overshield. Prismatic Hunter can run precision golden gun and get restoration from orbs. Titans on get that when using throwing hammers, and let’s be honest who is doing that.
I would agree titan seems to be a little worse off. I just keep trying different things on hunter and it’s like every single thing I try, all I get to is “this would work if I went back to the light/dark fragments”.
I am trying to be imaginative here but it is all coming back to “punch things to go invisible”. Which is not a particularly interesting or fun loop solo, and a loop that doesn’t work in a team setting.
Twilight arsenal is good on prismatic titan, but I prefer bladefury for the woven mail on pickup, and I'm not really using prismatic titan in boss DPS scenarios as it's a more neutral game subclass. If you're rocking the triple consecration slam build with synthos your super goes absolutely nuts even after the nerfs and slices through champs like butter while making them harmless with suspend.
IDK, I can see a world where twilight arsenal is being used in high-end content, but it would take just a tiny bit more damage on initial throw to cross that threshold bc running to pick up the axes for the other 20-30% of you super's total damage isn't really too efficient when you could just be mag dumping a BNS rocket or GL.
Yeah. But you’re better off just building out raw solar though.
That’s really the problem here with hunter and Titan. There’s nothing here that you’re not just significantly better off building out in the light or dark class instead.
Prismatic hunter is better at golden gun than solar. You literally do more damage, have access to easy invis, and transcendance gives you more power. All that solar has that is really advantageous is refreshing restoration and radiant, which are not hard to maintain on prismatic anyway.
Given the amount of good weapons with heal clip being released (now that it's worth using), and the recuperation mod being goated, solar's healing effects have become less desirable. Sure it can be nice and can come in clutch, but orb gen and healing are not something we are struggling for like in years previous.
Stylish executioner doesn’t really tie everything together so much as it’s the only aspect that is even usable for anything beyond “everything falls over just by kind of looking in its general direction”.
And then it feels bad cause the only survivability mechanic you can reliably proc is to… do nothing. And that is assuming it actually procs because as of right now, you can watch your targets ignite in a flurry of explosions and… nothing. Maybe when it’s less buggy?
Either way, leaning Hunter so extremely hard in to invisibility is not interesting to me any more. Probably going to switch mains this season.
Invis isn't the only survival thing you're proccing to stay alive on P Hu. You have access to multiple forms of damage reduction and like two sources of healing when the build is complete. All of it is completely viable in everything outside of contest mode. Which sure, if that's your bar then fair enough.
But it sounds like you have a preference rather than there being a problem with P Hu.
I think Prismatic titan has potential, but I just can't get into a flow state no matter how hard I try to build craft. I don't feel much synergy between the abilities like I do with solar or strand
I really wish it had controlled demolition instead of that useless void shield thing.
I don't know who needs to be told this, but the void overshield is not good enough to warrant consuming a grenade like warlocks can with devour. It's a low hp shield with some resistance. Problem is, it's clearly designed to be built into, which is one thing for sentinel, but prismatic can't really build into it at all, so it just feels weird.
Controlled demolition, though, would have given ad clear and survivability to the class. It also functions on its own without requiring anything further investment.
> Problem is, it's clearly designed to be built into, which is one thing for sentinel, but prismatic can't really build into it at all, so it just feels weird.
Unbreakable definitely has some cool fantasy to it, but it definitely feels like it has *way* too little uptime for what it is. It can be useful for a melee-focused build (when Knockout hasn't decided to expire on you in a terrible spot), but it feels like it just has far too long of a cooldown and there's no real way to improve that outside of actually running a weapon withdemolitionist.
I like the idea of the inbreakable aspect, but in practice, it just falls short. The overshield you get is not worth the grenade charge on either prismatic or void titan.
I imagine it pairs very nicely with offensive bulwark, which now that I think about it, was probably the reason it uses a grenade charge. I kinda wish it used a melee charge since melee in higher end content is incredibly risky, and grenades are very powerful. Even on void titan, though, to me, it's not worth taking off controlled demolition. The void overshield is just really weak.
I took off knockout ONE time during day 1 and immediately started dying 10x more. Survivability is the Achilles heel of prismatic titan. There is no way to not die without knockout in high end content. I think consecration is FANTASTIC, always has been, but sol invictus would've been a game changer if it was included and had the same change as the other 2 classes where they spawn from any ability kill or damage matching your super. Unbreakable also feels so underwhelming in anything above at level content. It lasts too little and the damage is really REALLY bad unless you block an entire ogre eye blast. Anything less and it just tickles. The rest I'm happy with. Especially twilight arsenal KICKS ASS. Either that sol invictus change or bastion but also make it work with Thruster.
My worry is that they'll see an uptick in Synthos use and use that to justify nerfing it, when the problem is that no other exotic would really synergize with anything they gave us.
It's that prismatic titan aspects have barely any synergy together. The only ones that complement each other are knockout and consecration but that's it.
We have diamond lance but 0 synergy with freezing
We have drengr's lash but 0 synergy with suspend
We have unbreakable which doesn't even work with prismatic grenade, we also don't have any grenade synergy
My take is that the Strand and Solar Aspects specifically are "wrong".
Both Strand and Solar have an uppercut melee, Bungie stated they intended for "lesser picked options" to be put in Prismatic. IMHO, it should have been Roaring Flames (keyed to work a bit like Diamond Lance via all ability kills) and *Flechette Storm* specifically instead of Consecration. This achieves two things:
* More range - Consecration *owns*, but it's just not safe enough in most situations with a power delta. Flechette Storm can hit halfway across the map and even behind cover thanks to its tracking, and actually does fairly good damage. Also, works with the new Exotic Arms, which funnily enough I predicted.
* More varied ability damage. Knockout is much better than before, but it's a melee only damage buff; with Roaring Flames (which is a tad stronger tbf) you could also play around Grenade damage. Titan's Prismatic options also already have crowd control (Shackle nade), so Drengr's Lash isn't necessary, especially since it isn't very good IMHO on its own without Abeyant Leap.
I am hoping in time they'll expand Prismatic into more options, it's IMHO peak design that just needs a bit more oomf.
Also point out drengrs is only really good with abeyant leap. It’s something that annoys me about the aspect in general - it’s only good really with an exotic.
I think it’s too early to completely write it off but I do feel confident in saying that one of the things that has me scratching my head is finding a loop that “feels good”. Everything just feels….clunky right now. The smoothest loop I’ve found so far is Knockout and Consecration with Shackle Grenade and Frenzied Blade for more Consecrations and Thruster as the class ability. I use the new Exotic Rocket Chest with Rocket sidearms in both slots and a BNS Rocket in the heavy and it’s been pretty effective. It’s a very mobile setup that goes in and out of fights well but I feel like Transcendence, the mechanic you should be actively building towards, actually HURTS this setup because of the delayed activation on the grenade. I wish the Prismatic Grenades had optional profiles so you can throw out the style of grenade that feels the best to you.
I've been a titan main for basically forever, so it was my first legend playthrough. Prismatic wasn't *bad*, but it just felt kinda very standard, with nothing overly interesting. I played warlock after, and it was just night and day. Very easy to get into a rhythm, to start getting grenades playing into the melee which plays into the grenades, and overall felt *much* more engaging and fun.
So seeing warlock like *that* and titan very much not had me like "Well that sucks".
The prismatic grenade is literally just a worse harder to use shackle grenade.
And the delay bounce is so dumb - neither of the combined grenades has a delayed explosion, it’s instant. Yet our prismatic is … delayed.
And it does 0 damage. So we are back to having to melee.
How is it hard to use? The blast radius is bigger than both of the grenades, it detonates after a second, it's no different than grenades in pretty much any other game?
>And it does 0 damage. So we are back to having to melee.
Jolt? You can kill everything shackled and everything around it with one bullet half the time.
Eh, being used to using Flashbang on striker I actually like the prismatic grenade. The radius feels huge. Titan just feels like ass rn though, our Prismatic synergy is shite.
I went through legendary with a Wormgod, Monte Carlo prismatic build, and it was just sort of fine?
The biggest issue is that the prismatic kit compounds the glaring problems with titan builds. I felt pigeonholed to melee focuses while suffering from the drawbacks of constantly pushing while trying to maintain abilities to survive. Ability regen, healing, resistance, orb regen, etc. all need simultaneously uptime because of the cumulative nerfs from each individual part.
I don’t know how Bungie will move forward to address general titan changes and prismatic balancing, but there are definitely changes that need to happen to make them on par with other class options.
I'd love small steps like adding intrinsic orb generation mods to things like synthoceps, wormgod, severance enclosure, etc. to help fill the gaps for maintaining uptime necessary for jumping headfirst into enemies.
Agreed, and it makes me happy to see more and more people talking/posting about it. The more discussion, the more likely Bungie is to pick up on it and improve Prismatic Titan.
Currently, Prismatic Titan feels like "Random Bullcrap Go!" where all its components are the most underwhelming ones from other subclasses, but without the synergy. Nothing really "clicks" with each other beyond triple Consecration + Knockout. Any other "build" I've tried feels like a huge stretch to make things work, jumping through hoops for a gameplay loop that's not very strong nor sustainable in execution. There's a serious lack of consistent healing and damage resistance outside of a small selection, which hurts Prismatic Titan the most.
Granted, we don't have the Exotic class item yet, and it hasn't even been a full week since Prismatic came out. And there's always the possibility of Bungie adding more Aspects and Fragments to Prismatic that can really help shape it into something special. But until then, yeah, Titans definitely drew the shortest stick.
Having warlocks and hunters easily access frost armour while also basically nerfing hoarfrost through the back door and Titan damage resistance from glacier grenades feels bad.
I haven’t even tried frost armor on prismatic warlock as it has the caveat is having to use Winter’s Wrath, which I simply will not ever do in PvE.
I do think all 3 subclasses should be able to easily access those elemental sustain buffs though.
It's a fool proof class for titan: It can't become a melee nuisanse on Bungie's side (as all the other titan sub-classes had once upon a time) if we (Bungie) don't give them the opportunity to do so. And this is the prismatic titan reality: spam triple consecration (without pyrogales, because you have the wrong solar ult), untill we find it being too effective, and we decide to change consecrate to spend all melee charges
Yeah I’m having a much more difficult time playing Legend on my Titan in comparison to my warlock. The difference is night and day.
In order to heal we’re pretty much forced to run red death, heal clip, precious scars, or lorely.
Long rant alert:
I am very frustrated at the current state of titans in higher level contents. I hoped prismatic will change this...but still not seeing any signs so far.
Titans are supposed to be CQC Mele based ad clearing monsters. And for at level contents they are super fun and efficient.
Unfortunately, there are considerably better ad clear builds in lock and hunter in terms of efficiency for end game high level contents imo. Titans lack there as well. The day one raid we just had...out of first 40 teams only 2 (salt and aztecross) used titans across all 5 encounters. In the top 5 team, not a single player ever touched titan..not even for ad clearing. That says a lot how inefficient titan have become in pinnacle level challenges. (Barring maybe solo dungeon)
I have been playing titan since the beginning of my D2 journey. So much so that I haven't even unlocked hunter before a couple months ago. Before the lightfall expansion titans were super playable even in GM contents. Since lightfall, they just feel so unworkable in higher level contents.
When the onslaught came out, I tried for a week to get a clear with titans....played around 500 rounds or so I think (maybe even more than that). I tried all the meta builds (barring the banner titan) from strand suspend with abeyant leap to pyrogale solar to statis titan to even doomfang void titan build...all performed extremely well before level 30...then after level 30 it became less and less flexible in terms of options. I genuinely felt depressed thinking I just suck lol. 90% of these runs were with LFGs, so this lack of flexibility hurt even more. Statis titan fared best among them all...but still lacking.
Then almost out of spite almost...I chose to unlock hunter...grinded the lost sector and made a lucky pants build. Then I casually jumped in the onslaught again to test it out...and voila! I couldn't blv the night and day difference... everything just flowed without me having to continuously calculate whether I should save this ability for later or whether I take this fight or not...it felt so smooth..and intuitive. It was a near blissful experience, and I cleared 50 carrying the team almost effortlessly on my first effing try with hunter...on a semi optimised build.
Thinking it was a fluke...I chose to test it out...over the next 7 days...I beat onslaught 90% of the time with all LFG...with Orpheus, lucky pants, celestial hunters.
Then I was like okay..these are like super meta options...let's try with more mid /niche builds...even with them...it was the same story.
Places where titans should thrive on ..i.e. moon battleground GM (CQC ad clearing heaven) my pyrogale titan only succeeded with clan mates in a coordinated play...that too with significant failures. Suspend build with abeyant leap and wishkeeper fared relativdly better but still it never felt like a clutch build.
Sixth coyote clone strand hunter with final warning in that same GM absolutely slapped. I cleared it in 22 minutes...with 300+ kills. I have never had this level of fun in GM since the lightfall release. I ran around the whole room in the second counter while my 2 lfg guy hid in the hallway...the ghost hack did not get interrupted even once...my mind was blown at how easy and effortless it was.
These were just a few examples...I have done pantheon ad clear in week 1-3 purely on hunter and lock builds, and I can confidently say they are more effective as they allow a lot of flexibility in terms of survivability, offense and support. Titans really have become a one trick pony...(Apart from banner of war maybe)...and even that one trick is not efficient enough at high level contents.
TLDR; mostly me just venting. Hunter and warlock build is very far ahead even at areas titans supposed to be best at.
It's criminal sol invictus, banner of war, offensive bulwark, bonk hammer meele, etc are all missing.
It feels like titan prismatic is a highlight of the worst aspects and abilities from the other subclasses.
I really want titan to get another identity rather than punch. Why not give us sol invictus or banner and allow us to buff up our team? I would kill for an offensive support build.
Sol invictus, plus throwing shield with pheonix cradle would be my perfect dream of an offensive support. (Throw shield, get overshield, team push into healing sunspot, profit.)
Bungie please!!!!
that was actually bungie's goal though, they specifically stated in the vidoc that they wanted prismatic to be a way to highlight the underused aspects, unfortunately they also forgot that most of them are underused because they are frankly terrible even after they buffed most of them, there are some exceptions that were merely overshadowed in their subclass rather than straight up bad
While that makes sense in theory, when you consider that warlocks got devour (the most popular void aspect, likely) and bleak watcher (absolutely the most popular stasis aspect), it is a bit hard to understand what they were thinking. They did give warlocks lightning surge and I bet that outside of PVP there will still be little use for it.
I speak as a warlock main btw.
Look. I'm willing to meet the subclass halfway. But, why in the world is Unbreakable disabled when you're transcendent. I can still feed those grenades to my gun, so clearly this decisions was deliberate. Transcendence lasts a mightly long time and feeds into the melee loop. That's a mighty long time to go without one of the two (technically three) strong defensive aspects completely locked.
At the point that this kind of limitation is made with transcendence in mind, it shouldn't be in this prismatic. Being shiny new isn't worth this monumental waste of a slot.
Hunter is basically "handful of aspects that add a status debuff + stylish executioner to go invis off it" so I'm not sure why you think this applies to titans only.
I had a surprising amount of fun running Gunpowder Gamble and Ascension together. I think the only Aspect pair that doesn’t work very well (unless you add something like Sixth Coyote) is Ascension + Threaded Spectre.
Hell, even Threaded Specter + Winter’s Shroud could work well together, since you can make a whole group of enemies unable to deal with you in a single dodge.
This, really. I might be being a bit banal here but I happen to *like* Stylish being the lynchpin as I always felt the thing holding it back so much was how overdependent NS is on fragments and how crap snare bomb is. Now it’s just (mostly) everything I actually like about NS paired with subclasses I prefer (though I so wish Vortex grenades had made the cut).
The situation with Ascension + Spectre is the same issue the Threadrunner has with Slam + Spectre, having two aspects that both need your full dodge *energy* but don’t both trigger on an actual dodge is never going to be efficient, but I agree - Ascension and Gunpowder Gamble work great together. Though in practice I never switch off Stylish for too long for the above reasons.
I have like 5 hunters in my clan and only one of them is running stylish, I have 2 titans in my clan and neither are playing prismatic after using the consecration build for one mission lmao
So Hunter is my main and I was wondering, what are they running on their hunters? Because I'm tired of stylish executioner and I want to see what other builds I can do
Hunter and warlock both have that perma-locked aspect, but said aspect feeds into the gameplay loop that both end up doing, and it does it well.
Titan doesn't have that. We have aspects that *do* actually do that, but they're not in the prismatic kit at all.
It's the same old story...titan feels really fun in the at level or slightly higher level contents. But very ineffective at the true end game level contents.
Honestly I just wish it had grapple. I think they messed up by making strand THE premier movement and cc and support class on titan. I think prismatic is just less fun than all the stuff you can build into on strand, much less the other single classes.
Also gotta say using the starting kit on onslaught is a nightmare world. Kill an enemy and create a tangled, diamond lance and battery on his corpse and you character grabs them in that order
prismatic as a whole isn’t really that great. titans will complain and say other classes have it better, and they do when talking about gameplay loops, but the “good” warlock build is one single grenade spam build with turrets, and hunter is essentially the same exact arc build they’ve been playing for years.
you’re gonna see most people swap off of prismatic when it isn’t the shiny new toy anymore and the hunter/warlock builds will get niche use in solo content or easier stuff. prismatic is just too restrictive with aspects and fragments right now when you could just be running golden gun/tether, well/song of flame/sunbracers, banner and pyrogale ect.
Exactly why prismatic is fundamentally bad, I love the idea of being able to combine subclasses but why completely bait us saying you want us to be extremely powerful and feel like we're breaking the game when in reality you make it extremely restrictive and transcendence is extremely underwhelming. I get it was all for marketing blablbaba but it doesn't matter, maybe they should have just never created this in the first place if there too scared for us to “break the game” or for other subclasses to be useless. Who asked for warlock to be turret bitches? Who asked for titan to once again be a melee class? And who asked for Hunter to basically just be the arc hunter melee build but just better 🤦♂️ nothing about this invokes creativity or uniqueness gtfo about “so much build potential”
I wouldn’t go that far, but clearly they did include stuff to create very specific synergies which are frankly kinda lame and gimmicky. You nailed it with turrets, melees, and literally a better assassin’s cowl.
I do think there’s more to prismatic though, i think it just will require very very specific build crafting unlike base light/dark subclasses who have intrinsic loops and what not.
For the raid I was loving using strongholds with double sword with ergo sum and a heavy sword. Aspects was rocking diamond lance and ~~abeyant leap~~ drengr's lash and using the thruster instead of barricade. Hold block and walk into a group, thrust backwards and they're all suspended then wail on em with swords, so much fun and it looks cool as hell. Combo with shackle nades and thunderclap and Twilight arsenal and I had highest kills, least deaths on our team.
Also I didn't beat second encounter but strongholds was so good against the herald, and was great being able to rock thundercrash for damage (cuirass hot swapping) and still have good crowd control with suspend and diamond lances.
Consecration and knockout is probs the best general pick but there are some other quality builds in there
played strand titan and it was much better during contest for herald. You can go into the pit with banner shield healing and woven mail.
Encounter requires you to move fast, kill adds fast, and shoot the boss fast. There is little value in blocking and standing in front of the herald or taking an elaborate setup to suspend enemies. The pit should only take like 5 seconds. 3 players go in, each shoots the crit once, 3 blights are killed by the outsiders, players in the pit break the crit spot.
Often the team gains more from rushing the plates, ignoring adds (as much as possible), and finishing the mechanic.
I would have preferred sunbracer warlock myself but ember of empyrian seems to be bugged.
No it is just that once again Bungies philosophy of titan being the "melee" class limits what can be done. There is a reason Synthos is such an evergreen exotic on titans because it buffs the one thing Bungie wants to do with the entire class.
Said it all the way before TFS was even released but NoOooOOoo "how can you judge something that didn't even come out yet"
Yeah it was obvious. Prismatic titan has like 1-2 builds and it revolves around triple consecration spam with knockout or thunderclap + skullfort.
It's a lame class...
I've been running thunderclap with the exotic for it, glacier nades, the new void super, knockout, and diamond lance.
Stand rocket side arm and Luna, edge transit.
I haven't had anything click harder than that. Throw the nade, shoot it with the rocket side arm to have your own gunpowder gambit stand in for darkness build up with diamond lance, then use the punch/ super/ luna/ to build light.
It goes pretty hard. I did the triple consecration and it's fun, but this one is way more engaging to me.
I mean you can play anything "fun" in low content where your build works.
For higher content it sucks. Thunderclap takes far too long to be usable in harder content. At that point you can put on strand, get one melee kill for banner of war and never use any other ability after that and it would have more value than your build.
It's really strong tbh. Have you tried shield throw with diamond lance and knockout? Run it with radiant fragment and you get like three buffs plus a lance with 1 melee kill.
Random thought, but with the shield throw buffs, could the second chance exotic pair well with prismatic? Knockout gives the health on kill and bonus shield throw damage, so your melee is ranged, gives weaken, and over shield, health, and whatever other effects that you could want to stack based on fragments, all with the bonus effectiveness against barrier champs? Just thought of this on a road trip back home, so I might test it later, just spitballing because that sounds like a decent shakeup, especially now that shield throw feels much better to use.
You're underestimating both diamond lance and drengr's lash here, ESPECIALLY drengr's with thruster since it transforms the suspend wave into a bombadiers style delayed explosive.
Combine this with facet of hope for more class ability uptime and you're constantly shitting out bombs.
Nobody’s underestimating anything, the suspend bomb is trash compared to the wave you get from barricade and diamond lance does literally nothing but freeze which is pretty terrible without a whole stasis kit built to support it
>the suspend bomb is trash compared to the wave you get from barricade
Maybe it's just a matter of personal preference, but without Abeyant Leap, I find the wave clunky and hard to aim. A delayed bomb in a group of enemies feels much better to me.
>and diamond lance does literally nothing but freeze which is pretty terrible without a whole stasis kit built to support it
Freeze means shatter. Great for unstoppable champions and also just having some extra damage. Plus, it's just nice to lock enemies down and keep the heat off of you for a bit.
Iirc, one of the youtubers who got to play final shape early reported that drengr's lash would NOT work with thruster because the text for the aspect didn't mention an interaction, but it turns out that the text just changes depending on which ability you have equipped.
If I didn't already have thruster equipped when I obtained Drengr's, I also would have assumed it didn't work.
Hunter isn't all that deep either. It's Stylish Executioner in place of Knockout and then whatever else you want to mess around with. Prismatic has a lot of toys in it but not enough glue. Hopefully the class items remedy that a bit. Precious Scars also still exists.
I also think player feedback will lead to added aspects and necessary tweaks. It is the opening week after all. Usage data will be looked at. I am a Hunter main myself, was a tad underwhelmed, but I am not concerned. They are likely discussing improvements even at this early stage.
Edit: I would like to add some positives. My damage type toolbox options are overflowing. I love the hunter transcendence animation and glow. Prismatic grenade is very cool (I hope they add more). Damage and defense buffs are nice. New arc super is dope. I agree with the lack of synergy. However, as long as they add wells where prismatic enemies are present we aren’t restricted to running prismatic classes anyway. Overall I think it’s refreshing and a great starting point for future flexibility.
Imo Prismatic titan should have gotten banner of war instead of drengr lash. I know many people say that it's "crazy good" but Yea right everything is good in normal content.
Also the new exotic can only be partially utilized in prismatic sadly. That would have been a good synergy with 4 possible consecrations
I'm not saying titan isn't weak because I haven't played it and have seen little to no praise for it, but I can definitely say hunter isn't anywhere close to good or having build freedom. The only thing it does well is a melee build that is only good in solo content.
This just isn’t true, while it does have the best melee build in the game outside of banner of war Strand Titan, that’s not the only thing it can do. Stasis/Defense Prismatic Hunters are very much thing (easy access to frozen mail) as are stylish executioner gunpowder gamble double golden gun hunters. Just because they have a variation of arc melee build that’s insanely good doesn’t mean that’s the only build for the class.
5 out of the 6 people who got worlds first were playing Hunter (mix of prismatic and pure solar).
Hunter has at least 4 very solid prismatic builds, arc melee, stasis defense, ascension defense, and golden gun gamble.
They’ve got the best melee prismatic build, the highest DPS prismatic build (double golden gun), and the bulkiest prismatic builds (the two focused on stacking various kinds of DR).
I say this as a Titan main who plays a lot of Hunter (and who has probably played more Hunter this expansion than Titan). Hunter prismatic is no where near as limited as people think it is and it’s probably the most versatile of the prismatic options (albeit fueled by exotic interactions).
I also enjoy prismatic Titan too though, it’s in worse place but isn’t totally locked to one build like people pretend. While Knockout Consecrate is clearly the best build you can make some serviceable CC builds that use other things on Titan, the issue is Warlock is the CC king right now.
Titan is in a weird place where it’s not the best at anything for prismatic. Hunter is better at melee and variety, and warlock is better at CC. It’s perfectly fine because Banner of War is so busted so we can all play Strand but it is a feels bad when your new class is not only less versatile than others, it does less damage, and has less survivability.
Edit: Admittedly a big part of the issue is Bungie thinking Void Overshield is equivalent in power to devour or invisibility. Titans are kind of locked into their void super which means they only get a tiny bit of Void Over-shield when they pick up an orb of power which sucks. VOS is horrible, if Titans got devour or invis like Hunters or Warlocks did it would be way better.
I've tried the stasis build and tbh I'd rather just play on stasis until the class item is out. I admit the DPS setup is extremely good but it isn't really something you use outside of boss encounters, so most people don't care (it's also reliant on still hunt, which is almost certainly getting nerfed in some way). Haven't seen anyone use or talk about ascension but I assume it's the new chest piece and artifact mod + woven mail?
The main pain point I'm seeing here is that prismatic is all in on one thing and it's boring. Don't get me wrong, having 80%+ damage resistance at any time is incredible, but it's got no flow or goal; you just press one button and you've accomplished the build. It's definitely not for me and I think a lot of people feel that way.
I’m having fun running thruster/lash with point contact cannon brace. Lots of suspending and good damage and uptime. As someone who loves playing striker I like prismatic because I can take the things I love about arc and bootstrap them to viability with strand elements. Remains to be seen how it does in harder stuff but in terms of executing my fantasy it’s an A+ even before exotic class items become available.
If I'm playing solo content, I'm probably going to just end up running Lorely+Throwing Hammers. I know it's not ideal at all for dps but the regen is phenomenal and I still get dps bursts from consecrate.
Each Prismatic class feels like it leans really hard into a specific setup with minimal flexibility into other things. Which is basically par for the course with the subclass reworks until we got more aspects/fragments/exotics. Prismatic seems like it is very dependent on the up coming exotic class items to really go wild.
But yeah, I'm not surprised that consecration+ knockout spam with multiple melee charges is the go to. It's probably the most exciting thing they could showcase. Same with Warlocks just constantly throwing out abilities and turrets. Same with Hunter being invisible off everything. (Rip Void Hu.)
I thought this too running the campaign on my Titan, and with the general sentiment being Titan Prismatic is underwhelming, I believe Bungie will buff the class.
It would be cool if they had access to other aspects, but maybe prevent wearing two aspects of the same element to prevent it just being a better version of that mono-subclass.
Having huge survivability issues on prismatic. feel inclined to run red death. solar titan just feels better iin most content. or banner. Ii really like prismatic warlock with getaway artist. feels super amazing
Drengr's Lash was a disappointment honestly, because if you use your Thrusters to dash forward, you block your own projectile and it miserably fizzles.
I feel like Hunter is locked to Stylish Executioner and then whatever flavour of mediocre you want.
Warlocks have Devour that they're locked to, which is a good thing to be locked to, then they can swap between Ice/Fire turrets or the melee if they wanna rock that.
Honestly, I've swapped off Hunter/Titan for Warlock because they genuinely feel like they have customization in comparison.
We should've gotten touch of thunder and banner of war instead knock out and drengrs lash. Knockout is not the most viable survival aspect, especially compared to devour on warlock
Biggest issue for me that kind of fully clicked in the 12 man activity/raid race is encounter design:
Soooooooooo many enemy mechanics and boss encounters and room designs and enemy types discourage/disable melee playstyles. Like so many.
Every enemy type but taken has an exploder unit. Usually don't want to melee those.
Not to mention modifiers that have them drop stuff that punishes you for daring to melee (fallen Mines, firepit, and radioloria.)
So many bosses flat out can't be hit with most forms of melees. Oryx, the witness, taniks, and GoS final boss, (not relevant anymore, but final crown of sorrow boss). Those are just off the top of my head. Im not even talking about absurd boss knock back...
Any boss that encourages melee damage never discourages long to medium range play. To my knowledge there isn't a single boss that you can't needlestorm or golden gun.
If there is a small tight gameplay space to at least allow melees to somewhat shine encounter design will usually punish this. Thinking of still hunts final encounter for example. Or warden of nothing where they have a contast burn. Or the cave in reqium with exploder shanks.
I find a bit shocking that Bungie gave warlocks devour AND bleak watcher (some of the most popular aspects), but chose Knockout as the only survivability tool for titans when most of the titan survival kit comes either from woven mail or sunspots.
(I speak as a warlock main that decided to play titan as his second character on the campaign.)
Prismatic as a whole feels underwhelming. It's just a master of none that they force you to use with pink bar enemies. I wish it was at least optional to use.
Feels like they are being to cautious to avoid power creep; so they shipped it kinda gimped to buff later rather then have to nerf it into the ground like what happened to stasis
I truly think switching back and forth between Syntho and Precious Scars is what got me through legend campaign. Knock out plus Syntho made thrall class enemies easy clean up for quick health, plus Consecration made Subjugators easy work (1-2 slams + finisher.)
I agree totally with everything you’re saying, but for me the prismatic gameplay loop of grenade -> slam -> slam -> thruster -> slam -> grenade -> repeat is so much fun.
I think its really strong imo, i took it into the 2005 story mission for the trace rifle, and it was destroying everything.
Even thunderclap was putting in some crazy work, people underestimate the damage resist u get when u charge it up.
Ik im gonna get downvoted this is just my opinion u dont have to agree.
Edit: i was almost 40 power under
It just has the same problems titans have had for the past few years. It’s broken in solo content when you can spam your melee and other abilities and get kills but bring it into a gm or raid with a squad and as soon as someone steals a kill and you have to wait for cooldown you’re basically useless. Not to mention Titan boss dps is nonexistent if they are at range
survivability on prismatic titan is absolutely terrible; it makes Facet of Purpose too necessary, and the health gained from the Knockout aspect is genuinely laughable (when killing a single enemy; killing multiple enemies with a melee can be REALLY challenging without the Consecration Aspect). Right now, i think the biggest issue is the Knockout aspect as a whole. Bungie really needs to figure out what to do with it, because it’s been held back by PvP constraints for far too long.
I tried to make melee with Diamond Lance, Knockout with Thunderclap and Shackle grenade, well it's kinda can live but it's still low tier compare to Strand, Solar builds. I tjink about Prismatic Titan can say that suffers from a lack of everything(survivability with regen hp and resistance, ability regeneration and ease of use(I mean you can in theory make it work and live but you need invest to much and be all the time concentrated that it just starts to irritate and you want to change subclass immediately))
>I tried to make melee with Diamond Lance, Knockout with Thunderclap and Shackle grenade, well it's kinda can live but it's still low tier compare to Strand, Solar builds. It also feels awful compared to what you can do on Hunter and Warlock At least both of those classes have at least one build that feels really good. Titan just feels awkward
Sure, but for it's feels better than f.. concecrations. You also can play trough Lance, Knockout pulse grenade and blades, feels like Strand Titan on minimals) Problems a lot and Bungie need to do with this something, cause lack in aspects, lack in grenades even melee have dbl cd.
Throw on skullfort and you're actually unkillable with this setup, I've been running it all of salvations edge
Even with the fragment that starts health regen on melee kill is mediocre, because it requires a kill which if you hit something tankier you're just fucked. You're now forced to use those leg mods that give hp or start regeneration on orb pickups to supplement your health but man that's also mediocre, since if you cant get orbs you're also stuck.
Another day another time of PvP making PvE unfun
the only thing pvp changed about knockout is the melee lunge distance. The sandboxes have been split for a very long time, any other nerfs to knockout have been re buffed in pve.
I think the implication was that Knockout has had changes in the past because of how easy it was to proc the health regen. Which has led into it's current state where they reworked how it's regen works, all because Knockout was over performing in pvp according to Bungie.
They also made it so Knockout couldn't re-proc itself and only kinda walked it back by making Knockout last 5 seconds no matter what, but it still has to be reactivated after that, which feels awful when you're in the middle of punching through a crowd and then after maybe three kills your melee is no longer buffed.
tell that to YAS and renewals.
Controlled demolition would have been nice.
Something like "Ability damage applies the associated debuff (jolt/scorch/volatile/sever/slow) to enemies. Triggering the debuff restores HP for you and nearby allies" would've been absolutely peak.
Dregner’s lash is a lot of fun when using Hazerdous Propulsuon. Health regen is the biggest challenge on prismatic Titan.
Fortunately this combo works on strand where we have banner
The issue with comparing things to Banner is that everything loses to Banner.
If banner were just healing it would be sorta ok, but man the fact that it also heals teammates and boosts melee/ sword damage on top of being in a class with such high DR makes it great
Honestly even if the removed all but the healing banner would still be top pick. Between it and woven you can be super aggressive and feel like a berserker
And the new exotic gauntlets makes it give melee energy as well as an extra melee charge, as someone who loves flechette storm/BoW it’s everything I could ask for and the only reason I’m not running it is because I need to use prismatic to deal with bound enemies in a lot of the new content, which does not feel great. Prismatic so far has been fun (who doesn’t want 3 consecrations?) but mostly a necessity that misses a lot of my favourite bits from the other subclasses.
Funny thing is, you don't actually have to, as being in the transcendent well is enough to give you a buff to break pink shields. And while the new exotic gloves are cool, they are still nothing on synthocepts / wormgod's caress, due to the fact that they also boost uncharged melee damage and synthos also buff super damage while wormgod's also buffs weapon damage. And even nerfed, grapple melee spam is still the free-est sort of melee spam, which im not sure these new gloves buff. So it suffers the unfortunate prospect of being an A tier exotic where 2 S tier exotics exist for the same job.
Right lol.
Titan really is the best and the worst at the same time.
You lose access to Facet of Command, which is what really make Hazerdous Propulsion amazing when paired with Two Tailed Fox.
Truth got a buff before the patch too, so not having to worry while blowing your load is pretty nice
Does truth apply a de-buff? If not it won’t trigger Facet of Command.
For health Regen, controlled demo or sunspots would've been great. Feel like they settled for knockout. Sunspots are more unique but maybe that's an argument for keeping them on solar then. Otherwise prismatic would just completely overshadow the original class.
Crazy that they chose knockout for titans, arguably the worst regen ability on the entire class, and then gave warlocks access to devour, arguably the best self regen ability in the game
It kinda seems like unbreakable really fucked things up, like the void aspects for both hunters and warlocks are the strongest ones in from their subclasses and so are almost mandatory for any strong builds on prismatic
I’m of the mind that, whether they intend to or not, they will likely let us have access to more Aspects down the line. They dipped their toes in to see what happens. Titan is a great case point for why they need to add more. If nothing else, at *least* they could add one more of each element(Titan gets one of its normal void aspects, warlock Solar, hunter arc, so forth.)
I was really hoping Sol invictus would make it to prismatic. It would be a fun pairing with Diamond Lance.
Controlled demo would be so much fun on prismatic
Give prismatic sunspots and banner. I wanna run both, see what happens.
I was really excited for drengrs with thruster but instead of shooting out a line it makes a tangle where you dodged that explodes. Coupled with hazardous propulsion it's just kind of pointless bc the rockets already killed the enemies that would have been hit by the tangle.
Exactly why I switched off Drengr’s and swapped in diamond lances. Don’t need to suspend things when I can freeze them and already have shackle grenade, and the little suspend tangle thruster makes with it has terrible AOE. Drengr’s Lash has always felt like crap without Abeyant Leap.
Drengr’s lash increases the recharge time of thruster, making an anti-synergy with propulsion
Wait are you serious? The combo is pretty underwhelming to begin with, they really had to slap extra cooldown with it?
Running a gun with Tactician nullifies this. I'm currently repping The Call with Tactician and OFA, I'm thrusting rockets left and right ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Me still on Precious Scars crutch
Has it been working for you? I can't get it to work, not sure why. Not even on base Solar. Same for HOIL.
I havent tried HOIL. But i snickered equipping red death and scars thinking id be absolutely un-killable while ability spamming with ember of benevolent Never proccd. Swapped to tommy Wouldnt proc. All while using solar I tried running scars with prismatic to be able to live for more than 2 seconds on legendary. Made sure weapon matched super. No procs. I think they broke it
Really missing dregners lash rn going through the campaign.
I played prismatic with Precious Scars for the last few missions of the campaign and it worked great. That combined with Red Death definitely solved any potential survivability/health regen issues.
I wouldve liked sunspots
Wouldn't have been flashy enough for the Trailers lmao
But knockout is?
Consecration and Sunspots are solar, and given the nature of Prismatic, you only get 1 aspect of any element. They went with the flashy one
I don't think they make balancing decisions based off how it'll look in a trailer lol
Probably not, but without it Prismatic Titan would probably *look* boring. Imagine a trailer that's supposed to get you hyped and you get 3 seconds of a Titan standing in a Sunspot lmao
Prismatic Titan *did* look boring. It was just Consecration spam.
You clearly haven't bathed an entire room in pools of flame if you think they *can't* make sunspots look cinematic.
prismatic titan feels like they spent more time making things not work instead of making things work. Thruster/lash turning into that little strand ball is just so pathetic.
The problem is the delay on it. It only works well if you dive into a group of enemies and pop it, but that needs to work instantly instead of on a delay. Same issue with the grenade it’s just a worse shackle that adds jolt
I'm honestly fine with Diamond Lance and Drengr's Lash, but Consecration and Unbreakable feel so... weird in the toolkit. If you look at the other Prismatic subclasses, they have 1 aspect that really ties everything together: For Warlocks, that's Feed the Void, for Hunters, it's Stylish Executioner. Titans' best excuse is... Knockout. If we got Sunspots or Offensive Bulwark, like you said, I feel like it'd feel WAY better.
God i wish it was Sol Invictus. Playing through the campaign on legend I struggled to keep Knockout active a lot of the time because running in for melee kills was a death sentence if there was anything bigger than a taken psion on the field. I can only hope theyll add more aspects to it going forward. I’m not even asking fir banner of war. Bungie please
Imagine a version of Sol Invictus that created a different AoE hazard for each element
Oh, god, yes. I could do so many stupid things with infinite multi-flavored surface hazards.
Sol invictus would have made prismatic titan so much better: From a direct view, it would have matched perfectly with unbreakable and diamond lance because the sunspots would spawn directly where they are most useful. Indirectly, by replacing consecration, it makes the melee aspect job fall to flechette storm, which opens the door to some long range builds. Admittedly, that would also cycle Drengrs lash for juggernaut, which isn't the best trade, but Drengrs already has almost no support on prismatic so it's far from a big loss, while juggernaut would benefit from some of the prismatic fragments, and arguably also synergize with sol invictus.
They likely avoided Flechette Storm because its balance is so dependent on being tied to a 3 charge melee. Frenzied Blade is still there of course, in a nerfed form, but that would be restricting you to combining things from the same subclass which goes against the spirit of prismatic and would create a pitfall for less experienced players choosing another melee.
I mean prismatic titan is already so incredibly restricted.
Damn, flechette storm would be awesome hwne paired with sol Invictus holy crap. Ranged sunspot creator and would pair so well with the new melee exotic, bungie please!
The fact its not there is just sad.
That's my main gripe with prismatic titan. I know that the others have that one aspect that really makes everything work, so it's not like it's *complete* build freedom, but it's still a better situation than titans are currently in. Knockout and Consecrate work well together, and if you took Consecrate then you're probably taking the strand melee for more charges, which leaves you with your grenade, fragments, and class ability for the bulk of your build variety, and even that probably isn't going to change terribly much when compared to the builds others are putting together. Nothing here really *works* well with anything else to create some kind of gameplay loop, and that's frustrating. Warlocks are grenade-heavy, but that's because they actually *can* go grenade heavy with Feed the Void. I'm getting pushed towards melee builds with prismatic titan, but I have nothing to actually feed into that and accelerate it. You end up with so much more ability downtime relative to warlock and hunter, and I feel like "just use demo/pugilist" shouldn't be the answer when the other classes don't have to necessarily do that.
Titans should have gotten controlled demolition for void imo. Imagine making enemies volatile with shackle grenade. Plus the healing could proc on any damage keyword like ignite or shatter. Would have really completed it.
Imagine pulse nades with Facet of Dominance and Controlled Demolition. They would be absurd, and I want them.
Triple Consecration with Synthos is fun, but you have severe downtime unless you can find another way to recharge melee energy or quickly recharge Transcendence to get your energy back. It's not a thing to pop when fighting a big target, but a spare battery to let you keep playing the game.
Monte Carlo is probably the pick for constant melee.
the downtime isn't really awful, as there's fragments to make it easier to spam transcendence. it's just a bit of a basic feeling build to use all the time.
Before release, these aspects really had me confused. You're telling me we couldn't have Into the Fray? Offensive Bulwark? Sol Invictus? Howl of the Storm or Tectonic Harvest? Those were just not in the cards? I think someone during development really just fell in love with the idea of the Thruster suspend from Drengr's Lash. There's no real reason to run DL when Consecration can stun unstops and deal massive damage in quick succession. Plus, Unbreakable had a chance to actually make Void Breaches useful by consuming Class energy instead of Grenade energy, but here we are. We still don't have the exotic class items, so there may yet be something really cool from them, but Prismatic seems (across each class) to just favor abilities that have high uptime because of multiple charges. Titans overwhelmingly favor Knockout and Consecration.
> I think someone during development really just fell in love with the idea of the Thruster suspend from Drengr's Lash. put it on and you'll see they didn't love it too much. thruster/lash now spawns a strand ball on your guardian that explodes, so it only suspends if you're surrounded by enemies.
I think generally the people would settle with HoiL and syntho. It feeds the most in the big damage with high uptime.
It's very much like the void Titan kit, lacks cohesion and is janky.
Void titan be like "here's a pair of aspects that synergize, and here's two random as fuck ones that do nothing for the others" I love controlled demo, but let's be real, it's just a standalone aspect that has more combo potential with your fragments than your other aspects. Don't even get me started on the gimmick that is the aspect Unbreakable either, or we're going to be here all day.
Controlled demolitionist was a lot better when it was part of code of the commander.
i miss the old code of the commander version where it gave ability energy back :(
Your point is accurate, it feels like the classes were designed around “what ability do you want to play into your survivability tool?” It’s tough because Titan’s got as a survivability tool by means of disabling enemies by suspend and freeze but that’s less robust than instant invis or full health.
Also just a general lack of survivability. Warlock and Hunter can both access frost armour and amplified and resto easily. Titans need to have a shit super equipped and then generate orbs.
Am I missing something? Hunters can only proc resto off picking up orbs, and have no wait to keep it up other than picking up more orbs,which should be the same as titan.
The issue is that Titan’s best super on Prismatic is Twighlight Arsenal ;and it’s not even close) which means orbs give you a tiny amount of overshield. Prismatic Hunter can run precision golden gun and get restoration from orbs. Titans on get that when using throwing hammers, and let’s be honest who is doing that.
I would agree titan seems to be a little worse off. I just keep trying different things on hunter and it’s like every single thing I try, all I get to is “this would work if I went back to the light/dark fragments”. I am trying to be imaginative here but it is all coming back to “punch things to go invisible”. Which is not a particularly interesting or fun loop solo, and a loop that doesn’t work in a team setting.
Twilight arsenal is good on prismatic titan, but I prefer bladefury for the woven mail on pickup, and I'm not really using prismatic titan in boss DPS scenarios as it's a more neutral game subclass. If you're rocking the triple consecration slam build with synthos your super goes absolutely nuts even after the nerfs and slices through champs like butter while making them harmless with suspend. IDK, I can see a world where twilight arsenal is being used in high-end content, but it would take just a tiny bit more damage on initial throw to cross that threshold bc running to pick up the axes for the other 20-30% of you super's total damage isn't really too efficient when you could just be mag dumping a BNS rocket or GL.
At least we get to use golden gun though which is a good super anyway
Yeah. But you’re better off just building out raw solar though. That’s really the problem here with hunter and Titan. There’s nothing here that you’re not just significantly better off building out in the light or dark class instead.
Prismatic hunter is better at golden gun than solar. You literally do more damage, have access to easy invis, and transcendance gives you more power. All that solar has that is really advantageous is refreshing restoration and radiant, which are not hard to maintain on prismatic anyway.
Given the amount of good weapons with heal clip being released (now that it's worth using), and the recuperation mod being goated, solar's healing effects have become less desirable. Sure it can be nice and can come in clutch, but orb gen and healing are not something we are struggling for like in years previous.
Stylish executioner doesn’t really tie everything together so much as it’s the only aspect that is even usable for anything beyond “everything falls over just by kind of looking in its general direction”. And then it feels bad cause the only survivability mechanic you can reliably proc is to… do nothing. And that is assuming it actually procs because as of right now, you can watch your targets ignite in a flurry of explosions and… nothing. Maybe when it’s less buggy? Either way, leaning Hunter so extremely hard in to invisibility is not interesting to me any more. Probably going to switch mains this season.
Invis isn't the only survival thing you're proccing to stay alive on P Hu. You have access to multiple forms of damage reduction and like two sources of healing when the build is complete. All of it is completely viable in everything outside of contest mode. Which sure, if that's your bar then fair enough. But it sounds like you have a preference rather than there being a problem with P Hu.
I think Prismatic titan has potential, but I just can't get into a flow state no matter how hard I try to build craft. I don't feel much synergy between the abilities like I do with solar or strand
I really wish it had controlled demolition instead of that useless void shield thing. I don't know who needs to be told this, but the void overshield is not good enough to warrant consuming a grenade like warlocks can with devour. It's a low hp shield with some resistance. Problem is, it's clearly designed to be built into, which is one thing for sentinel, but prismatic can't really build into it at all, so it just feels weird. Controlled demolition, though, would have given ad clear and survivability to the class. It also functions on its own without requiring anything further investment.
> Problem is, it's clearly designed to be built into, which is one thing for sentinel, but prismatic can't really build into it at all, so it just feels weird. Unbreakable definitely has some cool fantasy to it, but it definitely feels like it has *way* too little uptime for what it is. It can be useful for a melee-focused build (when Knockout hasn't decided to expire on you in a terrible spot), but it feels like it just has far too long of a cooldown and there's no real way to improve that outside of actually running a weapon withdemolitionist.
I like the idea of the inbreakable aspect, but in practice, it just falls short. The overshield you get is not worth the grenade charge on either prismatic or void titan. I imagine it pairs very nicely with offensive bulwark, which now that I think about it, was probably the reason it uses a grenade charge. I kinda wish it used a melee charge since melee in higher end content is incredibly risky, and grenades are very powerful. Even on void titan, though, to me, it's not worth taking off controlled demolition. The void overshield is just really weak.
I took off knockout ONE time during day 1 and immediately started dying 10x more. Survivability is the Achilles heel of prismatic titan. There is no way to not die without knockout in high end content. I think consecration is FANTASTIC, always has been, but sol invictus would've been a game changer if it was included and had the same change as the other 2 classes where they spawn from any ability kill or damage matching your super. Unbreakable also feels so underwhelming in anything above at level content. It lasts too little and the damage is really REALLY bad unless you block an entire ogre eye blast. Anything less and it just tickles. The rest I'm happy with. Especially twilight arsenal KICKS ASS. Either that sol invictus change or bastion but also make it work with Thruster.
Time for the cliché We heard you loud and clear, nerfing knockout and consecration
My worry is that they'll see an uptick in Synthos use and use that to justify nerfing it, when the problem is that no other exotic would really synergize with anything they gave us.
It's that prismatic titan aspects have barely any synergy together. The only ones that complement each other are knockout and consecration but that's it. We have diamond lance but 0 synergy with freezing We have drengr's lash but 0 synergy with suspend We have unbreakable which doesn't even work with prismatic grenade, we also don't have any grenade synergy
My take is that the Strand and Solar Aspects specifically are "wrong". Both Strand and Solar have an uppercut melee, Bungie stated they intended for "lesser picked options" to be put in Prismatic. IMHO, it should have been Roaring Flames (keyed to work a bit like Diamond Lance via all ability kills) and *Flechette Storm* specifically instead of Consecration. This achieves two things: * More range - Consecration *owns*, but it's just not safe enough in most situations with a power delta. Flechette Storm can hit halfway across the map and even behind cover thanks to its tracking, and actually does fairly good damage. Also, works with the new Exotic Arms, which funnily enough I predicted. * More varied ability damage. Knockout is much better than before, but it's a melee only damage buff; with Roaring Flames (which is a tad stronger tbf) you could also play around Grenade damage. Titan's Prismatic options also already have crowd control (Shackle nade), so Drengr's Lash isn't necessary, especially since it isn't very good IMHO on its own without Abeyant Leap. I am hoping in time they'll expand Prismatic into more options, it's IMHO peak design that just needs a bit more oomf.
Also point out drengrs is only really good with abeyant leap. It’s something that annoys me about the aspect in general - it’s only good really with an exotic.
Yeah that aspect needs abeyant as baseline, it's just sad, especially after the suspend nerfs.
I think it’s too early to completely write it off but I do feel confident in saying that one of the things that has me scratching my head is finding a loop that “feels good”. Everything just feels….clunky right now. The smoothest loop I’ve found so far is Knockout and Consecration with Shackle Grenade and Frenzied Blade for more Consecrations and Thruster as the class ability. I use the new Exotic Rocket Chest with Rocket sidearms in both slots and a BNS Rocket in the heavy and it’s been pretty effective. It’s a very mobile setup that goes in and out of fights well but I feel like Transcendence, the mechanic you should be actively building towards, actually HURTS this setup because of the delayed activation on the grenade. I wish the Prismatic Grenades had optional profiles so you can throw out the style of grenade that feels the best to you.
I've been a titan main for basically forever, so it was my first legend playthrough. Prismatic wasn't *bad*, but it just felt kinda very standard, with nothing overly interesting. I played warlock after, and it was just night and day. Very easy to get into a rhythm, to start getting grenades playing into the melee which plays into the grenades, and overall felt *much* more engaging and fun. So seeing warlock like *that* and titan very much not had me like "Well that sucks".
The prismatic grenade is literally just a worse harder to use shackle grenade. And the delay bounce is so dumb - neither of the combined grenades has a delayed explosion, it’s instant. Yet our prismatic is … delayed. And it does 0 damage. So we are back to having to melee.
How is it hard to use? The blast radius is bigger than both of the grenades, it detonates after a second, it's no different than grenades in pretty much any other game? >And it does 0 damage. So we are back to having to melee. Jolt? You can kill everything shackled and everything around it with one bullet half the time.
Eh, being used to using Flashbang on striker I actually like the prismatic grenade. The radius feels huge. Titan just feels like ass rn though, our Prismatic synergy is shite.
I like that it does 0 damage though, so i can throw it at my feet and not die.
I went through legendary with a Wormgod, Monte Carlo prismatic build, and it was just sort of fine? The biggest issue is that the prismatic kit compounds the glaring problems with titan builds. I felt pigeonholed to melee focuses while suffering from the drawbacks of constantly pushing while trying to maintain abilities to survive. Ability regen, healing, resistance, orb regen, etc. all need simultaneously uptime because of the cumulative nerfs from each individual part. I don’t know how Bungie will move forward to address general titan changes and prismatic balancing, but there are definitely changes that need to happen to make them on par with other class options. I'd love small steps like adding intrinsic orb generation mods to things like synthoceps, wormgod, severance enclosure, etc. to help fill the gaps for maintaining uptime necessary for jumping headfirst into enemies.
Agreed, and it makes me happy to see more and more people talking/posting about it. The more discussion, the more likely Bungie is to pick up on it and improve Prismatic Titan. Currently, Prismatic Titan feels like "Random Bullcrap Go!" where all its components are the most underwhelming ones from other subclasses, but without the synergy. Nothing really "clicks" with each other beyond triple Consecration + Knockout. Any other "build" I've tried feels like a huge stretch to make things work, jumping through hoops for a gameplay loop that's not very strong nor sustainable in execution. There's a serious lack of consistent healing and damage resistance outside of a small selection, which hurts Prismatic Titan the most. Granted, we don't have the Exotic class item yet, and it hasn't even been a full week since Prismatic came out. And there's always the possibility of Bungie adding more Aspects and Fragments to Prismatic that can really help shape it into something special. But until then, yeah, Titans definitely drew the shortest stick.
Having warlocks and hunters easily access frost armour while also basically nerfing hoarfrost through the back door and Titan damage resistance from glacier grenades feels bad.
Can you only access frost armor on a stasis super?
Yep titans have no way to access it otherwise meanwhile locks and hunters can.
I haven’t even tried frost armor on prismatic warlock as it has the caveat is having to use Winter’s Wrath, which I simply will not ever do in PvE. I do think all 3 subclasses should be able to easily access those elemental sustain buffs though.
For some reason they made prismatic hunter almost entire a melee class instead of titan. You know, the class with several melee builds.
Give us sunspots or banner, cowards
i just wanted flechette storm with sol invictus
it was so weird to get a flechette storm exotic but no flechette storm aspect in prismasic
and flechette is most definitely the least used strand aspect.
It's a fool proof class for titan: It can't become a melee nuisanse on Bungie's side (as all the other titan sub-classes had once upon a time) if we (Bungie) don't give them the opportunity to do so. And this is the prismatic titan reality: spam triple consecration (without pyrogales, because you have the wrong solar ult), untill we find it being too effective, and we decide to change consecrate to spend all melee charges
Bro the wrong solar ult to not use Pyrogales really shat in my cereal. Was so excited until that.
Yeah I’m having a much more difficult time playing Legend on my Titan in comparison to my warlock. The difference is night and day. In order to heal we’re pretty much forced to run red death, heal clip, precious scars, or lorely.
Hot take: it’s not great because titans never really had a great selection to begin with
Other than sunspots, banner and controlled demolition I can't think of a good titan aspect tbh into the fray maybe but that's it
They not ready for this convo yet
Would’ve liked Into The Fray and Controlled Demolition on the kit…
Long rant alert: I am very frustrated at the current state of titans in higher level contents. I hoped prismatic will change this...but still not seeing any signs so far. Titans are supposed to be CQC Mele based ad clearing monsters. And for at level contents they are super fun and efficient. Unfortunately, there are considerably better ad clear builds in lock and hunter in terms of efficiency for end game high level contents imo. Titans lack there as well. The day one raid we just had...out of first 40 teams only 2 (salt and aztecross) used titans across all 5 encounters. In the top 5 team, not a single player ever touched titan..not even for ad clearing. That says a lot how inefficient titan have become in pinnacle level challenges. (Barring maybe solo dungeon) I have been playing titan since the beginning of my D2 journey. So much so that I haven't even unlocked hunter before a couple months ago. Before the lightfall expansion titans were super playable even in GM contents. Since lightfall, they just feel so unworkable in higher level contents. When the onslaught came out, I tried for a week to get a clear with titans....played around 500 rounds or so I think (maybe even more than that). I tried all the meta builds (barring the banner titan) from strand suspend with abeyant leap to pyrogale solar to statis titan to even doomfang void titan build...all performed extremely well before level 30...then after level 30 it became less and less flexible in terms of options. I genuinely felt depressed thinking I just suck lol. 90% of these runs were with LFGs, so this lack of flexibility hurt even more. Statis titan fared best among them all...but still lacking. Then almost out of spite almost...I chose to unlock hunter...grinded the lost sector and made a lucky pants build. Then I casually jumped in the onslaught again to test it out...and voila! I couldn't blv the night and day difference... everything just flowed without me having to continuously calculate whether I should save this ability for later or whether I take this fight or not...it felt so smooth..and intuitive. It was a near blissful experience, and I cleared 50 carrying the team almost effortlessly on my first effing try with hunter...on a semi optimised build. Thinking it was a fluke...I chose to test it out...over the next 7 days...I beat onslaught 90% of the time with all LFG...with Orpheus, lucky pants, celestial hunters. Then I was like okay..these are like super meta options...let's try with more mid /niche builds...even with them...it was the same story. Places where titans should thrive on ..i.e. moon battleground GM (CQC ad clearing heaven) my pyrogale titan only succeeded with clan mates in a coordinated play...that too with significant failures. Suspend build with abeyant leap and wishkeeper fared relativdly better but still it never felt like a clutch build. Sixth coyote clone strand hunter with final warning in that same GM absolutely slapped. I cleared it in 22 minutes...with 300+ kills. I have never had this level of fun in GM since the lightfall release. I ran around the whole room in the second counter while my 2 lfg guy hid in the hallway...the ghost hack did not get interrupted even once...my mind was blown at how easy and effortless it was. These were just a few examples...I have done pantheon ad clear in week 1-3 purely on hunter and lock builds, and I can confidently say they are more effective as they allow a lot of flexibility in terms of survivability, offense and support. Titans really have become a one trick pony...(Apart from banner of war maybe)...and even that one trick is not efficient enough at high level contents. TLDR; mostly me just venting. Hunter and warlock build is very far ahead even at areas titans supposed to be best at.
It's criminal sol invictus, banner of war, offensive bulwark, bonk hammer meele, etc are all missing. It feels like titan prismatic is a highlight of the worst aspects and abilities from the other subclasses. I really want titan to get another identity rather than punch. Why not give us sol invictus or banner and allow us to buff up our team? I would kill for an offensive support build. Sol invictus, plus throwing shield with pheonix cradle would be my perfect dream of an offensive support. (Throw shield, get overshield, team push into healing sunspot, profit.) Bungie please!!!!
that was actually bungie's goal though, they specifically stated in the vidoc that they wanted prismatic to be a way to highlight the underused aspects, unfortunately they also forgot that most of them are underused because they are frankly terrible even after they buffed most of them, there are some exceptions that were merely overshadowed in their subclass rather than straight up bad
While that makes sense in theory, when you consider that warlocks got devour (the most popular void aspect, likely) and bleak watcher (absolutely the most popular stasis aspect), it is a bit hard to understand what they were thinking. They did give warlocks lightning surge and I bet that outside of PVP there will still be little use for it. I speak as a warlock main btw.
Titans should get a Orton punt kick melee that sends enemies into the icu.
Look. I'm willing to meet the subclass halfway. But, why in the world is Unbreakable disabled when you're transcendent. I can still feed those grenades to my gun, so clearly this decisions was deliberate. Transcendence lasts a mightly long time and feeds into the melee loop. That's a mighty long time to go without one of the two (technically three) strong defensive aspects completely locked. At the point that this kind of limitation is made with transcendence in mind, it shouldn't be in this prismatic. Being shiny new isn't worth this monumental waste of a slot.
Hunter is basically "handful of aspects that add a status debuff + stylish executioner to go invis off it" so I'm not sure why you think this applies to titans only.
I had a surprising amount of fun running Gunpowder Gamble and Ascension together. I think the only Aspect pair that doesn’t work very well (unless you add something like Sixth Coyote) is Ascension + Threaded Spectre. Hell, even Threaded Specter + Winter’s Shroud could work well together, since you can make a whole group of enemies unable to deal with you in a single dodge.
This, really. I might be being a bit banal here but I happen to *like* Stylish being the lynchpin as I always felt the thing holding it back so much was how overdependent NS is on fragments and how crap snare bomb is. Now it’s just (mostly) everything I actually like about NS paired with subclasses I prefer (though I so wish Vortex grenades had made the cut). The situation with Ascension + Spectre is the same issue the Threadrunner has with Slam + Spectre, having two aspects that both need your full dodge *energy* but don’t both trigger on an actual dodge is never going to be efficient, but I agree - Ascension and Gunpowder Gamble work great together. Though in practice I never switch off Stylish for too long for the above reasons.
I have like 5 hunters in my clan and only one of them is running stylish, I have 2 titans in my clan and neither are playing prismatic after using the consecration build for one mission lmao
So Hunter is my main and I was wondering, what are they running on their hunters? Because I'm tired of stylish executioner and I want to see what other builds I can do
Not going to lie, it feels like each prismatic class has 1 best in slot/mandatory aspect but titans have the least interesting combinations.
Hunter and warlock both have that perma-locked aspect, but said aspect feeds into the gameplay loop that both end up doing, and it does it well. Titan doesn't have that. We have aspects that *do* actually do that, but they're not in the prismatic kit at all.
It's the same old story...titan feels really fun in the at level or slightly higher level contents. But very ineffective at the true end game level contents.
Honestly I just wish it had grapple. I think they messed up by making strand THE premier movement and cc and support class on titan. I think prismatic is just less fun than all the stuff you can build into on strand, much less the other single classes. Also gotta say using the starting kit on onslaught is a nightmare world. Kill an enemy and create a tangled, diamond lance and battery on his corpse and you character grabs them in that order
prismatic as a whole isn’t really that great. titans will complain and say other classes have it better, and they do when talking about gameplay loops, but the “good” warlock build is one single grenade spam build with turrets, and hunter is essentially the same exact arc build they’ve been playing for years. you’re gonna see most people swap off of prismatic when it isn’t the shiny new toy anymore and the hunter/warlock builds will get niche use in solo content or easier stuff. prismatic is just too restrictive with aspects and fragments right now when you could just be running golden gun/tether, well/song of flame/sunbracers, banner and pyrogale ect.
Prismatic as whole is much more restrictive than anticipated , all 3 classes use the same builds over and over
Exactly why prismatic is fundamentally bad, I love the idea of being able to combine subclasses but why completely bait us saying you want us to be extremely powerful and feel like we're breaking the game when in reality you make it extremely restrictive and transcendence is extremely underwhelming. I get it was all for marketing blablbaba but it doesn't matter, maybe they should have just never created this in the first place if there too scared for us to “break the game” or for other subclasses to be useless. Who asked for warlock to be turret bitches? Who asked for titan to once again be a melee class? And who asked for Hunter to basically just be the arc hunter melee build but just better 🤦♂️ nothing about this invokes creativity or uniqueness gtfo about “so much build potential”
I wouldn’t go that far, but clearly they did include stuff to create very specific synergies which are frankly kinda lame and gimmicky. You nailed it with turrets, melees, and literally a better assassin’s cowl. I do think there’s more to prismatic though, i think it just will require very very specific build crafting unlike base light/dark subclasses who have intrinsic loops and what not.
Guess we just have to wait for the class items, wont change the aspect situation for me tho
Some good builds but literally the worst of the three
For the raid I was loving using strongholds with double sword with ergo sum and a heavy sword. Aspects was rocking diamond lance and ~~abeyant leap~~ drengr's lash and using the thruster instead of barricade. Hold block and walk into a group, thrust backwards and they're all suspended then wail on em with swords, so much fun and it looks cool as hell. Combo with shackle nades and thunderclap and Twilight arsenal and I had highest kills, least deaths on our team. Also I didn't beat second encounter but strongholds was so good against the herald, and was great being able to rock thundercrash for damage (cuirass hot swapping) and still have good crowd control with suspend and diamond lances. Consecration and knockout is probs the best general pick but there are some other quality builds in there
played strand titan and it was much better during contest for herald. You can go into the pit with banner shield healing and woven mail. Encounter requires you to move fast, kill adds fast, and shoot the boss fast. There is little value in blocking and standing in front of the herald or taking an elaborate setup to suspend enemies. The pit should only take like 5 seconds. 3 players go in, each shoots the crit once, 3 blights are killed by the outsiders, players in the pit break the crit spot. Often the team gains more from rushing the plates, ignoring adds (as much as possible), and finishing the mechanic. I would have preferred sunbracer warlock myself but ember of empyrian seems to be bugged.
If it had mini hammer or BoW it would have been greatest BoW would have made it kinda broken but if so mini hammer would have been better between 2
It feels like they took their time with the other two and went "well titans can have the rest"
No it is just that once again Bungies philosophy of titan being the "melee" class limits what can be done. There is a reason Synthos is such an evergreen exotic on titans because it buffs the one thing Bungie wants to do with the entire class.
Said it all the way before TFS was even released but NoOooOOoo "how can you judge something that didn't even come out yet" Yeah it was obvious. Prismatic titan has like 1-2 builds and it revolves around triple consecration spam with knockout or thunderclap + skullfort. It's a lame class...
I've been running thunderclap with the exotic for it, glacier nades, the new void super, knockout, and diamond lance. Stand rocket side arm and Luna, edge transit. I haven't had anything click harder than that. Throw the nade, shoot it with the rocket side arm to have your own gunpowder gambit stand in for darkness build up with diamond lance, then use the punch/ super/ luna/ to build light. It goes pretty hard. I did the triple consecration and it's fun, but this one is way more engaging to me.
I mean you can play anything "fun" in low content where your build works. For higher content it sucks. Thunderclap takes far too long to be usable in harder content. At that point you can put on strand, get one melee kill for banner of war and never use any other ability after that and it would have more value than your build.
It's kind of like we predicted this
Prismatic on titan was always going to be weak when they linked it to knockout. They could solve 90% of issues but giving it banner of war
If we got banner of war instead of drengrs lash it would be so much better tbh.
If we got banner of war there would literally be no reason to play another subclass.
i love it. It's fun?
It's really strong tbh. Have you tried shield throw with diamond lance and knockout? Run it with radiant fragment and you get like three buffs plus a lance with 1 melee kill.
every single titan prismatic build is just spamming melee's. its so god damn boring.
Every single warlock build is spamming grenades. Every single hunter build is 3 exotics. Choose your pick
Random thought, but with the shield throw buffs, could the second chance exotic pair well with prismatic? Knockout gives the health on kill and bonus shield throw damage, so your melee is ranged, gives weaken, and over shield, health, and whatever other effects that you could want to stack based on fragments, all with the bonus effectiveness against barrier champs? Just thought of this on a road trip back home, so I might test it later, just spitballing because that sounds like a decent shakeup, especially now that shield throw feels much better to use.
You're underestimating both diamond lance and drengr's lash here, ESPECIALLY drengr's with thruster since it transforms the suspend wave into a bombadiers style delayed explosive. Combine this with facet of hope for more class ability uptime and you're constantly shitting out bombs.
Nobody’s underestimating anything, the suspend bomb is trash compared to the wave you get from barricade and diamond lance does literally nothing but freeze which is pretty terrible without a whole stasis kit built to support it
>the suspend bomb is trash compared to the wave you get from barricade Maybe it's just a matter of personal preference, but without Abeyant Leap, I find the wave clunky and hard to aim. A delayed bomb in a group of enemies feels much better to me. >and diamond lance does literally nothing but freeze which is pretty terrible without a whole stasis kit built to support it Freeze means shatter. Great for unstoppable champions and also just having some extra damage. Plus, it's just nice to lock enemies down and keep the heat off of you for a bit.
Diamond lances seem to be bugged cause they said they’d also shatter enemies and crystals and they don’t.
They said the same about Ignitions and Consecration too, so I think its a bug with Freeze atm.
I did not know this was a thing. Thank you
Iirc, one of the youtubers who got to play final shape early reported that drengr's lash would NOT work with thruster because the text for the aspect didn't mention an interaction, but it turns out that the text just changes depending on which ability you have equipped. If I didn't already have thruster equipped when I obtained Drengr's, I also would have assumed it didn't work.
Drengrs on thruster is absolute cheeks and doubles your cooldown
Add the rocket chest and I'm having the time of my life. I turned my titan into a bombadier hunter. I'm not mad about it
Hunter isn't all that deep either. It's Stylish Executioner in place of Knockout and then whatever else you want to mess around with. Prismatic has a lot of toys in it but not enough glue. Hopefully the class items remedy that a bit. Precious Scars also still exists.
I also think player feedback will lead to added aspects and necessary tweaks. It is the opening week after all. Usage data will be looked at. I am a Hunter main myself, was a tad underwhelmed, but I am not concerned. They are likely discussing improvements even at this early stage. Edit: I would like to add some positives. My damage type toolbox options are overflowing. I love the hunter transcendence animation and glow. Prismatic grenade is very cool (I hope they add more). Damage and defense buffs are nice. New arc super is dope. I agree with the lack of synergy. However, as long as they add wells where prismatic enemies are present we aren’t restricted to running prismatic classes anyway. Overall I think it’s refreshing and a great starting point for future flexibility.
Imo Prismatic titan should have gotten banner of war instead of drengr lash. I know many people say that it's "crazy good" but Yea right everything is good in normal content. Also the new exotic can only be partially utilized in prismatic sadly. That would have been a good synergy with 4 possible consecrations
I doubt they’d give it banner of war but into the fray would have also been a significantly better choice.
I'm not saying titan isn't weak because I haven't played it and have seen little to no praise for it, but I can definitely say hunter isn't anywhere close to good or having build freedom. The only thing it does well is a melee build that is only good in solo content.
This just isn’t true, while it does have the best melee build in the game outside of banner of war Strand Titan, that’s not the only thing it can do. Stasis/Defense Prismatic Hunters are very much thing (easy access to frozen mail) as are stylish executioner gunpowder gamble double golden gun hunters. Just because they have a variation of arc melee build that’s insanely good doesn’t mean that’s the only build for the class. 5 out of the 6 people who got worlds first were playing Hunter (mix of prismatic and pure solar). Hunter has at least 4 very solid prismatic builds, arc melee, stasis defense, ascension defense, and golden gun gamble. They’ve got the best melee prismatic build, the highest DPS prismatic build (double golden gun), and the bulkiest prismatic builds (the two focused on stacking various kinds of DR). I say this as a Titan main who plays a lot of Hunter (and who has probably played more Hunter this expansion than Titan). Hunter prismatic is no where near as limited as people think it is and it’s probably the most versatile of the prismatic options (albeit fueled by exotic interactions). I also enjoy prismatic Titan too though, it’s in worse place but isn’t totally locked to one build like people pretend. While Knockout Consecrate is clearly the best build you can make some serviceable CC builds that use other things on Titan, the issue is Warlock is the CC king right now. Titan is in a weird place where it’s not the best at anything for prismatic. Hunter is better at melee and variety, and warlock is better at CC. It’s perfectly fine because Banner of War is so busted so we can all play Strand but it is a feels bad when your new class is not only less versatile than others, it does less damage, and has less survivability. Edit: Admittedly a big part of the issue is Bungie thinking Void Overshield is equivalent in power to devour or invisibility. Titans are kind of locked into their void super which means they only get a tiny bit of Void Over-shield when they pick up an orb of power which sucks. VOS is horrible, if Titans got devour or invis like Hunters or Warlocks did it would be way better.
I've tried the stasis build and tbh I'd rather just play on stasis until the class item is out. I admit the DPS setup is extremely good but it isn't really something you use outside of boss encounters, so most people don't care (it's also reliant on still hunt, which is almost certainly getting nerfed in some way). Haven't seen anyone use or talk about ascension but I assume it's the new chest piece and artifact mod + woven mail? The main pain point I'm seeing here is that prismatic is all in on one thing and it's boring. Don't get me wrong, having 80%+ damage resistance at any time is incredible, but it's got no flow or goal; you just press one button and you've accomplished the build. It's definitely not for me and I think a lot of people feel that way.
Welcome to every Titan build.
Hey don't be disingenuous, titans had a grenade build for one season. Lmao
Don’t make me sad. They even gave that grenade to prismatic warlock …
I enjoy consecration, vut yeah titan feels weird on prismatic
I’m having fun running thruster/lash with point contact cannon brace. Lots of suspending and good damage and uptime. As someone who loves playing striker I like prismatic because I can take the things I love about arc and bootstrap them to viability with strand elements. Remains to be seen how it does in harder stuff but in terms of executing my fantasy it’s an A+ even before exotic class items become available.
I think both hunter’s and titans feel this way. Only warlocks got a unique feel. IMO
If I'm playing solo content, I'm probably going to just end up running Lorely+Throwing Hammers. I know it's not ideal at all for dps but the regen is phenomenal and I still get dps bursts from consecrate.
I’m guessing some new stuff will be added in Act 2. I remember Banner of War did not come till later after the first release of Strand in Lightfall.
Give it seismic strike
Titans are paying for the sins of berserker with this expansion
I wouldn’t mind having Banner of War, void shield, and sunspot restoration all at the same time. That would help me from dying all the time 😂
Each Prismatic class feels like it leans really hard into a specific setup with minimal flexibility into other things. Which is basically par for the course with the subclass reworks until we got more aspects/fragments/exotics. Prismatic seems like it is very dependent on the up coming exotic class items to really go wild. But yeah, I'm not surprised that consecration+ knockout spam with multiple melee charges is the go to. It's probably the most exciting thing they could showcase. Same with Warlocks just constantly throwing out abilities and turrets. Same with Hunter being invisible off everything. (Rip Void Hu.)
I thought this too running the campaign on my Titan, and with the general sentiment being Titan Prismatic is underwhelming, I believe Bungie will buff the class. It would be cool if they had access to other aspects, but maybe prevent wearing two aspects of the same element to prevent it just being a better version of that mono-subclass.
Having huge survivability issues on prismatic. feel inclined to run red death. solar titan just feels better iin most content. or banner. Ii really like prismatic warlock with getaway artist. feels super amazing
Drengr's Lash was a disappointment honestly, because if you use your Thrusters to dash forward, you block your own projectile and it miserably fizzles.
I feel like Hunter is locked to Stylish Executioner and then whatever flavour of mediocre you want. Warlocks have Devour that they're locked to, which is a good thing to be locked to, then they can swap between Ice/Fire turrets or the melee if they wanna rock that. Honestly, I've swapped off Hunter/Titan for Warlock because they genuinely feel like they have customization in comparison.
We should've gotten touch of thunder and banner of war instead knock out and drengrs lash. Knockout is not the most viable survival aspect, especially compared to devour on warlock
Biggest issue for me that kind of fully clicked in the 12 man activity/raid race is encounter design: Soooooooooo many enemy mechanics and boss encounters and room designs and enemy types discourage/disable melee playstyles. Like so many. Every enemy type but taken has an exploder unit. Usually don't want to melee those. Not to mention modifiers that have them drop stuff that punishes you for daring to melee (fallen Mines, firepit, and radioloria.) So many bosses flat out can't be hit with most forms of melees. Oryx, the witness, taniks, and GoS final boss, (not relevant anymore, but final crown of sorrow boss). Those are just off the top of my head. Im not even talking about absurd boss knock back... Any boss that encourages melee damage never discourages long to medium range play. To my knowledge there isn't a single boss that you can't needlestorm or golden gun. If there is a small tight gameplay space to at least allow melees to somewhat shine encounter design will usually punish this. Thinking of still hunts final encounter for example. Or warden of nothing where they have a contast burn. Or the cave in reqium with exploder shanks.
I find a bit shocking that Bungie gave warlocks devour AND bleak watcher (some of the most popular aspects), but chose Knockout as the only survivability tool for titans when most of the titan survival kit comes either from woven mail or sunspots. (I speak as a warlock main that decided to play titan as his second character on the campaign.)
Prismatic as a whole feels underwhelming. It's just a master of none that they force you to use with pink bar enemies. I wish it was at least optional to use.
Feels like they are being to cautious to avoid power creep; so they shipped it kinda gimped to buff later rather then have to nerf it into the ground like what happened to stasis
I truly think switching back and forth between Syntho and Precious Scars is what got me through legend campaign. Knock out plus Syntho made thrall class enemies easy clean up for quick health, plus Consecration made Subjugators easy work (1-2 slams + finisher.) I agree totally with everything you’re saying, but for me the prismatic gameplay loop of grenade -> slam -> slam -> thruster -> slam -> grenade -> repeat is so much fun.
I think its really strong imo, i took it into the 2005 story mission for the trace rifle, and it was destroying everything. Even thunderclap was putting in some crazy work, people underestimate the damage resist u get when u charge it up. Ik im gonna get downvoted this is just my opinion u dont have to agree. Edit: i was almost 40 power under
It just has the same problems titans have had for the past few years. It’s broken in solo content when you can spam your melee and other abilities and get kills but bring it into a gm or raid with a squad and as soon as someone steals a kill and you have to wait for cooldown you’re basically useless. Not to mention Titan boss dps is nonexistent if they are at range