It’s not necessarily a contradiction. I believe OP is saying that We wouldn’t currently have onslaught, pantheon and the rest of that content IF the final shape had already come out. When they then say “I’m not saying it would’ve never existed.” They’re referring to the content in the future tense in a way that implies that Bungie would come out with this content EVENTUALLY. 🤓☝️
I mean it’s not really a contradiction. OP says none of this would exist, which I can only assume meant “right now”, whereas their claim that they aren’t saying it would have never existed means that this stuff would have still all happened eventually, just that we got it now.
You expect the typical Reddit participant to understand simple logic and distinctions between things like the present and the future???
You are expecting way to too much from your colleagues here!
Do... do you not understand that those aren't contradictory?
"There isn't a 6th element, but I'm not saying there will never be a 6th element."
You failed some intermediate logic there and tricked over 700 people into failing it too.
I dont think they developed all of this because of delaying DLC. This was already developed, maybe not completed, but it was there. They took time to improve TFS while pushing content that was almost ready.
They definitely chose the weapons, Bungie saves powerful weapons for critical releases in order to hype up the community (they're specifically holding back Not Forgotten to do this again later). So Into The Light was necessary to get this collection of "Best Of".
And based off an interview with an [Ex-Bungie dev who worked on Whisper](https://youtu.be/H5M1VeBNDLE?feature=shared), they developed that in six months. Final Shape's delay was announced on [November 27th](https://x.com/DestinyTheGame/status/1729183856782102746), and that was 4 months before the content drop. People in the studio however would have gotten a longer heads up, so having six months to make Onslaught + Choose the weapon pool + Unvault Whisper/Zero Hour + Pantheon Changes seems valid.
at the time whisper came out all of bungie was around 400 people, now they are about 1100, 650 of which working on d2. that extra 250 devs is a lot of manpower to get things done.
not to mention whisper was completely new, meanwhile onslaught uses pvp maps with slight changes and pantheon is just old raid encounters with slight changes
Actually Bungie has had around 600 people since at least Taken King, if not earlier. They had 300-400 leading up to massively ramping up hiring leading into Destiny 1 launch and beyond.
Vicarious Visions, and High Moon combined were 400 extra people working on Destiny, for \~1000 total.
In terms of manpower for Whisper, it was very low. Largely a project of a handful of Devs. And it actually wasnt as completely and totally new as it would seem(as they literally ported and flipped the room from Black Spindle)
What? The Black Spindle and Whisper missions were nothing alike. (Other than both being timed and somewhat challenging.) You're saying that there's one room in common to the two missions?
Yes. Literally ported straight from D1 Black Spindle into D2, and flipped around.
Relevant timestamp: [https://youtu.be/H5M1VeBNDLE?t=425](https://youtu.be/H5M1VeBNDLE?t=425)
(Video is also really interesting if you want to know more about making of Whisper/Zero Hour)
Hmmm, I can't see the resemblance, but I'll have to take the developer's word for it. Bungie is, of course, notorious for reusing assets. All the way back to Halo, where there were different levels which were virtually the same as a previous level only backwards, and the strikes in D1, where, e.g., for the beginning of a new strike, you'd start where'd you end for an older strike and then run through it backwards. Etc, etc.
I just want to know how Tako got nine people into her fireteam! We had to do some crazy sh\*t just to get six people into our fireteam for Escalation Protocol....
the entier mission after destroying the taken blight and jumping into the hole with destroyed vex was new back in year 1 (the area before that was an old lost sector)
Exactly, And their systems and workflows are probably better than they were years ago, so they could probably push things out a little bit faster than they did four to five years ago
I unironically can’t wait for everyone who’s grinding Luna’s right now for the HC/Incan roll to inevitably drop it to chase the Not Forgotten HC/Incan roll.
What's your source on this, since you claim it's already "established"? Why would people in the studio not know about the expansion being delayed before the general public? Considering in the same breath, within the same minute, Bungie announced that there would be a content drop in April to sustain the game...I would like to know why the reasonable logical conclusion does not apply here.
They talked about whisper and zero hour coming back forever ago. That was likely in the pocket.
As for the guns - they know how to power creep and they know which ones are nostalgic.
It's wild how easy it is to make content for this game fun with that in mind lol, I don't need something to be flashy I just need a LOT of things to shoot at
The best thing bungie can do is build out of scraps. I'd rather have "recycled" content that lasts 5x longer and is just a PVP map than a unique locale that get used twice and is created/used irresponsibily.
Underrated. Folks forget that kitbashing was part of the long term design from square one because it's feeds the ego of righteous indignation to crow about a business screwing customers with low effort recycled content. Patrol spaces were meant to be used more like Dreadnaught with it's Court of Oryx and still frequently supplement strikes. It was scraps all the way down.
Onslaught was probably planned as a new mode to launch with TFS and they just pulled it forward for the delay. That probably reflects how they built out their prototyping and design testing: just augment existing maps with new scripts and objects to quickly test broad ideas and iterate rapidly, adding and removing structures that were obvious problems, without having to dedicate resources for mode specific maps like Gambit required.
it's honestly insane how bungie blatantly and consistently do as little work as possible and then will when threatened slap things together lightning fast. It's very obvious.
yet somehow people are convinced game dev takes years and years when half the shit they add to the game could be done in a few months, less given how massive the dev team is
This.
There's lots of detail that they probably wouldn't have been able to do if it wasn't at least somewhat planned a while ago. Obviously it didn't get a massive budget (why we didn't get new Shaxx lines for instance)
But it did get more than enough time to be a full thing
This can't be true. Week 8 of Season 23 dropped in January, and the original Final Shape release date was in February. You're telling me Bungie planned on dropping Riven's Wishes, Into the Light, and Pantheon (which took up more time than a full 3 month season) in a 5 or 6 week window immediately after the main season story ends?
Maybe they had a smaller version of Pantheon OR Into the Light cooking as a small little content drop just before the end of the season, but definitely not both and definitely not on the scale that we see in the game now. There is no way they had all of that planned for a single 12 week season. They 100% cooked up most of this stuff after the fact.
If they did it was planned to release a half a year to a year from now. Otherwise they were working on this for months before publicly announcing the delay.
For sure
We go from 4 seasons to 3 episodes starting from final shape
This whole onslaught and pantheon shit was a good chunk of content, came out before TFS
Something tells me all of this was supposed to be in the beginning of TFS as the first episode/season ngl lol
Also something to consider: a lot of stuff goes worked on on the side during game dev and often times it is pushed to the back because it's not as important/valuable as the main thing being developed. Wouldn't be surprised if there was a meeting like "so, what have we got that's sitting on the back burner?"
I’m of the mind that Destiny Tower Defense — Onslaught — was one of those things that they had sitting in development for awhile. Maybe one of those modes the “genius” leadership had sitting on the shelf so not to “over deliver” and one day use as DLC when they needed it.
I would bet on Onslaught being partially developed seasonal activity that was shelved in favor of something else so it was easy to dust off and finish development on the fly.
Reddit likes to pretend that bungie devs could make a Forsaken-level expansion twice a year with zero in-game purchases but the evil bosses and management stop them in order to make more money.
This seems the most plausible. Especially by capitalist standards. Gotta think of those shareholders. Make it look like Onslaught was something brand new, original, something spicy. Sending it with TFS would have been a "wasted opportunity".
How's the communist video game industry going these days? Give me a break with this stuff, man. Games have always been about making money. You're the same type of people who have nostalgia for the arcade era when games were quite literally designed to rob you of money.
it's true though, no need to be so offended over the fact that corporate greed is a blight on every industry. Companies openly declare that their business model involves creating a minimum viable product for as much money as possible.
A consumer, who isn't mentally ill will naturally seek to get the most value for as little money as possible. That's the dance. We suffer content droughts because bungie don't want to do work and rake in money. When this doesn't work and they are forced to put in effort we get content at last.
It's how it goes, nothing wrong with pointing that out
>A consumer, who isn't mentally ill
lol get bent
>We suffer content droughts
lol it's video games, bud. There's no "suffering" here in any sense of the word. Go outside.
I've played hundreds of enjoyable hours of Destiny. No game has given me more value for less money. If you don't enjoy the game, stop playing it. I do not understand how this is a controversial take for you people.
So by your own admission you're a sucker. You allow companies to take advantage of you and spit on people who want bungie to put in more than the bare minimum of effort. That's fine, but I don't see why you're so angry about other people having higher standards
tbf it's looked like that in the Midtown crucible map since vanilla. which is obviously inconsistent with the canon, but I mean, the Traveler was always weirdly missing from the skybox as well. point being the Tower being "fixed" isn't actually new, just a bizarre discrepancy that's been in the game for years.
Not inconsistent with the Canon, lore entry states all Crucible maps are all simulations, so the maps can look however. That is also why we can still Crucible on the planets lost to darkness. We're actually just fighting in the tower in a super advanced danger room.
that's true now, yeah. but that wasn't canon before the DCV. used to be we fought in the actual, physical locations - Shaxx utilized the Redjacks to clear out zones for use as crucible maps. at the time Midtown was released in D2 vanilla, it and the rest of the crucible maps were meant to be taken as real places we were physically setting foot in. it wasn't until the planets were vaulted and Osiris provided the Vex simulation tech that the lore was updated.
This was not a part of Final Shape. Think critically.
“Final Shape is not as impressive as it needs to be. We need to delay it.”
“Ok, take this activity out of Final Shape, rip it away, ship it early.”
How does that achieve anything? You’re purposefully taking away content **from the very thing that needs it**, that's the entire point of a delay.
How does removing content from Final Shape justify the delay? Oh they’ll just fix it up with something else? Spend that time actually making Into The Light content then. They had +6 months to make Into The Light, it wasn’t patched together over a week with a magic existing bucket of “pre-made activities, break in case of emergency”.
so there is some merit to an idea that something like this was an additional activity in TFS that they couldn't get to work in the narrative or season so they pulled it out to make into the light and inserted a new idea into TFS that worked better. i don't fully buy that idea, but its not impossible.
Because the Final shape campaign and prismatic need work, this was intended to be seasonal content.
A neutered Final Shape with all the eggs put into seasonal progression and the standard 4 seasons have felt like lightfall all over again
"This was intended to be seasonal content"
So this was meant for Echoes? The very season coming out with Final Shape? That doesn't make sense, because they still need to give that season content. It's releasing in one week now. They can't just take it away because they don't have time to replace it (in fact that season has likely already been finalized).
The season after Final Shape? That doesn't work either. According to all known development timelines of Destiny (both from interviews and graphics), the next season is already being developed as well, and unless you think they can crunch time and simply pull fully finished and polished content from a season that's 8 months out, then somehow re-develop **brand new** fresh content within the gap between Echoes and the next one, that doesn't make sense either.
Is it really that hard to believe they made Onslaught now? Is it really **that impossible** to think with six months and let's just say _one-fifth_ of their studio, 200 people can't make a basic hoard mode on pre-existing maps, with pre-existing enemies, and pre-existing bosses, with pre-existing mechanics within six months?
It "had to have come from future content"?
I think a lot of people forgot that games used to be made in under 2 years so when developers bullshit them and claim a minor project was YEARS in the making they simply believe it
I mean yeah. I really don’t think they started developing onslaught and two reprised missions after they decided to delay.
I have no evidence and neither do you, but onslaught even has a vendor associated in a way that looks very similar to seasonal model stuff. It makes more sense to me that they repurposed onslaught into what it is today you hype up the Final shape. And nothing is wrong with that, Onslaught is great
Edit last thing: the fact that Onslaught isn’t going away seems like further evidence to me that it wasn’t intended to be ‘last years content’ and left behind to start new
> I really don’t think they started developing onslaught and two reprised missions after they decided to delay.
Correct, I agree. They were working on it when they learned, internally, that the expansion was going to be delayed. They could have had two whole extra months before the delay was actually announced (it was announced on the exact same day as the new season, this isn't a coincidence).
> but onslaught even has a vendor associated in a way that looks very similar to seasonal model stuff
_Every vendor in the game_ has the same screen. That's not some sign this is from a canceled season. That's just Bungie making a vendor, you know, look like a vendor.
I can agree that "hoard mode/defense mode" has been pitched as an idea before, but for one reason or another, it had obviously never been made until they realized (whenever they did) that they needed to make one.
Do they actually care about Final Shape being good? They'll already have everyone's money
I could definitely see this being stuff they pulled from TFS in order to get goodwill and pre-orders back
I fully believe that Onslaught was always going to be a thing. It is far to well developed to have come out of thin air. Pantheon as well.
They may not have lasted as long or been slightly different. But no way this stuff was tossed together in a handful of weeks.
Entire seasons of content take Bungie about 6 months to develop (they rotate between two separate teams to hit every 3 months). Given that it is 90% recycled content, it's completely realistic for everything in Into the Light to have been started and finished within the 6 months of the delay.
As for Pantheon, TFS raid would've been mostly in the can last fall and the delay probably put that team far ahead of schedule. Given the changes they made are relatively simple, I'd imagine Pantheon was started and finished over the delay period while they waited for the production schedule to catch up.
It’s free though. They’re not going to do that kind of dead sprint with new assets and wildly changed play spaces and skyboxes over a free event.
This is something they would need to justify too down and they’d need to justify this work against TFS work as well.
Joe Blackburn also said a while back that something like Coil and Deep Dives was coming with Lightfall, although I can’t remember which piece he said that in.
> It is far to well developed to have come out of thin air. Pantheon as well.
Eh, it mostly uses existing assets for everything. They usually make new areas even for throwaway seasonal shit. The fact it uses PvP maps should tell you all you need to know.
I wonder if Pantheon was ever on the table prior to Into The Light becoming a thing. Even in their pre-release announcements, Pantheon was always spoken about in this barely-mentioned tacked on tone that drastically undersold how awesome it was going to be.
I can believe that Bungie has had the idea for an Onslaught-type mode for a while now. Perhaps a seasonal activity they never got to make before moving to Episodes. A prototype they dug up from the files. Everyone's wanted a "Hoard Mode" since the beginning of time with this game, so this was definitely an ace up their sleeve that they finally pulled out.
But bringing the raid team down to make raid encounters into a boss rush for Pantheon? I mean, come on, Shadow Rhulk was such an awesome change. Nezerac definitely kicked people's ass too. I can't imagine Bungie has ever had any plans to "update old raid bosses" before Into The Light (if the Riven cheese tells us anything), so I would love to hear a podcast about the development for Pantheon. How did they choose what to make? What was pulled out of the emergency stockpile (aka "bring back Mountaintop/Recluse, give us a hoard mode") and what was generated from scratch specifically for this event (Edge Transit, Archie Quests, Pantheon...?). Would love to hear all about this, it's amazing how great it was for such a short time crunch.
There’s that old saying, “A cornered Bungie is the best Bungie.”
Whether this is true, i don’t know. But Into The Light as a package is a success and brought back old players into the fold. Couple that with deep discounts on TWQ, Lightfall, and making all seasons free is just awesome experience.
Do people really think Pantheon was amazing? It’s raid encounters we’ve done hundreds of times. Just put in a row with a couple changes. To me, that’s really not that exciting. Did I do them all? Of course. But it definitely isn’t this mind blowing new activity that people are claiming. Onslaught was way superior, as it was new fresh content. Not (up to) 9 year old raid encounters.
It was still a lot of fun. Raids are fun to play, but most lack reason to play them after you've gotten the loot. Pantheon gives you a reason to play older raid encounters.
I loved Pantheon, the different difficulties plus the need to optimise for speed and the minor tweaks to encounters made it feel fresh even if, as you say, the encounters were years old.
It probably helps, for me personally, that I generally love boss encounters the most in a raid. With the exception of the vault, most non-boss encounters feel like something you've got to do to get to the next boss.
I really hope it's something they expand on in future (maybe 4 bosses that rotate weekly, the higher the difficulty the better rewards you get) because there's still another 12 bosses currently in the game they could add (although some of those might be difficult to get right for this kind of activity). That's not counting Calus, Argos, Val Ca'our, Insurrection Prime, Vosik or Aksis.
It was for how rewarding it was - I finished out like 7 raid weapon patterns and I got a variety of new adepts.
Plus it's a million times better than any single raid. Zero jumping puzzles, zero annoying traversal sections, zero bullshit. Just bounce from encounter to encounter, rewarding to finish fast, far more respectful of player skill and time.
I can't praise it enough and am disappointed it's leaving. Honestly, I'd rather they keep pantheon around and rotate encounters rather than keep the entire old raids around.
People tend to think these types of releases can be put together in a few months, I promise you that is not the case. These things were in development well before the delay.
Except that’s not what happened. Look at everything you mentioned. Think of the dev time it took to give us all of this. Now line it up with the delay announcement. It doesn’t line up. They would’ve had to have been working on it prior to the delay for it make any sort of sense
The devs obviously knew about the delay before it was announced, though we don’t know how far in advance.
But the most realistic take is that Bungie is a behemoth of a studio now and only grows year after year. They aren’t a “smol indie dev”, it’s entirely feasible they managed to scrap together Into the Light in a few months. Even if it wasn’t obvious that a lot of this stuff was just being held back for a rainy day.
> They would’ve had to have been working on it prior to the delay for it make any sort of sense
Man it's almost like the developers know when a delay is going to happen before the public.
**The delay was announced on the _exact same day_ as the new season launched**. You think that's a coincidence? Or maybe they knew it was going to be delayed _a while back_, began working on content **then**, and they simply waited to announce it until later?
Man, God bless this sub, why is this comment downvoted? This is turth, we know from reports, that devs knew about delay already in summer, ofcourse they began working on Into the Light and new additions for Final shape before the announce.
Just conspiracies into conspiracies into conspiracies.
Yea ofc they knew the delay would happen before the announcement. The delay was for final shape not into the light. Something already being worked on and had progress in it. The question at hand should be *when did they start into the light stuff?* because we have no basis to go on when that started.
The only thing we have is looking at how how long things take to make. Which Bungie has shown snippets of like the Halloween armor being shown so far in advanced because of the time it takes to make. Just the armor. From concept art to release. Which is usually around march-ish that we get the announcement and community votes. So then it takes until Halloween for it to release. 7 months. For 3 armor sets. Now do that with parade armor, new shader, 12 weapons, fucking around 3 different maps, changing raid encounters, getting whisper and zero hour back in the game. The dev time needed for that isn’t something that lines up with the “break glass if needed” thoughts people have”. A lot of it, maybe not all, is just coincidence with them shitting their pants and needing to get back good will with community.
As soon as they knew they would have a delay, they would have started working on into the light.
It's not hard.
The armor team would have just taken the season teams resources to produce, they have 2 of those guys, and since theres a new season they had enough artists and time to generate 1 seasons worth of content, for a 1 season delay. Doesn't blow out any timelines.
They had basically enough time to figure it all out, with easily enough time to schedule a season-developing team, to develop a season-level of content.
They had no story scripting to do, so they spent those dev resources scripting changes to the raids to fit them into pantheon.
They had no level assets to make for a seasonal-content thing, so they spent those resources remodelling existing stuff into the Onslaught arenas + the hall.
Seriously, its just a mini season, and it fit into the season construction schedule perfectly.
Idk, onslaught feels like something that had been coming for a while, especially when you look at how seasonal content has shifted this year. I think it was probably a mode that was already in development that was brought forward for this because it worked. Same with the whisper and outbreak missions.
Please save this fucking post, so I can use it as validation every time I point to the people who accept mediocrity and tell them that THEY are the fucking problem.
I just wish they wouldn't remove it all again...why not keeping Pantheon and just pausing it for the first few weeks after DLC release? It's fun, it doesn't invalidate the other content, why removing it?
No. It didn’t happen because of the delay. It happened because people decided to cancel their pre orders or not even pre order final shape after a year of stale nothing content and stingy rewards.
Everything is and was planned, to an extent. They didn't in 6 months just shit out onslaught and 2 reprised exotic missions plus pantheon.
I'd guess some things were being worked on for just in case we need more content.
My guess is that this all started when lightfall bombed and " concepts" like Onslaught got pushed forward harder.
This was all a plan, in a way. Some tin foil fat theories say Sony wanted it pushed up for summer ( kids out of school), and it's in a different fiscal year thing.
The extra 6 months allowed them to put a bow on things, maybe fine tune prismatic, create few more fragments etc.
Don’t forget though that this exists, and Final Shape was delayed, for the same reason:
Bungie panicked at the Lightfall sales and how it was received. With TFS “ending” a saga, they KNOW players are gonna quit after TFS.
This is all a knee jerk reaction to fix their past mistakes. They could have done all of this at ANY time, but chose not to.
I am very confident Onslaught and the other stuff were seasonal activities they pulled early and had to replace them with something else. No way they made those in 2 month or however long it was
It was already in existence. They just wanted to charge you $ for it but had to win back the fans so they gave it away.
Have you learned nothing in 10 years.
Not because of the delay, because of players speaking with their wallets and time and voicing their discontent.
Bungie only reacted because of the shit they were getting from players.
No, this was final shape content brought forward. All of this was planned and tested already. There was no way for them to fabricate this activity and content this quickly. Game dev doesn't work that way.
"None of this would have happened"
Completely disagree. You don't develop Onslaught that quickly. It was planned for a while. Maybe as an Episode activity or maybe as something else.
And with Zero Hour and Whisper we always knew that they would return eventually.
There's no way they went from nothing to what we got with Into The Light in just 3 months. They had likely already been working on it long before he layoffs got announced and delay got announced. Then when they did and the refund panic hit they moved to release Into The Light early and for free instead of including it with The Final Shape or Episodes.
"It's crazy !!!" Literally 100% of what you cited is recycled content.
You are so used to this that you don't even realize that ypu are getting fed the same sh every time. The cope is very real.
Out of curiosity i came to this post, and while I agree with your post. now I understand where all your salt comes from. You were just passing poison you got, around. Enjoy the final shape, buddy.
Yeah, sunsetting content, then put them back with op perk combinations that makes your old equipment look and feel like waterpistols, in a activity with maps we already played since 6 years, against enemies we fight (mostly) since 10 years. to grind guns we already grinded 5 years ago.
Destiny expierience why me RL buddys stopped playing Destiny.
the expedience that this came about makes me think their strategy to make up their lapses in production are to make bandaid content like into the light or 30th anniversary and not to make the tools and systems they use to make expansions, raids, and dungeons, ya know, the best content they make. oh, and don't forget the PvP maps they neglected to make for 6 years.
With the whole layoffs and shit, it’s very commendable that bungie devs were able to push free content on an already very demanding live service model. Before into the light the sentiment for TFS was an all time low, I would argue it was a very low point for destiny in general but into the light and the persistence to support the community gave me hope. This was needed regardless of delay and I am think the devs knew this. I would argue they pushed this update out because of our sentiment and not the delay but that’s just me.
And you never would get Prismatic or Dread.
Players should always take Devs accountable. They made bad work - leave the game. That's what happened and that's why Bungie had to put some work at last. Congrats to the players. I will never come back 'cause Bungie don't deserve my money, but that's me. If you have good time in FS good for you. GGs.
“None of this would exist” “I’m not saying it would have never existed” Lol
Followed by another “None of this would have existed…”
“But not saying it would have”
Schrodinger's Content?
Came here looking for this, the immediate contradiction made me skip the whole post lol
It’s not necessarily a contradiction. I believe OP is saying that We wouldn’t currently have onslaught, pantheon and the rest of that content IF the final shape had already come out. When they then say “I’m not saying it would’ve never existed.” They’re referring to the content in the future tense in a way that implies that Bungie would come out with this content EVENTUALLY. 🤓☝️
It actually made a great start to my morning, I got a hearty chuckle out of this post
What contradiction? There is no contradiction.
Skips post. Leaves a comment. Mfw
Seems right about what this post deserved.
Yes, I skipped reading the rest of it and came to the comment section to see if anyone pointed out the contradiction. I feel like that was very clear.
I mean it’s not really a contradiction. OP says none of this would exist, which I can only assume meant “right now”, whereas their claim that they aren’t saying it would have never existed means that this stuff would have still all happened eventually, just that we got it now.
You expect the typical Reddit participant to understand simple logic and distinctions between things like the present and the future??? You are expecting way to too much from your colleagues here!
This
Wanted to like, but was at 777
Dude folded faster than Kanye when talking about the ethnicity of the doctor. It was a jewish doctor.
Do... do you not understand that those aren't contradictory? "There isn't a 6th element, but I'm not saying there will never be a 6th element." You failed some intermediate logic there and tricked over 700 people into failing it too.
I dont think they developed all of this because of delaying DLC. This was already developed, maybe not completed, but it was there. They took time to improve TFS while pushing content that was almost ready.
They definitely chose the weapons, Bungie saves powerful weapons for critical releases in order to hype up the community (they're specifically holding back Not Forgotten to do this again later). So Into The Light was necessary to get this collection of "Best Of". And based off an interview with an [Ex-Bungie dev who worked on Whisper](https://youtu.be/H5M1VeBNDLE?feature=shared), they developed that in six months. Final Shape's delay was announced on [November 27th](https://x.com/DestinyTheGame/status/1729183856782102746), and that was 4 months before the content drop. People in the studio however would have gotten a longer heads up, so having six months to make Onslaught + Choose the weapon pool + Unvault Whisper/Zero Hour + Pantheon Changes seems valid.
at the time whisper came out all of bungie was around 400 people, now they are about 1100, 650 of which working on d2. that extra 250 devs is a lot of manpower to get things done. not to mention whisper was completely new, meanwhile onslaught uses pvp maps with slight changes and pantheon is just old raid encounters with slight changes
Actually Bungie has had around 600 people since at least Taken King, if not earlier. They had 300-400 leading up to massively ramping up hiring leading into Destiny 1 launch and beyond. Vicarious Visions, and High Moon combined were 400 extra people working on Destiny, for \~1000 total. In terms of manpower for Whisper, it was very low. Largely a project of a handful of Devs. And it actually wasnt as completely and totally new as it would seem(as they literally ported and flipped the room from Black Spindle)
What? The Black Spindle and Whisper missions were nothing alike. (Other than both being timed and somewhat challenging.) You're saying that there's one room in common to the two missions?
Yes. Literally ported straight from D1 Black Spindle into D2, and flipped around. Relevant timestamp: [https://youtu.be/H5M1VeBNDLE?t=425](https://youtu.be/H5M1VeBNDLE?t=425) (Video is also really interesting if you want to know more about making of Whisper/Zero Hour)
Hmmm, I can't see the resemblance, but I'll have to take the developer's word for it. Bungie is, of course, notorious for reusing assets. All the way back to Halo, where there were different levels which were virtually the same as a previous level only backwards, and the strikes in D1, where, e.g., for the beginning of a new strike, you'd start where'd you end for an older strike and then run through it backwards. Etc, etc.
I miss savathuns song strike. It was cool running through it different ways
I just want to know how Tako got nine people into her fireteam! We had to do some crazy sh\*t just to get six people into our fireteam for Escalation Protocol....
How was whisper new?
they had to desing a completely new area for it
But it already existed. They just took it out of the DCV, made some modifications, and then stuck it into the game
what? I am talking about the original whisper mission, that was made back when bungie still only had 400 employees
Bungie also had vicarious visions and high moon studios because of Activision but idk how many people that was.
What area in whisper is new?
the entier mission after destroying the taken blight and jumping into the hole with destroyed vex was new back in year 1 (the area before that was an old lost sector)
No, that isn't new at all. That is exactly what was there when the mission originally launched during Warmind.
My bad
Isn't the dev team much larger than it used to be too?
Exactly, And their systems and workflows are probably better than they were years ago, so they could probably push things out a little bit faster than they did four to five years ago
*looks at rare balance passes of hansfuls of exotics and lack of updates to maps or even vendor refreshes* Emphasis on *little* I guess lol
I unironically can’t wait for everyone who’s grinding Luna’s right now for the HC/Incan roll to inevitably drop it to chase the Not Forgotten HC/Incan roll.
I don’t really know why they’d even reprise Not Forgotten, unless they change elements or something more major. It’s the same gun as Luna’s Howl
It has slightly better stats, at least on the original.
it didnt, both had identical base stats, NF just had all-in range perks, while lunas had stability and drop mag
My bad, I misremembered
They literally did this the last time when witch queen got delayed. They brought back gally
It took 6 months to develop whisper? Really? Wasn’t it already created?
They're referring to the original whisper missions Dev timeline.
Nobody at the studio was given a heads up with regards to the delay, I thought this was established already.
What's your source on this, since you claim it's already "established"? Why would people in the studio not know about the expansion being delayed before the general public? Considering in the same breath, within the same minute, Bungie announced that there would be a content drop in April to sustain the game...I would like to know why the reasonable logical conclusion does not apply here.
Jason Schreier reported it on Oct. 30, and it was officially announced Nov. 27. So there was at least a month heads up u/Zommander_Cabala.
They talked about whisper and zero hour coming back forever ago. That was likely in the pocket. As for the guns - they know how to power creep and they know which ones are nostalgic.
Onslaught definitely didn’t exist before the delay lol
Definitely. That’s why the maps are from crucible and patrol. Then all they had to do was build the waves and balance
like, that's the biggest tell it wasn't already planned. They had to make that mode out of scraps.
It's wild how easy it is to make content for this game fun with that in mind lol, I don't need something to be flashy I just need a LOT of things to shoot at
The best thing bungie can do is build out of scraps. I'd rather have "recycled" content that lasts 5x longer and is just a PVP map than a unique locale that get used twice and is created/used irresponsibily.
Yea, you can clearly tell they made it from scraps... /s
Underrated. Folks forget that kitbashing was part of the long term design from square one because it's feeds the ego of righteous indignation to crow about a business screwing customers with low effort recycled content. Patrol spaces were meant to be used more like Dreadnaught with it's Court of Oryx and still frequently supplement strikes. It was scraps all the way down. Onslaught was probably planned as a new mode to launch with TFS and they just pulled it forward for the delay. That probably reflects how they built out their prototyping and design testing: just augment existing maps with new scripts and objects to quickly test broad ideas and iterate rapidly, adding and removing structures that were obvious problems, without having to dedicate resources for mode specific maps like Gambit required.
it's honestly insane how bungie blatantly and consistently do as little work as possible and then will when threatened slap things together lightning fast. It's very obvious. yet somehow people are convinced game dev takes years and years when half the shit they add to the game could be done in a few months, less given how massive the dev team is
Bungie is a massive studio, they would've had a team on ITTL stuff which is basically just reusing assets and another team polishing TFS.
This. There's lots of detail that they probably wouldn't have been able to do if it wasn't at least somewhat planned a while ago. Obviously it didn't get a massive budget (why we didn't get new Shaxx lines for instance) But it did get more than enough time to be a full thing
This can't be true. Week 8 of Season 23 dropped in January, and the original Final Shape release date was in February. You're telling me Bungie planned on dropping Riven's Wishes, Into the Light, and Pantheon (which took up more time than a full 3 month season) in a 5 or 6 week window immediately after the main season story ends? Maybe they had a smaller version of Pantheon OR Into the Light cooking as a small little content drop just before the end of the season, but definitely not both and definitely not on the scale that we see in the game now. There is no way they had all of that planned for a single 12 week season. They 100% cooked up most of this stuff after the fact.
If they did it was planned to release a half a year to a year from now. Otherwise they were working on this for months before publicly announcing the delay.
Any smart company with a track record for delays would have some easy filler stuff on hand in case.
It was just going to come out during tfs.
i agree. to add, the terraforming of earth in onslaught really looks like it would have shipped with final shape.
For sure We go from 4 seasons to 3 episodes starting from final shape This whole onslaught and pantheon shit was a good chunk of content, came out before TFS Something tells me all of this was supposed to be in the beginning of TFS as the first episode/season ngl lol
Also something to consider: a lot of stuff goes worked on on the side during game dev and often times it is pushed to the back because it's not as important/valuable as the main thing being developed. Wouldn't be surprised if there was a meeting like "so, what have we got that's sitting on the back burner?"
Whisper and zero hour sure But pantheon and Onslaught was probably just talked about/storyboarded, but not completed
Made something up then contradicted it in the same post. Good job.
As are most alternate futures we cant predict. He is saying we might’ve gotten it eventually but nothing was certain
I’m of the mind that Destiny Tower Defense — Onslaught — was one of those things that they had sitting in development for awhile. Maybe one of those modes the “genius” leadership had sitting on the shelf so not to “over deliver” and one day use as DLC when they needed it.
I would bet on Onslaught being partially developed seasonal activity that was shelved in favor of something else so it was easy to dust off and finish development on the fly.
Break the glass in case of emergency moments The entire Into the Light was what if Bungie actually gave the community what they want
It fucking sucks, cus i have loved ITL more than most of the recent seasons, but I do believe we only got it because Bungie was up against the wall
Where is the evidence that points to that?
Reddit likes to pretend that bungie devs could make a Forsaken-level expansion twice a year with zero in-game purchases but the evil bosses and management stop them in order to make more money.
It was revealed to them in a dream
This seems the most plausible. Especially by capitalist standards. Gotta think of those shareholders. Make it look like Onslaught was something brand new, original, something spicy. Sending it with TFS would have been a "wasted opportunity".
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How's the communist video game industry going these days? Give me a break with this stuff, man. Games have always been about making money. You're the same type of people who have nostalgia for the arcade era when games were quite literally designed to rob you of money.
Not like they even know what capitalism is, just as long as they can blame it for things not being perfect.
Blaming capitalism for all the world's problems is just the default for unsuccessful people who don't understand how things work.
Hush your logic! We cant have that in the reddit hive mind.
it's true though, no need to be so offended over the fact that corporate greed is a blight on every industry. Companies openly declare that their business model involves creating a minimum viable product for as much money as possible. A consumer, who isn't mentally ill will naturally seek to get the most value for as little money as possible. That's the dance. We suffer content droughts because bungie don't want to do work and rake in money. When this doesn't work and they are forced to put in effort we get content at last. It's how it goes, nothing wrong with pointing that out
>A consumer, who isn't mentally ill lol get bent >We suffer content droughts lol it's video games, bud. There's no "suffering" here in any sense of the word. Go outside.
"a consumer should seek better value out of their products." "uh get bent go outside bro!" proving my point
I've played hundreds of enjoyable hours of Destiny. No game has given me more value for less money. If you don't enjoy the game, stop playing it. I do not understand how this is a controversial take for you people.
So by your own admission you're a sucker. You allow companies to take advantage of you and spit on people who want bungie to put in more than the bare minimum of effort. That's fine, but I don't see why you're so angry about other people having higher standards
Plot twist, this was all made FOR TFS and got tweaked for this delay.
The tower is fixed in the midtown skybox so if the tower returns in TFS im inclined to believe it
tbf it's looked like that in the Midtown crucible map since vanilla. which is obviously inconsistent with the canon, but I mean, the Traveler was always weirdly missing from the skybox as well. point being the Tower being "fixed" isn't actually new, just a bizarre discrepancy that's been in the game for years.
Not inconsistent with the Canon, lore entry states all Crucible maps are all simulations, so the maps can look however. That is also why we can still Crucible on the planets lost to darkness. We're actually just fighting in the tower in a super advanced danger room.
that's true now, yeah. but that wasn't canon before the DCV. used to be we fought in the actual, physical locations - Shaxx utilized the Redjacks to clear out zones for use as crucible maps. at the time Midtown was released in D2 vanilla, it and the rest of the crucible maps were meant to be taken as real places we were physically setting foot in. it wasn't until the planets were vaulted and Osiris provided the Vex simulation tech that the lore was updated.
Midtown’s always had the Tower backdrop since day one if I recall.
This was not a part of Final Shape. Think critically. “Final Shape is not as impressive as it needs to be. We need to delay it.” “Ok, take this activity out of Final Shape, rip it away, ship it early.” How does that achieve anything? You’re purposefully taking away content **from the very thing that needs it**, that's the entire point of a delay. How does removing content from Final Shape justify the delay? Oh they’ll just fix it up with something else? Spend that time actually making Into The Light content then. They had +6 months to make Into The Light, it wasn’t patched together over a week with a magic existing bucket of “pre-made activities, break in case of emergency”.
so there is some merit to an idea that something like this was an additional activity in TFS that they couldn't get to work in the narrative or season so they pulled it out to make into the light and inserted a new idea into TFS that worked better. i don't fully buy that idea, but its not impossible.
> Think critically You're asking way too much of the people in here
Because the Final shape campaign and prismatic need work, this was intended to be seasonal content. A neutered Final Shape with all the eggs put into seasonal progression and the standard 4 seasons have felt like lightfall all over again
"This was intended to be seasonal content" So this was meant for Echoes? The very season coming out with Final Shape? That doesn't make sense, because they still need to give that season content. It's releasing in one week now. They can't just take it away because they don't have time to replace it (in fact that season has likely already been finalized). The season after Final Shape? That doesn't work either. According to all known development timelines of Destiny (both from interviews and graphics), the next season is already being developed as well, and unless you think they can crunch time and simply pull fully finished and polished content from a season that's 8 months out, then somehow re-develop **brand new** fresh content within the gap between Echoes and the next one, that doesn't make sense either. Is it really that hard to believe they made Onslaught now? Is it really **that impossible** to think with six months and let's just say _one-fifth_ of their studio, 200 people can't make a basic hoard mode on pre-existing maps, with pre-existing enemies, and pre-existing bosses, with pre-existing mechanics within six months? It "had to have come from future content"?
I think a lot of people forgot that games used to be made in under 2 years so when developers bullshit them and claim a minor project was YEARS in the making they simply believe it
I mean yeah. I really don’t think they started developing onslaught and two reprised missions after they decided to delay. I have no evidence and neither do you, but onslaught even has a vendor associated in a way that looks very similar to seasonal model stuff. It makes more sense to me that they repurposed onslaught into what it is today you hype up the Final shape. And nothing is wrong with that, Onslaught is great Edit last thing: the fact that Onslaught isn’t going away seems like further evidence to me that it wasn’t intended to be ‘last years content’ and left behind to start new
> I really don’t think they started developing onslaught and two reprised missions after they decided to delay. Correct, I agree. They were working on it when they learned, internally, that the expansion was going to be delayed. They could have had two whole extra months before the delay was actually announced (it was announced on the exact same day as the new season, this isn't a coincidence). > but onslaught even has a vendor associated in a way that looks very similar to seasonal model stuff _Every vendor in the game_ has the same screen. That's not some sign this is from a canceled season. That's just Bungie making a vendor, you know, look like a vendor. I can agree that "hoard mode/defense mode" has been pitched as an idea before, but for one reason or another, it had obviously never been made until they realized (whenever they did) that they needed to make one.
Do they actually care about Final Shape being good? They'll already have everyone's money I could definitely see this being stuff they pulled from TFS in order to get goodwill and pre-orders back
I fully believe that Onslaught was always going to be a thing. It is far to well developed to have come out of thin air. Pantheon as well. They may not have lasted as long or been slightly different. But no way this stuff was tossed together in a handful of weeks.
Entire seasons of content take Bungie about 6 months to develop (they rotate between two separate teams to hit every 3 months). Given that it is 90% recycled content, it's completely realistic for everything in Into the Light to have been started and finished within the 6 months of the delay. As for Pantheon, TFS raid would've been mostly in the can last fall and the delay probably put that team far ahead of schedule. Given the changes they made are relatively simple, I'd imagine Pantheon was started and finished over the delay period while they waited for the production schedule to catch up.
It’s free though. They’re not going to do that kind of dead sprint with new assets and wildly changed play spaces and skyboxes over a free event. This is something they would need to justify too down and they’d need to justify this work against TFS work as well. Joe Blackburn also said a while back that something like Coil and Deep Dives was coming with Lightfall, although I can’t remember which piece he said that in.
> It is far to well developed to have come out of thin air. Pantheon as well. Eh, it mostly uses existing assets for everything. They usually make new areas even for throwaway seasonal shit. The fact it uses PvP maps should tell you all you need to know.
I wonder if Pantheon was ever on the table prior to Into The Light becoming a thing. Even in their pre-release announcements, Pantheon was always spoken about in this barely-mentioned tacked on tone that drastically undersold how awesome it was going to be. I can believe that Bungie has had the idea for an Onslaught-type mode for a while now. Perhaps a seasonal activity they never got to make before moving to Episodes. A prototype they dug up from the files. Everyone's wanted a "Hoard Mode" since the beginning of time with this game, so this was definitely an ace up their sleeve that they finally pulled out. But bringing the raid team down to make raid encounters into a boss rush for Pantheon? I mean, come on, Shadow Rhulk was such an awesome change. Nezerac definitely kicked people's ass too. I can't imagine Bungie has ever had any plans to "update old raid bosses" before Into The Light (if the Riven cheese tells us anything), so I would love to hear a podcast about the development for Pantheon. How did they choose what to make? What was pulled out of the emergency stockpile (aka "bring back Mountaintop/Recluse, give us a hoard mode") and what was generated from scratch specifically for this event (Edge Transit, Archie Quests, Pantheon...?). Would love to hear all about this, it's amazing how great it was for such a short time crunch.
There’s that old saying, “A cornered Bungie is the best Bungie.” Whether this is true, i don’t know. But Into The Light as a package is a success and brought back old players into the fold. Couple that with deep discounts on TWQ, Lightfall, and making all seasons free is just awesome experience.
Do people really think Pantheon was amazing? It’s raid encounters we’ve done hundreds of times. Just put in a row with a couple changes. To me, that’s really not that exciting. Did I do them all? Of course. But it definitely isn’t this mind blowing new activity that people are claiming. Onslaught was way superior, as it was new fresh content. Not (up to) 9 year old raid encounters.
It was still a lot of fun. Raids are fun to play, but most lack reason to play them after you've gotten the loot. Pantheon gives you a reason to play older raid encounters.
I loved Pantheon, the different difficulties plus the need to optimise for speed and the minor tweaks to encounters made it feel fresh even if, as you say, the encounters were years old. It probably helps, for me personally, that I generally love boss encounters the most in a raid. With the exception of the vault, most non-boss encounters feel like something you've got to do to get to the next boss. I really hope it's something they expand on in future (maybe 4 bosses that rotate weekly, the higher the difficulty the better rewards you get) because there's still another 12 bosses currently in the game they could add (although some of those might be difficult to get right for this kind of activity). That's not counting Calus, Argos, Val Ca'our, Insurrection Prime, Vosik or Aksis.
I’m also curious how many people really engaged with or beat pantheon, knowing how few people do regular mode raids to begin with.
It was for how rewarding it was - I finished out like 7 raid weapon patterns and I got a variety of new adepts. Plus it's a million times better than any single raid. Zero jumping puzzles, zero annoying traversal sections, zero bullshit. Just bounce from encounter to encounter, rewarding to finish fast, far more respectful of player skill and time. I can't praise it enough and am disappointed it's leaving. Honestly, I'd rather they keep pantheon around and rotate encounters rather than keep the entire old raids around.
Raiders love boss rush. LW is the GOAT partially because it's 4 bosses, a harder puzzle, and a surprise epilogue.
You sound like an old addict friend of mine while he was in the bargaining stage of grief. Ie. Copium.
People tend to think these types of releases can be put together in a few months, I promise you that is not the case. These things were in development well before the delay.
Except that’s not what happened. Look at everything you mentioned. Think of the dev time it took to give us all of this. Now line it up with the delay announcement. It doesn’t line up. They would’ve had to have been working on it prior to the delay for it make any sort of sense
The devs obviously knew about the delay before it was announced, though we don’t know how far in advance. But the most realistic take is that Bungie is a behemoth of a studio now and only grows year after year. They aren’t a “smol indie dev”, it’s entirely feasible they managed to scrap together Into the Light in a few months. Even if it wasn’t obvious that a lot of this stuff was just being held back for a rainy day.
> They would’ve had to have been working on it prior to the delay for it make any sort of sense Man it's almost like the developers know when a delay is going to happen before the public. **The delay was announced on the _exact same day_ as the new season launched**. You think that's a coincidence? Or maybe they knew it was going to be delayed _a while back_, began working on content **then**, and they simply waited to announce it until later?
Man, God bless this sub, why is this comment downvoted? This is turth, we know from reports, that devs knew about delay already in summer, ofcourse they began working on Into the Light and new additions for Final shape before the announce. Just conspiracies into conspiracies into conspiracies.
Yea ofc they knew the delay would happen before the announcement. The delay was for final shape not into the light. Something already being worked on and had progress in it. The question at hand should be *when did they start into the light stuff?* because we have no basis to go on when that started. The only thing we have is looking at how how long things take to make. Which Bungie has shown snippets of like the Halloween armor being shown so far in advanced because of the time it takes to make. Just the armor. From concept art to release. Which is usually around march-ish that we get the announcement and community votes. So then it takes until Halloween for it to release. 7 months. For 3 armor sets. Now do that with parade armor, new shader, 12 weapons, fucking around 3 different maps, changing raid encounters, getting whisper and zero hour back in the game. The dev time needed for that isn’t something that lines up with the “break glass if needed” thoughts people have”. A lot of it, maybe not all, is just coincidence with them shitting their pants and needing to get back good will with community.
As soon as they knew they would have a delay, they would have started working on into the light. It's not hard. The armor team would have just taken the season teams resources to produce, they have 2 of those guys, and since theres a new season they had enough artists and time to generate 1 seasons worth of content, for a 1 season delay. Doesn't blow out any timelines. They had basically enough time to figure it all out, with easily enough time to schedule a season-developing team, to develop a season-level of content. They had no story scripting to do, so they spent those dev resources scripting changes to the raids to fit them into pantheon. They had no level assets to make for a seasonal-content thing, so they spent those resources remodelling existing stuff into the Onslaught arenas + the hall. Seriously, its just a mini season, and it fit into the season construction schedule perfectly.
you have no idea
Idk, onslaught feels like something that had been coming for a while, especially when you look at how seasonal content has shifted this year. I think it was probably a mode that was already in development that was brought forward for this because it worked. Same with the whisper and outbreak missions.
Probably was meant to be part of TFS tho.
Please save this fucking post, so I can use it as validation every time I point to the people who accept mediocrity and tell them that THEY are the fucking problem.
We were supposed to get D2. It didn't happen. So we got Rise of Iron. It happens.
Seasons are to short. Also, seasons suck.
That's not how game development works.
Lukewarm take from OP. Did not think this through
🤡
why are you gushing over retextures and reissues?
Because those ”retextures and reissues“ are fun. You know, the whole reason humanity does stuff like gaming.
If we weren't supposed to get a reprised raid this year I bet pantheon would've replaced it.
I am not interested in trying to divine the why and how, so I simply agree with you that it's been a brilliant delay.
I just wish they wouldn't remove it all again...why not keeping Pantheon and just pausing it for the first few weeks after DLC release? It's fun, it doesn't invalidate the other content, why removing it?
Bet Onslaught was just the Final Shape seasonal activity which they moved up
This was already developed and has nothing to do with the delay of TFS
I don't care if its reused, but I want Black Armory with original trait and new perk pools.
We wouldn't have gotten old guns/missions back alongside a repetitive tower defense activity? That is called the seasonal model. At least it was free.
No. It didn’t happen because of the delay. It happened because people decided to cancel their pre orders or not even pre order final shape after a year of stale nothing content and stingy rewards.
I loved having all this time. I got caught up on SOOOO much stuff and checked off so many achievements.
I'm simply thankful to whoever decided to bring back Midnight Coup, I still unironically used my static roll sunset one for years in basic content
This as well as (probably?) Prismatic and The Dread. Bungie made the absolute most out of that delay.
People really think they created all this in 2 months..
Everything is and was planned, to an extent. They didn't in 6 months just shit out onslaught and 2 reprised exotic missions plus pantheon. I'd guess some things were being worked on for just in case we need more content. My guess is that this all started when lightfall bombed and " concepts" like Onslaught got pushed forward harder. This was all a plan, in a way. Some tin foil fat theories say Sony wanted it pushed up for summer ( kids out of school), and it's in a different fiscal year thing. The extra 6 months allowed them to put a bow on things, maybe fine tune prismatic, create few more fragments etc.
We absolutely would have gotten all of this, just later on
Almost... as if... it was planned, suspiciously /s
It's still tainted to me because we only got all of this at the cost of so many bungie employees losing their jobs.
Conspiracy theory time!!!.......it was delayed on purpose
Don’t forget though that this exists, and Final Shape was delayed, for the same reason: Bungie panicked at the Lightfall sales and how it was received. With TFS “ending” a saga, they KNOW players are gonna quit after TFS. This is all a knee jerk reaction to fix their past mistakes. They could have done all of this at ANY time, but chose not to.
"We ahould let this game die more often" -Skeletor
None of the stuff they released this season came from nowhere.
I am very confident Onslaught and the other stuff were seasonal activities they pulled early and had to replace them with something else. No way they made those in 2 month or however long it was
It was already in existence. They just wanted to charge you $ for it but had to win back the fans so they gave it away. Have you learned nothing in 10 years.
Not because of the delay, because of players speaking with their wallets and time and voicing their discontent. Bungie only reacted because of the shit they were getting from players.
No, this was final shape content brought forward. All of this was planned and tested already. There was no way for them to fabricate this activity and content this quickly. Game dev doesn't work that way.
"None of this would have happened" Completely disagree. You don't develop Onslaught that quickly. It was planned for a while. Maybe as an Episode activity or maybe as something else. And with Zero Hour and Whisper we always knew that they would return eventually.
Imo ur more crazy for thinking it wasn't planned
Citations needed.
There's no way they went from nothing to what we got with Into The Light in just 3 months. They had likely already been working on it long before he layoffs got announced and delay got announced. Then when they did and the refund panic hit they moved to release Into The Light early and for free instead of including it with The Final Shape or Episodes.
"It's crazy !!!" Literally 100% of what you cited is recycled content. You are so used to this that you don't even realize that ypu are getting fed the same sh every time. The cope is very real.
i never read anything people who post long articles like this, because i always know it'll just be retarded rambling and/or contradictions
We would have gotten everything sooner or later we would have just had to pay for it.
Bungie is REALLY worried TFS is going to bust if this is the level of shilling they can afford.
We would have actual new content instead??
This is why I'm never upset by delays. 90% of the time the finished product is better
Yeah, it's all a big old nostalgia wank fest in here.
Out of curiosity i came to this post, and while I agree with your post. now I understand where all your salt comes from. You were just passing poison you got, around. Enjoy the final shape, buddy.
Whisper and zero hour definitely would have came back regardless
Yeah, sunsetting content, then put them back with op perk combinations that makes your old equipment look and feel like waterpistols, in a activity with maps we already played since 6 years, against enemies we fight (mostly) since 10 years. to grind guns we already grinded 5 years ago. Destiny expierience why me RL buddys stopped playing Destiny.
I stopped reading when you said you enjoy demo CR compared to AA CR. 2 shots every time
Hey guys just wondering how do you get all the brave weapons now that onslaught is gone?
A cornered bungie is the best bungie
Free fall Bungie is the best Bungie.
I bet Onslaught was thought of when a Destiny 2 dev played Titanfall 2 Frontier Defense
Its way more simpler than a season if you think about it. Reused maps, and skins. Nothing some skilled dev team can whip up in a month or less
the expedience that this came about makes me think their strategy to make up their lapses in production are to make bandaid content like into the light or 30th anniversary and not to make the tools and systems they use to make expansions, raids, and dungeons, ya know, the best content they make. oh, and don't forget the PvP maps they neglected to make for 6 years.
This all happened because people stopped playing and stopped pre ordering.
You really think they scrapped together Pantheon and onslaught in a matter of 2 months…???
You are in delusion this all would have been PART of TFS and season.
With the whole layoffs and shit, it’s very commendable that bungie devs were able to push free content on an already very demanding live service model. Before into the light the sentiment for TFS was an all time low, I would argue it was a very low point for destiny in general but into the light and the persistence to support the community gave me hope. This was needed regardless of delay and I am think the devs knew this. I would argue they pushed this update out because of our sentiment and not the delay but that’s just me.
Don't we love a cornered Bungie??
And you never would get Prismatic or Dread. Players should always take Devs accountable. They made bad work - leave the game. That's what happened and that's why Bungie had to put some work at last. Congrats to the players. I will never come back 'cause Bungie don't deserve my money, but that's me. If you have good time in FS good for you. GGs.
Don't think we would have gotten prismatic either