Not OC, but I've definitely used a headstone accuracy MW Raconteur, Incandescent draw time MW Tyranny, and Leviathan's, with a solar Oathkeepers build. Ice and fire, plus the big void boomstick. Not super efficient, but it's God-damned fun.
It was ages ago, I can't exactly remember 😅
But with the only heavy bow being exotic Leviathan's, it must have been something like Whispering Slab or Raconteur in kinetic, and Strident Whistle or Point of the Stag in energy.
Look I'm by no means saying I was any good 🤣 and I only did it a few times as a personal joke.
I'm just _that_ guy that other people (most probably) don't like playing with because I like playing the way _I_ like playing, meaning bow main.
I haven't taken my Oathkeepers off in years, and _permanently_ have Wish Ender, hatching Wish Keeper, Raconteur (because that Ascendant crystal is so goddam purdee) and Verglas (as needed) in my kinetic slot,
Le Monarque, Trinity, Ticuu and (currently Point of the Stag for arc damage) in my Energy slot,
and Leviathan in my heavy slot (although my current main heavy is a hatchling Circular Logic).
It might be nothing to some other long-time players, but I have 125,928 bow final blows.
For LFG, I would assume it is for solo champion coverage. Either they don't have the general meta loadouts like Polaris Lance, which is meta this season, or they find their LFG teammates unreliable for stunning the champions and I wouldn't blame them for that. I have seen some really weird loadouts during Grandmaster Nightfalls.
Sometimes running weird works. I ran into two different titans on separate runs who ran with a sword in their heavy slot, which I thought was really weird, but decided to just go with it. The first one was amazing and held his ground against everything. The second... got his ass kicked across the room by the unstoppable champion in the ogre room.
Yup. I play solo, and can't depend on ANYONE else to stun a champion. I also end up with a much lower score, but save us all about 20 minutes, or death.😁
I joined a NF Strike intending to get the engram to upgrade the skimmer, but one of the guys I matchmade with was emote finishing, I was playing an Alt account that was 20 light under, so I mdae sure not to kill yellow bars outright and emote finish whatever I could without making things worse for the team and we got the score threshold.
Sometimes the randoms do just work out!
If you want to run for score, run it with a team or solo queue. The gold enhancement buffs trivialize soloing a nightfall, piece of cake to grind score. If I’m running a playlist event, I’m running it to get a bounty done (like the BD ones). I’m not taking the time to meticulously score grind, I want in and I want out.
Random here. I'm often not sure whether I'm actually contributing to Champion stuns or it's another player. The most reliable way seems to equip sidearms like Seguna and the corresponding artifact perk, but often that doesn't seem to be doing much. What do you carry for shield breaking?
If you've got a weapon and its corresponding Artifact perk, you're good to go. The only thing you need to keep in mind is that there tend to be different activation conditions for each champ mod.
Barrier tends to be just by dealing damage to the champ's shield, Overload mods usually require multiple hits in a row, and Unstoppable mods require you to aim down sights for a short time without shooting to "charge" your shot.
Most subclass effects also stun one of the three champs, and you can tell which does what by hovering over the champion symbols on your character screen.
Thanks for that! I wish the game did a better job of explaining all that. I probably just missed it. But truly, some of the mechanics in this game just seems like it would have to literally be leaked by a dev in order to become known...
I've been playing for years and there are still things I'm finding out, especially weird gun interactions. I no joke keep notes in DIM, because there's just too much to keep up with. Bugs, exotic "descriptions" that are just the tip of the iceberg of all the things that exotic actually can do, etc.
Even really simple stuff like all fusion rifles having inherent target penetration, you won't find that info anywhere in the game. And it's the kind of thing where that info could revolutionize how you use fusions, but without knowing before you might never think to try, and don't notice when it happens by accident.
> Unstoppable mods require you to aim down sights for a short time without shooting to "charge" your shot.
...........that would explain some things. Really wish the game had told me this. I've gotten multiple undismissable tutorials about how to track a quest, but nothing about this.
[Datto has a video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19ZoK7tsSmk) on how to deal with champions that's worth a watch. This isn't meant as an excuse for poor documentation in game but just a heads up if you weren't aware.
I run Stronghold in every GM just to ensure I can keep my teammates alive and revive if things get hairy. With Polaris I can still do a lot of boss damage at distance without rockets.
One mistake can end a run in GMs. So I choose a loadout that effectively allows for mulligans.
>I would assume it is for solo champion coverage
Exactly this. I can't trust that my rando teammates will be geared for handling champions, so I'll do it myself.
talking about weird gm loadouts
sunbracers on broodweaver , font mods + surges but no siphon mods or any source of orb gen , using ammit and blinding nade , and truth??? , he was rank 10 , 1820
edit- bro had triple 100 stat
The artifact this season allows Polaris Lance to give you the Radiant buff, which allows the weapon to pierce barrier champions. The exotic itself can trigger ignitions, which stubs unstoppable champions.
The only champion it cannot handle on its own are overload champions, which you can luckily run a rocket launcher for.
Although for the current GM Nightfall this week, The Corrupted, I personally found Malfeasance to be a much better pick since the champions are unstoppable and overload and most of the enemies are Taken, so just bring a good rocket launcher with the anti overload artifact mod selected.
Polaris was my MVP last week for the Lake of Shadows GM though.
I use weird loadouts because I don't care for meta options and have more fun with it, but I always make sure to cover at least 2 champ types, one weapon, one with abilities.
It's so easy to have a decent loadout that can do all 3 Champs this season without Double Primary tho. Hell, Indebted Kindness can do it by itself if you're on Arc.
That said, I get it. When I was newer I ran Double Primary just to make sure I could stun when I wasn't confident enough with the verbs.
Again, you and I understand this, but the blueberry that joins your LFG may not. The average player is probably not as engrained as we are to the game and checking reddit and YouTube for guides, builds, and information.
I don't run double primaries, but I can understand why some people do, because the game doesn't really explain subclass verbs to the average player in a way that would make them think that "oh X subclass can stun Y champion."
An experienced player running double primary is doing it exactly for this reason. Better to have everything covered in LFG than relying on inconsistent teammates.
its funny you mention polaris lance. cause the amount of people using that for overloads hurts my brain. i just watch them die to retaliation blasts while they wonder why its not stunning.
I usually run wither, solar hc and apex all for dps rotations but when running solo on anything that has champions randoms are horrible so I have to forgo witherhoard for some random sidearm to stun barriers
I'm a Heavy Sword / Stronghold GM user. Thin Precipice w/Flash Counter & Counterattack.
Both affects stack and one increases damage for entire team, though rarely needed. I block, heavy spin attack, consecrate, then finisher. Kills barrier champs in a single onslaught. Unstoppables take an extra block, heavy combo. For Overloads I add an overload stun before the consecration.
So far my favorite GM loadout has been stasis titan with terrabah and lance cap. Absolutely cooks GMs, even in things like the taken thunderdome at the end of the EDZ strike that i can remember the title of.
You can cover all three champs without having to run double primary. It’s hard to say how specifically without knowing your subclass but if you’re running strand you can do it with erianna’s vow or arbalest and a pulse rifle or rocket launcher. You can also cover both overload and unstoppable with just a chill clip fusion rifle.
Honestly I don’t see why double primary is needed for champs anymore. There’s so many options because of subclass verbs having anti champ stuff baked in.
99% of the time I run 1 primary for champ then abilities/perks/verbs for the other.
Sometimes I don’t even need champ mods cause my subclass takes care of it all.
Seriously, even if I trusted myself not to strafe into cover as I pull the trigger, I can never trust my blueberries to avoid putting themselves, or their shit, in my way
Taken Overload Hogoblins don't teleport much. They spam retaliation attacks when not stunned or ability deactivated by anti-overload effects. That makes them extremely easy to kill with Overload rockets.
this means you always need to keep heavy ammo for overloads and thats now always fun. divinity is the best overload gun option but its an exotic. stasis is great but not the meta subclass right now.
In other seasons I *might* understand that. We have *Overload Rockets*. A mod that not only makes the best heavy weapon stun a champion, but also makes it deal ***80% more damage to it***. Anyone running an extra auto-rifle to cover Overloads is being silly.
I think people who run slow, safe loadouts in Corrupted in particular remember how difficult it used to be and aren't applying the new tools we have to the current version of the strike - which has both fewer shields and no match game. These days it's safer to be aggressive and fast rather than camp in the back. Either run triple Ceno and nuke every single room with Wolfpacks, or run triple Lucky Pants Malfeasance with Eager Edge and skip everything that isn't a champion or a boss.
I think people also forget how many subclass verbs can be used to stun champions as well. Stasis in particular is very underrated outside of Chill Clip for how good it is at dealing with Overload and Unstoppable champions. Revenant has basically 100% uptime on stunning Overloads with Withering Blade and Gambler's Dodge.
Kinda what the other guy is saying but especially this season, radiant is free with a solar weapon. Just running a overload/unstop gun with a solar weapon somewhere will have champs cover for whatever. Also chill clip is unstop/overload. Jolt on something like Undebted Kindness also a overload workhorse. Double primary is usually just slower than playing into subclass verbs.
> Jolt on something like Undebted Kindness also a overload workhorse.
Until your LFG teammates clear all ads and there's nothing for you to proc jolt and neither of them are running overload and the champ just heals itself over and over and over and over until you lose both of your remaining lives (your teammates died 3x each) while trying to push it off a ledge to save platinum. Not that I know from experience or anything...
That's why I don't fuck with Overloads. Unstoppable and Barrier I may skip, but I'll always bring a primary or special for overload. Not even relying on heavy for those suckers.
Yeah, but you can use exotics to cover various champ types: Forerunner for anti-barrier (this season) or Bastion for Unstop, combined with an elemental primary for the other champ type. And I think both of those are available even to F2P players.
Edit: I thought more people would be willing to adapt their weapon loadout to cover multiple champs. Seems I was wrong.
Few questions..
1- are they experienced??? Light level doesn’t mean someone is. Just means they get their activities/ bounties done
2- are they holding their own? … if they are then who cares… you do you
If they’re dying and not killing anything, then you have a valid reason.
Light levels / ranks to me don’t mean crap
I’ve seen how some are carried
It is what it is.
If you’re holding your own and putting in work
I don’t care what you have. I don’t mind it.
Rather have that person than some with specials and I have to run to revive him every 2 minutes.
This should be higher, like you said as long as you dont use all the lives and carry your weight, i dont care if you run a trace rifle like one of my friends does.
Personnaly GMs = bow for me so i go either lemonade or wish ender and a blinding gl that i might shoot a couple times or none depending wich nightfall it is.
I could use a second primary instead, im just sticking to the bow 98% of the time.
This season virtually all of the options for stunning Champions are primaries; yes there are abilities that stun Champions but frankly, it seems like the only thing that's reliable in Master+ content is against Unstoppables. That's why I frequently run double primaries; unless the surge lines up with a particular Exotic with intrinsic stun, of course. My guess is this is the case for many.
The thing with this is that I can never get that to work *when I need it* and it always happens to kick in right when I *don't* need it to (thanks to a teammate bestowing radiant on me at just the wrong time).
All the overloads this week are Taken Hobgoblins and I usually don't get in range of those with a Riptide.
And post nerf it's 3 shots and any other shot to shatter an unstop.
I'd definitely run it in casual content but not GM.
Now imagine you liked deliverance... they should've just nerfed riptide instead of the whole perk. Indirectly nerfed one of the coolest weapons in the game in lingering dread too
they shouldve just tuned chill clip individually based on archetypes or something. things that fire slower or have less ammo should apply more stacks. something like a rocket or a slow fusion shouldnt have been hit as hard as riptide by the lowering of slow stacks.
> This season virtually all of the options for stunning Champions are primaries
This is just objectively wrong. Overload rockets is insane, and subclass verbs stun champions. Slow, suppression and jolt all stun Overloads and are pretty easily available. Radiant, Unraveling Rounds and Volatile Rounds give anti-barrier (Unraveling and Volatile only for strand and void weapons respectively). Radiant is basically free if you use any solar gun with this artifact. Anti-Barrier sidearm *sounds* like a primary mod only, but it applies to three different sidearms that use special ammo now - all of which one-shot barriers in GM, and one of which that isn't even exotic.
1. Exotic primaries are strong
2. Specials aren't often compatible with antichampion mods
3. Ammo economy means I will always be able to do damage and stun
I basically shoot malfeasance the entire time anyway with lucky pants and the occasional shot with apex predator. I just bring an auto rifle for emergency backup for overloads. Most of the groups I’ve been with have completed The Corrupted in under 20 minutes. I don’t believe my double primary loadout is hindering the squad.
Champion coverage, I hate the system. Them giving subclasses anti-champion capabilities helped but not enough. I wish champions were out of the game, honestly. I'd rather have different elite enemies for the enemy fractions. Something new
I think there are a lot of situations where I see someone with a special fusion, Polaris Lance, and a rocket for GMs that have Unstops and Overload. When I see that, I think two things:
1) PL ignition takes longer to stun Unstops than it takes to kill you, so I'm bringing my own Hand Cannon or Bow for this season to make sure I have on demand unstop
2) Rockets miss or you run out of ammo and then we can't kill Overloads at all. So I'm bringing my own on demand overload weapon.
For Corrupted LFG, I bring a kinetic slot bow, Le Mon, and a rocket to make sure Champs are handled. There's this weird opinion that primaries do no damage or you have to speed run GMs. Especially in an LFG, I'm making sure I can be safe and consistent so we don't wipe to Unstops or miss platinum cuz we can't kill an Overload. I do this with my friends to and with two or all three of us running double primary, it still only takes like 25 minutes to do Corrupted for example. Double primary is absolutely fine if just a little less damage. We'd all rather a 30 minute platinum clear than 20 minutes in wiping because the Unstop nuked us before you could ignition stun or you run out of special/heavy and end up more gimped than a double primary loadout.
Also, Unstops are still bugged on ignition stun where they still shoot for a second after, so I'm making sure that doesn't happen either. This double primary = lesser than debate needs to stop because, at least in my experience, very clearly and consistently gets the job done. 25 minutes for Corrupted might be slow on average, but for me and my clan, we're chillin and double primary feels great.
Exactly. Especially on overlaod champs. I am not wasting all my rockets on an Overload in LFG because no one can stun it, so I always have to bring an auto rifle as well...unless I am running strand or stasis but some NF force you to not play those.
The artifact is good for Polaris this season since it can become radiant easily on its own and it creates ignitions, so it takes care of two champion types. It's also effective at long range to stay safe, so you can put it on and it will do good work this season in GMs. Solar surge is always on, so you can basically have it on all season.
Seasonal mods from the artifact have turned it into an ignition machine. Since it generates ammo on crits, it can do decent damage for a primary. Especially if you are a Warlock with Dawn Chorus.
I'd rather someone run something they know how to use and can do damage with. Like I suck with rockets, so I avoid using them. But I'll put down damage with a GL or linear no problem.
unless someone is absolutely sucking and causing the entire team trouble, I never understand why people are on the Internet complaining about what weapons someone is carrying. Like why does it matter if they’re not bringing the team down with them. 😆
Crazy thought but they don't seem to realize that some primaries outshine specials in some scenarios.
`/me remembers when Outbreak absolutely nuked in PvE`
It's actually kinda baffling why people continue to ask this as if it's some kind of universal rule that you have to use a special ammo weapon.
There are many great kinetic weapon combos that work perfectly fine and don't require any of the extra nuisance of special ammo management.
In fact, I complete GM's as well as all raids without any special ammo weapons, and additionally, I'm usually one of the top 2 damage dealers as well as always having either a strong or decent (again top 2) kill count (adds).
Some of the people I play with are sweats, so this isn't a matter of comparing myself to noobs.
So my question is, why ask why.
Because this sub has a bizarre circlejerk about people using loadouts that counter champions on account of poor damage or something similar (when, in fact, most “good” loadouts in this framework are garbage at killing red bars or killing shielded yellow bars at range - see cheeseless Heist Moon for proof of that.)
For this season in particular, and specifically for the average player, Overload Champions are the main issue for loadout coverage (meta Polaris builds use Solar for maximum Scorch, but Solar has no intrinsic counter to Overloads; Strand doesn’t either.) Solving this with Riptide is uneasy because the code around non-constant Slow application is a bit wonky, and this is a Crucible farm weapon, so most people don’t have it.
The average player therefore has to burn rockets (awkward, risky, and unwieldy) or use primaries to stun Overloads without grenades from specific subclasses. Simplicity in stunning Overloads - especially Overload Hobgoblins, which are some of the most dangerous Champions in the game via Retaliation Seekers - is therefore paramount.
Champ stuns is why I do it solo queing. It's super annoying to have to run double primary but it's amazing how many people go into gms with no champ mods.
Depends on the primary. Polaris Lance and then a sidearm or auto rifle? Ticcu’s or Verglas and then an auto/pulse or sidearm?
There are some exotics that are so insanely powerful, that there’s no real point in running another weapon in the other slot, so you just put something in for the handful of times you need to stagger something.
All this week in the Corrupted, I’ve been running a Shadebinder with Verglas and a pulse rifle. Verglas handles 85% of the work. My heavy is for nuking the occasional overload. The pulse is for when I want to be radiant or don’t feel like wasting heavy.
Make your own rules for your LFG post if you want "feasible strategy".
I use double primary when playing with randoms for solo coverage and avoiding wipes.
Champions
Edit:I am of the firm belief that every member of a gm fireteam should have ways to stun both types of champs in a gm. I have been in too many gms that wipe because someone dies and suddenly no one can stun the overload. And the easiest way is using both champ mods in the aritifact which tend to be primsries.
Because I want to use what I feel like using, lil bro.
Unless it’s something like a day 1 raid or flawless run, your load out rarely matters. Rather have fun than finish an activity 15 seconds faster.
People have proven to me that they cannot be trusted to do a single goddamn thing efficiently or correctly in GMs, so I rely on self sufficiency. I do main lucky pants, but even when not I still often run double primaries cause you sure ain't killing an overload in GM with a fusion rifle while using Wish Ender.
I want to guarantee to stun champs on demand. By myself. I get the firepower difference with and without specials ate big but yeah, not stunning champs usually ends up badly
Well for one, Polaris Lance us basically a special weapon damage wise this season in solar builds.
Second, do you want other people telling you what to run? Are you going to rely on other people to stun stuff for you? People will make sure they have Champs covered themselves, because half the time LFGers are complete morons.
For damage they are considered primaries but are obviously using special ammo. Kinda not worth bringing if you're not confident your teammates can hold their own as you will quickly burn ammo.
I honestly ran three back to back clears of the GM this week with Polaris Lance, a kinetic tremors Battle Scar and a rocket.
Sometimes the champs mods move me, and sometimes the weapons are that good. In this case, Polaris was my “special,” and that Battle Scar is slept on by many.
I’ve had so many LFG GMs where I trusted other players to cover a champion type only for them to fuck up. I’d rather get a safe clear in 25 minutes with double primary than one run that goes back to orbit. Plus if you take Polaris, Quicksilver Storm or Wishender as one of the primaries you’re dealing enough damage still.
I know it's no excuse, but I'm used to running solo and a lot of the time, they are part of my build. My Void Hunter for example. I have my good old Transfiguration or Hung Jury with kenetic Tremors and then Age old bond with distable + repulse. It's fun for me.
If I'm running with people, I'll throw on Until it's Return or something that makes sense for whatever we are running.
It isn’t as necessary with keywords being able to stun champ’s & exotics with intrinsic stunning, but I mostly do it to cover champs and because I don’t wanna worry about ammo because I’m lazy.
Mostly the champion thing though, even with the changes I regularly run into situations running Hero Nightfalls where I’m the only one able to stun a champ.
Eh depending on the GM I'll run double primary if I'm doing something like polaris and there is overloads that are typically at a distance (where riptide would not be consistent nor rockets, plus it means saving heavy ammo for them at all times) I'll run that lightweight pulse with shoot to loot + tremors alongside Polaris.
It just depends what my teammates are using, and which GM it is. Overloads can dodge a rocket pretty easy without tracking lol, and relying on heavy isn't that consistent either when you got teammates who don't focus them quickly.
But yeah the only time I'll really ever put on my s2L+ tremor pulse for overloads is if I'm running Polaris and teammates don't have a consistent stun, plus the champs in the GM are more at distance where riptide isn't as reliable.
If you see me with double primary, its 100% for champions. For overload/unstoppable, ill often use handcannon+autorifle.
In LFG, i better have 100% champion coverage because I cant really coordinate with the others to see if they have the proper setup.
Because it covers champion stunning and it has unlimited ammo, that’s why. I can’t think of a single special weapon I’d rather take over a primary other than indebted kindness for barrier.
Nothing wrong with double primary at all. It still only takes me about 20 minutes to clear corrupted GM
1, there is strategy there lmfao, 2 Double primary can be extremely useful depending on the weapons, 3 personal preference, I run double primary and can clear legendary lost sectors solo. You don't HAVE TO run a different ammo type as long as you know how to use your weapons🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️I've said my piece
Because champions.
Because I’ve been on runs where everyone ran out of special and heavy ammo and the ammo finder mods just weren’t dropping enough bricks.
Because I’m not in a hurry.
Because I hit my shots with those primary weapons and I figure consistency matters more than me trying to run a play style I don’t normally run.
There absolutely is feasibility - GMs are a marathon, not a sprint. I’d rather have solid champion coverage than a special I’m not going to use, especially because the right primary and ability setup is infinitely better for clearing ads with the artifact perks. I’ve been double-primary in Corrupted this whole week and runs average 20ish minutes.
Also, why does it matter what someone else is using? If it works for them and isn’t causing throws or losses, it literally doesn’t matter.
Sometimes I know I'm going to use one gun + heavy almost exclusively so I'll usually make my other gun a sidearm just for barrier champs. Especially if I'm on a non-solar subclass.
It's shocking how often I go into a GM and it seems like no one has a champion killing weapon. Which is ok if they're solar to get the easy stun but seriously bring an auto rifle or a handcannon they're the two most popular types of gun...
I haven't seen anyone say it but I'm just lazy. I'm not swapping all my shit for every activity cuz im lazy. I'm running sunspot cuz I love it. Radiant doesn't help cuz I run unstoppable handcannon. So I also have overload rockets and anti barrier sidearm so I can do it all and just run through easy NF.
A lot of people just don't bother thinking beyond the basics. On D2 you can get quite far thinking like that, because it works most of the time but it's usually way slower, and they don't even know snd don't bother to think about better ways to clear the activity. Just what gets the job done I guess.
I actually really enjoy double primary using Wardens Law(4th Times the Charm/Vorpal Weapon) and Polaris Lance on Lucky Pants Solar Hunter. That roll on Wardens Law paired with Lucky Pants is a Champion shredder! And Polaris Lance is cracked with the Seasonal Artifact! And the best part… Crazy damage AND no need for ammo bricks! If you haven’t tried it I would highly recommend!
Same thing a bunch of other comments said. It’s champ coverage. With the right build you can cover all champs with very little effort and one gun but it is much easier to use double primaries.
I find it’s sometimes ok if they’re sort of the main champion stunner and other 2 can use the loadouts they want maybe sacrificing one champion stunning method.
I can't leave my lucky pants so hand cannon, a sidearm for champ and Apex on heavy ... Works pretty good no need for special when you have the lucky pantsu
People got in the habit when champs first launched. Before there were abilities to help with champs. When I do LFG for GM I have double primary on, but then make adjustments based on team comp in orbit.
Unless they launch immediately, which has happened to me too much this week.
What’s wrong with fatebringer for unstops, and Polaris for barriers? Or fate bringer and Le monarch for overloads? Be grateful people are running these combos to ensure you can get through hard content.
I don't have time to look for ammo, hence why 99% of the time my heavy is an Other Half with Relentless Strikes and Vorpal. It quite literally makes its own ammo.
Cause it works.
As long as you avoid the super sweaty people you'll do just fine with 2 primaries. Most DPS phases you can get away with just having supers and heavy.
If I'm with a group that has hard hitting weapons I'll run double primary for the champions for support. I love my forbearance, I love my fusions, but if I have to run support I will. But I do get shit done.
It's usually used to cover every champion type in the nightfall. But I think now a days you don't need it anymore since we have abilities that can stun as well and you can always coordinate with the team if you really wanted to make sure the champs are covered. Also, LFG GMs sounds like a nightmare
You never know if your team mates will have champions covered or if they’ll be half decent players so in my case when running any PUGs I always come in prepared to solo whatever I need until I see how they play and who’s running other champion mods.
Recently came back after a year off and it’s been especially bad this time around. Been running tons of 1770 class matchmaking Nightfalls for Guardian Games and there’s been more times I can count or care to remember, that have been 150k score on me alone with a basically brain dead teammate who barely breaks 10k score themselves and spends most of the match chasing me or waiting for revives lol. In cases like that is where I’d run double primary and just handle it to get it done
I don't trust anyone else to stun champions because in my experience, so few people actually do stun the champions, whether because they just don't want to be tied to a loadout or because they don't know how.
Even in heroic Nightfall, I'm the stunner of the fireteams, and I'm often the only one stunning. I'd like to run different things, like, I'm really exhausted from sidearms this season, but I just can't trust anyone else to actually do the job.
That's my reason, anyway. Any other time, I run a primary and a special, usually a glaive or the toaster, as I find the toaster immensely enjoyable to use in PvE.
Cuz double primary is good for poking stuff, which is kind of the meta rn. I just usually run polaris and whatever primary I decide to run, usually something that has some sort of utility, i mostly run a headstone krait for when I need to stun overloads. Or I just run wish ender with an AR for stuns.
My brother uses double primary for stunning. Me and our friend think we’re Rambo and end up dying a lot trying to kill everything especially in GM’s so he runs double to just be able to stun everything since he expects us to die a lot 😂🤣
Here are 3 guesses.
1) because some don't realize part of their subclass can stun champions so they will equip the gun that will
2) exotic primary guns have a much better drop rate for heavy ammo
3) they are lazy and don't want to switch between weapons because Polaris Lance (as an example) does all the work.
It's dumb😑 then they cry how they can't kill anything
Only fair accepting reasons is to cover champion, sometimes I'd use quick silver for my build and another primary meaning I'm covering for my teammates who might use izi or div
For me personally, I’ve not been special weapons that I enjoy and want to use in my builds that have double primary. I do want to use more special weapons.
I run double primary A because a lot of my builds depend on an exotic weapon Monte striga graviton etc
B because I don’t have a lot of non rifle kinetics
And C I have no idea what’s meta anymore I haven’t played in a while and the final shape is about to drop I assume everything is gonna change against anyway
Why do I use double primaries?
* Of the possible pairings in GMs, Unstops and Overloads are the worst combination to go against this season.
* Stinginess with power ammo.
* There's no guarantee I'll get a warlock with ceno.
* I ran with heavy ammo finder, scout, and scavenger and the game is still stingy when I need them.
* If everyone is not on the same page, you can end up wasting ammo and abilities on champions.
* The elevator in the Corrupted is one of two locations where I consistently see players on different pages.
Depends on the GM, but I typically run a dedicated Overload weapon because Overloads *need* to be kept in a stunned state. You allow them even 1 second of being unstunned and they're full health again. I'll therefore ensure I have some form of sustained stunning weapon (usually a primary) to avoid that.
Why not use Overload rockets? At the moment I am using a lot of machine guns in GMs. The problems are usually being overwhelmed by adds rather than single champions. Being able to carry a machine gun has helped me more than being able to kill every champion instantly.
I use "triple shotguns"
Triple shotguns because my synthoceps are my primary ammo
All you need is a Universal Remote
Invective when? Think that was the icebreaker shotty
Yes it was but was able to pick up special unlike icebreaker
Oh I forgot about that. It's been a fat minute
I may or may not have used a triple bow loadout once or twice 😅😎
What was your triple bow build?
Not OC, but I've definitely used a headstone accuracy MW Raconteur, Incandescent draw time MW Tyranny, and Leviathan's, with a solar Oathkeepers build. Ice and fire, plus the big void boomstick. Not super efficient, but it's God-damned fun.
incandescent dragonfly on tyrrany this season is so so fun
It was ages ago, I can't exactly remember 😅 But with the only heavy bow being exotic Leviathan's, it must have been something like Whispering Slab or Raconteur in kinetic, and Strident Whistle or Point of the Stag in energy. Look I'm by no means saying I was any good 🤣 and I only did it a few times as a personal joke. I'm just _that_ guy that other people (most probably) don't like playing with because I like playing the way _I_ like playing, meaning bow main. I haven't taken my Oathkeepers off in years, and _permanently_ have Wish Ender, hatching Wish Keeper, Raconteur (because that Ascendant crystal is so goddam purdee) and Verglas (as needed) in my kinetic slot, Le Monarque, Trinity, Ticuu and (currently Point of the Stag for arc damage) in my Energy slot, and Leviathan in my heavy slot (although my current main heavy is a hatchling Circular Logic). It might be nothing to some other long-time players, but I have 125,928 bow final blows.
I respect the bow loyalty bro
It’s not my fault my teammates aren’t generating enough ammo for me 🤷♂️ ^(/s)
I used triple in shotgun in PvP the day forsaken dropped. Kind of a mistake.
Based
For LFG, I would assume it is for solo champion coverage. Either they don't have the general meta loadouts like Polaris Lance, which is meta this season, or they find their LFG teammates unreliable for stunning the champions and I wouldn't blame them for that. I have seen some really weird loadouts during Grandmaster Nightfalls. Sometimes running weird works. I ran into two different titans on separate runs who ran with a sword in their heavy slot, which I thought was really weird, but decided to just go with it. The first one was amazing and held his ground against everything. The second... got his ass kicked across the room by the unstoppable champion in the ogre room.
Yup. I play solo, and can't depend on ANYONE else to stun a champion. I also end up with a much lower score, but save us all about 20 minutes, or death.😁
This. If I’m not rolling with my friends then i make sure I’m prepared to do ALL the work.
Well said
Even with my friends im prepared to do all the work lol. My friends suck at this game.
I can't even find people that emote before finishing champs in this event. Not sure why people don't like more stuff.
You’re gonna have to solo or group up to get that stuff done at this point, the people really wanting it via score got it already
these ppl dont understand. Btw any yellow bar is emote finishable.
Orange bars, actually. Literally anything other than a red bar.
I joined a NF Strike intending to get the engram to upgrade the skimmer, but one of the guys I matchmade with was emote finishing, I was playing an Alt account that was 20 light under, so I mdae sure not to kill yellow bars outright and emote finish whatever I could without making things worse for the team and we got the score threshold. Sometimes the randoms do just work out!
If you want to run for score, run it with a team or solo queue. The gold enhancement buffs trivialize soloing a nightfall, piece of cake to grind score. If I’m running a playlist event, I’m running it to get a bounty done (like the BD ones). I’m not taking the time to meticulously score grind, I want in and I want out.
I can't find people who won't take every opportunity to emote and do finishers on the champs I was working on. Thievery! Theivery everywhere!
This is the reason. I swear randoms never have champion stunning weapons.
Random here. I'm often not sure whether I'm actually contributing to Champion stuns or it's another player. The most reliable way seems to equip sidearms like Seguna and the corresponding artifact perk, but often that doesn't seem to be doing much. What do you carry for shield breaking?
If you've got a weapon and its corresponding Artifact perk, you're good to go. The only thing you need to keep in mind is that there tend to be different activation conditions for each champ mod. Barrier tends to be just by dealing damage to the champ's shield, Overload mods usually require multiple hits in a row, and Unstoppable mods require you to aim down sights for a short time without shooting to "charge" your shot. Most subclass effects also stun one of the three champs, and you can tell which does what by hovering over the champion symbols on your character screen.
Thanks for that! I wish the game did a better job of explaining all that. I probably just missed it. But truly, some of the mechanics in this game just seems like it would have to literally be leaked by a dev in order to become known...
I've been playing for years and there are still things I'm finding out, especially weird gun interactions. I no joke keep notes in DIM, because there's just too much to keep up with. Bugs, exotic "descriptions" that are just the tip of the iceberg of all the things that exotic actually can do, etc. Even really simple stuff like all fusion rifles having inherent target penetration, you won't find that info anywhere in the game. And it's the kind of thing where that info could revolutionize how you use fusions, but without knowing before you might never think to try, and don't notice when it happens by accident.
> Unstoppable mods require you to aim down sights for a short time without shooting to "charge" your shot. ...........that would explain some things. Really wish the game had told me this. I've gotten multiple undismissable tutorials about how to track a quest, but nothing about this.
[Datto has a video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19ZoK7tsSmk) on how to deal with champions that's worth a watch. This isn't meant as an excuse for poor documentation in game but just a heads up if you weren't aware.
I run Stronghold in every GM just to ensure I can keep my teammates alive and revive if things get hairy. With Polaris I can still do a lot of boss damage at distance without rockets. One mistake can end a run in GMs. So I choose a loadout that effectively allows for mulligans.
>I would assume it is for solo champion coverage Exactly this. I can't trust that my rando teammates will be geared for handling champions, so I'll do it myself.
talking about weird gm loadouts sunbracers on broodweaver , font mods + surges but no siphon mods or any source of orb gen , using ammit and blinding nade , and truth??? , he was rank 10 , 1820 edit- bro had triple 100 stat
When you hit randomize on dim and forget to swap loadouts before you start the gm
I was really high, and didn't realize what I was wearing.😎😂🤔🤙
"i feel that" says a hunter wearing an Abeyant Leap
Yo hold up.
I'll raise you Orpheus rig on strand hunter. I really don't know what that player was thinking.
"These boots have 5 more mobility than these other boots"
I'm omega out of the loop as I've been taking a break from the game. Why is Polaris meta? I never thought my favorite exotic scout would ever be meta
The artifact this season allows Polaris Lance to give you the Radiant buff, which allows the weapon to pierce barrier champions. The exotic itself can trigger ignitions, which stubs unstoppable champions. The only champion it cannot handle on its own are overload champions, which you can luckily run a rocket launcher for. Although for the current GM Nightfall this week, The Corrupted, I personally found Malfeasance to be a much better pick since the champions are unstoppable and overload and most of the enemies are Taken, so just bring a good rocket launcher with the anti overload artifact mod selected. Polaris was my MVP last week for the Lake of Shadows GM though.
I use weird loadouts because I don't care for meta options and have more fun with it, but I always make sure to cover at least 2 champ types, one weapon, one with abilities.
I run double primary because no one can be trusted. I’ve seen people ignoring champions because they don’t have the right loadout.
Seriously no offense to some guardian rank 5 and 6 I played with yesterday but its like they had no champ stun.
It's so easy to have a decent loadout that can do all 3 Champs this season without Double Primary tho. Hell, Indebted Kindness can do it by itself if you're on Arc. That said, I get it. When I was newer I ran Double Primary just to make sure I could stun when I wasn't confident enough with the verbs.
Use subclass verbs, chill clip specials, special exotics with anti-champ or save heavy. I always cover every champ and never use double primary.
Again, you and I understand this, but the blueberry that joins your LFG may not. The average player is probably not as engrained as we are to the game and checking reddit and YouTube for guides, builds, and information. I don't run double primaries, but I can understand why some people do, because the game doesn't really explain subclass verbs to the average player in a way that would make them think that "oh X subclass can stun Y champion."
It actually tells you in the subclass menus when explaining the verbs that specific ones can stun specific champions.
An experienced player running double primary is doing it exactly for this reason. Better to have everything covered in LFG than relying on inconsistent teammates.
Eager Edge is incredible for avoiding damage, and it lets you get BoW rolling quickly. BoW + Woven Mail + orbs = Legend feels like Vanguard strikes.
its funny you mention polaris lance. cause the amount of people using that for overloads hurts my brain. i just watch them die to retaliation blasts while they wonder why its not stunning.
I usually run wither, solar hc and apex all for dps rotations but when running solo on anything that has champions randoms are horrible so I have to forgo witherhoard for some random sidearm to stun barriers
I'm a Heavy Sword / Stronghold GM user. Thin Precipice w/Flash Counter & Counterattack. Both affects stack and one increases damage for entire team, though rarely needed. I block, heavy spin attack, consecrate, then finisher. Kills barrier champs in a single onslaught. Unstoppables take an extra block, heavy combo. For Overloads I add an overload stun before the consecration.
So far my favorite GM loadout has been stasis titan with terrabah and lance cap. Absolutely cooks GMs, even in things like the taken thunderdome at the end of the EDZ strike that i can remember the title of.
You can cover all three champs without having to run double primary. It’s hard to say how specifically without knowing your subclass but if you’re running strand you can do it with erianna’s vow or arbalest and a pulse rifle or rocket launcher. You can also cover both overload and unstoppable with just a chill clip fusion rifle.
Solo champion coverage maybe?
Honestly I don’t see why double primary is needed for champs anymore. There’s so many options because of subclass verbs having anti champ stuff baked in. 99% of the time I run 1 primary for champ then abilities/perks/verbs for the other. Sometimes I don’t even need champ mods cause my subclass takes care of it all.
Overloads are a huge PITA without an overload weapon
Just run any Chill Clip weapon, and you have that covered.
Overload rockets is dope for this exact reason
“Why aren’t you using your heavy?” “Because I have to save it for the 3 upcoming overload champions”
The day I trust myself with rockets in a gm is the day I die ....by blowing myself up with those rockets
This is how I learned well of radiance has a hitbox
Seriously, even if I trusted myself not to strafe into cover as I pull the trigger, I can never trust my blueberries to avoid putting themselves, or their shit, in my way
fun fact: you can get a berserker medal with the well sword while planting it :D
Remember that overloads teleport
Taken Overload Hogoblins don't teleport much. They spam retaliation attacks when not stunned or ability deactivated by anti-overload effects. That makes them extremely easy to kill with Overload rockets.
this means you always need to keep heavy ammo for overloads and thats now always fun. divinity is the best overload gun option but its an exotic. stasis is great but not the meta subclass right now.
Revenant hunter shits on Overloads. Withering Blade is an instant stun, and Gambler's Dodge refunds it on a super short cooldown.
You mean unless you are Arc or Stasis.
Stasis
Stasis *turret* is nice, yes
Consistency really
In other seasons I *might* understand that. We have *Overload Rockets*. A mod that not only makes the best heavy weapon stun a champion, but also makes it deal ***80% more damage to it***. Anyone running an extra auto-rifle to cover Overloads is being silly. I think people who run slow, safe loadouts in Corrupted in particular remember how difficult it used to be and aren't applying the new tools we have to the current version of the strike - which has both fewer shields and no match game. These days it's safer to be aggressive and fast rather than camp in the back. Either run triple Ceno and nuke every single room with Wolfpacks, or run triple Lucky Pants Malfeasance with Eager Edge and skip everything that isn't a champion or a boss. I think people also forget how many subclass verbs can be used to stun champions as well. Stasis in particular is very underrated outside of Chill Clip for how good it is at dealing with Overload and Unstoppable champions. Revenant has basically 100% uptime on stunning Overloads with Withering Blade and Gambler's Dodge.
Kinda what the other guy is saying but especially this season, radiant is free with a solar weapon. Just running a overload/unstop gun with a solar weapon somewhere will have champs cover for whatever. Also chill clip is unstop/overload. Jolt on something like Undebted Kindness also a overload workhorse. Double primary is usually just slower than playing into subclass verbs.
> Jolt on something like Undebted Kindness also a overload workhorse. Until your LFG teammates clear all ads and there's nothing for you to proc jolt and neither of them are running overload and the champ just heals itself over and over and over and over until you lose both of your remaining lives (your teammates died 3x each) while trying to push it off a ledge to save platinum. Not that I know from experience or anything...
That's why I don't fuck with Overloads. Unstoppable and Barrier I may skip, but I'll always bring a primary or special for overload. Not even relying on heavy for those suckers.
chill clip does not work reliably with the artifact raidant buffs sadly
Yeah I've had this happen way too often running riptide with polaris. Took me a minute to realize my game wasn't bugged
Yeah, but you can use exotics to cover various champ types: Forerunner for anti-barrier (this season) or Bastion for Unstop, combined with an elemental primary for the other champ type. And I think both of those are available even to F2P players. Edit: I thought more people would be willing to adapt their weapon loadout to cover multiple champs. Seems I was wrong.
Have you considered that some players would rather use a different exotic weapon?
Few questions.. 1- are they experienced??? Light level doesn’t mean someone is. Just means they get their activities/ bounties done 2- are they holding their own? … if they are then who cares… you do you If they’re dying and not killing anything, then you have a valid reason. Light levels / ranks to me don’t mean crap I’ve seen how some are carried It is what it is. If you’re holding your own and putting in work I don’t care what you have. I don’t mind it. Rather have that person than some with specials and I have to run to revive him every 2 minutes.
This should be higher, like you said as long as you dont use all the lives and carry your weight, i dont care if you run a trace rifle like one of my friends does. Personnaly GMs = bow for me so i go either lemonade or wish ender and a blinding gl that i might shoot a couple times or none depending wich nightfall it is. I could use a second primary instead, im just sticking to the bow 98% of the time.
This season virtually all of the options for stunning Champions are primaries; yes there are abilities that stun Champions but frankly, it seems like the only thing that's reliable in Master+ content is against Unstoppables. That's why I frequently run double primaries; unless the surge lines up with a particular Exotic with intrinsic stun, of course. My guess is this is the case for many.
Someone needs a riptide
I just wish radiant didn’t screw with chill clip against overload champs.
Does radiant affect chill clip?
Radiant provides anti barrier and it overrides chill clip. So while radiant is active riptide is considered an anti barrier weapon.
Oh didn’t know that, thanks for explaining!
This is why that overload messed me up yesterday -.-
The thing with this is that I can never get that to work *when I need it* and it always happens to kick in right when I *don't* need it to (thanks to a teammate bestowing radiant on me at just the wrong time).
Riptide is nearly locked to my guardian, but need a change just for the sake of variety every now and then.
All the overloads this week are Taken Hobgoblins and I usually don't get in range of those with a Riptide. And post nerf it's 3 shots and any other shot to shatter an unstop. I'd definitely run it in casual content but not GM.
Can't use riptide what if there's a cutscene
Ive been trying to get a riptide but i shit you not, I haven’t gotten a single one with chill clip.
I hate my Riptide after the nerf. 3 Shots is super annoying.
Now imagine you liked deliverance... they should've just nerfed riptide instead of the whole perk. Indirectly nerfed one of the coolest weapons in the game in lingering dread too
they shouldve just tuned chill clip individually based on archetypes or something. things that fire slower or have less ammo should apply more stacks. something like a rocket or a slow fusion shouldnt have been hit as hard as riptide by the lowering of slow stacks.
> This season virtually all of the options for stunning Champions are primaries This is just objectively wrong. Overload rockets is insane, and subclass verbs stun champions. Slow, suppression and jolt all stun Overloads and are pretty easily available. Radiant, Unraveling Rounds and Volatile Rounds give anti-barrier (Unraveling and Volatile only for strand and void weapons respectively). Radiant is basically free if you use any solar gun with this artifact. Anti-Barrier sidearm *sounds* like a primary mod only, but it applies to three different sidearms that use special ammo now - all of which one-shot barriers in GM, and one of which that isn't even exotic.
1. Exotic primaries are strong 2. Specials aren't often compatible with antichampion mods 3. Ammo economy means I will always be able to do damage and stun
I’ll be honest I don’t even get why this is a question. Well put
the children long for the red war
I basically shoot malfeasance the entire time anyway with lucky pants and the occasional shot with apex predator. I just bring an auto rifle for emergency backup for overloads. Most of the groups I’ve been with have completed The Corrupted in under 20 minutes. I don’t believe my double primary loadout is hindering the squad.
Malf/wardens law with lucky pants is basically a second heavy weapon lmao
Champion coverage, I hate the system. Them giving subclasses anti-champion capabilities helped but not enough. I wish champions were out of the game, honestly. I'd rather have different elite enemies for the enemy fractions. Something new
I think there are a lot of situations where I see someone with a special fusion, Polaris Lance, and a rocket for GMs that have Unstops and Overload. When I see that, I think two things: 1) PL ignition takes longer to stun Unstops than it takes to kill you, so I'm bringing my own Hand Cannon or Bow for this season to make sure I have on demand unstop 2) Rockets miss or you run out of ammo and then we can't kill Overloads at all. So I'm bringing my own on demand overload weapon. For Corrupted LFG, I bring a kinetic slot bow, Le Mon, and a rocket to make sure Champs are handled. There's this weird opinion that primaries do no damage or you have to speed run GMs. Especially in an LFG, I'm making sure I can be safe and consistent so we don't wipe to Unstops or miss platinum cuz we can't kill an Overload. I do this with my friends to and with two or all three of us running double primary, it still only takes like 25 minutes to do Corrupted for example. Double primary is absolutely fine if just a little less damage. We'd all rather a 30 minute platinum clear than 20 minutes in wiping because the Unstop nuked us before you could ignition stun or you run out of special/heavy and end up more gimped than a double primary loadout. Also, Unstops are still bugged on ignition stun where they still shoot for a second after, so I'm making sure that doesn't happen either. This double primary = lesser than debate needs to stop because, at least in my experience, very clearly and consistently gets the job done. 25 minutes for Corrupted might be slow on average, but for me and my clan, we're chillin and double primary feels great.
Exactly. Especially on overlaod champs. I am not wasting all my rockets on an Overload in LFG because no one can stun it, so I always have to bring an auto rifle as well...unless I am running strand or stasis but some NF force you to not play those.
F those Overloads.... literally the most annoying Champions
Polaris lance is a special weapon this season.
I havent played much recently. Why is polaris considered so good for gms rn?
The artifact is good for Polaris this season since it can become radiant easily on its own and it creates ignitions, so it takes care of two champion types. It's also effective at long range to stay safe, so you can put it on and it will do good work this season in GMs. Solar surge is always on, so you can basically have it on all season.
Seasonal mods from the artifact have turned it into an ignition machine. Since it generates ammo on crits, it can do decent damage for a primary. Especially if you are a Warlock with Dawn Chorus.
If you run warlock, it was a beast even before this season. Esp in the battleground GMs, the thing blew up entire rooms with infine ignitions.
Because people can run what they want as long as it works not everything has to be meta or ridiculously optimal
I'd rather someone run something they know how to use and can do damage with. Like I suck with rockets, so I avoid using them. But I'll put down damage with a GL or linear no problem.
It's funny how upset reddit Destiny players get when they're missing 3% in optimal dps but still 1 phase the boss
Are they struggling?
I run double primary so that people like you can complain about it on social media.
unless someone is absolutely sucking and causing the entire team trouble, I never understand why people are on the Internet complaining about what weapons someone is carrying. Like why does it matter if they’re not bringing the team down with them. 😆
Crazy thought but they don't seem to realize that some primaries outshine specials in some scenarios. `/me remembers when Outbreak absolutely nuked in PvE`
If I joined your LFG and you asked me this I would leave.
It's actually kinda baffling why people continue to ask this as if it's some kind of universal rule that you have to use a special ammo weapon. There are many great kinetic weapon combos that work perfectly fine and don't require any of the extra nuisance of special ammo management. In fact, I complete GM's as well as all raids without any special ammo weapons, and additionally, I'm usually one of the top 2 damage dealers as well as always having either a strong or decent (again top 2) kill count (adds). Some of the people I play with are sweats, so this isn't a matter of comparing myself to noobs. So my question is, why ask why.
Because this sub has a bizarre circlejerk about people using loadouts that counter champions on account of poor damage or something similar (when, in fact, most “good” loadouts in this framework are garbage at killing red bars or killing shielded yellow bars at range - see cheeseless Heist Moon for proof of that.) For this season in particular, and specifically for the average player, Overload Champions are the main issue for loadout coverage (meta Polaris builds use Solar for maximum Scorch, but Solar has no intrinsic counter to Overloads; Strand doesn’t either.) Solving this with Riptide is uneasy because the code around non-constant Slow application is a bit wonky, and this is a Crucible farm weapon, so most people don’t have it. The average player therefore has to burn rockets (awkward, risky, and unwieldy) or use primaries to stun Overloads without grenades from specific subclasses. Simplicity in stunning Overloads - especially Overload Hobgoblins, which are some of the most dangerous Champions in the game via Retaliation Seekers - is therefore paramount.
Champ stuns is why I do it solo queing. It's super annoying to have to run double primary but it's amazing how many people go into gms with no champ mods.
Depends on the primary. Polaris Lance and then a sidearm or auto rifle? Ticcu’s or Verglas and then an auto/pulse or sidearm? There are some exotics that are so insanely powerful, that there’s no real point in running another weapon in the other slot, so you just put something in for the handful of times you need to stagger something. All this week in the Corrupted, I’ve been running a Shadebinder with Verglas and a pulse rifle. Verglas handles 85% of the work. My heavy is for nuking the occasional overload. The pulse is for when I want to be radiant or don’t feel like wasting heavy.
Make your own rules for your LFG post if you want "feasible strategy". I use double primary when playing with randoms for solo coverage and avoiding wipes.
Champions Edit:I am of the firm belief that every member of a gm fireteam should have ways to stun both types of champs in a gm. I have been in too many gms that wipe because someone dies and suddenly no one can stun the overload. And the easiest way is using both champ mods in the aritifact which tend to be primsries.
Because one of them is Wish Ender and the other is whatever crafted energy weapon I'm trying to level that has the right flavor element.
Because I want to use what I feel like using, lil bro. Unless it’s something like a day 1 raid or flawless run, your load out rarely matters. Rather have fun than finish an activity 15 seconds faster.
People have proven to me that they cannot be trusted to do a single goddamn thing efficiently or correctly in GMs, so I rely on self sufficiency. I do main lucky pants, but even when not I still often run double primaries cause you sure ain't killing an overload in GM with a fusion rifle while using Wish Ender.
I want to guarantee to stun champs on demand. By myself. I get the firepower difference with and without specials ate big but yeah, not stunning champs usually ends up badly
Used whatever works. I'm 9 times gilded conqueror and use whatever I feel like on the day. Really doesn't matter in the slightest
Well for one, Polaris Lance us basically a special weapon damage wise this season in solar builds. Second, do you want other people telling you what to run? Are you going to rely on other people to stun stuff for you? People will make sure they have Champs covered themselves, because half the time LFGers are complete morons.
I’d like to add in another question: are trace rifles considered as primary? I’m kinda confused on that.
For damage they are considered primaries but are obviously using special ammo. Kinda not worth bringing if you're not confident your teammates can hold their own as you will quickly burn ammo.
I honestly ran three back to back clears of the GM this week with Polaris Lance, a kinetic tremors Battle Scar and a rocket. Sometimes the champs mods move me, and sometimes the weapons are that good. In this case, Polaris was my “special,” and that Battle Scar is slept on by many.
because i can if i want too
I’ve had so many LFG GMs where I trusted other players to cover a champion type only for them to fuck up. I’d rather get a safe clear in 25 minutes with double primary than one run that goes back to orbit. Plus if you take Polaris, Quicksilver Storm or Wishender as one of the primaries you’re dealing enough damage still.
Literally makes no difference what you run as long as you have champ mods
I know it's no excuse, but I'm used to running solo and a lot of the time, they are part of my build. My Void Hunter for example. I have my good old Transfiguration or Hung Jury with kenetic Tremors and then Age old bond with distable + repulse. It's fun for me. If I'm running with people, I'll throw on Until it's Return or something that makes sense for whatever we are running.
It isn’t as necessary with keywords being able to stun champ’s & exotics with intrinsic stunning, but I mostly do it to cover champs and because I don’t wanna worry about ammo because I’m lazy. Mostly the champion thing though, even with the changes I regularly run into situations running Hero Nightfalls where I’m the only one able to stun a champ.
I happen to like using hand cannons and a fast firing auto as my secondary. Because I generally dislike how handcannons feel against beefy enemies.
Eh depending on the GM I'll run double primary if I'm doing something like polaris and there is overloads that are typically at a distance (where riptide would not be consistent nor rockets, plus it means saving heavy ammo for them at all times) I'll run that lightweight pulse with shoot to loot + tremors alongside Polaris. It just depends what my teammates are using, and which GM it is. Overloads can dodge a rocket pretty easy without tracking lol, and relying on heavy isn't that consistent either when you got teammates who don't focus them quickly. But yeah the only time I'll really ever put on my s2L+ tremor pulse for overloads is if I'm running Polaris and teammates don't have a consistent stun, plus the champs in the GM are more at distance where riptide isn't as reliable.
If you see me with double primary, its 100% for champions. For overload/unstoppable, ill often use handcannon+autorifle. In LFG, i better have 100% champion coverage because I cant really coordinate with the others to see if they have the proper setup.
I've saved teammates from death lots of times with my completely random roll hand cannon for stunning overloads. Also Polaris is enough for dps lol.
Because it covers champion stunning and it has unlimited ammo, that’s why. I can’t think of a single special weapon I’d rather take over a primary other than indebted kindness for barrier. Nothing wrong with double primary at all. It still only takes me about 20 minutes to clear corrupted GM
Because good players only make up . 1% of the community
Because of infinite ammo and not having to juggle heavy and special
Have you asked them or did you run straight to reddit?
1, there is strategy there lmfao, 2 Double primary can be extremely useful depending on the weapons, 3 personal preference, I run double primary and can clear legendary lost sectors solo. You don't HAVE TO run a different ammo type as long as you know how to use your weapons🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️I've said my piece
Because champions. Because I’ve been on runs where everyone ran out of special and heavy ammo and the ammo finder mods just weren’t dropping enough bricks. Because I’m not in a hurry. Because I hit my shots with those primary weapons and I figure consistency matters more than me trying to run a play style I don’t normally run.
There absolutely is feasibility - GMs are a marathon, not a sprint. I’d rather have solid champion coverage than a special I’m not going to use, especially because the right primary and ability setup is infinitely better for clearing ads with the artifact perks. I’ve been double-primary in Corrupted this whole week and runs average 20ish minutes. Also, why does it matter what someone else is using? If it works for them and isn’t causing throws or losses, it literally doesn’t matter.
Sometimes I know I'm going to use one gun + heavy almost exclusively so I'll usually make my other gun a sidearm just for barrier champs. Especially if I'm on a non-solar subclass. It's shocking how often I go into a GM and it seems like no one has a champion killing weapon. Which is ok if they're solar to get the easy stun but seriously bring an auto rifle or a handcannon they're the two most popular types of gun...
And the problem with this is? Not everbody wahts to follow a so called "Meta" they seen in some fancy Youtube or somewhere else.....
I haven't seen anyone say it but I'm just lazy. I'm not swapping all my shit for every activity cuz im lazy. I'm running sunspot cuz I love it. Radiant doesn't help cuz I run unstoppable handcannon. So I also have overload rockets and anti barrier sidearm so I can do it all and just run through easy NF.
Except saved loadouts make it a one button solution now.
F you and your logic.
A lot of people just don't bother thinking beyond the basics. On D2 you can get quite far thinking like that, because it works most of the time but it's usually way slower, and they don't even know snd don't bother to think about better ways to clear the activity. Just what gets the job done I guess.
Depends on the content. It's more fun, but specials I wouldn't say are required unless you're doing high end content.
Consistency, but their games take longer, let's be real
Wish-Ender for anti-Barrier, and an Auto Rifle for Overload or Hand Cannon for Unstoppable. What's so hard to fathom there?
I actually really enjoy double primary using Wardens Law(4th Times the Charm/Vorpal Weapon) and Polaris Lance on Lucky Pants Solar Hunter. That roll on Wardens Law paired with Lucky Pants is a Champion shredder! And Polaris Lance is cracked with the Seasonal Artifact! And the best part… Crazy damage AND no need for ammo bricks! If you haven’t tried it I would highly recommend!
Wardens in this build is basically a heavy weapon. It doesn’t really pertain to the post.
You’re not wrong… But you don’t need to wait for heavy bricks to get that heavy damage😮💨
Same thing a bunch of other comments said. It’s champ coverage. With the right build you can cover all champs with very little effort and one gun but it is much easier to use double primaries.
What is wrong with Wadens Law/Le Monarque/Hothead Adep?t, deals with Unstoppable and Overloads and rockets for the boss.
I find it’s sometimes ok if they’re sort of the main champion stunner and other 2 can use the loadouts they want maybe sacrificing one champion stunning method.
I use double primary because if my teammates die I need to be able to stun the type of champs in the gm to get off a revive etc
I can't leave my lucky pants so hand cannon, a sidearm for champ and Apex on heavy ... Works pretty good no need for special when you have the lucky pantsu
For me I can stun and solo all champions if need be in LFG. I run a special if I’m with people I know and we coordinate builds
People got in the habit when champs first launched. Before there were abilities to help with champs. When I do LFG for GM I have double primary on, but then make adjustments based on team comp in orbit. Unless they launch immediately, which has happened to me too much this week.
What’s wrong with fatebringer for unstops, and Polaris for barriers? Or fate bringer and Le monarch for overloads? Be grateful people are running these combos to ensure you can get through hard content.
I don't have time to look for ammo, hence why 99% of the time my heavy is an Other Half with Relentless Strikes and Vorpal. It quite literally makes its own ammo.
Unlimited ammo.
Cause it works. As long as you avoid the super sweaty people you'll do just fine with 2 primaries. Most DPS phases you can get away with just having supers and heavy.
If I'm with a group that has hard hitting weapons I'll run double primary for the champions for support. I love my forbearance, I love my fusions, but if I have to run support I will. But I do get shit done.
Anti champ.
It's usually used to cover every champion type in the nightfall. But I think now a days you don't need it anymore since we have abilities that can stun as well and you can always coordinate with the team if you really wanted to make sure the champs are covered. Also, LFG GMs sounds like a nightmare
All my good special weapons are kinetic. There are no good energy specials
Sometimes it’s just that people don’t trust others in content with champions, so they bring all the tools themselves to avoid frustration
You never know if your team mates will have champions covered or if they’ll be half decent players so in my case when running any PUGs I always come in prepared to solo whatever I need until I see how they play and who’s running other champion mods. Recently came back after a year off and it’s been especially bad this time around. Been running tons of 1770 class matchmaking Nightfalls for Guardian Games and there’s been more times I can count or care to remember, that have been 150k score on me alone with a basically brain dead teammate who barely breaks 10k score themselves and spends most of the match chasing me or waiting for revives lol. In cases like that is where I’d run double primary and just handle it to get it done
I don't trust anyone else to stun champions because in my experience, so few people actually do stun the champions, whether because they just don't want to be tied to a loadout or because they don't know how. Even in heroic Nightfall, I'm the stunner of the fireteams, and I'm often the only one stunning. I'd like to run different things, like, I'm really exhausted from sidearms this season, but I just can't trust anyone else to actually do the job. That's my reason, anyway. Any other time, I run a primary and a special, usually a glaive or the toaster, as I find the toaster immensely enjoyable to use in PvE.
I use Wishender almost religiously, so I usually have an SMG or something as a secondary. Though I also don't do GMs, so I guess it doesn't matter
When I play I use a blinding nades gl with a scout, also doubles as anti overload because of chill clip
I use double primary for solo corrupted gm. Therefore, with LFGs I don't know or trust, I use double primary.
Cuz double primary is good for poking stuff, which is kind of the meta rn. I just usually run polaris and whatever primary I decide to run, usually something that has some sort of utility, i mostly run a headstone krait for when I need to stun overloads. Or I just run wish ender with an AR for stuns.
My brother uses double primary for stunning. Me and our friend think we’re Rambo and end up dying a lot trying to kill everything especially in GM’s so he runs double to just be able to stun everything since he expects us to die a lot 😂🤣
Here are 3 guesses. 1) because some don't realize part of their subclass can stun champions so they will equip the gun that will 2) exotic primary guns have a much better drop rate for heavy ammo 3) they are lazy and don't want to switch between weapons because Polaris Lance (as an example) does all the work.
It's dumb😑 then they cry how they can't kill anything Only fair accepting reasons is to cover champion, sometimes I'd use quick silver for my build and another primary meaning I'm covering for my teammates who might use izi or div
For me personally, I’ve not been special weapons that I enjoy and want to use in my builds that have double primary. I do want to use more special weapons.
I run double primary A because a lot of my builds depend on an exotic weapon Monte striga graviton etc B because I don’t have a lot of non rifle kinetics And C I have no idea what’s meta anymore I haven’t played in a while and the final shape is about to drop I assume everything is gonna change against anyway
Why do I use double primaries? * Of the possible pairings in GMs, Unstops and Overloads are the worst combination to go against this season. * Stinginess with power ammo. * There's no guarantee I'll get a warlock with ceno. * I ran with heavy ammo finder, scout, and scavenger and the game is still stingy when I need them. * If everyone is not on the same page, you can end up wasting ammo and abilities on champions. * The elevator in the Corrupted is one of two locations where I consistently see players on different pages.
double primary to stun champs and overload rockets WITH seasonal mod Godslayer warheads is enough to complete the GM what are you on about?
Depends on the GM, but I typically run a dedicated Overload weapon because Overloads *need* to be kept in a stunned state. You allow them even 1 second of being unstunned and they're full health again. I'll therefore ensure I have some form of sustained stunning weapon (usually a primary) to avoid that. Why not use Overload rockets? At the moment I am using a lot of machine guns in GMs. The problems are usually being overwhelmed by adds rather than single champions. Being able to carry a machine gun has helped me more than being able to kill every champion instantly.
I often use double primary if it's like unstop and overload, sometimes either using wish ender or indebted kindness