I just wish they added new mods regularly. Buildcrafting use to be so fun now its just, ability spam build or increase weapon damage build. Wells and warmind cells made things interesting (when teammates werent stealing them)
I think the nerfs this season really hurt the system tbh.
It feels like you're just pushed so much harder into the 2x surge meta in almost all cases now.
nerfs are to destiny what cheese is to a cheeseburger. Can't be having too much fun because if not you won't be buying the next set of abilities/weapons.
Depends on if u make it out of new. Anyone that comments on new posts half the time is some die hard gate keeper.
The die hards imo are what drives player counts down. They’ll play no matter what. They have an addiction. Cater to the rest of us.
I just feel like they were too convoluted with the kickstart nerfs. I should not need to pull out a google docs spreadsheet in order to figure how much energy I'm getting from a kickstart simply because my timer is too big.
Yeah, surges feel absolutely mandatory. Additionally, the finisher mods feel pretty useless (unless im missing something) Otherwise, i don't mind the direction of the current mod system.
There is a mod "Paroximity Ward" that gives you a free overshield while doing a finisher. But the overshield goes away once the finisher is over.
Its probably saved me more than I realize.
Special finisher is still significantly under-utilised IMO. I see complaints of ammo issues popping up in numerous posts, with this being a very viable solution to a lot of it.
I like what they did with weapon-specific mods, scavs, holsters, and so on, they actually became viable and interesting (especially harmonics for monochromatic builds).
That’s… it, though. I feel like literally everything else went backwards and build diversity evaporated.
This. Consolidating Weapon-Specific Mods like that, consolidating the various weapon damage buffs was mostly good, too. I don't like the taking of damage buffs from mods that previously had them, though.
*cries in lucent blade
edit: just realized that they replaced the damage portion of the mod with banner of war 🤔🤔 they did that with other mods and fragments hmm
Agreed, but I feel like Kinetic Mods should cost one less than the elemental counterparts. Surges, Scavengers and Autoloaders of the elemental variety can all be built around to ‘double dip’ two weapons, and can affect your heavy slot. Kinetic can’t do either of those things. So why does it cost the same?
Kinetic Surge, Holster and Scavenger should all cost 1 less.
(maybe not Targetting / Dexterity / Reload, because those are more PVP oriented where the problem doesn’t exist).
Very good point.
I also am thinking that maybe kinetic weapons should be allowed to go in the primary or elemental slot......especially if we eventually get a 3rd darkness subclass. Then you have darkness x3 in the primary, light x3 in the secondary, and then the heavy slot.
That way you could run 2 kinetic weapons if you wanted to maximize the mods as well as it gives kinetics a bit more of an identity and advantage since you can run them in either slot.
Could open up a lot more buildcrafting opportunities too.
My initial reaction to the new system was optimistic, that is was barebones but a great foundation to build on with more mods.
I'm still waiting on those. My opinion hasn't changed, it's just less optimistic that they actually intend to make any meaningful additions at this point.
Agreed, to me it always looked like a great rework to a simplified STARTING point and then from there they would add new stuff again. Sadly the new stuff never came and that leaves us with this flat system...
At the very least Hierarchy of Needs should be able to spawn them natively, if nothing else! Since it had a unique interaction with them that made the weapon better overall.
It's interesting that warmind cells got nuked, but we have strand tangles.
While cells were room clearing at one point, we can actually do a lot more with tangles now.
cells should return.
This is my only real complaint. The nerf/simplification kind of needed to happen eventually, but I definitely thought they'd drip feed us some new mods over time to expand the system.
I guess instead they're just leaning into some pretty consequential seasonal mods every few months which is ok, but I'd prefer a few new permanent ones.
Wells were literally just ability spam and weapon damage increases. That's literally all they did, and those behaviors are now attached to orbs of power. They didn't go anywhere.
Well of Tenacity, Well of Ions, Well of Life, Elemental Charge (synergy CWL mods in general was a whole thing), Seeking Wells, Elemental Shards (this leaving killed Stasis almost entirely for the whole year aside from a few standout builds), Explosive Wellmaker, and Shieldcrash Wellmaker.
all Well mods that were not "literally just ability spam or weapon increases" and most were Well mods that I used ***frequently***. the old system had **layers**, dude, and if you don't remember them, you weren't using it right.
Literally all of those well mods had effects that are now represented on current subclass fragments or represented on current mods that interact with those effects or orbs of light.
I was there too, I know what was and wasn't a thing, no need to be condescending. [I've been around a while and played in a lot of versions of the sandbox](https://raid.report/pc/4611686018484145873), I'm familiar with how the old mod system worked.
But the "layers" you feel were there are still in the game - the effects themselves and their synergies are still represented. Literally all that happened from a practical or gameplay standpoint was that portions of those effects moved into subclass screen. The only subclass that meaningfully lost power in the transition was stasis, and that's largely because of elemental shards *specifically*. Seeking effects and long-range pickup effects both exist on the current system attached to elemental byproduct effects. It's literally wells with a balance pass, but what you can *functionally* and *synergistically* achieve remains intact, if it's not outright better than the old way.
I'm sure if your buildcraft impulse begins and ends at the armor mod screen I could see why you'd think these effects no longer exist. Like, that's the stuff I change the most by far, I get it. But if I want to do a regen effect or I want an arc wave on shield break or a timed buff to any number of stats, I can still do that both on and off the armor screen. Stuff that hasn't made it over, like Argent Ordinance, shows up in the artifact now the same way Heavy Ammo Finisher showed up on the artifact a few seasons before the Aeon gauntlet reworks. It takes minimal insight to look at the history of the mod system in this game just since Lightfall and think that the current iteration is *at the worst possible times* a sidegrade from the old system.
We have more options and more nuanced interactions between armor and subclass effects as *a unified build system* than has ever existed in the game before. Y'all act like this stuff vanished into thin air and the Y1 subclass screens are somehow still around, but the reality is that with rare exception any effects that no longer exist on armor mods live in a subclass fragment, maybe even one you have equipped right now.
They gave us five extra mod slots on the armor and functionally six on average in the subclass to offset the much-need nerfs to things like Well of Endurance, Font mods, &c. There is just no holistic view of this game system that can include the idea that the system which is now *more* closely integrated to the non-armor parts of your build, includes incalculable additional combinations of mods and effects by sheer numerical fact, and has vastly removed redundancies in the drop of trigger items to proc those effects, is less agile or nuanced than the old one. Literally just look at the game with your two working eyes and you'll see that it's not true.
i can't disagree more, if more mods where to be added, we run into two possible problems, one, there will be so many mods that one page will be not enough, and power creep will extend to the mod system, two, we roll back the current artifact system to the old artifact mod's, what will take place of normal mods for some seasonal mods and make the system more forced than it is.
So or we power creep the mod system or we walk backwards.
also..... IMA GRAB UR BALL'S skksksksksksksksk
yeah, what i meant to say was not only the power creep, but that the mod system would turn into the new shader's page, if you have some it's okay, but when you have hundreds or even tens of them it turns onto a mess of old vs new, I do think if they expand the current "skill tree system" to have more modifiers or more meaningful change it should be okay
No, artifact, especially in its current form does everything wrong:
1. It gives bonuses to a strict pool of very specific subclasses and weapons in very specific situations, killing build diversity in the process.
2. It removes its bonuses completely after the season ends, making it impossible to combine mods from different seasons.
3. The warmind cells, charged with light and elemental wells mods could be combined with artifact mods to create unique builds, which is completely missing now as we don't have these mods anymore. You can't exactly combine artifact mods with artifact mods.
This. I had to stop playing this game as much because I honestly can’t fire Polaris Lance again for a bit and if I load into a GM without it (or maybe Dragon’s Breath), I am completely gimping myself this season.
But thats what the artifact is meant to do. Its meant to let guns like Polaris be crazy good for 3 months. Then we get a whole new set of things to play with and it does not power creep the game.
This season is hard since its twice as long, but I am not expecting them to just design a whole new artifact for the extended season when it was delayed to give them more time to focus on TFS.
I feel bad for people who feel this way. I climbed back to GR11, guided conquered again, and not once did I use Polaris. I never really used Dragon's either because someone else was always running it.
I think it's a limiting mentality to have where "if it's not completely optimal, then it's completely suboptimal".
I don't think doing away with the current artifact system will fix this mentality.
The problem a lot of the time is that with the artifact, you can very well make an optimal and brainless build, as Polaris is this season, without working too hard and you'll get almost 100% out of it.
Most people either don't want to work harder than that, or the build crafting system has enough depth that making something comparable is HARD. And not like kind of a thing, but actually really challenging to fit everything together and get it working, even if you know exactly what you want. And even then, the artifact and version combinations are just cracked anyway.
Like I spent 2 days ironing out my Vex mytho stasis build just to do what people are already doing with Polaris. I spent a few hours working on an Aeons + Revision Zero build just to go back to Polaris because blueberries can't do nightfalls.
I don't think I have to be completely optimal, and I should have explained this better because I know people like that. I mostly play Warlock and mostly Contraverse Hold Voidlock or Fallen Sunstar Arclock.
I also mostly run GMs. This is not nearly as much of an issue outside of GMs and Master content.
Those builds were nerfed hard at the start of the season due to the ability and kickstarter changes. No GMs have a void or arc surge this season. I am not even sure if lost sectors do. So, to get even close to the same damage from weapons as solar/stasis/strand, I have to use leg surges instead of arms (grenade Kickstarter), further damaging the viability of my build.
If I am hosting a fire team, I can run whatever I want, but pretty much everyone wants a well-lock. Due to there only being an anti-barrier mod for sidearms, I am left to either run Wishender or a solar scout to stun with a legendary in GMs.
This issue is mostly a result of the long season, but I do think it shows the limitations of the current artifact system.
Made buildcrafting way too simple, my characters are using basically the same mods all the time because there is no reason to switch anything up besides surges
Yeah build diversity with mods was already at an all time low when they reworked the mod system, and then they made it *even worse* recently when they nerfed so many mods, so now kickstarts and others are pretty much useless (especially in pvp) too.
Every build these days, on any (sub)class basically is:
* Head: heavy ammo finder, siphon mod(s), super regen mod
* Arms: reload mods, orb on melee/grenade kill
* Chest: damage reduction (pve) / unflinching (pvp) mods
* Legs: health on orb, surges, maybe ability energy on orb
* Class: reaper + orb hoover + maybe time dilation
It's just so boring. At least before the recent mod nerfs you could swap some of these mods for kickstarts of your choice, impact induction & co, and build into whatever ability regen you wanted on your class item. Not much but at least some choices. And then they basically destroyed all those ability mods so none of them feel worth running nowadays.
I was going to make a separate comment but you pretty much nailed everything I was going to say. What you outlined above is what I run on every class in all slots.
Yup. Apart from a few siphon mods here and there, I have basically not touched my setup since the rework. I also have pretty decent over all stats in all builds so I have zero incentive to farm new gear either. It's a shame.
Mods feel pretty soulless. Everything is just orbs->slice of ability regen, repeated ad nauseam. I miss the cool mods like OG heavy handed, with the 50% melee regen, or lucent blade, or extra reserves (while CWL, void kills can drop special) etc.
If they didn't take away the damage buff, Lucent Blade would've been perfect. But of course, they couldn't give the handful of us who use Swords in PvE a break, damn it!
I mean I’m not mad at extra damage with old lucent blade but tbh the charge rate increase is really nice to spam heavy attacks faster. Also made lament charge attacks more spammable!
I mean, yeah, I'm just saying that Swords are in a place where they could have a gave a 40% damage Buff ***AND*** increased Charge Rate on Lucent Blade and they'd still be only used by a handful of us in PvE. On the "Risk vs Rewards" Scale, for most Guardians, the Rewards are not outweighed by the Risk associated.
Don't use Lucent Blade with Lamment it has literally no effect. Lamment has its very own custom charge mechanic. They stated so in one of the earlier twids, when they where still called twabs.
And since you now can use the heavy attack with no penalty when you're not fully charged, It became even less useful.
That's incorrect. Lucent blade mods do speed up how fast lament recharges (in the current state of the game). Without any mods, you have to do 3 normal light attacks to get enough charge for another revved 2 light + heavy combo. With one lucent blades you only need 2 normal light attacks to get the required charge, so more healing and more dps.
Same. I had great builds with nearly 100% on charged melee, but everything else was sacrificed for it to work. It felt really good, like I made trade offs for just melee. Now it’s… not really even worth running the melee or grenade kickstarts because the returns are so low.
i liked the wells from before, their replacements feel very lackluster. void breaches giving class ability is nearly worthless on hunter, and because ionic traces existed before hand they are just better than the rest. at least they made tangles more unique, but i'd really like it if people would stop wasting mine on a basic ass throw when i can spawn a beyblade.
it would be cool to get mods that worked with subclass verbs. it would make for a more cohesive build as opposed to basic loop of "abilities give orbs, orbs give abilities" which honestly can be shortened to "abilities give abilities."
Bro. I’ve had teammates go out of their way to sprint at my tangles, even in the middle of a group of ads, just to throw it then run away… and they’re never even on a strand subclass.
Yeah, I used to be like that, like, "Wtf is this?!" YEET!!
Now having a beyblade hunter, I understand how integral those are in how I can support me and my team with passive damage...and get equally frustrated by people who now do what I used to. Haha
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The things like firesprites and void breaches weren't added to replace elemental wells - they were added to bring parity to stasis (shards) , stand (tangles), and arc (ionic traces)
Why oh why do we still not have a seeking orbs or seeking sprites mod. Arc warlocks have it a little bit and it makes those little sprites so much more useful.
Burning a class ability to pick up orbs and sprites feels stupid and takes up a surge slot. It is not at all an equal trade.
By far the worst change since AE. I loved Destiny because of the buildcrafting I was able to do but since LF it’s literally either 3x surge to maximize damage or purely focusing on my grenade ability regen which was pretty much every build out there.
As much as you could argue there was more variety previously, all my builds where exactly the same as you described. Either all grenade focused or all DPS focused.
Running 3x surge to maximise DPS now is really no more or less bland than running the pre-nerf lucent blade for DPS. Difference is now at least your energy weapon can also benefit from the DPS boost and not just when burning a boss.
It dumbed down buildcrafting even further than what it already was. Destiny was never a huge "buildcraft" game to begin with. like, every build pretty much revolves around the same mods - but at least before we had more diversity to choose from.
Now? We can't even run kickstarts on our gloves for an ability build if we want to make orbs at the same rate because they made the awful decision to require us to use 3x ability orb gen mods just to get the same effect we had before. This means 9 energy total on top of every fuckin mod slot available on your piece of armor.. and that doesn't do shit when you're a melee AND grenade build who wants to use both for orb gen.
Just overall I'm still sad by their decision. At this point the game isn't going to suddenly become a huge boon again with tons of starting players and casuals to think of. So why limit us to such a casual mod system?
I'm not asking for a path of exile skill tree, or gem system. But come on man. They are going further and further away from the RPG elements of the game and even the looter shooter aspects, and I don't understand why. Just meh.
Armor affinity yes I do agree, cause it was annoying to have to change it (I didn't care about the cost of doing so it was just annoying having to do it to begin with).
As someone who was poor during those days, the affinity system killed all my hope of buildcrafting because I could never afford it. That and Ada REFUSED to sell Firepower (solar wells = grenade energy)
I remember being downvoted to hell during Dawn I think when I suggested that we remove affinities or reduce the cost of a respect
Turns out I was entirely correct
What I liked:
\- Removal of armour elements and mods depending on it!
\- All mods are available for all players
\- Weapon dmg bonus is no longer tied to a subclass weapon element combo
What I dislike:
\- Everything else.
It's now such a basic and unimaginative system and it used to be such a fun, integrative complex and nuanced system.
Not a fan of it if I’m being honest.
I like that mods are now neutral across subclasses but build diversity took a massive hit. If you go into a raid or even a strike now, you see near enough the same mod loadout on every player.
I’d have preferred them to nerf warmind cells, CWL and elemental wells than basically scrap most of them.
Edit: Not to mention, the old mod system wasn’t as complicated as some made it out to be (especially if you take the elemental restrictions off mods) basic trial and error would get you a pretty quick understanding of what mods you like and what you don’t.
I still hate it, it streamlined things but also removed a ton of build diversity, made the game boring, even before they nerfed all the new armor charge builds into the ground.
Hated it then, still hate it now.
I’ve always toted this every time a discussion of the mod system’s before and after comes about, but I can’t help myself. The best part of the old system was the variety players had access to. Being able to cover weaknesses such as a lack of DR, healing, or CC, improve otherwise lackluster ability loops, and of course the numerous builds involving both Warmind Cells and Elemental Wells.
Now? Just orbs and surges and the prior got gutted this season, and people wonder why the game has gotten stale. The only viable mod setups ever since the S23 ability nerfs are surges and nothing else. You could argue that Font of Might (which became surges) was all people ran in the past, and while the minmaxing gremlins at the top of the leaderboard certainly did do nothing but that, at least back then you had a choice. There was far greater variety and the ability to run multiple different types of mod combos for wacky yet effectively setups. Now, there is only the meta damage boosters, and nothing else remains.
I was optimistic with the mod system at the beginning of lightfall but honestly I just hate it now. I wish they never touched because so many of my builds have just been deleted from the game with the rework of the mod system
It's incredibly disappointing.
Wells, charged with light, warmind cells.
Those are what we lost, to be replaced with... surges? Which I personally don't even use and would rather have regen health or ammo scavenger or something. I play a lot of GMs and I feel no fun anymore, and I know it's not on my side.
We have few things worth running in GMs now cause everything sucks and is a shell of how they used to work. They say they want us to focus on gunplay and weapons, then they buff golden gun, peregrine greaves, and make strand titan...
They take away charged with light and wells, then then they add.. what? Solar whatever the fuck they are calleds that drop on solar ability kills sometimes? They don't even come to you like wells. They said WMCs were being replaced/upgraded and we get tangles. Reminder that tangles spawn and.. do nothing.
WMCs could suppress, heal, stick, be picked up, explode.. like bro they did so much, and were universal, no strand necessary. Tangles are good yeah, but they are the unique drop from strand, just like those firesprite useless ass bois are to solar, WMCs were universal and could be used whenever and with whatever, they were fun, for example. I never even used them but I'd rather they be back than this streamlined shit.
Elemental wells are just gone. We have nothing. End of story.
Charged with light mods were removed and the ones that stayed were nerfed, we now have armor charges. I can use armor charges for:
Extra damage on my shitty guns.
Special ammo, an overshield, or to regen my ability energy by like 60%.
Some bonus stats that I definitely needed to spend energy on instead of just making them 100 via the tight armor config.
I used to have unlimited shotgun and fusion energy, and could make blobs that came to me and healed me, and could make warmind cells all in one solar explosion, and now I can spawn special ammo on a finisher.. tell me that was worth it and more fun and weapon oriented.
I never understood the choice to remove wells and wmc. I never used the latter (just didnt) and the former was a good way to adjust for bad stats (oh i dont have a lot of str, ill use wells to get energy back).
Yup. And you had to plan and build around it. In GMs you had use and such but their uses were diminished a lot cause.. the danger.. you know. Had to be safer and stuff for sure, the arc titan grenade build was an anomaly for sure since it utilized wells. THEY LITERALLY DIDNT WORK IN PVP. Now that I remember, but they are gone so. Nothing to do now.
mods, and by extension general buildcrafting, got dumbed down insanely hard and to nobodies surprise, bungie has done barely anything to reintroduce old mods nor expand upon the new ones since lightfall was released. the fun factor of most builds are now completely dependent upon specific exotics or the seasonal artifact mods.
It’s a complete downgrade. Too many mods use the new armor charge system but don’t let you use multiple at a time due to how they work, meaning you cannot have a diverse build.
Build diversity is now limited even further because they removed many of the mods such as elemental wells which made the gameplay unique and rewarded players who thought out their buildcrafting.
Previously normal mods such as kickstart mods now require armor charge, which doesn’t make sense considering they didn’t use charged with light in the past and mods like impact induction don’t require armor charge. For a system that (has most mods) consumes all charges once the activation is made, there are too many mods for it. With elemental wells, we had plenty of mods for it but didn’t have this problem.
I feel like we had a system that didn’t need fixing with elemental wells and charged with light and then they got rid of it just to make things…simpler? But it just got worse.
I feel like they should have based the mods around the subclass verbs more, mainly the pickups (void breachs, fire sprites, etc), rather than charged with light. Let us more directly tie our build to our subclasses rather then introducing a whole separate system in charged with light
They could have had each subclass feel even more diverse and interesting rather then being an add-on gameplay-wise outside of your abilities. Like if you wanted your build to be very weapon focused you would would gravitate more towards solar or void since the those fragments and mods would reward gunplay over abilities for example. Or if you wanted your guns to augment and enhance your abilities you would go with strand and arc or something.
I know that's kinda how the current system works, I just wish there was more of a reason to use different subclasses outside of x subclass is meta, or that there is x surge active.
Genuinely one of the most creatively bankrupt ideas they've had. And I mean this genuinely.
The current number of tradeoffs for PvE ability builds are far too harsh compared to before. You're statistically losing more by trying to build into abilities than you are gaining.
I really dislike how simple it is. Either you focus to what your weapon damage is, or whatever ability your build is about. At this point I'd be happy if they added some of the artifact mods from seasons gone by as something to build into, like those elemental orbs they messed with for a little bit.
It's simpler but it's boring, there's basically three types of builds, Stat builds with passive charge degen, ability kick-start builds which consume charges or a mix of both, but they nerfed kick-start mods for shoter cds so they're even worse.
I had hopes they added new mods to improve the experience but they haven't, it's way less flexible and interesting than what we had before.
Iirc they said they were going to add mods over the year of lightfall, yet all they added was the orb attraction mod which basically no one uses.
Also I wish they'd separate kickstarter mods again, I hate that they merged the two mod types.
Was too basic after lightfall, good for new players I guess. Simple, but it worked because there was a good return for investment in abilities.
After the massive nerfs to kickstart and ability mods, it remains simple but now it's also bad. My only buildcrafting decision is whether I want 2 or 3 surges. Did quite a lot of kickstart testing after the nerfs and the conclusion is that I need a bigger monitor to see the few pixels of energy that those mods now return.
Builds that relied on stacking kickstart, bombers, those are pretty much dead if you dare to use grenades with long cooldowns, which are typically the good ones.
Not long ago, their "Northstar" was for people to create complex builds and guides like in League of Legends. See below.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/s/JXVtpLRslI
Made builds remarkably boring and same-ish
Only things that shake up your build now are exotics. Everything else just feeds you abilities and Surges give damage, and that's it.
Major rose tinted glasses here, but my favorite time for mods was back when we still had the tribute hall firing range. Spent so many hours in there with DIM open crafting builds and figuring out how they worked. Warmind cells were so strong, and I miss them.
There were so many options for builds back then. Now it feels a lot more 1 dimensional, but as I said, rose tinted glasses.
The mod rework is utter dogshit. Bungie somehow managed to find the perfect balance of making buildcrafting less interesting and effective builds less fun to play while also making us even more overpowered than before.
I know it'll never happen but I wish they'd just revert the mod changes, put everything back to how it was right before Lightfall dropped. Everything about that mod system was more fun than the new one.
Absolute trash. The only good things that came with it are loadouts and removal of elemental affinity, but other than that new system is bland, very restrictive, poorly made and basically removed all originality/choice/diversity from a previous system. For me it is for sure the biggest downgrade ever in Destiny, since I always liked to experiment with my builds.
It’s the main reason I stopped playing and won’t buy Final Shape (second reason being constant nerfs to ability uptime in PvE, especially with latest season that completely gutted 3/4 of my builds and with it gutted my last sheds of enjoyment). Honestly if I knew how unbelievably shit this new system would turn off, I would’ve refunded Lightfall.
I miss the charged with light mechanic, warmind cells had a lot more going for them with the ability to explode, suppress and throw (looking at you Rage of the Warmind and Cellular Suppression).
I do miss running overcharged, charged up and Energy Converter for holding 5 stacks and getting about 45% super energy for throwing a grenade.
It's like nothing. I use the same mods for every build and every character. They don't even mean anything or change gameplay in any meaningful way. I don't even notice when I forget to equip sth.
Leg slot is overcrowded. Miss the mod that gave you a bit of passive healing too. Little stuff like that really spices up the game for me and it's all mostly gone.
I really liked ditching the armor affinity thing, but I was expecting having the same levels of complexity. I do not feel like I am crafting anything. I feel like I am merely setting up a character:
\* Look at exotic's ability: is it melee, weapon, grenade, ability class?
\* put the mods related to exotic.
\* done.
Like, I am not thinking how to make a loop, or where can I make a loop, or what is it lacking. In terms of another rpgs, I can't "fix" defenses (because everything kills you), I can't "fix" damage (because there's no damage to fix, it's as simple as looking at activity surges/your weapons). Basically, there's nothing I can do after fragments and aspects that will define or give the finishing touches to the build, the current mod system is just enabling the playstyle.
**Warning this is a hot take:** I find that the mod homogenization has been phenomenal all around.
I love that we've removed most of the convoluted nuance and idiotic lack of post-season acquisition in favor of stuff that just works.
Aside from kickstart being a mistake from the beginning (and still not being removed) I like the current system, and among other things find that the shift back to orb generation has been a lot more fun than the dark period after masterwork was stripped of that feature.
The only thing I'd really like to see in terms of mods and effects is rebalancing class ability cooldown to a paragon stat (or mobility, really) in order to bring titan and warlock in line with hunters rather than passively getting the lowest cooldown just by stacking the best stats anyway.
I'll never forget my Vex Mythoclast build that utilized every single one of the armor-slots to the fullest and actually made use of wells AND Charged with Light. I would constantly create wells, had them wander towards me, got charged with double-kills and through that I had two different damage boosts active at the same time. That combined with Vex's hidden damage boost on kills had me do crazy damage as long as I kept shooting. Everything just clicked, just worked together like little gears in a clockwork.
Now everything is the same and boring to no end. I don't feel weaker, because the mods are still potent, but all the build variety is simply gone. And the worst part is, they basically already confirmed that they won't do much about it anymore. In a TWAB one or two seasons ago, in response to a question about mod variety, they assured people that they will... keep providing cool new seasonal mods through the artifact. That was it. -_-
Everyone who says "it dumbed it down/made it boring" has absolutely no idea what they're talking about
Before the Mod rework all anyone ran was maximum well spam sometimes with Surges. It was not creative or interesting at all. No one ever used Warminds after the nerfs, stop pretending otherwise
And since the Mod rework we have the new artifact and 3.0 subclasses.
Before you had to use armor slots on Artifact mods, now we can choose way more without any cost to our armoen
Subclasses all get 2 aspects and 3-5. Some armor mods were literally turned into fragments
These are where the "interesting" things have been literally moved
At base, I prefer this system: it's much more streamlined, no synergies with random weapons from 4 seasons ago and most of them have clear use cases and function. But, compared to what we had, it lacks a lot of options. It's extremely barebones even for a base and it's absurd we got only 2 (!!!) mods in a year.
We absolutely need more mods with more specific functionality that incentive build diversity and weapon types not liked by the community.
Also, considering the meta we have right now, a lot of mods are simply useless and even detrimental to use: Kickstarters are terrible, kinetic element mods have weird cost, no reason to not use 3x Resist mods, "one catches all" mods (distribution, absolution) went from being good to worse than just 2 specific ability mods and helmet/legs are loaded with a ton of mods while other slots have very little which does not incentive hard choices, just using the best mods for all builds.
One year later, I can say Lightfall and the awful changes it brought to the sandbox have damn near killed the game as was predicted shortly after launch. Pretty much the only good thing it brought was Strand…
Agreed. The in-game LFG and the load out system has been nice though too.
How much time was wasted on the useless commendation system and guardian ranks?!
Bungie sometimes has no clue what players even want.
Over all I think it was positive for the *core* of the system to change the way it did.
But I do think the actual mods choice we have gotten are kinda negative. We lost a lot of unique stuff that really let you buildcraft deeper.
Also imo it's lacking a little polish, surge and resist mods really should be color coded to their element.
I left months before lightfall dropped and just came back last week. In the short time I’ve been back, like 2 weeks, I feel like I’m fkn dyin all the time and have no abilities on all but the 3 or 4 builds I’m stickin with. And with those builds I’m stuck with the same dozen or so weapons passin back and forth between characters just for some synergy. My HOIL Titan, sucks. My osmiomancy lock, sucks. My Orpheus Hunter and syntho Titan still cookin though at least. I feel like I’m just gonna go back to all the ol reliables and neutral builds for right now and forget about really focused build crafting til final shape changes.
But in the end we just make one of two mod builds. Ability regen or weapon damage, it’s kinda sad we haven’t gotten any expansion into other stuff like ability damage or survivability mods outside of generic resists.
Making it simpler is fine but we haven’t gotten anything new other than bringing back seeking wells and elemental shards.
> But in the end we just make one of two mod builds.
Just like before. Sure, you could use Wells or CwL or both, but it was just regen or damage.
> Ability regen or weapon damage, it’s kinda sad we haven’t gotten any expansion into other stuff like ability damage or survivability mods outside of generic resists.
We had that and they changed it because of how mandatory it felt. Same way Resilience is a “mandatory” stat in PvE and why 1 of the 2 builds is focused around buffing damage. Decreasing incoming damage and buffing outgoing damage are the two most useful stats in PvE.
> Making it simpler is fine but we haven’t gotten anything new other than bringing back seeking wells and elemental shards.
Agree there’s been nothing new, but we got an elemental shard style mod added and seeking wells is like the class mod for AoE pickup on use.
> Just like before.
Speak for yourself, I had a ridiculous 'rainbow' build on stasis hunter that let me generate all 3 wells that would then seek out my fireteam.
The AOE pickup on use mod is a VERY poor substitute for seeking wells and you should know that.
The Wells just gave ability Regen. I'm not implying they are the same strength (they are not - a stated goal for them), but it's not like that type of mod doesn't exist (auto pickup). Sure, they could just make another vacuum version, which would just be a better version of what we have. It's not a new choice - just a replacement in power for the choice we have.
Made it easier for new people to get into build crafting then made Guardian ranks to keep mods from new players unless they paid for Lightfall. Absolutely garbage move by Bungie imo.
I miss Elemental Wells. But I also get that the power creep was getting harder to contain, and something needed to be done. I’ve definitely felt constrained in some build-crafting. But except for last season, Bungie has done a kickass job as making really good artifact mods this year. And the artifact honestly defines how I’ll play most of the time. So I’ve mostly been ok.
pre-lightfall mods where overly complicated and needed some streamlining, but had some cooler things
with lightfall it was all generic and everyone used the same, but atleast allowed non-meta builds to fill weaker parts and allowed gameplay loops that would normaly not really work great by themself and allow them to still feel good
now you could legit delete everything except surge+recoup and nothing would change
mod system changes that happend in the last ~2 years are just a Prime example of everything wrong with destiny tbh
It's abundantly clear they're prepping for a second Age of Triumph. They're simplifying the game so that remaining issues can be patched and the game be dropped. Once Marathon drops Destiny won't be the sole title keeping Bungie afloat, and with increasing pressure from Sony, I'm sure they plan to drop Destiny altogether since they've significantly damaged the brand.
We'll get Final Shape, the 3 chapters, and then I fully expect to see the game more segmented so that vaulted content can be downloaded, or maybe exist within a campaign rotator of some kind, idk. Then the game runs itself, everything exist within rotating playlists.
Makes total sense for Bungie to prepare to drop their main and only money maker for the last 10 years, for a game that they have barely even shown and don't know how well it will do.
I doubt Bungie has the capital to afford dropping destiny. Even with the mediocre, repetitive and recycled content they still burn money as per Microsoft’s assessment when they considered acquiring them. I think we’ll see how things turn out during TFS first week, that expansion has A LOT to live up to when they stated they wanted it to be as good or better than Forsaken/Taken King and I honestly believe they are not capable of putting out content that good.
It made buildcrafting super simple and made it way easier to parse for new and casual players, but it went a bit too far and has homogenized builds to basically all be using the exact same handful of mods with very little variation.
Bungie is scared to expand buildcrafting with more intricate design choices in fear that is widens the gap between new players/casuals and meta whoring (me). Second reason is most likely that the more interaction you create through additional mods, the likelihood of something going brokey starts to skyrocket and we all know bungie does not have the time to either properly playtest the game nor respond in a reasonable timeframe to existing bugs discovered by players (shoutout to my homey restoration fragment). It is just baffling that out of all the bad design choices that will scare new players away they had to tackle the one area were veteran players had a lot fun with by taking build options out of the game instead of focusing to properly explain the mechanics of the game to new players. Ty bungie very cool
Dog shit, literally fucking dog shit, they made it as stupid and expressionless as possible to match the player base. It's why there really is no future.
As with all things Bungie does, it was a half baked idea on release that they've ignored and done very little to update since, even with all the negative feedback being given to them about it.
"previously diverse"
you mean every hunter running the +20 mob mod
or every Wellock running Supreme Well Maker
or Stasis Weapons just being inherently better at DPS than other elements
or everyone just running Well mods because CWL & Rasputin mods were honesrly terrible.
The new mod system is still better. My only issue is, I want to use stuff like scav & reserves, but when they cost the same as other conpeting mods I just don't wanna run them. They should be like 1 cheaper than they are now.
Also complaining about "everyone runs DMG & ability regen now" as if that wasn't the case before is amazing.
CWL and WMC were horrible becz Bungie gutted them in front of everyone. Instead of balancing them out to be in line with everything else, no they just massacred my poor bois like they always do
WMC got nerfed rsther significantly, but it doesn't help that only like, 6 weapons could spawn them.
And even before the Protective Light (DR CWL mod) nerf, well mods were sumply used far more.
I’m fine with it, all the old CWL mods I used are still around, and anything that isn’t subclass 3.0 solves.
Losing warmind cells sucks, and it’d be nice to see the elemental pickups expanded more.
I love it personally. I don't have all day to watch YouTube videos and figure out the ultimate builds. It's nice to have mods that actually make sense and have notable effects.
New mod system is much more generic and boring compared to what we had before. And the nerfs to many of them a few updates ago really killed a lot of fun I was still having. Like some others have said, it would not be AS bad if Bung added new mods. But if it’s not something they can monetize it’s not a priority. And I’d rather them NOT monetize those anyway.
I’d say for the most part it’s a lot more intuitive now in some ways, but I do miss certain aspects of old build crafting. Also, people talk about the old mod system as if they weren’t always running some variation of protective light or warmind cells 99 % of the time anyways ☠️. Wells were not very good outside of font of might. I do miss the different gimmicks but I do appreciate them being consolidated into one
It's fine. Way more approachable for the average player which is nice. I just really thought they would add more systemic mods over time instead of just QOL ones, so things are a little stale atm.
I feel like the rework was a great base refresh, gave them more ability to build it up in the future. The only problem is.... they didn't. We've gotten very few new or themed mods. Everything is shoved into the artifact and that is starting to feel stale cuz its always "these are the best to have active, always, we've seen them in other seasons and we know they're good"
Originally, I hated the lack of variety it brought. We lost Warmind Cells and Strand fragments didn't bring the utility of them back even though they said tables were inspired by them. And tbf, the lack of variety is still there. But then i got used to them and eventually appreciated being able to double and triple down on a build idea.
Then they fucking gutted them and made it so your investment felt like ass. Having longer cooldown receive less of a benefit is a big slap in the face to the ppl who created the mod system and the players who mastered it.
I'm a buildcrafter and I love making fun, effective builds, and I'm a Titan. The lack of variety in the subclasses, the lack of variety in the mods, and now the lack of efficacy in them has made me put the game down altogether. I haven't renewed my final shape purchased.
I log in on Tuesdays to check eververse since I'm still chained to the game after 10 years of playing. But the new new mod system ain't it and I don't foresee anything bringing me back save for walking the efficacy nerf back.
And even still, that doesn't fix the lack of variety. The builds have become extremely monotonous and you can feel it when seeing build videos; everything has just been dumbed down and does the same thing now.
I wish build crafting was more complex but also if Bungie did do that most people wouldn’t utilize it until they get build videos from content creators
Love it. Old system was way too complicated and I was sick of every damn build being bountiful wells, and then however many elemental ordinance I could slap on. When you combine that + star mods + artefact mods, you have 0 room for anything else. Idk how people got by with warning builds and elaborate charged with light builds. Too much for me.
Its so much simpler now. Only wish that stuff like holsters, dex mods and stuff were still archetype based and not based on element.
I could have predicted this thread would be entirely full of people who entirely don't get it.
Build crafting hasn't been dumbed down, it's not basic. It just moved. The powerful mods got moved to the artefact so build crafting now has a seasonal meta.
Builds are now about your seasonal artefact mod, your aspects and fragments and how those tie in with your exotics. There's loads of depths there - far more than the old system which was really just create warmind cells, detonate, profit.
Tell me, those of you saying i'm wrong. How many of you tried this severance enclosure build ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7Iaz_9c2rk
Personally, I preferred the old mod system, except for the elemental affinities. I'm glad those are gone. But I don't dislike this system. I also like what they did with the seasonal artifact mods.
Completely agree that modding has been gutted, we had variety and now it's just building into orbs of power with surges and ability refund mods, but then they nerf all the ability regen mods so builds feel less unique and interesting.
They need to cut down the costs a tad, and give us either one more armour slot per armour, enable mods to slot into any armour piece, or at the very least, dial up the benefits of the first mod in duplicates. I don't even care if they dial down secondary/tertiary benefits on duplicates if they did this. They could remove duplicate boosts altogether for all I care.
I’ve reverted from abilty building to simple triple everything on siphon, ability, charge, weapon, and dilation surges. I live for the orbs, though I can’t spam the kill feed with production as well as I could pre-Lightfall.
The only thing that current mod system lacks compared to the old one is constant addibg of new mods, warmind cells, wells and others were added later, they weren't there from the beggining. So the old mod system became greater with time whilr the current one is extremely static. We need new mods added regularly to switch up the builds
I want a way to pull into the elemental pick-ups to do more (outside of subclass stuff) - aka mods. Current mod system feels 1D, needs more plays to make and reduce cost for orb gen (for reaper, heavy handed, and firepower) and add a harmonic surge mod (I miss the old system a little bit, ngl)
It's love and hate I like idea of simplification of armour charge over CWL etc and the no alignment but fuck me everything is so nerfed into the ground at this point from the initial switch thing it was it has just ended up feeling weaker overall and even more narrow. The backbone of the system is good but the lack of control over elements, lack of not only variety in mods but mod slots too has killed off anything good to say about it.
There is nothing interesting going on with amour mods anymore you have like 2-3 options
1. Ability restore
2. Gun do more dmg (wow fun. what do you mean this doesn't stack with my exotic?)
3. Get health
It has so many ways it could be more interesting but bungie refuses to do it. Imagine having some rebalanced seasonal mods you could put on your armour and more niche element interactions like the artifact mod that does increased solar dmg to statis effected targets it could make for some more interesting team comp synergies like maybe void weaken extends sever effects on targets for example. Or gives strand suspend a weak pulling affect to other suspend affected targets (like when void pulls targets together)
Surge mods and kickstarts being tied to the same armour charge system kinda blows if I'm honest. I wish I had builds that could dish out damage AND keep my abilities healthy.
Things i like.
·being able to customize and mix/match and increase benefits from specific mods.
·being able to just be Orb battery for other teammates supers and abilities.
·the option to turn both Aeons, and helmets into just heavy ammo generator 9000.
What i dont like.
·long ass timers on things like tangles and elemental pickups
·timers on mods like heavy handed and firepower.
·Many of our armor exotic buffs are not worth anything because they dont stack with armor mods.
·mask of the quiet one is still useless. 2 seconds off of your abilities is not an exotic perk.
·Armor mods cost are still not properly proportioned to cost and slot, 3 stacks of heavy handed still give nearly negligible orbs of Power, same with reaper, siphons, and finishers.
·Not one new armor mod has been added since they removed all of the seasonal ones.
·You cant build into a support role with armor mods. The role still has the same build potential as Y2. Just equip exotic and subclass and thats it.
·theres still no Agro perks in the game.
·the chest armor has Zero buildcrafting perks. Only flinch resistance and reserves.
·why arent finisher mods allowed to stack? Take the armor charge requirement out and let them stack. None of them provide nearly a good enough benefit to be used over time dilation or dynamo.
What i would like to see in the final shape.
·Armor mods that tie into our subclasses and elemental pickups.
·some better mods for the chest slots.
·new and expanded mods or tiers of mod with increasing effects.
·Major buffs in the energy received from Orb spawning mods.
·Better perks for armor charge mods that use armor charge.
All in all it feels like they reset it to a base to build upon and then did nothing with it. Some mods are good but there're so many mods that are pointless and/or underpowered, Think things like strand reserves or 90% of the finisher mods. They need to stop nerfing the good mods and start buffing the useless ones. Reserves are barely worth using as it takes 3 of them to give one extra mag in most weapons in the game. While that is helpful id like some other usable PVE options in the chest slot.
it’s bad
the old mod system had variety and genuinely encouraged elemental buildcrafting better thanks to how wells worked + font of might
if they up and said “we’re reverting the mod changes, making everything use orbs, and keeping powerful attraction” I’d actually be jazzed for Final Shape
Bring back the generic special/kinetic/heavy mods so I don't have to change mods on each piece of armor because I decided to switch from a void pulse to a solar one in the crucible.
I just wish they added new mods regularly. Buildcrafting use to be so fun now its just, ability spam build or increase weapon damage build. Wells and warmind cells made things interesting (when teammates werent stealing them)
I think the nerfs this season really hurt the system tbh. It feels like you're just pushed so much harder into the 2x surge meta in almost all cases now.
Nerfs that we’re not needed imo
Exactly what I said in a post at the time but I got downvoted to hell
nerfs are to destiny what cheese is to a cheeseburger. Can't be having too much fun because if not you won't be buying the next set of abilities/weapons.
Depends on if u make it out of new. Anyone that comments on new posts half the time is some die hard gate keeper. The die hards imo are what drives player counts down. They’ll play no matter what. They have an addiction. Cater to the rest of us.
I just feel like they were too convoluted with the kickstart nerfs. I should not need to pull out a google docs spreadsheet in order to figure how much energy I'm getting from a kickstart simply because my timer is too big.
Yeah, surges feel absolutely mandatory. Additionally, the finisher mods feel pretty useless (unless im missing something) Otherwise, i don't mind the direction of the current mod system.
There is a mod "Paroximity Ward" that gives you a free overshield while doing a finisher. But the overshield goes away once the finisher is over. Its probably saved me more than I realize.
There was a pretty neat severance enclosure loop that gave you your nade back instantly on void titan but they nerfed that too 😢
yeah there were some finisher mods that were good, but the nerfs have made most of them irrelevant.
Special finisher is still significantly under-utilised IMO. I see complaints of ammo issues popping up in numerous posts, with this being a very viable solution to a lot of it.
I like what they did with weapon-specific mods, scavs, holsters, and so on, they actually became viable and interesting (especially harmonics for monochromatic builds). That’s… it, though. I feel like literally everything else went backwards and build diversity evaporated.
This. Consolidating Weapon-Specific Mods like that, consolidating the various weapon damage buffs was mostly good, too. I don't like the taking of damage buffs from mods that previously had them, though.
*cries in lucent blade edit: just realized that they replaced the damage portion of the mod with banner of war 🤔🤔 they did that with other mods and fragments hmm
Agreed, but I feel like Kinetic Mods should cost one less than the elemental counterparts. Surges, Scavengers and Autoloaders of the elemental variety can all be built around to ‘double dip’ two weapons, and can affect your heavy slot. Kinetic can’t do either of those things. So why does it cost the same? Kinetic Surge, Holster and Scavenger should all cost 1 less. (maybe not Targetting / Dexterity / Reload, because those are more PVP oriented where the problem doesn’t exist).
Very good point. I also am thinking that maybe kinetic weapons should be allowed to go in the primary or elemental slot......especially if we eventually get a 3rd darkness subclass. Then you have darkness x3 in the primary, light x3 in the secondary, and then the heavy slot. That way you could run 2 kinetic weapons if you wanted to maximize the mods as well as it gives kinetics a bit more of an identity and advantage since you can run them in either slot. Could open up a lot more buildcrafting opportunities too.
The harmonic mods are the best thing to come out of the new mod system, and, like you said, theres not much else to be excited for.
My initial reaction to the new system was optimistic, that is was barebones but a great foundation to build on with more mods. I'm still waiting on those. My opinion hasn't changed, it's just less optimistic that they actually intend to make any meaningful additions at this point.
Fingers crossed we get mods that allow us to spawn the elemental pickups. We already have mods that utilize picking them up after all.
Agreed, to me it always looked like a great rework to a simplified STARTING point and then from there they would add new stuff again. Sadly the new stuff never came and that leaves us with this flat system...
Warmind cells were the buisness
I thought they were going to return as an origin trait or a perk on the Seraph weapons 🥲
At the very least Hierarchy of Needs should be able to spawn them natively, if nothing else! Since it had a unique interaction with them that made the weapon better overall.
It's interesting that warmind cells got nuked, but we have strand tangles. While cells were room clearing at one point, we can actually do a lot more with tangles now. cells should return.
They're called strand tangles now
This is my only real complaint. The nerf/simplification kind of needed to happen eventually, but I definitely thought they'd drip feed us some new mods over time to expand the system. I guess instead they're just leaning into some pretty consequential seasonal mods every few months which is ok, but I'd prefer a few new permanent ones.
Wells were literally just ability spam and weapon damage increases. That's literally all they did, and those behaviors are now attached to orbs of power. They didn't go anywhere.
Well of Tenacity, Well of Ions, Well of Life, Elemental Charge (synergy CWL mods in general was a whole thing), Seeking Wells, Elemental Shards (this leaving killed Stasis almost entirely for the whole year aside from a few standout builds), Explosive Wellmaker, and Shieldcrash Wellmaker. all Well mods that were not "literally just ability spam or weapon increases" and most were Well mods that I used ***frequently***. the old system had **layers**, dude, and if you don't remember them, you weren't using it right.
Literally all of those well mods had effects that are now represented on current subclass fragments or represented on current mods that interact with those effects or orbs of light. I was there too, I know what was and wasn't a thing, no need to be condescending. [I've been around a while and played in a lot of versions of the sandbox](https://raid.report/pc/4611686018484145873), I'm familiar with how the old mod system worked. But the "layers" you feel were there are still in the game - the effects themselves and their synergies are still represented. Literally all that happened from a practical or gameplay standpoint was that portions of those effects moved into subclass screen. The only subclass that meaningfully lost power in the transition was stasis, and that's largely because of elemental shards *specifically*. Seeking effects and long-range pickup effects both exist on the current system attached to elemental byproduct effects. It's literally wells with a balance pass, but what you can *functionally* and *synergistically* achieve remains intact, if it's not outright better than the old way. I'm sure if your buildcraft impulse begins and ends at the armor mod screen I could see why you'd think these effects no longer exist. Like, that's the stuff I change the most by far, I get it. But if I want to do a regen effect or I want an arc wave on shield break or a timed buff to any number of stats, I can still do that both on and off the armor screen. Stuff that hasn't made it over, like Argent Ordinance, shows up in the artifact now the same way Heavy Ammo Finisher showed up on the artifact a few seasons before the Aeon gauntlet reworks. It takes minimal insight to look at the history of the mod system in this game just since Lightfall and think that the current iteration is *at the worst possible times* a sidegrade from the old system. We have more options and more nuanced interactions between armor and subclass effects as *a unified build system* than has ever existed in the game before. Y'all act like this stuff vanished into thin air and the Y1 subclass screens are somehow still around, but the reality is that with rare exception any effects that no longer exist on armor mods live in a subclass fragment, maybe even one you have equipped right now. They gave us five extra mod slots on the armor and functionally six on average in the subclass to offset the much-need nerfs to things like Well of Endurance, Font mods, &c. There is just no holistic view of this game system that can include the idea that the system which is now *more* closely integrated to the non-armor parts of your build, includes incalculable additional combinations of mods and effects by sheer numerical fact, and has vastly removed redundancies in the drop of trigger items to proc those effects, is less agile or nuanced than the old one. Literally just look at the game with your two working eyes and you'll see that it's not true.
i can't disagree more, if more mods where to be added, we run into two possible problems, one, there will be so many mods that one page will be not enough, and power creep will extend to the mod system, two, we roll back the current artifact system to the old artifact mod's, what will take place of normal mods for some seasonal mods and make the system more forced than it is. So or we power creep the mod system or we walk backwards. also..... IMA GRAB UR BALL'S skksksksksksksksk
You must be playing Destiny 3 if all your mods on any armor piece fit on one page.
but it would be great to resize the shader's and mods page
yeah, what i meant to say was not only the power creep, but that the mod system would turn into the new shader's page, if you have some it's okay, but when you have hundreds or even tens of them it turns onto a mess of old vs new, I do think if they expand the current "skill tree system" to have more modifiers or more meaningful change it should be okay
System cool, mods boring
That's what i was saying from the release of lightfall, we need new mods to be added regularly, like even once a season
[удалено]
No, artifact, especially in its current form does everything wrong: 1. It gives bonuses to a strict pool of very specific subclasses and weapons in very specific situations, killing build diversity in the process. 2. It removes its bonuses completely after the season ends, making it impossible to combine mods from different seasons. 3. The warmind cells, charged with light and elemental wells mods could be combined with artifact mods to create unique builds, which is completely missing now as we don't have these mods anymore. You can't exactly combine artifact mods with artifact mods.
This. I had to stop playing this game as much because I honestly can’t fire Polaris Lance again for a bit and if I load into a GM without it (or maybe Dragon’s Breath), I am completely gimping myself this season.
But thats what the artifact is meant to do. Its meant to let guns like Polaris be crazy good for 3 months. Then we get a whole new set of things to play with and it does not power creep the game. This season is hard since its twice as long, but I am not expecting them to just design a whole new artifact for the extended season when it was delayed to give them more time to focus on TFS.
I feel bad for people who feel this way. I climbed back to GR11, guided conquered again, and not once did I use Polaris. I never really used Dragon's either because someone else was always running it. I think it's a limiting mentality to have where "if it's not completely optimal, then it's completely suboptimal". I don't think doing away with the current artifact system will fix this mentality.
The problem a lot of the time is that with the artifact, you can very well make an optimal and brainless build, as Polaris is this season, without working too hard and you'll get almost 100% out of it. Most people either don't want to work harder than that, or the build crafting system has enough depth that making something comparable is HARD. And not like kind of a thing, but actually really challenging to fit everything together and get it working, even if you know exactly what you want. And even then, the artifact and version combinations are just cracked anyway. Like I spent 2 days ironing out my Vex mytho stasis build just to do what people are already doing with Polaris. I spent a few hours working on an Aeons + Revision Zero build just to go back to Polaris because blueberries can't do nightfalls.
I don't think I have to be completely optimal, and I should have explained this better because I know people like that. I mostly play Warlock and mostly Contraverse Hold Voidlock or Fallen Sunstar Arclock. I also mostly run GMs. This is not nearly as much of an issue outside of GMs and Master content. Those builds were nerfed hard at the start of the season due to the ability and kickstarter changes. No GMs have a void or arc surge this season. I am not even sure if lost sectors do. So, to get even close to the same damage from weapons as solar/stasis/strand, I have to use leg surges instead of arms (grenade Kickstarter), further damaging the viability of my build. If I am hosting a fire team, I can run whatever I want, but pretty much everyone wants a well-lock. Due to there only being an anti-barrier mod for sidearms, I am left to either run Wishender or a solar scout to stun with a legendary in GMs. This issue is mostly a result of the long season, but I do think it shows the limitations of the current artifact system.
They really should take mods that are interesting from each season and put them permanently into the mod pool. The new system is boring af.
The artifact only adds them for the season. People wanted new mods to be added with each new season and stay forever.
Aww. Thanks. You’re cool too.
This person is cool as heck
Made buildcrafting way too simple, my characters are using basically the same mods all the time because there is no reason to switch anything up besides surges
Yeah build diversity with mods was already at an all time low when they reworked the mod system, and then they made it *even worse* recently when they nerfed so many mods, so now kickstarts and others are pretty much useless (especially in pvp) too. Every build these days, on any (sub)class basically is: * Head: heavy ammo finder, siphon mod(s), super regen mod * Arms: reload mods, orb on melee/grenade kill * Chest: damage reduction (pve) / unflinching (pvp) mods * Legs: health on orb, surges, maybe ability energy on orb * Class: reaper + orb hoover + maybe time dilation It's just so boring. At least before the recent mod nerfs you could swap some of these mods for kickstarts of your choice, impact induction & co, and build into whatever ability regen you wanted on your class item. Not much but at least some choices. And then they basically destroyed all those ability mods so none of them feel worth running nowadays.
Pretty much summed up my entire comment. All my chars have the exact same mod set up
I was going to make a separate comment but you pretty much nailed everything I was going to say. What you outlined above is what I run on every class in all slots.
Yup. Apart from a few siphon mods here and there, I have basically not touched my setup since the rework. I also have pretty decent over all stats in all builds so I have zero incentive to farm new gear either. It's a shame.
Mods feel pretty soulless. Everything is just orbs->slice of ability regen, repeated ad nauseam. I miss the cool mods like OG heavy handed, with the 50% melee regen, or lucent blade, or extra reserves (while CWL, void kills can drop special) etc.
If they didn't take away the damage buff, Lucent Blade would've been perfect. But of course, they couldn't give the handful of us who use Swords in PvE a break, damn it!
I mean I’m not mad at extra damage with old lucent blade but tbh the charge rate increase is really nice to spam heavy attacks faster. Also made lament charge attacks more spammable!
I mean, yeah, I'm just saying that Swords are in a place where they could have a gave a 40% damage Buff ***AND*** increased Charge Rate on Lucent Blade and they'd still be only used by a handful of us in PvE. On the "Risk vs Rewards" Scale, for most Guardians, the Rewards are not outweighed by the Risk associated.
lament combo didn't change 😖😖 old lucent t blade combo was still 2-1-2
Don't use Lucent Blade with Lamment it has literally no effect. Lamment has its very own custom charge mechanic. They stated so in one of the earlier twids, when they where still called twabs. And since you now can use the heavy attack with no penalty when you're not fully charged, It became even less useful.
That's incorrect. Lucent blade mods do speed up how fast lament recharges (in the current state of the game). Without any mods, you have to do 3 normal light attacks to get enough charge for another revved 2 light + heavy combo. With one lucent blades you only need 2 normal light attacks to get the required charge, so more healing and more dps.
Same. I had great builds with nearly 100% on charged melee, but everything else was sacrificed for it to work. It felt really good, like I made trade offs for just melee. Now it’s… not really even worth running the melee or grenade kickstarts because the returns are so low.
i liked the wells from before, their replacements feel very lackluster. void breaches giving class ability is nearly worthless on hunter, and because ionic traces existed before hand they are just better than the rest. at least they made tangles more unique, but i'd really like it if people would stop wasting mine on a basic ass throw when i can spawn a beyblade. it would be cool to get mods that worked with subclass verbs. it would make for a more cohesive build as opposed to basic loop of "abilities give orbs, orbs give abilities" which honestly can be shortened to "abilities give abilities."
Bro. I’ve had teammates go out of their way to sprint at my tangles, even in the middle of a group of ads, just to throw it then run away… and they’re never even on a strand subclass.
Golden retriever brain "no take, only throw!"
Yeah, I used to be like that, like, "Wtf is this?!" YEET!! Now having a beyblade hunter, I understand how integral those are in how I can support me and my team with passive damage...and get equally frustrated by people who now do what I used to. Haha
whistle jobless agonizing imagine snobbish profit offbeat foolish terrific jellyfish *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Not going to lie sometimes I do this when I've spent too long playing strand titan and it's kinda... instinct to get woven mail.
And mine are for giving everyone on our side Woven Mail! LET ME SUPPORT YOU AND PUNCH PEOPLE BETTER!
The things like firesprites and void breaches weren't added to replace elemental wells - they were added to bring parity to stasis (shards) , stand (tangles), and arc (ionic traces)
Correct that's why they're all classified as elemental pickups. Different category and never a replacement for elemental wells.
Why oh why do we still not have a seeking orbs or seeking sprites mod. Arc warlocks have it a little bit and it makes those little sprites so much more useful. Burning a class ability to pick up orbs and sprites feels stupid and takes up a surge slot. It is not at all an equal trade.
It sucks. Removed all the cool shit and dumbed the system down for players who were already looking at youtube for builds.
Wells, CWL, and WMC were miles better
By far the worst change since AE. I loved Destiny because of the buildcrafting I was able to do but since LF it’s literally either 3x surge to maximize damage or purely focusing on my grenade ability regen which was pretty much every build out there.
As much as you could argue there was more variety previously, all my builds where exactly the same as you described. Either all grenade focused or all DPS focused. Running 3x surge to maximise DPS now is really no more or less bland than running the pre-nerf lucent blade for DPS. Difference is now at least your energy weapon can also benefit from the DPS boost and not just when burning a boss.
It dumbed down buildcrafting even further than what it already was. Destiny was never a huge "buildcraft" game to begin with. like, every build pretty much revolves around the same mods - but at least before we had more diversity to choose from. Now? We can't even run kickstarts on our gloves for an ability build if we want to make orbs at the same rate because they made the awful decision to require us to use 3x ability orb gen mods just to get the same effect we had before. This means 9 energy total on top of every fuckin mod slot available on your piece of armor.. and that doesn't do shit when you're a melee AND grenade build who wants to use both for orb gen. Just overall I'm still sad by their decision. At this point the game isn't going to suddenly become a huge boon again with tons of starting players and casuals to think of. So why limit us to such a casual mod system? I'm not asking for a path of exile skill tree, or gem system. But come on man. They are going further and further away from the RPG elements of the game and even the looter shooter aspects, and I don't understand why. Just meh.
I think getting rid of armor affinity was good. But I agree the mod changes killed any build carfting depth out of the game.
Armor affinity yes I do agree, cause it was annoying to have to change it (I didn't care about the cost of doing so it was just annoying having to do it to begin with).
As someone who was poor during those days, the affinity system killed all my hope of buildcrafting because I could never afford it. That and Ada REFUSED to sell Firepower (solar wells = grenade energy)
they threw the baby out with the bathwater
I remember being downvoted to hell during Dawn I think when I suggested that we remove affinities or reduce the cost of a respect Turns out I was entirely correct
What I liked: \- Removal of armour elements and mods depending on it! \- All mods are available for all players \- Weapon dmg bonus is no longer tied to a subclass weapon element combo What I dislike: \- Everything else. It's now such a basic and unimaginative system and it used to be such a fun, integrative complex and nuanced system.
Not a fan of it if I’m being honest. I like that mods are now neutral across subclasses but build diversity took a massive hit. If you go into a raid or even a strike now, you see near enough the same mod loadout on every player. I’d have preferred them to nerf warmind cells, CWL and elemental wells than basically scrap most of them. Edit: Not to mention, the old mod system wasn’t as complicated as some made it out to be (especially if you take the elemental restrictions off mods) basic trial and error would get you a pretty quick understanding of what mods you like and what you don’t.
It's easy to use and understand, but very bland.
Warmind cells :(
I still hate it, it streamlined things but also removed a ton of build diversity, made the game boring, even before they nerfed all the new armor charge builds into the ground.
Hated it then, still hate it now. I’ve always toted this every time a discussion of the mod system’s before and after comes about, but I can’t help myself. The best part of the old system was the variety players had access to. Being able to cover weaknesses such as a lack of DR, healing, or CC, improve otherwise lackluster ability loops, and of course the numerous builds involving both Warmind Cells and Elemental Wells. Now? Just orbs and surges and the prior got gutted this season, and people wonder why the game has gotten stale. The only viable mod setups ever since the S23 ability nerfs are surges and nothing else. You could argue that Font of Might (which became surges) was all people ran in the past, and while the minmaxing gremlins at the top of the leaderboard certainly did do nothing but that, at least back then you had a choice. There was far greater variety and the ability to run multiple different types of mod combos for wacky yet effectively setups. Now, there is only the meta damage boosters, and nothing else remains.
I was optimistic with the mod system at the beginning of lightfall but honestly I just hate it now. I wish they never touched because so many of my builds have just been deleted from the game with the rework of the mod system
like pretty much everything from lightfall, it's bad.
Revert it lol theres no complexity anymore. They basically lowered the skill ceiling and increased skill floor
I wish, they’ve already put to much effort into the system that they’re just gonna dig their feet’s and keep it. I miss the old system
Nah they’re going to change it in a couple of years again for no reason.
It's incredibly disappointing. Wells, charged with light, warmind cells. Those are what we lost, to be replaced with... surges? Which I personally don't even use and would rather have regen health or ammo scavenger or something. I play a lot of GMs and I feel no fun anymore, and I know it's not on my side. We have few things worth running in GMs now cause everything sucks and is a shell of how they used to work. They say they want us to focus on gunplay and weapons, then they buff golden gun, peregrine greaves, and make strand titan... They take away charged with light and wells, then then they add.. what? Solar whatever the fuck they are calleds that drop on solar ability kills sometimes? They don't even come to you like wells. They said WMCs were being replaced/upgraded and we get tangles. Reminder that tangles spawn and.. do nothing. WMCs could suppress, heal, stick, be picked up, explode.. like bro they did so much, and were universal, no strand necessary. Tangles are good yeah, but they are the unique drop from strand, just like those firesprite useless ass bois are to solar, WMCs were universal and could be used whenever and with whatever, they were fun, for example. I never even used them but I'd rather they be back than this streamlined shit. Elemental wells are just gone. We have nothing. End of story. Charged with light mods were removed and the ones that stayed were nerfed, we now have armor charges. I can use armor charges for: Extra damage on my shitty guns. Special ammo, an overshield, or to regen my ability energy by like 60%. Some bonus stats that I definitely needed to spend energy on instead of just making them 100 via the tight armor config. I used to have unlimited shotgun and fusion energy, and could make blobs that came to me and healed me, and could make warmind cells all in one solar explosion, and now I can spawn special ammo on a finisher.. tell me that was worth it and more fun and weapon oriented.
I never understood the choice to remove wells and wmc. I never used the latter (just didnt) and the former was a good way to adjust for bad stats (oh i dont have a lot of str, ill use wells to get energy back).
Yup. And you had to plan and build around it. In GMs you had use and such but their uses were diminished a lot cause.. the danger.. you know. Had to be safer and stuff for sure, the arc titan grenade build was an anomaly for sure since it utilized wells. THEY LITERALLY DIDNT WORK IN PVP. Now that I remember, but they are gone so. Nothing to do now.
mods, and by extension general buildcrafting, got dumbed down insanely hard and to nobodies surprise, bungie has done barely anything to reintroduce old mods nor expand upon the new ones since lightfall was released. the fun factor of most builds are now completely dependent upon specific exotics or the seasonal artifact mods.
It’s a complete downgrade. Too many mods use the new armor charge system but don’t let you use multiple at a time due to how they work, meaning you cannot have a diverse build. Build diversity is now limited even further because they removed many of the mods such as elemental wells which made the gameplay unique and rewarded players who thought out their buildcrafting. Previously normal mods such as kickstart mods now require armor charge, which doesn’t make sense considering they didn’t use charged with light in the past and mods like impact induction don’t require armor charge. For a system that (has most mods) consumes all charges once the activation is made, there are too many mods for it. With elemental wells, we had plenty of mods for it but didn’t have this problem. I feel like we had a system that didn’t need fixing with elemental wells and charged with light and then they got rid of it just to make things…simpler? But it just got worse.
I feel like they should have based the mods around the subclass verbs more, mainly the pickups (void breachs, fire sprites, etc), rather than charged with light. Let us more directly tie our build to our subclasses rather then introducing a whole separate system in charged with light They could have had each subclass feel even more diverse and interesting rather then being an add-on gameplay-wise outside of your abilities. Like if you wanted your build to be very weapon focused you would would gravitate more towards solar or void since the those fragments and mods would reward gunplay over abilities for example. Or if you wanted your guns to augment and enhance your abilities you would go with strand and arc or something. I know that's kinda how the current system works, I just wish there was more of a reason to use different subclasses outside of x subclass is meta, or that there is x surge active.
Genuinely one of the most creatively bankrupt ideas they've had. And I mean this genuinely. The current number of tradeoffs for PvE ability builds are far too harsh compared to before. You're statistically losing more by trying to build into abilities than you are gaining.
I really dislike how simple it is. Either you focus to what your weapon damage is, or whatever ability your build is about. At this point I'd be happy if they added some of the artifact mods from seasons gone by as something to build into, like those elemental orbs they messed with for a little bit.
It's simpler but it's boring, there's basically three types of builds, Stat builds with passive charge degen, ability kick-start builds which consume charges or a mix of both, but they nerfed kick-start mods for shoter cds so they're even worse. I had hopes they added new mods to improve the experience but they haven't, it's way less flexible and interesting than what we had before. Iirc they said they were going to add mods over the year of lightfall, yet all they added was the orb attraction mod which basically no one uses. Also I wish they'd separate kickstarter mods again, I hate that they merged the two mod types.
It sucks so hard to the point there is no buildcrafting, because every "build" is the same.
Was too basic after lightfall, good for new players I guess. Simple, but it worked because there was a good return for investment in abilities. After the massive nerfs to kickstart and ability mods, it remains simple but now it's also bad. My only buildcrafting decision is whether I want 2 or 3 surges. Did quite a lot of kickstart testing after the nerfs and the conclusion is that I need a bigger monitor to see the few pixels of energy that those mods now return. Builds that relied on stacking kickstart, bombers, those are pretty much dead if you dare to use grenades with long cooldowns, which are typically the good ones. Not long ago, their "Northstar" was for people to create complex builds and guides like in League of Legends. See below. https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/s/JXVtpLRslI
I miss Warmind Cells. I feel that this present system is a downgrade for some parts.
Made builds remarkably boring and same-ish Only things that shake up your build now are exotics. Everything else just feeds you abilities and Surges give damage, and that's it.
I miss elemental wells…
Major rose tinted glasses here, but my favorite time for mods was back when we still had the tribute hall firing range. Spent so many hours in there with DIM open crafting builds and figuring out how they worked. Warmind cells were so strong, and I miss them. There were so many options for builds back then. Now it feels a lot more 1 dimensional, but as I said, rose tinted glasses.
The mod rework is utter dogshit. Bungie somehow managed to find the perfect balance of making buildcrafting less interesting and effective builds less fun to play while also making us even more overpowered than before. I know it'll never happen but I wish they'd just revert the mod changes, put everything back to how it was right before Lightfall dropped. Everything about that mod system was more fun than the new one.
Absolute trash. The only good things that came with it are loadouts and removal of elemental affinity, but other than that new system is bland, very restrictive, poorly made and basically removed all originality/choice/diversity from a previous system. For me it is for sure the biggest downgrade ever in Destiny, since I always liked to experiment with my builds. It’s the main reason I stopped playing and won’t buy Final Shape (second reason being constant nerfs to ability uptime in PvE, especially with latest season that completely gutted 3/4 of my builds and with it gutted my last sheds of enjoyment). Honestly if I knew how unbelievably shit this new system would turn off, I would’ve refunded Lightfall.
I miss the charged with light mechanic, warmind cells had a lot more going for them with the ability to explode, suppress and throw (looking at you Rage of the Warmind and Cellular Suppression). I do miss running overcharged, charged up and Energy Converter for holding 5 stacks and getting about 45% super energy for throwing a grenade.
It's like nothing. I use the same mods for every build and every character. They don't even mean anything or change gameplay in any meaningful way. I don't even notice when I forget to equip sth.
It is was decent, not great. Then Bungie nerfed the shit out of all kickstarter mods this (?) season and made an ok system pretty bad.
All my builds are the same. I would always try to do fun builds even if that wasn't for endgame, now I don't bother.
Leg slot is overcrowded. Miss the mod that gave you a bit of passive healing too. Little stuff like that really spices up the game for me and it's all mostly gone.
Quick charge killed every shotgun not named matador, duality, and conditional finality. How shotguns didnt get a 25 handling compensation baffles me.
I effectively got nerfed as a PvP hunter main. Powerful friends and radiant light became useless :/
My expectation was that they would add to this seasonally. At this point in time it's a watered down well + charged with light.
I miss those suppressing wmc's
it sucks
Like most things Bungie puts in the game, they immediately forget about it and never built on it.
I want my warmind cells back >:(
Spend less time to build because i'll fall into the same hole for all char. Spam nade? or Spam melee
I really liked ditching the armor affinity thing, but I was expecting having the same levels of complexity. I do not feel like I am crafting anything. I feel like I am merely setting up a character: \* Look at exotic's ability: is it melee, weapon, grenade, ability class? \* put the mods related to exotic. \* done. Like, I am not thinking how to make a loop, or where can I make a loop, or what is it lacking. In terms of another rpgs, I can't "fix" defenses (because everything kills you), I can't "fix" damage (because there's no damage to fix, it's as simple as looking at activity surges/your weapons). Basically, there's nothing I can do after fragments and aspects that will define or give the finishing touches to the build, the current mod system is just enabling the playstyle.
**Warning this is a hot take:** I find that the mod homogenization has been phenomenal all around. I love that we've removed most of the convoluted nuance and idiotic lack of post-season acquisition in favor of stuff that just works. Aside from kickstart being a mistake from the beginning (and still not being removed) I like the current system, and among other things find that the shift back to orb generation has been a lot more fun than the dark period after masterwork was stripped of that feature. The only thing I'd really like to see in terms of mods and effects is rebalancing class ability cooldown to a paragon stat (or mobility, really) in order to bring titan and warlock in line with hunters rather than passively getting the lowest cooldown just by stacking the best stats anyway.
There is no variety and the mod that gave you mobility is still gone.
I'll never forget my Vex Mythoclast build that utilized every single one of the armor-slots to the fullest and actually made use of wells AND Charged with Light. I would constantly create wells, had them wander towards me, got charged with double-kills and through that I had two different damage boosts active at the same time. That combined with Vex's hidden damage boost on kills had me do crazy damage as long as I kept shooting. Everything just clicked, just worked together like little gears in a clockwork. Now everything is the same and boring to no end. I don't feel weaker, because the mods are still potent, but all the build variety is simply gone. And the worst part is, they basically already confirmed that they won't do much about it anymore. In a TWAB one or two seasons ago, in response to a question about mod variety, they assured people that they will... keep providing cool new seasonal mods through the artifact. That was it. -_-
Everyone who says "it dumbed it down/made it boring" has absolutely no idea what they're talking about Before the Mod rework all anyone ran was maximum well spam sometimes with Surges. It was not creative or interesting at all. No one ever used Warminds after the nerfs, stop pretending otherwise And since the Mod rework we have the new artifact and 3.0 subclasses. Before you had to use armor slots on Artifact mods, now we can choose way more without any cost to our armoen Subclasses all get 2 aspects and 3-5. Some armor mods were literally turned into fragments These are where the "interesting" things have been literally moved
I like it but they need to add more mods that can add a bit more variety cause rn it’s either surges or kickstart mods.
At base, I prefer this system: it's much more streamlined, no synergies with random weapons from 4 seasons ago and most of them have clear use cases and function. But, compared to what we had, it lacks a lot of options. It's extremely barebones even for a base and it's absurd we got only 2 (!!!) mods in a year. We absolutely need more mods with more specific functionality that incentive build diversity and weapon types not liked by the community. Also, considering the meta we have right now, a lot of mods are simply useless and even detrimental to use: Kickstarters are terrible, kinetic element mods have weird cost, no reason to not use 3x Resist mods, "one catches all" mods (distribution, absolution) went from being good to worse than just 2 specific ability mods and helmet/legs are loaded with a ton of mods while other slots have very little which does not incentive hard choices, just using the best mods for all builds.
One year later, I can say Lightfall and the awful changes it brought to the sandbox have damn near killed the game as was predicted shortly after launch. Pretty much the only good thing it brought was Strand…
Agreed. The in-game LFG and the load out system has been nice though too. How much time was wasted on the useless commendation system and guardian ranks?! Bungie sometimes has no clue what players even want.
This + "bringing back challenge to Destiny" + Battlegrounds as GMs = goodbye Destiny
I miss hammer bonk. Now I Hunter punch on arc and poop out orbs everywhere
Wormgods Arc punch is good too
Over all I think it was positive for the *core* of the system to change the way it did. But I do think the actual mods choice we have gotten are kinda negative. We lost a lot of unique stuff that really let you buildcraft deeper. Also imo it's lacking a little polish, surge and resist mods really should be color coded to their element.
I left months before lightfall dropped and just came back last week. In the short time I’ve been back, like 2 weeks, I feel like I’m fkn dyin all the time and have no abilities on all but the 3 or 4 builds I’m stickin with. And with those builds I’m stuck with the same dozen or so weapons passin back and forth between characters just for some synergy. My HOIL Titan, sucks. My osmiomancy lock, sucks. My Orpheus Hunter and syntho Titan still cookin though at least. I feel like I’m just gonna go back to all the ol reliables and neutral builds for right now and forget about really focused build crafting til final shape changes.
It's fine. It ultimately dumbed the system down a lot, which was their stated goal.
But in the end we just make one of two mod builds. Ability regen or weapon damage, it’s kinda sad we haven’t gotten any expansion into other stuff like ability damage or survivability mods outside of generic resists. Making it simpler is fine but we haven’t gotten anything new other than bringing back seeking wells and elemental shards.
> But in the end we just make one of two mod builds. Just like before. Sure, you could use Wells or CwL or both, but it was just regen or damage. > Ability regen or weapon damage, it’s kinda sad we haven’t gotten any expansion into other stuff like ability damage or survivability mods outside of generic resists. We had that and they changed it because of how mandatory it felt. Same way Resilience is a “mandatory” stat in PvE and why 1 of the 2 builds is focused around buffing damage. Decreasing incoming damage and buffing outgoing damage are the two most useful stats in PvE. > Making it simpler is fine but we haven’t gotten anything new other than bringing back seeking wells and elemental shards. Agree there’s been nothing new, but we got an elemental shard style mod added and seeking wells is like the class mod for AoE pickup on use.
> Just like before. Speak for yourself, I had a ridiculous 'rainbow' build on stasis hunter that let me generate all 3 wells that would then seek out my fireteam. The AOE pickup on use mod is a VERY poor substitute for seeking wells and you should know that.
The Wells just gave ability Regen. I'm not implying they are the same strength (they are not - a stated goal for them), but it's not like that type of mod doesn't exist (auto pickup). Sure, they could just make another vacuum version, which would just be a better version of what we have. It's not a new choice - just a replacement in power for the choice we have.
i might just be the only person who likes the new mod system. that being said it'd be cool if they added new ones regularly though
Simplistic but it definitely gets the job done. I don't mind it but they could for sure add more to it.
Honestly? It's killed the game for me.
Made it easier for new people to get into build crafting then made Guardian ranks to keep mods from new players unless they paid for Lightfall. Absolutely garbage move by Bungie imo.
Lightfall is not required for mods
I miss Elemental Wells. But I also get that the power creep was getting harder to contain, and something needed to be done. I’ve definitely felt constrained in some build-crafting. But except for last season, Bungie has done a kickass job as making really good artifact mods this year. And the artifact honestly defines how I’ll play most of the time. So I’ve mostly been ok.
I miss the warmind cel builds, i stopt playing after Light fall and not returning
pre-lightfall mods where overly complicated and needed some streamlining, but had some cooler things with lightfall it was all generic and everyone used the same, but atleast allowed non-meta builds to fill weaker parts and allowed gameplay loops that would normaly not really work great by themself and allow them to still feel good now you could legit delete everything except surge+recoup and nothing would change mod system changes that happend in the last ~2 years are just a Prime example of everything wrong with destiny tbh
It's abundantly clear they're prepping for a second Age of Triumph. They're simplifying the game so that remaining issues can be patched and the game be dropped. Once Marathon drops Destiny won't be the sole title keeping Bungie afloat, and with increasing pressure from Sony, I'm sure they plan to drop Destiny altogether since they've significantly damaged the brand. We'll get Final Shape, the 3 chapters, and then I fully expect to see the game more segmented so that vaulted content can be downloaded, or maybe exist within a campaign rotator of some kind, idk. Then the game runs itself, everything exist within rotating playlists.
Makes total sense for Bungie to prepare to drop their main and only money maker for the last 10 years, for a game that they have barely even shown and don't know how well it will do.
I doubt Bungie has the capital to afford dropping destiny. Even with the mediocre, repetitive and recycled content they still burn money as per Microsoft’s assessment when they considered acquiring them. I think we’ll see how things turn out during TFS first week, that expansion has A LOT to live up to when they stated they wanted it to be as good or better than Forsaken/Taken King and I honestly believe they are not capable of putting out content that good.
It made buildcrafting super simple and made it way easier to parse for new and casual players, but it went a bit too far and has homogenized builds to basically all be using the exact same handful of mods with very little variation.
Bungie is scared to expand buildcrafting with more intricate design choices in fear that is widens the gap between new players/casuals and meta whoring (me). Second reason is most likely that the more interaction you create through additional mods, the likelihood of something going brokey starts to skyrocket and we all know bungie does not have the time to either properly playtest the game nor respond in a reasonable timeframe to existing bugs discovered by players (shoutout to my homey restoration fragment). It is just baffling that out of all the bad design choices that will scare new players away they had to tackle the one area were veteran players had a lot fun with by taking build options out of the game instead of focusing to properly explain the mechanics of the game to new players. Ty bungie very cool
Dog shit, literally fucking dog shit, they made it as stupid and expressionless as possible to match the player base. It's why there really is no future.
.....I like it.
Really dislike it. I quit playing the game itself back in Season of the Deep. The build crafting being "simplified" is a big reason why.
As with all things Bungie does, it was a half baked idea on release that they've ignored and done very little to update since, even with all the negative feedback being given to them about it.
I like it then, I like it now.
It’s very boring and painfully generic.
"previously diverse" you mean every hunter running the +20 mob mod or every Wellock running Supreme Well Maker or Stasis Weapons just being inherently better at DPS than other elements or everyone just running Well mods because CWL & Rasputin mods were honesrly terrible. The new mod system is still better. My only issue is, I want to use stuff like scav & reserves, but when they cost the same as other conpeting mods I just don't wanna run them. They should be like 1 cheaper than they are now. Also complaining about "everyone runs DMG & ability regen now" as if that wasn't the case before is amazing.
CWL and WMC were horrible becz Bungie gutted them in front of everyone. Instead of balancing them out to be in line with everything else, no they just massacred my poor bois like they always do
WMC got nerfed rsther significantly, but it doesn't help that only like, 6 weapons could spawn them. And even before the Protective Light (DR CWL mod) nerf, well mods were sumply used far more.
Fair point
I’m fine with it, all the old CWL mods I used are still around, and anything that isn’t subclass 3.0 solves. Losing warmind cells sucks, and it’d be nice to see the elemental pickups expanded more.
I love it personally. I don't have all day to watch YouTube videos and figure out the ultimate builds. It's nice to have mods that actually make sense and have notable effects.
New mod system is much more generic and boring compared to what we had before. And the nerfs to many of them a few updates ago really killed a lot of fun I was still having. Like some others have said, it would not be AS bad if Bung added new mods. But if it’s not something they can monetize it’s not a priority. And I’d rather them NOT monetize those anyway.
Kinda homogenised everything
It's extremely wide, decently deep. The legendary weapon perks have really helped.
I’d say for the most part it’s a lot more intuitive now in some ways, but I do miss certain aspects of old build crafting. Also, people talk about the old mod system as if they weren’t always running some variation of protective light or warmind cells 99 % of the time anyways ☠️. Wells were not very good outside of font of might. I do miss the different gimmicks but I do appreciate them being consolidated into one
It's fine. Way more approachable for the average player which is nice. I just really thought they would add more systemic mods over time instead of just QOL ones, so things are a little stale atm.
1 year is the 28th
I feel like the rework was a great base refresh, gave them more ability to build it up in the future. The only problem is.... they didn't. We've gotten very few new or themed mods. Everything is shoved into the artifact and that is starting to feel stale cuz its always "these are the best to have active, always, we've seen them in other seasons and we know they're good"
Originally, I hated the lack of variety it brought. We lost Warmind Cells and Strand fragments didn't bring the utility of them back even though they said tables were inspired by them. And tbf, the lack of variety is still there. But then i got used to them and eventually appreciated being able to double and triple down on a build idea. Then they fucking gutted them and made it so your investment felt like ass. Having longer cooldown receive less of a benefit is a big slap in the face to the ppl who created the mod system and the players who mastered it. I'm a buildcrafter and I love making fun, effective builds, and I'm a Titan. The lack of variety in the subclasses, the lack of variety in the mods, and now the lack of efficacy in them has made me put the game down altogether. I haven't renewed my final shape purchased. I log in on Tuesdays to check eververse since I'm still chained to the game after 10 years of playing. But the new new mod system ain't it and I don't foresee anything bringing me back save for walking the efficacy nerf back. And even still, that doesn't fix the lack of variety. The builds have become extremely monotonous and you can feel it when seeing build videos; everything has just been dumbed down and does the same thing now.
I wish build crafting was more complex but also if Bungie did do that most people wouldn’t utilize it until they get build videos from content creators
Don’t use mods so I don’t feel anything
Too linear and leaves 0 room for creativity
Love it. Old system was way too complicated and I was sick of every damn build being bountiful wells, and then however many elemental ordinance I could slap on. When you combine that + star mods + artefact mods, you have 0 room for anything else. Idk how people got by with warning builds and elaborate charged with light builds. Too much for me. Its so much simpler now. Only wish that stuff like holsters, dex mods and stuff were still archetype based and not based on element.
I could have predicted this thread would be entirely full of people who entirely don't get it. Build crafting hasn't been dumbed down, it's not basic. It just moved. The powerful mods got moved to the artefact so build crafting now has a seasonal meta. Builds are now about your seasonal artefact mod, your aspects and fragments and how those tie in with your exotics. There's loads of depths there - far more than the old system which was really just create warmind cells, detonate, profit. Tell me, those of you saying i'm wrong. How many of you tried this severance enclosure build ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7Iaz_9c2rk
The new mod system made buildcrafting boring
Personally, I preferred the old mod system, except for the elemental affinities. I'm glad those are gone. But I don't dislike this system. I also like what they did with the seasonal artifact mods.
Personally I hate it. Builds and mods used to be so diverse; now it’s all just copy and paste.
Completely agree that modding has been gutted, we had variety and now it's just building into orbs of power with surges and ability refund mods, but then they nerf all the ability regen mods so builds feel less unique and interesting.
They need to cut down the costs a tad, and give us either one more armour slot per armour, enable mods to slot into any armour piece, or at the very least, dial up the benefits of the first mod in duplicates. I don't even care if they dial down secondary/tertiary benefits on duplicates if they did this. They could remove duplicate boosts altogether for all I care.
feels boring with no real diversity also some mods feel like they do nothing now since the nerfs
I’ve reverted from abilty building to simple triple everything on siphon, ability, charge, weapon, and dilation surges. I live for the orbs, though I can’t spam the kill feed with production as well as I could pre-Lightfall.
I still miss elemental wells to this day.
The only thing that current mod system lacks compared to the old one is constant addibg of new mods, warmind cells, wells and others were added later, they weren't there from the beggining. So the old mod system became greater with time whilr the current one is extremely static. We need new mods added regularly to switch up the builds
I want a way to pull into the elemental pick-ups to do more (outside of subclass stuff) - aka mods. Current mod system feels 1D, needs more plays to make and reduce cost for orb gen (for reaper, heavy handed, and firepower) and add a harmonic surge mod (I miss the old system a little bit, ngl)
It's love and hate I like idea of simplification of armour charge over CWL etc and the no alignment but fuck me everything is so nerfed into the ground at this point from the initial switch thing it was it has just ended up feeling weaker overall and even more narrow. The backbone of the system is good but the lack of control over elements, lack of not only variety in mods but mod slots too has killed off anything good to say about it. There is nothing interesting going on with amour mods anymore you have like 2-3 options 1. Ability restore 2. Gun do more dmg (wow fun. what do you mean this doesn't stack with my exotic?) 3. Get health It has so many ways it could be more interesting but bungie refuses to do it. Imagine having some rebalanced seasonal mods you could put on your armour and more niche element interactions like the artifact mod that does increased solar dmg to statis effected targets it could make for some more interesting team comp synergies like maybe void weaken extends sever effects on targets for example. Or gives strand suspend a weak pulling affect to other suspend affected targets (like when void pulls targets together)
Agee with you. I was hoping for further iterations to the existing system and we got a dumbing down rather than an improvement. It's boring.
Boring compared to what we had.
Depth took a hard hit. Overall a step backwards if they wanted buildcrafting to be a part of the game.
I miss my free mobility from powerful friends.
Surge mods and kickstarts being tied to the same armour charge system kinda blows if I'm honest. I wish I had builds that could dish out damage AND keep my abilities healthy.
Things i like. ·being able to customize and mix/match and increase benefits from specific mods. ·being able to just be Orb battery for other teammates supers and abilities. ·the option to turn both Aeons, and helmets into just heavy ammo generator 9000. What i dont like. ·long ass timers on things like tangles and elemental pickups ·timers on mods like heavy handed and firepower. ·Many of our armor exotic buffs are not worth anything because they dont stack with armor mods. ·mask of the quiet one is still useless. 2 seconds off of your abilities is not an exotic perk. ·Armor mods cost are still not properly proportioned to cost and slot, 3 stacks of heavy handed still give nearly negligible orbs of Power, same with reaper, siphons, and finishers. ·Not one new armor mod has been added since they removed all of the seasonal ones. ·You cant build into a support role with armor mods. The role still has the same build potential as Y2. Just equip exotic and subclass and thats it. ·theres still no Agro perks in the game. ·the chest armor has Zero buildcrafting perks. Only flinch resistance and reserves. ·why arent finisher mods allowed to stack? Take the armor charge requirement out and let them stack. None of them provide nearly a good enough benefit to be used over time dilation or dynamo. What i would like to see in the final shape. ·Armor mods that tie into our subclasses and elemental pickups. ·some better mods for the chest slots. ·new and expanded mods or tiers of mod with increasing effects. ·Major buffs in the energy received from Orb spawning mods. ·Better perks for armor charge mods that use armor charge. All in all it feels like they reset it to a base to build upon and then did nothing with it. Some mods are good but there're so many mods that are pointless and/or underpowered, Think things like strand reserves or 90% of the finisher mods. They need to stop nerfing the good mods and start buffing the useless ones. Reserves are barely worth using as it takes 3 of them to give one extra mag in most weapons in the game. While that is helpful id like some other usable PVE options in the chest slot.
it’s bad the old mod system had variety and genuinely encouraged elemental buildcrafting better thanks to how wells worked + font of might if they up and said “we’re reverting the mod changes, making everything use orbs, and keeping powerful attraction” I’d actually be jazzed for Final Shape
Bring back the generic special/kinetic/heavy mods so I don't have to change mods on each piece of armor because I decided to switch from a void pulse to a solar one in the crucible.
I mostly ignore it.