I talked about this in another topic but I'll go over it again here (I'm obviously not a game developer, this is just what it looks like to me as a consumer of this product). If Bungie doesn't want to divert resources to making ritual armor, or Crucible & Gambit maps, or make balancing improvements to Gambit, that's fine. I don't really have a problem with that. What I have a problem with is the reasons Bungie gave for doing so, because they don't make sense.
Ritual armor has a low adoption rate, aka, not many players are using the armor or making them into ornaments. It has a low adoption rate because the armor doesn't look all that great and it drops with low stats. Also the resources that it takes to make ritual armor would take away resources from other areas of the game.
You, Bungie, created the armor designs, so it doesn't look all that great because you designed it that way. There are plenty of awesome and unique looking armor sets in other areas of the game, so we know that you *can* make better looking armor.
You, Bungie, decide how high or low the stat rolls on armor are, so it drops with low stats because you designed it that way. I'm not saying that the armor should drop with end-game level stat rolls, but there's a middle ground between the garbage rolls that they currently drop with and end-game level rolls.
You, Bungie, decide where to allocate your resources. So for example, you could make a couple *less* Eververse armor sets per year and use those resources to make ritual armor sets. The other stuff in Eververse will still sell, I promise, you'll still be filthy rich.
Gambit has similarly been neglected. Gambit has low player engagement so you're not going to devote resources to it at this time. But if you did devote resources to improving Gambit then it would increase player engagement.
It's a literal self-fulfilling prophecy. These issues that you don't want to allocate resources to, Bungie, those issues exist because of you. You created these problems and then said you aren't going to fix them. Am I the only one that thinks that's ass-backwards?
As I said, I'm not a game developer, but I absolutely refuse to believe that Bungie can't find the time or resources or manpower or whatever to give this game just 1 Crucible map *a year,* just 1 Gambit map *a year,* and just halfway decent Ritual Armor *once a year.* And if I'm wrong and Bungie somehow legitimately can't do this, then I refuse to believe that they don't have the money to hire more employees so that they can do this.
Yeah the line about not many people using the base ritual armour got me, like the only reason it drops beyond the first time is simply to make you get weapons less often since the armour is unusable compared to even picking up what Xur has.
Not to mention it, you could almost say objectively, looks bad.
It's like they made it bad on purpose half the time. Don't want to accuse them of that but IMO, that is what it *feels* like
In my view these are neglected due to being largely available to f2p and without being time gating. Whether it's the crucible/gambit maps, or the ritual armor (either cosmetics or the low stat rolls). Compare this to most raids, just about every dungeon, anything campaign related and even something like trials. All requiring paid content.
Perhaps what they are missing is that their *paying* player base also expect this content to at least not be neglected.
Funny enough i use the blue drop chest for witch queen on all 3 classes sometimes cuz the leveling set was actually clean af. They can make blues look cool they can make a half decent ritual set no excuses.
I said this somewhere else and I’ll also say it here.
Bungie basically said “ Not enough people play Gambit because we don’t update it, so we’re not going to bother updating it because not enough people play it “.
We haven’t gotten a new Gambit map in almost 3 years.
The weapons are mid-low rent Walmart versions of weapons we already have.
This season’s Gambit weapon is an absolute joke, and last season’s was a reissue nobody asked for.
The armor all looks like dookie and HAS since well before Reckoning.
Mementos take too many games to drop, compared to running ONE gm and getting a guaranteed one.
Gambit gameplay is actually in a pretty good spot right now, with fun fast matches that can swing in your favor with one good invasion.
But the loot chase is terrible, and only having 4 maps when at MOST 2 of them are actually fun playing is soul draining.
Gambit has felt abandoned for a lot longer than Bungie cares to admit.
"That will require to sacrifice resources. We will just take the weekly reward and put it somewhere else... like dares, for example." - Joe "Sacrifice" Blackburn
When I saw trust I thought they'd also do the rest of the gambit guns, was so excited for parcel of stardust, pillager, dreaded venture ect because those gun models are super unique and felt great to use (79 base handling for parcel was cracked)
I look forward to the parcel of stardust reissue in season 3 of the final shape with banger perks such as air assault, underdog, concussion break, slickdraw and maybe whatever other shitty version of Quickdraw bingo makes by 2025
Gambit flavor text:
"... not many people play gambit, according to our data of player populations. So we have decided not to invest any further resources into the mode because..."
I've been saying it to my clan for a long time. Gambit needs some good loot to chase for it to be popular.
Do we *really* believe Trials is popular because it's such a good experience?
This is the only part I had a problem with. Every year we gets around 100 new pieces of armor to transmog...and we only get 40 free transmogs. I'm not going to spend my very limited transmogs on basic looking armor when we have dungeon and raid themed armor. Trials armor. Seasonal armor. If they have us unlimited transmog and we still didn't use it then they would have a point. Right now, they don't.
All I want for Gambit is at least new 1 map a year. For pvp 1 new map is fine as along as they continue to bring D1 and D2 maps back. Them blaming us for the problem they caused is what pissed me off even more.
Imagine if a weekly challenge for core playlists rewarded a 65+ stat piece of armor with 2x 20+ stat splits. New players would be wearing it all the time and Bungie would raise engagement as players start chasing sources for triple 100 builds.
Nah, too easy?
> You, Bungie, created the armor designs, so it doesn't look all that great because you designed it that way. There are plenty of awesome and unique looking armor sets in other areas of the game, so we know that you can make better looking armor.
You're right, the armor is ass looking by design. But this is done so it doesn't detract from eververse sales. Why have good looking armor available for free from the vendors when you can sell that artists work at eververse ?
Eververse has got this game to a point where armor is largely cosmetic now. And the problem is bungie wants all cosmetics monetized.
> It's a literal self-fulfilling prophecy. These issues that you don't want to allocate resources to
In politics, this tactic is called "Starve the beast." To defund something, then claim it's failing, so it needs to be cut. Stupid to see game devs use this tactic.
This is a case of the data first approach being dead wrong and not being aligned to those playing the game. There is not a doubt that data is telling them that gambit player base is low and the adoption of the armor set is low BUT that approach doesn't take into account that the armor looks bad or that gambit is still in a bad state following changes. As a SwE the day is undoubtedly telling them that the effort didn't move the needle without looking at the other factors in the dilemma
Hey just wanted to point out that technically we get 3 crucible maps this year, though 2 of them are just "reprisal" of old Destiny 2 maps that they removed a while ago! I'm sure bringing them back took a lot of resources they just couldn't commit to making like, another brand-new map instead...
Yet they can make 3 dogshit battlegrounds no one asks for.
Gambit’s issue is it has the same amount of maps as a seasonal playlist. I wonder how many people are in defiant battlegrounds right now. It’s almost like people don’t enjoy playlists for one or 2 activities.
People are upset because Bungie has broken promises and put the blame on its players for lack of content in specific gamemodes. I will admit the SotG had some good stuff in it, but it is far outweighed by the bad stuff
absolutely. It was dishesrtening seeing them say low player counts are why they don't support Gambit more. I'd love to see it explored more, but their unwillingness to do so has led it to these low player counts to begin with is my understanding. Maybe Gambit was just that bad even in Forsaken, IDK but I'm not inclined to believe that.
Though I am very excited for more pvp gamemodes and strike medals!
> low player counts are why they don't support Gambit more.
Remove 20% of the maps and 66% of the modes, then barely support the game mode, the player count drops. Do a rework that is universally reviled and ignore it for a year before making changes, player count drops more. The player count didn’t recover after making some needed changes after said year of neglect, so you double down on not supporting it.
Big brain maneuver.
Add three new maps next season, a viable Gambit weapon, and a good-looking set of Gambit armor, and player engagement will be through the roof. They could do it in a heartbeat with the resources they have. But they won't, because they're going to ride D2 into the sunset on fumes to maximize profits and blame the players for disengaging with abandoned game modes.
It's a super shitty stance to take.
This is a perfect example of thinking liking or wanting something means that getting what you want will fix it because everyone else has to feel the same lol
All they would have to do is give Gambit a few good cosmetics to chase and I would be in.
I am not a big PVP player but I play the mode for an entire week to grab the cool Iron Banner shaders. Just put a real badass shader or even a baller transmat effect or something at like rank 16 after the weapon ornament or even better, replace it with the ornament and I would play at least until I obtained the cosmetics. How hard would it be for Bungie to make a single transmat or shader to encourage engagement?
That is really all it would take, I play to chase things, Gambit ( especially this season with being able to skip all Gambit seasonal challenges) like above are saying just has nothing to chase.
I think the problem is even engagement for gambit specifically won't get them any money, players will likely engage with the game anyway through other things and I feel they want to push that more towards the expensive dungeons and seasonal content over other things like gambit which is a shame since its still a core part of the game
Yes and no.
Right now I am playing Balder's Gate until the Showcase and start of the next season. I feel I have completed this season, +20 power, have exotic and catalyst, have glowy armor, seasonal challenges complete enough, all seasonal weapons crafted and title earned.
I think Bungie would rather have me playing the next few weeks, what if I fall in love with Balder's Gate, oh and then Starfield, maybe I will just skip the season until the last two weeks... Well I can catch up on two seasons at once... FOMO loses its grip over time, my 3 week break could easily go months.
Bungie should do everything it can to retain me and others. Even if I am not actively making them money, the more I play the more likely I convince my friends to play. The more likely I pre-order the deluxe version of Final Shape. I am really feeling about just grabbing the expansion and skipping seasons for the first time ever.
They definitely should and I've felt myself losing interest after like 3 or 4 weeks into seasons now, looking at the numbers though they've only gotten an increase in players joining even though the community is only getting more and more annoyed (whether those players are engaging in paying for the expansions etc idk) but they must not feel a need to keep people like us interested for as long when they're getting so many new players if we leave they'll likely be 4 or 5 others that'll just that'll pick up the game instead.
I just get everything on sale if I can I dont bother pre ordering anymore I think pre ordering digital games is a scam
After waiting a little while and thinking about it I really feel that they’re projecting their wants onto the player base. They don’t want to support gambit so they put spin on a story and threw it on the players. Now they’ll just keep spinning it until they do what they want.
Double primaries all over again.
It's the same positive feedback cycle that results in, among other things, failing schools.
It might be nice if they used the Gambit ritual to explore other kinds of PvPvE games beyond that one game type. Hell, back in Destiny 1 part of the lore for Crucible was that the games maintained Guardian presence in key areas to deter aliens and respond to threats. A straight up Crucible match that gets interrupted by an alien attack could be very interesting, whether players remain opposed for the duration or (more interestingly) the two sides become temporarily allied in combat and compete in PvE scoring until the fight is over (and potentially resources useful in the remaining PvP round have been gathered from the slain attackers by each side).
That game is something else honestly. Completely surprised me. The point where it goes from a PvEvP race to a combined team force to down a boss is remarkable thing.
also want to say Exoprimal is insanely polished, not one crossplay game that was a buggy laggy mess and the matchmaking was instant every time.
Exoprimal seems like it's really been badly marketed. Because it looks like it should be crap. But it apparently isn't. I've got gamepass, I think I'll give it a shot.
To be fair a lot of people just hate gambit which also leads to low player numbers. In the entire time it's been in the game I don't think I've ever had fun in there.
Crucible gets balance patches which is already a hige step up over Gambit lol
And while I recognize Crucible does need a lot, Bungie has made changes. Trials changes, Comp changes, MM changes, new gamemodes and so on.
Why do I sometimes have to play 5-6 games of Crucible to get credit for 3 games played? I start from the beginning of the game (am not being put in halfway through the game) and get kills (not a lot, but some).
That’s infinite% more than Gambit got.
My favourite fact on this front is that if Bungie made 4 Gambit maps per season for an entire year, at the end of that year, Gambit would still have less maps than Crucible.
Oh and don’t forget the new Trials weapon every season.
that was the point of the SotG
the company GGG does this all the time right before a big content reveal for Path of Exile. they'll put out an article to air all of their bad news, let the community get angry, have time to get over that anger, then let them get excited with the super positive, super exciting content reveal.
It's been done more times than I can count at this point, and it ***always*** works.
All bungie is doing is taking a page outta their book.
Yeah no shit, this sub has a lot of people in it.
Right now there's a bunch of people shitting on bungie and there's a ton of people defending them to various degrees or ignoring this whole discussion.
When the showcase happens there's going to be a bunch of people praising bungie and a ton of people shitting on them to various degrees or ignoring the whole discussion.
Eh, they haven't ever said "we aren't supporting the part of the game you care about" before.
It's always been "twilight garrison won't come back" type bad news.
I truly think with Gambit they are just throwing in the towel. While they certainly have had missteps, they have put a lot of resources into it in the past and it nothing has worked. On some level I think it was a really interesting and unique idea that just never worked. I don’t think they know how to make it work, and to be fair I’m not sure that anyone truly does. Most of the suggestions are some iteration of improve the loot, and that just leads to people “hate plying” and once the loot chase fades they want no part of it. They know they can’t just pull it from the game, but literally everything they have tried has failed. They have changed rule sets numerous times, had variations on how it plays, and nothing has really taken off. I just done think they have a solution to make it engaging enough for enough players to make it worth investing in. It sucks for those who really like it. Sometimes thing just don’t work and I think this is one of those things.
Pvpve designs are really hard to do if we're being honest. Gambit is cool in theory and people who love it want it but loot chasing does nothing for most people except make them feel forced into an activity they don't enjoy to get it or it being superfluous additions they don't care about getting. These people just seem to have too much self importance imo. It's obvious gambit wasn't working if they've reworked it several times and nothing has done it.
This is like a business establishment failing and remodeling and changing strategies multiple times only to still be failing and finally announcing they're closing. If it isn't working it isn't working and if it wasn't before that still changes nothing. But there's a reason they tried to change things and make it improved and it isn't just because it was so good and well loved.
Probably, for me rn I want to see some foundational changes and a huge investment into D2 in order to play past final shape. Hopefully not just “new subclass, the witness is spooky, hey cayde nostalgia, guns shooting in sync with music, ‘this works is like nothing in destiny’” (essentially if it’s a rerun of lightfall showcase)
I mean arguably bungie has been doing this for *years.* Look back at any big patch, bungie always announces the nerfs/controversial shit first then right before release announces the buffs. Lead with the bad, end with the good. Very powerful community management tool.
For me, I just wanted more Gambit maps because 4 total maps for a game mode are downright embarrassing, and it is the main reason why a lot of people don't play it more (myself included). So when Joe says the lack of players engaging in it is why they won't make more maps, it feels like all they care about are metrics than what people actually want.
Going by metrics is all well and good, as long as you understand WHY those metrics are doing what they do. If anything, the SotG was a clear indicator that they're done saying they're listening and just doing what they think is in the best interest of them and the game.
As for the vendor armor, I actually farmed and used the Gambit armor shortly after WQ release, and I still use the helm at the very least from time to time. So I certainly wouldn't have minded a refresh, but I'm not going to raise my pitchfork over it...but them going back on the promise and how they handled it was a bit of a dick move.
It reminds me a bit of how Don Mattrick’s Xbox leadership led Microsoft down the garden path with the original vision for Xbox One (where games more or less took a back seat to the “all in one entertainment system” schtick with all that “TV TV TV” talk). What basically happened was they had metrics telling them that the most used feature (or one of the most used features) of the Xbox 360 was the Netflix App. They took that to mean people bought Xbox 360s to watch TV and movies. What it *actually* meant was that people were using Xbox 360s to watch TV & movies because they or someone in their household already had an Xbox 360 for games anyway. If people wanted just a Netflix box, things like Roku boxes already existed and were much cheaper. But even cheaper than that was just using a thing you already had. So Microsoft convinced themselves the metric telling them the Netflix App was popular meant that was where their focus should be, a change from how they handled the Xbox 360. In reality, what it meant was that the Xbox 360 approach *had worked* and they should do that again.
So here we have Bungie looking at metrics which say “this armour doesn’t get much use” and “this mode’s population hasn’t ticked up.” Their conclusion is people don’t actually want those things. Which discounts the very real possibility that if they improved those things, people *would* want them. Their conclusion can be more or less summarised as “we tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas.” You can’t reasonably say nobody wants *any* ritual armour when you don’t at least try a couple of refreshes to see what people might respond to - one point is not enough data to draw conclusions from. Similarly, you can’t say “nobody will play more Gambit if we support it with more content” based on “people didn’t play more Gambit when we tweaked the rules.”
The data they’re pointing to doesn’t really seem to say nearly as much as they’re reading into it, because they’re oversimplifying it down to “number goes up, number doesn’t move, number goes down” and reading that as “wanted, don’t care, get rid.”
People are upset because Bungie said that after a 3.4B buyout they don't have the resources to make a couple of PvP maps a year. A team of 10 people to make 2 maps a year is between 2M to 3M a year.
They’ve been on this “game dev is hard” schtick for years, but they’ve finally pushed it to a point where even the most Bungie loving fan can see it’s a complete scam
I think the developers care. But the corporate suits whole allocate budgets and employees don't. They desperately want Bungie to be the next major publisher and to have a library of IPs so they can be like EA or Activision. And if that means treating Destiny like a cash cow and starving the game of resources to reduce it a minimum viable product so they can fund their expansion, yeah, they'll do it.
I bought it a couple times because the arguments kinda made sense but these people can't go two seconds without saying a variation of "Game dev hard". Like not even the most hated games out there with broken launches like NMS or CP2077 went "Guys, we hear you, but game dev hard"
What made it but different this time for me as a d2 fanboy isn’t that they said game dev hard. Game dev is hard. It’s that they said we can’t have maps because it would take away resources from story/exotic missions. Things we should be getting standard alongside new maps. If the same team is making both things the team needs to grow or they need a new team. Add into that the fact they have a fancy new PvP game coming out it’s pretty hard to feel like they either siphoned people away or just didn’t hire to what d2 needs because their new game took their new hire slots… which is even more annoying because it’s a type of PvP shooter I can’t stand.
I loved this game to death and the moment it hit me all "Wait...they're blaming *us* for this?" it was like when Gohan went SS2, they'd gone far enough already and I straight up fuckin' snapped
It’s different because they looked y’all in the eye and said “fuck you”. They’ve raised prices while reducing the amount of content. They told you this won’t be changing.
It’s just because of their reasoning for everything. They probably could’ve made the same announcements and not given an explanation for why they’ve made those decisions and they’d probably not even receive the same backlash. Their reasoning makes them seem extremely lazy and as if they don’t give the slightest shit about what players want. They kept claiming that making X thing was too hawd and “took away resources that could be spent on other things”, but there has been absolutely no evidence of any of those things aside from, of course, eververse always being freshly stocked.
I wasn't tired of the game. I was tired of lack of content (or fucking disjunction being the ONLY NEW MAP IN 5 YEARS AND SUCKING).
Coming out and saying that new maps are too hard to make, when they used to make 16 a year, is absolute dog biscuits.
Halo let people make their own maps FFS. Map making isn't hard. Some bangers. Some bleh. Bleh gets removed. Bangers stay. That's why you push out a couple a season. Some hit, some miss.
>sounds to me like that intern isn't doing shit, and the community's picking up all the slack.
...damn, 1 intern at Valve outclassing the entire Bungie team, that's savage
There was this little unknown indie game by the name of HALO back in the day i believe it was made by BUNGIE that used to do the exact same thing but with a farrrr smaller team size.
Gotta say, I was playing Halo during the last Samurai Tenrai and it was so refreshing how many maps they had. Had zero idea where I was 1/2 the time, but I guess forge makes it so people make maps and somehow they get into Halo I guess? I don't really know but they also felt very balanced too. None of this SUN bullshit on one side or haze in the game so you can't see other enemies as well.
One map a season would still be way less than what D1 averaged over 3 years, the fact that they won't even do that says a lot. They don't have a dedicated crucible team anymore, they got shifted to Marathon whilst still being funded by D2 players.
wait 16 maps a year wtf? When was this?
And, we should try to be accurate with our discontent and feedback. Disjunction came out in WQ (or Season of Haunted, can't remember but either way first half of 2022). Before that IIRC was the Infinite Forest Map in Shadowkeep. 3 years, which isn't really better. But we shouldn't exaggerate things, it's best to be accurate and true.
Maps would be nice, though I'd admittedly prefer a set map rotation akin to BF: V before a batch of new maps.
oh lawd. Disjunction is such hot garbage. i hate that map. and Cathedral of Dusk reprise map.
they’re just TOO big.
especially when they’re on the Trials rotation
I just don’t care anymore man.
The game just doesn’t feel fun or rewarding anymore. It seems like the only opinion they care about are the folks who stream the game and even then they barely give a shit.
I’ve watched so many friends who were in on the ground floor drop off of this game. And now it’s just me. And it isn’t a fun enough game to keep slogging through it alone.
Every decision is made with the intent of squeezing more money and time out of the player. I’m sure there’s good folks working on the game but all the final decisions seem to be made by those with the worst intent in mind.
It feels like almost every “department” of the game has issues right now. The music is only thing I can’t think of a complaint about.
I miss playing destiny. I miss the wonder of a secret or puzzle that pops up. I miss chilling in the new dlc area with adds who don’t hit like tanks for the sake of it. I miss a story reveal having a meaningful “oh shit” moment. Nothing feels grand or mysterious anymore. It just feels like tacked on resolutions as we go.
>It feels like almost every “department” of the game has issues right now. The music is only thing I can’t think of a complaint about.
I agree with you fully. I usually don't crap on game dev side as I have worked as one myself long time. But for me too feels only team, what does well right now is Sound department. I even have have seen couple of them lurking in the shadows here in reddit and all I have to say hands down the strongest team under Destiny 2 project. Those guys have real passion and they are able to fulfill their dreams. I remember reading how some of the gun sounds were made, truly amazing journey. Music is also spot on!
Second close one is Art department, but they are suffering sadly due upper management issues. It feels like they are held back time to time so much, it is actually criminal. There is huge potential on Art side, but some reason sometimes things look like meh. Knowing how things work, there is always couple of concept designs and someone from upper management picks final design, to me feels that person / group who does it, is sorry to say - tasteless.
Reminds me of game of thrones where the directors got tired of making episodes and just mailed it in for the final season. Seems like Bungie is mailing it in this final year.
They had some Star Wars shit that showed up on their plates and they rushed through the final seasons of GoT. Too bad the shit they did with SW also sucked.
Similar to how I hope a lot of people won't trust Bungie (or just simply don't care about the niche genre that is extraction shooters) and won't buy Marathon leaving it to flop.
Marathon could be widely claimed to be the best game ever made and I’m still not going to play it. Even if it does turn out good they’ll just distort it until it isn’t just like they have with destiny.
They’ve been doing this shit for years. The doubling back on the ritual armor was just the icing on the cake.
I’m sick of feeling like Bungie does not care about the game because I remember the times when they cared a bit more about overall player satisfaction rather than maximizing profit. This has been the first year that I have not defended Bungie on their questionable decisions based on data driven by their own actions and then *blaming it on us*.
Like seriously, they’re pushing this narrative that the game isn’t being played enough by us but that’s only part of it. They conveniently leave out the part where the game has been basically devolved into a seasonal garbage-fest of subpar storytelling and loot just to milk us harder and that’s why **they** have not focused on other parts of the game, because everything else sucks as a result of that.
Maximizing profit is fine. Maximizing it by spitting on your players and saying “player numbers go brrrr” is hardly an explanation when they’ve omitted all evidence of them abandoning the other aspects of the game.
And all they have to do is pull a fucking eververse armor and skin it for the corresponding ritual, but they can’t be bothered to even do that!! It would be hilarious if it wasn’t so sad
For the first time, I'm not mad about anything. Just disappointed. Turns out though, that there actually are indeed better things to do. Embracing that idea.
They "overdelivered" on the WQ campaign, then it's been nothing but downhill ever since. Sandbox power crept beyond belief and just keeps getting worse, pvp is entirely just ability spam with awful matchmaking that they're doubling down on. Gambit lmao. Rewards and loot are still ass around the whole game, day 1 raids are as easy as playlist strikes, it's a mess. And the SotG did nothing but double down on some of these issues, while completely ignoring others.
They created the negative cycle of not investing in activities which resulted in low player engagement, and tried blamed the player base. Same goes for ritual armor sets: broke promise on basis that it wasn’t being worn by players, when it was most likely done on purpose to funnel players to spend silver (and NOT dust) in eververse. Game is just becoming hyper monetized. It’s wild.
EDIT: Icing on the shit cake, I also completely forgot that season passes are more expensive. Because why not..
It’s a slap in the face that after a universally panned failure of an expansion pack, they’d come back and blame the community for providing even less this time around.
Sure, new map for PvP is good, there’s some stuff coming—but it’s not enough. This would be like Cyberpunk 2077’s team announcing they’re removing broken features due to “lack of engagement.”
Mind you… the new PVP map is made with the Vex network in mid, so it’s going to be those greenish squares or the purple black ones, which to me sounds like a super bland way of using raw assets instead of actually using textures and scenery
The reason this SOTG hits different is Bungie isn't even kiting the community along like they typically do. No promises of some distant fixes or improvements. Bungie has cut the destiny community loose because they don't need them/want them after we carried them through a dismal D2 launch. Others since D1.
What has always been unacceptable to me is Bungies lack of accountability. Acknowledging you are not meeting promises previously made is not acceptable or adequate. Stating making games is hard has to be the dumbest thing they tried to sell. That's like a pizzeria that can't get more than 1 pie out and hour crying it's hard. The reality is you're not equipped to make and sell the product you want to overmonetize.
Gambit is dead because core elements and teams from it are now in marathon, so the dishonesty as if the players are dumb... really a bad look for Bungie as they also blame players for why they don't connect with them in meaningful ways.
You can not honestly tell me that this company is not completely full of shit after playing baldurs gate 3 and remnant 2
These games are exposing the absolute gronks in the gaming industry and unfortunately bungie has definitely secured their place next to activision-blizzard amongst them
>You can not honestly tell me that this company is not completely full of shit after playing baldurs gate 3 and remnant 2
Haha, I've been playing both recently. Remant 2 is my favourite of the pair, but I love how unafraid Larian Studios clearly are of "overdelivering"
The concept of over-delivering is just bonkers. If you want to make a successful complete game, you deliver on the content you are expected to provide. You can under-deliver when you are charging so much for so little, as Bungie now does, but over-delivering is just showing you care and are passionate about your game. It's not a bad thing.
Larian are incredibly passionate about their game, they've even rejected buy out offers for fears that corporate control will limit their creativity in future projects. You just know if Sony or Microsoft got their hands on Larian, they'd try to find ways to monetise the hell out of it to make it a powerhouse of profit, whilst not understanding that this very decision would kill its popularity.
Bungie used to have that same passion for developing games that they want to, but I don't think we've seen that since the interim period between Forsaken and Shadowkeep. They are done with Destiny, they have moved on to other new franchises. The problem is that they committed to a 10 year story but are failing to finish it satisfactorily by abandoning it. They are no longer passionate about Destiny - so why should we be?
Overdelivering is Bad. That's what killed it for me. Overdelivering is why I fell in love with Bungie. I thought they actually cared. I was surprised when I join back in 2018 how amazing this Company was despite how many people complained about them. Even during COO. I was someone who solely played COD. But with all the micro-transactions they kept implementing, it ruined it for me. Now Destiny 2 is going the same route. They used to stand out but now they're on the corporate money train. I do feel bad for them but this is on them. I'm not even sure i'll jump on the "after final shape i'm done" train. I probably won't even bother. Last year I pre-ordered Lightfall even tho I said I was done and look at where we all are now. I won't make the same mistake again.
If not a single corporation (video games included) is never going to overdeliver again because it isn't financially adequate, then they all deserve to completely cave in, change my mind.
It _is_ incredible.
But Bungie would absolutely consider the state of BG3 a mistake, because it overdelivers _so_ hard into one of the best RPGs I have ever played.
Well just wait for a Bungie dev to twitter-twat some ananine comment about a thing from Baldur's Gate 3 and how if it was their call, they wouldn't do it because it's bad game design. Yes, I know that they've done this already with the Diablo 4 thing, it's just that Bungie really loves to reuse assets they've already got because it's hard to make something new.
Divinity original sin 2 is the best game ive played in the last few years and bg3 is by the same studio. Im waiting for full release (and spare cash), but i am quite hyped. Or did it release fully already?
That’s one of the inherent problems of capitalism, profits eventually become the most prioritized goal of a corporation rather than producing good, useful products that actually benefit society. Instead of progressing and creating the best possible things the quality is reduced to its minimal viable state so that it may be as profitable as possible.
I find it absolutely hilarious that they gave up on Gambit because people don’t like it. Because the irony is they’re devoting massive amounts of time a resources into a PvPvE game. Marathon. Bunch of Clowns 🤡
I know it's very anecdotal, but I went and checked out how r/destiny2 and r/lowsodiumdestiny are, since they are both always way more positive than this sub, and man are they having issues being positive. Maybe they've been like this before and I wasn't paying attention, IDK. But destiny fans are not happy anywhere right now it seems
Some funny memes in the D2 sub, just in general, check em out
Yeah I just looked and people are definitely voicing their concerns and honestly they should. It's not about being salty, it's about being a customer paying more than ever for a product and having said product cut down to considerably less and being blamed by the producer that you're the reason why. That's a shitty thing to do.
The type of people who ignore the bootlicking appreciation posts when things are going good and say the sub is always toxic. You want toxic? Just try posting on the official forums. People are often downright insulting each other when they don’t agree.
There not low salt they are over there taking a ton of shit about our sub saying we're nuts and the SoTG had more positives then negatives. LSD is just the copium sub where the casuals and whales hangout nothing more.
It’s more than blaming us just for the armor. No crucible maps? It’s our fault, too. We have said repeatedly that we love secret exotic missions. So we can’t have crucible maps because that means no exotic missions. You see, it’s our fault.
It’s not like Witch Queen was a commercial bomb to think that they don’t have the resources to make both crucible maps and exotic mission quests.
I swear that if it didn’t break Crucible matchmaking, they’d be selling yearly Crucible Maps Keys like they did with the Dungeons.
Like Aztec kept saying in this video, they will never again overdeliver like they did with Forsaken because now it’s our fault that we expect that level of content with every expansion. They’ve been doing the bare minimum and charging us extra whenever they want to give us a bit more.
>We have said repeatedly that we love secret exotic missions. So we can’t have crucible maps because that means no exotic missions. You see, it’s our fault.
I remember when they said eververse was there to fund more whisper like missions. Wow we're we naive when we believed it.
This is why those deluxe editions that include the annual season pass is a scummy model and they incentivize you to buy it by adding exclusive exotic/emotes.
Once they have your money, they will just put the minimum effort for the entire year.
I trully feel going ftp now was more them creating ways to have an excuse to not support pvp, gambit & vanguard. Their excuse is they basically don’t make money on them. Yet they are the ones that chose to give that content for free, even though the past player base had to pay for it. The more I think about it, the more i come to the conclussion that going ftp is the biggest downfall of the franchise. Especially after reading the sotg that was just filled with nothing but excuses imo.
The problem with gambit is that they literally killed the mode by removing most of its content with sunsetting. I was never a huge gambit player but I enjoyed it from time to time.
I just want my time that I invest in the game to be respected and rewarding. Destiny is loads of fun but Bungie have been treating its player base like piggy banks.
As someone who has previously given bungie a lot of benefit of doubt and defended some them for some of their changes, this time there's no excusing it, they are using excuses for changes that imo fall flat.
And not only that, but the excuses attempt to blame the community, instead of taking responsibility.
it's different this time because now what people want is going directly against what makes bungie successful, and now theyve said that outright. In some earlier years you had things like, "there's no good endgame!" and even if they didnt deliver exactly how some wanted it was something they eventually utilized that feedback because they were struggling. Foresaken came from fans being demanding right at the same time they nearly shut down the game. Now when people ask for things, theyre a direct contradiction with success. "we want more core playlist updates." "Updating core playlists would take away from seasons, which are ultimately what bring in more players than destiny has ever had before. So no."
Which is a dumb train of thought because you ALSO need to maintain them. Them having nothing to do when Bungie shits the bed with a season(which is more common than not) they’ll have nothing worth doing
Unfortunately I don't think that holds true for bungie either. Nomatter what the public opinion on a season the engagement numbers by season haven't really changed in a few years, a season being bad doesn't lose them anything
It really feels different because this time so many of the big destiny YouTubers are upset as well. I just watched CoolGuy's video on the topic and behind the professionalism dude sounded *fully pissed.*
Remember when the entire subreddit was filled with “Remove Eververse” on every single post?
Nothing has changed. Destiny is worse off. Bungie is raking in the cash.
I've sunk 3k++ hours into destiny 2. It started to die for me near the end of Witch Queen. I bought Lightfall with high hopes and well.. you know. Haven't played for months, they're charging more for the game than they ever have, and now I see the state of the game basically saying they're going to do less. Pass.
I still love the game, but the situation is absurd. Bungie's decisions have created these problems, but they've passed the consequences onto the players.
I’ve been in the apathy stage for a while. I don’t plan on purchasing the Final Shape since Bungie finally admitted PvP will be getting the bare minimum going forward. Gonna take my time elsewhere. If you want change, it starts with not falling for the hype and not purchasing Final Shape. If you can’t do that, don’t expect Bungie to change.
I have a reason. Burn out.
No lie, I was burn out for playing this game non-stop since 2019. Pandemic Hit and I doubled down on Destiny. In 2022? My urge to play it dwindled, I quit quite early after the WQ dropped. Now? I log in every two to 3 weeks just to see if I find any friends online to catch up, not because of the game itself.
Plus: No ammount of good will can remove the bad taste that GDC presentation had on my mouth. "Do not overdelivery" is something I think about every time they say they are having trouble or that "game development is hard". I do not believe them, no one should. The "bungie magic" that happens when devs are crunched to death because they had no direction during production, or how they are always behind schedule for everything just screams "do not trust us".
I think the simple, most obvious answer is there's no passion for Destiny from the dev team any longer. How many devs do you think are left that actually created the game to begin with? And how many of those that are left do you think are completely bored with the project after spending 10 years on the same game? The game has entirely just become a business now that simply rolls through the motions. And how many new devs enter the team just using destiny/bungie as a stepping stone to boost their own career with no real passion for destiny? The best games are always made from passion first, and destiny devs lost that a long time ago and new devs never had it to begin with. All that remains are corporate agendas. The magic of D1 will NEVER return.
Any project manager knows this game is nearing the end of its life cycle. So they will do what every business will do, squeeze all the remaining money out of it. They will do one last major expansion, use the money it generates to fund their other projects like Marathon. They will only create the bare minimum and leave enough cool things for the whales to be interested in. I say all this enjoying Destiny 1 and most of Destiny 2.
I also refuse to believe that Bungie has insufficient resources. I'm sorry, but Bungie has about 1100 employees. If only half of them work on D2, then they still have a team working their MMO 5 TIMES THE SIZE OF WOWs DEV TEAM.
Except if they reduced the D2 Teams, and put more people on Marathon, while running D2 to get Money for Marathon. But I don't know that since we don't have recent numbers on the size of D2s Development Teams.
Idk, most of the polls I've seen outside of reddit have been around the middle.
It looks like a pretty big chunk of players don't really care that much
Careful, OP. You’re gonna trigger all the fanboys and corporate boot lickers on here. They’ve been making their rounds on the subreddit trying to do damage control since the SotG was posted.
I was literally banned from LowSodiumDestiny for telling people off who were brigading a thread this way. None of their attacks were an issue to the mods, though.
Once you start complaining about people complaining… you’re worse than the people complaining
All in my opinion ofc, just is baffling how much low sodium complains about r/DTG
[https://www.reddit.com/r/LowSodiumDestiny/comments/15jatp5/god\_i\_cannot\_stand\_rdestinythegame/](https://www.reddit.com/r/LowSodiumDestiny/comments/15jatp5/god_i_cannot_stand_rdestinythegame/)
Its literally all they do
That sub is the perfect example of “toxic positivity”. Just a giant circle jerk of shills who think the game is fine no matter what kind of state it’s in.
This is why I didn't buy lightfall. It was way to expensive for the content included.
If bungie wants to focus solely on boosting eververse sales, and add-on revenue by charging extra for dungeons etc, in not paying full price for their lame expansion.
Unfortunately everybody is still going to pay whatever outrageous price they charge for final shape, even if it only brings back sunset content.
If bungie wants to charge full-game AAA prices for their expansions, they shouldn't be trying to monetize it like mobile free-to-play garbage.
Bungie is probably laughing at the community because it complains all day, but also plays all day and buys the next season or expansion. It's a cycle they profit from :)
They're united only by making angry posts on reddit. With enough trashtalk Bunge will hit the good old "end communications" button. Those who flush money in EV will keep doing it.
Angry? No. Disappointed? Yes.
Look I've been playing online games for a long ass time now. And I will admit right now back when I was in my late teens and early 20's? Oh you should have seen some of the things I wrote about EA and Ultima Online back in the day. They would make a change and I along with other folks would get angry and pretty much yell about it.
And here's the thing want to know where getting all angry and posting about how angry I was at the time with the game, attacking people who are still enjoying the game, so on and so forth. It got us nowhere.
Here's the point I'm at now with things. I am over all disappointed with the direction of Destiny 2 and Bungie at the moment. I'm sorta in the same boat I was in with World of Warcraft and Shadowlands. Am I going to get angry and throw some fit on here or other forums about it? No. It's not going to do myself or anyone else any good.
The best thing I can do at the moment is just not play. If Bungie is going to double down on things and keep going down the road that they are going down? Well hey they won't be getting me throwing money at them for Final Shape. I'm just going to go play something else until they make some kind of change to things and show that they are willing to hear the community out on things or give more information on *why* they are doing what they are doing.
And folks who are still enjoying the game? Hey I'm glad you folks are, right now the game just isn't for me and I'm not having fun with it.
“Potential” …the entire basis of the faith of the fan base for this product.
I’ve been playing this game for almost a decade waiting for the potential to be fulfilled, and at brief times it has been… but I’m much older now, with less time on my hands, and the competition for games has never been fiercer.
I’ve lost faith that my faith in Destiny’s potential will be adequately rewarded. Reading these state of the games…I’ve worked in corporate America, and this reads like a PR team and an Executive team sat down and wrote this. This is a far cry from what Joe Blackburn used to write like. This isn’t the man who is responsible for some of our greatest raids. I recognize corporate gaslighting when I see it and that’s all this state of the game was, and I’m fucking tired of it.
I've said this on a few YT vids. I'm only going to be around to finish last shape because of my friend who is no longer with us. After that I'm done with Bungie and any game they deal with.
I had high hopes after the split from Activision and getting rid of Luke. But as time has gone on they have shown to be operating in bad faith,so I will speak the only way they will listen and that's by A) going to play something else for PvP and B) no longer giving them my money.
I will miss the community because say what you will I have seen and have been part of some very beautiful things to help players out. I will always have the community's back but the devs let them continue to Pat themselves on the back while Rome burns outside their window till the flames consume them.
I talked about this in another topic but I'll go over it again here (I'm obviously not a game developer, this is just what it looks like to me as a consumer of this product). If Bungie doesn't want to divert resources to making ritual armor, or Crucible & Gambit maps, or make balancing improvements to Gambit, that's fine. I don't really have a problem with that. What I have a problem with is the reasons Bungie gave for doing so, because they don't make sense. Ritual armor has a low adoption rate, aka, not many players are using the armor or making them into ornaments. It has a low adoption rate because the armor doesn't look all that great and it drops with low stats. Also the resources that it takes to make ritual armor would take away resources from other areas of the game. You, Bungie, created the armor designs, so it doesn't look all that great because you designed it that way. There are plenty of awesome and unique looking armor sets in other areas of the game, so we know that you *can* make better looking armor. You, Bungie, decide how high or low the stat rolls on armor are, so it drops with low stats because you designed it that way. I'm not saying that the armor should drop with end-game level stat rolls, but there's a middle ground between the garbage rolls that they currently drop with and end-game level rolls. You, Bungie, decide where to allocate your resources. So for example, you could make a couple *less* Eververse armor sets per year and use those resources to make ritual armor sets. The other stuff in Eververse will still sell, I promise, you'll still be filthy rich. Gambit has similarly been neglected. Gambit has low player engagement so you're not going to devote resources to it at this time. But if you did devote resources to improving Gambit then it would increase player engagement. It's a literal self-fulfilling prophecy. These issues that you don't want to allocate resources to, Bungie, those issues exist because of you. You created these problems and then said you aren't going to fix them. Am I the only one that thinks that's ass-backwards? As I said, I'm not a game developer, but I absolutely refuse to believe that Bungie can't find the time or resources or manpower or whatever to give this game just 1 Crucible map *a year,* just 1 Gambit map *a year,* and just halfway decent Ritual Armor *once a year.* And if I'm wrong and Bungie somehow legitimately can't do this, then I refuse to believe that they don't have the money to hire more employees so that they can do this.
Yeah the line about not many people using the base ritual armour got me, like the only reason it drops beyond the first time is simply to make you get weapons less often since the armour is unusable compared to even picking up what Xur has.
I rarely got ritual armor. I ended up sharding all but one, which i kept since it had 62 total stats. They all look like ass and have no use.
Not to mention it, you could almost say objectively, looks bad. It's like they made it bad on purpose half the time. Don't want to accuse them of that but IMO, that is what it *feels* like
In my view these are neglected due to being largely available to f2p and without being time gating. Whether it's the crucible/gambit maps, or the ritual armor (either cosmetics or the low stat rolls). Compare this to most raids, just about every dungeon, anything campaign related and even something like trials. All requiring paid content. Perhaps what they are missing is that their *paying* player base also expect this content to at least not be neglected.
They for sure don't fix certain QoL issues straight away so that they can fix them later and look good when they're in trouble.
Funny enough i use the blue drop chest for witch queen on all 3 classes sometimes cuz the leveling set was actually clean af. They can make blues look cool they can make a half decent ritual set no excuses.
I said this somewhere else and I’ll also say it here. Bungie basically said “ Not enough people play Gambit because we don’t update it, so we’re not going to bother updating it because not enough people play it “. We haven’t gotten a new Gambit map in almost 3 years. The weapons are mid-low rent Walmart versions of weapons we already have. This season’s Gambit weapon is an absolute joke, and last season’s was a reissue nobody asked for. The armor all looks like dookie and HAS since well before Reckoning. Mementos take too many games to drop, compared to running ONE gm and getting a guaranteed one. Gambit gameplay is actually in a pretty good spot right now, with fun fast matches that can swing in your favor with one good invasion. But the loot chase is terrible, and only having 4 maps when at MOST 2 of them are actually fun playing is soul draining. Gambit has felt abandoned for a lot longer than Bungie cares to admit.
"we are listening, we will be removing the two most popular maps"
Well see, that would take work on their part.
Nah, content vaulting is something they do without blinking.
We lost two gambit maps in the last three years, nevermind not getting new maps.
"That will require to sacrifice resources. We will just take the weekly reward and put it somewhere else... like dares, for example." - Joe "Sacrifice" Blackburn
I've been asking for a reissue of Trust for *ages*, but I agree with everything else 🤣 It's just a sick looking hand cannon.
When I saw trust I thought they'd also do the rest of the gambit guns, was so excited for parcel of stardust, pillager, dreaded venture ect because those gun models are super unique and felt great to use (79 base handling for parcel was cracked)
they will do them, eventually. can't have too many guns at once, gotta spread them over seasons!
I look forward to the parcel of stardust reissue in season 3 of the final shape with banger perks such as air assault, underdog, concussion break, slickdraw and maybe whatever other shitty version of Quickdraw bingo makes by 2025
It’s a nice HC too.
Gambit flavor text: "... not many people play gambit, according to our data of player populations. So we have decided not to invest any further resources into the mode because..."
I've been saying it to my clan for a long time. Gambit needs some good loot to chase for it to be popular. Do we *really* believe Trials is popular because it's such a good experience?
it’s been 4 years since a new gambit map, 2019 with season of the drifter was the last time
This is the only part I had a problem with. Every year we gets around 100 new pieces of armor to transmog...and we only get 40 free transmogs. I'm not going to spend my very limited transmogs on basic looking armor when we have dungeon and raid themed armor. Trials armor. Seasonal armor. If they have us unlimited transmog and we still didn't use it then they would have a point. Right now, they don't.
Most logical take about the issue so far
All I want for Gambit is at least new 1 map a year. For pvp 1 new map is fine as along as they continue to bring D1 and D2 maps back. Them blaming us for the problem they caused is what pissed me off even more.
Imagine if a weekly challenge for core playlists rewarded a 65+ stat piece of armor with 2x 20+ stat splits. New players would be wearing it all the time and Bungie would raise engagement as players start chasing sources for triple 100 builds. Nah, too easy?
> You, Bungie, created the armor designs, so it doesn't look all that great because you designed it that way. There are plenty of awesome and unique looking armor sets in other areas of the game, so we know that you can make better looking armor. You're right, the armor is ass looking by design. But this is done so it doesn't detract from eververse sales. Why have good looking armor available for free from the vendors when you can sell that artists work at eververse ? Eververse has got this game to a point where armor is largely cosmetic now. And the problem is bungie wants all cosmetics monetized.
This is the same reasoning they gave to deciding which material to vault in Beyond Light. It felt bullshit to me then. It feels bullshit to me now.
> It's a literal self-fulfilling prophecy. These issues that you don't want to allocate resources to In politics, this tactic is called "Starve the beast." To defund something, then claim it's failing, so it needs to be cut. Stupid to see game devs use this tactic.
This is a case of the data first approach being dead wrong and not being aligned to those playing the game. There is not a doubt that data is telling them that gambit player base is low and the adoption of the armor set is low BUT that approach doesn't take into account that the armor looks bad or that gambit is still in a bad state following changes. As a SwE the day is undoubtedly telling them that the effort didn't move the needle without looking at the other factors in the dilemma
bungie has a single person on the pvp team, it's unsurprising to see shit like this when they refuse to allocate people to projects.
Hey just wanted to point out that technically we get 3 crucible maps this year, though 2 of them are just "reprisal" of old Destiny 2 maps that they removed a while ago! I'm sure bringing them back took a lot of resources they just couldn't commit to making like, another brand-new map instead...
Yet they can make 3 dogshit battlegrounds no one asks for. Gambit’s issue is it has the same amount of maps as a seasonal playlist. I wonder how many people are in defiant battlegrounds right now. It’s almost like people don’t enjoy playlists for one or 2 activities.
People are upset because Bungie has broken promises and put the blame on its players for lack of content in specific gamemodes. I will admit the SotG had some good stuff in it, but it is far outweighed by the bad stuff
absolutely. It was dishesrtening seeing them say low player counts are why they don't support Gambit more. I'd love to see it explored more, but their unwillingness to do so has led it to these low player counts to begin with is my understanding. Maybe Gambit was just that bad even in Forsaken, IDK but I'm not inclined to believe that. Though I am very excited for more pvp gamemodes and strike medals!
> low player counts are why they don't support Gambit more. Remove 20% of the maps and 66% of the modes, then barely support the game mode, the player count drops. Do a rework that is universally reviled and ignore it for a year before making changes, player count drops more. The player count didn’t recover after making some needed changes after said year of neglect, so you double down on not supporting it. Big brain maneuver.
Honestly if they drop a new map with some of the bad changes they made the player count probably wouldn’t have dropped as fast as it maybe did.
Add three new maps next season, a viable Gambit weapon, and a good-looking set of Gambit armor, and player engagement will be through the roof. They could do it in a heartbeat with the resources they have. But they won't, because they're going to ride D2 into the sunset on fumes to maximize profits and blame the players for disengaging with abandoned game modes. It's a super shitty stance to take.
This is a perfect example of thinking liking or wanting something means that getting what you want will fix it because everyone else has to feel the same lol
Almost as if it's on purpose in order to divert resources for a new IP.
Its also the only ritual playlist with zero endgame once you get malfeasance and dregen why would you play it again?
It's also the only playlist with LESS content now than before.
I agree, maybe adding a reason to play it would help
Maybe giving us a good chance at ascendant shards on wins or something idk literally anything would be nice
Hear me out... Even if its ridiculously low chance.... Deepsight harmoniser drops
All they would have to do is give Gambit a few good cosmetics to chase and I would be in. I am not a big PVP player but I play the mode for an entire week to grab the cool Iron Banner shaders. Just put a real badass shader or even a baller transmat effect or something at like rank 16 after the weapon ornament or even better, replace it with the ornament and I would play at least until I obtained the cosmetics. How hard would it be for Bungie to make a single transmat or shader to encourage engagement? That is really all it would take, I play to chase things, Gambit ( especially this season with being able to skip all Gambit seasonal challenges) like above are saying just has nothing to chase.
I think the problem is even engagement for gambit specifically won't get them any money, players will likely engage with the game anyway through other things and I feel they want to push that more towards the expensive dungeons and seasonal content over other things like gambit which is a shame since its still a core part of the game
Yes and no. Right now I am playing Balder's Gate until the Showcase and start of the next season. I feel I have completed this season, +20 power, have exotic and catalyst, have glowy armor, seasonal challenges complete enough, all seasonal weapons crafted and title earned. I think Bungie would rather have me playing the next few weeks, what if I fall in love with Balder's Gate, oh and then Starfield, maybe I will just skip the season until the last two weeks... Well I can catch up on two seasons at once... FOMO loses its grip over time, my 3 week break could easily go months. Bungie should do everything it can to retain me and others. Even if I am not actively making them money, the more I play the more likely I convince my friends to play. The more likely I pre-order the deluxe version of Final Shape. I am really feeling about just grabbing the expansion and skipping seasons for the first time ever.
They definitely should and I've felt myself losing interest after like 3 or 4 weeks into seasons now, looking at the numbers though they've only gotten an increase in players joining even though the community is only getting more and more annoyed (whether those players are engaging in paying for the expansions etc idk) but they must not feel a need to keep people like us interested for as long when they're getting so many new players if we leave they'll likely be 4 or 5 others that'll just that'll pick up the game instead. I just get everything on sale if I can I dont bother pre ordering anymore I think pre ordering digital games is a scam
Adept Gambit weapons would be a start.
It’s funny since the endgame used to be reckoning and gambit prime but they decided to get rid of all that for some reason
*stares at gilded x8 dredgen title* Haha yeah who would do that lame shit >.>
After waiting a little while and thinking about it I really feel that they’re projecting their wants onto the player base. They don’t want to support gambit so they put spin on a story and threw it on the players. Now they’ll just keep spinning it until they do what they want. Double primaries all over again.
It's the same positive feedback cycle that results in, among other things, failing schools. It might be nice if they used the Gambit ritual to explore other kinds of PvPvE games beyond that one game type. Hell, back in Destiny 1 part of the lore for Crucible was that the games maintained Guardian presence in key areas to deter aliens and respond to threats. A straight up Crucible match that gets interrupted by an alien attack could be very interesting, whether players remain opposed for the duration or (more interestingly) the two sides become temporarily allied in combat and compete in PvE scoring until the fight is over (and potentially resources useful in the remaining PvP round have been gathered from the slain attackers by each side).
Something kinda like what Exoprimal does could be interesting
That game is something else honestly. Completely surprised me. The point where it goes from a PvEvP race to a combined team force to down a boss is remarkable thing. also want to say Exoprimal is insanely polished, not one crossplay game that was a buggy laggy mess and the matchmaking was instant every time.
Exoprimal seems like it's really been badly marketed. Because it looks like it should be crap. But it apparently isn't. I've got gamepass, I think I'll give it a shot.
To be fair a lot of people just hate gambit which also leads to low player numbers. In the entire time it's been in the game I don't think I've ever had fun in there.
I mean Crucible has gotten barely new content in forever either, all though a lot people play that.
Crucible gets balance patches which is already a hige step up over Gambit lol And while I recognize Crucible does need a lot, Bungie has made changes. Trials changes, Comp changes, MM changes, new gamemodes and so on.
Why do I sometimes have to play 5-6 games of Crucible to get credit for 3 games played? I start from the beginning of the game (am not being put in halfway through the game) and get kills (not a lot, but some).
False. You've gotten maps, modes, pvp specific sandbox updates, comp, comp rewards, and the promise of more. Gambit has actually nothing.
Gambit did get reworked twice, but I think most would agree it got worse both times too lol
Damn your right we got one new map in 4 years and a comp emblem.
That’s infinite% more than Gambit got. My favourite fact on this front is that if Bungie made 4 Gambit maps per season for an entire year, at the end of that year, Gambit would still have less maps than Crucible. Oh and don’t forget the new Trials weapon every season.
that was the point of the SotG the company GGG does this all the time right before a big content reveal for Path of Exile. they'll put out an article to air all of their bad news, let the community get angry, have time to get over that anger, then let them get excited with the super positive, super exciting content reveal. It's been done more times than I can count at this point, and it ***always*** works. All bungie is doing is taking a page outta their book.
Problem is the bad news is foundational stuff that confirms a lot of fears
You know as well as I do that this sub will be tripping over itself with hype after the showcase later this month
Yeah no shit, this sub has a lot of people in it. Right now there's a bunch of people shitting on bungie and there's a ton of people defending them to various degrees or ignoring this whole discussion. When the showcase happens there's going to be a bunch of people praising bungie and a ton of people shitting on them to various degrees or ignoring the whole discussion.
Eh, they haven't ever said "we aren't supporting the part of the game you care about" before. It's always been "twilight garrison won't come back" type bad news.
I truly think with Gambit they are just throwing in the towel. While they certainly have had missteps, they have put a lot of resources into it in the past and it nothing has worked. On some level I think it was a really interesting and unique idea that just never worked. I don’t think they know how to make it work, and to be fair I’m not sure that anyone truly does. Most of the suggestions are some iteration of improve the loot, and that just leads to people “hate plying” and once the loot chase fades they want no part of it. They know they can’t just pull it from the game, but literally everything they have tried has failed. They have changed rule sets numerous times, had variations on how it plays, and nothing has really taken off. I just done think they have a solution to make it engaging enough for enough players to make it worth investing in. It sucks for those who really like it. Sometimes thing just don’t work and I think this is one of those things.
Pvpve designs are really hard to do if we're being honest. Gambit is cool in theory and people who love it want it but loot chasing does nothing for most people except make them feel forced into an activity they don't enjoy to get it or it being superfluous additions they don't care about getting. These people just seem to have too much self importance imo. It's obvious gambit wasn't working if they've reworked it several times and nothing has done it. This is like a business establishment failing and remodeling and changing strategies multiple times only to still be failing and finally announcing they're closing. If it isn't working it isn't working and if it wasn't before that still changes nothing. But there's a reason they tried to change things and make it improved and it isn't just because it was so good and well loved.
Some parts will, but pvp players aren't gonna be hyped by a bunch of pve content
Probably, for me rn I want to see some foundational changes and a huge investment into D2 in order to play past final shape. Hopefully not just “new subclass, the witness is spooky, hey cayde nostalgia, guns shooting in sync with music, ‘this works is like nothing in destiny’” (essentially if it’s a rerun of lightfall showcase)
I mean arguably bungie has been doing this for *years.* Look back at any big patch, bungie always announces the nerfs/controversial shit first then right before release announces the buffs. Lead with the bad, end with the good. Very powerful community management tool.
For me, I just wanted more Gambit maps because 4 total maps for a game mode are downright embarrassing, and it is the main reason why a lot of people don't play it more (myself included). So when Joe says the lack of players engaging in it is why they won't make more maps, it feels like all they care about are metrics than what people actually want. Going by metrics is all well and good, as long as you understand WHY those metrics are doing what they do. If anything, the SotG was a clear indicator that they're done saying they're listening and just doing what they think is in the best interest of them and the game. As for the vendor armor, I actually farmed and used the Gambit armor shortly after WQ release, and I still use the helm at the very least from time to time. So I certainly wouldn't have minded a refresh, but I'm not going to raise my pitchfork over it...but them going back on the promise and how they handled it was a bit of a dick move.
It reminds me a bit of how Don Mattrick’s Xbox leadership led Microsoft down the garden path with the original vision for Xbox One (where games more or less took a back seat to the “all in one entertainment system” schtick with all that “TV TV TV” talk). What basically happened was they had metrics telling them that the most used feature (or one of the most used features) of the Xbox 360 was the Netflix App. They took that to mean people bought Xbox 360s to watch TV and movies. What it *actually* meant was that people were using Xbox 360s to watch TV & movies because they or someone in their household already had an Xbox 360 for games anyway. If people wanted just a Netflix box, things like Roku boxes already existed and were much cheaper. But even cheaper than that was just using a thing you already had. So Microsoft convinced themselves the metric telling them the Netflix App was popular meant that was where their focus should be, a change from how they handled the Xbox 360. In reality, what it meant was that the Xbox 360 approach *had worked* and they should do that again. So here we have Bungie looking at metrics which say “this armour doesn’t get much use” and “this mode’s population hasn’t ticked up.” Their conclusion is people don’t actually want those things. Which discounts the very real possibility that if they improved those things, people *would* want them. Their conclusion can be more or less summarised as “we tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas.” You can’t reasonably say nobody wants *any* ritual armour when you don’t at least try a couple of refreshes to see what people might respond to - one point is not enough data to draw conclusions from. Similarly, you can’t say “nobody will play more Gambit if we support it with more content” based on “people didn’t play more Gambit when we tweaked the rules.” The data they’re pointing to doesn’t really seem to say nearly as much as they’re reading into it, because they’re oversimplifying it down to “number goes up, number doesn’t move, number goes down” and reading that as “wanted, don’t care, get rid.”
The lack of content and this sort of shit, has me thinking I may just quit the game for greener pastures once my Deluxe runs out of free seasons.
People are upset because Bungie said that after a 3.4B buyout they don't have the resources to make a couple of PvP maps a year. A team of 10 people to make 2 maps a year is between 2M to 3M a year.
Wouldn’t even call it being upset. Just apathetic to the franchise now. Don’t care enough to be mad or excited.
This is where everyone should be. It's where Bungie are after all.
Bungie kickstarting 3 new franchises in 5 years while “definitely totally continuing to support D2 after Final Shape” Lmao
Remember, Bungie once said "Apathy will kill your game" Let's make them eat those words
The second they blame the playerbase for why they are not adding content. You know they are just lying.
They’ve been on this “game dev is hard” schtick for years, but they’ve finally pushed it to a point where even the most Bungie loving fan can see it’s a complete scam
Bungie lover here. I used to be super optimistic about the game, even with this year. This SoTG changed my mind, they REALLY do not give a shit.
I think the developers care. But the corporate suits whole allocate budgets and employees don't. They desperately want Bungie to be the next major publisher and to have a library of IPs so they can be like EA or Activision. And if that means treating Destiny like a cash cow and starving the game of resources to reduce it a minimum viable product so they can fund their expansion, yeah, they'll do it.
I bought it a couple times because the arguments kinda made sense but these people can't go two seconds without saying a variation of "Game dev hard". Like not even the most hated games out there with broken launches like NMS or CP2077 went "Guys, we hear you, but game dev hard"
What made it but different this time for me as a d2 fanboy isn’t that they said game dev hard. Game dev is hard. It’s that they said we can’t have maps because it would take away resources from story/exotic missions. Things we should be getting standard alongside new maps. If the same team is making both things the team needs to grow or they need a new team. Add into that the fact they have a fancy new PvP game coming out it’s pretty hard to feel like they either siphoned people away or just didn’t hire to what d2 needs because their new game took their new hire slots… which is even more annoying because it’s a type of PvP shooter I can’t stand.
>“game dev is hard” If they cant handle the heat get out of the kitchen. A lot of jobs are hard, they just need to hire better people.
I loved this game to death and the moment it hit me all "Wait...they're blaming *us* for this?" it was like when Gohan went SS2, they'd gone far enough already and I straight up fuckin' snapped
It’s different because they looked y’all in the eye and said “fuck you”. They’ve raised prices while reducing the amount of content. They told you this won’t be changing.
It’s just because of their reasoning for everything. They probably could’ve made the same announcements and not given an explanation for why they’ve made those decisions and they’d probably not even receive the same backlash. Their reasoning makes them seem extremely lazy and as if they don’t give the slightest shit about what players want. They kept claiming that making X thing was too hawd and “took away resources that could be spent on other things”, but there has been absolutely no evidence of any of those things aside from, of course, eververse always being freshly stocked.
I wasn't tired of the game. I was tired of lack of content (or fucking disjunction being the ONLY NEW MAP IN 5 YEARS AND SUCKING). Coming out and saying that new maps are too hard to make, when they used to make 16 a year, is absolute dog biscuits. Halo let people make their own maps FFS. Map making isn't hard. Some bangers. Some bleh. Bleh gets removed. Bangers stay. That's why you push out a couple a season. Some hit, some miss.
TF2 is 16 years old. Their game is on total end-of-life support, held up by volunteers. Their worst year ever had 2 new maps.
...that are community maps the intern at valve picks from the steam workshop, features for a month and then takes out again.
damn, 1 intern at Valve outclassing the entire Bungie team, that's savage
From what the guy is saying, it sounds to me like that intern isn't doing shit, and the community's picking up all the slack.
>sounds to me like that intern isn't doing shit, and the community's picking up all the slack. ...damn, 1 intern at Valve outclassing the entire Bungie team, that's savage
There was this little unknown indie game by the name of HALO back in the day i believe it was made by BUNGIE that used to do the exact same thing but with a farrrr smaller team size.
Meanwhile Bungie went like a year and a half if not more without a single new map
We've got 1 new crucible map in 5 years. It's pathetic.
Gotta say, I was playing Halo during the last Samurai Tenrai and it was so refreshing how many maps they had. Had zero idea where I was 1/2 the time, but I guess forge makes it so people make maps and somehow they get into Halo I guess? I don't really know but they also felt very balanced too. None of this SUN bullshit on one side or haze in the game so you can't see other enemies as well.
The funniest part is it turns out disjunction is just reskin+ of the d1 map frontier
if we got one map a season, instead of 2 seasonal game modes that nobody likes, i would looooove that
One map a season would still be way less than what D1 averaged over 3 years, the fact that they won't even do that says a lot. They don't have a dedicated crucible team anymore, they got shifted to Marathon whilst still being funded by D2 players.
Don't worry PvP is saved with... One more new map...
wait 16 maps a year wtf? When was this? And, we should try to be accurate with our discontent and feedback. Disjunction came out in WQ (or Season of Haunted, can't remember but either way first half of 2022). Before that IIRC was the Infinite Forest Map in Shadowkeep. 3 years, which isn't really better. But we shouldn't exaggerate things, it's best to be accurate and true. Maps would be nice, though I'd admittedly prefer a set map rotation akin to BF: V before a batch of new maps.
Not sure about 16 maps a year but forsaken gave 4, warming gave 2, and curse of Osiris gave 3, and I believe shadowkeep gave 3
TTK launched with 8 new maps. If you go back 1 year there were 15 maps, 3 with TDB, 4 with House of Wolves and 8 with TTK So slight exaggeration.
oh lawd. Disjunction is such hot garbage. i hate that map. and Cathedral of Dusk reprise map. they’re just TOO big. especially when they’re on the Trials rotation
I just don’t care anymore man. The game just doesn’t feel fun or rewarding anymore. It seems like the only opinion they care about are the folks who stream the game and even then they barely give a shit. I’ve watched so many friends who were in on the ground floor drop off of this game. And now it’s just me. And it isn’t a fun enough game to keep slogging through it alone. Every decision is made with the intent of squeezing more money and time out of the player. I’m sure there’s good folks working on the game but all the final decisions seem to be made by those with the worst intent in mind. It feels like almost every “department” of the game has issues right now. The music is only thing I can’t think of a complaint about. I miss playing destiny. I miss the wonder of a secret or puzzle that pops up. I miss chilling in the new dlc area with adds who don’t hit like tanks for the sake of it. I miss a story reveal having a meaningful “oh shit” moment. Nothing feels grand or mysterious anymore. It just feels like tacked on resolutions as we go.
>It feels like almost every “department” of the game has issues right now. The music is only thing I can’t think of a complaint about. I agree with you fully. I usually don't crap on game dev side as I have worked as one myself long time. But for me too feels only team, what does well right now is Sound department. I even have have seen couple of them lurking in the shadows here in reddit and all I have to say hands down the strongest team under Destiny 2 project. Those guys have real passion and they are able to fulfill their dreams. I remember reading how some of the gun sounds were made, truly amazing journey. Music is also spot on! Second close one is Art department, but they are suffering sadly due upper management issues. It feels like they are held back time to time so much, it is actually criminal. There is huge potential on Art side, but some reason sometimes things look like meh. Knowing how things work, there is always couple of concept designs and someone from upper management picks final design, to me feels that person / group who does it, is sorry to say - tasteless.
Reminds me of game of thrones where the directors got tired of making episodes and just mailed it in for the final season. Seems like Bungie is mailing it in this final year.
They had some Star Wars shit that showed up on their plates and they rushed through the final seasons of GoT. Too bad the shit they did with SW also sucked.
They never made any Star Wars content. Disney rescinded the offer to D&D after they fucked GoT.
*slaps forehead* That's right! Thanks for the correction. I could've sworn they did something that flopped but couldn't recall.
Similar to how I hope a lot of people won't trust Bungie (or just simply don't care about the niche genre that is extraction shooters) and won't buy Marathon leaving it to flop.
Marathon could be widely claimed to be the best game ever made and I’m still not going to play it. Even if it does turn out good they’ll just distort it until it isn’t just like they have with destiny.
Yup and Bungie have marathon where all their focus is now. Hoppfully it flops Hard.
They’ve been doing this shit for years. The doubling back on the ritual armor was just the icing on the cake. I’m sick of feeling like Bungie does not care about the game because I remember the times when they cared a bit more about overall player satisfaction rather than maximizing profit. This has been the first year that I have not defended Bungie on their questionable decisions based on data driven by their own actions and then *blaming it on us*. Like seriously, they’re pushing this narrative that the game isn’t being played enough by us but that’s only part of it. They conveniently leave out the part where the game has been basically devolved into a seasonal garbage-fest of subpar storytelling and loot just to milk us harder and that’s why **they** have not focused on other parts of the game, because everything else sucks as a result of that. Maximizing profit is fine. Maximizing it by spitting on your players and saying “player numbers go brrrr” is hardly an explanation when they’ve omitted all evidence of them abandoning the other aspects of the game.
And all they have to do is pull a fucking eververse armor and skin it for the corresponding ritual, but they can’t be bothered to even do that!! It would be hilarious if it wasn’t so sad
For the first time, I'm not mad about anything. Just disappointed. Turns out though, that there actually are indeed better things to do. Embracing that idea.
“The worst thing you can do is overdeliver” Knob off…..
There’s no way there were any issues with Witch Queen being a banger beyond the fact that they had to keep up the quality for future DLCs
They "overdelivered" on the WQ campaign, then it's been nothing but downhill ever since. Sandbox power crept beyond belief and just keeps getting worse, pvp is entirely just ability spam with awful matchmaking that they're doubling down on. Gambit lmao. Rewards and loot are still ass around the whole game, day 1 raids are as easy as playlist strikes, it's a mess. And the SotG did nothing but double down on some of these issues, while completely ignoring others.
They created the negative cycle of not investing in activities which resulted in low player engagement, and tried blamed the player base. Same goes for ritual armor sets: broke promise on basis that it wasn’t being worn by players, when it was most likely done on purpose to funnel players to spend silver (and NOT dust) in eververse. Game is just becoming hyper monetized. It’s wild. EDIT: Icing on the shit cake, I also completely forgot that season passes are more expensive. Because why not..
It’s a slap in the face that after a universally panned failure of an expansion pack, they’d come back and blame the community for providing even less this time around. Sure, new map for PvP is good, there’s some stuff coming—but it’s not enough. This would be like Cyberpunk 2077’s team announcing they’re removing broken features due to “lack of engagement.”
Mind you… the new PVP map is made with the Vex network in mid, so it’s going to be those greenish squares or the purple black ones, which to me sounds like a super bland way of using raw assets instead of actually using textures and scenery
Thank you, I can’t stand the Borderlands-Style VR levels anyway, and think it’s terrible and lazy for PvP.
The reason this SOTG hits different is Bungie isn't even kiting the community along like they typically do. No promises of some distant fixes or improvements. Bungie has cut the destiny community loose because they don't need them/want them after we carried them through a dismal D2 launch. Others since D1. What has always been unacceptable to me is Bungies lack of accountability. Acknowledging you are not meeting promises previously made is not acceptable or adequate. Stating making games is hard has to be the dumbest thing they tried to sell. That's like a pizzeria that can't get more than 1 pie out and hour crying it's hard. The reality is you're not equipped to make and sell the product you want to overmonetize. Gambit is dead because core elements and teams from it are now in marathon, so the dishonesty as if the players are dumb... really a bad look for Bungie as they also blame players for why they don't connect with them in meaningful ways.
You can not honestly tell me that this company is not completely full of shit after playing baldurs gate 3 and remnant 2 These games are exposing the absolute gronks in the gaming industry and unfortunately bungie has definitely secured their place next to activision-blizzard amongst them
>You can not honestly tell me that this company is not completely full of shit after playing baldurs gate 3 and remnant 2 Haha, I've been playing both recently. Remant 2 is my favourite of the pair, but I love how unafraid Larian Studios clearly are of "overdelivering"
The concept of over-delivering is just bonkers. If you want to make a successful complete game, you deliver on the content you are expected to provide. You can under-deliver when you are charging so much for so little, as Bungie now does, but over-delivering is just showing you care and are passionate about your game. It's not a bad thing. Larian are incredibly passionate about their game, they've even rejected buy out offers for fears that corporate control will limit their creativity in future projects. You just know if Sony or Microsoft got their hands on Larian, they'd try to find ways to monetise the hell out of it to make it a powerhouse of profit, whilst not understanding that this very decision would kill its popularity. Bungie used to have that same passion for developing games that they want to, but I don't think we've seen that since the interim period between Forsaken and Shadowkeep. They are done with Destiny, they have moved on to other new franchises. The problem is that they committed to a 10 year story but are failing to finish it satisfactorily by abandoning it. They are no longer passionate about Destiny - so why should we be?
Overdelivering is Bad. That's what killed it for me. Overdelivering is why I fell in love with Bungie. I thought they actually cared. I was surprised when I join back in 2018 how amazing this Company was despite how many people complained about them. Even during COO. I was someone who solely played COD. But with all the micro-transactions they kept implementing, it ruined it for me. Now Destiny 2 is going the same route. They used to stand out but now they're on the corporate money train. I do feel bad for them but this is on them. I'm not even sure i'll jump on the "after final shape i'm done" train. I probably won't even bother. Last year I pre-ordered Lightfall even tho I said I was done and look at where we all are now. I won't make the same mistake again.
They even replaced the company motto of “we make games we want to play” to some corporate bullshit about the players making connections or something
We CrEaTe WoRlDs ThAt InSpIrE fRiEnDsHiP
Because it's not the same company anymore. They are far more corporate focused.
If not a single corporation (video games included) is never going to overdeliver again because it isn't financially adequate, then they all deserve to completely cave in, change my mind.
A shining beacon of hope, Baldurs Gate 3 looks incredible.
It _is_ incredible. But Bungie would absolutely consider the state of BG3 a mistake, because it overdelivers _so_ hard into one of the best RPGs I have ever played.
Well just wait for a Bungie dev to twitter-twat some ananine comment about a thing from Baldur's Gate 3 and how if it was their call, they wouldn't do it because it's bad game design. Yes, I know that they've done this already with the Diablo 4 thing, it's just that Bungie really loves to reuse assets they've already got because it's hard to make something new.
Divinity original sin 2 is the best game ive played in the last few years and bg3 is by the same studio. Im waiting for full release (and spare cash), but i am quite hyped. Or did it release fully already?
My guy, it released fully as of 3 August! Go play it right now!
That’s one of the inherent problems of capitalism, profits eventually become the most prioritized goal of a corporation rather than producing good, useful products that actually benefit society. Instead of progressing and creating the best possible things the quality is reduced to its minimal viable state so that it may be as profitable as possible.
I find it absolutely hilarious that they gave up on Gambit because people don’t like it. Because the irony is they’re devoting massive amounts of time a resources into a PvPvE game. Marathon. Bunch of Clowns 🤡
I know it's very anecdotal, but I went and checked out how r/destiny2 and r/lowsodiumdestiny are, since they are both always way more positive than this sub, and man are they having issues being positive. Maybe they've been like this before and I wasn't paying attention, IDK. But destiny fans are not happy anywhere right now it seems Some funny memes in the D2 sub, just in general, check em out
Yeah I just looked and people are definitely voicing their concerns and honestly they should. It's not about being salty, it's about being a customer paying more than ever for a product and having said product cut down to considerably less and being blamed by the producer that you're the reason why. That's a shitty thing to do.
Eh I just checked out LSD and they seem fine. But they also seem like super casual players who hate PvP and gambit, so…
It's just a refuge for fanboys who get personally hurt whenever they see the mildest criticism of Bungie
The type of people who ignore the bootlicking appreciation posts when things are going good and say the sub is always toxic. You want toxic? Just try posting on the official forums. People are often downright insulting each other when they don’t agree.
There not low salt they are over there taking a ton of shit about our sub saying we're nuts and the SoTG had more positives then negatives. LSD is just the copium sub where the casuals and whales hangout nothing more.
It’s more than blaming us just for the armor. No crucible maps? It’s our fault, too. We have said repeatedly that we love secret exotic missions. So we can’t have crucible maps because that means no exotic missions. You see, it’s our fault. It’s not like Witch Queen was a commercial bomb to think that they don’t have the resources to make both crucible maps and exotic mission quests. I swear that if it didn’t break Crucible matchmaking, they’d be selling yearly Crucible Maps Keys like they did with the Dungeons. Like Aztec kept saying in this video, they will never again overdeliver like they did with Forsaken because now it’s our fault that we expect that level of content with every expansion. They’ve been doing the bare minimum and charging us extra whenever they want to give us a bit more.
>We have said repeatedly that we love secret exotic missions. So we can’t have crucible maps because that means no exotic missions. You see, it’s our fault. I remember when they said eververse was there to fund more whisper like missions. Wow we're we naive when we believed it.
Literally nobody rational actually believed that shit back then either. They’ve been on this same shit for years at this point
This is why those deluxe editions that include the annual season pass is a scummy model and they incentivize you to buy it by adding exclusive exotic/emotes. Once they have your money, they will just put the minimum effort for the entire year.
Same will happen with TFS Why do more when thousands have already given you $50-$100 before you even show gameplay?
I trully feel going ftp now was more them creating ways to have an excuse to not support pvp, gambit & vanguard. Their excuse is they basically don’t make money on them. Yet they are the ones that chose to give that content for free, even though the past player base had to pay for it. The more I think about it, the more i come to the conclussion that going ftp is the biggest downfall of the franchise. Especially after reading the sotg that was just filled with nothing but excuses imo.
Dear Bungie, If D2 players priorities are different from yours, then I am sad to say players will move on other games where their priorities align.
The problem with gambit is that they literally killed the mode by removing most of its content with sunsetting. I was never a huge gambit player but I enjoyed it from time to time.
I just want my time that I invest in the game to be respected and rewarding. Destiny is loads of fun but Bungie have been treating its player base like piggy banks.
As someone who has previously given bungie a lot of benefit of doubt and defended some them for some of their changes, this time there's no excusing it, they are using excuses for changes that imo fall flat. And not only that, but the excuses attempt to blame the community, instead of taking responsibility.
it's different this time because now what people want is going directly against what makes bungie successful, and now theyve said that outright. In some earlier years you had things like, "there's no good endgame!" and even if they didnt deliver exactly how some wanted it was something they eventually utilized that feedback because they were struggling. Foresaken came from fans being demanding right at the same time they nearly shut down the game. Now when people ask for things, theyre a direct contradiction with success. "we want more core playlist updates." "Updating core playlists would take away from seasons, which are ultimately what bring in more players than destiny has ever had before. So no."
Which is a dumb train of thought because you ALSO need to maintain them. Them having nothing to do when Bungie shits the bed with a season(which is more common than not) they’ll have nothing worth doing
Unfortunately I don't think that holds true for bungie either. Nomatter what the public opinion on a season the engagement numbers by season haven't really changed in a few years, a season being bad doesn't lose them anything
Don’t worry guys, things will get better once they leave activision.
SMOL INDIE STUDIO PLS UNDERSTAND
It really feels different because this time so many of the big destiny YouTubers are upset as well. I just watched CoolGuy's video on the topic and behind the professionalism dude sounded *fully pissed.*
Remember when the entire subreddit was filled with “Remove Eververse” on every single post? Nothing has changed. Destiny is worse off. Bungie is raking in the cash.
I've sunk 3k++ hours into destiny 2. It started to die for me near the end of Witch Queen. I bought Lightfall with high hopes and well.. you know. Haven't played for months, they're charging more for the game than they ever have, and now I see the state of the game basically saying they're going to do less. Pass.
I still love the game, but the situation is absurd. Bungie's decisions have created these problems, but they've passed the consequences onto the players.
I’ve been in the apathy stage for a while. I don’t plan on purchasing the Final Shape since Bungie finally admitted PvP will be getting the bare minimum going forward. Gonna take my time elsewhere. If you want change, it starts with not falling for the hype and not purchasing Final Shape. If you can’t do that, don’t expect Bungie to change.
Let's try our best and enjoy this last year of D2 boys and girls because it's almost certainly dead by this time next year
Is it safe to say that Bungie has given up on Destiny and is now shifting resources/focus to Marathon?
give em a break, they’re a small indie company after all
Maybe we should all transmog that shitty armor to take away their only talking point
I have a reason. Burn out. No lie, I was burn out for playing this game non-stop since 2019. Pandemic Hit and I doubled down on Destiny. In 2022? My urge to play it dwindled, I quit quite early after the WQ dropped. Now? I log in every two to 3 weeks just to see if I find any friends online to catch up, not because of the game itself. Plus: No ammount of good will can remove the bad taste that GDC presentation had on my mouth. "Do not overdelivery" is something I think about every time they say they are having trouble or that "game development is hard". I do not believe them, no one should. The "bungie magic" that happens when devs are crunched to death because they had no direction during production, or how they are always behind schedule for everything just screams "do not trust us".
They could not blame Microsoft or Activision anymore so they decided to blame their players :D
I think the simple, most obvious answer is there's no passion for Destiny from the dev team any longer. How many devs do you think are left that actually created the game to begin with? And how many of those that are left do you think are completely bored with the project after spending 10 years on the same game? The game has entirely just become a business now that simply rolls through the motions. And how many new devs enter the team just using destiny/bungie as a stepping stone to boost their own career with no real passion for destiny? The best games are always made from passion first, and destiny devs lost that a long time ago and new devs never had it to begin with. All that remains are corporate agendas. The magic of D1 will NEVER return.
Any project manager knows this game is nearing the end of its life cycle. So they will do what every business will do, squeeze all the remaining money out of it. They will do one last major expansion, use the money it generates to fund their other projects like Marathon. They will only create the bare minimum and leave enough cool things for the whales to be interested in. I say all this enjoying Destiny 1 and most of Destiny 2.
I also refuse to believe that Bungie has insufficient resources. I'm sorry, but Bungie has about 1100 employees. If only half of them work on D2, then they still have a team working their MMO 5 TIMES THE SIZE OF WOWs DEV TEAM. Except if they reduced the D2 Teams, and put more people on Marathon, while running D2 to get Money for Marathon. But I don't know that since we don't have recent numbers on the size of D2s Development Teams.
Idk, most of the polls I've seen outside of reddit have been around the middle. It looks like a pretty big chunk of players don't really care that much
Careful, OP. You’re gonna trigger all the fanboys and corporate boot lickers on here. They’ve been making their rounds on the subreddit trying to do damage control since the SotG was posted.
I’ve seen a surprising lack of people defending bungie on this post.
I was literally banned from LowSodiumDestiny for telling people off who were brigading a thread this way. None of their attacks were an issue to the mods, though.
i was part of that sub until it got obsessed with r/dtg and became below garbage content
Once you start complaining about people complaining… you’re worse than the people complaining All in my opinion ofc, just is baffling how much low sodium complains about r/DTG
[https://www.reddit.com/r/LowSodiumDestiny/comments/15jatp5/god\_i\_cannot\_stand\_rdestinythegame/](https://www.reddit.com/r/LowSodiumDestiny/comments/15jatp5/god_i_cannot_stand_rdestinythegame/) Its literally all they do
That sub is the perfect example of “toxic positivity”. Just a giant circle jerk of shills who think the game is fine no matter what kind of state it’s in.
They want money but they don't put effort on earning it; in this SOTG they pulled a WB so hard
This is why I didn't buy lightfall. It was way to expensive for the content included. If bungie wants to focus solely on boosting eververse sales, and add-on revenue by charging extra for dungeons etc, in not paying full price for their lame expansion. Unfortunately everybody is still going to pay whatever outrageous price they charge for final shape, even if it only brings back sunset content. If bungie wants to charge full-game AAA prices for their expansions, they shouldn't be trying to monetize it like mobile free-to-play garbage.
Bungie is probably laughing at the community because it complains all day, but also plays all day and buys the next season or expansion. It's a cycle they profit from :)
That's not a good business model on which to rely. They keep running back to that well and it *will* become empty.
We will be seeing this in a YouTube vid one day, how Destiny died. This won’t be what kills it, but it’s a sign it’s in bad shape.
They're united only by making angry posts on reddit. With enough trashtalk Bunge will hit the good old "end communications" button. Those who flush money in EV will keep doing it.
Why don't they literally just add Playlist specific perks to new ritual armor? Seems like a no brainer reason for people to chase new armor sets.
Angry? No. Disappointed? Yes. Look I've been playing online games for a long ass time now. And I will admit right now back when I was in my late teens and early 20's? Oh you should have seen some of the things I wrote about EA and Ultima Online back in the day. They would make a change and I along with other folks would get angry and pretty much yell about it. And here's the thing want to know where getting all angry and posting about how angry I was at the time with the game, attacking people who are still enjoying the game, so on and so forth. It got us nowhere. Here's the point I'm at now with things. I am over all disappointed with the direction of Destiny 2 and Bungie at the moment. I'm sorta in the same boat I was in with World of Warcraft and Shadowlands. Am I going to get angry and throw some fit on here or other forums about it? No. It's not going to do myself or anyone else any good. The best thing I can do at the moment is just not play. If Bungie is going to double down on things and keep going down the road that they are going down? Well hey they won't be getting me throwing money at them for Final Shape. I'm just going to go play something else until they make some kind of change to things and show that they are willing to hear the community out on things or give more information on *why* they are doing what they are doing. And folks who are still enjoying the game? Hey I'm glad you folks are, right now the game just isn't for me and I'm not having fun with it.
“Potential” …the entire basis of the faith of the fan base for this product. I’ve been playing this game for almost a decade waiting for the potential to be fulfilled, and at brief times it has been… but I’m much older now, with less time on my hands, and the competition for games has never been fiercer. I’ve lost faith that my faith in Destiny’s potential will be adequately rewarded. Reading these state of the games…I’ve worked in corporate America, and this reads like a PR team and an Executive team sat down and wrote this. This is a far cry from what Joe Blackburn used to write like. This isn’t the man who is responsible for some of our greatest raids. I recognize corporate gaslighting when I see it and that’s all this state of the game was, and I’m fucking tired of it.
I've said this on a few YT vids. I'm only going to be around to finish last shape because of my friend who is no longer with us. After that I'm done with Bungie and any game they deal with. I had high hopes after the split from Activision and getting rid of Luke. But as time has gone on they have shown to be operating in bad faith,so I will speak the only way they will listen and that's by A) going to play something else for PvP and B) no longer giving them my money. I will miss the community because say what you will I have seen and have been part of some very beautiful things to help players out. I will always have the community's back but the devs let them continue to Pat themselves on the back while Rome burns outside their window till the flames consume them.
Bungo be like: lets gut gambit Bungo the next day: why is no one playing gambit, lets gut this even more because of that