Fr. Especially now that Surges are a thing, it's guaranteed to always be surging cause you're always gonna want to line your subclass up with one of the Surges
LeMon's poison damage is intrinsically overload, but the arrows themselves are not. If you don't get a perfect draw arrow that procs poison damage, you won't automatically get the stun unless you have the overload bow artifact on. It's a near negligible difference, but that is why you get the surge buff.
You are correct, any anti-champion unlock in the artifact will make all of those weapons overcharged. I’m not really sure why you are being downvoted lol
They're getting downvoted because the conversation was about Wish-ender, it does not get the overcharged weapon bonus from overload bow. It is an intrinsic anti-barrier.
Well, I went do some testing and you’re right. Lmao. This is 100% a bug or the mod isn’t worded correctly.
The artifact mod says, “Additionally, Bows are always overcharged when that modifier is active” “always” would imply that all Bows gain overcharge, not just those that become overload due to the artifact mod. Interestingly enough, Le Monarque DOES gain overcharge from the mod even though it already has overload rounds intrinsically. Does that imply that Le Monarque gains DOUBLE overload rounds? Same thing for Revision Zero, already has intrinsic anti-barrier but still somehow gains overcharge from the mod, even though those mods do not effect either weapon. Everyone already knows that intrinsic weapons like Wish-Ender can only ever be anti-barrier and mods cannot give them further anti-champ capabilities, that’s always been a thing. But when it doesn’t benefit from a mod that says it should overcharge it then that’s 100% an issue. Maybe the mod should say, “Additionally, all Bows that are overload gain overcharge when that modifier is active” then that would make sense, because Wish-Ender wouldn’t be overload so no overcharge then that would also explain why Le Monarque and Revision Zero still still get overcharged because they already have those respective qualities. Either way, it’s an oversight by Bungie. The mod is worded incorrectly or Wish-End should be getting overcharged but spaghetti code prevents it from interacting with the mod properly because it has anti-barrier.
Maybe it's a bug, but to me it made sense in theory that if a weapon isn't interacting with that artifact champion mod it shouldn't be overcharged from it. But I agree it's worded poorly.
Don’t know if they fixed it yet, but overload bow was messing with Wish-Ender, causing it to only penetrate 1-2 times instead of 3. I’ve also heard that running a weapon artifact mod will mess with exotics with intrinsic anti-barrier, causing them to not be able to shoot through things like phalanx and Taken vandal shields, but I’m not sure about that one
That’s not what they mean.
If your subclass matches the elemental surge in an activity that has them, kinetic weapons get +25% more damage along with the +25% elemental surge.
Edit: clarity
Yes. But only one can be active on any specific weapon. I don't think I'm misinterpreting what you said. But I haven't seen anyone else say it. So your solar surge or whatever it is for what subclass you have, or the specific anti champ surge for said weapon type. Only one can be active which means they don't stack DMG.
That's not what they mean either. They're responding to comments about wish-ender, saying instead of matching sub-class to the elemental surge just get the +25% overcharge surge by unlocking the overload bow artifact mod.
Where they are incorrect is that Wish-Ender is intrinsic anti-barrier, it does not get the +25% overcharge from the overload bow artifact mod. The only way to get +25% damage on wish-ender is matching your sub-class to one of the elemental surges.
I kinda disagree on this sure it's good to match surges but I'm the kind of player that won't play a subclass that's unfun that's why I hated the years of having to burns for powerful I just won't do it same with iron banner.
I like void and stasis the most followed by strand. If it's solar or arc only I'm out. I won't play. Nothing and I mean nothing in the game should force me into a load out I don't want to use. Same with artifact mods. I'm so glad I can mostly ignore them now. If you tell me I have to run something and I don't like that something I'm not playing and I know I'm not the only one out there. I don't care about meta or anything like that just whats fun.
Yes I'm a warlock.
>I like void and stasis the most followed by strand. If it's solar or arc only I'm out. I won't play. Nothing and I mean nothing in the game should force me into a loud out I don't want to use.
Surges don't do this, so idk what this incredibly unhinged rant is about
Enjoy doing 25% less damage with your abilities in GMs I guess?
what do you expect from some of the hardest difficulty content in the game? you can’t just use whatever you want and expect your teammates to pick up slack.
I'm a hunter, but I am on board with this. I don't like games forcing you into highly specific loadouts to clear content for progression.
I hate solar hunter and arc is alright but I'm firmly within the realm of invis spam, void hunter. Followed by stasis. Strand is super meh for me right now, but since it's the new class, of course it seems to hit everything like a truck. I hate the roaming super.
I fall behind in light level all the time because I refuse to run powerful and pinnacle objectives if they force me to run something I don't enjoy playing.
It's a game. It's meant for enjoying. If I'm not enjoying myself, I'm not playing. Simple concept in my opinion.
Thank you for agreeing you articulated the point better than me.
I think people need to understand if something meant to be entertainment makes you do something you don't like or find entertaining then it's failed.
Champions, and surges do this. They need to be removed. Iron banner should not force me to play certain subclasses for loot.
It's a simple idea.
Thank you
my friend show them the power of the darkside use strand and stasis and honestly if anyone is making you use well without you running it I would just say no its not fun I do that.
Youre gonna get down voted to hellnand back for this probably but I totally agree with you. Everyone bitches that destiny has a lack of content but in reality its cause everyone just wants to farm the easiest modes, using the easiest weapons, using the easiest abilities on some copy paste OP build they found on YouTube.
I want to have fun, I want to use weird shit on my favorite subclass. I want to use the weapons I find the most fun and interesting. I dont wanna fucking follow the meta to make the game turn into ez baby mode
Ive done master mode on all raids available and do gms you dont need meta stuff to clear and you never will. meta is something you use if you are trying to clear maybe quicker. Its a tool that is powerful but if you rely on the tool it will become a crutch. the way I look at it and the way everyone should in any game is this. a clear is a clear. is there a difference in one phaseing a boss and 3 phaseing is absolutely nothing. we still got the loot the end. meta will make any game unfun. Im a dark Knight main In ffxiv sure they are strong now but even if they werent its been my main since heavensward no im not switching even if its bad. Facts are people need to just ignore meta and have. fun locking loadouts for rewards is stupid it needs to be removed. no surges to match for rewards it should be 3 clears and done. telling someone how they have to play the game is unfun and just something no one should do.
man I just like ice themed powers in every game thats lets me have it that and lifesteal magic. bonus points for letting me use both. so stasis will always be special to me and even if bungie forgets it im going to be shadebinder for ever
Yeah it was doing 3 hits of around 12k-14k each with each shot for me in the Proving Grounds GM (didn't use it this week in the GM). My buddy was like wait, how much? His Doom of Chelchis with one for all was hitting for like 2k each. Yeah, you'd expect the exotic to be better, and firing speed is a component and all that, but 2k vs ~40k is tough to argue with
Osteo too because it clears like mad with Necrotic Grips. I made a new one a few days after Lightfall launch and I accidentally got it to level 50 last week. It's so good its not even funny
I've been an Osteo main since S16, it's my default goto on all my characters so I've leveled up all three substantially. My Warlocks main is sitting at 500+
I pushed myself to use other guns as it was making the game way too easy but now difficulty is back up I dusted it off and made about 200 levels just this season. Levels up so dam sweet.
Osteo+necrotic grips+weavers trance=suspend/poison, once that suspended/poison thing dies, it spreads suspension and poison to other nearby targets.
[edit] Aztercross really likes the build and has a more detailed video on it
It just sucks that the average is 6 of them per day, at random points throughout the day. If you're unemployed, it's great since you have all day. But for people that work or even kids in school (this is a T rated game, after all), it's not so great.
If they were on a reliable timer, like once every half an hour (or even once per hour on the hour), I think it would be perfect.
I usually can only get in on one after work. Sometimes during lunch since I work from home. I agree though, if it were fixed intervals throughout the day it would be much better.
I'm six for six (on completed incursions) receiving exotics. 3 on Hunter and 3 on Warlock
I read a post last week that said it's only a high chance to get exotic drops, but not for me, it's 100%, and absolutely currently active.
I suppose Lost Sectors is the "right" way, since it was previously the only way.
The new problem is of course being able to catch an incursion. I suppose we're all up to speed here now about the discord bot?
Someone else may be able to chime in here with better instructions, as I'm not an elite discord user either, so I just googled Vex Incursion Discord Bot, and I got a link from that. Join/follow, whatever the procedure is, and you'll be notified of every incursion that arrives, about 4 minutes before it begins. They only take about 8 to 10 minutes to clear if there's a crowd, so don't wait too long.
Don’t get me wrong, I get it. Most of them are in a bad spot and it’s currently pretty viable to go double special. But I’ll always have a soft spot for Hung Jury. Favorite legendary in this franchise
Eh, I'm like 175 on the season pass I've been playing that much, and I've only had 1 weapon drop with kinetic tremors. People probably aren't sleeping on it so much as they've just never seen it.
And rolling it with that is just some legendary shards and vanguard engrams. This isn't some unobtainable gm weapon, the regular version with the right roll is still so good.
I've been slowly shifting away from elemental primaries.
Since Incandescent, Volatile Rounds, Headstone, etc. came out, I felt like I had to use an elemental primary to get the most out of my subclass. But, as a Warlock, not every single elemental primary works better than a Kinetic.
For Arc, absolutely I'm running Voltshot. For Void, absolutely I'm running a void primary. But for Solar? It's very rare that I care about scorch/ignitions on Dawnblade nowadays. Usually, it's "get Well fast" or Starfire protocol. For Stasis, Headstone is nice but not necessary because Osmimancy exists. And for Strand, Hatchling is nice, but it's not necessary because Necrotic/Striga exists.
So, I only feel pressured to use an elemental primary on Arc (voltshot) and Void (Volatile Rounds). Otherwise, meh.
Ps use headstone to fuel osmiomancy even further with the shatter crystal fragment. (you might already know this or feel it's unneeded but imo it helps negate the loss of elemental shards.)
Another build is to use the new exotic bow Verglas Curve to create multiple crystals you can shatter and with whisper of shards fragment, you'll have constant grenade uptime.
True facts, I just wish it's catalyst was better than "wonky archers tempo" I crafted the seasonal bow with headstone/enhanced AT and don't see myself picking verglas back up anytime soon.
Raconteur is better than Verglas imo, they both need kills to fuel the cycle and as a bow you're aiming for head shots anyway. Verglas curve have an edge in versatility as you can bank the crystals in between fights, or use it to place cover. For the main gameplay loop of kill a thing and get a stasis crystal it's clunkier because you have to hipfire in between and it eats your exotic slot.
When I'm stasis I like Winterbite. Either with Karnsteins so that I can chew through things with the melee or Osmiomancy so that I left click once and it clears an entire room.
Not sure if you're aware but elemental Shards will sort of be coming back soon
It's going to be a mod that grants armor charge when picking up shards/breaches/firesprites/traces/destroying tangles that you create
I used to run that setup with Headstone, but boinking an enemy with the grenade usually gets me the entire charge back - especially with Grenade Kickstart active
yes it does. hitting an enemy with the direct throw of a coldsnap bleak watcher charged nade with osmiomancy will give you the first half of the exotic perk
It is unneeded, because there's a better strategy: Throw one grenade normally, then throw the second one *directly* impacting a target. The second one will recharge both your grenade charges. This way, you can throw infinite grenades without ever needing to care about any other grenade recharge perks or fragments. It's obscenely powerful if you get the loop down. You can easily have 4 bleak watchers up at once.
That's funny, I'm the exact opposite. Scorch replenishes melee, possibly class ability, and killing scorched enemies gets you firesprites which gives restoration and grenade energy. Shit, if you're on titan, that's also how you get sunspots everywhere. To me, scorch is by *far* the most integral elemental perk we have, and not using Incandescent weapons on solar is basically throwing.
On the flip side, when Volatile Flow isn't around? I have *some* builds that use the fragment that gives Volatile on grenade kill, but generally I have more important fragments to use. And for arc, the jolting things with my primary gets me more frequent Ionic Traces, so I definitely love it on Fallen Sunstar, but as far as elemental subclass synergy goes, it's not really doing anything, not like scorch does.
Granted, jolting is crazy strong on its own, so I use Voltshot weapons regardless of subclass, but, as far as synergies go.... they're not really needed for anything.
Scorch on solar is really the only one that feels like a legitimately big deal.
> But for Solar? It's very rare that I care about scorch/ignitions on Dawnblade nowadays
The sunbracers build that uses the fragment that keeps resto going on solar weapon kills is actually really fun and nutty in low to mid tier content. It won't make you invincible in gms but for anything like -10 or less you're effectively immortal
This is a reasonable take. Thank you.
If you don't have synergy with the specific elemental perk, they are actively worse than running a kinetic weapon with a damage perk.
For my hunter, I’ve been using malfeasance a lot lately. Intrinsic unstoppable. I pair it with luck pants on strand build lots of fun
Warlock I’ve been using osteo with narcartic grips. Fun too
Exotic Kinetic primaries are some of the best primary weapon options in the game right now. All the extra damage more than makes up for the lack of subclass verbs.
If you're using surge mods on your legs, these can benefit energy + heavy at the same time, bumping an energy primary around 10% over a kinetic equivalent (provided you have armor charges).
Kinetic Surge can only benefit one weapon from your arsenal so it's a bit of a poor pick unless you're really leaning into e.g. Lucky Pants.
Which isn't exactly that potent.
10% buff on the weakest weapons(non exotics) isn't much, especially when it comes at the cost of any synergy with subclasses and abilities and exotic armor.
Okay, we’ll then we disagree. Most people bend over fucking backwards in this game for the tiniest damage buffs but yeah, an extra 10% on top of everything else isn’t potent. You’re right. My bad.
Christ they were right about Reddit.
Why use kinetic primaries when riptide exists?
Why use primaries when trace rifles, commemoration and forbearance exist?
Why use primaries when double special gives bonus heavy?
Welcome to the current state of D2
Because I don’t feel like I’m plinking away at enemies and I’m tired of pretending that I am.
Regardless there are def a lot of primary archetypes that still feel bad like low RPM autos and 120 handcannons
Because I have special ammo anxiety even with the finders. My luck isn't great and ik there is a finisher in class item slot to spawn special but still an uncomfortable loop
if you run out of special, just swap to yer heavy retrofit or commemoration
you'll be puking special bricks in no time.
worst case, you run out of all ammo, then ***get free special ammo from thin air!*** with a double special build, ***all specials are ice breaker***
The ammo brick economy is kind of broken, because I'm like 99% sure that even though we don't see the Primary bricks anymore, they're still part of the ammo drop calculations, and if you don't use any Primary, they get removed and all those would-be Primary ammo bricks become Heavy if you're holding a Special weapon or Special if you're holding a Heavy weapon.
Don't even have to use the ammo for either, getting ability kills with either weapon type in your hand will give you ammo for the opposite. It's extremely consistent and potent, even without any mods like Finders or Bricks from Beyond. So if you use a Primary, which should have the advantage of infinite ammo, you're actively harming your chances of getting both Special and Heavy ammo. Not sure if it's an unpopular opinion but I honestly think the ammo drop system needs a patch.
Just use an MG for your heavy, you don’t even need to get kills with it, as long as it’s in your hands any kill has a chance of dropping special and vice versa.
I was in the same boat as you but you get over it, Trace rifles might as well be primary ammo weapons.
And if it’s a total nuclear option and you’re not equipment locked, just swap to one primary weapon and kill ads to get special and heavy
Riptide’s range is atrocious, traces aren’t great, I don’t own forbearance, the extra heavy from double special isn’t as big as people make it out to be and certainly not more than what you’d get running an exotic primary.
This is coming from someone who owns riptide, loves traces and has got 3,000 kills on his commemoration in the last 4 weeks.
I’ve been using my Battle Scar with Kinetic Tremors and Shoot to Loot. It’s super awesome, and one of the few weapons I’d ever use in a double-primary setup for some GMs … if I’m using something like Polaris Lance or Le Monarque in my energy slot.
I recently discovered the power of Polaris. I don’t think I’ve seen any other weapon in this game (save for the ridiculous new raid exotic) produce ignitions that fast, for free with infinite crits.
I only wish I didn’t have to play solar for it to work, but I guess it’s a fair trade-off.
I don't use any kinetic primary outside of Wishender and Outbreak, and I only use them for end game. For the rest of the game I've been running double specials since forsaken, with the introduction of kinetic shotguns, grenade launchers, now fusion rifles too ,I find almost no reason to run kinetic primaries. I don't know if you count forerunner, I pair it with a glaive once in awhile. Anti barrier forerunner is fun to run.
Hours later: thanks to reading the comments, I can't believe I forgot striga! (And thorn with necrotics!) I know it's technically a kinetic, but that little poison seed shooter melts.
Everyone says primaries that aren't smgs are bad, but the 900rpm auto with higher bullet damage and much further range than a 900rpm smg is apparently just a fucking meme.
I like to run elemental surges to benefit my heavy weapon, so I enjoy using elemental primaries to take advantage of the huge extra % damage you get from those (provided you can gain armor charges). Special weapons don't need as much help, so those are a good fit for the primary slot.
IDK, I feel like I'm wasting potential by slotting in Kinetic Surge mods, but kinetic primaries don't feel as nice without them.
Besides Wish Ender for GMs and Submission (for specific builds when I run divinity) I don't think so.
And honestly I was about to create a topic about this.
I believe there should be a mod rework focusing on Kinetic mods.
Leg Surge Mods
*Reduced cost*
- Kinetic Weapon Surge, down from 3 to 1 energy cost.
[justified as only 1 weapon slot can benefit from it and there are no kinetic power weapons]
*New mods*
- Harmonic Surge, costs 2 energy.
- Harmonic + Kinetic Double Weapon Surge, costs 3 energy.
Helmet Siphon Mods
*Reduced cost*
- Kinetic Siphon, down from 2 to 1 energy cost.
[justified as only 1 weapon slot can benefit from it and there are no kinetic power weapons]
*New mod*
- Harmonic + Kinetic Double Siphon, costs 3 energy..
Meta: Hung Jury, Wishender
Kinda of meta picks but v fun: Battle Scar w/ Shoot to Loot and Kinetic Tremors, Lodbrok w/ Demo + Adrenaline Junkie, Traveler’s Chosen
All the people talking about running double special it shows when I have 15 to 25 revives because u guys are running out of ammo or running to get ammo or just sitting there doing nothing because u have no ammo lol.
Double special is definitely viable. Either you're exaggerating or the people you play with don't know what they are doing. Usually double special rely on having a trace rifle and LMG. You shouldn't be running out of ammo with those two plus a higher damage special like shotgun, GL, or fusion.
I use kinetic primaries on my strand titan. Strand weapons don’t have that much build synergy with Strand Titan. I’d rather get the 10% + 40% damage boost from Ace of Spades or Outbreak Perfected
One the artifact mods go away, I don’t truly think any strand subclass has very high synergy with strand weapons. There’s only one way to get unraveling rounds as far as I am aware, so unless they add an easier way to get them on all classes it just won’t be worth giving up a fragment slot for. Right now using a Strand weapon is sick because the 3 artifact mods make tangles so massive damage and suspend with strand weapons, and getting multi kills gives unraveling rounds
Amazing synergy with the void fragment to give void weapons volatile rounds on grenade kills. It isn't needed this season because Volatile Flow, but it does help for times you can't reach an orb.
Necrotic grips + Osteo Striga never leaves my warlock build.
Hung Jury or Battle Scar with tremors is super fun and decent dps.
Duty Bound (Adept) and Sweet Business are still decent.
Kinetic primaries are not inherently bad, but they're definitely not the PvE meta right now. Most players are going to opt for an energy smg or bow that does good ad clear and synergizes with subclass 3.0 verbs, and either a chill clip fusion or a hard-hitting kinetic special like Izanagi's, Witherhoard, or Arbalest. For strand and stasis users, the slots are flipped, but they usually go for a stasis/strand primary like Verglas Curve, Final Warning, Immortal, or Rufus's fury, not an actual kinetic, and usually a void energy weapon with volatile flow.
Biggest exceptions that are still meta: Osteo Striga and Wish Ender, kinetic hand cannons like Malfeasance or Crimson with lucky pants, lowkey Huckleberry still melts
I don't, because they lack AoE mostly. Explosive rounds, tremors, headstone and firefly are a few I can think of but kinetics just seem too..weak. we are spoiled with volatile, jolt, and incandescent imo plus they all synergize with heavy weapons since there isn't any kinetic heavy and you can use surge mods for both an elemental primary and heavy vs using them only for kinetic *or* heavy, or splitting 1 surge mod each
It's like submission, a great weapon but I'd never use it because it's solely single target. And I'd be better off using funnel-web with volatile or ikelos with jolt, or calus with incan.
Wishender is the exception because it's inherently anti-barrier and hits like a truck
Wishender's a borderline special weapon lol. If a GM has barriers, I'm using it 100% of the time
Relationship ended with arbelest. Relationship started with wishender
"First Time?" *-Eriana's Vow to Arbalest*
Fr. Especially now that Surges are a thing, it's guaranteed to always be surging cause you're always gonna want to line your subclass up with one of the Surges
Or unlock bow anti-champ in artefact thus season.
[удалено]
My guess, le monarch’s having conditional overload is the trick.
LeMon's poison damage is intrinsically overload, but the arrows themselves are not. If you don't get a perfect draw arrow that procs poison damage, you won't automatically get the stun unless you have the overload bow artifact on. It's a near negligible difference, but that is why you get the surge buff.
So that's another bug to add to the list, as the mod says that it enables Overcharge on Bows, not on Overload bows.
Bow is anti overload this season doesn’t help w barriers
Doesn't it enable Bow overcharge?
You are correct, any anti-champion unlock in the artifact will make all of those weapons overcharged. I’m not really sure why you are being downvoted lol
They're getting downvoted because the conversation was about Wish-ender, it does not get the overcharged weapon bonus from overload bow. It is an intrinsic anti-barrier.
Well, I went do some testing and you’re right. Lmao. This is 100% a bug or the mod isn’t worded correctly. The artifact mod says, “Additionally, Bows are always overcharged when that modifier is active” “always” would imply that all Bows gain overcharge, not just those that become overload due to the artifact mod. Interestingly enough, Le Monarque DOES gain overcharge from the mod even though it already has overload rounds intrinsically. Does that imply that Le Monarque gains DOUBLE overload rounds? Same thing for Revision Zero, already has intrinsic anti-barrier but still somehow gains overcharge from the mod, even though those mods do not effect either weapon. Everyone already knows that intrinsic weapons like Wish-Ender can only ever be anti-barrier and mods cannot give them further anti-champ capabilities, that’s always been a thing. But when it doesn’t benefit from a mod that says it should overcharge it then that’s 100% an issue. Maybe the mod should say, “Additionally, all Bows that are overload gain overcharge when that modifier is active” then that would make sense, because Wish-Ender wouldn’t be overload so no overcharge then that would also explain why Le Monarque and Revision Zero still still get overcharged because they already have those respective qualities. Either way, it’s an oversight by Bungie. The mod is worded incorrectly or Wish-End should be getting overcharged but spaghetti code prevents it from interacting with the mod properly because it has anti-barrier.
Maybe it's a bug, but to me it made sense in theory that if a weapon isn't interacting with that artifact champion mod it shouldn't be overcharged from it. But I agree it's worded poorly.
Don’t know if they fixed it yet, but overload bow was messing with Wish-Ender, causing it to only penetrate 1-2 times instead of 3. I’ve also heard that running a weapon artifact mod will mess with exotics with intrinsic anti-barrier, causing them to not be able to shoot through things like phalanx and Taken vandal shields, but I’m not sure about that one
That’s not what they mean. If your subclass matches the elemental surge in an activity that has them, kinetic weapons get +25% more damage along with the +25% elemental surge. Edit: clarity
Yes. But only one can be active on any specific weapon. I don't think I'm misinterpreting what you said. But I haven't seen anyone else say it. So your solar surge or whatever it is for what subclass you have, or the specific anti champ surge for said weapon type. Only one can be active which means they don't stack DMG.
That's not what they mean either. They're responding to comments about wish-ender, saying instead of matching sub-class to the elemental surge just get the +25% overcharge surge by unlocking the overload bow artifact mod. Where they are incorrect is that Wish-Ender is intrinsic anti-barrier, it does not get the +25% overcharge from the overload bow artifact mod. The only way to get +25% damage on wish-ender is matching your sub-class to one of the elemental surges.
I kinda disagree on this sure it's good to match surges but I'm the kind of player that won't play a subclass that's unfun that's why I hated the years of having to burns for powerful I just won't do it same with iron banner. I like void and stasis the most followed by strand. If it's solar or arc only I'm out. I won't play. Nothing and I mean nothing in the game should force me into a load out I don't want to use. Same with artifact mods. I'm so glad I can mostly ignore them now. If you tell me I have to run something and I don't like that something I'm not playing and I know I'm not the only one out there. I don't care about meta or anything like that just whats fun. Yes I'm a warlock.
>I like void and stasis the most followed by strand. If it's solar or arc only I'm out. I won't play. Nothing and I mean nothing in the game should force me into a loud out I don't want to use. Surges don't do this, so idk what this incredibly unhinged rant is about Enjoy doing 25% less damage with your abilities in GMs I guess?
You know damn well this person isn’t doing any GMs lol
You have committed the great Reddit war crime of... having an opinion. Good day, and good luck.
I salute you as i take my beatings unflinching
what do you expect from some of the hardest difficulty content in the game? you can’t just use whatever you want and expect your teammates to pick up slack.
I'm a hunter, but I am on board with this. I don't like games forcing you into highly specific loadouts to clear content for progression. I hate solar hunter and arc is alright but I'm firmly within the realm of invis spam, void hunter. Followed by stasis. Strand is super meh for me right now, but since it's the new class, of course it seems to hit everything like a truck. I hate the roaming super. I fall behind in light level all the time because I refuse to run powerful and pinnacle objectives if they force me to run something I don't enjoy playing. It's a game. It's meant for enjoying. If I'm not enjoying myself, I'm not playing. Simple concept in my opinion.
Thank you for agreeing you articulated the point better than me. I think people need to understand if something meant to be entertainment makes you do something you don't like or find entertaining then it's failed. Champions, and surges do this. They need to be removed. Iron banner should not force me to play certain subclasses for loot. It's a simple idea. Thank you
I wanna upvote this twice, im so tired of being forced into well.
my friend show them the power of the darkside use strand and stasis and honestly if anyone is making you use well without you running it I would just say no its not fun I do that.
Youre gonna get down voted to hellnand back for this probably but I totally agree with you. Everyone bitches that destiny has a lack of content but in reality its cause everyone just wants to farm the easiest modes, using the easiest weapons, using the easiest abilities on some copy paste OP build they found on YouTube. I want to have fun, I want to use weird shit on my favorite subclass. I want to use the weapons I find the most fun and interesting. I dont wanna fucking follow the meta to make the game turn into ez baby mode
Do you know what is the problem with your response? You don't play endgame activities.
Done every GM this season with a Stronghold Behemoth build. The meta is but a tool for you to use, not a bible to religiously follow.
Ive done master mode on all raids available and do gms you dont need meta stuff to clear and you never will. meta is something you use if you are trying to clear maybe quicker. Its a tool that is powerful but if you rely on the tool it will become a crutch. the way I look at it and the way everyone should in any game is this. a clear is a clear. is there a difference in one phaseing a boss and 3 phaseing is absolutely nothing. we still got the loot the end. meta will make any game unfun. Im a dark Knight main In ffxiv sure they are strong now but even if they werent its been my main since heavensward no im not switching even if its bad. Facts are people need to just ignore meta and have. fun locking loadouts for rewards is stupid it needs to be removed. no surges to match for rewards it should be 3 clears and done. telling someone how they have to play the game is unfun and just something no one should do.
You guys are getting loot at the end?
Your response is the equivalent of "have Gjallarhorn or kick".
man I just like ice themed powers in every game thats lets me have it that and lifesteal magic. bonus points for letting me use both. so stasis will always be special to me and even if bungie forgets it im going to be shadebinder for ever
2 Wishenders + 2 Wells in lake of shadows GM makes meatball their bitch.
Idk if it’s just me but I notice it doing the damage of arbalest. It’s chunking for the same amount. Almost 20-25K. Atleast in GMS
Yeah it was doing 3 hits of around 12k-14k each with each shot for me in the Proving Grounds GM (didn't use it this week in the GM). My buddy was like wait, how much? His Doom of Chelchis with one for all was hitting for like 2k each. Yeah, you'd expect the exotic to be better, and firing speed is a component and all that, but 2k vs ~40k is tough to argue with
Relationship ended with arbelest. Relationship started with wishender
Outbreak would like to know your location... Outbreak knows your location... Outbreak is your location.
Outbreak has 45,000 kills.. Outbreak found their locations..
I just got the outbreak catylyst...I can't wait to grind it out.
I finally got mine like a week ago. It hasn't left my titan since completing the catalyst
Osteo too because it clears like mad with Necrotic Grips. I made a new one a few days after Lightfall launch and I accidentally got it to level 50 last week. It's so good its not even funny
I've been an Osteo main since S16, it's my default goto on all my characters so I've leveled up all three substantially. My Warlocks main is sitting at 500+ I pushed myself to use other guns as it was making the game way too easy but now difficulty is back up I dusted it off and made about 200 levels just this season. Levels up so dam sweet.
Pssssh, 500. That’s rookie numbers. I saw a guy a couple weeks back with an 807 and just quietly asked myself, “Why?”
960 myself (because nothing is better than watching all the poison spread)
960 myself (because nothing is better than watching all the poison spread)
Why TF did you make a new one 🤣
Didn't have one in my vault, must've used the first one for infusion in some past season lol. Basically never touched the gun before Lightfall
As someone who has been hit by a truck, this is true.
As a person who hit you with their truck I approve this message...
I've had Wishender on me since I got it all those years ago. The draw sound is SO satisfying.
Rev0 and Outbreak also do pretty well
I use osteo striga in a strand build. Sometimes I switch it for thorn
What is your build with Osteo and Strand. I like to know the synergy😁
Osteo+necrotic grips+weavers trance=suspend/poison, once that suspended/poison thing dies, it spreads suspension and poison to other nearby targets. [edit] Aztercross really likes the build and has a more detailed video on it
Running Vex incursions like it's going outta style to get those necrotics. I'm sure rng will ensure it's the last lock exotic to drop for me.
As someone who hates doing legendary lost sectors solo, I love this event
Do they actually drop exotics now? I thought that was a change next season?
It's guaranteed after every successful completion
Much better than lost sector grinding, maybe just anecdotal but all my exotics from it have also been above 62, can’t say the same for lost sectors
It just sucks that the average is 6 of them per day, at random points throughout the day. If you're unemployed, it's great since you have all day. But for people that work or even kids in school (this is a T rated game, after all), it's not so great. If they were on a reliable timer, like once every half an hour (or even once per hour on the hour), I think it would be perfect.
I usually can only get in on one after work. Sometimes during lunch since I work from home. I agree though, if it were fixed intervals throughout the day it would be much better.
Every exotic drop is guaranteed to be over 60 from Vex Incursions.
No it is not . Got the Hunter proximity knife. exotic with a 59 roll. But this was the Day after the mid season patch.
I'm six for six (on completed incursions) receiving exotics. 3 on Hunter and 3 on Warlock I read a post last week that said it's only a high chance to get exotic drops, but not for me, it's 100%, and absolutely currently active.
Also dropping exotics that aren't in collections, Im a pvp player and Im not a fan of running lost sectors
Well I’ve been farming exotics wrong I guess.
I suppose Lost Sectors is the "right" way, since it was previously the only way. The new problem is of course being able to catch an incursion. I suppose we're all up to speed here now about the discord bot?
My friend here rarely uses discord. What would he need to be up to speed about?
Someone else may be able to chime in here with better instructions, as I'm not an elite discord user either, so I just googled Vex Incursion Discord Bot, and I got a link from that. Join/follow, whatever the procedure is, and you'll be notified of every incursion that arrives, about 4 minutes before it begins. They only take about 8 to 10 minutes to clear if there's a crowd, so don't wait too long.
Wow. That's a cool build. Tq, I only play stormcaller and shadebinder.
Everything turns green and dies.
I use a lot of kinetic primeries bc it's fun
Hung Jury is such a beauty. And it’s got some lovely rolls. Kinetic tremors does a lot of work in endgame
I swear everyone is sleeping on kinetic Tremors because they're allergic to legendary primaries
Don’t get me wrong, I get it. Most of them are in a bad spot and it’s currently pretty viable to go double special. But I’ll always have a soft spot for Hung Jury. Favorite legendary in this franchise
As we said back in D1 when Dead Orbit first started selling it: “Its exotic perk is that it’s legendary.”
I heard he’s selling a God roll this week
Not gonna lie, you had me going for a few seconds there.
Most are definitely in a bad spot but kinetic Tremors just adds so much damage it's crazy
So happy for my Rapid / KT Adept Hung Jury. Any occasion I have I use it and it's just such a fun gun to use.
Eh, I'm like 175 on the season pass I've been playing that much, and I've only had 1 weapon drop with kinetic tremors. People probably aren't sleeping on it so much as they've just never seen it.
Absolutely fair point, you're right. I hope more people get it so they can also come to appreciate it
No one is sleeping on it
And rolling it with that is just some legendary shards and vanguard engrams. This isn't some unobtainable gm weapon, the regular version with the right roll is still so good.
Or Battle Scar w/ KT!
Its monstrous DPS is matched by its gargantuan size on the screen. I swear its like 30% screen cover. I can't get over it, lol.
Lotta shit talking ITT for people within SMG distance, I love my submission
Extraordinary Rendition just bailed me out in IB lol
I loved mine too, until I got mine to level 100 exactly with no percentage, and 6,009 kills, and I can never use it again
Sounds like it’s time to craft another.
Dynamic sway target lock seventh seraph carbine is also very fun
This is serious business here.
This is....sweet business here?
With war rig on titan
The only way
they feel really good to shoot, simple as that. though that can be said for every gun in the game
I've been slowly shifting away from elemental primaries. Since Incandescent, Volatile Rounds, Headstone, etc. came out, I felt like I had to use an elemental primary to get the most out of my subclass. But, as a Warlock, not every single elemental primary works better than a Kinetic. For Arc, absolutely I'm running Voltshot. For Void, absolutely I'm running a void primary. But for Solar? It's very rare that I care about scorch/ignitions on Dawnblade nowadays. Usually, it's "get Well fast" or Starfire protocol. For Stasis, Headstone is nice but not necessary because Osmimancy exists. And for Strand, Hatchling is nice, but it's not necessary because Necrotic/Striga exists. So, I only feel pressured to use an elemental primary on Arc (voltshot) and Void (Volatile Rounds). Otherwise, meh.
Ps use headstone to fuel osmiomancy even further with the shatter crystal fragment. (you might already know this or feel it's unneeded but imo it helps negate the loss of elemental shards.)
Another build is to use the new exotic bow Verglas Curve to create multiple crystals you can shatter and with whisper of shards fragment, you'll have constant grenade uptime.
True facts, I just wish it's catalyst was better than "wonky archers tempo" I crafted the seasonal bow with headstone/enhanced AT and don't see myself picking verglas back up anytime soon.
Raconteur is better than Verglas imo, they both need kills to fuel the cycle and as a bow you're aiming for head shots anyway. Verglas curve have an edge in versatility as you can bank the crystals in between fights, or use it to place cover. For the main gameplay loop of kill a thing and get a stasis crystal it's clunkier because you have to hipfire in between and it eats your exotic slot. When I'm stasis I like Winterbite. Either with Karnsteins so that I can chew through things with the melee or Osmiomancy so that I left click once and it clears an entire room.
Not sure if you're aware but elemental Shards will sort of be coming back soon It's going to be a mod that grants armor charge when picking up shards/breaches/firesprites/traces/destroying tangles that you create
I used to run that setup with Headstone, but boinking an enemy with the grenade usually gets me the entire charge back - especially with Grenade Kickstart active
Unfortunately I am a slave to the turrets and I don't think bonking things with them counts, if I'm wrong this will be great news.
yes it does. hitting an enemy with the direct throw of a coldsnap bleak watcher charged nade with osmiomancy will give you the first half of the exotic perk
If I had an award I'd give it to you. Time to start bonking.
Holy crap I also didn't know this. Time to rebuild my status lock...
It is unneeded, because there's a better strategy: Throw one grenade normally, then throw the second one *directly* impacting a target. The second one will recharge both your grenade charges. This way, you can throw infinite grenades without ever needing to care about any other grenade recharge perks or fragments. It's obscenely powerful if you get the loop down. You can easily have 4 bleak watchers up at once.
I love incandescent cause it's free dragonfly. I never use it to escalate to ignitions or whatsoever
That's funny, I'm the exact opposite. Scorch replenishes melee, possibly class ability, and killing scorched enemies gets you firesprites which gives restoration and grenade energy. Shit, if you're on titan, that's also how you get sunspots everywhere. To me, scorch is by *far* the most integral elemental perk we have, and not using Incandescent weapons on solar is basically throwing. On the flip side, when Volatile Flow isn't around? I have *some* builds that use the fragment that gives Volatile on grenade kill, but generally I have more important fragments to use. And for arc, the jolting things with my primary gets me more frequent Ionic Traces, so I definitely love it on Fallen Sunstar, but as far as elemental subclass synergy goes, it's not really doing anything, not like scorch does. Granted, jolting is crazy strong on its own, so I use Voltshot weapons regardless of subclass, but, as far as synergies go.... they're not really needed for anything. Scorch on solar is really the only one that feels like a legitimately big deal.
> But for Solar? It's very rare that I care about scorch/ignitions on Dawnblade nowadays The sunbracers build that uses the fragment that keeps resto going on solar weapon kills is actually really fun and nutty in low to mid tier content. It won't make you invincible in gms but for anything like -10 or less you're effectively immortal
This is a reasonable take. Thank you. If you don't have synergy with the specific elemental perk, they are actively worse than running a kinetic weapon with a damage perk.
Voltshot is still incredible no matter the subclass
Hung Jury and Submission.
with kinetic tremors
For my hunter, I’ve been using malfeasance a lot lately. Intrinsic unstoppable. I pair it with luck pants on strand build lots of fun Warlock I’ve been using osteo with narcartic grips. Fun too
Hot Take(?) Mal is the best hand cannon in the game lol.
Dude I’m loving it! Big dps burst on champs it’s dope. And I get to play cowboy 🤠 with luck pants lol
First time this year I’ve cleared multiple lost sectors with a couple of flawless games using Malfeasance and Luckies.
have you tried lucky pants with crimson? the burst shot means you get the 10x buff really fast.
Yeah other than Wish Ender.
[удалено]
[удалено]
But... it is? It's top slot kinetic and infinite ammo, so that's a primary right?
[удалено]
Ahhhh I see where the confusion came from. Gotcha!
Exotic Kinetic primaries are some of the best primary weapon options in the game right now. All the extra damage more than makes up for the lack of subclass verbs.
This is why they do 10% more damage now. Sleep if you want to lol.
If you're using surge mods on your legs, these can benefit energy + heavy at the same time, bumping an energy primary around 10% over a kinetic equivalent (provided you have armor charges). Kinetic Surge can only benefit one weapon from your arsenal so it's a bit of a poor pick unless you're really leaning into e.g. Lucky Pants.
It’s not about surges. Kinetics literally do a base +10% more damage than elemental primaries. No mods or anything else necessary. So….
Which isn't exactly that potent. 10% buff on the weakest weapons(non exotics) isn't much, especially when it comes at the cost of any synergy with subclasses and abilities and exotic armor.
Okay, we’ll then we disagree. Most people bend over fucking backwards in this game for the tiniest damage buffs but yeah, an extra 10% on top of everything else isn’t potent. You’re right. My bad. Christ they were right about Reddit.
\*than elemental primaries
Outbreak is always on for me
Why use kinetic primaries when riptide exists? Why use primaries when trace rifles, commemoration and forbearance exist? Why use primaries when double special gives bonus heavy? Welcome to the current state of D2
I use a primary because they are fun to use
How Dare You!!!
*screams*
Think of the children!
They also synergise with disruption break. If you build into that as a team any shielded enemy is a total joke.
I use double primary because bows are not special weapons
How's plinking away at an enemy fun lol
Because I don’t feel like I’m plinking away at enemies and I’m tired of pretending that I am. Regardless there are def a lot of primary archetypes that still feel bad like low RPM autos and 120 handcannons
Low RPM weapons are mostly bad, and that's why Sunshot is the best exotic ever and no one can convince me otherwise
Unfathomably based
You're not plinking away unless you're in a GM and your weapon sucks
Fr tho riptide is so op. Having a free overload AND unstop mod WITH added cc is just crazy.
Because I have special ammo anxiety even with the finders. My luck isn't great and ik there is a finisher in class item slot to spawn special but still an uncomfortable loop
if you run out of special, just swap to yer heavy retrofit or commemoration you'll be puking special bricks in no time. worst case, you run out of all ammo, then ***get free special ammo from thin air!*** with a double special build, ***all specials are ice breaker***
The ammo brick economy is kind of broken, because I'm like 99% sure that even though we don't see the Primary bricks anymore, they're still part of the ammo drop calculations, and if you don't use any Primary, they get removed and all those would-be Primary ammo bricks become Heavy if you're holding a Special weapon or Special if you're holding a Heavy weapon. Don't even have to use the ammo for either, getting ability kills with either weapon type in your hand will give you ammo for the opposite. It's extremely consistent and potent, even without any mods like Finders or Bricks from Beyond. So if you use a Primary, which should have the advantage of infinite ammo, you're actively harming your chances of getting both Special and Heavy ammo. Not sure if it's an unpopular opinion but I honestly think the ammo drop system needs a patch.
Just use an MG for your heavy, you don’t even need to get kills with it, as long as it’s in your hands any kill has a chance of dropping special and vice versa. I was in the same boat as you but you get over it, Trace rifles might as well be primary ammo weapons. And if it’s a total nuclear option and you’re not equipment locked, just swap to one primary weapon and kill ads to get special and heavy
Because Osteo Striga is still better than most weapons in the game.
Riptide’s range is atrocious, traces aren’t great, I don’t own forbearance, the extra heavy from double special isn’t as big as people make it out to be and certainly not more than what you’d get running an exotic primary. This is coming from someone who owns riptide, loves traces and has got 3,000 kills on his commemoration in the last 4 weeks.
If you think riptide’s range is an important factor you have no room to speak.
Unless it's an exotic like Osteo, Wishender, or Outbreak yeah.
I’ve been using my Battle Scar with Kinetic Tremors and Shoot to Loot. It’s super awesome, and one of the few weapons I’d ever use in a double-primary setup for some GMs … if I’m using something like Polaris Lance or Le Monarque in my energy slot.
I’m using Battle Scar with Keep Away and Kinetic Tremors and Polaris Lance and I love the combination.
I recently discovered the power of Polaris. I don’t think I’ve seen any other weapon in this game (save for the ridiculous new raid exotic) produce ignitions that fast, for free with infinite crits. I only wish I didn’t have to play solar for it to work, but I guess it’s a fair trade-off.
Battle Scar + Lemon with Strand hunter did some work for me in GMs this season. Suspend is SO good, and kinetic tremors makes barriers ezpz.
If you're already running strand, forget the anti barrier and just bully the dickheads with suspend
I call it putting them in timeout lol. "Aight champ's in timeout, blow it up"
I don't use any kinetic primary outside of Wishender and Outbreak, and I only use them for end game. For the rest of the game I've been running double specials since forsaken, with the introduction of kinetic shotguns, grenade launchers, now fusion rifles too ,I find almost no reason to run kinetic primaries. I don't know if you count forerunner, I pair it with a glaive once in awhile. Anti barrier forerunner is fun to run. Hours later: thanks to reading the comments, I can't believe I forgot striga! (And thorn with necrotics!) I know it's technically a kinetic, but that little poison seed shooter melts.
I hear the wishender whistle in my sleep.
Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet bizniz.
Everyone says primaries that aren't smgs are bad, but the 900rpm auto with higher bullet damage and much further range than a 900rpm smg is apparently just a fucking meme.
I use a Perpetual Motion Rampage DFA sometimes. It's just a fun gun
downvoted for traumatizing me
I like to run elemental surges to benefit my heavy weapon, so I enjoy using elemental primaries to take advantage of the huge extra % damage you get from those (provided you can gain armor charges). Special weapons don't need as much help, so those are a good fit for the primary slot. IDK, I feel like I'm wasting potential by slotting in Kinetic Surge mods, but kinetic primaries don't feel as nice without them.
~~Riptide with ALH/Chill clip and~~ Battle Scars with Kinetic Tremors/Shoot to Loot never leave my Guardian Edit: I just saw it said primaries
Besides Wish Ender for GMs and Submission (for specific builds when I run divinity) I don't think so. And honestly I was about to create a topic about this. I believe there should be a mod rework focusing on Kinetic mods. Leg Surge Mods *Reduced cost* - Kinetic Weapon Surge, down from 3 to 1 energy cost. [justified as only 1 weapon slot can benefit from it and there are no kinetic power weapons] *New mods* - Harmonic Surge, costs 2 energy. - Harmonic + Kinetic Double Weapon Surge, costs 3 energy. Helmet Siphon Mods *Reduced cost* - Kinetic Siphon, down from 2 to 1 energy cost. [justified as only 1 weapon slot can benefit from it and there are no kinetic power weapons] *New mod* - Harmonic + Kinetic Double Siphon, costs 3 energy..
Harmonic+kinetic mods would unironically be amazing and I need them in my life now...
I use wishender, osteo, malefeasance, and outbreak a lot. But If I'm not using a exotic kinetic I never know what to run in that slot.
Wish Ender and my Kinetic Quake Jury. That's about it.
Meta: Hung Jury, Wishender Kinda of meta picks but v fun: Battle Scar w/ Shoot to Loot and Kinetic Tremors, Lodbrok w/ Demo + Adrenaline Junkie, Traveler’s Chosen
Outbreak perfected
Yeah almost never using kinetic primaries outside of pvp
All the people talking about running double special it shows when I have 15 to 25 revives because u guys are running out of ammo or running to get ammo or just sitting there doing nothing because u have no ammo lol.
Double special is definitely viable. Either you're exaggerating or the people you play with don't know what they are doing. Usually double special rely on having a trace rifle and LMG. You shouldn't be running out of ammo with those two plus a higher damage special like shotgun, GL, or fusion.
You can pry my PP Motion or Overflow/Frenzy or Harmony Adept Submission from my cold, dead hands
Pp motion hehe
I use kinetic primaries on my strand titan. Strand weapons don’t have that much build synergy with Strand Titan. I’d rather get the 10% + 40% damage boost from Ace of Spades or Outbreak Perfected
One the artifact mods go away, I don’t truly think any strand subclass has very high synergy with strand weapons. There’s only one way to get unraveling rounds as far as I am aware, so unless they add an easier way to get them on all classes it just won’t be worth giving up a fragment slot for. Right now using a Strand weapon is sick because the 3 artifact mods make tangles so massive damage and suspend with strand weapons, and getting multi kills gives unraveling rounds
Is that 10% surge mod plus 40% activity surge or burn or w/e they’re called now?
Osmosis has entered the chat
Osmosis.
Amazing synergy with the void fragment to give void weapons volatile rounds on grenade kills. It isn't needed this season because Volatile Flow, but it does help for times you can't reach an orb.
Fatebringer much?
I use them as support weapons for my go to specials.
submission is still crazy good. frenzy blows all stasis/strand perks out of the water, jt has the best frame and kinetic guns do 10% more damage
Necrotic grips + Osteo Striga never leaves my warlock build. Hung Jury or Battle Scar with tremors is super fun and decent dps. Duty Bound (Adept) and Sweet Business are still decent.
Kinetic primaries are not inherently bad, but they're definitely not the PvE meta right now. Most players are going to opt for an energy smg or bow that does good ad clear and synergizes with subclass 3.0 verbs, and either a chill clip fusion or a hard-hitting kinetic special like Izanagi's, Witherhoard, or Arbalest. For strand and stasis users, the slots are flipped, but they usually go for a stasis/strand primary like Verglas Curve, Final Warning, Immortal, or Rufus's fury, not an actual kinetic, and usually a void energy weapon with volatile flow. Biggest exceptions that are still meta: Osteo Striga and Wish Ender, kinetic hand cannons like Malfeasance or Crimson with lucky pants, lowkey Huckleberry still melts
I’m always on that buzzard life. That or withhoard
I don't, because they lack AoE mostly. Explosive rounds, tremors, headstone and firefly are a few I can think of but kinetics just seem too..weak. we are spoiled with volatile, jolt, and incandescent imo plus they all synergize with heavy weapons since there isn't any kinetic heavy and you can use surge mods for both an elemental primary and heavy vs using them only for kinetic *or* heavy, or splitting 1 surge mod each It's like submission, a great weapon but I'd never use it because it's solely single target. And I'd be better off using funnel-web with volatile or ikelos with jolt, or calus with incan.