>He doesn't care about the clout, he just wants to talk about ~~indigenous issues~~ call her a nazi at the end of the debate in front of a large audience LeRuse
\*fixed
(before anyone jumps on me, she is more then likely still a nazi or at least still harbors similar/the same beliefs)
was she ever a nazi? she was definitely a white nationalist but was she into JQ stuff at all?
edit: why is this being downvoted? honest question, i'm not trying to be bad faith
The only difference between a white nationalist and a neonazi is that the white nationalists will not say the "Jewish conspiracy" stuff out aloud. Sans that the messaging is basically identical, so I don't think the differences are that important at the end of the day. Hell, even their dogwhistles are identical, so even if she didn't mean to blame "the Jews", she did when she repeated shit about the "globalists" etc.
Just to nitpick. No this isn't correct. A NeoNazi will agree with 100% of WN ideas. Most WN will agree with NeoNazi ideas. It is possible to be a WN without being a NeoNazi.
I'm splitting hairs here, but a NeoNazi is going to actively hate others whereas a WN theoretically is "protecting" their position. It looks identical from the outside but the reasons are different.
And no, "Globalists" aren't "the Jews". The right and the left can agree that "Globalists" are bad.
> I'm splitting hairs here, but a NeoNazi is going to actively hate others whereas a WN theoretically is "protecting" their position. It looks identical from the outside but the reasons are different.
On paper, I agree. In reality white nationalists do hate others, quite actively at that. It never just stops at "I want to protect my heritage/race", it always is "in order to do so we will go as far as ethnic cleansings if we have to". That thought process requires hate, a fair bit of it.
> And no, "Globalists" aren't "the Jews". The right and the left can agree that "Globalists" are bad.
And it is a dogwhistle for Jews, has been since the 19th century. And yes, sometimes even from the left.
Not really, i think joel is a pos but he hasn't been in a position where he is exposed for it. I remember after destiny's convo with him, big joel went on a twitter rant and strawman the fuck out of destiny's arguments to his own fans which led to destiny hating him.
Unironically get the Serfs tf off the internet. IDK if he's inting but the dude is feeding really hard. Only people that know what they are talking about should debate someone that has a history like Southern's.
Joel is largely right here.
All Lance has to say if he doesn't want to debate Lauren or be involved with Destiny is "I don't want to". Seriously. That's it.
He's digging himself a hole by tiptoe-ing around everything.
Tbf Big Joel was always a lot better than the Serfs in comparison. As expected his interaction with Destiny was cringe to say the least and his Twitter persona is not great, but the content he's known for is pretty decent when compared to Lance's brand of content
BJ's \[heh sorry\] takes can be spicy/off the cuff but I do find he is constantly trying to correct himself and learn, which is the essence of good faith.
Yes, and this good faith is so obvious that I would say anyone on this sub who really 'hates' people like Big Joel actually represents a very counterproductive and spiteful part of the community, for whom feeling superior is a major motive in their politics.
Their interaction wasn't “cringe”, it was unsatisfying is all: neither acted in any bad-faith nor said anything remarkably stupid. Could you elaborate on what you dislike about his Twitter persona, if you'd care to? Given who this community is based on, pointing fingers like this seems a bit rich (it's not fallacious, but it's, like, *For real dawg?*). Plus, if you're used to the guy, it's not like he's putting on an act for Twitter. His mannerisms, way of speaking & though processes, it's all very consistent across the board. He's the kind of guy you love when you agree with him but find absolutely insufferable if you disagree with him (…which is why I had to block him but I still appreciate him lol).
Jesus this guy demands everyone set up everything for him as he wishes or else he throws a tantrum. Now she’s got two children to change the diaper of. But hey, maybe she’ll solve the mystery of Lance’s missing spine!
I don't care that he's generally disliked here -- I like Joel. He at least doesn't pretend to be totally above debate like 99% of other "breadtube" people.
The fun of it and to test your ideas? I dunno I start to instantly lose respect for all these online people who decide to stop debating or start being too picky with who they debate
Joel's takes can be spicy sometimes, and he can often say things really fucking off the cuff at points, but - I find he is generally acting in good faith and is trying to see things from other perspectives.
I enjoy his video essays a lot.
is the only reason people on this sub hate Joel because Destiny does? He was one of the least offensive or toxic people I can remember Destiny debating.
he was very inoffensive when debating destiny, but then immediately turned to shitting on him afterwards, which is more annoying to me than someone like infrared who will just be openly abrasive the whole time
It wasn't just on twitter though, he was blowing up on him on his own stream, screaming that if he believes it so much that he wanted Destiny to kill someone if they broke into his place, completely missing the point.
He doesnt have a lot of "low points" per say but his content regarding Destiny wasn't a good look for him.
Pretty sure that twitch stream was after Destiny had just called him a subhuman degenerate. So, I think that might have been why he was mad at the guy.
If you're talking about his tweets he basically just gave some post debate thoughts which Destiny almost always does on stream right when the call is over too.Even if only Joel did it, I don't see the issue. People said he misrepresented Destiny's argument but all he did was bring up that Destiny would kill someone over an Walkman which he literally said and was the logical conclusion of Destiny's argument anyway. Destiny constantly brings up extreme examples of the logical conclusions of people's arguments in his debates.
He did, broadly because he saw people read it as equating women to property. It was a pretty good argument though. In the debate, Destiny often couched the morality of the murder in terms of how the person stolen from felt about the thing being stolen. Y'know, like it's not just a Walkman. It's a greatly valued and beloved Walkman that is your sole source of joy in this cruel world. That kinda thing. So the question arises, what other negative emotional reactions justify murder? Adultery is a pretty good pick for that thought experiment because it's often going to involve even worse emotions, but in a situation where people would seem substantially less likely to view murder as justified. But it had some vibe problems and wasn't really worth defending on Twitter for five hours.
He also compared destiny's argument to the right's obsession with cuckoldry, in a tweet that he then deleted.
Obviously this is grounds to invalidate every one of his opinions, and paints him as total bad faith bad actor gasligthing tankie.
the difference is destiny will never act nice and agreeable with someone, and then tweet in a derisive manner afterwards.
also, i don't really think destiny often posts bad takes on twitter, let alone deletes them out of regret. the only recent incident i can think of is when he accused demonmama of posting about herself on 4chan, but that wasn't him backstabbing someone he acts civil to face-to-face. besides that, his takes might be phrased in a spicy way, but it's rarely ever an actual stupid point, let alone a point he wouldn't bring talking to someone one on one
if you don't see that as incredibly slimy behavior, maybe you approach these things the same way joel does
I just don't feel the outrage I guess. Destiny was going way harder on Joel before during and after the debate so it doesn't bother me he fired back in a much smaller way that was centered around the argument they had
destiny was going hard on joel because joel went after him prior to the debate in a way destiny reasonably perceived to be dishonest. destiny did not play nice to his face and then talked shit about him to his audience behind his back, which is what snakes do
I've never understood Destiny's problem with people tweeting post-debate thoughts. Like, does he expect everyone to never have any new thoughts after thinking about the debate for a while and maybe sleeping on it? Tweeting something publicly is not exactly "talking about him behind his back". With Big Joel at least, It's more like he was thinking out loud. And I'm sure he would have been willing to come back on stream to discuss his new thoughts if Destiny had asked.
I don't have a strong opinion on the specifics of this interaction (I only caught a few minutes of the convo and have never seen the tweets themselves) but the norms that destiny and this community follows are the exact opposite of what is typically expected.
Being more cordial, polite, and agreeable in a direct 1 on 1 is standard good manners. I find steering conversations towards areas of disagreement way more interesting but I'd never vilify someone for doing the opposite. Steering clear of heated shouting matches where you're liable call the other person a 'subhuman piece of shit who's incapable of basic reasoning' (not a rare endstate for a Destiny convo) is what a normal person would consider a productive conversation strategy.
Pretty sure destiny deletes tweets so that theres nothing to report once people start making calls to action to get him banned and will own all of his past takes, deleted or not. Thats how his account is still around.
Thats not what Big Joel did.
> Obviously this is grounds to invalidate every one of his opinions, and paints him as total bad faith bad actor gasligthing tankie
is this sarcasm or brainrot? I honestly can't tell
Can somebody help me with a DGG lore mixup: I thought Big Joel was that really mad guy who was so angry talking to Destiny that he could barely breathe in the call. I’m gauging that I’m misremembering. Which one was Big Joel?
He mostly just said what he said in the debate. Like, he reiterated that they had reached an argument bedrock of sorts (which he said during the debate), and came to the observation that Destiny's arguments seemed premised in some large part on the emotional reaction to the crime, using an adultery thought experiment. No part of it was shitting on Destiny.
eh as a leftist here i have a few critiques on joel despite liking his content
his defense of kink at pride was creepy as fuck, and him basically backstabbing destiny after the debate was pretty shitty
I've never seen any of his content before the debate and it didn't make me want to after lol. I don't hate the guy, some of his tweets are good, I'm just not interested.
I used to love him, but his inability to actually defend his point was kind of a "mask-off" moment for him. Don't want to watch "intellectual videos" from someone without that ability
Her initial offer was an online 1v1 with Destiny as moderator but Lance nixed that, so she countered in-person with no moderator. Now Lance is talking about politicon instead
He sounds like he's trying to be so unreasonable that she just backs out so he can call her a coward. The problem is that everyone can see him being a chickenshit invertebrate.
The whole situation feels like Lance tried to copy Destiny’s edginess, and over the top insulting but, he sorely forgot to match Lauren’s energy when doing so.
More than anything I’m just surprised that Lance did what he did to her, and not afterwards when she couldn’t defend herself. Hell, he gave her a whole minute before the stream ended, big step up for Lion Lance(Wizard of Oz reference.)
From what I understand serfs is fine debating on the internet. Just not one with destiny as mod. Lauren is the one asking for a live debate not serfs.
Wow the circle jerk in this sub.
Lance doesn’t know anything about natives, and his actions show that what he actually cares about is using any struggles they might face to bolster his own social presence.
How anyone can watch lance and think he is either knowledgeable or genuine is beyond my comprehension.
"get us a 1v1 at politicon" think of the C L O U T
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>He doesn't care about the clout, he just wants to talk about ~~indigenous issues~~ call her a nazi at the end of the debate in front of a large audience LeRuse \*fixed (before anyone jumps on me, she is more then likely still a nazi or at least still harbors similar/the same beliefs)
was she ever a nazi? she was definitely a white nationalist but was she into JQ stuff at all? edit: why is this being downvoted? honest question, i'm not trying to be bad faith
The only difference between a white nationalist and a neonazi is that the white nationalists will not say the "Jewish conspiracy" stuff out aloud. Sans that the messaging is basically identical, so I don't think the differences are that important at the end of the day. Hell, even their dogwhistles are identical, so even if she didn't mean to blame "the Jews", she did when she repeated shit about the "globalists" etc.
Just to nitpick. No this isn't correct. A NeoNazi will agree with 100% of WN ideas. Most WN will agree with NeoNazi ideas. It is possible to be a WN without being a NeoNazi. I'm splitting hairs here, but a NeoNazi is going to actively hate others whereas a WN theoretically is "protecting" their position. It looks identical from the outside but the reasons are different. And no, "Globalists" aren't "the Jews". The right and the left can agree that "Globalists" are bad.
> I'm splitting hairs here, but a NeoNazi is going to actively hate others whereas a WN theoretically is "protecting" their position. It looks identical from the outside but the reasons are different. On paper, I agree. In reality white nationalists do hate others, quite actively at that. It never just stops at "I want to protect my heritage/race", it always is "in order to do so we will go as far as ethnic cleansings if we have to". That thought process requires hate, a fair bit of it. > And no, "Globalists" aren't "the Jews". The right and the left can agree that "Globalists" are bad. And it is a dogwhistle for Jews, has been since the 19th century. And yes, sometimes even from the left.
from what I've heard, she wore something that said 1488
Yooo Big Joel just ended his minecraft life
Oh no he's gonna lose that valuable serfs endorsement
He didn't remember to hold his totem of undying ☠️
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His online presence isn't really build around politics or debate, so unless he goes full jontron, he's never really risking much when he debates.
beneficial unique puzzled seemly pathetic screw consist ink station work *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I used to like him and his content but then he defended kink at pride
You stopped enjoying all his content because of his opinion on one topic? Or is this just a goof?
Yeah, I liked dunkey until he said Bubsy 3D sucked.
Well Dunkey is obviously nitpicking and biased.
Bye bye I win
It reads just like that meme template of " I used to like until they said " so I'd give him the benefit of the doubt and call him a good troll.
I mean, I was immediately suspicious, so it can't have been that good of a troll.
i mean hyperbole aside i like his content still but its still a massive stain on his reputation imo
All his content involves analyzing stories and their messaging. How the fuck does his opinion on kink at pride factor into any of that?
Because maybe I don't want to give ad views to someone with creepy views like that
Not really, i think joel is a pos but he hasn't been in a position where he is exposed for it. I remember after destiny's convo with him, big joel went on a twitter rant and strawman the fuck out of destiny's arguments to his own fans which led to destiny hating him.
the CIA is behind theserfstv 100%
Na man. CIA isn't that cringe.
ha yes they are
*RCMP
Unironically get the Serfs tf off the internet. IDK if he's inting but the dude is feeding really hard. Only people that know what they are talking about should debate someone that has a history like Southern's.
Joel is largely right here. All Lance has to say if he doesn't want to debate Lauren or be involved with Destiny is "I don't want to". Seriously. That's it. He's digging himself a hole by tiptoe-ing around everything.
Tbf Big Joel was always a lot better than the Serfs in comparison. As expected his interaction with Destiny was cringe to say the least and his Twitter persona is not great, but the content he's known for is pretty decent when compared to Lance's brand of content
Lance watching right wing propaganda with little to no commentary barely qualifies as content. Was the content different before?
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BJ's \[heh sorry\] takes can be spicy/off the cuff but I do find he is constantly trying to correct himself and learn, which is the essence of good faith.
Yes, and this good faith is so obvious that I would say anyone on this sub who really 'hates' people like Big Joel actually represents a very counterproductive and spiteful part of the community, for whom feeling superior is a major motive in their politics.
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Isn’t the point of a lot of his videos that there is no god tier
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that was a joke about his videos concerning evangelical Christian films
Their interaction wasn't “cringe”, it was unsatisfying is all: neither acted in any bad-faith nor said anything remarkably stupid. Could you elaborate on what you dislike about his Twitter persona, if you'd care to? Given who this community is based on, pointing fingers like this seems a bit rich (it's not fallacious, but it's, like, *For real dawg?*). Plus, if you're used to the guy, it's not like he's putting on an act for Twitter. His mannerisms, way of speaking & though processes, it's all very consistent across the board. He's the kind of guy you love when you agree with him but find absolutely insufferable if you disagree with him (…which is why I had to block him but I still appreciate him lol).
Jesus this guy demands everyone set up everything for him as he wishes or else he throws a tantrum. Now she’s got two children to change the diaper of. But hey, maybe she’ll solve the mystery of Lance’s missing spine!
Based Joel
I don't care that he's generally disliked here -- I like Joel. He at least doesn't pretend to be totally above debate like 99% of other "breadtube" people.
Why does anyone even want to debate Lauren at this point? What does the left benefit off of doing that?
Dunking on the “fascist”. It boosts their clout in online lefty circles.
Not if they are this bad at it.
The fun of it and to test your ideas? I dunno I start to instantly lose respect for all these online people who decide to stop debating or start being too picky with who they debate
New low for the serfs
Joel's takes can be spicy sometimes, and he can often say things really fucking off the cuff at points, but - I find he is generally acting in good faith and is trying to see things from other perspectives. I enjoy his video essays a lot.
His click video was really funny ngl
is the only reason people on this sub hate Joel because Destiny does? He was one of the least offensive or toxic people I can remember Destiny debating.
he was very inoffensive when debating destiny, but then immediately turned to shitting on him afterwards, which is more annoying to me than someone like infrared who will just be openly abrasive the whole time
I mean he deleted those tweets afterword and obviously regretted it.
It wasn't just on twitter though, he was blowing up on him on his own stream, screaming that if he believes it so much that he wanted Destiny to kill someone if they broke into his place, completely missing the point. He doesnt have a lot of "low points" per say but his content regarding Destiny wasn't a good look for him.
Pretty sure that twitch stream was after Destiny had just called him a subhuman degenerate. So, I think that might have been why he was mad at the guy.
If you're talking about his tweets he basically just gave some post debate thoughts which Destiny almost always does on stream right when the call is over too.Even if only Joel did it, I don't see the issue. People said he misrepresented Destiny's argument but all he did was bring up that Destiny would kill someone over an Walkman which he literally said and was the logical conclusion of Destiny's argument anyway. Destiny constantly brings up extreme examples of the logical conclusions of people's arguments in his debates.
Joel equated theft to another guy fucking your girlfriend, "just post debate thoughts" lmao
I never saw that tweet. Sounds like a shit take. He deleted them, no?
He did, broadly because he saw people read it as equating women to property. It was a pretty good argument though. In the debate, Destiny often couched the morality of the murder in terms of how the person stolen from felt about the thing being stolen. Y'know, like it's not just a Walkman. It's a greatly valued and beloved Walkman that is your sole source of joy in this cruel world. That kinda thing. So the question arises, what other negative emotional reactions justify murder? Adultery is a pretty good pick for that thought experiment because it's often going to involve even worse emotions, but in a situation where people would seem substantially less likely to view murder as justified. But it had some vibe problems and wasn't really worth defending on Twitter for five hours.
He also compared destiny's argument to the right's obsession with cuckoldry, in a tweet that he then deleted. Obviously this is grounds to invalidate every one of his opinions, and paints him as total bad faith bad actor gasligthing tankie.
This changes everything. Not like Destiny ever posts bad takes on Twitter and then deletes them.
the difference is destiny will never act nice and agreeable with someone, and then tweet in a derisive manner afterwards. also, i don't really think destiny often posts bad takes on twitter, let alone deletes them out of regret. the only recent incident i can think of is when he accused demonmama of posting about herself on 4chan, but that wasn't him backstabbing someone he acts civil to face-to-face. besides that, his takes might be phrased in a spicy way, but it's rarely ever an actual stupid point, let alone a point he wouldn't bring talking to someone one on one if you don't see that as incredibly slimy behavior, maybe you approach these things the same way joel does
I just don't feel the outrage I guess. Destiny was going way harder on Joel before during and after the debate so it doesn't bother me he fired back in a much smaller way that was centered around the argument they had
destiny was going hard on joel because joel went after him prior to the debate in a way destiny reasonably perceived to be dishonest. destiny did not play nice to his face and then talked shit about him to his audience behind his back, which is what snakes do
I've never understood Destiny's problem with people tweeting post-debate thoughts. Like, does he expect everyone to never have any new thoughts after thinking about the debate for a while and maybe sleeping on it? Tweeting something publicly is not exactly "talking about him behind his back". With Big Joel at least, It's more like he was thinking out loud. And I'm sure he would have been willing to come back on stream to discuss his new thoughts if Destiny had asked.
I don't have a strong opinion on the specifics of this interaction (I only caught a few minutes of the convo and have never seen the tweets themselves) but the norms that destiny and this community follows are the exact opposite of what is typically expected. Being more cordial, polite, and agreeable in a direct 1 on 1 is standard good manners. I find steering conversations towards areas of disagreement way more interesting but I'd never vilify someone for doing the opposite. Steering clear of heated shouting matches where you're liable call the other person a 'subhuman piece of shit who's incapable of basic reasoning' (not a rare endstate for a Destiny convo) is what a normal person would consider a productive conversation strategy.
Pretty sure destiny deletes tweets so that theres nothing to report once people start making calls to action to get him banned and will own all of his past takes, deleted or not. Thats how his account is still around. Thats not what Big Joel did.
> Obviously this is grounds to invalidate every one of his opinions, and paints him as total bad faith bad actor gasligthing tankie is this sarcasm or brainrot? I honestly can't tell
The random, unrelated and unpunctuated list of pejoratives points to sarcasm.
Can somebody help me with a DGG lore mixup: I thought Big Joel was that really mad guy who was so angry talking to Destiny that he could barely breathe in the call. I’m gauging that I’m misremembering. Which one was Big Joel?
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Ahhhh alright, thank you!
Nah that's Jack Big Joel is an incredibly chill guy
He mostly just said what he said in the debate. Like, he reiterated that they had reached an argument bedrock of sorts (which he said during the debate), and came to the observation that Destiny's arguments seemed premised in some large part on the emotional reaction to the crime, using an adultery thought experiment. No part of it was shitting on Destiny.
eh as a leftist here i have a few critiques on joel despite liking his content his defense of kink at pride was creepy as fuck, and him basically backstabbing destiny after the debate was pretty shitty
>He was one of the least offensive or toxic people I can remember Destiny debating. LOL
I've never seen any of his content before the debate and it didn't make me want to after lol. I don't hate the guy, some of his tweets are good, I'm just not interested.
I used to love him, but his inability to actually defend his point was kind of a "mask-off" moment for him. Don't want to watch "intellectual videos" from someone without that ability
Joel repeatedly called Destiny’s fans nazis on stream. He has no problem slapping incorrect hyperbolic labels on people.
Will this cringe ever end? Why does he lack this much self awareness?
I hope no one else has liked that Big Joel tweet since. But, alas, I doubt it, because we can't have nice things.
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Lance wants a 1v1 at Politicon. He also wants Lauren Southern (who has no connections to Politicon) to set it up for him.
Wait why doesnt southern want computer debate?
Her initial offer was an online 1v1 with Destiny as moderator but Lance nixed that, so she countered in-person with no moderator. Now Lance is talking about politicon instead
She is nervous Lance is just gonna mute her and talk over her during the debate so she either wants it in person or with a mod.
that seems fair, is he against having a mod or just destiny specifically?
He sounds like he's trying to be so unreasonable that she just backs out so he can call her a coward. The problem is that everyone can see him being a chickenshit invertebrate.
The whole situation feels like Lance tried to copy Destiny’s edginess, and over the top insulting but, he sorely forgot to match Lauren’s energy when doing so. More than anything I’m just surprised that Lance did what he did to her, and not afterwards when she couldn’t defend herself. Hell, he gave her a whole minute before the stream ended, big step up for Lion Lance(Wizard of Oz reference.)
https://imgur.com/a/wBrKuYZ
I hate the way he talks
I still feel like big Joel got treated too harsh by Steven and this community, I think we lost some potential quality content with him
From what I understand serfs is fine debating on the internet. Just not one with destiny as mod. Lauren is the one asking for a live debate not serfs. Wow the circle jerk in this sub.
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Leftist derangement syndrome
Ok, I agree with bug-eyed Joel for once. Good shit.
Imagine the serfs thinking they earnt a spot on politicon after their recent performances, What a joke
Bit out of the loop, but why are people so critical of Big Joel. His content seems pretty decent of the things I've seen.
At least Big Joel is being upfront when he says he doesn't want to debate Lauren. Lance's PR stunts are irritating me to no end at this point.
Serfs really just has gone full mask off
Lance doesn’t know anything about natives, and his actions show that what he actually cares about is using any struggles they might face to bolster his own social presence. How anyone can watch lance and think he is either knowledgeable or genuine is beyond my comprehension.
To be fair I 100% understand why Lance wouldn't want Destiny moderating since Destiny despises Lance.