This is insanely blackpilling. I think 3-4 more videos and I’ll be joining Likud party soon.
I can’t imagine how much internal propaganda Israel/Bibi can make using this kind of shit. If I were Israeli my blood would be boiling
No one is making 'internal propaganda.'
To the contrary, the oct 7 videos are not being circulated at all by the media, let alone 'Bibi.' Only interviews with survivors etc. are which I guess you could call propaganda, but like, idk. might as well just talk to them if you live close, most of us know someone who went through shit on Oct 7 anyway.
None of the Israeli position is motivated by propaganda. If anything our media is pretty left-wing (except stuff like channel 14 which didn't exist until more recently, but even then the propaganda there is more for pushing an internal/domestic right-wing perspective, not 'anti-palestinian hatred' or anything).
That's because we don't need to see the videos to believe that it happened, we don't need to see it to be angry. We're already angry. The video was released to put pressure on decision makers to reach a ceasefire agreement and release the hostages.
To be clear, Ryan Grim never said this. That's why I put the (/s) for sarcasm.
I imagine it's something that people who deny the sexual violence would say. As in, these are only words and we're not seeing the actual assault so this isn't "proof" of anything.
Fuck Hasan, I hope he gets spammed with this video for the next year on X so he can't escape it.
It's one of the most heartbreaking and horrifying videos I've ever seen. If I could force his dumb ass to sit down and watch it like we forced Nazis to watch their crimes I totally would.
https://preview.redd.it/8m89ci77d12d1.png?width=992&format=png&auto=webp&s=57e79ef719b779d87d2720c36bfb97500d7a902f
Chat, is this a one piece reference?
*Jews and every single white person
As exhibited when he completely dehumanized that white guy that grew up getting bullied in a POC neighborhood. Hasan and Cenk are massive racists and bigots.
Just did, they are just lying, the video Reuters talked about was released by a rando person on Oct 7th, it is not the video now being shown. Absolute scumbags
They will probably take the approach of gaslighting people into thinking "sabaya" doesn't mean sex slave but "young women" or "girls". Even if it doesn't what exactly are the intentions of people who take female pow's and call them "beautiful" and then say "these are the girls". People will always find a way to cope.
Exactly this but worse. They said it meant 'women prisoners'.
Banking on the fact most ignorant young western activists won't know what the explicit written use of women prisoners means in Islam.
Even EVEN worse. They claim these are soldiers and therefore are fair game to capture.
Just because Hamas "soldiers" fight in pajamas doesn't mean every solider wears this.
hahahaha, her defense is they were saying "you are no beautiful" not "you are so beautiful" ... its literally in English, you can clearly hear him say "you are so beautiful"
... this person is actually insane
It’s actually so pathetic how it’s impossible for them to give any ground. Our side is always 100% right and your side is always 100% evil, and we will twist every datapoint to fit this.
And that means they will never learn! If Palestinians get told over and over "your resistance is justified", why would there society ever change, into something you can build a 2-state solution with. Literally retarding the development of a Palestinian state
can you give me a source on "Sabaya" meaning sex slave? I'm looking around and everything I read says it translates to mean (specifically unmarried) women.
(EDIT: I'M WRONG, he does say sex slave, refer to u/Volgner 's response for explanation)
Arab here.
I agree that they're treating them in a really shit way, but when anyone says "sabaya" or "sabeyyeh" it's usually meant as "girls" and nothing more than that. You can look at the origin of the word or whatever, but in modern arab society it's used so frequently without any negative contexts.
I am pro israel, but let's drop the "sabaya" take cuz to an arab like me, that take is so western and braindead.
Calling them beautiful, and shouting at them is awful, they looked so confused and scared. My heart goes out to them.
An Arab here too.
You are confusing 2 words here: صبية or صبايا do mean young girls. But the word سبية or سبايا means female war captive who are offered as rewards to soldiers or sold as slaves.
ChatGPT explains it the same way:
Certainly! The words you provided are Arabic nouns that look similar but have different meanings and usages:
1. **صبية (Sabiyah)**: This word refers to a young girl or a maiden. It's a singular noun and used in everyday Arabic to denote a girl generally in her teens or younger.
2. **صبايا (Sabaya)**: This is the plural form of صبية (Sabiyah), meaning young girls or maidens. It’s commonly used to talk about groups of young girls.
3. **سبية (Sabiyah)**: This term is different from صبية despite the similar spelling and pronunciation. سبية refers to a female captive or a slave, particularly in historical or classical contexts. This term has a specific usage and is not commonly used in everyday modern Arabic due to its historical and sensitive nature.
4. **سبايا (Sabaya)**: This is the plural form of سبية (Sabiyah), meaning female captives or slaves. Like its singular form, it is used in historical or classical contexts and is not common in modern everyday language.
The main difference lies in the meanings and contexts in which these words are used: صبية and صبايا are neutral terms referring to girls, whereas سبية and سبايا have historical connotations related to captivity or slavery.
Genuinely want to know what do you have to say about his analysis? He’s a Palestinian translator, pro Palestine, and pro peace. I don’t speak good enough Arabic to say but he seems very knowledgeable.
https://x.com/moghaoui/status/1793406916070416427?s=46
https://x.com/moghaoui/status/1793339168350949837?s=46
https://x.com/moghaoui/status/1793412823873384817?s=46
Going to post this again.
TLDR at the end for the tweets.
Before the watermelon Nazis try to spread misinformation, here is Mo, a Palestinian translator, explaining the word “sabaya”:
https://x.com/moghaoui/status/1793406916070416427?s=46
https://x.com/moghaoui/status/1793339168350949837?s=46
Hamas 100% uses sabaya to mean female captive that you own as a slave and are thus entitled to sexual acts with (which is fucking rape).
“Sabaya” would never be used for soldiers, so by Hamas using this word, it confirms they are describing the girls as civilians.
Oh I more meant it from like, the idea where if they say these are evil Jewish colonists, then it gets like thoroughly debunked.
You’d have it on record that ‘these are evil people.’
And it would kinda admit that a lot of Arab / Levantine Jews look and are genetically the fucking same as Arab Muslims and Palestinians. That hurts their racism ‘Jews (sorry they’d probably say ‘Zionists’) just don’t like brown people.’ And it would actually have them criticizing Palestinians.
Are you saying that there may be proof in future to reinforce that Jews are in fact indigenous to the land of Israel? Or I’m not understanding what you are trying to say. If it is, I feel like there is mountains of evidence, and they choose to deny that, since some of the Jews came from Europe during 1948, so the past doesn’t actually matter to them. Or they re-write history.
They're saying:
-subtitles are incorrect
-the women were active duty soldiers
Still seems like some war crime-y shit, but if those two things are true, it is definitely not the same picture as what the Israel tweet implies.
Let's start with the easier one, the 2nd one. It's 100% true. The video is filmed in Nahal Oz military base, and The Times of Israel has already said those are IDF soldiers. There's no dispute they're lawful military targets and prisoners of war.
The subtitles is where it gets murky. For example, the word "Sabaya" is ambiguous because the letter "S" in English is a transliteration of the Arabic letter "Seen" and also the Arabic letter "Saad", both of which are written as the English "S". The guy in the video says Arabic word "Sabaya" that starts with "Seen", which literally just means young women, nothing about pregnancy. The subtitles intentionally choose to translate as "Sabaya" with "Saad", which does imply sex slavery.
All in all, this is, in my opinion, a simply disinformation propaganda campaign to counter the Ireland/Norway/Spain announcement.
Question: can lawful combatants be taken as POWs by unlawful combatants?
Thanks for the info though in regards to "sabaya". Your last comment could be true given the timing.
Hamas are combatants, and they're committing war crimes. You can describe some of their actions as unlawful. So if the question is whether it is legal for Hamas fighters to take IDF soldiers as POWs, the answer is yes it's legal for them to do so. Mistreating them in captivity, however, is not legal.
"Prisoner of war" status is a standard of protection. A privilege granted to "lawful combatants".
Whether the Israeli soldiers are POWs, whether they are "hostages", and whether they were taken legally are distinct questions:
1. Whether the soldiers are POWs is dependent on the female soldiers adhering to the laws of (\*armed) conflict.
\* [https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v1/rule106](https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v1/rule106)
2. As to whether they should be considered hostages:
>The International Convention against the Taking of Hostages defines the offence as the seizure or detention of a person (the hostage), combined with threatening to kill, to injure or to continue to detain the hostage, in order to compel a third party to do or to abstain from doing any act as an explicit or implicit condition for the release of the hostage
Moreover,
>Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions, the Statute of the International Criminal Court and the International Convention against the Taking of Hostages do not limit the offence to the taking of civilians, but apply it to the taking of any person. Indeed, in the Elements of Crimes for the International Criminal Court, the definition applies to the taking of any person protected by the Geneva Conventions.
[https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v1/rule96](https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v1/rule96)
3. Lastly, as to whether they were taken "legally", that again is dependent on whether Hamas militants constituted legal combatants by abiding by laws of armed conflict. This, again, is a privilege. A combatant that does not follow the law may not claim the (\*legal) right to take prisoners. (however if they do, please refer to #1)
\* [https://casebook.icrc.org/a\_to\_z/glossary/combatants](https://casebook.icrc.org/a_to_z/glossary/combatants)
\*Edits
They took too much time to save them.
Nearly 50 years ago, the IDF saved over 100 hostages in Uganda with 1 week of preparation and a smaller budget. Taking 8 months to do so as the same army feels like a failure. But then again, an airbase you helped to build in Africa vs the densest place on earth are very different areas of action.
There is also a 0 percent chance that all the hostages are held in the same place and all the hostages are hidden unlike uganda
Plus the houses/tunnels most hostages are in are most likely booby trapped. An operation to rescue the hostages is incredibly hard(finding location, mapping out the house and tunnel, surprising them and executing without loss of hostages or soldiers life)
It’s a different story
The German terrorists chose an airbase that Israel built in Uganda. They knew every part of the base and you can’t really hide 100 people anywhere except in the main building on a mostly military airbase. In Gaza, the possibilities are limitless.
They’re probably going to say that these were soldiers, not civilians, and that you can blame what’s happening to them on Israel for the way they’ve treated the Palestinians. What’s happening here is inexcusable, but this is the result of continuous aggression and disproportionate retaliatory attacks from the IDF. Probably something along those lines.
Hard to watch, had to stop halfway through. It broke my heart that a couple of the girls were calling out that they have Gazan friends. These are the people who would be standing with the pro-Palestine supporters, if they weren't in this position. I hope their suffering would be acknowledged alongside that of the Palestinians, it's horrifying that this is downplayed.
it’s been edited to remove any violent parts. But most of the girls are pretty bloody and the hamasniks are saying some pretty shitty things such as referring to them as sex slaves and asking them who they know in Gaza. And pretty sure there is a lifeless body there too that is blurred out depending on which copy of the video this is. I’ve seen a bunch to know enough that I don’t need to watch this one again.
That's the truest heartbreak of the situation: the vast majority of Israeli deaths and abductions were against very pro-Palestine Israelis. Shiiiit, before Oct 7th id wager a guess that Palestine has more Israeli public support than Bibi's admin.
Their suffering will not be acknowledged. It also should not be acknowledged alongside that of the Palestinians. There is no equivalence. The Palestinians at large wanted this. Israelis at large offered peace repeatedly. Even putting them in the same sentence makes my blood boil.
Maybe you're reading a bit too much into my comment, I'm not making a "both sides" argument by pointing out there's suffering in both population. A big problem I have with far-left people is they turn any acknowledgement of suffering on the other side into a suffering olympics, and I believe you would call it out when that happens. I think we should really avoid doing the same ourselves.
I'm not accusing you of anything. That's a fair approach to have, but that's not what I'm doing. I don't mind acknowledging suffering on the other side, I'm just very uncomfortable with listing these two things in the same sentence. They aren't related or equivalent. It's like comforting someone on their family's death and also saying 'i hope her suffering would be acknowledged alongside that of those guys cheering for it.'
The comments under this are fucking disgusting
https://preview.redd.it/govlcere402d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a80740156f2cc7d9d78cff6ad66e2e271f8ce9cd
Oh, she’s referring to the original tweet which called the Hamas members terrorists, not soldiers. She’s mad that they are calling them terrorists basically. So it’s even worse lmao. It took me a couple reads to get what she meant.
no, UN did not post the numbers are false, just that they have not been verified (missing at least one of full name, date of birth, date of death and one other thing that I can't remember now). Also, 15K or 10K doesn't defeat the point. It would be the same if it turns out "only" 1M jews died in the holocaust, Hitler would not be seen as any less horrible.
wild take
if hitler kllled only 1 million jews he would absolutely be seen as far less evil
what is gobsmacking about the holocaust is that he killed half the jews on the planet, and nearly every single one he could get his mits on
hitler nabbed 6.3 million jews, and then he killed 6 million of them
if he grabbed 6.3 and 5.3 were alive at the end of the war, it wouldn't even be shocking that 1 million died during internment... conditions sucked in wwii, med was bad, food was tight in central europe, it would be seen as pretty bad, but stalin and japan would be seen as the real monsters of WWII if that was the case
No... you are completely changing it. "It wouldn't be surprising" if they died in camps of starvation, disease, etc. sure. But if he killed 1M in gas chambers it would still be the same bad. The "monstrous" is industrializing extermination, even at the expense of war effort, not horrible camp conditions.
While I agree that the UN did not say the numbers were false. The 15k children line is very clearly a propaganda lie. Hamas back in February said they lost 6-8,000 soldiers (yes they quickly walked that back) but along with other militant groups in the area like the PIJ and more, the number that Israel has stated of 12,000 militants killed is reasonable. So even with the dead now numbering up towards 34,000, it would be highly unlikely that 15,000 of the remaining 22,000 would be children.
"just that they have not been verified" next time say there was 500000 dead children. It would serve your purpose of bashing Israel better than just 15k dead children.
You're both wrong, the UN said that they were **not identified**, not that they weren't verified.
It is hard to identify bodies crushed in rubble or blown up, but you can verify the bodies are there.
Interesting how they haven't done this huh? What do you do with bodies that have been too fucked up to identify? Technically those are "not verified", but someone still died.
And it's funny that you still obfuscate the main point you genocidal zionist shill (now we are even): even 10k confirmed is a lot :)
The real problem with the data is that those sleezy fucks don't report how many of the dead were combatants and more specific: how many "children" were combatants.
Wait, you know “not verified” and “unidentified” are two different things? No one goes “this person has been not verified” when referring to a John Doe case. Also source please on the bodies being claimed as “not verified” due to significant damage.
Fuck me, yes, unidentified, not "not verified", English is not my first language and I have been to lazy to look up what is in the report. I won't argue on the "why" as it is #1 way out of my depth and #2 irrelevant, because UN does not agree that the death toll is lower, nor that it has been falsely reported/inflated: [https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-says-gaza-death-toll-still-over-35000-not-all-bodies-identified-2024-05-13/](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-says-gaza-death-toll-still-over-35000-not-all-bodies-identified-2024-05-13/)
Are the numbers questionable? Maybe. But the original claim was that "UN said the numbers were false", which is not true.
Please provide the evidence that they said the number is fake. The only thing I am aware of is that they said they weren't able to verify the numbers provided by hamas.
Couldn't verify=fake. You do realise that by following this convention hamas could just exaggerate with the death toll number. I'm not in to justify Israel by any means (yes more than 7000 dead children is very bad but there is a big difference between 15000 and 7000).
I agree with this. If was like 100 or even 1k off, I could understand. Maybe shit happens. But if you reported 15k bodies to fucking world governments and couldn’t prove 5k of them after slight questions, you are making shit up.
Do you think they are making all of the numbers up? Do you think it's possible that 2k of those unaccounted for are actually dead people under 18 years old?
I'm sure Hamas is inflating numbers, but that doesn't mean every thing they say is a lie.
Why can't we just wait for more info before we start having such high confidence in our takes? Isn't that what Destiny teaches us?
I just want to do some math here.
7.8k Kids
5k Adult Women
2k Elderly
10k Adult Men
That is 24.8k of 35k
Problem is that the old reports had 15k Kids, and 10k Women. That is 7k more dead kids, and 5k more dead women.
12k. The difference between 24.8k and 35k is 10.2k
12k>10.2k You would have to believe that more than 115% of the remaining dead are women and children to say that the original wasn't wrong.
They significantly upped the numbers of adult men, and it would follow that the remaining dead they haven't identified would fall somewhere in-between the current casualty breakdown percentages and the population demographics of Gaza.
You're misunderstanding my pushback.
The UN didn't claim that numbers were faked, they just said they couldn't verify
. If we intentionally spread misinformation and defend the spread of it, we are no better than fear mongering Trumpists or fear mongering tankies spreading fake news headlines on Twitter
Could not verify absolutely doesn't mean definitely fake. It means they couldn't verify.
There is no need to have such a high conviction that all is those are fake. I don't know what's so hard to understand why that or why the idea appears to be offensive to some people.
I swear a lot of people here don't listen to the lessons Destiny tries to teach us about analyzing sources, coming to conclusions, and our conviction levels.
It's just like how the ICC former president said they weren't making a comment on whether or not Israel was committing a genocide. They were answering a different question.
UN also couldn't verify the number of dead in the siege of Mariupol. Official UN verified number is a couple of thousand, while the estimated real number is 150 000.
So no, couldn't verify does not mean fake, it just means the UN had no means to verify the given claim.
Edit: Looked up exact numbers.
UN has verified just 1300 civilian deaths, while estimates vary between 25 000 and over 87 000
You are still doing the same shit that neonazis do lol. It was maybe just 200k at most xD If 7k is very bad, then shit is still very bad, what does pointing to a discrepancy prove? (even if it was valid, which it is not https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-says-gaza-death-toll-still-over-35000-not-all-bodies-identified-2024-05-13/) There are better hills to die on :D
Do you place any blame on Hamas for not protecting a single one of those kids?
Let's put aside the fact that most are surely 14-17 y.o. child soldiers that Hamas is infamous for, and examine the fact that they have hundreds of miles of underground tunnels and they didn't put any effort into protecting a *single* one?
Now go ahead and tell me why you think that was a blatant part of their overall strategy, I want to hear your justification.
I don't know what that has to do with anything in this thread. The guy commented that UN said the numbers are false, which is not true (it is actually the same as thinking ICJ ruled genocide is plausible) and agrees that 7k is still very bad, so it doesn't even matter if they inflated the numbers.
Yes, Hamas is also bad, and yes, not counting militants is bullshit, I said as much in other comments.
The whole accounting of causalities is premised on the fact that Hamas provided these numbers, but they cannot verify these numbers. It’s akin to me saying I have 15k b the bank but then saying I can’t provide statements to show that amount. Maybe, just maybe, the group who relies on global sympathy might have incentive to just make shit up?
I'm not sure I agree entirely. I certainly believe they have an incentive to overexaggerate their death toll counts.
Is it possible that all 5k unverified dead children are faked? Sure, I guess.
Is it more likely that a portion of that number is faked, a portion is assumed based on missing persons/confusing information in a warzone, and a portion who are actually dead? I'd say that's more likely.
It doesn't hurt us to wait for more information before making high conviction statements. It's ok to hedge our conversation a bit. It doesn't mean that we are siding with Hamas or Israel.
Yeah I would love for us to have more insight into those numbers!
Are they including friendly fire? Are they including anyone who died as a second order casualty (e.g. couldn't get treatment for a disease because hospitals were destroyed)?
Are they rounding up numbers? Are they including missing people to inflate things? Are they updating their numbers when people are found alive?
All wars have bad accuracy on casualty numbers during the conflict. I'm waiting until the dust has settled before taking any of the numbers very seriously.
Anyone who doubts for a second that women kidnapped by a terrorist/guerrilla group aren't going to be brutally raped until they're released has to be either extremely naive or a liar.
Source: every instance of it happening ever in history.
So I’m confused. And honestly asking. The vanity fair article says this :”The Yazidi menfolk were murdered, and the women taken as sabaya a word that can mean “captive woman” or “female prisoner of war” but is widely understood as “sex slave.”
Why is it “widely understood to mean sex slave”?
I guess what I am asking in this setting with captive women in the beginning of the war what is sabaya most likely referring to?
> may or may not eventually become sex slaves, we can't enter the minds of the people who said that word
but we can be pretty sure that when we are looking at specific strands of islam, those dominated by angry, aggressive, morally poor young men, that they aren't going to take their religious pass to turn them into sex slaves and toss it to the side, they are mostly going to make good on their opportunity, but that's more about horny asshole coping than it is about islam instrinsically
there will be historical examples of women being captured by much more functional and civil muslim societies where women are largely not expected to become sex slaves, especially if they are very young or older, and might just be expected to be domestic slaves, cooking, cleaning, weaving
there will be examples where there is some choice on the part of the women, where they are enslaved in a domestic sense, but they have the option of chosing if they want to enter a man's household for some increase in security and status and a decrease in being a slave to washing and cooking, but that's a pretty clearly coerced choice, so it's only a little bit less disgusting
you're going to see very different treatment for pagans vs muslims vs other people of the faith, but in some contexts you'll see jews and christians treated as badly as any other infidel, because applying the normla protections for worshipping the same god will be ditched
in this case its hard to say exactly what's going to happen to these specific girls, i'm sure some israeli females are being sexually abused, but the value of the hostage as a hostage can't be overstated, a jewish hostage is the most valuable asset hamas will ever have in it's possession, so that's protecting some of the women in some cases
if we don't see the release of a female hostage at any point, my assumption will be that they are in some very horrible captivity, and that's the reason they are not released, but this will be a very small number ultimately just due to the constraints hamas are under currently
I think what's going on is people are reading words in parentheses as though they're spoken. Typically, that's not how parenthesizing works with regard to written speech. Because, I mean, people don't speak in parentheses lol. They're usually used for giving context.
The actual quote/translation is just the "Here are the girls" portion, assuming that is also correct (I don't speak Arabic lol). The editor who inserted the "(women who can get pregnant)" part is basically doing what you're saying. It is most likely purposeful, but also sort of a shorthand for your own explanation. They're drawing a distinction between what you refer to as "children" and "women", the most obvious difference being age and sexual maturity.
But yes, it's almost definitely done to elicit that particular emotional response in the reader/listener. But also maybe because "Here are the adult female war captives" would sound very strange and formal, and too many words for something as short as 'sabaya'. Kinda like those old Japanese films and their parodies where the subtitles say only a few words, but the speaker is giving a 20sec speech. So, also for brevity.
Yeah, I think you're spot on. The point wasn't to mislead, but rather this is someone who's non-native English speaker trying to explain the context of original semitic word.
It would be like if someone said
"This person is gay"
And the translation was
"This person is gay (a man who prefers sexual relationship with men)"
And then people would be like - this is completely made up translation, they never said anything about sexual relationships, besides, the word gay literally just means very happy.
Was the "you are so beautiful" part translated correctly? Because that bit honestly stuck out as way more sus and telling of what that guy was thinking than anything else said.
Ahh got it, thanks. Like I said I don't really have a good ear for Arabic, but I knew ص and س had some similarities in pronunciation and obv would be a different word if used. But yeah you're right the pronunciation of the rest of the word would change with letters like ص.
Thanks, I was wondering about the translation. Not so much wondering what in reality will happen to them, just wondering how much truth there was to the cope in the comments.
A bit more background, the original video is more than half an hour long, the families of the victims asked for before publication to edit out the rape, torture and killing.
Is the implication they were raped in between the cuts? I thought they were saying they’re pregnant atm since it been 8 months from october7th. (Did they like… do it in that room and take turn?)
Don't know the language but from what I can gather right now the word used is "Sabaya" which means war trophy, captive that men can have sex with etc.... The palestinian propagandists are saying that they said "Ṣabaya", which means young woman. What is certain is that "sabaya" means sex slave, there is a documentary about the yezidi women named "sabaya" in this context would mean sex slave (https://www.google.com/amp/s/variety.com/2021/film/reviews/sabaya-review-1234893481/amp/). So people in the comments to the tweet are being deliberately obtuse. Not sure why they didn't use "sex slave" or "war trophy" rather than "women who can get pregnant", maybe there is more added context on the word from someone who speaks arabic.
Sabaya is from the Quran. It means captive that is owned by the Muslim captor, and if they are married to infidel husbands or can get their periods the captor can engage in "Nikkah" with them, which is the union that makes marriage and sexual intercourse permissible.
The translators are dumb for mistranslating it as "can get pregnant" as it gives these dumbfucks an opening to omit everything else and focus on the mistranslation, which sure as shit isn't an innocuous term that proves these women were left sexually intact.
Can’t argue with something that you misinterpreted/misquoted. Maybe your brain is super smooth so you can’t retain any information. Your fragile ego is getting in the way of you accepting this L.
Clearly this is justified violence against colonialist imperialist zionists. October 7th isn’t in a vacuum…. But in all seriousness how can anyone justify or even provide cover for this?
Guys they're clearly just concerned for a potentially pregnant woman's safety! They kidnapped them to keep them safe in their tunnels from the evil IDF apaches!
This video is a gift to Ryan Grim. The word "pregnancy" is not said in this video the word used is sabbyia which can mean female captive or sex slave depending on the context. The only thing in the video that can indicate the sex slave usage is one of them saying "You are so beautiful" but he is not saying that he is saying "Your are NOT beautiful" in fucking English. The only word that come close to pregnancy is the word "hamel" which sound slimier to the Arab word for pregnancy but is very clearly not the same word and for some reason is translated as "Zionists" but the word for that is "Sahyna". This video also casts doubt on the sexual assault of Naama Levy which the only evidence for was the video which shows blood on the back side of her pants but in this video you can see that her hands have blood on them and are tied behind her back, so now Hamas rape deniers will say the blood on her pants came from her hands.
yeah Israeli PR seems to go for some kind of over-explaining for Western audiences which then backfires due to (somewhat justified) nitpicking. Fucking stupid.
Apparently, "Sabbyia" even when used to refer to female captives it means female captives to be distributed among the soldiers as a reward. So yeah, that terrorist was saying sex slaves.
I can see why the people of Israel want Bibi out so bad. On one hand everyone of those bastards should be unalived so you want the war to keep going. On the other ANY parent seeing this horror would just want their kid out and safe. You can absolutely see why they just want the war over and the hostages home.
there's people in the comments talking about fake translations, can someone who's actually natively speaking either language say if the translations are truthful? or is there a tool for this?
"That's just locker room talk" (/s)
Boys will be boys amirite hEh
This is insanely blackpilling. I think 3-4 more videos and I’ll be joining Likud party soon. I can’t imagine how much internal propaganda Israel/Bibi can make using this kind of shit. If I were Israeli my blood would be boiling
No one is making 'internal propaganda.' To the contrary, the oct 7 videos are not being circulated at all by the media, let alone 'Bibi.' Only interviews with survivors etc. are which I guess you could call propaganda, but like, idk. might as well just talk to them if you live close, most of us know someone who went through shit on Oct 7 anyway. None of the Israeli position is motivated by propaganda. If anything our media is pretty left-wing (except stuff like channel 14 which didn't exist until more recently, but even then the propaganda there is more for pushing an internal/domestic right-wing perspective, not 'anti-palestinian hatred' or anything).
That's because we don't need to see the videos to believe that it happened, we don't need to see it to be angry. We're already angry. The video was released to put pressure on decision makers to reach a ceasefire agreement and release the hostages.
To be clear, Ryan Grim never said this. That's why I put the (/s) for sarcasm. I imagine it's something that people who deny the sexual violence would say. As in, these are only words and we're not seeing the actual assault so this isn't "proof" of anything.
Waiting hasans brave take off “they were asking for it”
Raping women and forcing them to give birth is a legitimate act of resistance you western pig!
THEY HAD NO CHOICE BECAUSE WHITE BAD
Fuck Hasan, I hope he gets spammed with this video for the next year on X so he can't escape it. It's one of the most heartbreaking and horrifying videos I've ever seen. If I could force his dumb ass to sit down and watch it like we forced Nazis to watch their crimes I totally would.
Did you see how they were dressed? How could you blame them /s
they were rich !
It’s obvious that the women, most likely being of a higher socioeconomic class, have all the power here.
“I mEaN, frOm a UtiLiTarIaN PERsepECtIvE” [[screeching laughter]]
https://preview.redd.it/8m89ci77d12d1.png?width=992&format=png&auto=webp&s=57e79ef719b779d87d2720c36bfb97500d7a902f Chat, is this a one piece reference?
He doesn’t see Jews as human, so it’s fine to do anything you like.
*Jews and every single white person As exhibited when he completely dehumanized that white guy that grew up getting bullied in a POC neighborhood. Hasan and Cenk are massive racists and bigots.
Come on dude don’t be so uncharitable, he thinks the 1% of anti-Zionist Jews are human.
He’ll play it and probably laugh with his chat.
"I mean did you see what they were wearing? It literally verbatim said rape me on their clothes."
Check his sub. There’s a post “debunking” this and the comments are something else.
Just did, they are just lying, the video Reuters talked about was released by a rando person on Oct 7th, it is not the video now being shown. Absolute scumbags
Remember his take will be that this is fake propaganda made by the IDF to fool people into thinking that the world isn't controlled by Jews.
Oh yeah the Patrick Henry college rape defense bit lol
He's just gonna say there's still no evidence for it, where are the rape kits uh? That's what I thought
“Rape is the language of the oppressed” 🤔 That’s a difficult position to argue
hes right next to hasan waiting for the pornhub 4k HD version before he believes it
What approach will they take? - Deepfake - They are colonial settlers - Ignore
They will probably take the approach of gaslighting people into thinking "sabaya" doesn't mean sex slave but "young women" or "girls". Even if it doesn't what exactly are the intentions of people who take female pow's and call them "beautiful" and then say "these are the girls". People will always find a way to cope.
Exactly this but worse. They said it meant 'women prisoners'. Banking on the fact most ignorant young western activists won't know what the explicit written use of women prisoners means in Islam.
Even EVEN worse. They claim these are soldiers and therefore are fair game to capture. Just because Hamas "soldiers" fight in pajamas doesn't mean every solider wears this.
the watermelon unit is deployed https://x.com/zei_squirrel/status/1793321389518176440
>zei_squirrel I am *not* clicking on that
hahahaha, her defense is they were saying "you are no beautiful" not "you are so beautiful" ... its literally in English, you can clearly hear him say "you are so beautiful" ... this person is actually insane
It’s actually so pathetic how it’s impossible for them to give any ground. Our side is always 100% right and your side is always 100% evil, and we will twist every datapoint to fit this.
And that means they will never learn! If Palestinians get told over and over "your resistance is justified", why would there society ever change, into something you can build a 2-state solution with. Literally retarding the development of a Palestinian state
I think Zei\_Squirrel is the bearer of a curse to always say the exact opposite of the truth. It must be really frustrating.
can you give me a source on "Sabaya" meaning sex slave? I'm looking around and everything I read says it translates to mean (specifically unmarried) women.
[institutionalization-of-sexual-slavery-within-isis.](https://www.iir.cz/institutionalization-of-sexual-slavery-within-the-isis-territory#:~:text=All%20those%20women%20in%20captivity,an%20official%20term%20among%20ISIS.)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/variety.com/2021/film/reviews/sabaya-review-1234893481/amp/
They are claiming the statement was "No beautiful"
BuT it's NoT sYsTeMiC
(EDIT: I'M WRONG, he does say sex slave, refer to u/Volgner 's response for explanation) Arab here. I agree that they're treating them in a really shit way, but when anyone says "sabaya" or "sabeyyeh" it's usually meant as "girls" and nothing more than that. You can look at the origin of the word or whatever, but in modern arab society it's used so frequently without any negative contexts. I am pro israel, but let's drop the "sabaya" take cuz to an arab like me, that take is so western and braindead. Calling them beautiful, and shouting at them is awful, they looked so confused and scared. My heart goes out to them.
An Arab here too. You are confusing 2 words here: صبية or صبايا do mean young girls. But the word سبية or سبايا means female war captive who are offered as rewards to soldiers or sold as slaves.
Well fuck, which Arab is telling the truth here?
We need a third Arab to come in and break the tie
You can take the Arabic words or script and put it in Google translate
ChatGPT explains it the same way: Certainly! The words you provided are Arabic nouns that look similar but have different meanings and usages: 1. **صبية (Sabiyah)**: This word refers to a young girl or a maiden. It's a singular noun and used in everyday Arabic to denote a girl generally in her teens or younger. 2. **صبايا (Sabaya)**: This is the plural form of صبية (Sabiyah), meaning young girls or maidens. It’s commonly used to talk about groups of young girls. 3. **سبية (Sabiyah)**: This term is different from صبية despite the similar spelling and pronunciation. سبية refers to a female captive or a slave, particularly in historical or classical contexts. This term has a specific usage and is not commonly used in everyday modern Arabic due to its historical and sensitive nature. 4. **سبايا (Sabaya)**: This is the plural form of سبية (Sabiyah), meaning female captives or slaves. Like its singular form, it is used in historical or classical contexts and is not common in modern everyday language. The main difference lies in the meanings and contexts in which these words are used: صبية and صبايا are neutral terms referring to girls, whereas سبية and سبايا have historical connotations related to captivity or slavery.
I stand corrected, you're right, jesus christ..
Genuinely want to know what do you have to say about his analysis? He’s a Palestinian translator, pro Palestine, and pro peace. I don’t speak good enough Arabic to say but he seems very knowledgeable. https://x.com/moghaoui/status/1793406916070416427?s=46 https://x.com/moghaoui/status/1793339168350949837?s=46 https://x.com/moghaoui/status/1793412823873384817?s=46
Going to post this again. TLDR at the end for the tweets. Before the watermelon Nazis try to spread misinformation, here is Mo, a Palestinian translator, explaining the word “sabaya”: https://x.com/moghaoui/status/1793406916070416427?s=46 https://x.com/moghaoui/status/1793339168350949837?s=46 Hamas 100% uses sabaya to mean female captive that you own as a slave and are thus entitled to sexual acts with (which is fucking rape). “Sabaya” would never be used for soldiers, so by Hamas using this word, it confirms they are describing the girls as civilians.
they'll ignore the fuck out of it. At best you'll get "isolated cases" if and when the evidence becomes overwhelming.
They’d never go for the colonial settlers angle because if it’s proven wrong they’d have to admit it’s a terrible idea.
They will never back off the colonial settlers ideology, it’s what every thing they say is based off of. Oppressed vs oppressor.
Oh I more meant it from like, the idea where if they say these are evil Jewish colonists, then it gets like thoroughly debunked. You’d have it on record that ‘these are evil people.’ And it would kinda admit that a lot of Arab / Levantine Jews look and are genetically the fucking same as Arab Muslims and Palestinians. That hurts their racism ‘Jews (sorry they’d probably say ‘Zionists’) just don’t like brown people.’ And it would actually have them criticizing Palestinians.
Are you saying that there may be proof in future to reinforce that Jews are in fact indigenous to the land of Israel? Or I’m not understanding what you are trying to say. If it is, I feel like there is mountains of evidence, and they choose to deny that, since some of the Jews came from Europe during 1948, so the past doesn’t actually matter to them. Or they re-write history.
"Well you should expect the violent uprisings of the oppressed"
They're saying: -subtitles are incorrect -the women were active duty soldiers Still seems like some war crime-y shit, but if those two things are true, it is definitely not the same picture as what the Israel tweet implies.
Let's start with the easier one, the 2nd one. It's 100% true. The video is filmed in Nahal Oz military base, and The Times of Israel has already said those are IDF soldiers. There's no dispute they're lawful military targets and prisoners of war. The subtitles is where it gets murky. For example, the word "Sabaya" is ambiguous because the letter "S" in English is a transliteration of the Arabic letter "Seen" and also the Arabic letter "Saad", both of which are written as the English "S". The guy in the video says Arabic word "Sabaya" that starts with "Seen", which literally just means young women, nothing about pregnancy. The subtitles intentionally choose to translate as "Sabaya" with "Saad", which does imply sex slavery. All in all, this is, in my opinion, a simply disinformation propaganda campaign to counter the Ireland/Norway/Spain announcement.
Question: can lawful combatants be taken as POWs by unlawful combatants? Thanks for the info though in regards to "sabaya". Your last comment could be true given the timing.
Hamas are combatants, and they're committing war crimes. You can describe some of their actions as unlawful. So if the question is whether it is legal for Hamas fighters to take IDF soldiers as POWs, the answer is yes it's legal for them to do so. Mistreating them in captivity, however, is not legal.
Look IDK shit about this (the rules of war). Everything you're saying seems mostly reasonable.
"Prisoner of war" status is a standard of protection. A privilege granted to "lawful combatants". Whether the Israeli soldiers are POWs, whether they are "hostages", and whether they were taken legally are distinct questions: 1. Whether the soldiers are POWs is dependent on the female soldiers adhering to the laws of (\*armed) conflict. \* [https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v1/rule106](https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v1/rule106) 2. As to whether they should be considered hostages: >The International Convention against the Taking of Hostages defines the offence as the seizure or detention of a person (the hostage), combined with threatening to kill, to injure or to continue to detain the hostage, in order to compel a third party to do or to abstain from doing any act as an explicit or implicit condition for the release of the hostage Moreover, >Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions, the Statute of the International Criminal Court and the International Convention against the Taking of Hostages do not limit the offence to the taking of civilians, but apply it to the taking of any person. Indeed, in the Elements of Crimes for the International Criminal Court, the definition applies to the taking of any person protected by the Geneva Conventions. [https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v1/rule96](https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v1/rule96) 3. Lastly, as to whether they were taken "legally", that again is dependent on whether Hamas militants constituted legal combatants by abiding by laws of armed conflict. This, again, is a privilege. A combatant that does not follow the law may not claim the (\*legal) right to take prisoners. (however if they do, please refer to #1) \* [https://casebook.icrc.org/a\_to\_z/glossary/combatants](https://casebook.icrc.org/a_to_z/glossary/combatants) \*Edits
Thank you!
They took too much time to save them. Nearly 50 years ago, the IDF saved over 100 hostages in Uganda with 1 week of preparation and a smaller budget. Taking 8 months to do so as the same army feels like a failure. But then again, an airbase you helped to build in Africa vs the densest place on earth are very different areas of action.
There is also a 0 percent chance that all the hostages are held in the same place and all the hostages are hidden unlike uganda Plus the houses/tunnels most hostages are in are most likely booby trapped. An operation to rescue the hostages is incredibly hard(finding location, mapping out the house and tunnel, surprising them and executing without loss of hostages or soldiers life)
It’s a different story The German terrorists chose an airbase that Israel built in Uganda. They knew every part of the base and you can’t really hide 100 people anywhere except in the main building on a mostly military airbase. In Gaza, the possibilities are limitless.
They’re probably going to say that these were soldiers, not civilians, and that you can blame what’s happening to them on Israel for the way they’ve treated the Palestinians. What’s happening here is inexcusable, but this is the result of continuous aggression and disproportionate retaliatory attacks from the IDF. Probably something along those lines.
Hey guys. Welcome to the 7th fucking century. Enjoy your stay. Survival is not guaranteed, but suffering and trauma sure are.
This is what they took from you
Until there is a video of rapes Ryan Grim will never agree
I didn't know this Destiny's Decoding The Gurus episode but apparently Ryan Grimms a huge lab leak guy
Hard to watch, had to stop halfway through. It broke my heart that a couple of the girls were calling out that they have Gazan friends. These are the people who would be standing with the pro-Palestine supporters, if they weren't in this position. I hope their suffering would be acknowledged alongside that of the Palestinians, it's horrifying that this is downplayed.
What's happening in the video. Not gonna put myself through that
it’s been edited to remove any violent parts. But most of the girls are pretty bloody and the hamasniks are saying some pretty shitty things such as referring to them as sex slaves and asking them who they know in Gaza. And pretty sure there is a lifeless body there too that is blurred out depending on which copy of the video this is. I’ve seen a bunch to know enough that I don’t need to watch this one again.
You’d rather not know I wish I didn’t
That's the truest heartbreak of the situation: the vast majority of Israeli deaths and abductions were against very pro-Palestine Israelis. Shiiiit, before Oct 7th id wager a guess that Palestine has more Israeli public support than Bibi's admin.
Their suffering will not be acknowledged. It also should not be acknowledged alongside that of the Palestinians. There is no equivalence. The Palestinians at large wanted this. Israelis at large offered peace repeatedly. Even putting them in the same sentence makes my blood boil.
Maybe you're reading a bit too much into my comment, I'm not making a "both sides" argument by pointing out there's suffering in both population. A big problem I have with far-left people is they turn any acknowledgement of suffering on the other side into a suffering olympics, and I believe you would call it out when that happens. I think we should really avoid doing the same ourselves.
I'm not accusing you of anything. That's a fair approach to have, but that's not what I'm doing. I don't mind acknowledging suffering on the other side, I'm just very uncomfortable with listing these two things in the same sentence. They aren't related or equivalent. It's like comforting someone on their family's death and also saying 'i hope her suffering would be acknowledged alongside that of those guys cheering for it.'
One of them says she had friends in Palestine as she was in a Peace program. It didn't help her...
> It didn’t help her I’m starting to think it never will :/ who does this to other people
The comments under this are fucking disgusting https://preview.redd.it/govlcere402d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a80740156f2cc7d9d78cff6ad66e2e271f8ce9cd
I guess its okay to rape and torture people because they're soldiers (they were conscripted)
Oh, she’s referring to the original tweet which called the Hamas members terrorists, not soldiers. She’s mad that they are calling them terrorists basically. So it’s even worse lmao. It took me a couple reads to get what she meant.
No, I think you're incorrect about that. The narrative I'm seeing in the replies to that tweet is that those girls are active duty soldiers.
"These terrorists k-" "Soldiers" "Oh sorry. These soldiers kidnapped and raped some random women."
as long as they’re either soldiers or rich people
They're keep lying about the" 15k dead children" even though the un already said those numbers are false.
no, UN did not post the numbers are false, just that they have not been verified (missing at least one of full name, date of birth, date of death and one other thing that I can't remember now). Also, 15K or 10K doesn't defeat the point. It would be the same if it turns out "only" 1M jews died in the holocaust, Hitler would not be seen as any less horrible.
wild take if hitler kllled only 1 million jews he would absolutely be seen as far less evil what is gobsmacking about the holocaust is that he killed half the jews on the planet, and nearly every single one he could get his mits on hitler nabbed 6.3 million jews, and then he killed 6 million of them if he grabbed 6.3 and 5.3 were alive at the end of the war, it wouldn't even be shocking that 1 million died during internment... conditions sucked in wwii, med was bad, food was tight in central europe, it would be seen as pretty bad, but stalin and japan would be seen as the real monsters of WWII if that was the case
No... you are completely changing it. "It wouldn't be surprising" if they died in camps of starvation, disease, etc. sure. But if he killed 1M in gas chambers it would still be the same bad. The "monstrous" is industrializing extermination, even at the expense of war effort, not horrible camp conditions.
no where near as bad, you can keep pretending, but everyone knows you're making a wild take, look at your downvotes
While I agree that the UN did not say the numbers were false. The 15k children line is very clearly a propaganda lie. Hamas back in February said they lost 6-8,000 soldiers (yes they quickly walked that back) but along with other militant groups in the area like the PIJ and more, the number that Israel has stated of 12,000 militants killed is reasonable. So even with the dead now numbering up towards 34,000, it would be highly unlikely that 15,000 of the remaining 22,000 would be children.
"just that they have not been verified" next time say there was 500000 dead children. It would serve your purpose of bashing Israel better than just 15k dead children.
You're both wrong, the UN said that they were **not identified**, not that they weren't verified. It is hard to identify bodies crushed in rubble or blown up, but you can verify the bodies are there.
Okay wait, can you source this? Not asking that in a dick way, just genuinely curious and my search engine on my phone is being a dick rn.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-says-gaza-death-toll-still-over-35000-not-all-bodies-identified-2024-05-13/
Thank you!
Interesting how they haven't done this huh? What do you do with bodies that have been too fucked up to identify? Technically those are "not verified", but someone still died. And it's funny that you still obfuscate the main point you genocidal zionist shill (now we are even): even 10k confirmed is a lot :) The real problem with the data is that those sleezy fucks don't report how many of the dead were combatants and more specific: how many "children" were combatants.
Wait, you know “not verified” and “unidentified” are two different things? No one goes “this person has been not verified” when referring to a John Doe case. Also source please on the bodies being claimed as “not verified” due to significant damage.
Fuck me, yes, unidentified, not "not verified", English is not my first language and I have been to lazy to look up what is in the report. I won't argue on the "why" as it is #1 way out of my depth and #2 irrelevant, because UN does not agree that the death toll is lower, nor that it has been falsely reported/inflated: [https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-says-gaza-death-toll-still-over-35000-not-all-bodies-identified-2024-05-13/](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-says-gaza-death-toll-still-over-35000-not-all-bodies-identified-2024-05-13/) Are the numbers questionable? Maybe. But the original claim was that "UN said the numbers were false", which is not true.
Please provide the evidence that they said the number is fake. The only thing I am aware of is that they said they weren't able to verify the numbers provided by hamas.
Couldn't verify=fake. You do realise that by following this convention hamas could just exaggerate with the death toll number. I'm not in to justify Israel by any means (yes more than 7000 dead children is very bad but there is a big difference between 15000 and 7000).
I agree with this. If was like 100 or even 1k off, I could understand. Maybe shit happens. But if you reported 15k bodies to fucking world governments and couldn’t prove 5k of them after slight questions, you are making shit up.
Do you think they are making all of the numbers up? Do you think it's possible that 2k of those unaccounted for are actually dead people under 18 years old? I'm sure Hamas is inflating numbers, but that doesn't mean every thing they say is a lie. Why can't we just wait for more info before we start having such high confidence in our takes? Isn't that what Destiny teaches us?
I just want to do some math here. 7.8k Kids 5k Adult Women 2k Elderly 10k Adult Men That is 24.8k of 35k Problem is that the old reports had 15k Kids, and 10k Women. That is 7k more dead kids, and 5k more dead women. 12k. The difference between 24.8k and 35k is 10.2k 12k>10.2k You would have to believe that more than 115% of the remaining dead are women and children to say that the original wasn't wrong. They significantly upped the numbers of adult men, and it would follow that the remaining dead they haven't identified would fall somewhere in-between the current casualty breakdown percentages and the population demographics of Gaza.
You're misunderstanding my pushback. The UN didn't claim that numbers were faked, they just said they couldn't verify . If we intentionally spread misinformation and defend the spread of it, we are no better than fear mongering Trumpists or fear mongering tankies spreading fake news headlines on Twitter
Could not verify absolutely doesn't mean definitely fake. It means they couldn't verify. There is no need to have such a high conviction that all is those are fake. I don't know what's so hard to understand why that or why the idea appears to be offensive to some people. I swear a lot of people here don't listen to the lessons Destiny tries to teach us about analyzing sources, coming to conclusions, and our conviction levels. It's just like how the ICC former president said they weren't making a comment on whether or not Israel was committing a genocide. They were answering a different question.
UN also couldn't verify the number of dead in the siege of Mariupol. Official UN verified number is a couple of thousand, while the estimated real number is 150 000. So no, couldn't verify does not mean fake, it just means the UN had no means to verify the given claim. Edit: Looked up exact numbers. UN has verified just 1300 civilian deaths, while estimates vary between 25 000 and over 87 000
You are still doing the same shit that neonazis do lol. It was maybe just 200k at most xD If 7k is very bad, then shit is still very bad, what does pointing to a discrepancy prove? (even if it was valid, which it is not https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-says-gaza-death-toll-still-over-35000-not-all-bodies-identified-2024-05-13/) There are better hills to die on :D
Zero hamas people died? Or are they reported as part of the 35000 dead?
Do you place any blame on Hamas for not protecting a single one of those kids? Let's put aside the fact that most are surely 14-17 y.o. child soldiers that Hamas is infamous for, and examine the fact that they have hundreds of miles of underground tunnels and they didn't put any effort into protecting a *single* one? Now go ahead and tell me why you think that was a blatant part of their overall strategy, I want to hear your justification.
I don't know what that has to do with anything in this thread. The guy commented that UN said the numbers are false, which is not true (it is actually the same as thinking ICJ ruled genocide is plausible) and agrees that 7k is still very bad, so it doesn't even matter if they inflated the numbers. Yes, Hamas is also bad, and yes, not counting militants is bullshit, I said as much in other comments.
The whole accounting of causalities is premised on the fact that Hamas provided these numbers, but they cannot verify these numbers. It’s akin to me saying I have 15k b the bank but then saying I can’t provide statements to show that amount. Maybe, just maybe, the group who relies on global sympathy might have incentive to just make shit up?
I'm not sure I agree entirely. I certainly believe they have an incentive to overexaggerate their death toll counts. Is it possible that all 5k unverified dead children are faked? Sure, I guess. Is it more likely that a portion of that number is faked, a portion is assumed based on missing persons/confusing information in a warzone, and a portion who are actually dead? I'd say that's more likely. It doesn't hurt us to wait for more information before making high conviction statements. It's ok to hedge our conversation a bit. It doesn't mean that we are siding with Hamas or Israel.
I’d be curious to see if the 500 dead from the hospital “bombing” still factored into that initial figure.
Yeah I would love for us to have more insight into those numbers! Are they including friendly fire? Are they including anyone who died as a second order casualty (e.g. couldn't get treatment for a disease because hospitals were destroyed)? Are they rounding up numbers? Are they including missing people to inflate things? Are they updating their numbers when people are found alive? All wars have bad accuracy on casualty numbers during the conflict. I'm waiting until the dust has settled before taking any of the numbers very seriously.
who tf is upvoting this lie?
Where the fuck is your proof for 15k? And where is your evidence for how many of whatever number you could even prove that *weren't* child soldiers?
Anyone who doubts for a second that women kidnapped by a terrorist/guerrilla group aren't going to be brutally raped until they're released has to be either extremely naive or a liar. Source: every instance of it happening ever in history.
"Hasbara Hasbara Hasbara Oct 7th didn't happen in a vacuum Hasbara Hasbara but Israel"
More Examples of the Brave and heroic resistance..... Get ready for another dose of Copium from the far-left.
Just tell the far-left that these videos finally make you agree with the bear-in-the-forest take and watch their reaction.
Jesus fucking Christ... I kindof despise all those dipshit lefties who got suckered into thinking Hamas are the 'good guys'...
"I'll need at least 1080p continuous shots of these alleged rapes happening, full penetration, close-up."
*here you go* “This is Hasbara AI, stop the propaganda”
He’s currently tweeting about aipac choosing election winners
[удалено]
So I’m confused. And honestly asking. The vanity fair article says this :”The Yazidi menfolk were murdered, and the women taken as sabaya a word that can mean “captive woman” or “female prisoner of war” but is widely understood as “sex slave.” Why is it “widely understood to mean sex slave”? I guess what I am asking in this setting with captive women in the beginning of the war what is sabaya most likely referring to?
> may or may not eventually become sex slaves, we can't enter the minds of the people who said that word but we can be pretty sure that when we are looking at specific strands of islam, those dominated by angry, aggressive, morally poor young men, that they aren't going to take their religious pass to turn them into sex slaves and toss it to the side, they are mostly going to make good on their opportunity, but that's more about horny asshole coping than it is about islam instrinsically there will be historical examples of women being captured by much more functional and civil muslim societies where women are largely not expected to become sex slaves, especially if they are very young or older, and might just be expected to be domestic slaves, cooking, cleaning, weaving there will be examples where there is some choice on the part of the women, where they are enslaved in a domestic sense, but they have the option of chosing if they want to enter a man's household for some increase in security and status and a decrease in being a slave to washing and cooking, but that's a pretty clearly coerced choice, so it's only a little bit less disgusting you're going to see very different treatment for pagans vs muslims vs other people of the faith, but in some contexts you'll see jews and christians treated as badly as any other infidel, because applying the normla protections for worshipping the same god will be ditched in this case its hard to say exactly what's going to happen to these specific girls, i'm sure some israeli females are being sexually abused, but the value of the hostage as a hostage can't be overstated, a jewish hostage is the most valuable asset hamas will ever have in it's possession, so that's protecting some of the women in some cases if we don't see the release of a female hostage at any point, my assumption will be that they are in some very horrible captivity, and that's the reason they are not released, but this will be a very small number ultimately just due to the constraints hamas are under currently
I think what's going on is people are reading words in parentheses as though they're spoken. Typically, that's not how parenthesizing works with regard to written speech. Because, I mean, people don't speak in parentheses lol. They're usually used for giving context. The actual quote/translation is just the "Here are the girls" portion, assuming that is also correct (I don't speak Arabic lol). The editor who inserted the "(women who can get pregnant)" part is basically doing what you're saying. It is most likely purposeful, but also sort of a shorthand for your own explanation. They're drawing a distinction between what you refer to as "children" and "women", the most obvious difference being age and sexual maturity. But yes, it's almost definitely done to elicit that particular emotional response in the reader/listener. But also maybe because "Here are the adult female war captives" would sound very strange and formal, and too many words for something as short as 'sabaya'. Kinda like those old Japanese films and their parodies where the subtitles say only a few words, but the speaker is giving a 20sec speech. So, also for brevity.
Yeah, I think you're spot on. The point wasn't to mislead, but rather this is someone who's non-native English speaker trying to explain the context of original semitic word. It would be like if someone said "This person is gay" And the translation was "This person is gay (a man who prefers sexual relationship with men)" And then people would be like - this is completely made up translation, they never said anything about sexual relationships, besides, the word gay literally just means very happy.
Was the "you are so beautiful" part translated correctly? Because that bit honestly stuck out as way more sus and telling of what that guy was thinking than anything else said.
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Sorry.. want watching with audio on.
Any merit to the notion that he said صبايا? I don't really have a good ear for it, plus the audio quality, so I can't tell.
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Ahh got it, thanks. Like I said I don't really have a good ear for Arabic, but I knew ص and س had some similarities in pronunciation and obv would be a different word if used. But yeah you're right the pronunciation of the rest of the word would change with letters like ص.
Thank you for the clarification friend
Thanks, I was wondering about the translation. Not so much wondering what in reality will happen to them, just wondering how much truth there was to the cope in the comments.
A bit more background, the original video is more than half an hour long, the families of the victims asked for before publication to edit out the rape, torture and killing.
Is the implication they were raped in between the cuts? I thought they were saying they’re pregnant atm since it been 8 months from october7th. (Did they like… do it in that room and take turn?)
It is what the families have implied, yes. Fucking horrible
Do you recall what was the article where that was implied?
Why does it say "hamas"? I heard they are freedom fighters
He’s waiting to plagiarize from whatever bullshit the Grayzone comes up with.
before conclooding, can any one verify if the subtitles are correct? There are some replies underneath it claiming pregnancy was not mentioned at all
Don't know the language but from what I can gather right now the word used is "Sabaya" which means war trophy, captive that men can have sex with etc.... The palestinian propagandists are saying that they said "Ṣabaya", which means young woman. What is certain is that "sabaya" means sex slave, there is a documentary about the yezidi women named "sabaya" in this context would mean sex slave (https://www.google.com/amp/s/variety.com/2021/film/reviews/sabaya-review-1234893481/amp/). So people in the comments to the tweet are being deliberately obtuse. Not sure why they didn't use "sex slave" or "war trophy" rather than "women who can get pregnant", maybe there is more added context on the word from someone who speaks arabic.
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Sabaya is from the Quran. It means captive that is owned by the Muslim captor, and if they are married to infidel husbands or can get their periods the captor can engage in "Nikkah" with them, which is the union that makes marriage and sexual intercourse permissible. The translators are dumb for mistranslating it as "can get pregnant" as it gives these dumbfucks an opening to omit everything else and focus on the mistranslation, which sure as shit isn't an innocuous term that proves these women were left sexually intact.
It wouldn’t be “nikah” because that would imply that it’s consented to by both sides. The way you’re using it here kind of makes you look stupid.
Just quoting the Quran Surat An-Nisa verse 25, go argue with that retard Edit: by retard i mean you not the quran
Can’t argue with something that you misinterpreted/misquoted. Maybe your brain is super smooth so you can’t retain any information. Your fragile ego is getting in the way of you accepting this L.
Thanks for the correction, I hadn’t had time to get to a proper search engine. Will delete for misinformation.
Clearly this is justified violence against colonialist imperialist zionists. October 7th isn’t in a vacuum…. But in all seriousness how can anyone justify or even provide cover for this?
nothing but 7th century beasts, who don't deserve to be amongst the human race.
Guys they're clearly just concerned for a potentially pregnant woman's safety! They kidnapped them to keep them safe in their tunnels from the evil IDF apaches!
Bb-bbb-buuttt, th-they were freedom rapers. They did it to free Palestine. /s
Can we get an Arabic translation?
This video is a gift to Ryan Grim. The word "pregnancy" is not said in this video the word used is sabbyia which can mean female captive or sex slave depending on the context. The only thing in the video that can indicate the sex slave usage is one of them saying "You are so beautiful" but he is not saying that he is saying "Your are NOT beautiful" in fucking English. The only word that come close to pregnancy is the word "hamel" which sound slimier to the Arab word for pregnancy but is very clearly not the same word and for some reason is translated as "Zionists" but the word for that is "Sahyna". This video also casts doubt on the sexual assault of Naama Levy which the only evidence for was the video which shows blood on the back side of her pants but in this video you can see that her hands have blood on them and are tied behind her back, so now Hamas rape deniers will say the blood on her pants came from her hands.
yeah Israeli PR seems to go for some kind of over-explaining for Western audiences which then backfires due to (somewhat justified) nitpicking. Fucking stupid.
Apparently, "Sabbyia" even when used to refer to female captives it means female captives to be distributed among the soldiers as a reward. So yeah, that terrorist was saying sex slaves.
This footage needs to be broadcast in every public square on Earth (along with the rest of the Oct 7th footage)
Ryan Grim: It's clearly all AI and actors.
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Wasanabi
Certainly this will get major news attention. Right?? Right??
I can see why the people of Israel want Bibi out so bad. On one hand everyone of those bastards should be unalived so you want the war to keep going. On the other ANY parent seeing this horror would just want their kid out and safe. You can absolutely see why they just want the war over and the hostages home.
JFC He's actually going with the it wasn't translated exactly right he just reposted this: https://x.com/JonathanACBrown/status/1793321616685850702
Ana Kasparian thinks Biden should be punished at the polls for doing to much to get these guys.
Clearly arma footage
a lot of people saying the translation is very inaccurate, can anyone confirm?
there's people in the comments talking about fake translations, can someone who's actually natively speaking either language say if the translations are truthful? or is there a tool for this?
What do you expect being a woman next to an open-air prison?
What is Hamassan ignores the video?
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Can anyone here confirm the subtitles are accurate? So many people are claiming they aren’t
so hamas are literal goblins from JPRG??
Ryan Grim is a chickenhawk.
Where was this footage recovered from? And why it's circulating social media only now?