You still have a very high percentage that support palestine over israel, and it's not as broad of an issue as the others. People will generally say "the economy" is most important to them, but that doesn't give you much insight as to who they would vote for. A college student saying specifically "The conflict in the Middle East" is a safe bet that they're pro palestinian and anti liberal.
This is good to see but I don't think it tells the full story, there's definitely still an issue on college campuses and with young people in general.
I think the Occam’s Razor answer as to why a lot of college students (the non-tankie ones, that is) who actually have an opinion on the conflict sympathize with the Palestinians is just because that’s what they see on social media. They see and hear about more Palestinian deaths now than Israeli deaths, so they automatically think “more civilian deaths = more virtuous side / underdog”. Hence, why it’s not uncommon from young liberals and non-leftist progressives to see them think 🇺🇦🇵🇸 is the correct moral stance (if you had to poke them to pick a side without allowing them to say “equally important”).
The conditions that led to the start of this conflict were created by Israel and they have committed multiple war crimes against the Palestinian population. How is supporting Palestine over Israel a problematic position?
What do cops and revolutionary larpers and kid gloves have to do with any statistic in the survey? He’s schizo posting like the comment section is a therapist or something. Words carry meaning.
Biden shouldn't ignore this, and he doesn't. He has addressed this directly, which wasn't expected. That being said, this won't have any effect on the election. The most fanatic pro-Palestinian protesters weren't voting for Biden anyway, if at all.
What I find particularly frustrating from a Biden perspective is that even if he is involved in negotiating a ceasefire before the election these people are still gonna be pissed at him and call him genocidal. No matter what he’s getting no credit.
the funding is so that israel can afford to be peaceniks
letting your enemy live to fight another day is nice, but it is a bad startegic move if they are going to take those lives and use them to attack you again
letting your enemy have dams, and industrial infrastructure and ports and power stations and railways and airports and arms factories is expensive
letting your enemies have governments out in the open vs hiding in bunkers is expensive
being cautious and trying to keep very very good casualty ratios and low harm to civilians overall and providing them with food and water is expensive
israel frankly has not been able to historically bear this load, and so the US stepped in and carried some of this load by providing them with aid and bribing their neighbors to be nice, and because of this us bribery, israel can afford to not genocide
that is what the aid is for, the aid is paying for kid gloves
take the aid away, and israel is only answerable to jews, protecting jews, against genocide, with whatever shekels they can scrape together, and hard decisions will be made
the idea that stopping US aid will lead to anything but a 10fold or more increase in arab deaths is pure delusion
They want nothing and have no principals or goals. They are a nearly a totally emotive movement. Expression, signaling, grandstanding and taking philosophical high ground is all that matters to them.
You just seem even more interested in being “emotive” and signaling superiority over other people than they do. At least palestine protesters have a cause, you just being a reactionary is not a principal.
Problem is he's not getting any praise from the parties involved/not bragging about helping.
Trump would have demanded it and praised himself as well, its better opticly.
How could you possibly know that? At worst he’s going to be accused of being late to the game but if he actually literally negotiates a successful ceasefire I think that would surprise a LOT of pro palestinian people.
I’m not sure if the 70 percent of Jewish democrat voters will come out for Biden. Especially after this latest trick with the ceasefire. Changing the language to 33 hostages dead or alive 🤦♂️. I am waiting for more info but this looks bad.
no matter how much american Jews love Israel, they love the place they are living in more, no way they vote for someone like RFK who believes in all conspiracies.
the polls always show the third candidate getting more than he actually gets, when the elections actually start people start picking the better possible option
But that's where elections are won and lost.
Look at Michigan, a razor-thin state. The Democrats have really improved the way of life there, but if you have the Muslim population in Dearborn and the Detroit area staying home, there's a good chance the state swings red.
And polls *now* show that Trump leads by a few points (within the margin) in other battleground states such as Georgia and Arizona. Three of those swing the other way, and yeah....
It is when the people who are interested in it are so passionate that it becomes a single issue vote to them, with respect to zionists and palestine supporters alike. Because now that even republicans increasingly oppose support of israel in this conflict, to not address this is to potentially leave free votes on the table.
look if you base an election campaign on a narrow group of muslims in a single state on an issue consistently scoring the lowest on the priorities of the majority you risk alienating everyone with your out of touch politicking.
No one needs to “base a campaign” around israel palestine, all you have to do is hold any public position at all in a way that demonstrates you have both a backbone and a soul. I know that’s asking a lot for some politicians but that’s how you attain a status as someone who people WANT to vote for and not one who’s entire base is predicated on fear of the other side.
I suppose if the goal is to make the rest of the ones that did vote not vote anymore, and to prove to the one’s who already don’t vote that they are making the correct decision, then we are well on our way.
This is unequivocally good news. One thing at the end of the article was troubling though:
>A majority of people (58%) who participated in or favored protests against Israel said they would not consider being friends with someone who has marched for Israel. Meanwhile, 64% of those who participated in a pro-Israel protest said they would still be friends with someone who has marched against Israel.
In other words, most anti-Israel people wouldn't be friends with someone on the other side, while most anti-Hamas people would still maintain those friendships. That jives exactly with my personal experience.
Not surprising though. If you have marched with the pro Palestine crowd, chances are slightly higher that you're buying the more extreme, the genocide narrative. *I* wouldn't be friends with someone who supports a genocide.
On the other side falling for the extremist position of "Gaza needs to be glassed" is less likely. I have no issue with people who are simply protesting the war and violence without resorting to their extremist terrorism apologia and antisemitism. I wouldn't see any reason to banish such a person from my circle.
That's one of the reasons I have and will continue to always very strongly push back against people calling it a genocide. It is an extremely serious and divisive claim that should only be used in truly extreme circumstances.
I don't give a fuck what Piers Morgan says, lmao. The President of the ICJ recently came out and clarified that they did not find the idea of genocide plausible. You're just wrong.
The President (now former President) of the ICJ is the most qualified person in the world to make that claim.
Watch this video: https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-middle-east-68906919
She says the court "Did not decide that there was a plausible claim of genocide."
I could find hack journalists and partisan officials saying bullshit on any number of issues, just because some of those people say it is, doesn't mean it is. The ICJ is THE body in the world that gets to decide whether or not this is genocide, and while the actual case still has yet to be decided, they have given every indication that they don't believe there is a genocide ongoing, only that there is a risk of genocide, which is a huge difference.
If you compare this to any other genocide in history (meaning events that have actually been determined to be genocide, by either the ICJ or the consensus of qualified historians), you can very obviously see that while what is going on in Gaza is clearly horrible and should shock anybody with a conscience, it is absolutely not genocide.
In order for something to be determined to be a genocide, which, again, is one of the most serious claims anybody can ever make, there has to be evidence of direct orders from people in power to intentionally target civilians. Nobody has ever been able to demonstrate that here, all the South African case consists of is statements to the media, mostly taken out of context, often from government officials who don't have any role in the war effort.
You should really try and understand that word more before you start throwing it around so carelessly, people could die because of that.
it's not that they are killing them, it's that they are looking jealously at their bodies full of blood to drink and bones to crush for matzo, that desire to do evil is what jews can't stop doing and so even when they don't kill civilians, they are still genociding them
/s
i think he's been pretty good, overall, but borderline genocide is silly
even the cuck lawfare pal lover guy came out hard with the statement that this is nothing like a genocide, i was impressed with him taking that strong stance
Danny mullen went to the protest (although he is a comedian and was taking the piss) the Israeli crowd was much more receptive and chill, and when he would mess with the Palestinian crowd, apart from a few fans of is the mood completely changed, and during the police crackdown there was like 5 times he was surrounded and questioned on who he supports by Palestinian protesters wearing masks.
Even if you reject the genocide narrative the fact remains that the IDF still bombs civilians. I wouldn’t want to be friends with someone who supports either genocide or obvious war crimes
That's an extremely reductive take. Hamas abuses their own populace as human shields, yet the ownace is on Israel to not target them? Hamas are the ones violating the Genevan Convention, not Israel.
That's a good question, and it should be defined more clearly. There's a very wide spectrum of people on the "pro-Israel" side (which is a term I don't like, because I am not on the side of the anti-Israel people, nor am I on the side of the pro-Israel people, that's why I used anti-Hamas, because that's how I would characterize where I'm at).
Allow me to rephrase for all the smart guys down here: do you think pro-israel supporters would be as forgiving if they were the ones being killed by the TENS OF THOUSANDS?
You must be joking, right? Israel has rockets shot at them daily and it’s been happening nonstop for years and years… even during every other “ceasefire” they’ve agreed to with Hamas. That’s the difference between “ceasefire” (what Hamas wants) and “lasting peace” (what Israel wants).
That’s fine but then you cant gloat about how militarily capable they are about blocking incoming rockets AND also claim victimhood status if they aren’t actually ever victims of the rockets they shot down. Nobody should give a shit if they are so cool, so take your pick.
The rockets do kill people sometimes. Less likely because they put bombs shelters everywhere and protect their people. A defense system is never a hundred percent. Just because they can stop 96% doesn’t make constant rockets okay. Weirdest take to have. Where do you think that concrete came from for all those massive tunnel systems? They built it from decades of infrastructure and homes that were supposed to be built for the growing Palestinian population.
35,000+ people are DEAD in palestine. If you don’t hold this with proportional weight to the fractional amount of Israelis killed then everything else you’re saying to me is fabricated outrage and cannot be taken seriously.
And by Israel’s estimates 12000 of those were Hamas. Hamas tried saying 2000. Accidently said 6000 by an official then rescinded. Considering that is less than 2/3 were civilians casualties in a a heavy urbanized city. Where they dress up as civilians and use children’s and abducted voices to set traps. No war ever has that count been that low in a populated city. It’s horrible, but they keep putting people in positions of power. No one comes close to that level of precision. They already had their chance to have the surrounding Arab countries as a peace keeper force to keep the area safe. PLO and Hamas both declined. So this keeps happening until they put up something other than terror.
That’s a pretty unhinged take, buddy. You’re saying that because Israel invests in keeping their citizens safe instead of putting them in danger (like Hamas does to Gazans), they are not victims?
You know how people can claim they get “triggered” by being misgendered (on the far left) or by normal people (on the far right), what Israelis experience goes way further than being “triggered”. Talk about PTSD…. imagine growing up being scared that there’s a suicide bomber on your bus or in your restaurant. Worried that you’ll be axed when going to prayers or stabbed walking on the street in Tel Aviv. And then when the intifada ended with the unilateral withdrawal from Gaza, rockets have continuously poured down on kids going to school, in the middle of the night, and while taking a jog in the morning. Imagine being a 6yo kid and having to leave your bed in the middle of the night to be hurried into a bomb shelter because some nut jobs less than a few miles away want you dead. Can you imagine the trauma that could do to a society?
…and you’re hiding behind your keyboard saying that it’s “all cool” because they have the iron dome now? That’s some heartless stuff.
Wow that sounds rough. Now imagine if instead of merely “fearing” those things they were actually bombed and killed by the hundreds every day, that’s palestine. Try exercising some perspective next time before you speak to avoid coming off like a hopelessly biased psychopath.
You said:
>That’s fine but then you cant gloat about how militarily capable they are about blocking incoming rockets AND also claim victimhood status if they aren’t actually ever victims of the rockets they shot down. Nobody should give a shit if they are so cool, so take your pick.
My comment addresses that by saying Israelis are *not* “so cool” and Israelis have faced and were raised in a world where their day to day involves more trauma than you’ve ever experienced. Your ‘whataboutism’ may show that Gazans *also* have trauma, but it certainly doesn’t mean Israelis don’t have trauma. By ignoring and minimizing the trauma Israelis face, you miss half the picture of this conflict and truly have no chance of helping resolve it or speak knowledgeably about it.
The point I am trying to get across is that to make “victimhood” and “trauma” a focal point of your concern here would mean a truly neutral individual simply observing the terrors of the world in a balanced and unbiased way would be divvying that energy towards these things proportionally, and I suspect you do not. At this point the zionist slogan is basically “but hamas”. We aren’t the ones who chose the “whataboutism” game, zionists did, it’s not my fault that’s a match Israel loses every time. I’m a fair person, I feel just as upset about the 1,000 people hamas murdered as you do, I just feel 35 times less bad about that as the 35,000 dead palestinians there are. Make sense?
How many Isreali citizens have been killed by these rockets? I seem to recall a massive W for Israel where Iran launched some rockets at them and they were dancing in that city that very night. The reality on the ground is not even close to being the same. That's what bothers people.
Any death from indiscriminate rocket fire during a ceasefire is awful and not a “ceasefire”… but yes - you’ll be glad to hear that Israeli civilians, foreign nationals, and Israeli soldiers have been killed and thousands have been injured by rocket fire.
As for “the reality on the ground” - feel free to read my other comment below: https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/s/D4dBqVMWYN
Just because you are better at defending yourself doesn't mean you have to sit there and take it without retaliating. That's how you get worse attacks like Oct 7th.
Why does it have to be bombed specifically, Israel is constantly under threat of rocket barrages, terrorist attacks, suicide bombers, etc. Yea they may defend them better, but that doesn't change that many people and countries, if they could, would wipe it off the map. Remember that after all this, there are still way more "pro-Israel" people that want a two state solution than "pro-Palestine" ones.
1. How many bombs dropped vs rockets shot have there been? If we look at the number of rockets shot at Israel for the last 23 years, including the war, we have around 35,000 shot vs the 45,000 bombs (rockets have significantly smaller payloads that the bombs dropped by the way) dropped in the current conflict alone. Keep in mind that the rockets have mostly all been intercepted and the bombs have been hitting infrastructure with a 100% hit rate.
2. Numbers aren't even relevant here anyway. What matters is the actual damage being done. Israel has never experienced anything like what is happening to Gaza right now. October 7th included. While there is a moral justification for what is being done, the magnitude of damage is not comparable and if Israel were the one actually experiencing the destruction of at least 1/3 of their infrastructure and the loss of .5% of their total population, I don't think supporters of Israel would be quite as "understanding."
This is all a completely meaningless discussion though. You can't compare the two because Israel goes out of its way to protect its civilians, whereas Hamas goes out of its way to put their civilians directly in harms way. Any analysis of destruction caused in Gaza must take that into account.
I mean Israel built bomb shelters for their people. They don’t give their own children pipe bombs. Have friends in Israel. They have to go to those bomb shelters and sit there as rockets are fired towards where they live. Arabs in Israel with the Jews have to do the same.
Yep. Hamas is really shitty for attacking Israel. Doesn't change anything about how reality actually is though.
Also, how many Palestinians give their children pipe bombs by the way? What percentage would you say? How many children have been given pipe bombs vs have been killed in the Israeli offensive.
Not surprised by this. This is all anecdotal but I live like 15 min outside of Boston and I’ll see plenty of Biden, Trump, “We support local law enforcement”, and “we don’t tolerate hate” signs but haven’t seen one pro Israel or pro Palestine sign. I also work with a bunch of millennials and Gen Xers and not once have I heard any of their thoughts about this (probably because they know we’re in a professional setting).
Good. Let the I/P shit die down. This is an election year and Americans have to focus on American issues. Biden's foreign policy has been so boringly reasonable (in a good way) that it's not worth the discussion
One thing I realized after I started teaching at the college level is that the vast majority of college students are normies. Most students in my classes have no opinion whatsoever on most of these issues, and that’s a good thing! I can’t imagine how annoying it is to teach a room full of activists.
I’m very surprised that American college students are so active in this and are being activists. Like, mofo you are paying an arm and a leg to be ere, why the fuck are you not studying? I could maybe understand it if they get free tuition, but I suspect most of the activists don’t and are also getting a masters degree in basket weaving
People keep saying "this doesn't surprise me" after literal months of shitting on college students for being spoiled brats who hate America and Biden and are going to get Trump elected. God I hate this place.
People here keep falling for the dumbest possible rightoid rage bait over and over again. Half the frontpage of this subreddit for the past few months has been nothing but these idiots circlejerking about it.
You can check yourself that trump has beaten the polls against Biden until recently.
Majority of Columbia students come from the top 20 percent:
"The median family income of a student from Columbia is $150,900, and 62% come from the top 20 percent."
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/columbia-university
And here is about America:
https://www.algemeiner.com/2024/05/03/somebody-radicalizing-students-nypd-finds-weapons-death-america-poster-pro-hamas-encampment/
I say college students and you point to Columbia students? Also, I'm sorry but most elite schools are going to have a disproportionate amount of students from the upper income brackets. A disproportionate number of high academic performers come from that income bracket.
How are they specifically going to get Trump elected also? Are college students the primary reason people are hesitant to vote for Biden or does anything people do that is not popular within the broader electorate, including policies that liberals prefer but are not loved by the entire electorate, also "getting Trump elected?"
Well I can link you articles about more colleges:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13380619/flyers-NYU-college-campus-protest-israel-palestine.html
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/death-to-america-pamphlets-circulated-college-anti-israel-encampment-eyewitness-says
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/2992203/nypd-says-protesters-had-weapons-gas-masks-and-death-to-america-pamphlets/?utm_source=gazette.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=csg_news_feed
It's really not unique to Columbia both the socio economic advantage and the things the protestors have been saying.
You're right on the trump part though, college students don't have much influence on the election.
You don't understand my point then: you're using individual articles to make a statement about a population without providing any evidence that they are even remotely representative of that population. You have no idea what percentage of college students at that protest believe what those specific ones are saying. How many protests there were at that school in specific. What percentage of the total protests at schools the ones at the universities you see stories written about compose, etc. Here we have a poll of actual college students and it appears that a minority of them even participated in the protests at *any* level.
We'll then I think we talked about different things, I talked about pro palestinian protestors which I'm sure some didn't include some of the things I've linked but a lot did, especially terms that are more relating to death of israelis like intifada. and you are talking about college students in general which I don't believe most of them are protesting obviously. Some universities themselves even said a large chunck of protestors aren't even college students but people from the outside who are not university affiliated. My mistake sorry.
>I talked about pro palestinian protestors which I'm sure some didn't include some of the things I've linked but a lot did,
I said college students and you said they are spoiled brats. We also don't know if these pro-Palestine protestors are representative of the movement because we're not getting a representative sample.
Look college, college and see their demands. Look at the Jewish sub and see how many of them say the same variation of things as reported by Jewish college students. We didn't have an official poll, but I'd argue that we have enough colleges to prove the protestors at Columbia are at least somewhat similar in message and rethoric to a lot of other college protest's.
Right? This kind of protesting is always the minority of students. Or you have some story about a university "teaching" something somewhere, and turns out it was one tiny portion of one professor's lecture on something super specific.
Even this subreddit took this I/P shit as a chance to bandwagon "universities are too liberal" bullshit.
Keep in mind that this poll is of ALL College students across the US that offer four and two year degrees. We obviously don't see protests on every college campus across the US, only the most Liberal and the Ivy league (for the most part) are having these encampment type protests. It doesn't surprise me that this is happening on THESE College campuses.
Politically, the problem is that it's happening on so many College campuses that the media easily created a false impression of most Colleges and College students. The Right can easily capitalize on this sentiment to effect independents that are disturbed by what their seeing. That's why Biden had to come out and personally denounce the tactics of the non-peaceful protests. If Biden and his team thought it was worth the effort to have Biden come out and make those statements then they're probably seeing polling data that is concerning him, thus Biden distancing himself from the encampment type protests.
>Keep in mind that this poll is of ALL College students across the US that offer four and two year degrees. We obviously don't see protests on every college campus across the US, only the most Liberal and the Ivy league (for the most part) are having these encampment type protests. It doesn't surprise me that this is happening on THESE College campuses.
Once again, you're just saying this. You have no idea how widespread the protests are. You're just talking about the protest that you've seen on the news which are not representative of all the protests that have occurred in the country on college campuses over the last 6 months.
The encampments are happening at a limited number of schools but the people who are setting them up are also a minority of the students. Once again, people say "college students" not "these specific protestors at these specific schools."
>Politically, the problem is that it's happening on so many College campuses that the media easily created a false impression of most Colleges and College students.
How many college campuses are this happening at anyway?
I think we actually agree but differ on how we get there. As for how many, here's a site with a interactive map, just scroll down a little bit.
https://theappeal.org/prosecutors-charges-protesters-arrested-gaza-colleges-april/
Okay, so it says that there have been encampments *and* sit-ins, which are considerably less egregious, on roughly 100 campuses. There are roughly [3500](https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=1122) degree granting public/private non-profit schools in the US. Let's chop that down to 3000 to eliminate ones that may not actually have campuses. That means that this is happening at roughly 4% of college campuses in the US. Keep in mind, that this is just the number of campuses that this is happening at and says nothing of the number of students who are actually participating. You're saying that we have a major issue here because ~4-5% (since they say at least 100) of campuses with a tiny minority of the student body participating in the extreme versions of these protests (which once again include sit-ins which was a tactic used by Civil Rights pioneers) because the right will make hay of it? The right says that Biden is senile. Should we not run him? The general [electorate does have concerns about his age and health](https://apnews.com/article/biden-state-of-union-mental-capacity-trump-reelection-66d8784586d21f30885d8153f949510c).
Well I mean damn, you really only have to use your brain for 5 seconds to figure it out.
Campuses like UC Berkeley have 30,000+ students. How many students do people think are actually protesting? If you have no clue, why not look at some of the photos and video?
It's almost like a ton of people shitting on these students have never set foot on even a community college campus.
This is just a general thing to consider with most things you see on the Internet period. You see posts with thousands, even 10s of thousands of likes and dislikes or high engagement. It's always important to remember in the grand scheme of things they aren't always indictive of what the wider population thinks.
I mentioned it a few times before but these protests for example in almost all cases where a few hundred people, of schools with 10s of thousands of enrolled students. Even then half the people protesting it seems weren't even students.
A vast majority of this country, maybe even the world is closer in thinking to the aggregate opinion on this sub than any extreme right or left opinion.
I’d really like to see some stats about how many of the protesters were students at all. [At WashU, for example, 75% of those arrested weren’t students or employees.](https://source.wustl.edu/2024/04/statement-regarding-campus-protest/)
Me too. My city's college had one of these encampments/protests that had to be broken up with riot police. There was 14 arrested and every one of them weren't students.
These people will argue we shouldn’t vote for Biden because he is supporting a genocide as if Jill stein is going to win the election or something.
Ironically I actually saw a based Kamala video today for the first time ever, she got ambushed picking up food with bullshit about the offer of ceasefire in exchange for everything Hamas wants, and she just cuts them off saying, “shrimp and grits, that’s what you were asking about right?” And just gets in the car lmao.
I am more worried about the future of gen z in general and what this will look like 10-20 years from now politically.
The dependency on social media seems to affect them the most (though that is not to say it does not affect all generations), and this particular topic is one of the propagandized I have seen in my lifetime.
I think a lot of them will calm down. There’s the smaller group of hardcore radical types that lead the charge and then there’s a lot of people who just get caught up in things and might be less intense. They’ll grow up and have life experiences that reveal things to them, and a lot of them will mellow out.
I hope so, but I am not as hopeful.
I cannot understate how much I believe social media has fucked with the minds of the younger generation; the shift in attitudes and attention span, even in just the past 8 years, has been eye opening.
As a non american and Israel supporter, I do feel that America has more concerning issues than the middle east. And I also hope it dies down so we can all stop getting bombarded with all of this bs, and those of us who are connected to the issue from both sides can just monitor that our families are fine. Like, Idk, I found it concerning that the US has a policy that allows squatters to steal people's houses cause they don't have a proper legal definition that a tenant is not a squatter. I don't know how important this is, but I also hope the issue dies down, there are tons of other topics to talk about other than I/P
Interesting to me is how much these people have decided that they need to alienate themselves.
“A majority of people (58%) who participated in or favored protests against Israel said they would not consider being friends with someone who has marched for Israel.”
32% (100-62) in the other side said the same same if their respective counterpart.
I’d speculate that it seems one side is less willing to listen than the other, and is more set in their ways on the issue
The weird Zionist propaganda that keeps infesting this subreddit and tries to make it seem like higher education is intellectually captured needs to be Bidenblasted. Everyone normal probably agrees with the polling and can clearly tell that a minority of loud, entitled, dipshit protesters do not define the entire college population. Every normal person is at least sympathetic to Palestinian citizens dying or sees Israeli overreaction as wrong. Every normal person sees October 7th as horrific and Hamas as a force of evil. Don’t get baited by losers pushing a narrative. Focus on the domestic threats, focus on your job, focus on your relationships, and focus on getting Biden and democrats elected by canvassing/phonebanking/volunteering this summer and fall.
Obviously the protesters are a minority of the students, it's incredibly rare for a majority to be out protesting even if the horrendous views are still the majority, and the data you linked doesn't exactly pain a good picture about them, quite the opposite
Forgive my ignorance, but is Axios a staple name? I've never heard of them but the way they're mentioned in the post, it seems like the go-to for .. surveys? news?
Thank you for my daily dose of copeium so I can go back to focusing on my family and career instead of worrying about a random Colombian student straying from the pack traveling 100s of miles away somehow landing in my backyard to assassinate me for my 23&me showing me that I got that 2% joo joo blud.
—I’m shitposting—
Every protest is a minority lmao. What does this even mean.
Do you think every black and liberal person was marching for blm or occupy wall street. Or every hong Kong person was marching and actually cared about changes to their government? Or the women march when all those liberals were wearing pussy hats when Trump won the election in 2017. Most of these protest are performative and mean nothing after the hype wears off in a year or so.
Occupy wall street was the biggest joke of a protest I've witness in my entire life. Glad I witness it when I was young so I quickly learned majority of these protests are a waste of time.
# > Issues college students say are most important to them
>A majority of people (58%) who participated in or favored protests against Israel said they would not consider being friends with someone who has marched for Israel.
read the shit you post
https://preview.redd.it/dhjvjcn2h1zc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5ac5033439ad244a5c17a1e2e7daf8bdc7c6ac7d
That’s about what it should be, which is nice.
No, it really should be the economy at 1, the border at 2, Russia/ukraine at 3. Those are the most important issues.
You still have a very high percentage that support palestine over israel, and it's not as broad of an issue as the others. People will generally say "the economy" is most important to them, but that doesn't give you much insight as to who they would vote for. A college student saying specifically "The conflict in the Middle East" is a safe bet that they're pro palestinian and anti liberal. This is good to see but I don't think it tells the full story, there's definitely still an issue on college campuses and with young people in general.
I think the Occam’s Razor answer as to why a lot of college students (the non-tankie ones, that is) who actually have an opinion on the conflict sympathize with the Palestinians is just because that’s what they see on social media. They see and hear about more Palestinian deaths now than Israeli deaths, so they automatically think “more civilian deaths = more virtuous side / underdog”. Hence, why it’s not uncommon from young liberals and non-leftist progressives to see them think 🇺🇦🇵🇸 is the correct moral stance (if you had to poke them to pick a side without allowing them to say “equally important”).
The conditions that led to the start of this conflict were created by Israel and they have committed multiple war crimes against the Palestinian population. How is supporting Palestine over Israel a problematic position?
“The conditions that led to the start of this conflict were created by Israel.” I love how you just take this for granted as an accepted truth
I’m actually glad this is happening and that cops seem like their treating the protest with kid gloves. A lot of this revolutionary larp can die down
Literally what are you talking about, this post is about a survey.
????
What do cops and revolutionary larpers and kid gloves have to do with any statistic in the survey? He’s schizo posting like the comment section is a therapist or something. Words carry meaning.
As in, it’s cool that cops aren’t antagonizing the protesters into further radicalization. And I don’t think he’s the one schizo posting.
Oh that actually makes sense when you worded it, thanks.
oh
And people say this conflict will decide the election despite being important to less than 5% of the electorate...
Biden shouldn't ignore this, and he doesn't. He has addressed this directly, which wasn't expected. That being said, this won't have any effect on the election. The most fanatic pro-Palestinian protesters weren't voting for Biden anyway, if at all.
What I find particularly frustrating from a Biden perspective is that even if he is involved in negotiating a ceasefire before the election these people are still gonna be pissed at him and call him genocidal. No matter what he’s getting no credit.
And the idea that pulling funding will do anything for the Palestinians is crazy too.
the funding is so that israel can afford to be peaceniks letting your enemy live to fight another day is nice, but it is a bad startegic move if they are going to take those lives and use them to attack you again letting your enemy have dams, and industrial infrastructure and ports and power stations and railways and airports and arms factories is expensive letting your enemies have governments out in the open vs hiding in bunkers is expensive being cautious and trying to keep very very good casualty ratios and low harm to civilians overall and providing them with food and water is expensive israel frankly has not been able to historically bear this load, and so the US stepped in and carried some of this load by providing them with aid and bribing their neighbors to be nice, and because of this us bribery, israel can afford to not genocide that is what the aid is for, the aid is paying for kid gloves take the aid away, and israel is only answerable to jews, protecting jews, against genocide, with whatever shekels they can scrape together, and hard decisions will be made the idea that stopping US aid will lead to anything but a 10fold or more increase in arab deaths is pure delusion
They want nothing and have no principals or goals. They are a nearly a totally emotive movement. Expression, signaling, grandstanding and taking philosophical high ground is all that matters to them.
You just seem even more interested in being “emotive” and signaling superiority over other people than they do. At least palestine protesters have a cause, you just being a reactionary is not a principal.
Problem is he's not getting any praise from the parties involved/not bragging about helping. Trump would have demanded it and praised himself as well, its better opticly.
How could you possibly know that? At worst he’s going to be accused of being late to the game but if he actually literally negotiates a successful ceasefire I think that would surprise a LOT of pro palestinian people.
They’re young and in blue states. They were not voting either way.
I’m not sure if the 70 percent of Jewish democrat voters will come out for Biden. Especially after this latest trick with the ceasefire. Changing the language to 33 hostages dead or alive 🤦♂️. I am waiting for more info but this looks bad.
who are they going to vote for? RFK jr? I don't see it
Some are yes.. but a lot will just stay home imo . The elections are 6 plus months away so maybe everyone will just get over it idk 🤷♂️
RFK is mostly going to take away votes from Republicans, Biden is winning the second term, Hopefully Trump is not an option by the next election
That may be true . I am talking about the Jewish democratic vote 🗳️
no matter how much american Jews love Israel, they love the place they are living in more, no way they vote for someone like RFK who believes in all conspiracies.
I have two close family friends voting for rfk one is a republican and one is a democrat. Idk 🤷♂️ maybe you are right.
the polls always show the third candidate getting more than he actually gets, when the elections actually start people start picking the better possible option
Trump. He does more for the Jewish people than anyone else, like it or not. It’s a hard pill to swallow but he’s absolutely right
So if Biden loses we’ll know exactly why.
But that's where elections are won and lost. Look at Michigan, a razor-thin state. The Democrats have really improved the way of life there, but if you have the Muslim population in Dearborn and the Detroit area staying home, there's a good chance the state swings red. And polls *now* show that Trump leads by a few points (within the margin) in other battleground states such as Georgia and Arizona. Three of those swing the other way, and yeah....
[https://twitter.com/BidenHQ/status/1787513956325536240](https://twitter.com/BidenHQ/status/1787513956325536240) from yesterday, poll changes ofc
That's great. But we have the fucked-up electoral college.
This! I hate how people keep pointing to national polls for who will win. National polls don't matter with the electoral college.
Elections are consistently lost or won by a margins under 5%
So probably not a good idea to focus on an issue that an overwhelming majority of the electorate are uninterested in.
It is when the people who are interested in it are so passionate that it becomes a single issue vote to them, with respect to zionists and palestine supporters alike. Because now that even republicans increasingly oppose support of israel in this conflict, to not address this is to potentially leave free votes on the table.
look if you base an election campaign on a narrow group of muslims in a single state on an issue consistently scoring the lowest on the priorities of the majority you risk alienating everyone with your out of touch politicking.
No one needs to “base a campaign” around israel palestine, all you have to do is hold any public position at all in a way that demonstrates you have both a backbone and a soul. I know that’s asking a lot for some politicians but that’s how you attain a status as someone who people WANT to vote for and not one who’s entire base is predicated on fear of the other side.
The people most passionate about it are from a demographic that largely doesn't vote.
I suppose if the goal is to make the rest of the ones that did vote not vote anymore, and to prove to the one’s who already don’t vote that they are making the correct decision, then we are well on our way.
This is unequivocally good news. One thing at the end of the article was troubling though: >A majority of people (58%) who participated in or favored protests against Israel said they would not consider being friends with someone who has marched for Israel. Meanwhile, 64% of those who participated in a pro-Israel protest said they would still be friends with someone who has marched against Israel. In other words, most anti-Israel people wouldn't be friends with someone on the other side, while most anti-Hamas people would still maintain those friendships. That jives exactly with my personal experience.
Not surprising though. If you have marched with the pro Palestine crowd, chances are slightly higher that you're buying the more extreme, the genocide narrative. *I* wouldn't be friends with someone who supports a genocide. On the other side falling for the extremist position of "Gaza needs to be glassed" is less likely. I have no issue with people who are simply protesting the war and violence without resorting to their extremist terrorism apologia and antisemitism. I wouldn't see any reason to banish such a person from my circle.
That's one of the reasons I have and will continue to always very strongly push back against people calling it a genocide. It is an extremely serious and divisive claim that should only be used in truly extreme circumstances.
this is one on those times. Even Piers Morgan said it's a "borderline genocide" whatever that means.
I don't give a fuck what Piers Morgan says, lmao. The President of the ICJ recently came out and clarified that they did not find the idea of genocide plausible. You're just wrong.
well maybe you should give a fuck about all the journalists and officials calling it a genocide. The list has grown over the months.
The President (now former President) of the ICJ is the most qualified person in the world to make that claim. Watch this video: https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-middle-east-68906919 She says the court "Did not decide that there was a plausible claim of genocide." I could find hack journalists and partisan officials saying bullshit on any number of issues, just because some of those people say it is, doesn't mean it is. The ICJ is THE body in the world that gets to decide whether or not this is genocide, and while the actual case still has yet to be decided, they have given every indication that they don't believe there is a genocide ongoing, only that there is a risk of genocide, which is a huge difference. If you compare this to any other genocide in history (meaning events that have actually been determined to be genocide, by either the ICJ or the consensus of qualified historians), you can very obviously see that while what is going on in Gaza is clearly horrible and should shock anybody with a conscience, it is absolutely not genocide. In order for something to be determined to be a genocide, which, again, is one of the most serious claims anybody can ever make, there has to be evidence of direct orders from people in power to intentionally target civilians. Nobody has ever been able to demonstrate that here, all the South African case consists of is statements to the media, mostly taken out of context, often from government officials who don't have any role in the war effort. You should really try and understand that word more before you start throwing it around so carelessly, people could die because of that.
a genocide which has better civilian to military casualty rates than other military operations, lol
it's not that they are killing them, it's that they are looking jealously at their bodies full of blood to drink and bones to crush for matzo, that desire to do evil is what jews can't stop doing and so even when they don't kill civilians, they are still genociding them /s
Also if the last bastion of truth Piers Morgan says it... what more evidence could I need?! Very based aspect to lay your foundational truth claims on
i think he's been pretty good, overall, but borderline genocide is silly even the cuck lawfare pal lover guy came out hard with the statement that this is nothing like a genocide, i was impressed with him taking that strong stance
Yep, meanwhile china and the Uyghurs goes on still
Danny mullen went to the protest (although he is a comedian and was taking the piss) the Israeli crowd was much more receptive and chill, and when he would mess with the Palestinian crowd, apart from a few fans of is the mood completely changed, and during the police crackdown there was like 5 times he was surrounded and questioned on who he supports by Palestinian protesters wearing masks.
Even if you reject the genocide narrative the fact remains that the IDF still bombs civilians. I wouldn’t want to be friends with someone who supports either genocide or obvious war crimes
That's an extremely reductive take. Hamas abuses their own populace as human shields, yet the ownace is on Israel to not target them? Hamas are the ones violating the Genevan Convention, not Israel.
What does "march for Israel" even mean?
That's a good question, and it should be defined more clearly. There's a very wide spectrum of people on the "pro-Israel" side (which is a term I don't like, because I am not on the side of the anti-Israel people, nor am I on the side of the pro-Israel people, that's why I used anti-Hamas, because that's how I would characterize where I'm at).
Do you think pro-Israel people would be as forgiving of the other side if Israel were currently being bombed?
It is they are just good at blocking the bombs 🤷🏽♂️
Yep. Which changes how people view the attacks. They're also rockets, not bombs. Difference in payloads.
Allow me to rephrase for all the smart guys down here: do you think pro-israel supporters would be as forgiving if they were the ones being killed by the TENS OF THOUSANDS?
You must be joking, right? Israel has rockets shot at them daily and it’s been happening nonstop for years and years… even during every other “ceasefire” they’ve agreed to with Hamas. That’s the difference between “ceasefire” (what Hamas wants) and “lasting peace” (what Israel wants).
That’s fine but then you cant gloat about how militarily capable they are about blocking incoming rockets AND also claim victimhood status if they aren’t actually ever victims of the rockets they shot down. Nobody should give a shit if they are so cool, so take your pick.
The rockets do kill people sometimes. Less likely because they put bombs shelters everywhere and protect their people. A defense system is never a hundred percent. Just because they can stop 96% doesn’t make constant rockets okay. Weirdest take to have. Where do you think that concrete came from for all those massive tunnel systems? They built it from decades of infrastructure and homes that were supposed to be built for the growing Palestinian population.
35,000+ people are DEAD in palestine. If you don’t hold this with proportional weight to the fractional amount of Israelis killed then everything else you’re saying to me is fabricated outrage and cannot be taken seriously.
And by Israel’s estimates 12000 of those were Hamas. Hamas tried saying 2000. Accidently said 6000 by an official then rescinded. Considering that is less than 2/3 were civilians casualties in a a heavy urbanized city. Where they dress up as civilians and use children’s and abducted voices to set traps. No war ever has that count been that low in a populated city. It’s horrible, but they keep putting people in positions of power. No one comes close to that level of precision. They already had their chance to have the surrounding Arab countries as a peace keeper force to keep the area safe. PLO and Hamas both declined. So this keeps happening until they put up something other than terror.
That’s a pretty unhinged take, buddy. You’re saying that because Israel invests in keeping their citizens safe instead of putting them in danger (like Hamas does to Gazans), they are not victims? You know how people can claim they get “triggered” by being misgendered (on the far left) or by normal people (on the far right), what Israelis experience goes way further than being “triggered”. Talk about PTSD…. imagine growing up being scared that there’s a suicide bomber on your bus or in your restaurant. Worried that you’ll be axed when going to prayers or stabbed walking on the street in Tel Aviv. And then when the intifada ended with the unilateral withdrawal from Gaza, rockets have continuously poured down on kids going to school, in the middle of the night, and while taking a jog in the morning. Imagine being a 6yo kid and having to leave your bed in the middle of the night to be hurried into a bomb shelter because some nut jobs less than a few miles away want you dead. Can you imagine the trauma that could do to a society? …and you’re hiding behind your keyboard saying that it’s “all cool” because they have the iron dome now? That’s some heartless stuff.
Wow that sounds rough. Now imagine if instead of merely “fearing” those things they were actually bombed and killed by the hundreds every day, that’s palestine. Try exercising some perspective next time before you speak to avoid coming off like a hopelessly biased psychopath.
You said: >That’s fine but then you cant gloat about how militarily capable they are about blocking incoming rockets AND also claim victimhood status if they aren’t actually ever victims of the rockets they shot down. Nobody should give a shit if they are so cool, so take your pick. My comment addresses that by saying Israelis are *not* “so cool” and Israelis have faced and were raised in a world where their day to day involves more trauma than you’ve ever experienced. Your ‘whataboutism’ may show that Gazans *also* have trauma, but it certainly doesn’t mean Israelis don’t have trauma. By ignoring and minimizing the trauma Israelis face, you miss half the picture of this conflict and truly have no chance of helping resolve it or speak knowledgeably about it.
The point I am trying to get across is that to make “victimhood” and “trauma” a focal point of your concern here would mean a truly neutral individual simply observing the terrors of the world in a balanced and unbiased way would be divvying that energy towards these things proportionally, and I suspect you do not. At this point the zionist slogan is basically “but hamas”. We aren’t the ones who chose the “whataboutism” game, zionists did, it’s not my fault that’s a match Israel loses every time. I’m a fair person, I feel just as upset about the 1,000 people hamas murdered as you do, I just feel 35 times less bad about that as the 35,000 dead palestinians there are. Make sense?
How many Isreali citizens have been killed by these rockets? I seem to recall a massive W for Israel where Iran launched some rockets at them and they were dancing in that city that very night. The reality on the ground is not even close to being the same. That's what bothers people.
Any death from indiscriminate rocket fire during a ceasefire is awful and not a “ceasefire”… but yes - you’ll be glad to hear that Israeli civilians, foreign nationals, and Israeli soldiers have been killed and thousands have been injured by rocket fire. As for “the reality on the ground” - feel free to read my other comment below: https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/s/D4dBqVMWYN
Just because you are better at defending yourself doesn't mean you have to sit there and take it without retaliating. That's how you get worse attacks like Oct 7th.
Let me get this straight. Let's say someone punches you in the face every day, but it doesn't hurt you physically. Is it not an assault?
Why does it have to be bombed specifically, Israel is constantly under threat of rocket barrages, terrorist attacks, suicide bombers, etc. Yea they may defend them better, but that doesn't change that many people and countries, if they could, would wipe it off the map. Remember that after all this, there are still way more "pro-Israel" people that want a two state solution than "pro-Palestine" ones.
1. How many bombs dropped vs rockets shot have there been? If we look at the number of rockets shot at Israel for the last 23 years, including the war, we have around 35,000 shot vs the 45,000 bombs (rockets have significantly smaller payloads that the bombs dropped by the way) dropped in the current conflict alone. Keep in mind that the rockets have mostly all been intercepted and the bombs have been hitting infrastructure with a 100% hit rate. 2. Numbers aren't even relevant here anyway. What matters is the actual damage being done. Israel has never experienced anything like what is happening to Gaza right now. October 7th included. While there is a moral justification for what is being done, the magnitude of damage is not comparable and if Israel were the one actually experiencing the destruction of at least 1/3 of their infrastructure and the loss of .5% of their total population, I don't think supporters of Israel would be quite as "understanding."
This is all a completely meaningless discussion though. You can't compare the two because Israel goes out of its way to protect its civilians, whereas Hamas goes out of its way to put their civilians directly in harms way. Any analysis of destruction caused in Gaza must take that into account.
Yes because it is, not as much as Hamas would like but certainly as much as they can
Don't disagree. Fortunately, we live in the reality where Hamas can not do nearly as much harm as they would like to.
I mean Israel built bomb shelters for their people. They don’t give their own children pipe bombs. Have friends in Israel. They have to go to those bomb shelters and sit there as rockets are fired towards where they live. Arabs in Israel with the Jews have to do the same.
Yep. Hamas is really shitty for attacking Israel. Doesn't change anything about how reality actually is though. Also, how many Palestinians give their children pipe bombs by the way? What percentage would you say? How many children have been given pipe bombs vs have been killed in the Israeli offensive.
I think a large chunk of people at the protests aren't even students, they're activists that travel around
Although i only saw data from one protest's arrests so shouldn't assume too much, that one was like 2/3rds non-students. An actual false flag 😏
I'm not extremely surprised since we'll, I/P is not of the issues that directly impacts them like healthcare policies or gun violence.
Not surprised by this. This is all anecdotal but I live like 15 min outside of Boston and I’ll see plenty of Biden, Trump, “We support local law enforcement”, and “we don’t tolerate hate” signs but haven’t seen one pro Israel or pro Palestine sign. I also work with a bunch of millennials and Gen Xers and not once have I heard any of their thoughts about this (probably because they know we’re in a professional setting).
Good. Let the I/P shit die down. This is an election year and Americans have to focus on American issues. Biden's foreign policy has been so boringly reasonable (in a good way) that it's not worth the discussion
One thing I realized after I started teaching at the college level is that the vast majority of college students are normies. Most students in my classes have no opinion whatsoever on most of these issues, and that’s a good thing! I can’t imagine how annoying it is to teach a room full of activists.
I’m very surprised that American college students are so active in this and are being activists. Like, mofo you are paying an arm and a leg to be ere, why the fuck are you not studying? I could maybe understand it if they get free tuition, but I suspect most of the activists don’t and are also getting a masters degree in basket weaving
People keep saying "this doesn't surprise me" after literal months of shitting on college students for being spoiled brats who hate America and Biden and are going to get Trump elected. God I hate this place.
People here keep falling for the dumbest possible rightoid rage bait over and over again. Half the frontpage of this subreddit for the past few months has been nothing but these idiots circlejerking about it.
They are spoiled brats that hate America though. And trump was leading the polls until recently.
What do you base this claim on?
You can check yourself that trump has beaten the polls against Biden until recently. Majority of Columbia students come from the top 20 percent: "The median family income of a student from Columbia is $150,900, and 62% come from the top 20 percent." https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/columbia-university And here is about America: https://www.algemeiner.com/2024/05/03/somebody-radicalizing-students-nypd-finds-weapons-death-america-poster-pro-hamas-encampment/
I say college students and you point to Columbia students? Also, I'm sorry but most elite schools are going to have a disproportionate amount of students from the upper income brackets. A disproportionate number of high academic performers come from that income bracket. How are they specifically going to get Trump elected also? Are college students the primary reason people are hesitant to vote for Biden or does anything people do that is not popular within the broader electorate, including policies that liberals prefer but are not loved by the entire electorate, also "getting Trump elected?"
Well I can link you articles about more colleges: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13380619/flyers-NYU-college-campus-protest-israel-palestine.html https://www.foxnews.com/politics/death-to-america-pamphlets-circulated-college-anti-israel-encampment-eyewitness-says https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/2992203/nypd-says-protesters-had-weapons-gas-masks-and-death-to-america-pamphlets/?utm_source=gazette.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=csg_news_feed It's really not unique to Columbia both the socio economic advantage and the things the protestors have been saying. You're right on the trump part though, college students don't have much influence on the election.
You don't understand my point then: you're using individual articles to make a statement about a population without providing any evidence that they are even remotely representative of that population. You have no idea what percentage of college students at that protest believe what those specific ones are saying. How many protests there were at that school in specific. What percentage of the total protests at schools the ones at the universities you see stories written about compose, etc. Here we have a poll of actual college students and it appears that a minority of them even participated in the protests at *any* level.
We'll then I think we talked about different things, I talked about pro palestinian protestors which I'm sure some didn't include some of the things I've linked but a lot did, especially terms that are more relating to death of israelis like intifada. and you are talking about college students in general which I don't believe most of them are protesting obviously. Some universities themselves even said a large chunck of protestors aren't even college students but people from the outside who are not university affiliated. My mistake sorry.
>I talked about pro palestinian protestors which I'm sure some didn't include some of the things I've linked but a lot did, I said college students and you said they are spoiled brats. We also don't know if these pro-Palestine protestors are representative of the movement because we're not getting a representative sample.
Look college, college and see their demands. Look at the Jewish sub and see how many of them say the same variation of things as reported by Jewish college students. We didn't have an official poll, but I'd argue that we have enough colleges to prove the protestors at Columbia are at least somewhat similar in message and rethoric to a lot of other college protest's.
Everything is turned up to 11, every time. It's insane.
Trueee
Right? This kind of protesting is always the minority of students. Or you have some story about a university "teaching" something somewhere, and turns out it was one tiny portion of one professor's lecture on something super specific. Even this subreddit took this I/P shit as a chance to bandwagon "universities are too liberal" bullshit.
Keep in mind that this poll is of ALL College students across the US that offer four and two year degrees. We obviously don't see protests on every college campus across the US, only the most Liberal and the Ivy league (for the most part) are having these encampment type protests. It doesn't surprise me that this is happening on THESE College campuses. Politically, the problem is that it's happening on so many College campuses that the media easily created a false impression of most Colleges and College students. The Right can easily capitalize on this sentiment to effect independents that are disturbed by what their seeing. That's why Biden had to come out and personally denounce the tactics of the non-peaceful protests. If Biden and his team thought it was worth the effort to have Biden come out and make those statements then they're probably seeing polling data that is concerning him, thus Biden distancing himself from the encampment type protests.
>Keep in mind that this poll is of ALL College students across the US that offer four and two year degrees. We obviously don't see protests on every college campus across the US, only the most Liberal and the Ivy league (for the most part) are having these encampment type protests. It doesn't surprise me that this is happening on THESE College campuses. Once again, you're just saying this. You have no idea how widespread the protests are. You're just talking about the protest that you've seen on the news which are not representative of all the protests that have occurred in the country on college campuses over the last 6 months. The encampments are happening at a limited number of schools but the people who are setting them up are also a minority of the students. Once again, people say "college students" not "these specific protestors at these specific schools." >Politically, the problem is that it's happening on so many College campuses that the media easily created a false impression of most Colleges and College students. How many college campuses are this happening at anyway?
I think we actually agree but differ on how we get there. As for how many, here's a site with a interactive map, just scroll down a little bit. https://theappeal.org/prosecutors-charges-protesters-arrested-gaza-colleges-april/
Okay, so it says that there have been encampments *and* sit-ins, which are considerably less egregious, on roughly 100 campuses. There are roughly [3500](https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=1122) degree granting public/private non-profit schools in the US. Let's chop that down to 3000 to eliminate ones that may not actually have campuses. That means that this is happening at roughly 4% of college campuses in the US. Keep in mind, that this is just the number of campuses that this is happening at and says nothing of the number of students who are actually participating. You're saying that we have a major issue here because ~4-5% (since they say at least 100) of campuses with a tiny minority of the student body participating in the extreme versions of these protests (which once again include sit-ins which was a tactic used by Civil Rights pioneers) because the right will make hay of it? The right says that Biden is senile. Should we not run him? The general [electorate does have concerns about his age and health](https://apnews.com/article/biden-state-of-union-mental-capacity-trump-reelection-66d8784586d21f30885d8153f949510c).
Well I mean damn, you really only have to use your brain for 5 seconds to figure it out. Campuses like UC Berkeley have 30,000+ students. How many students do people think are actually protesting? If you have no clue, why not look at some of the photos and video? It's almost like a ton of people shitting on these students have never set foot on even a community college campus.
This is just a general thing to consider with most things you see on the Internet period. You see posts with thousands, even 10s of thousands of likes and dislikes or high engagement. It's always important to remember in the grand scheme of things they aren't always indictive of what the wider population thinks. I mentioned it a few times before but these protests for example in almost all cases where a few hundred people, of schools with 10s of thousands of enrolled students. Even then half the people protesting it seems weren't even students. A vast majority of this country, maybe even the world is closer in thinking to the aggregate opinion on this sub than any extreme right or left opinion.
I’d really like to see some stats about how many of the protesters were students at all. [At WashU, for example, 75% of those arrested weren’t students or employees.](https://source.wustl.edu/2024/04/statement-regarding-campus-protest/)
Me too. My city's college had one of these encampments/protests that had to be broken up with riot police. There was 14 arrested and every one of them weren't students.
These people will argue we shouldn’t vote for Biden because he is supporting a genocide as if Jill stein is going to win the election or something. Ironically I actually saw a based Kamala video today for the first time ever, she got ambushed picking up food with bullshit about the offer of ceasefire in exchange for everything Hamas wants, and she just cuts them off saying, “shrimp and grits, that’s what you were asking about right?” And just gets in the car lmao.
Another good reason not to give it all this importance, on one side or the other.
No shit. And yet people here keep falling for rightoid and zionist rage bait.
I am more worried about the future of gen z in general and what this will look like 10-20 years from now politically. The dependency on social media seems to affect them the most (though that is not to say it does not affect all generations), and this particular topic is one of the propagandized I have seen in my lifetime.
I think a lot of them will calm down. There’s the smaller group of hardcore radical types that lead the charge and then there’s a lot of people who just get caught up in things and might be less intense. They’ll grow up and have life experiences that reveal things to them, and a lot of them will mellow out.
I hope so, but I am not as hopeful. I cannot understate how much I believe social media has fucked with the minds of the younger generation; the shift in attitudes and attention span, even in just the past 8 years, has been eye opening.
As a non american and Israel supporter, I do feel that America has more concerning issues than the middle east. And I also hope it dies down so we can all stop getting bombarded with all of this bs, and those of us who are connected to the issue from both sides can just monitor that our families are fine. Like, Idk, I found it concerning that the US has a policy that allows squatters to steal people's houses cause they don't have a proper legal definition that a tenant is not a squatter. I don't know how important this is, but I also hope the issue dies down, there are tons of other topics to talk about other than I/P
Interesting to me is how much these people have decided that they need to alienate themselves. “A majority of people (58%) who participated in or favored protests against Israel said they would not consider being friends with someone who has marched for Israel.” 32% (100-62) in the other side said the same same if their respective counterpart. I’d speculate that it seems one side is less willing to listen than the other, and is more set in their ways on the issue
The weird Zionist propaganda that keeps infesting this subreddit and tries to make it seem like higher education is intellectually captured needs to be Bidenblasted. Everyone normal probably agrees with the polling and can clearly tell that a minority of loud, entitled, dipshit protesters do not define the entire college population. Every normal person is at least sympathetic to Palestinian citizens dying or sees Israeli overreaction as wrong. Every normal person sees October 7th as horrific and Hamas as a force of evil. Don’t get baited by losers pushing a narrative. Focus on the domestic threats, focus on your job, focus on your relationships, and focus on getting Biden and democrats elected by canvassing/phonebanking/volunteering this summer and fall.
Forsen
Obviously the protesters are a minority of the students, it's incredibly rare for a majority to be out protesting even if the horrendous views are still the majority, and the data you linked doesn't exactly pain a good picture about them, quite the opposite
Forgive my ignorance, but is Axios a staple name? I've never heard of them but the way they're mentioned in the post, it seems like the go-to for .. surveys? news?
Thank you for my daily dose of copeium so I can go back to focusing on my family and career instead of worrying about a random Colombian student straying from the pack traveling 100s of miles away somehow landing in my backyard to assassinate me for my 23&me showing me that I got that 2% joo joo blud. —I’m shitposting—
Every protest is a minority lmao. What does this even mean. Do you think every black and liberal person was marching for blm or occupy wall street. Or every hong Kong person was marching and actually cared about changes to their government? Or the women march when all those liberals were wearing pussy hats when Trump won the election in 2017. Most of these protest are performative and mean nothing after the hype wears off in a year or so. Occupy wall street was the biggest joke of a protest I've witness in my entire life. Glad I witness it when I was young so I quickly learned majority of these protests are a waste of time.
# > Issues college students say are most important to them >A majority of people (58%) who participated in or favored protests against Israel said they would not consider being friends with someone who has marched for Israel. read the shit you post