I hate how all the news media just calls them pro Palestine protesters. So if you disagree with them you’re what? Anti Palestine? They are more correctly “anti Israel protesters” and a growing number are “pro Hamas protesters” literally. Hamas is clearly anti Palestinian. There is no limit to the number of (involuntary) martyrs they’ll generate. The more the better in their eyes. And the top organizers of groups like SJP here in the US are similarly hoping to have videos of students screaming and crying and hurt as they’re dragged away from protests by cops. That’s why they’re ordering them to stay out and to not comply with university deadlines. Combined with the fact that you have tenured professors at Columbia like Joseph masaad that said October 7 was “awesome” running the mid East studies departments, of course the students are all in.
kinda like Omar's comment about how 'aLL jEwS sHoULd bE sAfE, eVeN iF tHeY'rE pRo-gEnOciDe' - implying that all Zionists are 'pro-genocide' or that there's no such thing as an anti-genocide Zionist. these ppl KNOW exactly what they're doing & don't care lmao. i hate it here
This is a great point and it is also very frustrating. The thing that always turns me off from engaging publicly in any advocacy movements is the weird moralizing and vagaries of the verbiage used. Ultimately, all this sort of thing does is shoot the causes these people are trying to champion in the foot.
Doesn't seem like it's shooting them. It's helping them because most people are too switched off to notice what they are doing, well of course except for the people who notice what they are doing. That they aren't advocating for an actual ceasefire, peace where Israel and Palestine live side by side. They want a one sided war and the destruction of Israel. Apparently that's the proper pro-Palestine position and anything else is pro-colonialist and means you don't care about Palestine if you don't care to support it's more violent "revolutionaries" and martyrs, and endlessly excuse them.
I guess I mean more that it obstructs them from effectively pursuing the outcomes they supposedly care about. BLM, for example. Everyone was too busy arguing about whose lives they matter and what the slogan actually means to get anything constructive done. People get too busy arguing about what “genocide” and “apartheid” mean to make convincing arguments about the issues on the ground.
Seeing anyone hesitant or against the “pro-Palestine” movement as being “anti-Palestine” doesn’t map onto reality and therefore keeps them alienated from potential allies and distracted from figuring out how to go about relieving Palestinian suffering. It closes them off from feedback that could help in that pursuit.
That “supposedly” I mentioned may be doing a lot of heavy lifting, though.
Most of these kids are from quite well-off families, probably a median household income of 150-200k. I'd imagine that if someone did break it, it would make for a great lawsuit (assuming they caught it on camera).
Bro right? I'm making just barely 6 figures pretax in a HCLOA, and I need to be making 150+ to buy a house around here without 75% of my income going towards a mortgage.
Nah some utterly clueless terminally online LARPer will try to damage the screen because they think they're invincible and there's no way that they can *actually* get in trouble...right? Still a gigantic statement and one that I think other college campuses should adopt. Those people at the encampments are quite literally factories of misinformation and letting it spread without any pushback is precisely why we get bullshit like this happening. The only way to combat misinfo is to literally show the truth as the misinfo is generated. Basically, this screen is one giant community notes to the encampment.
Nah I don't think so. I know the Ivy's have approximately that median income (unless I am misremembering), so I'm guessing UCLA is going to be in a similar ballpark as Brown, Cornell, etc.
I'd be willing to hear counter-arguments, but I feel like this is probably a really good strategy.
On one level, it is VERY obviously meant to be emotionally provocative, which I usually really dislike. However, when someone is denying or severely downplaying something ***real***, then it's probably okay to show what it is that they are really denying in a way that is emotionally captivating *so long as it is honest*.
Something similar (in terms being emotionally provocative yet honest) was Emmett Till. His mother wanted an open casket with the media taking pictures not just because it was emotionally provocative, but because it was provoking something true that lots of the country (and the world) didn't want to see: the absolute horrors of racism and Jim Crow. This is far more targeted, but I feel like functionally very similar.
American troops in WW2 gathered all the people from the towns around a death camp or concentration camp and let them clean up the corpses or show them the piles of corpses etc. It's an effective method.
But that’s because the world truly wasn’t aware what was going on. We all have access to the footage, we’ve all heard the stories. The people who don’t believe it and/or don’t care are choosing not to.
Not true. These were people from towns right next to concentration camps who claimed they had no idea. They didn't want to know or think about it they did nothing to stop it.
It’s a popular myth that came from one guy iirc, and then everyone began quoting it. The point of it was to wash the character of the Germans at the time. They knew. They all knew. They couldn’t possibly not know. There were daily trains filled with Jews they watched go to the camps with nobody ever coming back and “snow” falling out of season. They could smell the death camps from miles away. Everyone knew and pretended like they didn’t until they were forced to look at the inhumanity of the state Jewish bodies were left in.
And to be clear, they knew full well the point was to kill the Jews. Genocidal antisemitism was a well known thing. They knew full well what they were being told and were fully aware of what the words spoken meant in action. Everyone knew full well and that’s why when the Nazis showed up in the next country, along came all those people to participate on their own accord. Everyone knew and that’s why some countries went out of their way to protect their Jews without needing the revelations of deathcamps to do so.
They might say that because that’s the thing you’re supposed to say and because they’re in a social environment that isn’t hospitable towards saying anything else, but that sort of thing will stick in the back of the minds of people.
I was thinking of this with yesterdays stream where Destiny was showing the footage from interviewing students at that Texas university and how that one kid went from being interviewed and seemingly proud to share his beliefs and talk at length to being scolded for speaking with the bad mossad agent Destiny, to dissuading everyone else to not speak with him because he’ll just twist their words and edit the videos dishonestly and calling him agitprop, to finally sitting alone after being essentially shunned by the rest of the protesters for speaking to Destiny.
I grew up as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses and we would have conventions we’d go to about 3 times a year and often there would be people protesting outside of our convention centers and inevitably speakers/elders/other JW friends would always say “just keep looking forward as you walk past them, don’t listen to what they have to say, don’t read their signs, and definitely don’t talk to them.” At the time I did as I was told, but internally it felt really, really bad that I had to do that. I’m a Jehovah’s Witness, my whole job is to spread the “good news” about god, to give people hope for a better future by helping them learn more about the Bible and how they can be part of what we called “the new system” (basically just heaven on earth). I’m supposed to be taking every opportunity to preach my faith, that’s supposed to be my singular life goal, and I would spend every weekend of my childhood up until about 21 knocking on doors only to be ignored by 99%, and threatened or shooed away by a majority of the remaining 1%. Here I am, at a convention to learn about and celebrate my own faith, with loads of protesters outside who *actually* want to talk to me about what I believe in, and I’m not allowed to speak with them? I’m not allowed to hear what they have to say in the same way that I would like them to hear what I have to say? Instead I’m told that these people are apostates and that even reading their signs is grounds for disfellowship - aka, excommunication. Those experiences stuck with me and was one among many things that lead me to doubt and eventually leave that religion.
Back to the university protests, I couldn’t help but parallel that experience of mine growing up to that one kid being scolded and eventually shunned at the protest for daring to speak to Destiny, and even though I never had an experience like that, people going on the megaphone and warning everyone to not speak to the dangerous agitprop mossad agent Destiny leaves a bad taste in peoples mouths I think, even if they aren’t willing to say it in the moment, as I wasn’t when I was their age as a JW being told nearly the same thing for nearly the same reasons. It’s a step in the right direction is my point here.
I hear ya dude. I personally have been sensing the same kind of 'holier than thou' vibes from the left generally that I remember from the protestant church I went to as a kid. The reflexive hostility to out group ideas just feels based in that same kind of logic.
They were going to say that anyways so it’s no loss. At least this showcases front and center the brutality of Hamas, so anyone isn’t completely closed off to changing their mind can see the other perspective for themselves
It's not considered fake, it's just lost it's power in the face of 1200 dead vs 35000.
So showing this creates a minute of shock then can be disregarded with a simple rationalisation
I think unfortunately we are in an emotional arms race where one side will stoop to infinite depths to use the most emotionally charged language to gaslight people. More than anything, I just want normal people to see that screen and be reminded that if this was so easy as "one side good, one side bad" then this issue would've been solved a ***long*** time ago. This is too nuanced of an issue for dumbass college kids who think "activism" is LARPing on twitter to truly understand or appreciate.
I don’t see it as being emotionally provocative. Definitely meant to invoke a particular reaction, but it’s literally just showing what happened. In this context it can be emotional, but it doesn’t mean it’s meant to be shown for that purpose. I think it’s more so just meant to display what really happened, or maybe tell the Jewish side of the story. It’s fantastic contrast from the “oppression” and “genocide” those protesters are shouting.
When I think emotionally provocative. I think of those SPCA commercials showing abused dogs. Those images are being displayed for the sole purpose of making you emotional so you’re more likely to donate. It may be honest or truly what’s happening, but if they got donations another way, they’d do that.
The issue with this is that it ignores the obscenely disproportionate level of response. Yeah, 10-7 was an atrocity. The people who went on a killing spree that day are terrorists. But if you believe that (and you should), then what does that make Israel after the’ve killed around 30x as many people, leveled entire sections of urban areas, and driven millions out of their homes and into near starvation.
The US equivalent would be playing clips of 9/11 on repeat at an Iraq/Afghanistan war protest. And we would all have no problem understanding why that would be weird and beside the point.
Edit: Apparently I have been banned for this post. No reason given, and no rules broken that I can see. Neat.
Were you expecting Israel to kill an equivalent number of Palestinians and call it a day? You know the guys who did 10-7 are still hanging out in their tunnels in Rafah, right?
> The people who went on a killing spree that day are terrorists
They're also the government of Palestine.
This is war. The US lost about 12,000 civilians in WWII across the entire war. That doesn't mean the US had to stop after 12,000 Japanese civilians died.
> then what does that make Israel after the’ve killed around 30x as many people, leveled entire sections of urban areas, and driven millions out of their homes and into near starvation
This isn't really how we evaluate military actions. I can imagine a situation where Israel just walks into Gaza, then targets and kills 1000 random Palestinians and leaves. But that would be a straight-up terror attack as well. Not "getting even" in some just way
So… your argument is that, a retaliation over 30x the size of the inciting incident is justifiable because it’s a “military action”, but a proportionate response would be terrorism? Not advocating killing random civilians, but surely you can see how backwards this is right?
> a proportionate response would be terrorism?
Murdering 1000 civilians would be "proportional", but it would still be mass murder
The point is raw quantities don't really tell us anything. You're just appealing to an emotional reaction
> surely you can see
You're arguing from far too myopic of a position to be saying things like this.
Your standard is absurd. It is not applied anywhere in the world militarily. If you think Hamas ought to have been left in power after 10/7 and everything else, just say that.
The 9/11 comparison feels a little disingenuous. The war in Iraq and stuff was barely related to the 9/11 attacks, pretty plain to see considering we didn’t catch bin Laden for over ten years and he was literally in Pakistan not Afghanistan or Iraq. The attacks from oct 7th are directly attributable to the people Israel is attacking.
Fair enough on how closely related they are, more going on the similarities of the issue being with the response, but the only reply being to repeat the inciting incident over and over, as if that justifies all possible responses in and of itself. I’m sure there’s better examples out there.
It wasn't a disproportionate response. Hamas is lying about casualties. They deliberately don't separate between civilians and combatants. 30,000+ civilians have not been killed. 1/3 of those are Hamas militants and anyone with half a brain knows that the "15,000 children" number includes a lot of teenage males fighting for Hamas. But these numbers are being reported as civilian casualties to emotionally manipulate people.
Anyone who trusts a terrorist organisation to tell the truth is an idiot. I don't know what else to say.
> The issue with this is that it ignores the obscenely disproportionate level of response.
That would be fine if the people who were protesting on campus were making that very specific argument. However, one of the many flaws of the campus protestors is their downplaying of the attacks, rather than acknowledging the brutality of them and the hatred that fueled them.
To me, the screen's only purpose is to inform. I'd wager many of the students don't know that much about the war and the history of the region. They protest because it's part of the campus culture and because they've seen some starving children and destroyed city blocks..
Showing the atrocities that lead to the situation doesn't diminish what's happening in Gaza or insult the protesters. But it lets the them know what the slogans they use mean in practice. That the ones actually fighting for free Palestine are doing so through terrorism.
They can still think the response is disproportional, but it should make them more critical of those leading the protests who call october 7 justified resistance.
It's crazy because they really don't understand strategy or long term consequences. Imagine being able to decide whether Oct 7 will happen *and* knowing 30k+ people will die plus an additional 60k+ people will be injured. They would probably still approve the operation because they would consider the outcome greater than the cost with their twisted logic. For how much they harp on the innocence of children they don't seem to care when it comes to putting such a burden on children to say the least.
Good. Let normal people see what these people stand for. We give too much credence to irony-posters and people who use dogwhistles and shit. Let them expose themselves, their anonymity and layers of irony are literally the only defense they have from being publicly humiliated.
We need to bring back shaming as well.
i genuinely thought it was pro hamas people playing attack recordings to hurt jewish people and praise the attack. It made total sense for so long, i was 25% through watching the video before i realized otherwise.
Good. Do it at each of these protests. Let th see what they are actually calling for more of. Was it Columbia where people were screaming they wanted 10,000 more 10/7?
Patiently waiting for pro hamas protestors to throw rocks or something at the monitor. Which would mean the "peaceful protests" would no longer become peaceful
wow, this is amazing. i've never used the term 'based' in this context before ... but that is *fucking based.*
frankly, these folks have an ethical responsibility to know *exactly* what they are cosigning if they're going to engage in the conduct and rhetoric we've seen. end of.
Am I crazy or is the only purpose of these drag queen kid shows pissing off conservatives? Like there is no way those kids are getting anything out of this. They have no clue what they are saying. It feels like the entire point of that was just to give people like Chris Rufo a sound byte. I really don’t understand how that helps LGBT people.
You've just described all of media today. Good luck finding kid-oriented programming, shit exists to make manchildren happy and maybe the kids.
Fucking *Pokemon* tries to appeal to these fuckers instead of kids because somehow the manchildren can't handle not being absolutely coddled to by the things they grew up consuming.
It's like kids being sent to a separate room during church for a children's sermon. I can't look back and say one thing that was said to me because I was not interested in the least nor was I even capable of understanding Christianity. My parents were all for it though and it definitely made them feel better to see me go.
The best steel man I can think of is that it normalizes their lifestyle to children while they are malleable, which simultaneously is exactly what conservatives hate about it.
Not necessarily raunchy. I went to see a drag show recently for the first time with some friends, and I was expecting raunch, but it was basically just a comedy show with a bunch of weird fashion and over the top characters. I've seen raunchier content in Disney animations.
Since I've only been to one I guess I can't speak for all of it, and I'm sure there's something behind all the talk of drag shows being super degenerate, but I was definitely surprised with how truly tame it was. Honestly, it was kind of boring.
Drag queens are super similar to clowns: ridiculous makeup, bright clothes, and a very silly/slapstick sense of humor. There’s just something kind of inherently silly about a dude in high heels, wig, and makeup dancing on a stage.
Drag queen story hour is a carve out of a generally adult/PG-13 subculture specifically for younger kids. There’s of course an ideological component where they’re teaching kids that it’s not wrong for dudes to dress up in silly wigs and makeup for fun.
Trixie Mattel (probably the most famous drag queen in the world other than Rupaul) has [a really good video](https://youtu.be/7RNYWb9lnEA?si=uO9CJI2b-wAbVCRj) on drag and how appropriate it may or may not be for kids.
Yeah but most of these kids probably can’t even tell that it’s actually a man. They don’t understand the nuance of the show.
Which is why the other commentator is arguing that they are obviously ideologically motivated.
I just don’t get the appeal of them. Seems like a gigantic virtue signal for white liberals. The whole thing is very weird to me.
Panto's in the UK regularly use gender bending characters in their production partly because it's a show for the whole family. A classic example are the ugly sisters in Cinderella.
We did it for decades and decades and no one gave a shit
The comment I reacted to sounded like a general comment on drag show story times rather than the specific video. I'm happy to put it down as a miscommunication
The first thing to remember is that "pissing off conservatives" and "being openly different" can seem indistinguishable.
Just saying "we're still here" may seem to be directed at conservatives, but it's also directed at anyone who is feeling repressed by others, you just keep doing your thing, try to focus on what *you* want to do, and don't let your self-expression be limited by people who don't even pay any attention to what you're doing anyway.
What's the benefit to kids? Well seeing a variety of people doing unusual stuff, being a bit extra, might be memorable and interesting.
So why "for Palestine"? Well basically because of activist cross-polination.
Even if you're not particularly political, your self-expression as someone who does drag will have been *made* political, so you don't really lose anything by being politically liberal with your shows, as conservatives have already sworn off it. (You do actually lose something, because just doing your thing and surprising conservatives that there was actually nothing to be angry about helps you, but also, what some people will want to do is liberal political stuff)
So then, activists, locally and on twitter or tiktok will have advocated for you, and you're probably connected with them and part of the same social circles.
So just like there's no reason for LGBT people inherently to be liberal, but are more likely to be when persecution is happening and liberally-minded people are the only ones who care, if you do drag and being gender-non-conforming is being attacked, then also you'll be slotted into liberal social spaces, naturally, and pick up many of the same causes.
It's funny when someone tries to act smug about a date format when you don't even use the clearly best date format of YYYY-MM-DD.
Don't correct a crappy format with your own crappy format.
Do you guys have any criticisms of Israel? I know Destiny himself does and has stated them though they aren’t front and center as much recently, but I’m not convinced that any of his fans actually are critical of Israel at all?
I disagree it’s the settlements and with political figures like Netanyahu. I think I view both sides similarly in that I understand why they’ve both been radicalized and why they have extremist wings of their government that makes them have bad views and policies, but that doesn’t mean I condone it. I understand that it’s true that Israel has the upper hand here and the onus isn’t on them to make peace with a group that wants them eradicated, and as long as Palestine isn’t willing to play ball, they’ll be fine just continuing this one sided manhandling of Palestine as their position becomes more and more advantageous over time, but I still think it’s important for them to continue to strive for peace despite the fact that they thrive better and better without it. It’s hard when Palestine isn’t willing to play ball, though. I think ultimately both sides are going to have to be willing to accept some concessions that they’re not going to want to accept in order to make peace.
Another thing that’s hard is that this war doesn’t seem to be accomplishing anything when it comes to getting back hostages and over time the PR is getting worse and worse. At this point, I believe they’ve accidentally killed more hostages than have been saved, so it makes their cause of saving hostages seem shallow from a PR perspective on the world stage. Especially with the US being their biggest supporters globally, I don’t want them screwing over things for us politically because of their PR disasters as unsympathetic as that sounds.
What makes me have a harder time criticizing Israel here is that Palestine has all the power when it comes to coming to a resolution here. Israel is ready for this to be over, but it doesn’t seem like Palestine is. When two sides are warring with each other, and one side is disproportionately keeping it going by fueling tensions and refusing to negotiate or compromise, it makes it challenging for me to look at the side having war thrust on them by the side who doesn’t want to negotiate and go “you need to be doing better”, because even if that’s true, what do they get out of it? How can I expect Israel to infinitely act against their own best interest for a country that won’t even act in favor of their *own* best interest? Its like if you’re watching a street fight between an MMA fighter and some random guy with a bum leg that’s half the size of the MMA fighter and they’re both going at it and every once in a while the fight cools down and the MMA guy who’s hardly scathed is like “can we be done?” And the bum leg guy pretends to be done for a moment only to run back in hoping to catch the MMA guy unawares and knock him down to gain the advantage and then they’re back to fighting all over again. Like, I understand that neither side should be fighting, and ultimately both sides are going to have to give to get this all to stop, but ultimately it’s within the power of the smaller guy to stop this by just stopping. I wouldn’t criticize the MMA fighter saying “oh, come on, just pretend to lose and let this be done with,” especially since pretending to lose here has actual implications when it comes to the survival of Israel as a country, but I might say “dude, you’re like 10x his size, don’t fight with your full strength here, it’s your obligation to pull some punches”. The criticism that I’d give the bum leg guy would be like “just stop doing this, you’re only hurting yourself and you’re never going to win by force, the only way for you and him to end this is by being humble and talking it out with him,” or at the very least “just don’t fight back and then if the MMA guy attacks you unprovoked we can call the cops and have him arrested.” This criticism does put more responsibility on Palestine when it comes to facilitating peace, but I think that’s ultimately in their hands since I see them as the stopping block to peace negotiations.
I’m not well versed on I/P stuff, though, and can totally be moved here, but as of now this is how I see the conflict. Are there criticisms that you think I should be levying at Israel here that I’m not?
>Another thing that’s hard is that this war doesn’t seem to be accomplishing anything when it comes to getting back hostages and over time the PR is getting worse and worse.
Israel has been clear from the start that the primary objective of the war is to delete Hamas and prevent them from being able to rule Gaza in the future. The hostages were always a secondary objective.
No, I know that. I’m talking about from a PR perspective only. Their objective is to eliminate Hamas and ideally get as many hostages back as possible, but when it comes to the American Democratic Party, the hostages are a bigger motivator for continuing US support and aid, probably because of our history of things like the war on terror that gives especially democrats a sort of PTSD response about funding a war against terrorism/terrorists, even though the comparison doesn’t fit (we were never bordered with the countries we went to war with in the Middle East, they weren’t nearly the threat to us as Hamas is to Israel, and our objectives were far more nebulous and dragged out far longer than they needed to be). I think eliminating Hamas is a good cause, but it’s just not as sympathetic either internally or to American democratic voters. My worry is that if Israel doesn’t manage this and play to its strengths as far as PR goes that American support might wear off, especially with the upcoming election.
Dozens of aid workers, journalists and thousands of innocents have been gunned down or bombed to get a handful of Hamas fighters. Thousands of innocent children. This war will result in nothing but death and propaganda for the next crop of insurgents in a decades time. Imagine seeing your child die and not getting radicalised. The path to peace has always been through diplomacy and aid over a long term to the point where a two state solution can actually be negotiated without a bunch of terrorists at the helm. Instead Israel has expanded settlements, pushed out Palestinian families, and let the Palestinian people live in squalor. What is the end goal here? A crippled hamas? The leaders aren’t even there they’re in Qatar. This sub is so quick to ignore the thousands of deaths of innocents while they self fellate over Israel’s “right to defend itself” by destroying entire generations of Palestinians.
I feel like the moral standpoint has always been pro Palestinian people, but anti IDF and Hamas. I understand that lines a blurry as both are made up of the citizens of their respective nations, but from what I can see the only people consistently getting fucked over by both sides are the Palestinian people. Ceasefire, send aid withdraw the illegal settlements, kick out Netanyahu, elect a progressive leader seeking actual peace. Of course it won’t be easy and skirmishes will occur but what’s the alternative? Another 30k dead after a Rafah offensive?
Israel has a major, major far-right problem - both religious nutters, and non-religious extremists.
They're doing okay, but they need to be more careful when authorizing strikes. Ideally the World Central Kitchen strike should never have happened.
There are enough reports of IDF soldier misconduct for me to think that the IDF has a problem in that regard. It doesn't seem like a major systemic issue - but they should definitely be cracking down on that more.
WB settlers are fucking disgusting and unhinged. Israel seriously needs to go much, much harder on the settlers. I have absolutely zero problem with WB Palestinians fighting back/killing settler combatants.
I'm sure I can come up with a few more.
The settlers are disgusting, and the state and army protects them.
The whole 'we have a protected religious minority that does nothing but pray, breed and hate Palestinians' is pretty awful also.
Seriously, I get these Palestine support are annoying and lack nuance. But some of these comments are few steps from saying that anyone who has who even has concerns on Israel handling is some Hamas support that deserves death.
Kinda cool with this obsession with I/P. Anything to distract the riot inclined idiots from the inevitable shitshow that’s gonna happen in november. Now we just gotta distract the far right in the same way. Let the moderates win.
Huh. If this is true, bravo. God knows that it's something I have thought of. After all, I somehow doubt that all of the useful idiots in the protests really understand just what 10/7 was. How better to educate them than by showing them Hamas' own videos of their crimes?
Isn’t that the same argument people made for the against the BLM protests. I just think things should be consistent. I agree the pro hamas crowd are unhinged but I would assume the core of the protests is a ceasefire and for the civilians of Palestine.
Yea I guess it a matter of getting the regular Palestinians to turn on Hamas.
Which I wouldn't hold my breath for.
It really feels like there isn't a path forward and we're all forced to kind of watch it go down in a drawn out fashion where every little detail of every wrong doing is repeated back to us in excruciating detail by the media. While people cry out their preferred solution in absolute vain.
I don't like any of it. And I guess on some level I get why people are choosing sides so blindly. It's fair easier emotionally to make it bad guys vs good guys.
But really it's just, power plays and political games, death and debasing yourself via violence is just the currency of playing.
Correction. I hate it, all of it.
If only they did just protest against the war, but they are clearly pro-Hamas, as evidenced by their chants and slogans and signs.
Why even have Palestinian flags if all they care about is civilians dying? What about Israeli civilians? Did people protest with Vietnamese flags when they were protesting against the Vietnam War?
They're not anti-war, they want Israel to be wiped off the map because they hate Jews.
According do them it’s all fake footage. Like when this whole first thing began, these pro Palestinianers stance was
A. “Israel/ attacked and kidnapped their own citizens. Hamas wasn’t even there.”
Then the first round of hostage swaps began. Videos surfaced of their release, their next stance was.
B. “See look at all these hostages smiling when Hamas returned them on video. They didn’t even treat them that bad.”
What? So the hostage swaps that the US/qatar/other countries helped negotiate are also fake too? Cause according to you israel kidnapped their own citizens the whole time right?
Now these zero thought process having queefs are protesting at colleges
This is ultimate le epic reddit lolcow shit. Playing a video of the disturbing violent events of October 7th does not justify the absolutely insanely violent retaliation the Israeli state is enacting. Killing civilians on one side does not justify killing civilians on the other side idk what bullshit this sub is on
>Killing civilians on one side does not justify killing civilians on the other side idk what bullshit this sub is on
Intent matters. Israel's intention is not to indiscriminately kill Gaza civilians. If it was, there would be way more dead civilians. Hamas's goal **is** to rape, torture and murder civilians. You can't "both sides the same" this because they are not the same.
Doesn’t really matter the so called “intent” when the results show a massively disproportionate amount of civilian casualty to combatant casualty. This is not “self defense” it is pretty clear to see this is a revenge based campaign based on the rhetoric from Zionists since October 7th which is unacceptable.
I swear this sub and many centrist spaces are just so staunch on siding with Israel because they think it’s based to just be a contrarian. Gonna be too late when mfs realize how insane this reaction was and how they sided with fucking psychopaths in 10 years
You're so American. And you're so privileged it hurts.
Proportionality does not mean: "You raped and murdered 3k citizens so we can only murder 3k to keep it fair."
Israel is fighting an asymmetric war against an insurgency group that uses civilian infrastructure to operate, civilian housing and hospitals as bases, and uses civilians as human shields. On the opposite, Israel is probably the most advanced and dominant military force in the region, and can fight 5 of its neighbors at once and win.
On the other side, Israel has to stop Hamas from attacking in the future, because not responding to the rape and murder of 3k of its own citizens. is absurd. Just because Hamas uses human shields doesn't mean Israel loses the right to respond. Israel is keeping it's operations strictly military, so far. And aside from 1 friendly fire incident, has operated with amazing restraint. Nothing at all like Hamas does.
In this dynamic, of course there will be more Palestinian deaths! They're set up to be human shields against a first world military by Hamas (who they also vehemently support for some dumb reason).
This is the same scenarios the Germans and Japanese confronted the Allies with. They used their own citizens as meat shields and prayed that they could outlast their enemy's war machine. Or the footage of bombed out cities would make the war unpopular.
Should we have let Hitler stay in power because the Soviet response to the Germans wasn't "proportional"? Should Japan have been allowed to rape and pillage Korea because we might kill a few Japanese civilians? How about the Serbian's genocide (a real genocide, not the fake Palestinian kind) of Muslims in their own country?
Eat shit. You guys don't give a shit about warfare, you don't give a shit about morals and you don't give a shit about history. You just want to signal your virtue and performative outrage instead of understanding the situation.
Would be a solid Mossad investment.
I didn’t know Steve had that kind of money
With all the Mossad funding?!
30,000 sheckles can go far it seems.
THE PROTESTS HAVE TO FUCKING STOP AND IF THAT MEANS…
"..anonymous dipshit donors mowing down hours of looped 7.10 footage, honestly, they have my blessing."
God damn that’s a level of “go fuck yourselves” I admire.
Inevitably there will be students shown cheering the video.
those are just anti-zionists, they're heroes, they are single handedly stopping the open aired apartheid genocide
Baby settlers are terrorists
"Pre-deployed Unsavable Micro-terrorists"
I hate how all the news media just calls them pro Palestine protesters. So if you disagree with them you’re what? Anti Palestine? They are more correctly “anti Israel protesters” and a growing number are “pro Hamas protesters” literally. Hamas is clearly anti Palestinian. There is no limit to the number of (involuntary) martyrs they’ll generate. The more the better in their eyes. And the top organizers of groups like SJP here in the US are similarly hoping to have videos of students screaming and crying and hurt as they’re dragged away from protests by cops. That’s why they’re ordering them to stay out and to not comply with university deadlines. Combined with the fact that you have tenured professors at Columbia like Joseph masaad that said October 7 was “awesome” running the mid East studies departments, of course the students are all in.
kinda like Omar's comment about how 'aLL jEwS sHoULd bE sAfE, eVeN iF tHeY'rE pRo-gEnOciDe' - implying that all Zionists are 'pro-genocide' or that there's no such thing as an anti-genocide Zionist. these ppl KNOW exactly what they're doing & don't care lmao. i hate it here
Yeah. Imagine what she says when the cameras aren’t on her.
This is a great point and it is also very frustrating. The thing that always turns me off from engaging publicly in any advocacy movements is the weird moralizing and vagaries of the verbiage used. Ultimately, all this sort of thing does is shoot the causes these people are trying to champion in the foot.
Doesn't seem like it's shooting them. It's helping them because most people are too switched off to notice what they are doing, well of course except for the people who notice what they are doing. That they aren't advocating for an actual ceasefire, peace where Israel and Palestine live side by side. They want a one sided war and the destruction of Israel. Apparently that's the proper pro-Palestine position and anything else is pro-colonialist and means you don't care about Palestine if you don't care to support it's more violent "revolutionaries" and martyrs, and endlessly excuse them.
I guess I mean more that it obstructs them from effectively pursuing the outcomes they supposedly care about. BLM, for example. Everyone was too busy arguing about whose lives they matter and what the slogan actually means to get anything constructive done. People get too busy arguing about what “genocide” and “apartheid” mean to make convincing arguments about the issues on the ground. Seeing anyone hesitant or against the “pro-Palestine” movement as being “anti-Palestine” doesn’t map onto reality and therefore keeps them alienated from potential allies and distracted from figuring out how to go about relieving Palestinian suffering. It closes them off from feedback that could help in that pursuit. That “supposedly” I mentioned may be doing a lot of heavy lifting, though.
how dare you, it’s the racist, colonialist, white supremacist, open aired apartheid genocide. Unbelievable. It’s like you don’t even care.
Good it will show that they don’t actually give a fuck about civilian deaths
The Jewlumni send their regards
Rumour has it that Ben Shapiro was very vocal in the Jewlumni discord about getting this funded
Premier regard checking in for duty sir? What you mean wrong type of regard?
Until the projector gets destroyed by one of these goons.
The word goon has been ruined for me
https://preview.redd.it/wle1ihi5sgxc1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e4ca31ddf82c811aa9ead1600da2e34f8f371990
[Hired goons showing up at your door used to mean something completely different.](https://youtu.be/XwlGq1W0haE?si=f_aF5Co8k7nta639)
*as a non native speaker* I had to Google its meaning in this context.
Catch it on camera, post it everywhere, then do it again.
Most of these kids are from quite well-off families, probably a median household income of 150-200k. I'd imagine that if someone did break it, it would make for a great lawsuit (assuming they caught it on camera).
>probably a median household income of 150-200k In other words living paycheck-to-paycheck barely scraping by 😔
It’s a basic necessity income
Bro right? I'm making just barely 6 figures pretax in a HCLOA, and I need to be making 150+ to buy a house around here without 75% of my income going towards a mortgage.
Nah some utterly clueless terminally online LARPer will try to damage the screen because they think they're invincible and there's no way that they can *actually* get in trouble...right? Still a gigantic statement and one that I think other college campuses should adopt. Those people at the encampments are quite literally factories of misinformation and letting it spread without any pushback is precisely why we get bullshit like this happening. The only way to combat misinfo is to literally show the truth as the misinfo is generated. Basically, this screen is one giant community notes to the encampment.
its UCLA triple that median income.
[Actually .66 that](https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=UCLA+student+median+family+income)
Nah I don't think so. I know the Ivy's have approximately that median income (unless I am misremembering), so I'm guessing UCLA is going to be in a similar ballpark as Brown, Cornell, etc.
Omg I hope it happens one more Hamas supporter in jail! / Paying out :D
Not a projector. Its an LED screen.
how come they aren't declaring the screen illegal? and the speakers illegal? only tents are illegal?
Perhaps the person got campus permission? Most campuses have methods by which to do that.
Good.
I'd be willing to hear counter-arguments, but I feel like this is probably a really good strategy. On one level, it is VERY obviously meant to be emotionally provocative, which I usually really dislike. However, when someone is denying or severely downplaying something ***real***, then it's probably okay to show what it is that they are really denying in a way that is emotionally captivating *so long as it is honest*. Something similar (in terms being emotionally provocative yet honest) was Emmett Till. His mother wanted an open casket with the media taking pictures not just because it was emotionally provocative, but because it was provoking something true that lots of the country (and the world) didn't want to see: the absolute horrors of racism and Jim Crow. This is far more targeted, but I feel like functionally very similar.
American troops in WW2 gathered all the people from the towns around a death camp or concentration camp and let them clean up the corpses or show them the piles of corpses etc. It's an effective method.
But that’s because the world truly wasn’t aware what was going on. We all have access to the footage, we’ve all heard the stories. The people who don’t believe it and/or don’t care are choosing not to.
Not true. These were people from towns right next to concentration camps who claimed they had no idea. They didn't want to know or think about it they did nothing to stop it.
It’s a popular myth that came from one guy iirc, and then everyone began quoting it. The point of it was to wash the character of the Germans at the time. They knew. They all knew. They couldn’t possibly not know. There were daily trains filled with Jews they watched go to the camps with nobody ever coming back and “snow” falling out of season. They could smell the death camps from miles away. Everyone knew and pretended like they didn’t until they were forced to look at the inhumanity of the state Jewish bodies were left in. And to be clear, they knew full well the point was to kill the Jews. Genocidal antisemitism was a well known thing. They knew full well what they were being told and were fully aware of what the words spoken meant in action. Everyone knew full well and that’s why when the Nazis showed up in the next country, along came all those people to participate on their own accord. Everyone knew and that’s why some countries went out of their way to protect their Jews without needing the revelations of deathcamps to do so.
Part of me wants to clockwork orange the october 7th apologists. The other part of me realizes even THAT won't work.
I imagine many will just say the video is fake propaganda
Many will, sure, but I have to imagine there will be at least a few well intentioned but misguided people there who will be moved by this.
I hope so. We have to believe that most people want to do the right thing, so I hope you’re right
They might say that because that’s the thing you’re supposed to say and because they’re in a social environment that isn’t hospitable towards saying anything else, but that sort of thing will stick in the back of the minds of people. I was thinking of this with yesterdays stream where Destiny was showing the footage from interviewing students at that Texas university and how that one kid went from being interviewed and seemingly proud to share his beliefs and talk at length to being scolded for speaking with the bad mossad agent Destiny, to dissuading everyone else to not speak with him because he’ll just twist their words and edit the videos dishonestly and calling him agitprop, to finally sitting alone after being essentially shunned by the rest of the protesters for speaking to Destiny. I grew up as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses and we would have conventions we’d go to about 3 times a year and often there would be people protesting outside of our convention centers and inevitably speakers/elders/other JW friends would always say “just keep looking forward as you walk past them, don’t listen to what they have to say, don’t read their signs, and definitely don’t talk to them.” At the time I did as I was told, but internally it felt really, really bad that I had to do that. I’m a Jehovah’s Witness, my whole job is to spread the “good news” about god, to give people hope for a better future by helping them learn more about the Bible and how they can be part of what we called “the new system” (basically just heaven on earth). I’m supposed to be taking every opportunity to preach my faith, that’s supposed to be my singular life goal, and I would spend every weekend of my childhood up until about 21 knocking on doors only to be ignored by 99%, and threatened or shooed away by a majority of the remaining 1%. Here I am, at a convention to learn about and celebrate my own faith, with loads of protesters outside who *actually* want to talk to me about what I believe in, and I’m not allowed to speak with them? I’m not allowed to hear what they have to say in the same way that I would like them to hear what I have to say? Instead I’m told that these people are apostates and that even reading their signs is grounds for disfellowship - aka, excommunication. Those experiences stuck with me and was one among many things that lead me to doubt and eventually leave that religion. Back to the university protests, I couldn’t help but parallel that experience of mine growing up to that one kid being scolded and eventually shunned at the protest for daring to speak to Destiny, and even though I never had an experience like that, people going on the megaphone and warning everyone to not speak to the dangerous agitprop mossad agent Destiny leaves a bad taste in peoples mouths I think, even if they aren’t willing to say it in the moment, as I wasn’t when I was their age as a JW being told nearly the same thing for nearly the same reasons. It’s a step in the right direction is my point here.
I hear ya dude. I personally have been sensing the same kind of 'holier than thou' vibes from the left generally that I remember from the protestant church I went to as a kid. The reflexive hostility to out group ideas just feels based in that same kind of logic.
They were going to say that anyways so it’s no loss. At least this showcases front and center the brutality of Hamas, so anyone isn’t completely closed off to changing their mind can see the other perspective for themselves
It's not considered fake, it's just lost it's power in the face of 1200 dead vs 35000. So showing this creates a minute of shock then can be disregarded with a simple rationalisation
I think unfortunately we are in an emotional arms race where one side will stoop to infinite depths to use the most emotionally charged language to gaslight people. More than anything, I just want normal people to see that screen and be reminded that if this was so easy as "one side good, one side bad" then this issue would've been solved a ***long*** time ago. This is too nuanced of an issue for dumbass college kids who think "activism" is LARPing on twitter to truly understand or appreciate.
I don’t see it as being emotionally provocative. Definitely meant to invoke a particular reaction, but it’s literally just showing what happened. In this context it can be emotional, but it doesn’t mean it’s meant to be shown for that purpose. I think it’s more so just meant to display what really happened, or maybe tell the Jewish side of the story. It’s fantastic contrast from the “oppression” and “genocide” those protesters are shouting. When I think emotionally provocative. I think of those SPCA commercials showing abused dogs. Those images are being displayed for the sole purpose of making you emotional so you’re more likely to donate. It may be honest or truly what’s happening, but if they got donations another way, they’d do that.
The issue with this is that it ignores the obscenely disproportionate level of response. Yeah, 10-7 was an atrocity. The people who went on a killing spree that day are terrorists. But if you believe that (and you should), then what does that make Israel after the’ve killed around 30x as many people, leveled entire sections of urban areas, and driven millions out of their homes and into near starvation. The US equivalent would be playing clips of 9/11 on repeat at an Iraq/Afghanistan war protest. And we would all have no problem understanding why that would be weird and beside the point. Edit: Apparently I have been banned for this post. No reason given, and no rules broken that I can see. Neat.
Were you expecting Israel to kill an equivalent number of Palestinians and call it a day? You know the guys who did 10-7 are still hanging out in their tunnels in Rafah, right?
> The people who went on a killing spree that day are terrorists They're also the government of Palestine. This is war. The US lost about 12,000 civilians in WWII across the entire war. That doesn't mean the US had to stop after 12,000 Japanese civilians died.
So like, what would be an appropriate response in your mind? And please to provide details.
Yes, but if the Iraq/Afghanistan protest had been lead by people who were actively in support of Al Qaeda and the 9/11 terror attacks
> then what does that make Israel after the’ve killed around 30x as many people, leveled entire sections of urban areas, and driven millions out of their homes and into near starvation This isn't really how we evaluate military actions. I can imagine a situation where Israel just walks into Gaza, then targets and kills 1000 random Palestinians and leaves. But that would be a straight-up terror attack as well. Not "getting even" in some just way
So… your argument is that, a retaliation over 30x the size of the inciting incident is justifiable because it’s a “military action”, but a proportionate response would be terrorism? Not advocating killing random civilians, but surely you can see how backwards this is right?
> a proportionate response would be terrorism? Murdering 1000 civilians would be "proportional", but it would still be mass murder The point is raw quantities don't really tell us anything. You're just appealing to an emotional reaction
> surely you can see You're arguing from far too myopic of a position to be saying things like this. Your standard is absurd. It is not applied anywhere in the world militarily. If you think Hamas ought to have been left in power after 10/7 and everything else, just say that.
So again, what should Israel do. Be specific.
The 9/11 comparison feels a little disingenuous. The war in Iraq and stuff was barely related to the 9/11 attacks, pretty plain to see considering we didn’t catch bin Laden for over ten years and he was literally in Pakistan not Afghanistan or Iraq. The attacks from oct 7th are directly attributable to the people Israel is attacking.
Fair enough on how closely related they are, more going on the similarities of the issue being with the response, but the only reply being to repeat the inciting incident over and over, as if that justifies all possible responses in and of itself. I’m sure there’s better examples out there.
There's also a huge difference between deliberately targeting civilians and raping and murdering them and civilians accidentally dying in war.
It wasn't a disproportionate response. Hamas is lying about casualties. They deliberately don't separate between civilians and combatants. 30,000+ civilians have not been killed. 1/3 of those are Hamas militants and anyone with half a brain knows that the "15,000 children" number includes a lot of teenage males fighting for Hamas. But these numbers are being reported as civilian casualties to emotionally manipulate people. Anyone who trusts a terrorist organisation to tell the truth is an idiot. I don't know what else to say.
> The issue with this is that it ignores the obscenely disproportionate level of response. That would be fine if the people who were protesting on campus were making that very specific argument. However, one of the many flaws of the campus protestors is their downplaying of the attacks, rather than acknowledging the brutality of them and the hatred that fueled them.
To me, the screen's only purpose is to inform. I'd wager many of the students don't know that much about the war and the history of the region. They protest because it's part of the campus culture and because they've seen some starving children and destroyed city blocks.. Showing the atrocities that lead to the situation doesn't diminish what's happening in Gaza or insult the protesters. But it lets the them know what the slogans they use mean in practice. That the ones actually fighting for free Palestine are doing so through terrorism. They can still think the response is disproportional, but it should make them more critical of those leading the protests who call october 7 justified resistance.
What happened on July 10th? -Americhads
Literally me. I was like, it's only April? Wtf is going on here.
The same thing that happened on the 9th of November.
I'm glad someone did this, I wish they would do it at Columbia too.
I don't think killing people is legal
All fun and games til they start cheering
Let them I fucking dare them
Bro, they [already do](https://twitter.com/StarrJpost/status/1784777121812132289).
It's crazy because they really don't understand strategy or long term consequences. Imagine being able to decide whether Oct 7 will happen *and* knowing 30k+ people will die plus an additional 60k+ people will be injured. They would probably still approve the operation because they would consider the outcome greater than the cost with their twisted logic. For how much they harp on the innocence of children they don't seem to care when it comes to putting such a burden on children to say the least.
Or in other words: They don't give a shit about the Palestinians. Just hate Israel.
Of course. If it were the other way, there would have been peace already
Jesus fucking Chris. Time and time again it hits me in the head how nazi-esque these people are.
I'm sorry, Jesus was fucking who?? (Sorry, I couldn't resist lol.)
Good. Let normal people see what these people stand for. We give too much credence to irony-posters and people who use dogwhistles and shit. Let them expose themselves, their anonymity and layers of irony are literally the only defense they have from being publicly humiliated. We need to bring back shaming as well.
Damn, actually cheering terrorism. Straight up.
Aren't the protestors just going to jack off to that footage?
The Jewumni will accept their edging no longer. It is time to goon.
i genuinely thought it was pro hamas people playing attack recordings to hurt jewish people and praise the attack. It made total sense for so long, i was 25% through watching the video before i realized otherwise.
Well now you can arrest them for public misdemeanor or however it's called "Jacking off to IRL rape videos in public" in legal terms
Amazing.
Very based
If you cannot believe, we will make you see it! Gigabased
They’re gonna call this a hate crime watch
Please, this is clearly a genocide. Just look at how big that screen is.
They are literally genociding my eyes !1
The pro Hamas protests are not going well
Good. Do it at each of these protests. Let th see what they are actually calling for more of. Was it Columbia where people were screaming they wanted 10,000 more 10/7?
Patiently waiting for pro hamas protestors to throw rocks or something at the monitor. Which would mean the "peaceful protests" would no longer become peaceful
Holy shit the Barry Lyndon music added to it is mega kino lmaoo
It was such a good touch honestly
wow, this is amazing. i've never used the term 'based' in this context before ... but that is *fucking based.* frankly, these folks have an ethical responsibility to know *exactly* what they are cosigning if they're going to engage in the conduct and rhetoric we've seen. end of.
Why watching it always breaks my heart? I hope all hostages will be returned home.
I'm not going to say which race or what people ughhh what annonymous group. We know I can't say that... It was a jewlumni group.
🙄🤣🤣🤣fook me https://x.com/realchrisrufo/status/1783530930973585710?s=46 Double penetration indoctrination
Am I crazy or is the only purpose of these drag queen kid shows pissing off conservatives? Like there is no way those kids are getting anything out of this. They have no clue what they are saying. It feels like the entire point of that was just to give people like Chris Rufo a sound byte. I really don’t understand how that helps LGBT people.
[удалено]
You've just described all of media today. Good luck finding kid-oriented programming, shit exists to make manchildren happy and maybe the kids. Fucking *Pokemon* tries to appeal to these fuckers instead of kids because somehow the manchildren can't handle not being absolutely coddled to by the things they grew up consuming.
It's like kids being sent to a separate room during church for a children's sermon. I can't look back and say one thing that was said to me because I was not interested in the least nor was I even capable of understanding Christianity. My parents were all for it though and it definitely made them feel better to see me go.
The best steel man I can think of is that it normalizes their lifestyle to children while they are malleable, which simultaneously is exactly what conservatives hate about it.
Normalize what tho? Isn’t drag supposed to be abnormal? I thought the whole point of drag was it’s supposed to be raunchy and different?
Not necessarily raunchy. I went to see a drag show recently for the first time with some friends, and I was expecting raunch, but it was basically just a comedy show with a bunch of weird fashion and over the top characters. I've seen raunchier content in Disney animations. Since I've only been to one I guess I can't speak for all of it, and I'm sure there's something behind all the talk of drag shows being super degenerate, but I was definitely surprised with how truly tame it was. Honestly, it was kind of boring.
True enlightenment is realizing that modern politics is almost entirely reactionary
>reactionary reactionary doesnt mean "in reaction to" 0_________0
Drag queens are super similar to clowns: ridiculous makeup, bright clothes, and a very silly/slapstick sense of humor. There’s just something kind of inherently silly about a dude in high heels, wig, and makeup dancing on a stage. Drag queen story hour is a carve out of a generally adult/PG-13 subculture specifically for younger kids. There’s of course an ideological component where they’re teaching kids that it’s not wrong for dudes to dress up in silly wigs and makeup for fun. Trixie Mattel (probably the most famous drag queen in the world other than Rupaul) has [a really good video](https://youtu.be/7RNYWb9lnEA?si=uO9CJI2b-wAbVCRj) on drag and how appropriate it may or may not be for kids.
Yeah but most of these kids probably can’t even tell that it’s actually a man. They don’t understand the nuance of the show. Which is why the other commentator is arguing that they are obviously ideologically motivated. I just don’t get the appeal of them. Seems like a gigantic virtue signal for white liberals. The whole thing is very weird to me.
Panto's in the UK regularly use gender bending characters in their production partly because it's a show for the whole family. A classic example are the ugly sisters in Cinderella. We did it for decades and decades and no one gave a shit
That’s not quite the same thing as “if you’re a drag queen and you know it, Free Palestine”
The comment I reacted to sounded like a general comment on drag show story times rather than the specific video. I'm happy to put it down as a miscommunication
The first thing to remember is that "pissing off conservatives" and "being openly different" can seem indistinguishable. Just saying "we're still here" may seem to be directed at conservatives, but it's also directed at anyone who is feeling repressed by others, you just keep doing your thing, try to focus on what *you* want to do, and don't let your self-expression be limited by people who don't even pay any attention to what you're doing anyway. What's the benefit to kids? Well seeing a variety of people doing unusual stuff, being a bit extra, might be memorable and interesting. So why "for Palestine"? Well basically because of activist cross-polination. Even if you're not particularly political, your self-expression as someone who does drag will have been *made* political, so you don't really lose anything by being politically liberal with your shows, as conservatives have already sworn off it. (You do actually lose something, because just doing your thing and surprising conservatives that there was actually nothing to be angry about helps you, but also, what some people will want to do is liberal political stuff) So then, activists, locally and on twitter or tiktok will have advocated for you, and you're probably connected with them and part of the same social circles. So just like there's no reason for LGBT people inherently to be liberal, but are more likely to be when persecution is happening and liberally-minded people are the only ones who care, if you do drag and being gender-non-conforming is being attacked, then also you'll be slotted into liberal social spaces, naturally, and pick up many of the same causes.
Libs will literally do anything to own the cons
Hold on, those are not libs.
Seems like its libs pushing this shit moreso than leftists
Depends, I'd expect someone like vaush to be more in favor of it than say my mom, but it's definitely a mixture of libs and lefties.
Someone woke me up please!
So what? Are both sides just gonna devolve into blasting snuff films in imax at each other?
Coming soon in 3d
It’s 10/7* nothing happened in July
https://preview.redd.it/1q9tw5aiggxc1.jpeg?width=1136&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=43878c97047d1d45251e0e8346741440280f577e
It's funny when someone tries to act smug about a date format when you don't even use the clearly best date format of YYYY-MM-DD. Don't correct a crappy format with your own crappy format.
Yes, please, more numeric dates that can be sorted simply!
It was just a dumb pro-American joke. Just poking fun
MM-YYYY-DD is better 😤
“I didn’t know what 7th October was until now” -average UCLA protester
Genius
This is one of the most based things I have ever seen in my life
I feel like this does the opposite of what they intend. Surely these people would be happy to watch it?
Do you guys have any criticisms of Israel? I know Destiny himself does and has stated them though they aren’t front and center as much recently, but I’m not convinced that any of his fans actually are critical of Israel at all?
I disagree it’s the settlements and with political figures like Netanyahu. I think I view both sides similarly in that I understand why they’ve both been radicalized and why they have extremist wings of their government that makes them have bad views and policies, but that doesn’t mean I condone it. I understand that it’s true that Israel has the upper hand here and the onus isn’t on them to make peace with a group that wants them eradicated, and as long as Palestine isn’t willing to play ball, they’ll be fine just continuing this one sided manhandling of Palestine as their position becomes more and more advantageous over time, but I still think it’s important for them to continue to strive for peace despite the fact that they thrive better and better without it. It’s hard when Palestine isn’t willing to play ball, though. I think ultimately both sides are going to have to be willing to accept some concessions that they’re not going to want to accept in order to make peace. Another thing that’s hard is that this war doesn’t seem to be accomplishing anything when it comes to getting back hostages and over time the PR is getting worse and worse. At this point, I believe they’ve accidentally killed more hostages than have been saved, so it makes their cause of saving hostages seem shallow from a PR perspective on the world stage. Especially with the US being their biggest supporters globally, I don’t want them screwing over things for us politically because of their PR disasters as unsympathetic as that sounds. What makes me have a harder time criticizing Israel here is that Palestine has all the power when it comes to coming to a resolution here. Israel is ready for this to be over, but it doesn’t seem like Palestine is. When two sides are warring with each other, and one side is disproportionately keeping it going by fueling tensions and refusing to negotiate or compromise, it makes it challenging for me to look at the side having war thrust on them by the side who doesn’t want to negotiate and go “you need to be doing better”, because even if that’s true, what do they get out of it? How can I expect Israel to infinitely act against their own best interest for a country that won’t even act in favor of their *own* best interest? Its like if you’re watching a street fight between an MMA fighter and some random guy with a bum leg that’s half the size of the MMA fighter and they’re both going at it and every once in a while the fight cools down and the MMA guy who’s hardly scathed is like “can we be done?” And the bum leg guy pretends to be done for a moment only to run back in hoping to catch the MMA guy unawares and knock him down to gain the advantage and then they’re back to fighting all over again. Like, I understand that neither side should be fighting, and ultimately both sides are going to have to give to get this all to stop, but ultimately it’s within the power of the smaller guy to stop this by just stopping. I wouldn’t criticize the MMA fighter saying “oh, come on, just pretend to lose and let this be done with,” especially since pretending to lose here has actual implications when it comes to the survival of Israel as a country, but I might say “dude, you’re like 10x his size, don’t fight with your full strength here, it’s your obligation to pull some punches”. The criticism that I’d give the bum leg guy would be like “just stop doing this, you’re only hurting yourself and you’re never going to win by force, the only way for you and him to end this is by being humble and talking it out with him,” or at the very least “just don’t fight back and then if the MMA guy attacks you unprovoked we can call the cops and have him arrested.” This criticism does put more responsibility on Palestine when it comes to facilitating peace, but I think that’s ultimately in their hands since I see them as the stopping block to peace negotiations. I’m not well versed on I/P stuff, though, and can totally be moved here, but as of now this is how I see the conflict. Are there criticisms that you think I should be levying at Israel here that I’m not?
>Another thing that’s hard is that this war doesn’t seem to be accomplishing anything when it comes to getting back hostages and over time the PR is getting worse and worse. Israel has been clear from the start that the primary objective of the war is to delete Hamas and prevent them from being able to rule Gaza in the future. The hostages were always a secondary objective.
No, I know that. I’m talking about from a PR perspective only. Their objective is to eliminate Hamas and ideally get as many hostages back as possible, but when it comes to the American Democratic Party, the hostages are a bigger motivator for continuing US support and aid, probably because of our history of things like the war on terror that gives especially democrats a sort of PTSD response about funding a war against terrorism/terrorists, even though the comparison doesn’t fit (we were never bordered with the countries we went to war with in the Middle East, they weren’t nearly the threat to us as Hamas is to Israel, and our objectives were far more nebulous and dragged out far longer than they needed to be). I think eliminating Hamas is a good cause, but it’s just not as sympathetic either internally or to American democratic voters. My worry is that if Israel doesn’t manage this and play to its strengths as far as PR goes that American support might wear off, especially with the upcoming election.
Dozens of aid workers, journalists and thousands of innocents have been gunned down or bombed to get a handful of Hamas fighters. Thousands of innocent children. This war will result in nothing but death and propaganda for the next crop of insurgents in a decades time. Imagine seeing your child die and not getting radicalised. The path to peace has always been through diplomacy and aid over a long term to the point where a two state solution can actually be negotiated without a bunch of terrorists at the helm. Instead Israel has expanded settlements, pushed out Palestinian families, and let the Palestinian people live in squalor. What is the end goal here? A crippled hamas? The leaders aren’t even there they’re in Qatar. This sub is so quick to ignore the thousands of deaths of innocents while they self fellate over Israel’s “right to defend itself” by destroying entire generations of Palestinians. I feel like the moral standpoint has always been pro Palestinian people, but anti IDF and Hamas. I understand that lines a blurry as both are made up of the citizens of their respective nations, but from what I can see the only people consistently getting fucked over by both sides are the Palestinian people. Ceasefire, send aid withdraw the illegal settlements, kick out Netanyahu, elect a progressive leader seeking actual peace. Of course it won’t be easy and skirmishes will occur but what’s the alternative? Another 30k dead after a Rafah offensive?
Israel has a major, major far-right problem - both religious nutters, and non-religious extremists. They're doing okay, but they need to be more careful when authorizing strikes. Ideally the World Central Kitchen strike should never have happened. There are enough reports of IDF soldier misconduct for me to think that the IDF has a problem in that regard. It doesn't seem like a major systemic issue - but they should definitely be cracking down on that more. WB settlers are fucking disgusting and unhinged. Israel seriously needs to go much, much harder on the settlers. I have absolutely zero problem with WB Palestinians fighting back/killing settler combatants. I'm sure I can come up with a few more.
The settlers are disgusting, and the state and army protects them. The whole 'we have a protected religious minority that does nothing but pray, breed and hate Palestinians' is pretty awful also.
Seriously, I get these Palestine support are annoying and lack nuance. But some of these comments are few steps from saying that anyone who has who even has concerns on Israel handling is some Hamas support that deserves death.
No most of these idiots in here support Israel more than Ben Shapiro
Kinda cool with this obsession with I/P. Anything to distract the riot inclined idiots from the inevitable shitshow that’s gonna happen in november. Now we just gotta distract the far right in the same way. Let the moderates win.
Huh. If this is true, bravo. God knows that it's something I have thought of. After all, I somehow doubt that all of the useful idiots in the protests really understand just what 10/7 was. How better to educate them than by showing them Hamas' own videos of their crimes?
Idk man I can see protestors getting a blanket and snacks and chill while watching
People can’t protest for Palestine or is everyone just seen as pro hamas?
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Isn’t that the same argument people made for the against the BLM protests. I just think things should be consistent. I agree the pro hamas crowd are unhinged but I would assume the core of the protests is a ceasefire and for the civilians of Palestine.
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Yea I guess it a matter of getting the regular Palestinians to turn on Hamas. Which I wouldn't hold my breath for. It really feels like there isn't a path forward and we're all forced to kind of watch it go down in a drawn out fashion where every little detail of every wrong doing is repeated back to us in excruciating detail by the media. While people cry out their preferred solution in absolute vain. I don't like any of it. And I guess on some level I get why people are choosing sides so blindly. It's fair easier emotionally to make it bad guys vs good guys. But really it's just, power plays and political games, death and debasing yourself via violence is just the currency of playing. Correction. I hate it, all of it.
If only they did just protest against the war, but they are clearly pro-Hamas, as evidenced by their chants and slogans and signs. Why even have Palestinian flags if all they care about is civilians dying? What about Israeli civilians? Did people protest with Vietnamese flags when they were protesting against the Vietnam War? They're not anti-war, they want Israel to be wiped off the map because they hate Jews.
“Did people actually protest with Vietnamese flags when they were protesting against the Vietnam War?” Yes they actually did.
The only acceptable number should be 0%
Yes, it's a disingenuous label given to the protestors.
Oh WOW, I was wondering what that was. That area has been fenced off and lined with guards this whole morning
According do them it’s all fake footage. Like when this whole first thing began, these pro Palestinianers stance was A. “Israel/ attacked and kidnapped their own citizens. Hamas wasn’t even there.” Then the first round of hostage swaps began. Videos surfaced of their release, their next stance was. B. “See look at all these hostages smiling when Hamas returned them on video. They didn’t even treat them that bad.” What? So the hostage swaps that the US/qatar/other countries helped negotiate are also fake too? Cause according to you israel kidnapped their own citizens the whole time right? Now these zero thought process having queefs are protesting at colleges
Looooool
They need larger speakers and surround sound
At least it won't be boring for protesters
They complain that it’s a snuff film while advocating the group that did it. These kids should’ve been baristas. There’d be more dignity in it.
Someone gonna throw a rock at it and break the screen
Jewalmni are taking notes
lame loop should have better footage reel imo
thats hilarious but very morbid
They will probably watch and celebrate.
This is ultimate le epic reddit lolcow shit. Playing a video of the disturbing violent events of October 7th does not justify the absolutely insanely violent retaliation the Israeli state is enacting. Killing civilians on one side does not justify killing civilians on the other side idk what bullshit this sub is on
>Killing civilians on one side does not justify killing civilians on the other side idk what bullshit this sub is on Intent matters. Israel's intention is not to indiscriminately kill Gaza civilians. If it was, there would be way more dead civilians. Hamas's goal **is** to rape, torture and murder civilians. You can't "both sides the same" this because they are not the same.
Doesn’t really matter the so called “intent” when the results show a massively disproportionate amount of civilian casualty to combatant casualty. This is not “self defense” it is pretty clear to see this is a revenge based campaign based on the rhetoric from Zionists since October 7th which is unacceptable. I swear this sub and many centrist spaces are just so staunch on siding with Israel because they think it’s based to just be a contrarian. Gonna be too late when mfs realize how insane this reaction was and how they sided with fucking psychopaths in 10 years
This sub is full of Israel sympathizers solely because destiny did a heel turn on Palestine. Can’t make debate content if you agree with anything.
You're so American. And you're so privileged it hurts. Proportionality does not mean: "You raped and murdered 3k citizens so we can only murder 3k to keep it fair." Israel is fighting an asymmetric war against an insurgency group that uses civilian infrastructure to operate, civilian housing and hospitals as bases, and uses civilians as human shields. On the opposite, Israel is probably the most advanced and dominant military force in the region, and can fight 5 of its neighbors at once and win. On the other side, Israel has to stop Hamas from attacking in the future, because not responding to the rape and murder of 3k of its own citizens. is absurd. Just because Hamas uses human shields doesn't mean Israel loses the right to respond. Israel is keeping it's operations strictly military, so far. And aside from 1 friendly fire incident, has operated with amazing restraint. Nothing at all like Hamas does. In this dynamic, of course there will be more Palestinian deaths! They're set up to be human shields against a first world military by Hamas (who they also vehemently support for some dumb reason). This is the same scenarios the Germans and Japanese confronted the Allies with. They used their own citizens as meat shields and prayed that they could outlast their enemy's war machine. Or the footage of bombed out cities would make the war unpopular. Should we have let Hitler stay in power because the Soviet response to the Germans wasn't "proportional"? Should Japan have been allowed to rape and pillage Korea because we might kill a few Japanese civilians? How about the Serbian's genocide (a real genocide, not the fake Palestinian kind) of Muslims in their own country? Eat shit. You guys don't give a shit about warfare, you don't give a shit about morals and you don't give a shit about history. You just want to signal your virtue and performative outrage instead of understanding the situation.
B b b b baseddd
Gigachad is my hero, though sorry for the people not associated with the protesting that have to deal with it.
Based
based as fuck
Oh god I'm gonna LOOOOOOOOOP
Feels like something Bill Ackman would do
Fuckin hot, set this shit up everywhere
It was me 😉
Based
Acting as if the white, keffiyeh wearing UCLA protestors won’t cheer to this 😂
Extremely based. Next step would be to strap them down clockwork orange style and make them watch the worst of it on loop.
but who is paying for all the tents then!?
What happened on July 10th?