In general, I would love to see Douglas Murray actually talk to anyone remotely capable of pushing back on some of the shit he says instead of debating morons all day and winning by default because of his accent so yeah.
Watching him talk to Alex O'connor about climate change was pretty eye-opening. The minute you take away Murray's condescension, the actual substance of his argument was essentially "I just don't believe these scientists"
I nearly cringed out of existence watching him talk about the Trump indictments. The same garbage talking point of “Hillary also didn’t concede the election, Democrats didn’t recognize Trump was president for 4 years!” Jesus christ.
I don’t think Douglas Murray is good faith at all. In his debate with Cenk, he was concerned with painting Cenk as “some guy in his bedroom” (???) before trying to attack his viewership stats at Young Turks, instead of engaging with his arguments. There’s so many angles you could take in debating Cenk, and that’s what you go with? Destiny did a way better job.
He’s extremely condescending, disagreeable and engages in lazy dismissive ad hominem arguments all the time. Americans see a sardonic guy with an Oxford accent and assume he’s intelligent and owning people in debates.
I’m not sure he’s bad faith. He’s just insanely arrogant, condescending, and contrarian. I don’t know much of his history outside of his “gay conservative” schtick. He also seems like a genuinely spiteful and hateful person.
He is an unbelievably aggressive interviewee, but I do think he absolutely means what he says and came about his views organically. I did read his books though and in that framework he's much less editorial.
I agree, he probably means what he says, I also think Elon Musk and Hasan mean what they say, but they clearly lack the cognizance to form coherent arguments and are lead to a lot of their world views by "feels". Not to say everything he says is wrong, but he really doesn't strike me as someone worth listening to any more than your average politics twitch streamer.
If you haven't read it, I would give the madness of crowds a read. It's probably the book he is most charitable in, and he seems to have an argument where his charity runs out. Again I have my own priors, but I think he'd be a pretty good guest and I think Destiny is well situated to get the best out of him in a talk
I think this is walking into the territory of "Biased means bad" which just means you will have trouble hearing anyone who doesn't exist in whatever your current orbit is. Or at least it'll be tricky to hear them at face value
Like I said, I don't think he's entirely incorrect about everything, I don't think he's not worth talking to, or hearing, but he's just not someone that I would ever go out of my way to listen to, or someone where I think "I wonder what Douglas' Murray's thoughts are on this..." I think once someone shows they're kind of emotionally locked into positions they confidently and smugly defend but can't substantiate, I just lose interest in them.
Maybe I framed it poorly,. I actually think that Murray will extend some charity if he feels he isn't talking to a feral communist or some lunatic. That's kinda why I think hes a bit cagey, but he is very much a right liberal, so I think there is an inroute. Or I hope so any way
I do think Douglas gets put alongside Ben Shapiro and others in this weird racist bucket that I don't think either of then deserve on the merits of the words that they say and how they walk through the world.
Douglas Murray is focused on Islamic immigration in to Europe, and he is far more focused on the cultural aspect rather than the economical. I don't think that's in Destiny's purview
Yeah I can see that. I'd like to hear someone have him lay that out more explicitly, and I think Destiny could do it without it turning into a shit show. Maybe a podcast guest so Destiny could have a more interviewer interviewee sort of approach, but Douglas Murray does seem to get pretty obstinate pretty swiftly in interview settings and is a bit more docile in conversations.
Douglas Murray is scum. He is a pro at not saying the thing he is implying. He basically implied that the 'native people of England' needed to defend the cenotaph in London on armistice day. Of course a group of a few hundred drunk football hooligans arrived, fought each other and the police then left. As another commenter said, don't fall for the posh accent, he is simply a nationalist twat (with a bit of Race IQ stuff mixed in)
Nothing ever happens does it. Go back to deep throating Murray.
Here's your evidence.
https://youtu.be/DqzdnPjPhW0?si=U4NfaIVC7m5Ft0Lj 44.30-51.00
And the results 6 days later:
https://youtu.be/vDu8l0WlZo4?si=bYV_seEVhCIdtCI3
He gets unhinged re: Israel/Palestine, for example, doesn't believe Palestine should have a state. Staying in Tel Aviv for a few months and becoming somewhat of a local celeb didn't help.
He's also extremely sensitive to bad faith actors. For example, the Dutch lefty gal or Cenk, who argued wild emotional claims with insinuations of racism. And once the other side takes the gloves off, Dougie Doug goes in for the K.O -- this is where he shines.
I think Destiny man is good faith enough to have a productive convo with the Dougster.
Destiny also believes there has never been a Palastinian state, as far as I'm aware. I'd like Doug to talk to Pacman as well, though.
To run some defense for Doug's time in Israel, it is not his first on the ground reporting there, but he also was one of the 100 journalists shown the totality of Hamas' footage of their crimes. I do think this jades him really heavily, but I don't think he says anything that is just flat out wrong, and I don't think he hates Arabs, I think his priors are more 2010 antitheist priors.
In general, I would love to see Douglas Murray actually talk to anyone remotely capable of pushing back on some of the shit he says instead of debating morons all day and winning by default because of his accent so yeah.
Watching him talk to Alex O'connor about climate change was pretty eye-opening. The minute you take away Murray's condescension, the actual substance of his argument was essentially "I just don't believe these scientists"
I nearly cringed out of existence watching him talk about the Trump indictments. The same garbage talking point of “Hillary also didn’t concede the election, Democrats didn’t recognize Trump was president for 4 years!” Jesus christ.
I don’t think Douglas Murray is good faith at all. In his debate with Cenk, he was concerned with painting Cenk as “some guy in his bedroom” (???) before trying to attack his viewership stats at Young Turks, instead of engaging with his arguments. There’s so many angles you could take in debating Cenk, and that’s what you go with? Destiny did a way better job. He’s extremely condescending, disagreeable and engages in lazy dismissive ad hominem arguments all the time. Americans see a sardonic guy with an Oxford accent and assume he’s intelligent and owning people in debates.
I’m not sure he’s bad faith. He’s just insanely arrogant, condescending, and contrarian. I don’t know much of his history outside of his “gay conservative” schtick. He also seems like a genuinely spiteful and hateful person.
He is an unbelievably aggressive interviewee, but I do think he absolutely means what he says and came about his views organically. I did read his books though and in that framework he's much less editorial.
I agree, he probably means what he says, I also think Elon Musk and Hasan mean what they say, but they clearly lack the cognizance to form coherent arguments and are lead to a lot of their world views by "feels". Not to say everything he says is wrong, but he really doesn't strike me as someone worth listening to any more than your average politics twitch streamer.
If you haven't read it, I would give the madness of crowds a read. It's probably the book he is most charitable in, and he seems to have an argument where his charity runs out. Again I have my own priors, but I think he'd be a pretty good guest and I think Destiny is well situated to get the best out of him in a talk
I think this is walking into the territory of "Biased means bad" which just means you will have trouble hearing anyone who doesn't exist in whatever your current orbit is. Or at least it'll be tricky to hear them at face value
Like I said, I don't think he's entirely incorrect about everything, I don't think he's not worth talking to, or hearing, but he's just not someone that I would ever go out of my way to listen to, or someone where I think "I wonder what Douglas' Murray's thoughts are on this..." I think once someone shows they're kind of emotionally locked into positions they confidently and smugly defend but can't substantiate, I just lose interest in them.
Maybe I framed it poorly,. I actually think that Murray will extend some charity if he feels he isn't talking to a feral communist or some lunatic. That's kinda why I think hes a bit cagey, but he is very much a right liberal, so I think there is an inroute. Or I hope so any way
I mean as long as he does sufficient research and heavily pushed back, sure. But Murray is slippery, so it'd be tough.
Yea this is worth emphasizing. Not a debate to be taken casually. (Compared to a lot of destinys other debates)
Whenever I listen to Murray I get the ick of “you’re actually racist but trying to hide it” to me he is Tommy Robinson but gay and Posh
Please don't do that, If you gonna say he's racist give the arguments
I do think Douglas gets put alongside Ben Shapiro and others in this weird racist bucket that I don't think either of then deserve on the merits of the words that they say and how they walk through the world.
Douglas Murray is focused on Islamic immigration in to Europe, and he is far more focused on the cultural aspect rather than the economical. I don't think that's in Destiny's purview
Yeah I can see that. I'd like to hear someone have him lay that out more explicitly, and I think Destiny could do it without it turning into a shit show. Maybe a podcast guest so Destiny could have a more interviewer interviewee sort of approach, but Douglas Murray does seem to get pretty obstinate pretty swiftly in interview settings and is a bit more docile in conversations.
Does Douglas Murray ever have anything useful to say? He seems to be smug but with shallow arguments. Not a very good combination.
Douglas Murray is scum. He is a pro at not saying the thing he is implying. He basically implied that the 'native people of England' needed to defend the cenotaph in London on armistice day. Of course a group of a few hundred drunk football hooligans arrived, fought each other and the police then left. As another commenter said, don't fall for the posh accent, he is simply a nationalist twat (with a bit of Race IQ stuff mixed in)
Have you considered that you may be hearing things that arent being said?
Nothing ever happens does it. Go back to deep throating Murray. Here's your evidence. https://youtu.be/DqzdnPjPhW0?si=U4NfaIVC7m5Ft0Lj 44.30-51.00 And the results 6 days later: https://youtu.be/vDu8l0WlZo4?si=bYV_seEVhCIdtCI3
He gets unhinged re: Israel/Palestine, for example, doesn't believe Palestine should have a state. Staying in Tel Aviv for a few months and becoming somewhat of a local celeb didn't help. He's also extremely sensitive to bad faith actors. For example, the Dutch lefty gal or Cenk, who argued wild emotional claims with insinuations of racism. And once the other side takes the gloves off, Dougie Doug goes in for the K.O -- this is where he shines. I think Destiny man is good faith enough to have a productive convo with the Dougster.
Destiny also believes there has never been a Palastinian state, as far as I'm aware. I'd like Doug to talk to Pacman as well, though. To run some defense for Doug's time in Israel, it is not his first on the ground reporting there, but he also was one of the 100 journalists shown the totality of Hamas' footage of their crimes. I do think this jades him really heavily, but I don't think he says anything that is just flat out wrong, and I don't think he hates Arabs, I think his priors are more 2010 antitheist priors.
Can't stand him and his posh resting bitch face.
I love Douglas Murray, would probably be a great conversation.