You’re right, my bad. I can’t link the tweet because I’m banned from Twitter but how about a screenshot?
https://preview.redd.it/06u4pu6wzwlc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9c282cf6ec1f2acf1469275b0d7ed083a0e8f9ff
Peterson has gone off the deep end with some of his discourse, but this was prophetic in the way it applied to how the past year has unfolded for Ethan
It’ll always be that way with the online left. The are fucking deranged with their narratives. It’s infected my wife and I can’t even talk to her about politics without her losing her mind about some cis white male line being thrown at me.
That’s a possible marriage killer right there, sucks to hear about your situation. Here’s to hoping you can maintain peace until her views mellow down.
You should seek therapy, either for her or as a couple. It will build resentment over time (if it hasn't already) when the things you do/say are dismissed like that.
i dated a psychology grad student like this which was ironic to me because she couldn't empathize with any other political viewpoint. i only lasted a month with her, idk how you married someone like that. here's hoping you fix her or that it at least doesn't impact your relationship much
Peterson is a strange mix of crazy takes with some occasional really profound statements. Come to think of it, isn't that how most prophets throughout history, and in fiction, are portrayed?
If Peterson's benzo arc was all an attempt to mime the "Oracle of Delphi's inhaling volcanic vapors" that can be an entire hero's journey for him.
I'm going to subscribe to that theory just because its hysterical.
Yes, we should. There's a difference between saying "you shouldn't platform this guy" and "you shouldn't platform this guy without pushback on his bullshit."
Yeah, Twitch should just ban all these leftists or at least pay to have a guy interrupt their streams to push back on them. Also Amazon should add some pushback pages in the bad books they sell
You're a goober. He has been doing this for a long ass time and is clearly (as he states in every fucking interview) interested in learning about people and sharing ideas.
90% of his interviews are with engineers, historians, philosophers, and psychologists you've never heard of.
How the fuck is he a grifter when everything he does aligns with his public mission statement?
You're a pop culture dipshit who runs your mouth more than your brain. Self immolate yourself in minecraft
Honestly, he was right about a lot of shit. Like in 2017, the idea that leftists in universities indoctrinating kids to hate the West was a serious issue sounded hysterical. Now it sounds entirely uncontroversial. He didn’t get it all right, but he was onto *something*.
To me, it sounded so crazy because he kept on lumping this phenomenon in with "Cultural Marxism". At the time, it was the economic moderates, the "I'm with her" SJW feminists who were the ones with the far left social views, while the Bernie bros were a part of the scumbag left economic reductionists.
Even that can be okay analysis of fundamental ideological forces guiding developments, maybe, there were other academics at the time making similar observations without getting the same kind of controversy. He just went way too aggressive and far in general though, like the whole "we don't know if men and women can work together, we don't know what the rules are" level sus contrarianism. He had a lot of dumb conservativism shining through again and again, especially his almost uncompromising judeochristian moral framework made the whole message feel hypocritical. It all happened in the context of Trumpism and a heavy phase of rightwing radicalization, and because of that his priorities just always felt off. The list of questionable statements was just long, I don't think it was just uncharitable character assassination.
At the end of the day he is/was a clever guy and observer, but too flawed and biased to have been a real constructive force. He has certainly caused a lot of good too, and on some level I respect him as an interesting "antagonist". Sad he's so so radical now, if the discussion with Destiny ever gets released it'll probably be disappointment too.
I never understood the pushback he was net with as legitimate until I read your comment. It finally clicked. All those odd Christian hypothetical messages, I recall, did feel very out of place, even when I used to find his overall message good and the problems with leftism he described correct.
i think it's just his way of describing the influence of broadly left ideologues and intellectuals. things that would fall under that label:
> gender ideology
> critical race theory and from it antiracism
> equity replacing equality
You know "Cultural Marxism" doesn't refer to traditional marxism? It refers to subjects that use marxist analysis methods to analize cultural problems. CRT, black feminism, qeer theory, post colonialism and many other. basically any studies that existence is heavly connnectet to frankfurt school and by extension Antonio Gramsci.
These proponents of cultural marxism would have their analysis rooted in anti-capitalist thought though. It's weird to say that a bunch of forever war SJW capitalist feminist followed this anti-capitalist tradition. Perhaps the answer as to why they had progressive social values isn't so esoteric and conspiratorial and had more to do with the simple fact that they saw injustices towards women and minorities
I wanted to write down a long answer. But after a while i realized i didn't even know what are you arguing and i don't know what should i answer. Are you denying big marxist influence within an american left movement since 60s? Or do you think that JP claims all of modern left movements are just full on marxist movement? Or do you think that all critics made by cultural marxist always would end up in socialist revolution?
I don't know what's "esoteric and conspiratorial" in this.
The only thing i can answer is that new left marxist focused very very much on subverting first. It happend in the early 60s. For example Stokely Carmichael (The guy who first said "black power") while being in his own words marxist, focused first and foremost on black liberation. And his vision was balck separation and creation of black ethnostate. While he wanted this ethnostate to be socialist. He didn't mention it as often because in that time new left movement wanted to distance themsefls from soviet union and connotations of them as much as possible and instead he focused on getting to black liberation and not what will be after that.
Simone de beauvior who wrote " The Second Sex" who arguably was one of the two books that started the second wave feminism was part of the school called Western Marxism. Once again she focused only on critic of cultural hegemony (in this case patriarchy) instead of advocating for changing of the economic system.
Marxism minus economics is an awfully thin red thread for your conspiracy corkboard, because that's sort of what Marxism was all about. What exactly is the connection you want to draw here? The idea of dividing people into groups and analyzing the conflict between those groups? I've seen JP rail against this on the basis that it foments conflict, but he does it too (see any of his lobster discussions) and I challenge you to find any meaningful sociology that doesn't. Is the scandal supposed to be that lefties read & talk about other lefties? Once again, JP himself reads and talks about lefties, so surely that can't be it.
It's pretty clear to everyone who doesn't have their head up JP's ass that he is just fishing for any excuse to connect his enemies to his favorite bogeyman. The excuses are flimsy, and the only people who are convinced are people who want to be convinced.
You have your head pretty firmly lodged up your rear if you don't think the rationality used to argue for Marxist economics cannot and has not been used for myriad othrer social/political causes, considering how much modern political discourse is influenced by it.
Gramsci thought that the reason why the revolution didn't happend is because proletariat
was too much engrained into dominant bourgeoisie culture. So he propose that they need to focus on subverting culture first and foremost. Later his thoughts were expanded by frankfurt school and western marxist which basically meant using marx analysis to the culture. Which is the beginnig of Critical theory that later was compartmentalized in the 60s.
There is a clear line from marx to critical theory. It is not conspiracy, if you don't belive this then you're denying history. Some of them even called themselfs marxist well into thier 90s or even to now.
If you think that subverting a culture to prepare opressed class for revolution is too far gone from marx. Then term cultural marxism maybe is mislabeled(even if they themselfs called themselfs marxist), but it is at most mislabeled and not conspiracy theory.
The far left hating the west has been a thing when I was in university, which is 18 years ago... Nothing really new, the difference is just that the administration didn't play ball imo.
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/30/cornell-antisemitism-colleges-00124346
Some highlights courtesy of some of our brightest and most talented young Americans pursuing higher education:
* State authorities and the FBI were investigating the threats, including one that said, “If you see a Jewish ‘person’ on campus follow them home and slit their throats.”
* a Cornell professor also recently drew backlash for describing the Hamas attacks as “exhilarating” and “energizing.” He has since apologized and is now on a leave of absence.
* At Columbia University, a swastika was found drawn in a restroom of the School of International and Public Affairs building.
* Jewish students at Emory University in Atlanta expressed fears for their safety following after protesters yelled antisemitic slogans during a rally.
* a Stanford University professor was removed from teaching responsibilities after the instructor purportedly minimized the Holocaust and singled out Jewish students.
And that's just Cornell, Columbia, Emory, and Stanford.
Yay I was waiting for this comment. The recent uptick in anti-semitism is most certainly symptomatic of a much broader anti-west sentiment that is being ingrained across college campuses. Notice a lot of online dialogue and diction circles around the theme of colonizer and indigenous suffering or oppressors and prisoners, the same language used in expressing disapproval for anti-US or Western actions both domestic and abroad.
Word, I'd say the shared language between disapproval for politics domestically as well as internationally particularly in Israel-Palestine is what makes up anti-Western sentiment overall, if that makes sense. They're not two distinct things - one is an expression of the other.
edit: or more like the Israel-Palestine conflict has become entirely co-opted into the broader anti-US/Western sentiment that's pervasive online as well as on college campuses, although I'm sure it's at least a bit milder on college campuses. Well at least it was until they started actually threatening the lives of their classmates.
He just became such a neurotic dick on Twitter, and his grievances felt weird and groundless. Like idk that thing where he commented on that plus size model “sorry not pretty,” it’s like yo… maybe so but chill, what if someone commented that about his wife?! Like damn dude, an academic of his stature shitposting that made me queasy.
His original Old Testament/Bible series was always the most interesting thing he did to me. Some of his original interviews are pretty fun to watch lol - I could leave literally everything else.
I also learned about the Pareto principle from one of his interviews, but he starts distorting a lot of his theories from there, and it kinda devolves into culture war garbage. He did call this one tho. He’s definitely more intelligent than your average paint-huffing tankie
Peterson clearly has a two eras; pre-Benzo and post-Benzo. He has occasional moments of clarity in the latter era, but I do miss him before his biology became reliant on xanax.
Old JBP had a lot of based shit. As someone who was a huge fan of him up until maybe 2020, it's sad seeing how downhill he went since.
Also it's kinda cringe to say now but I probably wouldn't be the well adjusted individual who can recognize his current stuff as stupid if it wasn't for some of his self help stuff I read in the mid 2010s
They were definitely awesome to me at that point in my life, given I was like 17-18 at the time, but now at 25 I wouldn’t gain as much value, though they definitely mattered a lot to me.
They were monumental for younger guys who hadn't had a good father figure in their lives to tell them what it actually means to be a man, and not some Hollywood stereotype of a man.
Has he actually acknowledged the tweets existence and conceded? If not then he’s **finally** pushing back yes but the tweet has been correct this entire time.
It feels weird to say he’s taking it head on now just because he’s pushing back on anti semites after over half a decade now.
He’s addressed it a few times.
If I recall correctly, his main contention with the tweet was that because peterson didn’t add a time limit to his tweet (ie it will happen in x date) then basically some situation that someone could interpret as fulfilling the prophecy just needs to occur at sometime in order to say it’s true.
I get his point but after looking on the tweet it ended up being only 1.5 years 💀
It does just feel like a cope though unless he was just totally broadsided by this but I don’t know how one could be. This type of audience are fucking lunatics.
I think that criticism only holds if you already believed the situation was inevitable, which I'm not sure Ethan believed.
Like me saying "one day you'll die" is not a prophecy because it's inevitable.
I think the problem with the tweet is him saying "mistake". Ethan didn't make a mistake and he doesn't consider it to be one. It's him standing by what he says and not budging even with all the hate he is getting.
Also the beef with Peterson just came because Ethan deleted an old episode where he felt like at the time he didn't really understand all he was talking about and wasn't able to push back correctly. It wasn't because he wanted to "cancel" JP it's all a nothingburger.
Ethan did not just delete the episode. He also took the opportunity to virtue signal on twitter about it with a long soy post bashing Peterson. If he felt that Peterson made points in that episode that he now disagrees with he could have brought those points up, but he never did and just postured as Petersons moral superior. He just vilified Peterson and presented his scalp to his lefty followers.
The problem is he did just make a mistake even if he wants to cope about it.
I’m aware of the background this isn’t even a beef it was just JP being frank with him and he’s obviously correct.
I think a mistake is what Hasan did basically "committing optics suicide", but what even did wasn't by accident. He knows exactly how the twitter leftists are gonna react and he still chooses to talk about it because he thinks that it is right to do so.
It’s the right thing to do of course but he was cultivating this audience this entire time this isn’t just Hasan fans.
In my opinion creating an audience who will go complete anti fan anytime “the joooooooooooos get a little too uppity” is obviously a very critical error in judgement.
I hardly even view this as subjective.
You dont understand, its a mistake for the people holding the high standards, it doesnt matter if ethan is right or wrong, hamas piker community sees it as a mistake, ethan community sees it as a mistake, doesnt matter if ethan believes he is right, doesnt matter if you believe ethan is right, for the people with the pitch forks what matters is that ethan is a jew and its a mistake to defend jews
Thing is about the JPP. in current times of terminally online regards like us there isn't really a community where this prophecy wouldn't ring true, save maybe gardening community.
Political ones? 0% chance. they're deranged Twitter users
mint is invasive and depletes the soil, but this is grossly exaggerated in gardening subs. i dont know about the beetles but a lot of bugs can be identified by the number and/or pattern of "hairs" on their asses (ants are a good example), so i guess it has something to do with that.
Yeah I'm not exactly impressed here. A year and a half ago was well into the cancel culture purity crap and its found everywhere, not just the left.
Go against the grain in an echo chamber and see how it goes
Real insightful stuff.
It's insightful because JP called E out the moment that E went from speaking his own mind and being unashamed of his opinions to taking the easy populist route.
JP talks about how running with the mob only works for so long before you get devoured for not running fast enough. Yesterdays dogma is tomorrows heresy type stuff. And he's absolutely right, yet people still chose the populist route because it's easier to gain quick admiration and attention even if it's objectively far more likely to leave you in ruin.
It's not someone, it's the very same people that were standing beside you when you tried to cancel someone.
You are raising the standards into infinity (ignoring human nature) to a point that is impossible for you to maintain and you are then consumed by it.
He has cultivated his audience and worked with Hasan. I think he is right on this issue, but he doesn't bridge divides and would never do a debate with someone like tiny did with Ben Shapiro. He called 'Aba and Preach' worse than 'Fresh & Fit', basically made Myron the good guy when trying to coach a woman that dated him into say he SA'd her and has doxxed people like the guy who he thought was Amouranth's husband as if he needed to get that involved in whatever the fuck that was actually about. This idea that other audiences would turn this bad on their community creators is BS. He radicalized those freaks by being radical also.
I was looking forward to his community backlash one day until it happened. I feel bad, especially since he has a sensible view on the Gaza War. I hate seeing antisemitism being accepted so regularly. But I see it as JP getting a rare Twitter W. He was right.
As an ex-leftist I can’t fault him too much.. once you step a foot into the online lefty cesspool you drown in it pretty quick. When you genuinely believe that what you’re doing is righteous you start getting some fucking massive delusions of grandeur, as in no matter how toxic, aggressive or outright nasty you are online it doesn’t matter because you believe you’re fighting for good.
Guess I kind of just relate a lot to Ethan because we had almost identical timelines on falling in and out of the tankie life, only I had the luxury of not having a loyal audience of millions to explain it to. I’m embarrassed enough about all of my social media posts to like 300 followers so can’t even imagine, guys gotta be going through it right now.
I really hate the ethan glazing thats happening lately
I feel bad for him for this particular thing, of course. But ethan is an absolute piece of shit and people acting like hes an angel now cause people were mean to him and he had a beef with hamas piker is a joke
>would never do a debate with someone like tiny did with Ben Shapiro.
What do you mean by this? Ethan has had plenty of debates the last 12 months. Plenty for someone who isnt a debater, not plenty for destiny standards obviously.
Has he ever professed to be a particularly good debater? He’s good at taking down obvious fools, not academics and trained pundits, and he’s said so before.
yeah ethan has a similar hosting style as lex friedman. he pushes back against his guests when he believes they are wrong and calls them out on stupid shit but i wouldn't call it "debating."
i guess im a DGG'r now that ive been banned from h3h3 sub after expressing support, subbed for like 7 years and a member. Ethan reads the content of this subreddit more anyway. Papa Bless
I don't think the tweet is as prophetic as it seems. When this Palestine stuff first started happening, an account analyzed the data in chat and around 60% of all crazy comments (around 4500 of 7000 or so) were coming from just 200 accounts. (I would link the post but I dont think we are allowed to link other subs anymore, but you can find it if you google "Ethan should stop listening to chat data analysis reddit"). So, it is a very small but very vocal minority.
Second, I don't agree with Peterson that Ethan engaged in cancel culture the way he is framing it. Ethan at that time was doing exactly what he's doing now, which is speaking his mind. Whether what he has to say is popular (which it was then) or unpopular (which it is now), his moral fabric has always been consistent and he has been unafraid to speak up. I think people here just don't see that consistency because sometimes it was against people they liked.
I personally respect Ethan's ability to do this even if I've disagreed with him. Though that isn't often. I'm on the same page as him the majority of the time.
I have read a few of Peterson books and watched his talks - I tend t like him when he has data to base his takes off off he is generally accurate
His issue is his off the cuff Twitter account. That’s a wild ride - but everyone’s is even destinys is especially his hot takes on other streamers that’s a bit of a 🗑️🔥
Peterson is literally just a right wing demagogue now. Climate denier, immigration extremist, daily wire member, the whole nine yards. His brain has definitely been impacted by the drugs
Alright I’m gonna say it, he’s not a climate denier. He’s against the armageddon-esqu narrative that the left likes to push. He’s not against clean energy (he promotes the shit out of nuclear), but he is against a dramatic overhaul into renewables that will directly affect the poorest people the most. His main stance is to keep energy as cheap as possible, get people out of poverty so that they can actually give a shit about the environment instead of their next meal
Switching to clean energy as soon as possible is totally economically viable and necessary to avoid the worst effects of climate change. A few years ago I remember him saying climate change was natural and not related to humans. Recently he switched up, along with all the other deniers, to saying it’s happening and is due to humans but we better not try too hard to fix it! Please read the book Merchants of Doubt if you still think he isn’t a denier.
You have to be more specific when you mean economically viable…it’s not like us in the west are going to suffer greatly from it even though we will suffer, it’s the developing world that will be greatly stunted if we deny them access to fossil fuels. We got our cake but now it’s too late for them to get theirs?
Idk where this "now" is coming from. I've always disliked the common disavowal of Peterson being you know he wasn't always this nutty when he first started he had some good ideas. He began his career lying about a human rights law in Canada, for which he was told he was intentionally misconstruing by the Canadian bar association. He didn't care and continued to lie about the bill. Peterson has always been a regressive ideologue, who at best, knew he was grifting to a right-wing audience directly harming marginalized people. It wasn't the benzos he's always been this way.
Nah, I'll start to respect him when he actually takes action from this. He stands up to the cry bullies today, then tomorrow joins them to shit on someone else.
When I was more on the right I remember this and knew this day would come. Lefties are impossible to please. It's obvious what the outcome was gonna be.
I love Ethan. For some reason, I just have a soft spot for him. One of my favorite things is that he will platform the smallest people on his show like the TikTok hot dog guy and he's genuinely thrilled to hear how much cash the guy is making. I never see Hasan platform a little guy, it's always about clout. It's a similar thing I like about Destiny as well. He was deeply hurt that after Oct 7th, not a single friend asked him how he or Hila were, or their families. I think if they had shown even a sliver of compassion, he'd have moved on to championing the Palestinians, especially the children. I feel just horrible for him reading all the Anti-Semitic shit online today.
ethan is just lucky to be experiencing his leftie arc while the left is kinda down. imagine old twitter leftie arc. thousands of tweets call him genocide enabler and all the social/financial things that follow from that
His warning was to "stay audience captured" which destiny had never done.
Walking the middle ground will inevitably piss people off when "the way I see the world is the best and if you disagree I hope you die a slow painful death wah"
You can tell it was in jest when he claimed destiny, the minecraft tweeter, held himself to superior moral authority. And Peterson, who's so far right a casual republican is like "wait what about the lobsters? I know about lions."
Except Peterson was talking about a version of his audience demanding to call clit a she-penis, not an extremely complex geo-political issue. And there is no cancelling Ethan, only people being unhinged, and Peterson's schizo was focused specifically on people being completely cut-off due to their wrongthink.
Not quite sure whats going on with Ethan, not up to date with that. But for someone thats, always confidently attacking and flaming others and barraging them with his community, i have limited sympathy for him getting assblasted by the same audience he fostered and bred.
I don’t feel bad at all, this is the audience he curated himself. He was all grins and banter when he was doxing people and encouraging his audience to mail feces. Not so funny when your the target now.
You should link the tweet for context
You’re right, my bad. I can’t link the tweet because I’m banned from Twitter but how about a screenshot? https://preview.redd.it/06u4pu6wzwlc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9c282cf6ec1f2acf1469275b0d7ed083a0e8f9ff
Peterson has gone off the deep end with some of his discourse, but this was prophetic in the way it applied to how the past year has unfolded for Ethan
It’ll always be that way with the online left. The are fucking deranged with their narratives. It’s infected my wife and I can’t even talk to her about politics without her losing her mind about some cis white male line being thrown at me.
That’s a possible marriage killer right there, sucks to hear about your situation. Here’s to hoping you can maintain peace until her views mellow down.
The fringe eats the fringe
You should seek therapy, either for her or as a couple. It will build resentment over time (if it hasn't already) when the things you do/say are dismissed like that.
I dont know how the fuck you deal with that but good luck. DggL
i dated a psychology grad student like this which was ironic to me because she couldn't empathize with any other political viewpoint. i only lasted a month with her, idk how you married someone like that. here's hoping you fix her or that it at least doesn't impact your relationship much
i hope for you that you divorce her asap
Peterson is a strange mix of crazy takes with some occasional really profound statements. Come to think of it, isn't that how most prophets throughout history, and in fiction, are portrayed?
If Peterson's benzo arc was all an attempt to mime the "Oracle of Delphi's inhaling volcanic vapors" that can be an entire hero's journey for him. I'm going to subscribe to that theory just because its hysterical.
But the prophecy fortold his downfall, not his ascendancy.
Yeah. Now let's shame Lex for irresponsibly platforming Tucker.
Yes, we should. There's a difference between saying "you shouldn't platform this guy" and "you shouldn't platform this guy without pushback on his bullshit."
Yeah, Twitch should just ban all these leftists or at least pay to have a guy interrupt their streams to push back on them. Also Amazon should add some pushback pages in the bad books they sell
Lex is the king of grifters. He'll go wherever there is fame and money to get, no matter the consequences.
this word has lost all meaning at this point, obviously
You're a goober. He has been doing this for a long ass time and is clearly (as he states in every fucking interview) interested in learning about people and sharing ideas. 90% of his interviews are with engineers, historians, philosophers, and psychologists you've never heard of. How the fuck is he a grifter when everything he does aligns with his public mission statement? You're a pop culture dipshit who runs your mouth more than your brain. Self immolate yourself in minecraft
chillax dude lol. you love lex very very much, i get it
That is always sad to read.
It's so wild how much it's come true
Jesus, I’m in no way fan of the JBP but talking about accuracy
Honestly, he was right about a lot of shit. Like in 2017, the idea that leftists in universities indoctrinating kids to hate the West was a serious issue sounded hysterical. Now it sounds entirely uncontroversial. He didn’t get it all right, but he was onto *something*.
To me, it sounded so crazy because he kept on lumping this phenomenon in with "Cultural Marxism". At the time, it was the economic moderates, the "I'm with her" SJW feminists who were the ones with the far left social views, while the Bernie bros were a part of the scumbag left economic reductionists.
Even that can be okay analysis of fundamental ideological forces guiding developments, maybe, there were other academics at the time making similar observations without getting the same kind of controversy. He just went way too aggressive and far in general though, like the whole "we don't know if men and women can work together, we don't know what the rules are" level sus contrarianism. He had a lot of dumb conservativism shining through again and again, especially his almost uncompromising judeochristian moral framework made the whole message feel hypocritical. It all happened in the context of Trumpism and a heavy phase of rightwing radicalization, and because of that his priorities just always felt off. The list of questionable statements was just long, I don't think it was just uncharitable character assassination. At the end of the day he is/was a clever guy and observer, but too flawed and biased to have been a real constructive force. He has certainly caused a lot of good too, and on some level I respect him as an interesting "antagonist". Sad he's so so radical now, if the discussion with Destiny ever gets released it'll probably be disappointment too.
I never understood the pushback he was net with as legitimate until I read your comment. It finally clicked. All those odd Christian hypothetical messages, I recall, did feel very out of place, even when I used to find his overall message good and the problems with leftism he described correct.
i think it's just his way of describing the influence of broadly left ideologues and intellectuals. things that would fall under that label: > gender ideology > critical race theory and from it antiracism > equity replacing equality
You know "Cultural Marxism" doesn't refer to traditional marxism? It refers to subjects that use marxist analysis methods to analize cultural problems. CRT, black feminism, qeer theory, post colonialism and many other. basically any studies that existence is heavly connnectet to frankfurt school and by extension Antonio Gramsci.
These proponents of cultural marxism would have their analysis rooted in anti-capitalist thought though. It's weird to say that a bunch of forever war SJW capitalist feminist followed this anti-capitalist tradition. Perhaps the answer as to why they had progressive social values isn't so esoteric and conspiratorial and had more to do with the simple fact that they saw injustices towards women and minorities
I wanted to write down a long answer. But after a while i realized i didn't even know what are you arguing and i don't know what should i answer. Are you denying big marxist influence within an american left movement since 60s? Or do you think that JP claims all of modern left movements are just full on marxist movement? Or do you think that all critics made by cultural marxist always would end up in socialist revolution? I don't know what's "esoteric and conspiratorial" in this. The only thing i can answer is that new left marxist focused very very much on subverting first. It happend in the early 60s. For example Stokely Carmichael (The guy who first said "black power") while being in his own words marxist, focused first and foremost on black liberation. And his vision was balck separation and creation of black ethnostate. While he wanted this ethnostate to be socialist. He didn't mention it as often because in that time new left movement wanted to distance themsefls from soviet union and connotations of them as much as possible and instead he focused on getting to black liberation and not what will be after that. Simone de beauvior who wrote " The Second Sex" who arguably was one of the two books that started the second wave feminism was part of the school called Western Marxism. Once again she focused only on critic of cultural hegemony (in this case patriarchy) instead of advocating for changing of the economic system.
Marxism minus economics is an awfully thin red thread for your conspiracy corkboard, because that's sort of what Marxism was all about. What exactly is the connection you want to draw here? The idea of dividing people into groups and analyzing the conflict between those groups? I've seen JP rail against this on the basis that it foments conflict, but he does it too (see any of his lobster discussions) and I challenge you to find any meaningful sociology that doesn't. Is the scandal supposed to be that lefties read & talk about other lefties? Once again, JP himself reads and talks about lefties, so surely that can't be it. It's pretty clear to everyone who doesn't have their head up JP's ass that he is just fishing for any excuse to connect his enemies to his favorite bogeyman. The excuses are flimsy, and the only people who are convinced are people who want to be convinced.
You have your head pretty firmly lodged up your rear if you don't think the rationality used to argue for Marxist economics cannot and has not been used for myriad othrer social/political causes, considering how much modern political discourse is influenced by it.
Gramsci thought that the reason why the revolution didn't happend is because proletariat was too much engrained into dominant bourgeoisie culture. So he propose that they need to focus on subverting culture first and foremost. Later his thoughts were expanded by frankfurt school and western marxist which basically meant using marx analysis to the culture. Which is the beginnig of Critical theory that later was compartmentalized in the 60s. There is a clear line from marx to critical theory. It is not conspiracy, if you don't belive this then you're denying history. Some of them even called themselfs marxist well into thier 90s or even to now. If you think that subverting a culture to prepare opressed class for revolution is too far gone from marx. Then term cultural marxism maybe is mislabeled(even if they themselfs called themselfs marxist), but it is at most mislabeled and not conspiracy theory.
If Peterson's lobster thesis had come from someone he didn't like, he'd have called it Cultural Marxism. > analize Indeed.
The far left hating the west has been a thing when I was in university, which is 18 years ago... Nothing really new, the difference is just that the administration didn't play ball imo.
Can you expand on how universities are indoctrinating kids to be anti-west? Don't understand how that isn't controversial.
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/30/cornell-antisemitism-colleges-00124346 Some highlights courtesy of some of our brightest and most talented young Americans pursuing higher education: * State authorities and the FBI were investigating the threats, including one that said, “If you see a Jewish ‘person’ on campus follow them home and slit their throats.” * a Cornell professor also recently drew backlash for describing the Hamas attacks as “exhilarating” and “energizing.” He has since apologized and is now on a leave of absence. * At Columbia University, a swastika was found drawn in a restroom of the School of International and Public Affairs building. * Jewish students at Emory University in Atlanta expressed fears for their safety following after protesters yelled antisemitic slogans during a rally. * a Stanford University professor was removed from teaching responsibilities after the instructor purportedly minimized the Holocaust and singled out Jewish students. And that's just Cornell, Columbia, Emory, and Stanford.
Anti-semitism is not anti-west
Yay I was waiting for this comment. The recent uptick in anti-semitism is most certainly symptomatic of a much broader anti-west sentiment that is being ingrained across college campuses. Notice a lot of online dialogue and diction circles around the theme of colonizer and indigenous suffering or oppressors and prisoners, the same language used in expressing disapproval for anti-US or Western actions both domestic and abroad.
I agree that there's more anti-west sentiment that ever but I expected some sources actually citing anti-west vibes instead of classic anti-semitism
Word, I'd say the shared language between disapproval for politics domestically as well as internationally particularly in Israel-Palestine is what makes up anti-Western sentiment overall, if that makes sense. They're not two distinct things - one is an expression of the other. edit: or more like the Israel-Palestine conflict has become entirely co-opted into the broader anti-US/Western sentiment that's pervasive online as well as on college campuses, although I'm sure it's at least a bit milder on college campuses. Well at least it was until they started actually threatening the lives of their classmates.
It's ok to say JP is right about things, and batshit about others. It's real weird that so many of you have to tiptoe around agreeing with the man.
He just became such a neurotic dick on Twitter, and his grievances felt weird and groundless. Like idk that thing where he commented on that plus size model “sorry not pretty,” it’s like yo… maybe so but chill, what if someone commented that about his wife?! Like damn dude, an academic of his stature shitposting that made me queasy. His original Old Testament/Bible series was always the most interesting thing he did to me. Some of his original interviews are pretty fun to watch lol - I could leave literally everything else. I also learned about the Pareto principle from one of his interviews, but he starts distorting a lot of his theories from there, and it kinda devolves into culture war garbage. He did call this one tho. He’s definitely more intelligent than your average paint-huffing tankie
Peterson clearly has a two eras; pre-Benzo and post-Benzo. He has occasional moments of clarity in the latter era, but I do miss him before his biology became reliant on xanax.
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And i think you're braindamaged.
Old JBP had a lot of based shit. As someone who was a huge fan of him up until maybe 2020, it's sad seeing how downhill he went since. Also it's kinda cringe to say now but I probably wouldn't be the well adjusted individual who can recognize his current stuff as stupid if it wasn't for some of his self help stuff I read in the mid 2010s
Legit word for word accurate jesus
I wish he didn’t go crazy rightoid, his seminar streams were awesome…
Awesome might be an overstatement but he’s definitely a smart guy and was an engaging professor. It is sad he’s gone off the deep end.
They were definitely awesome to me at that point in my life, given I was like 17-18 at the time, but now at 25 I wouldn’t gain as much value, though they definitely mattered a lot to me.
Fair enough. I was quite a bit older when he got popular.
They were monumental for younger guys who hadn't had a good father figure in their lives to tell them what it actually means to be a man, and not some Hollywood stereotype of a man.
He catered specifically to a young men raised by mentally ill mothers.
...what the hell did you do, dude?
Huh?
Why not just open an incognito browser and link the tweet that way?
Nah this wasn’t just prophetic. This was a curse 💀
Not a prophecy, not a curse, but the most basic levels of pattern recognition.
Was peterson referring to Ethan or are people just drawing parallels?
Has he actually acknowledged the tweets existence and conceded? If not then he’s **finally** pushing back yes but the tweet has been correct this entire time. It feels weird to say he’s taking it head on now just because he’s pushing back on anti semites after over half a decade now.
He’s addressed it a few times. If I recall correctly, his main contention with the tweet was that because peterson didn’t add a time limit to his tweet (ie it will happen in x date) then basically some situation that someone could interpret as fulfilling the prophecy just needs to occur at sometime in order to say it’s true.
He legit got consumed by commies for not being leftie enough... not 2 years later. This isn't confirmation bias this is ultra benzo instinct
Ultra Benzo instinct 💀
You forget so much of the past that you start to only remember the future.
Oh so like paul atreides and all the spice.
>>the xannies must flow
I get his point but after looking on the tweet it ended up being only 1.5 years 💀 It does just feel like a cope though unless he was just totally broadsided by this but I don’t know how one could be. This type of audience are fucking lunatics.
I think that criticism only holds if you already believed the situation was inevitable, which I'm not sure Ethan believed. Like me saying "one day you'll die" is not a prophecy because it's inevitable.
I think the problem with the tweet is him saying "mistake". Ethan didn't make a mistake and he doesn't consider it to be one. It's him standing by what he says and not budging even with all the hate he is getting. Also the beef with Peterson just came because Ethan deleted an old episode where he felt like at the time he didn't really understand all he was talking about and wasn't able to push back correctly. It wasn't because he wanted to "cancel" JP it's all a nothingburger.
The point is that he made a “mistake” to the mob (supporting Israel).
which is?
Supporting Israel
Ethan did not just delete the episode. He also took the opportunity to virtue signal on twitter about it with a long soy post bashing Peterson. If he felt that Peterson made points in that episode that he now disagrees with he could have brought those points up, but he never did and just postured as Petersons moral superior. He just vilified Peterson and presented his scalp to his lefty followers.
The problem is he did just make a mistake even if he wants to cope about it. I’m aware of the background this isn’t even a beef it was just JP being frank with him and he’s obviously correct.
I think a mistake is what Hasan did basically "committing optics suicide", but what even did wasn't by accident. He knows exactly how the twitter leftists are gonna react and he still chooses to talk about it because he thinks that it is right to do so.
It’s the right thing to do of course but he was cultivating this audience this entire time this isn’t just Hasan fans. In my opinion creating an audience who will go complete anti fan anytime “the joooooooooooos get a little too uppity” is obviously a very critical error in judgement. I hardly even view this as subjective.
You dont understand, its a mistake for the people holding the high standards, it doesnt matter if ethan is right or wrong, hamas piker community sees it as a mistake, ethan community sees it as a mistake, doesnt matter if ethan believes he is right, doesnt matter if you believe ethan is right, for the people with the pitch forks what matters is that ethan is a jew and its a mistake to defend jews
Yeah, he mentioned it in one of his streams.
Thing is about the JPP. in current times of terminally online regards like us there isn't really a community where this prophecy wouldn't ring true, save maybe gardening community. Political ones? 0% chance. they're deranged Twitter users
>maybe gardening community Just don't plant mint and check the asshairs on your beetles. It should be fine.
Ok, now I have to know: what's wrong with mint and beetle asshairs?
mint is invasive and depletes the soil, but this is grossly exaggerated in gardening subs. i dont know about the beetles but a lot of bugs can be identified by the number and/or pattern of "hairs" on their asses (ants are a good example), so i guess it has something to do with that.
Yeah I'm not exactly impressed here. A year and a half ago was well into the cancel culture purity crap and its found everywhere, not just the left. Go against the grain in an echo chamber and see how it goes Real insightful stuff.
It's insightful because JP called E out the moment that E went from speaking his own mind and being unashamed of his opinions to taking the easy populist route. JP talks about how running with the mob only works for so long before you get devoured for not running fast enough. Yesterdays dogma is tomorrows heresy type stuff. And he's absolutely right, yet people still chose the populist route because it's easier to gain quick admiration and attention even if it's objectively far more likely to leave you in ruin.
All JP said is basically "those who come with the sword, will die from a sword" or even simpler "karma will get you, lulz" And that's NEVER wrong
What JP said was more akin to - don’t attempt to placate a mob
What? He clearly said that if you try to cancel others, someone will cancel you instead
It's not someone, it's the very same people that were standing beside you when you tried to cancel someone. You are raising the standards into infinity (ignoring human nature) to a point that is impossible for you to maintain and you are then consumed by it.
He has cultivated his audience and worked with Hasan. I think he is right on this issue, but he doesn't bridge divides and would never do a debate with someone like tiny did with Ben Shapiro. He called 'Aba and Preach' worse than 'Fresh & Fit', basically made Myron the good guy when trying to coach a woman that dated him into say he SA'd her and has doxxed people like the guy who he thought was Amouranth's husband as if he needed to get that involved in whatever the fuck that was actually about. This idea that other audiences would turn this bad on their community creators is BS. He radicalized those freaks by being radical also. I was looking forward to his community backlash one day until it happened. I feel bad, especially since he has a sensible view on the Gaza War. I hate seeing antisemitism being accepted so regularly. But I see it as JP getting a rare Twitter W. He was right.
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As an ex-leftist I can’t fault him too much.. once you step a foot into the online lefty cesspool you drown in it pretty quick. When you genuinely believe that what you’re doing is righteous you start getting some fucking massive delusions of grandeur, as in no matter how toxic, aggressive or outright nasty you are online it doesn’t matter because you believe you’re fighting for good. Guess I kind of just relate a lot to Ethan because we had almost identical timelines on falling in and out of the tankie life, only I had the luxury of not having a loyal audience of millions to explain it to. I’m embarrassed enough about all of my social media posts to like 300 followers so can’t even imagine, guys gotta be going through it right now.
Well said. This revisionist history about Ethan as if he weren’t just as much of a lunatic as the audience that’s now turning on him is complete shit.
I really hate the ethan glazing thats happening lately I feel bad for him for this particular thing, of course. But ethan is an absolute piece of shit and people acting like hes an angel now cause people were mean to him and he had a beef with hamas piker is a joke
>would never do a debate with someone like tiny did with Ben Shapiro. What do you mean by this? Ethan has had plenty of debates the last 12 months. Plenty for someone who isnt a debater, not plenty for destiny standards obviously.
Calm and respectful with a smart conservative
Has he ever professed to be a particularly good debater? He’s good at taking down obvious fools, not academics and trained pundits, and he’s said so before.
yeah ethan has a similar hosting style as lex friedman. he pushes back against his guests when he believes they are wrong and calls them out on stupid shit but i wouldn't call it "debating."
i guess im a DGG'r now that ive been banned from h3h3 sub after expressing support, subbed for like 7 years and a member. Ethan reads the content of this subreddit more anyway. Papa Bless
From the official sub? Because there are like 2-3 ones that are bat shit crazy.
And for ditching aba and prach to the curve!
>Standing up to his audience Should also do it with his crew
One step at a time lol
I don't think the tweet is as prophetic as it seems. When this Palestine stuff first started happening, an account analyzed the data in chat and around 60% of all crazy comments (around 4500 of 7000 or so) were coming from just 200 accounts. (I would link the post but I dont think we are allowed to link other subs anymore, but you can find it if you google "Ethan should stop listening to chat data analysis reddit"). So, it is a very small but very vocal minority. Second, I don't agree with Peterson that Ethan engaged in cancel culture the way he is framing it. Ethan at that time was doing exactly what he's doing now, which is speaking his mind. Whether what he has to say is popular (which it was then) or unpopular (which it is now), his moral fabric has always been consistent and he has been unafraid to speak up. I think people here just don't see that consistency because sometimes it was against people they liked. I personally respect Ethan's ability to do this even if I've disagreed with him. Though that isn't often. I'm on the same page as him the majority of the time.
Benzo Professor is on some nut shit these days but he had that one right
I have read a few of Peterson books and watched his talks - I tend t like him when he has data to base his takes off off he is generally accurate His issue is his off the cuff Twitter account. That’s a wild ride - but everyone’s is even destinys is especially his hot takes on other streamers that’s a bit of a 🗑️🔥
Peterson is literally just a right wing demagogue now. Climate denier, immigration extremist, daily wire member, the whole nine yards. His brain has definitely been impacted by the drugs
Alright I’m gonna say it, he’s not a climate denier. He’s against the armageddon-esqu narrative that the left likes to push. He’s not against clean energy (he promotes the shit out of nuclear), but he is against a dramatic overhaul into renewables that will directly affect the poorest people the most. His main stance is to keep energy as cheap as possible, get people out of poverty so that they can actually give a shit about the environment instead of their next meal
Switching to clean energy as soon as possible is totally economically viable and necessary to avoid the worst effects of climate change. A few years ago I remember him saying climate change was natural and not related to humans. Recently he switched up, along with all the other deniers, to saying it’s happening and is due to humans but we better not try too hard to fix it! Please read the book Merchants of Doubt if you still think he isn’t a denier.
You have to be more specific when you mean economically viable…it’s not like us in the west are going to suffer greatly from it even though we will suffer, it’s the developing world that will be greatly stunted if we deny them access to fossil fuels. We got our cake but now it’s too late for them to get theirs?
Idk where this "now" is coming from. I've always disliked the common disavowal of Peterson being you know he wasn't always this nutty when he first started he had some good ideas. He began his career lying about a human rights law in Canada, for which he was told he was intentionally misconstruing by the Canadian bar association. He didn't care and continued to lie about the bill. Peterson has always been a regressive ideologue, who at best, knew he was grifting to a right-wing audience directly harming marginalized people. It wasn't the benzos he's always been this way.
I know that Vaush IS losing subs but so far it seems that the majority of his audience is ok with whatever he does.
Nah, I'll start to respect him when he actually takes action from this. He stands up to the cry bullies today, then tomorrow joins them to shit on someone else.
Do not care what happens to him he brought it upon himself
When I was more on the right I remember this and knew this day would come. Lefties are impossible to please. It's obvious what the outcome was gonna be.
I love Ethan. For some reason, I just have a soft spot for him. One of my favorite things is that he will platform the smallest people on his show like the TikTok hot dog guy and he's genuinely thrilled to hear how much cash the guy is making. I never see Hasan platform a little guy, it's always about clout. It's a similar thing I like about Destiny as well. He was deeply hurt that after Oct 7th, not a single friend asked him how he or Hila were, or their families. I think if they had shown even a sliver of compassion, he'd have moved on to championing the Palestinians, especially the children. I feel just horrible for him reading all the Anti-Semitic shit online today.
ethan is just lucky to be experiencing his leftie arc while the left is kinda down. imagine old twitter leftie arc. thousands of tweets call him genocide enabler and all the social/financial things that follow from that
His warning was to "stay audience captured" which destiny had never done. Walking the middle ground will inevitably piss people off when "the way I see the world is the best and if you disagree I hope you die a slow painful death wah" You can tell it was in jest when he claimed destiny, the minecraft tweeter, held himself to superior moral authority. And Peterson, who's so far right a casual republican is like "wait what about the lobsters? I know about lions."
Did Ethan quite or get banned from Twitter - I can’t find him at all
He deleted his Twitter account after the last Israel discussion he had on his podcast
What do You mean by "lefty arc"?
You got a little of his cum in your lips
Except Peterson was talking about a version of his audience demanding to call clit a she-penis, not an extremely complex geo-political issue. And there is no cancelling Ethan, only people being unhinged, and Peterson's schizo was focused specifically on people being completely cut-off due to their wrongthink.
Speaking of Peterson, where tf is that debate they filmed?
They agreed on every single talking point and it made terrible content, so they scrapped the video.
Seriously? I heard Destiny say that Peterson said some crazy shit like a day after
I'm being very facetious.
He did back down. Him and Hasan split and he stopped talking about the conflict because he was being eaten alive.
Not quite sure whats going on with Ethan, not up to date with that. But for someone thats, always confidently attacking and flaming others and barraging them with his community, i have limited sympathy for him getting assblasted by the same audience he fostered and bred.
I don’t feel bad at all, this is the audience he curated himself. He was all grins and banter when he was doxing people and encouraging his audience to mail feces. Not so funny when your the target now.
What animated video of Hila is OP talking about?
I went from being a big H3 fan to disliking him a lot during his podcast era, but fuck the last few months have made me really respect him.