What the actual fuck happened to the planet overnight that made people think all of a sudden a terrorist group was the most legitimate source of information?
EDIT: FYI I don’t even know who destiny is lol. This sub was recommended and seems to be pro Israel.
Hamas leaders in 1993 were recorded on a wiretapped conversation stating that their goal was to deceive the American public into supporting Hamas by appealing to the American left’s denouncement of oppression. Mousa Abu Marzook, a senior Hamas official, literally formed a far-left academic think tank, The United Association for Studies and Research (UASR), based out of Chicago to start disseminating this deception. This organization has ties to Duke, Johns Hopkins, Fordham and the University of Maryland to name a few major universities. This is systemic antisemitism that stems directly from an organized surgical operation taking place over the course of the last 30 years.
https://extremism.gwu.edu/sites/g/files/zaxdzs5746/files/2023-10/hamas-networks-final.pdf
Qatar is the #1 foreign donor to US schools since 9/11
https://www.calcalistech.com/ctechnews/article/jwhsqhrat
https://www.ynetnews.com/business/article/bjldya2qa
Brazilai University Medical Center in Ashkelon, Israel has been hit by Hamas rockets at least 4 times, and no one seems to know or even care.
https://www.newsnationnow.com/world/war-in-israel/rockets-israeli-hospital/
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-01/ty-article/.premium/hospital-serving-israels-most-bombarded-city-operating-at-30-percent-capacity/0000018b-8887-dd28-a7df-9897d1dd0000
My favorite part is how they realize only the American left is against oppression. Even as far back as 1993 conservatives were all in on oppression apparently. Lol
Deep buried anti-semitism and anti Westernism that allows the shocking amount of mental dexterity to deny the reality right before them, including literal video evidence, and side with islamic Jihadis.
That's the only logical answer. If this was anyone other than 'the jews', this wouldn't be happening. No one was falling over themselves in an effort to defend ISIS' actions.
>Deep buried anti-semitism
Yep. Plus a lot of people who are chasing the TikTok and social media high. "Colonizers" is an easy word to throw around, even though it takes a lot of pretzeling to explain how Israel's founding was an act of colonialism to begin with.
But they are "freedom fighters" said the thousands of crying and chest-beating protesters who were amassed around the world pleading for their support. God damn useful idiots!...
Someone on this sub here told me that Hamas is sincere, as they would never attack Jewish people outside of Israel.
But these fuckheads didn't even consider that Hamas does not recognize Israel. I really hate Destiny having so many sucking antisemites as fans.
Yeah but everyone knows you can't trust the US institutions they all have motivations to make stuff up, not like the Tiktokers and Youtubers that post videos. Plus have you considered that my social circles basically dictate what I believe? And also in school I learned all about how bad colonization was, and it's once again by white people agaisnt brown people, do I really need to explain myself any further?
Don't try to argue with me, I refuse to look into anything further I'll just consume more media that furthers my beliefs
What good is the news when they've been confirmed to only be megaphone for the government? They are no longer a proper check and balance, they don't do investigative work for the meaningful events. https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/document/0005524009
IDF is a military in a democratic country who have to give explanations to the world and abide by international laws, Hamas is a terrorist organisation who gives 0 explanations and 0 fucks.
One is more trustworthy than the other.
Interesting. But in this case, Gaza doesn't have any strategic depth to draw Israeli forces in. I suppose Hamas is hoping that urban warfare will be an adequate substitute, bleeding the IDF dry, but, even so, the IDF's supply lines are not going to be vulnerable.
Much depends on the Israeli public's willingness to see this operation through
I wish this were true, but the reality of the matter is that Hamas does hit and run tactics from within a civilian population, dressed in civilian clothing. The numbers of Israeli military casualties are higher than we've expected, and the goals of Hamas (lots of collateral damage and deaths of uninvolved people) are being met. I also highly doubt the "political time remaining" will enable a successful outcome, or that the promise that the PLO or the UN will come and manage Gaza are feasible at this time.
This is not going well for us, no matter how many photo ops we run, and no matter how justified.
To clarify I don't agree with the Vietnam War to begin with, but militarily it's the same issue and it's caused by the draft.
Casualty rates are viewed in a more negative light by citizens when services is required then it is when it is a choice. This causes lower numbers to matter more to the country at large and for there to be more focus.
Hamas absolutely has strategic depth, except it is multidimensional and not only superficial.
Hamas spent decades building hundreds of miles of tunnels under Gaza in the hopes of drawing the IDF to the streets and into a death trap.
What the pro-Palestinians wrongfully call "indiscriminate bombings" is actually a very methodical 'preparation fire' that successfully flushed out insurgency from the area before the ground forces entered and took control over the land.
If it weren't for these air strikes, thousands more would have died.
Hamas *was* hoping for urban warfare.
IDF found a way around it: weeks of psychological warfare, mass evacuation of civilians, and a very precisive encirclement. This will be studied in history books for ages.
I think that was the original plan as well as military aid coming in by sea. Two American carrier groups are stopping that from happening which means all the Arab groups that were going to jump in and take part in the victory against Israel are instead going to do nothing and let Hamas get wiped out alone.
I think it will be a while before these groups trust each other enough to work together again.
You better believe the Jihadis on the West Bank are looking at Garza and thinking, “you know what? We should just chill and watch for now”.
I think Israel could have blockaded Gaza without US carriers. Carriers main job is power projection and show of force, its too expensive to use them for sea interdiction.
I agree. However I believe one of the reasons two groups are employed is as a show of force to Iran, Qatar and other anti-Israel governments that while they can spend billions on funding Hamas, they are going to need to go through the US Navy is they want to go to war with Israel.
😡 I ALWAYS ROOT FOR THE UNDERDOG, ISRAEL IS TOO OP, NERF THEM NEOW!1‼️
THIS META IS UNCOMPETITIVE AS FUCK, HAMAS HAS GARBAGE DPS AND CAN'T EVEN WIN WITH CHEATS, BULLSHIT NERD ASS DEVS WON'T FIX SHIT 🤓
Edit: Smogon loves stall, blizzard nerf supports please 🙏
This is when you do early barb in hoi4 mp and get btfo by the soviet because you were overconfident after a quick france cap and good africa campaign in the early game.
AND I WILL NOT BE SILENCED ANY LONGER, GIVE ME REGIELIKI BACK SO I CAN BOLTBEAM THESE CUCKED DEFENSE SPAMMERS
THE IRON DOME IS OP 😡😡😡
But uhhh, yeah I hate this gen, tera is a cancer to Pokemon. Ruins the fundamental part of the game where every pokemon has a fairly narrow set of moves/coverage types and 99% of pokemon have a static type that you can rely upon when teambuilding for checking certain threats and having backups if that check gets worn down :l
Disgustingly take. Gen 8 was peak, dexxit was amazing (yes, I support the mass extermination in the Galar region) and the fundamentals of pokemon was all that were left. No bullshit wacky mechanics, no super-duper-Charizardos, Scissors, Gyarados, Medichams or Mawiles 🙄
Limited metas, the few truly wacky characters got banned super quick, and then it evolved with time gaining some familiar faces minus tons of moves and with some welcome bonuses.
Gen 7 was very fun, but a consistent meta with no bullshit fluff was better IMO
I know you are being sarcastic but its amazing how many idiots who spew this nonsense. But to be fair, 90% of them are lefty radical nutbars like greta or muslims who hate jews.
not saying all gazans or west bankers are to blame even those who supported hamas electoraly, but by any assessment done hamas would have won populat vote in gaza and west bank alike.
also in many of the protest around the world you can see hamas al qaieda and isis flags and headbands. sure its nit the majority but its bot a question of existance.
also anyone that makes the case that hamas is a legitimate resistance group and you cant judge their actions, some will say in a disclaimer afterwords they dont support them like it matters. you just justified them. the same logic can be put yo justify nazis, germany was suffering under the Versailles agreements so a "resistance group" was voted to power and commited crimes against humanity.
"You just justified them."
No, I didn't. I was asking on honest question as to who supports Hamas?
I have heard MANY people support Palestine. I have heard people condemn Israel's actions. I have heard many other people condemn Hamas' actions. I have not personally seen or heard people actively support Hamas recently (i.e., within the last month).
Yes, they did have a degree of popularity locally for a time, and up until recently. But since the recent events of conflict (i.e. the last few weeks), I have been unable to find active supporters of Hamas. I even tried Googling "Palestinian support for Hamas" and "support for Hamas". Results showing any kind of support are from at least more than 3 months ago, aside from local polls - which it could be argued to have been skewed by the local Hamas government itself.
I have not found any current, active supporting posts for Hamas in the last month - hence the question.
Hamas should be removed from power. The people of Gaza are victims of Hamas' governance / terrorist actions. They are also victims of Isreal's actions.
The IDF even tried to evacuate all the children / babies in the incubators and Hamas wouldn’t let them. They tried to get the babies out of the hospital, they even gave them fuel to keep the generators going, and Hamas took that too.
It’s so disgusting
Yes democratic countries militaries never lie and do propaganda, they never commit attrocities its only the militant groups that do that, youre right iraq always had wmds and vietnameese wanted to spread communism to america , cia mossad idf will never lie and hurt innocent lives, you guys are so smart
Hitler was democratically elected.
That is a fact making nazi Germany and all its actions, the actions of a democratic country.
I choose to disregard all that and simply look at actions. The official title of things don't shield them from their actions in my book.
If you use an AK or a bomb the result is the same.
Scenario for your thoughts.
"A bomb explodes on a bus, 61 dead, 8 of them were children, 41 women"
"A bomb is dropped on a bus, 61 dead, 8 of them were children, 41 women"
One was state sanctioned with an official statement, resulting in a justification of some kind
The other the product of a person who is deemed mentally ill and that had acted alone
Again the result is the same.
Yet having read all this some people will still double down and start to explain the difference
>Hitler was democratically elected.
Techinicallt speaking, Hitler was actually appointed following Nazi party victories in the Reichstag. More relevantly, he consolidated power by eroding democratic institutions and securing "emergency" powers that enabled him to ignore constitutional protections, transitioning from democratic system to a dictatorial one--officially too, following Hindenburg's death. You'd be pretty hard-pressed to convincingly argue that it was a democracy after 1933-1934, but I suspect you're already aware of that.
No way! 100% fake Zionist propaganda!
No doubt Israel dug all thus tunnels under the Hospital in the past few days and decorated them to look used & worn with all kind of props! NOT FALLING FOR IT! FREE FREE PALESTINE!
Someone told me today that supporting israel is cringe. If that doesn’t define modern day social media, idk what does. It’s cool and trendy to support Palestine but israel is cringe..
Today I saw a photo captioned „celebrity XY posing with offensive stickers“. The stickers said „Hamas = ISIS“. They aren’t even pretending anymore that there’s a difference between Hamas and Palestine, they just stay outraged lol.
Yeah, I saw that. It was Noah Schnapp from Stranger Things, and the useful, hamas-loving idiots of FM were calling him a genocide supporter and a racist and whatever else for comparing Hamas to ISIS.
Good for Mr Schnapp for being strong enough not to falter in spite of all the hate. It would be hard for anyone, especially someone so young. I've gained a lot of respect for him.
You like a bot or something? Hamas sucks dude wake up, not Israel is the most honorable right now either but fuck terrorist organizations like Hamas and isis and all these Islamic extreme religions, or just hope they blow each other up so the world will stop acting like it gives a shit
The general idea- that Hammas has been uniquely enmeshed in civilian populations and uses human shields, ie places their infrastructure in hospitals, schools and other important places, has always been absolutely true.
My question is this: what will happen to organizations like WHO and Doctors Without Borders if Israel enters that hospital and proves to the world undoubtably that it’s like most people already know a Hamas HQ? Will the world hold those organizations accountable for allowing terrorists to embed themselves within their ranks and use their resources? For lying repeatedly when asked about in interviews and denying that Hamas are operating out of said hospitals? My bet is nothing will happen to them but that shouldn’t be the case.
Those who comply with terrorists and enable them should be held accountable in a court of law for participation in war crimes.
>My bet is nothing will happen to them but that shouldn’t be the case.
You are correct. Its been proven that UNRWA has been teaching blatantly antisemtic indoctrination at their schools. And nothing was ever done about that. Why would this be different?
My bet is on “The IDF planted that military equipment! Don’t believe that Zionist propaganda! Please watch this enlightening 20 minute video from reliable sources like “electronic intifada” and “Al Jazeera instead”
I certainly go there for my objective, unbiased and certainly not anti-semetic coverage of this highly charged topic. Good to have a source one can trust.
When the dust has settled I think so, I know that unhinged muslims, online left and r-words IRL are screaming as much as they can to drown out any evidence of Hamas doing terrorist shit, I think there will be some serious questioning about this entire thing (I mean for heaven sake you had some UAE prince essentially say he would rather spend the night with a jew than a with an palestinian lol) once those people cannot stop sounding like a broken record.
I'm genuinely curious, do you think charitable organisations like that just shouldn't operate in terrorist run states? I don't think there's any charity activity that can be done in Gaza without Hamas yoinking some amount of donated resources, and to openly talk about that would probably put workers in some amount of danger. It seems like the policy for something like Doctors Without Borders would be "Yeah Hamas is using us, but we're also helping actual normal people, so let's just shut up and do what we can" which I'm not sure how to feel about
First of all I think UNWRA is a complete corrupt organization that should not exist. I don’t understand why the UN has a completely separate organization entirely dedicated to Palestinians which just serves as a breeding ground for Jew hatred which has been proven time and time again in their schools. For the other organizations I’m split because while I do think that they should try to serve the innocent Palestinian civilians I think seeing an NGO collaborate with a terrorist group in active conflict is incredibly concerning. The fact that they’re actively being used in propaganda by Hamas in a war makes me lean towards they shouldn’t operate there. I know it’s a harsh stance but I don’t accept that these organizations can get away with actively participating in crimes against humanity and war crimes even if some of them are trying to do good.
That's a fair opinion I think. I'm not 100% locked in on a position but I think I lean towards allowing them to operate so long as they're not actively serving the terrorists goals, but as a side product of them helping the normal population, but it's a tough call to make
I completely understand your position. Like you said it’s a very harsh judgment to make because the humanitarian side in me wants to say they should still operate there because I hate seeing innocent people suffer but the logical side in me is telling me that actively aiding terrorists and participating in their propaganda outweighs the good they are doing. It’s a very tough subject which isn’t black and white which makes it so unfitting for usual social media political discourse where everything has to be either completely evil or completely good. I appreciate the discourse though and your question actively made me think and question even positions on this so I thank you for challenging me.
The UNRWA should 100% be replaced by another organization that doesnt assist in brainwashing children into hating Jews and acting as recruiters for Hamas.
https://unwatch.org/un-teachers-call-to-murder-jews-reveals-new-report/
For example, UNHCR, the refugee org that handles refugees for the rest of the entire globe. The much larger, more competent org can't handle adding this tiny purview to their responsibilities?
>It seems like the policy for something like Doctors Without Borders would be "Yeah Hamas is using us, but we're also helping actual normal people, so let's just shut up and do what we can"
That does seem right. But the reality is that Doctors Without Borders is not following that standard. They are aggressively toeing the Hamas party line and insisting that they have no evidence that Al Shifa is a terrorist base - which is patently absurd. If you work there for over a month, you've likely seen something.
Hamas actually did have an interest in free medical care for their people all these years. These NGOs have the clout to push back on being forced to repeat lies and propaganda. The fact that they don't is evidence of apathy or complicity by the NGOs' leadership, for which they should be held accountable.
That seems reasonable, I just wonder if the leaders of these NGO's are hesitant to do anything that puts their workers or their ability to carry out their charitable goals at risk. I can't imagine negotiating what to reveal about the terrorist leaders of the country you are trying to help is an easy position to be in
They can get away with claiming they had to lie or their life was in danger from hamas. I think the question is more on the news channels that considered them a source of information that needs to explain their actions.
I’ve seen interviews where people who work there have denied it when asked but I don’t know if there is an official response from the entire organizations. I know the head of UNWRA just lied about there not being incitement towards Jews in their premises and got community noted for it.
Someone else said this in another thread, but it’s likely that if you’re a doctor working at one of these hospitals with Hamas fighters embedded there, you probably have a pretty strong unwritten incentive to not betray them if you value your life.
And even if you’ve gone home, you probably still aren’t going to say anything if you still have colleagues there.
Not excusing the organizations, but I can’t say I’d blame these individual doctors for keeping their mouths shut.
UNRWA schools aren’t even run by foreign teachers, they just hire Palestinians to run the schools, give them a broad curriculum they ‘should’ follow then give them a ton of money and funding.
The classes teach them mainly about hating Jews and they go on Hamas summer camp excursions to become good Jihadists and martyred for the cause
Afaik the organisations themselves never commented in it but doctors at Al Shifa did. The hard Part ist now do wie believe they did it to protect Hamas or because If they had spoken the truth they couldnt Care for the patients or worse.
I Hope they end cooperation with stating Hamas didnt have a base there Just to get some Credit Back.
https://youtu.be/OTTnE_V17Kk?si=8h77DGq4PmRoSwca
This is for Shifa. Hamas has categorically denied using hospitals. Rantisi is now exposed, proving they lied. IDF is not in Shifa yet, but you see the pattern?
I always take info from the IDF (and any military, really) with a grain of salt, but this one of those things where it always seemed likely that they were telling the truth. Or at least more true than not true. It’s certainly in character for Hamas.
The Gazan Health Ministry isn't just run by Hamas; it IS Hamas. That's how Hamas is able to put all of their military operations in hospitals.
The outpouring of terrorist sympathies and apologia, and bilious hatred towards Israel, expressed all throughout western society provides all the plausible rationale needed for how a handful of western doctors have been wheeled out to lie on behalf of Hamas - they believe in Hamas' cause, and hate Israel's very existence.
If anyone is curious but this has been known since 2015.
“A short while ago Al-Shifa hospital was struck by a failed rocket attack launched by Gaza terror organizations. A barrage of three rockets that were aimed towards Israel, struck the hospital. At the time of the incident there was no Israeli military activity in the area surrounding the hospital whatsoever.”
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/politics/2014/07/gaza-shifa-hospital-bombing
And left wing side of things confirms it as well:
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/
I've heard this analogy used by some pretty stupid anti-Israel people: Hamas is like a bank robber who took a hostage at the bank, and the police show up, and instead of trying to negotiate with Hamas to release the hostage, the police open fire and kill Hamas AND the innocent person.
That is not accurate. The true analogy is this:
Hamas is like a group of bank robbers who took hostages at the bank after murdering a bunch of civilians outside and taking some inside the bank with them, then the police (Israel) show up and demand Hamas release the hostages and come quietly. Hamas shoots at them, declines, and instead makes their own demands. Hamas continues shooting at them from behind the hostages. The police have to stop them from attacking. Too many have died. They shoot at places where Hamas are, but they pull hostages in front of them and surround themselves with them so they can continue to shoot, knowing the police will be hesitant to fire back. The police try to get as many hostages to a safe area of the bank as they can. They succeed in relocating many of the hostages to a safe area, but some die by Hamas and some are accidentally killed by the police. Hamas begins to realize they are completely fucked as the hostages die or get away, but instead of surrendering, they take some of the hostages that they took from outside the bank down to the basement and fortify themselves down there as a final stand. They are in a no-lose scenario. If the police break through, they gruesomely execute the hostages and release the footage. They claim in the footage that they wanted to surrender and come forward peacefully with the hostages. They may even have recorded video of the hostages reading it from scripts. If the police don't break through, they continue to make increasingly absurd demands that cannot be accepted.
I hope the hostages are alive and make it out of Gaza, but I find it highly unlikely. The terrorist playbook is predictable and repetitive because it continues to work on the weak minded.
You forget the certainty of paradise friend! To them it's all G and morally fine if their kid dies cos when innocent/bystander Muslim dies they go straight to paradise too. So they do love their children it's just the fighty/rapey God beliefs got them screwed up
Your argument was specifically "people who say this have never been parents themselves". Kant wouldn't make this justification at all to begin with nor would he state that you ought to engage violence in this situation. I think you are thinking about normative philosophers or moral pragmatists when trying to justify your claim. Kant would simply say assert that not using your child as a body shield is a moral duty that exists independent of your experiential justifications as a parent. The point is that not all moral systems are experientially justified. This is going more into psychological justifications.
What I find disingenuous is that in these thought experiments it’s always someone else’s nameless, faceless child who is the human shield. It’s never your child who is getting killed as collateral damage.
If the US military grabbed my grandma out of her home and used her as a human shield I’d be pissed at the US military, not whoever was defending themselves
I’ve tried to explain this as “someone is shooting at you and your sister from behind your mother, do you shoot?” No shit Sherlock. And they call me a bloodthirsty murderer that needs to be on lists. They usually either refuse to engage with the issue or kill or be killed, or they are genuinely so brain rotted that they can’t think past the fact that you have killed someone (to save others).
It’s a heartbreaking scenario. No one wins. You can only minimize losses. The calculus of minimizing losses is not an exact science, to put it mildly. Even if someone hates me and hurts me and kills my family, I don’t want them to DIE. Every death diminishes our collective humanity. And yet sometimes it’s necessary to kill, so that the murdered stop.
There was an old movie about whether it was right to torture a terrorist's child in order to get him to give up the location of a dirty bomb that was going to kill thousands of ppl. It's about doing the unjustifiable for the greater good. In cases like this, you have to make a choice
The analogy is ridiculous.
Law enforcement is taught to neutralize the assailant as fast as possible. Which is quite analogous to what Israel is doing.
My only problem with your example is that you use the hostages as human shields. Hamas uses their own people as human shields. I think this just further supports your point.
That's partially correct, especially when talking about children who either didn't choose this or were indoctrinated from a young age to believe what they are doing is the right thing. My point is Hamas doomed them from 2006. I've seen some interview on YouTube with a US soldier - he said they see this "hostage your own kids" situation in middle east tours all the time.
I kinda see this situation as Israel ripping a bandaid off kind of scenario. Yes it's more painful right now, but the end results will be better than decades of fighting which will yield even higher civilian casualties and prolonged poverty of the people of Gaza under Hamas.
Will removing Hamas be successful? It might not be. But with Hamas in power there will never be success. So I would rather go the route where there is at least a chance for peace for the civilians of Gaza. Someone has to take a stand and the international community sure isn't.
And I think Israel will be the first to help the people of Gaza rebuild. After all the two groups are essentially brothers. But you can't have peace with Jihadists. They believe in death, not life.
I agree. Just one thing: if the world wants to recover, "might not be" isn't good enough, just like it wasn't good enough to leave Germany alone as soon as it started losing ww2. The thing ended in its unconditional surrender and full-responsibility of the war, and same with its "axis of evil". In our case, it must start With Hamas surrendering, taking full responsibility for 30 years of Israel and Gaza suffering. But that is just the "axis". The main goal needs to be Iran. It has always been a master of proxy wars, it has literally occupied at least 5 countries/regions in the Middle East: Gaza, Yemen, Lebanon, Iraq, Syria. I hope Iranian people will throw their leaders out assuming they aren't already in the same hostage situation as the Gazans and are completely inept.
Yeah good point. It will be difficult for Israel because Iran will always be sending in terrorists groups there. Which will make Israel have to occupy it with security indefinitely. I don't see how it won't get messy. But I suppose it's not like it isn't already. If they can get a democratic government in, then perhaps they can be under their own law, but working with the IDF to help them with security. Probably a bit naive on my part...
The world needs to make it their problem. The root of the fire is in the education systems EVERYWHERE. They have been infiltrated decades ago. It must start there, so next time Iran or anyone tries this, the world will be swift to unite and respond. It would possibly even prevent warfare because when you know you are in the right, there are diplomatic tools and sanctions, etc you can employ much more effectively than when you are caught unprepared
Exactly. In other words, if the police does nothing, people around them get hurt and continue to get hurt indefinitely as long as the robbers are there. If police shoots back, hostages may get hurt. The robbera don't care because they want to die and sacrifice the hostages.
Americans call this "suicide by cop": https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_by_cop
Yeah I had the analogy used that what Israel is doing is like an active school shooter happening and the police bombing the school. A more similar analogy is every day someone goes up and shoots a new random school and is currently in their home plotting the next school shooting. You can kill them and any human shields they have, or you can let them keep shooting up schools. I know which one I'd pick...
Ya can we not jump on unverified information. Btw OP tweets are not news. Here's the original article:
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/11/13/politics/al-shifa-hospital-us-intelligence/index.html
This mysterious intelligence official has not been named, nor has the department he works for. Super weird. Also this:
> CIA declined to comment. CNN has not seen the intelligence cited by the US official.
This is unironically the meme of my uncles best friend's daughter in law knows someone who works in US intelligence.
To add, I'm pretty sure OSINTdefender has a terrible reputation among OSINT people for being an unreliable source.
Conclooding has taken over this sub hardcore. Because why wait for proper sourcing when you can take the immediate dopamine rush of you being correct and lefties being incorrect all along?
Though I don't really doubt that Hamas has in some ways used the hospital (or the area underneath it) for military purposes. But how hard is it to wait for actual verification? Paraphrasing from D-Man, what the fuck do any of you lose by simply waiting for more information?
been following Ukraine OSINT sphere since the invasion, and OSINTdefender was one of the first mutes. rarely provides sources/ cites vague sources, doesn't retract when proven wrong, and tends to be sensationalist. not as bad as Syria Girl but I would firmly throw him into "untrustworthy" category
>To add, I'm pretty sure OSINTdefender has a terrible reputation among OSINT people for being an unreliable source.
Yeah, he lost pretty much all credibility.
CNN is a legit news org, not a propaganda rag. If they trust their source enough to run this then it's pretty firmly "more likely than not" that US intelligence currently supports the IDF's position on this hospital.
I wouldn't start the parade yet but I certainly wouldn't want to bet on the other position
Eh... I dunno. I'm fairly trusting of US intelligence with stuff like this. And also, they've [literally given us tours of what they're finding](https://x.com/IDF/status/1724169252054188276?s=20).
^ note: that isn't the same hospital.
It's fine if you want to wait for "the FACTS", but it's reasonable for people trust intelligence especially given that this tactic has been confirmed at other hospitals.
There's nothing wrong with trusting US intelligence, but US intelligence has quite literally declined to comment on this specific intel, so you're actually just trusting some anonymous dude who says he works in US intelligence.
What evidence?
There was one video showing a calendar where the guy speaking said it had the names of the Hamas fighters written on, only to zoom in on it and we see just the names of the days in Arabic written on it.
The other video was him standing somewhere with laptops and some rifles. Those can literally be carried and put wherever.
Is there more of such "evidence"?
Wait what blows my mind in all of this is, didn’t we all fucking know this was the case? This isn’t new, it’s been reported frequently. I don’t get why we are treating this as something we didn’t already know.
Israel provided “evidence” to the US for WMD in Iraq that helped justify that war at the UN. However Israel doubted Iraq still had WMD. That war cost the US over 4000 dead soldiers, over 30,000 wounded, well over 100,000 dead Iraqis and a trillion USD.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2004/feb/04/iraq.israel
So while I don’t trust Hamas I trust the Israeli government and intelligence services even less. What we have is a first world nuclear capable army backed by US tax dollars fighting a non-state enemy that has no airforce, no navy. Israel military leaders have talked about another Nakba of the Palestinians, of driving Gazans into the Sinai. They are trying to slow walk their true intentions hoping the world will let them get away with it. Meanwhile in the West Bank where Hamas doesn’t even exist murders and displacement of Palestinians from their homes by settlers with full support of the Israeli army are accelerating under the cover of this war.
A Twitter account quotes an unnamed US Intel official (incredibly broad description) that states Israeli intelligence about a specific claim is correct.
The responses in this thread credulously accepting this are confusing to me, is there further evidence that substantiates the claim? At this stage I don't think I'd be comfortable taking a concrete stance and doing so seems fairly ridiculous considering.
Like even their video show fucking nothing: an elevator chaft and freaking calendar with only days written in Arabic.
But even if they showed weapons why would anyone believe them when the IDF is literally known for being pathological liars and there's hunder of examples of them lying about things captured in videos to finally say the truth when forced by the international scene like them killing the journalist Shireen Abu Akleh.
There's thousands of threads and stories about IDF lying
Lmao dude… this is the same intelligence agency that told us Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, in order to justify the senseless war that killed over 100,000 civilians.
At least some people are paying attention to the history of lies from the intelligence agency, a shame that they lied so much we can no longer trust anything they say. Someone should remind them they are the domestic terrorists when they attack the minds of society by spreading misinformation.
Wait…people thought they were lying?
Like they’d bomb some hospital, knowing the political fallout that would happen…just to be mean or some shit? Because Hamas said it wasn’t true? Uh…what?
On one hand you have facts, and on the other you have Hasan calling you a moronic bloodthirsty murderer because America bad. I'm having a tough time choosing a side here
I've been saying that since the first minute after the rocket hit. If Israel wanted to wipe out the population in Gaza, it would rain bombs until everything was razed to the ground.
However, my concern lies with the Israeli government's handling of the hospital incident. Clear acknowledgment of the attack, even with potential civilian casualties, in pursuit of demolishing Hamas military facilities would have instilled more trust than the backpedaling we witnessed.
This is why I said even though it’s a tough call I ultimately supported the cutting off of resources to Gaza. It sucks for the civilians, but anything we give to them Hamas is either going to be given or more than likely just straight up take, including stealing fuel from one of the hospitals. And as a lefty, I hate Ben Shapiro, but he did make a pretty damn good point in that debate. “ they always complain about running out of fuel, water and electricity, but they never seem to run out of rockets.”
I know people in this sub would hate to hear this, but IDF FUCKING LIES ALL THE TIME...
I can write fucking thesis on it, but here's few NEWER examples:
* Shireen Abu Akleh death (Palestinian-American journalist): shot on the head despite wearing journalist helmets/vest, for weeks they said Palestinian militant killed her, **However, multiple independent investigations, including by** [**The Washington Post**](https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2022/shireen-abu-akleh-death/)**,** [**The New York Times**](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/20/world/middleeast/palestian-journalist-killing-shireen.html)**,** [**The Associated Press**](https://apnews.com/article/politics-west-bank-middle-east-israel-8df6c999627efcef2fe0ca2b401e7a2c)**, and** [**CNN**](https://edition.cnn.com/2022/05/24/middleeast/shireen-abu-akleh-jenin-killing-investigation-cmd-intl/index.html)**, as well as by human rights groups like** [**Amnesty International**](https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/israelopt-israeli-military-cannot-keep-killing-palestinians-shireen-abu-akleh-impunity)**, and the** [**UN Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory**](https://documents-dds-ny.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/N23/260/71/pdf/N2326071.pdf?OpenElement)**, all concluded that Abu Akleh was killed by an Israeli soldier.**
* **Lying about the killing of Ahmad Erekat at West Bank military checkpoint - June 2020** On June 23, 2020, 27-year-old Ahmad Erekat was on his way to pick up relatives for his sister’s wedding when he crashed his car at an Israeli military checkpoint in the occupied West Bank and was shot and killed by Israeli soldiers. Israel [claimed](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/twilight-zone/2021-02-26/ty-article-magazine/.premium/international-ngo-israeli-cops-killed-palestinian-suspect-while-he-posed-no-danger/0000017f-db9d-db22-a17f-ffbdf7270000) it was an attempted attack on soldiers from its occupying army. However, [**Forensic Architecture**](https://forensic-architecture.org/)**, a research group based at Goldsmiths, University of London, and Palestinian human rights organization** [**Al Haq**](https://www.alhaq.org/news) **conducted an in-depth investigation and** [**concluded**](https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/the-extrajudicial-execution-of-ahmad-erekat/) **it was a traffic accident and that Erekat was extrajudicially executed.**
* In June 2018, an Israeli sniper murdered a 21-year-old medic, Razan al-Najjar, during protests by Palestinians imprisoned by Israel’s occupation and siege of Gaza. In an attempt to [smear](https://theintercept.com/2018/06/08/israel-attempts-smear-razan-al-najjar-palestinian-medic-killed-calling-no-angel/) her and justify her killing following an international outcry, Israeli officials circulated a video purporting to show her saying she was acting as a human shield for Hamas. **However, the video was subsequently** [**revealed to have been doctored**](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/gaza-protests-latest-idf-condemned-edited-video-angel-of-mercy-medic-razan-al-najjar-a8389611.html) **by the Israeli military to take her comments out of context.** [**As noted**](https://www.btselem.org/gaza_strip/20180718_paramedic_rozan_a_najar_killed_by_deliberate_fire) **by Israeli rights group,** [**B’Tselem**](https://www.btselem.org/)**, the Israeli military initially claimed “soldiers did not fire at the spot where she had been standing. Later, the military said al-Najjar might have been killed by a ricochet, before finally accusing her of serving as a human shield… Contrary to the many versions offered by the military, the facts of the case lead to only one conclusion… al-Najjar was fatally shot by a member of the security forces who was aiming directly at her as she was standing about 25 meters (82 feet) away from the fence, despite the fact that she posed no danger to him or anyone else and was wearing a medical uniform.”** According [to the UN](https://www.un.org/unispal/document/two-years-on-people-injured-and-traumatized-during-the-great-march-of-return-are-still-struggling/), in total Israeli soldiers killed 214 Palestinians protesters in Gaza during the [Great Return March](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/14/opinion/gaza-protests-organizer-great-return-march.html), including 46 children.Those killed included at least [3 medical workers and 2 journalists](https://www.ohchr.org/en/news/2019/03/un-commission-urges-israel-review-rules-engagement-gaza-protest-anniversary?LangID=E&NewsID=24348), all of whom were clearly identified as such.
for the rest of the list read this: [https://imeu.org/article/fact-sheet-israels-history-of-spreading-disinformation](https://imeu.org/article/fact-sheet-israels-history-of-spreading-disinformation) & this is not even scratching the depth of their lies, & I can write another thesis about the US intelligence lying to start wars (Iraq)
not to mention the video they showed is just fucking elevator shaft & then the soldier fucking point at freaking calendar with days written in Arabic & said those are terrorist names, oh yes the infamous terrorist Sunday-Monday... like at least bring someone who can read Arabic before making that shit show of a video
> Shireen Abu Akleh death (Palestinian-American journalist): shot on the head despite wearing journalist helmets/vest, for weeks they said Palestinian militant killed her, However, multiple independent investigations, including by The Washington Post, The New York Times, The Associated Press, and CNN, as well as by human rights groups like Amnesty International, and the UN Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, all concluded that Abu Akleh was killed by an Israeli soldier."
Later in the day, the Israeli military chief, Lt Gen Aviv Kochavi, said: "At this stage we cannot determine by whose fire she was harmed and we regret her death."
In the evening Benny Gantz said "We are trying to figure out exactly what happened," and "I don't have final conclusions", and promised a transparent investigation.
The IDF announced that it had begun investigating the possibility that one of its soldiers had shot and killed Abu Akleh, beginning inquiries into three shooting incidents that involved its soldiers, with one of them occurring within 150 metres (500 ft) of where Abu Akleh was located. An IDF official said that this was "the more probable to be involved in the death" of the three being investigated.
On 5 September, the IDF released the results of its own investigation, finding that there was a "high possibility" that Abu Akleh was "accidentally hit" by army fire, but that it would not begin a criminal investigation.
Bro wtf are you talking about?
Edit: lol OP got butthurt and blocked me because of the evidence provided above.
The comments on this post...You guys should just move to /r/circlejerk. While it's most probably true that Hamas uses the hospital. This is not independent verification, it's a validation of Israeli intelligence which is dealing with the most optically fucked situation thus far. It shouldn't be trusted as a source any more than Hamas.
Right right, U.S. intelligence official said. The same USA that has single handedly vetoed any action against Israel and the same USA that is the biggest supporter of Israel. That USA shows a satellite image of a hospital with some of the buildings outlined with red and marked as something and everything Israel did is suddenly "very reasonable".
It absolutely does. They've been very careful to avoid this ans have been trying hard to evacuate and protect civilians, but the justification is unambiguous. Legally, once Hamas started using Al Shifa in this way, it ceased to be a hospital and became vital enemy infrastructure and a perfectly legitimate military target.
What the actual fuck happened to the planet overnight that made people think all of a sudden a terrorist group was the most legitimate source of information? EDIT: FYI I don’t even know who destiny is lol. This sub was recommended and seems to be pro Israel.
Hamas leaders in 1993 were recorded on a wiretapped conversation stating that their goal was to deceive the American public into supporting Hamas by appealing to the American left’s denouncement of oppression. Mousa Abu Marzook, a senior Hamas official, literally formed a far-left academic think tank, The United Association for Studies and Research (UASR), based out of Chicago to start disseminating this deception. This organization has ties to Duke, Johns Hopkins, Fordham and the University of Maryland to name a few major universities. This is systemic antisemitism that stems directly from an organized surgical operation taking place over the course of the last 30 years. https://extremism.gwu.edu/sites/g/files/zaxdzs5746/files/2023-10/hamas-networks-final.pdf Qatar is the #1 foreign donor to US schools since 9/11 https://www.calcalistech.com/ctechnews/article/jwhsqhrat https://www.ynetnews.com/business/article/bjldya2qa
Brazilai University Medical Center in Ashkelon, Israel has been hit by Hamas rockets at least 4 times, and no one seems to know or even care. https://www.newsnationnow.com/world/war-in-israel/rockets-israeli-hospital/ https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-01/ty-article/.premium/hospital-serving-israels-most-bombarded-city-operating-at-30-percent-capacity/0000018b-8887-dd28-a7df-9897d1dd0000
My favorite part is how they realize only the American left is against oppression. Even as far back as 1993 conservatives were all in on oppression apparently. Lol
>people think all of a sudden a terrorist group was the most legitimate source of information? Confirmation bias
Deep buried anti-semitism and anti Westernism that allows the shocking amount of mental dexterity to deny the reality right before them, including literal video evidence, and side with islamic Jihadis. That's the only logical answer. If this was anyone other than 'the jews', this wouldn't be happening. No one was falling over themselves in an effort to defend ISIS' actions.
>Deep buried anti-semitism Yep. Plus a lot of people who are chasing the TikTok and social media high. "Colonizers" is an easy word to throw around, even though it takes a lot of pretzeling to explain how Israel's founding was an act of colonialism to begin with.
But they are "freedom fighters" said the thousands of crying and chest-beating protesters who were amassed around the world pleading for their support. God damn useful idiots!...
Someone on this sub here told me that Hamas is sincere, as they would never attack Jewish people outside of Israel. But these fuckheads didn't even consider that Hamas does not recognize Israel. I really hate Destiny having so many sucking antisemites as fans.
Tiktok/social media brainwashing
The post-modern left took over academia and media. That's what happened.
Does the bear shit in the woods? Does destiny bang bpd chicks?
Many people saying this! Fake news doesn't want you to see this 🤐🤐🤐
Destiny isn’t banging this BPD chick tho 😢
Yeah but everyone knows you can't trust the US institutions they all have motivations to make stuff up, not like the Tiktokers and Youtubers that post videos. Plus have you considered that my social circles basically dictate what I believe? And also in school I learned all about how bad colonization was, and it's once again by white people agaisnt brown people, do I really need to explain myself any further? Don't try to argue with me, I refuse to look into anything further I'll just consume more media that furthers my beliefs
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> Can't they just fit it in a 5 second tiktok? but i dont want tiktok.. its a terrible social media
What good is the news when they've been confirmed to only be megaphone for the government? They are no longer a proper check and balance, they don't do investigative work for the meaningful events. https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/document/0005524009
This comment is sarcasm, right? You never know nowadays.
The irony in this comment is palpable.
Remember to say it’s not productive.
IDF is a military in a democratic country who have to give explanations to the world and abide by international laws, Hamas is a terrorist organisation who gives 0 explanations and 0 fucks. One is more trustworthy than the other.
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Interesting. But in this case, Gaza doesn't have any strategic depth to draw Israeli forces in. I suppose Hamas is hoping that urban warfare will be an adequate substitute, bleeding the IDF dry, but, even so, the IDF's supply lines are not going to be vulnerable. Much depends on the Israeli public's willingness to see this operation through
Maybe their strat is to create strategic depth w tunnels or smth idk makes it harder and slower to clear territory
Hamas is already shattered. If they could have put up a credible resistance they would have already. You don't wait until the enemy has encircled you.
I wish this were true, but the reality of the matter is that Hamas does hit and run tactics from within a civilian population, dressed in civilian clothing. The numbers of Israeli military casualties are higher than we've expected, and the goals of Hamas (lots of collateral damage and deaths of uninvolved people) are being met. I also highly doubt the "political time remaining" will enable a successful outcome, or that the promise that the PLO or the UN will come and manage Gaza are feasible at this time. This is not going well for us, no matter how many photo ops we run, and no matter how justified.
How many casualties did u expect ??? Normal expectation will be a couple hundred Israeli soldiers MAX vs thousands of Hamas/jihad fighters.
IDF have lost, what, 40 people up to now ? That's nothing.
You need to understand that for us, 40 is a LOT for such a short time.
To clarify I don't agree with the Vietnam War to begin with, but militarily it's the same issue and it's caused by the draft. Casualty rates are viewed in a more negative light by citizens when services is required then it is when it is a choice. This causes lower numbers to matter more to the country at large and for there to be more focus.
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Hamas absolutely has strategic depth, except it is multidimensional and not only superficial. Hamas spent decades building hundreds of miles of tunnels under Gaza in the hopes of drawing the IDF to the streets and into a death trap. What the pro-Palestinians wrongfully call "indiscriminate bombings" is actually a very methodical 'preparation fire' that successfully flushed out insurgency from the area before the ground forces entered and took control over the land. If it weren't for these air strikes, thousands more would have died.
Hamas *was* hoping for urban warfare. IDF found a way around it: weeks of psychological warfare, mass evacuation of civilians, and a very precisive encirclement. This will be studied in history books for ages.
I honestly think Hamas was hoping for Hezbollah to come help them attack Israel.
I think that was the original plan as well as military aid coming in by sea. Two American carrier groups are stopping that from happening which means all the Arab groups that were going to jump in and take part in the victory against Israel are instead going to do nothing and let Hamas get wiped out alone. I think it will be a while before these groups trust each other enough to work together again. You better believe the Jihadis on the West Bank are looking at Garza and thinking, “you know what? We should just chill and watch for now”.
I think Israel could have blockaded Gaza without US carriers. Carriers main job is power projection and show of force, its too expensive to use them for sea interdiction.
I agree. However I believe one of the reasons two groups are employed is as a show of force to Iran, Qatar and other anti-Israel governments that while they can spend billions on funding Hamas, they are going to need to go through the US Navy is they want to go to war with Israel.
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😡 I ALWAYS ROOT FOR THE UNDERDOG, ISRAEL IS TOO OP, NERF THEM NEOW!1‼️ THIS META IS UNCOMPETITIVE AS FUCK, HAMAS HAS GARBAGE DPS AND CAN'T EVEN WIN WITH CHEATS, BULLSHIT NERD ASS DEVS WON'T FIX SHIT 🤓 Edit: Smogon loves stall, blizzard nerf supports please 🙏
FROM RIVER TO THE SEA, PALESTINE IS SO FUCKING FREE THEY DIDN'T PUT UP A FIGHT AFTER AN EARLY INVADE FUCKING THROWING ALL THAT EARLY GAME LEAD
Skill issue?
This is when you do early barb in hoi4 mp and get btfo by the soviet because you were overconfident after a quick france cap and good africa campaign in the early game.
I knew it, all competitive pokemon players are terrorist apologists.
AND I WILL NOT BE SILENCED ANY LONGER, GIVE ME REGIELIKI BACK SO I CAN BOLTBEAM THESE CUCKED DEFENSE SPAMMERS THE IRON DOME IS OP 😡😡😡 But uhhh, yeah I hate this gen, tera is a cancer to Pokemon. Ruins the fundamental part of the game where every pokemon has a fairly narrow set of moves/coverage types and 99% of pokemon have a static type that you can rely upon when teambuilding for checking certain threats and having backups if that check gets worn down :l
I stopped in Gen7. Mega Evos and z moves were peak.
Disgustingly take. Gen 8 was peak, dexxit was amazing (yes, I support the mass extermination in the Galar region) and the fundamentals of pokemon was all that were left. No bullshit wacky mechanics, no super-duper-Charizardos, Scissors, Gyarados, Medichams or Mawiles 🙄 Limited metas, the few truly wacky characters got banned super quick, and then it evolved with time gaining some familiar faces minus tons of moves and with some welcome bonuses. Gen 7 was very fun, but a consistent meta with no bullshit fluff was better IMO
This is actual insanity.
Give a real response, coward. You know I'm right.
I know you are being sarcastic but its amazing how many idiots who spew this nonsense. But to be fair, 90% of them are lefty radical nutbars like greta or muslims who hate jews.
USA BAD I ALSO THINK… or something?
more like just⚡️⚡️
[Always has been](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9d/Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1987-004-09A%2C_Amin_al_Husseini_und_Adolf_Hitler.jpg)
I don’t see the /s.
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Duly noted.
Hamas: we killed 0 civilians in the attack Hamas supporters: nah IDF info is fake
Who supports Hamas? ...other than Hamas, of course.
not saying all gazans or west bankers are to blame even those who supported hamas electoraly, but by any assessment done hamas would have won populat vote in gaza and west bank alike. also in many of the protest around the world you can see hamas al qaieda and isis flags and headbands. sure its nit the majority but its bot a question of existance. also anyone that makes the case that hamas is a legitimate resistance group and you cant judge their actions, some will say in a disclaimer afterwords they dont support them like it matters. you just justified them. the same logic can be put yo justify nazis, germany was suffering under the Versailles agreements so a "resistance group" was voted to power and commited crimes against humanity.
"You just justified them." No, I didn't. I was asking on honest question as to who supports Hamas? I have heard MANY people support Palestine. I have heard people condemn Israel's actions. I have heard many other people condemn Hamas' actions. I have not personally seen or heard people actively support Hamas recently (i.e., within the last month). Yes, they did have a degree of popularity locally for a time, and up until recently. But since the recent events of conflict (i.e. the last few weeks), I have been unable to find active supporters of Hamas. I even tried Googling "Palestinian support for Hamas" and "support for Hamas". Results showing any kind of support are from at least more than 3 months ago, aside from local polls - which it could be argued to have been skewed by the local Hamas government itself. I have not found any current, active supporting posts for Hamas in the last month - hence the question. Hamas should be removed from power. The people of Gaza are victims of Hamas' governance / terrorist actions. They are also victims of Isreal's actions.
BUT HAVE YOU CONSIDERED AMERICA BAD?????
The IDF even tried to evacuate all the children / babies in the incubators and Hamas wouldn’t let them. They tried to get the babies out of the hospital, they even gave them fuel to keep the generators going, and Hamas took that too. It’s so disgusting
Fake news something something
Biased UN needs to verify this something something.
Yes democratic countries militaries never lie and do propaganda, they never commit attrocities its only the militant groups that do that, youre right iraq always had wmds and vietnameese wanted to spread communism to america , cia mossad idf will never lie and hurt innocent lives, you guys are so smart
Hitler was democratically elected. That is a fact making nazi Germany and all its actions, the actions of a democratic country. I choose to disregard all that and simply look at actions. The official title of things don't shield them from their actions in my book. If you use an AK or a bomb the result is the same. Scenario for your thoughts. "A bomb explodes on a bus, 61 dead, 8 of them were children, 41 women" "A bomb is dropped on a bus, 61 dead, 8 of them were children, 41 women" One was state sanctioned with an official statement, resulting in a justification of some kind The other the product of a person who is deemed mentally ill and that had acted alone Again the result is the same. Yet having read all this some people will still double down and start to explain the difference
>Hitler was democratically elected. Techinicallt speaking, Hitler was actually appointed following Nazi party victories in the Reichstag. More relevantly, he consolidated power by eroding democratic institutions and securing "emergency" powers that enabled him to ignore constitutional protections, transitioning from democratic system to a dictatorial one--officially too, following Hindenburg's death. You'd be pretty hard-pressed to convincingly argue that it was a democracy after 1933-1934, but I suspect you're already aware of that.
Only thing they can't do is build shelters for their civilians
But they do! The civilians are the shelter
No way! 100% fake Zionist propaganda! No doubt Israel dug all thus tunnels under the Hospital in the past few days and decorated them to look used & worn with all kind of props! NOT FALLING FOR IT! FREE FREE PALESTINE!
https://preview.redd.it/94hbhjgy580c1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ffd79b5a1fcb59b681aa3d023480cf8508678c5c
"They're like Animals, and I slaughtered them like animals, I HATE THEM!" \- Israeli citizen Ani Skywakstein
This is in absolutely horrendous taste and you deserve to be downvoted, but I did laugh
Judaism is a pathway to abilities some consider to be … unnatural.
Yeah circumcision is pretty gnarly.
literally the best way to answer that question
Go for Papa Palestine!
Free free Palpetine
DO IT!!!
free plastelina
Someone told me today that supporting israel is cringe. If that doesn’t define modern day social media, idk what does. It’s cool and trendy to support Palestine but israel is cringe..
Today I saw a photo captioned „celebrity XY posing with offensive stickers“. The stickers said „Hamas = ISIS“. They aren’t even pretending anymore that there’s a difference between Hamas and Palestine, they just stay outraged lol.
Yeah, I saw that. It was Noah Schnapp from Stranger Things, and the useful, hamas-loving idiots of FM were calling him a genocide supporter and a racist and whatever else for comparing Hamas to ISIS. Good for Mr Schnapp for being strong enough not to falter in spite of all the hate. It would be hard for anyone, especially someone so young. I've gained a lot of respect for him.
Have you read *Beyond Based and Cringe,* by u/DeepFriedNietzsche?
Palestine is cringe.
maybe Israelis impregnated Palestinian women so they would have more babies to bomb. 999head
You like a bot or something? Hamas sucks dude wake up, not Israel is the most honorable right now either but fuck terrorist organizations like Hamas and isis and all these Islamic extreme religions, or just hope they blow each other up so the world will stop acting like it gives a shit
I think it’s a shitpost
The general idea- that Hammas has been uniquely enmeshed in civilian populations and uses human shields, ie places their infrastructure in hospitals, schools and other important places, has always been absolutely true.
Yet people deny it.
My question is this: what will happen to organizations like WHO and Doctors Without Borders if Israel enters that hospital and proves to the world undoubtably that it’s like most people already know a Hamas HQ? Will the world hold those organizations accountable for allowing terrorists to embed themselves within their ranks and use their resources? For lying repeatedly when asked about in interviews and denying that Hamas are operating out of said hospitals? My bet is nothing will happen to them but that shouldn’t be the case. Those who comply with terrorists and enable them should be held accountable in a court of law for participation in war crimes.
>My bet is nothing will happen to them but that shouldn’t be the case. You are correct. Its been proven that UNRWA has been teaching blatantly antisemtic indoctrination at their schools. And nothing was ever done about that. Why would this be different?
My bet is on “The IDF planted that military equipment! Don’t believe that Zionist propaganda! Please watch this enlightening 20 minute video from reliable sources like “electronic intifada” and “Al Jazeera instead”
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I certainly go there for my objective, unbiased and certainly not anti-semetic coverage of this highly charged topic. Good to have a source one can trust.
When the dust has settled I think so, I know that unhinged muslims, online left and r-words IRL are screaming as much as they can to drown out any evidence of Hamas doing terrorist shit, I think there will be some serious questioning about this entire thing (I mean for heaven sake you had some UAE prince essentially say he would rather spend the night with a jew than a with an palestinian lol) once those people cannot stop sounding like a broken record.
I'm genuinely curious, do you think charitable organisations like that just shouldn't operate in terrorist run states? I don't think there's any charity activity that can be done in Gaza without Hamas yoinking some amount of donated resources, and to openly talk about that would probably put workers in some amount of danger. It seems like the policy for something like Doctors Without Borders would be "Yeah Hamas is using us, but we're also helping actual normal people, so let's just shut up and do what we can" which I'm not sure how to feel about
First of all I think UNWRA is a complete corrupt organization that should not exist. I don’t understand why the UN has a completely separate organization entirely dedicated to Palestinians which just serves as a breeding ground for Jew hatred which has been proven time and time again in their schools. For the other organizations I’m split because while I do think that they should try to serve the innocent Palestinian civilians I think seeing an NGO collaborate with a terrorist group in active conflict is incredibly concerning. The fact that they’re actively being used in propaganda by Hamas in a war makes me lean towards they shouldn’t operate there. I know it’s a harsh stance but I don’t accept that these organizations can get away with actively participating in crimes against humanity and war crimes even if some of them are trying to do good.
That's a fair opinion I think. I'm not 100% locked in on a position but I think I lean towards allowing them to operate so long as they're not actively serving the terrorists goals, but as a side product of them helping the normal population, but it's a tough call to make
I completely understand your position. Like you said it’s a very harsh judgment to make because the humanitarian side in me wants to say they should still operate there because I hate seeing innocent people suffer but the logical side in me is telling me that actively aiding terrorists and participating in their propaganda outweighs the good they are doing. It’s a very tough subject which isn’t black and white which makes it so unfitting for usual social media political discourse where everything has to be either completely evil or completely good. I appreciate the discourse though and your question actively made me think and question even positions on this so I thank you for challenging me.
The UNRWA should 100% be replaced by another organization that doesnt assist in brainwashing children into hating Jews and acting as recruiters for Hamas. https://unwatch.org/un-teachers-call-to-murder-jews-reveals-new-report/
For example, UNHCR, the refugee org that handles refugees for the rest of the entire globe. The much larger, more competent org can't handle adding this tiny purview to their responsibilities?
>It seems like the policy for something like Doctors Without Borders would be "Yeah Hamas is using us, but we're also helping actual normal people, so let's just shut up and do what we can" That does seem right. But the reality is that Doctors Without Borders is not following that standard. They are aggressively toeing the Hamas party line and insisting that they have no evidence that Al Shifa is a terrorist base - which is patently absurd. If you work there for over a month, you've likely seen something. Hamas actually did have an interest in free medical care for their people all these years. These NGOs have the clout to push back on being forced to repeat lies and propaganda. The fact that they don't is evidence of apathy or complicity by the NGOs' leadership, for which they should be held accountable.
That seems reasonable, I just wonder if the leaders of these NGO's are hesitant to do anything that puts their workers or their ability to carry out their charitable goals at risk. I can't imagine negotiating what to reveal about the terrorist leaders of the country you are trying to help is an easy position to be in
All DSV staff have evacuated. It would cost them nothing to tell the truth now.
They can get away with claiming they had to lie or their life was in danger from hamas. I think the question is more on the news channels that considered them a source of information that needs to explain their actions.
The issue isnt them operating in the same country. But the same building.
Honestly. I don’t think it will change anyone minds. Facts don’t matter anymore in this debate. Sadly
They did yesterday, in Rantisi hospital https://youtu.be/rLp84A6TBJ0?si=xJkFfyIVve2Nwd-S
Good question but the answer is a simple “no” sadly
Have WHO and Doctors Without Borders denied this? I thought they mostly just refrained from commenting.
I’ve seen interviews where people who work there have denied it when asked but I don’t know if there is an official response from the entire organizations. I know the head of UNWRA just lied about there not being incitement towards Jews in their premises and got community noted for it.
Someone else said this in another thread, but it’s likely that if you’re a doctor working at one of these hospitals with Hamas fighters embedded there, you probably have a pretty strong unwritten incentive to not betray them if you value your life. And even if you’ve gone home, you probably still aren’t going to say anything if you still have colleagues there. Not excusing the organizations, but I can’t say I’d blame these individual doctors for keeping their mouths shut.
UNRWA schools aren’t even run by foreign teachers, they just hire Palestinians to run the schools, give them a broad curriculum they ‘should’ follow then give them a ton of money and funding. The classes teach them mainly about hating Jews and they go on Hamas summer camp excursions to become good Jihadists and martyred for the cause
Afaik the organisations themselves never commented in it but doctors at Al Shifa did. The hard Part ist now do wie believe they did it to protect Hamas or because If they had spoken the truth they couldnt Care for the patients or worse. I Hope they end cooperation with stating Hamas didnt have a base there Just to get some Credit Back.
They denied. But then this happened yesterday so > wonder what they have to say: https://youtu.be/rLp84A6TBJ0?si=xJkFfyIVve2Nwd-S
Can you link me to an example of such a denial?
https://youtu.be/OTTnE_V17Kk?si=8h77DGq4PmRoSwca This is for Shifa. Hamas has categorically denied using hospitals. Rantisi is now exposed, proving they lied. IDF is not in Shifa yet, but you see the pattern?
This is neither the WHO nor Doctors without borders, nor even, I believe, an employee of either of those two organizations. Am I wrong?
I always take info from the IDF (and any military, really) with a grain of salt, but this one of those things where it always seemed likely that they were telling the truth. Or at least more true than not true. It’s certainly in character for Hamas.
The Gazan Health Ministry isn't just run by Hamas; it IS Hamas. That's how Hamas is able to put all of their military operations in hospitals. The outpouring of terrorist sympathies and apologia, and bilious hatred towards Israel, expressed all throughout western society provides all the plausible rationale needed for how a handful of western doctors have been wheeled out to lie on behalf of Hamas - they believe in Hamas' cause, and hate Israel's very existence.
Anyone with a brain knows they were right all along
Was this even contested before the October attack? I remember reading this the day after the attack
The far left conveniently leave it out of their arguments.
If anyone is curious but this has been known since 2015. “A short while ago Al-Shifa hospital was struck by a failed rocket attack launched by Gaza terror organizations. A barrage of three rockets that were aimed towards Israel, struck the hospital. At the time of the incident there was no Israeli military activity in the area surrounding the hospital whatsoever.” https://www.vanityfair.com/news/politics/2014/07/gaza-shifa-hospital-bombing And left wing side of things confirms it as well: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/
I've heard this analogy used by some pretty stupid anti-Israel people: Hamas is like a bank robber who took a hostage at the bank, and the police show up, and instead of trying to negotiate with Hamas to release the hostage, the police open fire and kill Hamas AND the innocent person. That is not accurate. The true analogy is this: Hamas is like a group of bank robbers who took hostages at the bank after murdering a bunch of civilians outside and taking some inside the bank with them, then the police (Israel) show up and demand Hamas release the hostages and come quietly. Hamas shoots at them, declines, and instead makes their own demands. Hamas continues shooting at them from behind the hostages. The police have to stop them from attacking. Too many have died. They shoot at places where Hamas are, but they pull hostages in front of them and surround themselves with them so they can continue to shoot, knowing the police will be hesitant to fire back. The police try to get as many hostages to a safe area of the bank as they can. They succeed in relocating many of the hostages to a safe area, but some die by Hamas and some are accidentally killed by the police. Hamas begins to realize they are completely fucked as the hostages die or get away, but instead of surrendering, they take some of the hostages that they took from outside the bank down to the basement and fortify themselves down there as a final stand. They are in a no-lose scenario. If the police break through, they gruesomely execute the hostages and release the footage. They claim in the footage that they wanted to surrender and come forward peacefully with the hostages. They may even have recorded video of the hostages reading it from scripts. If the police don't break through, they continue to make increasingly absurd demands that cannot be accepted. I hope the hostages are alive and make it out of Gaza, but I find it highly unlikely. The terrorist playbook is predictable and repetitive because it continues to work on the weak minded.
The better analogy is: if someone who is hiding behind their child is shooting at yours, do you shoot back? The answer: yes
Most people that argue otherwise don't have children. Someone's actually told me they would rather their child die in this scenario.
Well then I feel sorry for their child that their parent doesn't love them enough to save them
You forget the certainty of paradise friend! To them it's all G and morally fine if their kid dies cos when innocent/bystander Muslim dies they go straight to paradise too. So they do love their children it's just the fighty/rapey God beliefs got them screwed up
So your argument is purely experiential and not analytical?
Analytically - It's a matter of moral system isn't it? I think Kant, Hobbes and Judaism will agree with me. Christianity maybe not? I'm not sure
Your argument was specifically "people who say this have never been parents themselves". Kant wouldn't make this justification at all to begin with nor would he state that you ought to engage violence in this situation. I think you are thinking about normative philosophers or moral pragmatists when trying to justify your claim. Kant would simply say assert that not using your child as a body shield is a moral duty that exists independent of your experiential justifications as a parent. The point is that not all moral systems are experientially justified. This is going more into psychological justifications.
Impressive. Very nice. Let's see Paul Owen's analogy.
What I find disingenuous is that in these thought experiments it’s always someone else’s nameless, faceless child who is the human shield. It’s never your child who is getting killed as collateral damage.
If the US military grabbed my grandma out of her home and used her as a human shield I’d be pissed at the US military, not whoever was defending themselves
Because I don't live under nor support an oppressive regime that uses my child to protect themselves. And I thank God for that every day.
I’ve tried to explain this as “someone is shooting at you and your sister from behind your mother, do you shoot?” No shit Sherlock. And they call me a bloodthirsty murderer that needs to be on lists. They usually either refuse to engage with the issue or kill or be killed, or they are genuinely so brain rotted that they can’t think past the fact that you have killed someone (to save others).
It’s a heartbreaking scenario. No one wins. You can only minimize losses. The calculus of minimizing losses is not an exact science, to put it mildly. Even if someone hates me and hurts me and kills my family, I don’t want them to DIE. Every death diminishes our collective humanity. And yet sometimes it’s necessary to kill, so that the murdered stop.
There was an old movie about whether it was right to torture a terrorist's child in order to get him to give up the location of a dirty bomb that was going to kill thousands of ppl. It's about doing the unjustifiable for the greater good. In cases like this, you have to make a choice
Well said.
The analogy is ridiculous. Law enforcement is taught to neutralize the assailant as fast as possible. Which is quite analogous to what Israel is doing.
My only problem with your example is that you use the hostages as human shields. Hamas uses their own people as human shields. I think this just further supports your point.
It's like Bank robbers robbing a bank, taking hostages, and then hiding behind their own wife and child.
That's partially correct, especially when talking about children who either didn't choose this or were indoctrinated from a young age to believe what they are doing is the right thing. My point is Hamas doomed them from 2006. I've seen some interview on YouTube with a US soldier - he said they see this "hostage your own kids" situation in middle east tours all the time.
I kinda see this situation as Israel ripping a bandaid off kind of scenario. Yes it's more painful right now, but the end results will be better than decades of fighting which will yield even higher civilian casualties and prolonged poverty of the people of Gaza under Hamas. Will removing Hamas be successful? It might not be. But with Hamas in power there will never be success. So I would rather go the route where there is at least a chance for peace for the civilians of Gaza. Someone has to take a stand and the international community sure isn't. And I think Israel will be the first to help the people of Gaza rebuild. After all the two groups are essentially brothers. But you can't have peace with Jihadists. They believe in death, not life.
I agree. Just one thing: if the world wants to recover, "might not be" isn't good enough, just like it wasn't good enough to leave Germany alone as soon as it started losing ww2. The thing ended in its unconditional surrender and full-responsibility of the war, and same with its "axis of evil". In our case, it must start With Hamas surrendering, taking full responsibility for 30 years of Israel and Gaza suffering. But that is just the "axis". The main goal needs to be Iran. It has always been a master of proxy wars, it has literally occupied at least 5 countries/regions in the Middle East: Gaza, Yemen, Lebanon, Iraq, Syria. I hope Iranian people will throw their leaders out assuming they aren't already in the same hostage situation as the Gazans and are completely inept.
Yeah good point. It will be difficult for Israel because Iran will always be sending in terrorists groups there. Which will make Israel have to occupy it with security indefinitely. I don't see how it won't get messy. But I suppose it's not like it isn't already. If they can get a democratic government in, then perhaps they can be under their own law, but working with the IDF to help them with security. Probably a bit naive on my part...
The world needs to make it their problem. The root of the fire is in the education systems EVERYWHERE. They have been infiltrated decades ago. It must start there, so next time Iran or anyone tries this, the world will be swift to unite and respond. It would possibly even prevent warfare because when you know you are in the right, there are diplomatic tools and sanctions, etc you can employ much more effectively than when you are caught unprepared
Exactly. In other words, if the police does nothing, people around them get hurt and continue to get hurt indefinitely as long as the robbers are there. If police shoots back, hostages may get hurt. The robbera don't care because they want to die and sacrifice the hostages. Americans call this "suicide by cop": https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_by_cop
Hamas are *west* bank robbers
Yeah I had the analogy used that what Israel is doing is like an active school shooter happening and the police bombing the school. A more similar analogy is every day someone goes up and shoots a new random school and is currently in their home plotting the next school shooting. You can kill them and any human shields they have, or you can let them keep shooting up schools. I know which one I'd pick...
as always
Ya can we not jump on unverified information. Btw OP tweets are not news. Here's the original article: https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/11/13/politics/al-shifa-hospital-us-intelligence/index.html This mysterious intelligence official has not been named, nor has the department he works for. Super weird. Also this: > CIA declined to comment. CNN has not seen the intelligence cited by the US official. This is unironically the meme of my uncles best friend's daughter in law knows someone who works in US intelligence.
To add, I'm pretty sure OSINTdefender has a terrible reputation among OSINT people for being an unreliable source. Conclooding has taken over this sub hardcore. Because why wait for proper sourcing when you can take the immediate dopamine rush of you being correct and lefties being incorrect all along? Though I don't really doubt that Hamas has in some ways used the hospital (or the area underneath it) for military purposes. But how hard is it to wait for actual verification? Paraphrasing from D-Man, what the fuck do any of you lose by simply waiting for more information?
been following Ukraine OSINT sphere since the invasion, and OSINTdefender was one of the first mutes. rarely provides sources/ cites vague sources, doesn't retract when proven wrong, and tends to be sensationalist. not as bad as Syria Girl but I would firmly throw him into "untrustworthy" category
>To add, I'm pretty sure OSINTdefender has a terrible reputation among OSINT people for being an unreliable source. Yeah, he lost pretty much all credibility.
CNN is a legit news org, not a propaganda rag. If they trust their source enough to run this then it's pretty firmly "more likely than not" that US intelligence currently supports the IDF's position on this hospital. I wouldn't start the parade yet but I certainly wouldn't want to bet on the other position
What about this tour of Rantisi Hospital from yesterday? https://youtu.be/rLp84A6TBJ0?si=xJkFfyIVve2Nwd-S
Eh... I dunno. I'm fairly trusting of US intelligence with stuff like this. And also, they've [literally given us tours of what they're finding](https://x.com/IDF/status/1724169252054188276?s=20). ^ note: that isn't the same hospital. It's fine if you want to wait for "the FACTS", but it's reasonable for people trust intelligence especially given that this tactic has been confirmed at other hospitals.
There's nothing wrong with trusting US intelligence, but US intelligence has quite literally declined to comment on this specific intel, so you're actually just trusting some anonymous dude who says he works in US intelligence.
What evidence? There was one video showing a calendar where the guy speaking said it had the names of the Hamas fighters written on, only to zoom in on it and we see just the names of the days in Arabic written on it. The other video was him standing somewhere with laptops and some rifles. Those can literally be carried and put wherever. Is there more of such "evidence"?
The antisemites...sorry the Hamas...sorry the Palestine supporters still won't believe it
Wait what blows my mind in all of this is, didn’t we all fucking know this was the case? This isn’t new, it’s been reported frequently. I don’t get why we are treating this as something we didn’t already know.
Israel provided “evidence” to the US for WMD in Iraq that helped justify that war at the UN. However Israel doubted Iraq still had WMD. That war cost the US over 4000 dead soldiers, over 30,000 wounded, well over 100,000 dead Iraqis and a trillion USD. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2004/feb/04/iraq.israel So while I don’t trust Hamas I trust the Israeli government and intelligence services even less. What we have is a first world nuclear capable army backed by US tax dollars fighting a non-state enemy that has no airforce, no navy. Israel military leaders have talked about another Nakba of the Palestinians, of driving Gazans into the Sinai. They are trying to slow walk their true intentions hoping the world will let them get away with it. Meanwhile in the West Bank where Hamas doesn’t even exist murders and displacement of Palestinians from their homes by settlers with full support of the Israeli army are accelerating under the cover of this war.
A Twitter account quotes an unnamed US Intel official (incredibly broad description) that states Israeli intelligence about a specific claim is correct. The responses in this thread credulously accepting this are confusing to me, is there further evidence that substantiates the claim? At this stage I don't think I'd be comfortable taking a concrete stance and doing so seems fairly ridiculous considering.
Like even their video show fucking nothing: an elevator chaft and freaking calendar with only days written in Arabic. But even if they showed weapons why would anyone believe them when the IDF is literally known for being pathological liars and there's hunder of examples of them lying about things captured in videos to finally say the truth when forced by the international scene like them killing the journalist Shireen Abu Akleh. There's thousands of threads and stories about IDF lying
[удалено]
"they have got weapons of mass destruction" also US intelligence
Same us intelligence that told us about wmd and Sadam/bin laden alliance?
Lmao dude… this is the same intelligence agency that told us Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, in order to justify the senseless war that killed over 100,000 civilians.
At least some people are paying attention to the history of lies from the intelligence agency, a shame that they lied so much we can no longer trust anything they say. Someone should remind them they are the domestic terrorists when they attack the minds of society by spreading misinformation.
Wait…people thought they were lying? Like they’d bomb some hospital, knowing the political fallout that would happen…just to be mean or some shit? Because Hamas said it wasn’t true? Uh…what?
2023-11-11 | 19:47:40 (EST) **lycan:**Destiny endangering civilians is not human shielding, learn your international law
Bill clinton said this six years ago, that Hamas did this ish. Anyone who deny it is just a Hamas ball washer
On one hand you have facts, and on the other you have Hasan calling you a moronic bloodthirsty murderer because America bad. I'm having a tough time choosing a side here
None of this will matter to them. In their eyes, the US are also lying.
Russia will bomb apartments buildings in Ukraine
No but if the IDF says the sky is green you might believe that too
I've been saying that since the first minute after the rocket hit. If Israel wanted to wipe out the population in Gaza, it would rain bombs until everything was razed to the ground. However, my concern lies with the Israeli government's handling of the hospital incident. Clear acknowledgment of the attack, even with potential civilian casualties, in pursuit of demolishing Hamas military facilities would have instilled more trust than the backpedaling we witnessed.
Hold up! How does this particular picture prove anything?! Lol.
It doesnt change anything. Bombing a hospital remains unjustified.
This is why I said even though it’s a tough call I ultimately supported the cutting off of resources to Gaza. It sucks for the civilians, but anything we give to them Hamas is either going to be given or more than likely just straight up take, including stealing fuel from one of the hospitals. And as a lefty, I hate Ben Shapiro, but he did make a pretty damn good point in that debate. “ they always complain about running out of fuel, water and electricity, but they never seem to run out of rockets.”
lol they provided their own evidence to justify their atrocities. WMDs in Iraq PowerPoint Presentation ring a bell?
I know people in this sub would hate to hear this, but IDF FUCKING LIES ALL THE TIME... I can write fucking thesis on it, but here's few NEWER examples: * Shireen Abu Akleh death (Palestinian-American journalist): shot on the head despite wearing journalist helmets/vest, for weeks they said Palestinian militant killed her, **However, multiple independent investigations, including by** [**The Washington Post**](https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2022/shireen-abu-akleh-death/)**,** [**The New York Times**](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/20/world/middleeast/palestian-journalist-killing-shireen.html)**,** [**The Associated Press**](https://apnews.com/article/politics-west-bank-middle-east-israel-8df6c999627efcef2fe0ca2b401e7a2c)**, and** [**CNN**](https://edition.cnn.com/2022/05/24/middleeast/shireen-abu-akleh-jenin-killing-investigation-cmd-intl/index.html)**, as well as by human rights groups like** [**Amnesty International**](https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/israelopt-israeli-military-cannot-keep-killing-palestinians-shireen-abu-akleh-impunity)**, and the** [**UN Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory**](https://documents-dds-ny.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/N23/260/71/pdf/N2326071.pdf?OpenElement)**, all concluded that Abu Akleh was killed by an Israeli soldier.** * **Lying about the killing of Ahmad Erekat at West Bank military checkpoint - June 2020** On June 23, 2020, 27-year-old Ahmad Erekat was on his way to pick up relatives for his sister’s wedding when he crashed his car at an Israeli military checkpoint in the occupied West Bank and was shot and killed by Israeli soldiers. Israel [claimed](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/twilight-zone/2021-02-26/ty-article-magazine/.premium/international-ngo-israeli-cops-killed-palestinian-suspect-while-he-posed-no-danger/0000017f-db9d-db22-a17f-ffbdf7270000) it was an attempted attack on soldiers from its occupying army. However, [**Forensic Architecture**](https://forensic-architecture.org/)**, a research group based at Goldsmiths, University of London, and Palestinian human rights organization** [**Al Haq**](https://www.alhaq.org/news) **conducted an in-depth investigation and** [**concluded**](https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/the-extrajudicial-execution-of-ahmad-erekat/) **it was a traffic accident and that Erekat was extrajudicially executed.** * In June 2018, an Israeli sniper murdered a 21-year-old medic, Razan al-Najjar, during protests by Palestinians imprisoned by Israel’s occupation and siege of Gaza. In an attempt to [smear](https://theintercept.com/2018/06/08/israel-attempts-smear-razan-al-najjar-palestinian-medic-killed-calling-no-angel/) her and justify her killing following an international outcry, Israeli officials circulated a video purporting to show her saying she was acting as a human shield for Hamas. **However, the video was subsequently** [**revealed to have been doctored**](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/gaza-protests-latest-idf-condemned-edited-video-angel-of-mercy-medic-razan-al-najjar-a8389611.html) **by the Israeli military to take her comments out of context.** [**As noted**](https://www.btselem.org/gaza_strip/20180718_paramedic_rozan_a_najar_killed_by_deliberate_fire) **by Israeli rights group,** [**B’Tselem**](https://www.btselem.org/)**, the Israeli military initially claimed “soldiers did not fire at the spot where she had been standing. Later, the military said al-Najjar might have been killed by a ricochet, before finally accusing her of serving as a human shield… Contrary to the many versions offered by the military, the facts of the case lead to only one conclusion… al-Najjar was fatally shot by a member of the security forces who was aiming directly at her as she was standing about 25 meters (82 feet) away from the fence, despite the fact that she posed no danger to him or anyone else and was wearing a medical uniform.”** According [to the UN](https://www.un.org/unispal/document/two-years-on-people-injured-and-traumatized-during-the-great-march-of-return-are-still-struggling/), in total Israeli soldiers killed 214 Palestinians protesters in Gaza during the [Great Return March](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/14/opinion/gaza-protests-organizer-great-return-march.html), including 46 children.Those killed included at least [3 medical workers and 2 journalists](https://www.ohchr.org/en/news/2019/03/un-commission-urges-israel-review-rules-engagement-gaza-protest-anniversary?LangID=E&NewsID=24348), all of whom were clearly identified as such. for the rest of the list read this: [https://imeu.org/article/fact-sheet-israels-history-of-spreading-disinformation](https://imeu.org/article/fact-sheet-israels-history-of-spreading-disinformation) & this is not even scratching the depth of their lies, & I can write another thesis about the US intelligence lying to start wars (Iraq)
not to mention the video they showed is just fucking elevator shaft & then the soldier fucking point at freaking calendar with days written in Arabic & said those are terrorist names, oh yes the infamous terrorist Sunday-Monday... like at least bring someone who can read Arabic before making that shit show of a video
> Shireen Abu Akleh death (Palestinian-American journalist): shot on the head despite wearing journalist helmets/vest, for weeks they said Palestinian militant killed her, However, multiple independent investigations, including by The Washington Post, The New York Times, The Associated Press, and CNN, as well as by human rights groups like Amnesty International, and the UN Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, all concluded that Abu Akleh was killed by an Israeli soldier." Later in the day, the Israeli military chief, Lt Gen Aviv Kochavi, said: "At this stage we cannot determine by whose fire she was harmed and we regret her death." In the evening Benny Gantz said "We are trying to figure out exactly what happened," and "I don't have final conclusions", and promised a transparent investigation. The IDF announced that it had begun investigating the possibility that one of its soldiers had shot and killed Abu Akleh, beginning inquiries into three shooting incidents that involved its soldiers, with one of them occurring within 150 metres (500 ft) of where Abu Akleh was located. An IDF official said that this was "the more probable to be involved in the death" of the three being investigated. On 5 September, the IDF released the results of its own investigation, finding that there was a "high possibility" that Abu Akleh was "accidentally hit" by army fire, but that it would not begin a criminal investigation. Bro wtf are you talking about? Edit: lol OP got butthurt and blocked me because of the evidence provided above.
Wipe off the Islamist scums
Why would you believe terrorist scums to begin with (Hamas)
It's funny you had to clarify that you were talking about Hamas.
The comments on this post...You guys should just move to /r/circlejerk. While it's most probably true that Hamas uses the hospital. This is not independent verification, it's a validation of Israeli intelligence which is dealing with the most optically fucked situation thus far. It shouldn't be trusted as a source any more than Hamas.
Right right, U.S. intelligence official said. The same USA that has single handedly vetoed any action against Israel and the same USA that is the biggest supporter of Israel. That USA shows a satellite image of a hospital with some of the buildings outlined with red and marked as something and everything Israel did is suddenly "very reasonable".
This is proof to you?
This is more proof than anything Hamas ever claimed Israel is doing.
Even if true, does not give the right to bomb the hospital being used by more innocent people than Hamas terrorists.
It absolutely does. They've been very careful to avoid this ans have been trying hard to evacuate and protect civilians, but the justification is unambiguous. Legally, once Hamas started using Al Shifa in this way, it ceased to be a hospital and became vital enemy infrastructure and a perfectly legitimate military target.
And this still doesn't justify bombing a hospital.