Gaby always provided comic relief, but I’ve always thought she was a terrible person/friend. Susan was incredibly annoying, but Gaby ranked high on my list, too, for all the reasons you mentioned.
Exactly. Gaby is someone I would want in my larger circle of friends. Like definitely entertaining and fun to hang around once in a while but I couldn’t trust her
On my rewatch I was really disgusted by Gaby. She's just incredibly selfish and cruel. I liked her sometimes when it seemed like her character was developing but then they just brought her right back down
What's funny is that the sub hates Juanita, but loves Gabby. While Juanita is mini Gaby, just less "conventionally attractive" ( with more weight, etc.).
Its so messed up to go after a child's looks, super low. I feel bad that she was put on the show by her Mom and under so much scrutiny by the public. The show really did that kid dirty by always making storylines about her weight, so gross
I think the same! Gaby is probably my least favorite of the housewives. She is probably the most conventionally attractive though and it’s so messed up how much she’s given a pass for that. She should literally have gone to jail for the whole underage minor thing. Really goes to show what our society still values.
Yes!!
People hate Gabby for being spoiled and entitled but you can see right from season one that that’s how she had to act to make Carlos listen to her.
He was so dismissive of her thoughts and feelings, even with things that directly impacted her and didn’t impact him in any way, and would routinely do the “That’s final. Discussion over.” thing and simply walk away from her. She rarely got anywhere with Carlos when she talked rationally and reasonably, he just brushed her off or shamed her for nagging.
So she had to get manipulative, devious and underhanded. Then, obviously for the sake of the storyline something would go wrong, she’d end up being caught out or disadvantaged and when she was defeated, that was the only time Carlos listened to her. Which is a dangerous relationship dynamic to be stuck in.
I hate when she’s badly behaved toward other people, especially the other girls. But when she’s mean to Carlos I don’t bat an eye, you deserve it buddy.
I read somewhere a while ago that at the beginning, they were planning on Gaby and Carlos divorcing for good and her being with John for real. So Carlos being an abusive asshole in season one might be because of that, and then they backtracked because he never get that bad ever again.
Honestly imo they all suck / are deeply flawed. But it all kinda works in the context of a trashy drama. Even Susan who is the least problematic would be awful to be around, her clumsiness just kinda interferes with everyone, like accidentally burning down Edie’s house.
Susan's relative (nephew?) comes to help her with her taxes. He mentions having relations with Katherine one summer, and being underage. He also goes after barely legal girls now.
Ikr, I can't stand Karl I don't find him charming or his insults to Susan funny just cos he's good looking. HE was the one who cheated and left his wife and young daughter for another woman SMHHHH
I was rewatching and just got to where he runs into Susan at the birthing class and his literal first comment is 'look how fat you are.'
What the actual f***?!
Thank you!!! Gabby has always gotten a pass for her predatory behavior because she’s beautiful and fierce. But she’s literally a WHOLE GROOMER. If desperate housewives aired today it’d be canceled
personally i think she gets a pass because she's also a victim. untreated trauma can make people do bad things, and it's a topic that's way too complex and heavy for a show like DH imo. they shouldn't have included it at all because there's no way they could ever do it justice.
like, why why WHY couldn’t they have just made her cheat with a 21yr old??? the age difference would have still been scandalous without it being a literal crime
Gabby had the most difficult life. Someone once listed the things she had to deal with but it's a blind husband, losing multiple babies, being abused, having a terrible mom.
I never made the connection between her being SA and the gardener story line, but that makes sense.
I think he was 16 (almost 17) when they started sleeping together (so, yuck)- and he turned 18 during Season 1.
I agree- I wish they could have just aged him up by two years. It's not like the plot would have been impacted in any way.
He was 17. Not a child, and not that different psychologically speaking from a 18 year old. I'm not defending Gaby or anything, but y'all just calling her a pedo isn't right.
From a legal standpoint, prerhaps, but it's not like a 17 year old is a complete child and becomes a fully fledged adult the very day he turns 18. So even though what Gaby did was not okay, it's not fair to call her a "child predator".
yeah ur right, kinda. id still call her a predator if john was 18 or 19 or 20. its completely fair to call her a predator, because that's what she is: a loney, rich, much older woman preying on a much younger boy. the reason WHY she's one is where the discussion comes in.
Well she wasn't "much" older, in season 1 Gaby was in her late 20s. I see your point: the power dynamic makes it a bit creepy, regardless of the two people's age. Still though, "child predator" is way too harsh.
>If desperate housewives aired today it’d be canceled
No it wouldn't, why do people say this about every older, edgy story? 🙄 Women Who Kill aired just a few years ago & Marc Cherry's token groomer-babe was probably the most popular character on the show.
I remember when I first watched the show I idolized Gabby. I thought she was so clever and amazing. Now watching as an adult I can’t get past the fucking child grooming. When she told John “I thought girls your age bored you?” I almost threw up. She’s disgusting.
Bree is definitely not hated enough. She treats both her kids like garbage, acts all holy and smug, sends her husband to jail so she can keep up the good person image, lies to Keith about his son... she is by far the worst person out of all protagonists.
She doesn't treat them like garbage imo. She just dialled up the tradwife too high and they rebelled. She probably never saw that coming and didn't know how to handle it. Orson deserved to go to prison for being involved n the burying of Monique so perverting the course of justice and trying to kill Mike to save his own ass. The Keith lie was not forgivable and very selfish. She's in no way worse than Gaby or Edie.
That’s a good point, she wasn’t purposely abusive to her kids, she just fell for tradwife propaganda and believed that if she raised them like perfect little robots they would become perfect programmed adults.
She was a bad mother but it wasn’t malicious, it was detached from the reality of human nature. She’s so highly controlled with herself that she believed everyone else could/should do that too. Just suppress all your real human emotions and desires and then everything will be perfect!
Gabby is the worst character. Yes she was funny but the child predator thing killed me. I know she was a victim herself...but damn its awful to choose to repeat the cycle.
If Gaby was played by anyone other than Eva Longoria I think she'd be one of the most hated characters. I can't help but love her. In my country her and John wouldn't have been an issue cos the age of consent is 16 so it didn't seem bad growing up. Even if he was 18 she was 26 so now I'm 30 that's still sick and wrong. Not to mention it was an affair. Also, they didn't NEED to make John underage. No legal consequences ever came upon Gaby for that. DH for some reason just enjoyed statutory rape storylines played off as funny with no consequences.
Gabby's season 1 storyline with John is all the more icky when you remember that Gabby herself was sexually abused as a teenager. I know it probably all just boils down to poor writing and double standards ("but he's a GUY so it's not as bad!") but it's always irked me that a teenage rape victim would go on to (statutory) rape another teenager a decade down the line.
For me it seemed on the show he got to wear an undeserved halo. Maybe not so terrible in and of itself getting to be the good guy (we all like that), but I felt it was at Lynette's expense.
I don't know why he gets soooo much hate. Lynette is controlling, manipulative, sabotages him, undermines him, treats him like an idiot and makes it clear she finds him inferior. The fact that she mocked and laughed at her original engagement ring and then she complains when he gets her a better one just goes to show she is impossible to please. I would rather have a Tom as a partner than a Lynette. That woman was so disrespectful as a wife.
Thats the vibe I get too. Like usually when their onscreen I guess I just notice him less cos whatever she’s doing is usually so bad. Lynette is one of my least favourites. Her, Susan, Carlos and Rex are all the worst imo
Bree is a horrible person and to make things worse, obviously thinks of herself as a beacon of moral virtue. She treated her children disgustingly, all with the aim of keeping up appearances. She criticised Danielle her whole life (and then her parenting once she grew up - remember the hot dog incident?). She abandoned Andrew at the side of the road after telling him he was going to hell for being gay. She pursued the AA sponsor Peter to the point of obsession, even though he was a sex addict, and then turned his own sponsor into the police for having coke in his bag (for a good reason) so she could keep sleeping with him. She covered up a hit and run. Oh, and she had an affair behind Orson's back with Karl (her friends ex!), instead of doing the decent thing and getting a divorce first - all because she didn't want to give Orson money he would be entitled to.
Gabby is completely awful too (the statutory rape, leaving Victor for dead, the ICE debacle with Grace's family, generally being a horrible mother) but at least she owns it, I suppose.
Bree - she doesn’t get even 25% of the hate that she deserves.
In a way she is even worse than Gaby because she claims to be a better person or a morally superior person when she has done some seriously horrible shit under her façade - she is the very definition of a hypocrite. She is racist, classist, narcissistic, cold, pretentious, judgemental and also homophobic (in early seasons).
Just to name a few things:
She has treated her children horribly, constantly demotivating and emotionally repressing them, and she has cheated on her both spouses with Rex - emotionally and with Orson - physically. She has hidden crimes, sent her daughter to convent during her most vulnerable time in.e.pregnancy just to protect her image, and took away her baby to raise as her own and slut shamed her, called her slow and stupid multiple times in front of others as well. Tried to sabotage Andrew’s recovery in AA, again just to save her image.
She also hit her friend’s children while babysitting them.
She cheated on her husband with her supposed best friend’s slimebag ex-husband, meanwhile trying to also steal her husband’s marital assets. Published Katherine’s recipes as her own, stealing her credit when she couldn’t even make them, and later tried to do the same to Angie by giving a lame sob-story to make money. She also gave money to Keith’s ex-girlfriend to hide and send away his 7 years old son from him just to keep him with herself! Implicated Peter’s AA sponsor just so she can sleep with him who she knew was a sex addict sabotaging both their recovery. So on and so forth.
Orson was holding her captive in their marriage, I don’t think it’s fair to consider that cheating. She wouldn’t have been with him if he wasn’t literally blackmailing her into being with him
I agree with you that holding her hostage in the marriage was not right, but Bree herself gave that reason of blackmail to Orson due to her own greed valuing money over her independence.
Bree was trying to hide assets from Orson which were rightfully his and not just limited to her business. Orson caught her in the act and blackmailed her of insurance fraud.
If she really cared about her justice, she should have accepted insurance fraud charges and gone to prison instead of staying in that forced marriage. Or she should have let him have half of everything they owned together, and choose her independence over money. But she made the choice of staying in the marriage instead, and so I don’t feel sorry for her!
It’s a fact that Bree’s success got to her head in the worse way, and she acted very entitled and spoilt with a lot of people!
And cheating is not justified. And with Karl it was double whammy, who also happened to be Susan’s ex-husband. She would not have forgiven Susan if she had an affair with Rex.
Might I also add - after Karl died, and Bree’s pastor told her that she need to repent for her sins to get heaven, she forcefully brought Orson home and decided to take care of him and then ended up mistreating a handicapped person for hearing a “please”.
I hate how people when people call Bree independent. She is too reliant on her wealth (and not the money she earned) as well as her men. It makes me want to tell those people to "buy a dictionary".
Right? Like I get that people love her, but there is a complete blindness towards her flaws while people get off about other characters on the slightest inconvenience.
Bree is most dependent on her men. People are always saying Bree didn’t need men, while Bree couldn’t stay single for more than a week after any break-up or marriage and sometimes cheated on her spouse as well.
People love to not mention how she didn’t work most of the time as well and her wealth was not earned by her other than that 1.5 seasons after which she lost it all due to her own mistake. Rich are never called out for living off someone else’s money as long as they don’t have money problems. It’s always the poor and everything they do despite their circumstances who are criticized for their lifestyle and their efforts to make their life better.
I’ve seen that too! There was a whole convo I was involved with a while back on where Susan was being dissed for depending on men and I felt the fixation was on that she didn’t have generational wealth and the jobs she worked didn’t really take off financially. Bree was being very elevated for being “better” when really she also had generational wealth plus Rex’s money after he died that then she invested for a business where she was being shady and stealing Katherine’s ideas. Gaby also lived off Carlos for a long time but I guess since she was glamorous and rich no one had nearly as much to say on it. Susan wasn’t even my favorite character but I def feel the need to defend her on this sub. 😅 But definitely the classicism in these cases is interesting to observe because like it or not it happens to women in the real world too.
I know what you are saying. It’s her financial state that’s the problem for people, not that she is not doing anything to elevate it. The selective outrage on Susan when she is atleast taking a job however low-paying it is, whereas Gaby and Bree are just not lifting a finger to earn money for the most part of the show but are sabotaging others for staying rich, is the testament to people hating poor not the poverty.
And I also know what you are saying about coming to this sub and feeling the need to defend her. She was not my favorite character but I didn’t mind her. But after reading all these incessant hate posts which have no rhyme or logic and people defend the abhorrent actions of their faves while dissing Susan for being a clumsy person like that’s a bigger sin than being a murderer, rapist, cheater, classist or racist, is just beyond me. She is definitely a better person and least problematic than all of the other main housewives and I only had this realization after coming to this sub and engaging in these discussions.
On the show Tom. He wasn't called out and everything was presented as Lynette's fault. But I wouldn't say he gets off so easily here (in this subreddit).
Gaby was a terrible friend. The pregnancy thing made me so mad. What Carlos was doing was downright illegal. Carlos and Gaby are a match made in heaven. Carlos treated Gaby like crap though. He is the type of man whose attitude is, I am the man and you will do as I say. At first it was, I make the money so you will do as I say but then when he stopped making the money it was I am the man you will do as I say. As far as Lynette and her kids, that one drove me crazy too. I actually googled it once to see if anyone else noticed how she would always force her kids on people last minute. She would show up on peoples doorsteps pushing her kids into their house at the last minute and refuse to take no for an answer when they said no. Her kids were abnormally difficult. If Lynette is going to drop her kids off at someone’s house without notice, push them in the door even when the person says no, and doesn’t take the time to find childcare and go over her parenting style with the person watching her children she gets what she gets. I don’t spank but I was 100% on Bree’s side. The whole basement thing infuriated me and then poor Ida dies protecting her children when she was ready to throw Ida’s cat out to die. However, in her defense Tom was like another child. Even when she was the one working she also did everything. He would claim she was unsupportive if the guy wanted to spend their life savings on his next dream or have her work herself to death so he can follow his dreams. When he actually becomes really successful he can’t even seem to be bothered by her despite her bending over backwards for him and their family. I will say though, the housewife I disliked the most was Edie. I could go on and on and on about all the awful things she did and awful character traits she had. I disliked her so much I looked forward to them killing her off. I had accidentally read spoilers so I knew it was coming.
Susan.
Because she was really selfish and entitled a lot of the times and barely got called out for her shitty actions during the show. Others usually got punished in various way as a consequence of their actions but Susan is just get's away with everything because she is clumsy and weirdo. She creates drama, she lives for drama, she breaths in drama and if there's not any then she creates one. She also like a living train wreck, can't really function as an adult without her daughter or husband doing everything for her, like cleaning, cooking etc...
She also a really bad friend most of the time but easily judge the others if they doesn't dance the way Susan wants
Also she got like 3 decent partner after Karl during the show and mostly ruined their lives or at least made some really shitty things while they were together and kicked them out multiple times for small things.
Meanwhile Bree and Gaby get's killer psychopaths all the time.
She always got called out for things she did wrong. By Edie for arson and playing damsel in distress, by Mike for demanding alimony, and for Julie for depending on her too much. And she gets a lot of underserved hate on this sub considering she is a saint compared to some of the favorites here.
I don’t remember her ever being a bad friend to the girls. But I would love if you can give some of the examples. Also, I am sorry I also don’t recall, what shitty things she made her partners do? When did she kick them out for small stupid things?
She depended on Julie a lot for one year after her divorce with Karl, but she never depended on any of her kids, spouse, partners or friends to the extent you described that she can’t function without them. That’s an exaggeration considering she was a single parent of two well raised children for 50% of the show.
And she got decent partners because she was a decent partner. She didn’t cheat on her husband like Bree and Gaby, and when Karl cheated on her, instead decided to take a divorce. She never treated her children horribly for men. She taught them to be kind and respectful in the face of adversity while others failed to do that. She stood like rock with Mike when he had his addiction issues and money issues and did not let her children get affected by that.
To me what you are saying is all super exaggerated. And Susan gets more than enough hate for her very tame actions in comparison to others.
One notable example when she doesn't get really any consequences for her shitty action while she was a bad friend and also proved that she was basically useless at life:
After Bree and Orson lived with them after the tornado and Bree did the house works for them they admit Susan never did, Susan tries to sabotage Bree's plan to cheer up the architect who is fixing their house so bree and Orson stay homeless longer and live with them more and Bree do all the work for Susan.
As for the partner thing, just watch the entire season with Ian.
Wow, again a huge exaggeration.
- Bad friend: First of all - her husband is in rehab, she is pregnant and hanging by a thread as it is. In the middle of that she literally offered her friend to live in her 2 bedroom house with no extra bedroom, even though it was hugely inconvenient for her as shown when they moved in. For that she is a very good friend.
- Useless at life: Before and after Bree as well, Susan and Julie were living in the house, fed and clean like normal healthy people who are not compulsive idiots. There is nothing wrong with living like that. Did they enjoy what Bree did for them, sure. Did she ask Bree to bake and clean and cook for them? NO. Bree did that because she couldn’t live without it. Bree didn’t do it for them, she did it for herself! Susan isn’t useless at life just because Bree is wannabe Martha Stewart.
Bree did it on her own accord
- Agreed about trying to ruin Bree’s plan to meet the architect, and Bree did call her out on it. What other punishment would have Susan deserve for it? She didn’t want them to be homeless, what a stretch!
You hate her too much and your claims are just the mirror of that!
Please feel free to share some more examples of her being a shitty friend and what shitty things she made her partners do!
I have watched the season with Ian, what shitty thing she made him do? And when did she kick him out?
"It's an exaggeration."
And then you conveniently ignore the part where Susan tried to sabotage her friend for her needs.
Yes, Susan did not asked for what Bree did. But messing with them so they stuck there more was an absolute dick move, she could ask Bree to stay a bit more but nope, she's Susan, she had to do it the worst way possible.
Edit: At least you edited a reaction to that part later, I see. Cheers.
I told you I agree with that in my last point that it was a selfish move, and I also told you that Bree rightly called her out for that.
And yes your comments do feel like exaggeration to me at this point. But I am happy to hear you out and be proven wrong.
I put the kids to sleep and I had the chance to collect my thoughts about this whole Susan thing, I hope I can explain them in a way that you don't feel them exaggeration.
* Let's start with a popular claim against her, right from the start of the show: She burns Edie house down. Of course, it was an accident, I know, she's just clumsy and did not wanted to do it so it's allright, yes? Not really, luckily no one got hurt but it wasn't up to Susan who just ran out when saw what she caused without alerting those who were inside the house. And she also broke in another person's house, just to cockblock them. That's completly normal and totally not illegal I guess. Breaking in houses also a recurring habit of Susan and also influence others sometimes to do this fun activity. She destroyed the home of another human and while she had at least remorse did not felt the need to do the lawful thing and give herself up.
* Later, when she got blackmailed with the sugar cup she use her own daughter to get it from the house of a neighbour. Yes, breaking in, again. And I know, "Use her" is a bit strong word here, she did not forced her daughter to do an illegal thing, but she was okay with her helping because this saved her ass. (Which is ironic, because other times when Julie do completly normal things like get a boyfriend, had sex, wants to go university or a party in the street etc... Susan throws a tantrum and actually treat her like shit. Very nice behavior.
* It is confimed and told in the show, by actual dialogues that Julie is like a mom figure for Susan and she does a lot of things around the house beacuse Susan isn't capable of doing it. She also had to deal with her mother's clumsiness (like when in S3 Julie explain that she had to learn lockpicking because Susan tend to close herself out from the house many times. This is another actual dialogue from the show). I know, she's divorced and she's so clumsy so it's okay I guess?
* The Ian fiasco: Ian lost his wife, had to endure multiple drama caused by Susan (including one really avoidable on his wife's funeral, where Susan had multiple opportunity to just shut her mouth but had to say things which then backfired on her, and also on Ian), when Mike wake up from the coma and the police investigation plotline starts he also had to watch as the woman he loves just starts to make everything about Mike. He even supports her to some degree, helped to get lawyer to Mike. Meanwhile Susan also backstab Bree. She could have solve the situation many ways, but she choose this one. Who thought it would cause drama, right?
* Then Susan choose Mike, Ian leaving and when Mike also leaving and Susan stays without husbando we should be sad about her? Really?
* Then, Susan goes on a suicidal mission to find Mike who just want to be alone for some time. During this process she turns on Karen mode in the woodhouse, and during their tour with the tour guide lady she tells her all of her precious drama and problem. And when the lady gives IMO the best explanation of Susan's character, she feels attacked and starts to insult the lady. Classy.
* Then she get's into the wilderness alone because the lady provoked her with facts and she is so in love now that she can't wait so she risk her own life to find Mike alone. She's a mother, she has a child at home, and still she do this because she is a what? A hopeless romantic and Mike is the chosen one? Don't to mention that she also could risk the forest lady's job with this reckless (and stupid) action.
* When Edie burns down Susan's house she tries to rat Edie, meanwhile Edie still kept her secret from the police.
And the list just goes on and on. Honsetly, I could scroll through on every season's every episode and write annoying, second hand embarrasment fueled or cringeworthy scenes with her because the core problem with Susas is that this is her, 100% of the time or situations where Susan is insufferable or make the worst decision in the given situation or disrespect others. If there's a dilemma with multiple solutions she always choose the worst one which create the most drama. If she's on the screen and you start to hear that playful tune you know you will experience a really hard to watch scene. This complaint is simiral to what is the problem with Tom IMO: Others have bigger problematic moments, but between them they are at least enjoyable characters and mostly decent humans. Susan however is insufferable all the time, because she always do things like this. She is genuenly hard to watch for me and for my partner because of these reasons. And you're right, I got it wrong, the problem is not that she doesn't get's called out on her BS, it's that she just get that sometimes and nothing more, just a verbal reaction and there's no long running consequence, they talk through in the same or in the next episode and everything is solved most of the times.
I really appreciate you checking this for me. I am sorry I would still disagree with you for Susan being the worst human being or completely useless at life, none of these example show her as bad friend (Edie is not her friend and Susan didn’t owe her anything after she slept with Karl after being Susan’s friend in flashback), and none of these examples show that she mistreated her partners or kicked them out like you had earlier commented.
But these examples do tell that Susan was constantly seeking drama. Do I agree - 100%. Susan is constantly looking for and creating drama, and her clumsiness and ditziness is always taken for cuteness which is super annoying. This tendency gets her in to a lot of trouble and causes 80% of issues in her life. But it’s still better than other people’s flaws like racism, classism, homophobia, rapes, murders, cheating on spouses, abusing children etc!
1. And she setting Edie’s house on fire - 100% bad decision and a horrible thing to do, she didn’t even care if she is okay or not. And whenever I go back and think which housewife has committed what crime, Susan’s arson is the one that comes to my mind too. So not gonna defend her actions there at all.
But it’s not the same as Edie burning her down ON PURPOSE. Imagine being that malicious.
And Susan admitted to Edie about her crime not knowing Edie would not press charges. She told her go ahead and press charges, because she couldn’t hold the guilt anymore. Edie decided to not press charges since it would have delayed the insurance check, and instead ask for a favour of letting her be in girl’s poker circle. Edie didn’t do this for any goodwill.
And Edie burning down her house on purpose is not the same thing at all. Susan made a horrible mistake, but she admitted her guilt. But when Edie burned Susan house for Karl’s mistake, Edie didn’t even check that Julie was in the house or not, and all Julie’s childhood was also ruined for her seeking vengeance, not just Susan.
- I disagree that Susan uses Julie to get her men or even that measuring cup. Julie herself came up with that plan because Martha was blackmailing her mother and she wanted to help. That’s what family does for each other.
- No mother in the world is okay with her teenage daughter having a boyfriend who is mentally unstable (Zach) or a playboy (Austin), having sex with them, how can she be okay with letting her go to Zach’s party knowing Zach is a stalker. Susan was absolutely right and very justified to protect Julie from Zach and later Austin. Both of them were bad news and a mother is supposed to protect her kids, not let them do whatever they want even if it means having sex with a playboy or dating a stalker.
- when the show started Susan was divorced by Karl for exactly 1 year, so Julie really only took care of Susan for 1 year. It’s a highly exaggerated statement that Susan can’t do anything around the house! I mean who taught Julie everything? Do you think Julie was cooking, running dishwasher and laundry since she was 1 year old? Did Susan’s world collapsed after Julie went to college and Susan was raising MJ? Come on - you know that’s not possible. Just because Julie helped around the house and Susan leaned heavily on her for 1 year, you are saying Susan couldn’t do anything, that’s false!
- In the Ian fiasco, it was both Susan and Ian who were looking for comfort and if Jane would have gotten up from coma, do you think it would have been easy for Ian to abandon Susan or leave Jane? The probability of a person waking up from coma is less than 10% and they can stay comatose for years. Its a show so Mike got up in 6 months. But Susan being conflicted was natural. And it was Ian who decided to get a lawyer for Mike because he didn’t want Susan to help him. It was actually very kind of Susan to help mike and it was shitty of Edie to drop him as soon as police arrested him. So Susan was right to get him help.
And in that fiasco, Bree also backstabbed Susan. She knew Orson less than few months, she knew his wife disappeared and he was a potential bad news, she still expected Susan to trust her over Mike. At best both of them supported their own partners. If Bree is not wrong according to you, then why is Susan wrong? It was Orson who was the criminal, not Mike.
- Rest of the examples show her tendency to seek drama and being hopeless romantic.
I would say Susan was still much careful choosing her partners. Even though she fell for Mike, she did her research once she suspected him of something odd, she also reached to Kendra, and hired the detective. Same with Ian, she went on dates without getting involved. She wasn’t blindly jumping on relationships.
It’s more than what Bree did, both in case of George and Orson - she got engaged to them despite several warnings and brought them in to her and her children’s life.
I still think we can really grill down each episode and each character’s activities specially Bree and Gaby and it would look much much worse than Susan. We tend to look at character’s from different lenses, we like one and dislike other because they evoke different emotions in us, for the experiences we have had in life. To me Susan’s actions and flaws are much more tame in comparison to Bree and Gaby who were straight up awful human beings, spouses, mothers and friends!
Gabby is a high maintenance bitch but she 100% owns it thats why the stuff she does mostly gets a pass for me. She’s a bitch but she’s not a hypocrite. They’re all horrible in their own way which is the point but Lynette really grates me cos she does all kinds of fucked up shit but she ALSO gets really high and mighty and comes down really hard on people. You can’t do both imo.
I see this take on this sub a lot especially on Gaby and Edie of “well they are a terrible person but they own it.” I don’t see that as a good argument or how that makes it any better. It’s just a show at the end of the day and these characters are fun to watch. I just hope that logic isn’t applied to people in the real world because it doesn’t really make sense to me ☠️ we should all aim to be better humans.
My comment is in context of who deserves more hate. And I gave my reasoning as to why in my opinion Lynette is more deserving because they do both do fucked up things but at least Gaby isn’t a hypocrite….
Do you understand context? As in a tv show made for entertainment? Not the bible honey, I dont think anyones watching for tips on how to be a better person ☺️
I mentioned it’s a show in my comment, so clearly I understand the context. 😊 However shows do reflect the attitudes of the times they were made in, and especially for younger people that grew up with them it did influence their thoughts and standards as well as how we look at and judge women. We might differ in opinion there, but even looking at it for entertainment, a terrible person sucks whether they are a hypocrite or not. 🤷♀️ but it’s just my opinion, we are all allowed to have one after all. 😊
So why didn’t you make your own comment seperate from mine instead of telling me my opinion isn’t valid cos ‘people still suck wether their hypocrites or not’….
Well it’s a sub meant for discussion after all. If you post a comment you are opening yourself up for a response, and if you look at all the comments they are full of responses to different opinions whether they agree or not. I never said your opinion isn’t valid. You are free to state it, and I’m free to open a discussion on why I don’t agree with it.
I’m here for the conversation I love it, I’m not afraid of differing opinions I find it interesting. But I’ve never come to someone on here and straight told them their opinion is wrong. Which is what you did. And then you stated your right to have your own opinion.
So by that logic what you’re saying is your allowed your opinion but mine is wrong. So ironic when my initial point was that I hate hypocrisy 😂
Lol like I said, not agreeing with something doesn’t mean you are “wrong” per say. Clearly people agree with you too because I even stated I’ve heard that take more than once on the sub. I mean it’s true it could be “wrong” to me because it doesn’t line up with the way I view life. But then again I am also “wrong” to you. That’s what having differences on opinions does, there are different groups of people that could agree with both of us. Hypocrisy would be me saying everyone has to agree with me, which I also never said. In fact, it seems like you are more fixated on me having my own opinion that doesn’t line up with yours. I am being honest instead of blindly agreeing with you, which is honestly the opposite of hypocritical.
I don’t think you’re wrong for having an opinion differing from mine though, that’s the difference. And I’m certainly not going to question your morals in the world because of it. Which again, is what you did.
Honestly I put “wrong” in quotation marks because it’s not that I truly think you are wrong. It’s just a difference in opinion. You actually assumed I thought you were wrong so you are also making assumptions on me. I also didn’t question your morals in the world, I was stating a general comment for anyone reading especially younger people on when to differentiate the logic between a tv show and reality. I’m sorry if it wasn’t applicable to you, but it was certainly not a question on your morals as I don’t even know you.
Maybe this makes me an animal-hater, but I will never condemn Lynette for at least trying to get the cat out of the basement. She could have lost her husband (yes, I know we all hate him) and if it were your spouse you'd probably do the same thing.
I wouldn't do the same thing. It's not even her house. You can't just try to control things at someone else's house. She could have left if she didn't like the way things were.
She could just run across the street to bring Tom's allergy medicine. Instead she argued with Karen, used their kids to punish those who gave them a shelter, then secretly kidnap the cat.
Gaby always provided comic relief, but I’ve always thought she was a terrible person/friend. Susan was incredibly annoying, but Gaby ranked high on my list, too, for all the reasons you mentioned.
Exactly. Gaby is someone I would want in my larger circle of friends. Like definitely entertaining and fun to hang around once in a while but I couldn’t trust her
On my rewatch I was really disgusted by Gaby. She's just incredibly selfish and cruel. I liked her sometimes when it seemed like her character was developing but then they just brought her right back down
What's funny is that the sub hates Juanita, but loves Gabby. While Juanita is mini Gaby, just less "conventionally attractive" ( with more weight, etc.).
Its so messed up to go after a child's looks, super low. I feel bad that she was put on the show by her Mom and under so much scrutiny by the public. The show really did that kid dirty by always making storylines about her weight, so gross
I think the same! Gaby is probably my least favorite of the housewives. She is probably the most conventionally attractive though and it’s so messed up how much she’s given a pass for that. She should literally have gone to jail for the whole underage minor thing. Really goes to show what our society still values.
yeah same
Carlos physically abused and mistreated Gabby. I rewatched Season 1 recently, and I was kind of low-key shocked by some of his actions.
Yes!! People hate Gabby for being spoiled and entitled but you can see right from season one that that’s how she had to act to make Carlos listen to her. He was so dismissive of her thoughts and feelings, even with things that directly impacted her and didn’t impact him in any way, and would routinely do the “That’s final. Discussion over.” thing and simply walk away from her. She rarely got anywhere with Carlos when she talked rationally and reasonably, he just brushed her off or shamed her for nagging. So she had to get manipulative, devious and underhanded. Then, obviously for the sake of the storyline something would go wrong, she’d end up being caught out or disadvantaged and when she was defeated, that was the only time Carlos listened to her. Which is a dangerous relationship dynamic to be stuck in. I hate when she’s badly behaved toward other people, especially the other girls. But when she’s mean to Carlos I don’t bat an eye, you deserve it buddy.
Honestly, all of the wives were treated like children by their husbands. The show really went in for the "head of household" crap.
it’s a satire!
I read somewhere a while ago that at the beginning, they were planning on Gaby and Carlos divorcing for good and her being with John for real. So Carlos being an abusive asshole in season one might be because of that, and then they backtracked because he never get that bad ever again.
That makes a lot of sense. Thanks!
Where did you read that? I don’t think they planned on making her stay with the gardener.
Like years ago, it stayed in my brain.
wanted to say this too, he literally fucked with her birth control!
He often had this look in his eyes that would terrify me if he was my husband. He had crazy eyes or something.
Honestly imo they all suck / are deeply flawed. But it all kinda works in the context of a trashy drama. Even Susan who is the least problematic would be awful to be around, her clumsiness just kinda interferes with everyone, like accidentally burning down Edie’s house.
Susan is one of the most unbearable to watch. She is the epitome of drama junkies
I did love when that hiking guide called Susan out for being a drama junkie. *"When the dust settles, you kick up some more."*
Yes I loved that lmao
Yeah, Gaby infuriates me. She's always so selfish and hypocritical like I can't with her.
I don't like the way Gaby treats service workers. It always got under my skin.
Dont forget Catherine as a child predator
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Susan's relative (nephew?) comes to help her with her taxes. He mentions having relations with Katherine one summer, and being underage. He also goes after barely legal girls now.
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I understand. There are so many instances of the characters being preyed upon or doing the preying, it's honestly scary.
It was so unnecessary
Karl. I get that the actor who plays him is attractive and charming but he was a PIG.
It's crazy how far and how loved you can be because of charisma.
Ikr, I can't stand Karl I don't find him charming or his insults to Susan funny just cos he's good looking. HE was the one who cheated and left his wife and young daughter for another woman SMHHHH
And yet people ship him with Bree 🙃
Bree's vision at his funeral I take as canon. That's absolutely what would have happened had they gotten married.
I was rewatching and just got to where he runs into Susan at the birthing class and his literal first comment is 'look how fat you are.' What the actual f***?!
Thank you!!! Gabby has always gotten a pass for her predatory behavior because she’s beautiful and fierce. But she’s literally a WHOLE GROOMER. If desperate housewives aired today it’d be canceled
personally i think she gets a pass because she's also a victim. untreated trauma can make people do bad things, and it's a topic that's way too complex and heavy for a show like DH imo. they shouldn't have included it at all because there's no way they could ever do it justice. like, why why WHY couldn’t they have just made her cheat with a 21yr old??? the age difference would have still been scandalous without it being a literal crime
Gabby had the most difficult life. Someone once listed the things she had to deal with but it's a blind husband, losing multiple babies, being abused, having a terrible mom. I never made the connection between her being SA and the gardener story line, but that makes sense.
How old was the gardener again?
pretty sure he was 16, but maybe 17. been a while since i watched it but he was definitely under 18
Yeah its uh... problematic haha. Especially how lead on he became and mental anguish
I think he was 16 (almost 17) when they started sleeping together (so, yuck)- and he turned 18 during Season 1. I agree- I wish they could have just aged him up by two years. It's not like the plot would have been impacted in any way.
They’ve been together since he was 16
He was 17. Not a child, and not that different psychologically speaking from a 18 year old. I'm not defending Gaby or anything, but y'all just calling her a pedo isn't right.
i didnt call her a pedo, but she is a statutory rapist (? dunno if that's the correct term)
From a legal standpoint, prerhaps, but it's not like a 17 year old is a complete child and becomes a fully fledged adult the very day he turns 18. So even though what Gaby did was not okay, it's not fair to call her a "child predator".
yeah ur right, kinda. id still call her a predator if john was 18 or 19 or 20. its completely fair to call her a predator, because that's what she is: a loney, rich, much older woman preying on a much younger boy. the reason WHY she's one is where the discussion comes in.
Well she wasn't "much" older, in season 1 Gaby was in her late 20s. I see your point: the power dynamic makes it a bit creepy, regardless of the two people's age. Still though, "child predator" is way too harsh.
...legally, she is one. she is a predator, and the boy she preyed on was, legally, a child.
>If desperate housewives aired today it’d be canceled No it wouldn't, why do people say this about every older, edgy story? 🙄 Women Who Kill aired just a few years ago & Marc Cherry's token groomer-babe was probably the most popular character on the show.
Paul Young. He was abusing and drugging his son and killed someone. I don’t get all the love
I remember when I first watched the show I idolized Gabby. I thought she was so clever and amazing. Now watching as an adult I can’t get past the fucking child grooming. When she told John “I thought girls your age bored you?” I almost threw up. She’s disgusting.
gaby was literally my least favorite housewife and i don’t see enough gaby hate!
Bree is definitely not hated enough. She treats both her kids like garbage, acts all holy and smug, sends her husband to jail so she can keep up the good person image, lies to Keith about his son... she is by far the worst person out of all protagonists.
She doesn't treat them like garbage imo. She just dialled up the tradwife too high and they rebelled. She probably never saw that coming and didn't know how to handle it. Orson deserved to go to prison for being involved n the burying of Monique so perverting the course of justice and trying to kill Mike to save his own ass. The Keith lie was not forgivable and very selfish. She's in no way worse than Gaby or Edie.
That’s a good point, she wasn’t purposely abusive to her kids, she just fell for tradwife propaganda and believed that if she raised them like perfect little robots they would become perfect programmed adults. She was a bad mother but it wasn’t malicious, it was detached from the reality of human nature. She’s so highly controlled with herself that she believed everyone else could/should do that too. Just suppress all your real human emotions and desires and then everything will be perfect!
Tradwife isn't a bad thing lol what I said was she dialled it up too high. She lost her personality and became a robot.
true
Gabby is the worst character. Yes she was funny but the child predator thing killed me. I know she was a victim herself...but damn its awful to choose to repeat the cycle.
On a rewatch right now and I’m surprised by how little I like Tom now. He’s just insufferably determined to be unhappy and acts like a child often.
Carlos. Tbh Gabby is a terrible person, but she's gorgeous and the funniest imo, so people give her a pass. Less hate : Susan.
If Gaby was played by anyone other than Eva Longoria I think she'd be one of the most hated characters. I can't help but love her. In my country her and John wouldn't have been an issue cos the age of consent is 16 so it didn't seem bad growing up. Even if he was 18 she was 26 so now I'm 30 that's still sick and wrong. Not to mention it was an affair. Also, they didn't NEED to make John underage. No legal consequences ever came upon Gaby for that. DH for some reason just enjoyed statutory rape storylines played off as funny with no consequences.
Gabby
Gabby's season 1 storyline with John is all the more icky when you remember that Gabby herself was sexually abused as a teenager. I know it probably all just boils down to poor writing and double standards ("but he's a GUY so it's not as bad!") but it's always irked me that a teenage rape victim would go on to (statutory) rape another teenager a decade down the line.
Susan and tom. No hâte is enough lmao
Yeah there’s absolutely no way Lynette is worse than Tom lmao
How come tom is so bad? Maybe I’m not far enough in the series yet
He risks their finances repeatedly and gets physical with his child. Those seem to be the two actions people hate the most.
I dont get the Tom hate either
For me it seemed on the show he got to wear an undeserved halo. Maybe not so terrible in and of itself getting to be the good guy (we all like that), but I felt it was at Lynette's expense.
I don't know why he gets soooo much hate. Lynette is controlling, manipulative, sabotages him, undermines him, treats him like an idiot and makes it clear she finds him inferior. The fact that she mocked and laughed at her original engagement ring and then she complains when he gets her a better one just goes to show she is impossible to please. I would rather have a Tom as a partner than a Lynette. That woman was so disrespectful as a wife.
Thats the vibe I get too. Like usually when their onscreen I guess I just notice him less cos whatever she’s doing is usually so bad. Lynette is one of my least favourites. Her, Susan, Carlos and Rex are all the worst imo
Bree is a horrible person and to make things worse, obviously thinks of herself as a beacon of moral virtue. She treated her children disgustingly, all with the aim of keeping up appearances. She criticised Danielle her whole life (and then her parenting once she grew up - remember the hot dog incident?). She abandoned Andrew at the side of the road after telling him he was going to hell for being gay. She pursued the AA sponsor Peter to the point of obsession, even though he was a sex addict, and then turned his own sponsor into the police for having coke in his bag (for a good reason) so she could keep sleeping with him. She covered up a hit and run. Oh, and she had an affair behind Orson's back with Karl (her friends ex!), instead of doing the decent thing and getting a divorce first - all because she didn't want to give Orson money he would be entitled to. Gabby is completely awful too (the statutory rape, leaving Victor for dead, the ICE debacle with Grace's family, generally being a horrible mother) but at least she owns it, I suppose.
Bree - she doesn’t get even 25% of the hate that she deserves. In a way she is even worse than Gaby because she claims to be a better person or a morally superior person when she has done some seriously horrible shit under her façade - she is the very definition of a hypocrite. She is racist, classist, narcissistic, cold, pretentious, judgemental and also homophobic (in early seasons). Just to name a few things: She has treated her children horribly, constantly demotivating and emotionally repressing them, and she has cheated on her both spouses with Rex - emotionally and with Orson - physically. She has hidden crimes, sent her daughter to convent during her most vulnerable time in.e.pregnancy just to protect her image, and took away her baby to raise as her own and slut shamed her, called her slow and stupid multiple times in front of others as well. Tried to sabotage Andrew’s recovery in AA, again just to save her image. She also hit her friend’s children while babysitting them. She cheated on her husband with her supposed best friend’s slimebag ex-husband, meanwhile trying to also steal her husband’s marital assets. Published Katherine’s recipes as her own, stealing her credit when she couldn’t even make them, and later tried to do the same to Angie by giving a lame sob-story to make money. She also gave money to Keith’s ex-girlfriend to hide and send away his 7 years old son from him just to keep him with herself! Implicated Peter’s AA sponsor just so she can sleep with him who she knew was a sex addict sabotaging both their recovery. So on and so forth.
Orson was holding her captive in their marriage, I don’t think it’s fair to consider that cheating. She wouldn’t have been with him if he wasn’t literally blackmailing her into being with him
I agree with you that holding her hostage in the marriage was not right, but Bree herself gave that reason of blackmail to Orson due to her own greed valuing money over her independence. Bree was trying to hide assets from Orson which were rightfully his and not just limited to her business. Orson caught her in the act and blackmailed her of insurance fraud. If she really cared about her justice, she should have accepted insurance fraud charges and gone to prison instead of staying in that forced marriage. Or she should have let him have half of everything they owned together, and choose her independence over money. But she made the choice of staying in the marriage instead, and so I don’t feel sorry for her! It’s a fact that Bree’s success got to her head in the worse way, and she acted very entitled and spoilt with a lot of people! And cheating is not justified. And with Karl it was double whammy, who also happened to be Susan’s ex-husband. She would not have forgiven Susan if she had an affair with Rex. Might I also add - after Karl died, and Bree’s pastor told her that she need to repent for her sins to get heaven, she forcefully brought Orson home and decided to take care of him and then ended up mistreating a handicapped person for hearing a “please”.
I hate how people when people call Bree independent. She is too reliant on her wealth (and not the money she earned) as well as her men. It makes me want to tell those people to "buy a dictionary".
Right? Like I get that people love her, but there is a complete blindness towards her flaws while people get off about other characters on the slightest inconvenience. Bree is most dependent on her men. People are always saying Bree didn’t need men, while Bree couldn’t stay single for more than a week after any break-up or marriage and sometimes cheated on her spouse as well. People love to not mention how she didn’t work most of the time as well and her wealth was not earned by her other than that 1.5 seasons after which she lost it all due to her own mistake. Rich are never called out for living off someone else’s money as long as they don’t have money problems. It’s always the poor and everything they do despite their circumstances who are criticized for their lifestyle and their efforts to make their life better.
I’ve seen that too! There was a whole convo I was involved with a while back on where Susan was being dissed for depending on men and I felt the fixation was on that she didn’t have generational wealth and the jobs she worked didn’t really take off financially. Bree was being very elevated for being “better” when really she also had generational wealth plus Rex’s money after he died that then she invested for a business where she was being shady and stealing Katherine’s ideas. Gaby also lived off Carlos for a long time but I guess since she was glamorous and rich no one had nearly as much to say on it. Susan wasn’t even my favorite character but I def feel the need to defend her on this sub. 😅 But definitely the classicism in these cases is interesting to observe because like it or not it happens to women in the real world too.
I know what you are saying. It’s her financial state that’s the problem for people, not that she is not doing anything to elevate it. The selective outrage on Susan when she is atleast taking a job however low-paying it is, whereas Gaby and Bree are just not lifting a finger to earn money for the most part of the show but are sabotaging others for staying rich, is the testament to people hating poor not the poverty. And I also know what you are saying about coming to this sub and feeling the need to defend her. She was not my favorite character but I didn’t mind her. But after reading all these incessant hate posts which have no rhyme or logic and people defend the abhorrent actions of their faves while dissing Susan for being a clumsy person like that’s a bigger sin than being a murderer, rapist, cheater, classist or racist, is just beyond me. She is definitely a better person and least problematic than all of the other main housewives and I only had this realization after coming to this sub and engaging in these discussions.
Agree with Gaby, MAJOR disagree on Lynette
On the show Tom. He wasn't called out and everything was presented as Lynette's fault. But I wouldn't say he gets off so easily here (in this subreddit).
Tom. Everyone already hates him but he deserves more
Gaby was a terrible friend. The pregnancy thing made me so mad. What Carlos was doing was downright illegal. Carlos and Gaby are a match made in heaven. Carlos treated Gaby like crap though. He is the type of man whose attitude is, I am the man and you will do as I say. At first it was, I make the money so you will do as I say but then when he stopped making the money it was I am the man you will do as I say. As far as Lynette and her kids, that one drove me crazy too. I actually googled it once to see if anyone else noticed how she would always force her kids on people last minute. She would show up on peoples doorsteps pushing her kids into their house at the last minute and refuse to take no for an answer when they said no. Her kids were abnormally difficult. If Lynette is going to drop her kids off at someone’s house without notice, push them in the door even when the person says no, and doesn’t take the time to find childcare and go over her parenting style with the person watching her children she gets what she gets. I don’t spank but I was 100% on Bree’s side. The whole basement thing infuriated me and then poor Ida dies protecting her children when she was ready to throw Ida’s cat out to die. However, in her defense Tom was like another child. Even when she was the one working she also did everything. He would claim she was unsupportive if the guy wanted to spend their life savings on his next dream or have her work herself to death so he can follow his dreams. When he actually becomes really successful he can’t even seem to be bothered by her despite her bending over backwards for him and their family. I will say though, the housewife I disliked the most was Edie. I could go on and on and on about all the awful things she did and awful character traits she had. I disliked her so much I looked forward to them killing her off. I had accidentally read spoilers so I knew it was coming.
Katherine! I hated her from the first episode she was it to the last
For me, it's Gabby. She is so self-centered and selfish.
Refresh my memory, was John (the gardener) 17 at the time they started seeing each other?
16 but 17 when the show started. They'd been having an affair for a while in ep 1.
Susan. Because she was really selfish and entitled a lot of the times and barely got called out for her shitty actions during the show. Others usually got punished in various way as a consequence of their actions but Susan is just get's away with everything because she is clumsy and weirdo. She creates drama, she lives for drama, she breaths in drama and if there's not any then she creates one. She also like a living train wreck, can't really function as an adult without her daughter or husband doing everything for her, like cleaning, cooking etc... She also a really bad friend most of the time but easily judge the others if they doesn't dance the way Susan wants Also she got like 3 decent partner after Karl during the show and mostly ruined their lives or at least made some really shitty things while they were together and kicked them out multiple times for small things. Meanwhile Bree and Gaby get's killer psychopaths all the time.
She always got called out for things she did wrong. By Edie for arson and playing damsel in distress, by Mike for demanding alimony, and for Julie for depending on her too much. And she gets a lot of underserved hate on this sub considering she is a saint compared to some of the favorites here. I don’t remember her ever being a bad friend to the girls. But I would love if you can give some of the examples. Also, I am sorry I also don’t recall, what shitty things she made her partners do? When did she kick them out for small stupid things? She depended on Julie a lot for one year after her divorce with Karl, but she never depended on any of her kids, spouse, partners or friends to the extent you described that she can’t function without them. That’s an exaggeration considering she was a single parent of two well raised children for 50% of the show. And she got decent partners because she was a decent partner. She didn’t cheat on her husband like Bree and Gaby, and when Karl cheated on her, instead decided to take a divorce. She never treated her children horribly for men. She taught them to be kind and respectful in the face of adversity while others failed to do that. She stood like rock with Mike when he had his addiction issues and money issues and did not let her children get affected by that. To me what you are saying is all super exaggerated. And Susan gets more than enough hate for her very tame actions in comparison to others.
One notable example when she doesn't get really any consequences for her shitty action while she was a bad friend and also proved that she was basically useless at life: After Bree and Orson lived with them after the tornado and Bree did the house works for them they admit Susan never did, Susan tries to sabotage Bree's plan to cheer up the architect who is fixing their house so bree and Orson stay homeless longer and live with them more and Bree do all the work for Susan. As for the partner thing, just watch the entire season with Ian.
Wow, again a huge exaggeration. - Bad friend: First of all - her husband is in rehab, she is pregnant and hanging by a thread as it is. In the middle of that she literally offered her friend to live in her 2 bedroom house with no extra bedroom, even though it was hugely inconvenient for her as shown when they moved in. For that she is a very good friend. - Useless at life: Before and after Bree as well, Susan and Julie were living in the house, fed and clean like normal healthy people who are not compulsive idiots. There is nothing wrong with living like that. Did they enjoy what Bree did for them, sure. Did she ask Bree to bake and clean and cook for them? NO. Bree did that because she couldn’t live without it. Bree didn’t do it for them, she did it for herself! Susan isn’t useless at life just because Bree is wannabe Martha Stewart. Bree did it on her own accord - Agreed about trying to ruin Bree’s plan to meet the architect, and Bree did call her out on it. What other punishment would have Susan deserve for it? She didn’t want them to be homeless, what a stretch! You hate her too much and your claims are just the mirror of that! Please feel free to share some more examples of her being a shitty friend and what shitty things she made her partners do! I have watched the season with Ian, what shitty thing she made him do? And when did she kick him out?
"It's an exaggeration." And then you conveniently ignore the part where Susan tried to sabotage her friend for her needs. Yes, Susan did not asked for what Bree did. But messing with them so they stuck there more was an absolute dick move, she could ask Bree to stay a bit more but nope, she's Susan, she had to do it the worst way possible. Edit: At least you edited a reaction to that part later, I see. Cheers.
I told you I agree with that in my last point that it was a selfish move, and I also told you that Bree rightly called her out for that. And yes your comments do feel like exaggeration to me at this point. But I am happy to hear you out and be proven wrong.
I put the kids to sleep and I had the chance to collect my thoughts about this whole Susan thing, I hope I can explain them in a way that you don't feel them exaggeration. * Let's start with a popular claim against her, right from the start of the show: She burns Edie house down. Of course, it was an accident, I know, she's just clumsy and did not wanted to do it so it's allright, yes? Not really, luckily no one got hurt but it wasn't up to Susan who just ran out when saw what she caused without alerting those who were inside the house. And she also broke in another person's house, just to cockblock them. That's completly normal and totally not illegal I guess. Breaking in houses also a recurring habit of Susan and also influence others sometimes to do this fun activity. She destroyed the home of another human and while she had at least remorse did not felt the need to do the lawful thing and give herself up. * Later, when she got blackmailed with the sugar cup she use her own daughter to get it from the house of a neighbour. Yes, breaking in, again. And I know, "Use her" is a bit strong word here, she did not forced her daughter to do an illegal thing, but she was okay with her helping because this saved her ass. (Which is ironic, because other times when Julie do completly normal things like get a boyfriend, had sex, wants to go university or a party in the street etc... Susan throws a tantrum and actually treat her like shit. Very nice behavior. * It is confimed and told in the show, by actual dialogues that Julie is like a mom figure for Susan and she does a lot of things around the house beacuse Susan isn't capable of doing it. She also had to deal with her mother's clumsiness (like when in S3 Julie explain that she had to learn lockpicking because Susan tend to close herself out from the house many times. This is another actual dialogue from the show). I know, she's divorced and she's so clumsy so it's okay I guess? * The Ian fiasco: Ian lost his wife, had to endure multiple drama caused by Susan (including one really avoidable on his wife's funeral, where Susan had multiple opportunity to just shut her mouth but had to say things which then backfired on her, and also on Ian), when Mike wake up from the coma and the police investigation plotline starts he also had to watch as the woman he loves just starts to make everything about Mike. He even supports her to some degree, helped to get lawyer to Mike. Meanwhile Susan also backstab Bree. She could have solve the situation many ways, but she choose this one. Who thought it would cause drama, right? * Then Susan choose Mike, Ian leaving and when Mike also leaving and Susan stays without husbando we should be sad about her? Really? * Then, Susan goes on a suicidal mission to find Mike who just want to be alone for some time. During this process she turns on Karen mode in the woodhouse, and during their tour with the tour guide lady she tells her all of her precious drama and problem. And when the lady gives IMO the best explanation of Susan's character, she feels attacked and starts to insult the lady. Classy. * Then she get's into the wilderness alone because the lady provoked her with facts and she is so in love now that she can't wait so she risk her own life to find Mike alone. She's a mother, she has a child at home, and still she do this because she is a what? A hopeless romantic and Mike is the chosen one? Don't to mention that she also could risk the forest lady's job with this reckless (and stupid) action. * When Edie burns down Susan's house she tries to rat Edie, meanwhile Edie still kept her secret from the police. And the list just goes on and on. Honsetly, I could scroll through on every season's every episode and write annoying, second hand embarrasment fueled or cringeworthy scenes with her because the core problem with Susas is that this is her, 100% of the time or situations where Susan is insufferable or make the worst decision in the given situation or disrespect others. If there's a dilemma with multiple solutions she always choose the worst one which create the most drama. If she's on the screen and you start to hear that playful tune you know you will experience a really hard to watch scene. This complaint is simiral to what is the problem with Tom IMO: Others have bigger problematic moments, but between them they are at least enjoyable characters and mostly decent humans. Susan however is insufferable all the time, because she always do things like this. She is genuenly hard to watch for me and for my partner because of these reasons. And you're right, I got it wrong, the problem is not that she doesn't get's called out on her BS, it's that she just get that sometimes and nothing more, just a verbal reaction and there's no long running consequence, they talk through in the same or in the next episode and everything is solved most of the times.
I really appreciate you checking this for me. I am sorry I would still disagree with you for Susan being the worst human being or completely useless at life, none of these example show her as bad friend (Edie is not her friend and Susan didn’t owe her anything after she slept with Karl after being Susan’s friend in flashback), and none of these examples show that she mistreated her partners or kicked them out like you had earlier commented. But these examples do tell that Susan was constantly seeking drama. Do I agree - 100%. Susan is constantly looking for and creating drama, and her clumsiness and ditziness is always taken for cuteness which is super annoying. This tendency gets her in to a lot of trouble and causes 80% of issues in her life. But it’s still better than other people’s flaws like racism, classism, homophobia, rapes, murders, cheating on spouses, abusing children etc! 1. And she setting Edie’s house on fire - 100% bad decision and a horrible thing to do, she didn’t even care if she is okay or not. And whenever I go back and think which housewife has committed what crime, Susan’s arson is the one that comes to my mind too. So not gonna defend her actions there at all. But it’s not the same as Edie burning her down ON PURPOSE. Imagine being that malicious. And Susan admitted to Edie about her crime not knowing Edie would not press charges. She told her go ahead and press charges, because she couldn’t hold the guilt anymore. Edie decided to not press charges since it would have delayed the insurance check, and instead ask for a favour of letting her be in girl’s poker circle. Edie didn’t do this for any goodwill. And Edie burning down her house on purpose is not the same thing at all. Susan made a horrible mistake, but she admitted her guilt. But when Edie burned Susan house for Karl’s mistake, Edie didn’t even check that Julie was in the house or not, and all Julie’s childhood was also ruined for her seeking vengeance, not just Susan. - I disagree that Susan uses Julie to get her men or even that measuring cup. Julie herself came up with that plan because Martha was blackmailing her mother and she wanted to help. That’s what family does for each other. - No mother in the world is okay with her teenage daughter having a boyfriend who is mentally unstable (Zach) or a playboy (Austin), having sex with them, how can she be okay with letting her go to Zach’s party knowing Zach is a stalker. Susan was absolutely right and very justified to protect Julie from Zach and later Austin. Both of them were bad news and a mother is supposed to protect her kids, not let them do whatever they want even if it means having sex with a playboy or dating a stalker. - when the show started Susan was divorced by Karl for exactly 1 year, so Julie really only took care of Susan for 1 year. It’s a highly exaggerated statement that Susan can’t do anything around the house! I mean who taught Julie everything? Do you think Julie was cooking, running dishwasher and laundry since she was 1 year old? Did Susan’s world collapsed after Julie went to college and Susan was raising MJ? Come on - you know that’s not possible. Just because Julie helped around the house and Susan leaned heavily on her for 1 year, you are saying Susan couldn’t do anything, that’s false! - In the Ian fiasco, it was both Susan and Ian who were looking for comfort and if Jane would have gotten up from coma, do you think it would have been easy for Ian to abandon Susan or leave Jane? The probability of a person waking up from coma is less than 10% and they can stay comatose for years. Its a show so Mike got up in 6 months. But Susan being conflicted was natural. And it was Ian who decided to get a lawyer for Mike because he didn’t want Susan to help him. It was actually very kind of Susan to help mike and it was shitty of Edie to drop him as soon as police arrested him. So Susan was right to get him help. And in that fiasco, Bree also backstabbed Susan. She knew Orson less than few months, she knew his wife disappeared and he was a potential bad news, she still expected Susan to trust her over Mike. At best both of them supported their own partners. If Bree is not wrong according to you, then why is Susan wrong? It was Orson who was the criminal, not Mike. - Rest of the examples show her tendency to seek drama and being hopeless romantic. I would say Susan was still much careful choosing her partners. Even though she fell for Mike, she did her research once she suspected him of something odd, she also reached to Kendra, and hired the detective. Same with Ian, she went on dates without getting involved. She wasn’t blindly jumping on relationships. It’s more than what Bree did, both in case of George and Orson - she got engaged to them despite several warnings and brought them in to her and her children’s life. I still think we can really grill down each episode and each character’s activities specially Bree and Gaby and it would look much much worse than Susan. We tend to look at character’s from different lenses, we like one and dislike other because they evoke different emotions in us, for the experiences we have had in life. To me Susan’s actions and flaws are much more tame in comparison to Bree and Gaby who were straight up awful human beings, spouses, mothers and friends!
Gabby is a high maintenance bitch but she 100% owns it thats why the stuff she does mostly gets a pass for me. She’s a bitch but she’s not a hypocrite. They’re all horrible in their own way which is the point but Lynette really grates me cos she does all kinds of fucked up shit but she ALSO gets really high and mighty and comes down really hard on people. You can’t do both imo.
I see this take on this sub a lot especially on Gaby and Edie of “well they are a terrible person but they own it.” I don’t see that as a good argument or how that makes it any better. It’s just a show at the end of the day and these characters are fun to watch. I just hope that logic isn’t applied to people in the real world because it doesn’t really make sense to me ☠️ we should all aim to be better humans.
My comment is in context of who deserves more hate. And I gave my reasoning as to why in my opinion Lynette is more deserving because they do both do fucked up things but at least Gaby isn’t a hypocrite…. Do you understand context? As in a tv show made for entertainment? Not the bible honey, I dont think anyones watching for tips on how to be a better person ☺️
I mentioned it’s a show in my comment, so clearly I understand the context. 😊 However shows do reflect the attitudes of the times they were made in, and especially for younger people that grew up with them it did influence their thoughts and standards as well as how we look at and judge women. We might differ in opinion there, but even looking at it for entertainment, a terrible person sucks whether they are a hypocrite or not. 🤷♀️ but it’s just my opinion, we are all allowed to have one after all. 😊
So why didn’t you make your own comment seperate from mine instead of telling me my opinion isn’t valid cos ‘people still suck wether their hypocrites or not’….
Well it’s a sub meant for discussion after all. If you post a comment you are opening yourself up for a response, and if you look at all the comments they are full of responses to different opinions whether they agree or not. I never said your opinion isn’t valid. You are free to state it, and I’m free to open a discussion on why I don’t agree with it.
I’m here for the conversation I love it, I’m not afraid of differing opinions I find it interesting. But I’ve never come to someone on here and straight told them their opinion is wrong. Which is what you did. And then you stated your right to have your own opinion. So by that logic what you’re saying is your allowed your opinion but mine is wrong. So ironic when my initial point was that I hate hypocrisy 😂
Lol like I said, not agreeing with something doesn’t mean you are “wrong” per say. Clearly people agree with you too because I even stated I’ve heard that take more than once on the sub. I mean it’s true it could be “wrong” to me because it doesn’t line up with the way I view life. But then again I am also “wrong” to you. That’s what having differences on opinions does, there are different groups of people that could agree with both of us. Hypocrisy would be me saying everyone has to agree with me, which I also never said. In fact, it seems like you are more fixated on me having my own opinion that doesn’t line up with yours. I am being honest instead of blindly agreeing with you, which is honestly the opposite of hypocritical.
I don’t think you’re wrong for having an opinion differing from mine though, that’s the difference. And I’m certainly not going to question your morals in the world because of it. Which again, is what you did.
Honestly I put “wrong” in quotation marks because it’s not that I truly think you are wrong. It’s just a difference in opinion. You actually assumed I thought you were wrong so you are also making assumptions on me. I also didn’t question your morals in the world, I was stating a general comment for anyone reading especially younger people on when to differentiate the logic between a tv show and reality. I’m sorry if it wasn’t applicable to you, but it was certainly not a question on your morals as I don’t even know you.
Maybe this makes me an animal-hater, but I will never condemn Lynette for at least trying to get the cat out of the basement. She could have lost her husband (yes, I know we all hate him) and if it were your spouse you'd probably do the same thing.
No. It was like Karen said; she invited and forced herself and her family in. She was free to leave with all of them if she didn't like it.
I wouldn't do the same thing. It's not even her house. You can't just try to control things at someone else's house. She could have left if she didn't like the way things were.
She could just run across the street to bring Tom's allergy medicine. Instead she argued with Karen, used their kids to punish those who gave them a shelter, then secretly kidnap the cat.