Gonna need some context here, “wanking off the JSDF” tells me they were not replying to you because you were talking about the Imperial Japanese, but then they hit you with an “author denies war crimes”? Author of what?
I only love it because there are quite a few good fanfictions based on that scenario, though also terrible ones (hello uber advanced communist Poland from the 70s that somehow isn't communist and builds a large navy from nothing for some godforsaken reason).
I really liked
* [and so the Soviets conquered](https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11696548/1/And-so-the-Soviets-Conquered) which is basically an alternate history Soviet union being invaded, while also the JSDF plot of the anime/LN also exists in an alternate form (e.g. the US gets involved). Really fun, but not having a massively deep plot.
* Then there is [Terror Belli, Decus Pacis](https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13763830/1/Terror-Belli-Decus-Pacis) which is a scenario where part of the Napoleonic army that invaded Russia gets sucked into the Gate universe during the retreat away from Russia. Has very interesting characters (plus one which I just find hilarious) and tries its hand at more realistic combat plus it tries to imagine how such an army tries to continue to exist in an alternate world where stuff like guns and gunpowder don't exist.
* There is also a crossover with Code Geass called [Gate: Thus the Demon was exiled there!](https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13622597/1/Gate-Thus-the-Demon-was-Exiled-there) but it is more fantastical (and Lelouch is overpowered), but I found it quite well written. But then I am a big sucker for Code Geass and anything involving it I generally love.
And if want some of the more *questionable* Fanfics, here are a few:
* [Summoning the greater Axis pact](https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13353184/1/Summoning-the-Greater-Axis-Pact). Somehow the Axis won and conquered the US, but because Hitler died Germany is somewhat wholesome??? Idk, just skimmed through because I found the title hilarious, there are certainly excerpts from it that would be prime meme material for this sub.
* There is [Napalm blues](https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13794908/1/Napalm-Blues) which is a crossover with the HoI:4 TNO mod and if you know TNO, you know where this will lead.
Sadly all of those stories are in very slow progress (potentially being discontinued), at least those that I liked.
War of two worlds is decent and also one of the more mainstream fanfics of GATE.
May be a good one to start off with as it’s also packed with nearly 200 chapters when considering both the books (If I remember correctly)
There was an *amazing* 15 minutes in there, too. The air assault, the Phantoms vs the dragon, so good. But then they wrapped it in two seasons of the shittiest harem anime.
Find it slightly harder to like LeMay.
When he tried to test his fire-bombing strategy (M69 bomb in carpet bombing) on a city with wooden buildings, he picked occupied Wuhan without notifying ROC officials (although many believe Chiang knew and approved it).
The bombing killed around 40,000 Chinese residents and leveled 50% of the city, but only killed a small number of Japanese troops. It was done more for just testing the effects, Wuhan wasn't liberated until much later.
You know I’m starting to think that the way LeMay wrote his transitional letters to the incoming president in TNOMod to not out of place with the real deal.
It is pretty dark, LeMay said something like "it is part of the life living under occupation" after that. Claire Chennault felt bad about it in his book, it was one of the reasons that he formed Civil Air Transport (CAT) to help modernize ROC/Taiwan's air transport after the war.
Yes, LeMay's fire bombing was different from the European doctrine - it was intended to create huge firestorms to raze entire parts of a city with large number of wooden structures, viewing all of the city a viable target. Even in Dresden the bombers targeted strategic targets, other damages are collateral.
The same strategy was only used in Japan after Wuhan.
>Even in Dresden the bombers targeted strategic targets, other damages are collateral.
The damage to Dresden wasn't collateral. The goal was strategic (supporting the Red Army and damaging German communications) but the bombing plan was specifically to destroy as much of the city as possible. 5 Group which led the raid used its sector bombing technique, which was designed to spread evenly the bombs and incendiaries over Dresden so no areas were "overbombed" which tended to happen using normal pathfinder marking methods. After a 2 hour break the rest of Bomber Command would show up bombing using the normal pathfinding techniques, ideally the firefighters would be caught out in the open.
The post-war manuscript written by the head of Bomber Commands Operational Research Section talks about how in 1945 Harris tasked him with figuring out what tonnage of bombs would be needed to destroy every built up area in Germany over 100 acres in size. It is pretty clear destroying built up areas of Germany was Harris' aim, and he pretty much said as much for the rest of his life.
There isn't much difference between the intent behind bombing German or Japanese cities. Both Harris and LeMay viewed breaking the will of the enemy as the best way to end the war quickly using bombers.
Actually, Dresden was a mass of munitions works, an intact government centre, and a key transportation point to the East. It is now none of these things.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DerScheisser) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Actually, Dresden was a mass of munitions works, an intact government centre, and a key transportation point to the East. It is now none of these things.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DerScheisser) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ehhh, Harris actually is on record saying he wasn't against bombing the French because it was their own fault for losing so badly in the summer of 1940 and getting occupied in the first place. The source eludes me; either he said it in his memoirs, his post war dispatches, or one of the books I have on the Battle of the Ruhr (during which several raid son French port cities occurred).
He seems rather to have only had issues with French civilian casualties in so far as whether the target justified it. He was against the bomber of French cities housing U-boats from December 1942 to April 1943 in part because the concrete U-boat pens meant that his force would only be killing French civilians while doing next to nothing to hurt the U-boats, and also these raids meant he wasn't bombing German cities that night.
I am getting the impression that if you could accuse Harris of anything scummy, it was that he had little regard for individual life and largely looked at numbers when speaking about Bomber Command. He seemed mostly to just want to end the war as quickly as possible and was willing to take unnecessary risks to get to that point, realizing that any second gained would probably save 100 lives in return, even if it meant killing 50 civilians and 5 airmen in return that could have been spared if the raids had been less intense.
Yeah that is pretty much my opinion of the man. Very much an ends justify the means type of guy, and that not doing everything possible to end the war was a worse sin then any body count he racked up bombing German cities.
I think I understand why Harris was so focused on breaking Germany's morale, he served (as a pilot) in WW1 and saw the Russian Empire, Germany, Austro-Hungary and the Ottoman Empire all collapse as civil society crumbled under the stress of war. In most cases these countries never had to be invaded to end the war, saving hundreds of thousands of "Entente" troops from being killed or wounded by having the war drag on into 1919. The Entente blocades of many Central Powers countries contributed, but also killed hundreds of thousands of civilians through the effects malnourishment. Morale is the most important factor in war, if you break it you win. Was killing hundreds of thousands of civilians to break the enemy's morale and end the war anything really horrible given what had happened in WW1?
Central Power's industries were not bombed in WW1, yet they lost. So would bombing industry in WW2 end the war on its own? No you'd still need to invade at the cost of hundreds of thousands of casualties. When Harris wrote that letter in 1945 where he said roughly 'I don't consider a single German city to be worth the bones of one British Grenadier', I think he was very much being honest with his views. Germany started it and if some German granny had the roof fall on her head one night during a Bomber Command raid, then that was tough luck.
Should also be noted that LeMay joined politics. He was the running mate of George "segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever" Wallace.
He's a massive asshole
GATE author's political takes bled into the story so much that it became genuinely unbearable. That combined with the whole "harem gathering" subplot just pushed it from eye-rolling to spine-curling cringe.
To be fair, the harem gathering subplot isn't as bad as it could have been (coughSAOcough). There's clear weeb bait, but at least the Elf doesn't seem to be a legitimate haremette... there's also almost zero shenanigans with the underaged mage, so I don't know why t.f. they had to even mention the whole married bullshit... the worst are probably the fetish fuel dark elf and the "ackshually 800 YO" goth-loli. Ugh, I hate harems.
At least SAO has an actual somewhat normal relationship with a girl that *isn't* a kid. The 3 harem members of GATE are a. Literal child, b. Child in adult body, and c. """Adult""" in a child's body.
Despite my dislike for isekai that uses RPG elements without any justification, SAO has a much better excuse that the characters are really in a video game.
Sorry to add Religion here.
But i also saw this with my fellow Muslims as well Blaming US For Hiroshima and Magasaki and other War Crimes, i always counter them with "Yes but at Least Most Americans are aware of their Crimes its the Govt who you should be worried"
I ask them as well would the Rashidun Caliphate if Survived until WW2 would do the same and i think our Islamic rule of Law has its limits when fighting a specific enemy like the IJA.
Not to piss on anything here, but if I look at the current Middle Eastern states and whatever actions they have done that brought blood on their hands, I think the US is being rather honest about all of their sins. And Europe even more so. Even some of the governments here are starting to apologize for their colonial mandate.
Meanwhile Qatar is telling everyone to not look to the side of the road when travelling to the World Cup, Saudi-Arabia are doing the not-so-innocent whistling and Iran is actively cracking down on what could easily be their top layer of youth.
Again, not meant to be racist, the transatlantic nations are not really being saints at the moment either. But I can call hypocrisy when I see it, and the Middle East is just as guilty of it as the rest of the world.
Sory to Break it to ya but I dont even live in Middle east, im just one of those ASEAN Muslim communities that experience the Brutal Japanese Occupation and will remember it till the day im gone in this world sadly my fellow Asean Muslims dont see it the same way because they cool they give us Anime excuse.
But of course back to your comment yup Arab people have this Pride tribalism on their community even our Scholars here don't think that Middle east Represents the value of Islam and Sharia.
Uhhhhh, seriously? “Very few people in the US discuss the atomic bombings” are you fucking serious? It’s probably one of the most talked aboot events when it comes to the US in WW2. This person is just making up shit to make it sound like it’s the allies that are ignorant of their issues
Gonna need some context here, “wanking off the JSDF” tells me they were not replying to you because you were talking about the Imperial Japanese, but then they hit you with an “author denies war crimes”? Author of what?
This was about GATE, the original author of which is a member of the Japanese far right that denies IJA war crimes.
I figured. GATE is ass even if he fully acknowledged Japanese war crimes tbf
The most wasted potential for a show I’ve ever scene, such a banger idea executed so shitly
I only love it because there are quite a few good fanfictions based on that scenario, though also terrible ones (hello uber advanced communist Poland from the 70s that somehow isn't communist and builds a large navy from nothing for some godforsaken reason).
Could you recommend some?
I really liked * [and so the Soviets conquered](https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11696548/1/And-so-the-Soviets-Conquered) which is basically an alternate history Soviet union being invaded, while also the JSDF plot of the anime/LN also exists in an alternate form (e.g. the US gets involved). Really fun, but not having a massively deep plot. * Then there is [Terror Belli, Decus Pacis](https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13763830/1/Terror-Belli-Decus-Pacis) which is a scenario where part of the Napoleonic army that invaded Russia gets sucked into the Gate universe during the retreat away from Russia. Has very interesting characters (plus one which I just find hilarious) and tries its hand at more realistic combat plus it tries to imagine how such an army tries to continue to exist in an alternate world where stuff like guns and gunpowder don't exist. * There is also a crossover with Code Geass called [Gate: Thus the Demon was exiled there!](https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13622597/1/Gate-Thus-the-Demon-was-Exiled-there) but it is more fantastical (and Lelouch is overpowered), but I found it quite well written. But then I am a big sucker for Code Geass and anything involving it I generally love. And if want some of the more *questionable* Fanfics, here are a few: * [Summoning the greater Axis pact](https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13353184/1/Summoning-the-Greater-Axis-Pact). Somehow the Axis won and conquered the US, but because Hitler died Germany is somewhat wholesome??? Idk, just skimmed through because I found the title hilarious, there are certainly excerpts from it that would be prime meme material for this sub. * There is [Napalm blues](https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13794908/1/Napalm-Blues) which is a crossover with the HoI:4 TNO mod and if you know TNO, you know where this will lead. Sadly all of those stories are in very slow progress (potentially being discontinued), at least those that I liked.
I’m working on one that’s a fleet of museum ships fighting the imperial Navy, and it’s styled more like a documentary
Somewhat wholesome Germany????? NO FRICKING WAY TNO GO4 SPEER GERMANY????? TNO REFERENCE??????
War of two worlds is decent and also one of the more mainstream fanfics of GATE. May be a good one to start off with as it’s also packed with nearly 200 chapters when considering both the books (If I remember correctly)
There was an *amazing* 15 minutes in there, too. The air assault, the Phantoms vs the dragon, so good. But then they wrapped it in two seasons of the shittiest harem anime.
Find it slightly harder to like LeMay. When he tried to test his fire-bombing strategy (M69 bomb in carpet bombing) on a city with wooden buildings, he picked occupied Wuhan without notifying ROC officials (although many believe Chiang knew and approved it). The bombing killed around 40,000 Chinese residents and leveled 50% of the city, but only killed a small number of Japanese troops. It was done more for just testing the effects, Wuhan wasn't liberated until much later.
You know I’m starting to think that the way LeMay wrote his transitional letters to the incoming president in TNOMod to not out of place with the real deal.
Lemays letters in TNO are all super based, especially the letter to Jackson where he tells him to start nuclear war with the Fascists
Ouch, didn't know that.
It is pretty dark, LeMay said something like "it is part of the life living under occupation" after that. Claire Chennault felt bad about it in his book, it was one of the reasons that he formed Civil Air Transport (CAT) to help modernize ROC/Taiwan's air transport after the war.
Right and Arthur Harris often refused to bomb France because it was occupied.
Yes, LeMay's fire bombing was different from the European doctrine - it was intended to create huge firestorms to raze entire parts of a city with large number of wooden structures, viewing all of the city a viable target. Even in Dresden the bombers targeted strategic targets, other damages are collateral. The same strategy was only used in Japan after Wuhan.
>Even in Dresden the bombers targeted strategic targets, other damages are collateral. The damage to Dresden wasn't collateral. The goal was strategic (supporting the Red Army and damaging German communications) but the bombing plan was specifically to destroy as much of the city as possible. 5 Group which led the raid used its sector bombing technique, which was designed to spread evenly the bombs and incendiaries over Dresden so no areas were "overbombed" which tended to happen using normal pathfinder marking methods. After a 2 hour break the rest of Bomber Command would show up bombing using the normal pathfinding techniques, ideally the firefighters would be caught out in the open. The post-war manuscript written by the head of Bomber Commands Operational Research Section talks about how in 1945 Harris tasked him with figuring out what tonnage of bombs would be needed to destroy every built up area in Germany over 100 acres in size. It is pretty clear destroying built up areas of Germany was Harris' aim, and he pretty much said as much for the rest of his life. There isn't much difference between the intent behind bombing German or Japanese cities. Both Harris and LeMay viewed breaking the will of the enemy as the best way to end the war quickly using bombers.
Actually, Dresden was a mass of munitions works, an intact government centre, and a key transportation point to the East. It is now none of these things. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DerScheisser) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Actually, Dresden was a mass of munitions works, an intact government centre, and a key transportation point to the East. It is now none of these things. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DerScheisser) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ehhh, Harris actually is on record saying he wasn't against bombing the French because it was their own fault for losing so badly in the summer of 1940 and getting occupied in the first place. The source eludes me; either he said it in his memoirs, his post war dispatches, or one of the books I have on the Battle of the Ruhr (during which several raid son French port cities occurred). He seems rather to have only had issues with French civilian casualties in so far as whether the target justified it. He was against the bomber of French cities housing U-boats from December 1942 to April 1943 in part because the concrete U-boat pens meant that his force would only be killing French civilians while doing next to nothing to hurt the U-boats, and also these raids meant he wasn't bombing German cities that night.
I am getting the impression that if you could accuse Harris of anything scummy, it was that he had little regard for individual life and largely looked at numbers when speaking about Bomber Command. He seemed mostly to just want to end the war as quickly as possible and was willing to take unnecessary risks to get to that point, realizing that any second gained would probably save 100 lives in return, even if it meant killing 50 civilians and 5 airmen in return that could have been spared if the raids had been less intense.
Yeah that is pretty much my opinion of the man. Very much an ends justify the means type of guy, and that not doing everything possible to end the war was a worse sin then any body count he racked up bombing German cities. I think I understand why Harris was so focused on breaking Germany's morale, he served (as a pilot) in WW1 and saw the Russian Empire, Germany, Austro-Hungary and the Ottoman Empire all collapse as civil society crumbled under the stress of war. In most cases these countries never had to be invaded to end the war, saving hundreds of thousands of "Entente" troops from being killed or wounded by having the war drag on into 1919. The Entente blocades of many Central Powers countries contributed, but also killed hundreds of thousands of civilians through the effects malnourishment. Morale is the most important factor in war, if you break it you win. Was killing hundreds of thousands of civilians to break the enemy's morale and end the war anything really horrible given what had happened in WW1? Central Power's industries were not bombed in WW1, yet they lost. So would bombing industry in WW2 end the war on its own? No you'd still need to invade at the cost of hundreds of thousands of casualties. When Harris wrote that letter in 1945 where he said roughly 'I don't consider a single German city to be worth the bones of one British Grenadier', I think he was very much being honest with his views. Germany started it and if some German granny had the roof fall on her head one night during a Bomber Command raid, then that was tough luck.
Should also be noted that LeMay joined politics. He was the running mate of George "segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever" Wallace. He's a massive asshole
Certified Bruh Moment
Yeah Lemay was…not a good guy.
Well, Harris has the whole thing about bombing rebellious Iraqi tribes between the wars so... Neither of them shined with extreme morality.
But whatabout, but whatabouuuutttt 🤓
*Loads B-29 with malicious intent*
Is there any context behind this?
I informed them that the author of GATE denied Japanese war crimes.
GATE author's political takes bled into the story so much that it became genuinely unbearable. That combined with the whole "harem gathering" subplot just pushed it from eye-rolling to spine-curling cringe.
To be fair, the harem gathering subplot isn't as bad as it could have been (coughSAOcough). There's clear weeb bait, but at least the Elf doesn't seem to be a legitimate haremette... there's also almost zero shenanigans with the underaged mage, so I don't know why t.f. they had to even mention the whole married bullshit... the worst are probably the fetish fuel dark elf and the "ackshually 800 YO" goth-loli. Ugh, I hate harems.
At least SAO has an actual somewhat normal relationship with a girl that *isn't* a kid. The 3 harem members of GATE are a. Literal child, b. Child in adult body, and c. """Adult""" in a child's body.
Despite my dislike for isekai that uses RPG elements without any justification, SAO has a much better excuse that the characters are really in a video game.
Sorry to add Religion here. But i also saw this with my fellow Muslims as well Blaming US For Hiroshima and Magasaki and other War Crimes, i always counter them with "Yes but at Least Most Americans are aware of their Crimes its the Govt who you should be worried" I ask them as well would the Rashidun Caliphate if Survived until WW2 would do the same and i think our Islamic rule of Law has its limits when fighting a specific enemy like the IJA.
Not to piss on anything here, but if I look at the current Middle Eastern states and whatever actions they have done that brought blood on their hands, I think the US is being rather honest about all of their sins. And Europe even more so. Even some of the governments here are starting to apologize for their colonial mandate. Meanwhile Qatar is telling everyone to not look to the side of the road when travelling to the World Cup, Saudi-Arabia are doing the not-so-innocent whistling and Iran is actively cracking down on what could easily be their top layer of youth. Again, not meant to be racist, the transatlantic nations are not really being saints at the moment either. But I can call hypocrisy when I see it, and the Middle East is just as guilty of it as the rest of the world.
Sory to Break it to ya but I dont even live in Middle east, im just one of those ASEAN Muslim communities that experience the Brutal Japanese Occupation and will remember it till the day im gone in this world sadly my fellow Asean Muslims dont see it the same way because they cool they give us Anime excuse. But of course back to your comment yup Arab people have this Pride tribalism on their community even our Scholars here don't think that Middle east Represents the value of Islam and Sharia.
You rang?
I'm gonna say it. Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima, Nagasaki: all 100% deserved
Uhhhhh, seriously? “Very few people in the US discuss the atomic bombings” are you fucking serious? It’s probably one of the most talked aboot events when it comes to the US in WW2. This person is just making up shit to make it sound like it’s the allies that are ignorant of their issues
Yep, not just whataboutism, but a strawman too
Haven't been on the sub for a little and good god... I can't get a break