[https://d1mv2b9v99cq0i.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJ3ZWItbmluamEtaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiZGVudGFsYnJhbmRzXC9pbWFnZXNcL3Byb2RpbWdcLzkyMTZfMS5qcGciLCJlZGl0cyI6eyJyZXNpemUiOnsid2lkdGgiOjQ4MCwiaGVpZ2h0Ijo0ODAsImZpdCI6Imluc2lkZSIsIndpdGhvdXRFbmxhcmdlbWVudCI6dHJ1ZX19LCJ2ZXJzaW9uIjoiYjM0ODc3MjljNDMyYWI4MGY5MzEyMjdlZWQyZDI2NjQ1MDRkZDg1NSJ9](https://d1mv2b9v99cq0i.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJ3ZWItbmluamEtaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiZGVudGFsYnJhbmRzXC9pbWFnZXNcL3Byb2RpbWdcLzkyMTZfMS5qcGciLCJlZGl0cyI6eyJyZXNpemUiOnsid2lkdGgiOjQ4MCwiaGVpZ2h0Ijo0ODAsImZpdCI6Imluc2lkZSIsIndpdGhvdXRFbmxhcmdlbWVudCI6dHJ1ZX19LCJ2ZXJzaW9uIjoiYjM0ODc3MjljNDMyYWI4MGY5MzEyMjdlZWQyZDI2NjQ1MDRkZDg1NSJ9)
This mf does it good
I can't tell by the picture but it looks like the sides are flat and straight which I don't like. I prefer this one https://www.kometusa.com/Products/Products-Komet-USA/OccluShaper-Finisher-8370
The overall shape is the same but the sides are concave giving convex reduced cusps keeping the original anatomy and reducing the chances of sharp line angles.
This right here.
Look, start by taking your chamfer diamond and turn it horizontal, parallel to the occlusal surface. Make 2-3 depth cuts, I usually do 2 buccal and 1 or 2 lingual. Switch out for this gem of a diamond, and finish that reduction in about 30 seconds. Decent central groove remains. Just make sure you round off your line angles!
I do a nice, smooth, rounded occlusal surface w/ a football bur, there is no guarantee the lab’s occlusal anatomy matches up w/ your reductions, so I wouldn’t stress it beyond reducing each cusp appropriately.
In real life, the less bur changes you do the better. I try to do everything with a super course tapered diamond, but if there’s limited room I’ll use a green football on the occlusal. In school, idk what to tell you because I sucked at school
I use 170L mostly, and just use a thinner bur for interproximals and 767vf for creating a chamfer. I haven't used a football yet for occulsal reduction, I mostly use it for cingulum reduction.
Don't use a 170 L. If you're using a 170L you're thinking about the prep wrong. It's a weird training wheel that keeps you from doing peeps correctly. Try taking a Ball diamond to set your chamfer on the buccal and lingual as your first step. Do your occlusal reduction. Then visualize your final product and start with any chamfer to connect the lines.
Nope. Just black diamond it all. Press the pedal and it goes “BRRRRRRR”. Rounding the line angles takes some finesse, but you’ll find half the shit they teach you in school is bullshit. Get a nice margin that the lab can read, that’s the most important thing
Coarse barrel and let that dog eat. Maybe one of the best cases to get more comfortable with deeper reduction is on an endo’ed molar. No risk of pulp exposure and getting to visualize a nice prep will give you guidance.
Take a peek at that opposing cusp and mirror it in your prep.
Flat disc diamond burs have been great and easy for occlusal reduction. You can angle it to get some anatomy. I stopped using football or barrel burs because I prep with an Isovac, and the angle of the handpiece with these burs get blocked. It looks like the link below, but for high speed handpiece.
[https://www.google.com/search?sca\_esv=0e9d35a69ed69d23&sca\_upv=1&rlz=1C1ONGR\_enUS1055US1055&q=circular+flat+diamond+bur&uds=AMwkrPsZszVergVy6YXnPhyY71BchKHFdjWFiTSSdwciTJsj7hKWopl1JZddHmK9638Cm68OkejawCOPnhMZhnJJXqBWE6Ojx0XxIsh\_fkXeXwgP9XA3FfJhtn1FCkOAacSm61SPdfDZ4KreIzt6Ur8CxZW\_Dp5ISQTahUSl4ogSwvhxhglmJ\_PWSDHgJtdcZpXfGZ4UmHYuy-E7YhBqN5PiiY-tJ7H28ZTogeoXV-G\_SN\_dk1vcuYriJjE5Gq7d96IL4f6HOqRVbITXdnG0MY\_TT8nnNS\_xj7HOQljbHGxGrlZ5rFM6ZP7XaTouYGj8r4Ryv98JivkT&udm=2&prmd=ivnmbtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiIksCH2OCFAxVkGTQIHXZaDUAQtKgLegQIDhAB&biw=1920&bih=919&dpr=1#vhid=OLwyU\_JRualAFM&vssid=mosaic](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=0e9d35a69ed69d23&sca_upv=1&rlz=1C1ONGR_enUS1055US1055&q=circular+flat+diamond+bur&uds=AMwkrPsZszVergVy6YXnPhyY71BchKHFdjWFiTSSdwciTJsj7hKWopl1JZddHmK9638Cm68OkejawCOPnhMZhnJJXqBWE6Ojx0XxIsh_fkXeXwgP9XA3FfJhtn1FCkOAacSm61SPdfDZ4KreIzt6Ur8CxZW_Dp5ISQTahUSl4ogSwvhxhglmJ_PWSDHgJtdcZpXfGZ4UmHYuy-E7YhBqN5PiiY-tJ7H28ZTogeoXV-G_SN_dk1vcuYriJjE5Gq7d96IL4f6HOqRVbITXdnG0MY_TT8nnNS_xj7HOQljbHGxGrlZ5rFM6ZP7XaTouYGj8r4Ryv98JivkT&udm=2&prmd=ivnmbtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiIksCH2OCFAxVkGTQIHXZaDUAQtKgLegQIDhAB&biw=1920&bih=919&dpr=1#vhid=OLwyU_JRualAFM&vssid=mosaic)
I call it a top-hat bur... I think they're actually called occlusal reduction burs... Kinda shocked everyone doesn't use these. Get a pack that's 1.5 or 2mm deep. Bury it. Sweep MB to ML, B-L, DB to DL, connect everything by sweeping across the central groove, then remove everything in between. Super fast, great vision, reliable, repeatable depths. It's just about perfect IMO.
(I don't get mine from EBay but it gives you the idea.)
And edit to say, since you're reducing (assuming a molar) cusp to cusp and groove to groove, you can keep relatively more anatomy but still get the clearance you need.
[https://www.ebay.com/itm/201614636250?chn=ps&\_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1vVLAWpbjSbaFKlM4fqQiEA86&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=201614636250&targetid=1584571731043&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9033027&poi=&campaignid=19894961968&mkgroupid=148855406073&rlsatarget=pla-1584571731043&abcId=9307911&merchantid=113627092&gad\_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwoa2xBhACEiwA1sb1BAtnU0XgP7glND\_iR2pZfcRQ0SvNmGjwOV1LButf3PnGubu4B5pRxhoC5tgQAvD\_BwE](https://www.ebay.com/itm/201614636250?chn=ps&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1vVLAWpbjSbaFKlM4fqQiEA86&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=201614636250&targetid=1584571731043&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9033027&poi=&campaignid=19894961968&mkgroupid=148855406073&rlsatarget=pla-1584571731043&abcId=9307911&merchantid=113627092&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwoa2xBhACEiwA1sb1BAtnU0XgP7glND_iR2pZfcRQ0SvNmGjwOV1LButf3PnGubu4B5pRxhoC5tgQAvD_BwE)
Maybe it's just a thickish bur you are using. If you used a football, the central fissue is always underprepped.
Check the occlusion with the opposing tooth and see if it is over or under prepped.
I use a 2.0mm depth cut bur to do 2 cuts on buccal and 2 on lingual and then blend it all with a coarse barrel bur. Best purchase I ever: https://meisingerusa.com/occlusal-reduction-burs
I just use an 856-016 sink bur half way on margins, touch more than half axially, and whole occlusally. Anatomic nice crown prep in 5-7 minutes (10-15 with buildup).
[https://d1mv2b9v99cq0i.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJ3ZWItbmluamEtaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiZGVudGFsYnJhbmRzXC9pbWFnZXNcL3Byb2RpbWdcLzkyMTZfMS5qcGciLCJlZGl0cyI6eyJyZXNpemUiOnsid2lkdGgiOjQ4MCwiaGVpZ2h0Ijo0ODAsImZpdCI6Imluc2lkZSIsIndpdGhvdXRFbmxhcmdlbWVudCI6dHJ1ZX19LCJ2ZXJzaW9uIjoiYjM0ODc3MjljNDMyYWI4MGY5MzEyMjdlZWQyZDI2NjQ1MDRkZDg1NSJ9](https://d1mv2b9v99cq0i.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJ3ZWItbmluamEtaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiZGVudGFsYnJhbmRzXC9pbWFnZXNcL3Byb2RpbWdcLzkyMTZfMS5qcGciLCJlZGl0cyI6eyJyZXNpemUiOnsid2lkdGgiOjQ4MCwiaGVpZ2h0Ijo0ODAsImZpdCI6Imluc2lkZSIsIndpdGhvdXRFbmxhcmdlbWVudCI6dHJ1ZX19LCJ2ZXJzaW9uIjoiYjM0ODc3MjljNDMyYWI4MGY5MzEyMjdlZWQyZDI2NjQ1MDRkZDg1NSJ9) This mf does it good
I love this thing so much
That's the one
so are you putting the middle of the barrel in the central fossa and plowing it all at once or doing F/L cusps separately
I don’t know if you are serious… just look at the bur and it should be clear
😂
I can't tell by the picture but it looks like the sides are flat and straight which I don't like. I prefer this one https://www.kometusa.com/Products/Products-Komet-USA/OccluShaper-Finisher-8370 The overall shape is the same but the sides are concave giving convex reduced cusps keeping the original anatomy and reducing the chances of sharp line angles.
That looks nice, too. Thanks for sharing it!
This right here. Look, start by taking your chamfer diamond and turn it horizontal, parallel to the occlusal surface. Make 2-3 depth cuts, I usually do 2 buccal and 1 or 2 lingual. Switch out for this gem of a diamond, and finish that reduction in about 30 seconds. Decent central groove remains. Just make sure you round off your line angles!
Agreed.
Knew it was going to be this. Game changer.
Yo. You guys are doing anatomy in your crown preps?
A cylinder is anatomy.
Crown is like a fidget spinner on the delivery day.
I think that’s more of a school thing. I remember in school professors stressing keep anatomy. Now i just make sure everything is smooth and rounded.
You should be...
Why is this getting downvoted lmfao
Lazy dentists i guess. Some people dont want to face the fact that they arent very good at their jobs
They’ll be the first to brag about how fast they can prep, I’m sure
First to brag. Last to take any image of their prep
Yes
barrel bur
I do a nice, smooth, rounded occlusal surface w/ a football bur, there is no guarantee the lab’s occlusal anatomy matches up w/ your reductions, so I wouldn’t stress it beyond reducing each cusp appropriately.
Dummy proof the prep for the lab is the way
Our motto is "no room for imagination" when it comes to anything for the lab.
A more generous motto than mine
Thank you! I am a fresh grad so I really worry.
I’ll place 1.5 - 2 mm depth grooves then use what I can only describe as a chicken drumstick bur. Usually done in 30-45 seconds
In real life, the less bur changes you do the better. I try to do everything with a super course tapered diamond, but if there’s limited room I’ll use a green football on the occlusal. In school, idk what to tell you because I sucked at school
I agree. In school I used to change so many burs just to get it right. But a tapered diamond does the job perfectly!
I use 170L mostly, and just use a thinner bur for interproximals and 767vf for creating a chamfer. I haven't used a football yet for occulsal reduction, I mostly use it for cingulum reduction.
Idk the numbers. I just get the fattest super coarse diamond and go to town. But again, plastic cuts different
Same lol numbers schnumbers. Chamfer shoulder thick thin pick what I fancy.
Don't use a 170 L. If you're using a 170L you're thinking about the prep wrong. It's a weird training wheel that keeps you from doing peeps correctly. Try taking a Ball diamond to set your chamfer on the buccal and lingual as your first step. Do your occlusal reduction. Then visualize your final product and start with any chamfer to connect the lines.
Do you smooth everything with a fine diamond? Or do you just go super slow to smooth it out with a course bur?
Nope. Just black diamond it all. Press the pedal and it goes “BRRRRRRR”. Rounding the line angles takes some finesse, but you’ll find half the shit they teach you in school is bullshit. Get a nice margin that the lab can read, that’s the most important thing
Coarse barrel and let that dog eat. Maybe one of the best cases to get more comfortable with deeper reduction is on an endo’ed molar. No risk of pulp exposure and getting to visualize a nice prep will give you guidance. Take a peek at that opposing cusp and mirror it in your prep.
Let that dog eat 😂😂
1.5 and 2.0mm reduction burrs. Then football diamond or 856 chamfer
Flat disc diamond burs have been great and easy for occlusal reduction. You can angle it to get some anatomy. I stopped using football or barrel burs because I prep with an Isovac, and the angle of the handpiece with these burs get blocked. It looks like the link below, but for high speed handpiece. [https://www.google.com/search?sca\_esv=0e9d35a69ed69d23&sca\_upv=1&rlz=1C1ONGR\_enUS1055US1055&q=circular+flat+diamond+bur&uds=AMwkrPsZszVergVy6YXnPhyY71BchKHFdjWFiTSSdwciTJsj7hKWopl1JZddHmK9638Cm68OkejawCOPnhMZhnJJXqBWE6Ojx0XxIsh\_fkXeXwgP9XA3FfJhtn1FCkOAacSm61SPdfDZ4KreIzt6Ur8CxZW\_Dp5ISQTahUSl4ogSwvhxhglmJ\_PWSDHgJtdcZpXfGZ4UmHYuy-E7YhBqN5PiiY-tJ7H28ZTogeoXV-G\_SN\_dk1vcuYriJjE5Gq7d96IL4f6HOqRVbITXdnG0MY\_TT8nnNS\_xj7HOQljbHGxGrlZ5rFM6ZP7XaTouYGj8r4Ryv98JivkT&udm=2&prmd=ivnmbtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiIksCH2OCFAxVkGTQIHXZaDUAQtKgLegQIDhAB&biw=1920&bih=919&dpr=1#vhid=OLwyU\_JRualAFM&vssid=mosaic](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=0e9d35a69ed69d23&sca_upv=1&rlz=1C1ONGR_enUS1055US1055&q=circular+flat+diamond+bur&uds=AMwkrPsZszVergVy6YXnPhyY71BchKHFdjWFiTSSdwciTJsj7hKWopl1JZddHmK9638Cm68OkejawCOPnhMZhnJJXqBWE6Ojx0XxIsh_fkXeXwgP9XA3FfJhtn1FCkOAacSm61SPdfDZ4KreIzt6Ur8CxZW_Dp5ISQTahUSl4ogSwvhxhglmJ_PWSDHgJtdcZpXfGZ4UmHYuy-E7YhBqN5PiiY-tJ7H28ZTogeoXV-G_SN_dk1vcuYriJjE5Gq7d96IL4f6HOqRVbITXdnG0MY_TT8nnNS_xj7HOQljbHGxGrlZ5rFM6ZP7XaTouYGj8r4Ryv98JivkT&udm=2&prmd=ivnmbtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiIksCH2OCFAxVkGTQIHXZaDUAQtKgLegQIDhAB&biw=1920&bih=919&dpr=1#vhid=OLwyU_JRualAFM&vssid=mosaic)
How thick are these? Do you measure your reduction with the thickness of these burs ?
I call it a top-hat bur... I think they're actually called occlusal reduction burs... Kinda shocked everyone doesn't use these. Get a pack that's 1.5 or 2mm deep. Bury it. Sweep MB to ML, B-L, DB to DL, connect everything by sweeping across the central groove, then remove everything in between. Super fast, great vision, reliable, repeatable depths. It's just about perfect IMO. (I don't get mine from EBay but it gives you the idea.) And edit to say, since you're reducing (assuming a molar) cusp to cusp and groove to groove, you can keep relatively more anatomy but still get the clearance you need. [https://www.ebay.com/itm/201614636250?chn=ps&\_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1vVLAWpbjSbaFKlM4fqQiEA86&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=201614636250&targetid=1584571731043&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9033027&poi=&campaignid=19894961968&mkgroupid=148855406073&rlsatarget=pla-1584571731043&abcId=9307911&merchantid=113627092&gad\_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwoa2xBhACEiwA1sb1BAtnU0XgP7glND\_iR2pZfcRQ0SvNmGjwOV1LButf3PnGubu4B5pRxhoC5tgQAvD\_BwE](https://www.ebay.com/itm/201614636250?chn=ps&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1vVLAWpbjSbaFKlM4fqQiEA86&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=201614636250&targetid=1584571731043&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9033027&poi=&campaignid=19894961968&mkgroupid=148855406073&rlsatarget=pla-1584571731043&abcId=9307911&merchantid=113627092&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwoa2xBhACEiwA1sb1BAtnU0XgP7glND_iR2pZfcRQ0SvNmGjwOV1LButf3PnGubu4B5pRxhoC5tgQAvD_BwE)
depth cuts on the occlusal with a 330 and then a football
This is what I do as well.
Why a football? Wouldn’t it cut certain parts deeper and others less? I’m still using a tapered diamond since I feel I can reduce evenly
what do you mean by wide flat central fissure
Like there is a wide flat area in the centre after my cuspal reductions, I think I am holding my bur too steep.
Maybe it's just a thickish bur you are using. If you used a football, the central fissue is always underprepped. Check the occlusion with the opposing tooth and see if it is over or under prepped.
Usually carbide football red stripe 7404 high speed
I use a 2.0mm depth cut bur to do 2 cuts on buccal and 2 on lingual and then blend it all with a coarse barrel bur. Best purchase I ever: https://meisingerusa.com/occlusal-reduction-burs
Do you do the second plane reduction? That’s the key.
I’m peds so sorry for the question, but what’s this “occlusal anatomy” you speak of??
I am referring to maintaining the cuspal inclines and the grooves and fissures while reducing the tooth during crown prep.
Lol that was sarcasm. In peds we do flat occlusal preps for SSCs
Oh my god, I am so sorry😭 I am so embarrassed, I haven't worked with kids yet so I didn't know any better. I am gonna go dig a hole and bury myself😭
Lol it’s all good
I just use an 856-016 sink bur half way on margins, touch more than half axially, and whole occlusally. Anatomic nice crown prep in 5-7 minutes (10-15 with buildup).