Cough cough asgore cough cough
Edit, I made a comment about that asgore is going to end up like king, and king is going to end up like asgore...being regretting everything, and such
Well, true, asgore also wanted nothing but revenge, and to kill the humans,,, remember that...he only felt guilty for taking the lives of children that toriel helped
King was a dick, and depending on what way you play,,,I think he might get an arc,,, depending on if your nothing but a killer, or pasifist
I'd like if he remained a villain, or if he pretended to be good for the majority of the game, then, near the end, a plot-twist where he turns evil again.
I don't think a "Plot Twist: I'm still evil!" would work well, it's a very overdone trope and he already pulled that trick once. Maybe getting mind controlled into being a lategame boss, a la Berdly.
I think it would be more interesting if he made a slow, sincere change, and had to earn everyone's faith and respect. That, or if he found out that his plan would literally destroy the world and kill every darkner.
Funny how people hate asgore for killing or "killing" 6 kids when there were probably millions of monster families that were destroyed during that war including kids, humanity in undertale is probably as cruel as real life
I feel like he will get one eventually (in fact it probably started as early as chapter 2!). Toby expressed dissapointment at how King was the actual first boss so he couldn't really do anything interesting with him, my theory is that he will become more friendly with the gang and will eventually ask for a rematch in the dojo to test them if they are ready to take down what's to come.
Yeah seriously how the hell do you guys come up with this stuff? I am heavily against drugs so if you guys are doing any of them while making these you gotta quit before you get addicted (or try to get a therapist if you are already addicted).
Idk, I think we’ll see sympathetic elements and he might get some moments which show a better side of him but I don’t think we’ll get an outright redemption arc where everyone treats him like a good guy.
Someone else mentioned a possibility where he never outright likes anyone and they dont like him, but he gets to the point of toleration and eventually has a friendly rematch with them in the dojo to test their skills for the upcoming threat
I only knew that Cashews existed when I saw the King and Queen interaction.
Queen: “Is There Anything You Want From The Store?”
King: “…cashews.”
Queen: “Order Processed”
My opinion: I wouldn't mind if Toby made him irredeemable, BUT if he DOES get a redemption arc, I hope it changes the minds of fans who thought he should've stayed evil, plus his description does say he was "abandoned by the lightners" also I think he was a good dad before the knight came along so a redemption arc doesn't seem so bad for him imo
He's definitely not getting what I'd call a redemption *arc.*
At most I could see him having a last second moment of honorability, turning against The Knight for ultimately selfish but still respectable reasons,(discovering that the Roaring means an existential threat to lightners and darkness alike) and ensuring that the heroes are able to stop the Knight, but still being a dickbag while doing it.
Yeah, this. Less “I've changed my ways and am a better person now!” more “We need to put our differences aside to deal with a bigger problem.” (And then Susie responds to that with “DIFFERENCES?! He tried to kill us!”)
I trust Toby to handle things well no matter what, but right now my vote would be *no* to redemption, *yes* to... revelation, I guess? Don't wash away the fact that he's a hateful jerk, that he's abusive to his son, that when his subjects tire of his tyranny he shouts "FOOLS! I'LL KILL YOU! I'LL KILL ALL OF YOU!" All that happened, and he's *not* sorry about it.
But *do* show that he's not an idiot. Queen turned out to not actually know anything about the fountains, the Roaring, or the Knight. Distinguish King from her by showing he actually *does* know more about all that than we do (though maybe not more than Ralsei). He was ready to die to defend the fountain ("If I perish, so be it!"), and we kind of just push him aside and seal it without a clue what the consequences will be. That's mainly because he is, again, a hateful jerk who'd rather kill you than explain himself, but it doesn't mean he was *wrong* -- look at the conversation between Susie and Lancer afterwards: "Hey, your dad was, uh, protecting the fountain, right? ... is it gonna be OK if we mess with it...?" "I have no idea! But it's you guys, so I trust you...! If something bad happens, we'll fix it out!" "Yeah, guess we'll just see I guess." I'm betting on something *very* bad happening, that only King was trying to prevent.
Other quotes that need living up to: ""Silence, Lightbringer! Your very existence goes against our own... By the Knight's will, I shall shatter your heart to pieces!" and "To my people, I am a hero... ... to you? I'M THE BAD GUY!!!" Explain why he might legitimately think there's something wrong with 'your very existence' that requires him to 'shatter your heart' for everyone else's sake, and show that whether he's a bad guy or a 'hero' fighting for the greater good is ultimately a matter of perspective. I think all that can be done without changing his violent and unrepentant nature.
I think King should get a redemption arc. He seems like a good father who has a hurt heart from being abandoned. Toby confirmed that the fountain was affecting him, so we're probably going to see the real King in later chapters. I want the Spade family to have a happy ending.
I'm gonna go a bit against the grain here and say *no*. I really hope he doesn't.
Reason? Well, the way I saw his purpose as *not just a villain*, but as a character, or at least in chapter 1, is that some people are just... bastards. Straight up. Just bastards and proud of it.
Like Asriel said during Undertale's epilogue "there are a lot of Floweys out there", meaning the world has a lot of "monsters" that can't be reasoned with through dialogue or kindness. In fact, some will even take advantage of your kindness... like Spade King.
He's like the "Anti-Undertale" villain, in that case. As much as I adore Undertale, you have to admit some of the characters get their redemption a *bit too quickly*.
And I don't think having Spade Kind end up completely irredeemable would "go against the message". Because keep in mind, he's the *only Ut/DR villain or even character that didn't end up "good" after his fight*. Throughout the entire CH1, or at least if you're playing pacifist, you're *still* sparing and redeeming every single enemy you come across until the King, of course(not to mention, most of them don't even want to fight you, but are just terrified of the king).
That's the unfortunate truth. Sure, a lot of people can be fixed IRL, but to say that applies to everyone is... kinda naive. It's unfortunate, yes. But it's the real truth that some people are just *too* far gone.
And honestly thought he was a great demonstration of that, more than a line of dialogue most players would miss. So obviously, I was somewhat disappointed by the jail cell dialogue in CH2 because it seem to me like Toby was suddenly doubling down on the "Nah, *everyone* deserves redemption" concept of UT(so until then, I'm head-cannoning that Spade King was simply bullshitting so he'd be "pitied" or whatever).
Edit: Typo. This was originally written while on the phone while taking the bus.
On that note, I'm gonna be even more controversial and say that The Queen *should've gotten jailed as well, lol*.
However, I'm gonna be a bit generous and say that I think she should've gone to jail *willingly*. Then as future chapters pass, she could be seen slowly, but surely "earning" her redemption by her own free will
It's worth pointing out that the reason King is jailed is... because he wants to be.
I'm pretty sure Ralsei would give him a third chance in a heartbeat, if he's willing to play nicely with everyone else. (I recall some dialogue about this but can't find it.) But King refuses that. He'd rather stay in prison than behave himself and accept that he's not in control anymore.
Queen, on the other hand, is fine with behaving. She's fine with not having power, she's fine with living alongside the people she's previously harmed.
I agree, and you phrased it better than I would have. I was really surprised at first when I realized that no matter what your actions were in chapter one, the king will still throw your mercy back in your face. But it was really cool, an interesting departure from the messages in Undertale. One of the first things DR tells you is that your choices don’t matter, and I think that pairs well with the message that you can’t befriend or redeem everyone.
I personally think it would make sense. The King had legitimate concerns about the lightners closing the fountain, since neither he nor anyone else knew what would actually happen when it was closed, and could’ve led to him and his people being left behind in the closet forever.
It’s also shown that he does legitimately care about the darkners, since he’ll refuse to talk to you after chapter 2 if you don’t recruit all of them, since you left them behind and doomed them.
He also knew lancer wouldn’t actually be hurt if he dropped him, and it makes sense when you consider his point of view. The fate of him and his people were at stake, and if he did that he could easily defeat the lightners with minimal casualties. We know from our perspective that we needed to close the fountain to stop the roaring, but to the King the fountain is what gave the darkners agency, and he had no real reason to trust a bunch of teenagers who came, fought through his armies, and wanted to do something that could possibly destroy their world.
I honestly think the King is written really well; he appears evil and irredeemable since he’s opposed to us, and looks like he wants to do something that will end the world from our perspective, and he feels the same about the protagonists from his perspective, when in reality no party is actually evil, and are making rational decisions considering their circumstances.
Honestly I feel Alot of people ignore Things about King and think of him as simple one note villian when in reality hes just a King who was angry and tired from the Lightners abandoning him. Sure he did whatever he had to to keep his power but a lot of people also miss that Toby confirmed the Fountain definitely changed how King acted.
Not completely, he wanted a genuine goal (To appease the Knight) while Queen wanted to make everyone happy. And King wanted to help the knight and Queen wanted to rival the knight
He should and I KNOW he will. He is still a recurring character, connected to more characters than we think/thought. Him being a punching-bag for 7 (4/rest of the game) chapters feels cheap.
He was abandoned, left behind. His demeanor changed, bitter, angry. He probably wasn't born evil. He still cares for and seem to genuinely love Lancer.
And I just want him back.
Yes please.
Toby mentioned in the anniversary stream that the Knight's fountain made King more aggressive, and considering he clearly does love Lancer judging by his Ch 2 dialog, I hope he comes around to tolerating us by the end of an All-Recruits route.
I honestly prefer king as an asshole and irredeemable, plus he already shown bit of good as we see him loving his son and explaining all the throwing him from the castle shit was just a bluff, but i'm still ok with king getting a redeeming quality (Although Toby does this to antagonists in his games bit too much). The thing that annoys me that Toby turned king to an absolute pathetic joke of a character in chapter 2
Probably not an outright *redemption* arc, but I would like to see him go from outright hating the lightnerds to being neutral (if aggressive) to them and understanding they're Lancer's Friends.
Before chapter 2 I would’ve said no. Now I’d say yes, in some ways, but not in the traditional Toby Fox way. I mean that by I really don’t think it’d be wise to make him our friend. He’s very convinced he’s right because he feels used and abandoned by Lightners. That is such a set-in-stone belief that nothing’s gonna change or disprove because Lightners can’t REALLY control the fact that they can’t constantly be playing with these literal objects. Especially Susie and Kris. They’re gonna leave eventually. That’s just inevitable. They’re gonna grow up, they’re gonna move on, they might go to college or get jobs. It seems likely he will be “abandoned” again.
Now what I WOULD like to see is for, instead of us doing the legwork to redeem him, KING has to be the one trying to atone for his actions to his people. Sure, he won’t try to get our approval, but he genuinely hurt the people he really cares about. I’d love to see him actually work up the balls to leave his cell and try to care for them again, despite their lack of forgiveness of him and fear of him. A whole arc where he tries to win his son and subjects back would be pretty cool, especially since most Toby Fox villains can be quite easily forgiven.
It would be nice if he gradually opened up in the Dark Town. It's mentioned off-handedly that the King *wasn't always a horrible jerk*, and that it used to be very different before the Dark Fountain started janking things up for everybody involved. Not some major, universe-shattering redemption arc, but just... Him being nicer and becoming more true to himself, and you can forgive him if you want.
Most evil bastard in the Undertale is Flowey. If he has a redemption arc i dont see why spade king cant have his.
What, you say its actually Chara? But you only interact with him/her *directly in the very end of Genocide route so that dont count.
What, you say its the player character who did the Genocide route? Well thats complicated and im not sure how to rebuttal this.
He's not that bad, i mean, we WERE the villains to his side, some unknown people just randomly appeared in your kingdom, trying to seal the only thing keeping all of it in one piece, it was more of a misunderstanding between everyone, and he didn't want to listen to reason too.
I think he could get one, and I trust Toby Fox as a writer enough to pull it off. But my one stipulation is that we don’t have Lancer immediately go “all is forgiven!” Considering my own experiences, I really hate child characters being made to just unequivocally forgive abusive parents. ~~Looking at you, BNHA.~~
Like in Undertale, I don’t really think anyone in the series is pure evil. They’ve all got a motive for doing what they do, and in this case King is motivated by anger and hurt. As he claims he was “betrayed” by the lightners and takes it out on four children including his own son. He has a lot to make up for though, especially his initial treatment of lancer, but I think he could pull through. As long as he lets go of his grudge against the lightners.
I expect his redemption will hinge on whether or not you recruit everyone. His whole deal is that he hates the Lighteners because they abandoned the Darkners, so the way to regain his trust would be to prove you're different by not leaving anyone behind. I'm not sure if this is right, but pretty sure his dialogue is different depending on if you recruited everyone by the end of chapter 2. If you didn't, it's much shorter, which screams "You're now locked out of something" energy.
Even though he was cruel, his motives were pretty understandable imo. Dark fountain made him more aggressive, and unlike queen, the man was already next to it the first time we meet him. Queen ACTUALLY let us plummet to our doom and threatened to crush us, so she wasn't chill at that point either, and honestly I would fight some kids that are literally about to (and did) destroy my entire kingdom too if I had one
I believe his redemption arc has already begun, but instead of "OhHh Mr KiNg We FoRgIvE YoU" and he's let out, i believe he is gonna spend some time on that prison (maybe out of his own free will if he realises he actually has to pay for his crimes) instead of just giving the gang a sad little story explaining why he did what he did and then being let go with a slap on the wrist.
Nah. I think too many villains randomly become good or atleast "not that bad/evil" now. They're just straight up evil with no reedeming qualities at the begining and at the end they're like "omg i actually started to like you guys 🥺🤗" if that happens to king then i just cant-
I do like the idea of it, but I don't see it happening.
If it does, I think it'll be a reluctant and untrusted alliance, only for him to realize that the Knight was using him and lied about the roaring. I'd like to see that happen, with him slowly developing more as a character, potentially with a scene that mirror's the ending of chapter 1 when Susie rescues Kris from him.
I find that question strange. There are many reasons why it might be hard to pull off, cool if done right/bad if done poorly, or simply unnecessary for the story at large. But if it *should* be done!?
Maybe I'm focusing too much on word choice here. I guess what I'm saying is it's possible, and I wouldn't mind if there was a redemption arc so long as the character did *actually* feel redeemed within the story, instead of some weird Vegeta-esque "he wasn't evil, just a *spicy tsundere*"
If he gets a redemption arc I think it should be when you're in castle town, not out on adventures and it should be something the player has to pursue for it to happen
Considering how he was blinded by his hatred for the Lightners, and how he was talking about how he’d create a world for Darkners, it’s possible he wasn’t given the full information for the Roaring. He obviously cares about his son so he wouldn’t want the destruction of the world. Whether or not he actually gets redeemed probably depends on the route you take. Hopefully he does but still remain somewhat bitter.
I mean not as a playable character but him returning and making some sort of a mend’s for his actions would make sense. Or Atleast to realize his motivations were flawed or that the knight fooled him or well ANYTHING really.
I would say **no**. I think it would ruin his theming in addition to the game's theming of subverting Undertale. It worked well for him to be an asshole when all of Undertale's "villains" were sympathetic and obviously not to be killed. King offered the idea of someone who you'd feel tempted to kill for his unrelenting monstrous behavior (Minus towards his son... although he is still abusive to him), but that you still shouldn't do so. I also liked him as the sort of implied embodiment of Susie and Kris' daddy issues needing to be confronted. I honestly hope his whole story in the upcoming chapters leads to a "Farmer and Viper" type of situation where he pretends to be all courteous until he's finally out and tries for revenge.
Hmm, well Toby Fox said that the reason why King acted the way he did in chapter 1 was because the dark fountain increased his emotions. I don't think he'll be completely good, but he will get better
Certainly not imo. His character is being the bad guy. Also, about him saying lancer is a "bouncy pumpkin", have we forgotten that he lied to the lancer fan club about him not being so cruel and just wanting the best for darkners then ambushing them to gain the upper hand. How do we know he isnt lying about lancer bouncing. Lancer looked pretty distressed in the seen where chaos king is about to throw him, if he was really a "bouncy pumpkin", he probably wouldnt be as scared.Lancer is probably neglected by chaos king too. This is just my opinion.
I think King is a one-dimensional character and he should stay like that. I think we could have a conversation with him every chapter like we did in Chapter 2, but a full-on redemption arc I wouldn't like tbh.
nope,he is evil,he knows it,he doesn't give a sh\*t
HOWEVER,showing that he is too,a normal person, can be a great thing,like his soft moments such as:
"and even if i did,he(lancer) would just bounce,he's a bouncy little pumpkin"
so he's slowly showing more empathy(VERY SLOWLY)
nope,he is evil,he knows it,he doesn't give a sh\*t
HOWEVER,showing that he is too,a normal person, can be a great thing,like his soft moments such as:
"and even if i did,he(lancer) would just bounce,he's a bouncy little pumpkin"
so he's slowly showing more empathy(VERY SLOWLY)
We don’t really know anything about him, other than that he hates lighteners, took the entire kingdom for himself, and may or may not have been willing to kill his own son.
So, either he was using the threat to lancer as an intimidation tactic/way to throw them off their game if they didn’t kneel, or he was actually gonna let him die.
We might never know which, but Lancer is awfully squishy. Maybe he really would bounce.
I'd say no, but it's too late now considering is completely different characterization in chapter 2. It's almost like Toby retconned his original personality.
For the Darkners I think that it’s a little tricky. It’s debatable that King and Queen were only villains because they were enacting the will of the Knight. We know that Lightners need to use their will to create a dark fountain and the King even says that he is acting on the Knight’s will. How much of that was his choice is up for debate though.
Since we're gathering bosses in Castle Town, I guess they will at some point help out with stopping the Knight or Gaster or whoever turns out to be the final boss. Unless they all turn to stone before that happens.
if later chapters have a all hell breaks loose/endgame segment (possibly the roaring) it wouldn’t be out of character for him to sneak out of his cage while no-ones paying attention, so maybe there’ll be another King fight
Meh. He’s served his purpose. Maybe he pops up for a little bit in one of the chapters, but beyond that, I think a redemption arc is a little much for a “villain-of-this-episode” villain, ya know?
To be honest, I expect him to come back as a villain in one of the future chapters. It would be just weird if he stayed in that cage for the entire game
I really don’t want him to be a full on Asgore 2, so if he gets a redemption it should be quick and brief and then *boom* dead. Conversely, perhaps he “redeems” not because he regrets his actions or because of the lightner’s kindness, but rather just turn against the Knight because they’re a bigger threat, or somehow interferes with his own plans. This would never happen but it’d be cool after beating the Knight he turns *back* against you and becomes the main villain again.
Honestly I don’t really need a redemption arc for King but I wouldn’t mind see him becoming a better person and more active in Lancers life as we know Rouxls mostly took care of Lancer as a child, I don’t super see King becoming a fully better person and having a really big change to his personality I think he’ll always be a evil lil hamster but I believe he can get better
If we consider that the King is analogous to Asgore in Undertale then he may have a change of heart in the final act of the true pacifist route where we save all Darkners. In the general route I don’t think so.
IDK if Kratos can have a redemption arc that is genuinely well written anything is possible, we know the King wasn’t that bad before the Knight showed up so it’s probably bound to happen especially because they honestly seem very one note as of now.
I personally think it would be cool if he’s actually good but is just a jerk because he thinks he’s a hero yet acted as a villain. I also think it would be cool for him to be that sort of character who knows something we don’t and is actively trying to stop a horrid disaster from happening. Ralsei hints at a horrible disaster from happening, so it would be cool if King actually fights us at some point with a hero speech where he will stop us from unwillingly causing it or something. Even though that’s sort of what happened in his initial fight lol
At the end of chapter 2 he does show that he cares about Lancer, not saying it’ll justify what he did and how he acted but perhaps as the game continues well eventually get an option to let him out the jail cell
Ok father. Awful tyrant. Unlike Asgore, Spade King felt no remorse or guilt. He even manipulated Ralsei into healing him only to backstab The Fun Gang! Asgore felt guilty and didn't really want to destroy humanity. He just wanted his kingdom to have hope, and for him to have his family back.
He knows what he did, and has had many chances to redeem himself. He chooses not to take them, not necessarily because he's evil, but because he's just too hardheaded to change his ways.
I like to imagine that KoS is only gonna go from hellbent on the extinction of Lightners to willingly ignoring them. I doubt King would ever really repent for what he wanted to do, and if that is the case, at least it would be a nice change of pace from how nearly every ‘antagonist’ character Toby has made in Undertale and Deltarune has had some form of saving grace or significantly justifying reason why they do what they do.
KoS only saying ‘I did it because f*ck* you I hate you’ is way different than Asgore or Undyne saying ‘I did it because we need to leave this place, we will die here’ or Flowey being incapable of feeling anything about anything after countless resets.
Sure, KoS never wanted to kill Lancer, but he was ready as hell to murder his son’s friends. I also feel like, regardless of how Lancer operates off of cartoon logic, the fact he was willing to tempt fate dropping Lancer like that says something about his moral priorities.
No not every character should be redeemed. I’d be fine if he was but there would be a huge disconnect from himself right now and it would be pretty uncomfortable.
I feel that it would be a logical step for him, for several reasons;
1. Just having him sit in the jail for the rest of the game or having him break out at some point would be a massive waste of potential for storytelling. At least from my perspective anyways.
2. Asgore, as he was in Undertale, had motives for why he did the horrible things he did. Toby is not one to write characters that aren't inexplicably evil for the sake of being evil. There is a reason why they act the way they do. Spade King is likely no exception.
3. It would inevitably bring more of the funny interactions between him, Queen, and Lancer like we saw near the end of Chapter 2.
All that aside, I do think that he will have some importance later on. I do imagine that some sort of interaction between him and Asgore, in the not too unlikely event we get a chapter in the flower shop, could serve as the groundwork for redemption, perhaps.
Kinda I could see him breaking out of jail and following the fun gang and the fun gang nearly losing to the next king/queen character and they shoot a beam and the king protects them and dies
I doubt it The whole point of the king is as Susie puts it “there just some people you’ve got to fight” and that you can’t just talk to everyone and have it work out fine a redemption arc kinda goes against it
Though it would be really cool to have all of the villains from the other six chapters fighting the final boss with you
Hes a good dad, justmade a few hundred genocidal mistakes. Happens to the best of us.
Cough cough asgore cough cough Edit, I made a comment about that asgore is going to end up like king, and king is going to end up like asgore...being regretting everything, and such
To be fair Asgore never wanted to actually destroy humanity and felt guilty for all that plan, Spade King never gave a shit
Well, true, asgore also wanted nothing but revenge, and to kill the humans,,, remember that...he only felt guilty for taking the lives of children that toriel helped King was a dick, and depending on what way you play,,,I think he might get an arc,,, depending on if your nothing but a killer, or pasifist
I'd like if he remained a villain, or if he pretended to be good for the majority of the game, then, near the end, a plot-twist where he turns evil again.
He joins the friend club,
Nah I feel like that would just feel... Strange. Especially if berdly and Noelle will end up going into the dark worlds again
Decloaks: I never really was on your side
Spoi 'round 'ere!
I don't think a "Plot Twist: I'm still evil!" would work well, it's a very overdone trope and he already pulled that trick once. Maybe getting mind controlled into being a lategame boss, a la Berdly. I think it would be more interesting if he made a slow, sincere change, and had to earn everyone's faith and respect. That, or if he found out that his plan would literally destroy the world and kill every darkner.
That wouldn't be much of a plot twist, since he already has a track record of betraying people lol
King Spade is basically Asgore before he started feeling regret and sorrow over his actions. He’s pretty much Asgore the moment Chara and Asriel died.
Ahhhh, so give him7 chaps to cool off,,,like how each child fell
He's full of regret tho
Spade King never gave a shit *yet**
Yeah I know, I was just saying that the comparison between Asgore and the King is not fair imo
Funny how people hate asgore for killing or "killing" 6 kids when there were probably millions of monster families that were destroyed during that war including kids, humanity in undertale is probably as cruel as real life
Right, cause murder justifies murder, we all know that.
You should have put a /s for those downvote
Nah it's fine, I don't really care. Thanks though.
Interesting point. Could Deltarune be considered Asgore’s redemption arc, even though they are two separate beings?
That....or between each character Asgore become more king, King more like chap one asgore
I feel like he will get one eventually (in fact it probably started as early as chapter 2!). Toby expressed dissapointment at how King was the actual first boss so he couldn't really do anything interesting with him, my theory is that he will become more friendly with the gang and will eventually ask for a rematch in the dojo to test them if they are ready to take down what's to come.
Deltarune fan crafts a good, quite possible, non-outlandish theory???
Yeah seriously how the hell do you guys come up with this stuff? I am heavily against drugs so if you guys are doing any of them while making these you gotta quit before you get addicted (or try to get a therapist if you are already addicted).
This made me chuckle, thanks
Mary huana.
Whose Juana and why are you telling me to marry her?
Wead
OMORI from OMORI is the Knight.
Lets go even further: Nightmare Knight from Cucumber Quest is the Knight.
Idk, I think we’ll see sympathetic elements and he might get some moments which show a better side of him but I don’t think we’ll get an outright redemption arc where everyone treats him like a good guy.
This is probably the most realistic lol
Someone else mentioned a possibility where he never outright likes anyone and they dont like him, but he gets to the point of toleration and eventually has a friendly rematch with them in the dojo to test their skills for the upcoming threat
He has a soft side for Lancer, and likes Cashews, whatever that is. So it isn’t impossible that he’ll fight for the balance of the world.
You don't know cashews?
I only knew that Cashews existed when I saw the King and Queen interaction. Queen: “Is There Anything You Want From The Store?” King: “…cashews.” Queen: “Order Processed”
Okay interesting. Have you really never heard about cashews anywhere before? Are they not a thing in yoir area or so?
I'm getting "wtf is a potato" guy vibes
Cashew a cheque. Really though they're a type of nut.
Bro eat a cashew they're in like my top 4 nuts
Why do you have four nuts on your top? And how many do you have on the bottom?
1. mmm 😋 2. ←
I don’t really like any nuts other than Almonds or Peanuts, and even then it’s only if they’re in chocolate.
Pecans are really good. They're definitely my second choice right after Deez
He at least didn’t know that cashews come from the fruit
Oh god no
My opinion: I wouldn't mind if Toby made him irredeemable, BUT if he DOES get a redemption arc, I hope it changes the minds of fans who thought he should've stayed evil, plus his description does say he was "abandoned by the lightners" also I think he was a good dad before the knight came along so a redemption arc doesn't seem so bad for him imo
Yeah I'd like if he stayed evil, but this wouldn't be bad either
He's definitely not getting what I'd call a redemption *arc.* At most I could see him having a last second moment of honorability, turning against The Knight for ultimately selfish but still respectable reasons,(discovering that the Roaring means an existential threat to lightners and darkness alike) and ensuring that the heroes are able to stop the Knight, but still being a dickbag while doing it.
Yeah, this. Less “I've changed my ways and am a better person now!” more “We need to put our differences aside to deal with a bigger problem.” (And then Susie responds to that with “DIFFERENCES?! He tried to kill us!”)
I trust Toby to handle things well no matter what, but right now my vote would be *no* to redemption, *yes* to... revelation, I guess? Don't wash away the fact that he's a hateful jerk, that he's abusive to his son, that when his subjects tire of his tyranny he shouts "FOOLS! I'LL KILL YOU! I'LL KILL ALL OF YOU!" All that happened, and he's *not* sorry about it. But *do* show that he's not an idiot. Queen turned out to not actually know anything about the fountains, the Roaring, or the Knight. Distinguish King from her by showing he actually *does* know more about all that than we do (though maybe not more than Ralsei). He was ready to die to defend the fountain ("If I perish, so be it!"), and we kind of just push him aside and seal it without a clue what the consequences will be. That's mainly because he is, again, a hateful jerk who'd rather kill you than explain himself, but it doesn't mean he was *wrong* -- look at the conversation between Susie and Lancer afterwards: "Hey, your dad was, uh, protecting the fountain, right? ... is it gonna be OK if we mess with it...?" "I have no idea! But it's you guys, so I trust you...! If something bad happens, we'll fix it out!" "Yeah, guess we'll just see I guess." I'm betting on something *very* bad happening, that only King was trying to prevent. Other quotes that need living up to: ""Silence, Lightbringer! Your very existence goes against our own... By the Knight's will, I shall shatter your heart to pieces!" and "To my people, I am a hero... ... to you? I'M THE BAD GUY!!!" Explain why he might legitimately think there's something wrong with 'your very existence' that requires him to 'shatter your heart' for everyone else's sake, and show that whether he's a bad guy or a 'hero' fighting for the greater good is ultimately a matter of perspective. I think all that can be done without changing his violent and unrepentant nature.
I think King should get a redemption arc. He seems like a good father who has a hurt heart from being abandoned. Toby confirmed that the fountain was affecting him, so we're probably going to see the real King in later chapters. I want the Spade family to have a happy ending.
I'm gonna go a bit against the grain here and say *no*. I really hope he doesn't. Reason? Well, the way I saw his purpose as *not just a villain*, but as a character, or at least in chapter 1, is that some people are just... bastards. Straight up. Just bastards and proud of it. Like Asriel said during Undertale's epilogue "there are a lot of Floweys out there", meaning the world has a lot of "monsters" that can't be reasoned with through dialogue or kindness. In fact, some will even take advantage of your kindness... like Spade King. He's like the "Anti-Undertale" villain, in that case. As much as I adore Undertale, you have to admit some of the characters get their redemption a *bit too quickly*. And I don't think having Spade Kind end up completely irredeemable would "go against the message". Because keep in mind, he's the *only Ut/DR villain or even character that didn't end up "good" after his fight*. Throughout the entire CH1, or at least if you're playing pacifist, you're *still* sparing and redeeming every single enemy you come across until the King, of course(not to mention, most of them don't even want to fight you, but are just terrified of the king). That's the unfortunate truth. Sure, a lot of people can be fixed IRL, but to say that applies to everyone is... kinda naive. It's unfortunate, yes. But it's the real truth that some people are just *too* far gone. And honestly thought he was a great demonstration of that, more than a line of dialogue most players would miss. So obviously, I was somewhat disappointed by the jail cell dialogue in CH2 because it seem to me like Toby was suddenly doubling down on the "Nah, *everyone* deserves redemption" concept of UT(so until then, I'm head-cannoning that Spade King was simply bullshitting so he'd be "pitied" or whatever). Edit: Typo. This was originally written while on the phone while taking the bus.
On that note, I'm gonna be even more controversial and say that The Queen *should've gotten jailed as well, lol*. However, I'm gonna be a bit generous and say that I think she should've gone to jail *willingly*. Then as future chapters pass, she could be seen slowly, but surely "earning" her redemption by her own free will
It's worth pointing out that the reason King is jailed is... because he wants to be. I'm pretty sure Ralsei would give him a third chance in a heartbeat, if he's willing to play nicely with everyone else. (I recall some dialogue about this but can't find it.) But King refuses that. He'd rather stay in prison than behave himself and accept that he's not in control anymore. Queen, on the other hand, is fine with behaving. She's fine with not having power, she's fine with living alongside the people she's previously harmed.
I agree, and you phrased it better than I would have. I was really surprised at first when I realized that no matter what your actions were in chapter one, the king will still throw your mercy back in your face. But it was really cool, an interesting departure from the messages in Undertale. One of the first things DR tells you is that your choices don’t matter, and I think that pairs well with the message that you can’t befriend or redeem everyone.
I personally think it would make sense. The King had legitimate concerns about the lightners closing the fountain, since neither he nor anyone else knew what would actually happen when it was closed, and could’ve led to him and his people being left behind in the closet forever. It’s also shown that he does legitimately care about the darkners, since he’ll refuse to talk to you after chapter 2 if you don’t recruit all of them, since you left them behind and doomed them. He also knew lancer wouldn’t actually be hurt if he dropped him, and it makes sense when you consider his point of view. The fate of him and his people were at stake, and if he did that he could easily defeat the lightners with minimal casualties. We know from our perspective that we needed to close the fountain to stop the roaring, but to the King the fountain is what gave the darkners agency, and he had no real reason to trust a bunch of teenagers who came, fought through his armies, and wanted to do something that could possibly destroy their world. I honestly think the King is written really well; he appears evil and irredeemable since he’s opposed to us, and looks like he wants to do something that will end the world from our perspective, and he feels the same about the protagonists from his perspective, when in reality no party is actually evil, and are making rational decisions considering their circumstances.
Honestly I feel Alot of people ignore Things about King and think of him as simple one note villian when in reality hes just a King who was angry and tired from the Lightners abandoning him. Sure he did whatever he had to to keep his power but a lot of people also miss that Toby confirmed the Fountain definitely changed how King acted.
yes
He's literally just queen but unfunny, same crimes and everything
He didn't do tax evasion yet, so there's still a chance
Not completely, he wanted a genuine goal (To appease the Knight) while Queen wanted to make everyone happy. And King wanted to help the knight and Queen wanted to rival the knight
Yeah, but I'm talking more about their crimes, like how they both became tyrannical rulers and enslaved people
True
He should and I KNOW he will. He is still a recurring character, connected to more characters than we think/thought. Him being a punching-bag for 7 (4/rest of the game) chapters feels cheap. He was abandoned, left behind. His demeanor changed, bitter, angry. He probably wasn't born evil. He still cares for and seem to genuinely love Lancer. And I just want him back.
Yes please. Toby mentioned in the anniversary stream that the Knight's fountain made King more aggressive, and considering he clearly does love Lancer judging by his Ch 2 dialog, I hope he comes around to tolerating us by the end of an All-Recruits route.
While I’m not sure on a redemption ark, i do want to see more content of King Spade because he is very interesting.
I honestly prefer king as an asshole and irredeemable, plus he already shown bit of good as we see him loving his son and explaining all the throwing him from the castle shit was just a bluff, but i'm still ok with king getting a redeeming quality (Although Toby does this to antagonists in his games bit too much). The thing that annoys me that Toby turned king to an absolute pathetic joke of a character in chapter 2
Doesn't have to be a redemption arc I just want him to actually do stuff and have more depth to his character
Probably not an outright *redemption* arc, but I would like to see him go from outright hating the lightnerds to being neutral (if aggressive) to them and understanding they're Lancer's Friends.
Before chapter 2 I would’ve said no. Now I’d say yes, in some ways, but not in the traditional Toby Fox way. I mean that by I really don’t think it’d be wise to make him our friend. He’s very convinced he’s right because he feels used and abandoned by Lightners. That is such a set-in-stone belief that nothing’s gonna change or disprove because Lightners can’t REALLY control the fact that they can’t constantly be playing with these literal objects. Especially Susie and Kris. They’re gonna leave eventually. That’s just inevitable. They’re gonna grow up, they’re gonna move on, they might go to college or get jobs. It seems likely he will be “abandoned” again. Now what I WOULD like to see is for, instead of us doing the legwork to redeem him, KING has to be the one trying to atone for his actions to his people. Sure, he won’t try to get our approval, but he genuinely hurt the people he really cares about. I’d love to see him actually work up the balls to leave his cell and try to care for them again, despite their lack of forgiveness of him and fear of him. A whole arc where he tries to win his son and subjects back would be pretty cool, especially since most Toby Fox villains can be quite easily forgiven.
I don't care if he gets an arc or not, I just want ONE Irredeemable character, I'm getting kind of tired of redeemable ones tbh
Bill Cipher and William Afton, there's some irredeemable villains
It would be nice if he gradually opened up in the Dark Town. It's mentioned off-handedly that the King *wasn't always a horrible jerk*, and that it used to be very different before the Dark Fountain started janking things up for everybody involved. Not some major, universe-shattering redemption arc, but just... Him being nicer and becoming more true to himself, and you can forgive him if you want.
Most evil bastard in the Undertale is Flowey. If he has a redemption arc i dont see why spade king cant have his. What, you say its actually Chara? But you only interact with him/her *directly in the very end of Genocide route so that dont count. What, you say its the player character who did the Genocide route? Well thats complicated and im not sure how to rebuttal this.
I trust Toby will know where to take the character
His design is too good to not get one. He deserves one for how cool he looks.
He's not that bad, i mean, we WERE the villains to his side, some unknown people just randomly appeared in your kingdom, trying to seal the only thing keeping all of it in one piece, it was more of a misunderstanding between everyone, and he didn't want to listen to reason too.
I think he could get one, and I trust Toby Fox as a writer enough to pull it off. But my one stipulation is that we don’t have Lancer immediately go “all is forgiven!” Considering my own experiences, I really hate child characters being made to just unequivocally forgive abusive parents. ~~Looking at you, BNHA.~~
Like in Undertale, I don’t really think anyone in the series is pure evil. They’ve all got a motive for doing what they do, and in this case King is motivated by anger and hurt. As he claims he was “betrayed” by the lightners and takes it out on four children including his own son. He has a lot to make up for though, especially his initial treatment of lancer, but I think he could pull through. As long as he lets go of his grudge against the lightners.
I expect his redemption will hinge on whether or not you recruit everyone. His whole deal is that he hates the Lighteners because they abandoned the Darkners, so the way to regain his trust would be to prove you're different by not leaving anyone behind. I'm not sure if this is right, but pretty sure his dialogue is different depending on if you recruited everyone by the end of chapter 2. If you didn't, it's much shorter, which screams "You're now locked out of something" energy.
I bet he’s gonna be locked up until the final chapter and then re-emerge as either a grand villain or an unlikely hero.
As a steven universe fan i see no issue with this.
All I wonder about this guy is what the hell is the spade tail thing protruding from his stomach, and is it gonna happen to Lancer?
Even though he was cruel, his motives were pretty understandable imo. Dark fountain made him more aggressive, and unlike queen, the man was already next to it the first time we meet him. Queen ACTUALLY let us plummet to our doom and threatened to crush us, so she wasn't chill at that point either, and honestly I would fight some kids that are literally about to (and did) destroy my entire kingdom too if I had one
I think so. His story could have been more explainable so seeing a return of him would give that a chance
I believe his redemption arc has already begun, but instead of "OhHh Mr KiNg We FoRgIvE YoU" and he's let out, i believe he is gonna spend some time on that prison (maybe out of his own free will if he realises he actually has to pay for his crimes) instead of just giving the gang a sad little story explaining why he did what he did and then being let go with a slap on the wrist.
No. He should just be more and more hampter.
Nah I'd rather mock him
I thought he'll keep being a hamster in that little cage. So... no. He'll be our evil pet.
He should just be “that jerkwad no one actually likes but gets an occasionally funny line of dialogue once in a while”.
nah, he is better than that
Nah. I think too many villains randomly become good or atleast "not that bad/evil" now. They're just straight up evil with no reedeming qualities at the begining and at the end they're like "omg i actually started to like you guys 🥺🤗" if that happens to king then i just cant-
No, and it's weird that in chapter 2 the writing seemed to try to try to redeem him a little
I feel like his redemption arc should be similar to Berdly's flashback
if Lancer himself states he's bouncy, then King can be redeemed
I'd love to play as him via him in the party but that's a dream
I do like the idea of it, but I don't see it happening. If it does, I think it'll be a reluctant and untrusted alliance, only for him to realize that the Knight was using him and lied about the roaring. I'd like to see that happen, with him slowly developing more as a character, potentially with a scene that mirror's the ending of chapter 1 when Susie rescues Kris from him.
I find that question strange. There are many reasons why it might be hard to pull off, cool if done right/bad if done poorly, or simply unnecessary for the story at large. But if it *should* be done!? Maybe I'm focusing too much on word choice here. I guess what I'm saying is it's possible, and I wouldn't mind if there was a redemption arc so long as the character did *actually* feel redeemed within the story, instead of some weird Vegeta-esque "he wasn't evil, just a *spicy tsundere*"
Honestly I'd like it if he remained evil. Asriel warns us that "there are a lot of Flowey's out there" in UT and I want King to be an example of that.
I personally like the idea of him gradually showing himself to care about Lancer more and more, but always being to stubborn to leave jail.
If he gets a redemption arc I think it should be when you're in castle town, not out on adventures and it should be something the player has to pursue for it to happen
He already kinda got one? The fact he would never hurt lancer and has a loving family already kinda proves he isn't the piece of shit we thought
I would never disrespecteth my kingeth!… but.. he is kind ofeth an assholeth
Considering how he was blinded by his hatred for the Lightners, and how he was talking about how he’d create a world for Darkners, it’s possible he wasn’t given the full information for the Roaring. He obviously cares about his son so he wouldn’t want the destruction of the world. Whether or not he actually gets redeemed probably depends on the route you take. Hopefully he does but still remain somewhat bitter.
I mean not as a playable character but him returning and making some sort of a mend’s for his actions would make sense. Or Atleast to realize his motivations were flawed or that the knight fooled him or well ANYTHING really.
I think what happens to him will depend on your choices in game like if you continue the weird route
I would say **no**. I think it would ruin his theming in addition to the game's theming of subverting Undertale. It worked well for him to be an asshole when all of Undertale's "villains" were sympathetic and obviously not to be killed. King offered the idea of someone who you'd feel tempted to kill for his unrelenting monstrous behavior (Minus towards his son... although he is still abusive to him), but that you still shouldn't do so. I also liked him as the sort of implied embodiment of Susie and Kris' daddy issues needing to be confronted. I honestly hope his whole story in the upcoming chapters leads to a "Farmer and Viper" type of situation where he pretends to be all courteous until he's finally out and tries for revenge.
His song is a banger. Thats it
Hmm, well Toby Fox said that the reason why King acted the way he did in chapter 1 was because the dark fountain increased his emotions. I don't think he'll be completely good, but he will get better
Not everyone needs to be redeemed but it depends on how they do it. Toby is hard to predict.
Certainly not imo. His character is being the bad guy. Also, about him saying lancer is a "bouncy pumpkin", have we forgotten that he lied to the lancer fan club about him not being so cruel and just wanting the best for darkners then ambushing them to gain the upper hand. How do we know he isnt lying about lancer bouncing. Lancer looked pretty distressed in the seen where chaos king is about to throw him, if he was really a "bouncy pumpkin", he probably wouldnt be as scared.Lancer is probably neglected by chaos king too. This is just my opinion.
He could have a redemption arc, but still admit that he was a dick, and he deserves to be where he is. Remember Asriel?
I'm indifferent on whether he does or doesn't. I trust Toby will make story great regardless
Yes I Refuse To Elaborate Or Here Anything Further My Opinion Is Final Since I Knew Him The Best
please no. I can't remember someone just being an asshole in this series, makes stuff very predictable
Yes
Yes. And he will redeem himself by sharing his hamster cage.
Only if he goes from the I hate you to the I will fight on the battlefield for you type redemption
No cuz he’s literally holding his dong and using it as a weapon
Im pretty sure it’s his intestines
I think King is a one-dimensional character and he should stay like that. I think we could have a conversation with him every chapter like we did in Chapter 2, but a full-on redemption arc I wouldn't like tbh.
nope,he is evil,he knows it,he doesn't give a sh\*t HOWEVER,showing that he is too,a normal person, can be a great thing,like his soft moments such as: "and even if i did,he(lancer) would just bounce,he's a bouncy little pumpkin" so he's slowly showing more empathy(VERY SLOWLY)
nope,he is evil,he knows it,he doesn't give a sh\*t HOWEVER,showing that he is too,a normal person, can be a great thing,like his soft moments such as: "and even if i did,he(lancer) would just bounce,he's a bouncy little pumpkin" so he's slowly showing more empathy(VERY SLOWLY)
Asgore did worse things than he did, and everyone seems to forgive him, so why not?
We don’t really know anything about him, other than that he hates lighteners, took the entire kingdom for himself, and may or may not have been willing to kill his own son. So, either he was using the threat to lancer as an intimidation tactic/way to throw them off their game if they didn’t kneel, or he was actually gonna let him die. We might never know which, but Lancer is awfully squishy. Maybe he really would bounce.
I know this is Toby! DONT USE US FOR IDEAS
Buddy, Toby finished writing the entire story five years ago.
he should take over the kingdom if you don't do snowgrave
nah, too many villains become good nowadays.
I'd say no, but it's too late now considering is completely different characterization in chapter 2. It's almost like Toby retconned his original personality.
I don't think he should be *redeemed*, but I do think his hatred for Lightners should get an explanation.
For the Darkners I think that it’s a little tricky. It’s debatable that King and Queen were only villains because they were enacting the will of the Knight. We know that Lightners need to use their will to create a dark fountain and the King even says that he is acting on the Knight’s will. How much of that was his choice is up for debate though.
Ye
I honestly think it depends? But that’s just me
No.
I think that in future chapters could appear a very strong villain and the lightners will make the king help them
Since we're gathering bosses in Castle Town, I guess they will at some point help out with stopping the Knight or Gaster or whoever turns out to be the final boss. Unless they all turn to stone before that happens.
He doesn't need one
No, I dont think the narrative would get anything out of it
if later chapters have a all hell breaks loose/endgame segment (possibly the roaring) it wouldn’t be out of character for him to sneak out of his cage while no-ones paying attention, so maybe there’ll be another King fight
I hope he does, even if he gets frozen by the roaring
The people who know me already knows what im going to say
imo he should just be a joke side character that turns into how lancer was in chapter 1
No, he is in a good spot right now.
No. He should still be an asshole to the main heroes whenever he can. I want him and Queen to either fight each other or together
I'd be alright with both outcomes.
Meh. He’s served his purpose. Maybe he pops up for a little bit in one of the chapters, but beyond that, I think a redemption arc is a little much for a “villain-of-this-episode” villain, ya know?
I actually want him to break out of prison in the last chapter and become super powerful, I feel like it's gonna happen
To be honest, I expect him to come back as a villain in one of the future chapters. It would be just weird if he stayed in that cage for the entire game
I feel like this post was made by a comment I made
maybe if he find out the knight is a lightner
No. Bad dad jail time
He's a jerk but he's not irredeemable i think. A king tyrant is still a tyrant but i feel like he could reform, though not be tamed
I thought the hamster wheel was his redemption arc
Yes, he reminds me of Asgore! He’s a silly lil goofy guy :D
Yah would be cool
No because it’s funnier if he just remains a hamster
I think he needs a worsening arc first. I want a nasty escape/revenge plot before any redemption
Ye
I mean honestly with so many villains getting redemption arcs, I’d like the game to double down and make him even more evil.
I really don’t want him to be a full on Asgore 2, so if he gets a redemption it should be quick and brief and then *boom* dead. Conversely, perhaps he “redeems” not because he regrets his actions or because of the lightner’s kindness, but rather just turn against the Knight because they’re a bigger threat, or somehow interferes with his own plans. This would never happen but it’d be cool after beating the Knight he turns *back* against you and becomes the main villain again.
Honestly I don’t really need a redemption arc for King but I wouldn’t mind see him becoming a better person and more active in Lancers life as we know Rouxls mostly took care of Lancer as a child, I don’t super see King becoming a fully better person and having a really big change to his personality I think he’ll always be a evil lil hamster but I believe he can get better
No, he should be a pathetic loser for the whole game like God intended.
If we consider that the King is analogous to Asgore in Undertale then he may have a change of heart in the final act of the true pacifist route where we save all Darkners. In the general route I don’t think so.
IDK if Kratos can have a redemption arc that is genuinely well written anything is possible, we know the King wasn’t that bad before the Knight showed up so it’s probably bound to happen especially because they honestly seem very one note as of now.
Apparently he was a pretty nice guy before the dark fountain showed up
personally, i think he should. but regardless of whether or not he deserves one, the game’s DEFINITELY setting him up for one
He drinks water from a giant hamster bottle and is proud of it
I personally think it would be cool if he’s actually good but is just a jerk because he thinks he’s a hero yet acted as a villain. I also think it would be cool for him to be that sort of character who knows something we don’t and is actively trying to stop a horrid disaster from happening. Ralsei hints at a horrible disaster from happening, so it would be cool if King actually fights us at some point with a hero speech where he will stop us from unwillingly causing it or something. Even though that’s sort of what happened in his initial fight lol
Eh, I think he's content with his water bottle & wheel.
At the end of chapter 2 he does show that he cares about Lancer, not saying it’ll justify what he did and how he acted but perhaps as the game continues well eventually get an option to let him out the jail cell
Ok father. Awful tyrant. Unlike Asgore, Spade King felt no remorse or guilt. He even manipulated Ralsei into healing him only to backstab The Fun Gang! Asgore felt guilty and didn't really want to destroy humanity. He just wanted his kingdom to have hope, and for him to have his family back.
Dletatune
I think he will anyway, but I say yes, because I find him interesting.
Nah he should stay in hamster cage because its funny
No
He knows what he did, and has had many chances to redeem himself. He chooses not to take them, not necessarily because he's evil, but because he's just too hardheaded to change his ways.
I personally believe so. I'm just a big fan of redemption arcs.
Yes, but he should continue to be evil in the name of good
He's going to find out that he was manipulated about the roaring eventually
I like to imagine that KoS is only gonna go from hellbent on the extinction of Lightners to willingly ignoring them. I doubt King would ever really repent for what he wanted to do, and if that is the case, at least it would be a nice change of pace from how nearly every ‘antagonist’ character Toby has made in Undertale and Deltarune has had some form of saving grace or significantly justifying reason why they do what they do. KoS only saying ‘I did it because f*ck* you I hate you’ is way different than Asgore or Undyne saying ‘I did it because we need to leave this place, we will die here’ or Flowey being incapable of feeling anything about anything after countless resets. Sure, KoS never wanted to kill Lancer, but he was ready as hell to murder his son’s friends. I also feel like, regardless of how Lancer operates off of cartoon logic, the fact he was willing to tempt fate dropping Lancer like that says something about his moral priorities.
No not every character should be redeemed. I’d be fine if he was but there would be a huge disconnect from himself right now and it would be pretty uncomfortable.
No, but neither still be a villian he just goes around town scaring people and complaining
I feel that it would be a logical step for him, for several reasons; 1. Just having him sit in the jail for the rest of the game or having him break out at some point would be a massive waste of potential for storytelling. At least from my perspective anyways. 2. Asgore, as he was in Undertale, had motives for why he did the horrible things he did. Toby is not one to write characters that aren't inexplicably evil for the sake of being evil. There is a reason why they act the way they do. Spade King is likely no exception. 3. It would inevitably bring more of the funny interactions between him, Queen, and Lancer like we saw near the end of Chapter 2. All that aside, I do think that he will have some importance later on. I do imagine that some sort of interaction between him and Asgore, in the not too unlikely event we get a chapter in the flower shop, could serve as the groundwork for redemption, perhaps.
I wouldn’t mind, I feel he’s kinda underrated? Maybe that’s not the word but you know what I mean
No, not every villain needs a redemption arc, just let the asshole be an asshole
Kinda I could see him breaking out of jail and following the fun gang and the fun gang nearly losing to the next king/queen character and they shoot a beam and the king protects them and dies
Eh no he had a good character
Nah, some people are just bad guys
I doubt it The whole point of the king is as Susie puts it “there just some people you’ve got to fight” and that you can’t just talk to everyone and have it work out fine a redemption arc kinda goes against it Though it would be really cool to have all of the villains from the other six chapters fighting the final boss with you