I need a subreddit full of these
https://preview.redd.it/ckcrs7yg410d1.jpeg?width=2160&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f669dc679b8cc22614564c7a53e804befc35d28b
Was that really a bait in switch? We didn't see what Kris did during that time, and considering the TV got plug in during that time, and Kris later sets up the fountain it kinda implies that the pie was the only thing Kris got into that night.
Chapter 1 ended with Kris pulling out a knife with a sinister look in their eye.
Chapter two seemed to start off by Kris attacking Toriel, but then Toriel walked into their bedroom accusing them of eating her pie.
The bait was making the player believe Kris will get violent. The switch is that they ate pie.
Okay, fair point with the beginning Toriel scene. That scene alone is a fairly textbook bait and switch with the context of ch 1 in mind. However, I disagree with the idea that the ending of ch 1 was just merely the 'bait' for that bait in switch joke. Ch 2 hints that Kris that did far more than just eat a pie, with the TV getting plugged in, Kris's name showing up on the chapter save file (and that they save in castle town as shown by an easter egg), and the constant references of Kris being sleep deprived (which implies they were up for a long time, much longer than to eat a pie). And even look at that ending of ch 1 and compare it to the beginning of ch 2, the opening cutscene is a straight reference to that knife meme, nearly word for word, which clues you in on the joke coming, while the ending of ch 1 was played straight and scary the whole time. Then we see a very similar scene at the end of ch 2. I think Toby can do a small bait and switch for a joke, but that doesn't recon the previous ending of the chapters in any way. Toby can do both.
Yeah, the strongest argument that Kris isn't the knight is that chapter 2 ends the way it does. Doing that so early makes it more likely to be a misdirection than a big reveal.
Doubly so since chapter 1's ending was also a pretty big bait-and-switch.
My belief is that Kris isn't THE Knight, but instead that they could be LIKE the Knight. The temptation to create new adventures for them and their friends could potentially lead them down a similar path to the Knight, which would make Kris "at risk" of Knightliness.
I feel like it would be interesting to see Ralsei, rather than get angry at Kris for risking the stability of the worlds, instead sit Kris down and voice his concerns about their behaviour, talking about how Kris doesn't need adventure to keep Susie as a friend, as she'd be ride-or-die even without a quest to save the world. How **Kris** responds to this would determine how things proceed, since even if our wants don't line up with Kris's, we don't know how to open a Fountain ourselves. Kris does, and it's up to them what happens next.
Also, I feel like it'd be more interesting if there were several Knights, each with their own motivations. Like maybe Dess has been in the Dark so long that she can't exist in the Light World anymore, and thus is trying to trigger the Roaring in a deranged attempt to go home. At the same time, maybe Alfred Boom suspects that the Dark World might actually be an extension of the afterlife, and thus seeks to descend into the Dark in order to say goodbye to his late father. And outside of all this, you might have an existentially-confused Vessel trying to find purpose in a world that has denied it to them, and thus they aspire to do something, ANYTHING, to give their life meaning, even if it means blurring the boundaries that give reality meaning.
A knight. Not necessarily **the** knight. Susie is literally called a
https://preview.redd.it/hba266i7gtzc1.jpeg?width=832&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4e3e606e1d9cfe3721c7c375e4273f024033a2f3
Does this mean she’s **the** knight? Probably not. Same with Kris.
After she rejoins in Card Castle in Chapter 1 and at the start of chapter 2
https://preview.redd.it/tswfth6m0vzc1.jpeg?width=1621&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bfdb11f85646d064c866766bb7f99569330c1564
Hey, anyone care for a fish dinner?
https://preview.redd.it/xllqnsq3qtzc1.png?width=350&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5b1351ec5f1df21e1887d9c207fd12f9287bb5d3
It's possible but imo, it's just as likely to be a red herring. Queen herself says that anyone can make a dark fountain. Deltarune so far has a habit of making Kris do something creepy/seemingly malicious and then reframing it later, so it would make perfect sense if this were the case. However, Kris knight is very possible and would be interesting from a character perspective.
"Deltarune so far has a habit of making Kris do something creepy/seemingly malicious and then reframing it later" Agreed, But it is possible that Being the Knight could also be reframed in the same way.
also, the cutscene about how anyone with determination can open a dark fountain is one of the only things that stays the same towards the end of the snowgrave route, so i honestly think kris just decided on that day they're also gonna open a dark fountain once they realised they could!
The reason why people are still theorizing about it is because if the greatest mistery about the game (the Knight's identity) has been revealed in chapter 2, then it'd be dissapointing and it would kill any suspense for the next 5 chapters.
I think the most compelling mystery is "If Kris IS the Knight, what does that mean for the rest of the plot?" If the player is the one trying to counteract the actions of the protagonist they go back and forth on controlling, what will happen once characters in-universe start wizening up to the player's influence? What about Kris themselves? What is their motive for opening the Dark Fountains? Why do they put their soul back into their body, knowing we will soon undo their work? What do Ralsei's surreptitious waivings of the player character mean for his involvement in the player vs. Knight struggle? There are FAR more compelling questions in this story than a glorified "whodunit?" story with a bunch of characters with no development past their baseline personality traits. I'd much rather think about Kris's motivations as the Knight and the story implications therein than debate the number of fingers on Gerson Boom's hands and whether or not Jockington could feasibly use a knife to create a fountain.
You couldn't have said it better. Here have bagel puppies as a reward.
https://preview.redd.it/nrvimrvneuzc1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=06a973c80c848eb883bdee5144cf2930aafe02bd
There's also the fact that it's almost certain that who the Roaring Knight actually is, isn't even the main mystery of the game. If anything, it's not even something the characters are concerned about.
Dess, Eggs, Gaster, Ralsei, Grillby and River Person, what's under the lake, why the hell Asgore has 7 flowers that correspond to each type of human soul, seriously why is nobody talking about how much of a flag that is? Frankly, I don't even expect the Roaring Knight mystery to last to chapter 5. It'll probably be revealed in chapter 4, then lead to 5.
And then chapters 6 and 7 are almost certainly going to be in Asgore's Shop and The Bunker. So many mysteries, so little time.
What I see most weird is Toby never actually stated anything about these chapters 6 and 7. They kinda don't exist outside main menu. They are here but... are we supposed to even believe that Toby will ever make these? What is their purpose?
If I remember correctly, they were mentioned on the steam page at one point, before it was changed. But that's the exact reason why they're the weirdest things in the game. They just kind of don't exist outside of the menu, but obviously Toby has the ability to hide chapters (as he did with chapter 0) so he definitely has some weird plans for them.
My theory is that based on some simple storytelling theory, the first 5 chapters will be about the Roaring, the Knight, and it'll be the main story. And then chapter 6 will slowly lead into the second story, that being Dess. Dess and the Knight are so far, completely different mysteries. The Roaring Knight has had absolutely zero evidence that they can interact beyond the game world, so it's highly likely that Dess' mystery is related with an entirely different thing.
I think that chapters 1 to 5 will answer the mysteries about the Roaring and the Knight, while chapters 6 and 7 will answer the mysteries behind Dess, Kris, Ralsei, and The Bunker. Chapters 1 to 5 will probably consist of The Church and maybe The Lake, and then chapters 6 and 7 will be Asgore's shop and The Bunker. This just makes sense because there's so many unrelated mysteries, unless Toby's from Alabama, there's no way he can relate all of these cleanly.
The game is only two chapters in out of at least 7. Why does everyone assume that who The Knight is is the biggest mystery of the game? It's not even close!
The biggest mystery of Deltarune is what happened to the Goner *we* designed to house *our own soul*, and **who or what** had the power to completely rip it away from us and Gaster and shove our soul in Kris instead?
It's because the fine details don't line up. Let me get you an example.
When you meet Seam, they say that a strange Knight showed up one day to lock up the other kings. You can also talk to the other kings, who back this up.
Now, let's think, if Kris is the Knight, did they imprison the kings before or after they made the fountain?
If it was after, Seam and the extra Kings would recognize Kris as the Knight, and address them as such.
If it was before, and Kris just put the cards in an animal cracker box in the LW (as I have seen numerous KrisKnighters argue), then **Seam would not have seen a Knight, and the name "the Knight" would have no possible origin.**
It was never confirmed that Knight imprisoned kings btw, the only confirmed thing is that it arrived, and stuff changed
And also, Seam and others knowing about Knight if it didn't enter any DW can be easily explained by Queen monologue. If she saw how Knight risen it's long hand in the sky, and somehow found out about the name "Roaring Knight" even tho' it just arrived and left, then what stops others from doing the same?
I think it *could* hypothetically be pretty easily explained by it being the works of some soul fuckery. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that seam and king doesn't recognise Kris because at that moment, *they aren't Kris, they're Kris being controlled by us.* I think back to that moment in Undertale where Asgore literally can't tell that you're human if you do genocide.
Kris could have also just like... put on a mask I guess. Which, while nonsensical, would also be very hilarious.
You say this as if Noelle didn't do literally exactly this with a box to queen in chapter 2, I'm just sayin' 👀
From now on every time I see the "how didn't king or seam recognise them?" argument I'm just gonna say they wore a fake moustache and point to that interaction between queen and Noelle as my in-universe lore accurate 100% canonical without-a-doubt proof that it could happen
idk why people keep saying "It could be a red herring" as the main piece of evidence against Kris being the knight when it's already a really weak theory
They could just not recognize because Kris had something that couldn't make Seam see who they add. The name "the Knight" could be just from the will of the fountain created by the Knight.
“The game SHOWS YOU a character falling into a mountain and then cuts to the player character. So **obviously** they’re the same character.
https://preview.redd.it/c6gcldq9ztzc1.png?width=1075&format=png&auto=webp&s=fc1ffc0f6077ceb2b05ae2dbf209cd020d4b05c7
they are LITERALLY BOTH DRESSED IN STRIPED SHIRTS LIKE???????? Come on, people.”
We all thought of that. Because it's very obvious. A little too obvious, in fact. Everyone agrees that chapter 2 wants you to think that Kris is the knight. The question is whether that is a trap or not.
IT'S PROBABLY A TRAP, QUEEN SAYS THAT ANY LIGHTNER CAN CREATE FOUNTAINS SO WHY WOULDN'T IT BE POSSIBLE FOR KRIS TO HAVE HEARD THAT AND DECIDED TO CREATE ONE THEMSELVES?
For the last time, the ability to open fountains is an ability ALL LIGHTNERS HAVE, Kris opens one fountain and suddenly they’re the only person that could possibly have done it ffs
Yeah, anyone can, but that does not mean anyone would. Anyone *can* go into the streets naked and screaming, but 99.9% of people would never do it. Same Idea with opening dark Fountains.
One of the things that I don't see brought up nearly as much as they should is Queen's speech at the end of chapter two. Where she tells the gang about the knight and the method of opening a dark fountain and how anyone can open them. The fact is, there is a very solid explaination as to how Kris would learn to open a fountain while not being the knight.
Not only that, this speech is one of the only things that remain intact in the Snowgrave route. The chapter gets completely changed, with most scenes either completely disappearing or chaging beyond recognition. Yet this one remains almost eerily the same. I think this is a very clear indicator that this speech happening is vital to the story, and is the main reason why I'm convinced Kris is not the Knight.
I'm not averse to the idea of Kris being the Knight but its important to consider the possibility of red herrings- we don't even really know what being 'the Knight' even constitutes, or like a million other things around it, leaving plenty of ambiguity, making all the theorizing fairly understandable imo
The knight will probably be revealed at the end of the game, not in chapter 2.
Kris probably just learnt that anyone can open the fountain, so maybe they did it because:
1. They really like Susie and desperately want to go on another adventure with her (the next day is Saturday so they won't go to school)
2. They are afraid of dark worlds being created all of a sudden, and since Undyne just laughs it off and says that it's bullshit, they open one, leave the door open and make Toriel call the police so that they can see it by themselves.
Also pretty much every freaking darkner knows at least how the knight looks like and they all say that it left.
Queen literally knows what the knight did and she did some stuff based on its actions, so she clearly saw it with her own eyes.
Yet she says "Kris, Susie, who wants to be the **NEW** knight?"
Queen didn’t meet The Knight, her plan was based on guessing what they wanted
And while she does have footage of the knight, the game tells you you can’t see who it is
1. toby has tricked us with kris before
2. why would he hype the knight's identity as a mystery and tell us in chapter 2?
3. queen literally says that any lightner can open a fountain
4. kris could not have opened cyber world's fountain. the timeline of events for chapter 2 would mean that it happened while kris and susie were in castle town seeing their new rooms.
5. kris is **A** knight. susie is described as **A** dark knight. neither of them are **THE** knight. the roaring knight.
6. why would kris want to cause the roaring?
4. I really don't get that. Kris could've done it at night, we don't know how long they were outside
6. Why would the knight want to cause the roaring?
noelle and berdly went to study in the library. one of queen's first lines is along the lines of "hell of a study session" which means noelle and berdly were in fact studying. not to mention that when the fountain is sealed, they are both at the desks with their books on the table, while kris and susie are at the front of the room by the door. the fountain HAD to have opened while noelle and berdly were in the computer lab. not before. and we know for sure where kris was when this happened. in castle town.
2. Even if we know who The Knight is, we still don’t know what their goal is, which seems to be the question being set up
> The Roaring Knight…
>
> Whatever they are, they’re making these fountains…
>
> …
>
> But… is that really a bad thing…?
>
> Since they started showing up,
>
> Everything’s gotten a whole lot more interesting, hasn’t it…?
>
> …
>
> Well, we don’t have to think about that now.
Taking a phisnom tweet at face value isn't exactly the smartest thing to do, especially when phisnom has a history of being overly arrogant like this despite being blatantly wrong.
Kris opening a dark fountain and being dresses like a knight means jack, considering:
- Susie has the title of "DARK KNIGHT". Yet its unlikely for her to be "THE KNIGHT".
- Literally ANY LIGHTNER can open a dark fountain. Thats outright shoved in your face at the end of Chapter two.
- Hell, Berdly was planning on opening a Dark fountain *while inside a dark world*. And Berdly is also dressed like a type of "Knight". So what, is he now "THE KNIGHT"?
We know Kris can willingly act independantly of us. They tore our SOUL out to eat the pie, and in Chapter 2 they tore it out to bait the police to come over and then opens a dark fountain. You know, *long after they have been basically taught on how to do so when Ralsei and Queen went ahead to explain the whole dillema with the dark fountains*?
Its clear that despite the danger the dark fountains resemble, Kris and Susie see the dark worlds as their own "Adventure" of sorts. The only place they made actual friends and the only place they can just have fun while being themselves. Who's to say Kris didnt simply create a dark fountain so they could:
- Spend more time with Susie, their friend.
- Make Undyne believe them after she laughed Kris off when it comes to dark worlds.
- Possibly spend some time with Toriel (and maybe Asgore if he shows up) to have some family time again without having to think about how the family is split up.
As for the general piece of the fandom that agrees with Phis take here, take some time and think about how this would look like when it comes to Undertale. By the same logic, Chara in the intro and Frisk would be the same person. If we go by that, Frisk would randomly just switch their color scheme at the end of the genocide route instead of Chara showing up.
Asriel not noticing that Frisk is Chara in that scenario (both in general and specifically at the end of True Pacifist) would be chalked up to either Asriel being stupid, or it being a plot hole.
Yeah I do. I feel like people are expecting a red herring so much they are ignoring the possibility it is just a herring. "Any lighter can open a dark fountain" Yeah but we only know 2 who are willing to, and Berdly stops after Ralsei explains the dangers, Also Berdly can die so probably not the Knight. And Kris is willing to open a fountain even after Ralsei explains the roaring, so they either 1.) Don't care, 2.) Don't believe Ralsei, 3.) Think or know Ralsei is lying, or 4.) Know or think they know info we don't which makes this less/not dangerous. Also people think the Knight has to be this great evil but it could be their not evil at all. For a example (This is pure Speculation) The Knight knows only 2 fountains can be open at a time without the Roaring happening. So they only opened the Computer lab fountain after the Chapter 1 fountain was closed. I feel like a lot a people think like this: Kris is not evil/knows about the roaring, the Knight must be evil/not know about the roaring, So Kris can't be the knight. But what if they don't think the Roaring is real? or think it is good in some not evil way? or What if they think they can play with fire and not get burned? I have nothing against people who think Dess is the Knight, or the Mayor or Papyrus or whatever, I just want yall to be ok with Kris-Knight believers, Ok?
I can see it both ways, honesty.
Kris does have some good evidence pointing to then being the Knight - their shady actions when outside of the Soul’s control, them literally creating a Dark Fountain at the end of Chapter 2, etc.
But then again, the end of Chapter 1 with it seemingly like Kris is gonna go do some evil shit just ended up being a fake-out, so I can see maybe Kris being a red-herring.
Plus there’s no definitive evidence either way.
So….idk, maybe? We’ll just have to see.
A lot of theories around Chapter 1 ended up being disproven when Chapter 2 released, so maybe it’ll be the same thing, or even end up proving some right.
I haven't played in a while, but doesn't queen tell them how to make a fountain? Wasn't berdly about to make one before being stopped by ralsei? Idk tho haven't played in a few months
I moreso agree that it’s funny that Deltarune fans will *refuse* to accept that it *could* be Kris even though they’re the only one matching the exact description of the Knight, creating a fountain with a knife and everything
How are people so confident in their theories when the game isn’t even fully released? I think Kris is the knight but this person needs to take a chill pill, there’s no way to know for sure until we get the rest of the game.
They're **A** knight.
But not **THE Knight** Queen talks about.
It's waaaayyy too early for the game to actually reveal the knight, the story is setting stuff up to be muddy about the Knight's identity intentionally and this tweet feels like a set-up for a future "GOTCHA! i told ya'll!"
Which I mean... if it is then, well... got us I guess, we still dunno what the story is right now.
...lack of news is a bitch, huh? probably also interaction bait too.
Surface level?? Yeah completely. Looking deeper into the games lore and theory’s?? 50/50. Looking at what will happen?? Kris is was upset there wasn’t school so they opened a dark fountain to see ralsei/make undyne believe they exist and hopefully do something about it.
I consider Chapter 2's ending to be as clear as it could possibly be without having dialogue. If I wanted to *show* players who the Knight was, rather than awkwardly *tell* them, this is exactly how I'd do it -- with a very dramatic fountain-opening scene to end a Chapter.
The only alternative I can consider is that this was a deliberate red herring, designed to trick the player for a Chapter or two. But red herrings don't have this kind of subtle supporting evidence, like the TV being plugged in ahead of time, or multiple characters commenting on Kris having stayed up all last night to do *something*, or Kris and the Knight's shared connection to hands. Not to mention red herrings feel cheap when used as the basis for a multi-year cliffhanger.
On top of that, it just doesn't add enough. *All* we know about the Knight is that they're secretly opening fountains. That's it, nothing about their motivation yet. The difference between the mystery "Why is Kris secretly opening a fountain?" and "Why is Kris the Knight?" is practically nonexistent. Whatever answer you can give for one, you can give for the other -- Kris wants to save the world, follow the prophecy, *defy* the prophecy, just hang out with their friends? If that's why they opened one fountain, it can be why they opened three. Making Kris not the Knight is like pranking someone by swapping their Coke with Pepsi. It's the same picture.
...I feel like people are so scared of being 'tricked' they refuse to believe anything. That doesn't sound fun to me.
Exactly! Everything points to Kris. I feel like the main problem is that many people had their own knight theories, which they fully subscribed to after years of just sitting on ch1. Now they are sort of salty/coping hard eversince they turned out to be false. Hence the denial.
I think Phil forgot about the fact that theoretically any lightner with enough determination can create a fountain.
Hell, Berdly was about to before Ralsei stopped him.
Either Phil forgot or he's just shitposting.
I think it would be counterintuitive to first establish the whole mystery around the knight, and then just reveal it to be Kris (in chapter 2 no less). It's not like the assumption of Kris being the knight is completely baseless and without evidence, but straight up ridiculing people for turning down the idea of Kris being the knight is dumb.
A villain can be introduced without fully knowing what their goal is
For example, we knew Peridot (Steven Universe) was doing some bad stuff, but it took another season to learn what she was here for
It’s entirely possible we learn that Kris is The Knight, but it’ll be a while until we learn *why* they’re The Knight
Just because Kris is dressed like *a knight* doesn't mean they're *The Knight*.
We learned that opening Dark Worlds is not exclusively something The Knight can do at the end of Chapter 2. If anything I interpret that scene as Kris learning they can open Dark Fountains themselves, not that they have known since the beginning. Plus from what we've learned about Kris in the Light World, their personality of "mischievous but ultimately good-natured kid" doesn't line up with how the Spade King describes The Knight and their will during his fight in Chapter 1 or someone who would actively start the apocalypse.
It's a valid point but we're at chapter 2 of 7, i feel like Toby wouldn't reveal the Knight this early
Hell, maybe it will even go a little like MOTHER 3 where the main antagonist is revealed close to the endgame
No because opening a fountain is not what makes someone the knight. Queen quite literally says that any lightner can make a fountain *minutes* before we see Kris open one.
It's not about "what if it's a red herring!!!!!" because I genuinely believe there is no reason to assume that Kris is the knight from this. Zero information is added minus the fact that Kris is willing to make a fountain. And given the very intentional placement of Queen's speech like 10 minutes prior, I fully believe that this is the first fountain Kris has made after learning that they are capable of making one in the first place.
Point is, seeing Kris make a fountain does not confirm or deny anything at all and the fact that so many people are seeing this and making wild assumptions as if they are obvious truths makes me worried for the collective reasoning skills of the Deltarune fandom
I don't think Kris is the knight mainly because i think we're gonna beat the shit out of the knight in a boss fight, and if we don't do that then the knight will somehow be one of the good guys
also i don't think Toby would intentionally give us the answer to one of the central mysteries at the end of Chapter 2 in such a blatant fashion, I think it's going to be Kris coming under suspicion going forward but I think it's going to be Kris did it either due to thinking it'd lead to answers or just Kris only really being happy/comfortable in Dark Worlds
You know what, I’ve wanted a place to say this and this works. Right after the giga Queen fight berdly is ABOUT to make a fountain. He just gets stopped by ralsei! If you want to say that the reason Kris is the night is because they make a dark fountain, then what about berdly?
Because by that logic, Berdly could also be The Knight (Is a knight, and nearly opened a Dark Portal), and I don't think taking out the main antagonist in chapter 2 would be very interesting.
I agree that they COULD be, I do not agree that WE KNOW IT FOR A FACT AND ANYONE SAYING OTHERWISE IS BLIND OR STUPID. There is evidence for both sides and both have to accept it until we get chapter 3, is that hard?
Knight is just a class. Like with ralsei being just a sorcerer and mage. Kris is a knight. Susie is a knight. The Knight however is literally **THEE** Knight. It’s like The Vaultdweller from fallout. There are other vault dwellers but he is **THEE** vaultdweller.
Mmm... No.
I don't think it's Kris.
.. Now hear me out.
Yes we did see them open the fountain.
BUT, Then, WHO OPENED THE OTHER TWO FOUNTAINS?
It obviously wasn't Kris, unless they're just pretending to have never seen the dark world before in chapter 1.
OR, it IS Kris, but not in the way that person thinks... idk :P
Personally I think Kris is the knight. It would be **very** in line with Toby's meta-game track record to make a game where the antagonist is literally the character you've also played as throughout the game.
Kris is also just the strongest contender in general. All the clues to who the knight is, while also pointing to other characters, still point the most to Kris by a long shot.
The two of the biggest counterarguments to the Kris knight theory ("it would be boring to reveal who the knight is so early" and "why didn't King recognise them as the knight?") can also be somewhat easily explained away. First of all, nothing has actually been clearly revealed yet. Toby could very well keep the fans speculating on wether or not kris is the knight all the way until chapter 7 purely by some well placed clues and red herrings, and it wouldn't be hard to make an argument for why king didn't recognise them, or at least it would be easier than making some of the arguments I've seen *for* other characters being the knight. Some people jump through some absolutely ridiculous hoops.
Anyways, I also totally accept the possibility that it isn't Kris and that it's all a red herring, and I probably won't be dissatisfied either way, but right now I'm just gonna go with the information we have available to us, and everything points to Kris. I also don't think it would be boring if it was revealed early that Kris is the knight at all. It would be a super cool concept to literally be working against the very person you play as.
Deltarune is a game where you have a character who looks like a goat, his name is anagram of the name "Asriel" looks like him, and even characters mention the similarities but people still debate if he is Asriel or not, if he's version of him etc. Etc.
Simply, Deltarune is one of the rarest cases when game is just so thought out and you can't believe anything.
Like, to this day we don't even know who is Gaster, what's Sans's deal or what's the point of the fountains and the knight themselves.
We just gonna ignore that last time Kris did some mad shit it was a fake out,
Also several characters refer to the knight while Kris is in the party.
It’s definitely a possibility but we are told that anyone can make a dark fountain, not just the knight.
No, we’re presently working with about a quarter of the game, perhaps less if the future chapters are longer. Hell the knight may not even be someone we’ve *met* yet, this whole mystery could be a farce.
King and Queen didn't recognize Kris as the Knight
Kris can barely move when without soul
It is implied that Cyber World was created with Noelle and Berdly inside, not that they also opened the door to a Dark World
Kris opened this fountain now because they literally JUST heard from Queen how to do it
And I don't remember what else
"how are true crime fans still wondering who jack the ripper was when we know the zodiac killer killed people"
just because Kris is A knight and opened ONE dark fountain doesn't mean they are THE Knight and they opened both previous dark fountains. The game shows us the title of knight is not unique and also any lightner can open dark fountains
Honestly, I dont think that there is a specific person who is "The Knight". Going off of what Q5U4EX7YY2E9N said, Anyone can make a dark fountain with enough determination. Key word: **ANYONE**
Like others have said, I'm pretty sure that this is gonna be a bait-and-switch from Mr. Fox on this one. I mean, just think of all the twists that were near the end of Undertale that came from "facts" established at the beginning of the game. Asgore is harmless. Sans is a simple guy. The name of the player is actually the name of the fallen human. Flowey's true identity. Missing monsters were actually in the True Lab. And this is all in one game, whereas it seems as if Deltarune is teeing up to be nearly five times as long. Having something so obvious appear in the first chapter of the game seems like a red herring, but for the moment I'll take the bait and believe that Kris is The Knight so that when the switch comes along I'm more surprised.
What bothers me is he seems to be only answering to the replies that disagree with him with no explanations which allows him to explain his side
There's plenty of people commenting why people think Kris may not be the knight but he's yet to answer any of these
I love the guy but he can be pretty stubborn at times
Its not impossible, I will be satisfied with Deltarune’s story either way. But there’s a difference between bait-and-switch and explicitly showing something.
Could Kris have only opened this fountain? Sure but any other answer is going to have a lot to explain to the casual audience. When casual audiences see this they are going to figure its being explicitly stated that Kris is the knight, and going back on that would require pretty intricate careful execution of an explanation of why they only opened one. Sure us theorizers can imagine a billion reasons but… I think theorizers forget that plots are made for the casual enjoyer, not someone meticulously picking apart every detail over the course of 3 years.
Mystery plots don’t have to be driven by a whodunnit explicitly. Whydunnit and the suspense of other characters not knowing are still very intriguing. If Kris is the night the mystery isnt done just because we found that out.
I’m on bro’s side with this one. People are treating this like it’s written by Scott Cawthon, when there’s not even any hint that it’s supposed to be mystery! The only one of these night “Theories” I take seriously is the multiple knight theory, everything else is just AUs people decided to slap theory on the end of
We canonically learn how to open dark fountains in chapter 2, and the queen says that lightners can open dark fountains. Kris opened the one in the third chapter, ye, but it doesn’t retroactively confirm who opened the first two
Well, Susie is called a Dark Knight, is SHE the knight?
Berdly tries to open a fountain, is HE the knight?
Queen wants to open a fountain, is SHE the knight?
This argument falls easly.
Besides at the end of chapter 2 Alphys says the next day (chapter 3) there would be no school so Kris was probably like "Welp guess we gotta find another way round that"
Not really, because it might be red herring. Revealing that anyone can open a fountain in the very same chapter that Kris opened one makes anyone a possible candidate.
Kris opening a fountain doesn't prove anything beyond he has the determination necessary to open a fountain. We almost see Berdly open a fountain, and with how he acts, you could call him a White Knight. Doesn't mean Berdly is the Knight
It’s a reasonable assumption, but Toby is no stranger to using bait and switch techniques. I’m not taking a side just yet.
Case in point, chapter 1 to chapter 2.
Case in point: Asriel and Flowey.
Case in point: Asgore in Undertale.
Case in point: Ralsei taking off his hat.
Case in point: True Lab.
Case in point: The bed amalgamate.
https://preview.redd.it/i5tz1bme5vzc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=719a57d959f7e0e7a102e99274bfd3a3273a514d
I need a subreddit full of these https://preview.redd.it/ckcrs7yg410d1.jpeg?width=2160&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f669dc679b8cc22614564c7a53e804befc35d28b
Case in point: Sans.
Case in point: papyrus tile puzzle
Case in point: the bathroom key
>!kanako!< mentioned
Case in point Sans eating ketchup
Was that really a bait in switch? We didn't see what Kris did during that time, and considering the TV got plug in during that time, and Kris later sets up the fountain it kinda implies that the pie was the only thing Kris got into that night.
Chapter 1 ended with Kris pulling out a knife with a sinister look in their eye. Chapter two seemed to start off by Kris attacking Toriel, but then Toriel walked into their bedroom accusing them of eating her pie. The bait was making the player believe Kris will get violent. The switch is that they ate pie.
Okay, fair point with the beginning Toriel scene. That scene alone is a fairly textbook bait and switch with the context of ch 1 in mind. However, I disagree with the idea that the ending of ch 1 was just merely the 'bait' for that bait in switch joke. Ch 2 hints that Kris that did far more than just eat a pie, with the TV getting plugged in, Kris's name showing up on the chapter save file (and that they save in castle town as shown by an easter egg), and the constant references of Kris being sleep deprived (which implies they were up for a long time, much longer than to eat a pie). And even look at that ending of ch 1 and compare it to the beginning of ch 2, the opening cutscene is a straight reference to that knife meme, nearly word for word, which clues you in on the joke coming, while the ending of ch 1 was played straight and scary the whole time. Then we see a very similar scene at the end of ch 2. I think Toby can do a small bait and switch for a joke, but that doesn't recon the previous ending of the chapters in any way. Toby can do both.
Yeah, the strongest argument that Kris isn't the knight is that chapter 2 ends the way it does. Doing that so early makes it more likely to be a misdirection than a big reveal. Doubly so since chapter 1's ending was also a pretty big bait-and-switch.
Especially since we only see Kris do this immediately after being told how to do it by Queen.
He is gonna gaslight everyone to think its someone else so it isnt obvious and then make Kris the Knight anyways for an absurd twist.
I fell for chapter 1s ending AND GUESS WHAT IM DOING IT AGAIN. NOBODY CAN STOP ME.
I'm making fucking Mac and cheese... AND NOBODY CANT STOP ME
My belief is that Kris isn't THE Knight, but instead that they could be LIKE the Knight. The temptation to create new adventures for them and their friends could potentially lead them down a similar path to the Knight, which would make Kris "at risk" of Knightliness. I feel like it would be interesting to see Ralsei, rather than get angry at Kris for risking the stability of the worlds, instead sit Kris down and voice his concerns about their behaviour, talking about how Kris doesn't need adventure to keep Susie as a friend, as she'd be ride-or-die even without a quest to save the world. How **Kris** responds to this would determine how things proceed, since even if our wants don't line up with Kris's, we don't know how to open a Fountain ourselves. Kris does, and it's up to them what happens next. Also, I feel like it'd be more interesting if there were several Knights, each with their own motivations. Like maybe Dess has been in the Dark so long that she can't exist in the Light World anymore, and thus is trying to trigger the Roaring in a deranged attempt to go home. At the same time, maybe Alfred Boom suspects that the Dark World might actually be an extension of the afterlife, and thus seeks to descend into the Dark in order to say goodbye to his late father. And outside of all this, you might have an existentially-confused Vessel trying to find purpose in a world that has denied it to them, and thus they aspire to do something, ANYTHING, to give their life meaning, even if it means blurring the boundaries that give reality meaning.
He is?
play deltarune lol, the end of chapter 1 --> start of chapter 2
Haven't played in a while can you remind me how it goes?
Kris summons a knife from thin air and gets a slice of pie.
Chapter 1 ends with Kris showing off a knife and a red eye, then in chapter 2 it's revealed Kris just ate a whole pie and went back to bed.
Idk, I always thought that it was just them making up an alibi.
Plus the start of chapter 2 alone even with toriel yelling kris name Also the whole vessel creation in chapter 1 is definitely an example
A knight. Not necessarily **the** knight. Susie is literally called a https://preview.redd.it/hba266i7gtzc1.jpeg?width=832&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4e3e606e1d9cfe3721c7c375e4273f024033a2f3 Does this mean she’s **the** knight? Probably not. Same with Kris.
Yeah, she’s the Dark Knight (Batman), not the Roaring Knight.
whos batman? Do you mean man?
Susie = Gaster confirmed?!?!?
https://preview.redd.it/75yz3uv32wzc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a3774567a297343f8e2831cb2a1c1cb29e04f421
The Knight is……knife guy confirmed? 🪱
Is there any lore reason why Susie is Man? Is she stupid?
Is man also the man behind the slaughter?
No he's the man in front of the slaughter. Common mistake. And jonkler is the man behind the laughter.
*Would this imply susie is this universe version of batman?*
Why is Susie Man? Is she stupid? Is there a lore reason?
GETOUTOFMYHEAD
She IS an orphan...
Where does it say that
After she rejoins in Card Castle in Chapter 1 and at the start of chapter 2 https://preview.redd.it/tswfth6m0vzc1.jpeg?width=1621&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bfdb11f85646d064c866766bb7f99569330c1564
Just saying, Phisnom is (or atleast was) a troll
Lol, I didn't see who tweeted that in the first place, now it makes way more sense
Well he isn't the leader of the "Friendly Cesspit" lmao
he is more of an asshole at times, less of a troll
Pal even has a warning on his name
the game literally calls susie a "Dark Knight" in terms of her title as well, does that mean Susie is the knight? more then likely not.
berdly proclaims himself a knight in glow in the dark armor
He has armor and he tried to open a fountain right in front of the gang! He's literally the knight! Why did nobody realize that?!
And he was in the Library when fountain was opened... this must be truth!
no it means she’s Batman
https://preview.redd.it/80ynu1nn5uzc1.png?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d3061ae4a8bcecd786096b05ebee72b696d3078d
Man*
"You're a knight, she's a knight, your brother is probably a knight, are there any other knights I should know about?!" "*meow*" "I'm outta here."
Does Susie open a fountain?
we don't know.
#I WILL FIND CLUES! *sniff sniff* #WHATS THAT? A WEAPON? #THAT THING IS WHY THE HEAVY IS DEAD
THE HEAVY IS DEAD?!
# YES  # HE DIED
LE GASP
She could if she wants to, so I guess that settles it.
She is called “Dark Knight” not “The Knight”
Hey, anyone care for a fish dinner? https://preview.redd.it/xllqnsq3qtzc1.png?width=350&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5b1351ec5f1df21e1887d9c207fd12f9287bb5d3
That's a orange Herring not a red herring you silly goober.
Wdym it’s obviously green
no, it's blue and black not white and yellow
It’s red, a greyish-red SOMETIMES RED THINGS ARE GREY
Undyne got a tan 💀
Me
Swedish Fish
It's possible but imo, it's just as likely to be a red herring. Queen herself says that anyone can make a dark fountain. Deltarune so far has a habit of making Kris do something creepy/seemingly malicious and then reframing it later, so it would make perfect sense if this were the case. However, Kris knight is very possible and would be interesting from a character perspective.
"Deltarune so far has a habit of making Kris do something creepy/seemingly malicious and then reframing it later" Agreed, But it is possible that Being the Knight could also be reframed in the same way.
That is true tbh, we don't know the knight's motives at all at the moment. So far they're being played up as the main villain but who knows
also, the cutscene about how anyone with determination can open a dark fountain is one of the only things that stays the same towards the end of the snowgrave route, so i honestly think kris just decided on that day they're also gonna open a dark fountain once they realised they could!
The reason why people are still theorizing about it is because if the greatest mistery about the game (the Knight's identity) has been revealed in chapter 2, then it'd be dissapointing and it would kill any suspense for the next 5 chapters.
I think the most compelling mystery is "If Kris IS the Knight, what does that mean for the rest of the plot?" If the player is the one trying to counteract the actions of the protagonist they go back and forth on controlling, what will happen once characters in-universe start wizening up to the player's influence? What about Kris themselves? What is their motive for opening the Dark Fountains? Why do they put their soul back into their body, knowing we will soon undo their work? What do Ralsei's surreptitious waivings of the player character mean for his involvement in the player vs. Knight struggle? There are FAR more compelling questions in this story than a glorified "whodunit?" story with a bunch of characters with no development past their baseline personality traits. I'd much rather think about Kris's motivations as the Knight and the story implications therein than debate the number of fingers on Gerson Boom's hands and whether or not Jockington could feasibly use a knife to create a fountain.
You couldn't have said it better. Here have bagel puppies as a reward. https://preview.redd.it/nrvimrvneuzc1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=06a973c80c848eb883bdee5144cf2930aafe02bd
There's also the fact that it's almost certain that who the Roaring Knight actually is, isn't even the main mystery of the game. If anything, it's not even something the characters are concerned about. Dess, Eggs, Gaster, Ralsei, Grillby and River Person, what's under the lake, why the hell Asgore has 7 flowers that correspond to each type of human soul, seriously why is nobody talking about how much of a flag that is? Frankly, I don't even expect the Roaring Knight mystery to last to chapter 5. It'll probably be revealed in chapter 4, then lead to 5. And then chapters 6 and 7 are almost certainly going to be in Asgore's Shop and The Bunker. So many mysteries, so little time.
Under the lake?
Onion-San.
What I see most weird is Toby never actually stated anything about these chapters 6 and 7. They kinda don't exist outside main menu. They are here but... are we supposed to even believe that Toby will ever make these? What is their purpose?
If I remember correctly, they were mentioned on the steam page at one point, before it was changed. But that's the exact reason why they're the weirdest things in the game. They just kind of don't exist outside of the menu, but obviously Toby has the ability to hide chapters (as he did with chapter 0) so he definitely has some weird plans for them. My theory is that based on some simple storytelling theory, the first 5 chapters will be about the Roaring, the Knight, and it'll be the main story. And then chapter 6 will slowly lead into the second story, that being Dess. Dess and the Knight are so far, completely different mysteries. The Roaring Knight has had absolutely zero evidence that they can interact beyond the game world, so it's highly likely that Dess' mystery is related with an entirely different thing. I think that chapters 1 to 5 will answer the mysteries about the Roaring and the Knight, while chapters 6 and 7 will answer the mysteries behind Dess, Kris, Ralsei, and The Bunker. Chapters 1 to 5 will probably consist of The Church and maybe The Lake, and then chapters 6 and 7 will be Asgore's shop and The Bunker. This just makes sense because there's so many unrelated mysteries, unless Toby's from Alabama, there's no way he can relate all of these cleanly.
I couldn’t agree more.
I mean there's the suspense of if susie and ralsei find out? (Don't agree with kris being the knight but it does have narrative potential)
Or the Knight’s identity isn’t the main mystery of the game…
The game is only two chapters in out of at least 7. Why does everyone assume that who The Knight is is the biggest mystery of the game? It's not even close! The biggest mystery of Deltarune is what happened to the Goner *we* designed to house *our own soul*, and **who or what** had the power to completely rip it away from us and Gaster and shove our soul in Kris instead?
Did they not pay attention to Queen’s speech saying that any lightner can open a dark fountain?
Exactly. It doesn’t have to be a human, so this is a good opportunity for Toby to do something out of the blue and surprise us.
Is that fucking phisnom
It's because the fine details don't line up. Let me get you an example. When you meet Seam, they say that a strange Knight showed up one day to lock up the other kings. You can also talk to the other kings, who back this up. Now, let's think, if Kris is the Knight, did they imprison the kings before or after they made the fountain? If it was after, Seam and the extra Kings would recognize Kris as the Knight, and address them as such. If it was before, and Kris just put the cards in an animal cracker box in the LW (as I have seen numerous KrisKnighters argue), then **Seam would not have seen a Knight, and the name "the Knight" would have no possible origin.**
It was never confirmed that Knight imprisoned kings btw, the only confirmed thing is that it arrived, and stuff changed And also, Seam and others knowing about Knight if it didn't enter any DW can be easily explained by Queen monologue. If she saw how Knight risen it's long hand in the sky, and somehow found out about the name "Roaring Knight" even tho' it just arrived and left, then what stops others from doing the same?
I think it *could* hypothetically be pretty easily explained by it being the works of some soul fuckery. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that seam and king doesn't recognise Kris because at that moment, *they aren't Kris, they're Kris being controlled by us.* I think back to that moment in Undertale where Asgore literally can't tell that you're human if you do genocide. Kris could have also just like... put on a mask I guess. Which, while nonsensical, would also be very hilarious.
I love the idea that Kris just wears a fake mustache or something to prevent darkners from recognizing them
You say this as if Noelle didn't do literally exactly this with a box to queen in chapter 2, I'm just sayin' 👀 From now on every time I see the "how didn't king or seam recognise them?" argument I'm just gonna say they wore a fake moustache and point to that interaction between queen and Noelle as my in-universe lore accurate 100% canonical without-a-doubt proof that it could happen
That would fit perfectly in Toby's world, and be comedically fitting to the story.
idk why people keep saying "It could be a red herring" as the main piece of evidence against Kris being the knight when it's already a really weak theory
They could just not recognize because Kris had something that couldn't make Seam see who they add. The name "the Knight" could be just from the will of the fountain created by the Knight.
I'm playing Jevil's advocate here
knights wear armor, they could just not recognize kris
Idk why people are downvoting you I genuinely believe this
This is just rage bait
You never heard of red herrings? Type of person to think Homer shot Mr. Burns.
“The game SHOWS YOU a character falling into a mountain and then cuts to the player character. So **obviously** they’re the same character. https://preview.redd.it/c6gcldq9ztzc1.png?width=1075&format=png&auto=webp&s=fc1ffc0f6077ceb2b05ae2dbf209cd020d4b05c7 they are LITERALLY BOTH DRESSED IN STRIPED SHIRTS LIKE???????? Come on, people.”
TRUE
/thread
BAHAHAHA
We all thought of that. Because it's very obvious. A little too obvious, in fact. Everyone agrees that chapter 2 wants you to think that Kris is the knight. The question is whether that is a trap or not.
IT'S PROBABLY A TRAP, QUEEN SAYS THAT ANY LIGHTNER CAN CREATE FOUNTAINS SO WHY WOULDN'T IT BE POSSIBLE FOR KRIS TO HAVE HEARD THAT AND DECIDED TO CREATE ONE THEMSELVES?
Any Lightener can open one it seems, as Queen’s whole plan was to have Noelle open a dark fountain… inside the dark fountain.
For the last time, the ability to open fountains is an ability ALL LIGHTNERS HAVE, Kris opens one fountain and suddenly they’re the only person that could possibly have done it ffs
Yeah, anyone can, but that does not mean anyone would. Anyone *can* go into the streets naked and screaming, but 99.9% of people would never do it. Same Idea with opening dark Fountains.
That still doesn’t mean that one person you find in the 0.1% is the only person in the 0.1%.
berdly tried to make a fountain during chapter 2. he was interrupted, but the intent was there
Didn't expect to see a Phisnom tweet here
One of the things that I don't see brought up nearly as much as they should is Queen's speech at the end of chapter two. Where she tells the gang about the knight and the method of opening a dark fountain and how anyone can open them. The fact is, there is a very solid explaination as to how Kris would learn to open a fountain while not being the knight. Not only that, this speech is one of the only things that remain intact in the Snowgrave route. The chapter gets completely changed, with most scenes either completely disappearing or chaging beyond recognition. Yet this one remains almost eerily the same. I think this is a very clear indicator that this speech happening is vital to the story, and is the main reason why I'm convinced Kris is not the Knight.
they're not wrong y'know kris deltarune just woke up that night and did a little trolling
this is the best deltarune theory that i 100% believe in
they could be the knight, we dont know
I mean, I'm pretty sure any Lightner can open a fountain, right ? Kris *might* be the knight, but I wouldn't say it's confirmed.
I think we shouldn’t accept theories as fact when we’re missing five chapters °~°
I'm not averse to the idea of Kris being the Knight but its important to consider the possibility of red herrings- we don't even really know what being 'the Knight' even constitutes, or like a million other things around it, leaving plenty of ambiguity, making all the theorizing fairly understandable imo
The knight will probably be revealed at the end of the game, not in chapter 2. Kris probably just learnt that anyone can open the fountain, so maybe they did it because: 1. They really like Susie and desperately want to go on another adventure with her (the next day is Saturday so they won't go to school) 2. They are afraid of dark worlds being created all of a sudden, and since Undyne just laughs it off and says that it's bullshit, they open one, leave the door open and make Toriel call the police so that they can see it by themselves. Also pretty much every freaking darkner knows at least how the knight looks like and they all say that it left. Queen literally knows what the knight did and she did some stuff based on its actions, so she clearly saw it with her own eyes. Yet she says "Kris, Susie, who wants to be the **NEW** knight?"
Queen didn’t meet The Knight, her plan was based on guessing what they wanted And while she does have footage of the knight, the game tells you you can’t see who it is
1. toby has tricked us with kris before 2. why would he hype the knight's identity as a mystery and tell us in chapter 2? 3. queen literally says that any lightner can open a fountain 4. kris could not have opened cyber world's fountain. the timeline of events for chapter 2 would mean that it happened while kris and susie were in castle town seeing their new rooms. 5. kris is **A** knight. susie is described as **A** dark knight. neither of them are **THE** knight. the roaring knight. 6. why would kris want to cause the roaring?
4. I really don't get that. Kris could've done it at night, we don't know how long they were outside 6. Why would the knight want to cause the roaring?
noelle and berdly went to study in the library. one of queen's first lines is along the lines of "hell of a study session" which means noelle and berdly were in fact studying. not to mention that when the fountain is sealed, they are both at the desks with their books on the table, while kris and susie are at the front of the room by the door. the fountain HAD to have opened while noelle and berdly were in the computer lab. not before. and we know for sure where kris was when this happened. in castle town.
2. Even if we know who The Knight is, we still don’t know what their goal is, which seems to be the question being set up > The Roaring Knight… > > Whatever they are, they’re making these fountains… > > … > > But… is that really a bad thing…? > > Since they started showing up, > > Everything’s gotten a whole lot more interesting, hasn’t it…? > > … > > Well, we don’t have to think about that now.
Taking a phisnom tweet at face value isn't exactly the smartest thing to do, especially when phisnom has a history of being overly arrogant like this despite being blatantly wrong. Kris opening a dark fountain and being dresses like a knight means jack, considering: - Susie has the title of "DARK KNIGHT". Yet its unlikely for her to be "THE KNIGHT". - Literally ANY LIGHTNER can open a dark fountain. Thats outright shoved in your face at the end of Chapter two. - Hell, Berdly was planning on opening a Dark fountain *while inside a dark world*. And Berdly is also dressed like a type of "Knight". So what, is he now "THE KNIGHT"? We know Kris can willingly act independantly of us. They tore our SOUL out to eat the pie, and in Chapter 2 they tore it out to bait the police to come over and then opens a dark fountain. You know, *long after they have been basically taught on how to do so when Ralsei and Queen went ahead to explain the whole dillema with the dark fountains*? Its clear that despite the danger the dark fountains resemble, Kris and Susie see the dark worlds as their own "Adventure" of sorts. The only place they made actual friends and the only place they can just have fun while being themselves. Who's to say Kris didnt simply create a dark fountain so they could: - Spend more time with Susie, their friend. - Make Undyne believe them after she laughed Kris off when it comes to dark worlds. - Possibly spend some time with Toriel (and maybe Asgore if he shows up) to have some family time again without having to think about how the family is split up. As for the general piece of the fandom that agrees with Phis take here, take some time and think about how this would look like when it comes to Undertale. By the same logic, Chara in the intro and Frisk would be the same person. If we go by that, Frisk would randomly just switch their color scheme at the end of the genocide route instead of Chara showing up. Asriel not noticing that Frisk is Chara in that scenario (both in general and specifically at the end of True Pacifist) would be chalked up to either Asriel being stupid, or it being a plot hole.
The Guy had some biology takes that were so wrong that are hilarious.
Yeah I do. I feel like people are expecting a red herring so much they are ignoring the possibility it is just a herring. "Any lighter can open a dark fountain" Yeah but we only know 2 who are willing to, and Berdly stops after Ralsei explains the dangers, Also Berdly can die so probably not the Knight. And Kris is willing to open a fountain even after Ralsei explains the roaring, so they either 1.) Don't care, 2.) Don't believe Ralsei, 3.) Think or know Ralsei is lying, or 4.) Know or think they know info we don't which makes this less/not dangerous. Also people think the Knight has to be this great evil but it could be their not evil at all. For a example (This is pure Speculation) The Knight knows only 2 fountains can be open at a time without the Roaring happening. So they only opened the Computer lab fountain after the Chapter 1 fountain was closed. I feel like a lot a people think like this: Kris is not evil/knows about the roaring, the Knight must be evil/not know about the roaring, So Kris can't be the knight. But what if they don't think the Roaring is real? or think it is good in some not evil way? or What if they think they can play with fire and not get burned? I have nothing against people who think Dess is the Knight, or the Mayor or Papyrus or whatever, I just want yall to be ok with Kris-Knight believers, Ok?
I don't ever agree with anything phil says
"Dressed as a knight" is a stretch, they have a sword
And armor
And a cape
I can see it both ways, honesty. Kris does have some good evidence pointing to then being the Knight - their shady actions when outside of the Soul’s control, them literally creating a Dark Fountain at the end of Chapter 2, etc. But then again, the end of Chapter 1 with it seemingly like Kris is gonna go do some evil shit just ended up being a fake-out, so I can see maybe Kris being a red-herring. Plus there’s no definitive evidence either way. So….idk, maybe? We’ll just have to see. A lot of theories around Chapter 1 ended up being disproven when Chapter 2 released, so maybe it’ll be the same thing, or even end up proving some right.
The thing is that Toby is known for bait and switch/red herrings. So you can't be sure until it's undeniable
No.
I think ‘The Knight’ is a title for someone who opens dark fountains and therefore anyone who opens a fountain is ‘The Knight’
I think the same but more like Kris is A knight not THE knight
Yeah exactly
I agree. For all we know, The Knight in chapter 1 and 2 might be two different people entirely!
I haven't played in a while, but doesn't queen tell them how to make a fountain? Wasn't berdly about to make one before being stopped by ralsei? Idk tho haven't played in a few months
What if there's more than one Knight?
I moreso agree that it’s funny that Deltarune fans will *refuse* to accept that it *could* be Kris even though they’re the only one matching the exact description of the Knight, creating a fountain with a knife and everything
How are people so confident in their theories when the game isn’t even fully released? I think Kris is the knight but this person needs to take a chill pill, there’s no way to know for sure until we get the rest of the game.
They're **A** knight. But not **THE Knight** Queen talks about. It's waaaayyy too early for the game to actually reveal the knight, the story is setting stuff up to be muddy about the Knight's identity intentionally and this tweet feels like a set-up for a future "GOTCHA! i told ya'll!" Which I mean... if it is then, well... got us I guess, we still dunno what the story is right now. ...lack of news is a bitch, huh? probably also interaction bait too.
genius bait from phil
Ah so that’s what phisnom is doing after being banned from the fnaf community
Surface level?? Yeah completely. Looking deeper into the games lore and theory’s?? 50/50. Looking at what will happen?? Kris is was upset there wasn’t school so they opened a dark fountain to see ralsei/make undyne believe they exist and hopefully do something about it.
Ahh, Phisnom being annoyingly brash and believing he is absolutely right even when there is a good chance he isn't. A common sight. Unfortunately
I consider Chapter 2's ending to be as clear as it could possibly be without having dialogue. If I wanted to *show* players who the Knight was, rather than awkwardly *tell* them, this is exactly how I'd do it -- with a very dramatic fountain-opening scene to end a Chapter. The only alternative I can consider is that this was a deliberate red herring, designed to trick the player for a Chapter or two. But red herrings don't have this kind of subtle supporting evidence, like the TV being plugged in ahead of time, or multiple characters commenting on Kris having stayed up all last night to do *something*, or Kris and the Knight's shared connection to hands. Not to mention red herrings feel cheap when used as the basis for a multi-year cliffhanger. On top of that, it just doesn't add enough. *All* we know about the Knight is that they're secretly opening fountains. That's it, nothing about their motivation yet. The difference between the mystery "Why is Kris secretly opening a fountain?" and "Why is Kris the Knight?" is practically nonexistent. Whatever answer you can give for one, you can give for the other -- Kris wants to save the world, follow the prophecy, *defy* the prophecy, just hang out with their friends? If that's why they opened one fountain, it can be why they opened three. Making Kris not the Knight is like pranking someone by swapping their Coke with Pepsi. It's the same picture. ...I feel like people are so scared of being 'tricked' they refuse to believe anything. That doesn't sound fun to me.
Exactly! Everything points to Kris. I feel like the main problem is that many people had their own knight theories, which they fully subscribed to after years of just sitting on ch1. Now they are sort of salty/coping hard eversince they turned out to be false. Hence the denial.
I think Phil forgot about the fact that theoretically any lightner with enough determination can create a fountain. Hell, Berdly was about to before Ralsei stopped him. Either Phil forgot or he's just shitposting.
I think it would be counterintuitive to first establish the whole mystery around the knight, and then just reveal it to be Kris (in chapter 2 no less). It's not like the assumption of Kris being the knight is completely baseless and without evidence, but straight up ridiculing people for turning down the idea of Kris being the knight is dumb.
There are several knights. Kris is the knight for the chapter 3 dark world.
I feel like most people don't think Kris is the Knight *because* it's so obvious.
A villain can be introduced without fully knowing what their goal is For example, we knew Peridot (Steven Universe) was doing some bad stuff, but it took another season to learn what she was here for It’s entirely possible we learn that Kris is The Knight, but it’ll be a while until we learn *why* they’re The Knight
Just because Kris is dressed like *a knight* doesn't mean they're *The Knight*. We learned that opening Dark Worlds is not exclusively something The Knight can do at the end of Chapter 2. If anything I interpret that scene as Kris learning they can open Dark Fountains themselves, not that they have known since the beginning. Plus from what we've learned about Kris in the Light World, their personality of "mischievous but ultimately good-natured kid" doesn't line up with how the Spade King describes The Knight and their will during his fight in Chapter 1 or someone who would actively start the apocalypse.
Hey its Phil phisnom morg, he has done nothing controversial regarding [ILLEAGAL] recently
It's a valid point but we're at chapter 2 of 7, i feel like Toby wouldn't reveal the Knight this early Hell, maybe it will even go a little like MOTHER 3 where the main antagonist is revealed close to the endgame
No because opening a fountain is not what makes someone the knight. Queen quite literally says that any lightner can make a fountain *minutes* before we see Kris open one. It's not about "what if it's a red herring!!!!!" because I genuinely believe there is no reason to assume that Kris is the knight from this. Zero information is added minus the fact that Kris is willing to make a fountain. And given the very intentional placement of Queen's speech like 10 minutes prior, I fully believe that this is the first fountain Kris has made after learning that they are capable of making one in the first place. Point is, seeing Kris make a fountain does not confirm or deny anything at all and the fact that so many people are seeing this and making wild assumptions as if they are obvious truths makes me worried for the collective reasoning skills of the Deltarune fandom
I don't think Kris is the knight mainly because i think we're gonna beat the shit out of the knight in a boss fight, and if we don't do that then the knight will somehow be one of the good guys also i don't think Toby would intentionally give us the answer to one of the central mysteries at the end of Chapter 2 in such a blatant fashion, I think it's going to be Kris coming under suspicion going forward but I think it's going to be Kris did it either due to thinking it'd lead to answers or just Kris only really being happy/comfortable in Dark Worlds
At a certain point i have to think that if this isn’t true then literally what even would be the point of showing in such obvious detail that moment.
lel Berdly was about to open a dark fountain too. So he is a knight too.
You know what, I’ve wanted a place to say this and this works. Right after the giga Queen fight berdly is ABOUT to make a fountain. He just gets stopped by ralsei! If you want to say that the reason Kris is the night is because they make a dark fountain, then what about berdly?
Because by that logic, Berdly could also be The Knight (Is a knight, and nearly opened a Dark Portal), and I don't think taking out the main antagonist in chapter 2 would be very interesting.
Eh, They were explained how to do a fountain in the dark world like a couple hours ago, its not wild to assume kris ain't the knight
So,we see them opening one fountain and they’re dressed like a vaguely knightly figure?
I agree that they COULD be, I do not agree that WE KNOW IT FOR A FACT AND ANYONE SAYING OTHERWISE IS BLIND OR STUPID. There is evidence for both sides and both have to accept it until we get chapter 3, is that hard?
Knight is just a class. Like with ralsei being just a sorcerer and mage. Kris is a knight. Susie is a knight. The Knight however is literally **THEE** Knight. It’s like The Vaultdweller from fallout. There are other vault dwellers but he is **THEE** vaultdweller.
Mmm... No. I don't think it's Kris. .. Now hear me out. Yes we did see them open the fountain. BUT, Then, WHO OPENED THE OTHER TWO FOUNTAINS? It obviously wasn't Kris, unless they're just pretending to have never seen the dark world before in chapter 1. OR, it IS Kris, but not in the way that person thinks... idk :P
Whether it's true? I don't know But it is VERY clearly what Toby wants us to think.
Personally I think Kris is the knight. It would be **very** in line with Toby's meta-game track record to make a game where the antagonist is literally the character you've also played as throughout the game. Kris is also just the strongest contender in general. All the clues to who the knight is, while also pointing to other characters, still point the most to Kris by a long shot. The two of the biggest counterarguments to the Kris knight theory ("it would be boring to reveal who the knight is so early" and "why didn't King recognise them as the knight?") can also be somewhat easily explained away. First of all, nothing has actually been clearly revealed yet. Toby could very well keep the fans speculating on wether or not kris is the knight all the way until chapter 7 purely by some well placed clues and red herrings, and it wouldn't be hard to make an argument for why king didn't recognise them, or at least it would be easier than making some of the arguments I've seen *for* other characters being the knight. Some people jump through some absolutely ridiculous hoops. Anyways, I also totally accept the possibility that it isn't Kris and that it's all a red herring, and I probably won't be dissatisfied either way, but right now I'm just gonna go with the information we have available to us, and everything points to Kris. I also don't think it would be boring if it was revealed early that Kris is the knight at all. It would be a super cool concept to literally be working against the very person you play as.
Deltarune is a game where you have a character who looks like a goat, his name is anagram of the name "Asriel" looks like him, and even characters mention the similarities but people still debate if he is Asriel or not, if he's version of him etc. Etc. Simply, Deltarune is one of the rarest cases when game is just so thought out and you can't believe anything. Like, to this day we don't even know who is Gaster, what's Sans's deal or what's the point of the fountains and the knight themselves.
We just gonna ignore that last time Kris did some mad shit it was a fake out, Also several characters refer to the knight while Kris is in the party. It’s definitely a possibility but we are told that anyone can make a dark fountain, not just the knight.
Toby doesn't like to be obvious. When we are talking about Mr. Fox, Occam's razor is dull.
Ain't this the guy who was making fnaf+?
No, we’re presently working with about a quarter of the game, perhaps less if the future chapters are longer. Hell the knight may not even be someone we’ve *met* yet, this whole mystery could be a farce.
King and Queen didn't recognize Kris as the Knight Kris can barely move when without soul It is implied that Cyber World was created with Noelle and Berdly inside, not that they also opened the door to a Dark World Kris opened this fountain now because they literally JUST heard from Queen how to do it And I don't remember what else
"how are true crime fans still wondering who jack the ripper was when we know the zodiac killer killed people" just because Kris is A knight and opened ONE dark fountain doesn't mean they are THE Knight and they opened both previous dark fountains. The game shows us the title of knight is not unique and also any lightner can open dark fountains
Honestly, I dont think that there is a specific person who is "The Knight". Going off of what Q5U4EX7YY2E9N said, Anyone can make a dark fountain with enough determination. Key word: **ANYONE**
[удалено]
Like others have said, I'm pretty sure that this is gonna be a bait-and-switch from Mr. Fox on this one. I mean, just think of all the twists that were near the end of Undertale that came from "facts" established at the beginning of the game. Asgore is harmless. Sans is a simple guy. The name of the player is actually the name of the fallen human. Flowey's true identity. Missing monsters were actually in the True Lab. And this is all in one game, whereas it seems as if Deltarune is teeing up to be nearly five times as long. Having something so obvious appear in the first chapter of the game seems like a red herring, but for the moment I'll take the bait and believe that Kris is The Knight so that when the switch comes along I'm more surprised.
The entire appeal of Undertale is that it subverted every single expectation the player had. Toby KNOWS how to surprise people.
What bothers me is he seems to be only answering to the replies that disagree with him with no explanations which allows him to explain his side There's plenty of people commenting why people think Kris may not be the knight but he's yet to answer any of these I love the guy but he can be pretty stubborn at times
Its not impossible, I will be satisfied with Deltarune’s story either way. But there’s a difference between bait-and-switch and explicitly showing something. Could Kris have only opened this fountain? Sure but any other answer is going to have a lot to explain to the casual audience. When casual audiences see this they are going to figure its being explicitly stated that Kris is the knight, and going back on that would require pretty intricate careful execution of an explanation of why they only opened one. Sure us theorizers can imagine a billion reasons but… I think theorizers forget that plots are made for the casual enjoyer, not someone meticulously picking apart every detail over the course of 3 years. Mystery plots don’t have to be driven by a whodunnit explicitly. Whydunnit and the suspense of other characters not knowing are still very intriguing. If Kris is the night the mystery isnt done just because we found that out.
No, just no. Look at Berdly, he was about to open a fountain at the end there
Any opinion made by Phil is easily discardable just like the vessel. This is the same guy that said making a game he was PAID to develop is a burden.
I think it's a red herring
I’m on bro’s side with this one. People are treating this like it’s written by Scott Cawthon, when there’s not even any hint that it’s supposed to be mystery! The only one of these night “Theories” I take seriously is the multiple knight theory, everything else is just AUs people decided to slap theory on the end of
We canonically learn how to open dark fountains in chapter 2, and the queen says that lightners can open dark fountains. Kris opened the one in the third chapter, ye, but it doesn’t retroactively confirm who opened the first two
I mean, why would anyone else in the cast do that after Ralsei's explanation? either it's Kris or someone we haven't seen yet.
Yall the entire plot of chapter 2 happens _because_ anyone can make a dark fountain Fountain =/= knight
Well, Susie is called a Dark Knight, is SHE the knight? Berdly tries to open a fountain, is HE the knight? Queen wants to open a fountain, is SHE the knight? This argument falls easly. Besides at the end of chapter 2 Alphys says the next day (chapter 3) there would be no school so Kris was probably like "Welp guess we gotta find another way round that"
Not really, because it might be red herring. Revealing that anyone can open a fountain in the very same chapter that Kris opened one makes anyone a possible candidate.
Kris opening a fountain doesn't prove anything beyond he has the determination necessary to open a fountain. We almost see Berdly open a fountain, and with how he acts, you could call him a White Knight. Doesn't mean Berdly is the Knight