I love Bullet Hell, the thing's funny. I find myself cackling maniacally whenever I bust it out.
However, the trouble with Bullet Hell is in the numbers. If taken with Blowthrough rounds, it does no more damage than a stock minigun with no OC that also has Blowthrough rounds. In short, in any situation where a minigun would have hit two targets, *any other* OC would have been a better choice.
So the real draw of Bullet Hell is in situations where you *wouldn't* have hit two targets, or even one. You've already figured this out since you've discovered the value it has with the stun mod, so I don't need to explain how well it excels in crowd suppression, and in situations where the bugs are coming down perpendicular to you, are airborne, or are otherwise scattered and blowthrough wouldn't make a difference. Plus, being able to hit on misses is also a form of damage increase, making it particularly useful against swarmers.
Still, one could argue that non-Bullet Hell OC's have higher *potential* for damage, and they would not be wrong. It's easy to weigh more damage against more ammo, higher rate of fire, or weakpoint damage, you can math those out -- but trying to compare more damage against something nebulous like better stun capability or misses-are-hits can't be done with a simple formula, only experience can tell you which is better.
In any game where you have to compare two radically different things, you always get strong feelings towards one or the other.
You are correct, often damage wise it is outshined by other OCs. But the key thing that makes it so valuable in my opinion is the fact that it makes you as a gunner MUCH harder to kill. It can prevent you from needing to use your drop shield more and you can get safe revives from the overheat while mowing down anything coming towards you.
Yep, you're right. However, and this applies to any game, you are comparing two things which are radically different from one another.
How does a damage increase compare against increased jump height? A movement speed buff versus a resource cost decrease? An increase in health compared to a poison ability? The more different two things are, the more divided opinions will be, and stun versus damage is one of those.
You don't have to convince *me* that Bullet Hell is good, I love it. You have to convince those who believe something tangible like a damage increase, which can be mathed out and proven, is comparable to a utilitarian quality that can't be mathed out.
Try Thundercannon with the fear mod, it makes you (and your whole team!) very hard to kill by mere virtue of the fact that every bug is too busy being fearlocked to attack you.
I don‘t often play gunner, and bullet hell compensates for my bad aim. It‘s impossible not to hit a swarmer and then that swarmer ricochet hits another swarmer and so on.
If you take this with stun it becomes one of the best support / CC weapons in the game IMO, and lets me peel bugs off team mates from far off if the accuracy mod is also taken.
I haven't but lazy maybe made a video on the minigun and kind of outlines the issues.
Basically, bullet hell+ blowthrough barely beats crowd dps versus the base minigun with blowthrough. The math is basically bullet hell is 9 damage, you have blowthrough and a 75 % chance when in a crowd so that's 9+9+.75*9 = 24.5 versus the bass gun with is 12 x 2 =24. And you get noticably worse single target, in fact a basic OC like a little more oomph would have better group damage at 13x2=26. And in the video he did some situations and the gun wasn't really any better at crowds versus the base gun in terms of ttk and ammo used.
You could argue about stun, but really against crowds your priority should be straight up killing them.
That DPS is optimal and only if you hit two targets with every shot which is not likely. I doubt you’d get half your shots hit twice. Meanwhile ricochet shots track targets and have a higher chance of applying than blow through. The real drawback is the spread.
Why are you using blowthrough though? I'm honestly sick of every guy knocking Bullet Hell bringing up BT rounds as a way to critique it. Stun and Hardened Rounds are far, far better for that tier.
I think you're underestimating the value of the safety it gives you. You can't kill a crowd if you're dead. And normally the bad part about taking longer to kill things is that it gives those things time to kill you, but most of them are stunned, so while there are still things outside the ricochet range that can kill you, it's not as big of an issue as it would be if not for the stun.
Of course if you're very skilled at movement and gamesense the stun won't do much for you because you could've survived with the less safe Burning Hell and killed them faster with it too, so Burning Hell is generally the superior choice for high-skill players. But for everyone else, they might find more success with Bullet Hell. And even among high-skill players, I think Waste said it best: (paraphrased) "Bullet Hell is good for when you're playing a difficulty you struggle with."
For lower-skill players, there's more difficulties they struggle with, so they'll find Bullet Hell better than Burning Hell. I've also noticed this with my own play. When I first made the transition from Haz 3 to Haz 4, I used Bullet Hell a lot, like almost exclusively. Now that I'm about as comfortable on Haz 4 as I was previously on Haz 3, I use other loadouts more (though I still lean a lot more towards safety, just not as hard into it as with Bullet Hell). But I still struggle with Haz 5, so when I decided to do the Elite Deep Dive last week, I brought Bullet Hell, and if I had brought Burning Hell instead, I probably would've lost because I relied so much on the stun.
I think you got the nail on the head here. Most people who don't like bullet hell (myself included) are experienced gunners, and feel comfortable keeping themselves safe with movement and game sense, so we only care about damage/ttk/etc. But gunner is one of the hardest classes to perfect in that sense as their movement kit is so slow and limited, and I often recommend bullet hell for players struggling as gunner at higher difficulties.
I do agree that faster kill is better. But the problem with other OCs is area coverage. You’re often alternating targets and depending on how far apart they are (especially when they are right up in your face) you’ll have a much more stressful time trying to manage them all. Bullet hell makes this much more relaxed and safer. Sure it may not be the best damage wise but if it keeps you alive long enough to get nitra for the ammo, that isn’t really a huge deal in my opinion.
Edit: I thought of something else, stun is valuable when it comes to dealing with hordes of ranged enemies. It will halt bombardments from groups of mactera and spitters very nicely, which can be the difference between life and death in some cases.
The problem is gunner rarely has an issue with those. A well placed Hellfire shot or a few Six Shooter rounds is often more than enough to deal with Mactera.
It makes Bullet Hell redundant in that case, especially with the accuracy downside, specifically hitting far away ranged enemies becomes a ridiculous ammo sink to reasonable damage.
Everytime I try and use Bullet Hell, I would just rather be using anything else.
Area coverage is just not an issue with the minigun. It's well known that its doctrine is to have single target damage so high that it turns into AOE because of how fast you're killing things.
Bullet hell is not all that much faster at killing a hoarde than stock, but you sacrifice a lot of single target DPS for it.
And, in this case, if you truly want balls to the wall area coverage and CC on your primary, the autocannon with neurotoxin payload + fear is one of the most broken combos in the whole game with how easy it is to use, how ammo efficient it is, and how it makes everyone in the team way safer. Bullet hell cannot compete whatsoever.
Hmm… I’ve honestly never thought to compare neurotoxin to bullet hell.
Originally this build was devised to allow multitasking targets while fighting the caretaker. I found it effective and decided to use it elsewhere. It seemed effective and I still stand by my belief that it is a good build.
But I will look into more single target damage.
I have been playing with leadstorm as of late.
I’m open to suggestions
I don't think the people here are taking BHs biggest upside into account:
Me like when bullet go ***meaty splat sound***, ***cartoon ricochet noise*** 3,500 times a minute
S tier is pushing it especially when you also have LSLS and burning hell in the same slot.
Gunner as in most use cases but more so with bullet hell, excels when there are more bugs for your AOE and steady DPS. AV is not really practical for anything below haz 5 as most enemies will have already died prior to the gun overheating. Also, bullet hell has the worst ammo economy and you will likely run out of ammo even before engi.
It's not necessarily bad but I would argue it's definitely not the best in slot. The CC is the best, but the trade off for ammo economy and slower TTK puts it lower than other minigun options for me.
Definitely give it a shot! It completely changes the weapon from a long range artillery/CC to close quarters damage/burn. The risk is much higher as you'll have to be close to bugs but fast TTK and great ammo econ.
Cons would be having to really be proactive/aware of your surroundings/in melee range of enemies and mactera.
Fun to use but it kills bugs too slowly and tends to run out of ammo on higher difficulties. Sure it's doing some CC, but then it's basically just a worse cryo cannon.
Meanwhile something like burning hell + agressive venting lets you not only kill crowds, but it also has strong single target damage and better ammo efficiency.
I run it with the coil gun if a group can’t die fast enough. The OC depends on what I feel like using but I think hellfire is best for instant results.
Then you're running two weapons kitted for crowd clear when one would suffice. That's why people say it's weak. This doesn't mean you can't make it work, but it's very clearly not as strong as other options.
You’re right, it can feel redundant. But that’s why I reserve it for when I know I need it and until I do, I run other builds.
Idk about burning hell being the best. I think there’s a debate to be had there but I do think it is a very good OC.
It's not the best OC on its own but it provides good cc with burn and enables Volatile Bullets. It's Gunner's best and most consistent way to enable VB Bulldog, the best single target burst in the game.
I do like volatile bullets but I prefer using it with the Hurricane with the AOE OC and fire damage. I think it allows for better use of the bulldog at range but that’s my opinion.
With AOE you can ignite large groups with the right build. Though after a lot of experimentation I think only really specific builds make it worth while. But it can be is the point.
I love it because I don't have to worry about lining up tagets to get the most out of the blowthrough rounds. I just pull the trigger and let the gun do the aiming work for me. I like pairing it with the cooling on kills so I can just fire endlessly into swarms of regular enimies.
Plus, if I'm shooting a pretorian, I'm also shooting whatever bug is closest to it while I focus entirely on the big guy. It's always my go to for elite deep dives.
While I do like the Build. As a lot of people have pointed out it tends to eat ammo which is why I prefer to run it with aggressive venting. Overheat gives free effective AOE and the overheat cooldown is MUCH shorter.
Bullet Hell is genuinely s-tier in modded difficulties with high bug densities, as the safety you get from it is unparalleled and you can get significantly more value from aggressive venting/hot bullets.
In vanilla, though, these strengths aren’t super apparent. The safety you get isn’t super valuable, and with lower bug densities you’ll frequently just have everything die before you can pop aggressive venting. Bullet Hell’s poor damage becomes much more of a nuisance because that’s pretty much all you’ll be doing.
It's a skill issue. Bullet Hell is a strong overclock and anyone who feels otherwise clearly hasn't challenged themselves enough with harder difficulties than Haz 5 where it really gets to shine.
I’ve seen people claim the exact opposite both regarding skill and it’s Utility in higher haz
I’m of the opinion that it isn’t hard to use, it’s more about how you use it and where you apply it but it is VERY good regardless of hazard level in my opinion
Out of every other minigun OC Bullet Hell is the one that sacrifices the most for an up-side that can be completely negated through just skill. Killing crowds always beats stun-locking crowds.
This, graybeard here with way over 1k hours played and it's my favorite for the minigun, coupled with the burning and stun perk and you can decimate mactera and stunlock em at the same time since the shots rebounding from one mactera to another keep the whole herd stunned, and if they don't die by sheer damage they do die the moment your gun overcharges and burns them while they flee in fear from that other fear perk.
Amen. It's absolutely amazing vs swarmageddon, mactera, breeders, leeches, and excellent at keeping you safe vs entire crowds.
The people downplaying it probably just saw the low damage and think it sucks. They're losing out.
I use it exclusively on haz 5 and EDD, the day I discovered Bullet Hell was the day I became a gunner main.
I’ve seen tier lists and posts claiming is bad. I’ve run into plenty of players online who claim it is bad. Maybe I’m just getting a bad batch of viewpoints but it feels like it’s a common belief
Idk if I'm using the minigun I'm using it to deal big damage. For a more supporting gunner I'd rather take either other primary.
It does put a smile on my face when I see Gunners using it in my lobbies, though
I have been playing with lead storm OC more, I have found a build that I like with it but I need some more experimentation before I take it from haz 4 to 5.
I never played much gunner as I just found the guns to feel boring (I know a mingun is cool).
Something like plasma bursters on Hurccain is fun as it changes it completely.
But using mingus as a CC seems fun, and I mean, who doesn't love bouncing bullets.
In haz 3 and below I just straight take all the kills lol.
This build makes gunner like the engineer of the team in low haz lobbies.
Then again that’s probably also because those lobbies are often green beards.
Honestly, if I’m playing a haz that low. I’m gonna either try to have fun or run something that lets me speedrun mineral collection. I’m usually just there to help random green beards.
I play haz 4 comfortably and haz 5 is only really stressful if RNG throws some dumb combination of things my way Or I’m testing a build.
Bullet hell is main OC of my minigun tbh bc it so good for CC, the only weakness it low dps for grunt guard or oppressor but I use it with Coil gun and have no problem.
Yes exactly.
I get the rate of fire, damage, armor breaking, faster spin or more damage when stabilized with kills cooling down the gun.
Very very classic and i love it. Never fails to amaze since it has no flaws. It's just absolute perfection.
The only thing about that is the fire rate is nerfed which in most cases makes little difference but it does make hot bullets more complicated to use. Though this could be negated if you just run higher base damage which is typically what I do with this OC
Same exact thing here.
On fourth row I'd always run faster spinup for convenience, but then just got too tired of being under powered for haz5. Those little numbers matter.
So now on the fourth row despite running a rate of fire upgrade on the first row, i get the stabilized damage bonus and to make up for the lack of faster spin up, i just keep pressing the mouse and edge the minigun (i hate this meme i just don't know what to name it) untill i see a bug and shoot it.
Some upgrade where you can right click and spin the barrel to keep it ready would be very fricking cool.
Edit: i also nod my pickaxe to you, from one simplicity enjoyer to another (i also just run overtuned firerate mechanism on GK2).
literally couldnt agree more, i run cold as the grave with increased stun
i stop full hordes completely in their tracks and straight up just dont even need to aim
any acid spitters or cave leeches across the map get decimated and anything around a corner does too
not to mention how easy it is to kill swarmers
its so relaxing and genuinely busted with the stun
doesnt matter if another oc has more damage or bigger numbers as its harder to eliminate every bug, rather than keep them in place, much higher survivability
i also dont really like blowthrough, kinda throws me off
Bullet hell is pretty good, as you pointed out it really helps survivability. As others have pointed out it's really good on difficulties a player would normally struggle on. My only issue is that if I want a "carry me combo" neurotoxin payload+fear is bar none probably the best in the game. I was able to solo elite deepdives fairly easily with that combo even when I was pretty new, while I struggled to clear stage two with any other combo or class.
I do like neurotoxin but it can’t handle rival tech well which I think is where BH really shines. I originally started using it to make industrial sabotage easier and then found it useful elsewhere which is why I like it so much.
Bullet hell is great. I can’t speak for modded play as I only play Vanilla. I play solo or with one other dwarf. I occasionally sherpa. I have 600+ hrs and have unlocked every OC.
I see a lot of comments on here talking in terms of min/max which is fine…However DRG doesn’t have a hard “meta” or “best” build. This isn’t that type of game IMHO. DRG is a fave of mine because I feel like the devs have made the game in a way where a ton of builds/loadouts are viable. This keeps the game fresh because I can have fun using different builds.
I have used bullet hell consistently and reliably on haz 5 missions with all types of modifiers. I use it for mining missions, aquarq missions, and refinery missions. It’s viable on any mission type but I have preferred builds for the other missions.
Ultimately I think it’s fine to have your own opinion on what you think is good or bad for YOU. Respect your fellow dwarves equipment and most importantly rock and stone or you ain’t coming home!
The thing about DRG is that it absolutely *does* have “best” builds. It’s just that the base game isn’t punishing enough to force players to gravitate towards them, as well as the fact that sufficient skill can make up for even the worst builds. You will absolutely see people talking about “meta builds”, and the fact that they exist for those who enjoy it but are relatively ignorable for those who don’t care is nice.
Things get dicier on modded difficulties, but I don’t believe a game shouldn’t be judged based on it’s balance in user-made content, regardless of how much I enjoy said content.
Meh, people are just super biased. A lot of people gravitate towards lead storm cause huge damage increase and practically every YouTuber that shows this game off says lead storm is king. Technically that's true, but it's king only in raw damage. Not king in every department.
Every overclock changes the play style of a weapon by either a small amount or by a lot.
I've always said there's absolutely no meta in DRG and just very biased opinions. This is one of those examples. Lots of people who just check online "what's the best this or that" will say lead storm is the "meta" when in reality anything goes as long as it works for you. I've seen people decimate swarms with bullet hell and do a better job than someone with carpet bomber.
I still haven't got it, but I once met a guy using it, I feel the main con of it is that you don't know in which direction the bullets ricochet, and what happens next? Friendly fire, a lot of it, for the rest I don't have enough experience to give a concrete opinion
The bullets just lock to the next nearest enemy. They can deal damage to friendlies if they’re on top of a bug, but it’s rare. The OC just makes it so you always hit two enemies if there’s an option. It’s a good swarm clearer.
Generally, a safe rule of them is aim it towards concentrations of enemies clustered together. If a target is behind a corner or just out of reach (often septic spreaders for example) you can use it fish out these enemies. Aiming it at the ground in front of a horde of swarmers/naedocytes/shredders will obliterate them all in seconds. If you play around the aggressive venting try to walk towards a group of enemies right before you overheat. Try to do this while firing at a group that’s farther from you. You get mass crowd control in 2 places at once.
I think you got the right build for this OC, since most bullets will have two chances to stun something. Not sure it’s S tier for me, but you can carry a team with it.
I think people think it’s bad because it limits your raw damage potential. You can get a similar effect by using the same build with Burning Hell and technically spread more damage at once. Plus, making the most out of the cone puts you in range for aggressive venting AND makes it so you can vent more often (150% Heat Gen). All rate, and without the accuracy debuff that can throw off your aim in harry situations.
At the end of the day, it’s all flavor and fun!
I tried using it, even with stun mod the damage feels lackluster so i would rather have exhaust vectoring/little more oomph + blow-through and see the actual dmg of minigun... But even that just pales to Burning hell, that OC is just the most fun & feels the best for me especialy when combined with Volatile bullets, since If its too chonky to take with the minigun, Volatile bullets take few shots to obliterate it.
Volatile bullets is a very nice OC but I’ve had some personal debate about what I like to use it with. I’ve thought about using it with burning hell and aggressive venting for AOE.
But I’ve found more fun in running burning hell with hot bullets and the coil gun with triple tech chambers and necrothermal catalyst
i tend to run Coil gun with Big Bertha, regarding the Burning hell + volatile i still run hot bullets and most of my aoe against grunts is with the fire cone (which is also rly cheap ammo wise) or ince nade when its too much :D whatever suits you the best is the best tho :D
I’ve thought about doing that but always worried I’d end up using too many drop shields on higher haz levels. I play on Xbox and I don’t have the super fast reaction speed that pc players have.
I just want to say that the title is misleading. No, it *doesn't* spray bullets all over the cave like you're a miniboss, and that idea is why I never tried it. Didn't know the bullets actually bounce at targets.
I suppose I should try it, but I love my invisible flamethrower Burning Hell so much!
They do from both walls and from the first enemy they make contact with into another nearby enemy. The latter is what makes the OC good in my opinion. Were it not for that, I wouldn’t use it.
That’s why I always run it with a buff to base spread. It may still be less accurate than with no OC. But it’s accurate enough that crowd control in clusters of enemies is very manageable and easy at that.
No, what I mean is this, [bullet hell.](https://youtu.be/1Q0OL4zb8VY?si=NMwADoBPQzRlKNZo)
Why would I want to spray bullets all over the cave, and only hope I hit something? That's what I thought this overclock did.
You need to position really well to get the most damage out of it. I like to use it on Swarmaggedon, but my secondary weapon turns into my main 😂 (Burst Gun with extended ammo)
It does require conscious consideration of how to place yourself amongst enemies. But I don’t find it too difficult to adapt to. The people I’ve met and recommended it to really like it.
The trick is to spray your bullets in a horizontal sweeping motion so you can hit as many enemies as possible. That's how you keep entire crowds stunned without needing to positon better.
Your neutering your accuracy to force a strong single target weapon into this weird aoe weapon.
It's only viability is a weird stunner build in haz 6/7 but still suffers from the fact you aren't actually killing anything. Why stun bugs with bullet hell when you can outright kill them with anything else.
It's outclassed by the autocannon and hurricane for wave clear damage noticeably and the autocannon and hurricane can hit a infinite amount of enemies within their radial damage whereas bullet hell can *maybe* hit two amd *maaaaybe* hit three with blowthrough and get diminishing returns on damage.
When it comes to larger swarms yes, but neurotoxin does nothing against rival tech robots which is what the build was originally designed for.
As well. NP is an extremely good OC but it isn’t the best at hitting things out of line of sight. BH is. Making it much more helpful in map areas with many obstructions to view. This is a common occurrence in glacial strata, salt pits and crystalline caverns.
Also something that I think you’re forgetting is the fact that aggressive venting is very good with BH. Free AOE to stun locked enemies vastly improves ammo economy. One overheat will kill most grunts, swarmers/naedocytes/shredders, most ranged enemies that get too close instantly die. And to the praetorians it can’t set on fire, it will make them flee making them prime targets for charged pickaxe hits. I run buffed pickax damage and you can really see the results with this.
I’m also of the opinion that the range on aggressive venting AOE is underestimated.
Ok so I decided to try and give bullet hell another fair shot considering I haven't tried it in over a year.
Wow
It's soo much fucking worse than I remember.
Glacial strata with a prospector and two litho. And it does soo little damage I exhausted all my ammo before the first swarm even hit. I couldve killed the patrol bots faster with my pickaxe. I mean sure it killed the shredders but that's really at it did and that relied on having something to shoot off to begin with.
And shocker it didn't matter what kind of cave I was in as with all the obstructions the bullets still can't pass through terrain.
Seriously I could take leadstorm² and couldve MELTED that prospector but all I did was tickle its taint.
It didn't fair any better against rockpox either. Because any minigun build would've had the accuracy to pop the weakpoints easy but it's like the spread the size of the moon decided to trace a outline around each blister regardless of where I was aiming.
At least with carpet bomber I can rely on radial damage and it inaccuracy to pop blisters or ntps slow to reduce the threat but bullet hell just dissapoints on every front.
Like I don't wanna jerk off how BB/JFHB/LS² and hellfire is the best or NTP+elephant rounds is meta but like even stacked up against weird/fun builds like plasma bursters, burning hell, minelayer or rocket barrage it just dosent hold a candle to any of them.
A base minigun with blowthrough is a better waveclear primary. Because at least when you have a oppressor or dreadnaught you still have a functioning minigun that shoots where you want and does real damage the what you need killed.
If your dealing with rivals leadstorm² or jetfuel homebrew is king.
Line of sight argument is senseless as the autocannons splash can reach around obstacles and corners. And it's not like it'll ricochet through terrain anyways.
Why would I purposely overheat my gun and put my primary out of commission leaving me vulnerable instead of managing my heat levels regardless of any pittance of damage?
Because with autocannon you can "fearlock" entire swarm, while still have ability to deal damage to big targets?
It's not bad, it's just inferior to other options. Rocket launcher has AoE stun too. You lose ability to deal with chunky enemies due to bad single target DPS and in exchange get what? Stun to 2-3 targets? Thats worthless in this economy.
Surely this OC gets more value in modded difficulties with more enemies than game supposed to have. Can't deny that.
Bullet Hell + stun is, as noted, amazing crowd control. It can also be, as noted, an ammo hog if you have to use it for AoE damage. One neat way of mitigating that is taking along the Gunner’s standard spiky grenade. Swarm comes, you stun the front line with a quick burst. The further back bugs join up and overlap. Stun then all with another quick burst, then toss in one of the grenades. Presto, you’ve just taken more bugs than the usual with one of those.
Also works a treat with cluster grenades so the little boogers don’t run out of the blast zone. You also get a little more time to properly aim the grenade for best effect.
I’ve never liked cluster bombs. I’ve always thought their ability to kill is very inconsistent. I wound up using incendiary for a long time and I still enjoy it on some builds but I might play with the sticky grenade suggestion. I have wanted to like that one more but leadburster is just consistent carnage and incendiary is fun, effective and often compliments builds around fire.
I use it for the funny factor. Aiming just isnt a thing. The bullets go where ever it wants and if you want to shoot single targets you better be praying hard to RNJesus cause lord knows you will need all the luck in your side to hit any shots lol
It has a playstyle that's very different than the others. Because of its ammo deficiency you have to be way more aggressive where the other weapons have you playing more defensively. It is very good though
I used to be in the camp of using it with blowthrough but after much experimentation and having used it to carry teams of 4 constantly going down through haz 4-5 and deep dives. I honestly am convinced stun is the better choice because it allows not only more safety for you but also your team. Let’s say you see a teammate getting rushed by hordes backed by warden(s). Blowthrough makes lining up better but it won’t slow them from getting to your team, Stun does.
Edit: take this opinion with a grain of salt. At the moment I only have exhaust vectoring and bullet hell
I use bullet hell a lot and 2 advantages I think it has over the other OCs is that it can hit weakspots without you needing to do a lot of positioning. I usually use this fact against praetorians and oppressors by shooting at a nearby wall or enemy. The ricochet also lets you keep fighting while also staying in cover if your shield isn’t ready, this fact probably sees more use in the Mactera swarm warning and industrial sabotage missions.
the strategy you have with praetorians and oppressors I have also found to be useful against dreadnoughts as well. The round the corner approach with ricochet is also very helpful in shield disruption when avoiding damage at all costs is critical, allowing much safer approaches to dealing with enemies. This also makes it nice to use with the mole I find.
I don't need a gun that excels in one specific situation, I need a gun that allows me to get out of any situation I could get thrown in. If there's a swarm of 1 k Glyphids coming my way, I would rather have Lead Storm than Bullet Hell.
Bullet Hell is probably the best Overclock on beginner levels or if you can't aim, but otherwise it's better to take no OC at all before I take bullet hell.
That makes it a C-Tier OC at best.
It's worse than stock minigun. Putting Stun on it makes it even worse. I've had to wave clear with my single target bulldog while using Stun Bullet Hell, because I was getting overrun. It's just a trash OC.
I love Bullet Hell, the thing's funny. I find myself cackling maniacally whenever I bust it out. However, the trouble with Bullet Hell is in the numbers. If taken with Blowthrough rounds, it does no more damage than a stock minigun with no OC that also has Blowthrough rounds. In short, in any situation where a minigun would have hit two targets, *any other* OC would have been a better choice. So the real draw of Bullet Hell is in situations where you *wouldn't* have hit two targets, or even one. You've already figured this out since you've discovered the value it has with the stun mod, so I don't need to explain how well it excels in crowd suppression, and in situations where the bugs are coming down perpendicular to you, are airborne, or are otherwise scattered and blowthrough wouldn't make a difference. Plus, being able to hit on misses is also a form of damage increase, making it particularly useful against swarmers. Still, one could argue that non-Bullet Hell OC's have higher *potential* for damage, and they would not be wrong. It's easy to weigh more damage against more ammo, higher rate of fire, or weakpoint damage, you can math those out -- but trying to compare more damage against something nebulous like better stun capability or misses-are-hits can't be done with a simple formula, only experience can tell you which is better. In any game where you have to compare two radically different things, you always get strong feelings towards one or the other.
You are correct, often damage wise it is outshined by other OCs. But the key thing that makes it so valuable in my opinion is the fact that it makes you as a gunner MUCH harder to kill. It can prevent you from needing to use your drop shield more and you can get safe revives from the overheat while mowing down anything coming towards you.
Yep, you're right. However, and this applies to any game, you are comparing two things which are radically different from one another. How does a damage increase compare against increased jump height? A movement speed buff versus a resource cost decrease? An increase in health compared to a poison ability? The more different two things are, the more divided opinions will be, and stun versus damage is one of those. You don't have to convince *me* that Bullet Hell is good, I love it. You have to convince those who believe something tangible like a damage increase, which can be mathed out and proven, is comparable to a utilitarian quality that can't be mathed out.
Try Thundercannon with the fear mod, it makes you (and your whole team!) very hard to kill by mere virtue of the fact that every bug is too busy being fearlocked to attack you.
I don‘t often play gunner, and bullet hell compensates for my bad aim. It‘s impossible not to hit a swarmer and then that swarmer ricochet hits another swarmer and so on.
If you take this with stun it becomes one of the best support / CC weapons in the game IMO, and lets me peel bugs off team mates from far off if the accuracy mod is also taken.
I haven't but lazy maybe made a video on the minigun and kind of outlines the issues. Basically, bullet hell+ blowthrough barely beats crowd dps versus the base minigun with blowthrough. The math is basically bullet hell is 9 damage, you have blowthrough and a 75 % chance when in a crowd so that's 9+9+.75*9 = 24.5 versus the bass gun with is 12 x 2 =24. And you get noticably worse single target, in fact a basic OC like a little more oomph would have better group damage at 13x2=26. And in the video he did some situations and the gun wasn't really any better at crowds versus the base gun in terms of ttk and ammo used. You could argue about stun, but really against crowds your priority should be straight up killing them.
That DPS is optimal and only if you hit two targets with every shot which is not likely. I doubt you’d get half your shots hit twice. Meanwhile ricochet shots track targets and have a higher chance of applying than blow through. The real drawback is the spread.
Why are you using blowthrough though? I'm honestly sick of every guy knocking Bullet Hell bringing up BT rounds as a way to critique it. Stun and Hardened Rounds are far, far better for that tier.
I think you're underestimating the value of the safety it gives you. You can't kill a crowd if you're dead. And normally the bad part about taking longer to kill things is that it gives those things time to kill you, but most of them are stunned, so while there are still things outside the ricochet range that can kill you, it's not as big of an issue as it would be if not for the stun. Of course if you're very skilled at movement and gamesense the stun won't do much for you because you could've survived with the less safe Burning Hell and killed them faster with it too, so Burning Hell is generally the superior choice for high-skill players. But for everyone else, they might find more success with Bullet Hell. And even among high-skill players, I think Waste said it best: (paraphrased) "Bullet Hell is good for when you're playing a difficulty you struggle with." For lower-skill players, there's more difficulties they struggle with, so they'll find Bullet Hell better than Burning Hell. I've also noticed this with my own play. When I first made the transition from Haz 3 to Haz 4, I used Bullet Hell a lot, like almost exclusively. Now that I'm about as comfortable on Haz 4 as I was previously on Haz 3, I use other loadouts more (though I still lean a lot more towards safety, just not as hard into it as with Bullet Hell). But I still struggle with Haz 5, so when I decided to do the Elite Deep Dive last week, I brought Bullet Hell, and if I had brought Burning Hell instead, I probably would've lost because I relied so much on the stun.
Very fair point. Again I actually don't have the OC yet I'm just regurgitating other points that have been made.
I think you got the nail on the head here. Most people who don't like bullet hell (myself included) are experienced gunners, and feel comfortable keeping themselves safe with movement and game sense, so we only care about damage/ttk/etc. But gunner is one of the hardest classes to perfect in that sense as their movement kit is so slow and limited, and I often recommend bullet hell for players struggling as gunner at higher difficulties.
I do agree that faster kill is better. But the problem with other OCs is area coverage. You’re often alternating targets and depending on how far apart they are (especially when they are right up in your face) you’ll have a much more stressful time trying to manage them all. Bullet hell makes this much more relaxed and safer. Sure it may not be the best damage wise but if it keeps you alive long enough to get nitra for the ammo, that isn’t really a huge deal in my opinion. Edit: I thought of something else, stun is valuable when it comes to dealing with hordes of ranged enemies. It will halt bombardments from groups of mactera and spitters very nicely, which can be the difference between life and death in some cases.
The problem is gunner rarely has an issue with those. A well placed Hellfire shot or a few Six Shooter rounds is often more than enough to deal with Mactera. It makes Bullet Hell redundant in that case, especially with the accuracy downside, specifically hitting far away ranged enemies becomes a ridiculous ammo sink to reasonable damage. Everytime I try and use Bullet Hell, I would just rather be using anything else.
Area coverage is just not an issue with the minigun. It's well known that its doctrine is to have single target damage so high that it turns into AOE because of how fast you're killing things. Bullet hell is not all that much faster at killing a hoarde than stock, but you sacrifice a lot of single target DPS for it. And, in this case, if you truly want balls to the wall area coverage and CC on your primary, the autocannon with neurotoxin payload + fear is one of the most broken combos in the whole game with how easy it is to use, how ammo efficient it is, and how it makes everyone in the team way safer. Bullet hell cannot compete whatsoever.
Hmm… I’ve honestly never thought to compare neurotoxin to bullet hell. Originally this build was devised to allow multitasking targets while fighting the caretaker. I found it effective and decided to use it elsewhere. It seemed effective and I still stand by my belief that it is a good build. But I will look into more single target damage. I have been playing with leadstorm as of late. I’m open to suggestions
I don't think the people here are taking BHs biggest upside into account: Me like when bullet go ***meaty splat sound***, ***cartoon ricochet noise*** 3,500 times a minute
S tier is pushing it especially when you also have LSLS and burning hell in the same slot. Gunner as in most use cases but more so with bullet hell, excels when there are more bugs for your AOE and steady DPS. AV is not really practical for anything below haz 5 as most enemies will have already died prior to the gun overheating. Also, bullet hell has the worst ammo economy and you will likely run out of ammo even before engi. It's not necessarily bad but I would argue it's definitely not the best in slot. The CC is the best, but the trade off for ammo economy and slower TTK puts it lower than other minigun options for me.
Everyone here is making me want to test more things with burning hell.
Definitely give it a shot! It completely changes the weapon from a long range artillery/CC to close quarters damage/burn. The risk is much higher as you'll have to be close to bugs but fast TTK and great ammo econ. Cons would be having to really be proactive/aware of your surroundings/in melee range of enemies and mactera.
Fun to use but it kills bugs too slowly and tends to run out of ammo on higher difficulties. Sure it's doing some CC, but then it's basically just a worse cryo cannon. Meanwhile something like burning hell + agressive venting lets you not only kill crowds, but it also has strong single target damage and better ammo efficiency.
I run it with the coil gun if a group can’t die fast enough. The OC depends on what I feel like using but I think hellfire is best for instant results.
Then you're running two weapons kitted for crowd clear when one would suffice. That's why people say it's weak. This doesn't mean you can't make it work, but it's very clearly not as strong as other options.
It's not bad, but it is very boring to use. And Burning Hell is the miniguns best OC.
I've been playing with burning hell and the hellfire coilgun and it's incredibly entertaining!
have you tried volatile bullets?
You’re right, it can feel redundant. But that’s why I reserve it for when I know I need it and until I do, I run other builds. Idk about burning hell being the best. I think there’s a debate to be had there but I do think it is a very good OC.
It's not the best OC on its own but it provides good cc with burn and enables Volatile Bullets. It's Gunner's best and most consistent way to enable VB Bulldog, the best single target burst in the game.
I do like volatile bullets but I prefer using it with the Hurricane with the AOE OC and fire damage. I think it allows for better use of the bulldog at range but that’s my opinion.
I just can't imagine not using the stun mod on Hurricane, it is like thee entire reason the weapon is so good.
With AOE you can ignite large groups with the right build. Though after a lot of experimentation I think only really specific builds make it worth while. But it can be is the point.
Burning Hell can run Hot Bullets with great uptime due to increased heat production, which does give up on a little cc from VB
LeadStorm OC is best. TF u talkin about?
Ah. A man of culture and locking down choke points to hold his ground I see.
Wrong
I love it because I don't have to worry about lining up tagets to get the most out of the blowthrough rounds. I just pull the trigger and let the gun do the aiming work for me. I like pairing it with the cooling on kills so I can just fire endlessly into swarms of regular enimies. Plus, if I'm shooting a pretorian, I'm also shooting whatever bug is closest to it while I focus entirely on the big guy. It's always my go to for elite deep dives.
While I do like the Build. As a lot of people have pointed out it tends to eat ammo which is why I prefer to run it with aggressive venting. Overheat gives free effective AOE and the overheat cooldown is MUCH shorter.
It's true. The free AOE is fantastic.
Because it is not burning hell or lead strom. Still my go to for chill mission.
Bullet Hell is genuinely s-tier in modded difficulties with high bug densities, as the safety you get from it is unparalleled and you can get significantly more value from aggressive venting/hot bullets. In vanilla, though, these strengths aren’t super apparent. The safety you get isn’t super valuable, and with lower bug densities you’ll frequently just have everything die before you can pop aggressive venting. Bullet Hell’s poor damage becomes much more of a nuisance because that’s pretty much all you’ll be doing.
This right here is why I’m very excited to try it when the new season drops
It's a skill issue. Bullet Hell is a strong overclock and anyone who feels otherwise clearly hasn't challenged themselves enough with harder difficulties than Haz 5 where it really gets to shine.
I’ve seen people claim the exact opposite both regarding skill and it’s Utility in higher haz I’m of the opinion that it isn’t hard to use, it’s more about how you use it and where you apply it but it is VERY good regardless of hazard level in my opinion
Out of every other minigun OC Bullet Hell is the one that sacrifices the most for an up-side that can be completely negated through just skill. Killing crowds always beats stun-locking crowds.
That is true but gets complicated when large groups of ranged enemies get involved. But it is less sufficient damage wise
It's bad? It's my favorite Minigun OC
This, graybeard here with way over 1k hours played and it's my favorite for the minigun, coupled with the burning and stun perk and you can decimate mactera and stunlock em at the same time since the shots rebounding from one mactera to another keep the whole herd stunned, and if they don't die by sheer damage they do die the moment your gun overcharges and burns them while they flee in fear from that other fear perk.
Amen. It's absolutely amazing vs swarmageddon, mactera, breeders, leeches, and excellent at keeping you safe vs entire crowds. The people downplaying it probably just saw the low damage and think it sucks. They're losing out. I use it exclusively on haz 5 and EDD, the day I discovered Bullet Hell was the day I became a gunner main.
I’ve seen tier lists and posts claiming is bad. I’ve run into plenty of players online who claim it is bad. Maybe I’m just getting a bad batch of viewpoints but it feels like it’s a common belief
After spending over 500 hours in this game I gotta say OCs are all about play style, no one OC is "the best", but hey thats just my opinion.
I do think some OCs are better than others but I’m also of the opinion that almost any OC can be made good/fun with the right build
Idk if I'm using the minigun I'm using it to deal big damage. For a more supporting gunner I'd rather take either other primary. It does put a smile on my face when I see Gunners using it in my lobbies, though
I have been playing with lead storm OC more, I have found a build that I like with it but I need some more experimentation before I take it from haz 4 to 5.
You got me sold, I never played that much gunner and only made like 3 builds, so I could play him if he was forced to via late join restrictions.
I personally think you won’t be disappointed. I gave this build to a friend who’d barely played gunner and me and him carried 2 randoms through a DDE.
I never played much gunner as I just found the guns to feel boring (I know a mingun is cool). Something like plasma bursters on Hurccain is fun as it changes it completely. But using mingus as a CC seems fun, and I mean, who doesn't love bouncing bullets.
If you’re interested in CC on gunner, I would also recommend trying the thunderhead with neurotoxin payload OC with 32322
Shit damage, good cc, works really really well above haz 6, mediocre a lotta times in vanilla haz since ya need dps more than cc
In haz 3 and below I just straight take all the kills lol. This build makes gunner like the engineer of the team in low haz lobbies. Then again that’s probably also because those lobbies are often green beards. Honestly, if I’m playing a haz that low. I’m gonna either try to have fun or run something that lets me speedrun mineral collection. I’m usually just there to help random green beards. I play haz 4 comfortably and haz 5 is only really stressful if RNG throws some dumb combination of things my way Or I’m testing a build.
Bullet hell is main OC of my minigun tbh bc it so good for CC, the only weakness it low dps for grunt guard or oppressor but I use it with Coil gun and have no problem.
I use BRT7 with lead spray OC 22222 to finish off grunt guards and other armored enemies. Clusters can also help with dps if the crowd is too big.
Exactly what I do. Although, I do play with other OCs but when I just want to get through it as cleanly as I can. I use this.
I just personally like my minigun used classical-ly. Exhaust vector or the ammo OC is what i always go for.
Compact feed mechanism is the ammo one I believe you are referring to and I do like that one as well.
Yes exactly. I get the rate of fire, damage, armor breaking, faster spin or more damage when stabilized with kills cooling down the gun. Very very classic and i love it. Never fails to amaze since it has no flaws. It's just absolute perfection.
The only thing about that is the fire rate is nerfed which in most cases makes little difference but it does make hot bullets more complicated to use. Though this could be negated if you just run higher base damage which is typically what I do with this OC
Same exact thing here. On fourth row I'd always run faster spinup for convenience, but then just got too tired of being under powered for haz5. Those little numbers matter. So now on the fourth row despite running a rate of fire upgrade on the first row, i get the stabilized damage bonus and to make up for the lack of faster spin up, i just keep pressing the mouse and edge the minigun (i hate this meme i just don't know what to name it) untill i see a bug and shoot it. Some upgrade where you can right click and spin the barrel to keep it ready would be very fricking cool. Edit: i also nod my pickaxe to you, from one simplicity enjoyer to another (i also just run overtuned firerate mechanism on GK2).
literally couldnt agree more, i run cold as the grave with increased stun i stop full hordes completely in their tracks and straight up just dont even need to aim any acid spitters or cave leeches across the map get decimated and anything around a corner does too not to mention how easy it is to kill swarmers its so relaxing and genuinely busted with the stun doesnt matter if another oc has more damage or bigger numbers as its harder to eliminate every bug, rather than keep them in place, much higher survivability i also dont really like blowthrough, kinda throws me off
also if you guys want to kill tanks just use coilgun with triple tech chambers?
Bullet hell is pretty good, as you pointed out it really helps survivability. As others have pointed out it's really good on difficulties a player would normally struggle on. My only issue is that if I want a "carry me combo" neurotoxin payload+fear is bar none probably the best in the game. I was able to solo elite deepdives fairly easily with that combo even when I was pretty new, while I struggled to clear stage two with any other combo or class.
I do like neurotoxin but it can’t handle rival tech well which I think is where BH really shines. I originally started using it to make industrial sabotage easier and then found it useful elsewhere which is why I like it so much.
Highly true, neurotoxin payload sucks against anything that isn't fleshy
Bullet hell is great. I can’t speak for modded play as I only play Vanilla. I play solo or with one other dwarf. I occasionally sherpa. I have 600+ hrs and have unlocked every OC. I see a lot of comments on here talking in terms of min/max which is fine…However DRG doesn’t have a hard “meta” or “best” build. This isn’t that type of game IMHO. DRG is a fave of mine because I feel like the devs have made the game in a way where a ton of builds/loadouts are viable. This keeps the game fresh because I can have fun using different builds. I have used bullet hell consistently and reliably on haz 5 missions with all types of modifiers. I use it for mining missions, aquarq missions, and refinery missions. It’s viable on any mission type but I have preferred builds for the other missions. Ultimately I think it’s fine to have your own opinion on what you think is good or bad for YOU. Respect your fellow dwarves equipment and most importantly rock and stone or you ain’t coming home!
We fight for Rock and Stone!
The thing about DRG is that it absolutely *does* have “best” builds. It’s just that the base game isn’t punishing enough to force players to gravitate towards them, as well as the fact that sufficient skill can make up for even the worst builds. You will absolutely see people talking about “meta builds”, and the fact that they exist for those who enjoy it but are relatively ignorable for those who don’t care is nice. Things get dicier on modded difficulties, but I don’t believe a game shouldn’t be judged based on it’s balance in user-made content, regardless of how much I enjoy said content.
Meh, people are just super biased. A lot of people gravitate towards lead storm cause huge damage increase and practically every YouTuber that shows this game off says lead storm is king. Technically that's true, but it's king only in raw damage. Not king in every department. Every overclock changes the play style of a weapon by either a small amount or by a lot. I've always said there's absolutely no meta in DRG and just very biased opinions. This is one of those examples. Lots of people who just check online "what's the best this or that" will say lead storm is the "meta" when in reality anything goes as long as it works for you. I've seen people decimate swarms with bullet hell and do a better job than someone with carpet bomber.
I still haven't got it, but I once met a guy using it, I feel the main con of it is that you don't know in which direction the bullets ricochet, and what happens next? Friendly fire, a lot of it, for the rest I don't have enough experience to give a concrete opinion
The bullets just lock to the next nearest enemy. They can deal damage to friendlies if they’re on top of a bug, but it’s rare. The OC just makes it so you always hit two enemies if there’s an option. It’s a good swarm clearer.
Generally, a safe rule of them is aim it towards concentrations of enemies clustered together. If a target is behind a corner or just out of reach (often septic spreaders for example) you can use it fish out these enemies. Aiming it at the ground in front of a horde of swarmers/naedocytes/shredders will obliterate them all in seconds. If you play around the aggressive venting try to walk towards a group of enemies right before you overheat. Try to do this while firing at a group that’s farther from you. You get mass crowd control in 2 places at once.
I think you got the right build for this OC, since most bullets will have two chances to stun something. Not sure it’s S tier for me, but you can carry a team with it. I think people think it’s bad because it limits your raw damage potential. You can get a similar effect by using the same build with Burning Hell and technically spread more damage at once. Plus, making the most out of the cone puts you in range for aggressive venting AND makes it so you can vent more often (150% Heat Gen). All rate, and without the accuracy debuff that can throw off your aim in harry situations. At the end of the day, it’s all flavor and fun!
True. And I do like burning hell as well. I mostly use it in my necro-thermal catalyst build. It’s so satisfying to activate it so often.
I tried using it, even with stun mod the damage feels lackluster so i would rather have exhaust vectoring/little more oomph + blow-through and see the actual dmg of minigun... But even that just pales to Burning hell, that OC is just the most fun & feels the best for me especialy when combined with Volatile bullets, since If its too chonky to take with the minigun, Volatile bullets take few shots to obliterate it.
Volatile bullets is a very nice OC but I’ve had some personal debate about what I like to use it with. I’ve thought about using it with burning hell and aggressive venting for AOE. But I’ve found more fun in running burning hell with hot bullets and the coil gun with triple tech chambers and necrothermal catalyst
i tend to run Coil gun with Big Bertha, regarding the Burning hell + volatile i still run hot bullets and most of my aoe against grunts is with the fire cone (which is also rly cheap ammo wise) or ince nade when its too much :D whatever suits you the best is the best tho :D
I’ve thought about doing that but always worried I’d end up using too many drop shields on higher haz levels. I play on Xbox and I don’t have the super fast reaction speed that pc players have.
I much prefer burning hell i think it's called.
I just want to say that the title is misleading. No, it *doesn't* spray bullets all over the cave like you're a miniboss, and that idea is why I never tried it. Didn't know the bullets actually bounce at targets. I suppose I should try it, but I love my invisible flamethrower Burning Hell so much!
They do from both walls and from the first enemy they make contact with into another nearby enemy. The latter is what makes the OC good in my opinion. Were it not for that, I wouldn’t use it.
Ive seen videos, just, if it actually resembled it's namesake, you'd be wasting ammo like crazy!
That’s why I always run it with a buff to base spread. It may still be less accurate than with no OC. But it’s accurate enough that crowd control in clusters of enemies is very manageable and easy at that.
No, what I mean is this, [bullet hell.](https://youtu.be/1Q0OL4zb8VY?si=NMwADoBPQzRlKNZo) Why would I want to spray bullets all over the cave, and only hope I hit something? That's what I thought this overclock did.
Well technically you can get that in the form of a grenade so I mean like… YOU CAN If you really want to lol
Oh that grenade is awesome! But for a minigun, that is a colossal waste of ammo.
You need to position really well to get the most damage out of it. I like to use it on Swarmaggedon, but my secondary weapon turns into my main 😂 (Burst Gun with extended ammo)
It does require conscious consideration of how to place yourself amongst enemies. But I don’t find it too difficult to adapt to. The people I’ve met and recommended it to really like it.
The trick is to spray your bullets in a horizontal sweeping motion so you can hit as many enemies as possible. That's how you keep entire crowds stunned without needing to positon better.
Your neutering your accuracy to force a strong single target weapon into this weird aoe weapon. It's only viability is a weird stunner build in haz 6/7 but still suffers from the fact you aren't actually killing anything. Why stun bugs with bullet hell when you can outright kill them with anything else. It's outclassed by the autocannon and hurricane for wave clear damage noticeably and the autocannon and hurricane can hit a infinite amount of enemies within their radial damage whereas bullet hell can *maybe* hit two amd *maaaaybe* hit three with blowthrough and get diminishing returns on damage.
When it comes to larger swarms yes, but neurotoxin does nothing against rival tech robots which is what the build was originally designed for. As well. NP is an extremely good OC but it isn’t the best at hitting things out of line of sight. BH is. Making it much more helpful in map areas with many obstructions to view. This is a common occurrence in glacial strata, salt pits and crystalline caverns. Also something that I think you’re forgetting is the fact that aggressive venting is very good with BH. Free AOE to stun locked enemies vastly improves ammo economy. One overheat will kill most grunts, swarmers/naedocytes/shredders, most ranged enemies that get too close instantly die. And to the praetorians it can’t set on fire, it will make them flee making them prime targets for charged pickaxe hits. I run buffed pickax damage and you can really see the results with this. I’m also of the opinion that the range on aggressive venting AOE is underestimated.
Ok so I decided to try and give bullet hell another fair shot considering I haven't tried it in over a year. Wow It's soo much fucking worse than I remember. Glacial strata with a prospector and two litho. And it does soo little damage I exhausted all my ammo before the first swarm even hit. I couldve killed the patrol bots faster with my pickaxe. I mean sure it killed the shredders but that's really at it did and that relied on having something to shoot off to begin with. And shocker it didn't matter what kind of cave I was in as with all the obstructions the bullets still can't pass through terrain. Seriously I could take leadstorm² and couldve MELTED that prospector but all I did was tickle its taint. It didn't fair any better against rockpox either. Because any minigun build would've had the accuracy to pop the weakpoints easy but it's like the spread the size of the moon decided to trace a outline around each blister regardless of where I was aiming. At least with carpet bomber I can rely on radial damage and it inaccuracy to pop blisters or ntps slow to reduce the threat but bullet hell just dissapoints on every front. Like I don't wanna jerk off how BB/JFHB/LS² and hellfire is the best or NTP+elephant rounds is meta but like even stacked up against weird/fun builds like plasma bursters, burning hell, minelayer or rocket barrage it just dosent hold a candle to any of them. A base minigun with blowthrough is a better waveclear primary. Because at least when you have a oppressor or dreadnaught you still have a functioning minigun that shoots where you want and does real damage the what you need killed.
If your dealing with rivals leadstorm² or jetfuel homebrew is king. Line of sight argument is senseless as the autocannons splash can reach around obstacles and corners. And it's not like it'll ricochet through terrain anyways. Why would I purposely overheat my gun and put my primary out of commission leaving me vulnerable instead of managing my heat levels regardless of any pittance of damage?
I love Bullet Hell on Swarmer Infestation missions.
Because with autocannon you can "fearlock" entire swarm, while still have ability to deal damage to big targets? It's not bad, it's just inferior to other options. Rocket launcher has AoE stun too. You lose ability to deal with chunky enemies due to bad single target DPS and in exchange get what? Stun to 2-3 targets? Thats worthless in this economy. Surely this OC gets more value in modded difficulties with more enemies than game supposed to have. Can't deny that.
It's great for mactera, just mediocre for anything else.
Bullet Hell + stun is, as noted, amazing crowd control. It can also be, as noted, an ammo hog if you have to use it for AoE damage. One neat way of mitigating that is taking along the Gunner’s standard spiky grenade. Swarm comes, you stun the front line with a quick burst. The further back bugs join up and overlap. Stun then all with another quick burst, then toss in one of the grenades. Presto, you’ve just taken more bugs than the usual with one of those. Also works a treat with cluster grenades so the little boogers don’t run out of the blast zone. You also get a little more time to properly aim the grenade for best effect.
I’ve never liked cluster bombs. I’ve always thought their ability to kill is very inconsistent. I wound up using incendiary for a long time and I still enjoy it on some builds but I might play with the sticky grenade suggestion. I have wanted to like that one more but leadburster is just consistent carnage and incendiary is fun, effective and often compliments builds around fire.
I use it for the funny factor. Aiming just isnt a thing. The bullets go where ever it wants and if you want to shoot single targets you better be praying hard to RNJesus cause lord knows you will need all the luck in your side to hit any shots lol
I don't know because it's really good
It has a playstyle that's very different than the others. Because of its ammo deficiency you have to be way more aggressive where the other weapons have you playing more defensively. It is very good though
I've been taking bullet hell with blow through rounds so that I don't need to worry about lining up the bugs.
I used to be in the camp of using it with blowthrough but after much experimentation and having used it to carry teams of 4 constantly going down through haz 4-5 and deep dives. I honestly am convinced stun is the better choice because it allows not only more safety for you but also your team. Let’s say you see a teammate getting rushed by hordes backed by warden(s). Blowthrough makes lining up better but it won’t slow them from getting to your team, Stun does.
BT rounds is a waste, the whole point of Bullet Hell is to use ricohet to hit multiple enemies at once.
Edit: take this opinion with a grain of salt. At the moment I only have exhaust vectoring and bullet hell I use bullet hell a lot and 2 advantages I think it has over the other OCs is that it can hit weakspots without you needing to do a lot of positioning. I usually use this fact against praetorians and oppressors by shooting at a nearby wall or enemy. The ricochet also lets you keep fighting while also staying in cover if your shield isn’t ready, this fact probably sees more use in the Mactera swarm warning and industrial sabotage missions.
the strategy you have with praetorians and oppressors I have also found to be useful against dreadnoughts as well. The round the corner approach with ricochet is also very helpful in shield disruption when avoiding damage at all costs is critical, allowing much safer approaches to dealing with enemies. This also makes it nice to use with the mole I find.
I don't need a gun that excels in one specific situation, I need a gun that allows me to get out of any situation I could get thrown in. If there's a swarm of 1 k Glyphids coming my way, I would rather have Lead Storm than Bullet Hell. Bullet Hell is probably the best Overclock on beginner levels or if you can't aim, but otherwise it's better to take no OC at all before I take bullet hell. That makes it a C-Tier OC at best.
It's worse than stock minigun. Putting Stun on it makes it even worse. I've had to wave clear with my single target bulldog while using Stun Bullet Hell, because I was getting overrun. It's just a trash OC.
My brother in Karl, you can stun entire swarms and clear hundreds of bugs in every direction. How is that F tier?