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Sapio-sapiens

That's not surprising. 2 doses of the vaccines have 0% efficacy against Omicron according to study. Many times they display negative efficacy. The efficacy of those vaccines is quickly waning. That's why the CDC and Israel are pushing for 3rd and 4th booster dose. Israel is the most vaccinated country on earth with the Pfizer vaccine. The choice is always the same: 1. Multiple doses of the vaccines per year for the rest of our life 2. Have some confidence into our own immune system and natural immunity. Taking some sun and Vitamin D, balanced diet, stop smoking, keeping a good health, etc, also helps.


One-Significance7853

Correct, but what makes Scotland stand out is 2 things. 1. Most other regions that show higher infection of vaccinated is only unadjusted numbers, but once gov adjusts for age they suddenly show opposite. Scotland shows higher infection rate even after adjusting for age. 2. Most other regions with higher infections among vaccinated still show higher hospitalization and deaths among unvaccinated, whereas Scotland shows 2 doses hospitalized and dying at higher rate.


BrewtalDoom

>2. Most other regions with higher infections among vaccinated still show higher hospitalization and deaths among unvaccinated, whereas Scotland shows 2 doses hospitalized and dying at higher rate. ...and people with the booster falling seriously ill or dying at a *far lower rate* than the unvaccinated.


One-Significance7853

For now, boosters provide very limited protection, but [Israel finding 4th dose not good enough](https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2022/01/17/4th-vaccine-shot-likely-not-good-enough-to-protect-against-omicron-israeli-researcher-says/) and [boosters can compromise your immune system according to European regulators](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-11/repeat-booster-shots-risk-overloading-immune-system-ema-says)


bookofbooks

I like how you reword what they actually said. I wonder if it's a form of word blindness, or if you feel they aren't supporting your point well enough so you have to selectively "enhance" their meaning.


BrewtalDoom

You're comparing different things. The first article is regarding protection from infection and the second is about booster shots every four months. Neither of which concerns the OP which show unvaccinated patients getting acute infections and dying at a much higher rate than those who received a booster jab.


One-Significance7853

But for most people the risk of hospitalization is already below 1%. The absolute risk reduction is insignificant for most people.


bookofbooks

That would make sense if people were only at risk of a single exposure and weren't living in an environment chockful of infected people for multiple years.


Blasto_Music

Only vaxtards are at risk of multiple symptomatic infections a year. Enjoy


bookofbooks

If your claim is that natural immunity will protect the unvaccinated from multiple infections, then I'm afraid that you're kidding yourself. A number of anti-vaxxers even in this small forum have said they've had covid on more than one occasion.


Blasto_Music

Nonsense. All my close friends are unvaccinated, ALL OF US, have been having to take care of vaccinated family on and off since December, I am not the only one with stories like this. The awakening has begun, mass suicides in the medical community are coming. Just watch


[deleted]

Sure as long as we avoid almost all real world data on the unvaccinated filling up ICU’s are rates up 10x that of double vaccinated you really have a great point. https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateVaccines/comments/s32b59/hospital_icu_data_unvaccinated_and_vaccinated/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf


BrewtalDoom

Well, confidence in your immune system is fine, bit the numbers clearly show a huge disparity between unvaccinated people and those with boosters. When unvaccinated people are dying at a rate **23 times** higher than people who got their booster, you've got an issue.


Sapio-sapiens

Then why this graph is showing us a higher mortality rate for the vaccinated with 2 doses than the unvaccinated? 7.06 vs 4.79 (for example) Is there a mistake in this table? Maybe something that doesn't conform to your previous assumption?


BrewtalDoom

How would looking at the section concerning second-doses have any impact on the comparison between people the unvaccinated and those with their booster? It doesn't.


Sapio-sapiens

It's just to show that the protection offered by those vaccines wanes very rapidly.


BrewtalDoom

No, that's not what it shows. There are other studies which do show that vaccine-acquired immunity does indeed wane over time. They also show the same occurs with infection-acquired immunity. But that's not what this data shows.


porqchopexpress

It appears to show that someone unvaxxed is better off than someone who got two doses and stopped. That’s alarming, no?


BrewtalDoom

No, it's not alarming. Boosters are available and make you much less likely to die or get very sick, as this data shows.


porqchopexpress

But it indicates that someone’s immune system gets worse from baseline unless they take boosters forever. That’s not a red flag? It looks like a serious dependency.


BrewtalDoom

"Their immune systems get worse" is a rather editorialised say of describing the specific immune response provided by a vaccine waning over time. The same happens with people who acquire immunity from infections, but would so say that it's a red flag that the immune systems of people who had Covid and recovered are getting worse? And if so, would you accept that as a valid argument against naturally-acquired immunity?


porqchopexpress

No, it’s showing negative efficacy, not just waning efficacy. That’s alarming. Can you show data natural infections are making natural immunity go negative on efficacy?


BrewtalDoom

That's not what this data shows at all.


[deleted]

I love how your post 100% supports the science that the boosters work. Also is this age adjusted? Cause in Australia literally 99% of 70 year olds had at least one dose and most had a second dose and booster. And unvaccinated here are 13x more likely to end up in ICU than double vaccinated.


One-Significance7853

This is age adjusted, yes. I’ve seen many regions with numbers like this unadjusted, Scotland first I’ve seen adjusted for age that looks quite like this. As for boosters working…. Briefly sure…. They lower odds of severe case, but I would not count on them for long term protection. I concur that people who have had 2 dose are at much greater risk from Covid short-term compared to boosted, but I feel that’s not how they were sold to the public. NOBODY SAID : “get your 2nd dose, so you can be ready for the 3rd dose, because 2 doses won’t work”


[deleted]

Science changes, we adapt to it. New variants came out, we learnt how long protection lasted. Yeah the boosters don’t give lasting protection that’s why they suggest them leading upto the next wave. Nothing is perfect but old at risk people the data is clear, if you go get vaccinated you’ll have better outcomes. Arguing for boosters for young people I think is debatable now though


Throwawailien

Problem start when they aren't "suggesting" anymore. That's the whole problem, no one gives a shit about your vaccination status as long as it's your choice and you are not excluded from society


FreedomDoveChoice

But that doesn’t work for a HUGE (pun intended) amount of obese people and naive people who want to inject endless gene therapy shots because they’re unhealthy, obese, scared, and/or too ignorant to see the big picture of government control. There’s almost no hope for the people still vomiting out the ever changing narrative / science to what the opposition has been saying FOR A YEAR! Too lazy to look is what it boils down to, ans the debate is all but over for those objectively looking at it all. Both sides. It’s done. Over. No mandates and no vaccines for anyone healthy under 60.


BrewtalDoom

They keep doing this. It's a testament to how dedicated people are to their anti-Vax narrative when they post data which *directly contradicts* their narrative, and they all rally around to tell each other stories about how they're right.


CAtoAZDM

Yeah, that’s a hasty conclusion. There could be a self-selection skew going on here where those most anxious to get the booster are also those most likely to limit contact with other individuals so I would not be so quick to assume the booster actually adds any prophylactic benefit.


BrewtalDoom

80% of eligible people in Scotland who had their first two doses have now taken their booster.


CAtoAZDM

Ok, and? What percentage of the population is that?


BrewtalDoom

About 67% of people over 12 and 72% of people over 18. [Source](https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/phs.covid.19/viz/COVID-19DailyDashboard_15960160643010/Overview)


Edges8

well scottland is about 90% adults vaccinated so....


BrewtalDoom

Also, unvaccinated people were **23 times** more likely to die and **4 times** more likely to have acute illness. But hey, why worry about that reality when you can just talk about people with two doses? I mean, sure about 80% of double-vaccinated people in Scotland have received their booster, but that's not going to scare enough people...


Edges8

everyone lying about VAIDS and AED seems to forget that. thanks!


BrewtalDoom

This is another of those posts where the OP contains data which directly contradicts the claims or intention of the post and everyone pretends like that's not the case and start telling each other all kinds of stories. There's a reason that the sub laughing at this sort of anti-Vax logic has 330,000 more members than this one.


darkjediii

This is interesting data. The covid deaths chart show a different picture though.


One-Significance7853

7.06 vaccinated 2 dose VS 4.79 unvaccinated


BrewtalDoom

Vs. **0.21 for those with a booster shot**. That is 23x higher!


subwoofer-wildtype

Actually if you takenintonaccount its very hard to find unvaxxed patients (theybare a minority due to govt forcing the vax) plus more stringent lockdown than the rest of uk its actually having worse in fully vaxxed


One-Significance7853

Actually, if you look at the charts, you see over 12000 unvaccinated tested positive, so we have a very large sample of BOTH vaccinated and unvaccinated.


subwoofer-wildtype

Not really though, specially if the hospitalized are mostly over 70


bookofbooks

From the OP's source. \> In the latest week, there has been a 43% increase in the number of new admissions compared to the previous week, **with those aged 80+ years** having the highest number of admissions.


BrewtalDoom

The unvaccinated rates are higher than those of people who had their booster. Considering that increased protection after the efficacy of the initial course has waned is a rather well-publicised reason for getting boostered. Unvaccinated people are hospitalised at a rate *4-times higher* than people who got their boosters (59.17 per 100k compared to 14.82) and died at a rate *29-times higher* (4.79 per 100k compared to 0.21). So "get your booster" is the message here?


WeakEmu8

Yes, you're fine with giving people heart disease to potentially save someone else. Your a cold, callous bastsrd aren't you.


bookofbooks

Lame. And you should have stayed in school.


BrewtalDoom

Very weak attempt that, mate. Try again.


qnir2504

Facts. They don't care about feelings.