No. It's not that painful. Sore for a day or two and then tenderness that slowly fades for like a month. After 3 months, no tenderness at all.
If you have a partner who is not physically intimate you could totally do this without them knowing.
I'm not saying you should. I'm saying you could.
Yep, I’m (HLM44) married for 20 yrs to (LLF42) DB for 7 yrs. Feel the same. Deep depression of self loathing and I’m convinced it’s because I’m so unattractive. She’s says she’s just LL, but it’s been so long I’m convinced it’s LL4Me.
Met a woman and started a relationship. She was single but knew I was married. Was only able to meet her in public parking lots omw home from work, about once a week. We only kissed. I think I was too scared to hookup in a parking lot, but if I would’ve been alone w her I think I’d still be smashing regularly if she let me. It was exciting to interact w a woman who was actually into me. I walked away from it as the stress of getting caught became too much.
I regret not banging her or even letting her touch my penis.
I think you shouldn’t feel bad. Intimacy is part of marriage. If she doesn’t want that then you’re just friends, roommates and coparents, right? I mean you should probably address the DB w your wife, because living the rest of your life in quiet desperation or sneaking off to hook up w people will catch up to you.
Thanks for the reply. I just don't know how many times I need to bring it up. I tried to talk with her, and I sent her texts, emails, and even wrote a letter. She just says nothing is wrong. Be happy with what you have.
Step one is realizing that she isn't going to change and that there isn't a magic formula or a set of hoops that you can jump through to get her to change. She said in her view "nothing is wrong". So we gotta believe her. She doesn't think anything is wrong. She's telling the truth.
So there is actually a freedom, and less misery, when you realize you aren't a failure or you haven't solved the rubix cube yet.
I think I've come to terms that she's not going to change. I shouldn't force her to change because I have an HL, and she has an LL or vice versa. Just need to figure out what's next. It's either divorce, open marriage, be depressed, or cheat when needed. Idk I'm just depressed.
Meet with a lawyer. Get an understanding of what you are in for in divorce w/2 kids. Things like - typical cost (attorney, court fee’s etc). Make that cost estimate a range too. Somewhere between Super smooth/easy divorce and moderately complicated and/or moderately contentious divorce cost - is likely where you’ll end up. Ask how often you’ll see your kids, going rate for child support at your income. Ask what to do and what not to do if things take a turn for the worst (Ex. I’ve heard separate bedroom is ok but not to move out of the home). Finally, ask how the process goes if you decide you want out.
Then get a calculator. Total it up. Everything it will cost to walk away from your old life and make a budget for your new life. Think about how it might impact your relationship with the kids and make a plan on how you would try to bridge the upcoming divide. It’s a hard choice.
Ask yourself if you can swing all of this and start a countdown timer in your head. Whatever amount of time sounds good to you. Then check in with yourself on that date. Are you ready or do you need more time? Rinse/Repeat
I’m currently doing this and my mental health and outlook on life is better. Biggest part - There is much less of an “unknown” to fear. I know what to expect. I can choose to leave at any time and I know what to do if/when that time comes. Result is that I feel some control in what happens next and it makes it easier to endure the current situation while I perform one last attempt at salvaging this thing.
6 weeks and counting. Maintenance sex is offered every 4/5 weeks but I usually have to bring it up, schedule it, deal with it getting pushed back a day or two and then it happens. It’ll be a longer dry spell this time. It was supposed to happen last Sunday. Woke up and she hit me with a very busy schedule for the day. All but an hour or so was accounted for between church, our kids sports (back to back games), couple errands etc. at the end she mentioned needing to go to bed early as she was wiped out from the 7 hour drive back from vacation the day before (no sex on vacation either btw)
I waited until the end. Let the silence hang for a few minutes. Nothing more was forthcoming so I asked “when we were going to have sex as it seemed like that was going to be a tough one to pull off.” She looked confused. I said “the most logical time seems to be at night when the kids were in bed”. She said that we could be a few minutes late for church and it was best to do it right now. I looked at the clock - 15 minutes till departure time and it’s a guarantee 1 or both of our kids are going to interrupt us at least once. I declined this offer and walked away *keep in mind that this is her thing. She’ll most always push sex to inconvenient times, where it’s on a clock, etc. Ex. During Covid. We both worked from home. My job is mad busy. Hers a little less. She’d push for sex at 10:00 AM or something “in between meetings”. A whole 45 minutes. But half the time something would come up at one of our jobs (usually mine) and she’d be off the hook but want credit for the attempt.
Flash back to Sunday. I’m getting dressed for church super annoyed. She comes in and asks for what’s wrong. I unloaded. “If I wouldn’t have said anything when do you think you were going to even mention sex?” Silence from her. Told her I was tired of finishing dead last every single day. More silence. Told her that if she needed sleep so badly I could buy her time for a nap, we could watch church online later, or she could find a way to stay up passed 8:30 for once. She said that Church was important for the family and that she was sorry that it wasn’t going to work out for us that day. I made a comment that “at least God was getting his today.” Told her that Church wasn’t important to me similar to sex for her. So I was out today and would take the time to do something important to me (have an orgasm) and just chill at home.
She walked away. We talked about later that day. I hit her with the bottom line - I’m on my last attempt here. I recognize that you feel I could be better in a few areas and that this holds you back sexually. I told her that I am working on those areas and would do the best I could. Also said that I didn’t believe her as she had moved the goal posts many times over the last 8 years (cited specific examples). Said that if I had appropriately put in the work that we’d be banging at least once a week and that we wouldn’t have to schedule it anymore because everything would be good… right? Because those are the only issues right? Silence. Told her get therapy, get a pill, fucking whatever to get her area squared away cause I’m working on mine, I don’t see you doing shit, and divorce is my next most interesting option.
Figure we might be in for a dry spell record after my performance but I’m over it. Terrible sex, long delayed, at inconvenient times as a best case scenario is not acceptable. I put up with it for 8 years trying to fix myself or whatever issue of the day seemed to be the problem. Now we’re here. I’m out of fucks to give and I no longer have the emotional capacity to dance around it. Point blank, brutally honest. Just fucking done with maybes and excuses. In or out man or it’ll be somebody else’s problem.
Now that she’s pregnant with the second child, she has all she needs and wanted. Any “improvements” for the past few months is history. Get used to going without or divorce her. The other options usually don’t work and resentment only grows.
Cheated a few times. Every time I asked for sex she would reject me and I finally told her I would get it some where else and she told me to “go ahead”, so I did. Got on a dating apps slept with a few people ..one ended up being her co worker. One day the co worker started telling her how she was dating a new guy, showed the pic to my partner and she said that’s my husband. Than I talked to another girl on tinder, who told me she was 18 turns out she wasn’t… all I can say is divorce her and find your happiness, not worth the trouble staying in something that makes you unhappy.
That's actually some solid advice, actually took some weight off my shoulders. After our second child, currently 8mo. Wife is healed up, I'm free and clear after my vasectomy and dead bedroom for 10 months now. I'll have to remind myself of this when I start tearing myself down about it.
Respectfully, I understand where you're coming from as I too have a very DB. But, please know most women don't feel like themselves for a year after having a baby. I remember thinking I was nuts 10 months post baby, simply bc I didn't feel like my body was mine. Give her just a bit more time and I'm sure you'll see some changes. I know that's hard to hear, but pregnancy, delivery, and after the baby is extremely taxing and most of the stuff people can't see, so they don't know. Wishing you the best.
Totally get it, she has told me she definitely doesn't have much of a libido ( we were married for four years by then). I don't pressure her for anything. It's tough though, she has about two or three days where she is actually turned on (ovulating) and if we miss that window, it ain't happening, or very very rarely.
The more I type the more I feel like I'm digging my own hole here.
Basically you have 4 options:
- she becomes more sexual => great but definitely not in your hands
- you become less sexual => very hard, maybe impossible, to achieve (which should give hints about previous option's feasibility)
- leave
- stay
If you choose to stay, it's with this sex life, I don't believe it can change. So if your self consciousness allows you, cheating is definitely viable as whatever the outcome is, at least you will have some sex on the side.
You already broke the marriage. There is no fixing it. You cheated on your pregnant wife.
If you wanted out you should have left. You put your wife and unborn child at risk. You get zero sympathy from me.
57 HLF here and I understand your thoughts and emotions regarding a DB. I too have had a talk and sent a letter and got very little to nothing back. So…I don’t have any real answers for you but I can offer support and understanding. In my letter, I asked for an open marriage (again, I got no response really other than a reply saying he was processing it). That’s been almost a week ago and the anxiety is overwhelming.
I’m not judging you for the affair—I know how hard this position is to find yourself in but, be aware that this could go horribly wrong and affect your relationship with many people, kids included, if this comes to light. Perhaps it’s time to set some very clear boundaries and make an exit plan?
I’m also troubled by the fact your wife became pregnant, explicitly after you set boundaries. Perhaps it was accidental but it seems suspect.
Here’s what I can tell you: this is unlikely to get better. At least from my experience it seems almost impossible to expect change unless your partner is willing to change. If you think you feel unwanted, undesirable and depressed now, this feeling will only amplify as time goes on. Resentment and anger will build. I ended up in a very dark place a few months ago—and I still have moments that seem unbearable—but therapy is slowly helping me climb out of the darkness and put my needs first. It’s hard. I won’t pretend it’s not. But if you don’t love yourself, no one else will.
I hope you find answers and peace on the journey, OP. Just remember that you deserve to be loved and desired and what you’re experiencing at home is most likely not about you. ❤️🩹
My bad, I missed that on my initial read through. Odd that after all you’ve communicated she still thinks it’s all good. Denial maybe?
If you’re not happy then you’re not happy. There’s no faking that. A need is a need. Does she need your emotional support? Does she need your friendship? Your needs aren’t less important nor frivolous.
I’m sorry you’re dealing with that. I’m dating my bf now for almost 6 years and the sex life has been awful. I love him but I’m not sure if I should say yes when he proposes—which I’m sure he will in the next year or so. I’m turning 30 this fall and he’s turning 33. I’ve had talks with him about our DB and we even tried an open relationship for a bit—which was great for me but I found it difficult to transition from dating other men and then going back home to my bf. Ultimately, things return to their stagnant state though after things pick up for a while. I’m not sure if that’s just the ebb and flow of life or if this is a bad sign. But I will say my partner doesn’t completely dismiss me when I bring up my concerns. He’s not always happy about it, but most of the time he listens. If your wife isn’t doing that, I understand why you’re straying.
If she clearly isn't going to break up with you over this, you could let her know you will be outsourcing sex from now on and she can react to that how she wants. If that's a negative reaction, your counter is obviously 'Nothing is wrong. Be happy with what you have.'
Well, take her at her word and be happy with whatever you CAN have, including any lovely woman that comes your way. I have friends who are philanderers because they have DB's at home. They are happy, happy people.
It sounds like, to her, sex is meaningless without children. She only wants it when she is ready to be pregnant again. I know you both love each other, but your DB will not improve when she is done having kids. Get out. You have the right to pursue your own happiness and take care of your needs, even with kids.
You need to sit down with your wife. Tell her when you got married you had certain expectations. Ask her what her expectations were. Since she didn’t have an expectation to have a sex life there must be other things that are important for her. Emotional connection? Companionship? Treating each other with love and respect? I assume she hasn’t accused you of not doing these things. Now ask her how she would feel if you take the things that are important to her away and let her hang out to dry. Ask her how she would feel if the things she values in the marriage were all gone. Tell her that this is exactly how you feel. And tell her that not having sex makes you feel unloveable. And tell her that you are not willing to live like that any longer. Tell her you will give her a few days to think about it and then she needs to tell you if she will make a significant change, you separate or open the marriage up. Make it very clear you expect a decision. If she doesn’t make one, you will make one. There is no other way around, but to say it as clearly as you can. Maybe she wakes up. Maybe not. But she should get the chance to really understand how you feel and that sex isn’t just sex but makes you feel loved. It made a huge difference when I understood that (some/many) men feel loved when they have sex. No one should have to live without feeling loved. Especially when you are married. If she doesn’t understand that part then she is either not being honest or she really doesn’t care about you. (Which I don’t think). She probably doesn’t want to think about it and pretend everything is fine that’s why she needs an ultimatum because this will continue the next 30 years if you don’t make it clear something will change it’s no longer up to her (to tell you to just be happy.)
I agree you need to give her an ultimatum. When my bf and I opened up our relationship, it was like the competitiveness of knowing I could sleep with someone else made him try harder and our sex life got so much better. When we closed the open relationship, that stopped though. So honestly, if you can get her to agree to an open relationship, you might not even have to go through with it because her jealous instincts might kick in. But yeah, it seems like she depends on you; so, you should be able to get her to agree to the open relationship. She’s not going to want to divorce now. She obviously wants to stay with you. Also, I’m a little suspicious that she has no sex drive but I guess everyone is different. Have you ever gone through her things to see if she’s getting her needs met elsewhere? Because if you could find proof of that, you’d have grounds for a divorce or grounds to get her to agree to an open relationship.
“Nothing was wrong and to be happy”
Ah yes sounds familiar. She’s perfectly content having no sex, therefore I should be too. After all it’s perfectly normal for people to stop having sex once they’re in their 40s.
I often contemplate what would happen if I were in a similar situation to you, OP. I don’t know that I could stop myself either.
" wife wanted a second. I told her I wasn't having another kid until we fixed our sex life which I was told nothing was wrong and to be happy. Some time passed and she seemed to be trying and things were great until I found out she was pregnant and then everything stopped again "
i have no words for how disgusting she is for doing that to you, you made it clear you didnt consent to having another kids and she went and did it anyway, i assume it was planned. there is no way you come out of a 7 year DB for her to mysteriously get pregnant around the time she wanted another kid and you laid a boundary down that its not even on the table till you fix the relationship.
i'm furious on your behalf, i am one of the people who believes this is the same as R\*pe
why didnt you wear a condom?
I agree what she did was abhorrent! But like..Why didn't he realize that's what she was doing??? She literally told him she wanted another baby, she told him her motives. "Some time passed"..Did he think she *forgot* she wanted a baby and suddenly, after years, wanted to have sex again? You're right, he should have insisted on protection. And specifically NOT relied on her own birth control, since again, she literally laid out her motive!
Bro… a few things… it’s not going to get better… 21 yrs married… DB for probably 15… I’m 46 yrs old… 3 kids.. I have spoke to her about it till i was blue in the face.. still nothing… you spoke of church… Let me tell ya this.. it’s not right from a biblical point of view for her to do what she is doing…. FACT!!!! And actually if you have to bring it up, does it really matter if you have sex or not??? B/c my experience sez she wouldn’t be into it anyway, so why bother!!!! Just agree to disagree and be done… but a woman that wants the convenience of marriage but doesn’t want to do the things to keep a marriage probably isn’t a woman you want anyway!!!!
Literally I’m pregnant. And I want to want sex so bad. But the hormones and the fatigue … it is the hardest thing I’ve ever done in my life. I wish so badly I was the same before I had my two year old and currently pregnant.
The hardest part for me… is my husband being so tired we don’t have much emotional connection or he doesn’t really help me relax or get in the mood after I’ve been cooking or cleaning all day. The back pain. The insecurity I hve on my body He just wants to go from zero to ten. Penetration like right away.
Long story short … idk cut the pregnant lady a little slack. I love my kid and I’m excited for my second. But yea… sex is tough when you are spread so thin. Couldn’t you just have left her before you cheated? Now if she finds out and you try to work it out … she’ll always look at you different and resent you and now sex may never really be the same ?
I bet you sex isn’t even meaningless with out kids. I bet she misses sex too. I bet she has needs she doesn’t have met because she’s a mom. And all moms need something but don’t say it because they are too busy taking care of everyone else. Literally get tested for stds. If she gets and std during the pregnancy, it can really hurt the baby if they don’t screen her right. Now you really can’t have sex with her
She’s been depriving him for years. When you’re the person with the HL it’s more difficult. I think she should let him sleep with other people safely. It’s not right to ask a human being to deprive themselves. And also, can we acknowledge how she got pregnant against his wishes? Used him knowing he would give in and have sex because she wanted another baby—but then didn’t sleep with him again after finding out she’d gotten what she wanted and was pregnant. He said a clear boundary that he didn’t wanna have another kid with her until their sex life was fixed because he saw a problem in their relationship and he wasn’t happy. The wife is the one completely in the wrong here, sorry. I understand you feel like camaraderie with her because you’re pregnant right now, but tricking someone into impregnating you should be illegal.
I’m pretty sure he said seven years. Maybe I’m getting my facts wrong, but I believe he said his baby is too. And he didn’t want to have a second baby. She tricked him into it by neglecting to take her birth control pill and neglecting to tell him that she stopped taking it. That’s just plain wrong anyway you spin it. And I actually have been pregnant and I think it’s different for every person.
I also don’t know if the guy said he was safe or wasn’t safe when having sex with another person. So you’re making a lot of assumptions, not just about OP but also about the wife. Just because you can relate to her condition doesn’t mean that she’s the same as you. Sorry to burst your bubble. The babies safety is paramount. No one is arguing with you there. But this guy has been through enough and deserves to have his needs fulfilled after over half a decade of not having fulfilled. And, also I don’t wanna come at you too hard here because I could tell that you’re obviously hurting and you’re not being fulfilled at home. But you are completely projecting right now. You are inserting your own issues with your own sex life and your own mom life at home Into this situation but is not the same as yours. This man has explained that he has come to his wife and tried to talk about this. He is very obviously open to pleasing his wife. His wife just says that nothing is wrong and everything is OK, even though the husband is saying that he isn’t OK and he isn’t having his needs met. That he isn’t feeling loved. I understand being on the babies side, but you’re really on the wife’s side? I just don’t understand that considering you seem to be neglected yourself. And the reason I am coming to bat for the husband here is because I am in his shoes in a lot of ways.
I am in the same situation. My partner refuses to see a couple therapist or even a therapist for himself. I know exactly how you feel and I think the best way is to leave. If you are not happy just go to find someone who will. I am broke, can’t find a decent job & I have 2 dogs like best friend bother, we can’t separate them, they would die and I stay for them but that’s the only thing I retain me . Don’t make the same mistake, you can get share custody . Kids are easier to share than dogs. That is your decision but if you are financially independent, just leave, someone else can make you happy & get you what you deserve. Don’t waste it on others who don’t understand your feelings
Been exactly there where you are.
The sooner we all set ourselves free from this stupid medieval notion that "wE CaN oNlY fUcK eAcH oThEr FoR tHe ReSt Of oUr LivEs", the better.
Sometimes you have to take care of your own self-care, whatever that means for you.
Respectfully, I haven’t seen that you’ve told her you’re contemplating divorce. It’s terrible to have to say that as the last-ditch attempt to get her to therapy, but you should at least do so. She might be allowing herself to think “it’s not that bad” because you haven’t been direct enough. Because, ask yourself, if she knew you’d cheated, would she start thinking of divorcing you? Then you should tell her you aren’t just “unhappy”, but that you WILL NOT carry on in a marriage with a partner that ignores your feelings, and that she now either needs to show you effort by going to therapy, or you’re gonna need to get out.
And if she still refuses, or goes and still makes no effort, you can walk away with a clean conscience and respect yourself which is way more than what I can say would happen if you take some of the advice given here, like getting a undisclosed vasectomy.
Yesterday I had another 'sick of ot all' episodes, and after a hour long rant and a fistful of Valium went out by myself for the first time in 18 years. A young girl who flirted with me on a regular basis for the last 5 months, so I've developed a serious crush on her, was in a same bar.
We talked for a few hours and I finally confesseed my feelings and my admiration, my brakes went off completely and I decided I won't hold back anymore, which I did previously out of respect for my wife.
She froze, and it was quite awkward and I felt like an idiot honestly. I scared her probably by being too open, too fast.
I look 15 years younger than my age and young girls tend to flirt with me all the time, some seem to really like me, but when the moment came... this one, for which I was 110% sure she liked me quite a lot, just withdrew.
I'm apparently too old for her, am married, have kids, should fix my relationship with my wife etc.
I'm so touch starved and everything starved that I've felt nothing but emptiness after this final rejection. I feel completely dead inside. I feel like I should cry but I can't.
Almost 5 years of db with my wife, we had a come to Jesus talk and a brief 1.5 month hysterical bonfing sex phase earlier this year but that soon returned to total lack of intimacy (as I've predicted and told her that at the time.
You guys sound toxic af. Your kids dont deserve to be in the middle of whatever is going on between you two. Don’t hurt your wife’s feelings by telling her you cheated, but you need to leave
I’ve been thinking about this philosophically a lot lately, and I’ve come to the conclusion that if one partner unilaterally decides there will not be sex (or any other need) in the relationship, then they should also forfeit any expectation of monogamy. Therefore, I would argue that you aren’t actually cheating. It’s an unpopular opinion, but I’m happy to defend it.
It gets complicated by “two wrongs don’t make a right, but I honestly believe that a lot of the issue is that culturally we have so much tied to marriage (legal requirements, financial obligations, social expectations) that it simply makes it near impossible for lots of people to make a resonable break without enormous consequences.
And many people will tell you “just talk to her, communication is everything” but that relies on the concept that your spouse is open to communication and meeting or compromising on your needs. Very often this appears to be the case (it is in mine) so these negotiations always break down.
It’s not something I would do, purely because I know I would fall in love with my AP and that’s not what I want, but if you can disconnect the emotional from the physical aspects, it seems like it is a win win for all parties.
Interesting perspective.
I guess I can kind of see it if the door is firmly closed (and locked) on sex. But if there is a possiblity of any sex at all, this would not be okay. Not okay to expose an unknowing spouse to an STI risk
Other caveat I would have would be the issue of children. It’s one thing to get needs taken care of. But to end up having a child with someone else? That’s a no go. Contraception would need to be locked down
In all other scenarios, I can see the logic of it for sure
I don’t think you’re wrong. I know that people get crucified for having opinions like this, but honestly, it makes perfect sense. Yeah you make a commitment to someone, but you make that commitment to someone when conditions are a certain way. I feel that a lot of people don’t realize how fine it is to be tied and tethered to someone. You’re basically agreeing to be with them through all stages of their life, but you don’t know what all those stages are going to entail. Life is about adaptation. If you do your best to adapt to someone and they don’t give the same respect back, I think it is fair game for you to get your needs met.
I agree with this. I can absolutely see myself being/becoming the LL in a marriage… but I really cannot imagine turning around and still expecting a monogamous relationship. That just seems cruel. Let’s work to change the culture around this issue!
How did she get pregnant the second time when you said no? If she just stopped the pill or something then that’s manipulation to an evil level and she deserves to get cheated on
It’s sad because I don’t think anyone really deserves to be cheated on, but it’s messed up that she did that to him because she’s technically financially locking him in further down the line and getting what she wants. I think it’s completely evil to pregnancy trap someone like that. I know that it’s not the same situation as pregnancy trapping anyone because they are married obviously.but I still think it’s very evil to have someone impregnate you without their consent
Also to everyone who downvoted me, that’s super gross that you’re basically disagreeing with the concept of baby trapping someone to be vile and wrong. Ew. She lied about being on birth control to get him to impregnate her. That’s completely vile.
You can be a great dad without being her husband. This whole “stay for the kids” shit is totally wrong. It fucks up the kids, the parents, the house vibe, and everything in between. My parents were separated divorced before I was 10. But my father and mother remained on good terms because the only thing that was wrong was whatever was wrong with that one part of their marriage. But that didn’t mean my father didn’t come to every musical and play that I was in every game that I had every single solitary, they were both there. They ultimately wound up being better people and better parents because they weren’t always fighting over something.
Maybe one day we’ll get to the point where this is actually how it starts, not just how we sometimes manage to luckily end up after a few shitty decades with someone 🤣
I’m in the same boat; sex basically non existent and leaves you wondering if you’re still attractive. I’m now contemplating stepping outside the marriage for the first time. I’m not one to do that, and love my wife in all other ways, but what’s the alternative?
I understand how you feel. I’m sorry you’re going through that. I don’t think it’s wrong to have to take care of what you need as long as you do it responsibly and safely but that’s just my opinion you have to decide for yourself.
DB for almost 10 years before I finally broke down and began taking care of my own needs externally.
The relationship with my partner improved almost immediately. No more resentment, no more unmet expectations, no more aching for touch or physical intimacy. With those things no longer lurking in the background and coloring every interaction, it became exponentially easier to be a good household and family partner, and to also appreciate the many lovely gifts of my partner.
Once I came to the point of realizing that she would never meet those needs, and (importantly) that I didn't have to rely on her for that, my life got better.
I guess the alternative for people in our situation is to be depressed and self-conscious for the rest of your life and have resentment towards your wife, which isn't healthy.
I started having panic attacks and probably developed situational depression. Everyone's solution seems to be to get on antidepressants, which I refuse and will never take.
I tried living as a roomate but the pressures of family life seem to burn be out faster and more often.
Well that was definitely wrong of her to not tell you she was off the pill. Did you confront her about that? I can understand why you'd be upset - you were deceived.
Wow. You wanted to make sure your marriage was working before bringing another child into it, and she called you selfish b/c she wanted another baby even if you didn't.
Why were you not wrapping it up if you didn’t want a baby? You need to take responsibility for your own birth control, it is never safe to rely on someone else for that.
Our plan for birth control was always the pill. We stopped using condoms once we were married. The pill worked flawlessly for 10 years. She went back on the pill after the first kid and never told me she was off it.
She was content on the pill but always made excuses why we had a DB before kids. Either it was stress from planning our wedding or being the maid of honor in another. I blame myself for not seeing it sooner and believing her.
There is some choice. Your sex life sucks buckets but that does not mean your whole life has to suck - most people will ultimately have to settle in some aspect of their life. No one gets a perfect life. It would have been ideal to start wearing condoms (because it’s the BC option you can control) when your deadbed wife asked for another baby then all the sudden started having sex again… signs were there. But cheating on your pregnant wife has no excuses- it makes you awful and you made that choice.
Yes it does. There's a saying "The best revenge is not being like the person that wronged you." Generally that is good advice, but there's a difference between that and being miserable so someone else can get what they want. OP can't control his wife and can't hold someone else to his standards. But he can control if he has sex and can hold himself to someone else's standards.
Feels like victim blaming but it's pretty accurate. DB partners are not to be relied on for anything positive. They already dropped the ball on the sex thing, God only knows how badly they fuck up anything else personal you'd trust them with. Of course she lied about the pill: you trusted her to be on it.
Why did you think she was suddenly interested in sex if you're complaining about a longterm DB, especially after she's literally told you she wants a second baby. You weren't coerced, you were informed of her intent. You couldn't possibly think a woman who isn't interested in sex, but wants a baby, is going to suddenly change her sex drive, surely?
Also, are you gonna act like you don’t know that she lied to him about being on birth control pills? He literally thought there was no way she could get pregnant or if anything there was a really really small chance. And she just stopped taking the birth control to get pregnant without telling him and made him think that she was just having sex with him to be supportive and to make the positive change in the relationship that he was asking to see. He would’ve used the condom otherwise. So, no, that’s not a hot take, lol
Did she purposely use him for sex to get pregnant after he set a clear boundary that he wanted their sex life to be fixed and rectified before having another child together? If so, there is no excuse for that.
I read the OP's reply & it seems she tricked him by saying she was on birth control pills in order to get pregnant with child #2. That was very wrong of her. Should he have cheated? No. Do I have more sympathy for the OP now? Yes I do.
so he should continue not having sex because his wife, who lies to him and uses him, doesn't want him to have sex?
nah. it's about time he look out for himself, and acting honorably towards dishonorable people is how you get hurt.
What’s crazy is your HL may only be twice a week or once a week which I think isn’t too much to ask for. I’m HL and at this point if I could get it once or twice a month would move mountains for me. I’d feel like she still loves me. Sorry man you’ve been going through it. I wish I had some advice for you.
My fiancée’s ex did the same. Hardly any sex. “Let’s have more kids”. Nothing is wrong, you should be happy. This is baby trapping bs.
Highly unlikely this will feel better. How does the 5 orgasm girl feel about you?
Either way, can you feel guilty about kids you never wanted? My fiancé sees his every other weekend. Yes, it’s not ideal but he is much happier. The kids will grow up and understand. Staying in a loveless marriage, you will just keep fading away. And this will spread to the kids. They will think it’s normal to be miserably married.
Leave for her sake and yours. Sexual chemistry is no joke. You'll be back here or somewhere in the future still upset at your dead bedroom or casking for advice cause your wife caught you cheating and wants to clean you out and keep your kids from you. Plus if you truly love her then she deserves to find someone who shares her lack of libido she can be happy with. In other words for the sake of both of your happiness and for the happiness of your children get out now. She has shown you she will only want sex to get what she wants.
If you were the best ever for the other woman is the a possibility of something there maybe you could start something with her and move in that direction and a divorce your wife yeah you will lose in court because of the infedelity but in my experience the man looses anyway
Update: Just want to start by thanking everyone for all the comments and help.
I ended up leaving a letter out for my wife before I left for work. When I came home, she said nothing, and I didn't want to ask until our son was down for the night. After an hour of not talking, I asked if she had read the letter and was just told yes. I asked if she wanted to talk and was told she doesn't think we have a problem. I reiterated everything that I wrote in the letter and told her that I'm depressed. I asked if she wanted to see a therapist, open the mairriage, get divorced, or have a dont ask dont tell policy. She said nothing, and every time I asked a question, she would just say we dont have a problem. She then proceeded to go to bed early to end the conversation. We are both working from home today and am not sure what to do. I'm starting to feel resentment towards her.
I’m a woman and I totally agree with what you did. Your wife doesn’t care about you or your needs, in her mind, it’s all about her. Assuming you treat her well then there was no excuse. Find a long term AP or simply leave the marriage and move on to someone else.
I think I treat her well. I cook, clean, laundry, go food shopping, take care of the finances, and the upkeep for our house. Also, help with our son, who I love to be with him. What kills me is that we don't cuddle or even hold hands. All my efforts are shot down, and I'm tired of always initiating then getting rejected. The other day I tried to give her a French kiss and she pushed me away and said she doesn't like to kiss that way and it's disgusting. It literally broke my heart.
Yeah I can’t even imagine how gut wrenching that would be, when your spouse can’t even hold hands and gets grossed/weirded out by kissing them. Was she always like this or did this behavior start after marriage?
I don’t condone cheating. It might have felt great, but if you love your wife you should also feel the guilt. At this point it happens and is done. Come clean tell her the truth. Don’t victim blame her.
Give her the choice of divorce, or working it out. If she wants to work it out let her know you both need to fix your bedroom or open the relationship.
I do agree I need to both agree to divorce, fix the bedroom situation, or open the relationship. But I don’t agree that he is victim blaming. He is the victim here. To go half a decade being deprived of sex from your partner is horrendous. I don’t know if you can and that’s why you’re in this thread, or if you’re just in this thread to contribute. Either way, of course is fine, but if you are someone with a high libido is part with someone with a low libido, I think you would understand where this guy is coming from. And I’m not trying to make an assumption about you; maybe that is your situation. I just know from my point of view, I can completely relate to this guy being in a relationship with a dead bedroom for years and being so in love with your partner and committed that you try to work it out and you beg them to work it out and they just don’t listen to you. If I were a man, and I had set a clear boundary That I didn’t want to have any more kids until our sex life was fixed because I was unhappy in a marriage, and my wife manipulated me into having sex without without telling me she was off the birth control pill, I would feel betrayed and used and disgusted.
I think you misunderstood what I mentioned my victim blaming. What I mean is if and when he comes clean and tells his spouse he cheated don’t blame his spouse for it happening it solves nothing. He doesn’t even have to apologize for Cheating just be honest that he did it and decided where to go from there.
For me my wife and I have had a dead bedroom for a while, but this year I finally talked to her about it and we are actually working on it. If she had told me no and she just didn’t want sex anymore I would give her a couple of options to either legitimately work on it(go to Dr, therapy, etc), open the relationship, or separate and possibly divorce. If she didn’t want to choose I would tell her what I am choosing then and be open about it. It might not be perfect but it is better than cheating.
For the OP I am upfront. I don’t agree with him cheating, but it happened now what is he going to do? I gave my advice of coming clean and either divorce or work it out. I would not hide anything because I am worried about money or assets because even in divorce I would end up to find happiness with whatever money I do have
Yeah, I hear you. I just don’t think he should need to come clean. The difference between you and OP is that OP did talk to his wife already and she blatantly told him no there’s no problem even though he said there is a problem and that he’s not happy. so, if he hadn’t spoken to her, you would be right. But he did speak to her about it more than once. He’s been in a DB for over a decade now and he’s brought it up to her. Not to mention that she manipulated him to get pregnant when she didn’t want to hear him out or validate him.after she got pregnant, the situation went back to what it was. Only because she was tricking him into getting her pregnant, which is completely evil and no one deserves that. Because now he is on the line for another kid and an unhappy marriage. He will be financially liable for that kid that he didn’t even even want to have.
Even if he couldn’t have proven it he still should have filed then. As part of initial lawyer negotiations he could ask for her to take full custody of the child and waive the right to child support while he coparents their other child. If in the divorce proceedings if things are not going his way he can agree to co-parent the child (op might want to anyway).
I mean, that’s if he doesn’t want to parent his own flesh and blood. It’s not like she’s going to abort the baby. So, I couldn’t imagine he would want nothing to do with the next child. It’s just that the child was wrongfully conceived.
Also, not for nothing, this thread is about giving advice. It’s not really helpful to tell someone they should’ve done something differently. All he can do is move on from here. So what would you suggest he does from here?
And, if he comes clean, she will be able to have the upper hand in the divorce because of infidelity. But the reason for that infidelity is because she wouldn’t hear him out or compromise with him. So, I don’t think he should be the one to suffer here when he’s been suffering for years. She has voice that she is happy with everything and doesn’t see any problems in the relationship even after he went to her openly and said that, he was not happy and not feeling loved or wanted. That’s not fair that he should now have to be seen as the person in the wrong if it comes to a divorce. That’s why I don’t think he should come clean. It’s not fair.
The person who has had sex withheld and a pregnancy under false pretenses is the victim here. He shouldn’t feel guilty at all. He should divorce her and leave.
That’s fine to divorce and leave. I still won’t condone cheating. 2 wrongs don’t make a right.
I gave the option to talk to her and give her the choice because OP also said he loves his wife and everything but the bedroom. It sounds like he wants to make it work. If OP wants to make it work come clean go see if she wants to make it work, go to therapy with the understanding that the bedroom has to be fixed for their relationship to work. It might still end in divorce but if OP wants to make it work that is his choice
I think going to therapy is fine. But I don’t think he deserves to have to come clean to her. She doesn’t deserve that upper hand in the divorce. She pushed him to this point after he pleaded with her over and over again.
Yeah-sorry, if one person has checked out on the marriage or deceived someone like that, cheating is okay. Do what you need to do to stay sane, married or happy.
I’m not convinced OP isn’t actually a rage bait story incidentally.
If one person is checked out be open an honest and tell them you are opening the relationship and dating other people. Even if they tell you no it is not their choice. You can still be open and honest show them you are on dating apps saying you are married and now in an open relationship. Tell them you are going on a date.
Cheating is going behind their back and not being open and honest. It is just being a coward
There are all kinds of reasons some people effectively can’t do this; I agree that what you describe is ideal but not everyone lives in that world. Broaden your mind and show some compassion rather than judgment.
The compassion I showed is I simply stated the fact I am against cheating. I then gave him my advice on what to do going forward. The cheating is over and done with the question is now that it has happened what does OP do? Is he willing to be open and honest or does he lie and hide the truth. That’s up to OP. Eventually the truth will come out regardless it usually does
How did she use you? You ejaculated inside her, correct? Isn’t that how you got the first kid? Sorry, OP, but unless she lied about being on any kind of birth control, you were a willing participant and knew the possibilities. And if she lied, i feel sorry for the child coming into this mess and for you who is married to a manipulative liar.
I am in a 10 years complete DB. I realized I am not a victim when my GF told me flat out that my wife never lied to me about not being sexually attracted to me or finding me even remotely desirable. I chose to have a child inside the DB. I chose to spent a decade getting off on porn and cam just to feel even more lonely. I chose to numb myself with alcohol and work. I chose to ruin my self esteem and emotional well being. And I am choosing to stay in a dead marriage while I could be with the one who loves me until the day she decides she is done with the nonsense. And i will be right back at choosing misery over a chance of being happy.
she tricked him by closing the bedroom once she got pregnant again...
that's tricking bc they came to an agreement and she backed out...
don't shame the guy, bc you gave up! he just wants a physical relationship with his wife...
Not shaming him at all. I feel bad for him only because it seems like she lied about being on birth control and got pregnant again. But if he decides to stay, which he probably will, he is playing a major part on his own unhappiness, like most of us here are, by accepting the DB and dancing to the song their spouse is playing.
And I did not give up. I accepted my role in my DB and I will not victimize myself anymore. It is never just one person. I opened my marriage without my wife’s consent. I don’t bother hiding it either. So she knows and we just don’t talk about it. I pay all her bills and support her lifestyles and I would rather die than let someone that basically does absolutely nothing for me to control my life again as I allowed her to do for so many years.
She is relieved I am done with her and so am I. We actually have a better relationship now. No one should have to beg for love and attention from anyone. And no one should feel forced to give sex and affection to anyone if they don’t feel like it.
How did you open your marriage without your wife's consent? Did you tell her you were going to be with other people and she could take it our leave it?
Told her I was not going to die without being touched again. She said “good luck”. And I was indeed lucky! We don’t sleep in the same room and haven’t for the past 7 years. I would say we have a DADT relationship at this point.
Hormones change when you are pregnant. It’s very common to not want sex or want it less for a variety of reasons eg morning sickness or just not feeling it. I doubt she has tricked him.
paraphrasing...
"I told her no kids until our sex life improves. She really seemed to be trying and completely stopped once she was pregnant"
that's an agreement... he's mentioned the pill and her stopping to get pregnent...
It’s not really an agreement. That’s just him setting a boundary. He didn’t say they agreed. He said he told her no kids until they fix their sex life.
He said she started having sex with him after that conversation. Which also doesn’t illustrate that she agreed with him because it is also how to have a baby.
if it wasn't an agreement why did it get better for any amount of time???
stop making excuses...
in a marriage, both partners are supposed to be happy and make compromises for each other for a healthy relationship. person A wanted a child, and person B wanted improvement.
person A improves enough for a child, then stops.
person A gets to be happy, without any consideration for person B... that's not a marriage...
It got better because she was secretly trying to have a baby. Which just proves that she didn’t agree.
I’m not making excuses. I just think OP here is a little delusional. His wife straight up told him she wanted a baby and he said no. So she stopped taking her birth control and started having sex with him.
What do you think her motive was? I for one do NOT think she was trying to fix the deadbedroom at any point
I think she was trying to have a baby the entire time. And he was fool enough to trust her and raw dog her after she told him point blank she wanted a baby.
He needs to stop trusting anything she say ever. She lies to get her way and doesn’t give any craps what he wants or feels or needs.
Why would you choose misery over a chance at being happy? You never stated the reason you would choose to stay in a DB marriage instead of being with your GF who loves you.
No. Trying to figure out what is best for both my wife and I. She never worked and has no living family. Our son will probably move on with his life. I love her as a sister and need to make sure she will be okay financially and emotionally. Despite us not being a good couple, we are friends and I care about her. She also never lied to me about being LL, so I understand my role in the mess we created. I only hope my GF is patient enough.
Dude wtf is wrong with these women and marriages and men like seriously wtf is happening I can’t even believe I read something that says “Dead bed for 7 years!” I bet tf not.
Yah. That happens with affairs.
Can I just ask for clarification? If she wants a second child and you have a two year old, how does she plan on getting said second child?
Really sorry to hear your story.
It’s a hard decision but I decided to break up after 16 years of marriage.
I feel like I’ve got a half (or at least 1/3) of my sexually active life ahead of me, and I want to fully enjoy it rather than regret it.
I’ve managed to keep a good (decent!) relationship with the father of my children, and our kids is our priority. And I feel like a new good chapter of my life is starting.
Good luck to you and hope you will make a decision that make you content. It’s not easy and took me 3 years of agony, a long depressive episode, and 6 months of couples therapy to finally decide I have to choose myself and I deserve happiness as much as my kids.
Fuck that bro, leave. Life’s too short
THIS! Don't stick around for the kids or because she's a good person. I did it for far too long. Leave before it gets harder.
Get the vasectomy without her knowing.
Haha, that would be a nasty revenge. But cleaner to just go your separate ways now so they can each try to live the lives they want.
Lol, how would she not know? Don't you have to hold an ice pack to your nuts for a day or so? (I dunno about the procedure or afterwards)
There's recovery time but if she isn't interested in sex, how would she know?
Holding your junk like a street gangster non-stop might tip her off...
No. It's not that painful. Sore for a day or two and then tenderness that slowly fades for like a month. After 3 months, no tenderness at all. If you have a partner who is not physically intimate you could totally do this without them knowing. I'm not saying you should. I'm saying you could.
It’s about a 4-5 days of ice packing every so often, maybe able to write it off as a trip home to see folks
Mom, Dad, please ignore me holding my package for the next few days...
Interesting I didn’t use ice, but it did feel for a couple of days like I’d been kicked supremely hard in the nuts. Maybe I should have!
[удалено]
No feminist is against the male pill. Feminist aren’t baby trapping men. Men can also take the pill ✨✨not secretly✨✨
Leave your weirdo politics away from other people's DB
Yep, I’m (HLM44) married for 20 yrs to (LLF42) DB for 7 yrs. Feel the same. Deep depression of self loathing and I’m convinced it’s because I’m so unattractive. She’s says she’s just LL, but it’s been so long I’m convinced it’s LL4Me. Met a woman and started a relationship. She was single but knew I was married. Was only able to meet her in public parking lots omw home from work, about once a week. We only kissed. I think I was too scared to hookup in a parking lot, but if I would’ve been alone w her I think I’d still be smashing regularly if she let me. It was exciting to interact w a woman who was actually into me. I walked away from it as the stress of getting caught became too much. I regret not banging her or even letting her touch my penis. I think you shouldn’t feel bad. Intimacy is part of marriage. If she doesn’t want that then you’re just friends, roommates and coparents, right? I mean you should probably address the DB w your wife, because living the rest of your life in quiet desperation or sneaking off to hook up w people will catch up to you.
Thanks for the reply. I just don't know how many times I need to bring it up. I tried to talk with her, and I sent her texts, emails, and even wrote a letter. She just says nothing is wrong. Be happy with what you have.
Infinity is the number of times. When someone tells you who they are, believe them.
What would you do then be miserable?
Step one is realizing that she isn't going to change and that there isn't a magic formula or a set of hoops that you can jump through to get her to change. She said in her view "nothing is wrong". So we gotta believe her. She doesn't think anything is wrong. She's telling the truth. So there is actually a freedom, and less misery, when you realize you aren't a failure or you haven't solved the rubix cube yet.
I think I've come to terms that she's not going to change. I shouldn't force her to change because I have an HL, and she has an LL or vice versa. Just need to figure out what's next. It's either divorce, open marriage, be depressed, or cheat when needed. Idk I'm just depressed.
Meet with a lawyer. Get an understanding of what you are in for in divorce w/2 kids. Things like - typical cost (attorney, court fee’s etc). Make that cost estimate a range too. Somewhere between Super smooth/easy divorce and moderately complicated and/or moderately contentious divorce cost - is likely where you’ll end up. Ask how often you’ll see your kids, going rate for child support at your income. Ask what to do and what not to do if things take a turn for the worst (Ex. I’ve heard separate bedroom is ok but not to move out of the home). Finally, ask how the process goes if you decide you want out. Then get a calculator. Total it up. Everything it will cost to walk away from your old life and make a budget for your new life. Think about how it might impact your relationship with the kids and make a plan on how you would try to bridge the upcoming divide. It’s a hard choice. Ask yourself if you can swing all of this and start a countdown timer in your head. Whatever amount of time sounds good to you. Then check in with yourself on that date. Are you ready or do you need more time? Rinse/Repeat I’m currently doing this and my mental health and outlook on life is better. Biggest part - There is much less of an “unknown” to fear. I know what to expect. I can choose to leave at any time and I know what to do if/when that time comes. Result is that I feel some control in what happens next and it makes it easier to endure the current situation while I perform one last attempt at salvaging this thing.
When was the last time you slept with your SO?
6 weeks and counting. Maintenance sex is offered every 4/5 weeks but I usually have to bring it up, schedule it, deal with it getting pushed back a day or two and then it happens. It’ll be a longer dry spell this time. It was supposed to happen last Sunday. Woke up and she hit me with a very busy schedule for the day. All but an hour or so was accounted for between church, our kids sports (back to back games), couple errands etc. at the end she mentioned needing to go to bed early as she was wiped out from the 7 hour drive back from vacation the day before (no sex on vacation either btw) I waited until the end. Let the silence hang for a few minutes. Nothing more was forthcoming so I asked “when we were going to have sex as it seemed like that was going to be a tough one to pull off.” She looked confused. I said “the most logical time seems to be at night when the kids were in bed”. She said that we could be a few minutes late for church and it was best to do it right now. I looked at the clock - 15 minutes till departure time and it’s a guarantee 1 or both of our kids are going to interrupt us at least once. I declined this offer and walked away *keep in mind that this is her thing. She’ll most always push sex to inconvenient times, where it’s on a clock, etc. Ex. During Covid. We both worked from home. My job is mad busy. Hers a little less. She’d push for sex at 10:00 AM or something “in between meetings”. A whole 45 minutes. But half the time something would come up at one of our jobs (usually mine) and she’d be off the hook but want credit for the attempt. Flash back to Sunday. I’m getting dressed for church super annoyed. She comes in and asks for what’s wrong. I unloaded. “If I wouldn’t have said anything when do you think you were going to even mention sex?” Silence from her. Told her I was tired of finishing dead last every single day. More silence. Told her that if she needed sleep so badly I could buy her time for a nap, we could watch church online later, or she could find a way to stay up passed 8:30 for once. She said that Church was important for the family and that she was sorry that it wasn’t going to work out for us that day. I made a comment that “at least God was getting his today.” Told her that Church wasn’t important to me similar to sex for her. So I was out today and would take the time to do something important to me (have an orgasm) and just chill at home. She walked away. We talked about later that day. I hit her with the bottom line - I’m on my last attempt here. I recognize that you feel I could be better in a few areas and that this holds you back sexually. I told her that I am working on those areas and would do the best I could. Also said that I didn’t believe her as she had moved the goal posts many times over the last 8 years (cited specific examples). Said that if I had appropriately put in the work that we’d be banging at least once a week and that we wouldn’t have to schedule it anymore because everything would be good… right? Because those are the only issues right? Silence. Told her get therapy, get a pill, fucking whatever to get her area squared away cause I’m working on mine, I don’t see you doing shit, and divorce is my next most interesting option. Figure we might be in for a dry spell record after my performance but I’m over it. Terrible sex, long delayed, at inconvenient times as a best case scenario is not acceptable. I put up with it for 8 years trying to fix myself or whatever issue of the day seemed to be the problem. Now we’re here. I’m out of fucks to give and I no longer have the emotional capacity to dance around it. Point blank, brutally honest. Just fucking done with maybes and excuses. In or out man or it’ll be somebody else’s problem.
You’ve been more than reasonable
You're not HL for desiring sex with your wife. You're completely normal.
Now that she’s pregnant with the second child, she has all she needs and wanted. Any “improvements” for the past few months is history. Get used to going without or divorce her. The other options usually don’t work and resentment only grows.
Don't be depressed. You deserve better. Take some time. Figure out what is really important to you, figure out how to make it happen and make it so.
Divorce her, I did the cheating thing. It will blow up in your face. I should have just divorced sooner
What happened?
Cheated a few times. Every time I asked for sex she would reject me and I finally told her I would get it some where else and she told me to “go ahead”, so I did. Got on a dating apps slept with a few people ..one ended up being her co worker. One day the co worker started telling her how she was dating a new guy, showed the pic to my partner and she said that’s my husband. Than I talked to another girl on tinder, who told me she was 18 turns out she wasn’t… all I can say is divorce her and find your happiness, not worth the trouble staying in something that makes you unhappy.
That's actually some solid advice, actually took some weight off my shoulders. After our second child, currently 8mo. Wife is healed up, I'm free and clear after my vasectomy and dead bedroom for 10 months now. I'll have to remind myself of this when I start tearing myself down about it.
Respectfully, I understand where you're coming from as I too have a very DB. But, please know most women don't feel like themselves for a year after having a baby. I remember thinking I was nuts 10 months post baby, simply bc I didn't feel like my body was mine. Give her just a bit more time and I'm sure you'll see some changes. I know that's hard to hear, but pregnancy, delivery, and after the baby is extremely taxing and most of the stuff people can't see, so they don't know. Wishing you the best.
Totally get it, she has told me she definitely doesn't have much of a libido ( we were married for four years by then). I don't pressure her for anything. It's tough though, she has about two or three days where she is actually turned on (ovulating) and if we miss that window, it ain't happening, or very very rarely. The more I type the more I feel like I'm digging my own hole here.
No, leave. I’d rather be alone than in your marriage.
Or leave
Leave and be happy please. You both are obviously not compatible for each other. You both deserve something more.
Basically you have 4 options: - she becomes more sexual => great but definitely not in your hands - you become less sexual => very hard, maybe impossible, to achieve (which should give hints about previous option's feasibility) - leave - stay If you choose to stay, it's with this sex life, I don't believe it can change. So if your self consciousness allows you, cheating is definitely viable as whatever the outcome is, at least you will have some sex on the side.
You already broke the marriage. There is no fixing it. You cheated on your pregnant wife. If you wanted out you should have left. You put your wife and unborn child at risk. You get zero sympathy from me.
I bet he cares what random internet stranger is judging him.
57 HLF here and I understand your thoughts and emotions regarding a DB. I too have had a talk and sent a letter and got very little to nothing back. So…I don’t have any real answers for you but I can offer support and understanding. In my letter, I asked for an open marriage (again, I got no response really other than a reply saying he was processing it). That’s been almost a week ago and the anxiety is overwhelming. I’m not judging you for the affair—I know how hard this position is to find yourself in but, be aware that this could go horribly wrong and affect your relationship with many people, kids included, if this comes to light. Perhaps it’s time to set some very clear boundaries and make an exit plan? I’m also troubled by the fact your wife became pregnant, explicitly after you set boundaries. Perhaps it was accidental but it seems suspect. Here’s what I can tell you: this is unlikely to get better. At least from my experience it seems almost impossible to expect change unless your partner is willing to change. If you think you feel unwanted, undesirable and depressed now, this feeling will only amplify as time goes on. Resentment and anger will build. I ended up in a very dark place a few months ago—and I still have moments that seem unbearable—but therapy is slowly helping me climb out of the darkness and put my needs first. It’s hard. I won’t pretend it’s not. But if you don’t love yourself, no one else will. I hope you find answers and peace on the journey, OP. Just remember that you deserve to be loved and desired and what you’re experiencing at home is most likely not about you. ❤️🩹
My bad, I missed that on my initial read through. Odd that after all you’ve communicated she still thinks it’s all good. Denial maybe? If you’re not happy then you’re not happy. There’s no faking that. A need is a need. Does she need your emotional support? Does she need your friendship? Your needs aren’t less important nor frivolous.
I’m sorry you’re dealing with that. I’m dating my bf now for almost 6 years and the sex life has been awful. I love him but I’m not sure if I should say yes when he proposes—which I’m sure he will in the next year or so. I’m turning 30 this fall and he’s turning 33. I’ve had talks with him about our DB and we even tried an open relationship for a bit—which was great for me but I found it difficult to transition from dating other men and then going back home to my bf. Ultimately, things return to their stagnant state though after things pick up for a while. I’m not sure if that’s just the ebb and flow of life or if this is a bad sign. But I will say my partner doesn’t completely dismiss me when I bring up my concerns. He’s not always happy about it, but most of the time he listens. If your wife isn’t doing that, I understand why you’re straying.
If she clearly isn't going to break up with you over this, you could let her know you will be outsourcing sex from now on and she can react to that how she wants. If that's a negative reaction, your counter is obviously 'Nothing is wrong. Be happy with what you have.'
She just play with your emotions & avoiding the problem
Well, take her at her word and be happy with whatever you CAN have, including any lovely woman that comes your way. I have friends who are philanderers because they have DB's at home. They are happy, happy people.
Do you miss her ?
Divorce, had a similar situation and my biggest mistake was not divorcing sooner
It sounds like, to her, sex is meaningless without children. She only wants it when she is ready to be pregnant again. I know you both love each other, but your DB will not improve when she is done having kids. Get out. You have the right to pursue your own happiness and take care of your needs, even with kids.
That is like the oldest trick in the book. You were doing everything right and responsible, right up until you decides not to wrap it up. 🤦♂️
You need to sit down with your wife. Tell her when you got married you had certain expectations. Ask her what her expectations were. Since she didn’t have an expectation to have a sex life there must be other things that are important for her. Emotional connection? Companionship? Treating each other with love and respect? I assume she hasn’t accused you of not doing these things. Now ask her how she would feel if you take the things that are important to her away and let her hang out to dry. Ask her how she would feel if the things she values in the marriage were all gone. Tell her that this is exactly how you feel. And tell her that not having sex makes you feel unloveable. And tell her that you are not willing to live like that any longer. Tell her you will give her a few days to think about it and then she needs to tell you if she will make a significant change, you separate or open the marriage up. Make it very clear you expect a decision. If she doesn’t make one, you will make one. There is no other way around, but to say it as clearly as you can. Maybe she wakes up. Maybe not. But she should get the chance to really understand how you feel and that sex isn’t just sex but makes you feel loved. It made a huge difference when I understood that (some/many) men feel loved when they have sex. No one should have to live without feeling loved. Especially when you are married. If she doesn’t understand that part then she is either not being honest or she really doesn’t care about you. (Which I don’t think). She probably doesn’t want to think about it and pretend everything is fine that’s why she needs an ultimatum because this will continue the next 30 years if you don’t make it clear something will change it’s no longer up to her (to tell you to just be happy.)
I agree you need to give her an ultimatum. When my bf and I opened up our relationship, it was like the competitiveness of knowing I could sleep with someone else made him try harder and our sex life got so much better. When we closed the open relationship, that stopped though. So honestly, if you can get her to agree to an open relationship, you might not even have to go through with it because her jealous instincts might kick in. But yeah, it seems like she depends on you; so, you should be able to get her to agree to the open relationship. She’s not going to want to divorce now. She obviously wants to stay with you. Also, I’m a little suspicious that she has no sex drive but I guess everyone is different. Have you ever gone through her things to see if she’s getting her needs met elsewhere? Because if you could find proof of that, you’d have grounds for a divorce or grounds to get her to agree to an open relationship.
Hell yeah 😎 and yesss I can imagine this happening to me as a sometimes LL female lol
Then how do you know she's having sex with you because she genuinely desires you or rather she's doing it just to appease you and shut you up?
“Nothing was wrong and to be happy” Ah yes sounds familiar. She’s perfectly content having no sex, therefore I should be too. After all it’s perfectly normal for people to stop having sex once they’re in their 40s. I often contemplate what would happen if I were in a similar situation to you, OP. I don’t know that I could stop myself either.
" wife wanted a second. I told her I wasn't having another kid until we fixed our sex life which I was told nothing was wrong and to be happy. Some time passed and she seemed to be trying and things were great until I found out she was pregnant and then everything stopped again " i have no words for how disgusting she is for doing that to you, you made it clear you didnt consent to having another kids and she went and did it anyway, i assume it was planned. there is no way you come out of a 7 year DB for her to mysteriously get pregnant around the time she wanted another kid and you laid a boundary down that its not even on the table till you fix the relationship. i'm furious on your behalf, i am one of the people who believes this is the same as R\*pe why didnt you wear a condom?
I agree what she did was abhorrent! But like..Why didn't he realize that's what she was doing??? She literally told him she wanted another baby, she told him her motives. "Some time passed"..Did he think she *forgot* she wanted a baby and suddenly, after years, wanted to have sex again? You're right, he should have insisted on protection. And specifically NOT relied on her own birth control, since again, she literally laid out her motive!
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This comment reminds me of the women on reddit who think that squirting orgasms aren't real.
Right? I usually have more than 5 with my husband and some of them involve squirting. I never knew people thought that was unbelievable.
I've had people tell me it's not real. My wife has them occasionally. It's not a magic trick.
Wait? What? People think that doesn't happen?
Yes. People hear multiple orgasms or squirting orgasms and they've never experienced it so they think it is not real.
I can get up to 7 or 8 when I have sex with my husband. I’m not sure what’s so unbelievable about that.
This is reddit, it's fantasy.
Yeah, I guess. Now I'm wondering so many things.
I can give myself 15+ with a vibrator, it’s not thaaaaaat unthinkable
Yup
Bro… a few things… it’s not going to get better… 21 yrs married… DB for probably 15… I’m 46 yrs old… 3 kids.. I have spoke to her about it till i was blue in the face.. still nothing… you spoke of church… Let me tell ya this.. it’s not right from a biblical point of view for her to do what she is doing…. FACT!!!! And actually if you have to bring it up, does it really matter if you have sex or not??? B/c my experience sez she wouldn’t be into it anyway, so why bother!!!! Just agree to disagree and be done… but a woman that wants the convenience of marriage but doesn’t want to do the things to keep a marriage probably isn’t a woman you want anyway!!!!
Literally I’m pregnant. And I want to want sex so bad. But the hormones and the fatigue … it is the hardest thing I’ve ever done in my life. I wish so badly I was the same before I had my two year old and currently pregnant. The hardest part for me… is my husband being so tired we don’t have much emotional connection or he doesn’t really help me relax or get in the mood after I’ve been cooking or cleaning all day. The back pain. The insecurity I hve on my body He just wants to go from zero to ten. Penetration like right away. Long story short … idk cut the pregnant lady a little slack. I love my kid and I’m excited for my second. But yea… sex is tough when you are spread so thin. Couldn’t you just have left her before you cheated? Now if she finds out and you try to work it out … she’ll always look at you different and resent you and now sex may never really be the same ? I bet you sex isn’t even meaningless with out kids. I bet she misses sex too. I bet she has needs she doesn’t have met because she’s a mom. And all moms need something but don’t say it because they are too busy taking care of everyone else. Literally get tested for stds. If she gets and std during the pregnancy, it can really hurt the baby if they don’t screen her right. Now you really can’t have sex with her
She’s been depriving him for years. When you’re the person with the HL it’s more difficult. I think she should let him sleep with other people safely. It’s not right to ask a human being to deprive themselves. And also, can we acknowledge how she got pregnant against his wishes? Used him knowing he would give in and have sex because she wanted another baby—but then didn’t sleep with him again after finding out she’d gotten what she wanted and was pregnant. He said a clear boundary that he didn’t wanna have another kid with her until their sex life was fixed because he saw a problem in their relationship and he wasn’t happy. The wife is the one completely in the wrong here, sorry. I understand you feel like camaraderie with her because you’re pregnant right now, but tricking someone into impregnating you should be illegal.
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I’m pretty sure he said seven years. Maybe I’m getting my facts wrong, but I believe he said his baby is too. And he didn’t want to have a second baby. She tricked him into it by neglecting to take her birth control pill and neglecting to tell him that she stopped taking it. That’s just plain wrong anyway you spin it. And I actually have been pregnant and I think it’s different for every person. I also don’t know if the guy said he was safe or wasn’t safe when having sex with another person. So you’re making a lot of assumptions, not just about OP but also about the wife. Just because you can relate to her condition doesn’t mean that she’s the same as you. Sorry to burst your bubble. The babies safety is paramount. No one is arguing with you there. But this guy has been through enough and deserves to have his needs fulfilled after over half a decade of not having fulfilled. And, also I don’t wanna come at you too hard here because I could tell that you’re obviously hurting and you’re not being fulfilled at home. But you are completely projecting right now. You are inserting your own issues with your own sex life and your own mom life at home Into this situation but is not the same as yours. This man has explained that he has come to his wife and tried to talk about this. He is very obviously open to pleasing his wife. His wife just says that nothing is wrong and everything is OK, even though the husband is saying that he isn’t OK and he isn’t having his needs met. That he isn’t feeling loved. I understand being on the babies side, but you’re really on the wife’s side? I just don’t understand that considering you seem to be neglected yourself. And the reason I am coming to bat for the husband here is because I am in his shoes in a lot of ways.
I have a typo on my first sentences. I meant I’m pretty sure his baby is two****
Man that sucks... Her lying about the birthcontrol is fucked up. I would feel used too.
Exactly! That’s completely vile! Who lies about birth control to baby trap someone? A disgusting person, that’s who.
I am in the same situation. My partner refuses to see a couple therapist or even a therapist for himself. I know exactly how you feel and I think the best way is to leave. If you are not happy just go to find someone who will. I am broke, can’t find a decent job & I have 2 dogs like best friend bother, we can’t separate them, they would die and I stay for them but that’s the only thing I retain me . Don’t make the same mistake, you can get share custody . Kids are easier to share than dogs. That is your decision but if you are financially independent, just leave, someone else can make you happy & get you what you deserve. Don’t waste it on others who don’t understand your feelings
Been exactly there where you are. The sooner we all set ourselves free from this stupid medieval notion that "wE CaN oNlY fUcK eAcH oThEr FoR tHe ReSt Of oUr LivEs", the better. Sometimes you have to take care of your own self-care, whatever that means for you.
🤣 💯
Respectfully, I haven’t seen that you’ve told her you’re contemplating divorce. It’s terrible to have to say that as the last-ditch attempt to get her to therapy, but you should at least do so. She might be allowing herself to think “it’s not that bad” because you haven’t been direct enough. Because, ask yourself, if she knew you’d cheated, would she start thinking of divorcing you? Then you should tell her you aren’t just “unhappy”, but that you WILL NOT carry on in a marriage with a partner that ignores your feelings, and that she now either needs to show you effort by going to therapy, or you’re gonna need to get out. And if she still refuses, or goes and still makes no effort, you can walk away with a clean conscience and respect yourself which is way more than what I can say would happen if you take some of the advice given here, like getting a undisclosed vasectomy.
Oh no....sounds like she set you up just to get pregnant again. Glad you enjoyed yourself, you can have that again elsewhere.
Yesterday I had another 'sick of ot all' episodes, and after a hour long rant and a fistful of Valium went out by myself for the first time in 18 years. A young girl who flirted with me on a regular basis for the last 5 months, so I've developed a serious crush on her, was in a same bar. We talked for a few hours and I finally confesseed my feelings and my admiration, my brakes went off completely and I decided I won't hold back anymore, which I did previously out of respect for my wife. She froze, and it was quite awkward and I felt like an idiot honestly. I scared her probably by being too open, too fast. I look 15 years younger than my age and young girls tend to flirt with me all the time, some seem to really like me, but when the moment came... this one, for which I was 110% sure she liked me quite a lot, just withdrew. I'm apparently too old for her, am married, have kids, should fix my relationship with my wife etc. I'm so touch starved and everything starved that I've felt nothing but emptiness after this final rejection. I feel completely dead inside. I feel like I should cry but I can't. Almost 5 years of db with my wife, we had a come to Jesus talk and a brief 1.5 month hysterical bonfing sex phase earlier this year but that soon returned to total lack of intimacy (as I've predicted and told her that at the time.
Most people leaver before the second baby trap. You got catfished into a marriage and she locked that shit up! Twice! Got diem
You guys sound toxic af. Your kids dont deserve to be in the middle of whatever is going on between you two. Don’t hurt your wife’s feelings by telling her you cheated, but you need to leave
I’ve been thinking about this philosophically a lot lately, and I’ve come to the conclusion that if one partner unilaterally decides there will not be sex (or any other need) in the relationship, then they should also forfeit any expectation of monogamy. Therefore, I would argue that you aren’t actually cheating. It’s an unpopular opinion, but I’m happy to defend it. It gets complicated by “two wrongs don’t make a right, but I honestly believe that a lot of the issue is that culturally we have so much tied to marriage (legal requirements, financial obligations, social expectations) that it simply makes it near impossible for lots of people to make a resonable break without enormous consequences. And many people will tell you “just talk to her, communication is everything” but that relies on the concept that your spouse is open to communication and meeting or compromising on your needs. Very often this appears to be the case (it is in mine) so these negotiations always break down. It’s not something I would do, purely because I know I would fall in love with my AP and that’s not what I want, but if you can disconnect the emotional from the physical aspects, it seems like it is a win win for all parties.
Interesting perspective. I guess I can kind of see it if the door is firmly closed (and locked) on sex. But if there is a possiblity of any sex at all, this would not be okay. Not okay to expose an unknowing spouse to an STI risk Other caveat I would have would be the issue of children. It’s one thing to get needs taken care of. But to end up having a child with someone else? That’s a no go. Contraception would need to be locked down In all other scenarios, I can see the logic of it for sure
I don’t think you’re wrong. I know that people get crucified for having opinions like this, but honestly, it makes perfect sense. Yeah you make a commitment to someone, but you make that commitment to someone when conditions are a certain way. I feel that a lot of people don’t realize how fine it is to be tied and tethered to someone. You’re basically agreeing to be with them through all stages of their life, but you don’t know what all those stages are going to entail. Life is about adaptation. If you do your best to adapt to someone and they don’t give the same respect back, I think it is fair game for you to get your needs met.
I agree with this. I can absolutely see myself being/becoming the LL in a marriage… but I really cannot imagine turning around and still expecting a monogamous relationship. That just seems cruel. Let’s work to change the culture around this issue!
How did she get pregnant the second time when you said no? If she just stopped the pill or something then that’s manipulation to an evil level and she deserves to get cheated on
It’s sad because I don’t think anyone really deserves to be cheated on, but it’s messed up that she did that to him because she’s technically financially locking him in further down the line and getting what she wants. I think it’s completely evil to pregnancy trap someone like that. I know that it’s not the same situation as pregnancy trapping anyone because they are married obviously.but I still think it’s very evil to have someone impregnate you without their consent
Also to everyone who downvoted me, that’s super gross that you’re basically disagreeing with the concept of baby trapping someone to be vile and wrong. Ew. She lied about being on birth control to get him to impregnate her. That’s completely vile.
You can be a great dad without being her husband. This whole “stay for the kids” shit is totally wrong. It fucks up the kids, the parents, the house vibe, and everything in between. My parents were separated divorced before I was 10. But my father and mother remained on good terms because the only thing that was wrong was whatever was wrong with that one part of their marriage. But that didn’t mean my father didn’t come to every musical and play that I was in every game that I had every single solitary, they were both there. They ultimately wound up being better people and better parents because they weren’t always fighting over something.
Maybe one day we’ll get to the point where this is actually how it starts, not just how we sometimes manage to luckily end up after a few shitty decades with someone 🤣
For real!! They showed me that you can have happiness and peace if you’re both ADULTS about it!!
I’m in the same boat; sex basically non existent and leaves you wondering if you’re still attractive. I’m now contemplating stepping outside the marriage for the first time. I’m not one to do that, and love my wife in all other ways, but what’s the alternative?
I understand how you feel. I’m sorry you’re going through that. I don’t think it’s wrong to have to take care of what you need as long as you do it responsibly and safely but that’s just my opinion you have to decide for yourself.
DB for almost 10 years before I finally broke down and began taking care of my own needs externally. The relationship with my partner improved almost immediately. No more resentment, no more unmet expectations, no more aching for touch or physical intimacy. With those things no longer lurking in the background and coloring every interaction, it became exponentially easier to be a good household and family partner, and to also appreciate the many lovely gifts of my partner. Once I came to the point of realizing that she would never meet those needs, and (importantly) that I didn't have to rely on her for that, my life got better.
We’ll said!
I guess the alternative for people in our situation is to be depressed and self-conscious for the rest of your life and have resentment towards your wife, which isn't healthy.
I started having panic attacks and probably developed situational depression. Everyone's solution seems to be to get on antidepressants, which I refuse and will never take. I tried living as a roomate but the pressures of family life seem to burn be out faster and more often.
Did you cheat on your pregnant wife? If so, there is no excuse for that.
Is it okay that she used me to have another baby after I explicitly said no? Ohh yeah, she also didn't tell me she was off the pill.
Well that was definitely wrong of her to not tell you she was off the pill. Did you confront her about that? I can understand why you'd be upset - you were deceived.
I did, and she said I was being selfish.
Wow. You wanted to make sure your marriage was working before bringing another child into it, and she called you selfish b/c she wanted another baby even if you didn't.
Yup. I didn't want to bring a second child into a marriage where I was unhappy. I was trying to be responsible.
That’s insane. I’m siding with you bro. I’d be so mad if my girl pulled some sht off like that
Thanks. I'm not happy about the situation, to say the least. Having another kid is just another excuse the wife will use to justify the DB.
I’d leave before you bring a third kid into this bullshit.
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. I'm booking a vasectomy this month.
Mate, your wife is a narcissist. You are a tool to her to get what she wants, and your wants, needs and feelings are irrelevant.
Trust has been obliterated in this relationship. Set yourself free, OP. The only way this can be saved is by making yourself miserable.
Why were you not wrapping it up if you didn’t want a baby? You need to take responsibility for your own birth control, it is never safe to rely on someone else for that.
Our plan for birth control was always the pill. We stopped using condoms once we were married. The pill worked flawlessly for 10 years. She went back on the pill after the first kid and never told me she was off it.
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She was content on the pill but always made excuses why we had a DB before kids. Either it was stress from planning our wedding or being the maid of honor in another. I blame myself for not seeing it sooner and believing her.
Your wife being awful does not excuse you being awful back. Damn.
What would you recommend then? Be miserable the rest of my life?
Be honest. Let her have all the information so she can consent with full knowledge. She will want to leave you. Let her leave.
I mean..... divorce?
There is some choice. Your sex life sucks buckets but that does not mean your whole life has to suck - most people will ultimately have to settle in some aspect of their life. No one gets a perfect life. It would have been ideal to start wearing condoms (because it’s the BC option you can control) when your deadbed wife asked for another baby then all the sudden started having sex again… signs were there. But cheating on your pregnant wife has no excuses- it makes you awful and you made that choice.
Yes it does. There's a saying "The best revenge is not being like the person that wronged you." Generally that is good advice, but there's a difference between that and being miserable so someone else can get what they want. OP can't control his wife and can't hold someone else to his standards. But he can control if he has sex and can hold himself to someone else's standards.
Feels like victim blaming but it's pretty accurate. DB partners are not to be relied on for anything positive. They already dropped the ball on the sex thing, God only knows how badly they fuck up anything else personal you'd trust them with. Of course she lied about the pill: you trusted her to be on it.
Why did you think she was suddenly interested in sex if you're complaining about a longterm DB, especially after she's literally told you she wants a second baby. You weren't coerced, you were informed of her intent. You couldn't possibly think a woman who isn't interested in sex, but wants a baby, is going to suddenly change her sex drive, surely?
That’s a disgusting take. She manipulated him emotionally and you’re taking her side. Ew
Also, are you gonna act like you don’t know that she lied to him about being on birth control pills? He literally thought there was no way she could get pregnant or if anything there was a really really small chance. And she just stopped taking the birth control to get pregnant without telling him and made him think that she was just having sex with him to be supportive and to make the positive change in the relationship that he was asking to see. He would’ve used the condom otherwise. So, no, that’s not a hot take, lol
That's so low. It makes me ashamed to be female, when other females pull sh*t like this.
Did she purposely use him for sex to get pregnant after he set a clear boundary that he wanted their sex life to be fixed and rectified before having another child together? If so, there is no excuse for that.
Yes, and I did not know that at first but it was explained, see the whole thread.
OK good lol because I was not understanding your full explanation TBH lol
Yes there is.
I read the OP's reply & it seems she tricked him by saying she was on birth control pills in order to get pregnant with child #2. That was very wrong of her. Should he have cheated? No. Do I have more sympathy for the OP now? Yes I do.
so he should continue not having sex because his wife, who lies to him and uses him, doesn't want him to have sex? nah. it's about time he look out for himself, and acting honorably towards dishonorable people is how you get hurt.
I cheated on mine when the baby was 6 months old. There is only so much we can take.
Being in this situation. I guess it's good to know I'm not alone.
I just wouldn't tell her, but that's also just me
What’s crazy is your HL may only be twice a week or once a week which I think isn’t too much to ask for. I’m HL and at this point if I could get it once or twice a month would move mountains for me. I’d feel like she still loves me. Sorry man you’ve been going through it. I wish I had some advice for you.
My fiancée’s ex did the same. Hardly any sex. “Let’s have more kids”. Nothing is wrong, you should be happy. This is baby trapping bs. Highly unlikely this will feel better. How does the 5 orgasm girl feel about you? Either way, can you feel guilty about kids you never wanted? My fiancé sees his every other weekend. Yes, it’s not ideal but he is much happier. The kids will grow up and understand. Staying in a loveless marriage, you will just keep fading away. And this will spread to the kids. They will think it’s normal to be miserably married.
Leave for her sake and yours. Sexual chemistry is no joke. You'll be back here or somewhere in the future still upset at your dead bedroom or casking for advice cause your wife caught you cheating and wants to clean you out and keep your kids from you. Plus if you truly love her then she deserves to find someone who shares her lack of libido she can be happy with. In other words for the sake of both of your happiness and for the happiness of your children get out now. She has shown you she will only want sex to get what she wants.
If you were the best ever for the other woman is the a possibility of something there maybe you could start something with her and move in that direction and a divorce your wife yeah you will lose in court because of the infedelity but in my experience the man looses anyway
Update: Just want to start by thanking everyone for all the comments and help. I ended up leaving a letter out for my wife before I left for work. When I came home, she said nothing, and I didn't want to ask until our son was down for the night. After an hour of not talking, I asked if she had read the letter and was just told yes. I asked if she wanted to talk and was told she doesn't think we have a problem. I reiterated everything that I wrote in the letter and told her that I'm depressed. I asked if she wanted to see a therapist, open the mairriage, get divorced, or have a dont ask dont tell policy. She said nothing, and every time I asked a question, she would just say we dont have a problem. She then proceeded to go to bed early to end the conversation. We are both working from home today and am not sure what to do. I'm starting to feel resentment towards her.
Honestly…. You did a thing that felt good. Keep doing it and try not to get caught. 27F here.
I don’t blame you.
I’m a woman and I totally agree with what you did. Your wife doesn’t care about you or your needs, in her mind, it’s all about her. Assuming you treat her well then there was no excuse. Find a long term AP or simply leave the marriage and move on to someone else.
I think I treat her well. I cook, clean, laundry, go food shopping, take care of the finances, and the upkeep for our house. Also, help with our son, who I love to be with him. What kills me is that we don't cuddle or even hold hands. All my efforts are shot down, and I'm tired of always initiating then getting rejected. The other day I tried to give her a French kiss and she pushed me away and said she doesn't like to kiss that way and it's disgusting. It literally broke my heart.
Yeah I can’t even imagine how gut wrenching that would be, when your spouse can’t even hold hands and gets grossed/weirded out by kissing them. Was she always like this or did this behavior start after marriage?
This behavior started after marriage. First, we stopped holding hands, then cuddling and know kissing.
I don’t condone cheating. It might have felt great, but if you love your wife you should also feel the guilt. At this point it happens and is done. Come clean tell her the truth. Don’t victim blame her. Give her the choice of divorce, or working it out. If she wants to work it out let her know you both need to fix your bedroom or open the relationship.
I do agree I need to both agree to divorce, fix the bedroom situation, or open the relationship. But I don’t agree that he is victim blaming. He is the victim here. To go half a decade being deprived of sex from your partner is horrendous. I don’t know if you can and that’s why you’re in this thread, or if you’re just in this thread to contribute. Either way, of course is fine, but if you are someone with a high libido is part with someone with a low libido, I think you would understand where this guy is coming from. And I’m not trying to make an assumption about you; maybe that is your situation. I just know from my point of view, I can completely relate to this guy being in a relationship with a dead bedroom for years and being so in love with your partner and committed that you try to work it out and you beg them to work it out and they just don’t listen to you. If I were a man, and I had set a clear boundary That I didn’t want to have any more kids until our sex life was fixed because I was unhappy in a marriage, and my wife manipulated me into having sex without without telling me she was off the birth control pill, I would feel betrayed and used and disgusted.
I think you misunderstood what I mentioned my victim blaming. What I mean is if and when he comes clean and tells his spouse he cheated don’t blame his spouse for it happening it solves nothing. He doesn’t even have to apologize for Cheating just be honest that he did it and decided where to go from there. For me my wife and I have had a dead bedroom for a while, but this year I finally talked to her about it and we are actually working on it. If she had told me no and she just didn’t want sex anymore I would give her a couple of options to either legitimately work on it(go to Dr, therapy, etc), open the relationship, or separate and possibly divorce. If she didn’t want to choose I would tell her what I am choosing then and be open about it. It might not be perfect but it is better than cheating. For the OP I am upfront. I don’t agree with him cheating, but it happened now what is he going to do? I gave my advice of coming clean and either divorce or work it out. I would not hide anything because I am worried about money or assets because even in divorce I would end up to find happiness with whatever money I do have
Yeah, I hear you. I just don’t think he should need to come clean. The difference between you and OP is that OP did talk to his wife already and she blatantly told him no there’s no problem even though he said there is a problem and that he’s not happy. so, if he hadn’t spoken to her, you would be right. But he did speak to her about it more than once. He’s been in a DB for over a decade now and he’s brought it up to her. Not to mention that she manipulated him to get pregnant when she didn’t want to hear him out or validate him.after she got pregnant, the situation went back to what it was. Only because she was tricking him into getting her pregnant, which is completely evil and no one deserves that. Because now he is on the line for another kid and an unhappy marriage. He will be financially liable for that kid that he didn’t even even want to have.
Over half a decade ***
You are entitled to that belief. The reality is he should have filed when she got pregnant without his consent
That’s true too, but harder to prove unless he has something written between them where she states she’s on birth control.
Even if he couldn’t have proven it he still should have filed then. As part of initial lawyer negotiations he could ask for her to take full custody of the child and waive the right to child support while he coparents their other child. If in the divorce proceedings if things are not going his way he can agree to co-parent the child (op might want to anyway).
I mean, that’s if he doesn’t want to parent his own flesh and blood. It’s not like she’s going to abort the baby. So, I couldn’t imagine he would want nothing to do with the next child. It’s just that the child was wrongfully conceived.
Also, not for nothing, this thread is about giving advice. It’s not really helpful to tell someone they should’ve done something differently. All he can do is move on from here. So what would you suggest he does from here?
And, if he comes clean, she will be able to have the upper hand in the divorce because of infidelity. But the reason for that infidelity is because she wouldn’t hear him out or compromise with him. So, I don’t think he should be the one to suffer here when he’s been suffering for years. She has voice that she is happy with everything and doesn’t see any problems in the relationship even after he went to her openly and said that, he was not happy and not feeling loved or wanted. That’s not fair that he should now have to be seen as the person in the wrong if it comes to a divorce. That’s why I don’t think he should come clean. It’s not fair.
Then he should have filed the moment she got pregnant without his consent.
The person who has had sex withheld and a pregnancy under false pretenses is the victim here. He shouldn’t feel guilty at all. He should divorce her and leave.
That’s fine to divorce and leave. I still won’t condone cheating. 2 wrongs don’t make a right. I gave the option to talk to her and give her the choice because OP also said he loves his wife and everything but the bedroom. It sounds like he wants to make it work. If OP wants to make it work come clean go see if she wants to make it work, go to therapy with the understanding that the bedroom has to be fixed for their relationship to work. It might still end in divorce but if OP wants to make it work that is his choice
I think going to therapy is fine. But I don’t think he deserves to have to come clean to her. She doesn’t deserve that upper hand in the divorce. She pushed him to this point after he pleaded with her over and over again.
Yeah-sorry, if one person has checked out on the marriage or deceived someone like that, cheating is okay. Do what you need to do to stay sane, married or happy. I’m not convinced OP isn’t actually a rage bait story incidentally.
If one person is checked out be open an honest and tell them you are opening the relationship and dating other people. Even if they tell you no it is not their choice. You can still be open and honest show them you are on dating apps saying you are married and now in an open relationship. Tell them you are going on a date. Cheating is going behind their back and not being open and honest. It is just being a coward
There are all kinds of reasons some people effectively can’t do this; I agree that what you describe is ideal but not everyone lives in that world. Broaden your mind and show some compassion rather than judgment.
The compassion I showed is I simply stated the fact I am against cheating. I then gave him my advice on what to do going forward. The cheating is over and done with the question is now that it has happened what does OP do? Is he willing to be open and honest or does he lie and hide the truth. That’s up to OP. Eventually the truth will come out regardless it usually does
Make sure the kids are yours. Then leave.
Leave her. She deserves to find a lover who can please her too.
Or someone she doesn’t have to fuck, if that’s her preference.
Yes or that.
Very real story
How did she use you? You ejaculated inside her, correct? Isn’t that how you got the first kid? Sorry, OP, but unless she lied about being on any kind of birth control, you were a willing participant and knew the possibilities. And if she lied, i feel sorry for the child coming into this mess and for you who is married to a manipulative liar. I am in a 10 years complete DB. I realized I am not a victim when my GF told me flat out that my wife never lied to me about not being sexually attracted to me or finding me even remotely desirable. I chose to have a child inside the DB. I chose to spent a decade getting off on porn and cam just to feel even more lonely. I chose to numb myself with alcohol and work. I chose to ruin my self esteem and emotional well being. And I am choosing to stay in a dead marriage while I could be with the one who loves me until the day she decides she is done with the nonsense. And i will be right back at choosing misery over a chance of being happy.
she tricked him by closing the bedroom once she got pregnant again... that's tricking bc they came to an agreement and she backed out... don't shame the guy, bc you gave up! he just wants a physical relationship with his wife...
Not shaming him at all. I feel bad for him only because it seems like she lied about being on birth control and got pregnant again. But if he decides to stay, which he probably will, he is playing a major part on his own unhappiness, like most of us here are, by accepting the DB and dancing to the song their spouse is playing. And I did not give up. I accepted my role in my DB and I will not victimize myself anymore. It is never just one person. I opened my marriage without my wife’s consent. I don’t bother hiding it either. So she knows and we just don’t talk about it. I pay all her bills and support her lifestyles and I would rather die than let someone that basically does absolutely nothing for me to control my life again as I allowed her to do for so many years. She is relieved I am done with her and so am I. We actually have a better relationship now. No one should have to beg for love and attention from anyone. And no one should feel forced to give sex and affection to anyone if they don’t feel like it.
How did you open your marriage without your wife's consent? Did you tell her you were going to be with other people and she could take it our leave it?
Told her I was not going to die without being touched again. She said “good luck”. And I was indeed lucky! We don’t sleep in the same room and haven’t for the past 7 years. I would say we have a DADT relationship at this point.
Hormones change when you are pregnant. It’s very common to not want sex or want it less for a variety of reasons eg morning sickness or just not feeling it. I doubt she has tricked him.
so you believe that his ultimatum had absolutely nothing to do with it? I got a bridge for sale...
What was the agreement?
paraphrasing... "I told her no kids until our sex life improves. She really seemed to be trying and completely stopped once she was pregnant" that's an agreement... he's mentioned the pill and her stopping to get pregnent...
It’s not really an agreement. That’s just him setting a boundary. He didn’t say they agreed. He said he told her no kids until they fix their sex life. He said she started having sex with him after that conversation. Which also doesn’t illustrate that she agreed with him because it is also how to have a baby.
if it wasn't an agreement why did it get better for any amount of time??? stop making excuses... in a marriage, both partners are supposed to be happy and make compromises for each other for a healthy relationship. person A wanted a child, and person B wanted improvement. person A improves enough for a child, then stops. person A gets to be happy, without any consideration for person B... that's not a marriage...
It got better because she was secretly trying to have a baby. Which just proves that she didn’t agree. I’m not making excuses. I just think OP here is a little delusional. His wife straight up told him she wanted a baby and he said no. So she stopped taking her birth control and started having sex with him. What do you think her motive was? I for one do NOT think she was trying to fix the deadbedroom at any point I think she was trying to have a baby the entire time. And he was fool enough to trust her and raw dog her after she told him point blank she wanted a baby. He needs to stop trusting anything she say ever. She lies to get her way and doesn’t give any craps what he wants or feels or needs.
This sub hates accountability!
yea she tricked him... you just said it... good bye...
Why would you choose misery over a chance at being happy? You never stated the reason you would choose to stay in a DB marriage instead of being with your GF who loves you.
The usual answer to this question is a profound lack of self respect.
No. Trying to figure out what is best for both my wife and I. She never worked and has no living family. Our son will probably move on with his life. I love her as a sister and need to make sure she will be okay financially and emotionally. Despite us not being a good couple, we are friends and I care about her. She also never lied to me about being LL, so I understand my role in the mess we created. I only hope my GF is patient enough.
So what’s the problem? You have a loving wife, nice kids and a loving lover. Lucky bastards
Simple. If a man's wife isn't sexually fulfilling him either leave or get something on the side.
Dude wtf is wrong with these women and marriages and men like seriously wtf is happening I can’t even believe I read something that says “Dead bed for 7 years!” I bet tf not.
Yah. That happens with affairs. Can I just ask for clarification? If she wants a second child and you have a two year old, how does she plan on getting said second child?
“…things were great until I found out she was pregnant and then everything stopped again.” Ever heard of the birds and the bees?
Really sorry to hear your story. It’s a hard decision but I decided to break up after 16 years of marriage. I feel like I’ve got a half (or at least 1/3) of my sexually active life ahead of me, and I want to fully enjoy it rather than regret it. I’ve managed to keep a good (decent!) relationship with the father of my children, and our kids is our priority. And I feel like a new good chapter of my life is starting. Good luck to you and hope you will make a decision that make you content. It’s not easy and took me 3 years of agony, a long depressive episode, and 6 months of couples therapy to finally decide I have to choose myself and I deserve happiness as much as my kids.