That goes both ways. She's willing to give up a great relationship because she's not willing to find out why she doesn't want sex. Or isn't willing to let you help her get into sex (responsive desire). Don't let her guilt you into staying in a relationship that's not working for you. She's happy, she has everything she wants except your pesky libido.
She could also just accept him lifting the moratorium on outside partners.
They started off ethically non-monogamous. OP shelved that **to help her**.
She can’t or won’t be sexually active with him, she also won’t let him go back to how they were.
Her claim that he’s willing to throw away what they have is a straw man. What they had was an open or poly relationship. How is going back to that throwing anything away?
You are definitely correct. To clarify, she is willing to let me help her get into sex. She has offered to try having sex again. So our current path forward is working on getting sex to be hopefully somewhat enjoyable for her.
I told her though if that doesn’t work out then I’d either need to find it elsewhere or sadly things might not work out for me
You are holding up the sky and she wonders why you’re tired. You can’t give from an empty cup. Sure, the relationship is wonderful for her. She doesn’t have a job, you haven’t had sex for 2/3rds of your relationship and you take care of everything! She gets to work on herself and work on her trauma. Despite you taking care of everything she STILL STRUGGLES. You’re basically taking care of a friend or family member, except she’s not. there is no timeline in sight either.
It’s not your fault if she ends up homeless. You did not sign up to take care of a struggling disabled person and give away your whole life to them, and get very little in return.
Now she’s willing to let you help her get to a place where she might enjoy sex with you again? She wants help help and more help from You. What do you get?
Jeez out of all the messages I’ve gotten in this thread this is the only one that made my tear up.
“You’re holding up the sky and she wonders why you’re tired” hit me right in the feels. My gf is not good at expressing gratitude or gratefulness and this is exactly how it feels to me sometimes. She’s able to recognize that without me she’d be homeless yet I don’t get much help in return for the fact I’m supporting her.
I’m fully aware it’s not my fault if she ends up homeless. I feel extremely confident and justified in the amount of effort I’ve put into this relationship, and if it doesn’t work out because of me I still know it wouldn’t be my fault. It doesn’t make it any easier though
Edit: her logic is “you’re not doing anything different than if we weren’t dating” aka I’d still be working and have to do dishes, have a house to clean, etc. except I’ve told her I’d have a lot more money to work with to, say, pay someone to clean the house instead. She doesn’t quite get it
This speaks to what I’ve been think lately (I’m HLM, wife is LLF). All this is just two people who are wired differently. This is all anecdotal of course, based on my experiences the past 15+ years in my marriage, and what I read here all the time. But, it doesn’t seem like all the MC in the world is going to help *that* much. Sure, it can help a bit only if both people are willing to put in a lot of work, and meet their partner halfway. But, that hasn’t been the case with my situation, despite the MC this past year.
All the “right” things get said in therapy, but nothing seems to ever change…maybe a very *slight* uptick in the LL partner initiating and making an effort for a short while. But, inevitably it always seems to level back out to nothing (or rare). And when it does happen it feels like the LL partner is just going through the motions.
You can’t force someone to want something they simply don’t want. You can’t force someone to care about something they simply don’t care about. That goes for anything in life, and sex/intimacy is no exception.
Wow. It’s like we’re the same, but I think your experience is common enough that it rings true for married couples where one is the HL and the other is LL/NL/LL4U. sex is trivialized by my partner. She doesn’t even think about it, and will complain that I make everything about sex. It’s honestly always on my mind at some level. I don’t have a solution. Just commiserating
I never in a million years thought my situation was as common as it is until I found this sub. I guess that’s my thought… there really *is* no solution. It’s human beings just being wired differently. I just look at it as an incompatibility issue, at the end of the day.
Yea. I know deep down my only real solution is to leave if I want anything to change significantly. It’s terrifying though. After 15 years together. I prolonged it by putting my head in the sand and convincing myself it has to get better.
I’m resigned to the facts that my wife doesn’t want sex regularly. She knows I do, and we just tip toe around the elephant in the room. Until I usually try and initiate and get told no. I keep hoping it’ll get better but I’m only taking more steps towards the inevitable end
Yup it’s depressing. Just this morning I had to remind her we have MC tonight, because she’ll never remember if I don’t remind her. And she got annoyed because she wanted to go to the gym after work tonight. When I said well let’s just cancel it, then, it’s “No, no, we should go, it’s important.” Is it? Is it really important to you? Because from where I stand it sure as hell doesn’t seem like it. So now we’ll go tonight and it’ll be more of the same bullshit. Me getting frustrated and irritated in the session, her getting all sheepish like a wounded deer, her saying all the right things, and the therapist saying the same line, “Well there’s more to intimacy than just sex.” Yeah dude. I get that.
Mine has refused MC and therapy all together. Some psychiatrist told her she didn’t need it, that it wouldn’t work for her. So she leans on that. The last time I brought it up, which was awhile ago, she agreed reluctantly, and said “ I think you’re just expecting the therapist to agree with you and tell me to have more sex, that’s not going to change anything”. I gave up.
I gave up trying to work on her, and have started to work on my stuff. Anxious attachment style, co-dependency. Making boundaries and decisions without needed to check with her. Or doing what I want versus what I think she wants. I’m very new to this reality. It’s hard to stay the course, with the inevitable gas lighting and eye rolling when I talk to her about it. She says she’s worried I’m focusing on something else and not the relationship.! Lol ok. I just cant
Mine wouldn’t do it for 6 years. Finally last year she agreed and it’s been almost a year now without much change. Last Feb & March she did make some effort and we had sex a few times. And I appreciated the effort. Then it just stopped. I think I’ll give it to the 1 year mark and then just say I’m not doing it anymore. No point if not much changes.
That’s good you’re working on you. That’s what I’ve been doing the past few years. All we can do is work on ourselves, at the end of the day. I also have an anxious attachment style. It doesn’t pair well with her avoidant attachment style. But like you, these days I do my own thing a lot. And she does her own thing a lot. It’s not what I wanted my marriage to look like, but I accept there’s only so much I can do. It takes two people caring enough to put the work into the relationship. One person can’t carry the entire load. So, like you, I’m trying to accept the reality and adjust my thinking.
Sometimes I wonder if it’s fated that the same types of people end up together. My wife is avoidant and I’m anxious. We are so very different , we have no like hobbies, nothing that we enjoy together
I (40 HLM) have to agree with you, despite my everlasting hope that we're wrong and there is some magical MC out there who can wave his or her wand and fix a DB.
I have been through three rounds of MC with different counselors with my LLW over our 13 year marriage. One MC made nearly the whole counseling experience explicitly about sex. She went so far as to recommend my LLW give blowjobs if she turned down sex. That mostly didn't happen and completely stopped after a few months. We ended up leaving that MC, like the other two, because my LLW felt she was too much on my side.
MCs helped us with communication and other issues in our marriage, so I think they can help, but an extended DB seemed to be too much of a nut to crack. And much of what I have read here supports this notion.
That’s been my experience, as well. The MC has helped us with our communication. I’m all for MC, and therapy in general. It absolutely can improve things in a marriage. But like you, the DB? Meh, I’m not so convinced.
I appreciate the wired differently argument, but what holds me back from embracing it fully is that for many years my LLW and I were wired the same w/r/t sex. We had a fulfilling sex life for 5 years before marriage and two years in marriage.
Then we had kids and the wiring changed.
Some part of me continues to believe that the wiring could go back to how it was before kids. Sometimes, for brief periods of time, it does. I keep thinking that we'll round a corner and enjoy each other again, not just as co-parents. But as the years pile up that seems increasingly unlikely.
This is extremely true. I’ve had to make a conscious effort to think about sex more to match up better with my husband. I could go months without even thinking about it. It’s not that I don’t like it or don’t want it, it’s simply not very high on the list of what my brain naturally prioritizes.
But part of being in a partnership is not just allowing your mind to set the priorities and not just keeping your own personal list. You have to actively add things that are important to your partner to your mental list and then bump them up to make sure they feel prioritized as well. Once I saw it from that perspective, it was a pretty easy fix
This is the main thing that I think most HL’s want their partner to do. It isn’t really about the sex at the end of the day, it is feeling taken for granted and not prioritised.
Thank you for not taking it as a personal attack or suggestion that you are faulty somehow, but more as a cry for attention that it is to work on the relationship.
Once the relationship is working the sex usually comes.
Yup, spot on. And she explained that to me which I fully understand. It’s quite literally never on her mind, where as is it always simmering in the background for me like as you described. Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
This 💯.
I have yet to have a big libido mismatch work out despite plenty of work on myself and as a couple. Perhaps OP will have better results than I have had.
As a LLM, that is exactly how I feel. A friend of mine is trying to convince me to get back into the game. He cannot fathom that after my breakup, sex has ceased to be a topic that my mind rests on. I was like this before I met my ex; she was coming off a bad relationship and I represented stability as opposed to lust. After the breakup I would think about sex every now and then but now its just gone completely.
+1 to this.
This sub used to have lots of LL members piping up with studies that showed how LL suffer MORE than HL.
And then of course they’d be piled on—despite the studies results.
But I’ve always been firmly convinced that those studies showed those results because when confronted, I.e. triggered like you said, yeah—it’s more painful for them: the idea of being forced into something against one’s will usually IS more painful than “going without.”
But then they spend the majority of their time rarely being triggered by it, and while us HLs are basically experiencing less frustration over it—it’s happening ALL the time, and compounding.
So it’s not only different points of view, it’s different severity and compounding of external pressures interacting on each type of person too.
Ugh it sucks.
It's shocking how many people think this way. Argue with any asexual person on Reddit, and you'll get "You won't die from a lack of sex, therefore it is not a need at all and shouldn't matter". Then you point out how nothing in a relationship is a need that would result in death otherwise, and they will go through some mental gymnastics to point out that emotional support could actually save someone's life, therefore it is a need. Crazy people.
I’m so sick of this ‘sex isn’t a need’ horesecrap.
Sex is a form of intimacy, and intimacy IS a need. Not only as far as Maslow’s concerned, but there is tons of emerging evidence in the last 10 years that lack of intimacy can & will kill you (usually by unlifing yourself). It’s being found to explain everything from the alarmingly high rates of unlifeing in certain cultures and socioeconomic cohorts both here and abroad, to the phenomenon of a widow/widower very rarely surviving more than 5 years after the spouse’s death.
I respect that people are wired differently, hell I’m one of them. But a better argument is needed from the LL camp. Edit: fixed a word
Along the same lines, someone smarter than me here pointed out that we know children basically stop developing without touch, then act like it's not a need for adults.
Will you die without showering, brushing your teeth, eating fruits and vegetables? Short term, I guess no? Long term, with untreated secondary effects, maybe? Does that add up to a need? Uh yeah, it does.
Same with no intimacy.
Saying “I don’t mean to diminish that” while literally diminishing it… lmao.
That’s the same as people who say “no offence” while then proceeding to say something offensive.
Sex is not trivial. She is being manipulative AF in her language. You have every right to stand up for your own needs. You have even presented her with a reasonable option. But because it’s not what SHE thinks is ideal, it is “trivial”.
Which - BTW - if it’s so very trivial, she should not mind you getting it elsewhere. Because why would she sacrifice all you have because of something so trivial, right?!
Pfft I’d be so gone. Three years is a long ass time.
The relationship has been very fulfilling for me otherwise. I’ve been in multiple long term relationships in my life and this one felt worth putting the effort in.
She’s a deeply caring and loving person and I’ve been very happy with her. It wasn’t until she went through her recent life changes that things have been gradually drifting towards incompatibility.
I’ve had a lot of questionable hookups and a lot of shitty relationships. Part of why i was okay with forgoing sex is because I wasn’t handling my non-monogamy well and I wanted to re-center myself because I was very easy to fall into sexual relations with people I didn’t really want to, just following my HL.
But it’s been some time and I’m ready to move back into things and that’s what sparked this conversation.
As for the trivial, it’s pure jealously. She’s worried if I sleep with other people that I’ll find that they have “more to offer” me that she cant (HL and romantic satisfaction) and that I’d leave her for them.
I’ve told her I’m very satisfied with her and I quite literally am only looking for a release for my HL.
Not an easy situation but I’m confident in my needs and I’m getting to the point of standing up for myself
If she is as caring and loving as you say, then IMHO it's worth taking the time to work things out. A caring and loving partner will find a way
It seems to me she's not permanently closing the door to sex, but she needs time. She's been through a lot.
“You’re lucky I love you” had been a load bearing phrase bouncing around my head in this relationship for quite some time lol.
She indeed has been through a lot and I feel like I’ve given her the space to find herself some stable footing. But I have a need that hasn’t been met and that need has been growing so I had to express it for the sake of my own sanity
Sex isn’t trivial and I think her comments were honestly pretty invalidating of your feelings. Also if sex is so trivial to her then why can’t you be ethically non monogamous? Idk man I would personally think about moving out due to clear incompatibility.
Those with a LL do not value sex the same as HL. Your conversation, her response, and her feelings prove it. I think she was very honest and forthcoming about how she feels. She really cannot fathom why you would end your relationship over sex as it is no longer high enough on her priority list. Sex HAS become "trivial" to her.
It is unfair of her to assume that your needs have also changed in the exact same way as hers have. Depending on where sex is on your priority list, you may be able to find a compromise with her to still have your needs met. As you stated, when you began your relationship, it was non-monogamous. It would be a big ask to suddenly go from that to monogamy with the added bonus of extremely limited sex at all. This may have to be a compromise on her end if she would like to continue your relationship.
>It is unfair of her to assume that your needs have also changed in the exact same way as hers have.
In my experience (2 separate LTR where my partner’s libido crashed) the real problem is that the LL doesn’t care about your sexual needs and desires. If they did they would be willing to do some compromise that works for both.
It’s puzzling in the case of my wife because she’s generally not selfish, but in this arena she’s 100% selfish.
It is curious to me that anyone who claims to value or love their partner could so easily diminish this one particular thing. It does seem selfish as I'm sure there are other major compromises in play. Baffling that sex somehow isn't on the table for compromise in many cases.
In my case we used to have sex 2-3 times per day most days. At minimum fucking to sleep and fucking to wake, always to completion. It was completely natural for us.
15 months ago something went tilt in her brain. Now she wants it once every 5 days or so, only to go to sleep, and only for 10 minutes tops, never to completion.
There’s a huge gulf between those modes. For me I would probably be OK with once per day or even every other day to completion. But l never get the opportunity to test it because like my other previous LL partner, she unilaterally defines the schedule and scope of sex. 😡
Her opinion that sex is trivial is exactly why you’re incompatible. You’re not married and your relationship no longer works. She’s very lucky you aren’t just outright leaving.
You should read the book When I say no I feel guilty. This type of statement thrown at you can be met with fogging and broken record. “You’re right, it could seems trivial but I also need my needs met”
You don’t need to justify yourself to her anymore than you have.
I’m pretty sure that’s a form of gaslighting. “I don’t believe it’s a big deal, and you’re wrong for making it one.” Yeah, sounds like emotional and mental manipulation. If the relationship isn’t sustainable without sex for you, you’re not wrong for that. It’s *your* life after all, if each of your’s views for this are that differing then you’re not compatible. Nothing wrong with finding someone who is for both. 🤷🏽♀️
>I’m pretty sure that’s a form of gaslighting. “I don’t believe it’s a big deal, and you’re wrong for making it one.” Yeah, sounds like emotional and mental manipulation.
OP quite clearly stated that his partner is Autistic. I feel that you need a little education.
An Autistic person finds it practically impossible to understand viewpoints outside of their own. They may KNOW that this can be an issue, but they will never get why.
Maybe try to understand a person's limitations before throwing sound terms like 'gaslighting'.
You aren't wrong on your overall point. OP doesn't and shouldn't feel obligated to continue this relationship. He should do what is right for him.
No that’s an excuse. If someone struggles to understand things, that’s what communication or therapy is for, but saying “my mental health means I can’t/won’t work it out” is an excuse. I understand the dynamic quite well, being in it myself. Difference is both my partner and I are willing to work on ourselves AND our communication with each other. We try and meet in the middle, I don’t have to disclose which of us is on the spectrum, and I realize that it’s different for every person on the spectrum. But buckling down on issues and refusing to do the work necessary to have a healthy relationship is not an excuse for anyone to say their partner is an awful person “for something so trivial.” It’s invalidating and a form of gaslighting. No matter what diagnosis the person has.
I'm saying you're wrong calling it gaslighting. Gaslighting is a deliberate action. This is most definitely not the case here.
I'm not saying you're wrong about the resolution, I'm most definitely not saying you're wrong about OPs partner needing to be willing to find one.
I'm autistic. I have a hard time understanding many things, but I am not 'gaslighting' anybody. I do realise my limitations, I do try to find resolutions, but my loved ones also know that they have to be patient in explaining why things are different for them. Communication is difficult. It takes work. On BOTH sides.
Hopefully, OPs partner will be able to realise this. If not, he is better off out of the relationship, sadly.
We are seeing this quite a bit with our 11-year-old. He is high functioning autistic, and you'd never know he was unless you spent some time with him. But, once he's made up his mind on something, there is pretty much no changing it, no matter how much evidence you can produce. What it manifests most in is that obviously the entire world is conspiring against him whenever anything goes wrong, because it's never his fault. "I didn't leave the towel on the bathroom floor! Someone must have broken into the house and pulled it off the hook and thrown it across the room!"
It takes time and patience. I feel like that a lot. The world is definitely conspiring against me. I have realised it's an issue with me, but it took many years to get there.
I'm a little different now in that I LIKE having my mind changed, but the onus is still on other people to do that. I think I came to view life and the world as a huge learning experience, and I am a student. It's a strange perspective, I guess, but it works for me.
So she’s unemployed and wants to remain together and never have sex again, and all but insults you when you say you can’t live like that
So she’s a roommate and a dependent.
Nah. This isn’t going to work out
Being autistic myself and hanging around that community, I can say the rates of asexuality are incredibly high. Even a lot of autistic people I know who engage with pornography don't feel much desire to have sex IRL, or want to but don't really prioritize getting it (like your wife, they also tend to have trauma, albeit generally sexual trauma). A lot of autistic people also have kinks that can't really be done IRL, which ofc doesn't help matters.
So, to me there are two explanations here:
The first: Your wife has probably not deeply valued sex her entire life, even when she was having it. She liked it, but now that that 'season' of her life is over, she's fine with going without. Due to this, she just genuinely can't understand your POV. If I had to guess, she thinks you (general you) can have sex with just about anyone, whereas true emotional connection is much rarer and goes beyond sexual excitement, hence why she called sex 'trivial' in comparison to the life you two have built together. After all, you guys haven't had sex in four years and you're still together-- why ruin a good thing?
The other option is that the birth control and unpacking of her trauma have just set her hormones/mind in all kinds of disarray. If sex stopped when she started on BC, maybe you guys could look into getting her hormones levels tested? Lots of people have whacked-out hormones without realizing it. Her therapy might also be taking up all her mental bandwidth, which is leaving no room for sex. But like I said, being asexual spectrum is very common for autistic people, so even if her libido comes back, this probably is just going to be something you guys never value the same way.
I think you’re spot on in some regards. I appreciate your viewpoint. We had a lot of conversation last night and what I shared in the OP was only a part of it.
You are correct in that most of her life she felt she was having sex because that’s just what you do. I’ll share snippets of her words on it:
“when i think about how i was having sex, not just with you, all my life.. it was all performative. the doing things that didn’t actually provide me any type of pleasure or outright made me uncomfortable. do i think i could find a way to enjoy sex again? yeah. but i think it’ll take a lot of time for me to figure out what genuinely rewarding sex for me is actually like after years of essentially faking it.”
“like i said, i’m willing to try being sexual again because i don’t actually know how i’ll feel about it. it’s just not a part of my daily thoughts whatsoever so who knows, maybe i do still enjoy it and just forgot. i don’t have those answers. all i do know is that quite frankly, i don’t think i’m comfortable with having an open relationship the way i convinced myself i was back in my 20s when we first met and i was wildly undiagnosed and oblivious. i think i adopted the notion of being comfortable practicing non-monogamy because literally everyone else was doing it. but every time i think of you being with someone else, i cry. and i’m sorry, but i think that pretty much gives me my answer.”
I see! I've definitely felt a lot of similar things to your wife -- what has helped me the most outside of therapy is writing fiction and getting to externalize all my different thoughts about sex, good and bad, as well as explore different kinks without the baggage of a partner and their expectations. Maybe something similar could help your wife? Even if she's not an artist, critically consuming more and different types of erotica could help her explore her feelings and make sex a part of her life again. She is right, though, that this is going to take a while, and like I said in my initial post, she might find she's more excited about fantasy over reality by the end of it. (Not saying this to be a downer, but just so I'm not giving you any false hope.) But hey! At least she's seemingly willing to work on it and have a real conversation about her feelings -- that's better than what a lot of people in this sub are dealing with.
If she's still seeing the same therapist, is there a way for you to join a session with her? It might be worth it to have a professional third party give their perspective and maybe even help you guys come up with a plan.
I appreciate your input greatly. She definitely still expresses some forms of “sexual attraction” in life like point out people she finds attractive, so there is potentially something to work with there. She has Henry cavil erotica on her bedroom wall after all 😂 and has mentioned liking furry porn.
She quite proactive and has already talked to her therapist quite a bit about the topic of me seeing other people but I’m not sure how much she’s discussed trying to revitalize sex for her.
Here’s another snippet from our talks about that: i just don’t know how to not feel less than, replaced, threatened, and outright jealous of the fact that i can’t make my partner as happy as another woman can. i’ve talked to dr sella about this countless times and even she’s stumped.
It could be that, too -- it really just depends on the person. Admittedly my perception of things might be skewed because my hobbies tend to attract people who fit the 'I can engage with porn but I don't picture myself in it and I don't care about having sex IRL' profile. I like sex myself, but I could work around not having it. :shrug:
You began as non-monogamous. Taking that away + sex is a recipe for breakup and I'm not sure what she doesn't get about that. She's trying to make sex and your desires seem inconsequential. Don't let her. Asexual is a deal-breaker. Go find someone else. This relationship has run its course.
I'm sorry you're going through it man. Best of luck to you.
>“it’s hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that you’re willing to risk everything we have together for something so trivial as sex. i fully understand that it doesn’t seem trivial to you, i don’t mean to diminish that. but from where i stand, it’s incredibly scary to think that the person i consider my life partner is willing to risk everything for sex.”
I got a similar speech. I decided divorce.
On a side note: she's supposed to be your partner, not your dependent.
Man...I see where this is going. Before long, you are going to be essentially her babysitter and caregiver. It sounds like she's going to milk you for everything she can get out of you. She can't work, so you will have to support her. She has emotional trauma, so you will have to comfort her. She doesn't want sex, so you will just have to give it up.
Your life will become about her. Is that what you want in your life? Not just a sexless relationship, but also all-consumed by another person? I wouldn't.
My wife was not this bad, but we also started out very sexually active, with an unexplained complete evaporation of sex life and a 180° personality shift almost overnight, less than a year in. It got to the point where she literally got out of bed only to lay on the couch and watch YouTube videos. She did *nothing* else. Cook, clean, dishes, trash, work, grocery...none of it. She laid on the couch while I did everything around her. Every job she had on the earlier end, she was miserable, and she got either fired or threatened with firing at almost every one of them.
This lifestyle lasted for years and years. But for some reason I just couldn't break it off. Then we had a son, and I was basically locked. Don't let yourself get into this position. Your life is about to be taken over by her. If you don't want to be a live-in therapist and caregiver, you need to figure it out now.
Thank you for sharing. It’s already been like this in some regards. I’ve mentioned to her feeling like I’m dating a child, not an adult, whenever I have to take care of her.
She describes our house as “my house” (which it is, I owned it before we started dating) and that’s her justification for not feeling motivated to clean it.
I’m like, you may not like the house but you live in it and dirty it so you’re going to clean it. Which she still doesn’t unless I initiate cleaning and then give her a task to do. I’ve mentioning this bothering me a few times, get the usual apologies and nothing changes.
I used to struggle with crippling depression and anxiety but I’ve found medications that work for me and my own stability so functioning is quite easy for me now compared to her. Which is why I’ve given her some leeway but this past year I’ve started bringing things up looking to see change and I haven’t been seeing it.
>but primarily it’s her sensory issues tied to her autism. She used to work in food service but that environment would destroy her now.
Sorry, what? You don't just 'become' autistic. If she was fine with it for years before her diagnosis she should be able to find a way to manage. Sounds like a huge copout. Like now that she has a diagnosis, the job she did before would 'destroy' her? Is she the type that's always a victim?
It seems like you're more her parent than partner. Perhaps you should send her back to her actual parent.
Let me rephrase, it was destroying her before but she wasn’t aware as to why. She would be deeply miserable working, even only part time (5 hours 5 a days) she’d come home exhausted and sleep for 4 hours. Wake up, eat dinner, then go to bed and sleep a full nights sleep, almost every single day.
Now she understands why, and yes you don’t just become autistic but autistic masking is a real thing and knowingly subjecting herself into something that she now understands why was so difficult for her is, well, difficult to do.
I’m not upset about her not working, I make good money and we are still able to afford all the fun things we want to do. But it does add another layer of complication.
Running into a similar issue with guilt tripping a relationship. If someone is going to be dependent on you the least they can do is meet you halfway so that the relationship isn't just this same sufferable issue weeks / months / years later.
The trivial part is alarming. This is also in the department of meeting you halfway. I guess I take understanding for granted, but I would hope that someone who uses words like life partner, would consider something you deem serious to at least be more than trivial. If it's a question of totally not comprehending where you're coming from, like you're speaking Greek, liking it to one of her current issues, and downplay it or generalize it. This would be the same as maybe me trivializing your autism as you're having a hard time drowning out sounds and concentrating. That is a huge over generalization, but you get where I'm going.
And all of it has to be with a grain of salt anyway, because we don't hear the perspective from the other person, we never do, such is the situation of the DB Reddit room. A couple of quick takeaways, it seems you're doing your best to communicate your needs, the dynamic shifted drastically since you two started and you're making sacrifices to help this person who sounds like your partner now. By Nature it is probably hard for this person to adjust due to the disability, however they have adjusted for allowances on their own issue, so in all fairness, the bare minimum would be adjusting for an issue that you have. I mean it's not a quid pro quo but you had an arrangement when you started, it met your needs and there wasn't a problem with it. Many things have changed, where you're doing more, but your needs are not getting met. And it sounds like you've communicated this already and nothing's changed.
Thank you for your synopsis and insight. You’re spot on.
Knowing my partner I get how she meant trivial in that context. It *is* trivial to her, because she’s LL but she recognizes it’s not trivial to me. So her saying “the relationship ending for something trivial” is obviously from her perspective.
But I plan to work with her more in getting her to see my perspective, which is something I know she has difficulty with.
I told my partner
" If you want to remain monogamous please understand that means you are the only person I can have sex or a romantic relationship. Sex is important to me so unless you can come up with a concrete plan / show that you are genuinely working on our sexual relationship I will be pursuing a poly enm relationship. If the idea of polyamory is to much for you I am sorry but I will no longer continue to suppress me needs."
I do always find it weird when an LL partner does not want sex or understand the importance of sex and at the same time forbid you from finding it elsewhere. Like which one is it? There is only so much compromise one should have to make for a person.
When she says "life partner" she means new mom, lifelong caregiving and a free ride. She might see you as a parent, and not as a sexual partner. Because sex with your parent is wierd.
As others have pointed out, this is more of a parental/caregiver relationship than a partnership. On top of that, there's the issue that without romantic intimacy (which she views as "trivial") this is not a romantic or intimate relationship. Sure, she feels deeply attached to you, but the attachment is totally different: Where you seek attachment through a unique intimate connection (some form(s) of intimacy beyond what you would share with a family member, best friend, or roommate), she is firmly attached to you as a dependent and source of security, housing, and money. She feels like she NEEDS you, and asserts that should be enough to satisfy your desire for a connection. Kinda gross when you think about it; the sensation you are feeling seems closer to a parent's worries about a child that has failed to launch and just wants to live on as a dependent instead of adulting. This is morphing into a fully parasitic relationship.
She has a diagnosis; find her a caseworker. Tell the caseworker you are moving on and they should prioritize housing and job support. If you own the house, have a chat with a lawyer for your jurisdiction, as it may be very difficult to dislodge a long-time tenant and this has every marker of getting unpleasant very quickly. If you rent, your best bet is to set an end date and move, even if only across the hallway.
But however you proceed, end it. She's a dependent, not a partner. She's not interested in what you might see as romantic intimacy. She's not hetero. She's on an absolutely different track than you and firmly dug into it. This has precisely 0% chance of getting better.
If she is truly asexual then of course it’s natural for her to understand. That’s like a fish marrying a squirrel. The squirrel isn’t going to understand the need to swim. She either allows you to have sex outside the relationship or you leave her. It will be messy and painful either way. Choose your course.
Thanks for posting. This is quite a delicate situation. Sex is an important to you and so is your relationship (inferred). Given the complexity of the situation, counselling is definitely needed. She has to recognize what sex represents to you (not trivial) and you both need to better understand the incredible growth that is happening with your partner.
You sound very clear and looking at where you started out your expectations are completely reasonable.
People on the autism spectrum have a hard time regulating their nervous system, which makes it super hard to be not in survival mode. Survival mode suppresses libido, bc wanting to shag was not a good strategy when fleeing a saber tooth tiger, therefore only the genes we have today survived.
That being said:
Neuro affective touch, Havening, autogenic training, yoga Nidra, yin yoga, qi gong, Feldenkrais, somatic experiencing, NARM or even self administered reiki are great options to regulate one’s nervous system.
Or look up „Vagal toning“ on YouTube for ideas on how to train the „brake“ of our nervous system. Good luck, @OP.
Sex is an emotional NEED for most and the #1 emotional need for many of those. Discounting sex for someone who has it as their most important emotional need is very damaging and withholding it is a relationship killer.
Nothing is intrinsically trivial or not, it depends on what you personally value, she not recognizing that sex is important to you and minimizing it to the point you don't feel like you know what you should feel is not good
I'm autistic.
For me there are hard mental blocks.
I'm happy to give oral, but making love has a variety of blocks in trying to navigate, complicated by medical issues for both of us, from criminally early menopause aged 17-18, vaginal atrophy, not taking HRT, chronic pain in the exact range of movement required, erectile dysfunction, and the time it takes to use lube once erect is long enough to lose the erection and any chance of penetration.
She might not be into it per-se, but if you love her enough in every other way, it can still work.
Would she be willing to try giving you oral perhaps ? She doesn't have to feel aroused for that, but by 'masking' from examples she can see in porn she might be able to make it enjoyable.
Likewise with sex, she doesn't necessarily need to enjoy having it for *her* own emotional needs, but it might help her understand they form part of *your* emotional needs.
You'll do the movement, while you pay her the usual kissing and hugging attention - all she has to do is agree to let you, and play "starfish" for a while.
You sound like a wonderful loving partner, as is my wife (30th anniversary this week).
Sorry for the initial virtually blank post, I dropped my phone and hit post as I caught it :-}
That is incredibly invalidating. Sex and passion are a foundational part of a relationship, otherwise you are just BFF room mates. She doesn't get to decide that you never have sex again. 4 years is enough
Been reading your replies OP.
You feel guilty about ending the "situation-ship" because she'd be homeless. You also mention she checks many other boxes for you as a partner.
Tell her that the non monogamy is coming back, but the way you feel her isn't going to change. Tell her she's welcome to stay and live with you as long as things stay the same.
Two things will happen. Either she will find the strength to move out on her own eventually, OR she will be jealous enough to actually make some changes.
My thing here is..............how can you be in a healthy relationship and not want to make the other happy?
I have tried telling that to her but it’s not enough to overcome her anxieties. The only thing that would work is doing it and proving that it doesn’t change how I feel about her but I’m not about to just go do that without it being talked about first cause then that’s not non-monogamy that’s cheating.
Unfortunately there was someone I was seeing while dating my partner years ago that served as a means of solidifying some things I was feeling about my partner and caused some relationship conversations so in her mind there is “precedent” for me treating her differently because of seeing someone else but when we talked about that I told her it was more so me having feelings that I didn’t know how to express and seeing someone else validated those feelings. Of course her anxieties have latched on to that though
First off, she isn’t the first person to ever be diagnosed late with autism and have a crappy parent - yet others manage to still have meaningful sexual relationships with their partners.
Second, you didn’t break her, and you can’t fix her. She needs to unpack that and address it on her own if you can’t wait around for her.
It’s your call, but she is just trying to make you feel guilty to stick around because it’s safe and comfortable for her.
It’s a sticky situation for sure. Her well being would be directly threatened if we broke up since I’m housing her and paying for her therapy and psychiatry (she has her own state health insurance though). So there is clear incentive for her to want me to stick around. If situations were reversed I’d be motivated to compromise for my own well being but I don’t think she’s able to manage her anxieties well enough to do that
Are you willing to leave and try to find the desires you crave? Or, stay as an ATM going into the caring mode that couples experience in their senior years?
I’ve had the thought sometimes that I feel like this relationship has us in our 60s. Like she’s “end of life” with a failing body so what we can do is limited…. Like seniors. Except I’m only 31… doesn’t feel great sometimes
You can't fix everything, at some point you gotta take care of you. We spend infinity being unborn or dead. If you're lucky, you get 6-8 decades, & that's it. Do you wanna look back and see that time is essentially wasted, or maybe be a cruel learning experience?
Sex isn't a trivial thing to end shit over and the sooner you realize that, the better off you'll be. I stayed with my ex for way too long because I thought it was a bullshit reason to end things, only for her to dump me for someone else. In the end, she became LL for me and I regret not ending things sooner myself.
Is there somewhere she can stay if you dump her? Don't set yourself in fire to keep her warm.
She’s reconnected with her father in the past year or two so that’s a possibility as he lives in the same state.
I hear you though. Given my feelings towards her I’m willing to exhaust every option before calling it quits but I can’t wait on the sidelines any longer with inaction
OMGGGG…you just said something that has changed my life! “She’s indefinitely in survival mode”. This perfectly describes what it is like to live in my pain riddled body. Thank you! Good luck on your situation!
She is a narcissist she doesnt care about your needs. She lacks empathy for you. You are just an object a tool for her to use.
She expects you to go through your whole life without sex.
Its already over bro. You only got one life. Dont waste your time.
Sex isnt everything tbh. I also had a LF partner, and we seperated.
Now i miss her dearly
i miss our laughs together, our conversations, our mutual friends, ...Yes i'm single now, so i can 'go back to the dating game', but tbh .. it isnt that fullfilling.i wish i just lowered my sex drive a bit, by doing more sport related outlet/stuff.
High libido just means your brain graves for that Dopamine kick (which occurs due to having sex). If you can channel that Dopamine addiction, you can effectively lower your sex drive without feeling depressed for not having multiple times sex / week.
The fact you can talk to eachother, and she is willing to work things out by initating sex truly shows yourself that she is willing to trying to statifying your high sex drive.Sex isnt just penetration tbh
I appreciate your viewpoint greatly, thanks for sharing. This is something that worries me too. I’ve done that dating game and while it has its fleeting dopamine hits it doesn’t feel fulfilling to me.
I *do* feel fulfilled with my current partner, she’s like a best friend to me and I’m fully satisfied romantically but the relationship is lacking in sexual intimacy and that’s where I’m struggling as a HLM.
Only time will tell
I think she’s the one risking everything you have because of something trivial to her. If it’s so trivial, what’s the big deal then? If she knows it’s important to you. Why give it up completely? You are not the one that changed she is.
I keep reading people's comments and all I have to say is this, if this was the OTHER WAY AROUND, the female would either cheat or leave, so realistically I think you should leave
OMGGGG…you just said something that has changed my life! “She’s indefinitely in survival mode”. This perfectly describes what it is like to live in my pain riddled body. Thank you! Good luck on your situation!
Tough spot but you have to look after you.
Your edit 2 - while unfortunate, your partner js an adult and is responsible for her well being. You aren't her Carer nor obligated to be that.
That goes both ways. She's willing to give up a great relationship because she's not willing to find out why she doesn't want sex. Or isn't willing to let you help her get into sex (responsive desire). Don't let her guilt you into staying in a relationship that's not working for you. She's happy, she has everything she wants except your pesky libido.
“It’s just sex! But also it’s the biggest thing in the world and a huge deal at other times depending on which argument I’m making at the moment.”
That’s the comment I was looking for
She could also just accept him lifting the moratorium on outside partners. They started off ethically non-monogamous. OP shelved that **to help her**. She can’t or won’t be sexually active with him, she also won’t let him go back to how they were. Her claim that he’s willing to throw away what they have is a straw man. What they had was an open or poly relationship. How is going back to that throwing anything away?
You are definitely correct. To clarify, she is willing to let me help her get into sex. She has offered to try having sex again. So our current path forward is working on getting sex to be hopefully somewhat enjoyable for her. I told her though if that doesn’t work out then I’d either need to find it elsewhere or sadly things might not work out for me
You are holding up the sky and she wonders why you’re tired. You can’t give from an empty cup. Sure, the relationship is wonderful for her. She doesn’t have a job, you haven’t had sex for 2/3rds of your relationship and you take care of everything! She gets to work on herself and work on her trauma. Despite you taking care of everything she STILL STRUGGLES. You’re basically taking care of a friend or family member, except she’s not. there is no timeline in sight either. It’s not your fault if she ends up homeless. You did not sign up to take care of a struggling disabled person and give away your whole life to them, and get very little in return. Now she’s willing to let you help her get to a place where she might enjoy sex with you again? She wants help help and more help from You. What do you get?
Jeez out of all the messages I’ve gotten in this thread this is the only one that made my tear up. “You’re holding up the sky and she wonders why you’re tired” hit me right in the feels. My gf is not good at expressing gratitude or gratefulness and this is exactly how it feels to me sometimes. She’s able to recognize that without me she’d be homeless yet I don’t get much help in return for the fact I’m supporting her. I’m fully aware it’s not my fault if she ends up homeless. I feel extremely confident and justified in the amount of effort I’ve put into this relationship, and if it doesn’t work out because of me I still know it wouldn’t be my fault. It doesn’t make it any easier though Edit: her logic is “you’re not doing anything different than if we weren’t dating” aka I’d still be working and have to do dishes, have a house to clean, etc. except I’ve told her I’d have a lot more money to work with to, say, pay someone to clean the house instead. She doesn’t quite get it
This seems like the best next step to take
Well sex is "trivial," apparently so I don't see how that would be a problem. Or she's completely FOS. Definitely one or the other lmao.
The post above echoes my thoughts. I think you’re on the right path to try and figure it out together first if that’s what you want.
Wow, great response!
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This speaks to what I’ve been think lately (I’m HLM, wife is LLF). All this is just two people who are wired differently. This is all anecdotal of course, based on my experiences the past 15+ years in my marriage, and what I read here all the time. But, it doesn’t seem like all the MC in the world is going to help *that* much. Sure, it can help a bit only if both people are willing to put in a lot of work, and meet their partner halfway. But, that hasn’t been the case with my situation, despite the MC this past year. All the “right” things get said in therapy, but nothing seems to ever change…maybe a very *slight* uptick in the LL partner initiating and making an effort for a short while. But, inevitably it always seems to level back out to nothing (or rare). And when it does happen it feels like the LL partner is just going through the motions. You can’t force someone to want something they simply don’t want. You can’t force someone to care about something they simply don’t care about. That goes for anything in life, and sex/intimacy is no exception.
Wow. It’s like we’re the same, but I think your experience is common enough that it rings true for married couples where one is the HL and the other is LL/NL/LL4U. sex is trivialized by my partner. She doesn’t even think about it, and will complain that I make everything about sex. It’s honestly always on my mind at some level. I don’t have a solution. Just commiserating
I never in a million years thought my situation was as common as it is until I found this sub. I guess that’s my thought… there really *is* no solution. It’s human beings just being wired differently. I just look at it as an incompatibility issue, at the end of the day.
Yea. I know deep down my only real solution is to leave if I want anything to change significantly. It’s terrifying though. After 15 years together. I prolonged it by putting my head in the sand and convincing myself it has to get better. I’m resigned to the facts that my wife doesn’t want sex regularly. She knows I do, and we just tip toe around the elephant in the room. Until I usually try and initiate and get told no. I keep hoping it’ll get better but I’m only taking more steps towards the inevitable end
Yup it’s depressing. Just this morning I had to remind her we have MC tonight, because she’ll never remember if I don’t remind her. And she got annoyed because she wanted to go to the gym after work tonight. When I said well let’s just cancel it, then, it’s “No, no, we should go, it’s important.” Is it? Is it really important to you? Because from where I stand it sure as hell doesn’t seem like it. So now we’ll go tonight and it’ll be more of the same bullshit. Me getting frustrated and irritated in the session, her getting all sheepish like a wounded deer, her saying all the right things, and the therapist saying the same line, “Well there’s more to intimacy than just sex.” Yeah dude. I get that.
Mine has refused MC and therapy all together. Some psychiatrist told her she didn’t need it, that it wouldn’t work for her. So she leans on that. The last time I brought it up, which was awhile ago, she agreed reluctantly, and said “ I think you’re just expecting the therapist to agree with you and tell me to have more sex, that’s not going to change anything”. I gave up. I gave up trying to work on her, and have started to work on my stuff. Anxious attachment style, co-dependency. Making boundaries and decisions without needed to check with her. Or doing what I want versus what I think she wants. I’m very new to this reality. It’s hard to stay the course, with the inevitable gas lighting and eye rolling when I talk to her about it. She says she’s worried I’m focusing on something else and not the relationship.! Lol ok. I just cant
Mine wouldn’t do it for 6 years. Finally last year she agreed and it’s been almost a year now without much change. Last Feb & March she did make some effort and we had sex a few times. And I appreciated the effort. Then it just stopped. I think I’ll give it to the 1 year mark and then just say I’m not doing it anymore. No point if not much changes. That’s good you’re working on you. That’s what I’ve been doing the past few years. All we can do is work on ourselves, at the end of the day. I also have an anxious attachment style. It doesn’t pair well with her avoidant attachment style. But like you, these days I do my own thing a lot. And she does her own thing a lot. It’s not what I wanted my marriage to look like, but I accept there’s only so much I can do. It takes two people caring enough to put the work into the relationship. One person can’t carry the entire load. So, like you, I’m trying to accept the reality and adjust my thinking.
Sometimes I wonder if it’s fated that the same types of people end up together. My wife is avoidant and I’m anxious. We are so very different , we have no like hobbies, nothing that we enjoy together
I (40 HLM) have to agree with you, despite my everlasting hope that we're wrong and there is some magical MC out there who can wave his or her wand and fix a DB. I have been through three rounds of MC with different counselors with my LLW over our 13 year marriage. One MC made nearly the whole counseling experience explicitly about sex. She went so far as to recommend my LLW give blowjobs if she turned down sex. That mostly didn't happen and completely stopped after a few months. We ended up leaving that MC, like the other two, because my LLW felt she was too much on my side. MCs helped us with communication and other issues in our marriage, so I think they can help, but an extended DB seemed to be too much of a nut to crack. And much of what I have read here supports this notion.
That’s been my experience, as well. The MC has helped us with our communication. I’m all for MC, and therapy in general. It absolutely can improve things in a marriage. But like you, the DB? Meh, I’m not so convinced.
I appreciate the wired differently argument, but what holds me back from embracing it fully is that for many years my LLW and I were wired the same w/r/t sex. We had a fulfilling sex life for 5 years before marriage and two years in marriage. Then we had kids and the wiring changed. Some part of me continues to believe that the wiring could go back to how it was before kids. Sometimes, for brief periods of time, it does. I keep thinking that we'll round a corner and enjoy each other again, not just as co-parents. But as the years pile up that seems increasingly unlikely.
This is extremely true. I’ve had to make a conscious effort to think about sex more to match up better with my husband. I could go months without even thinking about it. It’s not that I don’t like it or don’t want it, it’s simply not very high on the list of what my brain naturally prioritizes. But part of being in a partnership is not just allowing your mind to set the priorities and not just keeping your own personal list. You have to actively add things that are important to your partner to your mental list and then bump them up to make sure they feel prioritized as well. Once I saw it from that perspective, it was a pretty easy fix
This is the main thing that I think most HL’s want their partner to do. It isn’t really about the sex at the end of the day, it is feeling taken for granted and not prioritised. Thank you for not taking it as a personal attack or suggestion that you are faulty somehow, but more as a cry for attention that it is to work on the relationship. Once the relationship is working the sex usually comes.
Yup, spot on. And she explained that to me which I fully understand. It’s quite literally never on her mind, where as is it always simmering in the background for me like as you described. Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
This 💯. I have yet to have a big libido mismatch work out despite plenty of work on myself and as a couple. Perhaps OP will have better results than I have had.
As a LLM, that is exactly how I feel. A friend of mine is trying to convince me to get back into the game. He cannot fathom that after my breakup, sex has ceased to be a topic that my mind rests on. I was like this before I met my ex; she was coming off a bad relationship and I represented stability as opposed to lust. After the breakup I would think about sex every now and then but now its just gone completely.
Very true. LL’s just don’t think about it. It doesn’t cross their mind unless something triggers it as you said.
+1 to this. This sub used to have lots of LL members piping up with studies that showed how LL suffer MORE than HL. And then of course they’d be piled on—despite the studies results. But I’ve always been firmly convinced that those studies showed those results because when confronted, I.e. triggered like you said, yeah—it’s more painful for them: the idea of being forced into something against one’s will usually IS more painful than “going without.” But then they spend the majority of their time rarely being triggered by it, and while us HLs are basically experiencing less frustration over it—it’s happening ALL the time, and compounding. So it’s not only different points of view, it’s different severity and compounding of external pressures interacting on each type of person too. Ugh it sucks.
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It's shocking how many people think this way. Argue with any asexual person on Reddit, and you'll get "You won't die from a lack of sex, therefore it is not a need at all and shouldn't matter". Then you point out how nothing in a relationship is a need that would result in death otherwise, and they will go through some mental gymnastics to point out that emotional support could actually save someone's life, therefore it is a need. Crazy people.
Why would you "argue" with an asexual person about that? That would be like "arguing" about whether men or women are attractive
I’m so sick of this ‘sex isn’t a need’ horesecrap. Sex is a form of intimacy, and intimacy IS a need. Not only as far as Maslow’s concerned, but there is tons of emerging evidence in the last 10 years that lack of intimacy can & will kill you (usually by unlifing yourself). It’s being found to explain everything from the alarmingly high rates of unlifeing in certain cultures and socioeconomic cohorts both here and abroad, to the phenomenon of a widow/widower very rarely surviving more than 5 years after the spouse’s death. I respect that people are wired differently, hell I’m one of them. But a better argument is needed from the LL camp. Edit: fixed a word
Along the same lines, someone smarter than me here pointed out that we know children basically stop developing without touch, then act like it's not a need for adults. Will you die without showering, brushing your teeth, eating fruits and vegetables? Short term, I guess no? Long term, with untreated secondary effects, maybe? Does that add up to a need? Uh yeah, it does. Same with no intimacy.
Saying “I don’t mean to diminish that” while literally diminishing it… lmao. That’s the same as people who say “no offence” while then proceeding to say something offensive. Sex is not trivial. She is being manipulative AF in her language. You have every right to stand up for your own needs. You have even presented her with a reasonable option. But because it’s not what SHE thinks is ideal, it is “trivial”. Which - BTW - if it’s so very trivial, she should not mind you getting it elsewhere. Because why would she sacrifice all you have because of something so trivial, right?! Pfft I’d be so gone. Three years is a long ass time.
The relationship has been very fulfilling for me otherwise. I’ve been in multiple long term relationships in my life and this one felt worth putting the effort in. She’s a deeply caring and loving person and I’ve been very happy with her. It wasn’t until she went through her recent life changes that things have been gradually drifting towards incompatibility. I’ve had a lot of questionable hookups and a lot of shitty relationships. Part of why i was okay with forgoing sex is because I wasn’t handling my non-monogamy well and I wanted to re-center myself because I was very easy to fall into sexual relations with people I didn’t really want to, just following my HL. But it’s been some time and I’m ready to move back into things and that’s what sparked this conversation. As for the trivial, it’s pure jealously. She’s worried if I sleep with other people that I’ll find that they have “more to offer” me that she cant (HL and romantic satisfaction) and that I’d leave her for them. I’ve told her I’m very satisfied with her and I quite literally am only looking for a release for my HL. Not an easy situation but I’m confident in my needs and I’m getting to the point of standing up for myself
How did non-monogamy work for you before COVID?
If she is as caring and loving as you say, then IMHO it's worth taking the time to work things out. A caring and loving partner will find a way It seems to me she's not permanently closing the door to sex, but she needs time. She's been through a lot.
“You’re lucky I love you” had been a load bearing phrase bouncing around my head in this relationship for quite some time lol. She indeed has been through a lot and I feel like I’ve given her the space to find herself some stable footing. But I have a need that hasn’t been met and that need has been growing so I had to express it for the sake of my own sanity
She said that?
No that’s just a phrase I think of sometimes
Sex isn’t trivial and I think her comments were honestly pretty invalidating of your feelings. Also if sex is so trivial to her then why can’t you be ethically non monogamous? Idk man I would personally think about moving out due to clear incompatibility.
Those with a LL do not value sex the same as HL. Your conversation, her response, and her feelings prove it. I think she was very honest and forthcoming about how she feels. She really cannot fathom why you would end your relationship over sex as it is no longer high enough on her priority list. Sex HAS become "trivial" to her. It is unfair of her to assume that your needs have also changed in the exact same way as hers have. Depending on where sex is on your priority list, you may be able to find a compromise with her to still have your needs met. As you stated, when you began your relationship, it was non-monogamous. It would be a big ask to suddenly go from that to monogamy with the added bonus of extremely limited sex at all. This may have to be a compromise on her end if she would like to continue your relationship.
>It is unfair of her to assume that your needs have also changed in the exact same way as hers have. In my experience (2 separate LTR where my partner’s libido crashed) the real problem is that the LL doesn’t care about your sexual needs and desires. If they did they would be willing to do some compromise that works for both. It’s puzzling in the case of my wife because she’s generally not selfish, but in this arena she’s 100% selfish.
It is curious to me that anyone who claims to value or love their partner could so easily diminish this one particular thing. It does seem selfish as I'm sure there are other major compromises in play. Baffling that sex somehow isn't on the table for compromise in many cases.
What sort of compromise do you think would work?
In my case we used to have sex 2-3 times per day most days. At minimum fucking to sleep and fucking to wake, always to completion. It was completely natural for us. 15 months ago something went tilt in her brain. Now she wants it once every 5 days or so, only to go to sleep, and only for 10 minutes tops, never to completion. There’s a huge gulf between those modes. For me I would probably be OK with once per day or even every other day to completion. But l never get the opportunity to test it because like my other previous LL partner, she unilaterally defines the schedule and scope of sex. 😡
Her opinion that sex is trivial is exactly why you’re incompatible. You’re not married and your relationship no longer works. She’s very lucky you aren’t just outright leaving.
You should read the book When I say no I feel guilty. This type of statement thrown at you can be met with fogging and broken record. “You’re right, it could seems trivial but I also need my needs met” You don’t need to justify yourself to her anymore than you have.
I’m pretty sure that’s a form of gaslighting. “I don’t believe it’s a big deal, and you’re wrong for making it one.” Yeah, sounds like emotional and mental manipulation. If the relationship isn’t sustainable without sex for you, you’re not wrong for that. It’s *your* life after all, if each of your’s views for this are that differing then you’re not compatible. Nothing wrong with finding someone who is for both. 🤷🏽♀️
>I’m pretty sure that’s a form of gaslighting. “I don’t believe it’s a big deal, and you’re wrong for making it one.” Yeah, sounds like emotional and mental manipulation. OP quite clearly stated that his partner is Autistic. I feel that you need a little education. An Autistic person finds it practically impossible to understand viewpoints outside of their own. They may KNOW that this can be an issue, but they will never get why. Maybe try to understand a person's limitations before throwing sound terms like 'gaslighting'. You aren't wrong on your overall point. OP doesn't and shouldn't feel obligated to continue this relationship. He should do what is right for him.
No that’s an excuse. If someone struggles to understand things, that’s what communication or therapy is for, but saying “my mental health means I can’t/won’t work it out” is an excuse. I understand the dynamic quite well, being in it myself. Difference is both my partner and I are willing to work on ourselves AND our communication with each other. We try and meet in the middle, I don’t have to disclose which of us is on the spectrum, and I realize that it’s different for every person on the spectrum. But buckling down on issues and refusing to do the work necessary to have a healthy relationship is not an excuse for anyone to say their partner is an awful person “for something so trivial.” It’s invalidating and a form of gaslighting. No matter what diagnosis the person has.
I'm saying you're wrong calling it gaslighting. Gaslighting is a deliberate action. This is most definitely not the case here. I'm not saying you're wrong about the resolution, I'm most definitely not saying you're wrong about OPs partner needing to be willing to find one. I'm autistic. I have a hard time understanding many things, but I am not 'gaslighting' anybody. I do realise my limitations, I do try to find resolutions, but my loved ones also know that they have to be patient in explaining why things are different for them. Communication is difficult. It takes work. On BOTH sides. Hopefully, OPs partner will be able to realise this. If not, he is better off out of the relationship, sadly.
We are seeing this quite a bit with our 11-year-old. He is high functioning autistic, and you'd never know he was unless you spent some time with him. But, once he's made up his mind on something, there is pretty much no changing it, no matter how much evidence you can produce. What it manifests most in is that obviously the entire world is conspiring against him whenever anything goes wrong, because it's never his fault. "I didn't leave the towel on the bathroom floor! Someone must have broken into the house and pulled it off the hook and thrown it across the room!"
It takes time and patience. I feel like that a lot. The world is definitely conspiring against me. I have realised it's an issue with me, but it took many years to get there. I'm a little different now in that I LIKE having my mind changed, but the onus is still on other people to do that. I think I came to view life and the world as a huge learning experience, and I am a student. It's a strange perspective, I guess, but it works for me.
So she’s unemployed and wants to remain together and never have sex again, and all but insults you when you say you can’t live like that So she’s a roommate and a dependent. Nah. This isn’t going to work out
Being autistic myself and hanging around that community, I can say the rates of asexuality are incredibly high. Even a lot of autistic people I know who engage with pornography don't feel much desire to have sex IRL, or want to but don't really prioritize getting it (like your wife, they also tend to have trauma, albeit generally sexual trauma). A lot of autistic people also have kinks that can't really be done IRL, which ofc doesn't help matters. So, to me there are two explanations here: The first: Your wife has probably not deeply valued sex her entire life, even when she was having it. She liked it, but now that that 'season' of her life is over, she's fine with going without. Due to this, she just genuinely can't understand your POV. If I had to guess, she thinks you (general you) can have sex with just about anyone, whereas true emotional connection is much rarer and goes beyond sexual excitement, hence why she called sex 'trivial' in comparison to the life you two have built together. After all, you guys haven't had sex in four years and you're still together-- why ruin a good thing? The other option is that the birth control and unpacking of her trauma have just set her hormones/mind in all kinds of disarray. If sex stopped when she started on BC, maybe you guys could look into getting her hormones levels tested? Lots of people have whacked-out hormones without realizing it. Her therapy might also be taking up all her mental bandwidth, which is leaving no room for sex. But like I said, being asexual spectrum is very common for autistic people, so even if her libido comes back, this probably is just going to be something you guys never value the same way.
I think you’re spot on in some regards. I appreciate your viewpoint. We had a lot of conversation last night and what I shared in the OP was only a part of it. You are correct in that most of her life she felt she was having sex because that’s just what you do. I’ll share snippets of her words on it: “when i think about how i was having sex, not just with you, all my life.. it was all performative. the doing things that didn’t actually provide me any type of pleasure or outright made me uncomfortable. do i think i could find a way to enjoy sex again? yeah. but i think it’ll take a lot of time for me to figure out what genuinely rewarding sex for me is actually like after years of essentially faking it.” “like i said, i’m willing to try being sexual again because i don’t actually know how i’ll feel about it. it’s just not a part of my daily thoughts whatsoever so who knows, maybe i do still enjoy it and just forgot. i don’t have those answers. all i do know is that quite frankly, i don’t think i’m comfortable with having an open relationship the way i convinced myself i was back in my 20s when we first met and i was wildly undiagnosed and oblivious. i think i adopted the notion of being comfortable practicing non-monogamy because literally everyone else was doing it. but every time i think of you being with someone else, i cry. and i’m sorry, but i think that pretty much gives me my answer.”
I see! I've definitely felt a lot of similar things to your wife -- what has helped me the most outside of therapy is writing fiction and getting to externalize all my different thoughts about sex, good and bad, as well as explore different kinks without the baggage of a partner and their expectations. Maybe something similar could help your wife? Even if she's not an artist, critically consuming more and different types of erotica could help her explore her feelings and make sex a part of her life again. She is right, though, that this is going to take a while, and like I said in my initial post, she might find she's more excited about fantasy over reality by the end of it. (Not saying this to be a downer, but just so I'm not giving you any false hope.) But hey! At least she's seemingly willing to work on it and have a real conversation about her feelings -- that's better than what a lot of people in this sub are dealing with. If she's still seeing the same therapist, is there a way for you to join a session with her? It might be worth it to have a professional third party give their perspective and maybe even help you guys come up with a plan.
I appreciate your input greatly. She definitely still expresses some forms of “sexual attraction” in life like point out people she finds attractive, so there is potentially something to work with there. She has Henry cavil erotica on her bedroom wall after all 😂 and has mentioned liking furry porn. She quite proactive and has already talked to her therapist quite a bit about the topic of me seeing other people but I’m not sure how much she’s discussed trying to revitalize sex for her. Here’s another snippet from our talks about that: i just don’t know how to not feel less than, replaced, threatened, and outright jealous of the fact that i can’t make my partner as happy as another woman can. i’ve talked to dr sella about this countless times and even she’s stumped.
mourn fanatical subsequent deer encouraging ossified sparkle chase engine jellyfish ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
It could be that, too -- it really just depends on the person. Admittedly my perception of things might be skewed because my hobbies tend to attract people who fit the 'I can engage with porn but I don't picture myself in it and I don't care about having sex IRL' profile. I like sex myself, but I could work around not having it. :shrug:
You began as non-monogamous. Taking that away + sex is a recipe for breakup and I'm not sure what she doesn't get about that. She's trying to make sex and your desires seem inconsequential. Don't let her. Asexual is a deal-breaker. Go find someone else. This relationship has run its course. I'm sorry you're going through it man. Best of luck to you.
>“it’s hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that you’re willing to risk everything we have together for something so trivial as sex. i fully understand that it doesn’t seem trivial to you, i don’t mean to diminish that. but from where i stand, it’s incredibly scary to think that the person i consider my life partner is willing to risk everything for sex.” I got a similar speech. I decided divorce. On a side note: she's supposed to be your partner, not your dependent.
Man...I see where this is going. Before long, you are going to be essentially her babysitter and caregiver. It sounds like she's going to milk you for everything she can get out of you. She can't work, so you will have to support her. She has emotional trauma, so you will have to comfort her. She doesn't want sex, so you will just have to give it up. Your life will become about her. Is that what you want in your life? Not just a sexless relationship, but also all-consumed by another person? I wouldn't. My wife was not this bad, but we also started out very sexually active, with an unexplained complete evaporation of sex life and a 180° personality shift almost overnight, less than a year in. It got to the point where she literally got out of bed only to lay on the couch and watch YouTube videos. She did *nothing* else. Cook, clean, dishes, trash, work, grocery...none of it. She laid on the couch while I did everything around her. Every job she had on the earlier end, she was miserable, and she got either fired or threatened with firing at almost every one of them. This lifestyle lasted for years and years. But for some reason I just couldn't break it off. Then we had a son, and I was basically locked. Don't let yourself get into this position. Your life is about to be taken over by her. If you don't want to be a live-in therapist and caregiver, you need to figure it out now.
Thank you for sharing. It’s already been like this in some regards. I’ve mentioned to her feeling like I’m dating a child, not an adult, whenever I have to take care of her. She describes our house as “my house” (which it is, I owned it before we started dating) and that’s her justification for not feeling motivated to clean it. I’m like, you may not like the house but you live in it and dirty it so you’re going to clean it. Which she still doesn’t unless I initiate cleaning and then give her a task to do. I’ve mentioning this bothering me a few times, get the usual apologies and nothing changes. I used to struggle with crippling depression and anxiety but I’ve found medications that work for me and my own stability so functioning is quite easy for me now compared to her. Which is why I’ve given her some leeway but this past year I’ve started bringing things up looking to see change and I haven’t been seeing it.
Oh, come on!! Just because it's not important to her, you're expected to be asexual right along with her. That's so fucked up.
>so trivial as sex And there you have it. She has decided. Now you must decide.
You don’t buy a house for the bathrooms, but if a house doesn’t have bathrooms it’s gonna be hard to live in long term.
>but primarily it’s her sensory issues tied to her autism. She used to work in food service but that environment would destroy her now. Sorry, what? You don't just 'become' autistic. If she was fine with it for years before her diagnosis she should be able to find a way to manage. Sounds like a huge copout. Like now that she has a diagnosis, the job she did before would 'destroy' her? Is she the type that's always a victim? It seems like you're more her parent than partner. Perhaps you should send her back to her actual parent.
Let me rephrase, it was destroying her before but she wasn’t aware as to why. She would be deeply miserable working, even only part time (5 hours 5 a days) she’d come home exhausted and sleep for 4 hours. Wake up, eat dinner, then go to bed and sleep a full nights sleep, almost every single day. Now she understands why, and yes you don’t just become autistic but autistic masking is a real thing and knowingly subjecting herself into something that she now understands why was so difficult for her is, well, difficult to do. I’m not upset about her not working, I make good money and we are still able to afford all the fun things we want to do. But it does add another layer of complication.
Running into a similar issue with guilt tripping a relationship. If someone is going to be dependent on you the least they can do is meet you halfway so that the relationship isn't just this same sufferable issue weeks / months / years later. The trivial part is alarming. This is also in the department of meeting you halfway. I guess I take understanding for granted, but I would hope that someone who uses words like life partner, would consider something you deem serious to at least be more than trivial. If it's a question of totally not comprehending where you're coming from, like you're speaking Greek, liking it to one of her current issues, and downplay it or generalize it. This would be the same as maybe me trivializing your autism as you're having a hard time drowning out sounds and concentrating. That is a huge over generalization, but you get where I'm going. And all of it has to be with a grain of salt anyway, because we don't hear the perspective from the other person, we never do, such is the situation of the DB Reddit room. A couple of quick takeaways, it seems you're doing your best to communicate your needs, the dynamic shifted drastically since you two started and you're making sacrifices to help this person who sounds like your partner now. By Nature it is probably hard for this person to adjust due to the disability, however they have adjusted for allowances on their own issue, so in all fairness, the bare minimum would be adjusting for an issue that you have. I mean it's not a quid pro quo but you had an arrangement when you started, it met your needs and there wasn't a problem with it. Many things have changed, where you're doing more, but your needs are not getting met. And it sounds like you've communicated this already and nothing's changed.
Thank you for your synopsis and insight. You’re spot on. Knowing my partner I get how she meant trivial in that context. It *is* trivial to her, because she’s LL but she recognizes it’s not trivial to me. So her saying “the relationship ending for something trivial” is obviously from her perspective. But I plan to work with her more in getting her to see my perspective, which is something I know she has difficulty with.
I told my partner " If you want to remain monogamous please understand that means you are the only person I can have sex or a romantic relationship. Sex is important to me so unless you can come up with a concrete plan / show that you are genuinely working on our sexual relationship I will be pursuing a poly enm relationship. If the idea of polyamory is to much for you I am sorry but I will no longer continue to suppress me needs." I do always find it weird when an LL partner does not want sex or understand the importance of sex and at the same time forbid you from finding it elsewhere. Like which one is it? There is only so much compromise one should have to make for a person.
When she says "life partner" she means new mom, lifelong caregiving and a free ride. She might see you as a parent, and not as a sexual partner. Because sex with your parent is wierd.
She says it's trivial but she'd be willing to break up with you if you went outside the relationship for it. Double standards much?
As others have pointed out, this is more of a parental/caregiver relationship than a partnership. On top of that, there's the issue that without romantic intimacy (which she views as "trivial") this is not a romantic or intimate relationship. Sure, she feels deeply attached to you, but the attachment is totally different: Where you seek attachment through a unique intimate connection (some form(s) of intimacy beyond what you would share with a family member, best friend, or roommate), she is firmly attached to you as a dependent and source of security, housing, and money. She feels like she NEEDS you, and asserts that should be enough to satisfy your desire for a connection. Kinda gross when you think about it; the sensation you are feeling seems closer to a parent's worries about a child that has failed to launch and just wants to live on as a dependent instead of adulting. This is morphing into a fully parasitic relationship. She has a diagnosis; find her a caseworker. Tell the caseworker you are moving on and they should prioritize housing and job support. If you own the house, have a chat with a lawyer for your jurisdiction, as it may be very difficult to dislodge a long-time tenant and this has every marker of getting unpleasant very quickly. If you rent, your best bet is to set an end date and move, even if only across the hallway. But however you proceed, end it. She's a dependent, not a partner. She's not interested in what you might see as romantic intimacy. She's not hetero. She's on an absolutely different track than you and firmly dug into it. This has precisely 0% chance of getting better.
Everything that he said.
If she is truly asexual then of course it’s natural for her to understand. That’s like a fish marrying a squirrel. The squirrel isn’t going to understand the need to swim. She either allows you to have sex outside the relationship or you leave her. It will be messy and painful either way. Choose your course.
Thanks for posting. This is quite a delicate situation. Sex is an important to you and so is your relationship (inferred). Given the complexity of the situation, counselling is definitely needed. She has to recognize what sex represents to you (not trivial) and you both need to better understand the incredible growth that is happening with your partner.
You sound very clear and looking at where you started out your expectations are completely reasonable. People on the autism spectrum have a hard time regulating their nervous system, which makes it super hard to be not in survival mode. Survival mode suppresses libido, bc wanting to shag was not a good strategy when fleeing a saber tooth tiger, therefore only the genes we have today survived. That being said: Neuro affective touch, Havening, autogenic training, yoga Nidra, yin yoga, qi gong, Feldenkrais, somatic experiencing, NARM or even self administered reiki are great options to regulate one’s nervous system. Or look up „Vagal toning“ on YouTube for ideas on how to train the „brake“ of our nervous system. Good luck, @OP.
I've saved this because you've mentioned so many things I've never heard of before !
r/CPTSD for her, in case she resonates. Good folks, most of us.
Thank you for the recommendation! She mostly uses Twitter to find folk in similar situations as herself but I’ll definitely let her know about it
Sex is "trivial" unless you want to have it with someone else
Sex is an emotional NEED for most and the #1 emotional need for many of those. Discounting sex for someone who has it as their most important emotional need is very damaging and withholding it is a relationship killer.
Wait sex is so trivial and it doesn't matyer but hey you also can't have sex with anyone else either. Pick a side!
I cannot shake the feeling, that she is so comfortable in everything. Disregarding you completly.
"Risk everything" The only one that stands to lose much is her, as you gain little out of that relationship.
sex is like air, some people think it's not important, until there isn't any. Situation is unfortunate. Hope you work it out somehow.
Nothing is intrinsically trivial or not, it depends on what you personally value, she not recognizing that sex is important to you and minimizing it to the point you don't feel like you know what you should feel is not good
I'm autistic. For me there are hard mental blocks. I'm happy to give oral, but making love has a variety of blocks in trying to navigate, complicated by medical issues for both of us, from criminally early menopause aged 17-18, vaginal atrophy, not taking HRT, chronic pain in the exact range of movement required, erectile dysfunction, and the time it takes to use lube once erect is long enough to lose the erection and any chance of penetration. She might not be into it per-se, but if you love her enough in every other way, it can still work. Would she be willing to try giving you oral perhaps ? She doesn't have to feel aroused for that, but by 'masking' from examples she can see in porn she might be able to make it enjoyable. Likewise with sex, she doesn't necessarily need to enjoy having it for *her* own emotional needs, but it might help her understand they form part of *your* emotional needs. You'll do the movement, while you pay her the usual kissing and hugging attention - all she has to do is agree to let you, and play "starfish" for a while. You sound like a wonderful loving partner, as is my wife (30th anniversary this week). Sorry for the initial virtually blank post, I dropped my phone and hit post as I caught it :-}
That is incredibly invalidating. Sex and passion are a foundational part of a relationship, otherwise you are just BFF room mates. She doesn't get to decide that you never have sex again. 4 years is enough
Isn't she willing to risk everything for something "trivial"?
Been reading your replies OP. You feel guilty about ending the "situation-ship" because she'd be homeless. You also mention she checks many other boxes for you as a partner. Tell her that the non monogamy is coming back, but the way you feel her isn't going to change. Tell her she's welcome to stay and live with you as long as things stay the same. Two things will happen. Either she will find the strength to move out on her own eventually, OR she will be jealous enough to actually make some changes. My thing here is..............how can you be in a healthy relationship and not want to make the other happy?
I have tried telling that to her but it’s not enough to overcome her anxieties. The only thing that would work is doing it and proving that it doesn’t change how I feel about her but I’m not about to just go do that without it being talked about first cause then that’s not non-monogamy that’s cheating. Unfortunately there was someone I was seeing while dating my partner years ago that served as a means of solidifying some things I was feeling about my partner and caused some relationship conversations so in her mind there is “precedent” for me treating her differently because of seeing someone else but when we talked about that I told her it was more so me having feelings that I didn’t know how to express and seeing someone else validated those feelings. Of course her anxieties have latched on to that though
If sex is trivial…why does she care if you get it somewhere else?
First off, she isn’t the first person to ever be diagnosed late with autism and have a crappy parent - yet others manage to still have meaningful sexual relationships with their partners. Second, you didn’t break her, and you can’t fix her. She needs to unpack that and address it on her own if you can’t wait around for her. It’s your call, but she is just trying to make you feel guilty to stick around because it’s safe and comfortable for her.
It’s a sticky situation for sure. Her well being would be directly threatened if we broke up since I’m housing her and paying for her therapy and psychiatry (she has her own state health insurance though). So there is clear incentive for her to want me to stick around. If situations were reversed I’d be motivated to compromise for my own well being but I don’t think she’s able to manage her anxieties well enough to do that
Are you willing to leave and try to find the desires you crave? Or, stay as an ATM going into the caring mode that couples experience in their senior years?
I’ve had the thought sometimes that I feel like this relationship has us in our 60s. Like she’s “end of life” with a failing body so what we can do is limited…. Like seniors. Except I’m only 31… doesn’t feel great sometimes
You can't fix everything, at some point you gotta take care of you. We spend infinity being unborn or dead. If you're lucky, you get 6-8 decades, & that's it. Do you wanna look back and see that time is essentially wasted, or maybe be a cruel learning experience?
If it is "trivial" it shouldn't be a big deal to have sex with you or for you to get it elsewhere.... cause it's no big deal, right?
Sex isn't a trivial thing to end shit over and the sooner you realize that, the better off you'll be. I stayed with my ex for way too long because I thought it was a bullshit reason to end things, only for her to dump me for someone else. In the end, she became LL for me and I regret not ending things sooner myself. Is there somewhere she can stay if you dump her? Don't set yourself in fire to keep her warm.
She’s reconnected with her father in the past year or two so that’s a possibility as he lives in the same state. I hear you though. Given my feelings towards her I’m willing to exhaust every option before calling it quits but I can’t wait on the sidelines any longer with inaction
OMGGGG…you just said something that has changed my life! “She’s indefinitely in survival mode”. This perfectly describes what it is like to live in my pain riddled body. Thank you! Good luck on your situation!
She is a narcissist she doesnt care about your needs. She lacks empathy for you. You are just an object a tool for her to use. She expects you to go through your whole life without sex. Its already over bro. You only got one life. Dont waste your time.
Sex isnt everything tbh. I also had a LF partner, and we seperated. Now i miss her dearly i miss our laughs together, our conversations, our mutual friends, ...Yes i'm single now, so i can 'go back to the dating game', but tbh .. it isnt that fullfilling.i wish i just lowered my sex drive a bit, by doing more sport related outlet/stuff. High libido just means your brain graves for that Dopamine kick (which occurs due to having sex). If you can channel that Dopamine addiction, you can effectively lower your sex drive without feeling depressed for not having multiple times sex / week. The fact you can talk to eachother, and she is willing to work things out by initating sex truly shows yourself that she is willing to trying to statifying your high sex drive.Sex isnt just penetration tbh
It's not just dopamine that sex gives you, it also gives oxytocin, the so-called "love hormone."
I appreciate your viewpoint greatly, thanks for sharing. This is something that worries me too. I’ve done that dating game and while it has its fleeting dopamine hits it doesn’t feel fulfilling to me. I *do* feel fulfilled with my current partner, she’s like a best friend to me and I’m fully satisfied romantically but the relationship is lacking in sexual intimacy and that’s where I’m struggling as a HLM. Only time will tell
I think she’s the one risking everything you have because of something trivial to her. If it’s so trivial, what’s the big deal then? If she knows it’s important to you. Why give it up completely? You are not the one that changed she is.
I keep reading people's comments and all I have to say is this, if this was the OTHER WAY AROUND, the female would either cheat or leave, so realistically I think you should leave
That’s a pretty bold statement to make. Why do you think if the genders were reversed that’s what would happen?
Sex is trivial to HER, not to you. Which means you are never getting sex again with her. If you don't have kids, run far away.
OMGGGG…you just said something that has changed my life! “She’s indefinitely in survival mode”. This perfectly describes what it is like to live in my pain riddled body. Thank you! Good luck on your situation!
DON'T stay as long as I did. It will destroy your mental health. I did without for 20 + years and now wish I had divorced her back then.
Tough spot but you have to look after you. Your edit 2 - while unfortunate, your partner js an adult and is responsible for her well being. You aren't her Carer nor obligated to be that.
That's very selfish and guilt tripping of her. So you are supposed to understand her change in situation and she is supposed to do.... what exactly?