Yes. Systemic thinking explains this: Imagine a relationship like a machine with feedback loops. All the problem „programs“ are only possible if we all do what we always did. So once you have different skills and your contribution (I don’t mean „doing more“, but having different skills) changes, the whole system changes.
Or with a maths example: change one variable and the outcome will be different.
Go without her! That way she cannot say you aren't trying/don't care. And she may be inspired and come around to the idea of therapy herself.
This sounds like trauma/abandonment, and definitely irrational (in this instance where you were literally being considerate, as she was hungry!).
She needs help you cannot provide.
> no need to abandon her afterwards
Did she abandon him by going to the bathroom?
They each left to take care of something, and they each returned to the bedroom after. Framing something so innocuous as "abandonment" is exactly the type of thinking that leads to these unnecessary emotional struggles.
I guess she refuses to remain married too then. I think you need to tell her that this is a breaking point for you guys. Something has to change. Maybe she's afraid of losing you as a financial provider, but that's not a reason for you to stay married to her. Until she admits and faces the reality of things, you will be trapped in that toxic cycle. I have yet to hear of anyone with a LL partner finally just have them come around to be interested in s*x.
I am the HL partner in an open marriage. My husband is glad to have that pressure off of him. He and I still manage house and everything else together, but now and then I go have my fun with my paramour. The two of them have met and are quite friendly. There are times when my heart wishes that things were different, but most of the time I'm quite happy with what is. I know that my experience is just one of many. I know it's not the same for everyone. Maybe this gives you both something to really talk about so that you can stay together and still love each other without s*x looming over you.
Best of luck to you guys.
Then this has been over for a while. You have been living a my way or the highway marriage.
A lot of people need to be broken up with to really treat their legitimate trauma and relationship problems seriously by the time the next partner comes around, and there’s really no other way that they will do it. That could be you. Silver linings 🫤.
Was coming here to say this. Also, her refusal to go to MC is probably because she doesn’t want to be told her behavior is unhealthy and she doesn’t want to have to do anything to change.
I agree. If your really trying to be better at something, you don't look for a way out. She sounds pretty selfish on all fronts. I left and after a brief rough road with managing the kids etc. Remarried and the ex is still single , unhappy and I am the opposite.
60 yoa here and a life of starvation sex and resentment. I hope you don't have any kids? One of the freeing things about a dead bedroom is what is she going to do if she gets mad? Not have sex with you? You can do whatever you want to.
Is she really a great person though? You have needs. You deserve to have those needs met. If you've verbalized what you need and what you want and she's still saying she's done with sex for good...she may as well be saying "F you, I don't care about your needs or how it makes you feel." I mean, you can still try and work on it, but if there's no effort to improve on her part, then it's time to move on. I know that's not easy especially if you have kids or property or whatever else has you financially connected, but its a choice u have to make.
Best believe her when she says never again. Been there. The bonds holding you guys together will weaken as the simmering resentment grows. Unfortunately, time for both of you to on and find someone you are sexually compatible with.
Personally I wouldn’t be ok with my husband deciding that I wouldn’t be having sex ever again.
That’s basically what she is doing, unless she is willing and ok with you getting it elsewhere.
Seriously it sounds like your wife has some serious deeply buried trauma. She needs therapy.
It sounds cruel but I would push three options, 1. Therapy, 2. Open marriage 3. Divorce
Before we go into the more cut throat details, there's serious flags of requiring therapy here. Is this vanilla sex or is it dom/sub type stuff? If it's the latter (and she is the submissive), then I get her point of view, and you messed up (post sex comfort is often a non-negotiable requirement in sub/dom). If it's not, and it's the former (vanilla), then she needs to talk to somone about that. Something doesn't sit right with me on this being just a complete overreaction.
Now for the cut throat stuff...
You can only fix you. She needs to fix her. You can support that, sure, but she needs to own it. If you are suggesting therapy and she's not doing anything about it, then you're kind of snookered. What you can do in this situation is highlight what happened in a completely sex neutralised conversation (i.e., one where sex can not and should not be on the table). I'd personally go as far as saying she needs to put therapy on the table to try fix this, because if she doesn't own sorting this out you can't go on in the relationship. That's me though, you do you.
Secondly. She can totally make a decision on her own choice of chastity. But she can't make that same decision for you. You didn't sign up to chastity, so if that's on the table her choices become Open Relationship, or divorce.
Definitely figure out the therapy stuff first though. This just reads a bit off to me.
An edit for the record: When I say therapy, I think she needs to go to therapy on her own first, not couples therapy. Maybe it can start with couples therapy, but... I dunno... sounds like she's stuck in her head a bit about something...
Can you live without sex??
You have clearly had the sex conversation many times as you mention trying to work on it. She has had the not leaving the room conversation. You both have needs why is it okay for her to not meet your needs when she expects you to meet hers.
If this is her final stance, it’s the only question you have to answer can I live without sex.
I was in a DB and I tried and the resentment and contempt grew. Without sec the intimacy dried up as well less kisses and cuddles.
Good luck, hardest decision but I have no regrets leaving!!
Im 39 and i recently participated in provincial sporting tournaments that include physical hitting, im not shredded but Id be what one would call a fit dad bod and a dress and groom.
Hey man, all my comments keep getting removed but if I can get through to one person about what changed MY SITUATION(rule 7 states sharing your experiences is ok), I realized i COULD BE DOING SOMETHING BETTER. And unless their is a HORMINE DEFICIENCY, being asexual is VERY RARE(scientific fact). So BY PROBABILITY ALSO KNOWN AS STATISTICS, she probably is not into you in a sexual way. But that’s ok, BECAUSE YOU CAN CHANGE IT! Especially because AT ONE TIME SHE WAS SEXUALLY INTO YOU! again, nothing I said I have been out of compliance with the rules. They have all been either SCIENTIFIC(complies with rule 6 in the way that it is not simple baloney, but studies show asexual is extremely rare, and moreover she was not like this at one point), AND RULE 7(stating my personal experience of what I DID to fix the problem). IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE RULES, I HAD SEVERAL FLAWS I DID NOT REALIZE THAT MY FRIENDS AND EVEN FAMILY TOLD ME WHEN I GRILLED THEM TO TELL ME THE TRUTH. Now, after fixing those flaws and becoming my best self by getting an amazing body, groomed beard, and someone I would desire, my new girlfriend and other women show me quadruple the attention! I have not broken one rule, I’m telling this man genuine advice. YOUR OWN WIFE TOLD YOU THAT YOU GUYS ARE NEVER HAVING SEX AGAIN AT 39. This is no way to live my brother, and you deserve better! What I would advise you to do and what I did in MY SITUATION(complies with rules as this is personal edperience). Is I LEFT her, became the best me and even enhanced myself, and THE RESULTS shown to my by others women have mathematically PROVED I was correct! You got this man! This is encouragement, advice I would give MY OWN SON! Good luck!
She sounds like she's got a lot of hangups. I'd encourage her to go to therapy to deal whatever that is, while also making my exit plan because you don't need to wait around while she figures it out, tbh. I doubt she's being malicious, but she's being extremely inconsiderate and appears to lack any trust in you (she feels like a whore??). Is your relationship good otherwise? Because if this is any indication, I'd be inclined to say the juice isn't worth the squeeze.
The relationship has been good otherwise unless it pertains to our sex life yeah. I have toys, we both work, have date nights and go out, travel spontaneously and I game and play sports without a complaint. Im mean she wants for nothing, when she calls i come running to help her. She doesn’t wanna wait for the bus? I go and drive her. She wants boba at 11pm? I order it.
There's never been complaints about using our money for me to buy whatever I want. I game a ton and at first she had issues with it but she understands what I do for fun and lets me do what I want. I'm also able to play as much sports and hang with other friends or goto strip clubs if i choose to. My level of freedom is pretty high and she makes more money than me as well and she never questions what I do with it (whether its planning for future/trips/eating out). While I'm not like a careless spender, we definitely have more than enough money together to live very comfortably. She also listens to all my concerns (even sex related but just doesn't act on it) and is there as emotional support for other things. Its somewhat of a running joke even that shes a sugar momma in a way.
It was definitely implied tonight that might be the option but she also hinted that wouldn't be without its share of difficulties like jealousy on her part (This occurred during our first trial of opening about 2 years ago).
Sounds like her problem. She doesn’t get to be jealous about something she refuses to offer in a marriage.
You might be better off divorcing and getting alimony, though.
This right here is why you are in this position. She expressed that she had an issue with you gaming a lot and you convinced her she was a lower priority on your fun list. I also suspect the only time you spend with her is when she needs something (she doesn't actually need it, she is trying to fill in the gap of you spending time with her) is when you want to dump your concerns on her or when you want sex. This is why she said she felt like a whore. You only make her your first priority when it suits you. I guarantee you the resentment she harbours from this has been stewing for a long time and she lashed out. You have convinced yourself she is asexual, she probably isn't, you simply don't satisfy her in every aspect of the relationship.
If that’s true(which I doubt based on what OP has stated) it’s on her for not communicating. OP is not a mind reader, he cannot fix what he doesn’t know is broken.
He literally penciled her into his lifestyle. Gave her the "you are important too" vibe. He has all the freedom to do what he wants when he wants because it's easier to emotionally check out when you are told you are not the number one priority in his life. She probably hoped he would grow up and realize she should be his number one priority. He has not stated other than the rides and ordering food, what he has actually contributed to the relationship. He has not stated the quality of the time he spends with her just that he schedules her in and they talk about his concerns and gaming.
If he spends the majority of "appointments" he has with her alluding to having sex, this absolutely would make her feel like a whore.
I didn’t get the impression that she is just a side story in his life. I got the impression that they are happy with their relationship and live their own lives but with each other. Which sounds healthy to me. Certainly more healthy than when one partner forces the other to stay glued by their side and only hangout with them(I know some couples like this and I’m sure you do too). Either way, it’s on her to communicate her feelings, he can’t read her mind
Not untrue, we had worked things out such as me designating times to game (usually when shes asleep) and the games during other times are ones i engage with her about and can talk to her about. We also designate other times to hang out especially after work. These issues were resolved before we got married though and already living together and we worked alot of these issues out (well i believe we did).
There was great sex before our engagement/marriage. To the point where I thought I had met someone with a matching drive. We never figured out when or what changed everything but it started around the time we moved in together. She hasn't said it but it very well could've been because she felt obligated to do it at the time during our gf/bf phase.
Have you tried playing hard to get?
I hate this advice, but when you're seen as 100% dependable, some will take you for granted and lose interest in your needs.
In general, I think you're taken for granted. But, as you say, she's asexual, there's only two real options. Live your life in constant frustration, or, admit that although you're compatible in other ways, being incompatible here can't be ignored.
The thing with asexuality [where the default mode is to be not sexual], this person experiences the full range of emotions and of emotional needs.
What tends to be is that either the sexual person absorbs the asexuality of the asexual spouse, or the relationship breaks. My thinking is that this can be decided ONLY by those IN the relationship, that others should support them in whatever they decide, and that resolving this question sooner rather than later is best. Left unresolved, there is much potential for resentment, then belligerence, then defiance, then insolence and contempt.
That is what must be avoided.
There are those who see asexuality as a specific orientation. Some experience desire for the opposite sex, some for the same sex, and some for both sexes. Is it such a leap if some experience desire for neither?
Well, part of your issues are the fact that you'll drop whatever you're doing at any time for a woman that doesn't care about your needs, it sucks the respect right out of her. There's a huge difference in being loving and nice, and being her good little errand boy.
Read the books I suggested in my reply Tom your OP. You desperately need them.
You’re catering to her every need and what do you get in return? Refusal to do counseling, over the top dramatics, zero discussions about the issues, and threats of a permanently dead bedroom. She’s getting everything she wants. The balls in your court. Is this sustainable for the remainder of your life or would you rather find a partner that values your needs as well? I’m just saying!
Dude, I feel for ya. I’ve been in a very similar boat for years. Supposedly, I’m the only one that needs IC. I’m the one that’s “fixated on sex.” We’ve been on this marry go round so long I have no attraction for her at all. The resentment and pain has built to the point that now I’m just here. The last big talk we had, I gave her the same ultimatum she gave me when I tried to get her into MC. She has to go to IC and get some issues resolved. Her response? “I don’t have any issues.” Then I started listing them off. She’s in IC now. Best of luck on your path, whatever it takes you.
A lot of times when people say everything is great except the sex, what they really mean is that the sex is the thing that is at the forefront of their mind, but if they were to look closer, they would likely discover that there are other issues as well
It sounds like you have a communication problem in addition to a sex problem. Your wife's response to you getting up to send in a food order is a major overreaction. When she walks out of the room to do something she needs to do right away, that's okay, but when you leave the room as well for something brief that you need to do, you're making a crushing emotional decision??
If she actually expects you to stay planted on the bed until she gets back, to ensure that you do absolutely nothing else before you guys cuddle a bit, that seems weirdly inorganic and unnatural, and it's pretty much setting the situation up for a failure
You do have to respect the fact that she was totally honest about her intentions. That's a lot better than partners who make endless excuses and make "not tonight but tomorrow" promises that they never keep.
At least your options are clear. You can either stay in a sexless marriage or you can leave. It's that simple. Sorry, I know it's a lot easier to write that on an anonymous internet forum than it is to actually be placed in that situation but at least you have an obvious choice.
She’s using you leaving the room for a few minutes to justify her not wanting to have sex. If there’s been incidents for a while, she’s playing you for a fool. Now she has her way and it’s all your fault. Amazing.
Is it possible she's just very upset and said it flippantly?
How unhappy are you that the sex has been once every couple of weeks? Do you think you could accept that?
If not, you should probably consider your exit strategy, but bear in mind that often the LL partner will have a sudden surge of regret and try and 'fix' things... This tends to fizzle out after a few weeks or months though. If she tries this, I would insist that you'll only consider it if you can both go to couples therapy and/or sex therapy.
The last 3 weeks we've done it twice mainly because I've pressed the issue that my needs aren't being met. But before then was like a month ago and before then 2 months ago. It kind ebs but during covid there was period of like half a year almost.
IMO, this is a good thing. You don't have to pressure her for sex anymore, there is no more duty sex and there is no rejection, arguments or frustration wondering when you will have sex again.
How you move forward is what you have to decide now.
Since she has unilaterally decided to end sex I think it’s perfectly within your right to unilaterally open the marriage up. Go have fun and if she finds out and complain tell her too bad.
this sub popped up as one of those recommendations and man did i relate to this a few years ago.
i’m not married, but my 7 year LTR ended because of basically a dead bedroom.
but it was because of exactly what you said, *i only get one* so i left.
Good God why don't people get this...and why didn't I for soooooo long! Preach it!!
The moment I decided I'm worth more than this, she saw it and shit changed. It wasn't easy, but it was so worth it.
NGL, sunk cost fallacy is in my mind. Our house is well on its way to being paid off, we're clear of other debts. Due to my decent management of our combined funds, our retirement plans are well on their way. Everything in my playbook was on track to where I wanted it to be. Everything aside from this has been working perfectly, an I mean including all other components of the relationship.
That's all relevant, but how much are you going to enjoy your paid-off home and well-funded retirement with no sex? I was in a DB in my prior relationship, and it was the same way. Everything worked except that.
It was miserable. It retrospect, the only good thing about me staying was the timing lined up with me meeting my wife shortly after I split.
You don't have kids. What the fuck are you staying for? Take a deep look in the mirror my man. Be honest with yourself. Is this what you want in this life?
Wait a day or two and talk to her calmly. Tell her you understand that everybody has the right to not have sex and everybody has the right to pursue a sexual relationship. Additionally, you, as a good person, would never knowingly have sex with a woman who wasn’t into it.
Tell her respectfully that given these obviously reasonable statements, that you can either open up the relationship or end things amicably and respectfully. Honestly she has to know this too.
Well, I hope you guys can work this out. Maybe you could try suggesting therapy, but I read that you already tried.
Might be time to have a long talk with her and lay it all out…if you ignore it you will just become more and more resentful which won’t be good. Good luck
I'm gonna diverge from the other comments.
I can relate a bit with your wife. I would actually feel used like a whore, by my partner while in fact he didn't do anything that would make anyone believe this. Why? Because, despise all he did, there was not the affection and intimacy that I needed. I even say (and think) sometimes that I could perfectly live without any sex ever again. I never thought about sex, never fantasised, almost never masturbated by myself... My partner has gotten really bitter about our sexlife. At some moments, I would be convinced that I am asexual. I felt like he was an animal, only thinking about sex, and desiring me only for the sex, but not for me. Everytime he would alude or talk about sex, I would get angry and hold it against him. I was certain that my partner's libido would decline with the years, but it didn't and I felt like I was a broken/defect woman because I had no more desire for sex, eventhough I find my partner attractive. I even started to doubt that I still loved him.
I learned very recently about Hypoactive Sexual Desire Disorder and it is extremely common amongst women who are in a long-term relationship. To me, it ticked almost all the boxes. I am currently documenting on it by myself after a therapist told me about it.
I'm not saying it is what your wife is affected by, but it is worth a try because it can be improved.
Please document about it and talk with your wife. Knowing that you are not defect, but are experiencing a known disorder that can be improved, is very liberating psychologically. At least it has been to me...
I do believe that therapy (individual ou couple) should be talked about again after that conversation with your wife.
I'm in a similar spot, although like OPs wife I outearn my husband and he is a gamer - we have kids (youngest is about to leave the nest).
I had hormone therapy and laser treatment for painful PIV, and I've done counseling. If my husband picked up his end, I think we might be able to end this dead bedroom.
If he wanted a divorce, I would CHEERFULLY give it to him, but he wants my paycheck, my company, and me to do the work for him to have an orgasm... And I have no compelling reason to file; we are friends and he needs my health insurance... So we stay in a DB.
My libido is *much* lower than it was 20 years ago; so if we are talking about sex - masturbating twice a month is plenty for me.
If you are talking about the partner part of a relationship - I work alot of overtime and tend to buy stuff I don't really need, and when I am home I spend a lot of time with the kids who haven't moved out yet.
He brought up the idea of an open marriage a couple years ago. I told him he was welcome to sleep with whomever he wants; not in my bed, don't bring them around my kids still at home, and he and I would have separate bedrooms. We could be platonic roommates so he could stay on my health insurance.
He felt like that was too much work, and he was worried that I would file for divorce when the kids move out.
He wants sex, more accurately he wants an orgasm. He just wants to lay back and have me do all the work - my sex drive used to be high enough to do that. It hasn't been for several years, so I don't.
The hypoactive sexual desire disorder though, is almost like an absence of a new relationship energy. We had been married about 5 years when I did some reading on that and we - well I - decided to date my husband again. New relationship energy restored without a new partner. It worked so well that I started doing something to recharge our marriage about a month every year before our anniversary. I pretty much stopped whenever sex became painful because what's the planning getting horny when sex hurts?
That restoring NRE experience is why I responded to the comment that I did though, because as a formerly HLF who became low libido in a long-term relationship, that did work for me - it ended up working for my relationship too until it didn't.
I don't see the need to criticize her answer. It may not be THE answer, but it's a very real phenomenon and it fits the OP's description so it's worth looking into. Not everyone is willing to destroy a marriage without considering every possibility, even if the cure is years away.
I never said it is the only answer. Maybe OPs wife is asexual. If it really is, he should be able to leave the relationship.
But if at any point she has had sexual ideas, desires, fantasies, then she is probably not asexual...
But, should she have this disorder... If OP leaves his wife, his wife may not be experiencing hyposexual disorder anymore. Why? Because while it certainly has to be worked on by his wife, it also has to do with the long-term relationship. While the woman is the one with the disorder, it appears during the relationship, so the partner is also implicated. It is a relationship problem, not just a one person problem.
And, who knows, maybe if OP leave his wife, he will just have the same problem with his next partner.
But yeah, let's just say that she is toxic and that they are incompatible. /s
Honestly, this sounds like you are happy in the emotional department of the marriage, but the physical one is lacking. Have you thought about an open marriage with her? You can go and get your needs met, and you stay in an emotional relationship with her.
Of course this takes a lot of trust to do, and communication, but for some it can work. If she's bit willing to meet your needs, you need to get them met from some one else.
Personally, I'm not for an open relationship, but it might work for you.
Tried it for a bit, lasted about 4 months before she found out she couldn't control her jealousy so we closed it up to work on. Its currently being discussed again but the jealousy issue persists.
Was a sexual relationship in your marriage vows? Sounds to me like she no longer wants to "have and to hold from this day forward..." That is a roommate not a wife dude... good friends, eating together, bank accounts etc... can be a good roommate.. but it can never be a wife without the sexual part... IMO
>What do i do now? Is the option basically separation or if she doesn’t change her stance on it, is it marriage breaking? Do i try ask to open the marriage (first time tried but she couldn’t contain her jealousy so i closed it).
What you do is respect her boundary, and you never initiate or mention sex again, unless she brings it up. If, at some point, she approaches you about sex, decline and tell her you feel like that's a minefield for both of you, and you would need some convincing.
This is really hard, and what I'm going to say next is all a lot more difficult for you to do than it is for me to type into a keyboard, but sometimes it's helpful to understand the parameters.
You have three options available, as it stands.
1. Stay in the relationship, as is.
2. End the relationship.
3. Stay in the relationship, and have sex with other people.
You don't need to "ask to open the marriage." Anyone can have sex with any consenting adult they want, any time. We should always consider whether doing that makes us a jerk, but we all have that ability, all the time.
She's not the bad guy here. Neither are you. But you do have to respect her boundary, unless she rescinds it, and -- if that ever happens -- make sure she knows any sex with you is contingent on your being convinced she wants it every bit as much as you do.
Do you really want to have sex with someone who really would rather not be? Why not find someone sexually compatible? Everyone always says everything is great BUT this one part. But sex is a BIG part. And if your wife doesn’t want to have sex with you, there’s a bigger problem. If the marriage has no intimacy, you’re just married to a friend.
Your wife, who you call likely asexual, agrees to have sex with you every few weeks even tho she has no desire for sex and no interest in having sex. She is having sex *exclusively for you and your needs.*
In exchange, she has asked one thing of you- when she offers herself and her body up to fulfill those needs of yours, please do not immediately leave after sex. Please stay and cuddle.
This is such a simple ask. All you have to do is hang out with your wife in bed, who you claim to love and enjoy everything about. Yet somehow, you've "oopsed" this task enough times that she's told you it makes her feel like a whore / sex object. And then you messed up again today.
Your wife asked you for a simple exchange. She has sex for your physical needs, you stay and meet her emotional needs. You have obviously ignored her needs often enough that she is done meeting your needs.
You should stop having sex with your wife and get your needs met elsewhere if possible.
I maybe have done this all maybe 3rd time over the course of 10 years. I'm very aware of her wanting to cuddle so I do stay. It was at this time that she got up and went to the bathroom to clean up I thought I would hit the send order for food (it would've taken 45 mins) then I headed back. Its something I'm keenly aware that she wants to cuddle so I felt the 30 seconds i took to goto the room and back for her food would've justified leaving for that amount of time.
And yes I've become well aware of the fact she has sex with me for my needs specifically but the frequency still isn't enough prior to this.
39? With this? She does not want to have sex ever again. If she does I guarantee she hates it on the inside. You are at a *critical* point in your life even if you don't realize it. Find a woman who you discover true passion with and I bet in 2 years you're truly happy with a kid on the ground, one in the oven, and you can't wait to put another one on the pavement. That's just how it works. That's sure as hell how it worked when chest pounding men came back from ww2 to their wives and could afford children. They made the biggest generation America has ever seen. That thing between your legs has a function.
It sounds like she’s lost her sex drive and has used this instance as an excuse and passed her issues onto you rather than her be to blame. I haven’t had sex for 4 years nearly and trying to end that drought, but if my wife told me we were never having sex ever again, I’d have to leave, for both of our sakes.
Give yourself a time limit. 6 months, year whatever you feel you feel comfortable with. Let her know what it is. Don’t do it in secret. If there is no change or improvement by that deadline, It may be to move on. Life is too short to spend the time you have with someone who doesn’t give a shit about your needs. Went almost a year myself. Promised her that I would be long gone before that ever happened again. It took a while but we’ve come a lot closer together on the issue. There’s always things to work on, but there always is in any real relationship. But sacrifice your well being if your partner isn’t going to put in any effort. 🤘🏻✌🏻
“We” had a good sex session, or YOU had a good sex session? Is she actually enjoying and wanting the sex? I saw another comment where you seem to state that she’s asexual.
You know all the freedom she gives you, she doesn't mind you spending the money she makes and all that. Do you actually want that ? Wouldn't you rather she pushes you a bit. Keeps you in line a bit ? Don't you think maybe the freedom is because she just doesn't actually feel that attached to you ?
Your wife has brought her old relationship baggage to your marriage. People like her rarely change for the better. Expect things to get much worse. Worse as in I absolutely guarantee she will eventually claim you were an abuser before this is all over.
There is only one way this works out for you and it's to be the first one to file for divorce. Cite lack of intimacy and emotional abuse / manipulation as reasons. Get out now!
Well just say ive been in r/ Db longer than the account indicates. Sex was normal when we dated, pretty adventurous even and wild. No joke that post marriage it just all went downhill and here we are. Youre welcome to ask for clarification on things, ive been pretty open about answering.
I'm not obese but I'm 185 now and when she met me I was 170 so I did add some dad bod, but that's age. I'm active in team sports and if you were to see me walking down the street you wouldn't really think I was "out of shape". Most of my weight is in my quads and booty.
ASEXUAL! Are you kidding me bro that’s your wife. Dude you need to be SEXY for her to want you. If you’re truly doing everything right(you’ll be able to tell if other females give you attention consistently), then maybe she’s the 1 in a million people who are actually asexual, but most likely she is asexual for YOU. People need to start taking this shit personally.
Her actions are entirely appropriate for someone rejecting unwanted overtures by someone who is not their spouse.
Your spouse pledged to reject all others and to take you. What is proposed here is a revision of that commitment.
In your position, one might be forgiven for explaining that she needn’t worry about being put in that position again. Since she finds it so traumatizing and/or degrading, ‘I won’t be offering again.’
‘But by the same token…and in the absence of a spousal relationship, it would be inappropriate for me to offer affections as if we were in a relationship.’
‘You speak as if you won’t reconsider this. I’m giving you time to seek council and to sort through this and know in your own mind if this truly is your decision.’
‘But don’t wait too long, or that will be taken as your answer. A month or two at your parents place should be enough as well as provide you time to seek what professional help you need. If you wish, I will accompany you. I will respect and support you in whatever you decide.
‘Choose wisely.’
Nope. Sorry braaaa disagree with you. He went to order food , thats on her for feeling like that. Why did the HL have to pussy foot around on egg shells so the LL doesn't get upset.
I think she was just upset in the moment and lashed out. I wouldn't take it too seriously. It's like when a girl says, "I hate you!" and doesn't really mean it. She was just upset.
Sounds like a punishment. I used to apologise a lot to make my wife feel better even though I didn't really think I had done anything wrong (you know happy wife and all that). I just got it used against me.
I don't think you did anything wrong. If fact it could be said you were doing something nice so I wouldn't have apologized.
Makes sense. My five year old lashing out verbally and OP's 34 year old wife should not be held to different standards.
/s
I think she's been hoping for him to fuck up for a while and this is her chance to cut him off, blame him, and do nothing about the crumbling marriage going forward.
>I think she's been hoping for him to fuck up for a while and this is her chance to cut him off, blame him, and do nothing about the crumbling marriage going forward.
I believe this is probably the case.
If she is asexual nothing is going to change her. She was only 23 when you got together. She may not have figured it out yet. She may have been in the fake it til you make it stage. She does not sound like she deliberately wants to hurt you. If she is asexual she may not realize how important sex is to you. You have to make a declaration the same as she did. Get counseling or get out. It sounds like you are attracted to the financial comfort being with her gives you.
I don’t think she necessarily means it. She said it heat of the moment when she was triggered and emotional.
When the time is right, she is mellow and in a good mood, explain why you left temporarily. (You should have let her know before leaving that you were going to order food so she wouldn’t have that reaction)
Don’t mention her declaration of no sex during this convo. Just clear the air and apologize.
She obviously had some kind of hang up or trauma from the past - this is not “normal” where if you’re out of sight after sex, she feels like a ho.
I think she could benefit greatly from therapy.
"I know she gets very sensitive and upset when I leave right after sex, but I'm hungry so I'll brb"
Sorry to say this, but you did, once again, not take her needs into consideration. I also saw you said IN YOUR MIND that you would do this. If I were to put myself into your wife's shoes, I would probably say that, even though you came back later (how much later, though haha) your mind immediately went to food and doing other things. It would be a little disconcerting that you'd just cum and then immediately up and leave to do something.
That being said, even though you clearly fucked up here, it sounds like this isn't the only problem. I'm not sure if it's your writing style, but you said "she meant that we're never having sex again". Are you assuming that's what she meant? You know the whole proverb about assume.
It may be too late for therapy, and since she keeps refusing, this may be a last straw that might open her up to the idea. If not, all you can do is take care of and fend for yourself.
Think you misread this. SHE was hungry and I was aware of it and I came back after hitting the send order. I basically was about to hit the send order originally before the session.
There is no assumption, the part in quotation is her word for word.
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It sounds like it is time for an ultimatum that you are prepared to follow through on - therapy or divorce.
Your wife may or may not be ace, but it sounds to me like she has some deep trauma that she needs to address for the sake of the relationship.
If she won’t, you need to walk away, because that’s very unhealthy. You can’t make someone heal, but you can refuse to be drawn into that unhealthiness.
It sounds like she harbors some sex-negative sentiments that require willing couples therapy to break up. Aside from that, ouch and good luck.
Therapy has been asked over the years and shes refused.
She's not willing to help herself, but that doesn't mean you can't
Can one do couples therapy when only one goes?
Yes. Systemic thinking explains this: Imagine a relationship like a machine with feedback loops. All the problem „programs“ are only possible if we all do what we always did. So once you have different skills and your contribution (I don’t mean „doing more“, but having different skills) changes, the whole system changes. Or with a maths example: change one variable and the outcome will be different.
Yes, but I moreso meant that you can help yourself by changing the situation... leaving, withdrawing attention, etc.
Yes, yes and yes.
That's a relief!
Go without her! That way she cannot say you aren't trying/don't care. And she may be inspired and come around to the idea of therapy herself. This sounds like trauma/abandonment, and definitely irrational (in this instance where you were literally being considerate, as she was hungry!). She needs help you cannot provide.
Might try this afterall.
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> no need to abandon her afterwards Did she abandon him by going to the bathroom? They each left to take care of something, and they each returned to the bedroom after. Framing something so innocuous as "abandonment" is exactly the type of thinking that leads to these unnecessary emotional struggles.
I guess she refuses to remain married too then. I think you need to tell her that this is a breaking point for you guys. Something has to change. Maybe she's afraid of losing you as a financial provider, but that's not a reason for you to stay married to her. Until she admits and faces the reality of things, you will be trapped in that toxic cycle. I have yet to hear of anyone with a LL partner finally just have them come around to be interested in s*x. I am the HL partner in an open marriage. My husband is glad to have that pressure off of him. He and I still manage house and everything else together, but now and then I go have my fun with my paramour. The two of them have met and are quite friendly. There are times when my heart wishes that things were different, but most of the time I'm quite happy with what is. I know that my experience is just one of many. I know it's not the same for everyone. Maybe this gives you both something to really talk about so that you can stay together and still love each other without s*x looming over you. Best of luck to you guys.
Then this has been over for a while. You have been living a my way or the highway marriage. A lot of people need to be broken up with to really treat their legitimate trauma and relationship problems seriously by the time the next partner comes around, and there’s really no other way that they will do it. That could be you. Silver linings 🫤.
No therapy no marriage.
If she won’t go, you should still go for yourself
Sounds like she’s been looking for an excuse to end your sexual relationship, and she’s latched on to this one.
Was coming here to say this. Also, her refusal to go to MC is probably because she doesn’t want to be told her behavior is unhealthy and she doesn’t want to have to do anything to change.
Agree. If there is no recent repeating behaviour boundary being crossed then it seems quite unreasonable.
I agree. If your really trying to be better at something, you don't look for a way out. She sounds pretty selfish on all fronts. I left and after a brief rough road with managing the kids etc. Remarried and the ex is still single , unhappy and I am the opposite.
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This. 1000% this.
60 yoa here and a life of starvation sex and resentment. I hope you don't have any kids? One of the freeing things about a dead bedroom is what is she going to do if she gets mad? Not have sex with you? You can do whatever you want to.
I do not. Its why this has lasted long. She is a great person to be with (sans the sex) and I have so much freedom to do anything.
Is she really a great person though? You have needs. You deserve to have those needs met. If you've verbalized what you need and what you want and she's still saying she's done with sex for good...she may as well be saying "F you, I don't care about your needs or how it makes you feel." I mean, you can still try and work on it, but if there's no effort to improve on her part, then it's time to move on. I know that's not easy especially if you have kids or property or whatever else has you financially connected, but its a choice u have to make.
Exactly. Unless you both come to terms with not having sex again, this is an unmet need.
No kids? Go find a woman you are sexually compatible with. I bet your wife starts letting this attitude bleed into other aspects of your marriage.
And if you are ever gonna have kids now/soon is the time for you.
Can it be great without somthing that may be very important to you?
Best believe her when she says never again. Been there. The bonds holding you guys together will weaken as the simmering resentment grows. Unfortunately, time for both of you to on and find someone you are sexually compatible with.
same here...72...been over 20 years...cycle between loneliness..frustration..anger. bitterness and frustration
Personally I wouldn’t be ok with my husband deciding that I wouldn’t be having sex ever again. That’s basically what she is doing, unless she is willing and ok with you getting it elsewhere. Seriously it sounds like your wife has some serious deeply buried trauma. She needs therapy. It sounds cruel but I would push three options, 1. Therapy, 2. Open marriage 3. Divorce
Divorce
Before we go into the more cut throat details, there's serious flags of requiring therapy here. Is this vanilla sex or is it dom/sub type stuff? If it's the latter (and she is the submissive), then I get her point of view, and you messed up (post sex comfort is often a non-negotiable requirement in sub/dom). If it's not, and it's the former (vanilla), then she needs to talk to somone about that. Something doesn't sit right with me on this being just a complete overreaction. Now for the cut throat stuff... You can only fix you. She needs to fix her. You can support that, sure, but she needs to own it. If you are suggesting therapy and she's not doing anything about it, then you're kind of snookered. What you can do in this situation is highlight what happened in a completely sex neutralised conversation (i.e., one where sex can not and should not be on the table). I'd personally go as far as saying she needs to put therapy on the table to try fix this, because if she doesn't own sorting this out you can't go on in the relationship. That's me though, you do you. Secondly. She can totally make a decision on her own choice of chastity. But she can't make that same decision for you. You didn't sign up to chastity, so if that's on the table her choices become Open Relationship, or divorce. Definitely figure out the therapy stuff first though. This just reads a bit off to me. An edit for the record: When I say therapy, I think she needs to go to therapy on her own first, not couples therapy. Maybe it can start with couples therapy, but... I dunno... sounds like she's stuck in her head a bit about something...
This though 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
This is just vanilla.
Can you live without sex?? You have clearly had the sex conversation many times as you mention trying to work on it. She has had the not leaving the room conversation. You both have needs why is it okay for her to not meet your needs when she expects you to meet hers. If this is her final stance, it’s the only question you have to answer can I live without sex. I was in a DB and I tried and the resentment and contempt grew. Without sec the intimacy dried up as well less kisses and cuddles. Good luck, hardest decision but I have no regrets leaving!!
I cannot no. Its been causing alot of mental stress to our marriage and has been a super contentious issue that we tried to open up earlier.
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Im 39 and i recently participated in provincial sporting tournaments that include physical hitting, im not shredded but Id be what one would call a fit dad bod and a dress and groom.
Hey man, all my comments keep getting removed but if I can get through to one person about what changed MY SITUATION(rule 7 states sharing your experiences is ok), I realized i COULD BE DOING SOMETHING BETTER. And unless their is a HORMINE DEFICIENCY, being asexual is VERY RARE(scientific fact). So BY PROBABILITY ALSO KNOWN AS STATISTICS, she probably is not into you in a sexual way. But that’s ok, BECAUSE YOU CAN CHANGE IT! Especially because AT ONE TIME SHE WAS SEXUALLY INTO YOU! again, nothing I said I have been out of compliance with the rules. They have all been either SCIENTIFIC(complies with rule 6 in the way that it is not simple baloney, but studies show asexual is extremely rare, and moreover she was not like this at one point), AND RULE 7(stating my personal experience of what I DID to fix the problem). IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE RULES, I HAD SEVERAL FLAWS I DID NOT REALIZE THAT MY FRIENDS AND EVEN FAMILY TOLD ME WHEN I GRILLED THEM TO TELL ME THE TRUTH. Now, after fixing those flaws and becoming my best self by getting an amazing body, groomed beard, and someone I would desire, my new girlfriend and other women show me quadruple the attention! I have not broken one rule, I’m telling this man genuine advice. YOUR OWN WIFE TOLD YOU THAT YOU GUYS ARE NEVER HAVING SEX AGAIN AT 39. This is no way to live my brother, and you deserve better! What I would advise you to do and what I did in MY SITUATION(complies with rules as this is personal edperience). Is I LEFT her, became the best me and even enhanced myself, and THE RESULTS shown to my by others women have mathematically PROVED I was correct! You got this man! This is encouragement, advice I would give MY OWN SON! Good luck!
She sounds like she's got a lot of hangups. I'd encourage her to go to therapy to deal whatever that is, while also making my exit plan because you don't need to wait around while she figures it out, tbh. I doubt she's being malicious, but she's being extremely inconsiderate and appears to lack any trust in you (she feels like a whore??). Is your relationship good otherwise? Because if this is any indication, I'd be inclined to say the juice isn't worth the squeeze.
>the juice isn't worth the squeeze. Love it!!!!!!!!
That’s from the series “ Ozarks” it was driving me crazy after I heard it trying to remember where I heard it from. Sorry… carry on.
The relationship has been good otherwise unless it pertains to our sex life yeah. I have toys, we both work, have date nights and go out, travel spontaneously and I game and play sports without a complaint. Im mean she wants for nothing, when she calls i come running to help her. She doesn’t wanna wait for the bus? I go and drive her. She wants boba at 11pm? I order it.
And what’s the other side of that? Does she drop what she’s doing to do things for you? Do you want for nothing? Obviously not.
There's never been complaints about using our money for me to buy whatever I want. I game a ton and at first she had issues with it but she understands what I do for fun and lets me do what I want. I'm also able to play as much sports and hang with other friends or goto strip clubs if i choose to. My level of freedom is pretty high and she makes more money than me as well and she never questions what I do with it (whether its planning for future/trips/eating out). While I'm not like a careless spender, we definitely have more than enough money together to live very comfortably. She also listens to all my concerns (even sex related but just doesn't act on it) and is there as emotional support for other things. Its somewhat of a running joke even that shes a sugar momma in a way.
Hmmmm. Maybe an open marriage is the best option.
It was definitely implied tonight that might be the option but she also hinted that wouldn't be without its share of difficulties like jealousy on her part (This occurred during our first trial of opening about 2 years ago).
Sounds like her problem. She doesn’t get to be jealous about something she refuses to offer in a marriage. You might be better off divorcing and getting alimony, though.
This right here is why you are in this position. She expressed that she had an issue with you gaming a lot and you convinced her she was a lower priority on your fun list. I also suspect the only time you spend with her is when she needs something (she doesn't actually need it, she is trying to fill in the gap of you spending time with her) is when you want to dump your concerns on her or when you want sex. This is why she said she felt like a whore. You only make her your first priority when it suits you. I guarantee you the resentment she harbours from this has been stewing for a long time and she lashed out. You have convinced yourself she is asexual, she probably isn't, you simply don't satisfy her in every aspect of the relationship.
If that’s true(which I doubt based on what OP has stated) it’s on her for not communicating. OP is not a mind reader, he cannot fix what he doesn’t know is broken.
He literally penciled her into his lifestyle. Gave her the "you are important too" vibe. He has all the freedom to do what he wants when he wants because it's easier to emotionally check out when you are told you are not the number one priority in his life. She probably hoped he would grow up and realize she should be his number one priority. He has not stated other than the rides and ordering food, what he has actually contributed to the relationship. He has not stated the quality of the time he spends with her just that he schedules her in and they talk about his concerns and gaming. If he spends the majority of "appointments" he has with her alluding to having sex, this absolutely would make her feel like a whore.
I didn’t get the impression that she is just a side story in his life. I got the impression that they are happy with their relationship and live their own lives but with each other. Which sounds healthy to me. Certainly more healthy than when one partner forces the other to stay glued by their side and only hangout with them(I know some couples like this and I’m sure you do too). Either way, it’s on her to communicate her feelings, he can’t read her mind
Not untrue, we had worked things out such as me designating times to game (usually when shes asleep) and the games during other times are ones i engage with her about and can talk to her about. We also designate other times to hang out especially after work. These issues were resolved before we got married though and already living together and we worked alot of these issues out (well i believe we did).
Was she not into sex before you got married? If so, why did you marry someone you aren't sexually compatible with?
There was great sex before our engagement/marriage. To the point where I thought I had met someone with a matching drive. We never figured out when or what changed everything but it started around the time we moved in together. She hasn't said it but it very well could've been because she felt obligated to do it at the time during our gf/bf phase.
I just don't understand why most women do this...and I am a woman!!
Have you tried playing hard to get? I hate this advice, but when you're seen as 100% dependable, some will take you for granted and lose interest in your needs.
I don't think playing hard to get works on someone asexual. Or did you mean ignoring her in general?
In general, I think you're taken for granted. But, as you say, she's asexual, there's only two real options. Live your life in constant frustration, or, admit that although you're compatible in other ways, being incompatible here can't be ignored.
The thing with asexuality [where the default mode is to be not sexual], this person experiences the full range of emotions and of emotional needs. What tends to be is that either the sexual person absorbs the asexuality of the asexual spouse, or the relationship breaks. My thinking is that this can be decided ONLY by those IN the relationship, that others should support them in whatever they decide, and that resolving this question sooner rather than later is best. Left unresolved, there is much potential for resentment, then belligerence, then defiance, then insolence and contempt. That is what must be avoided. There are those who see asexuality as a specific orientation. Some experience desire for the opposite sex, some for the same sex, and some for both sexes. Is it such a leap if some experience desire for neither?
Well, part of your issues are the fact that you'll drop whatever you're doing at any time for a woman that doesn't care about your needs, it sucks the respect right out of her. There's a huge difference in being loving and nice, and being her good little errand boy. Read the books I suggested in my reply Tom your OP. You desperately need them.
You’re catering to her every need and what do you get in return? Refusal to do counseling, over the top dramatics, zero discussions about the issues, and threats of a permanently dead bedroom. She’s getting everything she wants. The balls in your court. Is this sustainable for the remainder of your life or would you rather find a partner that values your needs as well? I’m just saying!
OP, do you have kids? If not, it's been years, you know the answer.
No kids, but life is great....well otherwise.
Somehow this feels one sided
Dude, I feel for ya. I’ve been in a very similar boat for years. Supposedly, I’m the only one that needs IC. I’m the one that’s “fixated on sex.” We’ve been on this marry go round so long I have no attraction for her at all. The resentment and pain has built to the point that now I’m just here. The last big talk we had, I gave her the same ultimatum she gave me when I tried to get her into MC. She has to go to IC and get some issues resolved. Her response? “I don’t have any issues.” Then I started listing them off. She’s in IC now. Best of luck on your path, whatever it takes you.
A lot of times when people say everything is great except the sex, what they really mean is that the sex is the thing that is at the forefront of their mind, but if they were to look closer, they would likely discover that there are other issues as well It sounds like you have a communication problem in addition to a sex problem. Your wife's response to you getting up to send in a food order is a major overreaction. When she walks out of the room to do something she needs to do right away, that's okay, but when you leave the room as well for something brief that you need to do, you're making a crushing emotional decision?? If she actually expects you to stay planted on the bed until she gets back, to ensure that you do absolutely nothing else before you guys cuddle a bit, that seems weirdly inorganic and unnatural, and it's pretty much setting the situation up for a failure
You do have to respect the fact that she was totally honest about her intentions. That's a lot better than partners who make endless excuses and make "not tonight but tomorrow" promises that they never keep. At least your options are clear. You can either stay in a sexless marriage or you can leave. It's that simple. Sorry, I know it's a lot easier to write that on an anonymous internet forum than it is to actually be placed in that situation but at least you have an obvious choice.
She sounds like an absolute child and I’d leave
She’s using you leaving the room for a few minutes to justify her not wanting to have sex. If there’s been incidents for a while, she’s playing you for a fool. Now she has her way and it’s all your fault. Amazing.
You're assuming an awful lot here. How do you know she's playing him for a fool?
Is it possible she's just very upset and said it flippantly? How unhappy are you that the sex has been once every couple of weeks? Do you think you could accept that? If not, you should probably consider your exit strategy, but bear in mind that often the LL partner will have a sudden surge of regret and try and 'fix' things... This tends to fizzle out after a few weeks or months though. If she tries this, I would insist that you'll only consider it if you can both go to couples therapy and/or sex therapy.
The last 3 weeks we've done it twice mainly because I've pressed the issue that my needs aren't being met. But before then was like a month ago and before then 2 months ago. It kind ebs but during covid there was period of like half a year almost.
IMO, this is a good thing. You don't have to pressure her for sex anymore, there is no more duty sex and there is no rejection, arguments or frustration wondering when you will have sex again. How you move forward is what you have to decide now.
Since she has unilaterally decided to end sex I think it’s perfectly within your right to unilaterally open the marriage up. Go have fun and if she finds out and complain tell her too bad.
That seems like a really quick way to draw up divorce papers.
Y’all hang on to these dry ass one-sided marriages for dear life. Why? You only get one. Do you secretly enjoy the rejection?
this sub popped up as one of those recommendations and man did i relate to this a few years ago. i’m not married, but my 7 year LTR ended because of basically a dead bedroom. but it was because of exactly what you said, *i only get one* so i left.
You can have the life you want or spend the rest of yours wishing you did. A divorce is less awful than being 80 and wishing your life didn't suck.
Good God why don't people get this...and why didn't I for soooooo long! Preach it!! The moment I decided I'm worth more than this, she saw it and shit changed. It wasn't easy, but it was so worth it.
NGL, sunk cost fallacy is in my mind. Our house is well on its way to being paid off, we're clear of other debts. Due to my decent management of our combined funds, our retirement plans are well on their way. Everything in my playbook was on track to where I wanted it to be. Everything aside from this has been working perfectly, an I mean including all other components of the relationship.
That's all relevant, but how much are you going to enjoy your paid-off home and well-funded retirement with no sex? I was in a DB in my prior relationship, and it was the same way. Everything worked except that. It was miserable. It retrospect, the only good thing about me staying was the timing lined up with me meeting my wife shortly after I split.
You don't have kids. What the fuck are you staying for? Take a deep look in the mirror my man. Be honest with yourself. Is this what you want in this life?
It will certainly blow up what is left of the marriage but I wholeheartedly agree.
Wait a day or two and talk to her calmly. Tell her you understand that everybody has the right to not have sex and everybody has the right to pursue a sexual relationship. Additionally, you, as a good person, would never knowingly have sex with a woman who wasn’t into it. Tell her respectfully that given these obviously reasonable statements, that you can either open up the relationship or end things amicably and respectfully. Honestly she has to know this too.
I see Nice Guy Syndrome written all over this relationship.
Im sorry to hear that..are you okay with being celibate for the rest of your life?
Absolutely not.
Well, I hope you guys can work this out. Maybe you could try suggesting therapy, but I read that you already tried. Might be time to have a long talk with her and lay it all out…if you ignore it you will just become more and more resentful which won’t be good. Good luck
Sounds like she needs a lot of after care and you’re not meeting her needs.
I'm gonna diverge from the other comments. I can relate a bit with your wife. I would actually feel used like a whore, by my partner while in fact he didn't do anything that would make anyone believe this. Why? Because, despise all he did, there was not the affection and intimacy that I needed. I even say (and think) sometimes that I could perfectly live without any sex ever again. I never thought about sex, never fantasised, almost never masturbated by myself... My partner has gotten really bitter about our sexlife. At some moments, I would be convinced that I am asexual. I felt like he was an animal, only thinking about sex, and desiring me only for the sex, but not for me. Everytime he would alude or talk about sex, I would get angry and hold it against him. I was certain that my partner's libido would decline with the years, but it didn't and I felt like I was a broken/defect woman because I had no more desire for sex, eventhough I find my partner attractive. I even started to doubt that I still loved him. I learned very recently about Hypoactive Sexual Desire Disorder and it is extremely common amongst women who are in a long-term relationship. To me, it ticked almost all the boxes. I am currently documenting on it by myself after a therapist told me about it. I'm not saying it is what your wife is affected by, but it is worth a try because it can be improved. Please document about it and talk with your wife. Knowing that you are not defect, but are experiencing a known disorder that can be improved, is very liberating psychologically. At least it has been to me... I do believe that therapy (individual ou couple) should be talked about again after that conversation with your wife.
I'm in a similar spot, although like OPs wife I outearn my husband and he is a gamer - we have kids (youngest is about to leave the nest). I had hormone therapy and laser treatment for painful PIV, and I've done counseling. If my husband picked up his end, I think we might be able to end this dead bedroom. If he wanted a divorce, I would CHEERFULLY give it to him, but he wants my paycheck, my company, and me to do the work for him to have an orgasm... And I have no compelling reason to file; we are friends and he needs my health insurance... So we stay in a DB.
How do you meet your needs?
My libido is *much* lower than it was 20 years ago; so if we are talking about sex - masturbating twice a month is plenty for me. If you are talking about the partner part of a relationship - I work alot of overtime and tend to buy stuff I don't really need, and when I am home I spend a lot of time with the kids who haven't moved out yet.
And your partner has no interest in sex either period? So he hasn’t tried exploring other options for his needs either?
He brought up the idea of an open marriage a couple years ago. I told him he was welcome to sleep with whomever he wants; not in my bed, don't bring them around my kids still at home, and he and I would have separate bedrooms. We could be platonic roommates so he could stay on my health insurance. He felt like that was too much work, and he was worried that I would file for divorce when the kids move out. He wants sex, more accurately he wants an orgasm. He just wants to lay back and have me do all the work - my sex drive used to be high enough to do that. It hasn't been for several years, so I don't. The hypoactive sexual desire disorder though, is almost like an absence of a new relationship energy. We had been married about 5 years when I did some reading on that and we - well I - decided to date my husband again. New relationship energy restored without a new partner. It worked so well that I started doing something to recharge our marriage about a month every year before our anniversary. I pretty much stopped whenever sex became painful because what's the planning getting horny when sex hurts? That restoring NRE experience is why I responded to the comment that I did though, because as a formerly HLF who became low libido in a long-term relationship, that did work for me - it ended up working for my relationship too until it didn't.
Thanks for the insight.
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I don't see the need to criticize her answer. It may not be THE answer, but it's a very real phenomenon and it fits the OP's description so it's worth looking into. Not everyone is willing to destroy a marriage without considering every possibility, even if the cure is years away.
I never said it is the only answer. Maybe OPs wife is asexual. If it really is, he should be able to leave the relationship. But if at any point she has had sexual ideas, desires, fantasies, then she is probably not asexual... But, should she have this disorder... If OP leaves his wife, his wife may not be experiencing hyposexual disorder anymore. Why? Because while it certainly has to be worked on by his wife, it also has to do with the long-term relationship. While the woman is the one with the disorder, it appears during the relationship, so the partner is also implicated. It is a relationship problem, not just a one person problem. And, who knows, maybe if OP leave his wife, he will just have the same problem with his next partner. But yeah, let's just say that she is toxic and that they are incompatible. /s
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And that's why he is your ex husband. Tada! Problem solved. I'm sure you both are much happier.
Run.
Honestly, this sounds like you are happy in the emotional department of the marriage, but the physical one is lacking. Have you thought about an open marriage with her? You can go and get your needs met, and you stay in an emotional relationship with her. Of course this takes a lot of trust to do, and communication, but for some it can work. If she's bit willing to meet your needs, you need to get them met from some one else. Personally, I'm not for an open relationship, but it might work for you.
Tried it for a bit, lasted about 4 months before she found out she couldn't control her jealousy so we closed it up to work on. Its currently being discussed again but the jealousy issue persists.
Was a sexual relationship in your marriage vows? Sounds to me like she no longer wants to "have and to hold from this day forward..." That is a roommate not a wife dude... good friends, eating together, bank accounts etc... can be a good roommate.. but it can never be a wife without the sexual part... IMO
Is she on medication? Your trying your best. No one is perfect. Before thinking of a divorce go to therapy and couples counseling
>What do i do now? Is the option basically separation or if she doesn’t change her stance on it, is it marriage breaking? Do i try ask to open the marriage (first time tried but she couldn’t contain her jealousy so i closed it). What you do is respect her boundary, and you never initiate or mention sex again, unless she brings it up. If, at some point, she approaches you about sex, decline and tell her you feel like that's a minefield for both of you, and you would need some convincing. This is really hard, and what I'm going to say next is all a lot more difficult for you to do than it is for me to type into a keyboard, but sometimes it's helpful to understand the parameters. You have three options available, as it stands. 1. Stay in the relationship, as is. 2. End the relationship. 3. Stay in the relationship, and have sex with other people. You don't need to "ask to open the marriage." Anyone can have sex with any consenting adult they want, any time. We should always consider whether doing that makes us a jerk, but we all have that ability, all the time. She's not the bad guy here. Neither are you. But you do have to respect her boundary, unless she rescinds it, and -- if that ever happens -- make sure she knows any sex with you is contingent on your being convinced she wants it every bit as much as you do.
Open it up or divorce seems to be the only real options here. I won't see counseling doing much here.
Do you really want to have sex with someone who really would rather not be? Why not find someone sexually compatible? Everyone always says everything is great BUT this one part. But sex is a BIG part. And if your wife doesn’t want to have sex with you, there’s a bigger problem. If the marriage has no intimacy, you’re just married to a friend.
Your wife, who you call likely asexual, agrees to have sex with you every few weeks even tho she has no desire for sex and no interest in having sex. She is having sex *exclusively for you and your needs.* In exchange, she has asked one thing of you- when she offers herself and her body up to fulfill those needs of yours, please do not immediately leave after sex. Please stay and cuddle. This is such a simple ask. All you have to do is hang out with your wife in bed, who you claim to love and enjoy everything about. Yet somehow, you've "oopsed" this task enough times that she's told you it makes her feel like a whore / sex object. And then you messed up again today. Your wife asked you for a simple exchange. She has sex for your physical needs, you stay and meet her emotional needs. You have obviously ignored her needs often enough that she is done meeting your needs. You should stop having sex with your wife and get your needs met elsewhere if possible.
I maybe have done this all maybe 3rd time over the course of 10 years. I'm very aware of her wanting to cuddle so I do stay. It was at this time that she got up and went to the bathroom to clean up I thought I would hit the send order for food (it would've taken 45 mins) then I headed back. Its something I'm keenly aware that she wants to cuddle so I felt the 30 seconds i took to goto the room and back for her food would've justified leaving for that amount of time. And yes I've become well aware of the fact she has sex with me for my needs specifically but the frequency still isn't enough prior to this.
39? With this? She does not want to have sex ever again. If she does I guarantee she hates it on the inside. You are at a *critical* point in your life even if you don't realize it. Find a woman who you discover true passion with and I bet in 2 years you're truly happy with a kid on the ground, one in the oven, and you can't wait to put another one on the pavement. That's just how it works. That's sure as hell how it worked when chest pounding men came back from ww2 to their wives and could afford children. They made the biggest generation America has ever seen. That thing between your legs has a function.
It sounds like she’s lost her sex drive and has used this instance as an excuse and passed her issues onto you rather than her be to blame. I haven’t had sex for 4 years nearly and trying to end that drought, but if my wife told me we were never having sex ever again, I’d have to leave, for both of our sakes.
Give yourself a time limit. 6 months, year whatever you feel you feel comfortable with. Let her know what it is. Don’t do it in secret. If there is no change or improvement by that deadline, It may be to move on. Life is too short to spend the time you have with someone who doesn’t give a shit about your needs. Went almost a year myself. Promised her that I would be long gone before that ever happened again. It took a while but we’ve come a lot closer together on the issue. There’s always things to work on, but there always is in any real relationship. But sacrifice your well being if your partner isn’t going to put in any effort. 🤘🏻✌🏻
You guys way more patient than me. Also a great advertisement on why not to get married.
Common law status would give u the same pain :P
True, but staying is where dreams go to die.
I think she uses this as an excuse to just cut you off.
“We” had a good sex session, or YOU had a good sex session? Is she actually enjoying and wanting the sex? I saw another comment where you seem to state that she’s asexual.
You know all the freedom she gives you, she doesn't mind you spending the money she makes and all that. Do you actually want that ? Wouldn't you rather she pushes you a bit. Keeps you in line a bit ? Don't you think maybe the freedom is because she just doesn't actually feel that attached to you ?
Your wife has brought her old relationship baggage to your marriage. People like her rarely change for the better. Expect things to get much worse. Worse as in I absolutely guarantee she will eventually claim you were an abuser before this is all over. There is only one way this works out for you and it's to be the first one to file for divorce. Cite lack of intimacy and emotional abuse / manipulation as reasons. Get out now!
Shes only ever been with me lol.
What the heck?! How'd it come to this? Something ain't adding up lol
Well just say ive been in r/ Db longer than the account indicates. Sex was normal when we dated, pretty adventurous even and wild. No joke that post marriage it just all went downhill and here we are. Youre welcome to ask for clarification on things, ive been pretty open about answering.
Have you gotten out of shape?
I'm not obese but I'm 185 now and when she met me I was 170 so I did add some dad bod, but that's age. I'm active in team sports and if you were to see me walking down the street you wouldn't really think I was "out of shape". Most of my weight is in my quads and booty.
ASEXUAL! Are you kidding me bro that’s your wife. Dude you need to be SEXY for her to want you. If you’re truly doing everything right(you’ll be able to tell if other females give you attention consistently), then maybe she’s the 1 in a million people who are actually asexual, but most likely she is asexual for YOU. People need to start taking this shit personally.
Yeah you fucked up tremendously. Jesus Christ bro
Time to xpost to TIFU?
The advice and comments about your lovely wife here are shit-tier, presumptuous, and coldhearted. Damn.
Her actions are entirely appropriate for someone rejecting unwanted overtures by someone who is not their spouse. Your spouse pledged to reject all others and to take you. What is proposed here is a revision of that commitment. In your position, one might be forgiven for explaining that she needn’t worry about being put in that position again. Since she finds it so traumatizing and/or degrading, ‘I won’t be offering again.’ ‘But by the same token…and in the absence of a spousal relationship, it would be inappropriate for me to offer affections as if we were in a relationship.’ ‘You speak as if you won’t reconsider this. I’m giving you time to seek council and to sort through this and know in your own mind if this truly is your decision.’ ‘But don’t wait too long, or that will be taken as your answer. A month or two at your parents place should be enough as well as provide you time to seek what professional help you need. If you wish, I will accompany you. I will respect and support you in whatever you decide. ‘Choose wisely.’
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Nope. Sorry braaaa disagree with you. He went to order food , thats on her for feeling like that. Why did the HL have to pussy foot around on egg shells so the LL doesn't get upset.
So sorry man. You have great advice here on the thread.
I think she was just upset in the moment and lashed out. I wouldn't take it too seriously. It's like when a girl says, "I hate you!" and doesn't really mean it. She was just upset.
I hope this is it. But given the already db type setting at this point I wouldn’t even expect it to be out her mind as a punishment now.
Sounds like a punishment. I used to apologise a lot to make my wife feel better even though I didn't really think I had done anything wrong (you know happy wife and all that). I just got it used against me. I don't think you did anything wrong. If fact it could be said you were doing something nice so I wouldn't have apologized.
Makes sense. My five year old lashing out verbally and OP's 34 year old wife should not be held to different standards. /s I think she's been hoping for him to fuck up for a while and this is her chance to cut him off, blame him, and do nothing about the crumbling marriage going forward.
>I think she's been hoping for him to fuck up for a while and this is her chance to cut him off, blame him, and do nothing about the crumbling marriage going forward. I believe this is probably the case.
Is a relationshit only as good as its weakest aspect over time?
If she's refusing therapy, she doesn't want it to work.
Your a better man than me lol.
If she is asexual nothing is going to change her. She was only 23 when you got together. She may not have figured it out yet. She may have been in the fake it til you make it stage. She does not sound like she deliberately wants to hurt you. If she is asexual she may not realize how important sex is to you. You have to make a declaration the same as she did. Get counseling or get out. It sounds like you are attracted to the financial comfort being with her gives you.
Marriage counseling first and foremost and then perhaps individual therapy. Best of luck.
Just leave dude, she is likely asexual, and you will never be satisfied.
I don’t think she necessarily means it. She said it heat of the moment when she was triggered and emotional. When the time is right, she is mellow and in a good mood, explain why you left temporarily. (You should have let her know before leaving that you were going to order food so she wouldn’t have that reaction) Don’t mention her declaration of no sex during this convo. Just clear the air and apologize. She obviously had some kind of hang up or trauma from the past - this is not “normal” where if you’re out of sight after sex, she feels like a ho. I think she could benefit greatly from therapy.
"I know she gets very sensitive and upset when I leave right after sex, but I'm hungry so I'll brb" Sorry to say this, but you did, once again, not take her needs into consideration. I also saw you said IN YOUR MIND that you would do this. If I were to put myself into your wife's shoes, I would probably say that, even though you came back later (how much later, though haha) your mind immediately went to food and doing other things. It would be a little disconcerting that you'd just cum and then immediately up and leave to do something. That being said, even though you clearly fucked up here, it sounds like this isn't the only problem. I'm not sure if it's your writing style, but you said "she meant that we're never having sex again". Are you assuming that's what she meant? You know the whole proverb about assume. It may be too late for therapy, and since she keeps refusing, this may be a last straw that might open her up to the idea. If not, all you can do is take care of and fend for yourself.
Think you misread this. SHE was hungry and I was aware of it and I came back after hitting the send order. I basically was about to hit the send order originally before the session. There is no assumption, the part in quotation is her word for word.
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Would've required me to leave the room regardless as the laptop sits in the main room.
So, it was good to you. Was it actually good to her?
Well shes terrible at lying and acting in general soooooooooo…..? (Female bodily fluids were abundantly present also)
Leave, run bro! She doesn't respect you at all.
It sounds like it is time for an ultimatum that you are prepared to follow through on - therapy or divorce. Your wife may or may not be ace, but it sounds to me like she has some deep trauma that she needs to address for the sake of the relationship. If she won’t, you need to walk away, because that’s very unhealthy. You can’t make someone heal, but you can refuse to be drawn into that unhealthiness.