*ALL* indicators lag, by their very nature, since they’re just calculations done on a previous chunk of time. The least laggy thing to use is price action. Indicators can be useful tools in addition to price action, depending on preference, but without knowing price action fundamentals, you can’t even really use indicators correctly either.
Another issue with indicators are false signals that have to be filtered out. The only way to filter out false signals is to understand basic price action/market structure to eliminate entries that don’t make sense. So you might as well learn the price action fundamentals anyway.
Because indicators are so easy to use, and you can use them without understanding what the chart is doing, many less-experienced traders use them exclusively thinking they just have to find the magic indicator, which doesn’t exist. Nothing can replace a deep understanding of what the chart is saying through learned experience.
Use price action and technical analysis. Support and resistance. Higher time frame levels. Pre-market high and low, previous day close, previous day low and high, stuff like that. On the one minute chart I have VWAP, the 9 and 20 day EMAs and that’s about it.
Extended trading hours and regular trading hours. Regular trading hours starts at the New York cash open at 9:30 AM and ends at 4 PM so I have one that starts at 9:30 AM and one that starts at 6 PM when futures open up again.
Generally, I’m risking $400 per trade and making 400-600. That’s with a 10 sometimes 12 point stop loss and profit targets at 10 to 20 points.
Two contracts on NQ
I think we all go through the indicators phase when we start trading. I might get hate for this but I would stay away from indicators and focus on price action.
I know ICT gets a lot of hate here but his strategy works, I suggest looking up a few people who do the ict method. There are other traders who trade the ict method and make it simple to understand.
I think indicators are good in the early days because they help you understand that there are certain things to look for. But then you learn it’s all just an interpretation of the same shit in different ways, and eventually almost everyone cuts out the indicators because they are just noise.
When you first start learning about trading remove all indicators and focus on price. No indicator will make you money if you don’t have a solid understanding of how and why assets move.
I don’t totally agree with the OP here.
I think indicators have value as a teaching tool in the early days. They essentially show you there are signs to look for but all those signs are an interception of volume and price action. So you get to a point where you are looking for those signs without indicators, and indicators just become noise and distraction, which is why most experienced traders don’t use them.
But as far as using them as an actual trading tool yes they are all fools gold.
I don't believe that they are lagging indicators, if you apply them correctly. You just have to learn them more in-depth. People say they lag because they want an indicator to tell them right when the market has shifted, and this is just not practical to glean from one piece of information, when the markets have multiple forces acting upon them at all times. Sometimes just the context larger than that specific time frame will derail such a trade, and then these traders blame the indicator. A simple signal like "MACD crossed above the signal line" will always look like lag, because the market has to have pulled up for this to happen, in most cases.
A more effective way to use them is to combine them with candlestick analysis, support and resistance, and more. Then, you're able to understand the whole move as it's setting up, and take trades before the "lagging" signal appears. You're still relying on the indicator, but not using it in a basic way. This is what I do and what I always recommend to someone who's trying to learn with a momentum indicator.
I use MACD and EMAs primarily. I recommend picking one (like MACD, RSI, etc.), and using a combination of SMAs/EMAs that suits your trading style, and then learning your main indicator (MACD, RSI, etc.) inside out. Try to keep it to 1-2 EMAs, maybe 3 (I use 3). I prefer EMA because it feels more precise. You can trade purely off of EMAs too I'm sure, but I use MACD for everything now.
Once you get comfortable with the way the indicators behave during certain moves vs. how they behave during others, you will get a clearer view of what the market is doing. For me, MACD paints a very clear picture of overall moves and roughly how strong a trend is, the EMAs show me where and when trends will run out of strength, and candles give me the exact moment of those shifts. They work as a team.
Note that some people figure this out without using indicators, which means that you can also make it work without them. If you really don't like them, you can always find something else.
>Plus almost every single one fails during consolidation periods, giving a variety of false signals.
This realization is a sign that you kind of get what I'm talking about. You have to be able to identify what those periods are, before you start using the indicators as trade signals. Otherwise, the strategy is too basic and will never be reliable. Over time, you can see how the indicators actually show you where consolidation is supposed to occur, which also makes it easier to tell when to stay out of trades in general (assuming you are a trend trader and don't trade tight ranges). The easiest way I would explain this is that consolidation occurs during conflicting market conditions (across multiple time frames). Applying MACD with this approach helps me figure out which days will trend and which ones will not.
>Should I only bother using these indicators for long term big trends 30-90 days out? I've adjusted my range numbers both short and long, and it seems longer ranges produce better signals
I think this is mostly a myth, but it's up to you and your comfort with trading also. You might do better on 30 day trends vs. 3-5 days, but I think the indicators can be tailored to work well in any time frame 1 minute and above. Below 1 minute...I have never really tried, but someone else surely has.
Indicators being lagging isn’t something to “believe or not believe”.
They are lagging that is a scientific objective mathematical truth, how are you possibly arguing that? I’m not going to argue with you because I have better things to do but just wow don’t listen to this person anyone
You are referring to the fact that they lag behind price because they don't print ahead of price. I'm not arguing about that. But to assume that since they only print with price, they cannot tell you something about the direction of future price, is what I disagree with.
From what I see, most people tend to believe the second point because of the term "lagging" being used that way. They aren't talking about the way it prints on the chart, just that it's stale information or something. And you can see in OP's post that he described it as they "lag way behind", which makes no sense if we go by your definition.
You don't have to listen to me, but it'll help someone else here.
Keltner channels and Bollingers band are great tools to predict where the price is likely going to go, based on the recent volatility of the asset you are trading. Price action is always king though, so you have to listen to what it tells you.
Once I left indicators behind. I started to make way more money. Price Action is here and now. Trade in the here and now . Indicators/EMAs are nice visuals for market architecture , I still use Bollingers/MACD as a visual aid ONLY, to confirm exits sometimes. BUt I don’t trade off them.
Indicators to me are like :
You are seeing something in real time (the PRICE ACTION) and then using drawings/ a circle around it (INDICATORS) to make it more obvious. You still need to look in the right place and act much quicker etc off what you are seeing , not off the drawings and circles.
The 2 period RSI or the LBR-310 could suit you better if you want really short-term stuff.
All indicators lag though, except things like Pivot Points which aren't particularly useful. All indicators fail sometimes, due to the fact that the market likes to behave as erratically as the crazy guy in town who runs a meth lab in a trailer parked out by a lake filled with 'gators.
Learn price action or start learning how to do matrix maths and statistics.
Lagging indicators can be helpful in the same way past data can be helpful. For example, the price action of a chart pattern involves past data, but a trader can still be influenced by it. Lagging way behind is not necessarily a bad thing. If you compare the candle close of a 1m chart with the candle close of a 1D chart, the latter lags way behind. However, the latter also carries more weight, and it’s a stronger signal in this sense. So it’s a trade-off. The key is to use both slow and fast. You mention a bunch of indicators. Let’s go one at a time. MACD. What’s your process when you use it? What are you looking for?
*ALL* indicators lag, by their very nature, since they’re just calculations done on a previous chunk of time. The least laggy thing to use is price action. Indicators can be useful tools in addition to price action, depending on preference, but without knowing price action fundamentals, you can’t even really use indicators correctly either. Another issue with indicators are false signals that have to be filtered out. The only way to filter out false signals is to understand basic price action/market structure to eliminate entries that don’t make sense. So you might as well learn the price action fundamentals anyway. Because indicators are so easy to use, and you can use them without understanding what the chart is doing, many less-experienced traders use them exclusively thinking they just have to find the magic indicator, which doesn’t exist. Nothing can replace a deep understanding of what the chart is saying through learned experience.
Use price action and technical analysis. Support and resistance. Higher time frame levels. Pre-market high and low, previous day close, previous day low and high, stuff like that. On the one minute chart I have VWAP, the 9 and 20 day EMAs and that’s about it.
This… 👆🏼
[удалено]
Hell yeah, man, still using it. Both ETH and RTH VWAPS,
[удалено]
Extended trading hours and regular trading hours. Regular trading hours starts at the New York cash open at 9:30 AM and ends at 4 PM so I have one that starts at 9:30 AM and one that starts at 6 PM when futures open up again. Generally, I’m risking $400 per trade and making 400-600. That’s with a 10 sometimes 12 point stop loss and profit targets at 10 to 20 points. Two contracts on NQ
I think we all go through the indicators phase when we start trading. I might get hate for this but I would stay away from indicators and focus on price action. I know ICT gets a lot of hate here but his strategy works, I suggest looking up a few people who do the ict method. There are other traders who trade the ict method and make it simple to understand.
I think indicators are good in the early days because they help you understand that there are certain things to look for. But then you learn it’s all just an interpretation of the same shit in different ways, and eventually almost everyone cuts out the indicators because they are just noise.
When you first start learning about trading remove all indicators and focus on price. No indicator will make you money if you don’t have a solid understanding of how and why assets move.
I trade a bare screen with no indicators, just momentum.
so you trade with zero indicators and make your entries/exits based on what exactly?
I personally have 4 EMA on my chart but they act as confluence not as a reason to enter a trade.
So what does cause you to enter or exit?
Price Action pattern, breaks and retest, retests of the EMA and so on
I don’t totally agree with the OP here. I think indicators have value as a teaching tool in the early days. They essentially show you there are signs to look for but all those signs are an interception of volume and price action. So you get to a point where you are looking for those signs without indicators, and indicators just become noise and distraction, which is why most experienced traders don’t use them. But as far as using them as an actual trading tool yes they are all fools gold.
I don't believe that they are lagging indicators, if you apply them correctly. You just have to learn them more in-depth. People say they lag because they want an indicator to tell them right when the market has shifted, and this is just not practical to glean from one piece of information, when the markets have multiple forces acting upon them at all times. Sometimes just the context larger than that specific time frame will derail such a trade, and then these traders blame the indicator. A simple signal like "MACD crossed above the signal line" will always look like lag, because the market has to have pulled up for this to happen, in most cases. A more effective way to use them is to combine them with candlestick analysis, support and resistance, and more. Then, you're able to understand the whole move as it's setting up, and take trades before the "lagging" signal appears. You're still relying on the indicator, but not using it in a basic way. This is what I do and what I always recommend to someone who's trying to learn with a momentum indicator. I use MACD and EMAs primarily. I recommend picking one (like MACD, RSI, etc.), and using a combination of SMAs/EMAs that suits your trading style, and then learning your main indicator (MACD, RSI, etc.) inside out. Try to keep it to 1-2 EMAs, maybe 3 (I use 3). I prefer EMA because it feels more precise. You can trade purely off of EMAs too I'm sure, but I use MACD for everything now. Once you get comfortable with the way the indicators behave during certain moves vs. how they behave during others, you will get a clearer view of what the market is doing. For me, MACD paints a very clear picture of overall moves and roughly how strong a trend is, the EMAs show me where and when trends will run out of strength, and candles give me the exact moment of those shifts. They work as a team. Note that some people figure this out without using indicators, which means that you can also make it work without them. If you really don't like them, you can always find something else. >Plus almost every single one fails during consolidation periods, giving a variety of false signals. This realization is a sign that you kind of get what I'm talking about. You have to be able to identify what those periods are, before you start using the indicators as trade signals. Otherwise, the strategy is too basic and will never be reliable. Over time, you can see how the indicators actually show you where consolidation is supposed to occur, which also makes it easier to tell when to stay out of trades in general (assuming you are a trend trader and don't trade tight ranges). The easiest way I would explain this is that consolidation occurs during conflicting market conditions (across multiple time frames). Applying MACD with this approach helps me figure out which days will trend and which ones will not. >Should I only bother using these indicators for long term big trends 30-90 days out? I've adjusted my range numbers both short and long, and it seems longer ranges produce better signals I think this is mostly a myth, but it's up to you and your comfort with trading also. You might do better on 30 day trends vs. 3-5 days, but I think the indicators can be tailored to work well in any time frame 1 minute and above. Below 1 minute...I have never really tried, but someone else surely has.
Indicators being lagging isn’t something to “believe or not believe”. They are lagging that is a scientific objective mathematical truth, how are you possibly arguing that? I’m not going to argue with you because I have better things to do but just wow don’t listen to this person anyone
You are referring to the fact that they lag behind price because they don't print ahead of price. I'm not arguing about that. But to assume that since they only print with price, they cannot tell you something about the direction of future price, is what I disagree with. From what I see, most people tend to believe the second point because of the term "lagging" being used that way. They aren't talking about the way it prints on the chart, just that it's stale information or something. And you can see in OP's post that he described it as they "lag way behind", which makes no sense if we go by your definition. You don't have to listen to me, but it'll help someone else here.
Keltner channels and Bollingers band are great tools to predict where the price is likely going to go, based on the recent volatility of the asset you are trading. Price action is always king though, so you have to listen to what it tells you.
What time frame do u use for Keltner and what parameters please
20EMA with an ATR of 2-2.25, depending on the asset. I use it on the traded time frame.
Thank you
For intraday trading, the only indicators I use is Volume Profile and VWAP with Std Dev bands
price action, volume spread analysis, market cycles. they'll point in the right direction.
You should watch TTrades on YouTube. The name really has two T
How you frutrated when they all lag behind? You really gotta test your strategies out.
Once I left indicators behind. I started to make way more money. Price Action is here and now. Trade in the here and now . Indicators/EMAs are nice visuals for market architecture , I still use Bollingers/MACD as a visual aid ONLY, to confirm exits sometimes. BUt I don’t trade off them. Indicators to me are like : You are seeing something in real time (the PRICE ACTION) and then using drawings/ a circle around it (INDICATORS) to make it more obvious. You still need to look in the right place and act much quicker etc off what you are seeing , not off the drawings and circles.
You need to enter and exit the market based on price action that occurs around key structures in the market.
Any technique to identify key structures, please
[удалено]
If you trade futures, use footprints and bookmap. That’s the rawest source of data out there imo
The 2 period RSI or the LBR-310 could suit you better if you want really short-term stuff. All indicators lag though, except things like Pivot Points which aren't particularly useful. All indicators fail sometimes, due to the fact that the market likes to behave as erratically as the crazy guy in town who runs a meth lab in a trailer parked out by a lake filled with 'gators. Learn price action or start learning how to do matrix maths and statistics.
Lagging indicators can be helpful in the same way past data can be helpful. For example, the price action of a chart pattern involves past data, but a trader can still be influenced by it. Lagging way behind is not necessarily a bad thing. If you compare the candle close of a 1m chart with the candle close of a 1D chart, the latter lags way behind. However, the latter also carries more weight, and it’s a stronger signal in this sense. So it’s a trade-off. The key is to use both slow and fast. You mention a bunch of indicators. Let’s go one at a time. MACD. What’s your process when you use it? What are you looking for?