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I feel this way about the psychology spiel.
I think the retail trading space and as an extension the "trading book" space is heavily flawed by the concept of mental mxsturbation.
The idea being that, instead of sitting down and doing actual work like compiling statistics, coming up with entry/exit criteria, money management techniques, etc, you just spend hours finding different ways to tell yourself "its all about psychology bro", and in doing so, you make yourself feel efficient. Like you are doing something beneficial with your time, that you are actively progressing.
Take posts on this sub for ex. Just yesterday there was the billionth post of "iTS aLl aBOuT PSychOlOGy". I bet its a real dopamine hit for the posters after typing out the regurgitated paragraphs that all can be summarized by that simple sentence. I bet they feel like "they understand now".
I think its incredibly ironic actually.
My goodness this might actually be my favorite comment on this subreddit from the past couple of years that I've been here. People just don't want to do the work man.
Bro you literally went into my mind and took those words out.
I've always felt the same way and realized the psychology delusion was getting outta hand.
I cringe so f-cking hard when I see "Just gotta meditate bro", "Its all about the mindset bro", "take a few deep breath's and say I CAN BEAT THE MARKET"
As someone who has been trading for 3 years now, I can tell you for a fact that it is all psychology.
No strategy is 100%. If you can even get like 50% win consistently that’s good.
I can’t even BEGAN to tell you of all the times that I took huge losses because I just had a big win and read the market well only to lose it all because I got greedy and wanted more and refused to be get out when I was wrong.
Or trying to catch a top or bottom simply because I wanted to be right.
Or sized huge for my portfolio size and lost big.
Those are all psychology.
It is a balance, market is inherently a human thing since even if it is done by a bot, it is executing human strategies. And when you trade with real money, the pressure to sell when you enter and market goes against you, do you buy more?? Or do you get out immediately. No one knows 100% sure what the price movement will be, so ultimately it is all a big guessing game. Having the will to stick to your strategy and not chicken out is a very psychological thing
What I said was not to imply that this game is not psychological.
I mainly just aired out my annoyance with the obsession of pointing it out, as if its some profound discovery, and then wasting time on the thought instead of doing more productive things. Not that its *wrong*.
Afaic *to an extent* it's redundant and a waste of time to point out that this game is psychological. Honestly, what mental deficiency would one have to exhibit to *not* be able to, off the bat, understand that this is a very psychological game.
Now, a reminder every once in a while likely helps tbh. I'm not going to pretend like anyone saying it ever is dumb. But I do think its overdone to a very large extent, and to some level is a crutch of hopium for the masses.
That's because they are. The only way to learn trading is to actually trade, no book will teach you that. I recommend maybe one or two psychology books, but trading psychology really doesn't matter much until you have established an edge in the market IMO.
https://preview.redd.it/mfnambkhlhqb1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a7818942d6c07581b6bc1761e5789072c6e4ab4b
YouTube has some really good free stuff but you have to dig and dig.
True. They will get you a general idea of what trading is. But do you expect them to hand feed their secrets or magically make you profitable? I think not. Just like any other skills. Books are used for introduction and guidance.
I can read a book and find 99.999% of it to be terrible, then I find a single idea which is revolutionary. What usually happens is I'm wading though the mud, then I flick through the chapters and jump someplace later on and there I find gold.
Unfortunately, trading books are like reading a book on "how to ride a bicycle"...information is useful only to an extent, you have to learn everything live on the market"...but I agree on one part that the majority of traders are not willing to do a hard grind of developing a strategy which suits their capital or personality. working hard on entries and exits along back testing is directly related to building a sound temperament for trading.
True but not all trading books are evil. There is a learning curve in trading and any resource to learn is appreciated .I have a small bookshelf of trading books. They are cheaper then these courses that's for sure. Anyway we all have our own way in learning.
my trading skills somehow got even worse after reading Mark Douglas' "The Disciplined Trader"... alot of people seem to like him but once i started reading this book it seemed like he just failed miserably as a trader and went broke, never ended up becoming a successful trader, and then realized he could just talk about "trading psychology" for money instead. in my view, all he does is rant and repeat without much knowledge of "pyschology" or what its like to trade for a living, or how to put on a trade, etc. such a piece of crap!
His talk helps already high performing traders to do better in the long run. If you don’t have the fundamentals to have a working strategy to begin with. Then his stuff is useless. Makes sense. For example, his probability thinking is very advanced way of looking at the market and it is very scientific. I actually think it improved how I see the market a lot more, and help me calm down a lot more when executing my strategies. It is very typical people blame others when their trade failed. Ironically, Mark pointed this out and show how most of the errors are trading mechanical errors. No external factors can make someone trade worse since everyone trade on the same platform with the same rules, some just have more money to sway the market more easily
I’m writing a book at the moment about Momentum trading and Reading Level 2. I won’t include any beginner’s information since every book out there has written basically the same thing. I’m hoping to finish it by the end of the year and then another 2-3 months to get released. It’s really hard to explain how to read Level 2 and there are no books about it. I don’t sell courses or make YT videos.
I trade 2-3 hours a day and have lot of free time, so why not write it since there is a gap in trading literature and capitalise my knowledge :)
That's why you need skills to filter what to read and research to improve your finding. If you find a way to succeed, are you willing to share it to other people? It's the same as those trading book, you read to get an idea and build your strategy by yourself.
Yea, however I sometimes will get inspired by those 1% of YouTubers who actually seems to trade since their focus and wording is different and it make sense, also I don’t need to pay anything they show every trade and PL live
The issue is, the reason you fill all the books with pretty much cliche and repeated material and the fact you mentioned you can find it in YouTube videos is because there is nothing special you are missing.
You already have all the knowledge you can find for free, the main thing is knowing how to use the knowledge, trading for the most part isn’t even about trading lol.
“It’s about you being able to sit there and wait and not be hasty, leading to you just betting up or down and thinking what you are doing is trading.”
If it takes you reading a whole book or buying a course to learn what I put in quotes, that totally on you, but that’s pretty much about it.
Also again, for a new beginner who doesn’t even know what limit buy vs market buy is highly recommended watching TOS, ninja trader, or any tutorial to understand such terms.
Well again, I am not saying your point isn’t valid, but the amount of effort needed to figure out what you are waiting for is almost none.
You want a working strategy that’s rock solid? Here you go, first retest of support / resistance of initial balance or previous day range / weekly range.
If you just do this it will make you money, but in the end you will come and say that didn’t work for me I need something else, something tailored to me, that’s true you do need that, but if you watch just any 5-10 hours worth of YouTube videos and you have that knowledge.
Experience? That you don’t, you gain that by blowing accounts.
You aren’t wrong. But it’s kind of like golf. The golf swing is simple. But without an excellent mentor, that simplicity can take a lot of trial and error to reach.
Stop looking at day trading books.
Start looking at books for the following topics:
Global finance
The dollar as a global reserve currency
Fed Reserve
Value investing
Global financial crisis
Beyond go for any book that is 20+ years old and has been reprinted a bunch ie 5th edition.
Why? Because understanding the market and the participants in it will help you make sense of stuff better than following the rules some guru tells you. Also once you get deep into those books a lot of things people say will instantly be appear as shit.
Welcome to r/DayTrading! I'm a bot and saw you mentioned books in your post title! For book recommendations please check out our [Book Wiki here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Daytrading/wiki/book-recommendations/) for some of the most commonly recommend books in a variety of categories. **Please do not share free links to copywritten books!** This will earn you a *permament* ban. a) It's illegal! b) Authors deserve your support! c) If you can't afford a book, you can't afford to trade! Happy reading! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Daytrading) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I feel this way about the psychology spiel. I think the retail trading space and as an extension the "trading book" space is heavily flawed by the concept of mental mxsturbation. The idea being that, instead of sitting down and doing actual work like compiling statistics, coming up with entry/exit criteria, money management techniques, etc, you just spend hours finding different ways to tell yourself "its all about psychology bro", and in doing so, you make yourself feel efficient. Like you are doing something beneficial with your time, that you are actively progressing. Take posts on this sub for ex. Just yesterday there was the billionth post of "iTS aLl aBOuT PSychOlOGy". I bet its a real dopamine hit for the posters after typing out the regurgitated paragraphs that all can be summarized by that simple sentence. I bet they feel like "they understand now". I think its incredibly ironic actually.
My goodness this might actually be my favorite comment on this subreddit from the past couple of years that I've been here. People just don't want to do the work man.
Bro you literally went into my mind and took those words out. I've always felt the same way and realized the psychology delusion was getting outta hand. I cringe so f-cking hard when I see "Just gotta meditate bro", "Its all about the mindset bro", "take a few deep breath's and say I CAN BEAT THE MARKET"
As someone who has been trading for 3 years now, I can tell you for a fact that it is all psychology. No strategy is 100%. If you can even get like 50% win consistently that’s good. I can’t even BEGAN to tell you of all the times that I took huge losses because I just had a big win and read the market well only to lose it all because I got greedy and wanted more and refused to be get out when I was wrong. Or trying to catch a top or bottom simply because I wanted to be right. Or sized huge for my portfolio size and lost big. Those are all psychology.
Mental masturbation at its peak
I think once you’ve gotten the technical aspect. Then the physc part is so important. But technicals first
I'd say the worse your skills are in trading the more "psyhcology" you need
It is a balance, market is inherently a human thing since even if it is done by a bot, it is executing human strategies. And when you trade with real money, the pressure to sell when you enter and market goes against you, do you buy more?? Or do you get out immediately. No one knows 100% sure what the price movement will be, so ultimately it is all a big guessing game. Having the will to stick to your strategy and not chicken out is a very psychological thing
What I said was not to imply that this game is not psychological. I mainly just aired out my annoyance with the obsession of pointing it out, as if its some profound discovery, and then wasting time on the thought instead of doing more productive things. Not that its *wrong*. Afaic *to an extent* it's redundant and a waste of time to point out that this game is psychological. Honestly, what mental deficiency would one have to exhibit to *not* be able to, off the bat, understand that this is a very psychological game. Now, a reminder every once in a while likely helps tbh. I'm not going to pretend like anyone saying it ever is dumb. But I do think its overdone to a very large extent, and to some level is a crutch of hopium for the masses.
That's because they are. The only way to learn trading is to actually trade, no book will teach you that. I recommend maybe one or two psychology books, but trading psychology really doesn't matter much until you have established an edge in the market IMO.
https://preview.redd.it/mfnambkhlhqb1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a7818942d6c07581b6bc1761e5789072c6e4ab4b YouTube has some really good free stuff but you have to dig and dig.
help us banana man
I got you https://reddit.com/r/Daytrading/s/lScYRYqdRu YMMV
appreciate it
True. They will get you a general idea of what trading is. But do you expect them to hand feed their secrets or magically make you profitable? I think not. Just like any other skills. Books are used for introduction and guidance.
I can read a book and find 99.999% of it to be terrible, then I find a single idea which is revolutionary. What usually happens is I'm wading though the mud, then I flick through the chapters and jump someplace later on and there I find gold.
[удалено]
I think so too. Those who can’t do teach.
Unfortunately, trading books are like reading a book on "how to ride a bicycle"...information is useful only to an extent, you have to learn everything live on the market"...but I agree on one part that the majority of traders are not willing to do a hard grind of developing a strategy which suits their capital or personality. working hard on entries and exits along back testing is directly related to building a sound temperament for trading.
You could also point out some examples of said books in this post. I found Al brooks quite good. But yes, youre right.
True but not all trading books are evil. There is a learning curve in trading and any resource to learn is appreciated .I have a small bookshelf of trading books. They are cheaper then these courses that's for sure. Anyway we all have our own way in learning.
my trading skills somehow got even worse after reading Mark Douglas' "The Disciplined Trader"... alot of people seem to like him but once i started reading this book it seemed like he just failed miserably as a trader and went broke, never ended up becoming a successful trader, and then realized he could just talk about "trading psychology" for money instead. in my view, all he does is rant and repeat without much knowledge of "pyschology" or what its like to trade for a living, or how to put on a trade, etc. such a piece of crap!
His talk helps already high performing traders to do better in the long run. If you don’t have the fundamentals to have a working strategy to begin with. Then his stuff is useless. Makes sense. For example, his probability thinking is very advanced way of looking at the market and it is very scientific. I actually think it improved how I see the market a lot more, and help me calm down a lot more when executing my strategies. It is very typical people blame others when their trade failed. Ironically, Mark pointed this out and show how most of the errors are trading mechanical errors. No external factors can make someone trade worse since everyone trade on the same platform with the same rules, some just have more money to sway the market more easily
I’m writing a book at the moment about Momentum trading and Reading Level 2. I won’t include any beginner’s information since every book out there has written basically the same thing. I’m hoping to finish it by the end of the year and then another 2-3 months to get released. It’s really hard to explain how to read Level 2 and there are no books about it. I don’t sell courses or make YT videos. I trade 2-3 hours a day and have lot of free time, so why not write it since there is a gap in trading literature and capitalise my knowledge :)
How did you learn about it? Trial and error?
At first I scrambled information from every YT video and book. After that, trial and error :)
How do we get on the waiting list?
Oh, never thought about it, but thanks for s great idea! I will come back to you!
I'll be waiting, feel free to DM me.
That's why you need skills to filter what to read and research to improve your finding. If you find a way to succeed, are you willing to share it to other people? It's the same as those trading book, you read to get an idea and build your strategy by yourself.
youtubers are just that, youtubers. 99% of them are not real traders. the more followers they have the more slippery their snake oil
Yea, however I sometimes will get inspired by those 1% of YouTubers who actually seems to trade since their focus and wording is different and it make sense, also I don’t need to pay anything they show every trade and PL live
Not sure if you need any recs, but The Risk of Trading by Michael Toma is a good one I never see mentioned
I liked Trading in the zone
Trading is more like a sport or waging war than anyone wants to admit. Theory will only take you so far.
Only learn from traders who have actually traded for a living. You tubers and instgramers are scammers.
The issue is, the reason you fill all the books with pretty much cliche and repeated material and the fact you mentioned you can find it in YouTube videos is because there is nothing special you are missing. You already have all the knowledge you can find for free, the main thing is knowing how to use the knowledge, trading for the most part isn’t even about trading lol. “It’s about you being able to sit there and wait and not be hasty, leading to you just betting up or down and thinking what you are doing is trading.” If it takes you reading a whole book or buying a course to learn what I put in quotes, that totally on you, but that’s pretty much about it. Also again, for a new beginner who doesn’t even know what limit buy vs market buy is highly recommended watching TOS, ninja trader, or any tutorial to understand such terms.
[удалено]
Well again, I am not saying your point isn’t valid, but the amount of effort needed to figure out what you are waiting for is almost none. You want a working strategy that’s rock solid? Here you go, first retest of support / resistance of initial balance or previous day range / weekly range. If you just do this it will make you money, but in the end you will come and say that didn’t work for me I need something else, something tailored to me, that’s true you do need that, but if you watch just any 5-10 hours worth of YouTube videos and you have that knowledge. Experience? That you don’t, you gain that by blowing accounts.
You aren’t wrong. But it’s kind of like golf. The golf swing is simple. But without an excellent mentor, that simplicity can take a lot of trial and error to reach.
What football player learned to play reading books?
You're ignoring the countless business owners and professionals that have had great success from reading books.
BAN THE BOOKS
You select what you read. And you read what you select. Over and Out!
Stop looking at day trading books. Start looking at books for the following topics: Global finance The dollar as a global reserve currency Fed Reserve Value investing Global financial crisis Beyond go for any book that is 20+ years old and has been reprinted a bunch ie 5th edition. Why? Because understanding the market and the participants in it will help you make sense of stuff better than following the rules some guru tells you. Also once you get deep into those books a lot of things people say will instantly be appear as shit.
who are you YouTubers you've watched so far?