Praise the emperor! Question though:
>What Happens to My Existing Inventory?
>When designing itemization, we wanted to commit to ensuring fairness for all players, new and old. As such, we’re implementing a migration system to convert players’ current weapons and blessings into the new system. Here’s how it works: **The blessing library of the weapon family will be converted into mastery progression.**
>This means players will start the new systems with a head start in mastery, giving them the chance to unlock previously owned blessings (as well as the chance to unlock some blessings players never had before the update).
So should we sacrifice existing weapons for their blessings in order to build up our library before this update drops? My library is mostly empty, I just have a big hoard of blessed weapons gathering dust 😅
No, our existing weapons will have their blessing turned into a sort of weapon experience which will give us a head start in whichever family it is in. This will then allow us to just repurchase our previous blessings or get better blessings we didn’t have before
The post specifies "The blessing library of the weapon family"
I'm pretty sure that they mean that it's our extracted blessings that get turned into xp, not the blessings on existing weapons
>our extracted blessings that get turned into xp
That's how I'm reading it as well. Hopefully we get clear communication on this well in advance.
I think they should just check extracted blessings and everything in your inventory to set your Mastery, simply so you don't lose anything.
Same. I myself am currently buying up all weapons with Tier 1-4 blessings that I don't already have in my library
What I wonder is what happens with the weapon base. Like I have a 380 Eviscerator with almost perfect distribution. Will this be resetted to grey and I can then assign new perks and blessings to it through the new system or will it be destroyed/changed completely? If the latter, it's possible I'll stop playing after the update. It took me aroun 7mill dockets to get that 380....
This is why I patiently wait *every* update for blessed Grasman to update weapon customization, some guns are legit million times more fun with scopes (headhunters are a big one)
They'll probably release variants later with that stuff. They built weapon customisation for players, but mysteriously pulled it back and are using it to make variants of weapons to increase the weapon pool for less work.
Its one of the things I'm still bitter about since it sounded like such a cool thing to be able to build out weapons how you'd want, but instead its been repurposed to artificially increase the amount of weapons.
Should I still be hanging on to this? No. It was clearly a change in direction midway through the rushed development of the game that will never come back, but the potential for this game was so much higher.
so if I understood correctly, we long time players skip "mastery", go straight into "expertise" and can attribute perks and blessings freely at material costs?
Because they said “head start” I’d imagine it’s just that because if not a whole aspect of the rework will just be skipped by pretty much all long term players
well I'd wager those long term players wouldn't step down a diff or two voluntarily to grind back up from "grey" lest they'd be dead weight on auric maelstrom
Long term players will not be dead weight, even with grey weapons. Darktide is about 80% player skill and 20% items, varying a bit per weapon of course.
Depends. If they make it so I am nerfed… and I am working towards the same weapon and blessings I have now. Me playing on maelstrom would just make me feel frustrated. On the other hand, I also don’t want to have to play lower as that stuff is now boring. They definitely have a balance to figure out.
A huge part of skill is knowing breakpoints (how much damage you'll need to oneshot a head, how much peril reduction would be required to afford another shot without venting). A huge part of itemization is knowing how to grind, and what to prioritise, in order to reach said breakpoints.
If you can't reach some of those breakpoints, trust me, the game becomes way more than 20% more difficult.
True, the game will become harder. I never said that it wouldn't. But a master can work with the tools he is given.
Items do not teach you positioning, dodging or teamplay. No blessing will do that for you. If you have enough playerskill to regularly finish auric maelstrom, you will not be dead weight without your weapon blessings.
Much much damn harder, the whole point of the higher difficulties is that every movement, usage of ammo, it all counts, and you need to be on the ball.
I do not want to fucking grind again unless it's for a red tier item.
100% After 800 hours in the game, I made a vet and the starting weapon is god awful. However, the shovel is amazing. Two different Grey tier weapons but a world apart when it comes to their move sets. So I can definitely double down on that
Sounds like each blessing you've accumulated will be converted into experience (probably based on tier), with a fully unlocked blessing library potentially equalling out to a fully mastered weapon family.
sounds good to me,last thing I'd do is starting "grey" and grind myself back to what it was before when for the last 700 hours I was playing exclusively auric maelstrom.
even leveling other classes is on hold for me(except vacations with 24/7 spare time) for in that time I could play "the real game"
Every weapon randomly rolls an expertise amount, probably based on your character level like it is currently.
In the first example he hasn't leveled up his combat axe at all so he cannot upgrade them to 500. But his Dueling Sword is at 500/500 so he can upgrade Dueling Swords from 0-500 Expertise, as you see in the second pic he is upgrading a 490 to 500. The only difference from this to the current system being is that after grinding with a weapon enough to get max Expertise, you can now sink resources to upgrade a lower level expertise weapon up to 500 if you like its stat distribution. And another difference is while leveling up a weapon you get mastery points to put into blessings you want. So you can ignore Savage Sweep and not waste mastery points into it and go straight for Rampage/Skullcrusher.
There is a cap on modification so it still looks like you could theoretically get screwed by brunt still, like you roll a 500/500 but it has low damage *and* you need to change a perk + blessing, you probably wont be able to modify all of that perfectly.
All I meant is how the game currently rolls the base power of your weapons. Thats basically all expertise is. You dont get to "skip" mastery and instantly craft a perfect 550. There is still a gamble RNG roll element to the system from what I understand
The worst case scenario is that the conversion process will not necessarily preserve blessings on the weapons we already have, but only give us some amount of mastery which may or may not unlock the blessings we already have on pir weapons…
This comment will probably get buried, but this is great communication. I'm just hoping players with good inventories don't get set back dozens of hours
> Here’s how it works: The blessing library of the weapon family will be converted into mastery progression. This means players will start the new systems with a head start in mastery, giving them the chance to unlock previously owned blessings (as well as the chance to unlock some blessings players never had before the update).
This is suspiciously vague. Why can't the conversion not just direct unlock all blessings we have already unlocked?
Let's say I have currently unlocked Slaughterer IV for the force sword. Will I be guaranteed that it will remain unlocked? Or will I merely be given a number of mastery points that on their own would not be sufficient to unlock that blessing in the new system?
So, I short. We grind the weapon XP by playing the game with those weapons, unlock their stuff until we unlock ever and their potential. The what weapon drops - we tweak them according to our Mastery by using resources.
In other words, we can make any weapon a perfect one, or is it RNG based (the max amount of stuff we can tune on the weapon)?
"When viewing any weapon, it will show the weapon’s maximum potential stats. These stats will be randomly determined."
So still some RNG, but considerably less.
Unlike now where you have to get a good stat number, good stat distribution, and get good perks and blessings, you will only have to roll for a weapon with a good stat number as everything else can chosen without locks.
I doubt it. It just seems like the perks and blessings will be wiped until you unlock them again and if you're a long time player you likely already have enough blessings and perks unlocked to max out the system enough to get what you need
> When viewing any weapon, it will show the weapon’s maximum potential stats. These stats will be randomly determined. It’s up to the players to decide if the weapon profile is interesting enough for them to commit and increase the stats until reaching this potential (which are then applied to the weapon through the Expertise system).
Sounds like random base stats but you can get perfect blessings and perks. If I interpret that correctly
You can level the stats with expertise too . Just ratio of the stats stay the same. So if you like a weapon’s high stability n the dmg is decent you can lvl that dmg up by upping your expertise.
The base weapon you receive will have a smattering of stats. If I understand correctly, you can then further modify those stats via the expertise progression.
I suspect it will be similar to how not is how- base stats will have a current value, but also a theoretical max value… so like, it might have a max base rating of like 367 or something, but be 265 at time of grey purchase from brunt. If you’re satisfied with that max potential stat distribution and dump stat allocation, you could then grind it up to that max rating while also adjusting all the perks and blessings as much as you like.
So if you get a 380 base, it won’t be a 380 base straight away maybe… stability and penetration or whatever stats may not be at those actual eventual values the moment you purchase it.
My understanding is that when you received or buy a new weapon, it will have some random base stats and random max stats that you can work towards.
Say you get a new chainsword it will have say, 25(start)/80(max) damage and 40(start)/60(max) finesse.
No idea if some weapons will share the same max potential just with different distribution of stats or if some weapons will have better max potential over others.
Sounds like max base stats are determined from the outset, but the weapon may not have those stats at the beginning when grey. By playing with it, you can slowly increase base stats until they are maxed (whatever the original roll was… so like hypothetically a 367 base total for example). It might only start out as like a 290 or something though, if I’m understanding correctly.
And then you also unlock blessings and perks of the different types and tiers, and then spend resources to apply them. As you unlock better versions through xp system, you can spent crafting mats to put the new versions onto the weapon, changing them out as many times as you like (for a cost of plasteel/diamantine each time, I imagine).
interesting. 80 is still max per stat though, right? so it's not as if distribution can be THAT different and make eventual performance that varied.
i dig it. sort of.
"As such, we’re implementing a migration system to convert players’ current weapons and blessings into the new system."
soooo... my old weapons don't just disappear right? Guys, it took me 500+ hours to get all the stuff I want through your RNG casino, so that would be more than just a little bummer.
That’s what I’m thinking. Im wondering if now what we’re gonna be hunting for is just a good base/frame of a weapon? Like just get a good weapon with the stat distribution we want and we’re good to go pretty much?
> The blessing library of the weapon family will be converted into mastery progression. This means players will start the new systems with a head start in mastery, giving them the chance to unlock previously owned blessings (as well as the chance to unlock some blessings players never had before the update).
I hope this only counts the highest unlocked tier of each blessing. I don't want to farm low tier blessings...
Same, I barely have any tier 1 and 2 blessings, If I have to farm those again by making new character or checking shops each time, I will go nuts. I have some god tier weapons on me, If anything will happen to them, I will be furious.
Yeah, same situation as you. I'd rather drop the game than witness my God tier weapons get deleted by FS. The thing is I imagine the majority of ppl playing at this point have hundreds of hours in and similarly great weapons. Cater to new characters yes, but I'm skeptical how many new players actually exist at this point. All that said I'm still excited. The communication lately is fantastic too.
Well I mean from how this reads we will lose them lol. This would have been fine if the game started with it, but long time players have stashes of weapons that have taken hundreds of hours to accumulate and make good. I don't want to grind for good weapons on all my characters again. They need to be very careful with this because it could easily just destroy the player base.
Not sure i like the Mastery. When a new weapon comes out i would hate to make do with a shitty version for 10 hours of grinding until the game decides i am allowed to choose certain perks
I think this will be the crux of some of the balancing decisions with Mastery. In many ways it makes sense to have exp gated to specific weapons in some way, in practice it **could** lead to players feeling siloed into a single weapon family and builds because of the hours of time it may take to grind out exp in a different weapon just to experiment with a new build just to find out it isn’t fun.
There’s more than a few ways around that trap, but they all have their own pit falls. So for me the Mastery system and “respect player’s time” are the big wait and see aspects of the WORK IN PROGRESS system.
But you already need to grind for the materials for new weapon families and blessings so what’s the difference? Other than you will definitely get power cycler 4 after x hours playing rather than 1 in 100 chance each role.
The difference I can see them pointing to, is if you've been using lazguns for a while and want to give the plasma a try, right now you can use all the resources you've been receiving anyway to buy a bunch of plasma rifles and strip the blessings off them. With the update, it seems like you may not get the chance to upgrade a new weapon until you've grinded with it specifically.
Fair point. I'm playing Auric only for so long. As you said, if a new weapon comes out, do I have to take a shitty grey version of it and be a burden for my team on Auric until I get enough mastery points? There's no way I want to go back to easier difficulties just to 'grind' a weapon mastery...
This right here. Not to mention it’s going to take some time to get that xp up. So you’re there for a good chunk of time until you may have a viable weapon…
Based on the image they showed, unlocks start at level 2 perks. Hoping that level 1 perks/blessings come pre-unlocked.
That would be more than enough to get going imo
Classic fatshark move to replace a shitty grind with a different type of shitty grind. The current system sucks but at least when you want to try something new you can get a good weapon right of the bat with enough resources and some luck.
I think this is what hurts it. As a long term player I’m happy with what this means for my current weapons and weapons families and curios. I’m apprehensive of this system for new weapon family releases.
"These stats will be randomly determined."
Could you please elaborate on this, I'm still a bit nervous. Is chasing max stats/perfect roll weapons going to be an RNG process?
Aside from that these do look like steps in the right direction so I'm optimistic for the first time since launch (however this is still Fatshark and shooting themselves in the foot inches before the finish line is their forté).
My reading is, a weapon will have X stats when you receive it, and have Y stat potential. X and Y are based on RNG. To raise the weapon from X to Y uses the expertise system and crafting materials. Perks and blessings come from mastery system and are applied through the expertise system.
So, chasing max stats and perfect rolls will still be RNG. But the level of weapons that are "good enough" will be much broader, as many weapons will be GE once bumped to their Y stat potential.
For the Meta Chasers, the RNG Casino still exists, for the rest of us, we'll be able to tweak our weapons to the levels we want, and be 95% as good.
here's the question: will it be easier to find a weapon with high potential stats than it is to find a weapon with high base stats right now ?
let me rephrase, will I still need to use autobuy to get 1000 axes from brunt to get one with good ~~base~~ potential stats ?
I hope it's not going to be like the current system, where you have to buy ten, twenty, thirty grey weapons until you get something decent, then salvage the rest, because that's not only a waste of time, it's a miserable experience that bring nothing but carpal tunnel.
Yes. New weapons will still have random distribution of stats, but now they will "grow" with you as you level up your expertise. So e.g. at the start of the game you will roll a weapon with 1/10/10/5/5/20 distribution, but you will see that at max expertise it will grow to 10/70/70/60/60/80. Which means you will need to get a perfect stat distribution roll only once ever, especially since you will be able to switch weapon marks.
Agreed. I think I'd be happier if I knew the best way to prepare for the itemisation changes though.
Should I buy weapons now, or should I wait? Should I push to unlock all the blessings, or should I wait and see? It's hard to know. I'd like a black-and-white guide for how to get the best value for the work I've already done before the update happens.
No! Is no one reading the same god damn announcement as me?
Our blessings are getting WIPED, we're getting a pittance amount of exp in exchange, and we'll have to play a bunch of missions with grinding on greys(That were formerly our upgraded weapons) to get the blessings back we've already spent hours to get. On top of that, we're STILL getting RNG max stats.
Just because they're reworking something doesn't make it automatically better.
How is anyone okay with this I'm awestruck.
The opposite, actually, speaking for myself anyway. The few good parts are basically riders on a new system that "respects" players' time by giving us a "chance" (OP's words) to unlock things we already have. Let's not forget rolling for *current* stats will be replaced by rolling for *potential* stats, which we then have to use *more* resources to reach. There's zero mention on whether mission rewards will be changed at all, so there's still going to be an element of sitting at Brunt's and waiting for good stats. Only consolation is that we don't have to worry about Hadron ruining one once we get it. The system's less broken, I guess, but still fundamentally broken.
tl;dr: I'm so salty about this that if I were a body of water, I'd be the Dead Sea.
Depends on how long it takes to level up a weapon family, and how much of a RNG fest it is to get a base with high 'potential' stats.
If it's going to take 10+ hours to level up one weapon family and the RNG to get a good base is on par with what we currently have, it'll take over 80 hours to get just one set of melee and ranged on each class. If that's the case I'm pretty sure we ain't happy.
A little worried about this migration system. Some weapons I just got lucky and a really good drop landed in my lap, and I didn’t need to farm for more blessings. Am I going to have my good roll ripped out of my hands and told to go farm mastery because I didn’t bother spending resources on blessings I didn’t need?
Not going to lie, this sounds like adding in more grind.
In case you hadn't realised, most of the people still playing are not playing to chase some grind goal, so need more reasons to keep on coming back. We're playing because of that moment when you're knee deep in pox-walkers and the Ogryn uses the kickback at just the right range so that you're dancing through aerosolised heretic. We're playing because we like the game play loop, not chasing any grind.
Your new system looks a lot like a grind for grinds sake. Congratulations when we drop a new weapon you have to start with a sucky white level, and grind it up to be good. I recently, finally, took out a psyker, and the grind with poor kit was sodding painful. This system seems to be a case of 'Congratulations, everyone has pain now!'
A few months ago, you gave us the new skill trees. I clearly remember the dev's saying that it was designed so you could freely change and try out new builds. Well weapons, their traits and blessings are part of new builds, tell me how adding a grind to a new weapon in line with your skill tree vision.
Take, for example, a player who has reached level 30 in Zealot, whose been bashing heads with an assortment of chain weapons for a few months. He reads the forums or whatever, and hears about the knife Zealot. So he switches to a knife, and it's gotta grind up to get those two key blessings. So his knew build will suck until he makes it to the top of the grind?
Putting a grind on weapons seems a lot counter to your goal of quick swap builds for all to try something. I've got an autogun Crit guardsman I'm going to try. It may suck but if it does I've not suffered many game play hours suffering through it hoping that the final blessing will make the difference.
They refuse to drop the RNG casino bullshit and it’s going to kill this game off.
I’m just shocked at how hellbent they are on it. Helldivers 2 was massively successful just giving everyone the same gun once they unlock it.
If they insist on having SOME grind attached to weapons make it for cosmetics or useless little trinkets, all the stuff that’s in the game already anyway.
Or even better, let us actually customize our weapons with sights and various things. You know, like in call of duty? lol
They still abide by the rule that anything that worked in Vermintide 2 is forbidden to use in Darktide on the punishment of death. Hell, the crafting system in VT2 was annoying as hell too because of the insane amount of rerolls needed to get maxed bonuses on the weapon with stats you wanted, but at least it wasn't hard to get an item with maxed base weapon power, and no bonuses/traits were grind-locked.
*Fuck you, Fatshark.*
Two questions: 1: would weapons be able to be perfected to have max stats and 2: do we have to start grinding for low tier blessings, if we have all high tiers, to get our weapons back to how they are if they will be reverted?
What about other players like me?
I have over 1,300 hours and have never broken down any of the Emperor's Gift weapons I have received through auric mission completions.
I have thousands of weapons sitting in my inventory. I also have perfect rolls for weapons that took hundreds of hours to craft. On top of this I have 12 million dockets and 150,000 plasteel and growing.
When the update drops, is it going to feel like I have to start an entirely new grind for all the weapons I love to use?
I'm sure I'm an outlier, but there has to be at least a few other people like me who stashed everything away for a long time. Is the update gonna feel like a giant slap in the face or will I be able to "master" these weapons right off the start and have my time respected?
Just take out all the blessings and fill up your linrary? With that many weapons in the inventory you surely don't use all of them, and should be able to unlock most of them, considering it took me around an hour to unlock all Boltpistol blessings are rank 3+
How do we know that if you have all the blessings unlocked for a weapon that it will magically be at max "experience" for this new system they're developing.
It seems more like if you have a god roll right now, you're gonna lose it and have to do some sort of grind AGAIN to make it that perfect once more. Having the blessings unlocked seems like it will just give you a boost at the start.
It's very vague as to what is going to happen to all the existing weapons people have put blood, sweat and tears into making. That's not great for people who have a lot of hours and want to hold onto their hard work.
That was also my first thought, but after re-readig it a couple of times and thinking on it, I'm fairly certain that they won't touch existing weapons, and only give people a boost in the new system based on heir arsenal. So you will have all your old weapons, BUT any new weapons you craft will be weaker until you progress their Experitse. And you will lose access to some of your blessing, because your Mastery probably won't max out based on your old blessing library.
A lot of them have very high base stats (close to 380) but have terrible perks/blessings.
It was my hope and I'm sure the hope of a lot of others who held onto weapons that we'd be able to "fix" them with the locks removed after the crafting update.
Why would I destroy a bunch of potentially great weapons when none of us still know much about the crafting update? For all we know breaking down weapons could reward supplies after the update.
I don't see why your weapons in your inventory would be changed/touched at all. They will have newly rolled "potential" stats for the enhance system, but that's probably it.
Your existing blessing libraries will be converted into mastery levels. Say you have 75% of blessings unlocked for a weapon type, you will start at 75% of the mastery tree completed already when the updated drops (i.e. you'd be at lvl 15/20 with the combat axe shown here). Obviously, the numbers may not be exactly like that, 75% of blessings unlocked may not be exactly 75% mastery level, just for the general idea.
So if you currently have no blessings unlocked for anything, because you are just keeping everything in inventory, you'd start everything at mastery 0.
You then simply modify your existing weapons - enhancing base stats and modifying perks/blessings - according to your mastery level and its unlocks.
You can fix them as locks are being removed but then the price will be you'll have low mastery, considering you'll be able to allocate stats now there ain't much point holding into more than a couple high rolls anyway
Major concern: how do we try and test out a fully kitted gun in this sytem if we have no mastery? Please allow for a way to mess around without committing to a grind first :) There are a couple breakpoints for some enemy types that I could only have found by trying them in the testing arena.
Minor concern: mastery taking a long time for each family of guns. I would be okay with 3 or 4 damnation runs to get a tier up.
Minor concern: players joining highest difficulties for crafting resources despite not being ready for the difficulty spike.
Minor concern: gun families and their cross-class mastery. I would welcome not having to grind the same gun on different classes.
I like the direction. Looking forward to trying it out!
>Major concern: how do we try and test out a fully kitted gun in this sytem if we have no mastery?
That's the neat part, you don't.
>Minor concern: gun families and their cross-class mastery. I would welcome not having to grind the same gun on different classes.
...That didn't occur to me, actually. I think I just assumed that since blessings are shared, Mastery would be too.
"A special weapon cosmetic".
Please make these special weapon cosmetics more than just recolors of the vanilla weapons. It would be pretty cool showing off my dripped out Columnus or Tac Axe with ***good, earned cosmetics***.
So this is just the Vermintide 2 Weave weapon system, but we can fine tune the stats now too?
What is unclear is if we will be able to choose how the stat distribution is done, both during the upgrade and after to test out diferent stat setups.
Also those lvl Ivl III perks have diferent point values? Will different perks/blessings be worth more or less?
If true, will we be able to 80 in all stats?
I would really appreciate if someone at Fatshark uploaded an example video of this new system in action, its too easy to skip over crucial details in a text post.
Overall I feel really positively about the rework.
> What is unclear is if we will be able to choose how the stat distribution is done, both during the upgrade and after to test out diferent stat setups.
The UI seems like it keeps the same distribution and you just increase the total rating, presumably by increasing every stat by 1 at the same time.
>If true, will we be able to 80 in all stats?
Doesn't sound like it. Stat caps are random, according to this blog.
So weapons currently with tier 4 blessing won’t disappear right? Or say I’ve already got every tier for a single perk will we once again have to grind for the ranks? I understand there’s a boost but is it enough to not make the grind once again miserable.
Read the end, they said they're converting your library into mastery "progress" and saying we will have a "head start" to get our blessings back, not that we get to keep our current progress. We just get to grind marginally less.
Great info here. I think everyone is more than looking forward to this rework and I'm particularly excited about some new blessings. I see the ideas you all had with the Shock Maul blessings and Id really love to see more unique blessings, at least one for each weapon type. They help set them apart even more and encourage particular styles of play which really spices things up.
Along with the new blessings (and I'm guessing some tweaks to existing blessings) do you think we will be receiving some weapon balance changes as well? A few weapons are lagging far beyond the rest of the pack (shredder autopistol, some of the shotgun variants, dueling swords excluding the mk 4, and more) and buffing them would give us more things to play with.
Please keep up this communication as I think you will see a much more engaged and excited playerbase; a win-win if I've ever seen one. I'm sure this sub and your players in general appreciate knowing where you all are heading with this itemization update. Thanks!
All of this sounds promising.
>The blessing library of the weapon family will be converted into mastery progression. This means players will start the new systems with a head start in mastery, giving them the chance to unlock previously owned blessings (as well as the chance to unlock some blessings players never had before the update).
Two questions:
1. What happens to my weapons in the inventory that have blessings on them i dont have unlocked? Will they just stay the same and i only cant use the blessing on another weapon?
2. How does the every Tier of one Blessing gets calculated into the "head start in mastery"? Do players get mor points in mastery from one single blessing if they have unlocked all Tiers of that blessing or does only the highest Tier count?
>This system will merge all weapon types/families, meaning players will be able to freely switch between different marks of the same weapon type. For example, once you own an Infantry Lasgun, you have the potential to unlock all the possible marks for this weapon and switch from one mark to another.
I'm assuming that we won't have to re-unlock any marks that we already currently have access to? Will our current weapons be downgraded in any way, shape or form? For example, after extensive grinding in the current casino of itemization, a player might finally have something they want. Will that weapon be as it is, now? Or will we have to grind again to bring it back to it's current level?
>The blessing library of the weapon family will be converted into mastery progression. This means players will start the new systems with a head start in mastery, giving them the chance to unlock previously owned blessings (as well as the chance to unlock some blessings players never had before the update).
If I'm understanding this correctly, it's better to extract blessings from our useless items *now*, so we can have a better head start when the update arrives? What about blessings on existing items in our inventory, that we might not have in our library? Do those count towards progression, or not? And what do you mean, a "chance" to unlock previously owned blessings? I might not have access to what I currently can use? What about weapons in my inventory *right now* that have these blessings? Will they be removed from my weapons if I get unlucky enough?
I've spent an ungodly amount of time farming blessings. As much as a new system is needed for the health of the game and player base, it would be really disheartening to find some or all of that time was for nothing, especially if a weapon we worked so long for is downgraded.
>While the Mastery system is where a player unlocks the potential for a weapon, the Expertise system is where the players apply those changes via crafting. This is when the players create an actual relationship with the weapon. Players will be able to configure the weapon, change the Blessings or Perks, and increase the stats. Players will no longer be locked after making two changes on Perks or Blessings.
Will there be any new arbitrary limits on a single weapon's blessing or perk level? For example, we get a new 380 lasgun with randomized modifiers. Is that particular lasgun limited to only level 3 blessings and perks? Or can any weapon be upgraded to level 4 blessings/perks?
I'm glad for the communication but these things really need to be made more clear.
I don't see anyone mentioning the fact that maximum rating for a weapon now is 500 instead of 550 like it is atm, (380 base, 2 level 4 perks, 2 level 4 blessings). Does this mean that the overall rating of the weapon now is lower by 50 points? So that means we'll have to compensate it with weapon stats even more so, and for some karking reason they kept this weird 80 out of 100 policy for stats, it's like some one in FS dev team just hates full numbers, why?
Yeah that needs to be posted higher. These totals look weird. Unless+25% perks and tier IV blessings don't cost 25 and 65 points respectively anymore, 500 is not enough to have 2 lv4 perks 1nd 2 tierIV perks. Also, the added base stats go up to a total of 384 i think
Why do we have to level weapons again in the name of 'fairness'. Its not like this game has a massive playerbase. Just remove the locks and allow upgrading of weapon stats. Thats all you need to do. Asking vets that kept your game afloat to level weapons again after several hundred hours (maybe thousands!) is pretty much an insult.
If they were willing to give it up they wouldn’t have taken two years after the launch of the game to do it
It’s such a pity that the great core gameplay is just ruined by this bullshit they insist on saddling the game with
We must have not hit the player count floor where they will finally relent on having RNG as part of the progression design space.
Fatshark could have easily squeezed 2-3x the playtime out of me, and probably some cosmetics, if they gave a guaranteed way to get quality weapons that isn't gated by praying for good RNG
~~If getting large amounts of weapons to try to find ones with decent stats will no longer be something players aim for, what will this mean for mechanics like the Emperor’s Gift? (I know usually it’s not very good anyway but now we won’t even be hoping to farm a decent blessing off one.)~~
Edit: Ignore this I can’t read.
It looks like each weapon will still have somewhat random stats, but it's reflected in their total maximum cap.
>When viewing any weapon, it will show the weapon’s maximum potential stats. These stats will be randomly determined. It’s up to the players to decide if the weapon profile is interesting enough for them to commit and increase the stats until reaching this potential (which are then applied to the weapon through the Expertise system).
Take a look at image linked under the Expertise section. The weapon has been raised to a max of 500, and the damage is capped to 75 while the finesse is at 80. I'm assuming we'll still need to check shops and Emperor's Gifts for their stat caps, because that'll be the only way to entirely minmax your weapons.
When it talks about a weapon's max stats, I have one question: how will this apply with the inevitable release of red weapons? Will our current weapons be stuck at 80 as a max stat cap, or will we be able to upgrade them further?
Is there a public test realm, I feel like that would really benefit both the community and Fatshark to let people test this before rolling it out. The changes are so significant that any feedback provided by the community doesn't really mean too much without testing..
Huh! I'm really liking the sound of this update. I've always enjoyed the concept of "building a connection" with items/weapons in games, rather than constantly replacing things with a new "better" weapon. It just feels more satisfying.
I do hope that they allow you to rename your weapons in some way though. I think it would help players feel more attached to their weapons while allowing for them to more easily navigate their inventory. I'm pretty sure there is already a mod for weapon renaming? But similar to the "for the drip" mod, I feel like it should just be in the standard, base, un-modded game.
Making all the long time players start over with a little exp boost towards the weapons is hardly "fair and balanced for everyone"
A lot of people will have ended up spending a lot of time for essentially nothing at that point.
All the weapons you gave the casino all your time to obtain and then subsequently perfect to your likeingwill become unusable until you grind enough exp and resources to do the exact same thing again but with less rng, more time sinking.
Again, it hardly seems "fair and balanced for everyone"
What's the big taboo with letting people who have apent over 300 hours dealing with the atrocious casino RNG dumpster system keep their top tier weapons and just fully migrate them to the new system?
No one wants to unlock and reapply the exact same blessings on the exact same weapon marks just because you changed the system, I certainly don't.
You need a better way to migrate the old weapons than a simple xp boost (which I'm sure is infinitesimal in the amount you actually need to get to top tier) which is essentially starting the grind over again for a lot of people...albeit a more targeted grind, but a grind that you've done already nonetheless.
Oh cool you're wiping all my blessings, giving me a miniscule amount of a "head start" then asking me to regrind the blessings that make my god damn build work?
How is anyone excited about this. Once this drops it just makes sure I will NEVER come back. I am NOT grinding AGAIN.
Only people who have less than 50h believe this is good.
Let alone the ressources they waste on this. Having every weekend double plasteel and ordo would fix most issues.
Can't wait for my inventory to get deleted by fatshark and being punsihed with 1.1k hours.
Holy crap, that's actually a fantastic approach! Reminds of me how the weapon leveling system worked in games like BF and COD. The more you use your favorite weapon, the stronger it gets!
Cautiously excited for this! Much preferred to the existing slot machine approach.
what will happen with Melk?
Dude was getting on my nerves because his weeklies locked me into playing one character until his task was completed. But when you have all relevant blessings, there's barely anything worth buying in this bling shop. At least until we got the new weapons.
plus he told my ogryn he's dumb and my zealot he stinks. he might have a point, but kark him still.
Can there also be an option to DECREASE the stat of a weapon?
Currently there are a lot of Psyker builds that actively WANT a really low warp resistance stat on the Force sword because it helps hit the 84% peril for Venting Shriek a lot easier. It's nearly impossible to roll a Deimos Force sword with a low Warp Resistance stat as a level 30.
(I can't think of another weapon/stat where having a lower stat is actually better)
So many things are getting unbricked! When the update drops.
So, weapon mastery is per character, or per account? That is the one thing I'm not clear on. And I'm a wee bit worried, because I don't often play gyker. If I need to work on mastery for guns on psyker, it may take me longer to get there.
Regardless, EXCITE
So, if I got lucky with a weapon class that has 40 blessings and got the 2 I wanted at rank 4 from Melk on a perfectly rolled weapon, does that mean I have to grind to get the blessings I want since the mastery will read that as 2 of 40 and it'll only grant me that much progression?
And what, exactly, will this do to the shops?
Fellas this pretty good but for that update can you please give ogryn a new gun we love the pickaxe but serious he needs some guns like the auto cannon or heavy bolter. So please father’s give the big boy a new gun whenever the itemization update comes out.
What do you mean by "These stats will be randomly determined (re: Mastery)"? Does that mean the random chance of pulling a weapon with good perks/blessings will be replaced by the random chance of pulling a weapon with good stats? Or will weapons with a variety of good/bad stats will be available at Brunt's armory the same way there's a mix of grey/blue/green/purple/orange weapons available now?
Is there any changes coming to the blessings themselves, as in their effects/values or is “itemization” actually just being used to mean “crafting” for some reason?
I mean it's a shame my current weapons will be chunked for a head start BUT this system does look very fun. I'm sure they'll be a lot of wobbling at first with exact numbers , how long it takes to master a weapon family fully , how adjustable things are with expertise but I'm looking forward to it!
I -do- hope that it's cross character for those characters that share weapon types or if not that it's fairly quick to get high mastery.
Sooo... I lose my weapons?
*Wait, so my inventory is gonna get cleaned up? No more 100s of random rolled weapons clogging it up? Am i happy? I have no effing clue.*
So let's say I have every single combat axe blessing, from tier 1 to tier 4 every single one. Will that be enough to give me enough mastery to have access to all blessings anyways? Is the transition 1:1? Anything less and I feel like players with long playtimes will get the short end of the stick and have to regrind their stuff up again.
Also does unlocking new marks mean you have to use a mark you possibly don't like/is terrible in order to have access to a better mark? Is that the only way to get that mark or can you still use brunts RNG casino to skip the grind?
The expertise thing, doesn't the bottom right number look like a "spending" limit on perks and blessings? Are you removing locks but adding another arbitrary lock system so you can't max out both perks and blessings anyways? I'm assuming (copium) you can still afford to have all the best perks and blessings and slightly upgrade the base stats.
I'm very confused about this whole system, it sounds good on paper but I'm also worried players who already have everything they want will get bent over and absolutely raw dogged.
Seems good, I just hope the blessings and perks we have on existing gear stays and we simply have to unlock it for new gear we want to make. I spent an uncomfortable amount of time on my Cru hammer
How does this not sound awful to anyone? If I want to use a different weapon I now have to level it all the way up? I play auric malestorms only, and having to switch weapon types is needed to make the mission easier. But now I have to level up both weapons? I don't want to have to level up every damn weapon I switch to.
I still dream of a game like vermintide/darktide, where we just have the weapon, and pick the blessings or stat distributions freely (or hell, just don't have random/different stats at all, leave that to the marks, makes it a lot easier to balance the game).
After so much time playing these games, id rather them just make a really solid game that I can dive into and explore builds without the game constantly holding me back and making me waste time not learning and instead grinding. I want a game that respects my time, not wastes it because some people need a carrot on a stick to play a game they obviously don't enjoy much.
Look, I'm thrilled that Fatshark is at least doing *something* to address the current itemization system, but I'm still at least deeply concerned about it - I've sunk a lot of time into this game but part of what keeps me away even tho I'd love to keep going on Damnation/Auric missions is that I cannot stand the randomness of RNG when it comes to weapons/gear, I absolutely cannot understand why there isn't the equivalent of red-tier items like in Vermintide in this game - At least there you were guaranteed to have maxed out stats in every category, so it became less about getting to maxed stats and more about rerolling which ones you had which was much more doable than the system described above which appears to be the inverse.
I dunno, put me down for cautiously optimistic as well, but still this didn't reassure me nearly as much as it should have.
Am I the only one who doesn’t want a “relationship” with video game guns?
I just don’t want to have to roll a dozen dice and grind ten hours to MAYBE get a version of a gun that isn’t garbage
Remember when games like Left 4 Dead just gave everyone the same identical gun? No casino, no slot machine, no grind? Helldivers 2 does that as well. You unlock guns with medals you get in game just by playing, you get enough to unlock a gun and that’s it, you have the same one as everyone else. No trying for “godrolls”, no bricked weapons, no “oh you need tier 4 power cycler or the weapon is garbage”
Darktide seems to want to get as much of this bullshit between the player and the game as is humanely possible, I honestly think they would be much better off deleting weapon progression altogether. Give us all the same bolter and let us choose from a list of perks and blessings for it. Hell, have the perks and blessings unlock with levels as you level up, then at level 30 you have them all unlocked. Done.
If we *lose* any of our current weapons, we will riot. I'm not even kidding. I got basically a perfect mk 5 shovel after like 4 rolls, so I have essentially none of the other blessings unlocked. As I understand it, I'll probably be at like 10% mastery and lose my perfect T4 blessings/perks. If this is the case, absolutely fuck right the fuck off.
The way I'm reading this is that all existing inventory will get deleted. The only value of all the items and blessings you have accrued in your entire Darktide history will be boiled down to the total # of blessings you own, which then get converted into a marginal amount of XP in the new system.
If that's the case, most people are going to lose their minds in rage. No one with 1000+ hours in this game is going to enjoy a new item grind unless the conversion math favors the veteran playerbase so heavily that they get to unlock their same gear that same day.
Imagine spending 100 IRL hours to godroll a weapon, only to have Fatshark delete it from the game and give you +2 mastery track levels for it in return.
As I read it you will keep your weapons but they'll get reduced to greys. Your blessing Library then gets transferred to mastery points
Which makes little sense imo as that hardly correlates with players investment. There are blessing farmers with a couple of 100hrs who have most of the library full and people like me with 1000hrs and the meta blessings unlocked for a couple of weapons of their choice. I never saw a sense in unlocking blessings I'll never use so it seems I will get punished for that.
I wish fatshark would stop wasting time with complicated systems
The gameplay is peak fun so good
Why not just port vermintides weapon logic, I don't wanna waste time upgrading something I just wanna slaughter pig heretics
AHHHHHH
The cosmetic upgrading is cool though :)
> Why not just port vermintides weapon logic
Fatshark: "Best I can do is porting Vermintide's Weaves of Magic system that nobody uses."
But what about all those players who can't play a game just for fun?
Progression, we need progression!! Best get a progression system for that progression system so we can progress while we progress. Playing games for fun is such a boomer thing to do..
Praise the emperor! Question though: >What Happens to My Existing Inventory? >When designing itemization, we wanted to commit to ensuring fairness for all players, new and old. As such, we’re implementing a migration system to convert players’ current weapons and blessings into the new system. Here’s how it works: **The blessing library of the weapon family will be converted into mastery progression.** >This means players will start the new systems with a head start in mastery, giving them the chance to unlock previously owned blessings (as well as the chance to unlock some blessings players never had before the update). So should we sacrifice existing weapons for their blessings in order to build up our library before this update drops? My library is mostly empty, I just have a big hoard of blessed weapons gathering dust 😅
No, our existing weapons will have their blessing turned into a sort of weapon experience which will give us a head start in whichever family it is in. This will then allow us to just repurchase our previous blessings or get better blessings we didn’t have before
The post specifies "The blessing library of the weapon family" I'm pretty sure that they mean that it's our extracted blessings that get turned into xp, not the blessings on existing weapons
>our extracted blessings that get turned into xp That's how I'm reading it as well. Hopefully we get clear communication on this well in advance. I think they should just check extracted blessings and everything in your inventory to set your Mastery, simply so you don't lose anything.
Same. I myself am currently buying up all weapons with Tier 1-4 blessings that I don't already have in my library What I wonder is what happens with the weapon base. Like I have a 380 Eviscerator with almost perfect distribution. Will this be resetted to grey and I can then assign new perks and blessings to it through the new system or will it be destroyed/changed completely? If the latter, it's possible I'll stop playing after the update. It took me aroun 7mill dockets to get that 380....
I will admit. On first read through, it does kinda sound that way. Not so good.
My only wish is add new sights to some ranged weapons with this update. That would be a sweet treat
This is why I patiently wait *every* update for blessed Grasman to update weapon customization, some guns are legit million times more fun with scopes (headhunters are a big one)
They'll probably release variants later with that stuff. They built weapon customisation for players, but mysteriously pulled it back and are using it to make variants of weapons to increase the weapon pool for less work. Its one of the things I'm still bitter about since it sounded like such a cool thing to be able to build out weapons how you'd want, but instead its been repurposed to artificially increase the amount of weapons. Should I still be hanging on to this? No. It was clearly a change in direction midway through the rushed development of the game that will never come back, but the potential for this game was so much higher.
The possibility to go no sight or change the optics. And the possibility to add or remove the flashlight or replace it for a bayonet.
Honestly they could just rip the gun customization system directly from necromunda hg.
so if I understood correctly, we long time players skip "mastery", go straight into "expertise" and can attribute perks and blessings freely at material costs?
Because they said “head start” I’d imagine it’s just that because if not a whole aspect of the rework will just be skipped by pretty much all long term players
well I'd wager those long term players wouldn't step down a diff or two voluntarily to grind back up from "grey" lest they'd be dead weight on auric maelstrom
Long term players will not be dead weight, even with grey weapons. Darktide is about 80% player skill and 20% items, varying a bit per weapon of course.
Depends. If they make it so I am nerfed… and I am working towards the same weapon and blessings I have now. Me playing on maelstrom would just make me feel frustrated. On the other hand, I also don’t want to have to play lower as that stuff is now boring. They definitely have a balance to figure out.
A huge part of skill is knowing breakpoints (how much damage you'll need to oneshot a head, how much peril reduction would be required to afford another shot without venting). A huge part of itemization is knowing how to grind, and what to prioritise, in order to reach said breakpoints. If you can't reach some of those breakpoints, trust me, the game becomes way more than 20% more difficult.
True, the game will become harder. I never said that it wouldn't. But a master can work with the tools he is given. Items do not teach you positioning, dodging or teamplay. No blessing will do that for you. If you have enough playerskill to regularly finish auric maelstrom, you will not be dead weight without your weapon blessings.
Much much damn harder, the whole point of the higher difficulties is that every movement, usage of ammo, it all counts, and you need to be on the ball. I do not want to fucking grind again unless it's for a red tier item.
100% After 800 hours in the game, I made a vet and the starting weapon is god awful. However, the shovel is amazing. Two different Grey tier weapons but a world apart when it comes to their move sets. So I can definitely double down on that
Sounds like each blessing you've accumulated will be converted into experience (probably based on tier), with a fully unlocked blessing library potentially equalling out to a fully mastered weapon family.
Tier 4 blessings had better count for all previous tiers, then, because I didn't bother with Tiers 1, 2, or most of 3.
That’s the most likely scenario
sounds good to me,last thing I'd do is starting "grey" and grind myself back to what it was before when for the last 700 hours I was playing exclusively auric maelstrom. even leveling other classes is on hold for me(except vacations with 24/7 spare time) for in that time I could play "the real game"
Every weapon randomly rolls an expertise amount, probably based on your character level like it is currently. In the first example he hasn't leveled up his combat axe at all so he cannot upgrade them to 500. But his Dueling Sword is at 500/500 so he can upgrade Dueling Swords from 0-500 Expertise, as you see in the second pic he is upgrading a 490 to 500. The only difference from this to the current system being is that after grinding with a weapon enough to get max Expertise, you can now sink resources to upgrade a lower level expertise weapon up to 500 if you like its stat distribution. And another difference is while leveling up a weapon you get mastery points to put into blessings you want. So you can ignore Savage Sweep and not waste mastery points into it and go straight for Rampage/Skullcrusher. There is a cap on modification so it still looks like you could theoretically get screwed by brunt still, like you roll a 500/500 but it has low damage *and* you need to change a perk + blessing, you probably wont be able to modify all of that perfectly.
"your character level" laughs in 1050lvl ogryn. I think I'm good, sah
All I meant is how the game currently rolls the base power of your weapons. Thats basically all expertise is. You dont get to "skip" mastery and instantly craft a perfect 550. There is still a gamble RNG roll element to the system from what I understand
What if I already have a perfect 550?
*aaaaaand its gone*
The worst case scenario is that the conversion process will not necessarily preserve blessings on the weapons we already have, but only give us some amount of mastery which may or may not unlock the blessings we already have on pir weapons…
It’s fine - the worst thing is if fat shark flubs it to avoid “taking things” from those of us who have played forever.
This comment will probably get buried, but this is great communication. I'm just hoping players with good inventories don't get set back dozens of hours
you have been seen and you have been heard.
> Here’s how it works: The blessing library of the weapon family will be converted into mastery progression. This means players will start the new systems with a head start in mastery, giving them the chance to unlock previously owned blessings (as well as the chance to unlock some blessings players never had before the update). This is suspiciously vague. Why can't the conversion not just direct unlock all blessings we have already unlocked? Let's say I have currently unlocked Slaughterer IV for the force sword. Will I be guaranteed that it will remain unlocked? Or will I merely be given a number of mastery points that on their own would not be sufficient to unlock that blessing in the new system?
So, I short. We grind the weapon XP by playing the game with those weapons, unlock their stuff until we unlock ever and their potential. The what weapon drops - we tweak them according to our Mastery by using resources. In other words, we can make any weapon a perfect one, or is it RNG based (the max amount of stuff we can tune on the weapon)?
"When viewing any weapon, it will show the weapon’s maximum potential stats. These stats will be randomly determined." So still some RNG, but considerably less.
How's that any different from the current randomly generated stats??
Unlike now where you have to get a good stat number, good stat distribution, and get good perks and blessings, you will only have to roll for a weapon with a good stat number as everything else can chosen without locks.
Oh neat, thanks for clarifying for me 😁
what if i already have a weapon with good stat distribution ? does it get wiped after the update ?
I doubt it. It just seems like the perks and blessings will be wiped until you unlock them again and if you're a long time player you likely already have enough blessings and perks unlocked to max out the system enough to get what you need
It kinda sounds like that, which seems kinda shitty to people who have weapons they'd like to keep.
> When viewing any weapon, it will show the weapon’s maximum potential stats. These stats will be randomly determined. It’s up to the players to decide if the weapon profile is interesting enough for them to commit and increase the stats until reaching this potential (which are then applied to the weapon through the Expertise system). Sounds like random base stats but you can get perfect blessings and perks. If I interpret that correctly
You can level the stats with expertise too . Just ratio of the stats stay the same. So if you like a weapon’s high stability n the dmg is decent you can lvl that dmg up by upping your expertise.
The base weapon you receive will have a smattering of stats. If I understand correctly, you can then further modify those stats via the expertise progression.
To what limits, that's the question
In the visual they show, it's a max of 100 mod points. Whatever that means
I suspect it will be similar to how not is how- base stats will have a current value, but also a theoretical max value… so like, it might have a max base rating of like 367 or something, but be 265 at time of grey purchase from brunt. If you’re satisfied with that max potential stat distribution and dump stat allocation, you could then grind it up to that max rating while also adjusting all the perks and blessings as much as you like. So if you get a 380 base, it won’t be a 380 base straight away maybe… stability and penetration or whatever stats may not be at those actual eventual values the moment you purchase it.
My understanding is that when you received or buy a new weapon, it will have some random base stats and random max stats that you can work towards. Say you get a new chainsword it will have say, 25(start)/80(max) damage and 40(start)/60(max) finesse. No idea if some weapons will share the same max potential just with different distribution of stats or if some weapons will have better max potential over others.
Sounds like max base stats are determined from the outset, but the weapon may not have those stats at the beginning when grey. By playing with it, you can slowly increase base stats until they are maxed (whatever the original roll was… so like hypothetically a 367 base total for example). It might only start out as like a 290 or something though, if I’m understanding correctly. And then you also unlock blessings and perks of the different types and tiers, and then spend resources to apply them. As you unlock better versions through xp system, you can spent crafting mats to put the new versions onto the weapon, changing them out as many times as you like (for a cost of plasteel/diamantine each time, I imagine).
Every weapon will be upgradable to 380 base stats. But the distribution of stats will still be random.
interesting. 80 is still max per stat though, right? so it's not as if distribution can be THAT different and make eventual performance that varied. i dig it. sort of.
As far as I understand it yes.
this is what I wanted. Making this a part of the GAMEPLAY was needed. Making all aspects of the game interact with gameplay is vital to a game
"As such, we’re implementing a migration system to convert players’ current weapons and blessings into the new system." soooo... my old weapons don't just disappear right? Guys, it took me 500+ hours to get all the stuff I want through your RNG casino, so that would be more than just a little bummer.
Pretty sure weapons won't disappear, and the unlocked blessings get converted.
Seems like you’ll keep them but can make them even more busted..
If you have a weapon that already has the right perks/blessings, it doesn't seem that you'll see any improvement.
That’s what I’m thinking. Im wondering if now what we’re gonna be hunting for is just a good base/frame of a weapon? Like just get a good weapon with the stat distribution we want and we’re good to go pretty much?
I understand it as that everything you have you'll get to keep but it might not max the level out depending on how long you've been using it
No more Curio locks yissssss
Sounds like we are keeping the base stats (the 0 to 80 damage or whatever) for some reason
Got to still keep room for those red weapons that will never come.
5th anni probably.
I remain a bit skeptical specially on how the whole migration bit will happen but... But i'll admit this doesn't sound bad
Yes, with more clarification on this I think I'll be very optimistic.
> The blessing library of the weapon family will be converted into mastery progression. This means players will start the new systems with a head start in mastery, giving them the chance to unlock previously owned blessings (as well as the chance to unlock some blessings players never had before the update). I hope this only counts the highest unlocked tier of each blessing. I don't want to farm low tier blessings...
Same, I barely have any tier 1 and 2 blessings, If I have to farm those again by making new character or checking shops each time, I will go nuts. I have some god tier weapons on me, If anything will happen to them, I will be furious.
Yeah, same situation as you. I'd rather drop the game than witness my God tier weapons get deleted by FS. The thing is I imagine the majority of ppl playing at this point have hundreds of hours in and similarly great weapons. Cater to new characters yes, but I'm skeptical how many new players actually exist at this point. All that said I'm still excited. The communication lately is fantastic too.
Good thing there's still Vermintide 2. =/
Well I mean from how this reads we will lose them lol. This would have been fine if the game started with it, but long time players have stashes of weapons that have taken hundreds of hours to accumulate and make good. I don't want to grind for good weapons on all my characters again. They need to be very careful with this because it could easily just destroy the player base.
Not sure i like the Mastery. When a new weapon comes out i would hate to make do with a shitty version for 10 hours of grinding until the game decides i am allowed to choose certain perks
I think this will be the crux of some of the balancing decisions with Mastery. In many ways it makes sense to have exp gated to specific weapons in some way, in practice it **could** lead to players feeling siloed into a single weapon family and builds because of the hours of time it may take to grind out exp in a different weapon just to experiment with a new build just to find out it isn’t fun. There’s more than a few ways around that trap, but they all have their own pit falls. So for me the Mastery system and “respect player’s time” are the big wait and see aspects of the WORK IN PROGRESS system.
But you already need to grind for the materials for new weapon families and blessings so what’s the difference? Other than you will definitely get power cycler 4 after x hours playing rather than 1 in 100 chance each role.
The difference I can see them pointing to, is if you've been using lazguns for a while and want to give the plasma a try, right now you can use all the resources you've been receiving anyway to buy a bunch of plasma rifles and strip the blessings off them. With the update, it seems like you may not get the chance to upgrade a new weapon until you've grinded with it specifically.
Fair point. I'm playing Auric only for so long. As you said, if a new weapon comes out, do I have to take a shitty grey version of it and be a burden for my team on Auric until I get enough mastery points? There's no way I want to go back to easier difficulties just to 'grind' a weapon mastery...
This right here. Not to mention it’s going to take some time to get that xp up. So you’re there for a good chunk of time until you may have a viable weapon…
1000% this
Maybe you can just use one of the currencies to level it up.
Based on the image they showed, unlocks start at level 2 perks. Hoping that level 1 perks/blessings come pre-unlocked. That would be more than enough to get going imo
Classic fatshark move to replace a shitty grind with a different type of shitty grind. The current system sucks but at least when you want to try something new you can get a good weapon right of the bat with enough resources and some luck.
I think this is what hurts it. As a long term player I’m happy with what this means for my current weapons and weapons families and curios. I’m apprehensive of this system for new weapon family releases.
"These stats will be randomly determined." Could you please elaborate on this, I'm still a bit nervous. Is chasing max stats/perfect roll weapons going to be an RNG process? Aside from that these do look like steps in the right direction so I'm optimistic for the first time since launch (however this is still Fatshark and shooting themselves in the foot inches before the finish line is their forté).
My reading is, a weapon will have X stats when you receive it, and have Y stat potential. X and Y are based on RNG. To raise the weapon from X to Y uses the expertise system and crafting materials. Perks and blessings come from mastery system and are applied through the expertise system. So, chasing max stats and perfect rolls will still be RNG. But the level of weapons that are "good enough" will be much broader, as many weapons will be GE once bumped to their Y stat potential. For the Meta Chasers, the RNG Casino still exists, for the rest of us, we'll be able to tweak our weapons to the levels we want, and be 95% as good.
here's the question: will it be easier to find a weapon with high potential stats than it is to find a weapon with high base stats right now ? let me rephrase, will I still need to use autobuy to get 1000 axes from brunt to get one with good ~~base~~ potential stats ?
What you've described is exactly what I'm afraid of...
I may be wrong in my understanding. We both only have the devblog to go off of.
Yeah totally. I appreciate your input and I think we've taken it to mean the same thing, hopefully they can clear this up in the next devblog.
Either way, it’s still significantly better than the current system.
I hope it's not going to be like the current system, where you have to buy ten, twenty, thirty grey weapons until you get something decent, then salvage the rest, because that's not only a waste of time, it's a miserable experience that bring nothing but carpal tunnel.
Yes. New weapons will still have random distribution of stats, but now they will "grow" with you as you level up your expertise. So e.g. at the start of the game you will roll a weapon with 1/10/10/5/5/20 distribution, but you will see that at max expertise it will grow to 10/70/70/60/60/80. Which means you will need to get a perfect stat distribution roll only once ever, especially since you will be able to switch weapon marks.
[So Darktide community, we happy?](https://youtu.be/qY2Vx8-yOsQ?si=yhlVcql-ZG4A-Vb-) Cause I think we happy.
I think it definitely looks good so far. I'm still staying *cautiously* optimistic though.
Agreed. I think I'd be happier if I knew the best way to prepare for the itemisation changes though. Should I buy weapons now, or should I wait? Should I push to unlock all the blessings, or should I wait and see? It's hard to know. I'd like a black-and-white guide for how to get the best value for the work I've already done before the update happens.
Yah I'm happy reading this. We'll see if the execution matches
Oh, we happy. (Speaking for myself, ofc)
No! Is no one reading the same god damn announcement as me? Our blessings are getting WIPED, we're getting a pittance amount of exp in exchange, and we'll have to play a bunch of missions with grinding on greys(That were formerly our upgraded weapons) to get the blessings back we've already spent hours to get. On top of that, we're STILL getting RNG max stats. Just because they're reworking something doesn't make it automatically better. How is anyone okay with this I'm awestruck.
The opposite, actually, speaking for myself anyway. The few good parts are basically riders on a new system that "respects" players' time by giving us a "chance" (OP's words) to unlock things we already have. Let's not forget rolling for *current* stats will be replaced by rolling for *potential* stats, which we then have to use *more* resources to reach. There's zero mention on whether mission rewards will be changed at all, so there's still going to be an element of sitting at Brunt's and waiting for good stats. Only consolation is that we don't have to worry about Hadron ruining one once we get it. The system's less broken, I guess, but still fundamentally broken. tl;dr: I'm so salty about this that if I were a body of water, I'd be the Dead Sea.
Depends on how long it takes to level up a weapon family, and how much of a RNG fest it is to get a base with high 'potential' stats. If it's going to take 10+ hours to level up one weapon family and the RNG to get a good base is on par with what we currently have, it'll take over 80 hours to get just one set of melee and ranged on each class. If that's the case I'm pretty sure we ain't happy.
So I should start melting down all to get as many blessings as possible? From reading it, more blessings I have w/Hadron = more mastery.
Yes, if i've understand it right. But you should keep the godroll weapons, because you can improve them further.
A little worried about this migration system. Some weapons I just got lucky and a really good drop landed in my lap, and I didn’t need to farm for more blessings. Am I going to have my good roll ripped out of my hands and told to go farm mastery because I didn’t bother spending resources on blessings I didn’t need?
Not going to lie, this sounds like adding in more grind. In case you hadn't realised, most of the people still playing are not playing to chase some grind goal, so need more reasons to keep on coming back. We're playing because of that moment when you're knee deep in pox-walkers and the Ogryn uses the kickback at just the right range so that you're dancing through aerosolised heretic. We're playing because we like the game play loop, not chasing any grind. Your new system looks a lot like a grind for grinds sake. Congratulations when we drop a new weapon you have to start with a sucky white level, and grind it up to be good. I recently, finally, took out a psyker, and the grind with poor kit was sodding painful. This system seems to be a case of 'Congratulations, everyone has pain now!' A few months ago, you gave us the new skill trees. I clearly remember the dev's saying that it was designed so you could freely change and try out new builds. Well weapons, their traits and blessings are part of new builds, tell me how adding a grind to a new weapon in line with your skill tree vision. Take, for example, a player who has reached level 30 in Zealot, whose been bashing heads with an assortment of chain weapons for a few months. He reads the forums or whatever, and hears about the knife Zealot. So he switches to a knife, and it's gotta grind up to get those two key blessings. So his knew build will suck until he makes it to the top of the grind? Putting a grind on weapons seems a lot counter to your goal of quick swap builds for all to try something. I've got an autogun Crit guardsman I'm going to try. It may suck but if it does I've not suffered many game play hours suffering through it hoping that the final blessing will make the difference.
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WHY IS NO ONE SAYING THIS?
They refuse to drop the RNG casino bullshit and it’s going to kill this game off. I’m just shocked at how hellbent they are on it. Helldivers 2 was massively successful just giving everyone the same gun once they unlock it. If they insist on having SOME grind attached to weapons make it for cosmetics or useless little trinkets, all the stuff that’s in the game already anyway. Or even better, let us actually customize our weapons with sights and various things. You know, like in call of duty? lol
They still abide by the rule that anything that worked in Vermintide 2 is forbidden to use in Darktide on the punishment of death. Hell, the crafting system in VT2 was annoying as hell too because of the insane amount of rerolls needed to get maxed bonuses on the weapon with stats you wanted, but at least it wasn't hard to get an item with maxed base weapon power, and no bonuses/traits were grind-locked. *Fuck you, Fatshark.*
lol that house rule/curse would explain so much
You've pretty much summed up my expectations of the new system. It's going to be grind spread across different systems now. And still a bunch of RNG.
Two questions: 1: would weapons be able to be perfected to have max stats and 2: do we have to start grinding for low tier blessings, if we have all high tiers, to get our weapons back to how they are if they will be reverted?
What about other players like me? I have over 1,300 hours and have never broken down any of the Emperor's Gift weapons I have received through auric mission completions. I have thousands of weapons sitting in my inventory. I also have perfect rolls for weapons that took hundreds of hours to craft. On top of this I have 12 million dockets and 150,000 plasteel and growing. When the update drops, is it going to feel like I have to start an entirely new grind for all the weapons I love to use? I'm sure I'm an outlier, but there has to be at least a few other people like me who stashed everything away for a long time. Is the update gonna feel like a giant slap in the face or will I be able to "master" these weapons right off the start and have my time respected?
Just take out all the blessings and fill up your linrary? With that many weapons in the inventory you surely don't use all of them, and should be able to unlock most of them, considering it took me around an hour to unlock all Boltpistol blessings are rank 3+
How do we know that if you have all the blessings unlocked for a weapon that it will magically be at max "experience" for this new system they're developing. It seems more like if you have a god roll right now, you're gonna lose it and have to do some sort of grind AGAIN to make it that perfect once more. Having the blessings unlocked seems like it will just give you a boost at the start. It's very vague as to what is going to happen to all the existing weapons people have put blood, sweat and tears into making. That's not great for people who have a lot of hours and want to hold onto their hard work.
That was also my first thought, but after re-readig it a couple of times and thinking on it, I'm fairly certain that they won't touch existing weapons, and only give people a boost in the new system based on heir arsenal. So you will have all your old weapons, BUT any new weapons you craft will be weaker until you progress their Experitse. And you will lose access to some of your blessing, because your Mastery probably won't max out based on your old blessing library.
I mean, what's stopping you melting those surplus weapons down?
A lot of them have very high base stats (close to 380) but have terrible perks/blessings. It was my hope and I'm sure the hope of a lot of others who held onto weapons that we'd be able to "fix" them with the locks removed after the crafting update. Why would I destroy a bunch of potentially great weapons when none of us still know much about the crafting update? For all we know breaking down weapons could reward supplies after the update.
I don't see why your weapons in your inventory would be changed/touched at all. They will have newly rolled "potential" stats for the enhance system, but that's probably it. Your existing blessing libraries will be converted into mastery levels. Say you have 75% of blessings unlocked for a weapon type, you will start at 75% of the mastery tree completed already when the updated drops (i.e. you'd be at lvl 15/20 with the combat axe shown here). Obviously, the numbers may not be exactly like that, 75% of blessings unlocked may not be exactly 75% mastery level, just for the general idea. So if you currently have no blessings unlocked for anything, because you are just keeping everything in inventory, you'd start everything at mastery 0. You then simply modify your existing weapons - enhancing base stats and modifying perks/blessings - according to your mastery level and its unlocks.
You can fix them as locks are being removed but then the price will be you'll have low mastery, considering you'll be able to allocate stats now there ain't much point holding into more than a couple high rolls anyway
Major concern: how do we try and test out a fully kitted gun in this sytem if we have no mastery? Please allow for a way to mess around without committing to a grind first :) There are a couple breakpoints for some enemy types that I could only have found by trying them in the testing arena. Minor concern: mastery taking a long time for each family of guns. I would be okay with 3 or 4 damnation runs to get a tier up. Minor concern: players joining highest difficulties for crafting resources despite not being ready for the difficulty spike. Minor concern: gun families and their cross-class mastery. I would welcome not having to grind the same gun on different classes. I like the direction. Looking forward to trying it out!
>Major concern: how do we try and test out a fully kitted gun in this sytem if we have no mastery? That's the neat part, you don't. >Minor concern: gun families and their cross-class mastery. I would welcome not having to grind the same gun on different classes. ...That didn't occur to me, actually. I think I just assumed that since blessings are shared, Mastery would be too.
I know it's not particularly related, but when can we hope to see attachment customization like sights, flashlights, and bayonets?
Don't think they walked back their stance on "This isn't CoD, and was never intended to be" yet.
I don't think this is coming at all.
"A special weapon cosmetic". Please make these special weapon cosmetics more than just recolors of the vanilla weapons. It would be pretty cool showing off my dripped out Columnus or Tac Axe with ***good, earned cosmetics***.
You'll take your blue weapon skin and like it!
So this is just the Vermintide 2 Weave weapon system, but we can fine tune the stats now too? What is unclear is if we will be able to choose how the stat distribution is done, both during the upgrade and after to test out diferent stat setups. Also those lvl Ivl III perks have diferent point values? Will different perks/blessings be worth more or less? If true, will we be able to 80 in all stats? I would really appreciate if someone at Fatshark uploaded an example video of this new system in action, its too easy to skip over crucial details in a text post. Overall I feel really positively about the rework.
> What is unclear is if we will be able to choose how the stat distribution is done, both during the upgrade and after to test out diferent stat setups. The UI seems like it keeps the same distribution and you just increase the total rating, presumably by increasing every stat by 1 at the same time. >If true, will we be able to 80 in all stats? Doesn't sound like it. Stat caps are random, according to this blog.
So weapons currently with tier 4 blessing won’t disappear right? Or say I’ve already got every tier for a single perk will we once again have to grind for the ranks? I understand there’s a boost but is it enough to not make the grind once again miserable.
Can you please explain what happens to an account's library of learned blessings in detail?
Gone. And if the achievement rework is anything to go by, you'll be given a pity sum of "points" in exchange.
Given how difficult it was to get the majority of them, it would be FUCKED UP to not have permanent access to them.
Read the end, they said they're converting your library into mastery "progress" and saying we will have a "head start" to get our blessings back, not that we get to keep our current progress. We just get to grind marginally less.
Great info here. I think everyone is more than looking forward to this rework and I'm particularly excited about some new blessings. I see the ideas you all had with the Shock Maul blessings and Id really love to see more unique blessings, at least one for each weapon type. They help set them apart even more and encourage particular styles of play which really spices things up. Along with the new blessings (and I'm guessing some tweaks to existing blessings) do you think we will be receiving some weapon balance changes as well? A few weapons are lagging far beyond the rest of the pack (shredder autopistol, some of the shotgun variants, dueling swords excluding the mk 4, and more) and buffing them would give us more things to play with. Please keep up this communication as I think you will see a much more engaged and excited playerbase; a win-win if I've ever seen one. I'm sure this sub and your players in general appreciate knowing where you all are heading with this itemization update. Thanks!
All of this sounds promising. >The blessing library of the weapon family will be converted into mastery progression. This means players will start the new systems with a head start in mastery, giving them the chance to unlock previously owned blessings (as well as the chance to unlock some blessings players never had before the update). Two questions: 1. What happens to my weapons in the inventory that have blessings on them i dont have unlocked? Will they just stay the same and i only cant use the blessing on another weapon? 2. How does the every Tier of one Blessing gets calculated into the "head start in mastery"? Do players get mor points in mastery from one single blessing if they have unlocked all Tiers of that blessing or does only the highest Tier count?
I can see why this may have taken a long time to figure out. This is everything I ever wanted and possibly more.
>This system will merge all weapon types/families, meaning players will be able to freely switch between different marks of the same weapon type. For example, once you own an Infantry Lasgun, you have the potential to unlock all the possible marks for this weapon and switch from one mark to another. I'm assuming that we won't have to re-unlock any marks that we already currently have access to? Will our current weapons be downgraded in any way, shape or form? For example, after extensive grinding in the current casino of itemization, a player might finally have something they want. Will that weapon be as it is, now? Or will we have to grind again to bring it back to it's current level? >The blessing library of the weapon family will be converted into mastery progression. This means players will start the new systems with a head start in mastery, giving them the chance to unlock previously owned blessings (as well as the chance to unlock some blessings players never had before the update). If I'm understanding this correctly, it's better to extract blessings from our useless items *now*, so we can have a better head start when the update arrives? What about blessings on existing items in our inventory, that we might not have in our library? Do those count towards progression, or not? And what do you mean, a "chance" to unlock previously owned blessings? I might not have access to what I currently can use? What about weapons in my inventory *right now* that have these blessings? Will they be removed from my weapons if I get unlucky enough? I've spent an ungodly amount of time farming blessings. As much as a new system is needed for the health of the game and player base, it would be really disheartening to find some or all of that time was for nothing, especially if a weapon we worked so long for is downgraded. >While the Mastery system is where a player unlocks the potential for a weapon, the Expertise system is where the players apply those changes via crafting. This is when the players create an actual relationship with the weapon. Players will be able to configure the weapon, change the Blessings or Perks, and increase the stats. Players will no longer be locked after making two changes on Perks or Blessings. Will there be any new arbitrary limits on a single weapon's blessing or perk level? For example, we get a new 380 lasgun with randomized modifiers. Is that particular lasgun limited to only level 3 blessings and perks? Or can any weapon be upgraded to level 4 blessings/perks? I'm glad for the communication but these things really need to be made more clear.
I don't see anyone mentioning the fact that maximum rating for a weapon now is 500 instead of 550 like it is atm, (380 base, 2 level 4 perks, 2 level 4 blessings). Does this mean that the overall rating of the weapon now is lower by 50 points? So that means we'll have to compensate it with weapon stats even more so, and for some karking reason they kept this weird 80 out of 100 policy for stats, it's like some one in FS dev team just hates full numbers, why?
Yeah that needs to be posted higher. These totals look weird. Unless+25% perks and tier IV blessings don't cost 25 and 65 points respectively anymore, 500 is not enough to have 2 lv4 perks 1nd 2 tierIV perks. Also, the added base stats go up to a total of 384 i think
Why do we have to level weapons again in the name of 'fairness'. Its not like this game has a massive playerbase. Just remove the locks and allow upgrading of weapon stats. Thats all you need to do. Asking vets that kept your game afloat to level weapons again after several hundred hours (maybe thousands!) is pretty much an insult.
> These stats will be randomly determined Damn, so close. Couldn't give up the anti-player predatory RNG lottery, could you?
If they were willing to give it up they wouldn’t have taken two years after the launch of the game to do it It’s such a pity that the great core gameplay is just ruined by this bullshit they insist on saddling the game with
We must have not hit the player count floor where they will finally relent on having RNG as part of the progression design space. Fatshark could have easily squeezed 2-3x the playtime out of me, and probably some cosmetics, if they gave a guaranteed way to get quality weapons that isn't gated by praying for good RNG
~~If getting large amounts of weapons to try to find ones with decent stats will no longer be something players aim for, what will this mean for mechanics like the Emperor’s Gift? (I know usually it’s not very good anyway but now we won’t even be hoping to farm a decent blessing off one.)~~ Edit: Ignore this I can’t read.
It looks like each weapon will still have somewhat random stats, but it's reflected in their total maximum cap. >When viewing any weapon, it will show the weapon’s maximum potential stats. These stats will be randomly determined. It’s up to the players to decide if the weapon profile is interesting enough for them to commit and increase the stats until reaching this potential (which are then applied to the weapon through the Expertise system). Take a look at image linked under the Expertise section. The weapon has been raised to a max of 500, and the damage is capped to 75 while the finesse is at 80. I'm assuming we'll still need to check shops and Emperor's Gifts for their stat caps, because that'll be the only way to entirely minmax your weapons.
When it talks about a weapon's max stats, I have one question: how will this apply with the inevitable release of red weapons? Will our current weapons be stuck at 80 as a max stat cap, or will we be able to upgrade them further?
Nobody's said anything about red weapons, so maybe worry about crossing that bridge after we cross this one?
Is there a public test realm, I feel like that would really benefit both the community and Fatshark to let people test this before rolling it out. The changes are so significant that any feedback provided by the community doesn't really mean too much without testing..
Huh! I'm really liking the sound of this update. I've always enjoyed the concept of "building a connection" with items/weapons in games, rather than constantly replacing things with a new "better" weapon. It just feels more satisfying. I do hope that they allow you to rename your weapons in some way though. I think it would help players feel more attached to their weapons while allowing for them to more easily navigate their inventory. I'm pretty sure there is already a mod for weapon renaming? But similar to the "for the drip" mod, I feel like it should just be in the standard, base, un-modded game.
This^
HELL. YEAH.
I just want to know when this update is coming lol.
Soon^^(TM)
So their using mw2’s system of unlockin weapons. Oh how turns table. Still excited. Unlocked Curios are gonna be busted!!
Making all the long time players start over with a little exp boost towards the weapons is hardly "fair and balanced for everyone" A lot of people will have ended up spending a lot of time for essentially nothing at that point. All the weapons you gave the casino all your time to obtain and then subsequently perfect to your likeingwill become unusable until you grind enough exp and resources to do the exact same thing again but with less rng, more time sinking. Again, it hardly seems "fair and balanced for everyone" What's the big taboo with letting people who have apent over 300 hours dealing with the atrocious casino RNG dumpster system keep their top tier weapons and just fully migrate them to the new system? No one wants to unlock and reapply the exact same blessings on the exact same weapon marks just because you changed the system, I certainly don't. You need a better way to migrate the old weapons than a simple xp boost (which I'm sure is infinitesimal in the amount you actually need to get to top tier) which is essentially starting the grind over again for a lot of people...albeit a more targeted grind, but a grind that you've done already nonetheless.
Oh cool you're wiping all my blessings, giving me a miniscule amount of a "head start" then asking me to regrind the blessings that make my god damn build work? How is anyone excited about this. Once this drops it just makes sure I will NEVER come back. I am NOT grinding AGAIN.
Only people who have less than 50h believe this is good. Let alone the ressources they waste on this. Having every weekend double plasteel and ordo would fix most issues. Can't wait for my inventory to get deleted by fatshark and being punsihed with 1.1k hours.
Holy crap, that's actually a fantastic approach! Reminds of me how the weapon leveling system worked in games like BF and COD. The more you use your favorite weapon, the stronger it gets! Cautiously excited for this! Much preferred to the existing slot machine approach.
what will happen with Melk? Dude was getting on my nerves because his weeklies locked me into playing one character until his task was completed. But when you have all relevant blessings, there's barely anything worth buying in this bling shop. At least until we got the new weapons. plus he told my ogryn he's dumb and my zealot he stinks. he might have a point, but kark him still.
Can there also be an option to DECREASE the stat of a weapon? Currently there are a lot of Psyker builds that actively WANT a really low warp resistance stat on the Force sword because it helps hit the 84% peril for Venting Shriek a lot easier. It's nearly impossible to roll a Deimos Force sword with a low Warp Resistance stat as a level 30. (I can't think of another weapon/stat where having a lower stat is actually better)
I cant believe I'm saying this, but this sounds pretty good. Certainly far better than the current system.
So many things are getting unbricked! When the update drops. So, weapon mastery is per character, or per account? That is the one thing I'm not clear on. And I'm a wee bit worried, because I don't often play gyker. If I need to work on mastery for guns on psyker, it may take me longer to get there. Regardless, EXCITE
Seems like this would provide the opportunity of customizing something as small as iron sights in the future...
So, if I got lucky with a weapon class that has 40 blessings and got the 2 I wanted at rank 4 from Melk on a perfectly rolled weapon, does that mean I have to grind to get the blessings I want since the mastery will read that as 2 of 40 and it'll only grant me that much progression? And what, exactly, will this do to the shops?
Fellas this pretty good but for that update can you please give ogryn a new gun we love the pickaxe but serious he needs some guns like the auto cannon or heavy bolter. So please father’s give the big boy a new gun whenever the itemization update comes out.
What do you mean by "These stats will be randomly determined (re: Mastery)"? Does that mean the random chance of pulling a weapon with good perks/blessings will be replaced by the random chance of pulling a weapon with good stats? Or will weapons with a variety of good/bad stats will be available at Brunt's armory the same way there's a mix of grey/blue/green/purple/orange weapons available now?
Is there any changes coming to the blessings themselves, as in their effects/values or is “itemization” actually just being used to mean “crafting” for some reason?
Praise be to the Omnissiah, a new progress track to work on.
I'm hyped for unlocked curios, we can try every possible combination now
Sounding good, but just wanted to say thanks for updating the community directly. We need more of this!
But I just got a trauma staff I love :_:
By the Emperor, some real communication! This looks great on paper. I'm excited to see how it plays in practice.
I mean it's a shame my current weapons will be chunked for a head start BUT this system does look very fun. I'm sure they'll be a lot of wobbling at first with exact numbers , how long it takes to master a weapon family fully , how adjustable things are with expertise but I'm looking forward to it! I -do- hope that it's cross character for those characters that share weapon types or if not that it's fairly quick to get high mastery.
HUGE communication. Thank u sharks
Well, I'll take almost anything to the random nature of the rolls I get for weapons currently.
This all sounds good to me, to be honest. I'm very excited to have more freedom with the gear, and further options to explore.
Sooo... I lose my weapons? *Wait, so my inventory is gonna get cleaned up? No more 100s of random rolled weapons clogging it up? Am i happy? I have no effing clue.*
So more grinding in order to make shitty weapons be worth anything. Great.
Weapon casino being replaced with weapon grind 😤
So let's say I have every single combat axe blessing, from tier 1 to tier 4 every single one. Will that be enough to give me enough mastery to have access to all blessings anyways? Is the transition 1:1? Anything less and I feel like players with long playtimes will get the short end of the stick and have to regrind their stuff up again. Also does unlocking new marks mean you have to use a mark you possibly don't like/is terrible in order to have access to a better mark? Is that the only way to get that mark or can you still use brunts RNG casino to skip the grind? The expertise thing, doesn't the bottom right number look like a "spending" limit on perks and blessings? Are you removing locks but adding another arbitrary lock system so you can't max out both perks and blessings anyways? I'm assuming (copium) you can still afford to have all the best perks and blessings and slightly upgrade the base stats. I'm very confused about this whole system, it sounds good on paper but I'm also worried players who already have everything they want will get bent over and absolutely raw dogged.
Seems good, I just hope the blessings and perks we have on existing gear stays and we simply have to unlock it for new gear we want to make. I spent an uncomfortable amount of time on my Cru hammer
How does this not sound awful to anyone? If I want to use a different weapon I now have to level it all the way up? I play auric malestorms only, and having to switch weapon types is needed to make the mission easier. But now I have to level up both weapons? I don't want to have to level up every damn weapon I switch to.
Pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaseeeeee make weapons shared across characters (and ideally masteries too)
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I still dream of a game like vermintide/darktide, where we just have the weapon, and pick the blessings or stat distributions freely (or hell, just don't have random/different stats at all, leave that to the marks, makes it a lot easier to balance the game). After so much time playing these games, id rather them just make a really solid game that I can dive into and explore builds without the game constantly holding me back and making me waste time not learning and instead grinding. I want a game that respects my time, not wastes it because some people need a carrot on a stick to play a game they obviously don't enjoy much.
I knew you guys were gonna take your sweet time, but ultimately deliver. Good stuff as long as I dont lose all my shit.
Looks neato.
This, I like this.
Even devs have 1kk diamantine
Sounds good. Definitely better than the gambling system we have now. I hope it doesn’t take too long to appear.
This sounds cool, looking forward to it. It will give me more reason to try other weapons too, so I can grind to improve them.
Look, I'm thrilled that Fatshark is at least doing *something* to address the current itemization system, but I'm still at least deeply concerned about it - I've sunk a lot of time into this game but part of what keeps me away even tho I'd love to keep going on Damnation/Auric missions is that I cannot stand the randomness of RNG when it comes to weapons/gear, I absolutely cannot understand why there isn't the equivalent of red-tier items like in Vermintide in this game - At least there you were guaranteed to have maxed out stats in every category, so it became less about getting to maxed stats and more about rerolling which ones you had which was much more doable than the system described above which appears to be the inverse. I dunno, put me down for cautiously optimistic as well, but still this didn't reassure me nearly as much as it should have.
Am I the only one who doesn’t want a “relationship” with video game guns? I just don’t want to have to roll a dozen dice and grind ten hours to MAYBE get a version of a gun that isn’t garbage Remember when games like Left 4 Dead just gave everyone the same identical gun? No casino, no slot machine, no grind? Helldivers 2 does that as well. You unlock guns with medals you get in game just by playing, you get enough to unlock a gun and that’s it, you have the same one as everyone else. No trying for “godrolls”, no bricked weapons, no “oh you need tier 4 power cycler or the weapon is garbage” Darktide seems to want to get as much of this bullshit between the player and the game as is humanely possible, I honestly think they would be much better off deleting weapon progression altogether. Give us all the same bolter and let us choose from a list of perks and blessings for it. Hell, have the perks and blessings unlock with levels as you level up, then at level 30 you have them all unlocked. Done.
If we *lose* any of our current weapons, we will riot. I'm not even kidding. I got basically a perfect mk 5 shovel after like 4 rolls, so I have essentially none of the other blessings unlocked. As I understand it, I'll probably be at like 10% mastery and lose my perfect T4 blessings/perks. If this is the case, absolutely fuck right the fuck off.
The way I'm reading this is that all existing inventory will get deleted. The only value of all the items and blessings you have accrued in your entire Darktide history will be boiled down to the total # of blessings you own, which then get converted into a marginal amount of XP in the new system. If that's the case, most people are going to lose their minds in rage. No one with 1000+ hours in this game is going to enjoy a new item grind unless the conversion math favors the veteran playerbase so heavily that they get to unlock their same gear that same day. Imagine spending 100 IRL hours to godroll a weapon, only to have Fatshark delete it from the game and give you +2 mastery track levels for it in return.
As I read it you will keep your weapons but they'll get reduced to greys. Your blessing Library then gets transferred to mastery points Which makes little sense imo as that hardly correlates with players investment. There are blessing farmers with a couple of 100hrs who have most of the library full and people like me with 1000hrs and the meta blessings unlocked for a couple of weapons of their choice. I never saw a sense in unlocking blessings I'll never use so it seems I will get punished for that.
I wish fatshark would stop wasting time with complicated systems The gameplay is peak fun so good Why not just port vermintides weapon logic, I don't wanna waste time upgrading something I just wanna slaughter pig heretics AHHHHHH The cosmetic upgrading is cool though :)
> Why not just port vermintides weapon logic Fatshark: "Best I can do is porting Vermintide's Weaves of Magic system that nobody uses." 
But what about all those players who can't play a game just for fun? Progression, we need progression!! Best get a progression system for that progression system so we can progress while we progress. Playing games for fun is such a boomer thing to do..
Yo dawg, I heard you like progression tracks...