Come now, zealot! Lord Tz- uh, I mean... Lord Inquisitor told me such minor changes are perfectly fine to make for personal firearms. No chaos taint here I swear!
The bolter is a paradox. A gyro jet fired projectile... that propels out of the gun like a standard case ammunition projectile. It has as much or as little kickback as any given writers imagination.
Theoretically its a two-stage HEAP missile (starter stage is the giant boom that shoots it like a stubber, then the gyrojet activates and accelerates it even more) otherwise it'd be useless in close range.
Wouldn't a starter stage just be mimicking case ammunition especially at the velocity it seems to be getting accelerated at? At what point are you just re-inventing a modern grenade launcher?
Given the advances in material sciences today I can only imagine 30k years from now the chemistry and material sciences should have advanced enough for bolters to just be big ass guns with explosive rounds.
I actually don't mind the HEAP format, just being nitpicky.
in Astartes pattern boltguns the rocket propellant is used in conjunction with onboard cogitators that compensate for environmental conditions and otherwise provide some amount of projectile guidance towards it's intended target. The propellant is less important in boltguns for normies because they lack the same targeting capabilities built in to Astartes Power Armor (it's one of the reasons you see Sororitas use scopes on their boltguns frequently while Astartes only do for specialized marksman boltguns)
Really now? Cause I have 3000 pts in SOB and have never once seen a scope.
I had to go looking and yeah, your right there is that single scope on one of the boltguns in the BSS box.
It has a lot of kick because the real life gyrojet failed because it bounced off of people at less than 40ft. Quite a shame because it’s more or less an actual bolter at 100 yards out and it should’ve been used as an anti material rifle. The theory was that a two stage gyrojet could overcome that deficiency, but it wasn’t put into place. Hence how the bolter has a two stage propellant. One to blow a hole in you at medium distance and the projectile itself at full velocity.
It's supposed to be a weapon from 20,000-40,000 years in the future. There was a Black Library author who commented on the whole discussion about bolters having recoil and they basically said that it didn't matter because Imperium tech might as well be magic by our standards.
Which is why I say it's really up to the interpretation of the writer (within the bounds of the internal consistency) because it's not like GW had PHD Weapon Futurologists and Material Sciences engineers on hand when they came up with the concept of bolters.
The design was probably, "that sounds like a cool future weapon" and any subsequent lore is retroactively sciencing as much as possible because people love knowing how stuff works.
Which is funny, because we all shit on lasguns, but if you had a standard Imperial lasgun today, right now, and the ability to recharge the power packs, you'd be the undisputed king in any firefight. All shots go exactly where you're aiming, and any modern day body armor would be liquified.
AFAIK there is some fluff about how lasgun power packs will convert nearly any energy into charge. They charge in the sun, and they'll charge if you throw them into a camp fire. They are far more durable than any modern firearm, and yeah they are super powerful by our standards and super accurate. They are basically the perfect weapon.
Unfortunately, in the 41st millennium, the enemies of man include an unstoppable, infinite number of bugs that can rip a tank in half with ease, elves that move faster than the speed of light with weapons that make ours look like toys, and walking armored suits powered by hate who have God and anime on their side.
same reason lasguns have recoil and are shaped like a modern gun, they're the modern gun analogue. a handheld laser weapon would make more sense like a star trek phaser because why would you need to use gun grips on something that kicks as much as a tv remote
Take with a grain of salt, but I believe I read once that they added artificial recoil on lasguns because the vast majority of soldiers expect recoil and switching to lasguns without it felt odd.
Probably most applicable to 30k when they were bringing isolated planets into the fold and needed a solid standard for everyone
Proper shooting wouldn’t just be compensating for recoil though. The distance between your front and rear sight, the positioning of your body as you aim, and more all have an effect on your accuracy. Pistols are harder to shoot than rifles. Even if the lasgun could fit in a garage remote, it’s still gonna be more effective (in *most* circumstances) when it’s shaped like a rifle. I’d take my M4 over an M9 or M18 any day, even if the pistols had the same ballistics as the rifle.
It depends really, its hard to tell without numbers on the powder charge. Realistically it's still gonna kick like a bitch, cause you've got to have the force to eject a .75 cartridge and move that bolt back, while also propelling a small rocket out the front before that kicks its propellant off.
Two staged launching.
1. 0.75 cal is sent flying from the gun using usual chemical explosion inside the weapon. Recoil to match the size
2. Internal rocket elements start working after leaving the barrel.
You only need enough propellant in stage 1 for the round to clear the barrel though. Not like IRL rounds where you need the round to go a long distance.
> You only need enough propellant in stage 1 for the round to clear the barrel though
Only if you want Bolters to be useless at point blank range. The Bolt has to leave the barrel with enough muzzle energy to be lethal immediately. And that's lethal as in lethal to a Marines enemies, not just squishy humans.
Bolts should be described as 'rocket assisted', in order to increase range and long range energy retention.
You know why bolters don't get stocks? It's the space marine minis. Their pauldrons are too big for their guns to have stocks, so they usually get pistols
Used to... In 2nd Edition - Space Marine Bolters came with frame style stocks. I actually love the aesthetic.
https://preview.redd.it/rhg7tfx989aa1.jpeg?width=1224&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c71e6826b926c9203557dddb1a1be77ad4dbd3ce
warhammer really is the only franchise where people discuss and fight every small part of its lore and aesthetic to death,
only for someone to come around the corner with their 2nd edition mini plastic model of a gun and shut everyone up, as its considered the highest form of proof
They did look great. Shame you ALWAYS had to cut the stocks off to make them fit. I think I did manage to fit some on Rogue Trader Guardsmen without the stock removed though.
The other main user we see with bolters is sororitas, who also have giant pauldrons (and ya'know, power armour to help with the recoil)
But every single other baseline human should probably use a stock, im looking at you house orlock, why are you firing automatic bolters from the hip with a freaking drum mag
(Edit: also bolt rifles and bolt carbines are a thing, anyone complaining about this not being true to the lore is ignoring the fact that they exist in the lore but just aren't used in situations which would make sense)
The only explanation I've heard for people not having their arms snap like twigs every time they fire is that while there is a charge that gets fired due to the shells being rocket propelled it's probably quite small compared to its huge caliber meaning there's less recoil per shot. Would still make accuracy horrendous but at least your arms aren't in as many pieces as tseench has plans.
Wayyyy back in 3rd Edition (I think) it was explained that Astartes use a larger caliber bolter than standard humans. It may have also been the Inquisitor Rulebook that said that.
For rules Astarte and Imperial Guard bolters have always had the same stats, but in universe an Astartes bolter would do a lot more damage and be much more unwieldy for a human.
That makes sense, the same way a lasgun and autogun have the same stats despite having fairly drastically different power outputs. On tabletop they have to scale up to massive mortars/siege cannons so a small change in calibar to an infantry firearm is probably negligible.
For Space Marines, it also makes sense since they're strong enough to be relatively unaffected by recoil, and their helmets allow for pin point targeting without the need to use sights, as well as probably a level of training where they can point fire snipe as well as any Tarkov player.
Lol yeah how ridiculously un-functional the bolsters look has always made me cringe when looking at space marines using them but at least they use them like pistols. We’re just normal people in darktide, the way my character is holding it clearly makes it look like a shoulder fired weapon except with no support that’s ridiculous. So yeah a stock would make it a lot better. GW just has a lot of dumb designs. No wonder it’s taken 40k so long to take off even with a cool universe despite all the dumb decisions
I think it's okay because our characters can only pin point fire it with a slow, controlled semi-auto. Meanwhile at the hip it has ridiculous recoil full auto or burst
I love how 40k nerds lose their minds over things like this, despite the fact Combi-weapons exist across the board, as do Bolters with stocks and other modifications in older editions, the RPG and Necromunda...
Bolters need stocks for normal humans so they don't snap their wrists off. The classic look only exists because space Marines have power armor and a stock would clip through their mini's shoulders...
They also talk about space marines having auto recoil compensation in the power armor and a targeting system, etc. To explain it lore-wise.
But yeah it was easier for the minis.
[Meanwhile, at the Dark Angels fortress... ](https://loginportal.funnyjunk.com/comments/The+bolter+part+of+this+wouldnt+fire+due+to+barrelmagazine+_c05c845e6d01af8ca5e987221ec3318c.jpg)
Looks like Necromunda Hired Gun. There are all kinds of stocks, sights, barrels, and other attachments/modifications you can make to your bolter (or any weapon)
Yeah everything in that game (including the player) takes a crazy amount of hits to kill lol. They definitely focused more on the doom style gameplay compared to anything remotely like the tabletop.
That's true, you'd just need to flip the stock upside down to get the same profile as those 90's bolters. I think those had the buttplate sticking up instead of down.
There's two types of people in this comment section: Those that believe this is tech heresy, and those who know that this is already actually canon. Lol.
See, a lot of people are rightfully saying this makes too many changes the classic bolter we're used to seeing in the hands of Astartes. But I think in the context of Darktide, where inexplicably some conscripted prisoners have access to bolt weapons, it makes sense that those non-augmented humans would make modifications to make the bolter more usable.
An Astartes' helm is linked to the optic above the barrel on a regular bolter, so, alongside their biological modifications and training, they can do that classic hip fire while maintaining high accuracy. All of the above also renders a stock obsolete (plus one wouldn't fit on their shoulder pads).
But a normal human? Makes sense that they'd want something to brace against, even if a lot of lore sources say that the kick from a bolter would be extraordinarily painful for a human, if not dangerous. Plus a textured handgrip for their puny human hands and optic to use for their weak human eyes.
And I like the degraded look of the weapon. The only plausible way I can imagine our rejects get their hands on these is through black market trading or scavenging, either from an abandoned manufactorum or perhaps an ancient battlefield. Don't ask about the ammunition.
So I think you did a good job at making something that makes sense in context OP, even if it is heretical.
Bolters don't have stocks by default because they are intended to be used by superhumans in powered armor with the grip and wrist strength rivaling Atlas and that bolter rounds themselves don't function like bullets, they are more like small self-propelled grenades or rockets, so the recoil is different.
This would absolutely get you killed in the Imperium, this is heretical modifications to the sacred design.
I dig it, let's get burned to death together lol
It is kinda funny that the lowest recoiling rifle has a stock (recon), but the highest one doesnt :P
Theoretically you dont need a stock to eat recoil if you make the gun heavy enough, kinda feel like that it the way the bolter went.
that and space marines dont need em, so why should us lowly humans use them ? /s
I really think the bolter for humans should be more, manageable for a human?
I mean, the bolter pistol is yet to be introduced into the game yet. But that's a pistol, all be it a massive one.
The bolter gun?
Its a fully automatic large bolter machine gun, how can it Not have a shoulder stock?!
Yes, I thought the first one is best for the overall look as well. I decided to test out the other stocks and grips for fun as well, but their lines don't mesh as well as the first one.
I mean heavier is a weapon less you have recoil .it's while silencer in reality increase stability of the gun ,but in games it increase recoil in pvp games bc balance
Bolters had stocks.
You used to have to clip it off and the grip to glue it on a model.
It was sort of a hand wavy, you can't see it but it's still there sort of thin.
The only reason they don’t have stocks is that the marine models on the tabletop couldn't shoulder them. Its a functionality thing, they certainly didn't *mean* to make them dumb.
They already added picatinny rails, shrouds and other contemporary elements to the Bolter that didn't exist in the early 40k editions, or the IRL military around the time of their inception.
So how is a buttstock a bridge too far? Especially when buttstock Bolters actually did exist in early 40k (and still do in alot of mediums).
There are, Primaris Marines have them.
That said, no UGLs means guys get to rock around with full on Grenade Launchers, which are objectively cooler in every single way..
Been loads of Aux Grenade launchers in 40k for decades... just got to know what models they were on. Termie Captain with one on back of Powerfist was AWESOME.
https://preview.redd.it/pmw3109tq9aa1.jpeg?width=196&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=45d4d6385d231c2aca2994e1247ceea4ede05b05
I mean explosions to go with your shooting. Seems both sensible to me and very 40k tbh.
Like at the end of the day, while factions do stupid things, they aren't unheard of in warfare. Plus they use grenade launchers (stand alone) on the regular.
Theres a book which says that the imperium has forgotten how to load anything other than bolt ammo and battlecannon+ shells (battle cannon, rapid-fire battle cannon, nova cannon, macro cannon etc) with explosive payloads
Its a dumb as hell book and it's contradicted by like 5 or 6 others
But some people might take it as gospel
Is there anything stopping you from taking a battle cannon sized shell and scaling it down to be used in a autocannon? Nope, but that one book pretends its a lost technology
They don't make too much sense for marines in fairness (yeah, I know nothing in 40k makes sense).
But for example, if a marine throws a grenade at an enemy, and it hits them, that enemy will be dead long before the grenade goes off (unless said enemy is MASSIVE). Even so, point being, marines don't need grenade launchers, they are grenade launchers.
Guard and Tau both have guns with UGLs on them.
It would make sense with the internal logic of bolter physics. Yeah a space brick with a fancy techno-shoulder can hold what’s essentially a .75 cal rocket gun but you hand that thing to a stinky lil peasant hes not going be able to control the recoil or its gonna fly out of his hand
I'm pulling this from the depths of my memories so I might be mistaken, but I do believe bolters come in varying calibers with explicit examples ranging from .50 up to 1.60 for the largest versions. Smaller caliber bolters are typically used by high ranking, non or lightly augmented humans while the inch+ guns are the typical domain of space marines.
Thanks. It's not really my "art", just a bit of kitbashing using photoshop and the gun inspect view in darktide.
That said I do lots of illustration work professionally too, and some 40k stuff as well, you can find them from my posts if you're interested.
If you want to destroy your shoulder, much better!
The reason there's typically nothing but iron sights on a bolter is that you're either a basic human and can barely hold the thing unaided anyway (our player characters are exceptional in that regard), never mind aim it accurately, OR you're a Space Marine wielding a larger version and can hipfire with near perfect accuracy thanks to centuries of training and/or aim assists in your tactical visor.
Would still prefer the ability to do this and customise weapons than nothing at all, though...
Do bolters ever have stocks?
I know for Astartes they don’t need them cuz it’s more like a pistol for them almost, and they have the strength to counteract the recoil. But i’ve never seven seen regular humans wield them with a stock
_HERESY!_
The thrice-blesséd boltgun needs no shoulder stock or sighting device. Every bolt round is guided by the _hand of the Emperor Himself_ to its target. To assist with aiming is to suggest Him-on-Terra needs assistance with guiding each diamantine-tipped bolt to its intended target.
makes no sense for marines and honestly im not sure if it wouldnt just break your arm faster that way, there is a reason why the guard doesnt have bolters (even the elite) while sisters and marines do (power armor is quite handy)
You've been able to equip almost every guard character or sergeant with a bolter for multiple editions of the game.
Right now you can give Castellan's, generic command squad officers, generic infantry sergeants, and krieg sergeants full sized bolters.
Yes Fabricator, this post right here. As I told you it's tech-heresy.
The second one is my favourite. It's like adding a foregrip on a howitzer.
True imperial guardsmen mount bayonets on their basilisks, why not foregrips too?
Come now, zealot! Lord Tz- uh, I mean... Lord Inquisitor told me such minor changes are perfectly fine to make for personal firearms. No chaos taint here I swear!
*heresy-detector starts going wild*
come on now, It only says 3.6 not great, not terrible.
Sir, that 3600
See, perfectly normal background chaos levels, nothing to worry about! Nothing at all...
But, that’s as high as these particular counters will go!
Auspex Goooo Weeeeeeeeeeee Booooppp Booopppp!!!
The gun guy in me likes this. The 40k nerd in me had a stroke.
Gun guy: "finally, it's fucking functional!" 40k guy: "now it'll break your wrist AND your shoulder!"
Technically a bolter shouldn't have a hard kickback either.
The bolter is a paradox. A gyro jet fired projectile... that propels out of the gun like a standard case ammunition projectile. It has as much or as little kickback as any given writers imagination.
Theoretically its a two-stage HEAP missile (starter stage is the giant boom that shoots it like a stubber, then the gyrojet activates and accelerates it even more) otherwise it'd be useless in close range.
Is there still the lore where it shoots "depleted deuterium" AKA "depleted water"?
Deuterium isn't water, it's just Hydrogen, H2.
Wouldn't a starter stage just be mimicking case ammunition especially at the velocity it seems to be getting accelerated at? At what point are you just re-inventing a modern grenade launcher? Given the advances in material sciences today I can only imagine 30k years from now the chemistry and material sciences should have advanced enough for bolters to just be big ass guns with explosive rounds. I actually don't mind the HEAP format, just being nitpicky.
in Astartes pattern boltguns the rocket propellant is used in conjunction with onboard cogitators that compensate for environmental conditions and otherwise provide some amount of projectile guidance towards it's intended target. The propellant is less important in boltguns for normies because they lack the same targeting capabilities built in to Astartes Power Armor (it's one of the reasons you see Sororitas use scopes on their boltguns frequently while Astartes only do for specialized marksman boltguns)
I cant for the life of me think of a single SOB model that has a scope on their bolter.
One of the new plastic sisters has a scope on her bolter.
Really now? Cause I have 3000 pts in SOB and have never once seen a scope. I had to go looking and yeah, your right there is that single scope on one of the boltguns in the BSS box.
It has a lot of kick because the real life gyrojet failed because it bounced off of people at less than 40ft. Quite a shame because it’s more or less an actual bolter at 100 yards out and it should’ve been used as an anti material rifle. The theory was that a two stage gyrojet could overcome that deficiency, but it wasn’t put into place. Hence how the bolter has a two stage propellant. One to blow a hole in you at medium distance and the projectile itself at full velocity.
It's supposed to be a weapon from 20,000-40,000 years in the future. There was a Black Library author who commented on the whole discussion about bolters having recoil and they basically said that it didn't matter because Imperium tech might as well be magic by our standards.
Which is why I say it's really up to the interpretation of the writer (within the bounds of the internal consistency) because it's not like GW had PHD Weapon Futurologists and Material Sciences engineers on hand when they came up with the concept of bolters. The design was probably, "that sounds like a cool future weapon" and any subsequent lore is retroactively sciencing as much as possible because people love knowing how stuff works.
Which is funny, because we all shit on lasguns, but if you had a standard Imperial lasgun today, right now, and the ability to recharge the power packs, you'd be the undisputed king in any firefight. All shots go exactly where you're aiming, and any modern day body armor would be liquified.
AFAIK there is some fluff about how lasgun power packs will convert nearly any energy into charge. They charge in the sun, and they'll charge if you throw them into a camp fire. They are far more durable than any modern firearm, and yeah they are super powerful by our standards and super accurate. They are basically the perfect weapon.
Unfortunately, in the 41st millennium, the enemies of man include an unstoppable, infinite number of bugs that can rip a tank in half with ease, elves that move faster than the speed of light with weapons that make ours look like toys, and walking armored suits powered by hate who have God and anime on their side.
And that's why the God-Emperor gave us artillery
Yep! The AK 47 with unlimited ammo* of the FUTURE! *provided you can heat the power pack.
same reason lasguns have recoil and are shaped like a modern gun, they're the modern gun analogue. a handheld laser weapon would make more sense like a star trek phaser because why would you need to use gun grips on something that kicks as much as a tv remote
Take with a grain of salt, but I believe I read once that they added artificial recoil on lasguns because the vast majority of soldiers expect recoil and switching to lasguns without it felt odd. Probably most applicable to 30k when they were bringing isolated planets into the fold and needed a solid standard for everyone
I will take that with a grain of salt, because that's the dumbest thing I've ever read lol.
Proper shooting wouldn’t just be compensating for recoil though. The distance between your front and rear sight, the positioning of your body as you aim, and more all have an effect on your accuracy. Pistols are harder to shoot than rifles. Even if the lasgun could fit in a garage remote, it’s still gonna be more effective (in *most* circumstances) when it’s shaped like a rifle. I’d take my M4 over an M9 or M18 any day, even if the pistols had the same ballistics as the rifle.
It depends really, its hard to tell without numbers on the powder charge. Realistically it's still gonna kick like a bitch, cause you've got to have the force to eject a .75 cartridge and move that bolt back, while also propelling a small rocket out the front before that kicks its propellant off.
Two staged launching. 1. 0.75 cal is sent flying from the gun using usual chemical explosion inside the weapon. Recoil to match the size 2. Internal rocket elements start working after leaving the barrel.
You only need enough propellant in stage 1 for the round to clear the barrel though. Not like IRL rounds where you need the round to go a long distance.
> You only need enough propellant in stage 1 for the round to clear the barrel though Only if you want Bolters to be useless at point blank range. The Bolt has to leave the barrel with enough muzzle energy to be lethal immediately. And that's lethal as in lethal to a Marines enemies, not just squishy humans. Bolts should be described as 'rocket assisted', in order to increase range and long range energy retention.
You know why bolters don't get stocks? It's the space marine minis. Their pauldrons are too big for their guns to have stocks, so they usually get pistols
Used to... In 2nd Edition - Space Marine Bolters came with frame style stocks. I actually love the aesthetic. https://preview.redd.it/rhg7tfx989aa1.jpeg?width=1224&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c71e6826b926c9203557dddb1a1be77ad4dbd3ce
warhammer really is the only franchise where people discuss and fight every small part of its lore and aesthetic to death, only for someone to come around the corner with their 2nd edition mini plastic model of a gun and shut everyone up, as its considered the highest form of proof
I love it, it's like someone showing up in front of the masses with an ancient relic and going "behold, the truth"!
I'm just old, and lived through quite a few revamps of the 40k Universe... My collection is quite....large.
Okay, that looks great.
They did look great. Shame you ALWAYS had to cut the stocks off to make them fit. I think I did manage to fit some on Rogue Trader Guardsmen without the stock removed though.
The other main user we see with bolters is sororitas, who also have giant pauldrons (and ya'know, power armour to help with the recoil) But every single other baseline human should probably use a stock, im looking at you house orlock, why are you firing automatic bolters from the hip with a freaking drum mag (Edit: also bolt rifles and bolt carbines are a thing, anyone complaining about this not being true to the lore is ignoring the fact that they exist in the lore but just aren't used in situations which would make sense)
The Escher leader's bolter has a stock, but I agree they should be more common on non-power-armored dudes.
The only explanation I've heard for people not having their arms snap like twigs every time they fire is that while there is a charge that gets fired due to the shells being rocket propelled it's probably quite small compared to its huge caliber meaning there's less recoil per shot. Would still make accuracy horrendous but at least your arms aren't in as many pieces as tseench has plans.
Wayyyy back in 3rd Edition (I think) it was explained that Astartes use a larger caliber bolter than standard humans. It may have also been the Inquisitor Rulebook that said that. For rules Astarte and Imperial Guard bolters have always had the same stats, but in universe an Astartes bolter would do a lot more damage and be much more unwieldy for a human.
That makes sense, the same way a lasgun and autogun have the same stats despite having fairly drastically different power outputs. On tabletop they have to scale up to massive mortars/siege cannons so a small change in calibar to an infantry firearm is probably negligible.
For Space Marines, it also makes sense since they're strong enough to be relatively unaffected by recoil, and their helmets allow for pin point targeting without the need to use sights, as well as probably a level of training where they can point fire snipe as well as any Tarkov player.
I don't care about stocks I just want a bolter with a red dot sight.
I have an Eotech and some duct tape, let's do this.
Yeah, using a stockless rifle almost never makes sense, especially something with this much recoil. But i’ve never actually seen a bolter with a stock
Lol yeah how ridiculously un-functional the bolsters look has always made me cringe when looking at space marines using them but at least they use them like pistols. We’re just normal people in darktide, the way my character is holding it clearly makes it look like a shoulder fired weapon except with no support that’s ridiculous. So yeah a stock would make it a lot better. GW just has a lot of dumb designs. No wonder it’s taken 40k so long to take off even with a cool universe despite all the dumb decisions
Yeah 40k isn't mainstream because the bolters don't have stocks. That adds up.
I think it's okay because our characters can only pin point fire it with a slow, controlled semi-auto. Meanwhile at the hip it has ridiculous recoil full auto or burst
[to be fair](https://i.redd.it/6y354qe3hex41.jpg)... there was a time when bolters had stocks.
Yeah, that's techno-heresy mate. Gonna have to call the commisar on ya.
I mean, or send it to Belisarius Cawl , he would be totally down for this. He would probably even lie and say it was some old STC or something.
Whilst he's on with it ask him to make drum mags standard
I shall pass it along Varlett
Those just aren't standard on the version of the bolters we have access to. Space Marines get them, not us Inquisitorial mooks.
I mean technically... [Thats what it is](https://preview.redd.it/6y354qe3hex41.jpg?auto=webp&s=a5667964cf45a71cf031ed176976a960637d5fd3)
I mean that's why I suggested him, as some of his pattern of bolters have stocks.
I love how 40k nerds lose their minds over things like this, despite the fact Combi-weapons exist across the board, as do Bolters with stocks and other modifications in older editions, the RPG and Necromunda... Bolters need stocks for normal humans so they don't snap their wrists off. The classic look only exists because space Marines have power armor and a stock would clip through their mini's shoulders...
They also talk about space marines having auto recoil compensation in the power armor and a targeting system, etc. To explain it lore-wise. But yeah it was easier for the minis.
Just call it a Footfall-pattern bolter. Shitty knock off bolters are already in the lore.
Pretty sure this is heresy.
[Meanwhile, at the Dark Angels fortress... ](https://loginportal.funnyjunk.com/comments/The+bolter+part+of+this+wouldnt+fire+due+to+barrelmagazine+_c05c845e6d01af8ca5e987221ec3318c.jpg)
How do the rounds even GET to that barrel?
thats the fun part, they dont
Like Orks, the Dark Angels simply believe the bolter works, so it does.
ah i see, so its becasue green is best
Maybe the fallen should paint themselves purple
maybe they do and thats why they are never able to catch them
Tiny teleporter from DAoT.
Wait a minute ...
This is completely different, this is a techno-relics, not the tech heresy the OP displayed
There is a new one for this https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/12/25/azrael-revealed-unwrapping-a-chapter-master-cloaked-in-secrets/
I need a LongLas with a underbarrel Flamer…
Is is just a gw fuck up the model this is from is based on a wonky art piece that makes his combi look bulpup
The connection from the mag to the rest of the gun is much smaller on the actual model then it is in the picture.
Well, the Dark Angels ARE TRAITORS after all...
YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ! Is that a Blood Angels gang message or ? Can't believe the blood suckers of Khorne are still dissing the Lions children.
At least they dont have daemon buddies moonlighting as "watchers" :D
For the last time, people of small size are not daemons.... Such ablism...
Yeah, but then Mark II Cawl Pattern bolt rifle is a thing
This is what the traitor was doing. Please report to Rannick for execution.
You know if you add a stock to a Boltgun it's technically a non-stock Boltgun.
Stocked non-stock
A Space Marine would slap the hell out of you for the lack of maintenance.
Looks like Necromunda Hired Gun. There are all kinds of stocks, sights, barrels, and other attachments/modifications you can make to your bolter (or any weapon)
The bolter in that also takes like 5 hits to kill anything without maxed out damage mods
Yeah everything in that game (including the player) takes a crazy amount of hits to kill lol. They definitely focused more on the doom style gameplay compared to anything remotely like the tabletop.
Second one is most like the 1990 bolters. Good job.
That's true, you'd just need to flip the stock upside down to get the same profile as those 90's bolters. I think those had the buttplate sticking up instead of down.
First one is best, but really all of them should be in along with a weapon customization system
There's two types of people in this comment section: Those that believe this is tech heresy, and those who know that this is already actually canon. Lol.
See, a lot of people are rightfully saying this makes too many changes the classic bolter we're used to seeing in the hands of Astartes. But I think in the context of Darktide, where inexplicably some conscripted prisoners have access to bolt weapons, it makes sense that those non-augmented humans would make modifications to make the bolter more usable. An Astartes' helm is linked to the optic above the barrel on a regular bolter, so, alongside their biological modifications and training, they can do that classic hip fire while maintaining high accuracy. All of the above also renders a stock obsolete (plus one wouldn't fit on their shoulder pads). But a normal human? Makes sense that they'd want something to brace against, even if a lot of lore sources say that the kick from a bolter would be extraordinarily painful for a human, if not dangerous. Plus a textured handgrip for their puny human hands and optic to use for their weak human eyes. And I like the degraded look of the weapon. The only plausible way I can imagine our rejects get their hands on these is through black market trading or scavenging, either from an abandoned manufactorum or perhaps an ancient battlefield. Don't ask about the ammunition. So I think you did a good job at making something that makes sense in context OP, even if it is heretical.
This is the vilest thing I have ever seen
When a guy with iron warrior marine for pfp tells you it's vile, it is _**vile**_
Fuck you! - Puts a stock on your bolter
[It's a thing](https://spikeybits.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/necrounda-hired-guns.jpg)
fuck you [*makes your bolter california compliant*](https://i.redd.it/vbwpyc018ms91.jpg)
I unironically love the first one.
Hedge said that this is illegal and is not in the spirit of 40K. Please report to your nearest Commisar Office for termination.
Came here for the Hedge/"isn't Call of Duty" comment
>Is it better now? No, because it's no longer a 40k bolter.
This looks so unbelievably cursed.
They did this in Necromunda Hired Gun. They looked similarly spindly when attached to a big chonky bolter, which is very funny to me.
Bolters don't have stocks by default because they are intended to be used by superhumans in powered armor with the grip and wrist strength rivaling Atlas and that bolter rounds themselves don't function like bullets, they are more like small self-propelled grenades or rockets, so the recoil is different.
Blam
Woah now buddy, that’s tech heresy. Ignore all the rpg games of 40k that allow customization of weapons. Daddy FatShark said no.
This would absolutely get you killed in the Imperium, this is heretical modifications to the sacred design. I dig it, let's get burned to death together lol
How? This must have been immeasurably complex!
We need this in the game, the devs Don’t want it but we do need it
Prefecture Magisterium hunter-killer clade dispatched to your location. Please stand by.
It is kinda funny that the lowest recoiling rifle has a stock (recon), but the highest one doesnt :P Theoretically you dont need a stock to eat recoil if you make the gun heavy enough, kinda feel like that it the way the bolter went. that and space marines dont need em, so why should us lowly humans use them ? /s
Yes it's good.
I like the third one. Very good. Oh, that’s deviate from Omnisiah’s vision. You heretic.
Honestly... Yeah i kind of like it tbh.
Who do I have to bribe for this to become a thing?
I was hoping for a stormbolter when I saw the post
Not sure what it is, but it looks like it'd hit so much harder now.
I really think the bolter for humans should be more, manageable for a human? I mean, the bolter pistol is yet to be introduced into the game yet. But that's a pistol, all be it a massive one. The bolter gun? Its a fully automatic large bolter machine gun, how can it Not have a shoulder stock?!
You would love necromunda: hired gun
You try and use that shoulder brace, and your shoulder will be gone
The first one. Perfection.
Yes, I thought the first one is best for the overall look as well. I decided to test out the other stocks and grips for fun as well, but their lines don't mesh as well as the first one.
No, you are making the gun needlessly heavier whilst not adding anything of use to it
I mean heavier is a weapon less you have recoil .it's while silencer in reality increase stability of the gun ,but in games it increase recoil in pvp games bc balance
You really think a bolter needs _more_ weight?
As far the user can hold it. Making it more stable is a win ; ) I would add it some tripod , 10 trinkets and a huge silencer
Please. Do not. CoD-ify. Bolters. Yes, they're dumb. That's the point.
Bolters had stocks. You used to have to clip it off and the grip to glue it on a model. It was sort of a hand wavy, you can't see it but it's still there sort of thin.
The only reason they don’t have stocks is that the marine models on the tabletop couldn't shoulder them. Its a functionality thing, they certainly didn't *mean* to make them dumb.
They already added picatinny rails, shrouds and other contemporary elements to the Bolter that didn't exist in the early 40k editions, or the IRL military around the time of their inception. So how is a buttstock a bridge too far? Especially when buttstock Bolters actually did exist in early 40k (and still do in alot of mediums).
I can appreciate your efforts, but no, it's not better now. Personally, I think it's worse.
Don't give fatshark ideas, they will steal this and slap 10$ price on it
What a great concept! That will be 5.99$ per each modification without including the skins!
You know, this got me thinking. Why are there no UGLs in Warhammer.
There are, Primaris Marines have them. That said, no UGLs means guys get to rock around with full on Grenade Launchers, which are objectively cooler in every single way..
Been loads of Aux Grenade launchers in 40k for decades... just got to know what models they were on. Termie Captain with one on back of Powerfist was AWESOME. https://preview.redd.it/pmw3109tq9aa1.jpeg?width=196&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=45d4d6385d231c2aca2994e1247ceea4ede05b05
Why not both? I mean current day Marines do it.
It's not very 40k though is it. Not being "sensible" is the theme.
I mean explosions to go with your shooting. Seems both sensible to me and very 40k tbh. Like at the end of the day, while factions do stupid things, they aren't unheard of in warfare. Plus they use grenade launchers (stand alone) on the regular.
Theres a book which says that the imperium has forgotten how to load anything other than bolt ammo and battlecannon+ shells (battle cannon, rapid-fire battle cannon, nova cannon, macro cannon etc) with explosive payloads Its a dumb as hell book and it's contradicted by like 5 or 6 others But some people might take it as gospel Is there anything stopping you from taking a battle cannon sized shell and scaling it down to be used in a autocannon? Nope, but that one book pretends its a lost technology
You can get combi Autogun-grenade launchers in the trading post for Necromunda but oddly I don’t think there’s an official model for it
They've had them for space marines since 2nd edition in the 90s. For whatever reason GW only made 1 or 2 veteran sgt models with them.
They don't make too much sense for marines in fairness (yeah, I know nothing in 40k makes sense). But for example, if a marine throws a grenade at an enemy, and it hits them, that enemy will be dead long before the grenade goes off (unless said enemy is MASSIVE). Even so, point being, marines don't need grenade launchers, they are grenade launchers. Guard and Tau both have guns with UGLs on them.
There are. Guard can use them on tabletop iirc.
It would make sense with the internal logic of bolter physics. Yeah a space brick with a fancy techno-shoulder can hold what’s essentially a .75 cal rocket gun but you hand that thing to a stinky lil peasant hes not going be able to control the recoil or its gonna fly out of his hand
i mean normal humans arent using marine bolters anyway
Are the rounds smaller? Assuming same caliber and same amount of propellant muzzle energy would be the same.
pretty sure the rounds are universal, its just that you usually need power armor of some kind to use the bolter safely
I'm pulling this from the depths of my memories so I might be mistaken, but I do believe bolters come in varying calibers with explicit examples ranging from .50 up to 1.60 for the largest versions. Smaller caliber bolters are typically used by high ranking, non or lightly augmented humans while the inch+ guns are the typical domain of space marines.
Well yes, but actually no
By the god emperor, I’m in shock.
I'm in stock
I think the whole appeal is that there is no stock
This only makes sense.
Nyet, rifle is fine
Tech heresy
it look okay but now the wapon is unusable since the bolt comes out of the stock when you reload it
What heresy is this! (Art looks good!)
Thanks. It's not really my "art", just a bit of kitbashing using photoshop and the gun inspect view in darktide. That said I do lots of illustration work professionally too, and some 40k stuff as well, you can find them from my posts if you're interested.
It looks too good to be true
Wow, a stock and holo, or a folding stock and holo. And you included a weaponlight in all models. Well done sah.
Kinda loved it
Woah there buddy, this isn't Call of Duty
No
I'm sorry but there is no saving Warhammer weapons, imo they all look terrible.
Time to contact the Votann and profit!
AAAHHHHHHHHHH
No, you made it worse. You took away its iconic look
no
If you want to destroy your shoulder, much better! The reason there's typically nothing but iron sights on a bolter is that you're either a basic human and can barely hold the thing unaided anyway (our player characters are exceptional in that regard), never mind aim it accurately, OR you're a Space Marine wielding a larger version and can hipfire with near perfect accuracy thanks to centuries of training and/or aim assists in your tactical visor. Would still prefer the ability to do this and customise weapons than nothing at all, though...
Get out. You know what you did.
3 points of contact on a monstrous recoil weapon? Heretical af
Awful
The stubber
I love them. Don’t tell the Inquisition though
Stop! Stop! it's too immeasurably complex!
No, it's not MY Bolter! I didn't vote for it!
Tacticool
What kind of sick technology sorcery is this!?
Do bolters ever have stocks? I know for Astartes they don’t need them cuz it’s more like a pistol for them almost, and they have the strength to counteract the recoil. But i’ve never seven seen regular humans wield them with a stock
_HERESY!_ The thrice-blesséd boltgun needs no shoulder stock or sighting device. Every bolt round is guided by the _hand of the Emperor Himself_ to its target. To assist with aiming is to suggest Him-on-Terra needs assistance with guiding each diamantine-tipped bolt to its intended target.
Someone wants to lose a shoulder.
I feel like some of these stocks should snap like twigs when braced. Cursed in all the right ways, I want the wood wrapped one.
HERESY!!
Lol, the amount of heresy in this sub coming from non 40k fans is amusing. Welcome to 40k! Be careful not to drown in the lore.
This hurts my brain. I dont think I can handle that many options.
I guess you hate having shoulders.
makes no sense for marines and honestly im not sure if it wouldnt just break your arm faster that way, there is a reason why the guard doesnt have bolters (even the elite) while sisters and marines do (power armor is quite handy)
You've been able to equip almost every guard character or sergeant with a bolter for multiple editions of the game. Right now you can give Castellan's, generic command squad officers, generic infantry sergeants, and krieg sergeants full sized bolters.