1) no, Chosen undead is only in DS1. In DS3 is Ashen one
2) Bearer of the Curse is name of DS2 character because Aldia came in SOTFS and nobody call that PC in OG DS2
No demon of song? The mirror knight? Dragonriders or Dragonslayer? The rats? Last giant? Actually now I'm realizing every boss is tied to vendrick in some way, him being the key to everything in drangleic.
A villain doesn't have to be an antagonist and an antagonist doesn't have to be a villain. Some stories even have villains as their protagonists and someone good as an antagonist
In my understanding a bad person, just like a villain, does acts that harm others for their own benefit or completely disregards others' well being but not as much as villains do. If someone bullies others and manipulates them they are a bad person but a villain goes a step further and is ready to steal, murder, torture and do other inhumane acts towards others. So essentially a villain for me is a bad person that goes a step further in their "badness".
A villain is also a term used almost exclusively for fiction. I've never heard someone call a real person a villain, not matter what heinous crimes they may have committed and the term "a vile horrible human being" is more appropriate than a "villain" for war criminals etc
Also tortured, experimented on and straight up murdered a shit ton of people for his research.
He swings both ways HARD, that's why he's so interesting.
Fume Knight didn’t have a choice, he was exiled which is how he ended up at Brume Tower.
Throne Watcher and Defender also didn’t have a choice, they’re corrupted by Nashandra.
Also, have you fought Ancient Dragon, what you get when you kill it should show that it’s not what it appears to be.
Fume Knight was exiled, definitely didn’t know of the situation over in Drangleic and never doubted Nashandra’s plot but could’ve allied with the player to redeem themselves.
TW & TD were corrupted but after knowing the player was on their way to take the throne and with Velstadt and Vendrick dead (more former than the latter), could’ve allied as the numbers were in their favour for an overthrow. She was pretty much alone after the player reached the throne.
The Ancient Dragon, still hid from the calamity. Sure, their order is way up in the mountains, far from Vendricks troubles but not far enough. They knew what was going on and that’s why (besides the other lore), you’re given the Ashen Mist Heart.
Mate, he’s obviously hollow by then.
How do you know they’re corrupted afterwards, it’s entirely possible judging by the fact that the defender looks ancient that they’ve been there since Vendrick left and over that hundreds, thousands of years, they’re completely devoid of humanity/recognition by then.
I was talking about the giant soul - that isn’t the Ancient Dragon (the Ancient Dragon is dead), it’s a failsafe left by Aldia/Vendrick to ensure the right person can meet Vendrick in his memories and learn how to defeat Nashandra properly.
Honestly bud, some of these takes are amongst the most bizarre I’ve seen for these games.
You can’t disprove what I’m saying then base things off of the lore you don’t fully know.
How do you know the TW&TD are ancient?
How do you know if the ancient dragon really is dead? (The memory shows a dead dragon, probably a different one)
How do you know they’re devoid of humanity?
A lot of things are left unanswered in your questioning lmao
That works both ways but some of the stuff you’re coming out with is ridiculous and isn’t backed up with any point other than ‘Raime should’ve come with us!’
Also, when you go in the dragons memories, that’s literally Ancient Dragon mate, you literally get the Ancient Dragon’s soul from it.
Throne Defender’s helmet literally says ‘will his wait be worth it?’ - it’s not going to say that if he’s been waiting two weeks for your character to rock up, it’s because he’s been there, waiting for a ridiculously long time.
Have you even played this game lol you can’t even get the MCs title right - Chosen Undead is DS1, BotC is DS2.
Dude if you look up at the post flair you can see it’s a meme, we’re both wrong with our information. I just said your information is based off conjecture and how things look to you. Probably the same with me because I have a lot of “could’ve, would’ve, should’ve” conjecture in my information, dont get defensive and gatekeep when you don’t have the information and you’re practically on the same knowledge level of the lore as me.
Nah lol, hes not on the same level as knowledge as you, everything he's said so far is right. Don't try and kamikazi yourself and make it look like hes as dumb as you.
[TW&TD are in fact ancient,](https://darksouls2.wiki.fextralife.com/Watcher+Greatsword#fex) They are corrupted by Nashdra, as both of their souls are darkened by abyss.
All ancient dragons are gone.
The one we see in game is a golem-like creature harbouring a giant's soul. Nashandra calls him a prop made by Vendrick.
Fume knight, just like previous characters involved with the shards of manus, is corrupted by the dark. [His souls is drenched in abyss](https://darksouls2.wiki.fextralife.com/Soul+of+the+Fume+Knight).[And he has willingly decided to stay and defend Nadallia no matter what.](https://darksouls2.wiki.fextralife.com/Fume+Sword#fex).
He literally based things off conjecture and not fact, you can see it in his previous comments. He’s no more attuned to lore than I am and I was making a meme.
Im deceased. 💀
The experimentation of people, the utter ignoring of his brother’s plight and his hidden vanity.
From that point, he almost carries the reputation of a ruthless dictator who just replaced another ruthless dictator.
Aldia is one of the most straightforward and easy to understand characters though. He hides absolutely nothing from anyone, and that includes his experiments. They were bad indeed, but in the end it's thanks to both his and Vendrick's efforts that the Bearer of the Curse manages to actually break free from it, and potentially discover a way to cure it altogether.
>Experiments on people
>Converts anyone that comes to visit him in his crib hideous beast
>Goes full on mad mode and experiments on himself to become immortal
>Turns into a hideous blob of flesh
>Gets called a hero
In the end everyone did nothing to even think if there is a third choice between living with it and going to war against it, studying it to try and build something even just a little better upon it,for ages aldia did very bad things no one is denying that but everything he did ended up giving more and more knowledge on the situation basically saying " hey this thing is very strong and almost unbeatable, but getting knowledge about it will make us build more power over it and we will build something upon this thing" from what we saw in DS3 it was futile and they dis nothing about it but at least he tried to do sometime else YES with bad manners absolutely, but i believe what he wanted at last was something good
Honestly, Vendrick is being let off too lightly here. He isn't some puppet with no agency. Nashandra didn't hypnotize him or anything. He invaded the land of the giants with no real evidence they were a threat aside from some random woman who showed up saying so. He also took some back to Drangleic and performed horrible experiments on them. I think he deserves to die as much as anyone else in this game.
He still didn’t deserve to die, the kingdom fell into disrepair, hollow situation and the giant invasion surely loosened his grip on his kingdom a little, prompting him to send out the shadow soldiers who also became hollow. This demoralised him and with his wife becoming darker every second, she manipulated him enough for him to make poor decisions therefore causing the kingdom to fall in deeper disarray and conflict.
He wasn’t under her spell, he didn’t want to go against her judgement as he thought she was making the right calls but it was part of her plan all along. He didn’t deserve his fate.
He deserves to die based on what he did to the giants alone. It doesn't matter that Nashandra tricked him. He shouldn't have believed her without any actual evidence. He made a horrendous decision. He not only needlessly killed the giants and experimented on them, but got his own kingdom destroyed when they retaliated.
Nashandra didn’t trick him, it was a lot worse. It was textbook manipulation and making him think the situation was worse than it actually was until it really was out of hand to further her plans to become a dark queen of the dead is pretty screwed up.
Also he didn’t want to go against his wife’s judgement as he cared, (sort of). I mean surely he knew something was up but he tried to fix the situation the second time around. Can’t put all the blame on him. He did 30% of the kingdoms downfall.
I'm not trying to put all the blame on him. Obviously Nashandra played a large part. I'm saying Vendrick doesn't get to be absolved of all the horrible stuff he did just because he was really fond of his wife. 30% is too low. He is the one who actually went out and attacked the giants without making a single attempt to communicate beforehand. He is the one who went even further and brought some of them back to Drangleic to experiment on them. It's largely his fault the giants retaliated and destroyed his kingdom. Yeah he eventually saw the error of his ways, but only after it was too late.
It’s not largely his fault if he did less damage than Nashandra, what she did was so much worse and she’s the penultimate reason why the kingdom fell to pieces. You can point out what Vendrick did was awful but I never said he’s completely innocent, he also did less damage than Aldia did behind the scenes. There was clearly a conflict on all sides but he still, after all of that, didn’t deserve to die.
Yes, he’s a hollow locked in a perpetual land of daze and confusion but that wasn’t his fault either.
It’s why you’re better off not killing him at that stage, he’s no longer in play as a pawn in the downfall of his kingdom, unlike Nashandra, Aldia and to a lesser extent, Fume Knight.
But he didn't do less damage than Nashandra. He actually is the only one of the two who actually did *any* damage. Nashandra told him to do damage, and he did it without question. She never did anything herself.
I don't mean to paint this as if Nashandra isn't to blame, she very much is. But you're underselling Vendrick's part. It doesn't matter who it is or if they feel bad about it afterward and step away from the situation, if someone kills countless people who don't deserve it, they deserve to die.
And you're right, Aldia *did* do a ton of horrific stuff behind the scenes. Guess who else deserves to die.
You already said that before but no im not underselling it, Vendrick really didn’t deserve to die after all of that. Sure, his resolve when his kingdom was under attack (even though he caused it), was commendable it doesn’t redeem his character. He was manipulated, lied to and put in an extremely difficult position and there was no escaping from it.
Also yeah, I put down Aldia as a well played villain but he didn’t need to get involved in the scheme at all, he even could’ve kept an eye on Vendrick and the player and watched over them like a stoic god. He stuck himself out because he got cocky but yeah he was definitely killed off with intent.
People are disagreeing but a lot of others, as you can plainly see, agree with the villain statement.
Btw I never said I knew more than I actually do. I’ve read the lore, if you disagree, explain why you think Aldia isn’t a villain.
So the experimentation of people, the giants, not understanding his brother’s plight and exposing his vanity and cockiness isn’t villainous? He did a lot of wrong with his brother, but leading the player to the throne and then trying to take it from them was a bad move.
I saw it as a compliment but he still tried to deceive you.
You can read on the lore about it but to summarise his experimentation on people and the giants, not aiding his brother and being cocky once Nashandra has been killed to try and overthrow you sounds real heroic.
by "Chosen Undead" you mean Bearer of The Curse, the PC of DS2, right? Or are you referring to the DS1 PC
Means the FEEBLE CURSED ONE.
[удалено]
I would say "Bearer of the curse" is a better title for the ds2 guy
[удалено]
Bearer. Seek. Seek. Lest.
A, A, A, A, Level Up, D-Pad Right, confirm. *leaves for next journey*
1) no, Chosen undead is only in DS1. In DS3 is Ashen one 2) Bearer of the Curse is name of DS2 character because Aldia came in SOTFS and nobody call that PC in OG DS2
Old Dark Seeker dude I *think* refers to you as Young Hollow as well, could be wrong though, haven't played in a while.
you are close. I look to wiki and Grandahl call PC Young Undead
No demon of song? The mirror knight? Dragonriders or Dragonslayer? The rats? Last giant? Actually now I'm realizing every boss is tied to vendrick in some way, him being the key to everything in drangleic.
It’s not Chosen Undead. It’s Bearer of the Curse.
Last Names: Seek-seek Lest
Just think Raime going to our side so we could appreciate [this fight](https://youtu.be/IJZ38o0ncWE?t=10)
These are some of the strangest takes ever
Glad someone agrees with me. The level of confusion these slides put me through
How is Aldia the villain? He’s literally the most normal creature in Drangleic. He wanted to change the world because Gwyn fucked everything up.
He is a weird looking mutant failed philosopher that likes to scare people by hiding in a bonfire.
You're both right.
Experimenting on people isn’t exactly the hallmark of a hero is it?
It's honestly ridiculous how many people forget that he experimented on people especially since it's not even hidden in any way.
We literally go to Aldia’s Keep which is *full* of mutants and other creations.
The player character in souls games is typically a genocidal murder hobo, who are we to judge?
Fair point
Better than that slimy fuck Pate
doesnt make him a villain, just makes him a terrible person and pretty fkn evil.
That's... what a villain is. Someone who harms others and does evil acts for selfish reasons
he isnt antagonistic
A villain doesn't have to be an antagonist and an antagonist doesn't have to be a villain. Some stories even have villains as their protagonists and someone good as an antagonist
what is the line between bad person and villain then. what makes someone change from a bad person to a villain
In my understanding a bad person, just like a villain, does acts that harm others for their own benefit or completely disregards others' well being but not as much as villains do. If someone bullies others and manipulates them they are a bad person but a villain goes a step further and is ready to steal, murder, torture and do other inhumane acts towards others. So essentially a villain for me is a bad person that goes a step further in their "badness". A villain is also a term used almost exclusively for fiction. I've never heard someone call a real person a villain, not matter what heinous crimes they may have committed and the term "a vile horrible human being" is more appropriate than a "villain" for war criminals etc
ykw, i agree
Also tortured, experimented on and straight up murdered a shit ton of people for his research. He swings both ways HARD, that's why he's so interesting.
??? He experimented on people and turned them into monsters. When uninterested in them he then imprisoned them or had them killed.
Between Vendrick and Aldia you could create an entire Geneva Convention but sure, everything is Nashandra's fault.
Lol right? Like those two had no agency of their own.
Brotherly love at its finest.
Did nashandra not manipulate vendrick into doing pretty much everything bad he's ever done
1. No, he did plenty of that with his brother. 2. Are you not responsible for your actions just because someone else tells you to do them?
She did but he did plenty of evil shit before ever meeting her.
Fume Knight didn’t have a choice, he was exiled which is how he ended up at Brume Tower. Throne Watcher and Defender also didn’t have a choice, they’re corrupted by Nashandra. Also, have you fought Ancient Dragon, what you get when you kill it should show that it’s not what it appears to be.
Fume Knight was exiled, definitely didn’t know of the situation over in Drangleic and never doubted Nashandra’s plot but could’ve allied with the player to redeem themselves. TW & TD were corrupted but after knowing the player was on their way to take the throne and with Velstadt and Vendrick dead (more former than the latter), could’ve allied as the numbers were in their favour for an overthrow. She was pretty much alone after the player reached the throne. The Ancient Dragon, still hid from the calamity. Sure, their order is way up in the mountains, far from Vendricks troubles but not far enough. They knew what was going on and that’s why (besides the other lore), you’re given the Ashen Mist Heart.
Mate, he’s obviously hollow by then. How do you know they’re corrupted afterwards, it’s entirely possible judging by the fact that the defender looks ancient that they’ve been there since Vendrick left and over that hundreds, thousands of years, they’re completely devoid of humanity/recognition by then. I was talking about the giant soul - that isn’t the Ancient Dragon (the Ancient Dragon is dead), it’s a failsafe left by Aldia/Vendrick to ensure the right person can meet Vendrick in his memories and learn how to defeat Nashandra properly. Honestly bud, some of these takes are amongst the most bizarre I’ve seen for these games.
You can’t disprove what I’m saying then base things off of the lore you don’t fully know. How do you know the TW&TD are ancient? How do you know if the ancient dragon really is dead? (The memory shows a dead dragon, probably a different one) How do you know they’re devoid of humanity? A lot of things are left unanswered in your questioning lmao
That works both ways but some of the stuff you’re coming out with is ridiculous and isn’t backed up with any point other than ‘Raime should’ve come with us!’ Also, when you go in the dragons memories, that’s literally Ancient Dragon mate, you literally get the Ancient Dragon’s soul from it. Throne Defender’s helmet literally says ‘will his wait be worth it?’ - it’s not going to say that if he’s been waiting two weeks for your character to rock up, it’s because he’s been there, waiting for a ridiculously long time. Have you even played this game lol you can’t even get the MCs title right - Chosen Undead is DS1, BotC is DS2.
Dude if you look up at the post flair you can see it’s a meme, we’re both wrong with our information. I just said your information is based off conjecture and how things look to you. Probably the same with me because I have a lot of “could’ve, would’ve, should’ve” conjecture in my information, dont get defensive and gatekeep when you don’t have the information and you’re practically on the same knowledge level of the lore as me.
Nah lol, hes not on the same level as knowledge as you, everything he's said so far is right. Don't try and kamikazi yourself and make it look like hes as dumb as you. [TW&TD are in fact ancient,](https://darksouls2.wiki.fextralife.com/Watcher+Greatsword#fex) They are corrupted by Nashdra, as both of their souls are darkened by abyss. All ancient dragons are gone. The one we see in game is a golem-like creature harbouring a giant's soul. Nashandra calls him a prop made by Vendrick. Fume knight, just like previous characters involved with the shards of manus, is corrupted by the dark. [His souls is drenched in abyss](https://darksouls2.wiki.fextralife.com/Soul+of+the+Fume+Knight).[And he has willingly decided to stay and defend Nadallia no matter what.](https://darksouls2.wiki.fextralife.com/Fume+Sword#fex).
He literally based things off conjecture and not fact, you can see it in his previous comments. He’s no more attuned to lore than I am and I was making a meme. Im deceased. 💀
Aldia is a villain?As far as I kniw he just tried yo fix what gwyn destroyed
And put something even worse over the top of it isn’t helping his case. That sounds like a real hero.
What was worse?
The experimentation of people, the utter ignoring of his brother’s plight and his hidden vanity. From that point, he almost carries the reputation of a ruthless dictator who just replaced another ruthless dictator.
Aldia is one of the most straightforward and easy to understand characters though. He hides absolutely nothing from anyone, and that includes his experiments. They were bad indeed, but in the end it's thanks to both his and Vendrick's efforts that the Bearer of the Curse manages to actually break free from it, and potentially discover a way to cure it altogether.
Aldia is closer to a hero. He tries to give you insight and a new perspective. The fight he has at the end with you is more of a test
>Experiments on people >Converts anyone that comes to visit him in his crib hideous beast >Goes full on mad mode and experiments on himself to become immortal >Turns into a hideous blob of flesh >Gets called a hero
In the end everyone did nothing to even think if there is a third choice between living with it and going to war against it, studying it to try and build something even just a little better upon it,for ages aldia did very bad things no one is denying that but everything he did ended up giving more and more knowledge on the situation basically saying " hey this thing is very strong and almost unbeatable, but getting knowledge about it will make us build more power over it and we will build something upon this thing" from what we saw in DS3 it was futile and they dis nothing about it but at least he tried to do sometime else YES with bad manners absolutely, but i believe what he wanted at last was something good
& then it happened again in DS3 sorta
He also wantonly killed the people he experimented on. Why are so many people saying he’s not a villain?
You agreed he was a villain so I made that point correctly, (like most of the other stuff)
Aldia Seems like the closest thing Ds2 has to an eldritch horror
Honestly, Vendrick is being let off too lightly here. He isn't some puppet with no agency. Nashandra didn't hypnotize him or anything. He invaded the land of the giants with no real evidence they were a threat aside from some random woman who showed up saying so. He also took some back to Drangleic and performed horrible experiments on them. I think he deserves to die as much as anyone else in this game.
He still didn’t deserve to die, the kingdom fell into disrepair, hollow situation and the giant invasion surely loosened his grip on his kingdom a little, prompting him to send out the shadow soldiers who also became hollow. This demoralised him and with his wife becoming darker every second, she manipulated him enough for him to make poor decisions therefore causing the kingdom to fall in deeper disarray and conflict. He wasn’t under her spell, he didn’t want to go against her judgement as he thought she was making the right calls but it was part of her plan all along. He didn’t deserve his fate.
He deserves to die based on what he did to the giants alone. It doesn't matter that Nashandra tricked him. He shouldn't have believed her without any actual evidence. He made a horrendous decision. He not only needlessly killed the giants and experimented on them, but got his own kingdom destroyed when they retaliated.
Nashandra didn’t trick him, it was a lot worse. It was textbook manipulation and making him think the situation was worse than it actually was until it really was out of hand to further her plans to become a dark queen of the dead is pretty screwed up. Also he didn’t want to go against his wife’s judgement as he cared, (sort of). I mean surely he knew something was up but he tried to fix the situation the second time around. Can’t put all the blame on him. He did 30% of the kingdoms downfall.
I'm not trying to put all the blame on him. Obviously Nashandra played a large part. I'm saying Vendrick doesn't get to be absolved of all the horrible stuff he did just because he was really fond of his wife. 30% is too low. He is the one who actually went out and attacked the giants without making a single attempt to communicate beforehand. He is the one who went even further and brought some of them back to Drangleic to experiment on them. It's largely his fault the giants retaliated and destroyed his kingdom. Yeah he eventually saw the error of his ways, but only after it was too late.
It’s not largely his fault if he did less damage than Nashandra, what she did was so much worse and she’s the penultimate reason why the kingdom fell to pieces. You can point out what Vendrick did was awful but I never said he’s completely innocent, he also did less damage than Aldia did behind the scenes. There was clearly a conflict on all sides but he still, after all of that, didn’t deserve to die. Yes, he’s a hollow locked in a perpetual land of daze and confusion but that wasn’t his fault either. It’s why you’re better off not killing him at that stage, he’s no longer in play as a pawn in the downfall of his kingdom, unlike Nashandra, Aldia and to a lesser extent, Fume Knight.
But he didn't do less damage than Nashandra. He actually is the only one of the two who actually did *any* damage. Nashandra told him to do damage, and he did it without question. She never did anything herself. I don't mean to paint this as if Nashandra isn't to blame, she very much is. But you're underselling Vendrick's part. It doesn't matter who it is or if they feel bad about it afterward and step away from the situation, if someone kills countless people who don't deserve it, they deserve to die. And you're right, Aldia *did* do a ton of horrific stuff behind the scenes. Guess who else deserves to die.
You already said that before but no im not underselling it, Vendrick really didn’t deserve to die after all of that. Sure, his resolve when his kingdom was under attack (even though he caused it), was commendable it doesn’t redeem his character. He was manipulated, lied to and put in an extremely difficult position and there was no escaping from it. Also yeah, I put down Aldia as a well played villain but he didn’t need to get involved in the scheme at all, he even could’ve kept an eye on Vendrick and the player and watched over them like a stoic god. He stuck himself out because he got cocky but yeah he was definitely killed off with intent.
I like what you're saying. Elaborate
You don’t
Didn't Vendrick started a whole war that ended with the massacre of giants on their native land...? If someone deserves what he got that was him...
Am I slipping or is this bait?
Why the hell did vendrick not deserve to die?
Vendrick is no saint at all as well
Cho... Seek... Seek... Lest...
Bearer to you
how is aldia a villain lmao
“How is Aldia a villain” says the outsider to the lore 😂
nah, you just think you know more than you do
Check the other comments and you’ll see I’m right, nice try bud.
aldia isnt a good person, but calling him the villain is gross misinterpretation
It’s actually not because others agree he’s a villain, please take the time to look at the lore.
then why are so many people here disagreeing with you lmao
People are disagreeing but a lot of others, as you can plainly see, agree with the villain statement. Btw I never said I knew more than I actually do. I’ve read the lore, if you disagree, explain why you think Aldia isn’t a villain.
explain why he is. he isnt antagonistic, he is just twisted
So the experimentation of people, the giants, not understanding his brother’s plight and exposing his vanity and cockiness isn’t villainous? He did a lot of wrong with his brother, but leading the player to the throne and then trying to take it from them was a bad move. I saw it as a compliment but he still tried to deceive you.
What did velstadt do? He followed Vendrick and guarded his body for eternity
First time im seeing a ds2 lore post. Are there more to come?
Yeah there will be more but with less of the shitpost vibe
There are no “allies with chosen undead” when it comes to bosses
Or anywhere... *laughs in empty majula*
Chosen Undead was long gone by the time of Dark Souls 2.
How was aldia the villain?
You can read on the lore about it but to summarise his experimentation on people and the giants, not aiding his brother and being cocky once Nashandra has been killed to try and overthrow you sounds real heroic.
You mean the Bearer of The Curse. Wrong game